Bargnani?

[SenorSpur]

Well, I'm not a fan at all of Spurs adding Bargnani. I'm more in "a desperate time, desperate answer" state of mind.

Clearly, he would be a step back. The Spurs need talented, physical bigs with size, skill and hunger. Personally, I'd rather they go young and stay away from the veteran frontcourt player - especially one who is admittedly lazy.

[TJastal]

Bargnani would be an awesome pickup. For the simple fact that (in theory anyway) Pop would use him instead of Bonner for "spreading the floor".

And as far as his lack of rebounding, it's not that big of deal IMO when you consider the other things he brings to the table. He's 7' tall and can help protect the paint which is the most important thing. And he can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court. Timmy can handle most of the rebounding duties plus Splitter/Blair off the bench would help shore up the slack. I would love to see this guy starting alongside Timmy next season and would even trade Parker in order to get him.

[Mel_13]

Bargnani would be an awesome pickup. For the simple fact that (in theory anyway) Pop would use him instead of Bonner for "spreading the floor".

And as far as his lack of rebounding, it's not that big of deal IMO when you consider the other things he brings to the table. He's 7' tall and can help protect the paint which is the most important thing. And he can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court. Timmy can handle most of the rebounding duties plus Splitter/Blair off the bench would help shore up the slack. I would love to see this guy starting alongside Timmy next season and would even trade Parker in order to get him.

[TJastal]

So I'm guessing you'd rather see another year of Bonner getting 20 minutes a game, and Blair starting because Bonner can't be paired with him.

[Mel_13]

So I'm guessing you'd rather see another year of Bonner getting 20 minutes a game, and Blair starting because Bonner can't be paired with him.

I know you can't be bothered to do any research on your own, but could you at least read what other posters have provided to you in this thread?

I've reached the conclusion that you have no interest in any reasonable conversation about basketball and are simply trolling for reactions.

[TJastal]

I know you can't be bothered to do any research on your own, but could you at least read what other posters have provided to you in this thread?

I've reached the conclusion that you have no interest in any reasonable conversation about basketball and are simply trolling for reactions.

Maybe if you actually provided a clue to whatever it is that is lodged up your asshole I could respond in kind. There are literally dozens of viewpoints on Bargnani am I supposed to guess here?

[024]

No, on many different levels. However, like all trades, if it gets rid of Jefferson and bonner, i approve.

[Mel_13]

Maybe if you actually provided a clue to whatever it is that is lodged up your asshole I could respond in kind. There are literally dozens of viewpoints on Bargnani am I supposed to guess here?

Seriously? You couln't detect clear and obvious themes from the posts in this thread? I'll make easy for you.

He's an historically bad rebounder. Not just below average. Historically bad. Facts have been provided.

He does not give good effort. That's in his own words.

He does not provide rim protection. Look up his block numbers and find out what has been written about him by the Toronto press. You can find this on the Raptors official website:

Which brings us to Bargnani who is seven feet tall. I once asked Chris Bosh if Bargnani could pull down 10 boards a game. He looked at me like I had two heads. “He’s seven feet tall,” he said. (He averaged 5.2 rpg in 35.7 mpg last season)

You can call Bargnani a centre all you like. He can give you pretty good on-the-ball defence and a few blocks but he views the backboard like it’s made of poison ivy. And while he has pledged to improve, Bargnani treats weak-side defence as if it were invented by the Athenians.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/ulmer_blog/2011/may

Your assertion that "can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court" does not hold up to even a cursory fact check (unless 34.5% from beyond the arc is lights out). For example, he does not shoot as well the current stretch 4 on the Spurs roster. (Which isn't much of sin, since the in bent shoots so well, but Bargnani REBOUNDS WORSE THAN MATT BONNER. There's simply no excuse for a player with his physical gifts to be the worst rebounding big in the NBA)

When his trade kicker is factored in, he will be owed almost 44M over the next 4 years.

AND beyond all that, you think it would be a good idea to trade Tony Parker to acquire this vastly overpaid underachiever.

[jjktkk]

Maybe if you actually provided a clue to whatever it is that is lodged up your asshole I could respond in kind. There are literally dozens of viewpoints on Bargnani am I supposed to guess here?

Contradict yourself much? One clue, is you and moan about Pop overusing Bonner, but You would be happy acquiring another soft, stretch 4, who doesn't play up to his height, nor rebound, and admitted hes lazy?

[TJastal]

Seriously? You couln't detect clear and obvious themes from the posts in this thread? I'll make easy for you.

He's an historically bad rebounder. Not just below average. Historically bad. Facts have been provided.

He does not give good effort. That's in his own words.

