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What is the precedent of buying out contracts like that? Does it still count against the cap in the same way? I understand it's happened for international players before, like Macijauskas, just don't know the costs.
I think the two events are somewhat interconnected. If the Spurs work out a contract agreement with Scola over the summer, that will free up a spot with Tau and should give Fab a place to go back to once a buyout is worked out.
What is the precedent of buying out contracts like that? Does it still count against the cap in the same way? I understand it's happened for international players before, like Macijauskas, just don't know the costs.
What about this team for 2007-2008:
1. TP-JV-rookie or FA
2. Barry-Manu
3. Bowen-Finley
4. TD-Bonner- Scola or Oberto
5. FE-Rookie or FA
I keep trying to fit white on this team but it just doesnt look good for him to make the team next year (possible reserve next year again)
yavo- I think Barry is gone this summer. Just my gut. With one year left on his contract and some appeal, I think he's gone.
That said, even if he stays it looks about right for now, although as sketchy as we can imagine, not knowing who will be drafted, etc.
As I've said before, I think there will be two pretty good rookies coming in, and one of those could be Scola. But my gut also says Scola will be somewhere else next year (in the NBA).
There is still room for White in your run-down, if at the end of the bench.
Yea, I agree with Body on that, Im pretty sure that Barry will be gone, leaving room for Fin dog to move back to sg, thus clearing up a spot for White to get some minutes (barring who we draft). I agree with Tony about the 2 international sgs coming out, and I really like Bellineli, although I have seen some mocks with him going pretty high. I also reallly hope that we get rid of Oberto, and I am hoping that Butler will step up in the off season and claim those minute, so that we dont nessecarily have to draft a big (although a young pf would be nice). Lets just hope we get at least one rookie in this years draft that can contribute immediately
The question is, who does Barry go for? I'm not sure. There will be a lot of players jarring loose from various teams the Spurs might take a look at. Pietrus is one of several odd-men-out in GS, Nocioni looks more likely to change addresses this summer than he did a few months ago, and Gerald Wallace might walk away from Charlotte. I still think Chicago is a very good fit for Scola, and think he will be traded.
So... the old Barry+Udrih package? Barry+Butler? Barry+Scola?
I think the Spurs will be determined to move up in the draft and think they'll try to bundle up their first with Scola, like usual, and maybe even put the Milwaukee pick in there with it.
How much would you guys let go in order to get Corey Brewer/other? First round+Scola+Milwaukee? First round+Scola+Milwaukee+future first? How much will it take?
How about First round+Scola+future first, draft Brewer, then Derrick Byars falls to the Milwaukee pick? What do you think?
The reasons I don't see Barry getting traded:
1. He has the ability to shoot 3s and can handle the ball very well. Don't forget, the Spurs were waivering on giving him up fo Corey Maggette because they valued these attributes so much.
2. He is a $6M expiring contract. The Spurs have been hesitant to offer big, long-term contracts ostensibly to be in a position to bid more than the MLE for a potential free agent in 2008. It won't be loads of money, but whoever the Spurs get in return for Barry would likely be diminishing that figure for 2008.
3. Who is a trading partner and what do the Spurs get in return for dishing Barry?
I just think that Barry still holds value as a player and as a contract.
I really think that a team like the Cavs would love a package of Brent and Beno, they could use both of those guys badly. Get back a guy like Pavlovic. Varejao will also be a fa, and he is definately a guy I would like to see the Spurs go after, he probably wont be too expensive, and we could use him.
Or maybe the same package to a team like the Hawks who could use both guys for someone like CHildress. Even Detroit would be a team that could use those guys, who knows, but there are definately teams that could use a true point and a 3 point specialist
I don't really trust those mock drafts because they're based on a talent-level evaluation rather than team needs. I also think there is some disparity between the websites on a few players, so it's hard to tell where their stock is. The reason I like Chad Ford's top 100 is that it gives a general range for players to be taken in. Here's the list of SGs in/around the area of Belinelli/Fernandez:
Nick Young
Brandon Rush
Rodney Stuckey
Dequan Cook
Trey Johnson
Morris Almond
Young, Rush, and Stuckey were classified in the "Mid-Late First Round" and the rest (INCLUDING BELINELLI AND FERNANDEZ) were classified in the "Late First, Early Second" category. There's still alot to be determined as far a who will declare and even then there are pre-draft camps, individual workouts, etc.
Those things can change a player's draft stock significantly...especially with certain teams. Some teams will value Almond's size, others will value Stuckey's versatility, others Young's moxy, others Rush's defense...and on and on.
It'll be interesting to see, but I think it's possible one of those two falls to, or near, the Spurs.
You can say as much as you want that Beno/Butler will be traded this summer but for the moment they are under contract for the next year with a guaranteed contract.
You can imagine a lot of scenario where they are traded but facts are that under contract and that Spurs have tried to trade them without success at the deadline. Even if in some fantasy offseason plan, it's nice to dump them to open a roster spot, the reality is that there is a good chance to see them with a Spurs jersey next year.
The only for sure guys I see being moved are beno and butler. Possible that scola could be moved if no agreement is reached. Unlikely that barry is going anywhere. Of the 4-5 draft picks I only see the spurs using 2 for players and the 2-3 used on trades. If unable to find takers for a trade they will simply draft someone we have never heard of and develop those players overseas.
