Any Popsuckers gonna do some damage control?

[exstatic]

Lonnie seems to be doing well these days, we gave up on him too early imo.



GP
MIN
FG%
3P%
FT%
REB
AST
BLK
STL
PF
TO
PTS


9
21.3
51.5
45.5
77.3
3.0
2.2
0.6
0.6
1.0
1.1
15.4



Lonnie can’t play defense, at all. That’s why he’s coming off the bench, even with these numbers.

[The Truth #6]

I think people are ready to give up on Jeremy and Keldon too soon; Lonnie I'm less worried about at this point, though wish him the best, et cetera.

[Arcadian]

:lol It's funny that you start a post with "let me get this straight" and then completely miss what I said. Classic Fabbs.

They do miss him on lobs, but that likely isn't deliberate. Victor sucks at establishing position and drawing or avoiding contact in the low block. In fact, he is far better as the high man than the low man so far. Once Vic knows what he us and is not good at, they can work to improve him. It's a whole new world under the basket for him.

At one point in the last game, Victor was out at the perimeter, and he dumped the ball down to Keldon Johnson in the post.

I was like...what kind of bizarre upside down world is this where the 7'4 guy is delivering, rather than receiving, the entry pass? :lol

[tbdog]

At one point in the last game, Victor was out at the perimeter, and he dumped the ball down to Keldon Johnson in the post.

I was like...what kind of bizarre upside down world is this where the 7'4 guy is delivering, rather than receiving, the entry pass? :lol

LOL. Tbh, probably the easiest entry pass.

[Obstructed_View]

At one point in the last game, Victor was out at the perimeter, and he dumped the ball down to Keldon Johnson in the post.

I was like...what kind of bizarre upside down world is this where the 7'4 guy is delivering, rather than receiving, the entry pass? :lol
He has really good touch with it. He's probably thinking, "see how easy this is?"

I'd like to see him with Bassey or Dom at the low spot. Keldon has good hands but he's too small and Zach can't do anything with the ball once he gets it.

[Sugus]

eh if we're all just gonna go around and say "well im sure they know better than me" then theres really no point in being on a forum. we can all read news about transactions, can all read box scores, etc. we're here to give takes. none of us here claim to be pros

I see what you mean, but I also saw you wanting more clarification about what terms are being discussed a while ago (not specifically on this topic, but I remember it was you making the remark, and I thought it was quite appropriate, since it was a shit discussion, typical ST arguing 4 different things at once).

All I've been doing is narrowing down and giving some further thought to the "good pick vs bad pick" debate that inevitably arises whenever Primo or Luka or whomever is discussed. On this topic in particular, I think it's important to separate the "there was a clear vision that didn't work out" picks (which I would mostly argue are good picks, always of course relative to picking # and available prospects in that draft), from the "Ayton played college in Phoenix and we are a team in Phoenix that could use a local kid instead of the scary foreign Euro" picks, which I think are unquestionably bad.

I feel like you would agree with this assessment, but then again, you said Luka as a bad pick earlier, and that's why I'm making all these comments. I thought you particularly might've appreciated this nuance, but alas, maybe I misremembered the poster?

[Sugus]

As SR21 said, I like the Lonnie pick. He had value and is clearly an NBA player. Just didn't work out. Samanic was a home run swing like Wesley was. Again, I don't hate it. Primo was a reach but nobody knew he was a perv. The Spurs have a pretty impressive young lineup that came exclusively from the draft.

Exactly. Lonnie, Luka, Wesley, none of them are bad picks, even if Blake never gets to be an NBA-level PG and Lonnie doesn't sign another contract. Many things in life are "numbers games" with swings and misses being part of the process.

I've changed my mind on the Primo pick though. I didn't like it at the time (team Sengun baby), but ended up liking Primo the project, so I wasn't too mad - but on retrospective, I cannot see that there was sufficient evidence of Primo having elite untapped potential in order to spend such a high pick on him. Samanic was a 19th pick, while Primo was 12th. Doesn't seem like a lot of difference in numbers, but it certainly is on terms of rookie-scale salaries, pick expectations, and general "bang-for-buck" factor.

I don't mind a wild swing at 19, but would definitely need more substantial proof before I made the same swing 7 picks earlier. And to be honest, the more I think on it, the better I like Luka the prospect than Primo the prospect, nevermind their drafting spot :lol

[JeffDuncan]

…
this guy also pointed out schematic issues as far as switches. im skeptical that they'd actually want collins to be switching onto guards, and having somebody like vassell switch onto bam...
…



In some of that video the fellow said “switching” when he was actually just talking about hedging. The basic idea is that, against the screen, Collins should step out, and up, to block or at least impede the ball handler, giving Vassell (or whoever) time to get over the screen. It’s a fundamental maneuver for defense against a screen. Hedging is also used in some other ways, and every player in the NBA, regardless of his position or playing style, should know hedging. Too bad the Spurs don’t.

[Obstructed_View]

Exactly. Lonnie, Luka, Wesley, none of them are bad picks, even if Blake never gets to be an NBA-level PG and Lonnie doesn't sign another contract. Many things in life are "numbers games" with swings and misses being part of the process.

I've changed my mind on the Primo pick though. I didn't like it at the time (team Sengun baby), but ended up liking Primo the project, so I wasn't too mad - but on retrospective, I cannot see that there was sufficient evidence of Primo having elite untapped potential in order to spend such a high pick on him. Samanic was a 19th pick, while Primo was 12th. Doesn't seem like a lot of difference in numbers, but it certainly is on terms of rookie-scale salaries, pick expectations, and general "bang-for-buck" factor.

I don't mind a wild swing at 19, but would definitely need more substantial proof before I made the same swing 7 picks earlier. And to be honest, the more I think on it, the better I like Luka the prospect than Primo the prospect, nevermind their drafting spot :lol
I hated the Primo pick more than any Spurs pick since Bill Curley. The fact that there were so few useful players after him took some sting out of it, and there is no point in gloating because he had character issues. Like you said, I don't mind a reach, but I'm mystified at what the Spurs think they saw to get him. He was basically the last nail in the coffin of our hopes that the Spurs will ever draft a traditional point guard.

[spurraider21]

I hated the Primo pick more than any Spurs pick since Bill Curley. The fact that there were so few useful players after him took some sting out of it, and there is no point in gloating because he had character issues. Like you said, I don't mind a reach, but I'm mystified at what the Spurs think they saw to get him. He was basically the last nail in the coffin of our hopes that the Spurs will ever draft a traditional point guard.
i remember after the draft timvp's initial comments were mostly focused on primo's character too :lol

[Obstructed_View]

In some of that video the fellow said “switching” when he was actually just talking about hedging. The basic idea is that, against the screen, Collins should step out, and up, to block or at least impede the ball handler, giving Vassell (or whoever) time to get over the screen. It’s a fundamental maneuver for defense against a screen. Hedging is also used in some other ways, and every player in the NBA, regardless of his position or playing style, should know hedging. Too bad the Spurs don’t.
Yeah you have to direct your man to spots that allow teammates to help defend. Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan were beyond elite at that. But this year's Spurs team allows the opponent to get wherever they want all the time. They will back our defenders up until one or two are woefully out of position. Its like clubbing baby seals.

[Seventyniner]

I hated the Primo pick more than any Spurs pick since Bill Curley. The fact that there were so few useful players after him took some sting out of it, and there is no point in gloating because he had character issues. Like you said, I don't mind a reach, but I'm mystified at what the Spurs think they saw to get him. He was basically the last nail in the coffin of our hopes that the Spurs will ever draft a traditional point guard.

Well, the Spurs had taken Tre the previous year and he has provided great value for a #41 pick. Not quite as much as Jokic but still not bad.

Your point stands, though. The Spurs didn't draft Tre to be a long-term starter. I was just nitpicking a bit.

[Obstructed_View]

i remember after the draft timvp's initial comments were mostly focused on primo's character too :lol
Clearly it's possible to be a team-oriented, thoughtful intelligent player who shows his dong to people.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, the Spurs had taken Tre the previous year and he has provided great value for a #41 pick. Not quite as much as Jokic but still not bad.

Your point stands, though. The Spurs didn't draft Tre to be a long-term starter. I was just nitpicking a bit.
And Tre is as successful a pick as you could ever hope for. He is as close to the best version of himself you could expect a player to be. All the more questionable why they never picked any other point guards.

[Mugen]

I think a really underrated aspect of the coaching job that Pop has done so far this season is just how well the young guys respond to him. There were numerous games this season where they could have packed it and lost by 50. But instead, they got over themselves and only lost by 40.

There's some criticism that maybe, just maybe the oldest coach in the league isn't the best fit for the youngest team in the league. But I dare you to find me one example of an older coach having the game pass him by in ANY sport. That's right you, you can't! And I'm glad my man Pop is continuing that trend tbh.

[spurs1990]

Mugen old man is so sewn into that city’s sports conscience there’s no one in that org that would show him the door. There’s no Jerry Jones in SA. Hell they don’t even have a lone figure running the show. You look up word entrenched and coach’s face is Figure 1A

[jeebus]

Reporter tonight: Pop are you ever going to start coaching these young players?

