RICHARD JEFFERSON opts OUT!!

[The Truth #6]

I'm guessing RJ has an arranged deal somewhere, otherwise he isn't THAT stupid to opt out is he?

Yeah, the Spurs don't have other great options now but RJ is basically a drag. The chances of him somehow improving were low and a trade was probably not going to happen in my opinion. I can deal with him leaving, but I just wish we knew this before the draft. Then we could have tried to buy a fucking pick to get someone like Pondexter. That's the part that rubs me.

[EricB]

Now that I think of it, if RJ signs with a team using cap space, a sign-and-trade is likely. Doing a sign-and-trade will allow the other team to save a bit of salary cap space this season. It'll then give the Spurs a large trade exception. Having a trade exception in this market is gold.

Now we have to pray that RJ is going to a team with cap space. In other words, let's hope RJ is going back to New Jersey.

Or New York.

Supposedly New York is interested AKA D'Antoni.

[baseline bum]

Now that I think of it, if RJ signs with a team using cap space, a sign-and-trade is likely. Doing a sign-and-trade will allow the other team to save a bit of salary cap space this season. It'll then give the Spurs a large trade exception. Having a trade exception in this market is gold.

Now we have to pray that RJ is going to a team with cap space. In other words, let's hope RJ is going back to New Jersey.

Or he ends up as Plan F in New York.

[coyotes_geek]

Not good. The Spurs pretty much have to bring RJ back. It was going to be a struggle to begin with for the Spurs to build up the neccessary depth to compete for a title. If RJ walks without the Spurs getting anything in return then they're screwed.

[spursfan1000]

JMcDonald_SAEN

Todd Eley, Jefferson's agent: “It’s not an issue of not wanting to be in San Antonio. It’s maximizing as many opportunities as you can."


hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[elbamba]

I am happy that Holt will not have to bite that bullet. Truth is that RJ would not have brought the Spurs anything they were willing to take on. This is it for the Spurs, they will not bring back a long-term contract just to get rid of RJ.

[The Franchise]

Tracy McGrady anyone? He will be taking an Iversonesque paycut this season, and he is better than anything else you guys can get for the money. If he is somewhat healthy, he could be a steal.

[slick'81]

Not good. The Spurs pretty much have to bring RJ back. It was going to be a struggle to begin with for the Spurs to build up the neccessary depth to compete for a title. If RJ walks without the Spurs getting anything in return then they're screwed.

no doubt cg things got hella interesting fast

[Marcus Bryant]

Also, it was not like the Spurs were really going to use Jefferson's expiring anyways. That only has value if you're willing to continue to stay above the lux tax threshold. The value for the Spurs would have been that he walked at its end.

Jefferson just saved Holt Cat a nice chunk of change.

[4>0rings]

Tracy McGrady anyone? He will be taking an Iversonesque paycut this season, and he is better than anything else you guys can get for the money. If he is somewhat healthy, he could be a steal.
McGrady only wants to play for contenders. The Spurs are done contending.

[spursfan1000]

Tracy McGrady anyone? He will be taking an Iversonesque paycut this season, and he is better than anything else you guys can get for the money. If he is somewhat healthy, he could be a steal.


At this point I woulden't mind this.

[EricB]

Also, it was not like the Spurs were really going to use Jefferson's expiring anyways. That only has value if you're willing to continue to stay above the lux tax threshold. The value for the Spurs would have been that he walked at its end.

Jefferson just saved Holt Cat a nice chunk of change.


Uh, you have a link for that?

All reports and things that have been said pointed to the Spurs using that contract as a trade sweetner..

[DesignatedT]

The Spurs will be either barely under or barely over the salary cap. Either way, they will still just have the MLE and LLE.

Alright thanks kori. I was about to go ape shit if that was the case

Sorry I'm on my phone hard for me to keep up

[Marcus Bryant]

My guess is the Spurs committed to re-signing him at a lower figure, provided he doesn't find a better deal elsewhere.

[EricB]

At this point I woulden't mind this.


Its time for you to step away from the computer and take a nap.

[edgar]

Richard opting out :greedy calls for a championship parade of its own on Friday! See You There!

:toast

:lobt:

With that said, lets work on next order of business. What to trade Parker for?

From Hoopshype.com
Chris Paul notwithstanding, the wild card in the point-guard market remains Tony Parker. One source said the Spurs are “hellbent on moving him,” but that will take time to play out. The Knicks are the most likely destination for Parker, but they need to address their top priority – LeBron – before they go down that road. CBSSports.com

[Marcus Bryant]

Uh, you have a link for that?

All reports and things that have been said pointed to the Spurs using that contract as a trade sweetner..

Did you really believe the Spurs would stay above the lux tax threshold indefinitely, especially on the downside of Duncan's career?

[jag]

Not counting the 96-97 disaster, these 5 would do:

Vinny Del Negro
Steve Smith
Samaki Walker
Paul Pressey
JR Reid

I actually liked watching Vinny play. The guy was smooth.

Cadillac Anderson
Corey Alexander
Nick Van Exel
Danny Ferry
Monty Williams
Doc Rivers...

[spursfan1000]

Alright thanks kori. I was about to go ape shit if that was the case

Sorry I'm on my phone hard for me to keep up


For some reason I can't post here on my phone :(

[coyotes_geek]

My guess is the Spurs committed to re-signing him at a lower figure, provided he doesn't find a better deal elsewhere.

I certainly hope that's the case. RJ does have a fair amount of leverage here. If it takes something like a 3yr-$24 mil deal to keep RJ, the Spurs pretty much have to cough it up.

[slick'81]

I actually liked watching Vinny play. The guy was smooth.

Cadillac Anderson
Corey Alexander
Nick Van Exel
Danny Ferry
Monty Williams
Doc Rivers...

dr rivers wasnt that bad lol

[The Great Fantastic]

This thread has so much classic TPark knee-jerk reactionary bullshit.

[L.I.T]

Not going to read through 21 pages (yet). And I'm sure this has been said already, but not good news for the Spurs as a team. Weakens the SF position (as in, no one there) and reduces dramatically our tradable assets.

I would be curious to see if behind the scenes the Spurs were working on shopping RJeff and he decided to take his own fate in his hands instead.

[Seventyniner]

I certainly hope that's the case.

What would be reasonable for the Spurs? 4 years, $28M? Or would RJ balk at that?

[The Franchise]

McGrady only wants to play for contenders. The Spurs are done contending.

The only problem with him saying that is that most contenders are already above the luxury tax, and are only going to want to pay him the vet minimum. Were the spurs to give him a 2 year 8 million deal (second year team option) I have a feeling he would jump at it.

[EricB]

Did you really believe the Spurs would stay above the lux tax threshold indefinitely, especially on the downside of Duncan's career?

Who said anything about indefinitely?

[SOMA Spur]

Lets say NY or NJ wants to spend 40 mil over 4 years on Dick. Spurs can sign and trade and receive a 10 mil trade exemption in return. They can then go out and use that chip now to find their starting SF. I think that's how it works. I'm sure RC has some sneaky shit like this up his sleeve...


Now that I think of it, if RJ signs with a team using cap space, a sign-and-trade is likely. Doing a sign-and-trade will allow the other team to save a bit of salary cap space this season. It'll then give the Spurs a large trade exception. Having a trade exception in this market is gold.

Now we have to pray that RJ is going to a team with cap space. In other words, let's hope RJ is going back to New Jersey.

Bingo. then we use that chip, make the trade now, not at the deadline, and bring in a SF that fits our system. If we land a guy making 10 mil, Holt will save 10 mil on salary and luxury tax next season. Its a win win win for everyone. Dick gets to play uptempo, Spurs get a better fit at SF, and holt saves 10 mil.

[Spursfan092120]

I think they're going to resign him to a smaller, more long term deal to save money...and that's why he's opting out...because he knows he's getting the deal. Just my thoughts.

[Das Texan]

I actually liked watching Vinny play. The guy was smooth.

Cadillac Anderson
Corey Alexander
Nick Van Exel
Danny Ferry
Monty Williams
Doc Rivers...



how many of those fuckers played 30 minutes a game again?

[team-work]

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My name is here too. RJ opting out as surprising as his trade to the Spurs last June. It makes Splitter's signing and faring well more important than ever. The FO will be busier finding another starting SF. His replacement will be much cheaper and at least won't be a big disappointment as RJ at this time next year.

[PublicOption]

dwayne wade.

[EricB]

I actually liked watching Vinny play. The guy was smooth.

Cadillac Anderson
Corey Alexander
Nick Van Exel
Danny Ferry
Monty Williams
Doc Rivers...

Take Ferry off that list.

Without Ferry they don't move on past the Suns in 2003.

Doc Rivers was a darn good player too.
Corey Aldexander Cadillac Anderson sure go ahead.

Add Jamie Feick to that list as well.

[coyotes_geek]

What would be reasonable for the Spurs? 4 years, $28M? Or would RJ balk at that?

JMO of course, but I'd think that's in the ballpark. 3 or 4 years in the $7-$8 mil per range.

[spursfan1000]

Take Ferry off that list.

Without Ferry they don't move on past the Suns in 2003.

Doc Rivers was a darn good player too.
Corey Aldexander Cadillac Anderson sure go ahead.

Add Jamie Feick to that list as well.


jacque vaughn worst in last 5 years ha

[SpursFanFirst]

Wow...this was posted less than 2 hours ago, and this thread is how long? :lol

He opted out. What's done is done. No use getting all upset about it. Good riddance, RJ.

[EricB]

RJ could get more than that I'd bet...

[DesignatedT]

For some reason I can't post here on my phone :(

iPhone

[timtonymanu]

Pretty much those posters who are against this move have said what i needed to say so i dont need to repeat it.

i really wanna hear what the front office has to say. I hope Marcus Bryant is right.

[spursfan1000]

iPhone


Well I have a samsung highlight (touch screen) and it always has some message saying that I can't post.

