1st Presidential Debate Blog

[Clandestino]

ABC news said Obama looked into the camera and engaged america and also looked at McCain during the debate......they said McCain looked at the ground................. :lmao OLD BASTURD!!!


Obama CLEARLY swept the floor with McSame

obviously you didn't even watch it... if you did, you probably didn't understand it

[BRHornet45]

ABC news said Obama looked into the camera and engaged america and also looked at McCain during the debate......they said McCain looked at the ground................. :lmao OLD BASTURD!!!


Obama CLEARLY swept the floor with McSame

son do you expect ABC of all networks to say anything negative about Hussein? they have shamelessly been in the tank for him since day one.

[ChumpDumper]

Interesting to see the polls on the reaction TO the debate directly. I think at BEST it was a tie for McCain. We'll see what the reactions are, however. I won't bother "debating" it here because everyone believes what they will.I don't think it's going to have any effect on the polls.

[Findog]

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/thegreatdebater.jpg

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/0fdd3c626d_patriotsTradeM315.jpg

http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/gems/dallas-mavericks-nba-champs-2006.jpg

[Yonivore]

Like McCain when he was getting destroyed by Obama on Iraq?
Just because you agree with what Obama was saying doesn't mean a) he was right or b) he was destroying McCain.

What I think came from that exchange is that McCain recognizes the complexities of our presence in the entire region. And, he did point out one salient point wherein Petraeus and bin Laden agreed what was the central battlefront of the war.

[possessed]

McCain comes off as more authoritative, Obama comes off as a wuss.

[Findog]

I don't think it's going to have any effect on the polls.

In all honesty, both candidates scored well at times and stumbled at others. I think Obama wins on points, but that's not what ultimately matters.

[Shelly]

why is obama's wife wearing my grandma's couch?

I was thinking the same thing. That dress was awful

[Ginofan]

You guys are insane...jesus!
I don't see any one candidate absolutely OWNING the other.

[Findog]

That was about as bone headed as you can get. Yeah, Im going to put a spending freeze on education and health care... good luck. That debate was lame.

Or Social Security or Medicare

[Mr. Peabody]

I think McCain was intimidated by Obama. He wouldn't look at Obama, while Obama stared directly at him when addressing him.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think it's going to have any effect on the polls.

Thats not what I was referencing. I'm sure certain pollsters will conduct surveys on "who won" etc. I'm interested to see those results.

[Findog]

Biden is doing the spin for the Dems. Where is Palin????

[Gino]

So he'll freeze funding of the wars?

Someone asked for a major policy he introduced....ask him on the specifics.

McCain rocked Obama tonight.

I don't see how it could have seriously gone better for McCain tonight.

[Shastafarian]

I think it was a wash. Both had good moments and both had bad moments.

[Findog]

I think McCain was intimidated by Obama. He wouldn't look at Obama, while Obama stared directly at him when addressing him.

Gore sighs

[ChumpDumper]

Biden is doing the spin for the Dems. Where is Palin????At a bar.

Not joking.

[Yonivore]

Well, for those that didn't watch the debates...all they're going to see is Obama saying, "I agree with John," "I agree with Senator McCain," "I give credit to John," over and over and over again.

:lmao.

[Gino]

McCain comes off as more authoritative, Obama comes off as a wuss.

And a pouter.

[Yonivore]

I think it was a wash. Both had good moments and both had bad moments.
Fair assessment.

Obama had better presence...McCain won on content. IMHO

[Gino]

When one side is saying its a wash or tie...that means their side just got trounced.

[MannyIsGod]

Just because you agree with what Obama was saying doesn't mean a) he was right or b) he was destroying McCain.

What I think came from that exchange is that McCain recognizes the complexities of our presence in the entire region. And, he did point out one salient point wherein Petraeus and bin Laden agreed what was the central battlefront of the war.

Yonivore brings up a point why people see it so differently. You tend to believe the candidate who makes the points you agree with scored the point, which is why 2 people who believe different things viewing this thing will say "zomg my boy owned yours" "no way you got pwned" etc etc.

The important result is to see who more Americans agree with and who they identified with the most.

[Shastafarian]

Well, for those that didn't watch the debates...all they're going to see is Obama saying, "I agree with John," "I agree with Senator McCain," "I give credit to John," over and over and over again.

:lmao.

Unfortunately idiots like you only hear those parts of Obama's message. If people actually watched the debate they would see Obama disagreed with McCain on almost every issue.

[Findog]

At a bar.

Not joking.

Ah, as it turns out, she declined. Instead, we get Mayor 9.11

[Gino]

AOL blog saying McCain won hands down:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/26/live-blog-presidential-debate-1/

[Xylus]

Findog and Gino, SpursTalk's very own Michael Moore and Ann Coulter.

[ChumpDumper]

Someone asked for a major policy he introduced....ask him on the specifics.A freeze is a freeze. If it isn't, it's exactly what Obama was talking about.


McCain rocked Obama tonight.Not really.


I don't see how it could have seriously gone better for McCain tonight.Of course you can't. You can't say anything different.

[Yonivore]

Unfortunately idiots like you only hear those parts of Obama's message. If people actually watched the debate they would see Obama disagreed with McCain on almost every issue.
Then why was he agreeing so much?

Yes, he differed with McCain...and he's wrong on those points.

[Shastafarian]

When one side is saying its a wash or tie...that means their side just got trounced.

Or they're not blinded by partisanship.

[ChumpDumper]

AOL blog saying McCain won hands down:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/26/live-blog-presidential-debate-1/

Sure, I get all my political views from "DAVE"

[PixelPusher]

Bring on Palin... I love this chic..LOL!!!

Sorry, you'll have to settle for Rudy Septembereleventhianni instead.

[Shastafarian]

AOL blog saying McCain won hands down:

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/26/live-blog-presidential-debate-1/


blog by Dave


:lmao The unquestioned authority on all things politics!

[Clandestino]

I was thinking the same thing. That dress was awful

:lol She needs to know that she is always under scrutiny now!

[Findog]

Findog and Gino, SpursTalk's very own Michael Moore and Ann Coulter.

That's cold. Obama didn't win a decisive victory tonight, but neither did McCain. Obama dominated some exchanges, McCain scored a few good points on Iran. I'm not a blind homer.

[Spurtacus]

McCain supporters shooting blanks.

[Shastafarian]

Then why was he agreeing so much?

Yes, he differed with McCain...and he's wrong on those points.

I think he was using it as a contrast to open up into how he disagrees with McCain on those issues.

[Clandestino]

And WTF is up with Obama pronouncing it PAH-kistan...

[Gino]

CNN talking about how Obama lost his cool and McCain hit his targets.

[Yonivore]

I think he was using it as a contrast to open up into how he disagrees with McCain on those issues.
Pretty stupid debate tactic. This was a debate, right?

[ChumpDumper]

McCain supporters shooting blanks.No shit.

They are really overdoing it, trying to convince themselves.

[Yonivore]

CNN talking about how Obama lost his cool and McCain hit his targets.
:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow
NFW!!

[Shastafarian]

CNN talking about how Obama lost his cool and McCain hit his targets.

Clarify. CNN or some partisan fool?

[Gino]

Findog and Gino, SpursTalk's very own Michael Moore and Ann Coulter.

