Yahoo: Spurs' talks for Andrei Kirilenko end without deal

[ace3g]

354968403552903169

Hopefully one of these teams is the Spurs

[xmas1997]

354968403552903169

Obviously, the Spurs are one of the "two other teams besides the Wolves".

[Knoxxx]

Hopefully one of these teams is the Spurs

I seriously doubt it would be for lack of trying!

[milkyway21]

Hopefully one of these teams is the Spurs

Probably.

[loveforthegame]

I don't want to get my hopes up. Damnit. I am.

[Knoxxx]

Because it doesn't matter. Okc wants a trade exception. Minny can sign km outright but Okc wants the trade exception in a sign and trade but Minny doesn't want to do a sign and trade. Minny wants to s&t for brewer but Denver doesn't want to. Spurs want to sign and trade for Ak but Minny doesn't want to.

Right but why not OKC just target AK47 for themselves?

[Mal]

Right but why not OKC just target AK47 for themselves?

They could, but SF/PF isnt their lacking asset. They need shooters and scorers of the bench. SF is Durant PF is Ibaka. Probably not too much room for AK

[TheWriter]

Right but why not OKC just target AK47 for themselves?

Because 1) they are over the cap. 2) they do not want to go over lux cap. 3) they don't need him as they're set with wings.

Thy just want the exception for Martin. Minny doesn't have o do that. Any trade would be about getting Brewer.

[jyra]

Right but why not OKC just target AK47 for themselves?

OKC doesn't want to go into luxury tax territory. If they did then they could have just resigned Kevin Martin in the first place. Right now they are about $4M under the tax line.

[xmas1997]

They could, but SF/PF isnt their lacking asset. They need shooters and scorers of the bench. SF is Durant PF is Ibaka. Probably not too much room for AK


And they might have more of a need for say Neal or Bonner.

[raybies]

If Minnesota misses on Brewer would they then settle for the deal for Kirilenko?

[K-State Spur]

Right but why not OKC just target AK47 for themselves?

Unless he took a discount to what he's rumored to be looking for, he'd almost certainly make the Thunder tax payers for the next 2 years (which they've never been willing to do for even 1).

[CGD]

I don't think the Spurs are out of it. Maybe via the S&T route, but who knows what Minni will have to do to get both Brewer AND Martin. If AK's rights are renounced, I'm just not sure he'll fetch anything greater than MLE-level money. The Spurs can still cobble together around that amount of cap space by amnestying Bonner and maybe moving a part like Mills' expiring deal for a 2nd round pick.

[xmas1997]

The good news is No news, I mean no news about them renouncing AK47 yet.

[elec99]

Does MN have to renounce AK's rights to sign elsewhere? Or can he just do it since he is 'unrestricted', right?

I'm wondering if it is within the rules for a team (other than MN) under the cap to do a S&T with AK, who then goes to SAS for players, cash, etc.


I'm wondering do you even need MN to make this happen? I mean, what's the point of being an unrestricted FA if you have to wait for your former employer to renounce you first.


New at this....

[temujin]

Spurs don't really need another foreign softie.

He is not foreign since he is a US citizen since 2011, it's the softie.
I can't remember a single big shot in a clutch moment in any game since Euro 2007.
Even with Russia, in which he is supposed to be the star.
Plus he has missed at least 15 games in the previous 4 seasons.
Plus he is 32.
9 M for 3/4 years for this guy?

As someone wrote, Spurs FO is not stupid.

[Knoxxx]

So basically Denver and OKC are faced with losing a player with no compensation. OKC has no cap space and just $4 million additional salary room. Denver can block the Brewer acquisition though, forcing Minny to play ball there. Why would Denver not want to retain Brewer? They already lost Iggy.

[jyra]

I'm wondering if it is within the rules for a team (other than MN) under the cap to do a S&T with AK, who then goes to SAS for players, cash, etc.

No, that's not possible.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89)


The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.

[spurraider21]

Right but why not OKC just target AK47 for themselves?

i believe signing draft picks + mle puts them over the luxury tax

[spurraider21]

So basically Denver and OKC are faced with losing a player with no compensation. OKC has no cap space and just $4 million additional salary room. Denver can block the Brewer acquisition though, forcing Minny to play ball there. Why would Denver not want to retain Brewer? They already lost Iggy.

because us getting AK is destiny... i guess

[Knoxxx]

He is not foreign since he is a US citizen since 2011, it's the softie.
I can't remember a single big shot in a clutch moment in any game since Euro 2007.
Even with Russia, in which he is supposed to be the star.
Plus he has missed at least 15 games in the previous 4 seasons.
Plus he is 32.
9 M for 3/4 years for this guy?

As someone wrote, Spurs FO is not stupid.

Yes, but $9 million to get one point better buys us a championship. Does that math make more sense?

[elec99]

No, that's not possible.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89)

Good to know.

[elec99]

So basically Denver and OKC are faced with losing a player with no compensation. OKC has no cap space and just $4 million additional salary room. Denver can block the Brewer acquisition though, forcing Minny to play ball there. Why would Denver not want to retain Brewer? They already lost Iggy.

There's always the possibility that brewer doesnt want to come back to denver. So either they let him walk or get something out of it I'm guessing?

[tmtcsc]

Flip Saunders is a rookie GM douchebag. Quit playing games son and make things happen. I'm glad Denver's playing hardball with him. Bullshit.

[elec99]

Better question is why does MN have a hard on for Brewer?? To each his own I guess

[milkyway21]

because us getting AK is destiny... i guess :lmao

[temujin]

Yes, but $9 million to get one point better buys us a championship. Does that math make more sense?

So what is the actual hint that Kirilenko will make Spurs better?

they will win a lot of RS games with or without him.
What's needed are players with guts to make tough shots in clutch moments of PO games against top teams.
Stuff Kirilenko has never ever done in the NBA.
Those that have witnessed the gigantic Kililenko's led CSKA meltdown in the Euroleague 2012 final will tell you to stay away from the guy.

