Spurs Need to Go All-In

[DPG21920]

Again, going all-in is about mindset, not about a particular player. It just means you make moves with the next 2 years in mind and not beyond.

Think of it this way: SA was pitching Kawhi that they could bring in more win-now help. They only swapped Kawhi for another win-now type player in DeRozan so wouldn’t the pitch to DeRozan/LMA be the same for Kawhi/LMA? It should be.

[SAGirl]

Simmons had a podcast yesterday talking about the trade. They all believe the Spurs won this by getting DD. But more importantly, it seems they have at least some inside info to the trade talks surrounding Kawhi.

According to the pod, the celts were not interested in anything more than a sign and trade involving Marcus Smarts, Morris and possibly one of their first round picks. They also echoed what everyone else has reported that Philly and LA were not offering any of their young talent.

Anyway, it just solidifies the fact that no one was really offering anything for Kawhi. The spurs could have tried to ride this out and make him play, but it seems clear that they felt it wasn’t worth possibly fracturing the team more to see if you can get more value in 6 months.

The more I think about it, I’m happy with the trade. I would have loved getting OG in the trade, but DD should help the Spurs stay compe ive and they will still have some cap flexibility in the coming years to build around DD and LMA.If Murray takes a leap and Walker turns into something, this could be a fun team.

That offer from the Celtics is horrible. and the rumors the Celtics and Philly were stingy were around so it's nothing new.

I can't hate on the trade. I didn't want Kawhi to get dealt to begin with but he clearly didn't want to play for the Spurs anymore. There wasn't any coming out ahead when you lose a top player unless his health issues are real and his best basketball is already behind him, something I don't know, or have a way of guessing.

I am actually very hopeful in DJ/White/Walker though it takes time for them to reach their best basketball.

Not sure on the mix with Derozan but at least it will be an interesting team, more offensively skilled than last season and with some interesting unknowns. It won't be as hopeless (until the playoffs and Demar chokes I guess)... Perhaps there are surprised from any of the new players of even Poltl, due to player development.

[sasaint]

But we can't. I don't know who started these Butler rumors, but don't have any chance to get him and that spacing would be likely the worst in the whole NBA.

Agreed. The only (barely) conceivable way to get Butler (who I have always wanted on the Spurs) is to flip Derozan. I can't see that happening.

[21209]

So are the Spurs for the foreseeable future.

So are all of the other teams in the league as long as Golden State keeps their current roster intact.

[mo7888]

Again, going all-in is about mindset, not about a particular player. It just means you make moves with the next 2 years in mind and not beyond.

Think of it this way: SA was pitching Kawhi that they could bring in more win-now help. They only swapped Kawhi for another win-now type player in DeRozan so wouldn’t the pitch to DeRozan/LMA be the same for Kawhi/LMA? It should be.

This

[raybies]

Again, going all-in is about mindset, not about a particular player. It just means you make moves with the next 2 years in mind and not beyond.

Think of it this way: SA was pitching Kawhi that they could bring in more win-now help. They only swapped Kawhi for another win-now type player in DeRozan so wouldn’t the pitch to DeRozan/LMA be the same for Kawhi/LMA? It should be.

Pop just said in his presser yesterday that the focus has never been short term that it's a combination of both... don't lose any sleep over this my friend. Name a win now move the Spurs have made in the last 20 years that involved trading young players with upside for established players.

But yes I understand the heart of the matter here, it's just you don't know what you have to shoot for a win now. Now if you lose in the WCF and you think you are one move away from winning it all then I see it but even then PATFO's philosophy has been to bring it back and let them see if they can do it. It's just not our way to make an absolution that this is now or never. PATFO's goal is continued excellence not selling the barn for a two year window. I'm really excited to watch the youth grow. This was what it was like when we had Timmy. You hoped one of the youth would turn out to take us to another level and it happened with two not just one. We build. We are a small town team. We develop. That's how we do things. Keep the faith bruh. Murray or White cold be special. Lonny could be special. They already are shooting for the fences with these picks, going for high upside. They haven't made a role player pick in the first in the last three years. You draft with the mindset of going all in because it's all in your control. You trade and you risk your future and you risk your "culture" (lol). Adding big names to the program with big responsibilities is tough for this program because they know what it's like in different situation... (parable of the two masters..) We almost lost LMA but he's a Spur now. Took him 3 years to buy in. We alright man. I'm a fan of basketball and people so forgive me for saying the following but it's not championship or bust for me. Pop said as much as well. Finding contentment for rooting for your team and experiencing the growth and ups and downs which ulitmately leads to championship is important too. It's the reality we enjoy that takes our mind off life. Enjoy the ride. Sorry for the rant. This entire post isn't just aimed at what you said by the way but to the generalities of this forum...

