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If she gets pulled before she dies that that timelines hawkeye doesn't get the soul stone
feel like you keep missing the point. you are ing over that timeline by basically kidnapping one of their heroes.
having a new stark in the prime timeline at the expense of some alternate one.
of course, you might think " the other timelines, they're on their own" but the movie really showed the characters NOT taking that approach, hence returning the stones
If she gets pulled before she dies that that timelines hawkeye doesn't get the soul stone
think we're just gonna assume all the main characters (peter, ned, mj, flash) all got dusted, so they remain the same age.
Eh, except for Cap taking that approach.
But how did he show up as old man Cap in this time line if he started a new one...
Cap didn't take the approach of taking somebody away from one of the timelines he visited. He added himself to one of the timelines, lived there until he was an old man, presumably (though we don't know for sure) doing awesome Captain America-like things in that alternate timeline. Then, once he'd gotten old as , and the date for Endgame in the alternate timeline had past, he went back in time to the prime timeline, sat on a bench, had his talk with Sam and gave him the shield.
the russo brothers in the Q&A made it pretty clear imo that he time jumped again to wind up on that bench. but yeah they executed that poorly for dramatic effect
i read the russo brother's explanation that rogers jumps back to this realm at the end. so, unlike the "time travel" that takes place in most of the film, the time travel that rogers engages in the end is quite different. in this one, he does create an alternate timeline, with a version of peggy carter but not the actual peggy carter because the real peggy carter remains in the MCU timeline, unmarried to rogers.
But they didn't care about ing over the other timelines. Cap inserted himself in to Peggy's life, Thor stole another Thor's hammer, they let Loki steal the tesseract back, Nebula shot her 2014 self and Iron Man snapped 2014 Thanos and almost his entire army out of existence.
that doesnt over anybody except peggy's other husband. but we're on team cap anyway so that guy
cap took the hammer with him on his final time travel trip, presumably returning it to asgard along with the reality stone (still unclear how he injects that into jane, but different story)Thor stole another Thor's hammer,
oh, they definitely ed that up. but that's not from them not caring about ing over other timelines. and thats likely going to be the basis of the Loki spinoff series, considering he's otherwise dead in the prime timelinethey let Loki steal the tesseract back,
yeah i dont think they mind murdering thanos in every possible timeline. besides, 2014 thanos and 2014 thanos' army weren't exactly invited.Nebula shot her 2014 self and Iron Man snapped 2014 Thanos and almost his entire army out of existence.
they're all "real"
easier method is just to label the MCU timeline/universe that we are familiar with and call that one "prime"
so Prime peggy died of old age. but Prime steve went back and married alternate peggy. then at some point he decided to bounce back to Prime to give falcon the shield. he probably just adjusted his coordinates the way steve and cap jumped back further into the 70's without needing the landing pad
saw this on reddit
yes, they're all real but just different versions, with the exception of rogers, who marries the non-prime version of carter. it's up to each audience member to decide whether or not it's really "his peggy".
so there are basically 4 timelines we're concerned with
1) prime we know quite well...
2) the post GOTG1 timeline is the one where now thanos has abandoned (and subsequently dies). so that timeline continues with no thanos, so no fear of infinity gauntlet saga.
3) the post Avengers 1 timeline is likely going to be where the Loki series takes place. loki loses battle of new york but escapes with tesseract anyway. still, he lost the scepter/mind stone. unclear how this all affects the future
4) 1940's cap timeline. we have no clue what happens by and large, but cap looks like he's happy. probably solved hydra ahead of time, warned people about infinity stones, etc
i also don't think the russo brothers will ever really explain away how rogers got back. it's just what it is, i guess.
in that timeline, all we know is that he marries another peggy. for all we know, in that timeline, starks parents don't die either. the issues of determinism here get quite grey. to the point where rogers becomes quite different from the rogers that we knew because he has to make more complicated ethical choices.
well based on how heavy handed the movie was on this point, we can rule out the possibility that old man cap was living in the prime timeline all along and just made sure to visit the bench that day
that violates the rule they were pretty clear on
Then I will repeat myself again: how is taking the heroes from other timelines right before they die, in anyway a bad thing? Save Gamora and Thanos doesn't get The Soul Stone. Save Vision and Thanos doesn't get The Mind Stone. Saving Loki doesn't harm anybody. Saving Quicksilver doesn't harm anybody. Saving Iron Man and Black Widow doesn't harm anybody. There is one timeline where the snap is reversed. That was mentioned multiple times in Infinity War and multiple times in Endgame. The argument that saving those heroes will up other timelines holds no water.
indeed. that timeline could be all ed up or all roses.
but old man cap is still our prime cap and he seemed to be happy and at peace
what is weird for me, is that i was team cap all the way but the ending, although i can't begrudge him his right to be happy, tainted it just a tad. i actually became quite the stark fan in this film. what makes it harder is that peggy was just a crush, they hadn't even dated yet. if she had been his wife already, that would have been different for me. it's not as if he couldn't have been happy with someone else in this timeline. but i think the story was altered by evans decision to leave the franchise. they had to create a way for him to be out of the picture without killing him.
true for some of them. they did, for instance, "save" gamora by taking her out of a timeline where thanos would eventually sacrifice her for the soul stone. and i agree you could generally do that for vision as well.
saving ironman means you prevent him from doing the snap, which is no bueno. saving black widow means the good guys never wind up with the soul stone so they cant do the unsnap.
people are still debating mechanics of back to the future. we can do this for a while. time travel has paradoxes, inconsistencies, and ultimately the story has to make sense.
or they could have just killed him. but the peggy thing had been called back on so many times... if it was just a crush, he wouldnt have kept her picture with him at all times, years later, and she wouldnt have his picture on her desk in the 70's
Ah, I didn't read it. That makes sense
Did you even read my post? Why does it matter that other timelines will be ed up when Thanos is successfully defeated in one timeline? Who cares that other heroes will fail in other timelines when they are destined to fail anyway?
I am criticizing the time travel mechanics because they deserve to be criticized. Don't introduce time travel into the story, tell the audience that people can't be brought back from the dead, and then give no in-story justification why that is true.
It was weird to see CM not have a lot of screentime after all the build up to her appearance in EG
But it makes sense, it wouldn’t have felt earned in comparison to other characters
The movie makes zero sense and completely falls apart logically under the smallest bit of scrutiny. But it doesn’t matter, it’s a movie about talking raccoons and thunder gods, it’s not meant to be examined that deeply. The fan service is tons of fun. Better than Infinity War. Still the same boilerplate Marvel formula, for better or worse.
Even as a non fanboy, you have to respect their ability to go 11 years and 22 movies, keeping things consistently fun and reasonably coherent, and absolutely sticking the landing. It’s never been done before. Endgame should get the same congratulatory “you’re not even close to the best movie this year, or even in your own film series, but props for accomplishing the impossible” type Oscar sweep they gave to Return Of The King.
Will be interesting to see if they even try to top this in the next phase of films.
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