Who?

[Shastafarian]

Pretty stupid debate tactic. This was a debate, right?

In this day and age of 10 second soundbites you're actually right. But if people actually watched the debate, they'd know he doesn't think John McCain should be the next president.

[ChumpDumper]

CNN talking about how Obama lost his cool and McCain hit his targets.CNN talking about how Obama thrashed McCain on Iraq.

So there.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Interesting debate ... but nothing earth shattering from either side. Both hit some points. McCain was too often pausing, trying to come up with an answer. Obama was too often trying to interject and but in, and looking more frustrated at times than expected.

Pretty even overall. Neither side changed any undecideds minds this evening.

Someone mentioned it earlier ... both sides were playing to not lose, as opposed to going for the win.

McCain could have easily flubbed against a better speaker. A better orator who has a better style that plays better to most people. But IMO he held his own. Which is probably a victory in some sense for his campaign.

[Findog]

Who?

You know, the guy who you put on ignore before you didn't have on ignore, because you couldn't handle an opposing viewpoint. Did you get your balls back?

[Gino]

CNN says the two big phrases tonight:

"You don't understand" - John McCain

"Jon is right" - Barrack Obama.

[Yonivore]

In this day and age of 10 second soundbites you're actually right. But if people actually watched the debate, they'd know he doesn't think John McCain should be the next president.
Dude, it's Friday night...how many "actually" watched the debate?

Besides, it wouldn't matter if this were a non-televised high school debate, you don't make silly mistakes like that.

[Mr. Peabody]

CNN says the two big phrases tonight:

"You don't understand" - John McCain

"Jon is right" - Barrack Obama.

CNN also says that the independents in their focus group were turned off by McCain's dickish demeanor.

[Shastafarian]

Dude, it's Friday night...how many "actually" watched the debate?

Besides, it wouldn't matter if this were a non-televised high school debate, you don't make silly mistakes like that.

Like I said, you're right. It was a misstep. I can say with some confidence he won't do it in the next two. Unfortunately now it's up to the "news" networks to report what happened.

[Yonivore]

CNN says the two big phrases tonight:

"You don't understand" - John McCain

"Jon is right" - Barrack Obama.
And, if CNN is saying that, that's the news...

Obama is screwed.

[baseline bum]

McCain could have easily flubbed against a better speaker. A better orator who has a better style that plays better to most people. But IMO he held his own. Which is probably a victory in some sense for his campaign.

Yeah, it should help take Palin's fuck-ups off the front burner and boost his poll numbers some.

[spurster]

It seemed like a tie to me. Viewed through the lens of Iraq, McCain is right about the surge working but fragile so leaving too soon would be irresponsible, but Obama is right that BushCo and McCain are too focused on Iraq.

On other issues, there isn't much difference. Did McCain support nuclear waste in Yucca, thereby giving up Nevada?

Jim Lehrer was stupid asking Obama and McCain about their votes on a bill whose elements are not fixed.

McCain and his advisors still refuse to read Obama's web site, so they would know what his policies were.

Obama's makeup was horrible. It was like some caricature of Obama on the screen. And what was that about, making up different first names for McCain?

[Findog]

CNN also says that the independents in their focus group were turned off by McCain's dickish demeanor.

In all honesty, neither guy *won* a clear and convincing victory. I think McCain got a few jabs in, but he needed a clear victory. He didn't get it.

[Yonivore]

Like I said, you're right. It was a misstep. I can say with some confidence he won't do it in the next two. Unfortunately now it's up to the "news" networks to report what happened.
Apparently, they already are.

"You don't understand" "John is right"

[ChumpDumper]

I don't have basic cable.

[lebomb]

obviously you didn't even watch it... if you did, you probably didn't understand it

Watched the whole thing my man....... :king

[ChumpDumper]

In all honesty, neither guy *won* a clear and convincing victory. I think McCain got a few jabs in, but he needed a clear victory. He didn't get it.Gergen said that on the channel Yoni can't afford.

[Mr. Peabody]

In all honesty, neither guy *won* a clear and convincing victory. I think McCain got a few jabs in, but he needed a clear victory. He didn't get it.

You know, a commentator on PBS said that a tie helps the guy that's trailing. I thought that was a surprising comment. I've always heard that the trailing candidate needs a victory to make headway. Interesting. We'll see what happens.

[Shastafarian]

Apparently, they already are.

"You don't understand" "John is right"

"You don't understand" doesn't really tell us much other than that McCain thinks Obama is an idiot. I think a major theme, along with Obama agreeing a lot, is McCain coming off as exceedingly arrogant and condescending.

[DarkReign]

Fair assessment.

Obama had better presence...McCain won on content. IMHO

:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow:wow

I cant believe I fucking agree with Yoni.

[Clandestino]

Watched the whole thing my man....... :king

then, you didn't understand it! :lol

[Ya Vez]

guess the polls will tell us soon... this room is too partisan to get a good read on who actually won...

[Spurtacus]

God damn, this chick on CNN is pissing me off. She must be receiving some of those blanks from her McCain supporting boyfriends!

[Shastafarian]

:lmao Olbermann is so partisan but watching him go off on things is hilarious.

[Shastafarian]

God damn, this chick on CNN is pissing me off. She must be receiving some of those blanks from her McCain supporting boyfriends!

I'm guessing it's Nicole Wallace. She works for the McCain campaign. She sucks.

[ChumpDumper]

guess the polls will tell us soon... this room is too partisan to get a good read on who actually won...I wouldn't expect much movement in the polls from this one.

[MannyIsGod]

guess the polls will tell us soon... this room is too partisan to get a good read on who actually won...

Thats my feeling too.

[Mr. Peabody]

:lmao Olbermann is so partisan but watching him go off on things is hilarious.

I refuse to watch MSNBC or Fox News tonight.

[Shastafarian]

Krauthammer: "It was a draw"

Hell has frozen over.

[Yonivore]

Ec3aC8ZJZTc

[Spurtacus]

I'm guessing it's Nicole Wallace. She works for the McCain campaign. She sucks.

Yup.

[MannyIsGod]

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/quotes/Pres08_Quotes.html

McCain lost 3 points on the Iowa Market but gained 3 points on Intrade.

[Spurtacus]

I refuse to watch MSNBC or Fox News tonight.

Same. I prefer MSNBC, but I watched CNN tonight.

[baseline bum]

Krauthammer: "It was a draw"

Hell has frozen over.

Are you kidding me? Neither side is claiming a home run?

[The Reckoning]

biden is going to destroy palin

[Mr. Peabody]

Are you kidding me? Neither side is claiming a home run?

I promise you that Olbermann claimed a homerun for Obama.

[DarkReign]

Biden was just on CNN.

When can I expect Palin to appear on FOX?

[baseline bum]

Ec3aC8ZJZTc

Obama screwed up kissing McCain's ass tonight.

[Kriz-Maxima]

I saw it whole and I think no one won.

[Yonivore]

biden is going to destroy palin
I'm thinking Joe will just be Joe.

That could be a problem.

Maybe we could do a drinking game on how many times he contradicts his running-mates policies, insults minorities, or gets history wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

I promise you that Olbermann claimed a homerun for Obama.Not so far.

[Yonivore]

Obama screwed up kissing McCain's ass tonight.
Yup.

