The Kawhi/DeMar trade is one of the most lopsided trades of the decade

[Russ]

Getting a 30 year old player that is due 85 millions for the next three seasons isn't rebuilding for the future.

If they really wanted to rebuild, trading away Mills or Gasol's contract would have made more sense than trading Green's expiring one.

You are ignoring the role player/scorer (even flawed scorer) distinction.

You need scorers (even old and overpaid) to get you through the transition.

Role players, no matter what age, have to go.

Derozan has his weaknesses, but people forget that he can get you through a drought when the "beautiful game" isn't working and you need a ballhog who can stop the bleeding and do the dirty work to keep the game going (even if he's terribly inefficient).

Derozan has value at this stage of the Spurs program despite his shortcomings.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Why would the Spurs thrown in Danny Green?

Maybe because they're rebuilding for the future?

And Danny Green has nothing to do with their plans going forward?

Good lord, people . . .

I think the point, Russ, is that they could have gotten more out of Danny separately. He was literally salary ballast in that deal. You can argue that the Raps wouldn't accept anything else the Spurs could offer, but we know that there was at least one other offer for Kawhi. If a team is really rebuilding for the future, they are looking to get value for value. What Toronto was acquiring was Kawhi - he was the brass ring in the deal. Tossing in Danny was unnecessary, IMO. Danny is a bargain at $10M by today's contract standards, plus he's expiring at the end of this season.

DDR + Fred VanVleet would have matched Kawhi+Mills just about perfectly. The Spurs could have cleared one of their albatross contracts, and it's not too big of a price to pay to get a legit Top 3 player. That's just off the top of my head.

[DAF86]

You are ignoring the role player/scorer (even flawed scorer) distinction.

You need scorers (even old and overpaid) to get you through the transition.

Role players, no matter what age, have to go.

Derozan has his weaknesses, but people forget that he can get you through a drought when the "beautiful game" isn't working and you need a ballhog who can stop the bleeding and do the dirty work to keep the game going (even if he's terribly inefficient).

Derozan has value at this stage of the Spurs program despite his shortcomings.

So, do they need scorers or are they rebuilding?

[Russ]

So, do they need scorers or are they rebuilding?

Both.

Scorers won't be a part of your future but you need them now as a bridge to the future.

As MLK said, "I may not get there with you, but we will make it to the promised land." (MLK was a big Derozan fan.)

[ZeusWillJudge]

You are ignoring the role player/scorer (even flawed scorer) distinction.

You need scorers (even old and overpaid) to get you through the transition.

Role players, no matter what age, have to go.

Derozan has his weaknesses, but people forget that he can get you through a drought when the "beautiful game" isn't working and you need a ballhog who can stop the bleeding and do the dirty work to keep the game going (even if he's terribly inefficient).

Derozan has value at this stage of the Spurs program despite his shortcomings.

And sadly, Russ, most of that is true when you're desperately clinging to the idea that you can squeak into the playoffs, and from there "anything can happen".

The other thing that should be getting painfully clear by now is that you need scorers...but you also need to stop opposing scorers every once in a while. If the Spurs are going to hand DDR the rock to essentially run the offense, then pull Forbes off the floor and pair DDR with Danny. Then they could hide DeRozan at least a little bit on D.

I still think throwing Danny in as salary ballast was a mistake.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Both.

Scorers won't be a part of your future but you need them now as a bridge to the future.

As MLK said, "I may not get there with you, but we will make it to the promised land." (MLK was a big Derozan fan.)

No, they aren't rebuilding. They are attempting another "rebuild on the fly", and they don't have the anchor(s) to do that anymore. They aren't committed to a rebuild, and they can't compete the way they are. It's absolutely the worst of both worlds. That's just fact.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

Wow people here must find something interesting to do with their lives. The exaggeratin exaggerated reactions to DeRozan failures are overwhelming.
DeMar is obviously going to fail with a team so lacking of defenders, as he is a bad one and it's clearly exposed.
Once the team find a couple of wing defenders he'll be better.

He cannot beat a defender, but if he does cannot finish, shoot or run the o....

[Russ]

I still think throwing Danny in as salary ballast was a mistake.

It's a close call but Danny had to go. Whether in this trade or a better one is debatable.

Mills is keepable because he's more of a scorer than Danny (you're not as worried about defense during this phase).

[Russ]

No, they aren't rebuilding. They are attempting another "rebuild on the fly", and they don't have the anchor(s) to do that anymore. They aren't committed to a rebuild, and they can't compete the way they are. It's absolutely the worst of both worlds. That's just fact.

Time will tell.

[DAF86]

Both.

Scorers won't be a part of your future but you need them now as a bridge to the future.

As MLK said, "I may not get there with you, but we will make it to the promised land." (MLK was a big Derozan fan.)

In what way does keeping guys like Mills or Gasol and getting DeRozan helps to bridge for the future? It seems to me like you are doing a whole lot of spinning son.

[Arcadian]

It was the best we could do, though. Nothing better was available.

Kawhitter.

[UnWantedTheory]

If no trades were good, then make no trade at all.

Why lose him for nothing when you can get some assets? A 1st and Jakob are better than getting nothing.

[UnWantedTheory]

You don't need a 29 year old all star like DeRozan to make that trade work.

PATFO should have pushed for Siakam+Valanciunas+picks for Kawhi+Gasol.

