I dunno man,maybe it had something to do with him being injured in the 2002 World Cup Final and playing just 12 mins with 0 points.Why is there this presuposition that Manu wouldn't be able to handle starters minutes even though he has dominated FIBA tournaments where you would play 5 games in 5 straight days?
Or maybe it had something to do with him being injured in the 2008 Olympics and sitting out the Bronze Medal game.
Or maybe it had something to do with Manu being in minutes restriction throughout every FIBA tournament cause everybody and their mother knows that if you play Basketball the way Manu played,at some point you get injured.
Hint: I'm really not the dude you want to quote with smartass remarks about Manu Ginobili.I was right there courtside in Athens when they won Gold.And i'm one of the biggest Manu fans ever since his Euroleague days.
Cheers
lol at Manu being on a minutes restriction. In his prime he played around 35 minutes per game (not counting blowouts) out of 40 for 5 straight days.
The injury in 2002 was a freak injury, for stepping over Dirk's foot, and had nothing to do with amount of minutes. The one in 2008 was an injury that carried all over the NBA season and only blew up once he forced up during the summer.
Look man,i really don't like arguing against you about Manu cause i can see you're a Manu fan just like me.
I'm just gonna say this last thing and i hope you can understand where i'm coming from.
Manu Ginobili played the game with a passion unparalleled by nobody.NOBODY.Not even Michael Jordan.Cause for Jordan winning was a compulsion.A psychological disorder.For Manu winning was about the game.He did with respect,he did it with amazing talent and his unmatched courage.
He played every game without fear,with every inch of his will,chased every ball like his life depended on it.On every compe ion,on every stage,for any team he played for.
BUT,all these things that made him a legend,a champion,one of the most influential basketball players of all time,are also the things that could never let him be the main option on an NBA team.
You are talking about freak injuries like Manu had one or two of those.
DAF,dude,the man lost a testicle.Trying to take a charge.In the last minutes of an NBA game.In the regular season.A game that the Spurs had already won.And he lost more than a month!
And that's just an extreme example but it's true.The more time he was on the court,the chances of him getting an injury were multiplying by the minute.It is,what it is.I'm not gonna argue with you anymore.I miss him as well.
He still played untill he was ing 40 years old and had only one season ending injury.
I do think Manu's health concerns are overblown but I understand people doubting that. What it can't be doubt is his per minute greatness. He trully was one of the most efficient and impactful players to ever lace them up. He's obvioulsy nowhere close to Tim Duncan, who is arguably a top 5 player of all-time, but he's definitely top 50, imho.
It is really a shame that most people think that players like Reggie Miller or Allen Iverson were better than Manu.
I do always wonder about Robinson in today's NBA game. Pretty much a 7 foot guard with better athleticism then anyone in the NBA. I think of all the top big men in the 90s-2000's of Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, etc that in today's game Robinson's natural ability and game would have fit best...Capela, Deandre etc all these guys are compared to Drob and they're starting caliber bigs in today's NBA.
Great post. I would love to see that got Harden play in a league with real basketball rules. After every play, his stupid punchable face would be hanging open while the other team scores easily because he never gets back on defense.
Then again, he'll never win an NBA le, either. What a .
Great post!
DRob could outrun any guard, and with no defense on the paint, DRob would score 40+ a night. But then again, Pop would have to rest him with all the running.
2003 Manu was hurt.
And then he went 2004-2007 by being healthy and we dominated tbh. 2 championships and Manu was playing like a demigod out there. He was our closer and our clutch free throw shooter and the heart and soul of the team.
buuuut. 2008 he was injured. 2009 he was injured. Pop was forced to really watch Manu's minutes bc the guy was injury prone and played balls to the wall. So 2010 he averaged less than 30 minutes a game. But low and behold, even doing that, 2011 Manu got injured.
ginobili was great and I rather have him than Harden bc Harden is a stat padder while Ginobili is a winner and I will always want a winner on my team. Case and point is Harden staying in the end of games already won shooting last second shots to keep his 30 point streak alive. Ginobili didn't care about a stupid scoring streak, he only cares about winning.
but his body didn't allow him to play healthy for very long and for that reason alone you have can't have Ginobili as your long term #1 guy. Maybe he can have a great 3 year dominance, but Timmy dominated for much longer than that. A prime Duncan was unstoppable then and he would be unstoppable now. The dude was putting up 23 and 12 against cousins and 28 and 14 against Deandre Jordan at age ing 38. What would he have done to them in his prime??
The only season ending injury Manu had was in 2009, that's it.
Then whatever he had in other seasons he played through it like all NBA players do. If Manu was "hurt" in 2003, then you can also say that about Duncan in 2005, Tony in 2013, Kawhi in 2017, etc. Very rarely a player gets to the playoffs without being "hurt" somewhere.
Sorry to break it to you, but in the NBA they both were better than Manu.He still played untill he was ing 40 years old and had only one season ending injury.
I do think Manu's health concerns are overblown but I understand people doubting that. What it can't be doubt is his per minute greatness. He trully was one of the most efficient and impactful players to ever lace them up. He's obvioulsy nowhere close to Tim Duncan, who is arguably a top 5 player of all-time, but he's definitely top 50, imho.