[Shastafarian]

Not so far.

No he's just relentlessly going after McCain and what he said.

[Shastafarian]

Here's Kissinger on Iran...let's see if McCain was misinformed. (CNN)

[MannyIsGod]

Apparently the Mediacurves focus group gave the debate to Obama by a 6:4 ratio. Republicans and Dems were both gave it to their candidate by 9:1 ratios.

[DarkReign]

Biden was just on CNN.

When can I expect Palin to appear on FOX?

Biden is on FOX.

When can I expect Palin on FOX?!

[PixelPusher]

Biden was just on CNN.

When can I expect Palin to appear on FOX?

The McCain campaign has Rudy subbing for Palin on the networks.

[baseline bum]

It was nice to see a debate where neither side came off as a dumbass. Kind of the antithesis of the 04 and 00 debates where both sides were garbage.

[ChumpDumper]

Biden is on FOX.

When can I expect Palin on FOX?!Damn, Biden is hitting all three news networks tonight. Where is the hothouse flower?

[Shastafarian]

The McCain campaign has Rudy subbing for Palin on the networks.

How can people not see how ridiculous this all is? WHERE IS YOUR VICE PRESIDENT?

[DarkReign]

It was nice to see a debate where neither side came off as a dumbass. Kind of the antithesis of the 04 and 00 debates where both sides were garbage.

Here! Here!

[whottt]

whottt's analysis:

Objective judgement: The number of libs saying it was a tie are far greater than the number of conservatives saying it was a tie. That equals a McCain win.

Personal Judgement: McCain won.

What McCain did well: Made Obama look throroughly naive, overly idealistic and inexperienced. Threw W under the fucking bus on Iraq. He nuked Obama across the board on foreign policy and the only ones that don't agree with that are people that are against the Iraq War.

What Obama did well: Tied McCain to Bush every chance he got forcing McCain to throw W under the fucking bus. Pissed McCain off with the referencing of Kissinger.


What McCain did badly: Got pissed off about the Kissinger reference. Mutiliated the scumbag leader of Iran's name. Personally, I'd have cheered if he had just called him asshole.


What Obama did badly: Stammered. Motherfuck! You can tell me that this dude is the love child of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Clinton, but there aint no fucking way I am listering stuttering dip shit give speeches for the next 4 years. I'll vote for fucking Hilter first.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, whottt thinks his candidate('s running mate) won.

Shocking.

[Gino]

whottt's analysis:

Objective judgement: The number of libs saying it was a tie are far greater than the number of conservatives saying it was a tie. That equals a McCain win.

Personal Judgement: McCain won.

What McCain did well: Made Obama look throroughly naive, overly idealistic and inexperienced. Threw W under the fucking bus on Iraq. He nuked Obama across the board on foreign policy and the only ones that don't agree with that are people that are against the Iraq War.

What Obama did well: Tied McCain to Bush every chance he got forcing McCain to throw W under the fucking bus. Pissed McCain off with the referencing of Kissinger.


What McCain did badly: Got pissed off about the Kissinger reference. Mutiliated the scumbag leader of Iran's name. Personally, I'd have cheered if he had just called him asshole.


What Obama did badly: Stammered. Motherfuck! You can tell me that this dude is the love child of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Clinton, but there aint no fucking way I am listering stuttering dip shit give speeches for the next 4 years. I'll vote for fucking Hilter first.


Yep. He stammered and looked so angry the whole night.

[Shastafarian]

whottt's analysis:
Objective judgement: The number of libs saying it was a tie are far greater than the number of conservatives saying it was a tie. That equals a McCain win.


Logic isn't your strong suit is it?

[CubanMustGo]

Another neocon saying they'd vote for Hitler instead of a liberal. What surprise.

[DarkReign]

For example Whottt:


Biden was just on CNN.

When can I expect Palin to appear on FOX?


Biden is on FOX.

When can I expect Palin on FOX?!

[PixelPusher]

How can people not see how ridiculous this all is? WHERE IS YOUR VICE PRESIDENT?

Is all part of their "mother-of-all-lowered-expectations" strategy. Mark my words, when she appears at the VP debate, she will slay us all with her brilliance.

[Shastafarian]

What Obama did badly: Stammered. Motherfuck! You can tell me that this dude is the love child of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Clinton, but there aint no fucking way I am listering stuttering dip shit give speeches for the next 4 years. I'll vote for fucking Hilter first.

Because the man stutters? I knew you were a bigot but jeez...

[MannyIsGod]

CBS reaction poll of 500 independents give the debate to Obama 40:22 with 38% delcaring it a tie.

[mouse]

I didn't see the debate I have no TV but I appreciate everyone's solid performance tonight with all the updates, it seems as though no matter who wins we all just want change and a better life.

[hitmanyr2k]

Is all part of their "mother-of-all-lowered-expectations" strategy. Mark my words, when she appears at the VP debate, she will slay us all with her brilliance.

I think the McCain campaign is going to put peanut butter on Palin's gums like they used to do with Mr. Ed and hope for the best.

[SnakeBoy]

How can people not see how ridiculous this all is? WHERE IS YOUR VICE PRESIDENT?

I actually agree with you for once. They are hurting themselves by not letting Palin be Palin. It's actually silly that they're worried about a gaffe from her since Biden makes at least 3 per day. Plus it focuses too much attention on her when they let her speak since it has become a rare event.

Biden just said McCain was DEAD wrong on Iraq. This coming from the guy who wanted to unilaterally chop Iraq up into three countries and then run for the hills.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Wolf Blitzer

"people asking why we interviewed Biden and not Palin?

Becasue the bitch won't come on the air"

Paraphrased of course.

[ElNono]

whottt's analysis:

Objective judgement: The number of libs saying it was a tie are far greater than the number of conservatives saying it was a tie. That equals a McCain win.

Personal Judgement: McCain won.

What McCain did well: Made Obama look throroughly naive, overly idealistic and inexperienced. Threw W under the fucking bus on Iraq. He nuked Obama across the board on foreign policy and the only ones that don't agree with that are people that are against the Iraq War.

What Obama did well: Tied McCain to Bush every chance he got forcing McCain to throw W under the fucking bus. Pissed McCain off with the referencing of Kissinger.


What McCain did badly: Got pissed off about the Kissinger reference. Mutiliated the scumbag leader of Iran's name. Personally, I'd have cheered if he had just called him asshole.


What Obama did badly: Stammered. Motherfuck! You can tell me that this dude is the love child of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Clinton, but there aint no fucking way I am listering stuttering dip shit give speeches for the next 4 years. I'll vote for fucking Hilter first.

So McCain won because he didn't stutter? Gotcha.

[MannyIsGod]

I"m annoyed MSNBC doesn't have a debate reaction show with Joe Scarburough and Christ Matthews and instead we get Olberman.

[baseline bum]

CBS reaction poll of 500 independents give the debate to Obama 40:22 with 38% delcaring it a tie.

That's pretty shocking to me. I thought McCain did pretty well tonight. Not well enough to make me consider changing my vote, but he was smart enough to convince me we're probably going to be better off with him if elected than we have been with an anti-intellectual like Bush.

[Shastafarian]

I"m annoyed MSNBC doesn't have a debate reaction show with Joe Scarburough and Christ Matthews and instead we get Olberman.

