I get it. Im not complaining. I’m commenting on the deal and I’m fine with how SA did all things considered. I’m saying TOR killed it. It’s ok as a Spurs fan to say TOR did really damn well all things considered even if SA did ok too.
Bad moves. Kawhi's value is pretty low because no one has seen him play in a year. The smart move would have been to bring him back to at least bring up his trade value. Also winning cures all so you never know. Pop was going to coach him on USA basketball anyway. This is a classic control move by Pop. He doesn't like not being in control of the situation.
Sad day. Derozan is fine. Poetl is a fringe rotation guy.
48-50 Raptor wins is the sweet spot for maximizing value of the pick.
Kids better grow up quick.
Or maybe PATFO guesses he’s not going to look the same and it would have torpedoed value even more.
Fringe rotation guy? He’s at worst a solid backup center for years to come based on what’s he’s done in two seasons. And his ceiling is higher than that.
They'd be guessing alright. If you're talking about Peoti, most teams have gone away from the traditional Centers and gone with hyprid and stretch 5's for a reason. He'll be virtually useless against a team like the Warriors. The league continues to zig and the Spurs continue to zag.
After having some time to process this is where I’m landing now. Wish we could have gotten OG, but understand why it wasn’t in the cards.
The way the NBA is going, your backup center is at the end of your rotation. But I admit I’m likely underrating both players we got back because I’m bummed over the trade in general. I’ll sell myself by tomorrow.
There’s one stat that does make me wonder what Kawhi’s future really is in the NBA:
Regular Season
2011-12: 64 games played, 24 minutes played
2012-13: 58 GP, 31 MP
2013-14: 66/29
2014-15: 64/31
2015-16: 72/33
2016-17: 74/34
2017-18: 9/23
Yeah be interesting how many minutes he plays
The goods, absolutely illuminating.-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.
-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused at ude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.
-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts) On one hand, the ride was damn fun while it lasted. On the other hand, it’s difficult to forgive Nephew for how things ended. I’m sure the Spurs deserve some blame but to sabotage your trade value by demanding a trade to the archrival Los Angeles Lakers … I mean, I can’t imagine a more villainous ending to what appeared even a year ago to be a perfect marriage between superstar and franchise.
-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.
-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.
-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.
-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).
-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.
-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.
(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)
-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.
-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.
-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.
-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?
-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.
-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.
-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.
-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.
-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.
-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.
-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.
Thank you so much good Sir, you relieved my anxiety, hehe
Fragile boy....cannot even make a 1 80 season.....
Wilt, Russell and Duncan say HI lol
We'll get a reasonable idea of what kobe would have looked like in the spurs system
Lakers fans are posting here again, bummer.
I hope he stays with Toronto & this along with the PG saga kills any argument that teams have 'no leverage' in trades where players want out going forward. So many teams could've had him, but were scared off that he was a rental. He's a superstar - there's 4 in the NBA & he's the only one who, health permitting, is still getting better. He'll probably be the best player in the league this season or next & yet no one was willing to take that risk for what could possibly be a ridiculous reward.
which is the smart thing to do no? the way kawhi is acting there's a higher probability of him going AWOL than him turning up for games... its not fair for the rest of the team to have to go through this storm for another season just to appease the whiny kid... And winning cures all? last i remember spurs were competing real hard and the season b4 we were in the conference finals against the warriors.... and the team qualified for playoffs without his contribution last season...
Let's face reality... it is clear that kawhi & uncle has more issues with Spurs, the city itself and FO that no amount of money or victories will make him want to stay with the team.
If RC and Pop let the deal go down they wanted him gone. They could have kept him and made him play and hope that things would come around. They definitely gave up on that thought. Glad they got an All-Star to play with LMA. Surround them with some 3 pt shooters and maybe we'll score some points. We will need to!
Funny thing is Pop says kawhi did his thing and was good teammate etc. So basically he says everything was fine but Leonard just wanted to be traded and they did trade him and all sides benefits from it.
Damn how come this trade is equal from basketball standpoint?
Poor Green, dragged down and ultimately traded due to this bull Kawhi saga. He always bled the black and silver. Front office was looking for an excuse to can him since he has been on a steady decline for a few years now, but still, crazy to think that Manu would still be a Spur and Green, Kawhi, Parker, and Duncan are not. He is the lone ranger.
Kawhi. I hope that autistic re gets ing quad cancer and needs an amputation.
Have you even been outside the US since entering it?
This. After sitting on it for 24hrs still think it's not a good or fair trade but Kawhi made that impossible. Pop though drained at the pressor seemed defiant and Spur fan is right they did win 47 last year.
Biggest concern is defense on the wing. Spurs will play good team defense but no matter how you spin it Spurs took a big step back on that end talent wise even if Green had slipped some and Kawhi was injured.
But I think Pop coaches his ass off and you guys will be strong in regular season. I just think come playoffs a perimeter d of Belli, DD etc won't be enough.
They have LeBron and we have DeRozan. We'll be lucky if we can play him on 4th quarters
Why would anyone give a about the matchup with Golden State? What, did you think the Spurs were going to win the Leonard trade and all of a sudden become le contenders?
It would have been illegal as for their doctor to share Leonard's medical information with the Sixers, so I'm not sure he would have shared that info.
Though the return was poor
SPURS decided some return even a overpaid DD was better than the let him sit and rot and leave for NADA approach...
What sucks is if Leonard stayed they would have probably gotten DeRozan for Gasol + Green. When it leaked that Pop was trying to sell Leonard on staying at that meeting in San Diego a few weeks ago with promises of another allstar they had a trade lined up for we all assumed it was Kemba, but it was probably DeMar.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
