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No, Parker was not better than Ginobili.
also agree with Chris
harden has better handles than manu. even if you dont factor in his stepback bull , he just has much tighter handles overall. though you could argue manu was even more proficient with his footwork when attacking the rim, and that makes up for it.
No, Parker was not better than Ginobili.
Also in retrospect, Ginobili never had a consistent mid-range shot like Harden does.
Ginobili sacrificed his ball handling for the team, yo
do either of those guys heavily rely on mid range shots anyway? manu would always attack the basket and pass. or he would catch and shoot a 3.
harden is a lot more likely to just take a 3 off the dribble. manu would only do stuff like that when the shot clock was winding down.
for his career, manu took about 17.7% of his FGA from 10 feet through the 3pt line. for harden, that number is about 16.2%. manu took a higher % of his FGA from the paint, harden a higher % from 3
Yeah, maybe, and that's it.
Although I would like to know just how much better Harden's ball handling is on the moves that really matter when attacking a basket. He has a lot of flashy between the legs dribbles to end up shooting step back threes, Manu got the same step back threes without the need of pulling all that flashy .
Harden doesn't have Manu's behind the back gather to attack the basket for example.
this is a good point. i thin harden shows a tighter handle out in the perimeter to shake somebody for a shot, but manu's handles are more effective at getting to the rim.
Manu was Harden before it was cool to only shoot 3's, layups, dunks or free throws. In today's NBA, under D'antoni, he would have only emphatised that. As a number one option he would have shot as many 3's as Harden, tbh.
for his career, harden takes about 44% of his FGA from 3, and makes about 36.6% of them.
for his career, manu took about 41.5% of his FGA from 3, and made about 37% of them
they're not that different, and you can nitpick who does what marginally better. it comes down to volume/load which are products of opportunity/durability.
with manu, there's a lot of "what if" concerning his durability. for harden, we know he's solid as a rock. its also fair to speculate that manu's defense would take a hit if he played as many minutes/games as harden and had to carry the same usage rate in a dantoni offense
As good as James Harden if he was allowed to have his own team?
Let's see,i've personally witnessed a Manu led Bologna team conquer Europe with him being the MVP in 2001.
A Manu led Argentina national team,stun the world in 2004 and win Olympic Gold (and i should be able to add the World Cup of 2002 in here but thanks to a of a ref they "only" got world's 2nd)
A Spurs team co-led offensively with TD ring in 2005.
So,basically i've never ever seen a Manu team not win it all.
Would he be "allowed" to run his own team? Well,Doncic is allowed to run his as a rookie so yeah he would be allowed to run his team.
He wouldn't ever match Harden's numbers obviously,cause he wasn't playing the disgusting basketball Harden is playing but i personally value winning more than playing the refs for free throws.
And as for the duration thing,yes,with Ginobili's general,wild,out of control playstyle he wouldn't be averaging 36 mpg.He would average 30 mpg.
Manu's playstyle gets you bruises,broken bones,sore lingaments,and exploding testicles.
And once in a while it gets you that gold shiny thing that reminds you it's all worth it.
Hit us up when Harden actually wins something shiny!
(The golden shower Manu gave him in the 2017 playoffs doesn't count)
harden shoots 15 threes a game and no that's not a typo. There's no way Ginobili shoots that many 3s per game. I agree that his numbers would be up under Dantoni but he was never able to play big minutes that Harden can play as well as being as durable as Harden.
It's actually 12.8 3's per game.
No matter the number, you are not taking in consideration eras. Back in the mid 2000's there's no way Harden would have averaged 13 3's per game, or be allowed to go 1 for 17 from 3 on a single game. He would have been checked for mental Insanity. He also wouldn't go to the FT line 12 times a game.
You think Manu wouldn't shoot as many 3's because you never got the chance to actually see it, but you don't know how many he would average on a D'antoni's team, in today's NBA, as the first option.
Back on his days Manu would average around 5/6 3's per game playing less than 30 minutes per game. And that was as a 6th man, on a slow paced team, on a non 3pt happy NBA.
Put Manu on his prime, in today's advanced metrics crazy league, under D'antoni, playing 36 minutes per game as a first option. I think it's easy to imagine him averaging around 10 attempted 3's per game.
I'd take Manu'd heart every day of the year. Harden.
Manu = 4 Championships
Harden = 0 Championships.