Plus he would most likely have to play the 4 for the most part. A Splitter-Kirilenko frontline is going to be outrebounded by anybody.

3 years 10 M total max. Or he could go play for the ever irrelevant Minnesotas of this world.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Obviously, the Spurs are one of the "two other teams besides the Wolves".

It looks like there will be a 4 way deal b/n OKC, Nuggets, Spurs and T'wolves. Having a four team deal takes quite awhile to finalize. I wouldn't be surprise at all if Kirilenko is a Spurs by this afternoon.

[gameFACE]

I didn't see anyone answer this ...
My guess would be AK off the bench.

[rjv]

At least good to know that Spurs haven't been just fine with standing pat. Kirilenko would have been just great.

Assuming the Kirilenko talks are dead, have Spurs a plan B that isn't just sticking with what they have? A key to that question is Bonner's contract: Have Spurs been able to push back the guaranteed deadline? Have they even tried to do so?

And Kirilenko could have been likely had without a S&T. With Belinelli signed with the room exception, Neal renounced, Bonner amnestied, De Colo and Mills salary dumped, Spurs could have offered Kirlenko a contract starting at $8M by just signing him with cap space. I really don't get why Spurs haven't done that. Are Pendergraph and Bonner worth Kirilenko?

bonner no, without a doubt but i'm keeping an open mind in regards to pendergraph.

[Mal]

So what is the actual hint that Kirilenko will make Spurs better?

they will win a lot of RS games with or without him.
What's needed are players with guts to make tough shots in clutch moments of PO games against top teams.
Stuff Kirilenko has never ever done in the NBA.
Those that have witnessed the gigantic Kililenko's led CSKA meltdown in the Euroleague 2012 final will tell you to stay away from the guy.

Plus he would most likely have to play the 4 for the most part. A Splitter-Kirilenko frontline is going to be outrebounded by anybody.

3 years 10 M total max. Or he could go play for the ever irrelevant Minnesotas of this world.

Lol wut ? Kirilenko is good defender, good rebounder. Spurs adding good defensive player, who can do all on court will be better. Kirilenko with his wingspan is good to throw him on LeBron and Durant. And Spurs still got Leonard to throw him on any guard, and Duncan protecting the rim. This is good signing if happen, whatever the price.

[DPG21920]

If the S&T option falls through, I really hope the spurs told Pendergrapgh his deal is dependent on other moves. Or that it's the min. If its not the min, they should walk away and get AK directly.

[bklynspursfan]

If the S&T option falls through, I really hope the spurs told Pendergrapgh his deal is dependent on other moves. Or that it's the min. If its not the min, they should walk away and get AK directly.

That would be a pretty good plan B...

[houston spurs fan]

Flip Saunders has failed at everything he has done in life. What a piece of shit.

[rjv]

I missed that in Woj article. In that case, it makes little sense. Minny won 31 games last season. they aren't in a position where they should be worried about making contenders stronger. If a Kirilenko S&T allows them to also get Cory Brewer, they should go for it.

a lot of that was due to the injuries to love and rubio though. wolves could be a bubble team for the last playoff spot.

[ducks]

One would think there would be a deal worked out where Minnesota gets Kevin Martin, Spurs get AK47 and OKC gets scraps, picks and a trade exception. And maybe the T'Wolves can shed Ridnour somewhere in the deal if they need encouragement to cooperate.

Maybe I'm missing something but that looks like it'd help all three teams, tbh.

GET HER DONE

[elec99]

Or, we could trade away a combination of mills, colo, bonner to a team and just get a pick(s) back, then straight up sign AK?
If MN doesnt or cant play ball then this could be another plan B, we wont need MN for this.

[davidbowie]

flip was always an overrated piece of shit

[Leetonidas]

What? Did you finally get a CLUE that your Manu bashing was getting tiresome to most of us? Thank God!

So any criticism is bashing him? You're a fucking faggot, get his dick out of your ass. Dude is in my fucking avatar, I've stated multiple times he's my 2nd favorite Spur and I want him on this team, but he deserves criticism for his contract. Quit being a fucking delusional homer and open your eyes. Manu is not infallable and it's ridiculous that some of you twats are defending his contract. And no, no one has said shit to me besides you, twat.

besides what happened to :cry im going to put you on my ignore list :cry dipshit :lol

[Leetonidas]

jezz. you are not exactly familiar with CBA rules, are you? but you would know how to run a franchise. Oh well.

No asswipe, 99% of the people on here aren't and leach off of Bruno's knowledge. I figured if a team signed a free agent even to a one year deal then we'd have his Bird rights and be able to offer him a better deal the next season. If not then my mistake, no need to be a little **** about it :rolleyes

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

So any criticism is bashing him? You're a fucking faggot, get his dick out of your ass. Dude is in my fucking avatar, I've stated multiple times he's my 2nd favorite Spur and I want him on this team, but he deserves criticism for his contract. Quit being a fucking delusional homer and open your eyes. Manu is not infallable and it's ridiculous that some of you twats are defending his contract. And no, no one has said shit to me besides you, twat.

besides what happened to :cry im going to put you on my ignore list :cry dipshit :lol

Honestly Manu contract really wouldn't have made a difference. IF he signed for 4 mil a year, the Spurs would still be only 3-4 mil under the cap and it would have counted against the MLE.

The Biggest obstacle was the superfluous players the Spurs have on their team like Bonner/Mills/Cojo/De Colo taking up about 10mil of cap space. Spurs for many years now, like to push themselves over the cap after resigning their own players so that they can have the full MLE beyond the salary cap limitation. Keep these guys on the roster gave the Spurs assets to complete a S&T this offseason, which they are currently working on at the moment.

If manu got 3 or 7 mil a year this year, it wouldn't have had any impact whatsoever on the Spurs trying to sign Kirilenko for a 8 mil dollar a year deal b/c the most they could have offer was the MLE. It does effect them next year, but today's trouble are enough if you hear me.

