Steel and aluminum tariffs...

[vy65]

I mean, why?

[RandomGuy]

I mean, why?

Trump is, in a word, delusional. If he truly thinks this is easy as he claims. Hard to say given his propensity for lying.

Dude is a ty businessman whose "core competency" is fraud and money laundering. It takes a real idiot to be handed 400M + in the eighties and not parley that into tens of billions by 2018.

If you like I can explain the fraud and money laundering parts. Been reading up on some of the investigative reporting being done on the Trump business model.

(edit)
His thinking is very 1970-1980. I think his concept of the world sort of stopped there. Given some sort of cognitive decline in his late 50's this isn't too surprising. Guess we are along for the ride, economically. The damage to the rule of law... that is something else entirely.

[RandomGuy]

I mean, why?

To answer your question: Trump thinks, rightfully, that the US has the upper hand. We do.

Trump things wrongly: That China can't stand the pressure. It can, and most analysis indicates it will not back down. T

hey play the long game. They know Trump is an idiot, and unlikely to get a second term. Why negotiate with him short term? His party got crushed in the midterms, and will likely lose control of all three branches of government in 2020.

[DMC]

RandomGay melting down

Cascading strawman arguments

[baseline bum]

To answer your question: Trump thinks, rightfully, that the US has the upper hand. We do.

Trump things wrongly: That China can't stand the pressure. It can, and most analysis indicates it will not back down. T

hey play the long game. They know Trump is an idiot, and unlikely to get a second term. Why negotiate with him short term? His party got crushed in the midterms, and will likely lose control of all three branches of government in 2020.

The Sinema win in Arizona makes the senate map in 2020 doable, but still far from making the Democrats the favorite to take the senate. They will be down 47-53 after the Mississippi special election, and they'll lose Doug Jones' seat in 2020 also. So they'd have to hold serve in Michigan, Virginia, New Hampshire, and Minnesota. They should have a great chance to take Colorado. Arizona is doable but probably around a coin flip. Then they'd have to take two of North Carolina, Iowa, Georgia, Maine, and Texas if they also won the presidency to get to 50-50. Losing Nelson's seat really hurt their 2020 prospects for flipping the senate.

[RandomGuy]

RandomGay melting down

Cascading strawman arguments

Translation: "my turd sandwich is so yummy, see me take another bite, that means it must be good"

(shrugs)

I will step out your turd sandwich.

Everyone run out and buy a GM product. No? Then you're not really concerned.

Logical form:

Given:
X is a problem.

Thesis of DMC argument:

If person A is not personally involved in solving problem X, they are not really concerned about problem X.

If this were logical, then we should generally be able to subs ute anything for X and have the argument hold up.

I presented multiple instances of "problem X" to demonstrate your argument was indeed, a turd sandwich.

Strawman.. LOL

You suck, and that is funny/sad. But hey keep at that sammich. If you think it is good.

[RandomGuy]

The Sinema win in Arizona makes the senate map in 2020 doable, but still far from making the Democrats the favorite to take the senate. They will be down 47-53 after the Mississippi special election, and they'll lose Doug Jones' seat in 2020 also. So they'd have to hold serve in Michigan, Virginia, New Hampshire, and Minnesota. They should have a great chance to take Colorado. Arizona is doable but probably around a coin flip. Then they'd have to take two of North Carolina, Iowa, Georgia, Maine, and Texas if they also won the presidency to get to 50-50. Losing Nelson's seat really hurt their 2020 prospects for flipping the senate.

GOP will have to defend a LOT more ground in 2020 than the Dems, and I don't see the political landscape changing in any way that favors the GOP in next two years.

A bit far out, but I would give it better than even odds the Dems take the Senate, simply given the unfavorable number of seats, and the presidents deep unpopularity.

A bit far to make any sweeping or definite predictions. I would assess Democrats will win both chambers and the White House in 2020, with a low confidence, given the time interval. Unless something big happens to suddenly favor GOP or hurt Dems.

