Spurs Need to Go All-In

[sasaint]

Pau Gasol to Detriot for Stanley Johnson & Jon Leuer.

Waive Brandon Paul.

Why would Detroit do that?

[Seventyniner]

Who gives a what Wall thinks? He lost the ability to complain when he signed that DPE.

We just witnessed how a player can try and torch a franchise even while under contract. Wall isn't nearly as good as He Who Shall Not Be Named Part Two, but he can still poison a locker room.

[Ice009]

If you mean Beal, yes. Porter and his inflated deal? I think they’re happy to move that one if they can.

I remember reading somewhere or maybe saw a video where someone said the difference between Otto Porter and Kawhi was that Kawhi was drafted by the Spurs. If that is the case, then I will take Otto right away if Washington wants to trade him.

[sasaint]

We just witnessed how a player can try and torch a franchise even while under contract. Wall isn't nearly as good as He Who Shall Not Be Named Part Two, but he can still poison a locker room.

But can we just shorten it to Part 2? I kind of like the double entendres of "Number 2", though.

[mo7888]

I just don't really think the SF route's the way to go. There's better potential value in guards right now, especially those who can change the complexion of the offense. The SF market is inflated because there's really no middle class. The great ones are superstars at the absolute top of the league, and then the next their is immediately overpaid role-player. What makes it worse is that even though role-players like Cov, Ingles and Mids are too valuable for the Spurs to get. They almost have to hope they can "make" their own role-playing defensive forward, like those other teams did. Blossomgame is their best in-house bet there. Putney is another candidate with 3.5 combined blocks and steals in 29 minutes in the d-league last season. Both are just so damned old though (with Putz being 28).

Here is the list of d-leaguers who averaged more than 1 block and more than 1 steal last season:

http://stats.gleague.nba.com/leaders...E*1%7CBLK*GE*1

The main trait there is that all of those guys are awful shooters. In order to get a passable shooter, you have to lower the numbers down to 1.4/1.4 per 48. That brings in Jarrod Uthoff, who honestly doesn't seem that bad. Dude is 6-10 with a 6-11.5 wingspan, and he can put it on the floor to attack closeouts. He averaged 17/8/3 in 33 minutes with a combined block and steal. His shooting left a lot to be desired, however. Would almost certainly benefit from having a smaller role on a better ballclub. I think he has the game to be adequate on that end.



Kamari Murphy is another player of interest. He seemed to have been playing center last year, but he showed decent handles and agility, so he could probably move down at least one position in the pros. I liked what I saw of him in terms of mobility on D and his ability to get open on O. However, he can't shoot and doesn't try to, and that probably is what's stopping him from being anything but a center more than his physical tools. I'd still have him in camp:



Derek Willis is that last guy I'll talk about in this post. Dude has been playing the four in the d-league, and I'm not sure he has the athleticism to play down more than that. But he seems like a dynamic shooter who would benefit from getting better looks. Him being able to shoot on the move is really what sells him to me. He averaged 12 and 7 last season with an assist, block and steal in 28 minutes a game.



For various reasons, I like all these players, in addition to Blossomgame and Putney. If I were the Spurs, I'd bring in four of this type of player into camp to compete for the final spot, with the runner-up getting a two-way. , if I could swing it, I'd try to get a second player like that on the big roster. Though with Cunningham, maybe there isn't a need for that, nor is there an easy way to get a second open spot. Still, the name of the game needs to be compe ion, just like they did with backup PG before Patty won it way back when and starting two-guard before Danny seized it. I just don't think they're going to be able to acquire a guy who can come in and start without giving up more than they should. The better value is definitely in guards, whether it's an All-Star like Kemba or a decent-if-streaky starter like Fournier. Considering need for shooting and Murray's and DeRozan's lack of that, they'll need to prioritize having two shooters at the second wing and second forward spots. Much easier to get that from a guard than a defensive forward.

I'd definitely bring in uthoff to compete for a spot. I think he has real upside as a role player. I don't watch much g-league but I did watch him in summer league. He's a little light but has some skill. I like the way you are thinking there.

[mo7888]

Honest question:
Would Walker really be an overpay for a player like Prince? I mean, I know it's that time of year when everyone is excited about our newest draft pick but what are you guys seeing in him? He's athletic certainly. Has all the tools ect. I just didn;t see anything in his summer league minutes to make me think "All Star."