[ducks]

if manu took 4 they could cut booner

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

if manu took 4 they could cut booner

Could, but we all know that wasn't happening.

[Chinook]

No asswipe, 99% of the people on here aren't and leach off of Bruno's knowledge. I figured if a team signed a free agent even to a one year deal then we'd have his Bird rights and be able to offer him a better deal the next season. If not then my mistake, no need to be a little **** about it :rolleyes

They'd have is Non-Bird Rights and would only be able to re-sign him at a small increase. That's why the Spurs had to use the MLE on Diaw last season. Since his contract last year was so big to begin with, the Wolves could give him the deal he wants using his Non-Bird Rights. The Spurs wouldn't be able to next season.

[Leetonidas]

Honestly Manu contract really wouldn't have made a difference. IF he signed for 4 mil a year, the Spurs would still be only 3-4 mil under the cap and it would have counted against the MLE.

The Biggest obstacle was the superfluous players the Spurs have on their team like Bonner/Mills/Cojo/De Colo taking up about 10mil of cap space. Spurs for many years now, like to push themselves over the cap after resigning their own players so that they can have the full MLE beyond the salary cap limitation. Keep these guys on the roster gave the Spurs assets to complete a S&T this offseason, which they are currently working on at the moment.

If manu got 3 or 7 mil a year this year, it wouldn't have had any impact whatsoever on the Spurs trying to sign Kirilenko for a 8 mil dollar a year deal b/c the most they could have offer was the MLE. It does effect them next year, but today's trouble are enough if you hear me.
tbh I agree with you but him taking a smaller contract would've given us more flexibility. We don't know had he taken a little less what the Spurs may have planned to do but that's not the case so it doesn't matter now. But either way, he is overpaid, and the vast majority of people who follow the NBA agree, the only ones who don't are blind Ginobili homers. RealGM had a poll about the worst contract so far and iirc Ginobili was winning in a landslide. So it's not just my opinion, I'm not a "Manu hater," i fucking love Gino, but I just don't feel he is worth 7M a season at this point, imo

[Leetonidas]

They'd have is Non-Bird Rights and would only be able to re-sign him at a small increase. That's why the Spurs had to use the MLE on Diaw last season. Since his contract last year was so big to begin with, the Wolves could give him the deal he wants using his Non-Bird Rights. The Spurs wouldn't be able to next season.

So he would still get an increase but only marginal, gotcha. Thanks for explaining that in a non-douchey way

[tuncaboylu]

if manu took 4 they could cut booner
That's correct.
Maybe we should make better negotiate with Splitter and Manu.
12M for 2 years with Manu
Splitter for 32M for 4 years
No Pendergraph
Cutting Bonner.
Would be enough for us.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

They'd have is Non-Bird Rights and would only be able to re-sign him at a small increase. That's why the Spurs had to use the MLE on Diaw last season. Since his contract last year was so big to begin with, the Wolves could give him the deal he wants using his Non-Bird Rights. The Spurs wouldn't be able to next season.

I believe there are 3 levels, Non-Bird (1 yr w/ team), Early Bird (2 yr w/ team) and Full Bird (3 yr w/ team) and each one allows a certain % increase in resigning a team's free agents. If the Spurs complete a S&T, the Spurs will have Kirilenko's early bird rights next year, but it wouldn't matter b/c the Spurs were talking about signing him to a 4 year deal this offseason.

[Leetonidas]

besides iirc Bruno did the math and had Ginobili taken a lesser contract, the Spurs would've known they could free up a bigger chunk of capspace for Kirilenko by waiving Bonner, but perhaps they felt it's not an option now with Manu's contract. It's obvious they really want AK47 so it's not crazy to think Manu's contract may have affected their abilities to seriously pursue him

[coyotes_geek]

I don't see the incentive here for OKC to help us (their chief rivals) get AK while they lose Martin and only get a trade exception.

This. OKC is already close to lux tax territory and it's clear they want to stay out of there, as evidenced by trading harden and letting the guy they traded harden for walk on them. The odds of them ever using whatever trade exception they'd receive from getting involved in this mega-S&T swap are slim, so why bother when it would strengthen your strongest competitor?

[Keepin' it real]

My guess would be AK off the bench.

So Spurstalk wants to pay AK $7-10M to come off the bench? That's a horrible idea.

And please don't come back with Manu salary comparisons. Manu earned the $14M/per year contract he had, as well as the $7M/per year contract he just agreed to. Three NBA titles and a decade of excellence command some financial respect.

[Marcus Bryant]

GET HER DONE

[-21-]

AK47 would be really useful against Durant and LeBron. Hope we get him somehow.

[UZER]

I believe there are 3 levels, Non-Bird (1 yr w/ team), Early Bird (2 yr w/ team) and Full Bird (3 yr w/ team) and each one allows a certain % increase in resigning a team's free agents. If the Spurs complete a S&T, the Spurs will have Kirilenko's early bird rights next year, but it wouldn't matter b/c the Spurs were talking about signing him to a 4 year deal this offseason.

ah...so the 2nd y/team will get the worm. Thanks

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

tbh I agree with you but him taking a smaller contract would've given us more flexibility. We don't know had he taken a little less what the Spurs may have planned to do but that's not the case so it doesn't matter now. But either way, he is overpaid, and the vast majority of people who follow the NBA agree, the only ones who don't are blind Ginobili homers. RealGM had a poll about the worst contract so far and iirc Ginobili was winning in a landslide. So it's not just my opinion, I'm not a "Manu hater," i fucking love Gino, but I just don't feel he is worth 7M a season at this point, imo

I totally agree, but I guess Spurs are just awarding him IMO for turning down that 5 yr contract with the Nuggets which would have paid him 25 mil more. If the Spurs can S&T for Kirilenko and possibly Ellis, which both are still viable option, I think Manu's contract this year will be an afterthought. Let's hope the Spurs put something together by today or tomorrow to justify that contract.