Only reason Manu is considered by some as not durable is because of his reckless abandon wanting to win so badly. Had Pop not decided he needed Manu to lead the lifeless bench at that time Manu would have been a 20-7-7 player as a starter. But, Manu being who he is, accepted it. 99.999999999999% of NBA players would not have. Manu like Timmy and Tony always put team first. Bottom line is I'd take Manu in a heartbeat.
I mean, watch this video from a slightly past prime Manu and tell me it's not the same kind of things we tend to see from Harden. He even got Harden's foul drawing prowesses to a T
The difference is that he pulled this on a league where offensive numbers hadn't exploded yet.
I think if you look at the 2005 Spurs and the 2018 Rockets, trading 2005 Manu for 2018 Harden would make both teams worse.
Offensively, Manu would never consistently have as many points as Harden even if he was the number one option on his own team. He's just not built that way. Manu's game is more complete. With that said, I'd take Manu over Harden any day of the week. Manu's passion and compe ive spirit is off the charts. I also think Manu's athleticism is underrated. Outside of Jordan, and maybe Kobe, one of the best in game, in traffic, 2-guard dunkers of all time!
Dwyane Wade.
Manu is the best white SG dunker tho.
Scratch that,Manu is the best white SG period. the logo.
Harden's entire game is based on Manu, Harden even admits it
Also Manu was not just an ok defender, he was a very good one. Harden is a bad defender
and then there's the fact that a 40-year old Manu blocked MVP Harden on a game winner in a game 5 of the playoffs
add to that that Manu won les with every team he ever played for and there is really no argument out there that justifies Harden being the better player.
https://ca.nba.com/news/how-good-was-manu-ginobili-san-antonio-spurs-retire-hall-of-fame/1uqeuau5vsdqa1ucub77hhpiz1Over that same period, Ginobili averaged over 30 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists per 100 possessions. The only other players to reach those thresholds over that span? LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Tracy McGrady.
Given San Antonio's winning culture, widespread love for Ginobili and his overall impact, it's somewhat incredible that he only made two All-Star teams, especially when comparing his impact to the players that actually got the nod. Using Basketball-Reference.com's individual offensive ratings as our compass, it's crystal clear that he deserved far more than the two selections that will accompany his official resume.
Going beyond his prime and focusing on Ginobili's career on a whole, you'll find that on a per possession basis he ranks among the most productive and well-rounded players in modern NBA history. Since 1973-74 which is when the NBA began tracking turnovers and thus, possessions, there are 1,358 players that have appeared in at least 250 games. Of them, only nine - including Ginobili - managed to contribute 27 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists per 100 possessions over a career.
Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 01-17-2019 at 05:30 PM.
Manu was clutch, although he could be an error prone spaz. Harden is so talented but he is nowhere near as clutch and is a chucker, a FT , and a stat padder extraordinaire. Manu had compe iveness and mental for ude on par with Jordan and Bird.
Godnobili>Haren
First of all, I won't check every person here who's throwing numbers up to justify Manu < Harden. It's nonsense due to many factors, including some of the stats are not even accurate.
Second, I would think Harden would feel insulted with this comparison since he loves Manu and has based his game almost entirely after Manu's.
and third, Manu was a proven battle-tested player who has won pretty much anything that can be won in bastketball and more than the other 99.5% players who have ever played BB professionally. So this discussion is pointless. There's no need to try to rewrite history, we all watched it happen.
Manu was a historical player who cannot be compared to anyone else, for good or for worse, and he should be respected and remembered the same way we revere players such as Bird, Magic, Karim, Robertson, Duncan, Russell, and so many others of that 0.5% top ever players who cannot and should not be compared with anyone else.
Tbh I love the big 3, but Timmy and especially Tony would not play coming from the benchManu = 4 Championships
Harden = 0 Championships.
Only reason Manu is considered by some as not durable is because of his reckless abandon wanting to win so badly. Had Pop not decided he needed Manu to lead the lifeless bench at that time Manu would have been a 20-7-7 player as a starter. But, Manu being who he is, accepted it. 99.999999999999% of NBA players would not have. Manu like Timmy and Tony always put team first. Bottom line is I'd take Manu in a heartbeat.. Manu was pretty special like that.
Great English! Manu is one of a kind and hard to compare to others. No disparaging Harden, but Manu won a Gold Medal with a Argentina, Euro-league championship, and about 25% of the NBA championships available in the years he played. It will be impossible for Harden or many other people to match that. It's a team sport and helped his teams win.
March 28th is going to be insane.
"He's Manu Ginobili."
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