Do you ever doubt your religion/faith and God?

[Cry Havoc]

You know they use to sell tickets to heaven, right? I saw some fool on tv selling holy crackers. One clown was selling holy water from Russia. And what about those lame ass crosses depicting how disgraceful their all powerful being got murdered, and yet he's suppose to come back and save them.

Stalin was an atheist.

Therefore, all atheists are murderers.

See? We can play that game all day.

[Strike]

That's just it, they wont attribute all this evil to God, even though he made man in his image, and his likeness. God was so disgusted in his creation of man, that he tried to flood the whole earth, so they say. But some guy built a boat, and took the animals, and you all know the rest. You see, they have an easy out when you corner them with simple logic. They just blame it on some other make believe character, instead of the person that they claim created it all. Its like chasing a snake, with the way they twist and turn their truth.

Damn you! You just had to be open minded about religion and religious nutjobs, didn't you? Just had to have the balls to call a spade a spade! Just so a Spurs fan like myself with the same opinions would just have to agree with a Laker fan like yourself, right? Damn you Laker fans!!!

Kidding. My (soon to be) ex sister-in-law is exactly the person you're describing. Every logical question is answered with biblical rhetoric. Not that I have a problem with ALL religious people. Just the blind faith sheep that don't think for themselves.

And if any of you are offended by the term "blind faith sheep", then you just might be one. I'm just sayin'...

[Spursfan092120]

Don't take what I said as a personal attack on you or something, because I was speaking generally. If you feel that God is the motivation behind you being able to give up drinking, that's fine. Good for you, more power to you for giving it up. I just believe that within every person is something called willpower, and there are those who would choose to believe that things aren't left in our own hands to decide and think God is the decider of all, which is bull . I make my own choices and choose my own path, not some make believe deity. I don't use God as a crutch, whether that is using his "love" as my motivation to do something or whether that be feeling sorry for myself or not doing anything to better my position because it's just God's will and he'll get me through it.

Secondly, I don't shove anything down anyone's throats, so please don't throw wild accusations and assumptions around. I generally keep my religious thoughts to myself, because if ever I speak my mind on the subject it becomes this huge debacle about faith and God and . And you say people don't shove it down your throats in the south, which is funny because I live in SA which I'm sure is pretty south. But seriously, that's a load of horse . Because I'm sure any other atheist here will tell you that if you're talking to a religious person and you tell them you're an atheist, all they will try to do is tell you how God is present everywhere blah blah, and then they'll go off on some long tirade about how God saved their life or some crazy miracle happened to them so that proves he's real. And it's just extremely tiring to here people who won't listen to reason or any scientific evidence, HARD EVIDENCE, and just blindly follow like a sheep because they're so afraid that if they don't they'll go to .

That's all religion is. Made by man to make himself feel more secure in his meaningless existence by adding grand delusions of some Utopian afterlife if we all adhere to what some perverted old gots at the Vatican tell us to our lives so we feel more important, like we're apart of something bigger when in reality we're not that important and our existence on this planet is a statistical anomaly.

Well, I ain't buyin' that .

Now, firstly, I never said God helped me give up drinking. I think you were confusing me with someone else. My faith in God comes from the fact that myself, as well as my mother and father are still alive today, even though the odds say we shouldn't be. I have also dealt with a lot of money problems in the past, and with prayer, I felt the strength I needed to climb out of the hole and put myself in a different position. If you feel what you're saying is what religion is, that's fine, but that's just it. That's what you feel. Just like I believe in God. You have every right to believe what you believe just as I do. But while I respect you, don't think for a second that I'll sit back and believe when you try to tell me that what you believe is fact, when the truth is, there are no facts to support either claim that there is a God, or that there isn't. I choose to believe there is, and will continue to do so, despite the bashing.

[Spursfan092120]

i see this conversation has gotten far. Oh wow, wait, whats that? Religion talks never go anywhere? Oh yea that's what i thought. I wonder how many threads have come up about religion and gotten no where-no ones changing anyones minds, pretty much a waste of time-and yes i realize i put in my thoughts but it is pretty much pointless, ultimately questions will be asked, flaws pointed out, etc. You either are religious or your not. Doesn't make you a better person or not, just a choice. I'm going to say a prayer for you all.......i keed i keed

+1000000000000000000000000

[xellos88330]

I have never doubted my faith or God. I see things happening for a reason, and alot of it doesn't seem like coincidence to me at all. It has been my experience that with all the bad in the world, it just makes the good feel that much better. Those who had struggles seem to appreciate their success alot more than those who had minimal obstacles to hurdle. It is the way of the world.