[ducks]

So Spurstalk wants to pay AK $7-10M to come off the bench? That's a horrible idea.

And please don't come back with Manu salary comparisons. Manu earned the $14M/per year contract he had, as well as the $7M/per year contract he just agreed to. Three NBA titles and a decade of excellence command some financial respect.

your point
it is about minutes and it is who finishes
ak47 could finish

[ducks]

I If the Spurs can S&T for Kirilenko and possibly Ellis, which both are still viable option, I.

really you think they could get both?

[xmas1997]

And please don't come back with Manu salary comparisons. Manu earned the $14M contract he had, as well as the $7M he just agreed to. Three NBA titles and a decade of excellence command some financial respect.

One of the more intelligent posts concerning Manu that I've read, and I am not a Manu homer, however I am a Spurs homer, and proud of it!

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

So Spurstalk wants to pay AK $7-10M to come off the bench? That's a horrible idea.

.

Not really. The Spurs don't mind being close to the Tax line. They have been for the past 10 years. If you get a guy that can guard Durant and Lebron on the wing due to his 7'4" span and his 6'9 height, you should get that guy. Kirilenko would have been the perfect guy to counter GS and the Heat's small ball line-up. There would no longer be a mismatches like Green/Neal guarding Harrison Barnes.

[Leetonidas]

I totally agree, but I guess Spurs are just awarding him IMO for turning down that 5 yr contract with the Nuggets which would have paid him 25 mil more. If the Spurs can S&T for Kirilenko and possibly Ellis, which both are still viable option, I think Manu's contract this year will be an afterthought. Let's hope the Spurs put something together by today or tomorrow to justify that contract.

Ellis I don't see happening (makes even less sense with news of Neal maybe re-signing) but AK my fingers are still crossed for. I agree about Manu, I know they are rewarding him now for his loyalty but I always thought Manu would put the team before himself. I'm not blaming him, because it's hard to turn down an extra 2M and it's not my money, but it's not like he was making chump change last season either, and when your other two teammates take contracts paying them well below market value, how can you not do the same to give them the best chance to compete knowing this is it for them?

Like I said, if people actually read what I'm saying, I'm not a Manu hater at all. But to say he is immune from criticism for past deeds and you're just a hater if you call him out at all is fucking ludicrous, especially when I've defended and supported him since day 1.

[Leetonidas]

Three NBA titles and a decade of excellence command some financial respect.

Using that logic, the Celtics should have given Shaq a lot more cash in his final season due his 4 NBA titles and decade-plus of excellence. No, they shouldn't have. Manu was overpaid last season for his production, you don't reward someone's past accomplishments and overpay then when they're 36. Don't act like he was slighted and made 2 million a season for his career. Manu should've shown a little more respect for his aging teammates who took way less than what they could've gotten somewhere else. Duncan could be getting paid 15-17 million a season right now if he waned to. Parker as well. But they understand they had to make sacrifices to keep the wheels intact.

[Marcus Bryant]

He meant what Ginobili did for the Spurs, not what he did elsewhere. /obvious

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

really you think they could get both?

Yes. Trade Bonner/Decolo in the T'wolves trade. That is 6.5mil of salaries gone. Spurs, now they are over the cap can only take back 125% more in salaries I believe. So 8mil a year contract is doable.

Spurs resign Neal to a 3.5mil a year contract and trade him and say Cojo in the Buck/Atl deal. There is 5.5mil which the Spurs can sign and trade Ellis for 7 mil a year.

Spurs have 7 guards plus Neal's rights. Someone has to go at this point. And losing three guards and getting a much better one in return wouldn't hurt the Spurs at all. Plus you would swap Bonner for AK.

It's doable. I wouldn't care if the Spurs gave up their 2 2013 2nd round picks in the T'Wolves trade and their 1st next year in the Bucks/Atl trade to make this happen. Getting these two guys would make the Spurs the clear cut best team in the NBA IMO.

[Leetonidas]

Again, he just came of a 14 million a season contract, he wasn't underpaid. His decision to win titles in SA or be irrelevant in Denver 10 years ago shouldn't factor into this.

Either way, his contract is done, so it doesn't matter. Spurs need to focus on what they can still do despite this. As I've said a million times, I'm very happy to have Manu back, just wish he would've taken a little less. And if you disagree idgaf

[ace3g]

By the way, when is the last time the Spurs have been involved in a 4 team trade?

[Spursfanfromafar]

So Spurstalk wants to pay AK $7-10M to come off the bench? That's a horrible idea.

And please don't come back with Manu salary comparisons. Manu earned the $14M/per year contract he had, as well as the $7M/per year contract he just agreed to. Three NBA titles and a decade of excellence command some financial respect.

There is no doubt at all that Manu earned his contract. He will retire as a Spurs and will be a Spurs all time legend (and my favourite basketball player).

But it doesn't retract from the fact that had he taken a $2 million cut to around $5M per year contract, the Spurs could have possibly landed Andrei Kirilenko as a free agent itself. Very high possibility actually. It is not Manu's fault. It is just the "game", as they say it.

[Leetonidas]

There is no doubt at all that Manu earned his contract. He will retire as a Spurs and will be a Spurs all time legend (and my favourite basketball player).

But it doesn't retract from the fact that had he taken a $2 million cut to around $5M per year contract, the Spurs could have possibly landed Andrei Kirilenko as a free agent itself. Very high possibility actually. It is not Manu's fault. It is just the "game", as they say it.

thank you

[dallasmaverickslose]

Anybody know who we would've given to Minny if the S&T went through?

[ducks]

spurs should just call manu ask him to take 2 million less to get ak47 and see what he says nothing is signed
if splitter and ak47 took a little less or splitter restructed his deal to be more backloaded.....

[ducks]

Anybody know who we would've given to Minny if the S&T went through?

duncan and tp for him

[dallasmaverickslose]

duncan and tp for him

Pop too. Right?