Poop: That's family business. Pocket sand shashaa! Let's talk about some congressman tonight instead.

[DAF86]

timvp grade for Pop: B-.

[Blizzardwizard]

"They're young, they're learning."

"They just lost by 40 aga-"

"Did you know Tommy Tuberville was a coach once? Unbelievable."

"..."

"Alright guys. Take care."

[buttsR4rebounding]

The highest paid coach in the league who doesn't coach. No wonder he'll never get over himself.

[Chinook]

The highest paid coach in the league who doesn't coach. No wonder he'll never get over himself.

I said in the game thread that any other coach would be a real risk of losing his job. Pop has tenure, but it wouldn't surprise me if he "steps down" way earlier than expected (like the end of this season). His schemes suck. His game-plans suck. His adjustments sucks. The mood from the players sucks. His "wait and see" approach for Victor could've made sense if it didn't seem like the lack of structure was hurting Wemby and frustrating him. Besides the performance of the team, Pop's job is to make sure Wemby's transition to the NBA goes as well as possible, and I don't see that yet. Still a ton of time, but I don't think it was inevitable that Victor would struggle like this.

[Mugen]

I said in the game thread that any other coach would be a real risk of losing his job. Pop has tenure, but it wouldn't surprise me if he "steps down" way earlier than expected (like the end of this season). His schemes suck. His game-plans suck. His adjustments sucks. The mood from the players sucks. His "wait and see" approach for Victor could've made sense if it didn't seem like the lack of structure was hurting Wemby and frustrating him. Besides the performance of the team, Pop's job is to make sure Wemby's transition to the NBA goes as well as possible, and I don't see that yet. Still a ton of time, but I don't think it was inevitable that Victor would struggle like this.

Absolutely zero chance that selfish fuck does that tbh :lol

[Chinook]

Absolutely zero chance that selfish fuck does that tbh :lol

Basically I could see the team turning toxic enough to where he gets fired but it's framed as "stepping down" to save face.

[NASpurs]

Is the defense actually worse this year than last years's historically bad team? :lol Takes a special kind of coach to accomplish that after adding a generational player

[vander]

Absolutely zero chance that selfish fuck does that tbh :lol

why step down when you're getting paid to do nothing?

[timtonymanu]

I totally support every player pulling a Deron Williams on him. Take your 5 rings and enjoy retirement, Pop. You’re clearly not a fit for this league anymore.

[Mugen]

Basically I could see the team turning toxic enough to where he gets fired but it's framed as "stepping down" to save face.

Forced out by who? F'n Wright? :lol

RC won't do it. Local media won't say shit. Hell, the majority of fans wouldn't even go for it. Even in this thread, you got Sniffers like ex, Sugus, and Obstructed saying he's doing an amazing job this season. Every single "star" player he's coached since Timmy has left has wanted out and e's still here not giving a fuck on the bench night in, night out. He's untouchable :lol

[Chinook]

Forced out by who? F'n Wright? :lol

RC won't do it. Local media won't say shit. Hell, the majority of fans wouldn't even go for it. Even in this thread, you got Sniffers like ex, Sugus, and Obstructed saying he's doing an amazing job this season. Every single "star" player he's coached since Timmy has left has wanted out and e's still here not giving a fuck on the bench night in, night out. He's untouchable :lol

Maybe. But I think this could get ugly enough. I think if it ever came down to Pop or Wemby that the Spurs should choose Wemby. I don't think that was the case for the other players. It might not seem like Wemby would do that, but he's the closet thing the Spurs have had to Kawhi in terms of having an active team that will agitate for change on his behalf.

[NASpurs]

In before Pop puts in a real PG wth five games left in the season. We've seen him make the obvious decision people were clamoring before a season or a playoff series ended :lol

[Mugen]

Maybe. But I think this could get ugly enough. I think if it ever came down to Pop or Wemby that the Spurs should choose Wemby. I don't think that was the case for the other players. It might not seem like Wemby would do that, but he's the closet thing the Spurs have had to Kawhi in terms of having an active team that will agitate for change on his behalf.

The fact that that is even a question sums up everything wrong with this organization ever since Timmy left tbh. I legitimately think there are some people on this board that think they should choose the 74yo that hasn't sniffed success in several seasons :lol

[Arcadian]

TNT commentator: "The Spurs lack of a point guard is reeeaaallly showing right now."

You don't say.

[MultiTroll]

Maybe. But I think this could get ugly enough. I think if it ever came down to Pop or Wemby that the Spurs should choose Wemby.
Ya think? :lmao

My wonder is does Wemby have smart and supportive enough people around him to ditch Poppeds nonsense when this continues.
Whadaya think?

[GAustex]

The Emperor has no clothes

[JeffDuncan]

Ya think? :lmao

My wonder is does Wemby have smart and supportive enough people around him to ditch Poppeds nonsense when this continues.
Whadaya think?


Wemby’s mother is a basketball coach. Just an observation.

[Pauleta14]

lose/lose situation for Wemby if Pop leaves/stays

Either he'll be historically the player that retired/fired Pop or he has to deal with his suicidal strategy

[NASpurs]

https://youtu.be/UomjzWzopro?si=sGX_4M1pNlTNbBtO

[MultiTroll]

^^ When Grahmn and Chapagne were in i thought we looked like a team.

Oh btw,one or both of them had the only successful lobs to Wemby, both for easy slams.

Sure enough Popped takes them both out.
McDipshit was infuriating but as Pops Pet stays in.

Sochan looks lost per par. Vassell looks for his own shot and that's about it.

[Obstructed_View]

Forced out by who? F'n Wright? :lol

RC won't do it. Local media won't say shit. Hell, the majority of fans wouldn't even go for it. Even in this thread, you got Sniffers like ex, Sugus, and Obstructed saying he's doing an amazing job this season. Every single "star" player he's coached since Timmy has left has wanted out and e's still here not giving a fuck on the bench night in, night out. He's untouchable :lol

While I don't recall suggesting he was amazing this season, see my post in the fire pop thread.

[Obstructed_View]

It's hilarious that I would be called a sniffer. I have been calling out Pop for over fifteen years.

[Chinook]

The fact that that is even a question sums up everything wrong with this organization ever since Timmy left tbh. I legitimately think there are some people on this board that think they should choose the 74yo that hasn't sniffed success in several seasons :lol


Ya think? :lmao

My wonder is does Wemby have smart and supportive enough people around him to ditch Poppeds nonsense when this continues.
Whadaya think?

Sorry. When I said "should" I meant "would". Like this is the first player the Spurs would pick over Pop. They weren't going to sack him to please DeRozan, Aldridge or even Kawhi. I was answering Mu's question -- I think Pop could be forced out by Wemby if it doesn't work out between them. It doesn't matter if Wright or RC or the young Holts wouldn't do it on their own. If Wemby pushes hard enough, they would do it. I think Victor has both the means and the will, though I don't think it's something he/his team would do unless things got really dire. I do think the PR fear is real as well as the respect angle. But I also think he's the only one who has enough clout to push Pop off the plan he has for the season, and it's possible that Pop might decide to leave if he feels he's not the right coach anymore.

[tim_duncan_fan]

It's really not funny now.

The team hasn''t looked prepared and organized in 2, but really 5, years. I'm sorry but the teams have never seemed to have a plan of attack, nor does he seem to ever adjust things, especially the last few years.

Maybe fans are jumping ship/bitching too fast, but this is not a non-emergency situation.

The guys do not look like they know how to play. Being physically outmatched is something different from what we have been seeing. Ring the danged alarm bell.

Edit: Unless we are tanking intentionally. In that case, hey, I get it, and welcome it.

[Pauleta14]

Not sure Wemby has the will (at least yet) nor the personality to do so

Also too much to expect from a 19yo rookie. He already carries enough

[benefactor]

Not sure Wemby has the will (at least yet) nor the personality to do so

Also too much to expect from a 19yo rookie. He already carries enough
He will be fine he just needs better guidance

[tim_duncan_fan]

https://youtu.be/UomjzWzopro?si=sGX_4M1pNlTNbBtO

What are everyone's thoughts/reactions to this?

It should be noted that the reporter's tone kinda alluded to wanting answers.

[MultiTroll]

He will be fine he just needs better guidance
She means the will and personality (at this point in his 19 year old time) to push Pop off his bullshit strategies.
Whether that be getting him to change, bring in coaches who do have a clue, or push Pop out entirely as Mr.
"I'll retire when Duncan retires" should have done at least 5 years ago.

Say what one wants to about Phil Jackson, and I despised his swarmy aura.....he had the foresight to know that he himself was not an offensive coach so brought in Tex Winter to run the O Show.

[MultiTroll]

What are everyone's thoughts/reactions to this?

It should be noted that the reporter's tone kinda alluded to wanting answers.
The 'we just need to play harder, we played hard for 22 minutes but not the final 2'.....

Was a 100% deflection / cop out imo.

It's the b.s. strategies, not a lack of effort.