Walker would be a huge overpay. He has a higher upside and a better contract.

[KDKSpurs24]

Honest question:
Would Walker really be an overpay for a player like Prince? I mean, I know it's that time of year when everyone is excited about our newest draft pick but what are you guys seeing in him? He's athletic certainly. Has all the tools ect. I just didn;t see anything in his summer league minutes to make me think "All Star."

Yes. I really want Prince and he is better now and would be a great fit. But people who were talking about getting picks instead of staying compe ive doesnt seem to realize that we have lucked up and have Walker who I think has an extremely high upside. He also seems to have the work ethic to become a great player in this league because he certainly has all of the tools. That’s the thing, he hasn’t even had outstanding numbers in summer league but he completely passes the eye test for me. Under the Spurs development team he will put everything together.

[Seventyniner]

But can we just shorten it to Part 2? I kind of like the double entendres of "Number 2", though.

Yes, let us call him "Number 2" from now on. So many extra meanings there.

[Ice009]

I'm not giving up Lonnie Walker or Murray at this point at all. I want to see what these guys can do and give them a real chance to reach their potential.

[exstatic]

His upside is fine considering he was a late first rounder and I like him well enough. But people are thinking Russell Westbrook when they should probably be thinking better Shuan Livingston. I'd easily ship his ass out with a 1st rounder if it meant getting a guy like Kemba.

I think White and Walker have much more upside than Dejounte tbh but I'm probably in the minority in that camp.

Walker, yes, White, No. Now, keep in mind that we are talking about upside, not current status. White is actually a more complete player now, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is. That's the rub in drafting a Senior: There usually isn't much ceiling left.

[SpursDynasty85]

Walker, yes, White, No. Now, keep in mind that we are talking about upside, not current status. White is actually a more complete player now, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is. That's the rub in drafting a Senior: There usually isn't much ceiling left.

Agree. White was also like a 5 year senior because he transferred from a Div 2 school. Derrick White is ready to go and looks like a taller and slightly slower version of Patty Mills. Hope he gets consistent minutes this season.

[sasaint]

Walker, yes, White, No. Now, keep in mind that we are talking about upside, not current status. White is actually a more complete player now, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is. That's the rub in drafting a Senior: There usually isn't much ceiling left.

As long as White wears a Spurs uniform I don’t think we will ever know. Pop seems much more invested in DJ than White. He is determined to force DJ into the PG role for which he seems pretty ill-suited at this point. Upside? Enormous for a guy who is a poor PG at this juncture. Realistic Upside? Not so much.

White is apparently destined to spend his time as DJ’s backup or being adapted to a SG when he has all the tools to become a very good PG. his upside isn’t much higher, but he already seems like a better PG than DJ. And his realistic ceiling as a PG seems higher than DJ’s.

[exstatic]

I would not be against going for Irving but what we offer?
Murray, Mills and late 1st rounders? Im down but I don’t see it

No. Not after the revelation of how close his Pops is to Uncle Dennis, and that they are similar in temperment.

[exstatic]

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

Can't do that. A player in a multi-player trade CAN be flipped, but it MUST be a one for one trade, no other players involved, and the salaries do not work. Adding other player(s) makes the teams wait until December.

[CitizenDwayne]

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf is looking pretty good in the Big 3. You know what to do, Pop

[Chinook]

Can't do that. A player in a multi-player trade CAN be flipped, but it MUST be a one for one trade, no other players involved, and the salaries do not work. Adding other player(s) makes the teams wait until December.

It doesn't have to be one-for-one. The Spurs just can't add salary to DeRozan to make it work.

[exstatic]

They are high on Murray and he's the only one capable of bringing back a player of value.

I guess you could attach a couple of first round picks to get rid of Patty/Pau to bring back a good-ish player on a worse contract. Maybe you go Patty + 1st for Covington but not sure if Philly would go for it.

Unfortunately, I think they stand pat and head into next season with the group they have. They'll probably add a Keith Bogans type player to fill the huge gaping hole at SF or call Blossomgame up to the big leagues. Both sound like horrible options but oh well.

Blame should be solely on Kawhi for putting them in this mess. But the trade pretty much signaled "We're in a terrible situation. Let's just try to get 50 games for the next 2 years so Pop doesn't have to coach a rebuild and the local fans actually show up." I doubt they have the cajones to actually go "all in." They're shook and understandably so.