[TE]

There is no doubt at all that Manu earned his contract. He will retire as a Spurs and will be a Spurs all time legend (and my favourite basketball player).

But it doesn't retract from the fact that had he taken a $2 million cut to around $5M per year contract, the Spurs could have possibly landed Andrei Kirilenko as a free agent itself. Very high possibility actually. It is not Manu's fault. It is just the "game", as they say it.

I agree with this post completely and I can relate as a pseudo-Manu homer. People not wanting to acknowledge that Manu could've taken less salary-wise ala a Tim Duncan of previous offseasons are just as bad as those that came to criticize his play after the finals.

[ducks]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kings-talks-free-agent-ellis-163023931--nba.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CfsiN1RvUUANaFNbK5_

kings after ellis

[ducks]

so any spur fan in st paul to go scare flip to death to get deal done?

[ElNono]

People here are assuming that the Spurs want to swallow that $4m contract from Bonner through the amnesty... I don't think that's the case at all.

At some point the Spurs had to decide whether to throw $1m in the trash in order to get capspace or guarantee the $4m deal and turn it into a tradeable contract, and it's obvious they decided the later. From there on out, the rest was fairly predictable: re-sign your own talent, replace Blair and potentially Neal, and see if you can use that $4m chip + some other smaller contracts to flip into some usable talent (ie: AK).

The FO didn't even need to ask Manu for a $2m discount. They could've simply structured his deal as a 3 season deal, with only $3m guaranteed in the 3rd year and a team option. But IMO, it's pretty clear that using capspace wasn't the plan at all.

[ducks]

they do not want manu on the book
they want to go get love or another big fa
tp,love,splitter,green ... after 2005 with ak pretty good

[DesignatedT]

Spurs could have played the salary situation so much better. Simple moves such as buying out Bonner's unguaranteed deal, renouncing Neal, trading Mills and or De Colo in salary dump moves could have created the space to sign Belinelli with the room exception and go after someone like AK outright. Even if they somehow were to lose out on AK in this scenario (unlikely but I'm assuming they were worried about this scenario?) they can then go sign Pendergraph and all they lose out of the whole ordeal is Bonner. Fucking Matt Bonner.

[Budkin]

Motherfucker. Flip Saunders can fuck himself.

[Robz4000]

they do not want manu on the book
they want to go get love or another big fa
tp,love,splitter,green ... after 2005 with ak pretty good

You forgot Kawhi tbh.

[xmas1997]

I agree with this post completely and I can relate as a pseudo-Manu homer. People not wanting to acknowledge that Manu could've taken less salary-wise ala a Tim Duncan of previous offseasons are just as bad as those that came to criticize his play after the finals.

I agree. The problem is some on here want to rehash everything until most of us are sick of hearing about it regardless if the criticism is justified or not. Whats done is done, people need to get over it. Too much or little of anything is bad for you.
And what is the point of beating an already dead horse? He's not going to get any more dead, right? Plus we've heard all the critiques of Manu ad nauseum, ala the great hatch.

[ducks]

yeah he will be a stud

[Budkin]

Spurs could have played the salary situation so much better. Simple moves such as buying out Bonner's unguaranteed deal, renouncing Neal, trading Mills and or De Colo in salary dump moves could have created the space to sign Belinelli with the room exception and go after someone like AK outright. Even if they somehow were to lose out on AK in this scenario (unlikely) they can then go sign Pendergraph and all they lose out of the whole ordeal is Bonner. Fucking Matt Bonner.

Seriously... FO looking like a bunch of amateurs. Matt Bonner needs to fucking go.

[ducks]

Minnesota Timberwolves Beat Writer / Columnist Tweets
pretty good feed for info IMO

http://sportspyder.com/teams/minnesota-timberwolves/tweeter_types/3/tweets

[Bruno]

People here are assuming that the Spurs want to swallow that $4m contract from Bonner through the amnesty... I don't think that's the case at all.

Even if Spurs amnesty Bonner, Spurs will end up spending less money on players than last season. I don't think assuming that, Spurs ownership, that was fine with Spurs giving $69.5M to players in 2012-2013, won't be fine with Spurs spending about $68M on players in 2013-2014, is some crazy reach.

[Robz4000]

The fact it's been determined that AK wants to play for the Spurs is huge. Even if they aren't able to S&T for him, they could still salary dump some players and offer him a decent deal and backload it so he gets his preferred $8-9 mil. Then again who the fuck knows, I'm fairly ignorant on how the salary cap works and it might all be impossible. However, it's not like any other contenders are showing interest.

[DesignatedT]

The fact it's been determined that AK wants to play for the Spurs is huge. Even if they aren't able to S&T for him, they could still salary dump some players and offer him a decent deal and backload it so he gets his preferred $8-9 mil. Then again who the fuck knows, I'm fairly ignorant on how the salary cap works and it might all be impossible. However, it's not like any other contenders are showing interest.

If the Spurs have already agreed to split up the MLE with Belinelli and Pendergraph then they can't open up any cap room.

[K-State Spur]

The fact it's been determined that AK wants to play for the Spurs is huge.

Unfortunately, that has not been determined as fact.

[DesignatedT]

The Spurs better fucking move Bonner or something. Seriously.

Seems like they tailored their whole off-season plan around not wanting to take the risk of losing Bonner for nothing.

[lurker23]

It seems like the eyes of all Spurs fans should be on Corey Brewer. If he decides to go somewhere other than Minnesota, perhaps this deal can be resurrected.

[Poolboy5623]

What is flip Saunders doing as a gm? Fired as head coach, brought back as gm....

[ElNono]

Even if Spurs amnesty Bonner, Spurs will end up spending less money on players than last season. I don't think assuming that, Spurs ownership, that was fine with Spurs giving $69.5M to players in 2012-2013, won't be fine with Spurs spending about $68M on players in 2013-2014, is some crazy reach.