I have seen no drop off in Democratic intensity or interest after the elections. We are planning for 2020 already, and building on what we learned this time around, only now we have established action/money networks, so there will be less time/effort spent building things. My view on this is mostly local, but from what I read that is not unique.

As noted, a bit far out, but I stand by my assessment for now. Trumps legal problems will consume the GOP, who will be unable to cut the Albatross in time.

[RandomGuy]

..

[RandomGuy]

Once coal country figures out that hte GOP isn't doing anything for them, I wonder how much they will turn on the monster they created. THAT will be interesting for me. Sad for the human misery of coal jobs lost, but a huge opportunity for Democrats to step up and do something about it, which the Republicans seem uninterested in working other than to make coal company owners richer.

[Pavlov]

Once coal country figures out that hte GOP isn't doing anything for them, I wonder how much they will turn on the monster they created. THAT will be interesting for me. Sad for the human misery of coal jobs lost, but a huge opportunity for Democrats to step up and do something about it, which the Republicans seem uninterested in working other than to make coal company owners richer.

They'll always fear/hate minorities, so jerbs don't matter.

[DMC]

Translation: "my turd sandwich is so yummy, see me take another bite, that means it must be good"

(shrugs)

I will step out your turd sandwich.



Logical form:

Given:
X is a problem.

Thesis of DMC argument:



If this were logical, then we should generally be able to subs ute anything for X and have the argument hold up.

I presented multiple instances of "problem X" to demonstrate your argument was indeed, a turd sandwich.

Strawman.. LOL

You suck, and that is funny/sad. But hey keep at that sammich. If you think it is good.

Person A: GM is closing plants
Person B: We should support GM

Person A: I do support them
Person B: Do you like their products?

Person A: Oh god no. I drive only foreign made vehicles
Person B: Maybe that's part of the reason GM is closing some plants

Person A: lol no
Person B: :\

[DMC]

Once coal country figures out that hte GOP isn't doing anything for them, I wonder how much they will turn on the monster they created. THAT will be interesting for me. Sad for the human misery of coal jobs lost, but a huge opportunity for Democrats to step up and do something about it, which the Republicans seem uninterested in working other than to make coal company owners richer.

Doesn't matter if they lose their jobs as long as you can get lulz.

[Pavlov]

Doesn't matter if they lose their jobs as long as you can get lulz.

But you don't care about their losing their jobs either.

[Will Hunting]

Once coal country figures out that hte GOP isn't doing anything for them, I wonder how much they will turn on the monster they created. THAT will be interesting for me. Sad for the human misery of coal jobs lost, but a huge opportunity for Democrats to step up and do something about it, which the Republicans seem uninterested in working other than to make coal company owners richer.

You’re even dumber than the people in coal country if you think that after decades of voting against their own interests they’re going to randomly figure out the GOP isn’t doing anything for them.

[Th'Pusher]

lol There's no conspiracy theory. GM is just following in the footsteps of Ford who made this same decision a year ago. Nobody buys sedans in the US anymore just look around if you ever leave your house. GM as always is way behind in judging the market, that's why they are so far behind in the race to autonomous vehicles. You can believe it's Trumps fault if it pleases you.

So do you take issue with trump exerting a “lot of pressure” on GM for planning to eliminate these jobs?

Federal government attempting to influence the free market good now.

[RandomGuy]

Person A: GM is closing plants
Person B: We should support GM

Person A: I do support them
Person B: Do you like their products?

Person A: Oh god no. I drive only foreign made vehicles
Person B: Maybe that's part of the reason GM is closing some plants

Person A: lol no
Person B: :\

LOL so you didn't mean that other failed argument, you really meant this strawman argument that no one here has put forth, or anywhere else that I could find.

[RandomGuy]

You’re even dumber than the people in coal country if you think that after decades of voting against their own interests they’re going to randomly figure out the GOP isn’t doing anything for them.

