Bernie's Medicare for All Act

[Spurtacular]

You can argue that single-payer is not the solution, that's valid. We can discuss that. Throwing 'free market' is also valid, except that Medicare/Medicaid didn't exist forever.

We already had a 'free market' system before Medicaid and Medicare (and even Social Security), and Medicaid/Medicare/SS were actually invented to solve actual problems that the free market couldn't tackle.

That's because the healthcare market, much like the retirement market, isn't your average economic market. At some point, the people in that market stop earning money, and depending on how they did in life, or what kind of events happened throughout their life (through fault of their own or not), they ended up with more or less money, and thus more or less access to care or anything else.

I love the free market, and I think it makes sense in almost every scenario where you have a relatively stable market. When it's not stable, you end up with access problems (that is, only the section of the market that's profitable gets the service). This is common sense capitalism, and why the government had to intervene in a bunch of markets to ensure access (another good example of this is the Universal Service fund in telecommunications).

At some point there's a state interest in the people having access to some of these services. That sometimes conflicts with the profit motive. It's a real issue that, especially on healthcare, simply has to be addressed by whatever solution.

Honestly, I respect the amount of thought you put into this (and many of your posts); but I don't think you get that health care has become a ponzi scheme even for as relatively great as it is. What the govt. wants is to make even more and provide even less. This has been the trend, too, if you haven't noticed.

[ElNono]

Honestly, I respect the amount of thought you put into this (and many of your posts); but I don't think you get that health care has become a ponzi scheme even for as relatively great as it is. What the govt. wants is to make even more and provide even less. This has been the trend, too, if you haven't noticed.

I have zero expectations that the current crop of politicos or special interests will sit down and do what's best for the American people. It's unfortunate. Most of the healthcare systems worldwide slowly moved to universal healthcare post WWII, where there was still an ounce of common sense, some political decency remaining, etc.

Frankly, at some point it's going to have to be addressed. Cost rises in the US at a much, much larger pace than everywhere else: either the US has a scam going on, or we're subsidizing other systems. Regardless of what it is, it's going to come to a head at some point. The discussions always seem to center around benefits, but never about cost, and until we tackle both, we're just kicking the can forward, IMO.

[boutons_deux]

"either the US has a scam going on, or we're subsidizing other systems"

both. the entire BigFinance and BigHealthCare are rackets, thieving rackets.

Other countries' "single buyer" for drugs and devices keeps their prices way down, a fraction of US prices.

Repug s plus a few Dem s voted to block importation of BigPharma drugs and devices behind the lie of safety.

Nothing's going to get better, cheaper because the $3T US health racket, shakedown, extortion owns more than enough politicians, who are relatively cheap compared to the $Bs available to buy their legislative votes.

The ROI for anybody "investing" in corrupting, bribing politicians is 100s of %.

[z0sa]

Ironic; this is going way over your head. Old people would obviously be the biggest market with companies having to compete for all those savings. Again, 's not that hard.

Jesus.

This is a great example of why single payer STILL isnt anywhere close.

[SnakeBoy]

Honestly, I respect the amount of thought you put into this (and many of your posts); but I don't think you get that health care has become a ponzi scheme even for as relatively great as it is. What the govt. wants is to make even more and provide even less. This has been the trend, too, if you haven't noticed.

How is health care a ponzi scheme?

[RandomGuy]

Haven't seen any mention of it on here.

Do the board liberals support it?

Unreservedly. Great idea.

[Spurtacular]

Jesus.

This is a great example of why single payer STILL isnt anywhere close.

Single payer is not the answer. Americans are too greedy for it to ever be anything but a sandwich. We are stupid for trying to adapt to the ways of smaller, geneous, socialist societies like Switzerland.

[Spurtacular]

How is health care a ponzi scheme?

Let's see you're paying through the mouth for years in advance for benefits that are not guaranteed or accounted for. When you're done doing it, you have no account balance and you still have to pay as if all your paying did nothing. The govt. prosecutes businesses for doing that type of ; but for them it's okay.

[SnakeBoy]

Let's see you're paying through the mouth for years in advance for benefits that are not guaranteed or accounted for. When you're done doing it, you have no account balance and you still have to pay as if all your paying did nothing. The govt. prosecutes businesses for doing that type of ; but for them it's okay.

Oh ok. You meant health insurance not healthcare.

[Spurtacular]

Oh ok. You meant health insurance not healthcare.

Sure; though, they're pretty much intertwined even now.

[Will Hunting]

Sure; though, they're pretty much intertwined even now.

so your blaming he government for private health insurance policies being a Ponzi scheme? Conservative logic in a nuts .

[Spurtacular]

so your blaming he government for private health insurance policies being a Ponzi scheme? Conservative logic in a nuts .

Of course, the govt. is the one who ins uted/mandated coverage from these companies in the first place. This isn't hard , bro.

[Will Hunting]

Of course, the govt. is the one who ins uted/mandated coverage from these companies in the first place. This isn't hard , bro.

So you think private health insurance wasn't a rip off until Obamacare

[Spurtacular]

So you think private health insurance wasn't a rip off until Obamacare

Very shortly before Obamacare, politicians were talking about healthcare being one-sixth of the economy (too high). Before it was even voted in, they were talking about health care being one-fifth of the economy. You do the math, genius.

[Will Hunting]

Very shortly before Obamacare, politicians were talking about healthcare being one-sixth of the economy (too high). Before it was even voted in, they were talking about health care being one-fifth of the economy. You do the math, genius.

So you're in agreement that healthcare was already a cluster prior to Obamacare? I don't understand how that statistic helps your argument.

[Spurtacular]

So you're in agreement that healthcare was already a cluster prior to Obamacare? I don't understand how that statistic helps your argument.

Healthcare costs inflated just on the pretext of Obamacare, dude. Not hard stuff to figure out.