$22 Trillion in Debt.

[Will Hunting]

On the contrary. I got paid to learn 100x more about java and computer science at Bank of America than I did in 3 years of PAYING to study computer science at UNT. So, Bank of America was the far better educator.

College professors are mostly lazy old liberal white men who get TAs who make $10 an hour to do their dirty, boring work and get paid $250k to show up to what amounts to a part-time, easy job. I think the max salary for a university professor should be in the range of $80k + cost of living adjustment. It's hard to learn from a ty college course but you need that degree to get jobs so you've got to be real here.

No one with a PHD in anything business or STEM related is taking a job for $80k a year. They can go into the private sector and make several times that much. There's a reason they make $250k and it's not because the university just feels like being generous. The university is competing with the private sector for highly educated, intelligent people and needs to pay accordingly.

I'm all for changing the system that makes it impossible to get rid of a professor with tenure, but capping the salary of professors at $80k is moronic.

[Millennial_Messiah]

No one with a PHD in anything business or STEM related is taking a job for $80k a year. They can go into the private sector and make several times that much. There's a reason they make $250k and it's not because the university just feels like being generous. The university is competing with the private sector for highly educated, intelligent people and needs to pay accordingly.

I'm all for changing the system that makes it impossible to get rid of a professor with tenure, but capping the salary of professors at $80k is moronic.

First of all, you're talking about ~15% of university professors with the "business and STEM related" talk. You think the average PhD in English, History, or Art is making anything close to $80k in the private sector? You've got to be kidding.

Second of all, there isn't a huge market in the private sector for PhDs that aren't professional degrees (doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, dentists etc). A person with a PhD even in software engineering or data science makes about $10k/year more on average than someone with the same years of experience and just a bachelor's degree in the same subject. Master's degree, only around $5k/year more than a bachelor's in the tech industry and same years of experience. Keep in mind, you're also wasting precious years in your youth getting advanced degrees when you could be working collecting years of work experience which is far more valuable to recruiters.

No tech firm is paying an extra $50k or $100k to a skilled job candidate for having a PhD instead of a bachelor's or master's degree. That's ridiculous.

[Will Hunting]

First of all, you're talking about ~15% of university professors with the "business and STEM related" talk. You think the average PhD in English, History, or Art is making anything close to $80k in the private sector? You've got to be kidding.

Second of all, there isn't a huge market in the private sector for PhDs that aren't professional degrees (doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, dentists etc). A person with a PhD even in software engineering or data science makes about $10k/year more on average than someone with the same years of experience and just a bachelor's degree in the same subject. Master's degree, only around $5k/year more than a bachelor's in the tech industry and same years of experience. Keep in mind, you're also wasting precious years in your youth getting advanced degrees when you could be working collecting years of work experience which is far more valuable to recruiters.

No tech firm is paying an extra $50k or $100k to a skilled job candidate for having a PhD instead of a bachelor's or master's degree. That's ridiculous.

The History professors aren’t making $250k a year, they make a lot closer to $80k because that’s their market value. There aren’t history or art professors making $250k a year.

I also never said there’s a need for people with a PHD just because of the PHD either, I’m saying people with PHDs are more often than not intelligent and capable of performing at a high level in the private sector, which is why companies are interested in hiring them.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The History professors aren’t making $250k a year, they make a lot closer to $80k because that’s their market value. There aren’t history or art professors making $250k a year.

I also never said there’s a need for people with a PHD just because of the PHD either, I’m saying people with PHDs are more often than not intelligent and capable of performing at a high level in the private sector, which is why companies are interested in hiring them.

See that's the thing, the vast majority of big name public and private universities have a flat (huge) salary for professors across all subjects in the university, tiered only based on tenure/years of experience and le ("Senior Professor" > "Professor" > "Lecturer" > "Adjunct", etc, each tier up gets a substantial raise) but the reason it costs $30K a year to go to a basic in-state state public school is because the salaries usually aren't determined by subject and department, and they all get healthy double-inflationary raises every year, so as an in-state public university student you pay $30K/year (and rising; including room and board) regardless if you're an art major, history major, humanities major, African studies major, hospitality major, English-Spanish dual major, business major, math major, or CS/software engineering major.