[Seventyniner]

JMO of course, but I'd think that's in the ballpark. 3 or 4 years in the $7-$8 mil per range.

At least it keeps the depth chart intact, and with a full MLE for Splitter and possible use of the LLE, the Spurs will be skirting the tax threshold. If we can stay under it, Holt will be very happy.

[timvp]

If the Spurs can't find a suitable replacement, I'm not entirely opposed to bringing back RJ. He's a bad fit but if the alternative is going ultra or depending on D-League talent, RJ for $8-9M a year isn't horrible.

Whatever the case, the Spurs can't waste this upcoming year. If the window is still open, it's likely open for only one more season. In a scenario where it's overpaying RJ or nothing, I'd rather overpay RJ.

[spursfan1000]

Wow...this was posted less than 2 hours ago, and this thread is how long? :lol

He opted out. What's done is done. No use getting all upset about it. Good riddance, RJ.


Everyone is thinking of what we should do next.

[PublicOption]

At least it keeps the depth chart intact, and with a full MLE for Splitter and possible use of the LLE, the Spurs will be skirting the tax threshold. If we can stay under it, Holt will be very happy.


...but who says that won't go over the cap for someone better?

[Spursfan092120]

If the Spurs can't find a suitable replacement, I'm not entirely opposed to bringing back RJ. He's a bad fit but if the alternative is going ultra or depending on D-League talent, RJ for $8-9M a year isn't horrible.

Whatever the case, the Spurs can't waste this upcoming year. If the window is still open, it's likely open for only one more season. In a scenario where it's overpaying RJ or nothing, I'd rather overpay RJ.
Absolutely perfect...exactly what I was thinking.

[manufan10]

I think they're going to resign him to a smaller, more long term deal to save money...and that's why he's opting out...because he knows he's getting the deal. Just my thoughts.

This is what I've been thinking.

[coyotes_geek]

RJ could get more than that I'd bet...

It's possible. The dangerous thing right now is that there are way more teams with cap room than there are big name free agents to eat up those cap spaces. There's an increased risk of the teams who lose out in the big name FA sweepstakes panicking and throwing around stupid money.

[DPG21920]

Ok, too lazy to read all the pages, but my thoughts:

1) Some people here have a severe lack of understanding pertaining to the salary cap.

2) I am very happy about this.

3) The reasons why are as follows:
a) Spurs weren't going to use RJ in a trade to upgrade in talent. That would require taking on a longer term contract and the Spurs were not likely to do that, even if it was a good basketball move.
b) While the Spurs certainly lose on "talent", I think people here are vastly overstating RJ's impact. I certainly think the impact RJ had could be easily replaced, even with limited money.
c) Spurs have tradeable assets now. They can use guys like Hill or Blair to fine tune their team and positions of need. So I think the panic is premature.

4) This saves the Spurs money and I think that is ok. No salary dumps needed.

5) This allows the Spurs to get a better fit; 3PT shooter and defender. Fit is more important than talent. Especially if Tiago comes over.

6) Spurs could become a player in FA if they wanted to. There are options.

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs can't find a suitable replacement, I'm not entirely opposed to bringing back RJ. He's a bad fit but if the alternative is going ultra or depending on D-League talent, RJ for $8-9M a year isn't horrible.

Whatever the case, the Spurs can't waste this upcoming year. If the window is still open, it's likely open for only one more season. In a scenario where it's overpaying RJ or nothing, I'd rather overpay RJ.

True. Who else is out there? Even at the MLE?

[EricB]

If the Spurs can't find a suitable replacement, I'm not entirely opposed to bringing back RJ. He's a bad fit but if the alternative is going ultra or depending on D-League talent, RJ for $8-9M a year isn't horrible.

Whatever the case, the Spurs can't waste this upcoming year. If the window is still open, it's likely open for only one more season. In a scenario where it's overpaying RJ or nothing, I'd rather overpay RJ.


Agreed 1000% and said that earlier.

While not the best player to have at SF, I'd take his 12 13 a game over having Malik Hairston or some other D Leaguer as the starting 3.

[slick'81]

if any team is willing to rj more than half of what he made last season then thats just sad

[Dex]

Since we have RJ's Bird Rights, we can resign him to whatever and still have the full MLE and LLE, correct?

[timvp]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin

[Seventyniner]

It's possible. The dangerous thing right now is that there are way more teams with cap room than there are big name free agents to eat up those cap spaces. There's an increased risk of the teams who lose out in the big name FA sweepstakes panicking and throwing around stupid money.

Unfortunately, you're right. If history has taught us anything, it's that there will always be a GM that will throw stupid money at a FA who doesn't warrant it. It only takes one GM to overpay a player. I just hope it'll be a team with cap space that we can sign-and-trade RJ to for a big trade exception, if that's the case.

[spursfan1000]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin


That'd be great!

[SpursFanFirst]

Thats not how the CBA works you fucktard....

Really? Eric, you're better than arguments like this. Just sayin...

[Spursfan092120]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin
ooh...Deng wouldn't be bad...I think..lol. Would he work in this system?

[coyotes_geek]

...but who says that won't go over the cap for someone better?

RJ opting out doesn't change the fact that the Spurs will still only have one MLE (that will get used on Splitter) and one BAE. If RJ walks, the Spurs have no way to replace him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Since we have RJ's Bird Rights, we can resign him to whatever and still have the full MLE and LLE, correct?

Yes. And I thought the Spurs could sign Splitter to a deal up to the average player salary (MLE level) without using the MLE.

[EricB]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin


Even though Luol Deng makes Willie Anderson look like AC Green health wise, I'd do that trade sure.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

The Spurs are fucked. Jefferson's expiring was the ticket towards getting a shooter or maybe someone who could stay in front of his man. James Anderson better be the next Stephen Jackson or the Spurs window has gone from closed to bolted shut and covered with a fucking 3-foot lead wall.

:lol:lol:lol

[spursfan1000]

ooh...Deng wouldn't be bad...I think..lol. Would he work in this system?


He does have a better jumper with better defense, only problem is he tends to get injured a bit, something we didn't really have to worry about with RJ, but also when RJ was healthy he wasnt really a plus.

[SenorSpur]

iPhone

Neither can I. I've tried to post here from my iPhone before. For whatever reason, can't do it.

[EricB]

Yes. And I thought the Spurs could sign Splitter to a deal up to the average player salary (MLE level) without using the MLE.


I thought they had to use the MLE itsself...

[coyotes_geek]

I thought they had to use the MLE itsself...

That's how I understand it.

[spursfan1000]

Neither can I. I've tried to post here from my iPhone before. For whatever reason, can't do it.


it'd be cool if i could post using my phone.too bad I can't.

[Birn]

This is good news for the Spurs. Definitely keeps them out of luxury tax territory. RJ did not have that much trade value to get anything significant in return. I really think he's going to be disappointed to see his true market value.

The Spurs are in a great position. There are plenty of options. My personal choice is Matt Barnes. He's a tough defender, battle tested, very rugged, and won't back down to anybody. He's fearless and not afraid to take big shots. Good 3 pt shooter and good passer. On top of that, he can probably be had for the LLE.

[Spurs Brazil]

Since we have RJ's Bird Rights, we can resign him to whatever and still have the full MLE and LLE, correct?

Yes

[EricB]

Really? Eric, you're better than arguments like this. Just sayin...


Apologies, but when statements are made like "Everythings great cause now we can go sign someone else" without even knowing the situation first its annoying.

[Spursfan092120]

He does have a better jumper with better defense, only problem is he tends to get injured a bit, something we didn't really have to worry about with RJ, but also when RJ was healthy he wasnt really a plus.
True...RJ has never had an injury problem...something the Spurs aren't used to...but Deng is a MUCH better defender. I'm starting to think we're either going to sign him to a smaller deal, or we let him know about a S&T that we're planning on. Only way he would drop 15 mill...

[EricB]

Neither can I. I've tried to post here from my iPhone before. For whatever reason, can't do it.


Unreal.

I did about 90% of my postings from last season from my iPhone.

Spurstalk works perfect for me under the mobile skin set up.

[manufan10]

I'm a little more excited about seeing how things are going to turn out. I know the Spurs may have been put in a horrible situation, but now I can't wait to see how everything plays out.

[SOMA Spur]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin

Exactly. This opens up all sort trade possiblities - for players or trade exemptions to use later. Very promising. It makes the Spurs players over the next few weeks. Before this we just has Splitter to look forward to. Now anything can happen

[spursfan1000]

I'm a little more excited about seeing how things are going to turn out. I know the Spurs may have been put in a horrible situation, but now I can't wait to see how everything plays out.


I'm a bit excited too now because this will basically force the Spurs to make some changes.

[Spursfan092120]

12:01 AM has just gotten a little more interesting...

[SenorSpur]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin

Not as far-fetched as one would think.

I read somewhere on ESPN.com today that the Bulls still need to clear up a bit more cap room to accomplish their goals for the summer. Of all the minor contracts they could move to accomplish this, the one contract they COULD or SHOULD move is Deng's.

As fragile as he's been over the past couple of seasons, he's still a very good player. I'd do this trade.

[jag]

Take Ferry off that list.

Without Ferry they don't move on past the Suns in 2003.

Doc Rivers was a darn good player too.
Corey Aldexander Cadillac Anderson sure go ahead.

Add Jamie Feick to that list as well.

Danny Ferry...fair enough.

Doc Rivers was ok. If youre putting a team together do you take RJ, or Doc? That was the main question. I'd take RJ over Carl Hererra as well.

[timvp]

True. Who else is out there? Even at the MLE?

Yeah, not much is out there. Hopefully whatever happens with RJ happens fast so that the Spurs aren't stuck with an empty cupboard.

[TD 21]

Stein makes an excellent point. The last player who shockingly opted out was Davis. Clearly, he knew what he was doing. Let's leave open the possibility Jefferson does, too.