[Mugen]

They are high on Murray and he's the only one capable of bringing back a player of value.

I guess you could attach a couple of first round picks to get rid of Patty/Pau to bring back a good-ish player on a worse contract. Maybe you go Patty + 1st for Covington but not sure if Philly would go for it.

Unfortunately, I think they stand pat and head into next season with the group they have. They'll probably add a Keith Bogans type player to fill the huge gaping hole at SF or call Blossomgame up to the big leagues. Both sound like horrible options but oh well.

Blame should be solely on Kawhi for putting them in this mess. But the trade pretty much signaled "We're in a terrible situation. Let's just try to get 50 games for the next 2 years so Pop doesn't have to coach a rebuild and the local fans actually show up." I doubt they have the cajones to actually go "all in." They're shook and understandably so.

[Spurs da champs]

What you're saying would be much more possible if Spurs took deal with Clippers on draft night tbh.

[Fusternino]

Ultimately, Spurs are improved from just a month ago - with a more clearcut agenda in terms of culture and focus on winning (I hope). Locker room should be more stable, in all regards. Just by that, the product on the floor should be improved.

I think the front office was also concerned about the type of locker room culture guys like Murray/White/Walker were going to develop in with the insidiousness of Kawhi's malcontentedness and unprofessionalism - even more so if the rumours of J.Simmons/Dedmon and Green forming a clique with him are true. They've cleared that out and brought in a solid locker room presence in Derozan, while adding/retaining stable vets like Belinelli/Gay/Cunningham/Gasol/Mills. Wildcard is LMA, but even his moodiness is more of a quirk than a cancer like Kawhi's.

Long term direction is still under question, but in 2020 or 2021 cap space (depending on what they do) is there. They can even carve out close to $30M next summer with a few easy moves if they're confident in a Murray/Derozan/LMA core.

Is that why (Green being part of this "clique") Spurs were content to ship off Green or was it entirely desperation to get the trade done?

[Mugen]

Nobody's touching the Warriors anyways. The Lakers are doing the same thing. They got a big fish in LeBron and they've sold their re ed fanbase that the overrated young guys + LeBron is enough to contend. Ticket prices are up and they're somewhat relevant again so life is good. Maybe they luck into another big FA next summer and actually contend but they're fine if not.

If you don't have the luck to get a championship squad together, the next best thing is getting the locals to care about you, show up to games, spend money on churros/hotdog...and be good from a business side perspective. Even more important for a small market team like the Spurs.

[Hoops Czar]

So are all of the other teams in the league as long as Golden State keeps their current roster intact.

No, you don't understand. They're done. They sold their future for a moody one dimensional offensive minded player so they can buy a piece of mediocrity for the next three years before going into a long rebuilding process that could take a decade or more to get back into contention. How long can it take to rebuild a franchise from ground zero? Ask the Phoenix Suns or Sacramento Kings. They're still at it.

Good luck attracting max free agents in free agency with a "do the minimum" front office and the lack of young controllable assets\building blocks required to get them here. They have no building blocks for the future and they don't have much financial flexibility or future cap space to significantly improve the roster. The Kawhi trade was basically the death penalty for the franchise. To call the PATFO overrated would be doing them an injustice. They're flat out awful, bottom 10 in the NBA, hiding behind Tim Duncan's greatest for 19 years.