If your first paragraph was true, tuition and fees would be much cheaper for arts and humanities majors, but they aren't so it isn't.

[Pavlov]

See that's the thing, the vast majority of big name public and private universities have a flat (huge) salary for professors across all subjects in the university, tiered only based on tenure/years of experience and le ("Senior Professor" > "Professor" > "Lecturer" > "Adjunct", etc, each tier up gets a substantial raise) but the reason it costs $30K a year to go to a basic in-state state public school is because the salaries usually aren't determined by subject and department, and they all get healthy double-inflationary raises every year, so as an in-state public university student you pay $30K/year (and rising; including room and board) regardless if you're an art major, history major, humanities major, African studies major, hospitality major, English-Spanish dual major, business major, math major, or CS/software engineering major.

If your first paragraph was true, tuition and fees would be much cheaper for arts and humanities majors, but they aren't so it isn't.

Where are the $10,000,000+ deans and the $5,000,000+ UNT dean again?

[Will Hunting]

See that's the thing, the vast majority of big name public and private universities have a flat (huge) salary for professors across all subjects in the university, tiered only based on tenure/years of experience and le ("Senior Professor" > "Professor" > "Lecturer" > "Adjunct", etc, each tier up gets a substantial raise) but the reason it costs $30K a year to go to a basic in-state state public school is because the salaries usually aren't determined by subject and department, and they all get healthy double-inflationary raises every year, so as an in-state public university student you pay $30K/year (and rising; including room and board) regardless if you're an art major, history major, humanities major, African studies major, hospitality major, English-Spanish dual major, business major, math major, or CS/software engineering major.

If your first paragraph was true, tuition and fees would be much cheaper for arts and humanities majors, but they aren't so it isn't.

You're simply wrong. This is easily verifiable:

https://facultysenate.unt.edu/sites/..._4-1-2018.xlsx

Here is the average pay for all professors (associate, assistant, etc.) by department:

Accounting $179,387.12 Fin, Insur, Real Estate & Law $159,720.82 Mktng, Logistics, & Operations $145,439.71 Info Tech & Decision Sci $144,153.04 Management $139,215.40 Materials Science & Engineer $134,177.71 Chemistry $130,052.25 Electrical Engineering $123,990.06 Computer Science & Engineering $123,709.25 Biological Sciences $121,777.73 Economics $117,593.08 Engineering Technology $113,144.45 International Studies $112,735.68 Mechanical & Energy Engineer $107,080.65 Physics $105,305.24 Political Science $105,184.26 Psychology $98,174.08 Conducting & Ensembles $97,058.69 Information Science $95,979.37 Audiology & Speech - Lang Path $93,851.19 Learning Technologies $93,746.60 Kinesiolgy, Hlth Promo, & Rec $91,525.32 Mathematics $90,250.93 Merch & Digital Retailing $88,492.40 Criminal Justice $88,492.32 Media Arts $88,433.13 Instrumental Studies $87,895.34 History $87,004.53 Public Admin $86,684.08 Keyboard Studies $86,241.32 Philosophy & Religion $84,700.88 Technical Communication $84,273.76 Sociology $83,865.76 Geography $83,845.11 Hospitality & Tourism $83,204.99 Educational Psychology $82,858.69 Anthropology $82,434.14 World Lang, Lit, & Cultures $82,179.51 Rehabilitation and Health Serv $81,420.38 Teacher Education & Admin $81,335.15 Dance & Theatre $81,129.65 Vocal Studies $80,707.86 Mayborn Sch of Journal-Gen $80,244.83 Linguistics $80,190.31 Counseling & Higher Education $79,696.30 English $79,167.00 Composition Studies $78,163.61 Jazz Studies $78,061.19 Design $77,363.86 Spanish $77,055.69 Music Hist, Thry, & Ethnomusic $74,899.14 Studio Art $74,022.13 Art Education & Art History $72,758.61 Music Education $71,741.11

You're basically wrong in every respect. The average accounting professor making more than 2x the average music education professor isn't solely due tenure and years of experience.