I find it hard to believe, but maybe the Spurs told him if he opted out, they'd reward him with, say, a three year contract worth $21 million?

Maybe him and his agent just assume some of the teams with cap space will get shut out and when they do, they'll turn to players in his class?

Or if, say, the Heat re-signs Wade and signs Bosh, but James spurns them, they'll turn to him?

Who knows? But I've got to believe there is a method to his madness.

[EricB]

Danny Ferry...fair enough.

Doc Rivers was ok. If your putting a team together do you take RJ, or Doc? That was the main question. I'd take RJ over Carl Hererra as well.

Two different positions teams situations.

Impossible to compare.

Carl Herrera? Hell yes he was pathetic...

[DPG21920]

Deng is good, but again not the best fit.

[Stump]

What about a three-team trade that sends RJ to NJ, Luol Deng to the Spurs and opens up even more cap space for the Bulls? :smokin
Nifty idea, but why would New Jersey help out a free agency rival like Chicago?

[spursfan1000]

Deng is good, but again not the best fit.

He would probably fit in more than Jefferson.

[Mel_13]

Yes. And I thought the Spurs could sign Splitter to a deal up to the average player salary (MLE level) without using the MLE.

They're going to have use the MLE on Splitter.

That language you're using sounds like the provision to allow teams to resign their own FAs up to the value of the MLE that was added to the 2005 CBA to close the Arenas loophole.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Not as far-fetched as one would think.

I read somewhere on ESPN.com today that the Bulls still need to clear up a bit more cap room to accomplish their goals for the summer. Of all the minor contracts they could move to accomplish this, the one contract they COULD or SHOULD move is Deng's.

As fragile as he's been over the past couple of seasons, he's still a very good player. I'd do this trade.

i wonder if we can pull a KVH type of contract SIGN N TRADE unteed to the bulls and they just buy him out?

wouldnt mind noah, gibson or johnson on this team...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

wow talk about the door being shut.


Now we are in franchise limbo....making the playoffs with no chance at accomplishing anything

Like the Jazz in in the late late 90's and early 00's

[EricB]

Deng is good, but again not the best fit.

Beggars can't be choosers right now....

[DPG21920]

Nifty idea, but why would New Jersey help out a free agency rival like Chicago?

Good point as well.


He would probably fit in more than Jefferson.

Maybe, but enough to want to bring his fat contract on? I think not. Spurs aren't doing something like that unless it is a home run.

[coyotes_geek]

wow talk about the door being shut.


Now we are in franchise limbo....making the playoffs with no chance at accomplishing anything

Like the Jazz in in the late late 90's and early 00's

If the Spurs can't find a way to get RJ back, or at least S&T him with the Spurs getting a legitimate starting SF in return, that's exactly what they're going to be.

[The Truth #6]

If the sign and trade possibilities are real, then this is our best chance for this next season. It's a gamble, but it has more upside then expecting lazy ass RJ coming into camp motivated and willing to adapt his game.

I'm not saying this is a perfect situation, but having RJ on your team isn't a perfect situation either. Yes, he did play better in the playoffs but his contributions were more relative improvement than anything substantial.

Ok RC. Time to earn your paycheck.

[DPG21920]

Beggars can't be choosers right now....

Deng's contract is fat and longer than RJ's. No way you do that if your the Spurs just to get marginally better imo.

[slick'81]

If the Spurs can't find a way to get RJ back, or at least S&T him with the Spurs getting a legitimate starting SF in return, that's exactly what they're going to be.

sad thing is they could be there allready

all hail splitter

[DPG21920]

I think you guys are way overrating RJ's role and impact. Talent wise, its a loss. But talent does not matter. Look at what RJ did on the court. Look at his impact. That is not that difficult to replace imo.

I don't think the Spurs are much worse off. Maybe their bench depth, because the Spurs certainly could not survive RJ starting again.

[coyotes_geek]

sad thing is they could be there allready

all hail splitter

True.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

lmao richard jefferson is a twitter trending topic

[jag]

Two different positions teams situations.

Impossible to compare.

Carl Herrera? Hell yes he was pathetic...

Eric, if we're team captains about to start a pickup game...you're taking RJ over Doc. Now give me that. :lol

[Creation88]

resigning Jefferson to another deal would be a horrible decision. 1) he's a pile of crap 2) it'll extend the life of people to jump back off his bandwagon and label him the worst Spur ever.

him opting out is the best thing that could've happen to the Spurs. he had zero trade value, even in the middle of the season, so stop with the BS.

[MarHill]

wow talk about the door being shut.


Now we are in franchise limbo....making the playoffs with no chance at accomplishing anything

Like the Jazz in in the late late 90's and early 00's


Did we forget that TP wasn't healthy all season? And we saw what Manu was like when he's healthy.

Also, they need a SF who can make perimeter (especially the corner 3) and defend his position. They are not going to need all-world especially if the Big 3 still healthy this season.

[Agloco]

Apparently Richard Jefferson is opting out of his contract and becomes a free agent.Don't ask for a link or source, I can't give it to you. Come back and crush me later if Im wrong. Should be out there later tonight anyway.

I think most of us would just settle for you never posting here again. Cheers.

[EricB]

resigning Jefferson to another deal would be a horrible decision. 1) he's a pile of crap 2) it'll extend the life of people to jump back off his bandwagon and label him the worst Spur ever.

him opting out is the best thing that could've happen to the Spurs. he had zero trade value, even in the middle of the season, so stop with the BS.


I'm still waiting for that free agent your gonna sign to replace Richard Jefferson with...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Did we forget that TP wasn't healthy all season? And we saw what Manu was like when he's healthy.

Also, they need a SF who can make perimeter (especially the corner 3) and defend his position. They are not going to need all-world especially if the Big 3 still healthy this season.

"all we need is..."

Is a silly thing to say. Yes all we need is a SF that can shoot good threes and play d. We have needed that since Bowen left.

That's like saying all the Suns needed to beat the Lakers was a few more seven footers.

[4>0rings]

http://www.outlandishpodcast.com/images/huge-manatee.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

I think you guys are way overrating RJ's role and impact. Talent wise, its a loss. But talent does not matter. Look at what RJ did on the court. Look at his impact. That is not that difficult to replace imo.

I don't think the Spurs are much worse off. Maybe their bench depth, because the Spurs certainly could not survive RJ starting again.

Uh, no. Talent does matter. It matters a lot. Even as a bad fit he still put up numbers better than anyone who the Spurs could possibly get to replace him.

[pad300]

If the Spurs can't find a suitable replacement, I'm not entirely opposed to bringing back RJ. He's a bad fit but if the alternative is going ultra or depending on D-League talent, RJ for $8-9M a year isn't horrible.

Whatever the case, the Spurs can't waste this upcoming year. If the window is still open, it's likely open for only one more season. In a scenario where it's overpaying RJ or nothing, I'd rather overpay RJ.

I would not expect a long term contract from SAS. It's clear that post the next CBA, the team is going to crash and rebuild. Duncan and Manu gone. Parker an FA. Do they want to sign RJ (30 years old and doesn't fit) longterm at anything over the MLE? I doubt it. I think he is gone. The question in my mind is an S&T. For example, Chicago, If I understand correctly, needs just a little more space to be able to offer 2 max contracts. Something involving Deng for say RJ and 1 or 2 of our un-guaranteeds? That might work out to 32 million over 4 years for RJ, and give CHI another $3 million of capspace.

[TD 21]

I can't imagine he just decided this on a whim. No matter how miserable players are, generally they don't walk away from money that they can't even come close to making up (at least in a year). The only exceptions are guys like Pierce and Nowitzki, who are going to get massive extensions from their respective teams. Look at Curry, for example. He's miserable with the Knicks, they obviously don't want him, yet he picked up his option. So I don't buy that Jefferson walked away from this money just because he wasn't thrilled with the situation.

[jag]

Deng is good, but again not the best fit.

Agree. If you want a guy for spacing who can still provide scoring punch, you want someone like michael Redd...not Deng, and obviously not Jefferson. Either one is better than James Jones and his free agent scrub friends.

[Brazil]

I find it hard to believe, but maybe the Spurs told him if he opted out, they'd reward him with, say, a three year contract worth $21 million?



Why RJ would do that it's an extra 6 million for two more years ?

[EricB]

Eric, if we're team captains about to start a pickup game...you're taking RJ over Doc. Now give me that. :lol


:lol

Im ending it here.

Ok yes.

Done with this now :lol

[spursfan1000]

I can't imagine he just decided this on a whim. No matter how miserable players are, generally they don't walk away from money that they can't even come close to making up (at least in a year). The only exceptions are guys like Pierce and Nowitzki, who are going to get massive extensions from their respective teams. Look at Curry, for example. He's miserable with the Knicks, they obviously don't want him, yet he picked up his option. So I don't buy that Jefferson walked away from this money just because he wasn't thrilled with the situation.


Jefferson can still make 5-7 million a season while Curry probably won't make a NBA roster.

[Creation88]

I'm still waiting for that free agent your gonna sign to replace Richard Jefferson with...

i can sign a pile of dog shit and it'll give me a better run on the court. this team is BETTER without Jefferson even if we get no one in return.

at the very least we have more wiggle room for NEXT season. AND that alone is worth it.

[4>0rings]

wow talk about the door being shut.


Now we are in franchise limbo....making the playoffs with no chance at accomplishing anything

Like the Jazz in in the late late 90's and early 00's


Did we forget that TP wasn't healthy all season? And we saw what Manu was like when he's healthy.

Also, they need a SF who can make perimeter (especially the corner 3) and defend his position. They are not going to need all-world especially if the Big 3 still healthy this season.


"all we need is..."

Is a silly thing to say. Yes all we need is a SF that can shoot good threes and play d. We have needed that since Bowen left.

That's like saying all the Suns needed to beat the Lakers was a few more seven footers.

