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  1. #151
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    Robert Charles: Obama is right -- Dems' circular firing squad is set to give Trump a 2020 Former President Obama declared concern Saturday that Democrats are creating ”a circular firing squad” by embracing progressive socialists. He is right. Democrats are setting up a 2020 landslide -- for President Trump.https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/robe...2020-landslide
    that's not what he said.

  2. #152
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    It's your position.

    I never said it was my position.

    Quit lying.

    Why do you always lie?
    Okay, then finally tell us what you think the contrast is.

  3. #153
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    Okay, then finally tell us what you think the contrast is.
    How do you think each generally feels about the ACA, derp?

    Fill in the blanks with "for" or "against."

    Trump is ____ the ACA.

    Biden is ____ the ACA.

  4. #154
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    How do you think each generally feels about the ACA, derp?

    Fill in the blanks with "for" or "against."

    Trump is ____ the ACA.

    Biden is ____ the ACA.
    So, you think Biden's gonna win on trying to revive the Obamacare scam?


  5. #155
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    So, you think Biden's gonna win on trying to revive the Obamacare scam?

    Derp votes present.

    lol derp

  6. #156
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    Derp votes present.

    lol derp
    Nope. I'm going back to the crux of the matter from the start. Biden can't beat Trump. He doesn't offer a more desirable alternative.

  7. #157
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    He would kiss all republicans elected officials to try to get them to do what he wants

  8. #158
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    Speaking of town halls, Fox News stirred a bit of controversy this week, announcing that it will host a presidential town hall with democratic socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., on April 15. Fox News’ Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum will moderate the one-hour event live from Bethlehem, Pa., beginning at 6:30 p.m. ET.

  9. #159
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    Nope. I'm going back to the crux of the matter from the start. Biden can't beat Trump. He doesn't offer a more desirable alternative.
    derp

  10. #160
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    Speaking of town halls, Fox News stirred a bit of controversy this week, announcing that it will host a presidential town hall with democratic socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., on April 15. Fox News’ Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum will moderate the one-hour event live from Bethlehem, Pa., beginning at 6:30 p.m. ET.
    "democratic socialist"

    i can't believe people are backing an old, rich, white, cis male(lol) who turned his back on his whole base of ing re s to prop up satan herself. ing losers the whole lot of you bernout idiots.

  11. #161
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Trump has been the steward of the economy, not Obama. Only the partisans will be arguing in those margins.
    I was just gonna say...Obama? What Obama?

    The economy is doing well because of mah Trump. Then derp proves me right.
    He should and will claim credit for it, IMO, and that's proper. What I said stands though: from a political standpoint, it's much more salient to contrast the economic progress when you inherited a mess (an actual turnaround) than steady progress (basically, didn't it up).

    From a non-partisan standpoint, both have merit. From a political standpoint, a turnaround is a much easier sell.

  12. #162
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    The states with the highest incarceration rate per 100,000 adults (as of 2016) were Oklahoma, Louisiana, Missippi, Georgia, Alabama, Texas, Arizona Kentucky and Missouri, in that order. You got me, I CLEARLY want all those liberal states with a disproportionately high prison population getting more of a vote
    What do you want? Do you want prisoners to vote? Or only former felons?

    I am assuming that currently all states count prison population for representation - so if former felons in these conservative states vote, it will hardly matter as these states (except maybe GA) will go GOP anyways. It won't matter in either liberal or conservative states - just the swing states as always. Incarceration rates in FL (Number of people incarcerated per 100,000 people in that race/ethnic group):

    White - 626
    Hispanic - 536
    Black - 2555

    So if former felons vote (historically the way their race votes), then FL will swing DEM next election and it's unlikely Trump can win without FL (although he did last time).

  13. #163
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    That was always the crux of the matter that Joe can't offer an alternative (contrast) that voters desire. You think I'm just making random ass points otherwise?

    Psychopav Chump

  14. #164
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    He should and will claim credit for it, IMO, and that's proper. What I said stands though: from a political standpoint, it's much more salient to contrast the economic progress when you inherited a mess (an actual turnaround) than steady progress (basically, didn't it up).

    From a non-partisan standpoint, both have merit. From a political standpoint, a turnaround is a much easier sell.
    Obama had eight years in which the median income fell. That's why America rejected the next incarnation of him. People were not exceedingly happy with the economy when he was in. They're certainly not gonna care four years on about seeing him as the conductor. Rather, they see him as the jack ass talking about wands and trying to cuck America to the rest the world. MAGA train full speed ahead.

  15. #165
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    That was always the crux of the matter that Joe can't offer an alternative (contrast) that voters desire.
    derp

  16. #166
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It happened to Bush Sr because

    a) people were tired of 12 years of the GOP... they wanted something fresh
    b) Bush Sr lied about raising taxes and instead raised them in order to police the world... dumb dumb dumb
    c) Ross Perot

    12 years of the same party/policy is too much. 4 years is completely different.
    Yes, agree that in bency has a high price (although I would put an asterisk in that particular case since Reagan was extremely popular, but also ties to what I mentioned about being a war president).
    He was actually pretty mild when it came to wars, it was mostly cut and run on Iraq/Kuwait (which IMO was perfectly reasonable).

    Economically, he missed the dotcom boom by just a few years. Clinton ended up getting credit for that, but could've happened to anybody. That's why the whole economics swings thing is not something you can count on this early in the cycle, IMO.

    I agree, and it's going to have to mean at some point appealing to Hispanics.