They had Matthews on earlier. I can't stand Scarborough.

[mouse]

Hey Manny if you have any links to where I can see some recaps of tonight's debate and after the juicy aftermath that followed feel free to post them, And congrats on a great topic. :tu

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml

That CBS poll was of uncommitted voters not independents.

[DarkReign]

Who won the presidential debate? * 147162 responses

John McCain
36%

Barack Obama
49%

Tie
6.4%

Not sure
8%

Cmon, internet polls?

Are they reliable?

[Mr. Peabody]

Hey Manny if you have any links to where I can see some recaps of tonight's debate and after the juicy aftermath that followed feel free to post them, And congrats on a great topic. :tu

You can probably watch some highlights on CNN.com. In fact, they're probably doing a webcast of the post-debate analysis.

Link to Part 1 of the debate on CNN (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/26/debate.entire.part1.cnn)

And on CNN.com Live they are webcasting the analysis. It's on the home page of CNN in the video section under "Live".

[MannyIsGod]

That's pretty shocking to me. I thought McCain did pretty well tonight. Not well enough to make me consider changing my vote, but he was smart enough to convince me we're probably going to be better off with him if elected than we have been with an anti-intellectual like Bush.

When I was watching CNN, the trend line for independent reaction went really low for McCain quite often. I'm not sure it ever went below neutral for Obama. Typically it was always positive no matter what the candidate was saying but when McCain was notably pissed or when he spoke over Obama it went down a lot.

I think typically anger and smugness doesn't play well with independents, and I think that showed for me.

Thats all anecdotal of course, but I think the media curves info and the CBS poll are playing to that.

[MannyIsGod]

Cmon, internet polls?

Are they reliable?

Internet polls are not reliable.

The stuff I have listed are not internet polls, just FYI.

[MannyIsGod]

Props to the McCain campaign for getting that Youtube ad out so fast. That was pretty slick.

[DarkReign]

Biden was just on CNN.

When can I expect Palin to appear on FOX?


Biden is on FOX.

When can I expect Palin on FOX?!

Biden is on MSNBC.

When can I expect Palin to be on fucking FOX?!

[DarkReign]

Internet polls are not reliable.

The stuff I have listed are not internet polls, just FYI.

Thank you.

[Shastafarian]

:lmao

Hannity: "Everything Senator Obama mentioned, it all seemed like book knowledge."

There you have it. Sean Hannity doesn't like books.

[baseline bum]

Who won the presidential debate? * 147162 responses

John McCain
36%

Barack Obama
49%

Tie
6.4%

Not sure
8%


sons, that is only because republicans are out getting laid tonight while libtards sit home and jacked off to the messiah

[Yonivore]

Here's Kissinger on Iran...let's see if McCain was misinformed. (CNN)
Well, don't leave us in suspense...what'd he say?

[whottt]

:sleep:sleep
Wow, whottt thinks his candidate('s running mate) won.

Shocking.


Yeah he did. Obama's weak on foreign policy and it shows. But the stuttering is a problem...I'm serious, if you don't think people will vote on something as shallow as that, then you are spending too much time with the wrong kind of people.

I feel I was pretty objective about what Obama did well...forcing McCain to throw W under that blatantly is a huge coup, it probably helped McCain with moderates but it hurts the enthusiasm of the base. The futher he gets from the base the more the Pre-Palin problems arise of people being unenthusiastic about his canidacy.

[DarkReign]

sons, that is only because republicans are out getting laid tonight while libtards sit home and jacked off to the messiah

:lmao

[Shastafarian]

Well, don't leave us in suspense...what'd he say?

He said talks should begin at the highest level. I assume that means presidents. It was not the entire clip of him so I couldn't really gauge it.

[MannyIsGod]

Here are the media curves breakdowns

http://mediacurves.com/

Independents side more with Obama on EVERY issue listed and side with him as the debate winner as well.

I'm not sure the accuracy on how this is.

[Shastafarian]

Dayum. CNN polls show people think Obama won by a substantial margin. They are democrat leaning according to CNN.

[MannyIsGod]

CNN polls are being released right now.

58-37 of debate watchers feel Obama won.

[Mr. Peabody]

sons, that is only because republicans are out getting laid tonight while libtards sit home and jacked off to the messiah

:lmao

[Shelly]

Well, don't leave us in suspense...what'd he say?

He said that he and McCain don't always agree on issues, but McCain was right in what he said.

[ChumpDumper]

Biden is on MSNBC.

When can I expect Palin to be on fucking FOX?!

From the local Fox affiliate in Philly:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/photo_servlet?contentId=7525878&version=1&locale=EN-US&subtype=MIMG&siteId=1011&isP16=true

Very vice presidential.

[MannyIsGod]

Dayum. CNN polls show people think Obama won by a substantial margin. They are democrat leaning apparently.

Its debate watchers and I'm not sure how its broken down by party affiliation. We'll have to see so we can put it in a better context.

[Shastafarian]

He said that he and McCain don't always agree on issues, but McCain was right in what he said.

No, that was from his press release that was issued AFTER the debate. CNN showed the video of him discussing Iran before the debate.

[Yonivore]

He said talks should begin at the highest level. I assume that means presidents. It was not the entire clip of him so I couldn't really gauge it.
Okay...well, levels is plural and we only have one President.

But, fair enough...he is hard to understand sometimes.

[PixelPusher]

:lmao

Hannity: "Everything Senator Obama mentioned, it all seemed like book knowledge."


Fucking wow.

[Shelly]

What Kissinger said
Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

Pretty simple:

Kissinger: "Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic..." Sesno: "Put at a very high level right out of the box?" Kissinger: "Initially, yes. And I always believed that the best way to begin a negotiation is to tell the other side exactly what you have in mind and what you are -- what the outcome is that you're trying to achieve so that they have something that they can react to. Now, the permanent members of the Security Council, plus Japan and Germany, have all said nuclear weapons in Iran are unacceptable. They've never explained what they mean by this. So if we go into a negotiation, we ought to have a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government." (CNN's "Live Event," 9/20/08)

[Shastafarian]

What Kissinger said
Posted by Ilan Goldenberg

Pretty simple:

Kissinger: "Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic..." Sesno: "Put at a very high level right out of the box?" Kissinger: "Initially, yes. And I always believed that the best way to begin a negotiation is to tell the other side exactly what you have in mind and what you are -- what the outcome is that you're trying to achieve so that they have something that they can react to. Now, the permanent members of the Security Council, plus Japan and Germany, have all said nuclear weapons in Iran are unacceptable. They've never explained what they mean by this. So if we go into a negotiation, we ought to have a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government." (CNN's "Live Event," 9/20/08)

Looks like I was wrong. He never actually said "highest".

[CubanMustGo]

CNN polls are being released right now.

58-37 of debate watchers feel Obama won.

Coming soon: FOX poll where 75-17 of debate watchers feel McCain won.

[Yonivore]

So, Shastafarian lied to me?

Wow, who woulda thunk it.

[Mr. Peabody]

On CNN, the commentators just said "polls on all the networks say Obama won substantially."

You can't trust internet polls though because they are made up of a younger more tech-savy demographic.

[Crookshanks]

:lmao

Hannity: "Everything Senator Obama mentioned, it all seemed like book knowledge."