Basically

The Spurs are not beating the Lakers backcourt of 2-7 footers currently and realistically in the near future, just save the money and field some scrubs.

[Mel_13]

I think you guys are way overrating RJ's role and impact. Talent wise, its a loss. But talent does not matter. Look at what RJ did on the court. Look at his impact. That is not that difficult to replace imo.

I don't think the Spurs are much worse off. Maybe their bench depth, because the Spurs certainly could not survive RJ starting again.

Everyone does need to relax just a bit. It's not as if the Spurs are going play 4 on 5 without RJ.

RJ played about 32mpg last season with the results that we all saw. Let's say that those 32 minutes are covered by some combination of Anderson, Hairston, and Gee.

The question becomes:

What is the marginal loss in production from replacing RJ with those players? It may not be much.

Anyway, I'm not ready to jump off a bridge just yet. He could be resigned. He could be traded. We could get a bargain with the LLE. Let's give it a week or two and see how things shake out.

[EricB]

i can sign a pile of dog shit and it'll give me a better run on the court. this team is BETTER without Jefferson even if we get no one in return.

at the very least we have more wiggle room for NEXT season. AND that alone is worth it.


Sigh.....

Next season is the beginning of rebuilding.

Its getting blown up next season.

Next season for one might not happen, two, is the beginning of rebuilding.


Why can't you understand this?

[SpursTillTheEnd]

eric b is a dumbass if he thinks rj on this team would help us, nigga we have malik we dont need gay ass rj he fucking sucks, i guess u like having rj's balls in your mouth fucking fruit go be a gay mavs fan

[MarHill]

[QUOTE=Cant_Be_Faded;4461598]"all we need is..."

Is a silly thing to say. Yes all we need is a SF that can shoot good threes and play d. We have needed that since Bowen left.

That's like saying all the Suns needed to beat the Lakers was a few more seven footers.[/QUOTE

Okay Bowen left only 2 seasons ago and he was 38 years old. It was time to make a change.

Furthermore, the Spurs took a risk on RJ and didn't work. It happens and the Spurs FO are human. Wow what a shock?

Since RJ has opt-out....now they will have to find someone who can fill that role. It may happen or It may not happen.

But this is one of the consequences of being a good team consistently. Hmmph.

Since they have a good track record...I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

So it's not silly to write what they need to fill that spot!

Also, the fact your starting PG was injured most of last season...will play a big factor for this season when he's healthy.

[4>0rings]

eric b is a dumbass if he thinks rj on this team would help us, nigga we have malik we dont need gay ass rj he fucking sucks, i guess u like having rj's balls in your mouth fucking fruit go be a gay mavs fan
That dumbshit thinks Bonner helps spread the floor, pay no attention to Tpark.

[DPG21920]

Uh, no. Talent does matter. It matters a lot. Even as a bad fit he still put up numbers better than anyone who the Spurs could possibly get to replace him.

It matters at the top but not as it pertains to RJ. RJ was empty stats. Spurs don't need his numbers. Spurs can get someone with half his scoring but better defense and 3PT shooting at that is a net gain.

[5in10]

I think stein reported on Twitter that the spurs would resign him to a more cap friendly number.

[Sobe_Kucks]

look Richard Jefferson was a POS. his contract was inflated and the idea that he was a huge trade asset is a fucking pipe dream if i've ever heard of one. this team is better without him and his contract even if we can't get another player to fill his spot.

mid-year trades never work out anyway. i'd rather get Jefferson outta here now.


Sounds a lot like a description of Tracey McGrady??? Rockettes didn't end up too badly in that deal.

[coyotes_geek]

It matters at the top but not as it pertains to RJ. RJ was empty stats. Spurs don't need his numbers. Spurs can get someone with half his scoring but better defense and 3PT shooting at that is a net gain.

Does that "someone" have a name? And can that "someone" be signed for league minimum, the BAE, or whatever small fraction of the MLE may be left over after using it to sign Splitter?

[DesignatedT]

Neither can I. I've tried to post here from my iPhone before. For whatever reason, can't do it.

That's weird. I used to post on my 3g and now on the iphone 4. Never had any problems. On the very bottom left hand corner of the website you will see "flash enabled skin" maybe if you change that to iPhone when your on your phone it might start to work... no idea though.

[Agloco]

i can sign a pile of dog shit and it'll give me a better run on the court. this team is BETTER without Jefferson even if we get no one in return.

at the very least we have more wiggle room for NEXT season. AND that alone is worth it.

Now you're just being dumb.

[manufan10]

Everyone does need to relax just a bit. It's not as if the Spurs are going play 4 on 5 without RJ.

RJ played about 32mpg last season with the results that we all saw. Let's say that those 32 minutes are covered by some combination of Anderson, Hairston, and Gee.

The question becomes:

What is the marginal loss in production from replacing RJ with those players? It may not be much.

Anyway, I'm not ready to jump off a bridge just yet. He could be resigned. He could be traded. We could get a bargain with the LLE. Let's give it a week or two and see how things shake out.

That's why you have that nice medal.. :lol

Great post.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

That dumbshit thinks Bonner helps spread the floor, pay no attention to Tpark.
lmao i see now :lol

[Spursfan092120]

Now you're just being dumb.
This

[spursfan1000]

This


This.

[EricB]

That's weird. I used to post on my 3g and now on the iphone 4. Never had any problems. On the very bottom left hand corner of the website you will see "flash enabled skin" maybe if you change that to iPhone when your on your phone it might start to work... no idea though.

Yeah same here, 3G and 4 has been fine.

[MarHill]

Basically

The Spurs are not beating the Lakers backcourt of 2-7 footers currently and realistically in the near future, just save the money and field some scrubs.

Yeah....the Spurs FO should just give up trying to win a championship in TD's last years.

As long as he's on the team.....they will try to milk it to the end.

Sometimes...fans don't realize the price of success and think if you don't win it all every year......you should just tear it down rebuild.

Only if it was that easy.....

[Marcus Bryant]

wow talk about the door being shut.


Now we are in franchise limbo....making the playoffs with no chance at accomplishing anything

Like the Jazz in in the late late 90's and early 00's


But with 4 fucking titles.

:toast

[SenorSpur]

That's weird. I used to post on my 3g and now on the iphone 4. Never had any problems. On the very bottom left hand corner of the website you will see "flash enabled skin" maybe if you change that to iPhone when your on your phone it might start to work... no idea though.

will do. thanks

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Has anybody thrown Ron Mercer into the mix of worst Spurs players in recent history?

Because, you know, he was.

[EricB]

That dumbshit thinks Bonner helps spread the floor, pay no attention to Tpark.


?

Uh, in the regular season yes he does.

[DPG21920]

Everyone does need to relax just a bit. It's not as if the Spurs are going play 4 on 5 without RJ.

RJ played about 32mpg last season with the results that we all saw. Let's say that those 32 minutes are covered by some combination of Anderson, Hairston, and Gee.

The question becomes:

What is the marginal loss in production from replacing RJ with those players? It may not be much.

Anyway, I'm not ready to jump off a bridge just yet. He could be resigned. He could be traded. We could get a bargain with the LLE. Let's give it a week or two and see how things shake out.

This sums it up nicely. Spurs got out from under a financial rock, have multiple options (S&T, move TP and become a FA player...) and can quite easily fill up RJ's "stats" with our young guys.

I actually think they can get better, younger hustle players and defenders which will make this a net gain in terms of impact.

[galvatron3000]

Well, if the Wiz don't pick up the option on Howard ... We didn't have a Sf with Rj so I just don't see what the fuss is about. Put Hairston in or something.

[dbestpro]

This is going to be absolutely hilarious when the Spurs resign RJ.

[spursfan1000]

?

Uh, in the regular season yes he does.


Every 4-5 Games

[Creation88]

Now you're just being dumb.

really? were you the RJ fan in the crowd? no one in this fucking bandwagon liked him. i understand people valued his contract this coming season but ask yourself why?

someone brought up McGrady and the Rocket coming out on top. the only reason the Knicks did that was b/c McGrady came off the books for THIS FA year. everyone thinks that a player coming off the books is a good thing, but that is NOT the rule that's the exception (because this FA year is unlike any in history).

what team will want to bring on Richard Jefferson's expiring contract with no SUPERSTAR FAs in that coming FA summer?

the value people hold for that expiring contract is over blown. it's best that we get rid of Jefferson now even for nothing and give that time to someone else.

[TD 21]

Why RJ would do that it's an extra 6 million for two more years ?

Players want security. Maybe he figured one more down season in this system and he'd probably have to take a one year deal next season for at most the MLE (if it's still around in the new CBA; I hear it may not be) and could potentially risk bouncing around to team after team, making less by the year. Similar to a guy like Hughes. Players want security.

If Jefferson could secure a three year contract, as long as the money isn't ridiculously low, he'd have to strongly consider it. Like I said though, I find it hard to believe that the Spurs would be willing to give him that at this juncture. I'm just throwing out possibilities.


Jefferson can still make 5-7 million a season while Curry probably won't make a NBA roster.

Curry definitely will get another chance or two. He's 6-11, I believe turns 28 this year and can score in the low post. Bender, who had been out of the league for a few seasons just got another chance. Miles might get another chance, Williams (Sean) might get another chance.

[Sotongball21]

Remember the production of the guy who played sf before jefferson?
I don't think it will be much of a lost.

[EricB]

Has anybody thrown Ron Mercer into the mix of worst Spurs players in recent history?

Because, you know, he was.


What the hell Anthony Carter too....

[pad300]

This is going to be absolutely hilarious when the Spurs resign RJ.

I sincerely hope not. S&T him sure. But he's too bad of a fit to resign long term, with a new CBA coming up...

[DPG21920]

Does that "someone" have a name? And can that "someone" be signed for league minimum, the BAE, or whatever small fraction of the MLE may be left over after using it to sign Splitter?