It is really a shame that most people think that players like Reggie Miller or Allen Iverson were better than Manu.
The numbers and accolades bare that out, but you'll argue something about "advanced metrics, courage or intangibles," but both Ray and A.I. were "lead dogs" going a multiple all-star games and getting to the conference finals or Finals.
Manu is a great, great 2 guard but only in Spurs Nation does false narrative exist that he was a top 5 SG. Guess what, he wasn't in the NBA.
And I love the guy, his game and all the reckless abandon he played with.
Note: He is a top 15 - 20 SG and a lock for the HOF. He just doesn't have the "counting numbers" or time as the "lead dog" to put him the upper echelon (Jordan, Bryant, Wade, Drexler, etc).
They weren't better, they had better individual raw stats because of cir stances.
I know the raw stats and individual accolades (on the NBA) debate is a lost one, but that's not my point at all. My argument is that Manu, as a basketball player, was better than both AI and Reggie Miller. To me it is pretty simple to come to that conclusion just by seeing these players play, but if you don't want to go by subjective metrics, there are plenty of objective ones out there that prove that, indeed, Manu was the better one of that bunch.
Duncan won a le in 2005 and Finals MVP so that's not an equal comparison. You should've brought up 2000 Duncan tbh. Ginobili missed 13 games in 2003 and was on a minutes restriction when he came back. And you are making my point for me tbh. I said you can have a 3 year window of being good with Ginobili (Kawhi and Parker too). But you have a 10 year dominance with Duncan. Parker had a great 2 years. Kawhi had a great 2 years. Ginobili had a great 3 years. But that's all they were able to give a franchise.
Duncan played 80 + games 7 times. Ginobili has done it once. That's it. You can't consistently miss 10 + games a season and expect him to carry a franchise. Ask Lebron what happened when he missed 16 games. Ginobili was also never able to handle big minutes like Duncan was for an entire season. Ginobili's career high was 31 minutes a game. That's it. You can make all the excuse you want but these are facts.
Manu also won a championship in 2003.
Folks like Kawhi or AD have consitently missed 10+ games a season and nobody in their right minds would dare to say they aren't franchise players.
But, anyway, like I have already said: I think Manu's health concerns are overblown but I do understand people that have reservations about that.
This thread wasn't to talk about that, it was made to talk about his style of play and debate whether or not if, on today's NBA, that style of play would be better suited as a main offensive option for a team than a traditional back to the basket game like Duncan's. Despite the fact that Duncan is pretty clearly, and with a big difference, the better player all around.
That time Manu dunked on three Lakers-good grief
And him going right at and around Shaq and Shaq going “which way did he go?”
Good times
Duncan controlled games defensively better than Ginobili so I can't say that it would be better today. We are scoring at a good rate but can't stop anybody so just defense alone Duncans game translates better today.Manu also won a championship in 2003.
Folks like Kawhi or AD have consitently missed 10+ games a season and nobody in their right minds would dare to say they aren't franchise players.
But, anyway, like I have already said: I think Manu's health concerns are overblown but I do understand people that have reservations about that.
This thread wasn't to talk about that, it was made to talk about his style of play and debate whether or not if, on today's NBA, that style of play would be better suited as a main offensive option for a team than a traditional back to the basket game like Duncan's. Despite the fact that Duncan is pretty clearly, and with a big difference, the better player all around.
I rather have Duncans offense as well. He was putting up 40 and 15 in games and dominating. Nobody could guard him one on one and he demanded double teams. Put shooters around him and you have a contender. I'm not quite sure how to build a team around Ginobili and his offense. He's obviously a great all around player who can pass, dribble, shoot, drive, and finish. But what type of players do you surround him with? A big man who can play D and roll like Capela. Some shooters. You need a defensive wing too.
Why bring up defense, when the thread has nothing to do with it?
See Harden's Rockets, who were an injury away from ringing last season.I rather have Duncans offense as well. He was putting up 40 and 15 in games and dominating. Nobody could guard him one on one and he demanded double teams. Put shooters around him and you have a contender. I'm not quite sure how to build a team around Ginobili and his offense. He's obviously a great all around player who can pass, dribble, shoot, drive, and finish. But what type of players do you surround him with? A big man who can play D and roll like Capela. Some shooters. You need a defensive wing too.
Manu played a lesser role with a top 5 all-time great big man by his side (nearly his entire career). They, all three (and I think Miller is overrated historically), played bigger roles while being the #1 option, leading their teams to deep runs and make multiple all-star games.
You can make a strong case that Manu is better than Miller (who was a more "limited" player), but Allen and Iverson were high level players from nearly day one.
They also had teams built around their strengths and games, yet Manu played a complimentary role to Duncan (just like Parker).
He might have been the most "complete basketball player" amongst the 4, but Iverson and Allen were the better NBA players/had the better NBA careers.
Iverson and Allen?
Also, Manu has also had season of being the Spurs' first offensive options and did pretty damn well, with 60+ wins seasons and WCF appearances to show for it. That excuse about Manu not being able to carry a team on the NBA is bull .
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