[benefactor]

No sir, I am keenly aware of how powerful psychological addiction can be. In fact, it simply blows my mind. Its true, that some people cant stop at the word of a doctor, or the sense of their own body But as the good Jesus once pondered; how can you hate your bother, that you do know, and yet love him, that you don't know. I ponder similar questions. How can you ignore and have no faith in yourself, or a doctor that you may know, but have full faith in a God that you know not. You don't have to answer this, I'm just thinking out loud.

It's difficult to understand indeed. My hospital is a revolving door of many of the same people that continue to come back to drugs and alcohol...even though it costs them their families, jobs and health.

I guess I am passionate about it because it is close to home for me. My faith helped me come out of a destructive lifestyle that was hurting myself and those around me. It made a better father, son and husband. Can people be good at these things without faith? Absolutely. But with my predisposition to addictive behaviors, I needed something extra to help me overcome. I don't openly push my faith, but if I am put in a situation where I see someone with similar struggles and the opportunity arises, I will share my story with them. It has nothing to do with selling them fire insurance or coaxing them to my church. It's more about them finding the same thing I found...which is peace within themselves and the power to overcome the same types of struggles that I dealt with.

[ploto]

It is a shame that so many people base their view of religion on some TV evangelists or the most annoying religious people they have ever met. Those people annoy me, too. I would guess, though, that there are plenty of people you like and respect who find their peace through their faith and you simply do not know it.

I think that people have it backwards. Religion is not what contaminates people; it is people who contaminate religion. I think that for many who use religion for money, power, prestige, and as a weapon, they would simply use some other device to accomplish the same result if religion were not an option. Someone will be narcissistic and manipulative in everything he does. Religion and its practices may be for show, but so are his work, his relationships, and all his other dealings.

[BacktoBasics]

One of the things that has always annoyed me is the thumpers ability to compartmentalize randoms acts in one place. Then pedestal up other significant acts in perfect order because its all pre-determined by the big man in sky.

Ant bites you. Random happening in life.

Your sister dies in a car accident at the age of 17. Gods Plan.

You dropped your dinner on the ground while making your way to the table. Random Accident.

Your 28 year old uncle falls to his death at a construction site. Gods devine working.

Find a heads up penny. Random luck.

Win the lotto. God chose me.

-----------------------------------------------

Or worse the total thumper loon.

Ant bites me. God sent the ant to bite me so I would scratch my wound and notice that my finger nails were too long. God sent that ant to let me know I needed my nails trimmed.

[Soul_Patch]

One of the things that has always annoyed me is the thumpers ability to compartmentalize randoms acts in one place. Then pedestal up other significant acts in perfect order because its all pre-determined by the big man in sky.

Ant bites you. Random happening in life.

Your sister dies in a car accident at the age of 17. Gods Plan.

You dropped your dinner on the ground while making your way to the table. Random Accident.

Your 28 year old uncle falls to his death at a construction site. Gods devine working.

Find a heads up penny. Random luck.

Win the lotto. God chose me.

-----------------------------------------------

Or worse the total thumper loon.

Ant bites me. God sent the ant to bite me so I would scratch my wound and notice that my finger nails were too long. God sent that ant to let me know I needed my nails trimmed.

[boutons_deux]

George Carlin has a great routine about how his praying to the sun (or was it Joe Pesci ), something he could actually see and knew existed, had about the same results as praying to God (he was raised in a Catholic home).

About 50% of the time praying to the sun worked, about 50% of the time, it didn't. About same results as praying to God.

[SonOfAGun]

Still, if you believe in something greater after all of this, it can help you live a better life.

We still don't know much about the human brain. I bet this spirituality/religion ability humans have somehow unlocks something extra sub consciously that makes those people strong. I know some religious people (keep it to themselves) that are 100% unbreakable and are able to just ram through all the life throws at them.

Didn't Carlin turn to drugs or booze? That's ing weak.

[benefactor]

It is a shame that so many people base their view of religion on some TV evangelists or the most annoying religious people they have ever met. Those people annoy me, too. I would guess, though, that there are plenty of people you like and respect who find their peace through their faith and you simply do not know it.

I think that people have it backwards. Religion is not what contaminates people; it is people who contaminate religion. I think that for many who use religion for money, power, prestige, and as a weapon, they would simply use some other device to accomplish the same result if religion were not an option. Someone will be narcissistic and manipulative in everything he does. Religion and its practices may be for show, but so are his work, his relationships, and all his other dealings.

Exactly. There are very few churches that actually represent who Jesus was and what he stood for. It's funny how most Christian people today look more like the Pharisees that Jesus called "whitewashed tombs." Oh how far we have fallen from the church that is described in Acts 2.