Hairston, Gee, Anderson, James Jones, Wright, Gomes....

The combo of splitting up his minutes between some combo of those players will not result in any significant decrease. In fact, if they defend better, it could be beneficial.

This is not even taking into account and S&T opps.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

lmao richard jefferson is a twitter trending topic

:lol I just noticed that

[nadroj117]

resigning Jefferson to another deal would be a horrible decision. 1) he's a pile of crap 2) it'll extend the life of people to jump back off his bandwagon and label him the worst Spur ever.

him opting out is the best thing that could've happen to the Spurs. he had zero trade value, even in the middle of the season, so stop with the BS.

I don't think you understand why he was going to be a great trade value. It's not because someone would really want him and think he's worth 15 million. It's because they would be getting an expiring contract to get under the salary cap. He was going to be one of the best trade chips in the league.

[MarHill]

But with 4 fucking titles.

:toast

Marcus,

I believe Spurs fans forget that fact sometimes.

Celtics: 17
Lakers: 16
Bulls: 6
Spurs: 4

Most titles in the history in the NBA.

In the last 12 seasons only the Lakers, Spurs, and Mavs (1 time) have represented the West in the NBA Finals.

There ain't much parity in the league and when you're a top franchise (that's not the Lakers or the Celts)....other teams will not support you getting better.

[Marcus Bryant]

This is going to be absolutely hilarious when the Spurs resign RJ.

Basically. Of course, they could always lose out on him. Which, imo, isn't the worst case. I'm sure Hollinger has figured out that Jefferson's worth amounts to a +0.49 in win shares or what not.

Of course, if the FO thinks Parker is going to bail in a year, they might as well not make any more long term commitments.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What the hell Anthony Carter too....

AC gets the pass as the "don't kick a dog when he's down" award for the whole contract snafu and how it still makes me chuckle.

[jag]

Everyone does need to relax just a bit. It's not as if the Spurs are going play 4 on 5 without RJ.

RJ played about 32mpg last season with the results that we all saw. Let's say that those 32 minutes are covered by some combination of Anderson, Hairston, and Gee.

The question becomes:

What is the marginal loss in production from replacing RJ with those players? It may not be much.

Anyway, I'm not ready to jump off a bridge just yet. He could be resigned. He could be traded. We could get a bargain with the LLE. Let's give it a week or two and see how things shake out.


The problem for me is i remember how things were in 07 and 08. Even when the spurs won the title in 07 there was a huge issue with finding points.

Sure you can replace RJ's mintues with a tandem of guys who can collectively give you 15 ppg...but it's about how those points are scored. RJ had the ability to create on his own and give the "big 3" a break from the offense. Now you're back to hoping that Tim, Tony and Manu can create for others and initiate their own offense. Losing RJ is not the end of the world...but it added a dynamic that the Spurs hadn't had in a long time.

At his best he could take over games offensively and grab you 12 boards. His best was rare...but when he brought it the Spurs were hard to beat. And there was always that hope he could find his stride this season. understanding this system has never come easy.

[EricB]

Remember the production of the guy who played sf before jefferson?
I don't think it will be much of a lost.


Yeah bruce Bowen.

a once in a million shot...

[Creation88]

I don't think you understand why he was going to be a great trade value. It's not because someone would really want him and think he's worth 15 million. It's because they would be getting an expiring contract to get under the salary cap. He was going to be one of the best trade chips in the league.

exactly, people want him because they'd go under the cap to sign a potential Superstar FA. what i'm saying is that teams did THAT (take on expiring contracts) THIS year bc THIS year is unlike any other.

that in no way predicts teams would be willing (with the same aggression) do that when RJ's contract was up.

[EricB]

AC gets the pass as the "don't kick a dog when he's down" award for the whole contract snafu and how it still makes me chuckle.


Holy shit how could I forget in the same year.


Shane Whottt errr Heal...

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

What the hell Anthony Carter too....

Plus, to evaluate the worst players in recent history, I think value is a key factor.

Ron Mercer was either the worst signing ever (at the time) or the second coming of MJ according to all SpursTalkers.

[nbaman99]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/30/AR2010063004964.html

i don't know if this link posted or not but its true. Above is the link.

[coyotes_geek]

Hairston, Gee, Anderson, James Jones, Wright, Gomes....

The combo of splitting up his minutes between some combo of those players will not result in any significant decrease. In fact, if they defend better, it could be beneficial.

This is not even taking into account and S&T opps.

None of those players are anywhere close to being as good a player as RJ. S&T is an option, but even then you're probably looking at the Spurs having to accept a contract that will be worse than what you could keep RJ for.

[admiralsnackbar]

So is this confirmed? Still over the cap, with neither RJ nor his trade-bait contract to show for it... Unless he gives us some sort of S&T option (which will only net us someone at his shitty market value), we just got fucked with extreme prejudice.

Hear that? That was the sound of our window slamming shut. What a little bitch.

[Brazil]

Players want security. Maybe he figured one more down season in this system and he'd probably have to take a one year deal next season for at most the MLE (if it's still around in the new CBA; I hear it may not be) and could potentially risk bouncing around to team after team, making less by the year. Similar to a guy like Hughes. Players want security.

If Jefferson could secure a three year contract, as long as the money isn't ridiculously low, he'd have to strongly consider it. Like I said though, I find it hard to believe that the Spurs would be willing to give him that at this juncture. I'm just throwing out possibilities.



I see what you mean but I'm sure he would find a min two years deal for 6 million min after the next season if not in the nba at least in Europe. My bet is he has something around 30 million for 3 maybe 4 years offer

[DPG21920]

The problem for me is i remember how things were in 07 and 08. Even when the spurs won the title in 07 there was a huge issue with finding points.

Sure you can replace RJ's mintues with a tandem of guys who can collectively give you 15 ppg...but it's about how those points are scored. RJ had the ability to create on his own and give the "big 3" a break from the offense. Now you're back to hoping that Tim, Tony and Manu can create for others and initiate their own offense. Losing RJ is not the end of the world...but it added a dynamic that the Spurs hadn't had in a long time.

.

Spurs offense won't suffer imo. RJ hardly ever created his own points and never(rarely) gave the Big 3 a break. That was the problem.

Spurs need energetic players. Active, smart players. Some of the young guys have shown that.

TP should be back to form. Hill should help carry the scoring a bit more as well. Then if a guy like Anderson pans out, that is another offensive option to help.

[DPG21920]

None of those players are anywhere close to being as good a player as RJ. S&T is an option, but even then you're probably looking at the Spurs having to accept a contract that will be worse than what you could keep RJ for.

Once again, they are not as talented, but the Spurs weren't getting RJ's talent because he was such a bad fit. If they get a better fit, which those players likely are, they will get a net gain, even if they lose on "talent".

Sure RJ is a better player than all of them, but the Spurs got nothing from it.

Also, the Spurs weren't going to trade RJ for a worse contract (which is what they would have to do to upgrade). They can trade for an exception and use that to get a better, although less talented fit.

[nadroj117]

exactly, people want him because they'd go under the cap to sign a potential Superstar FA. what i'm saying is that teams did THAT (take on expiring contracts) THIS year bc THIS year is unlike any other.

that in no way predicts teams would be willing (with the same aggression) do that when RJ's contract was up.

No, your wrong. They do it every year. Not just for Lebron, wade, bosh. they do it because there are many tight owners out there that don't want to play dollar for dollar lux tax when they don't have a competing team. they will give away above average talent that has multiple years left on their contract to get under the cap the following year and save their owner money. This has been happening for years on end and there is no reason to think all of a sudden it's going to stop.

[EricB]

Plus, to evaluate the worst players in recent history, I think value is a key factor.

Ron Mercer was either the worst signing ever (at the time) or the second coming of MJ according to all SpursTalkers.

Well Mercer was involved in the Hedo trade so, and on top of it was all for a retiring Danny Ferry...

[coyotes_geek]

Once again, they are not as talented, but the Spurs weren't getting RJ's talent because he was such a bad fit. If they get a better fit, which those players likely are, they will get a net gain, even if they lose on "talent".

Sure RJ is a better player than all of them, but the Spurs got nothing from it.

The talent they were getting from RJ still far exceeds anything those other players have ever given anyone.

[Shastafarian]

So is this confirmed? Still over the cap, with neither RJ nor his trade-bait contract to show for it... Unless he gives us some sort of S&T option (which will only net us someone at his shitty market value), we just got fucked with extreme prejudice.

Hear that? That was the sound of our window slamming shut. What a little bitch.

It's confirmed he's opting out. The cap isn't totally set yet but the Spurs will have the MLE, LLE, and minimums probably no matter what.

[rayray2k8]

Guess we wait and see how this pans out. July 1st will be underway 2 hours from now.
Thinking the spurs resign Jefferson for less or hopefully a sign and trade..
Again, all we can do is wait and see.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Well Mercer was involved in the Hedo trade so, and on top of it was all for a retiring Danny Ferry...

That's right. My bad.

It's like Six Degrees Of Suck.

[jag]

Spurs offense won't suffer imo. RJ hardly ever created his own points and never(rarely) gave the Big 3 a break. That was the problem.

Spurs need energetic players. Active, smart players. Some of the young guys have shown that.

TP should be back to form. Hill should help carry the scoring a bit more as well. Then if a guy like Anderson pans out, that is another offensive option to help.

Last year's spurs were the best offensive team Duncan has played for. RJ allowed the spurs to sit two players from the big 3 for extended mintues and still stay competitive. That's a huge asset when Manu and Tim can't play more than 30 mpg.

[DPG21920]

The talent they were getting from RJ still far exceeds anything those other players have ever given anyone.

Well that is where we disagree. RJ for all his talent, was giving nothing more than an LLE player would imo, with occasional flashes of the talent he has.

Young players have to start somewhere and I would rather it be in RJ's place (which was useless) than somewhere else. Spurs could not recover from losing a TP talent, or a Manu talent in the same situation.