He does not provide rim protection. Look up his block numbers and find out what has been written about him by the Toronto press. You can find this on the Raptors official website:

Which brings us to Bargnani who is seven feet tall. I once asked Chris Bosh if Bargnani could pull down 10 boards a game. He looked at me like I had two heads. “He’s seven feet tall,” he said. (He averaged 5.2 rpg in 35.7 mpg last season)

You can call Bargnani a centre all you like. He can give you pretty good on-the-ball defence and a few blocks but he views the backboard like it’s made of poison ivy. And while he has pledged to improve, Bargnani treats weak-side defence as if it were invented by the Athenians.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/ulmer_blog/2011/may

Your assertion that "can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court" does not hold up to even a cursory fact check (unless 34.5% from beyond the arc is lights out). For example, he does not shoot as well the current stretch 4 on the Spurs roster. (Which isn't much of sin, since the in bent shoots so well, but Bargnani REBOUNDS WORSE THAN MATT BONNER. There's simply no excuse for a player with his physical gifts to be the worst rebounding big in the NBA)

When his trade kicker is factored in, he will be owed almost 44M over the next 4 years.

AND beyond all that, you think it would be a good idea to trade Tony Parker to acquire this vastly overpaid underachiever.

Already addressed the rebounding issue. For someone so butthurt about my lack of research, you seem hypocritical.

He's essentially Bonner's replacement. Bonner sucks. We know this. He'll be much better than Bonner. He's not overpaid for what he brings to the table. He could become a legit Dirk type of player and average 25+ ppg. This would be good for Tim Duncan, and allow him to focus himself on the defensive side fo the ball. He's also big enough to hold his own so Timmy wouldn't need to look over his shoulder every two seconds.

Losing Parker hurts, but there could be worse things. Parker will cost more than Bargnani will over his contract.

Stone cold reality is we ain't gettin' rid of RJ and Parker is the spurs' best trade asset atm. The spurs need a solid addition to the frontline more than they need a starting point guard right now. Them's the facts. RJ has not become a good scoring option that everyone thought he would. Bargnani and his 20+ ppg will fill this role perfectly and then some.

Sorry if you disagree but there's really no need to get all bent out of shape, ain't the first time nor the last you and I don't see eye to eye.

[TJastal]

Contradict yourself much? One clue, is you and moan about Pop overusing Bonner, but You would be happy acquiring another soft, stretch 4, who doesn't play up to his height, nor rebound, and admitted hes lazy?

Bargnani would not be like Bonner, he actually is a factor in the paint in every game I've ever seen him play.

The lazy thing can be corrected with the proper motivational techniques.

[Nathan89]

He's Bonner, paid much more.

In a word, "NO". Besides we already have one of these - he's named Matt Bonner.

So, he's better because he takes more shots and shoots a lower percentage? How do you figure that? The Bonner Bar of 47/41 shouldn't be that hard to hit as a full time player if you're REALLY a star and not just being paid like one.

You know Ron Mercer was just this kind of player in his career before he got here: a low percentage chucker who scored 20 on a bad team. He was released.

Uh, he doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. He's also demonstrated no interest in playing in the post. You figure it out.

While Bonner has a ty skill-set, at least he does try.

Damn, I just defended Bonner? That's how bad this has become.

Bottom line, the Spurs already have two terrible defenders on their frontline. They don't need another.

Comparing a potential all-star to Bonner.

Thinking that people think he's only better because he gets better numbers as a result of shooting more at a lower%. When in reality Bonner could never score anywhere close to 20ppg. The high percentage and points Bonner gets come as a result of his teammates. There just isn't going to be enough open looks. A team could easily hold Bonner to an average of 3 or less points if they wanted to guard Bonner and let the other Spurs go one on one. Meanwhile Bargnani does get guarded and still puts up over 20ppg.

He's a homeless man's Turkoglu.

Is he talking about the same Turkoglu that played 74 games, averaged 30.7 minutes and scored 11.3ppg on .409 shooting last year for Toronto?

Oh, I hope not because me pointing this out would be pretty embarrassing.

[TD 21]

If you think that Toronto gets that much for Barg you're nuts. He's signed for 5 years at significant money. He's defensively poor and offensively inefficient. The only reason I like those trades above is because of who's leaving, not who we're getting...

As Mel_13 alluded to, Bargnani means more to Colangelo than he should based on merit. They're not just going to hand him away. He's overpaid, but his contract isn't an albatross. Not when he's 26, 7-0, mobile and skilled. I'm not a fan, but with those physical tools, he's got value.

I'm not suggesting for sure the Pacers would do either deal, but they're both realistic. The Pacers have a lot of cap space and are looking for a starting PF. Off the top of my head, Martin and Landry are the best free agents at PF. Which means they're better off going the trade route. The Raptors and Jazz are the two best fits.

[temujin]

Seriously? You couln't detect clear and obvious themes from the posts in this thread? I'll make easy for you.

He's an historically bad rebounder. Not just below average. Historically bad. Facts have been provided.

He does not give good effort. That's in his own words.

He does not provide rim protection. Look up his block numbers and find out what has been written about him by the Toronto press. You can find this on the Raptors official website:

Which brings us to Bargnani who is seven feet tall. I once asked Chris Bosh if Bargnani could pull down 10 boards a game. He looked at me like I had two heads. “He’s seven feet tall,” he said. (He averaged 5.2 rpg in 35.7 mpg last season)

You can call Bargnani a centre all you like. He can give you pretty good on-the-ball defence and a few blocks but he views the backboard like it’s made of poison ivy. And while he has pledged to improve, Bargnani treats weak-side defence as if it were invented by the Athenians.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/ulmer_blog/2011/may

Your assertion that "can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court" does not hold up to even a cursory fact check (unless 34.5% from beyond the arc is lights out). For example, he does not shoot as well the current stretch 4 on the Spurs roster. (Which isn't much of sin, since the in bent shoots so well, but Bargnani REBOUNDS WORSE THAN MATT BONNER. There's simply no excuse for a player with his physical gifts to be the worst rebounding big in the NBA)

When his trade kicker is factored in, he will be owed almost 44M over the next 4 years.