He just expounded further on this - he means that it seemed Obama was just repeating facts and didn't have any real experiences like McCain.

[Shastafarian]

So, Shastafarian lied to me?

Wow, who woulda thunk it.

Gimme a break it was a clip on CNN. They only played part of it and I thought he said highest.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not sure how reliable the Media Curves info is, but the CNN and CBS polls should be considered fairly reliable and those 2 have Obama winning this debate.

[ChumpDumper]

On CNN, the commentators just said "polls on all the networks say Obama won substantially."

You can't trust internet polls though because they are made up of a younger more tech-savy demographic.There are actual non internets polls coming in now.

[MannyIsGod]

On CNN, the commentators just said "polls on all the networks say Obama won substantially."

You can't trust internet polls though because they are made up of a younger more tech-savy demographic.

They said IF, not that they say Obama won. I've only seen the CBS poll and the CNN poll so far. I want to see the internals if possible before declaring them "the law" though.

[Shastafarian]

But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations.

He did say this.

[MannyIsGod]

According to fivethirtyeight.com 2 more focus groups went to Obama as well, but no info further than that.

So far all public opinion information is favorable for Obama.

[ChumpDumper]

He did say this.What did he say about tables?

[Mr. Peabody]

They said IF, not that they say Obama won. I've only seen the CBS poll and the CNN poll so far. I want to see the internals if possible before declaring them "the law" though.

My mistake. I was flipping back and forth between CNN and Real Time on HBO.

[Mr. Peabody]

CNN focus group.....

[PixelPusher]

He just expounded further on this - he means that it seemed Obama was just repeating facts and didn't have any real experiences like McCain.

Yes, much better to have the "experience" of taking a carefully choreographed flak jacket tour of Iraq or Afghanistan, than to actually to do any "book larnin" on the subject.

[DarkReign]

I'm not sure how reliable the Media Curves info is, but the CNN and CBS polls should be considered fairly reliable and those 2 have Obama winning this debate.

Like Peabody said, internet polls are considerably a younger perspective.

But if that actually is the ultimate conclusion the national perspective reaches, it would be a coup.

[Shastafarian]

Coming soon: FOX poll where 75-17 of debate watchers feel McCain won.

:lmao

82-16

[DarkReign]

FOX poll

82% McCain
16% Obama
1% Undecided

[Mr. Peabody]

CNN focus group -

"Not a game changing debate"

"Voters disliked the angry rhetoric."

[MannyIsGod]

My mistake. I was flipping back and forth between CNN and Real Time on HBO.

Was Real Time live? I was gonna watch it but I didn't see the live and he started talking about the couric interview and not the debate so I figured I'd just watch it later.

[Crookshanks]

I'm not sure how reliable the Media Curves info is, but the CNN and CBS polls should be considered fairly reliable and those 2 have Obama winning this debate.

Not necessarily because of the makeup of their audience. Hardly any conservative people watch CNN or CBS because of their obvious bias. However, I expect the Fox poll to show overwhelmingly that McCain won because that's where the conservatives are watching and voting.

Bingo - Fox just released the first results of their poll

82% say McCain won! About 50,000 votes cast so far.

[MannyIsGod]

FOX poll

82% McCain
16% Obama
1% Undecided

Seriously?

[Biernutz]

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/thegreatdebater.jpg


http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/systime/SMILEYS%20%20222/theusa_dance.gif

[Yonivore]

He did say this.
But he didn't say it in the context of the President meeting with them.

[ChumpDumper]

Not necessarily because of the makeup of their audience. Hardly any conservative people watch CNN or CBS because of their obvious bias. However, I expect the Fox poll to show overwhelmingly that McCain won because that's where the conservatives are watching and voting.

Bingo - Fox just released the first results of their poll

82% say McCain won! About 50,000 votes cast so far.There is great confusion here about internets polls and non internets polls.

[Shastafarian]

Seriously?

You're surprised?

[MannyIsGod]

Not necessarily because of the makeup of their audience. Hardly any conservative people watch CNN or CBS because of their obvious bias. However, I expect the Fox poll to show overwhelmingly that McCain won because that's where the conservatives are watching and voting.

Bingo - Fox just released the first results of their poll

82% say McCain won! About 50,000 votes cast so far.

CNN and CBS polls were not conducted on their viewers. The viewer base has nothing to do with it.

If that Fox Poll has 50,000 votes its an internet poll and doesn't mean anything. The 2 polls I listed were actual reasearch telephone polls.

[Mr. Peabody]

Was Real Time live? I was gonna watch it but I didn't see the live and he started talking about the couric interview and not the debate so I figured I'd just watch it later.

Yeah, they have Ralph Nader on. They are talking about the debate.

[CubanMustGo]

Seriously?

Are you surprised? The Fox crowd is overwhelmingly neocon.

[MannyIsGod]

You're surprised?

I would be incredibly suprised if a non internet poll should results anywhere near that.

[milkyway21]

"John your absolutely right" - Obama ...... that sums up his night. how many times has he agreed with McCain now! my count is at 8:lol I thought it was Obama who's schooling McCain here?
I'm confused :rollin

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, they have Ralph Nader on. They are talking about the debate.

Fuck Nader. I used to love him. I hate him now.

[hater]

Glad I missed this stupid debate. seems like they didn't answer most questions. BS

[Shastafarian]

But he didn't say it in the context of the President meeting with them.

He didn't mention the word president at all. His response was ambiguous on what levels of the government he wanted exactly.

[dg7md]

Not necessarily because of the makeup of their audience. Hardly any conservative people watch CNN or CBS because of their obvious bias. However, I expect the Fox poll to show overwhelmingly that McCain won because that's where the conservatives are watching and voting.

Bingo - Fox just released the first results of their poll

82% say McCain won! About 50,000 votes cast so far.

[CubanMustGo]

But he didn't say it in the context of the President meeting with them.

When it comes to picking nits and over parsing statements, Bill Clinton has nothing on you.

[Shastafarian]

I would be incredibly suprised if a non internet poll should results anywhere near that.

It's a text message vote which I would assume is even less reliable.

[Yonivore]

He didn't mention the word president at all. His response was ambiguous on what levels of the government he wanted exactly.
Uh, no.


"I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level"

[TheMadHatter]

Lame debate to be honest. Neither candidate did a good job of laying out their plan for the future of America, it was 2hrs of campaign sound bytes.

The bottom line is McCain needed to win this debate decisively to take control of this election. He just didn't do it

[Shastafarian]

Glad I missed this stupid debate. seems like they didn't answer most questions. BS

McCain does wanna freeze most federal spending.

[milkyway21]

Seriously?

how about the CNN voting poll?

who won blue or red? :D

[DarkReign]

I would be incredibly suprised if a non internet poll should results anywhere near that.

It was/is text message driven. I dont know what that means.

[baseline bum]

82/16? I thought McCain won the debate, but damn, 82/16 would be indicative of Bentsen/Quayle. :lol

[Crookshanks]

CNN and CBS polls were not conducted on their viewers. The viewer base has nothing to do with it.

If that Fox Poll has 50,000 votes its an internet poll and doesn't mean anything. The 2 polls I listed were actual reasearch telephone polls.