Not only did this clown shoes of a FO give Kawhi away in a salary dump, they threw in Danny Green and 5M for FREE! The Holts should never have put their faith in a GM that graduated from Friends Univeristy.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

They aren't trying to contend, they're trying to be a treadmill team in basketball purgatory so Pop doesn't have to go out on a bottom-feeder. They'll try to keep relevant to keep the cash flow going while Pop does his farewell tour regardless of how it hurts the team.

BOOM

Spot on

[barbacoataco]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being compe ive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

[MannyIsGod]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being compe ive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

Spurs fans just don't get how much rebuilding sucks.

[Hoops Czar]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being compe ive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

Go ahead and support him. Just don't have lofty expectation. He's basically an outcast.

[BSfromTX]

Pop won't mortgage the future for now. He wants to maintain a few good center pieces and build around that (on the go so to speak). I for one wouldn't mind scrapping the whole thing and stock piling young talent and picks and let them get their feet wet, but that is not the direction Pop is going. To "go all in" at this point is not something that is a must. We have until the trade deadline to make moves and see what we have in White, Walker, Murray, and Jakob. Those four could prove to be better than anticipated and is worth holding to see and/or build value for future moves.

I'm not sure what moves we could make this year that would put us past a healthy GSW or Boston or Philly. Those three teams will be deadly next year, and not be beatable unless there are significant injuries.

At this point I think we should be patient, play the young guns and enjoy watching them play and get good experience. Perhaps a few injuries change the fate of this year?

I don't want to see us do anything out of desperation, and that usually not PATFO's MO

[Hoops Czar]

Pop won't mortgage the future for now. He wants to maintain a few good center pieces and build around that (on the go so to speak). I for one wouldn't mind scrapping the whole thing and stock piling young talent and picks and let them get their feet wet, but that is not the direction Pop is going. To "go all in" at this point is not something that is a must. We have until the trade deadline to make moves and see what we have in White, Walker, Murray, and Jakob. Those four could prove to be better than anticipated and is worth holding to see and/or build value for future moves.

I'm not sure what moves we could make this year that would put us past a healthy GSW or Boston or Philly. Those three teams will be deadly next year, and not be beatable unless there are significant injuries.

At this point I think we should be patient, play the young guns and enjoy watching them play and get good experience. Perhaps a few injuries change the fate of this year?

I don't want to see us do anything out of desperation, and that usually not PATFO's MO

Too late.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being compe ive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

not to mention only missing the playoffs once out of the last 29 seasons and four times in the 45 seasons the team has been in SA. Spurs fans are some spoiled MFers.

[raybies]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being compe ive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

Quality post man... post more!

[Fusternino]

Still waiting to hear about Kawhi and his relationship with Dedmon/Simmons . . .

[Dre_7]

September 1st!

[TD 21]

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

Nah, unless Butler tells them before the trade deadline that he's not re-signing, I think they'll play it out with him and hope that the money wins out in the end.

Either way, DeRozan would literally be the worst possible fit with Wiggins, whose a poor man's version. They'd be better off swapping Butler for more of a 3 and D type, like Middleton (Butler wouldn't be a good fit with Antetokounmpo, but they might do it just for the pure talent upgrade, especially if they think they might lose Middleton anyway).

[Gordonicci]

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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=ydyca4hq

Throw them as many picks as needed to make it happen. IMO, FWIW,YMMV, NAIAS, SYLPRFD.
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[T Park]

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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=ydyca4hq

Throw them as many picks as needed to make it happen. IMO, FWIW,YMMV, NAIAS, SYLPRFD.
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I like this but think you don’t trade a guy who you just signed. Leave Gibson out as well

[Gordonicci]

I like this but think you don’t trade a guy who you just signed. Leave Gibson out as well

Yar. I like it so much I had to surround it with blue font......LMAO.

Also, Belli is included strictly because his salary makes it work and we would have to give them something of value (other than DJ) in order to dump Pau.

Still, it's a pipe dream. No way they accept that bull even if Jimmy becomes a cancer this season.

Edit: Patty DJ and Bertans (sending picks to them as well) for Jimmy straight up works salary wise. I'd rather dump Pau but I doubt they bite on that. Patty still has more perceived value around the league.