Lakers: Beating the 73-9 Warriors made me the GOAT

[Spurs 4 The Win]

LOL I remember Irving hitting the GOAT dagger shot in game 7 and LeBrick choking his off in crunch time. #carried

[Killakobe81]

Again, you are comparing across eras/seasons, and VORP does take into account the "average" player at that position as well, and with Westbrook, it was clear the THunder were forcing all the action through him, basically making him the system.

I really hope you can understand the metrics before you attack them.

There are cases where one or two abnormalities can creep up once in a while, like Michael Adams scoring 25ppg or Isaiah Thomas suddenly having an MVP season, but for a guy like Bird, you are talking about multiple seasons of absolute stellar and dominant play.

I cheated to slide in Hakeem I already conceded that multiple times. Unlike some similar lists I didn't choose two SGs or move a SG to SF but whatever it's a contradiction we agree there, move on.

BPM is kind to Larry Legend he is 8th all time and buries Durant...
But it also shows that Barkley and Magic were better than Larry, so thanks.

So maybe instead of Durant as my 2nd team SF (Chuck is listed as a SF/PF by BBR) instead of Bird and David Robinson ahead of Hakeem, Shaq Duncan etc?

I'm really not attacking these metrics but you are right I don't care to dig in to them because like any other metric I can find one to suit my argument same way you found or prefer this one to suit yours. But so far all these seem to point to Magic as the better player even if some of these favor Bird and others KD.
So Thanks Amb I may not be able to definitely say KD will surpass Bird... But I feel even more strongly that Magic was better which is more important to me anyways... Thanks, brother this was fun.

So in summary:
1. we both agree Bird is better than KD. (remember that is what I said despite my eye tests)
2. You have an issue with Hakeem as a PF
3. The metrics you directed me to both say Magic is superior to Bird but he is better than KD

Got it.

[FrostKing]

Uncle Tomin’ it up is a fool proof way for black people to get rich , Chris Rock literally admitted that his comedy routines revolved around uncle tomin for the white folks.

Crazy concept. If you integrate, you will find success

[TDMVPDPOY]

Who’s your GOAT?

tim duncan is the goat...

[Rummpd]

True GOAT

Kareem Abdul Jabber

6 les, 6 MVPs, all time scorer and most unstoppable shot

Put it with his all time dominance in college and his dominance across decades and he, not Jordan and certainly not James is the true goat

[FrostKing]

True GOAT

Kareem Abdul Jabber

6 les, 6 MVPs, all time scorer and most unstoppable shot

Put it with his all time dominance in college and his dominance across decades and he, not Jordan and certainly not James is the true goat

Honestly, the only GOAT argument I am okay with as Jordan fan

He even changed his name for political reasons at a difficult time.

Watching old tape, Magic carried early and late but it was Kareem vs Larry in the 80s

[FrostKing]

But once James breaks Jabbar's scoring record. Puts the "longjevity" records in risk

Jordan > Rice > Ronaldo

[Spurtacular]

Danny Ainge GOAT tbh

[Spurtacular]

Honestly, the only GOAT argument I am okay with as Jordan fan

He even changed his name for political reasons at a difficult time.

Watching old tape, Magic carried early and late but it was Kareem vs Larry in the 80s

Bird beat Jordan 14X in a row. And if not for injuries or Bias dying, things would've been vastly different. Jordan wouldn't even be in the convo.

[lefty]

Bird beat Jordan 14X in a row. And if not for injuries or Bias dying, things would've been vastly different. Jordan wouldn't even be in the convo.

Bird is the goat tbh

[RsxPiimp]

Bird is the goat tbh

considering luka’s transition to the nba, makes you wonder how good bird would be in this era.

[lefty]

considering luka’s transition to the nba, makes you wonder how good bird would be in this era.

I think today’s NBA is perfect for Bird’s skillset

[Corporal_Upham]

considering luka’s transition to the nba, makes you wonder how good bird would be in this era.

I think today’s NBA is perfect for Bird’s skillset

Prime Bird would be behind Lebron, equal to Durant and Curry and ahead of Leonard.

[lefty]

Prime Bird would be behind Lebron, equal to Durant and Curry and ahead of Leonard.

Lol no

[Killakobe81]

I think today’s NBA is perfect for Bird’s skillset

Luka has a better handle than Bird...
Not saying Bird would not be great, true greatness is transcendent...
But Luka's handle along with his shooting and IQ is what helps make him great in today's game. Bird has the last two but without a great handle Luka is Kyle Korver with better vision

[ambchang]

Luka has a better handle than Bird...
Not saying Bird would not be great, true greatness is transcendent...
But Luka's handle along with his shooting and IQ is what helps make him great in today's game. Bird has the last two but without a great handle Luka is Kyle Korver with better vision

. You try too hard.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If you have to call yourself the GOAT you’re probably not the GOAT.

[ambchang]

He would have a legit case as the GOAT if he can drag this dog of a lakers team to the finals or maybe even just the WCF this year.

Most top 10 players can’t even make this show a playoff team. See how LeThanos will do.

[Killakobe81]

. You try too hard.

at what?
and pot meet kettle ...
what am I trying hard at?
Luka has a great handle for his size ...