[timtonymanu]

Maybe the players have tuned him out. I know I would if I was being put in a position to fail every game. The game has passed the old man. They desperately need a new coach. Pop should move to the front office.

[spurraider21]

The fact that that is even a question sums up everything wrong with this organization ever since Timmy left tbh. I legitimately think there are some people on this board that think they should choose the 74yo that hasn't sniffed success in several seasons :lol
You’ll get the “wemby was just a taller Samanic” takes

[spurraider21]

The spurs have had talent deficiencies basically since Aldridge fell apart. But even last year, the team was never this bad. It’s completely disorganized. Nothing one player is doing seems to be related to what any other player is doing.

[Atl Spur]

No need for damage control, losing initially shouldn’t be to shocking :) We’ll hopefully pull it together soon!

[MultiTroll]

An 80% recap of final 3 minutes of half.

46-45 Spurs 3 minutes left:

48-45 Devin creates his own shot, jumper good!

48-47 Defensive screw up led to unguarded layup. Spurs in Zone, man to man? Who the hell knows.

49-48 OKC. Floppy haired phuck goes coast to coast on a defensive switch screw up unguarded for layup. Sochan was his man.

1st turnover Vassell got fouled by #5 no call. Knocked V on the arm with a reach in and got away with it. Certainly not a lack of effort by Vassell.

Wemby had a slacker failure to follow rebound after successful defense of OKC three pt shooter. Wemby broke upcourt, ball karoomed back all the way to near the arc where OKC had just shot. Shooter drove it in for the score as Wemby was upcourt.

+3 pts off of OKC out of bounds play. Looked like a b.s. push off that SGA got away with on Sochan. Sochan rung up for the after flop. Layup + tech foul. Again, not lack of effort. It was an error by Sochan to let SGA break to the hoop like that. Needed to be between SGA and the hoop. But the push off gave the final separation.

Nice pass by Wemby. Sochan just bobbled it. Turnover.

Horrible lob by Zollins for the turnover.

[Atl Spur]

What are everyone's thoughts/reactions to this?

It should be noted that the reporter's tone kinda alluded to wanting answers.

The old man said what he said! Lol. Pretty accurate.

[tim_duncan_fan]

An 80% recap of final 3 minutes of half.

46-45 Spurs 3 minutes left:

48-45 Devin creates his own shot, jumper good!

48-47 Defensive screw up led to unguarded layup. Spurs in Zone, man to man? Who the hell knows.

49-48 OKC. Floppy haired phuck goes coast to coast on a defensive switch screw up unguarded for layup. Sochan was his man.

1st turnover Vassell got fouled by #5 no call. Knocked V on the arm with a reach in and got away with it. Certainly not a lack of effort by Vassell.

Wemby had a slacker failure to follow rebound after successful defense of OKC three pt shooter. Wemby broke upcourt, ball karoomed back all the way to near the arc where OKC had just shot. Shooter drove it in for the score as Wemby was upcourt.

+3 pts off of OKC out of bounds play. Looked like a b.s. push off that SGA got away with on Sochan. Sochan rung up for the after flop. Layup + tech foul. Again, not lack of effort. It was an error by Sochan to let SGA break to the hoop like that. Needed to be between SGA and the hoop. But the push off gave the final separation.

Nice pass by Wemby. Sochan just bobbled it. Turnover.

Horrible lob by Zollins for the turnover.

You will not disrespect Timothee Chalamet this way.

[RC_Drunkford]

The spurs have had talent deficiencies basically since Aldridge fell apart. But even last year, the team was never this bad. It’s completely disorganized. Nothing one player is doing seems to be related to what any other player is doing.

that's what makes you wonder: What exactly is he teaching guys during training camp/practices? I don't think the players are that dumb, even though they look like it

[exstatic]

Mugen old man is so sewn into that city’s sports conscience there’s no one in that org that would show him the door. There’s no Jerry Jones in SA. Hell they don’t even have a lone figure running the show. You look up word entrenched and coach’s face is Figure 1A

The problem with your analogy is that Jerry Jones is the one who needs to be shown the door.

[DrSteffo]

I think that Pop is the perfect coach for tanking another year. We don't really play basketball and lack basketball IQ like we are disabled. We don´t have enough talent to compete and I'm already looking at next year's draft. A Holland, Collier, Edwards, Sarr or Buzelis and a big like Clingan or best available on this team could be what we need long term. We only have two future starters as I see it, Wemby and Vassell.

[Spurs Homer]

I think that Pop is the perfect coach for tanking another year. We don't really play basketball and lack basketball IQ like we are disabled. We don´t have enough talent to compete and I'm already looking at next year's draft. A Holland, Collier, Edwards, Sarr or Buzelis and a big like Clingan or best available on this team could be what we need long term. We only have two future starters as I see it, Wemby and Vassell.

Vassell sucks balls and will be injured before you and i could even argue about it...

Vassell cannot make an obvious lob pass - and is only out to get his - by putting up ridiculous shots which he sometimes makes - but is a shitty way to play and will only lead to losses

Keep VW - and get rid of everyone else

[DrSteffo]

You could be right but Vassell is the only player the other team might be worried about besides Wemby. If I was the coach of the opposing team I would just love it when our bigs try play like guards. One of them is forced to play PG which is ridiculous. Vassell should take even more midrange shots tbh. His role is perfect and he is one player who is at his natural position.

[SAGirl]

What are everyone's thoughts/reactions to this?

It should be noted that the reporter's tone kinda alluded to wanting answers.

Pop doesn’t really tell us anything other than lack of effort (“gutless worms” anyone?) which is a nothing-burger. If there’s lack of effort why is that? What is at the root of that?

If things are going south mid game what is going on? Is there anything that can be done to fix the root cause? How can you get back on track?

TBH things are going south because when the other team figures out that the Spurs are telegraphing passes, that their offense is predictable and that they don’t have a perimeter creator that scares them, then they can prevent lobs to Wemby, they can play passing lanes and do a bunch of schemes to stifle an anemic offense where players freelance and settle for tough shots or bailout passes.

The offense is a problem and if you can’t stop the TO and aren’t organized offensively, your bad offense turns into bad defense as well. You can’t stop transition scoring. Soon teams are going on a scoring spree fueled by your TO, and mistakes and yeah mentally it affects players. Frustration adds to boneheaded plays, bad shooting nights because players are frustrated. It just snowballs from there.

At some point there’s no effort because mentally they are beat. They can’t make a run of their own etc. The scoring gap is too great.

We only see the mental part and lack of effort after the gap is wide, but what’s causing that to get out of hand before then is the problem they need to figure out.

The team also needs to develop mental toughness and that’s where having a seasoned veteran also helps. Too many young guys can be volatile in terms of a bad game or bad mindset spreading.Ironically I thought Sochan was one of the guys who looked the most frustrated.

[itzsoweezee]

Still waiting on an explanation of the logic behind forcing Sochan to play point guard. No one has any explanation that makes sense

[Seventyniner]

Many things end badly because otherwise they wouldn't end. If Pop insists on going out on his own terms it could get ugly.

[Sugus]

I hated the Primo pick more than any Spurs pick since Bill Curley. The fact that there were so few useful players after him took some sting out of it, and there is no point in gloating because he had character issues. Like you said, I don't mind a reach, but I'm mystified at what the Spurs think they saw to get him. He was basically the last nail in the coffin of our hopes that the Spurs will ever draft a traditional point guard.

It's sad to think that we will literally never know.

The shitshow that were his "exposures" completely obliterated any chance of the Spurs ever mentioning Primo's name again. I'm shocked (but not really) that he's in the league again this fast, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Sean & Bill flat-out have a beeping on the mic whenever he's in the match next time we play the Clippers :lol

It gets even worse once you think of the current team, the glaring hole of a PG that puts pressure on the defense, is a shooter, and stuff.... We'll never know if Primo could've been that guy, but the Spurs certainly thought that of him, and I would've liked to see it through even if he wasn't my pick at the time. Shit sucks.

[Sugus]

Forced out by who? F'n Wright? :lol

RC won't do it. Local media won't say shit. Hell, the majority of fans wouldn't even go for it. Even in this thread, you got Sniffers like ex, Sugus, and Obstructed saying he's doing an amazing job this season. Every single "star" player he's coached since Timmy has left has wanted out and e's still here not giving a fuck on the bench night in, night out. He's untouchable :lol

You know you can tag me my guy? I'm not seeing your messages otherwise.

He's doing a great job this season..... Of tanking out the season. Setting the tone early. I've hardly seen Pop more focused on a goal, tbh :lol

[Sugus]

It's hilarious that I would be called a sniffer. I have been calling out Pop for over fifteen years.

There's few places where reality is as warped as ST tribalism. I joined this forum some years ago because most Spurs-focused forums were overly sweet on Pop and the Spurs, but I'm too lenient on him for ST's sake, apparently.

It's either he's a shit coach and always has been, or you're sniffin', so you better pick sides before playtime's over! :lol

[Sugus]

Still waiting on an explanation of the logic behind forcing Sochan to play point guard. No one has any explanation that makes sense

Really? I think people are really digging the Earth for answers when Pop & Co have been quite transparent in their approach.