Oh - ok. Since I'm not watching those channels, I wasn't aware of how the polls were conducted. That being said, I still don't put much credence in ANY of these polls. I don't trust the people doing the surveying - I think all of them slant the polls to fit their own bias.

[Yonivore]

When it comes to picking nits and over parsing statements, Bill Clinton has nothing on you.
Well, it just so happens the nit being picked is the fact that Obama said that he, as President, would personally meet with Ahmadinejad without preconditions.

Shasta is trying to parse his way out of that. It ain't happening.

Kissinger never said he agreed with the President of the United States meeting without preconditions.

[TheMadHatter]

Internet poll = useless

[MannyIsGod]

It was/is text message driven. I dont know what that means.

It means its not accurate.

The 2 polls conducted that I've seen results from so far are telephone polls carried out in the manner most serious public opinion research is carried out. They're relatively accurate but have a MOE of around 4 points or so.

The FOX stuff is not accurate in the least. I wish Fox was contributing a real poll so we could see what it said. I'm hoping more pollsters have conducted polls.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, it just so happens the nit being picked is the fact that Obama said that he, as President, would personally meet with Ahmadinejad without preconditions.

Shasta is trying to parse his way out of that. It ain't happening.

Kissinger never said he agreed with the President of the United States meeting without preconditions.Just the Secretary of State, which means if you support this you are now throwing W under the bus.

:clap

[DarkReign]

Just an update:


Biden was just on CNN.

When can I expect Palin to appear on FOX?


Biden is on FOX.

When can I expect Palin on FOX?!


Biden is on MSNBC.

When can I expect Palin to be on fucking FOX?!

[DarkReign]

It means its not accurate.

The 2 polls conducted that I've seen results from so far are telephone polls carried out in the manner most serious public opinion research is carried out. They're relatively accurate but have a MOE of around 4 points or so.

The FOX stuff is not accurate in the least. I wish Fox was contributing a real poll so we could see what it said. I'm hoping more pollsters have conducted polls.


Thanks again.

[Shastafarian]

Well, it just so happens the nit being picked is the fact that Obama said that he, as President, would personally meet with Ahmadinejad without preconditions.

Shasta is trying to parse his way out of that. It ain't happening.

Kissinger never said he agreed with the President of the United States meeting without preconditions.


He told us he supports talks, if not with Ahmadinejad, then with high level Iranian officials, without preconditions.

Sounds like he was open to it when he spoke to Katie Couric. "If not with Ahmadinejad".

[ChumpDumper]

Just an update:The bars are still open in Philly. Palin is getting blotto.

[MannyIsGod]

CNN keeps releasing figures from their god damn poll but they won't put it on a website which is pissing me off.

Women for Obama 2:1 ratio though. People over 50 for Obama slightly, and Men for McCain slightly.

[DarkReign]

Manny, you said the CNN is reliable (+/-4).

If so, they just said the following demographics scored:

People aged 50+: 48-40 Obama
Men: 48-42 Men
Women: 58-40

If true, another coup.

[Shastafarian]

Some hotties standing behind Alan Colmes on Fox "McCain won - 82%" News.

[DarkReign]

CNN keeps releasing figures from their god damn poll but they won't put it on a website which is pissing me off.

Women for Obama 2:1 ratio though. People over 50 for Obama slightly, and Men for McCain slightly.

lol

[Yonivore]

Sounds like he was open to it when he spoke to Katie Couric. "If not with Ahmadinejad".
Hold on, quit moving the target Shasta, we're dealing with two specific issues here. Please, try to keep up.

McCain pointed out, and rightly so, that Obama had stated that, as President, he would meet with Ahmadinejad, without preconditions.

Is that True or not? Did Obama at any point in this campaign say that he would sit down with Ahmadinejad, without preconditions?

Second, in response to that specific assertion, Obama lied in using Henry Kissinger as cover by saying that Henry Kissinger agreed with him on the matter when, in fact, Henry Kissing said no such thing.

Is that True or not? Did or did not Henry Kissinger ever say that he supported the idea of the President of the United States sitting down with Ahmadinejad, without preconditions?

Try to stay on point now.

[Shelly]

Who are they polling? Are they just randomly calling people? Because if they called me, I wouldn't answer the phone. Thanks to caller ID, I don't answer it if I don't recognize the number. Do you think they'd leave a vmail so I couldn call them back? :lol

[baseline bum]

Some hotties standing behind Alan Colmes on Fox "McCain won - 82%" News.

Fox is such a joke. I don't know how anyone can watch them and claim not to be a lemming.

[Yonivore]

CNN keeps releasing figures from their god damn poll but they won't put it on a website which is pissing me off.

Women for Obama 2:1 ratio though. People over 50 for Obama slightly, and Men for McCain slightly.

Probably because their internals suck...oversampled somebody.

[TheMadHatter]

I've been following politics long enough to understand you don't win a debate by actually "winning" the debate. You win a debate by shoring up your weaknesses with the American people.

People who say Obama tonight who were wondering about his readiness probably came out feeling impressed with his presence. Those who saw McCain tonight wondering about his judgment probably came out feeling impressed with his experience and command of foreign policy issues. Unfortunately for McCain he NEEDED to win this debate and he just didn't do it.

[DarkReign]

Im glad someone is bagging on Palin.

MIA

[Crookshanks]

Fox is such a joke. I don't know how anyone can watch them and claim not to be a lemming.
Probably the same could be said of those who watch CNN

[CubanMustGo]

Probably because their internals suck...oversampled somebody.

As opposed to a goddamned self-selecting CELL PHONE VOTE? Fuck off already.

[Shastafarian]

McCain pointed out, and rightly so, that Obama had stated that, as President, he would meet with Ahmadinejad, without preconditions.

Is that True or not? Did Obama at any point in this campaign say that he would sit down with Ahmadinejad, without preconditions?

Possibly. I don't have the quotes in front of me. I'd say yeah.


Second, in response to that specific assertion, Obama lied in using Henry Kissinger as cover by saying that Henry Kissinger agreed with him on the matter when, in fact, Henry Kissing said no such thing.

Is that True or not? Did or did not Henry Kissinger ever say that he supported the idea of the President of the United States sitting down with Ahmadinejad, without preconditions?

Try to stay on point now.
You think Kissinger meant he'd wanna see someone other than the President sit down with Ahmadinejad? I was on point. Kissinger said:

"He told us he supports talks, if not with Ahmadinejad, then with high level Iranian officials, without preconditions. "

Who would sit down with Ahmadinejad?

[ChumpDumper]

Probably because their internals suck...oversampled somebody.:lol

You wouldn't be saying this if McCain did better.

[MannyIsGod]

Probably because their internals suck...oversampled somebody.

Its possible, but its not CNN conducting these polls but their usual pollster. I can't remember who does the CNN polls off the top of my head though.

I'll find out.

The internals will be out at some point though.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, you said the CNN is reliable (+/-4).

If so, they just said the following demographics scored:

People aged 50+: 48-40 Obama
Men: 48-42 Men
Women: 58-40

If true, another coup.

One thing to note is I really hate when they use these internal demographic numbers because while the MOE of the entire poll maybe 4.5 points or so, these internals have a much higher MOE and may be completely unreliable. They likely show a general trend, but its hard to be entirely sure.