AND beyond all that, you think it would be a good idea to trade Tony Parker to acquire this vastly overpaid underachiever.

Correct.
To put it in simpler words bargnano has all the defects of italians without any of the merits.
Toronto (third biggest italian city in the world) is the perfect place for this loser.

[pad300]

As Mel_13 alluded to, Bargnani means more to Colangelo than he should based on merit. They're not just going to hand him away. He's overpaid, but his contract isn't an albatross. Not when he's 26, 7-0, mobile and skilled. I'm not a fan, but with those physical tools, he's got value.

That means that he won't get traded. It takes 2 to tango, and maybe Colangelo overrates Barg, but that doesn't mean anyone else does. Nobodies giving up a near all-star (granger) or 2 mid first round picks (George and the #15) for Barg.

A cat for a hat or a hat for cat, but not a sack of for useful pieces...

[SenorSpur]

Comparing a potential all-star to Bonner.

Thinking that people think he's only better because he gets better numbers as a result of shooting more at a lower%. When in reality Bonner could never score anywhere close to 20ppg. The high percentage and points Bonner gets come as a result of his teammates. There just isn't going to be enough open looks. A team could easily hold Bonner to an average of 3 or less points if they wanted to guard Bonner and let the other Spurs go one on one. Meanwhile Bargnani does get guarded and still puts up over 20ppg.



Is he talking about the same Turkoglu that played 74 games, averaged 30.7 minutes and scored 11.3ppg on .409 shooting last year for Toronto?

Oh, I hope not because me pointing this out would be pretty embarrassing.

Whatever. I don't give a if this clown does score 20 ppg. An admittedly lazy defender and terrible rebounder in a 7'0 body? That's all you need to know. You're wasting your time trying to make a defense for this guy/

[portnoy1]

As for the Trade Proposal, RJ and scrap (Bonner,Blair+picks) wont work. If you go TP+Bonner for Bargnani then your Probably good to go. But if you try to throw RJ in there you'll be expected to take back a bad contract, namely Calderon's. He is not a bad player, just overpaid for what he does (Feed the bigs, run PnR's and hit open shots).

Besides Trying to get Bargnani without involving TP is dumb anyway. Any skilled player that comes to the Spurs has to alter there game for TP's sake. If by some chance Bargs, did get here he would then be a waste of money sitting around the 3pt line Waiting for Parker to penetrate. Thats a waste of talent and money (ala RJ).

If the Spurs were able to put up with/ sure up Bargnani's shortcomings then you could start to properly get the players needed (Wing Defender, Solid 7ft Shot-blocking Center, solid backup Pg). Without it being absolutely essential for them to be good shooters. The players the Spurs need are out there, they just have to change their offensive stlye to get them and players roles need to be redefined and boundaries set.

[cantthinkofanything]

As for the Trade Proposal, RJ and scrap...

LOL at a trade consisting of RJ and scraps. How bad are the scraps if RJ is the headliner.

[portnoy1]

LOL at a trade consisting of RJ and scraps. How bad are the scraps if RJ is the headliner.

Blair?Bonner?a late pick? THOSE SCRAPS. RJ has value(not alot) he is just being misused on the Spurs, thats all. He could still put up 19pts on a bad team and maybe 14pts on a good team depending on the pecking order.

[cantthinkofanything]

Blair?Bonner?a late pick? THOSE SCRAPS. RJ has value(not alot) he is just being misused on the Spurs, thats all. He could still put up 19pts on a bad team and maybe 14pts on a good team depending on the pecking order.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Tbh, I didn't read your full post until just now.

But I would think "late pick and scraps" might be more compelling to another GM.

[portnoy1]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Tbh, I didn't read your full post until just now.

But I would think "late pick and scraps" might be more compelling to another GM.

Another GM? sure but not Colangelo (or however you spell his name)

[cantthinkofanything]

Another GM? sure but not Colangelo (or however you spell his name)

Ok. Thanks. It all makes sense now. Great posts.

[jag]

TJastal is unbearable.

[TJastal]

TJastal is unbearable.

[TD 21]

That means that he won't get traded. It takes 2 to tango, and maybe Colangelo overrates Barg, but that doesn't mean anyone else does. Nobodies giving up a near all-star (granger) or 2 mid first round picks (George and the #15) for Barg.

A cat for a hat or a hat for cat, but not a sack of for useful pieces...

Not necessarily. It just means he won't be traded unless it's for good value. You forgot to mention that I said Bargnani AND the fifth pick for Granger. They're both realistic trades. I wouldn't do either if I were the Pacers, though, because I'm not a Bargnani fan.