None of them average even close to $250k either, but we knew that was bull .

[Millennial_Messiah]

You're simply wrong. This is easily verifiable:

https://facultysenate.unt.edu/sites/..._4-1-2018.xlsx

Here is the average pay for all professors (associate, assistant, etc.) by department:

Accounting $179,387.12 Fin, Insur, Real Estate & Law $159,720.82 Mktng, Logistics, & Operations $145,439.71 Info Tech & Decision Sci $144,153.04 Management $139,215.40 Materials Science & Engineer $134,177.71 Chemistry $130,052.25 Electrical Engineering $123,990.06 Computer Science & Engineering $123,709.25 Biological Sciences $121,777.73 Economics $117,593.08 Engineering Technology $113,144.45 International Studies $112,735.68 Mechanical & Energy Engineer $107,080.65 Physics $105,305.24 Political Science $105,184.26 Psychology $98,174.08 Conducting & Ensembles $97,058.69 Information Science $95,979.37 Audiology & Speech - Lang Path $93,851.19 Learning Technologies $93,746.60 Kinesiolgy, Hlth Promo, & Rec $91,525.32 Mathematics $90,250.93 Merch & Digital Retailing $88,492.40 Criminal Justice $88,492.32 Media Arts $88,433.13 Instrumental Studies $87,895.34 History $87,004.53 Public Admin $86,684.08 Keyboard Studies $86,241.32 Philosophy & Religion $84,700.88 Technical Communication $84,273.76 Sociology $83,865.76 Geography $83,845.11 Hospitality & Tourism $83,204.99 Educational Psychology $82,858.69 Anthropology $82,434.14 World Lang, Lit, & Cultures $82,179.51 Rehabilitation and Health Serv $81,420.38 Teacher Education & Admin $81,335.15 Dance & Theatre $81,129.65 Vocal Studies $80,707.86 Mayborn Sch of Journal-Gen $80,244.83 Linguistics $80,190.31 Counseling & Higher Education $79,696.30 English $79,167.00 Composition Studies $78,163.61 Jazz Studies $78,061.19 Design $77,363.86 Spanish $77,055.69 Music Hist, Thry, & Ethnomusic $74,899.14 Studio Art $74,022.13 Art Education & Art History $72,758.61 Music Education $71,741.11

You're basically wrong in every respect. The average accounting professor making more than 2x the average music education professor isn't solely due tenure and years of experience.

None of them average even close to $250k either, but we knew that was bull .

then tell me why tuition and fees are the same for every major?

[Pavlov]

then tell me why tuition and fees are the same for every major?

In part because it's all subsidized by the state.

You ever get those eight figure deans' salaries?

[Will Hunting]

then tell me why tuition and fees are the same for every major?

That doesn't address anything I said.

Are you telling me that the numbers I just quoted from UNT itself are wrong

[Millennial_Messiah]

That doesn't address anything I said.

Are you telling me that the numbers I just quoted from UNT itself are wrong

tell me why tuition, fees, and room and board goes up by damn near 10% every year?

[Will Hunting]

tell me why tuition, fees, and room and board goes up by damn near 10% every year?

Answer my question first, you do this all the time where you talk out of your ass and then change the subject. Are you saying the numbers I quoted are wrong?

[Pavlov]

tell me why tuition, fees, and room and board goes up by damn near 10% every year?

It's certainly not because of your made up salary numbers.

Why did you lie so hard about those?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Answer my question first, you do this all the time where you talk out of your ass and then change the subject. Are you saying the numbers I quoted are wrong?

no, I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there, but I guess they were wrong

but answer my new question now

[spurraider21]

I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there

[Will Hunting]

no, I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there, but I guess they were wrong

but answer my new question now

So you overheard something and assumed it was true which led to you talking out of your ass. Glad we agree.