They don't care to win this season. They see a future where Sochan handles the ball and want to put chips on it, and keep him on the court as much as possible.

It's perfectly arguable that it's not a good strategy or whatever, but acting like there's no explanation ¡?!¡?! is just willful ignorance at this point, he's repeatedly gotten asked about it. Personally, I'm pro-tank this season, so despite not loving the results, I perfectly agree with the place they're taking us to.

[JeffDuncan]

An 80% recap of final 3 minutes of half.
…
48-47 Defensive screw up led to unguarded layup. Spurs in Zone, man to man? Who the hell knows.



It was man to man, obviously. Vassell made two blunders on that one, the first being due to defensive incompetence, which then led to a mental error as well.

First, Vassell was in the wrong place. That’s the error of incompetence. He positioned himself too far from the baseline. He lost sight of his man, who was near the corner.

Second, when Osman’s man came across trailed by Osman, Vassell noticed that, and thought he would switch with Osman. Vassell stepped out toward Osman’s man, when Osman’s man came around. Mental error, false assumption.

Behind Vassell, there was nothing going on that would lead to a switch. No screen, no nothing. Osman could see that, so of course he did not switch. He just stayed with his man, rightly so.

It all left Vassell’s man unguarded, so he ran behind Vassell, with a clear lane to the basket.

Incompetence by Vassell leading to mental error by Vassell, and they score.

It all traces back to Vassell being in the wrong place at the beginning. That’s on the coaching. We’re ten games into the season, and the coaches STILL have not instructed the players on things as basic as where to stand to play competent defense? Damn.

The Spurs players are not as bad as they look, folks. But the coaching is.

[SAGirl]

The spurs have had talent deficiencies basically since Aldridge fell apart. But even last year, the team was never this bad. It’s completely disorganized. Nothing one player is doing seems to be related to what any other player is doing.
I didn’t watch them last year and I wonder about statements like this. Why do you think this is? Allowing too much freelancing, lack of an identity, sending Tre to the bench? I don’t know, give me some reasons here.

[RC_Drunkford]

I didn’t watch them last year and I wonder about statements like this. Why do you think this is? Allowing too much freelancing, lack of an identity, sending Tre to the bench? I don’t know, give me some reasons here.

the reason is because last year we were fine offensively. Tre Jones started, Sochan played PF and the team moved the ball and was able to score. The defense was the same as this year, non-existent. We also only played Vassell/Keldon/Sochan line ups for less than 300 min for the entire season to ensure the tank.

This year the offense is worse cause Pop just wants Wemby to do whatever he wants and doesn’t run sets and has decided to start Sochan at PG. So the offense is worse and while we added Wemby, the defense is on the same level with him, because Pop can’t teach these guys basic defensive principles that you learn in high school

[SAGirl]

the reason is because last year we were fine offensively. Tre Jones started, Sochan played PF and the team moved the ball and was able to score. The defense was the same as this year, non-existent. We also only played Vassell/Keldon/Sochan line ups for less than 300 min for the entire season to ensure the tank.

This year the offense is worse cause Pop just wants Wemby to do whatever he wants and doesn’t run sets and has decided to start Sochan at PG. So the offense is worse and while we added Wemby, the defense is on the same level with him, because Pop can’t teach these guys basic defensive principles that you learn in high school
Thanks for you answer. What you state makes sense to me but without watching them last season I just have no reference point, so that’s good to know. :toast

[Mugen]

You know you can tag me my guy? I'm not seeing your messages otherwise.

He's doing a great job this season..... Of tanking out the season. Setting the tone early. I've hardly seen Pop more focused on a goal, tbh :lol

Come here, Sug. :makeout

[RC_Drunkford]

the thing is this team doesn't play hard enough. No physicality and once they are down they give up. Has Pop lost the locker room? People have always said he's the best motivator, but the guys look like they tuned him out

[itzsoweezee]

Really? I think people are really digging the Earth for answers when Pop & Co have been quite transparent in their approach.

They don't care to win this season. They see a future where Sochan handles the ball and want to put chips on it, and keep him on the court as much as possible.

It's perfectly arguable that it's not a good strategy or whatever, but acting like there's no explanation ¡?!¡?! is just willful ignorance at this point, he's repeatedly gotten asked about it. Personally, I'm pro-tank this season, so despite not loving the results, I perfectly agree with the place they're taking us to.

See, there’s no logical connection between that explanation and the actions by popovich. There are plenty of ways to get Sochan to handle the ball without playing him as a starting point guard. There are also plenty of better ways to tank the team than to totally undermine your lottery pick from the immediately preceding year.

[Obstructed_View]

It's sad to think that we will literally never know.

The shitshow that were his "exposures" completely obliterated any chance of the Spurs ever mentioning Primo's name again. I'm shocked (but not really) that he's in the league again this fast, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Sean & Bill flat-out have a beeping on the mic whenever he's in the match next time we play the Clippers :lol

It gets even worse once you think of the current team, the glaring hole of a PG that puts pressure on the defense, is a shooter, and stuff.... We'll never know if Primo could've been that guy, but the Spurs certainly thought that of him, and I would've liked to see it through even if he wasn't my pick at the time. Shit sucks.
Strange because Sochan is a far better point guard than Primo or Wesley, but Spursfan has torches and pitchforks out for him.

[hater]

the old man thinks that yellow hair janitor is a basketball player and keeps starting him. smh

[Leetonidas]

The spurs have had talent deficiencies basically since Aldridge fell apart. But even last year, the team was never this bad. It’s completely disorganized. Nothing one player is doing seems to be related to what any other player is doing.

Disagree...plenty of games last year the Spurs did not look like an NBA team. Their roles were more defined but there were a number of games that were over in the first 6 minutes. The game in the Dome comes to mind. that shit was embarrassing. Plenty of other games like it too. Our team just sucks :lol

edit: just looked it over, my count may be wrong but i count at least 11 games where we were blown out by 30+ last season and I think 3 in which they lost by 40+. A number of those 30+ losses were close to 40, like 35 point loss vs pels, 36 point loss vs Bucks, 37 point loss against the dubs, 38 point loss against the suns, etc. we were also dead last in ppg, oppg, and point differential. one of those 30 point losses was against the fucking Rockets :lmao Not sure i agree the team last year was not this bad

[tim_duncan_fan]

Disagree...plenty of games last year the Spurs did not look like an NBA team. Their roles were more defined but there were a number of games that were over in the first 6 minutes. The game in the Dome comes to mind. that shit was embarrassing. Plenty of other games like it too. Our team just sucks :lol

edit: just looked it over, my count may be wrong but i count at least 11 games where we were blown out by 30+ last season and I think 3 in which they lost by 40+. A number of those 30+ losses were close to 40, like 35 point loss vs pels, 36 point loss vs Bucks, 37 point loss against the dubs, 38 point loss against the suns, etc. we were also dead last in ppg, oppg, and point differential. one of those 30 point losses was against the fucking Rockets :lmao Not sure i agree the team last year was not this bad

The team has been flat-out stupid since at least Demar. Also bad at shooting, and also horrid at defense, but really just purely dumb.

[Obstructed_View]

Defense was shockingly improved tonight. Defenders facing the ball, keeping ball handlers out of spots. They still cheat down from the corners and give up threes, which is bad. The Kings were really struggling until Spurs defense fell asleep and they saw the ball go through the net.

[Obstructed_View]

https://youtu.be/YmxATJEjlqg

[ElNono]

Ruth Bader Popovich... much like the old man running the country now, you need to know when to call it quits... It's like those old boxers that don't know their time was up and go out there get embarrassed night in and night out.

You're filthy rich, you have children, grandchildren... go enjoy the last few years of your life with your family, tbh.

The Spurs might transition to a coach that's better or worse, but one thing is for certain: it'll be a coach that cares about winning and losing, because his ass will be on the line.

[The Truth #6]

Team looked prepared and motivated last night, which I was told is directly related to coaching. Therefore excellent coaching job by the Old Man, right???

[MultiTroll]

Team looked prepared and motivated last night, which I was told is directly related to coaching. Therefore excellent coaching job by the Old Man, right???
Multimillionaire players being "prepared and motivated" to do their job for one game is not some "excellent" coaching job by their 100 million + Grandpa.
The bars been set so low that when they have a basic effort game you Sniffers are elevating it to some "excellent" status.

They played above average, even well at times to go with their shit show sets, forced shots what-the-hell-is-the-offense per usual. Ditto D.

Vast improvement over the previous game with team and Popped.

[The Truth #6]

Multimillionaire players being "prepared and motivated" to do their job for one game is not some "excellent" coaching job by their 100 million + Grandpa.
The bars been set so low that when they have a basic effort game you Sniffers are elevating it to some "excellent" status.

They played above average, even well at times to go with their shit show sets, forced shots what-the-hell-is-the-offense per usual. Ditto D.

Vast improvement over the previous game with team and Popped.

Got it. So when they play like crap, then it's because they're spoiled athletes then???