Not randomly (HA), but the losses of their jobs and devastation of their communities are simply an opportunity for the Democratic party to step and help in a meaninful way. Make the case, make the difference. They can still keep deciding to vote for failed Republicans and their failed ideas, but make a good case.

[RandomGuy]

Everyone run out and personally help opiod addicts. No? Then you're not really concerned.

[RandomGuy]

Everyone run out and personally retrain laid off workers. No? Then you're not really concerned.

[RandomGuy]

Everyone run out and personally build GPS satellites to improve navigation. No? Then you're not really concerned.

[RandomGuy]

RandomGay melting down

Cascading strawman arguments

Translation: "my turd sandwich is so yummy, see me take another bite, that means it must be good"

(shrugs)

I will step out your turd sandwich.

Everyone run out and buy a GM product. No? Then you're not really concerned.

Logical form:

Given:
X is a problem.

Thesis of DMC argument:

If person A is not personally involved in solving problem X, they are not really concerned about problem X.

If this were logical, then we should generally be able to subs ute anything for X and have the argument hold up.

I presented multiple instances of "problem X" to demonstrate your argument was indeed, a turd sandwich.

Strawman.. LOL

You suck, and that is funny/sad. But hey keep at that sammich. If you think it is good.

[Will Hunting]

Not randomly (HA), but the losses of their jobs and devastation of their communities are simply an opportunity for the Democratic party to step and help in a meaninful way. Make the case, make the difference. They can still keep deciding to vote for failed Republicans and their failed ideas, but make a good case.

Places like West Virginia (the heart of coal country) have been voting conservative for decades and all it's led to for those communities has been job cuts, stagnant wages & widespread poverty across rural America. If the biggest ing recession since the Great Depression didn't convince people in places like West Virginia to stop voting for deregulation and trickle down economics I fail to see why anything Trump does would.

The Democrats had the opportunity to win votes in those communities but failed. Rather than get back to being the party that supports the working class voter, the Dems have regularly taken the bait on things like political correctness and transgender bathrooms.

[RandomGuy]

Places like West Virginia (the heart of coal country) have been voting conservative for decades and all it's led to for those communities has been job cuts, stagnant wages & widespread poverty across rural America. If the biggest ing recession since the Great Depression didn't convince people in places like West Virginia to stop voting for deregulation and trickle down economics I fail to see why anything Trump does would.

The Democrats had the opportunity to win votes in those communities but failed. Rather than get back to being the party that supports the working class voter, the Dems have regularly taken the bait on things like political correctness and transgender bathrooms.

Then that needs to change. Seems like the firebrand progressives that are coming out of the woodwork to volunteer will have a say in that.

Winning elections is a matter of getting out and listening. Democrats can win in traditionally "red" places by doing just that. There are a few good models, and it is possible. Whether we can collectively get our together and do that, is another thing. I do my part locally.

[DMC]

Translation: "my turd sandwich is so yummy, see me take another bite, that means it must be good"

(shrugs)

I will step out your turd sandwich.



Logical form:

Given:
X is a problem.

Thesis of DMC argument:



If this were logical, then we should generally be able to subs ute anything for X and have the argument hold up.

I presented multiple instances of "problem X" to demonstrate your argument was indeed, a turd sandwich.

Strawman.. LOL

You suck, and that is funny/sad. But hey keep at that sammich. If you think it is good.

You meltdown so easily. As the forum do-nothing, you would be sensitive to lack of action accusations.

[boutons_deux]

Winning elections is a matter of getting out and listening.

people used to "vote their pocketbook"

But the Repug base has voted for decades against its own financial interest for decades in order to vote its hate, paranoia, guns. "god guns gays" and abortion, LGBT, iow, emotions over logic and money.

I really don't think that door knocking on that base will switch them to voting for Dems, the party of of everything they hate and fear: LGBT, blacks, browns, women, Muslims