I was thinking that same thing. Doesn't Philly still need some shooting? We SAF could use a 3 and D wing.

[exstatic]

What you're saying would be much more possible if Spurs took deal with Clippers on draft night tbh.

People need to stop pretending that it was actually both lottery picks, because it wasn't.

Oh, and Harris just turned down 4/$80M, so...

[KDKSpurs24]

I was thinking that same thing. Doesn't Philly still need some shooting? We SAF could use a 3 and D wing.

They won’t give up their big shooter for an undersized shooter. They’d likely just want to add shooting without giving up a shooter.

[exstatic]

As long as White wears a Spurs uniform I don’t think we will ever know. Pop seems much more invested in DJ than White. He is determined to force DJ into the PG role for which he seems pretty ill-suited at this point. Upside? Enormous for a guy who is a poor PG at this juncture. Realistic Upside? Not so much.

White is apparently destined to spend his time as DJ’s backup or being adapted to a SG when he has all the tools to become a very good PG. his upside isn’t much higher, but he already seems like a better PG than DJ. And his realistic ceiling as a PG seems higher than DJ’s.

The Spurs have a habit of having players break that "realistic" ceiling. Did anyone REALLY see Kawhi becoming Kawhi? I sure as F didn't. Even Pop, in one interview I read, said he envisioned him becoming like a super Bowen. I think when you draft a kid at #29, and he makes an All ANYTHING team in his second year, you let it play out. , after his second season, Kawhi got two VOTES for All D. If they had such a thing, he would have been like 7th team.

[Spurs da champs]

People need to stop pretending that it was actually both lottery picks, because it wasn't.

Oh, and Harris just turned down 4/$80M, so...

Nobody was saying to keep Harris but he is & was undoubtedly an asset in addition to picks to either keep or flip for a Jimmy Butler possibly. Without giving up Danny Green either. That was undoubtedly the better route than this roster full of guards.

[Mugen]

Yeah soon as I heard Tobias Harris turned down 80mil...instant sigh of relief they didn't do the Clippers deal

[exstatic]

Yeah soon as I heard Tobias Harris turned down 80mil...instant sigh of relief they didn't do the Clippers deal

Werd.

[sasaint]

The Spurs have a habit of having players break that "realistic" ceiling. Did anyone REALLY see Kawhi becoming Kawhi? I sure as F didn't. Even Pop, in one interview I read, said he envisioned him becoming like a super Bowen. I think when you draft a kid at #29, and he makes an All ANYTHING team in his second year, you let it play out. , after his second season, Kawhi got two VOTES for All D. If they had such a thing, he would have been like 7th team.

But Number 2 is your only real example. Who else greatly outperformed realistic expectations?

However, my real point is this: if Pop were equally invested in White, he could maximize his upside at PG, and likely be a very good one very soon with a little experience and polish. To turn DJ into as good a PG will be a harder chore and he realistically can't be expected to be much better in the long run as an unnatural PG as White can be reasonably expected to be as a natural PG much sooner. Granted, IF he can develop a three-point shot as good as White's and handles as good as White's and court vision/passing skill as good as White's then DJ has freakish athletic potential to become an elite player that White lacks.

[exstatic]

But Number 2 is your only real example. Who else greatly outperformed realistic expectations?

However, my real point is this: if Pop were equally invested in White, he could maximize his upside at PG, and likely be a very good one very soon with a little experience and polish. To turn DJ into as good a PG will be a harder chore and he realistically can't be expected to be much better in the long run as an unnatural PG as White can be reasonably expected to be as a natural PG much sooner. Granted, IF he can develop a three-point shot as good as White's and handles as good as White's and court vision/passing skill as good as White's then DJ has freakish athletic potential to become an elite player that White lacks.

They're rolling the dice on him, and I like it. I've already agreed that White is better now. The thing is, White will never break out and be a superstar. DJ could. It may only be a 5 or 10% chance, but a small market team has to take that chance. It's been pretty well established that we're not likely to pull a top shelf FA, and the only other way is to have high draft picks, to tank. If you can do a re-load instead of a rebuild, and come out of it with a top flight 2-way PG, you're set for another 10 years of winning tradition.

I also love that he just FRUSTRATES Westbrook. You can't really ever shut down a superstar, but I think he does the best job of any defensive PG of messing up his game, and getting him unfocused and thinking of the matchup instead of the game.