[ChumpDumper]

Im glad someone is bagging on Palin.

MIAIt's hilarious that she was scheduled to watch this in a fucking bar.

[Crookshanks]

Im glad someone is bagging on Palin.

MIA
I agree that not having Palin on gives a negative perception. However, does anyone think the VP candidate would say anything other than their running mate won - their remarks are really irrelevent.

[Mr. Peabody]

Its possible, but its not CNN conducting these polls but their usual pollster. I can't remember who does the CNN polls off the top of my head though.

I'll find out.

The internals will be out at some point though.

It's Opinion Research.

[Yonivore]

Possibly. I don't have the quotes in front of me. I'd say yeah.

You think Kissinger meant he'd wanna see someone other than the President sit down with Ahmadinejad? I was on point. Kissinger said:

"He told us he supports talks, if not with Ahmadinejad, then with high level Iranian officials, without preconditions. "

Who would sit down with Ahmadinejad?
Well, as he said earlier in the quote you just excerpted...and, which I've already posted, twice now.


"I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level"

[T Park]

Fox is such a joke. I don't know how anyone can watch them and claim not to be a lemming.

I watch and I'm not a lemming.

Sue me.

[baseline bum]

Probably the same could be said of those who watch CNN

Tell me when they push Obama winning at an 82/16 ratio. FoxNews never even tries to look like anything but right-wing fellators.

[Shastafarian]

Well, as he said earlier in the quote you just excerpted...and, which I've already posted, twice now.

I find it hard to believe Kissinger thinks Ahmadinejad would meet with the Secretary of State rather than our head of state.

[ChumpDumper]

I agree that not having Palin on gives a negative perception. However, does anyone think the VP candidate would say anything other than their running mate won - their remarks are really irrelevent.Her absence from even the most basic press appearances is increasingly relevant.

[spurster]

You can't rely on MediaCurves results.

http://mediacurves.com/AboutUs.cfm



MediaCurves.com conducts national surveys online ...

[Spurminator]

I agree that not having Palin on gives a negative perception. However, does anyone think the VP candidate would say anything other than their running mate won - their remarks are really irrelevent.

Their ability or inability to remark intelligently is not irrelevant. The fact that she could not even be relied upon to parrot the points McCain made in the previous 2 hours is VERY telling.

[Yonivore]

I find it hard to believe Kissinger thinks Ahmadinejad would meet with the Secretary of State rather than our head of state.

I find it harder to believe that a sitting President of the United States would sit down with a madman without preconditions.

And, once again, you've missed Kissinger's point. I don't think he ever said who would be on the other side of the table, but he probably had in mind it would be an equivalent Iranian official.

[T Park]

Their ability or inability to remark intelligently is not irrelevant. The fact that she could not even be relied upon to parrot the points McCain made in the previous 2 hours is VERY telling.

They'd be reading off cue cards and campaign BS.

Whatever.

[spurster]

Her absence from even the most basic press appearances is increasingly relevant.

Yes, that is a coup for the Obama campaign. They'll probably make Biden available for any interview anytime, not that anybody will pay attention to them, but that Palin is MIA.

[baseline bum]

I find it harder to believe that a sitting President of the United States would sit down with a madman without preconditions.

And, once again, you've missed Kissinger's point. I don't think he ever said who would be on the other side of the table, but he probably had in mind it would be an equivalent Iranian official.

I just hope Palin never becomes president. She won't even meet with Wolf Blitzer.

[Spurminator]

They'd be reading off cue cards and campaign BS.

Whatever.

I know, easy right? Why can't the VP candidate do it?

[ChumpDumper]

They'd be reading off cue cards and campaign BS.

Whatever.Biden wasn't doing that on CNN or MSNBC.

Was he doing so on Fox?

[Shastafarian]

And, once again, you've missed Kissinger's point. I don't think he ever said who would be on the other side of the table, but he probably had in mind it would be an equivalent Iranian official.
Then why did he say, "If not Ahmadinejad"? Just to throw his name out there?

[ElNono]

I agree that not having Palin on gives a negative perception. However, does anyone think the VP candidate would say anything other than their running mate won - their remarks are really irrelevent.

I agree that VP remarks are silly at this point. That said, it's only good when you can get free time campaigning on national TV.
This whole 'hide the VP' thing is starting to get really ridiculous.
I wonder if Biden is going to call her out on it next week.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah but this wasn't open to the general public Spurster. It was a focus group. I'm not saying the Mediacurves stuff is completely accurate, but I'm not ready to dismiss it outright either.

We'll see.

[T Park]

I know, easy right? Why can't the VP candidate do it?

I odn't know.

Fuck it.

I'm tired of being attacked for supporting one side.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, that is a coup for the Obama campaign. They'll probably make Biden available for any interview anytime, not that anybody will pay attention to them, but that Palin is MIA.Nobody gives a shit about what the VP candidate has to say -- until (s)he refuses to say anything. All it does it make it more noteworthy when she actually does, and that has been a disaster so far.

[Spurminator]

I think Obama needs to ask McCain point blank... Would you declare war on Iran before sitting down with Ahmadinejad without preconditions?

[Spurminator]

I odn't know.

Fuck it.

I'm tired of being attacked for supporting one side.

Why do you feel attacked? I'm just asking you a question.

[Yonivore]

Then why did he say, "If not Ahmadinejad"? Just to throw his name out there?
Okay, let's look at the entire excerpt...it's all I have and I don't get CNN here.


Kissinger: "Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we -- we know we're dealing with authentic..." Sesno: "Put at a very high level right out of the box?" Kissinger: "Initially, yes. And I always believed that the best way to begin a negotiation is to tell the other side exactly what you have in mind and what you are -- what the outcome is that you're trying to achieve so that they have something that they can react to. Now, the permanent members of the Security Council, plus Japan and Germany, have all said nuclear weapons in Iran are unacceptable. They've never explained what they mean by this. So if we go into a negotiation, we ought to have a clear understanding of what is it we're trying to prevent. What is it going to do if we can't achieve what we're talking about? But I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations. We ought, however, to be very clear about the content of negotiations and work it out with other countries and with our own government." (CNN's "Live Event," 9/20/08)
Were you talking about Kissinger saying that or someone else? 'Cause, I don't see it here.

[DarkReign]

I agree that not having Palin on gives a negative perception. However, does anyone think the VP candidate would say anything other than their running mate won - their remarks are really irrelevent.

Ive made my opinion known in another thread that I find her opinion important in particular because of McCain, namely his age and health.

[Shastafarian]

Okay, let's look at the entire excerpt...it's all I have and I don't get CNN here.


Were you talking about Kissinger saying that or someone else? 'Cause, I don't see it here.

No it's a statement he issued to Katie Couric after she asked Palin about meeting Kissinger.

[Yonivore]

No it's a statement he issued to Katie Couric.
Post that then.

[Mr. Peabody]

Yeah but this wasn't open to the general public Spurster. It was a focus group. I'm not saying the Mediacurves stuff is completely accurate, but I'm not ready to dismiss it outright either.

We'll see.

The problem with internet polls is that they van be manipulated by large groups. For example, on the Democratic Underground, they literally have threads saying "Let's DU this poll" and then, hundreds of people go vote for the democratic option on that poll. The Free Republic (Republican) does the same thing.

