Camden, NJ

[Will Hunting]

Just wondering - why are people using this hole of a city as an example of something to emulate? I don’t think I’ve ever been to a more depressed and impoverished place.

[Will Hunting]

FYI - here’s what liberals were saying about the defunding of Camden’s police department back when it originally happened:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...te-town-56174/

Defunding city police and replacing them with county police wasn’t some community-based effort to end police brutality, it was a Republican Governor and some good old fashion union busting.

[spurraider21]

Just wondering - why are people using this hole of a city as an example of something to emulate? I don’t think I’ve ever been to a more depressed and impoverished place.

They were a hole before Witt improves numbers since the change

[Will Hunting]

They were a hole before Witt improves numbers since the change

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but I legit have no idea what you’re saying here

[spurraider21]

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but I legit have no idea what you’re saying here

Phone was doing autocorrect and i didn’t bother double checking

You say Camden is a hole. Yes it is and was a hole. But they have seen legitimate objective improvement since the change.

Even that article which tried to paint as unflattering a picture at possible discussed the community policing approach more than once

[Will Hunting]

Phone was doing autocorrect and i didn’t bother double checking

You say Camden is a hole. Yes it is and was a hole. But they have seen legitimate objective improvement since the change.

Even that article which tried to paint as unflattering a picture at possible discussed the community policing approach more than once

It painted the picture of authoritarian policing, which is effectively what Camden is. I’ve been there twice in the last year (long story behind why, I promise it wasn’t to buy heroine ) and it’s the most over militarized place I’ve ever seen. Surveillance on every street corner & cops everywhere you look. It’s a mini police state.

[Spurtacular]

Sounds like the worst of both worlds. Lowlife thugs and hard-ass coppers.

[spurraider21]

It painted the picture of authoritarian policing, which is effectively what Camden is. I’ve been there twice in the last year (long story behind why, I promise it wasn’t to buy heroine ) and it’s the most over militarized place I’ve ever seen. Surveillance on every street corner & cops everywhere you look. It’s a mini police state.

Still a high crime area, i don’t think anybody suggested that would magically change

[Will Hunting]

Still a high crime area, i don’t think anybody suggested that would magically change

I just don’t think the new policing style in Camden is something to emulate. I know it’s cliche to call stuff “Big Brother” but having cameras that monitor every sidewalk and technology that allows police to track you for no reason is as big brother as it gets. If taking away civil liberties is the only way to prevent crime then we’re all ed no matter what.

[spurraider21]

I just don’t think the new policing style in Camden is something to emulate. I know it’s cliche to call stuff “Big Brother” but having cameras that monitor every sidewalk and technology that allows police to track you for no reason is as big brother as it gets. If taking away civil liberties is the only way to prevent crime then we’re all ed no matter what.

Illegal warranties searches would still be subject to exclusion. The general idea is that sending in a goon squad with guns and batons who don’t give a about the community is a terrible solution

[pgardn]

You can find a Camden in any country in the world if you look.
Its a place where the down and out have little hope in societal rules so something else evolves.
There are places that people are born into this and or seek it out.
They dont give a fck about anything we do. No skins in "our" game.

The reasons are probably many, but its pretty clear if you have nothing to gain by following the rules in your area, you dont follow the rules, it has to hurt some sort of standing you have in that society.

Imo you have to have a short term solution to deal with this group interfering with people who do play by the rules, but long term, you have to make people care about having something to lose; Besides their self perceived pride (they will make the pride rules for themselves). They must feel like they are apart of something bigger that will benefit them.
I dont think anyone has figured this out fully yet as it is probably very difficult.
The prisons where they have tried to mix populations of different long term resident gangs are probably an interesting helpful study to see how they obtain their rules.

Imo there is reform for some, and some (I believe probably a high % mentally ill) its gonna be very difficult.
This easiest solution is not to be born in the hole. Good luck with that.

My way too long take.

[ElNono]

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi but I legit have no idea what you’re saying here

He was speaking ducks language

[Will Hunting]

You can find a Camden in any country in the world if you look.
Its a place where the down and out have little hope in societal rules so something else evolves.
There are places that people are born into this and or seek it out.
They dont give a fck about anything we do. No skins in "our" game.

The reasons are probably many, but its pretty clear if you have nothing to gain by following the rules in your area, you dont follow the rules, it has to hurt some sort of standing you have in that society.

Imo you have to have a short term solution to deal with this group interfering with people who do play by the rules, but long term, you have to make people care about having something to lose; Besides their self perceived pride (they will make the pride rules for themselves). They must feel like they are apart of something bigger that will benefit them.
I dont think anyone has figured this out fully yet as it is probably very difficult.
The prisons where they have tried to mix populations of different long term resident gangs are probably an interesting helpful study to see how they obtain their rules.