Do you even watch Luka play?
You think Bird had a better handle than Luka? honestly? or do you need to find some advanced metrics because you cant see what's clear as day?
I said Bird was transcendant. he would still be great. Im just saying because both are white ... people shouldnt comparebecauise their games are diffrent. Saying Bird will thrive because Luka is ...is lazy analysis.
Bird was at least a mediocre defender, Doncic so far is trash.
Doncic is a solid rebounder Bird a great one for his position (but to be fair Jordan hoards the boards)
Bird was a great FT shooter and great clutch shooter.,,,but I think there is achance Luka may be a better 3 point shooter (he is mediocre for palyer as good as he is right now at FT line) someday, he is a rookie, so we will see.
But to say Bird would have the same impact as Luka when luka relies on a harden type setback and attacking hard close outs ...with his handle.
I saw Luka size up durant with his dribble and step back 3 in his face, not saying bird cant get shots off on KD ... but not like THAT.

Luka is more built for today ...bird would be great no doubt about it. But not sure he would adapt as well as Donic projects, offensively.
I know it sounds crazy but again Im talking skill.
Put bird in tyoday's game and training methods? Maybe.
But if we take curent bird we see on highlights he doesnt seem to "fit" modern NBA as well as Luka ...

If it makes you feel better ... same with Magic.
I dont think steph is better than Magic, but for modern NBA he just might be a better "fit" because of his handle and range.

Doesnt make Magic any less great or Bird ... they were teh best for their times.

[ambchang]

at what?
and pot meet kettle ...
what am I trying hard at?
Luka has a great handle for his size ...

Do you even watch Luka play?
You think Bird had a better handle than Luka? honestly? or do you need to find some advanced metrics because you cant see what's clear as day?
I said Bird was transcendant. he would still be great. Im just saying because both are white ... people shouldnt comparebecauise their games are diffrent. Saying Bird will thrive because Luka is ...is lazy analysis.
Bird was at least a mediocre defender, Doncic so far is trash.
Doncic is a solid rebounder Bird a great one for his position (but to be fair Jordan hoards the boards)
Bird was a great FT shooter and great clutch shooter.,,,but I think there is achance Luka may be a better 3 point shooter (he is mediocre for palyer as good as he is right now at FT line) someday, he is a rookie, so we will see.
But to say Bird would have the same impact as Luka when luka relies on a harden type setback and attacking hard close outs ...with his handle.
I saw Luka size up durant with his dribble and step back 3 in his face, not saying bird cant get shots off on KD ... but not like THAT.

Luka is more built for today ...bird would be great no doubt about it. But not sure he would adapt as well as Donic projects, offensively.
I know it sounds crazy but again Im talking skill.
Put bird in tyoday's game and training methods? Maybe.
But if we take curent bird we see on highlights he doesnt seem to "fit" modern NBA as well as Luka ...

If it makes you feel better ... same with Magic.
I dont think steph is better than Magic, but for modern NBA he just might be a better "fit" because of his handle and range.

Doesnt make Magic any less great or Bird ... they were teh best for their times.

Bird had absolutely sick handle.

As for great in today’s game this is just a silly argument. You are basically saying magic and bird can’t adapt and we both know that’s untrue. Great ones adapt. Bird and magic will.

[Neo.]

Bird had absolutely sick handle.

[Killakobe81]

Bird had absolutely sick handle.

As for great in today’s game this is just a silly argument. You are basically saying magic and bird can’t adapt and we both know that’s untrue. Great ones adapt. Bird and magic will.

Never said they would not in theory... As I said multiple times. Greatness transcendent... But
Sick handles?
I think both Magic and BIRD had strong handles... But sick?! GTFOH!!
"I was a child of the 80s (and late 70s) think 85 Lakers and 86 Celts can hang with anyone... But not sure outside of Isiah and a few others, (Jordan had a great crossover) did anyone of that era were what I would consider" sick "" lots of strong handles, sure... But maybe I'm forgetting someone but it wasn't bird or magic nor STOCKTON, CHEEKS ETC.. They were great then would be great today. Doesnt magically make their handles sick...

[Killakobe81]

I will say watching his YouTube clips...
Bird is a much better passer than Luka who is a gifted passer and three point shooters would thrive next to Bird... Larry is closer to magic passing wise, I concede that. Still think magic was better at the longer bounce passes full court pass etc but Bird had great touch passes... Irony is looking for Bird dribble highlights made me appreciate how little he dribbled, he passed the ball after one or two bounces on most plays I found unless backing a dude down...still lookin for "sick" tho

[Killakobe81]

Bird may be best touch passer I ever seen, tbh

[ambchang]

Never said they would not in theory... As I said multiple times. Greatness transcendent... But
Sick handles?
I think both Magic and BIRD had strong handles... But sick?! GTFOH!!
"I was a child of the 80s (and late 70s) think 85 Lakers and 86 Celts can hang with anyone... But not sure outside of Isiah and a few others, (Jordan had a great crossover) did anyone of that era were what I would consider" sick "" lots of strong handles, sure... But maybe I'm forgetting someone but it wasn't bird or magic nor STOCKTON, CHEEKS ETC.. They were great then would be great today. Doesnt magically make their handles sick...

Kyrie sick? No. Iverson sick? No. Isiah Thomas sick? No.

But historical big man level sick? Absolutely.

OTOH, magic is the best ball handling big PG ever. Both types of ball handling.