The other problem you have is the bias of the website that the poll is on (e.g., a poll on The Daily Kos, National Review, MSNBC.com, FoxNews.com, etc.).

If an internet poll is closed to the general public and the participants are a representative sample, it would seem to minimize the above phenomena.

[Shastafarian]

Post that then.

I already did. Here it is again.


He told us he supports talks, if not with Ahmadinejad, then with high level Iranian officials, without preconditions.

[Yonivore]

I already did. Here it is again.

"He told us..." There's a problem right there. How 'bout a quote from Kissinger. That's what I've been working from.

And, if look at the construction of that statement it could be read to mean, Kissinger supports talk with Iran just not with Ahmadinejad, directly.

Sorry, I don't trust Couric. I want see Kissinger saying it. And, that's not what he said on CNN.

[MannyIsGod]

UPDATED WITH NEAR-FINAL NUMBERS CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

Thirty-nine percent of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. Twenty-five percent thought John McCain won. Thirty-six percent saw it as a draw.

Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight. Thirty-one percent said their opinion of McCain got better.

Sixty-six percent of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-four percent think McCain would.

Forty-eight percent of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. Fifty-eight percent think McCain would.

We will have a full report on the poll later on. Uncommitted voters are those who don't yet know who they will vote for, or who have chosen a candidate but may still change their minds.

The margin of sampling error could be plus or minus 4 percentage points for results based on the entire sample.

Just pretty damn good numbers for Obama.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml

[Shastafarian]

"He told us..." There's a problem right there. How 'bout a quote from Kissinger. That's what I've been working from.

And, if look at the construction of that statement it could be read to mean, Kissinger supports talk with Iran just not with Ahmadinejad, directly.

Sorry, I don't trust Couric. I want see Kissinger saying it. And, that's not what he said on CNN.
But of course.

[Crookshanks]

Ive made my opinion known in another thread that I find her opinion important in particular because of McCain, namely his age and health.

I was talking about specifically commenting on this debate. Those are the comments that are irrelevent because they will never say their running mate didn't do a great job or criticize any aspect of their performance.

[Yonivore]

But of course.
Well, goddam Shasta, if you're going to say Kissinger said something...show me where he said it. It's a pretty simple request.

What Couric says he said could mean a whole bunch of shit.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I'm not sure if it's a positive or a negative, but this was the first presidential debate I've ever watched. And I enjoyed it. Enjoyed the importance of it. I actually felt like I was part of the decision making process. I guess I'm a bit more interested in politics than I was at a younger age. Although, at 35, it's not like I'm a young kid. Previously, I haven't really concerned myself with any sort of election process as I've always felt that my vote doesn't really matter.

For the most part, I find myself overwhelmed by the stats, facts and history that most of you regulars in the political forum go on about. Most of you are far more intelligent than myself. You understand the importance and implications of each candidates philosophies and comments far better than I ever will. Foreign policy, economic policy. etc etc ....

I suppose I find the current problems that face our country a hell of a lot more serious than I ever have in the past. That's probably not a good thing. But it did make me watch the debate.

I fully intend to watch the future debates. I'm excited about it.

But at the end of the day, I find myself disgusted by the whole process. I hate the whole partisanship makeup of our government. I don't believe anyone. They're all full of shit. It's all about supporting the party and not the people. Drop the titles of the party, and stand the fuck up for what you believe in. Screw talking pints. Screw public support. Do what is fundamnetally right for us as a country.

I tend to buy into the character and integrity of McCain, and at the same time, question the inexperience of Obama. That's probably largely due to the influence of my parents who've always been Republican leaning.

Tonight was a win for whatever side you push. CNN will give some 80% numbers for Obama, and FOX will will show similar numbers for McCain.

I just want to know what will help ME, a 35 year old, earning 50k a year, with lots of frightening questions about my future.

Tonight didn't answer that. Neither side said shit that even I didn't know.

But I'm glad to find myself wanting to be a part of the process. Part of the decision.

[Mr. Peabody]

Just pretty damn good numbers for Obama.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81/kos102/2008/Campaign/Blowout-1.jpg

[T Park]

Neither side said shit that even I didn't know

Which I predicted.

I knew it was just gonna be regurgitated campaign tripe.

[DarkReign]

But I'm glad to find myself wanting to be a part of the process. Part of the decision.

You'd better, we live in a swing state. :toast

[T Park]

Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not sure if it's a positive or a negative, but this was the first presidential debate I've ever watched. And I enjoyed it. Enjoyed the importance of it. I actually felt like I was part of the decision making process. I guess I'm a bit more interested in politics than I was at a younger age. Although, at 35, it's not like I'm a young kid. Previously, I haven't really concerned myself with any sort of election process as I've always felt that my vote doesn't really matter.

For the most part, I find myself overwhelmed by the stats, facts and history that most of you regulars in the political forum go on about. Most of you are far more intelligent than myself. You understand the importance and implications of each candidates philosophies and comments far better than I ever will. Foreign policy, economic policy. etc etc ....

I suppose I find the current problems that face our country a hell of a lot more serious than I ever have in the past. That's probably not a good thing. But it did make me watch the debate.

I fully intend to watch the future debates. I'm excited about it.

But at the end of the day, I find myself disgusted by the whole process. I hate the whole partisanship makeup of our government. I don't believe anyone. They're all full of shit. It's all about supporting the party and not the people. Drop the titles of the party, and stand the fuck up for what you believe in. Screw talking pints. Screw public support. Do what is fundamnetally right for us as a country.

I tend to buy into the character and integrity of McCain, and at the same time, question the inexperience of Obama. That's probably largely due to the influence of my parents who've always been Republican leaning.

Tonight was a win for whatever side you push. CNN will give some 80% numbers for Obama, and FOX will will show similar numbers for McCain.

I just want to know what will help ME, a 35 year old, earning 50k a year, with lots of frightening questions about my future.

Tonight didn't answer that. Neither side said shit that even I didn't know.

But I'm glad to find myself wanting to be a part of the process. Part of the decision.

Solid dude. Don't let anyone tell you what you feel or think is wrong, just make sure you do your best to try to get a good basis for what you believe and who you support. Your desire to be part of the process is refreshing. You live in a place where your vote will mean a lot, so I think you bear a responsibility to cast an informed vote. Outside of that whatever path you think best for that vote is your choice.

I'm sure you'll make a good one, whichever way you go.

Good luck.

[ploto]

Women: 58-40


Goes with what I said in the other thread- Women do not like someone who is dismissive of the other person.

[Yonivore]

Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?
As a matter of fact, it is.

[ChumpDumper]

Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?What are you implying?

[MannyIsGod]

Is this the same CBS that Dan Rather worked for?

CBS doesn't conduct the poll. They have a public resarch company that handles it such as gallup etc etc. The name of the company is right there in that picture.

The point is that whatever you feel about the news agency the conducting of these polls is done by 3rd parties who are not biased.

[ChumpDumper]

Goes with what I said in the other thread- Women do not like someone who is dismissive of the other person.Well, 40% of them do.

[MannyIsGod]

Goes with what I said in the other thread- Women do not like someone who is dismissive of the other person.

Yeah, thats a good point. I think generally McCain's body language was far more annoying that Barack.

I wonder how much his refusal to look at Obama will play.