Please have a trade that’s upcoming for pau/patty
That er never made 1 all star team and only played good vs Phoenix and when Pau relegated him to a 3rd option. That was a ty trade by the Lakers for a player of Shaq's ilk.You basically got Lamar Odom for Shaq. That was a very one sided deal that was laughed at the time.
I don't think the timing is su ious at all, the Spurs caved, but at least weren't so cowardly that they gave him go the Lakers. Spurs had the leverage of the USA camp, didn't they still need to give a letter of clearance? Kawhi would have needed to pass a physical. I just think they lost their stomach and their will to do the dirty work. They're just too nice.
And I agree with the posters who claim they got hosed and other posters are rationalizing.
Masai, if Kawhi shows up for even a year, destroyed the Spurs on the court with the best player and off by getting off $30 million in salary if it doesn't work out.
Raptors are the real favorites in the East with a top 3 player, GREAT WING DEFENSE with Kawhi, OG, and Green, good point guard play from their 3 guys, a starting center who was actually good in the playoffs unlike Poeltl, and utility bigs like Siakam and Ibaka and useful players like Miles and Powell. Hats off to Masai, he crushed it. Top 20 protected pick? Easy deal, so easy.
they got caron butler too who became a good player for several years. but sent his ass packing for kwameThat er never made 1 all star team and only played good vs Phoenix and when Pau relegated him to a 3rd option. That was a ty trade by the Lakers for a player of Shaq's ilk.
Thanks Timvp!
I've heard mills has positive value from several people so packaging him with a pick or two should be attractive to someone our there. I have no idea who we should target right now but, they better be proficient from 3.
No - those dudes suck and I’m not high on Ingram like others. I think SA still could have been a playoff team with a chance at a younger person developing but they would be worse now with them vs DeRozan IMO.I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen.
You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie
I think LA screwed the pooch here. They alienated Kawhi and now Ingram/Kuz have to really bust out into stars or they basically run the risk of doing nothing with Lebron. They may get Kawhi or another star, but if the young guys aren’t stars in the next 1-2 years, then it’s not enough and their “upside” trade value goes way down.
I'm flat out surprised Maginka held onto the kids. They hardly ever grow from within.
That being said, if things aren't quite clicking by February it would be incompetent for them not to make a few phone calls tbh.
-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.
-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused at ude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.
-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts
-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.
-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.
-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.
-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).
-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.
-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.
(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)
-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.
-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.
-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.
-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?
-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.
-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.
-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.
-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.
-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.
-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.
-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.
Last east time I gave a damn about reading one of your rambling post it was about how much David West was going to improve the Spurs spacing. I’m gonna go ahead and empty the bank account that spacing won’t be an issue now that you think it will be. Spurs gonna average 109 ppg next season.
The Spurs didn't get a raw deal. The guy they had didn't really want to play for them and probably wasn't going to so it's not like they had a superstar who was willing to put in the time and effort to get San Antonio over the hump. You got to remember what they had was different for them than it is for whoever these guys going to most likely.
I would rather have that combo but, pop wouldn't. DD is that better player the next couple years and that's probably as far into the future as he is looking.I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen.
You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie
TOR absolutely crushed this trade. It was a homerun even if Kawhi never sets foot in TOR. Spurs definitely caved and I am truly shocked they couldn’t get a better pick and/or OG. I dont blame them, but I am still shocked.
Ingram is the one that needs to break out and be a "star".
Kyle just beeds to be a reliable shooter and scorer off the bench.
We did not alienate Kawhi yall FO did.
Hence why you accepted DD and his crappy contract for him.
The Spurs had a lot of better options if they wanted them (and we know because some have even been reported). The problem is that they overrated DeRozan's value.
He did average 5.2 assists last year, gets to the line.
The defense is concerning, we'll see. Not excited. However as DPG21920 said it doesn't look good in a bubble but the Spurs where screwed.
Knowing the Spurs I'm sure they didn't take DeMar just because he was an all star but actually thought about how they where going to use him.
No, LA did. Just like PG. Im calling it now: Unless LA trades for Kawhi this season, Kawhi will NOT be a Laker.
Do you think spurs will go for Kembla and Batum now? Probably be hard to match salaries. Both spurs picks will be in the 20s next season.
Kiwi nothing like "Playoff P"
Kiwi from Killa Cali, yet yall deported him to the North Pole. You think he staying there?
Seriously toronto would be drunk not to take that offer.if this is the best spurs could do it shows you the other offers really were
Timvp analysis is why I came back to ST.
GOOD STUFF
-i have a real issue with demar. one of my least favorite players in the league. i think he'll be better with the spurs though, i think they'll be able to help him with his game.
-the dude needs mental toughness.
Your "calling it now" takes lately have been about as reliable and consistent as Trump's admission that Russia meddles in US elections.
IF he does not, He does not.
I'll be honest this fiasco along with his injury has given me pause that Kawhi is the answer, especially after seeing how classy Pop was in his pressor.
I believe in Ingram way more than you do obviously and even if he flames out we have Lebron and cap flexibilty.
I'm not sweating the oh might fall in love with toronto angle or he may choose the clippers over us.
He does either of those things he is not the star we need anyways.
Hart upped his value that was the only thing that matter in SL and Svi and Wagner showed flashes.
Kuzma made all rookie first team.
Lonzo gets healthy we have plenty of assets to make a move for another star.
KL is just one option.
Yeah, OG on top of this trade would have made it much easier to swallow. Without him, it feels light.
But, yeah, with the Lakers refusing to give up anything, the Clippers having nothing, and only Masai having the testicular for ude to put actual assets on the table, the Spurs didn't have much choice other than to take this deal or let it get extremely messy.
Personally, I would have voted for messy but there's a lot more to the picture than people outside of Pop, RC and Uncle know about.
For the Spurs to be elite, they need Murray to take a huge step. In addition to that, they probably need White to turn into a valuable reserve. If Ginobili retires, then they definitely need White to produce.
So if Kawhi couldn't pass a physical for the USA camp, his value would have gone down to nothing. If Kawhi fails a physical or goes out there hobbling, the Raptors at the very least take Poeltl and the pick out of the trade.
Maybe the Spurs caved. Maybe Kawhi is broken. It's too early to tell at this point. The timing of the trade has me doubting Kawhi's health (or at least the Spurs' belief in his health) but I could be wrong.
That wasn't offered.I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen.
You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie
Lakers got Bron/Rondo/Mcgee and Lance but lost Randle and Brook Lopez.
OKC chose staying way over the cap for a team led by Russ/PG and Melo (for now) ...they couls have paid almost the same for a team with KD/Harden and Russ
Spurs turned Kawhi, Danny Green, Kyle Anderson and Enrique in to $83 million of DD, Poetl, a protected 1st, Belli and dante Cuningham
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