But an RJ talent, that is not that hard to overcome.

[Creation88]

someone explain how exactly we were gonna use the MLE and exceptions THIS year if we were already over the cap and into the luxury tax?

i thought it was one or the other.

[Agloco]

really? were you the RJ fan in the crowd? no one in this fucking bandwagon liked him. i understand people valued his contract this coming season but ask yourself why?

what team will want to bring on Richard Jefferson's expiring contract with no SUPERSTAR FAs in that coming FA summer?

the value people hold for that expiring contract is over blown. it's best that we get rid of Jefferson now even for nothing and give that time to someone else.

Red - The Milwaukee Bucks would like a word with you. Apparently you missed out on their rationale behind the RJ trade to SA.

Blue - "Someone" is such an easy answer now isn't it? Be more specific. And don't give me this shit about Hairston, Jerrels or Gee, yeddah yeddah, etc. or any other bubble-scrub filling in at SF during a championship run.....and yes, that's what the FO intended these next two years to be, championship runs.

The entire intent of the moves over the past year was to give the Spurs a shot at winning while Duncan was still around. Apparently you've lost sight of that vision since you advocate blowing things up now.

[DPG21920]

Last year's spurs were the best offensive team Duncan has played for. RJ allowed the spurs to sit two players from the big 3 for extended mintues and still stay competitive. That's a huge asset when Manu and Tim can't play more than 30 mpg.

Hill's jump played a large role in that. I don't think RJ was a big reason for the offensive burst. I don't think you see a major drop in per minute scoring for the Spurs.

I do think, if they can get a nice pick up for the LLE and a young guy to produce (Gee, Anderson, Malik...) you will see the defense improve enough to offset any offensive dip.

[Creation88]

Well that is where we disagree. RJ for all his talent, was giving nothing more than an LLE player would imo, with occasional flashes of the talent he has.

Young players have to start somewhere and I would rather it be in RJ's place (which was useless) than somewhere else. Spurs could not recover from losing a TP talent, or a Manu talent in the same situation.

But an RJ talent, that is not that hard to overcome.

agree 110%.

[galvatron3000]

I'm hoping sign and trade personally, simply because he doesn't fit. I hope this works out but I'm not bent out of shape from losing a player that just needs to be someplace else in a system that suit him. Perhaps now the teams with the systems he can thrive in or a pG who can push and find him or both will negotiate, if they haven't already. I'm thinking he will resign with SA and be dealt soon afterwards.

[timvp]

I'm not too worried about the situation the Spurs find themselves in. If the Spurs value RJ and believe that he's a long-term fit, they'll have a good chance to re-sign him to a reasonable deal. If RJ didn't fit in the locker room or if they believe he's a horrible fit, they have a good chance to S&T him. If RJ leaves and the Spurs have to replace him with a minimum-type player, at least that player will either be a better shooter or defender than RJ.

The main problem with RJ is his defense and shooting are weakspots ... and those are the two areas the Spurs need their small forward to stand out. If Splitter comes and TP regains his footing, the Spurs can cover the points they'll miss out with RJ leaving. In that sense, a role player who can either defend or shoot lights out isn't a bad option.

Now if the Spurs miss out on Splitter, I'll really start to worry. No Splitter and no RJ and the Spurs might as well start rebuilding.

[Agloco]

someone explain how exactly we were gonna use the MLE and exceptions THIS year if we were already over the cap and into the luxury tax?

i thought it was one or the other.

The MLE is one of the exceptions. Another is the LLE. They're specifically for teams who are over the cap.

[Creation88]

Red - The Milwaukee Bucks would like a word with you. Apparently you missed out on their rationale behind the RJ trade to SA.

Blue - "Someone" is such an easy answer now isn't it? Be more specific. And don't give me this shit about Hairston, Jerrels or Gee, yeddah yeddah, etc. or any other bubble-scrub filling in at SF during a championship run.....and yes, that's what the FO intended these next two years to be, championship runs.

The entire intent of the moves over the past year was to give the Spurs a shot at winning while Duncan was still around. Apparently you've lost sight of that vision since you advocate blowing things up now.

you thought Richard Jefferson was gonna be part of a Championship run? hahahahah :lmao

[benefactor]

Damn...I go out for dinner and come back to this? And to think I thought this would be a quiet evening.

Mel summed it up pretty good a couple of pages ago. Even if the Spurs wind up with the young guys filling the gaps, it won't be that much of a loss...especially if Splitter does come. The waiting game begins.

[spectator]

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN

it looks like the spurs are willing to offer a contract at a per-year figure that is easier on the cap - in that case, i doubt he will find a better offer. however, this kills the appeal of his contract (no more $15 mil for 1 year). if he signs for the spurs, i doubt some other team will trade for him.

[EricB]

That's right. My bad.

It's like Six Degrees Of Suck.


Its the gift that keeps on giving all year long - *Eddy from Christmas Vacation*

[TheChillFactor]

1. the guy scored like 3 ppg against phoenix. he didn't add shit to our team when it counted.

2. if you know the spurs you know they were just going to let him expire next year and save the tax money.

3. i think RC may have a sign and trade scenario up his sleeve, a lot of teams are going to be making moves, there's a chance we sneak into a 3 team deal or sign and trade for someone decent.

[Mugen]

RJ in a contract year >>>>> any realistic S&T option or any other FA sf.

Now we are just going to resign him to a more cap friendly LT deal and get a lazier version of RJ than what we would have had.

pretty bad situation for the spurs from a basketball standpoint.

[DPG21920]

Well yeah. No Splitter changes things drastically. The Spurs are at the proverbial fork in the road.

To the left: Splitter does not sign and they have to go into rebuild mode.

To the right: Splitter signs, they do a little maneuvering and give the title run one last shot.

[jag]

Hill's jump played a large role in that. I don't think RJ was a big reason for the offensive burst. I don't think you see a major drop in per minute scoring for the Spurs.

I do think, if they can get a nice pick up for the LLE and a young guy to produce (Gee, Anderson, Malik...) you will see the defense improve enough to offset any offensive dip.

I agree to an extent. I guess we need to remember that RJ wasn't the right type of player. They needed an outside scorer who could go off the dribble if needed. Those guys are hard to come by. Ray Allen's and Michael Redd's don't grow on trees. If the spurs find a guy who can spread the floor and penetrate if needed, then they won't miss RJ too much. If they don't find that...then they'll just end up with a few guys who play like RJ but aren't as good.

[admiralsnackbar]

It's confirmed he's opting out. The cap isn't totally set yet but the Spurs will have the MLE, LLE, and minimums probably no matter what.

In other words, the Spurs will have everything they already had, but not a giant expiring contract trade chip, or an under-performing, but serviceable, 3. Now we have to figure out how to address the outright hole at the SF position (where we were only thin before). Worse, since we'll have to make our money go farther, this could grievously impact the Splitter negotiations.

Not trying to be a gloomy bastard, but I don't see how we can manage to contend anymore short of a FO miracle. Seriously... I'm furious.

[DPG21920]

Damn...I go out for dinner and come back to this? And to think I thought this would be a quiet evening.

Mel summed it up pretty good a couple of pages ago. Even if the Spurs wind up with the young guys filling the gaps, it won't be that much of a loss...especially if Splitter does come. The waiting game begins.

DPG with no love. :lol

[galvatron3000]

Jefferson should get no more than $9 million a year here and that's pushing it because he's not creating anything, he can't defend and he is not a great or even good shooter perhaps decent and he is playing Sf.

[Shastafarian]

Unfortunately that's without a starting SF. So basically it's the same situation as they were in yesterday only now they need to spread the MLE, LLE, and minimum contracts to include a SF.


In other words, the Spurs will have everything they already had, but not a giant expiring contract trade chip, or an under-performing, but serviceable, 3. Now we have to figure out how to address the outright hole at the SF position (where we were only thin before). Worse, since we'll have to make our money go farther, this could grievously impact the Splitter negotiations.

Not trying to be a gloomy bastard, but I don't see how we can manage to contend anymore short of a FO miracle. Seriously... I'm furious.

Bingo

[DPG21920]

I agree to an extent. I guess we need to remember that RJ wasn't the right type of player. They needed an outside scorer who could go off the dribble if needed. Those guys are hard to come by. Ray Allen's and Michael Redd's don't grow on trees. If the spurs find a guy who can spread the floor and penetrate if needed, then they won't miss RJ too much. If they don't find that...then they'll just end up with a few guys who play like RJ but aren't as good.

I think just a 3 PT shooter (Mason before he sucked) who is a better defender is a win overall. I don't think you need a perfect fit, just a better fit than RJ for the team to prosper a little more if Tiago joins.

[tdunk21]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/spurs_jefferson_opts_out_of_contract_97529699.html


In a surprise move, Richard Jefferson has informed the Spurs that he intends to opt out of the final season of his contract and will become a free agent at midnight eastern time.
Jefferson was due to make $15 million next year. Opting out gives him the freedom to negotiate a long-term deal, in advance of a new collective bargaining agreement next season.

The move will move the Spurs below the luxury tax line, but not the projected salary cap. It does not necessarily mean the Jefferson era in San Antonio is over.

Jefferson, who arrived in a trade with Milwaukee last offseason, never quite reached expectations in San Antonio. He averaged 12.3 points and 4.4 rebounds in his first — and perhaps, only — season with the Spurs.

[admiralsnackbar]

someone explain how exactly we were gonna use the MLE and exceptions THIS year if we were already over the cap and into the luxury tax?

i thought it was one or the other.

CG can give you a better account, but the short answer is: No.

[galvatron3000]

They won't miss RJ at all no matter what happens, he just doesn't fit in SA

[DMX7]

Unless this was prearranged, it's over for him here.