Well put Bruno. It's easy to see alot of these trade scenarios, but it's unrealistic to make predictions about future rosters based on them being traded or cut.
Of course they are, but there has been interest in Udrih in the past, and a smattering for Butler. They're both very inexpensive contract-wise and especially in the case of Beno, it will be addition by subtraction. There are teams out there that badly, badly need PGs, such as Atlanta and LAC, with Cassell done and Livingston perhaps out all next year. Beno is a decent option for at least a back-up and I'm sure the Clippers would have traded for a guy like him if Livingston blew out his knee a week earlier. Are we placing money here that he'll be traded? No. Are we guessing what team he'd be traded to? No. But some of us are speculating a high chance he gets moved. Not for much, but moved. No one is predicting the future, but we're guessing what might happen.
Why "for sure" on Beno? If the Spurs don't have a third PG in the fold, why would they trade/cut Beno, who is a cheap third option? Again, if they wanted to trade/cut him, they had plenty of opportunity to do so at the deadline....obviously they don't want to get rid of him and get nothing in return. IMO, a 2009 second rounder won't do it.
There is a decent chance Beno stays on the roster, sure, but I believe the Spurs are committed to finding another home for him. He's simply not working here. They could hang on to him for the deadline.
Your thoughts on Barry are pretty good. I wonder if the Spurs will take on salary in order to get their future SF starter, or how tenacious and exclusive this whole 2008 Plan is.
Ok, good point. Nothing is for sure, I should have said "probable". I say this cause Beno is to be payed 1.7 mil next year and vaughn has proven his worth this year as back up pg for 1 mill. If we can resign JV for 1.25 or 1.5 and get a young pg through the draft or FA then this free's up cash for other positions such SF or C. I just do not see the spurs doubling up Beno's contract the way he played this year and if it takes a 2nd rd pick in 2009 this so be it.
I think we'll see how tenacious and exclusive this 2008 plan is during this upcoming off-season. If the Spurs use part or all of their mid-level (especially to bring Scola over) and give Bonner an new contract at a higher price, then I would expect them to make more moves. If they aren't going to be more than $5M over, then it's more advantageous to be over the cap come 2008....then they'll at least get the MLE. We'll see....
On Beno, I'm not saying that the Spurs won't change their position on him, especially if they're able to snag a decent replacement via the draft or FA....but last I heard, the Spurs were not giving up Beno for nothing (aka late second rounder).
I've done and seen a lot of people doing offseason plans and the main conclusion was that they were almost more trades in a "fantasy" offseason plan than in the real offseason.
Take Butler or Beno case : I agree with you that it seems that they are a waste of roster spot. I agree with you that some teams could be interested by them because they are young and with cheap expiring contracts. I agree with you that they should be traded. But will they ? Trading them is easier on a message board than in reality. Spurs will have to find a team that like them and that offer something Spurs like for them, not that easy. I'm not saying that they won't be traded but it's a reach to say that Spurs will have an extra roster spot because they will be gone.
BTW, Hawks still have 3 PGs better than Beno (Lue, Johnson and Speedy) : I don't see them being interested in another PG if he hasn't the talent to be a good starting PG.
The only thing I'll add is that your evalution, or mine, or Mr. Body's, or anyone else not in a position to determine the future of players currently on the Spurs roster, is irrelevant. It's fun to play "If I were Spurs GM for a day", but in reality, we just have to roll with whatever decisions the Spurs make and hope for the best.
Having said that....if the Spurs don't get Rudy Fernandez and Dominic McGuire with the first two picks, sign Scola, re-up Bonner, get rid of Oberto/Beno, develop Butler & White, and sign a decent FA in 2008....I will be pissed, b/c that's what I'd do!
Now we get to what this thread is about! The only problem I'd see with your plan is that McGuire IMO pulls out if he's headed for the second round. Maybe we can hope for a boneheaded move and he stays in, thinking he's going in the 20s? I'll take Byars if that doesn't happen.
Word to your turd, Byars is the best option at where we are going to pick, and he very well might slip into the early second round if someone better falls to us in the 1st. He could be the Bowen replacment with a MUCH better offensive game. With that said, I really hope the Spurs make a run at Verajao in the offseason, he would be a perfect fit.
Last edited by mardigan; 04-02-2007 at 02:33 PM.
I think he's already got one foot in the door with his initial interest, and he's likely to have some really good workouts....so I think he'll be persuaded to sign an agent and make it official even without a guarantee. What does he really have to go back to...Fresno State?
The other note is that the Spurs have a top 3/4 second round pick...it's not like he'd fall drastically.
On the topic of guys declaring but not hiring agents....is this something that's happening alot more often of late, or is it just getting more publicity? IMO, it actually hurts the player's stock to be so non-commital and not to have a person that can "sell" you to prospective teams. Granted an agent will fill their heads with bull , but they might actually be able to back it up.
I have nothing against the "I'm a GM game". My point was more that a real GM has more constraints than a fantasy GM. If you do a fantasy offseason plan with tons of moves/trades, it's not really realistic.
It's possible that Varajao's stock has fallen post-deadline, but he was deemed by Cavs FO at that point to be "untouchable". He's a restricted free agent and I would think that any deal for less than the mid-level will see them match.
IMO, the Spurs should focus their efforts on getting a high-energy guy with much more offensive game than Varajao....his name is Luis Scola
Here is a pretty cool article from SI.com about the international prospects in this years draft
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...cts/index.html
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