[MultiTroll]

Got it. So when they play like crap, then it's because they're spoiled athletes then???
Not always.
Wemby forced some bad shot attempts last night. Thats on him as he was not being frozen out of the offense as he had been.
Sochan continues to be a very bad ball handler. That is on Popped 100 in that he has Sochan be the primary ball handler. :downspin:

Collins had a fabulous game. Total burn call in 4th when he picked up the charge on Sabonis but KingsRef called a blocking foul. Big momentum play imo.

[Dverde]

Defense was shockingly improved tonight. Defenders facing the ball, keeping ball handlers out of spots. They still cheat down from the corners and give up threes, which is bad. The Kings were really struggling until Spurs defense fell asleep and they saw the ball go through the net.

Maybe Pop threatened to cancel their Oprah book of the month subscription

[Mugen]

Sniff Crew - I want y'all to remember the date: Saturday November 18th Memphis @ San Antonio

This is the day, this young Spurs team officially quit on the old man. They absolutely tuned him out even with a 20pt lead at home and for the first time I think forever, his face showed it. Just a broken down old man realizing the game has passed him by and he's no longer the man for a bunch of young dudes.

Now, nobody has the clout yet to push him out (Victor will by next season). So the national media narrative is going to be a really key conversation driver. But I think there's a real chance we can finally Jerry Sloan this motherfucker once and for all and maybe, just maybe, save this franchise from the dark cloud that has been looming over since Timmy left.

prayingdog.jpg.

[jeebus]

Heard a rumor that in one of the time outs, instead of trying to coach the team and draw up a play, Poop told the guys about how they need to support The Marvels movie more, because they're the reason why it's tanking at the box office.

[Mugen]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOmXQvhuH4BVSe9q6t_NYQ7uOxbG95p G8BHA&usqp=CAU

[RC_Drunkford]

Sniff Crew - I want y'all to remember the date: Saturday November 18th Memphis @ San Antonio

This is the day, this young Spurs team officially quit on the old man. They absolutely tuned him out even with a 20pt lead at home and for the first time I think forever, his face showed it. Just a broken down old man realizing the game has passed him by and he's no longer the man for a bunch of young dudes.

Now, nobody has the clout yet to push him out (Victor will by next season). So the national media narrative is going to be a really key conversation driver. But I think there's a real chance we can finally Jerry Sloan this motherfucker once and for all and maybe, just maybe, save this franchise from the dark cloud that has been looming over since Timmy left.

prayingdog.jpg.

I been saying it. They don't take grandpa serious

[Mugen]

:cry But his wife died 5 years ago, he should have carte blanche to torpedo this franchise's future

:cry 5 rings

[baseline bum]

I love Pop but any other coach in the league would be at best an inch from being fired doing this piss poor of a job

[Number 2]

On a greatness scale of Brynn Forbes to Tim Duncan, how would you rate Popovich as a coach?

[Mugen]

I love Pop but any other coach in the league would be at best an inch from being fired doing this piss poor of a job

Nobody is immune forever. Once the national media starts getting wind of how much of a shitshow this is, the conversations will grow louder and louder. They want Wemby to a bigger market and shining a light on how terrible the old man has been is a step in that direction. I'd say b2b blowouts against the Clippers and that FirePop train starts getting some steam.


I hope the old fuck steps away by the all star break tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

On a greatness scale of Brynn Forbes to Tim Duncan, how would you rate Popovich as a coach?

I know 29 coaches in the NBA right now that are better than him. And there are probably a couple 100s more out there

[objective]

Sniff Crew - I want y'all to remember the date: Saturday November 18th Memphis @ San Antonio

This is the day, this young Spurs team officially quit on the old man. They absolutely tuned him out even with a 20pt lead at home and for the first time I think forever, his face showed it. Just a broken down old man realizing the game has passed him by and he's no longer the man for a bunch of young dudes.

Now, nobody has the clout yet to push him out (Victor will by next season). So the national media narrative is going to be a really key conversation driver. But I think there's a real chance we can finally Jerry Sloan this motherfucker once and for all and maybe, just maybe, save this franchise from the dark cloud that has been looming over since Timmy left.

prayingdog.jpg.

Duncd On podcast has been soft pedaling "Maybe Pop has lost his fastball" for a few months now, only several years after most ST posters.

Once it gets more vocal there it will filter down to most other podcasters and media people who count on Duncd On as one of the key influencers in media groupthink

But it's worth noting that Sloan quit because he was tired of Deron Williams, not losing games or health issues. I don't know if the Spurs have an agitator like Utah did, and Pop is more likely to hug an agitator than quit in disgust like Sloan.

[z0sa]

Duncd On podcast has been soft pedaling "Maybe Pop has lost his fastball" for a few months now, only several years after most ST posters.

Once it gets more vocal there it will filter down to most other podcasters and media people who count on Duncd On as one of the key influencers in media groupthink

But it's worth noting that Sloan quit because he was tired of Deron Williams, not losing games or health issues. I don't know if the Spurs have an agitator like Utah did, and Pop is more likely to hug an agitator than quit in disgust like Sloan.

Pop thrived as an asshole who screamed at his 19 year old rookies and demanded impossible perfection. This ain't the Pop of olde, that much is certain. I think he's possibly worried about his own health at 75 years old, thinking his brains alone can get the job done. Not with a young crowd. You gotta have energy and raw emotion to appeal to these guys. He's a HOFer with 5 rings and either #1 or #2 on the GOAT list of NBA coaches at this point (from a casual fan/ESPN perspective). I don't want him to work himself to death and have a heart attack on national TV or something, but clearly the cmon guys please play better approach ain't working.

[Mugen]

Duncd On podcast has been soft pedaling "Maybe Pop has lost his fastball" for a few months now, only several years after most ST posters.

Once it gets more vocal there it will filter down to most other podcasters and media people who count on Duncd On as one of the key influencers in media groupthink

But it's worth noting that Sloan quit because he was tired of Deron Williams, not losing games or health issues. I don't know if the Spurs have an agitator like Utah did, and Pop is more likely to hug an agitator than quit in disgust like Sloan.

If Wemby wants Pop out, he's out. Plain and simple. Wemby is very deliberate and thoughtful about his career progression and he has a whole entourage/country in his ear tbh. 20 more games of this trash and those whispers about the old man being trash aren't whispers anymore.

Outside of sniffers and idiots, every single Spur fan would choose Wemby over grandpa so the narrative wouldn't even be that bad.

If Wemby manages to force the old man out, I'd argue that'd be one of the top accomplishments that any Spur has ever done outside of Timmy tbh.

[tbdog]

I honestly think the team composition is the issue. Starting Sochan is a player development decision, something that Pop won't benefit in the short term. Playing Wemby at the 4 is again a long term decision, and again not about Pop benefiting in the short term. I don't even think Collins is a starting center in this league and is more of a Combo big and mainly a 4. Starting Champanie isn't getting you wins. I know Wemby is going to be a machine, but Rookies are notoriously not a net positive for their team. We all got our hopes up in those Suns games and saw Wemby just take over.

I honestly thought the Spurs tanked last year by doing selective resting/injuries, playing a very up tempo game of basketball, while playing young players.

I thought this year would be different. But it was my naivety on display. We used our cap space obtaining contracts with picks attached. Waived rotational players. Signed undrafted players for longer contracts.

We were always playing the lottery game again. It was obvious and we didn't see it?

[MultiTroll]

Team looked prepared and motivated last night, which I was told is directly related to coaching. Therefore excellent coaching job by the Old Man, right???
Are you going to weigh in on tonight's Grizzley game?
:lol

[GAustex]

But I can see the king has no clothes
Why can’t everyone else ?

[The Truth #6]

Are you going to weigh in on tonight's Grizzley game?
:lol

Excellent question. I'm checking my notes I took while reading this thread. Let's see. When we win, credit the players. When we lose, blame the coach. Ok, so yes, fire the coach! Get the Old Man outta here!

[vander]

Excellent question. I'm checking my notes I took while reading this thread. Let's see. When we win, credit the players. When we lose, blame the coach. Ok, so yes, fire the coach! Get the Old Man outta here!

When we win? lol
2 wins against a Suns team that is 3 stars and a bunch of scrubs, and they were missing 2 stars. also barely beat the Rockets in OT
this team lucky not to be 0-13

[some_user86]

I'm not convinced another coach could do better with this squad. This is a talent issue, not a coaching issue. Outside of Wemby and Vassel, we just flat out suck. We need better players and until that happens, we're gonna be eating shit for a while. Literally the only difference between this year and last year is Wemby. Y'all have unreasonable expectations for what is possible, even if it is a generational talent.

[Chinook]

It's hard to know if the Spurs' talent is that bad, because they aren't being put in positions to succeed right now. Again this "see what we have" season only works if the Spurs' coaches actually try to win games. You need a culture that rewards competition and improvement rather than just assuming improvement will come if you force-feed minutes.

... I can ream off another anti-Pop rant. I don't feel like doing that right now. In reality, the Spurs haven't turned Pop out as much as some folks are saying. They are passing the ball very well. Folks are constantly pissed that the new guy isn't getting the ball as much as they'd like, but 1) he gets the ball plenty and 2) the Spurs are sharing the ball as much as ever. That type of unselfish culture is a credit to the job the front office and staff have done. They need to figure out the PG rotation, and they could use a smart acquisition of a perimeter penetrator. Their offense is fixable.