Tuition goes up because when state funding is cut tuition is what's needed to bridge the gap. It's not like there's a slush fund where your tuition dollars get used by the faculty to throw parties with hookers and cocaine.

[Pavlov]

no, I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there, but I guess they were wrong

but answer my new question now

If you guesstimated that means you're wrong, not your fantasy eavesdropping subjects.

Which is it?

[Millennial_Messiah]

So you overheard something and assumed it was true which led to you talking out of your ass. Glad we agree.

Tuition goes up because when state funding is cut tuition is what's needed to bridge the gap. It's not like there's a slush fund where your tuition dollars get used by the faculty to throw parties with hookers and cocaine.

well yeah, state funding is why UNT is $25K and Baylor is $55K a year. But what explains why UT Austin is $32K and UH-Galveston is $20K? How about Prairie View A&M's $17K?

[Will Hunting]

Also, I know schools like Alabama make money on football, but UNT is a great example of a school that burned through tens of millions of dollars on a new stadium even though they have a football program that's never going to be a reliable source of revenue.

[Will Hunting]

well yeah, state funding is why UNT is $25K and Baylor is $55K a year. But what explains why UT Austin is $32K and UH-Galveston is $20K? How about Prairie View A&M's $17K?

Now you're just bouncing all over the place. First it was why does tuition not differ by major within the same school, then it was why do tuition prices keep going up, now you're asking why tuition differs so much between schools.

State funding was my answer with respect to why tuition at the same school keeps going up every year, which is a completely different question than why is tuition different at each school.

Do you really think state funding means that every public university should have the same tuition price?

[Pavlov]

Also, I know schools like Alabama make money on football, but UNT is a great example of a school that burned through tens of millions of dollars on a new stadium even though they have a football program that's never going to be a reliable source of revenue.

You'll get no argument from me on athletics, but you're changing the subject yet again.

[Will Hunting]

You'll get no argument from me on athletics, but you're changing the subject yet again.

I'm answer his question as to why tuition prices keep going up. 50 years ago schools like UNT weren't blowing millions of dollars trying become a football powerhouse.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Also, I know schools like Alabama make money on football, but UNT is a great example of a school that burned through tens of millions of dollars on a new stadium even though they have a football program that's never going to be a reliable source of revenue.

Especially since Fouts Field was actually on-campus and it was just perfectly fine.

Also the new UNT Union project was equally as bad, if not worse, than the Apogee project. At least the old UNT Union looked like a union. The new UNT Union, established in late 2015, resembles a small shopping mall. No fun, no home-campus feeling, no central gathering space like the old UNT union had.

(Then again, I was in Columbus last August for work and went in OSU's union and it was actually very similar to UNT's new shopping-mall union, almost identical except with red colors instead of green and difference in restaurants.)

[Pavlov]

I'm answer his question as to why tuition prices keep going up. 50 years ago schools like UNT weren't blowing millions of dollars trying become a football powerhouse.

Yeah, I'm totally onboard with that. I thought he was posting that for some reason, but I see it was too logical and reasonable to be him.

[Pavlov]

Especially since Fouts Field was actually on-campus and it was just perfectly fine.

Also the new UNT Union project was equally as bad, if not worse, than the Apogee project. At least the old UNT Union looked like a union. The new UNT Union, established in late 2015, resembles a small shopping mall. No fun, no home-campus feeling, no central gathering space like the old UNT union had.

(Then again, I was in Columbus last August for work and went in OSU's union and it was actually very similar to UNT's new shopping-mall union, almost identical except with red colors instead of green and difference in restaurants.)

The union actually benefits and attracts students of all kinds, so aesthetics aside....

[Spurminator]

If we had a Democrat President, the Tea Party and Freedom Caucus would be all over this instead of rallying to protect the President from having bad things said about him.