[Agloco]

you thought Richard Jefferson was gonna be part of a Championship run? hahahahah :lmao

You think Hairston, Jerrels, Gee, <insert random scrub here>, etc. were going to be part of a championship run? :lol

"Over my dead body" - Greg Popovich

[024]

would it have really sucked if jefferson opted out and the spurs were stuck like $1 million under the cap? then they get no MLE and no cap room to sign splitter? is that how it works?

[jiggy_55]

Its 5 AM here, I woke up randomly and decided to read some twitter as the FA period just opened.

Saw this all over twitter, and I just went crazy. I'm still half asleep and I dunno what to make of this yet, we now have no extra money spend and no RJ either. Just wow.

[jag]

http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/11218/1195705788060062837S425x425Q85.jpg

Heyyyy

[Ocotillo]

I think the idea of a trade between now and Feb for his expiring was something of fools gold. I understand the theory but the odds were against a deal happening without the Spurs having to take back some albatross contract. That sort of trade would have still kept them in luxury tax land which won't be a good place to be when Timmeh hangs em up.

This does give the Spurs some flexibility and the possibility of doing something we haven't really thought of before, such as trading the rights to Anderson along with McDyess for some asset. Not suggesting that but simply saying, we have some inexpensive talent that could be paired with a re-signed Jefferson or McDyess to bring back something.

I would really like to know what the front office really thinks of this.

[Shastafarian]

CG can give you a better account, but the short answer is: No.

The short answer is he can get an answer to his question by looking at pretty much any page in this thread. Ok maybe that wasn't so short but he's being an idiot.

[DPG21920]

If you are over the cap, you get to use the MLE. You can also use the BAE/LLE (same things), but not two years in a row.

When you are over the cap, the way they allow you to sign players is to use the exceptions. If not, no team would be able to add FA's unless they were under the cap.

Only if you are under the cap by an amount that exceeds the MLE, would you not use the MLE exception, but use your cap space. Does that help?

[DPG21920]

You think Hairston, Jerrels, Gee, <insert random scrub here>, etc. were going to be part of a championship run? :lol

"Over my dead body" - Greg Popovich

Not necessarily, but I don't think you lose anything either. Or at least not enough not to be thrilled RJ is off the books and the owners save money.

[DesignatedT]

This off-season just became a whole lot more interesting.

[Agloco]

I think just a 3 PT shooter (Mason before he sucked) who is a better defender is a win overall. I don't think you need a perfect fit, just a better fit than RJ for the team to prosper a little more if Tiago joins.

I'm poppin wood for Ronnie Brewer myself. Yeah, I think he might fill the void nicely despite his shooting woes. Let the shooting coaches work on him 24/7 until the season starts.

[024]

If you are over the cap, you get to use the MLE. You can also use the BAE/LLE (same things), but not two years in a row.

When you are over the cap, the way they allow you to sign players is to use the exceptions. If not, no team would be able to add FA's unless they were under the cap.

Only if you are under the cap by an amount that exceeds the MLE, would you not use the MLE exception, but use your cap space. Does that help?
thanks.

[DPG21920]

I like Brewer, but certain people pulled a Hollinger on me and said he even sucks defensively.

[Brazil]

DPG with no love. :lol

well you are the only who seems to agree with creation and creation has for sure 0 love :lol

I read your argument and I understand it but I honestly believe that not having RJ will lead to a big hole at the SF spot and a mix of hairston, anderson, a lle guy won't be enough.

I also expected that an improved RJ next year combined with Splitter signing would give the spurs a last shot.

If RJ doesn't resign with the spurs it's a bad news:bang

[Agloco]

Not necessarily, but I don't think you lose anything either. Or at least not enough not to be thrilled RJ is off the books and the owners save money.

I agree in principle. When I post about Jefferson vs. Hariston, Jerrels, etc., I'm posting with Pop's veteran-love in mind. We cant lose sight of the fact that he's got a hard-on for vets and he simply wont fill the floor with the likes of Hill, Anderson, Blair, and Gee at the same time.

[Creation88]

Not necessarily, but I don't think you lose anything either. Or at least not enough not to be thrilled RJ is off the books and the owners save money.

same page here

[spurtech09]

not great news.....now the spurs don't have a SF.....even though he didn't play that good last season we really needed him for the new nba season .....there goes the spurs chances of the spurs being a contender.....

[Creation88]

I agree in principle. When I post about Jefferson vs. Hariston, Jerrels, etc., I'm posting with Pop's veteran-love in mind. We cant lose sight of the fact that he's got a hard-on for vets and he simply wont fill the floor with the likes of Hill, Anderson, Blair, and Gee at the same time.

talking about the same guy that ran a line up of Mahimi, Blair, Bogans, Mason, and Bonner last season. he'll do anything.

[Agloco]

I like Brewer, but certain people pulled a Hollinger on me and said he even sucks defensively.

:lol Who dat?

[DPG21920]

well you are the only who seems to agree with creation and creation has for sure 0 love :lol

I read your argument and I understand it but I honestly believe that not having RJ will lead to a big hole at the SF spot and a mix of hairston, anderson, a lle guy won't be enough.

I also expected that an improved RJ next year combined with Splitter signing would give the spurs a last shot.

If RJ doesn't resign with the spurs it's a bad news:bang

I can see people's worries and we won't know until next year. But I was not expecting some magical jump for RJ next year.

Also, my comment was just in reference to the fact they said Mel said it originally :lol,not the argument itself. Just a joke.

[Creation88]

not great news.....now the spurs don't have a SF.....even though he didn't play that good last season we really needed him for the new nba season .....there goes the spurs chances of the spurs being a contender.....

how the hell is losing RJ take us out of being a contender? it's void imo. he gain nothing, lose nothing.

[admiralsnackbar]

The short answer is he can get an answer to his question by looking at pretty much any page in this thread. Ok maybe that wasn't so short but he's being an idiot.

I'm warming up to your position.

[DPG21920]

I agree in principle. When I post about Jefferson vs. Hariston, Jerrels, etc., I'm posting with Pop's veteran-love in mind. We cant lose sight of the fact that he's got a hard-on for vets and he simply wont fill the floor with the likes of Hill, Anderson, Blair, and Gee at the same time.

See the thing is, just like with Finley, with RJ gone, Pop has no choice. You have to play the cards you are dealt.


:lol Who dat?

The higher ups...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

RJ consistently missed defensive assignments and rotations, had at best adequate one on one defense and was terrible at midrange and from three.

People clamor about his 12 ppg and 4 rpg but we got that from the likes of Roger Mason two years ago.

The main concern that I would have would be losing his size but quite frankly its not like he played to his size out there. His post up game consisted of missing fadeaways and his rebounding was putrid.

James Anderson and Malik Hairston could perform as well or better in the minutes that we are losing from RJ quite easily. I think one thing that is not commented on enough is that Anderson pulled down 6 rpg in 22 mins last season. For a guard that is tremendous.

This is not to say that I am happy to see RJ gone but that is from the basis of his more than likely improving in his second year in our system and nothing to do with losing or replacing his production from last season.

[Das Texan]

Yes. And I thought the Spurs could sign Splitter to a deal up to the average player salary (MLE level) without using the MLE.



i still dont know why he isnt slotted into the salary for when he was a first round draft pick.


is it because he stayed in europe?


still i thought signing a first rounder brought along different 'rules' than second rounders or free agents.

[EricB]

:lmao @ Malik Hairston being the replacement

[024]

i have mixed feelings about this. i am not paying the spurs' roster so for me, the spurs just lost a decent SF for nothing when they need all the help they can get.

[objective]

:lol @ the panic princesses

RJ didn't add points (9 points per game at 33 per in the playoffs), didn't add defense, didn't add hustle, didn't do much of anything. He wasn't who the Spurs turned to for points when the big 3 weren't clicking, it was Hill.

Who cares so much about 9 ppg in the playoffs with mediocre defense and zero floor spacing? Laugh at guys like Hairston and Anderson all you want, but I'm confident they could do similar but with more hunger and hustle.

Besides . . .

For all we know, this could be the move that helps the Spurs sign Splitter.

With RJ on the books, that makes every dollar they offered Splitter x2 due to the tax, and for all we know was the biggest hurdle in the negotiations, cheaping out on Splitter due to not wanting to effectively pay about 11.5 million a year for him. That's a lot of money in this economy for the league's poorest owner whose fortunes are tied to a struggling construction industry. This is the same team after all that cheaped out on Scola and didn't even want to give him Bonner money. Only after getting humiliated in the first round did the Spurs and Holt come to their senses.

Now that the tax is no longer an obstacle, they can offer Splitter the full MLE for effectively half the cost of what it would have been with RJ.

Spurs with Splitter and no RJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spurs with just 30 year-old RJ's 9 points, uninspired play, and lazy defense and no Splitter.

The only downside is that it gives Pop an excuse to bring back THE CENTERPIECE.

[Agloco]

I agree in principle. When I post about Jefferson vs. Hariston, Jerrels, etc., I'm posting with Pop's veteran-love in mind. We cant lose sight of the fact that he's got a hard-on for vets and he simply wont fill the floor with the likes of Hill, Anderson, Blair, and Gee at the same time.


talking about the same guy that ran a line up of Mahimi, Blair, Bogans, Mason, and Bonner last season. he'll do anything.

:rolleyes

Sigh.......you know full well what I meant. He's not putting shit like that out there during the playoffs. Notice now his man-love for Blair shriveled up quickly once the playoffs rolled around? He's a vet lover, like it or not. He sticks with them in the end. The good news for Hill and Blair is that they have another year under their belts. I don't think that the others qualify in Pops mind though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao @ Malik Hairston being the replacement

I have to say that its funny watching you meltdown and panic. I hope this is just your online persona because you strike me as someone that is worthless in times of crisis perceived or real.

[DPG21920]

:lmao @ Malik Hairston being the replacement

Who is a better defender, Malik or RJ?

Also, it won't just be Malik. It will be a combo of players. Point is, losing RJ does not leave some gaping hole.