Defense is obviously a huge concern, and I do think the Spurs will likely need a new coach and at least a couple of new players to fix that. However, Pop can improve the effort level and cut down on the mental errors if he has a quick hook for bad defense. He doesn't have to yell and scream at a guy. Just pull him aside and let a bench player go in there. That will send both the message that bad defense will get you benched and that good defense will get you playing time. If Pop is teaching good defense and is being ignored, having the hook will definitely change the behavior. If Pop is teaching bad defense, there's no hope for him. The biggest issue will be making sure he doesn't play favors. Pull anyone that makes the mistakes. Do line subs. Don't except your anointed players. You aren't killing them by benching them. They'll be able to come back in a few minutes. If they don't like it, they will have an incentive to not let it happen again. This is when having vets on the roster who can come in and play the right way -- even if they're not good enough to actually make a difference -- is important. It's why you can't just roll with a bunch of 19-year-olds. That was always fucking stupid. There's a way to be bad while making progress, and I don't think the Spurs are at that point right now.

[tbdog]

^ losing culture is not good. We tanked last year and pop didn't call out the historically bad defence. Now the Spurs don't know how to hold onto wins because imo, losing culture.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm not convinced another coach could do better with this squad. This is a talent issue, not a coaching issue. Outside of Wemby and Vassel, we just flat out suck. We need better players and until that happens, we're gonna be eating shit for a while. Literally the only difference between this year and last year is Wemby. Y'all have unreasonable expectations for what is possible, even if it is a generational talent.

So Pop should get no blame for drafting the players we did?

[exstatic]

So Pop should get no blame for drafting the players we did?

Pop doesn’t do the drafting. That’s BW, and to some extent, RC.

[some_user86]

It's hard to know if the Spurs' talent is that bad, because they aren't being put in positions to succeed right now. Again this "see what we have" season only works if the Spurs' coaches actually try to win games. You need a culture that rewards competition and improvement rather than just assuming improvement will come if you force-feed minutes.

... I can ream off another anti-Pop rant. I don't feel like doing that right now. In reality, the Spurs haven't turned Pop out as much as some folks are saying. They are passing the ball very well. Folks are constantly pissed that the new guy isn't getting the ball as much as they'd like, but 1) he gets the ball plenty and 2) the Spurs are sharing the ball as much as ever. That type of unselfish culture is a credit to the job the front office and staff have done. They need to figure out the PG rotation, and they could use a smart acquisition of a perimeter penetrator. Their offense is fixable.

Defense is obviously a huge concern, and I do think the Spurs will likely need a new coach and at least a couple of new players to fix that. However, Pop can improve the effort level and cut down on the mental errors if he has a quick hook for bad defense. He doesn't have to yell and scream at a guy. Just pull him aside and let a bench player go in there. That will send both the message that bad defense will get you benched and that good defense will get you playing time. If Pop is teaching good defense and is being ignored, having the hook will definitely change the behavior. If Pop is teaching bad defense, there's no hope for him. The biggest issue will be making sure he doesn't play favors. Pull anyone that makes the mistakes. Do line subs. Don't except your anointed players. You aren't killing them by benching them. They'll be able to come back in a few minutes. If they don't like it, they will have an incentive to not let it happen again. This is when having vets on the roster who can come in and play the right way -- even if they're not good enough to actually make a difference -- is important. It's why you can't just roll with a bunch of 19-year-olds. That was always fucking stupid. There's a way to be bad while making progress, and I don't think the Spurs are at that point right now.

You literally just said that having vets on the team would change the dynamics and improve our approach/defense. That by definition is a talent issue. A coach can't pull players who are making defensive mistakes if the guy he replaces them with makes the same damn mistakes. The team is too young from top to bottom. This roster was constructed to lose, and we should have recognized that from day one. We were set up for a tank job from day one. Why else have the youngest roster in the league and not even attempt to have vets??

[Chomag]

Even this sniffers have to come to the realization that any other coach in the league would have been fired right now

[Chinook]

You literally just said that having vets on the team would change the dynamics and improve our approach/defense. That by definition is a talent issue.

First off, no is not by definition of a talent issue. Talent and experience are different things.


That by definition is a talent issue. A coach can't pull players who are making defensive mistakes if the guy he replaces them with makes the same damn mistakes.

Pop is responsible for the lack of vets. Even if you're one of the folks who buys that Pop doesn't have a hand in bringing in the players, he does have control over which of the players brought in stay with the team. Pop cut a lot of the vets the team had. That's a coaching issue.


The team is too young from top to bottom.

We agree there. It's destructively young. That so much of the roster is under 21 is ridiculous.


We were set up for a tank job from day one. Why else have the youngest roster in the league and not even attempt to have vets??

If you say the Spurs are okay losing games and want another high pick, that's one thing. But the fact that no one on the team knows how to play defense is extremely concerning. It's pretty obvious they aren't doing things a good coach should instill in guys. When you have guys who have been on rosters for three years and they can't make a rotation, that's a coaching issue. We can go over ever little thing that's a coaching issue, that's not actually hard to get even younger players to do but that have been problems with the team for five or six years. I don't have the energy of have these arguments fresh. But no, Pop doesn't get to hide behind his roster. He's not coaching well but is being failed by his talent. The guys are playing below where you'd expect people their age to be. Indeed, the team will need to bring in other players to become a contender. We know that. But the guys on the court could be executing basic basketball on both ends, and they don't, especially on defense. That's at Pop's feet, not anyone else's. Even if the plan is to lose this year, his bad coaching is scarring the team.

[Chomag]

Actually any professional sports coach for that matter

[The Truth #6]

When we win? lol
2 wins against a Suns team that is 3 stars and a bunch of scrubs, and they were missing 2 stars. also barely beat the Rockets in OT
this team lucky not to be 0-13

Right. Fire Pop!!!!!

[exstatic]

When we win? lol
2 wins against a Suns team that is 3 stars and a bunch of scrubs, and they were missing 2 stars. also barely beat the Rockets in OT
this team lucky not to be 0-13

They had the full complement for the second game, and we won by a bigger margin.

[GAustex]

^Suns did not have Beal

[Tyronn Lue]

You literally just said that having vets on the team would change the dynamics and improve our approach/defense. That by definition is a talent issue. A coach can't pull players who are making defensive mistakes if the guy he replaces them with makes the same damn mistakes. The team is too young from top to bottom. This roster was constructed to lose, and we should have recognized that from day one. We were set up for a tank job from day one. Why else have the youngest roster in the league and not even attempt to have vets??
It's not a talent issue, it's an experience issue. 1st year Lebron had great talent, but lacked composure and experience. 1st ring Lebron had composure and experience. The Spurs need the composure and experience, pace, spacing, spatial awareness and situational awareness someone like a late career JKidd would bring. They don't need a lot of talent as much as they need a lot of experience.

[MultiTroll]

It's not a talent issue, it's an experience issue. 1st year Lebron had great talent, but lacked composure and experience. 1st ring Lebron had composure and experience.
:lmao Which team had more talent, 1st year Lebron Cavs or 1st ring Lebron Heat?

[MultiTroll]

The Pollyanna Poppers will be meeting after Monday nights game vs the Clippers at:

Crumpets Restaurant and Bakery - San Antonio, TX | OpenTable (https://www.opentable.com/crumpets-restaurant-and-bakery)

[exstatic]

It's not a talent issue, it's an experience issue. 1st year Lebron had great talent, but lacked composure and experience. 1st ring Lebron had composure and experience. The Spurs need the composure and experience, pace, spacing, spatial awareness and situational awareness someone like a late career JKidd would bring. They don't need a lot of talent as much as they need a lot of experience.

..and Wade and Bosh. It’s a talent issue.

[RC_Drunkford]

It's not a talent issue, it's an experience issue. 1st year Lebron had great talent, but lacked composure and experience. 1st ring Lebron had composure and experience. The Spurs need the composure and experience, pace, spacing, spatial awareness and situational awareness someone like a late career JKidd would bring. They don't need a lot of talent as much as they need a lot of experience.

He also had Spoelstra

[objective]

Rockets are playing largely the same roster that looked like it had worse talent than SA plus an above average point guard and a 2 guard playing above his head and they're looking like a playoff team.

They haven't even had their lottery pick most of the year.

But that's what coaching can do. If Ime was the Spurs coach the team would be better and more disciplined.

Their defense is hung on Sengun's back and it sure looks better than any Zach Collins based defense.

[Tyronn Lue]

:lmao Which team had more talent, 1st year Lebron Cavs or 1st ring Lebron Heat?
The comment was about Lebron himself, not the team around him, to show the difference between talent and experience. I guess you missed it.

[Tyronn Lue]

..and Wade and Bosh. It’s a talent issue.


He also had Spoelstra
You both are talking about the ring. I am talking about the player.