It doesn't matter how much they pay other players. Its clear they rather have an expiring $4m contract to trade than having to pay $4m to create $4m in cap space. I don't even think they wanted to spend $1m to create $4m in cap space. Barring anything indicating otherwise, that's the decision they made when they decided to guarantee Bonner's deal.

[Robz4000]

Unfortunately, that has not been determined as fact.

If the Spurs were attempting to negotiate a S&T, they prolly already talked to AK47 and his agent and mutual interest was garnered.

[poop]

The Spurs better fucking move Bonner or something. Seriously.

Seems like they tailored their whole off-season plan around not wanting to take the risk of losing Bonner for nothing.

Lmao wouldn't surprise me one bit. I bet the first thing out of Pops mouth when they sat down to discuss offseason plans were ' WE ARE KEEPING BONNER!'

[coyotes_geek]

People here are assuming that the Spurs want to swallow that $4m contract from Bonner through the amnesty... I don't think that's the case at all.

At some point the Spurs had to decide whether to throw $1m in the trash in order to get capspace or guarantee the $4m deal and turn it into a tradeable contract, and it's obvious they decided the later. From there on out, the rest was fairly predictable: re-sign your own talent, replace Blair and potentially Neal, and see if you can use that $4m chip + some other smaller contracts to flip into some usable talent (ie: AK).

The FO didn't even need to ask Manu for a $2m discount. They could've simply structured his deal as a 3 season deal, with only $3m guaranteed in the 3rd year and a team option. But IMO, it's pretty clear that using capspace wasn't the plan at all.

I don't think it's so much about the money as it is all the pieces that you have to line up in order to clear enough capspace to sign a guy like AK who's asking for $8-$9 mil. If all the Spurs had to do was amnesty bonner and renounce neal, that's easy. But the Spurs would have to trade a couple of guys in salary dump moves, and those aren't nearly as easy as people like to make it out to be. You've got to find a team with cap room or a trade exception. And seriously, if you're a team with cap room, you're not looking to blow a chunk of it on guys like Mills and Decolo on the very first day of free agency.

[HarlemHeat37]

I actually agree with temujin that AK isn't necessarily a "clutch" player, but he isn't going to be in a role where it matters, tbh..on his teams overseas, he's a primary option with a lot of pressure..on this Spurs team, he's going to be the #6 offensive option and he'll be coming off the bench:lol..

Kirilenko had a very good year last year, Minnesota fans were happy with his production, tbh..the team is letting him go because it doesn't make sense for them to give a 32-year old a multi-year offer when heir team isn't even close to contending for a title, tbh..

He's still a very solid defensive player that posted a 18 PER last year IIRC..

The Spurs have 2 glaring holes IMO..a backup ball-handler and a SF/PF to play against Miami/OKC and maybe even Golden State now..it seems like they're confident in Joseph's progression, and AK fits the 2nd hole perfectly..it would be a shame if they can't acquire him, especially for reasons such as giving inflated contracts to shitty players or holding on to scrubs for emotional reasons, tbh:lol..

[ElNono]

I don't think it's so much about the money as it is all the pieces that you have to line up in order to clear enough capspace to sign a guy like AK who's asking for $8-$9 mil. If all the Spurs had to do was amnesty bonner and renounce neal, that's easy. But the Spurs would have to trade a couple of guys in salary dump moves, and those aren't nearly as easy as people like to make it out to be. You've got to find a team with cap room or a trade exception. And seriously, if you're a team with cap room, you're not looking to blow a chunk of it on guys like Mills and Decolo on the very first day of free agency.

Agreed, and that's exactly what I was saying when I was talking about a gamble earlier.

[DesignatedT]

If Houston can salary dump Royce White to Philly after 10 minutes of negotiations. The Spurs could salary dump Mills or De Colo. This is not an issue and it is not difficult to do.

[DesignatedT]

Agreed, and that's exactly what I was saying when I was talking about a gamble earlier.

What's the gamble? Losing Bonner and Mills?

[ducks]

white was a first round pick

[Leetonidas]

white was a first round pick

he's also the biggest headcase piece of shit in the nba

[DesignatedT]

white was a first round pick

He also suffers of severe mental illness.

[timvp]

Damn, those tweets give me hope. Obviously, the Spurs are still trying to keep the AK47 hopes alive. We should know soon if they're able to get in on this multi-team sign-and-trade deal.

[DesignatedT]

We need to get Atlanta on the phone and have them help us out. sweeten the pot or something :lol

[fleggy2k2]

What's the gamble? Losing Bonner and Mills?

this is the gamble i think Nono was referring to, per the other AK thread


No, you're missing the point. They could've done all this ass backward moves to try to clear $8m in cap space then Cavs come in and offer AK $12m/4 years. That's the gamble. I think they feel pretty good with the team we have. That's the priority. If you can improve from there, good.

[Leetonidas]

Damn, those tweets give me hope. Obviously, the Spurs are still trying to keep the AK47 hopes alive. We should know soon if they're able to get in on this multi-team sign-and-trade deal.

dog-praying.jpg

[DesignatedT]

this is the gamble i think Nono was referring to, per the other AK thread

So the gamble is losing Bonner and Mills. Even if we were to clear the cap space and lose out of the AK sweepstakes. We could still have gotten Belinelli. Still have gotten Pendergraph. Just no Bonner or Mills. Well we still have MLE money to replace that with other FA signing.

The risk revolved around Matt Bonner. Lol

[ElNono]

What's the gamble? Losing Bonner and Mills?


this is the gamble i think Nono was referring to, per the other AK thread

Yep, plus the fact that while we might despise Bonner, the team obviously values him to the point they rather have him be part of the team if they can't make a deal.