Imo there is reform for some, and some (I believe probably a high % mentally ill) its gonna be very difficult.
This easiest solution is not to be born in the hole. Good luck with that.

My way too long take.

Didn’t read the whole thing but I disagree that you can find a Camden in any country in the world. You’re not going to find Camden in Sweden or Denmark. There’s a lot more concentrated poveraty in American than there is in most other modern countries.

[pgardn]

Didn’t read the whole thing but I disagree that you can find a Camden in any country in the world. You’re not going to find Camden in Sweden or Denmark. There’s a lot more concentrated poveraty in American than there is in most other modern countries.

Yes you can.
They are usually composed of drug dens of younger people.
You can find trouble in any country.
Addicts are very good at not caring about rules as their rule is the next fix, anyway possible.
Now this is not Camden, but it has the same basic characteristics of people who dont give a fck.

I would say there are fewer born into it, but society has found a way to exclude them so they look for other ways.

[ElNono]

It painted the picture of authoritarian policing, which is effectively what Camden is. I’ve been there twice in the last year (long story behind why, I promise it wasn’t to buy heroine ) and it’s the most over militarized place I’ve ever seen. Surveillance on every street corner & cops everywhere you look. It’s a mini police state.

That's what north jersey in general looks like, my nig... you know I've lived there for 20 years... towns like Elizabeth, Camdem, even Newark... no matter the mayor, no matter the governor, they're just terrible places to live. The biggest attraction is having Manhattan across the pond, tbh...

Philly and surroundings is not much different, tbh

[Will Hunting]

It’s also not just Camden. It’s East St. Louis, Flint, Gary Indiana, etc. We have countless amounts of poverty/crime hot spots all over the country that are home to tens of millions of people if you add them all up. You don’t see that kind of extreme poverty in other modern countries.

[Spurtacular]

That's what north jersey in general looks like, my nig... you know I've lived there for 20 years... towns like Elizabeth, Camdem, even Newark... no matter the mayor, no matter the governor, they're just terrible places to live. The biggest attraction is having Manhattan across the pond, tbh...

Philly and surroundings is not much different, tbh

[Spurtacular]

It’s also not just Camden. It’s East St. Louis, Flint, Gary Indiana, etc. We have countless amounts of poverty/crime hot spots all over the country that are home to tens of millions of people if you add them all up. You don’t see that kind of extreme poverty in other modern countries.

All Democrat holes, bruh.

[pgardn]

It’s also not just Camden. It’s East St. Louis, Flint, Gary Indiana, etc. We have countless amounts of poverty/crime hot spots all over the country that are home to tens of millions of people if you add them all up. You don’t see that kind of extreme poverty in other modern countries.

It can arise in the poverty of not belonging.
Usually mental illness and or a combination of a ty family life.
Not endemic and systematized as in the US, but the characteristics of crime for things we consider startling occur.
And the same basic theme of not having skins in "our" game.

[ElNono]

luckily where I lived was pretty good... central jersey, near the shore... some places on the south are pretty decent too... but yeah, the north is just pretty terrible, tbh

[Will Hunting]

Yes you can.
They are usually composed of drug dens of younger people.
You can find trouble in any country.
Addicts are very good at not caring about rules as their rule is the next fix, anyway possible.
Now this is not Camden, but it has the same basic characteristics of people who dont give a fck.

I would say there are fewer born into it, but society has found a way to exclude them so they look for other ways.

Where in Sweden can I find a town of 80,000 people where the median household income is as low as it is in Camden? I’m sure the major cities like Stockholm have a mix of good and bad areas, but they don’t have entire towns and cities that have basically been left behind by capitalism.

[Will Hunting]

All Democrat holes, bruh.

Letting America get hollowed out by globalism was a bipartisan initiative, with Ronny Reagan leading the way.

[Will Hunting]

luckily where I lived was pretty good... central jersey, near the shore... some places on the south are pretty decent too... but yeah, the north is just pretty terrible, tbh

Aren’t they gentrifying a big chunk of Jersey City?

Central New Jersey near the shore is nice overall, except for that place with all the Orthodox Jews. Driving through there was like being in the twilight zone.

[Spurtacular]

luckily where I lived was pretty good... central jersey, near the shore... some places on the south are pretty decent too... but yeah, the north is just pretty terrible, tbh

NBC pulled their punches though. They totally found two high-end white chicks to play the part.

[Spurtacular]

Letting America get hollowed out by globalism was a bipartisan initiative, with Ronny Reagan leading the way.

Republicans are complicit in a lot of things, no doubt. Just pointing out that Democrats are proven en ies. I wasn't for Obamacare; but it should've at least been done right if they were gonna do it. Instead they enriched insurance companies and f'd with people's health care. Not cool.