[some_user86]

It's not a talent issue, it's an experience issue. 1st year Lebron had great talent, but lacked composure and experience. 1st ring Lebron had composure and experience. The Spurs need the composure and experience, pace, spacing, spatial awareness and situational awareness someone like a late career JKidd would bring. They don't need a lot of talent as much as they need a lot of experience.

It is also an experience issue, I agree. The point being, it's a roster composition issue. And if we rolled in with this roster, the outcome was predictable. The front office knew that going in, which means they made the bet that Wemby alone isn't enough to win championships and we need more talent. Experience will get you to the play-in and possibly the playoffs. Talent will win you championships. There was a lot of hopium being puffed that the players were magically going to be better than what they are. I think the people who are angry with Pop are really just coming down from their hopium high. It's gonna get worse before it gets better. For both the team and for our hopium addicts.

[Obstructed_View]

Rockets are playing largely the same roster that looked like it had worse talent than SA plus an above average point guard and a 2 guard playing above his head and they're looking like a playoff team.

They haven't even had their lottery pick most of the year.

But that's what coaching can do. If Ime was the Spurs coach the team would be better and more disciplined.

Their defense is hung on Sengun's back and it sure looks better than any Zach Collins based defense.
To expand on your point, the additions the Rockettes made to the roster didn't look like they were going to be impactful. Ime seems to have everyone rowing in the same direction in relatively short order.

I'm always happy to call out Popovich, but there is a case to be made that without any assistants who know how to do what Ime did, it's not a surprise that the Spurs are a dumpster fire.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

^ losing culture is not good. We tanked last year and pop didn't call out the historically bad defence. Now the Spurs don't know how to hold onto wins because imo, losing culture.

I think there’s a lot of truth in this statement. The team embraced the tank last year. Winning is hard when you’ve already accepted failure.

[playbonner15]

Rockets are playing largely the same roster that looked like it had worse talent than SA plus an above average point guard and a 2 guard playing above his head and they're looking like a playoff team.

They haven't even had their lottery pick most of the year.

But that's what coaching can do. If Ime was the Spurs coach the team would be better and more disciplined.

Their defense is hung on Sengun's back and it sure looks better than any Zach Collins based defense.

Imagine if Spurs won the coin toss and Rockets getting 1st pick... damn, they might be favorites in the West. Spurs on the other hand is last in standings :lol

[objective]

To expand on your point, the additions the Rockettes made to the roster didn't look like they were going to be impactful. Ime seems to have everyone rowing in the same direction in relatively short order.

I'm always happy to call out Popovich, but there is a case to be made that without any assistants who know how to do what Ime did, it's not a surprise that the Spurs are a dumpster fire.

They haven't been able to keep or acquire good assistants and that's on Pop.

First Messina and Ime left at the same time and didn't even leave to be NBA head coaches. Messina back to Europe and Ime left to be an assistant. Then Hardy left ... To be an assistant.

I used to think assistants were leaving for better opportunities or not joining due to worries of future security.

But now I think it just as likely that the word is out that "you don't want to be with Pop". Maybe that's a personality thing, maybe it's a "no more spark in the eyes" thing where no one wants that stress of an elderly person in that condition.

It was really weird how they couldn't get anyone to be assistant so badly they had to emergency elevate their gleague coach and beg Duncan to mind Pop and he noped out as soon as the season was over.

It was really weird how Pop refused to name a lead assistant and just decided that in cases of ejection that whoever scouted the opponent would be coach.

It was really weird how he hired and repeatedly re-hired Hammon to the point where she has by far the most tenure but wasn't allowed to coach in his absence and he snapped on reporters for asking about making history and responding that it wasn't his job to make history. Hey Pop, if you don't want to have a woman fill in for you as coach, don't repeatedly hire a woman assistant coach!

Now Brett Brown is there, but he might be a guy who can't get hired anywhere anyway.

If Pop can't get good assistants to join him that's his fault.

This would seem like a good gig, elderly coach, superstar prospect, a GM who isn't commanding with an iron fist and could probably be handled by the right coach ... Something might be up

[ElNono]

They haven't been able to keep or acquire good assistants and that's on Pop.

First Messina and Ime left at the same time and didn't even leave to be NBA head coaches. Messina back to Europe and Ime left to be an assistant. Then Hardy left ... To be an assistant.

I used to think assistants were leaving for better opportunities or not joining due to worries of future security.

But now I think it just as likely that the word is out that "you don't want to be with Pop". Maybe that's a personality thing, maybe it's a "no more spark in the eyes" thing where no one wants that stress of an elderly person in that condition.

It was really weird how they couldn't get anyone to be assistant so badly they had to emergency elevate their gleague coach and beg Duncan to mind Pop and he noped out as soon as the season was over.

It was really weird how Pop refused to name a lead assistant and just decided that in cases of ejection that whoever scouted the opponent would be coach.

It was really weird how he hired and repeatedly re-hired Hammon to the point where she has by far the most tenure but wasn't allowed to coach in his absence and he snapped on reporters for asking about making history and responding that it wasn't his job to make history. Hey Pop, if you don't want to have a woman fill in for you as coach, don't repeatedly hire a woman assistant coach!

Now Brett Brown is there, but he might be a guy who can't get hired anywhere anyway.

If Pop can't get good assistants to join him that's his fault.

This would seem like a good gig, elderly coach, superstar prospect, a GM who isn't commanding with an iron fist and could probably be handled by the right coach ... Something might be up

I think the most rational explanation for a lot of that is that there's no visible future for them on the Spurs. Basically, there's no opportunities for them to move up the ladder as long as Pop is around.

So the deal is more like you get some experience points here, and then better head somewhere else if you actually want to be a head coach.

[objective]

I think the most rational explanation for a lot of that is that there's no visible future for them on the Spurs. Basically, there's no opportunities for them to move up the ladder as long as Pop is around.

So the deal is more like you get some experience points here, and then better head somewhere else if you actually want to be a head coach.

I guess I don't see how every other team situation is better than SA. Maybe the true contenders for being a lead assistant ... But that's only a few teams.

Why would someone be the assistant for Will Hardy when Utah is years away talent wise while Ainge builds the team and Hardy is super young?

Why be the assistant for Spoelstra when he has just as much of a defacto lifetime contract as Pop but is 20+ years younger?

Most coaching situations are going to be under head coaches who aren't on the hot seat and are young men. No one hires elderly coaches anymore.

And in situations where a coach might get blown out, half the time every assistant gets blown out by summer also

Hollinger has talked about how he doesn't think any coaches get fired this year. He might be wrong, but getting a head coach gig via in-season firing might be an even less likely way to get a head job than hoping for a retirement

[MultiTroll]

The other night Popped told Victor to gather the ball and come down on some lobs where he may be too off balance to convert the straight oop.
While thats sound info, are they really just NOW discovering that.

1st thing i thought of when i heard 7'4" dude was all the buzz along with legit injury worries.

The blip sounded like this was the 1st time Popped had ever broached the subect with Wemby. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

I guess I don't see how every other team situation is better than SA. Maybe the true contenders for being a lead assistant ... But that's only a few teams.

Why would someone be the assistant for Will Hardy when Utah is years away talent wise while Ainge builds the team and Hardy is super young?

Why be the assistant for Spoelstra when he has just as much of a defacto lifetime contract as Pop but is 20+ years younger?

Most coaching situations are going to be under head coaches who aren't on the hot seat and are young men. No one hires elderly coaches anymore.

And in situations where a coach might get blown out, half the time every assistant gets blown out by summer also

Hollinger has talked about how he doesn't think any coaches get fired this year. He might be wrong, but getting a head coach gig via in-season firing might be an even less likely way to get a head job than hoping for a retirement

Doesn't have to be that EVERY other team has better opportunities. Just that the Spurs are one where you have no future or could become a stain on your resume. Think any team is scouting Spurs assistants right now?

[Tyronn Lue]

It is also an experience issue, I agree. The point being, it's a roster composition issue. And if we rolled in with this roster, the outcome was predictable. The front office knew that going in, which means they made the bet that Wemby alone isn't enough to win championships and we need more talent. Experience will get you to the play-in and possibly the playoffs. Talent will win you championships. There was a lot of hopium being puffed that the players were magically going to be better than what they are. I think the people who are angry with Pop are really just coming down from their hopium high. It's gonna get worse before it gets better. For both the team and for our hopium addicts.

They can't be thinking championships. They have to develop Victor, and that's not going to happen with a bunch of players who also need to be developed but that don't have the upside to justify it.

[objective]

Doesn't have to be that EVERY other team has better opportunities. Just that the Spurs are one where you have no future or could become a stain on your resume. Think any team is scouting Spurs assistants right now?

I think the Spurs absolutely get scouted, including coaching and assistants. Especially this season. People will always recognize innovation, discipline, and execution. Hell you can see it all the time when even coaches of bad teams stand out like OKC coach even when they were bad. You could see guys as head coaches in the g-league stand out. Austin had a good up and comer who was snatched to be an assistant for Memphis.

But it's still hard for them to get or keep assistants possibly more than any team in the league without a good excuse. Last year Boston had a terrible assistant program but there was an excuse. Hardy had left, Ime was out right when camp was underway and another assistant quit when passed over for Mezzula. They were able to hire new assistants this off season.