[K-State Spur]

If the Spurs were attempting to negotiate a S&T, they prolly already talked to AK47 and his agent and mutual interest was garnered.

probably/maybe, but it's not a fact. there's rumor that backs your point. However, if the Spurs did sign Bellineli & Pendergrass to MLE - then that would serve as evidence to the contrary that they never got very far with AK47. it's not implausible that AK's agent just floated this rumor to spur interest from other teams who consider Spurs front office to be one of the smartest in the game. i certainly HOPE that there's more to it than that - but we don't know anything yet.

there's two components to this, obviously, agreeing to a deal with kirilenko and agreeing to a deal with minnesota - how far the Spurs have gotten with either has not been established.

[ElNono]

So the gamble is losing Bonner and Mills. Even if we were to clear the cap space and lose out of the AK sweepstakes. We could still have gotten Belinelli. Still have gotten Pendergraph. Just no Bonner or Mills. Well we still have MLE money to replace that with other FA signing.

The risk revolved around Matt Bonner. Lol

I'll tell you what I told Manny in that other thread: If you don't know how much the Spurs value Matty, then you haven't been paying attention (and I agree with you about Bonner)

[K-State Spur]

when's the last time that praying-dog.jpg worked for anybody?

[ducks]

3. Andrei Kirilenko

Memo to other teams: the Spurs tried to land Andrei Kirilenko in a sign-and-trade. You may want to make an effort to pick him up. He was a borderline All-Star pick last season in the West before injuries set in. And, sure, that's a concern. He's 31. He's played a ton of international minutes in addition to NBA minutes. But he has a huge impact on the floor, particularly on defense, and is one of the league's more versatile players. Chances are, you can sneak in a two-year deal.



http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/10/4510290/nba-free-agents-2013-rankings-andrew-bynum-nikola-pekovic

[xmas1997]

So the gamble is losing Bonner and Mills. Even if we were to clear the cap space and lose out of the AK sweepstakes. We could still have gotten Belinelli. Still have gotten Pendergraph. Just no Bonner or Mills. Well we still have MLE money to replace that with other FA signing.

The risk revolved around Matt Bonner. Lol


I'll tell you what I told Manny in that other thread: If you don't know how much the Spurs value Matty, then you haven't been paying attention (and I agree with you about Bonner)


I agree, this is the crux of the situation, Bonner, not Manu, IMHO.

[ElNono]

I've wondered in the past if Matty was also going to get a loyalty deal for sealing that new CBA as part of the union, tbh...

[DesignatedT]

Lol

[SpursSerb]

Honestly we should close this thread until something actually happens.It could be zillion pages of nothing.

[ducks]

then quit posting in here and start your own forum

[Raven]

more pain for my heart :depressed

[boutons_deux]

Honestly we should close this thread until something actually happens.It could be zillion pages of nothing.

ALL! ST trade/GM threads are already futile "zillion pages of nothing" :lol

[benefactor]

then quit posting in here and start your own forum
burn

[xmas1997]

Honestly we should close this thread until something actually happens.It could be zillion pages of nothing.


I agree. And the Manu is good, Manu is bad, pissing contests get us no where!:(:nope

[monkeypunk]

then quit posting in here and start your own forum

Ducks with the goods, :lol

[-21-]

then quit posting in here and start your own forum

:lol

[Darkwaters]

Honestly we should close this thread until something actually happens.It could be zillion pages of nothing.

Join date May 30th, 2013. It shows.

Yea, that's not how we do things around here. If we can't mindlessly obsess over a potential move that may or may not ever actually occur, then whats the point of this forum at all?

In time, you'll see.

[Chinook]

I believe there are 3 levels, Non-Bird (1 yr w/ team), Early Bird (2 yr w/ team) and Full Bird (3 yr w/ team) and each one allows a certain % increase in resigning a team's free agents. If the Spurs complete a S&T, the Spurs will have Kirilenko's early bird rights next year, but it wouldn't matter b/c the Spurs were talking about signing him to a 4 year deal this offseason.

No, they'd just have his Non-Bird Rights. You don't get credit for Bird years accrued on previous contracts, which is why Diaw and Mills have de-facto no-trade clauses this season.

[SpursSerb]

then quit posting in here and start your own forum

I'll pass on your advice.

[SpursSerb]

Join date May 30th, 2013. It shows.

Yea, that's not how we do things around here. If we can't mindlessly obsess over a potential move that may or may not ever actually occur, then whats the point of this forum at all?

In time, you'll see.

Just seems you put more posts the lesser the chance it actually happens.

[ace3g]

of course....

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Hearing: Wolves closing in on three-year deal with coveted swingman Corey Brewer in $15 million range

[ducks]

yes us posting effects the spurs front office and the wolves:lmao

[DesignatedT]

welp

[bklynspursfan]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)49s (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/355016389662228481)
Hearing: Wolves closing in on three-year deal with coveted swingman Corey Brewer in $15 million range

[Darkwaters]

Just seems you put more posts the lesser the chance it actually happens.

Not as long as you throw some salt over your left shoulder and cross all your fingers and toes while humming God Save the Queen.

[ducks]

damm 5 million for brewer?

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Exact mechanics of how Brewer ultimately returns to Wolves -- outright signing or sign-and-trade -- still being worked out

[fleggy2k2]

Not as long as you throw some salt over your left shoulder and cross all your fingers and toes while humming God Save the Queen.

brb tbh

[elemento]

What a dumb contract for Corey Brewer seriously.

[timtonymanu]

Honestly we should close this thread until something actually happens.It could be zillion pages of nothing.

I actually kind of agree with this. It can be quite a pain waiting for updates and most of the posts is just filter.


Just seems you put more posts the lesser the chance it actually happens.

Now this is stupid.

[Chinook]

Brewer's contract seems right along the lines of the MLE. That would suggest they got Martin using a sign-and-trade, or are at least leaving the possibility open to do so.

[ace3g]

I misread 3 years as 3 teams and used the .... because I figured Spurs missed out on the trade.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Rumbles persist that Luke Ridnour winding up in OKC as an offshoot on Kevin Martin's forthcoming signing with Wolves is option on the board

[Horse]

Fuck flip!