"44 And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. 45 They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. 46 They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity"

[Darrin]

First off, I like you, so I want to make sure you know this is no offense...My faith is not a crutch. I believe in God because I've had a lot of things happen in my life that I consider miracles, and I believe he is the one who brought them to me. And for you to say that most Christians shove their beliefs down people's throat, that's crap. I live in the south, where Christians are everywhere..and we don't shove anything down anyone's throat. Maybe where you live they do, but maybe that's because you shove the fact that you DON'T believe down people's throats. Maybe not, but that's just as bad as when Laker fans say all Spurs fans hate Kobe Bryant. Completely untrue...maybe some do, but most just live their lives.

It is not without merit. For the record I am an athiest. While I needed simple needs like medication, food, and shelter I was forced to attend one-hour-long prayer sessions in the mornings, and three three-hour-long sermons while stayed in a homeless shelter. Without those appearances, I would not be allowed to stay there or eat there. I was homeless.

It does happen, and just because it is not your experience doesn't mean that it's a total fabrication.

[Darrin]

Scientific studies have shown there is substantial evidence that individuals who live through life with a belief in a deity or incorporate a spiritual component to their lives live longer and healthier than those who do not.

I think that has to do with surrendering your problems and stress when you cannot change the cir stances. If athiests took that at ude, I think we'd be a healthier bunch. But for the record, I am insulin-resistent, overweight, and a smoker.

If you've paid attention to the Bible, it states that the number of true Christians in the world are very few. If an atheist walks up to me and punches me in the face, may I hold all atheists responsible for such an act? If not, please refrain from generalizing so drastically.

That is a good point. However, when an athiest punches you for being a Christian, feel free to make the persecution argument. There are crimes committed in the name of god. For instance, the Spanish Inquisition.

[ploto]

...I was forced to attend one-hour-long prayer sessions in the mornings, and three three-hour-long sermons while stayed in a homeless shelter. Without those appearances, I would not be allowed to stay there or eat there. I was homeless.

I would guess that this shelter was run by a religious organization and that you went to them for help. That is not the same thing at all as claiming people cram their beliefs down your throat. Was there no atheist-run charity offering you assistance? Then, you want to gripe about the people whose faith motivated them to assist you in your need?

[BacktoBasics]

Dude goes in for charity and cries about the stipulations that come with "free". I hate ing people.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Dude goes in for charity and cries about the stipulations that come with "free". I hate ing people.

[Darrin]

I would guess that this shelter was run by a religious organization and that you went to them for help. That is not the same thing at all as claiming people cram their beliefs down your throat. Was there no atheist-run charity offering you assistance? Then, you want to gripe about the people whose faith motivated them to assist you in your need?

Do a search on your computer for shelters in Oakland County, MI. It's Grace Centers for Hope in Pontiac, MI or some shelter in Royal Oak. These are government-funded ins utions. It wasn't like I went to all the charities in the area, I went to the shelters in my community.

The simple answer is no. There was nowhere else to go. I help without faith. I have had a homeless man stay in my house to keep him out of Grace Centers. If they are chasing some version of heaven, then damn them and their faith. This is about a sense of community, and yes, you pissed me off with your post.

[Darrin]

dude goes in for charity and cries about the stipulations that come with "free". I hate ing people.

this is the only shelter in my area! Would you rather me on the street! you!

[pkbpkb81]

I believe

But yes some days are harder than others and I fell GOD understands when we have

Doubts

[ploto]

Do a search on your computer for shelters in Oakland County, MI. It's Grace Centers for Hope in Pontiac, MI or some shelter in Royal Oak. These are government-funded ins utions.

Grace Centers of Hope is considered one of the leading faith-based organizations in Southeastern Michigan daily confronting issues of homelessness, addiction, poverty and spiritual emptiness.

Our $3 million dollar budget is supported exclusively through private support; we receive no government dollars.

So again, I ask about your being angry that a faith-based organization includes spiritual guidance in its efforts. That is a part of its mission.

[Darrin]

So again, I ask about your being angry that a faith-based organization includes spiritual guidance in its efforts. That is a part of its mission.

Pride goeth before the fall. And yes. Since it was the only organization I could go to in Oakland County. I would've lost my health-care provider if I stayed in Macomb.

[ploto]

And yes. Since it was the only organization I could go to in Oakland County.

So you are angry that a faith-based organization that gets all its money from private donors who support those specific faith-based efforts includes in its mission issues of a spiritual nature? Are they not welcome to conduct their mission as they see fit?

Should you not rather be angry that no one else in the area offered an alternative?

[Homeland Security]

this is the only shelter in my area! Would you rather me on the street! you!

I love it. Not only do you demand a handout, you demand to stipulate the manner in which it is handed out. you, you animal.

It goes to show why those charities are idiotic and worthless -- they prevent excess population like you from dying the slow, lonely deaths they deserve.

[Homeland Security]

Religion is either a tool for people to assuage their guilt as they go along their merry way stepping on others toward wealth and power, or a means of coping for those getting stepped on.

I don't believe in guilt.