[ohmwrecker]

agree 110%.

You two should go find another chat room to be stupid in.

I was hoping the dumb would've died down by now.

[Mugen]

so if RJ leaves and we are a little bit under the cap, that does that mean we can take back a player via trade from one of the teams wanting to get even more cap space without giving up anybody in return? (Deng, W. Chandler, etc..)

[EricB]

I have to say that its funny watching you meltdown and panic. I hope this is just your online persona because you strike me as someone that is worthless in times of crisis perceived or real.

I'm still dying laughing at the thought that no jump shot Hairston is the "replacement" :lmao

[Creation88]

:lmao @ Malik Hairston being the replacement

young, athletic and a body. being a body alone makes him equal to the output of Jefferson.

[Zero_Twilight]

Wow, is this true?

*I don't know what is happening behind the scenes, but if RJ came to this decision on his own;I've gotta say

"Fuck You RJ."

I thought he was going to turn it around in his second season with the Spurs but you know, you can't confuse loyalty with obedience you know, what? You know, you know, huh? You know........no.
































You know?

[Agloco]

See the thing is, just like with Finley, with RJ gone, Pop has no choice. You have to play the cards you are dealt.


Rest assured, he'll sit Buford's ass down ask for a re-deal if that's all he's got.

Methinks Pop might blow his stack if he's got more than 2 "noobs" to deal with at once.

[Ocotillo]

I agree in principle. When I post about Jefferson vs. Hariston, Jerrels, etc., I'm posting with Pop's veteran-love in mind. We cant lose sight of the fact that he's got a hard-on for vets and he simply wont fill the floor with the likes of Hill, Anderson, Blair, and Gee at the same time.

Pop may not have a choice....... also, if we do sign Splitter, he is another young, inexperienced guy.

[ulosturedge]

RJ's defense was shit and his offense was shit. Not gonna be hard to fill his void. The only thing it hurts is our depth. RJ making or breaking our team? Really??

[EricB]

young, athletic and a body. being a body alone makes him equal to the output of Jefferson.


Yeah just having someone "out there"

Great analysis.

[toki9]

i still dont know why he isnt slotted into the salary for when he was a first round draft pick.


is it because he stayed in europe?


still i thought signing a first rounder brought along different 'rules' than second rounders or free agents.

From Larry Coon's FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm): "When a team signs a first round draft pick within three years after he is drafted, they use the salary scale for the year in which he signs (usually the player signs in the same year he is drafted). After three years they have the option of either using the salary scale or signing him like he was a free agent -- using their cap room, the Mid-Level exception, the exception or the Disabled Player exception, and with standard raises. They can only do the latter if the player did not play intercollegiately in the interim, and such a contract must be for at least three seasons."

[DesignatedT]

I'm still dying laughing at the thought that no jump shot Hairston is the "replacement" :lmao

I'm with you on this one.

[Buddy Holly]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)

Christmas morning in Spurs front office with Richard Jefferson opting out of $15 million. Incredible.

What? Mr. Sunshine EricB thinks everything's in the shitter now. :lol

[DPG21920]

Hell, it might not even be Malik at all. He is no lock. But a trade (Hill or Blair for a SF), or an LLE player or a young guy could all replace RJ and fit better.

[Creation88]

Yeah just having someone "out there"

Great analysis.

are you the guy RJ left his fiance at the alter for? why are you so far up his ass? he was worthless on the court. why does someone have to remind you of his inability to insert himself, rotate, and become a team player?

[DPG21920]

so if RJ leaves and we are a little bit under the cap, that does that mean we can take back a player via trade from one of the teams wanting to get even more cap space without giving up anybody in return? (Deng, W. Chandler, etc..)

We are not under the salary cap, but the luxury tax line. There are two different "caps" when thinking about the two.

If the Spurs were under the cap, they could trade for a player who's salary would not push them over the cap and not give anything in return (in theory).

[Buddy Holly]

I look at this as a positive as it now gives the Spurs room to really do a trade.

[ohmwrecker]

Hell, it might not even be Malik at all. He is no lock. But a trade (Hill or Blair for a SF), or an LLE player or a young guy could all replace RJ and fit better.

So, now you are trading away our two best young players to replace RJ, who, in your estimation, was worthless to begin with.

I think your bucket has a hole in it.

[Vic Petro]

I agree with most of what DPG is saying. Talent means nothing. Production means everything. Richard Jefferson was barely a league average player last year.

I believe this is a good thing for the Spurs because Jefferson played soft all year and that wasn't likely to change with familiarity. I know this is a subjective thing, but he's just a soft player imo. Gimme a guy with less talent that busts his ass over a great talent who gets passive when his coach yells at him. I'd really be shocked if Jefferson is ever anything more than a bit player on a championship team.

I don't believe the Spurs are going to sign him back to a more cap friendly deal. It was so far from working last year, can they really want to commit long term on the chance that it will work in the future? Is there any evidence it would work in the future? As much as we want to go all-in this year, there is basketball after Tim retires. You still have to be responsible.

I do think there is some credence to the talk of a sign and trade, though.

I wish we could get Mbah a Moute and let Engelland get a hold of him.

[DesignatedT]

Could be a good move for us could be a bad move... time will only tell. Fact is the Spurs need someone better than Malik Hairston to be the starting SF.

[Brazil]

I can see people's worries and we won't know until next year. But I was not expecting some magical jump for RJ next year.



neither do I but I would have welcomed even a slight improvement.

Add Tiago in the mix and Pop wouldn't have used anymore RJ as PF, less small ball + anderson coming to give us the shooting we need and I was quite happy with next season roster.

Now what ? expect hairston / temple and anderson will provide 30 quality minutes every game ? It's a difficult gamble especially when this is maybe the last Tim Duncan season

[SpursTillTheEnd]

hariston plays way better d than jefferson, hariston can score better than jefferson, so whats so funny? get off of rj's balls hariston>rj, and hariston would of proved it if he would of played more

[EricB]

I look at this as a positive as it now gives the Spurs room to really do a trade.

Really?

Other teams banging down the door for Malik Hairston are they?

[Das Texan]

James Anderson better be able to shoot the ball at the NBA level.


Couple that with Splitter arriving and finding a suitable point guard and some bench depth and this team could be ok as it is now.

I still fully believe this is your starting lineup next year:


C Splitter
PF Duncan
SF Manu
SG Hill
PG Parker

Top reserves:

Anderson
Blair
McDyess
(add in a wing)
(add in a point)


I'd take my chances with that as long as everyone stays healthy. If they dont then it really doesnt matter anyway.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah just having someone "out there"

Great analysis.

Plenty of people have talked about the statistical production on offense, rebounding and the more-or-less intangible relative defensive production.

Its very easy to quantify what needs replacing and quite frankly because Jefferson was so bad, its not that hard.

Hairston at this point would make the most sense to replace him in the starting lineup but whats important is how the 31 mpg are divvied up.

Your histrionics and stupidity are entertaining and all but you bring no insight whatsoever.

[Kindergarten Cop]

i still dont know why he isnt slotted into the salary for when he was a first round draft pick.


is it because he stayed in europe?


still i thought signing a first rounder brought along different 'rules' than second rounders or free agents.

I'm pretty sure that a player essentially becomes an "unsigned FA" after the three year mark of being drafted, but the team that drafts that player still retains his rights of course. The team is then no longer limited by the first round salary scale.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

I'm still dying laughing at the thought that no jump shot Hairston is the "replacement" :lmao

Yeah, and RJ's jumpshot was soooo money, right?

Good riddance. RJ sucked. Stick any Austin Toro in that spot, and he'll match RJ's numbers at a fraction of the price, and we're going to need that dough.

[DPG21920]

So, now you are trading away our two best young players to replace RJ, who, in your estimation, was worthless to begin with.

I think your bucket has a hole in it.

Where did I say he was worthless? I said his production would not be hard to replace and if the Spurs could get a better fit, even with less overall talent, it would be a net gain.

Looks like you have nothing of significance to add.

[Spurminator]

I can't believe it's come to this after the excitement of the trade last summer.

[TD 21]

I see what you mean but I'm sure he would find a min two years deal for 6 million min after the next season if not in the nba at least in Europe. My bet is he has something around 30 million for 3 maybe 4 years offer

I'd be very surprised if someone offered him that, even the teams that inevitably miss on all of the big names.


I'm not too worried about the situation the Spurs find themselves in. If the Spurs value RJ and believe that he's a long-term fit, they'll have a good chance to re-sign him to a reasonable deal. If RJ didn't fit in the locker room or if they believe he's a horrible fit, they have a good chance to S&T him. If RJ leaves and the Spurs have to replace him with a minimum-type player, at least that player will either be a better shooter or defender than RJ.

The main problem with RJ is his defense and shooting are weakspots ... and those are the two areas the Spurs need their small forward to stand out. If Splitter comes and TP regains his footing, the Spurs can cover the points they'll miss out with RJ leaving. In that sense, a role player who can either defend or shoot lights out isn't a bad option.

Now if the Spurs miss out on Splitter, I'll really start to worry. No Splitter and no RJ and the Spurs might as well start rebuilding.

Excellent post.

[Seventyniner]

So if RJ opting out is so bad for the Spurs (as in screwing the depth chart), why are all the analysts (Woj, Stein, hell even Bill Simmons) acting like the Spurs just won the lottery? What are we missing?

[Mugen]

James Anderson better be able to shoot the ball at the NBA level.


Couple that with Splitter arriving and finding a suitable point guard and some bench depth and this team could be ok as it is now.

I still fully believe this is your starting lineup next year:


C Splitter
PF Duncan
SF Manu
SG Hill
PG Parker

Top reserves:

Anderson
Blair
McDyess
(add in a wing)
(add in a point)


I'd take my chances with that as long as everyone stays healthy. If they dont then it really doesnt matter anyway.

that bench is garbage. tp and manu would be dead by christmas.