If Ujiri was so bent on getting rid of Demar it would be on him to find a 3d team to make it work.

And hindsight is 20/20 obviously like always,but,yes,somewhere between a front office exhausted from a prolonged period of trade rumors and the given rule of "we're not tanking in Pop's last couple of years" we entrapped ourselves in a difficult situation.And we made a trade that is looking more and more of a failure game after game.

You have no insight so why bother with hindsight? You have zero idea of what was on the table or not. Trading Kawhi was always going to be a lopsided trade. People are really being absurd about this. It wasn't the greatest haul, but it wasn't the worst trade in the last decade either. When DDR plays to his potential the team can be elevated, however he lost his marbles, balls, or both, and now this is where we are. He currently sucks, and it is what it is, but frustration with mediocrity shouldn't lead us to being unreasonable.

[spurraider21]

What the were they supposed to do? Seriously. No trades were good. The whole ing thing sucked and Kawhi did everything in his power to reduce his trade value.

tobias harris and 2 firsts

[DAF86]

Why lose him for nothing when you can get some assets? A 1st and Jakob are better than getting nothing.

You start the season with him, get him on the court to up his trade value and then you trade him.

[DAF86]

It was the best we could do, though. Nothing better was available.

Kawhitter.

Literally, all the other options rumoured were better. Covington, Saric and I don't know how many picks was better. Harris and two lottery picks was also better.

[Xx_SpursNation_xX]

They should have kept kawhitter but i guess pop didn't want to deal with it anymore.

[Twisted_Dawg]

tobias harris and 2 firsts

Then flip Harris to Philly last week for players and picks.
Now that would be a ballsy move.

[GusT15]

You have no insight so why bother with hindsight? You have zero idea of what was on the table or not. Trading Kawhi was always going to be a lopsided trade. People are really being absurd about this. It wasn't the greatest haul, but it wasn't the worst trade in the last decade either. When DDR plays to his potential the team can be elevated, however he lost his marbles, balls, or both, and now this is where we are. He currently sucks, and it is what it is, but frustration with mediocrity shouldn't lead us to being unreasonable.

First of all i'm only criticizing the "value" of the trade,as that's what this thread is about and not DDR's struggles.

Toronto was not the only team interested in Leonard,we know that much.We know Tobias was on the table,along with picks,we know the Lakers trash+picks were on the table but the Lakers,we know Phily's RoCo+Saric+picks was on the table.That's as far as insight goes.

Now let me ask you this.Let's say that during the past summer Pop decides that he has no interest to coach anymore,after a turbulent season and the loss of his wife,he will retire from Spurs and just coach team USA in 2020.Do you still do the DeRozan trade? Do you? I know i'm sure as not doing it.

That's what i meant by entrapping ourselves,Leonard made this trade impossible to deal with from the start,and then the Spurs short term plans made it even harder to get even remotely better value!
So,yes,PATFO made a pretty shortsighted trade,basically gambled on DeRozan.It's not the worse trade of the decade but it's still a bad,not well thought trade.

[Arcadian]

Literally, all the other options rumoured were better. Covington, Saric and I don't know how many picks was better. Harris and two lottery picks was also better.

The key there is "rumored." Maybe those weren't actual possibilities.

[duncan2k5]

Nephew would have torpedo’d the Toronto if we didn’t move quickly. That was the reason for the 2am trade. You really can’t judge the trade until another season and see if DDR and Nephew re-signs. I think Nephew was leaving Toronto after this year, but that Gasol trade might make his uncle reconsider. I could see him signing a two year with a one year player option with Toronto. In two years, LeThanos would be close to retirement and Nephew could replace him there

It's up to the raptors fans to decide if it was a win... And if u ask them, they're ing elated they don't have to have DDR on the team, even if Kawhi leaves... They'd rather have a shot at the finals and Kawhi leave, than to have DDR on the team... It's 100% a win for them because their fans consider it a win either way... Addition by subtraction

[blah28]

Kawhi's camp kept stating that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers which handicapped the offer the Spurs were receiving. No team was going to offer anything incredible based on his comments before being traded. Toronto took a risk and we will see if he re-signs or not.

Let's say the Spurs kept him, what prevents Kawhi, saying he is still injured and sitting out most of the year? He wouldn't even meet with the Spurs staff in New York, what would be the point of keeping him and paying him?

The trade is done, I love the what if's. It doesn't matter Golden State is going to win again and Kawhi is most likely going to Los Angeles this offseason.

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi's camp kept stating that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers which handicapped the offer the Spurs were receiving. No team was going to offer anything incredible based on his comments before being traded. Toronto took a risk and we will see if he re-signs or not.

Let's say the Spurs kept him, what prevents Kawhi, saying he is still injured and sitting out most of the year? He wouldn't even meet with the Spurs staff in New York, what would be the point of keeping him and paying him?

The trade is done, I love the what if's. It doesn't matter Golden State is going to win again and Kawhi is most likely going to Los Angeles this offseason.

Not Lakers... LA... The clippers offer was better than DDR

[Collins21]

I'm sorry but this team would have 20 wins max with a Saric/ Covington package. Covington has been hurt most of the season and Saric has regressed but for some reason this site has an obsession with Euro trash players.

[Uriel]

As I have been saying from the start, we should've kept Kawhi, won 60 games, made the WCF, and then offered him the supermax in the summer. There's no way he would've walked away from that.