There should be great opportunities with the Spurs. Either the hope for a head gig, or to be Wemby's guy. Assistants who work with Superstars when they're young often get job opps and security for years if they can get a rep as having developed that guy. Gianni's had a guy who was rehired at one point because of working with when younger. People would love to have the story of the assistant who is the key to the Spurs success, and it would be believable. "Pop is the wise teacher, but everyone knows that so-and-so 8s doing the day to day and running the show!"

It's just weird

[exstatic]

I guess I don't see how every other team situation is better than SA. Maybe the true contenders for being a lead assistant ... But that's only a few teams.

Why would someone be the assistant for Will Hardy when Utah is years away talent wise while Ainge builds the team and Hardy is super young?

Why be the assistant for Spoelstra when he has just as much of a defacto lifetime contract as Pop but is 20+ years younger?

Most coaching situations are going to be under head coaches who aren't on the hot seat and are young men. No one hires elderly coaches anymore.

And in situations where a coach might get blown out, half the time every assistant gets blown out by summer also

Hollinger has talked about how he doesn't think any coaches get fired this year. He might be wrong, but getting a head coach gig via in-season firing might be an even less likely way to get a head job than hoping for a retirement

Strong disagree. They showed a graphic on the game telecast a week or two ago of the five coaches with the most longevity with their current teams, and number 5 was Taylor Jenkins of Memphis with 5 years there. There are 25 coaches with less than 5 years at their franchise, meaning there are pretty much always opportunities to be had.

[Obstructed_View]

I think the Spurs absolutely get scouted, including coaching and assistants. Especially this season. People will always recognize innovation, discipline, and execution. Hell you can see it all the time when even coaches of bad teams stand out like OKC coach even when they were bad. You could see guys as head coaches in the g-league stand out. Austin had a good up and comer who was snatched to be an assistant for Memphis.

But it's still hard for them to get or keep assistants possibly more than any team in the league without a good excuse. Last year Boston had a terrible assistant program but there was an excuse. Hardy had left, Ime was out right when camp was underway and another assistant quit when passed over for Mezzula. They were able to hire new assistants this off season.

There should be great opportunities with the Spurs. Either the hope for a head gig, or to be Wemby's guy. Assistants who work with Superstars when they're young often get job opps and security for years if they can get a rep as having developed that guy. Gianni's had a guy who was rehired at one point because of working with when younger. People would love to have the story of the assistant who is the key to the Spurs success, and it would be believable. "Pop is the wise teacher, but everyone knows that so-and-so 8s doing the day to day and running the show!"

It's just weird
Which of those are the Spurs demonstrating thus far?

[spurs1990]

Spurs differential is even worse than last year's double digit number. Pistons Wiz and Blazers are horrific but San Antonio is three surprising wins over playoff teams from winless. Any other coach not named popovich not get let go with these results... Destroyed every game?

Where's a Popovich to fire Bob Hill when you need him.

https://i.ibb.co/s9KRR4b/IMG-3334.jpg

[Pauleta14]

Pop just said he's perfectly satisfied with tonight's game :lol

[slick'81]

Pop just said he's perfectly satisfied with tonight's game :lol

and "nobody likes to lose"

[baseline bum]

Pop just said he's perfectly satisfied with tonight's game :lol

Just when I thought I couldn't feel any worse about this team :lol

God is Victor going to even give us the seven years LeBron gave Cleveland before walking due to the incompetence of the organization?

[Mugen]

We've been eating good these last 9 games tbh :lol

[timtonymanu]

Victor should leave now honestly. What a loser and finished head coach, tbh. Tim Duncan really held his hand all those years.

[BatManu20]

Pop just said he's perfectly satisfied with tonight's game :lol

Christ. The old man’s lost it. The old Pop would’ve been tearing these young guys new assholes after some of these defensive performances tbh.

[weeks]

I think Pop might be afraid to coach too harshly after Kawhi, LMA, DDR all were unhappy here

[ElNono]

I guess I don't see how every other team situation is better than SA. Maybe the true contenders for being a lead assistant ... But that's only a few teams.

Why would someone be the assistant for Will Hardy when Utah is years away talent wise while Ainge builds the team and Hardy is super young?

Why be the assistant for Spoelstra when he has just as much of a defacto lifetime contract as Pop but is 20+ years younger?

Most coaching situations are going to be under head coaches who aren't on the hot seat and are young men. No one hires elderly coaches anymore.

And in situations where a coach might get blown out, half the time every assistant gets blown out by summer also

Hollinger has talked about how he doesn't think any coaches get fired this year. He might be wrong, but getting a head coach gig via in-season firing might be an even less likely way to get a head job than hoping for a retirement

Spoelstra is a good case that illustrates what I'm saying. He was an assistant coach in Miami, and eventually moved up to the head coaching position after Pat Riley stepped down.

I look at somebody like Ime, he left here to be an asst coach in Brooklyn and the Sixers. Eventually, an East coast team (Boston) hired him as a head coach.

Even the odd chance to be an interim coach until season's end is simply more likely to happen somewhere else.

I do agree with you that becoming a head coach is difficult. There's a limited number of open seats at any given time, and teams are not firing coaches like they used to a number of years back.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs differential is even worse than last year's double digit number. Pistons Wiz and Blazers are horrific but San Antonio is three surprising wins over playoff teams from winless. Any other coach not named popovich not get let go with these results... Destroyed every game?

Where's a Popovich to fire Bob Hill when you need him.

https://i.ibb.co/s9KRR4b/IMG-3334.jpg

Apparently Pop is playing 4D chess according to a lot of posters here :lmao

[exstatic]

Spoelstra is a good case that illustrates what I'm saying. He was an assistant coach in Miami, and eventually moved up to the head coaching position after Pat Riley stepped down.

I look at somebody like Ime, he left here to be an asst coach in Brooklyn and the Sixers. Eventually, an East coast team (Boston) hired him as a head coach.

Even the odd chance to be an interim coach until season's end is simply more likely to happen somewhere else.

I do agree with you that becoming a head coach is difficult. There's a limited number of open seats at any given time, and teams are not firing coaches like they used to a number of years back.

Graphic on the telecast a week or so showed the top 5 coaches tenure in their current job. Number 5 was Taylor Jenkins at Memphis with 5 years. If there are 25 teams with coaches tenure of less than 5 years, coaches are definitely being fired. Hell, last summer alone two coaches who led their teams to titles, Nurse and Bud, and another who took his team to the Finals, Monte, were ALL fired.

Coaches ARE being fired.

[ElNono]

Graphic on the telecast a week or so showed the top 5 coaches tenure in their current job. Number 5 was Taylor Jenkins at Memphis with 5 years. If there are 25 teams with coaches tenure of less than 5 years, coaches are definitely being fired. Hell, last summer alone two coaches who led their teams to titles, Nurse and Bud, and another who took his team to the Finals, Monte, were ALL fired.

Coaches ARE being fired.

I'm not saying they're not being fired. But you have 3-4 assistant coaches on each team, plus whatever sized pool of unemployed head coaches.

Even if there would be 4-5 seats open every season, the supply far outpaces the demand.

I just remember teams like Dallas that until they settled with Carlisle, they rotated coaches like crazy.

[Mugen]

Graphic on the telecast a week or so showed the top 5 coaches tenure in their current job. Number 5 was Taylor Jenkins at Memphis with 5 years. If there are 25 teams with coaches tenure of less than 5 years, coaches are definitely being fired. Hell, last summer alone two coaches who led their teams to titles, Nurse and Bud, and another who took his team to the Finals, Monte, were ALL fired.

Coaches ARE being fired.

Not enough of them tbh :lol

[lefty]

Spo is great but he he is bit leaving Miami

Also lol at Popped

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

https://i.imgflip.com/8v6idm.jpg

[MultiTroll]

:lol Nice bump.

So last years genius Sochan at PG for 40 games was just CIA Pop doing a stealth tank.

Genius. Look at the result.

[Splits]

search function off. can please someone bump the gutless worms thread

[exstatic]

search function off. can please someone bump the gutless worms thread

Use the paging function at the bottom, you lazy ass. No one else has search capability, either.

[TekXX]

So the 23-24 season tank job was for a guy who we hope learns how to shoot even though we need way better shooters on this team? 40 fucking years of Pop at the helm and his brilliance continues to shine

[Splits]

Use the paging function at the bottom, you lazy ass. No one else has search capability, either.

yeah, I could do that through thousands of threads or.... you could go fuck your mother someore

[spurraider21]

search function off. can please someone bump the gutless worms thread
for some of the threads you can just google it. "spurstalk gutless worms" as my search term brought it up as the first result

[Splits]

So the 23-24 season tank job was for a guy who we hope learns how to shoot even though we need way better shooters on this team? 40 fucking years of Pop at the helm and his brilliance continues to shine

don't forget, we get a pick in a draft in 7 years. baddabang baddabung

[Splits]

l
for some of the threads you can just google it. "spurstalk gutless worms" as my search term brought it up as the first result

lmao sad