    Latinos have socially conservative values and are usually more capitalistic than socialistic, but the immigration thing has burned the GOP badly, because it's painted them as racist and anti-Latino. However we can't just let everyone from Latin America in. Cesar Chavez advocated that the Hispanics already in the USA should be protected from compe ion by closing off most immigration. The theory that if there are 5 job seekers to a job it would be worse for Hispanics than if there were 2 job seekers to a job. It makes perfect sense and the GOP must stress examples like this, plus cater to the social conservatism.
    Completely agree that latinos are there for the taking for the GOP, the issue is that they keep shooting themselves in the foot mostly to appease the same aging, largely white, rural population that's giving them diminishing returns.

    Another sector that they could probably easily grab is Asian and Asian-Americans, a fast growing population segment generally more conservative also.

  17. #167
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Obama had eight years in which the median income fell. That's why America rejected the next incarnation of him. People were not exceedingly happy with the economy when he was in. They're certainly not gonna care four years on about seeing him as the conductor. Rather, they see him as the jack ass talking about wands and trying to cuck America to the rest the world. MAGA train full speed ahead.
    I don't need to defend Barry's economics, tbh, he inherited a depression not seen in 80 years and turned it around. He won reelection over that and Obamacare fairly easily. The economic indicators when he walked in and walked out are night and day (despite any pointed criticism in specific areas).

    I also do agree that in bency has a high price (although I don't think that's entirely why Shillary lost, she was just a very unlikeable candidate).

    The point I'm making is that it's much easier to sell your economic prowess when you took over a country in the middle of a giant recession and leave office with decent to good economic indicators, etc, than getting a mildly vibrant economy and making it shine.

    That's not Trump's fault either, he didn't get to choose how he started.

  18. #168
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    Coping mechanism

  19. #169
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    I don't need to defend Barry's economics, tbh, he inherited a depression not seen in 80 years and turned it around. He won reelection over that and Obamacare fairly easily. The economic indicators when he walked in and walked out are night and day (despite any pointed criticism in specific areas).

    I also do agree that in bency has a high price (although I don't think that's entirely why Shillary lost, she was just a very unlikeable candidate).

    The point I'm making is that it's much easier to sell your economic prowess when you took over a country in the middle of a giant recession and leave office with decent to good economic indicators, etc, than getting a mildly vibrant economy and making it shine.

    That's not Trump's fault either, he didn't get to choose how he started.
    People give Obama some credit for steadying the economy whether he deserves it or not; but by that same token, they don't see him as the guy who took the economy next level. They see him as the guy who was weak on the border and who presided over a decreasing standard of living. It's just not gonna happen, Obama getting credit for Trump presiding over a good economy.

  20. #170
    Andrew Dufresmed Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Completely agree that latinos are there for the taking for the GOP, the issue is that they keep shooting themselves in the foot mostly to appease the same aging, largely white, rural population that's giving them diminishing returns.

    Another sector that they could probably easily grab is Asian and Asian-Americans, a fast growing population segment generally more conservative also.
    The thing is the religious rural white conservatives would still vote for the GOP over the Dems 100%. They like their land and don't care about urbanite stuff like climate change and welfare programs.

    I'm not so sure I agree about the Asians, though. The majority are located on the West Coast and Massachusetts and vote liberal because they are socially liberal. They value population control (2-3 kids tops per U.S. Asian couple) and generally other more liberal causes, in addition to being primarily non-religious.

  21. #171
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    crying derp

  22. #172
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    People give Obama some credit for steadying the economy whether he deserves it or not; but by that same token, they don't see him as the guy who took the economy next level. They see him as the guy who was weak on the border and who presided over a decreasing standard of living. It's just not gonna happen, Obama getting credit for Trump presiding over a good economy.
    Well, of course he'll get the credit, it was his administration, just like Trump will take credit now. That's perfectly understandable, even if en ies like the Fed have a much bigger role in those matters. Just like dubya took the bulk of the blame when went south, even if we can debate if it was entirely his fault or not. That's normally how these things work.

    Not sure who 'they' are up there, but Barry left government with around 50% of job approval rate (only Reagan and Clinton are recently on the same level), had a record number (at the time) of deportations, etc. If anything, I think conservatives in general were fairly upset how popular he was, IMO. (On a personal level I think he was pretty much a Wall Street sellout, but hey, everybody has their opinion).

    I keep circling back to popular vote, likeability, etc, because while it's not the decider of an election, it's much more complicated to win when you're consistently unpopular. Trump is a polarizing figure and his job approval in the first term so far ranks with the likes of Gerald Ford (a one termer), and while Democrats don't have much to show for anything right now, tbh, it's stuff that can't be waived off.

  23. #173
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    Well, of course he'll get the credit, it was his administration, just like Trump will take credit now. That's perfectly understandable, even if en ies like the Fed have a much bigger role in those matters. Just like dubya took the bulk of the blame when went south, even if we can debate if it was entirely his fault or not. That's normally how these things work.

    Not sure who 'they' are up there, but Barry left government with around 50% of job approval rate (only Reagan and Clinton are recently on the same level), had a record number (at the time) of deportations, etc. If anything, I think conservatives in general were fairly upset how popular he was, IMO. (On a personal level I think he was pretty much a Wall Street sellout, but hey, everybody has their opinion).

    I keep circling back to popular vote, likeability, etc, because while it's not the decider of an election, it's much more complicated to win when you're consistently unpopular. Trump is a polarizing figure and his job approval in the first term so far ranks with the likes of Gerald Ford (a one termer), and while Democrats don't have much to show for anything right now, tbh, it's stuff that can't be waived off.
    Giving credit to the fed.
    Academia BS point.

  24. #174
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    Giving credit to the fed.
    Do you know what the fed does?

  25. #175
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    Do you know what the fed does?
    Check for understanding

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