[SpursSerb]

I actually kind of agree with this. It can be quite a pain waiting for updates and most of the posts is just filter.



Now this is stupid.

Well it worked on Belli and Pendergraph. Kidding!

[xmas1997]

Sounds like Spurs are out of it.
Oh we'll, good bye Andrei, it was nice almost having you on the team!:rolleyes

[TE]

Fudge...

[Robz4000]

Welp, OKC getting better. Ridnour would add more much-needed playmaking to OKC and would allow them to use their small ball lineup. At least they aren't getting AK47.

[K-State Spur]

Sounds like Spurs are out of it.

PROBABLY never in it. That said, rumors have at least one additional team involved to the Thunder and Wolves. There's still a tiny hope until either team gets announced or the deal is official without a third team.

[xmas1997]

Welp, OKC getting better. Ridnour would add more much-needed playmaking to OKC and would allow them to use their small ball lineup. At least they aren't getting AK47.

But the question now is who is getting him?

[-21-]

:bang

[Robz4000]

But the question now is who is getting him?

Now it becomes a question of whether he wants more money or to play on a contender. Spurs can give him the MLE, but Cavs can give him his $8-9 mil.

[Budkin]

Pendergraph over AK47... smh

[K-State Spur]

Welp, OKC getting better. Ridnour would add more much-needed playmaking to OKC and would allow them to use their small ball lineup. At least they aren't getting AK47.

Ridnour's okay, certainly an upgrade over Fisher's corpse (but will he play much with Reggie Jackson's emergence?) - and his per minute stats should get a boost playing with Durant. But that's the first time I've ever heard his game labeled as "playmaking."

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Just seems you put more posts the lesser the chance it actually happens.

Dude, no matter how much we post, its not going to make a difference at the end of the day. Its just fun to formulate conjectures and scenarios. I hope this trade does go down. This is what I have been anticipating since FA started that the Spurs were going to make a substantial play via S&T this offseason. If just interesting that something almost materialize for the Spurs and seems like 4 teams (two unknown) have gone back to the drawing board to make it materialize.

[tuncaboylu]

Welp, OKC getting better. Ridnour would add more much-needed playmaking to OKC and would allow them to use their small ball lineup. At least they aren't getting AK47.


That's not true. He will be useless behind Westbrook and Reggie Jackson. Moreover he's not a play-maker, he's a shoot first PG.

And with this trade, they would be very near to luxury tax thrashold.

[Robz4000]

Ridnour's okay, certainly an upgrade over Fisher's corpse (but will he play much with Reggie Jackson's emergence?) - and his per minute stats should get a boost playing with Durant. But that's the first time I've ever heard his game labeled as "playmaking."

Compared to KMart he's better. Outside of Westchuck and Durant, no one can create their own shot. Kmart did nothing to really fix that. Ridnour can both create his own shot and others'. Playing back-up PG or SG in their small ball lineup will fit his game well.

[spurraider21]

Pendergraph over AK47... smh
So we could have just kept Neal instead of bringing in Marco and brought in AK instead of pendergraph (in conjunction with waiving or amnestying bonner). Ugh

[JohnRambo]

Now it becomes a question of whether he wants more money or to play on a contender. Spurs can give him the MLE, but Cavs can give him his $8-9 mil.
Do we still have the MLE? Then what do we use to sign Marco and Jeff?

[SpursSerb]

Now it becomes a question of whether he wants more money or to play on a contender. Spurs can give him the MLE, but Cavs can give him his $8-9 mil.

Do we still have the MLE?

[Robz4000]

That's not true. He will be useless behind Westbrook and Reggie Jackson. Moreover he's not a play-maker, he's a shoot first PG.

And with this trade, they would be very near to luxury tax thrashold.

They were at or near it regardless.

[timvp]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Rumbles persist that Luke Ridnour winding up in OKC as an offshoot on Kevin Martin's forthcoming signing with Wolves is option on the board




Spurs Get: AK47
Wolves Get: Martin
Thunder Get: Ridnour, spare parts, draft picks


prayingdog.jpg

[xmas1997]

Spurs Get: AK47
Wolves Get: Martin
Thunder Get: Ridnour, spare parts, draft picks.


prayingdog.jpg


Man, I hope you're right!

[-21-]

Spurs Get: AK47
Wolves Get: Martin
Thunder Get: Ridnour, spare parts, draft picks


prayingdog.jpg

Brewer would be signing straight up in this scenario?

[timvp]

Brewer would be signing straight up in this scenario?

AFAIK, the T'Wolves will then have the MLE to spend on Brewer if they go this route.

[K-State Spur]

Compared to KMart he's better. Outside of Westchuck and Durant, no one can create their own shot. Kmart did nothing to really fix that. Ridnour can both create his own shot and others'. Playing back-up PG or SG in their small ball lineup will fit his game well.

Playing Ridnour at the 2 isn't really a "small ball" lineup (which is almost exclusively determined by whether you play a post or a wing at the 4), it's just playing small.

[Raven]

goddamit!

[StoneBuddha]

Praying dog and all... why would OKC do something to help the previous Western Conference winner get better. Minnesota has other worries but the Spurs have to be one of OKC's biggest concerns, especially since the player the Spurs get in the sign and trade is brought in to be one of the chief defenders on their best player.

[Bruno]

With the luxury tax, Ridnour will cost something like $10M to OKC. I would be surprised to see them doing that kind of move that will raise their payroll like that.

[Knoxxx]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Rumbles persist that Luke Ridnour winding up in OKC as an offshoot on Kevin Martin's forthcoming signing with Wolves is option on the board




This answers my question what does OKC get but doesn't rule out Spurs involvement since we can absorb quite a bit of salary.

[Kineto]

With the luxury tax, Ridnour will cost something like $10M to OKC. I would be surprised to see them doing that kind of move that will raise their payroll like that.

Maybe they plan to amnesty Perk ?

[Raven]

Maybe they plan to amnesty Perk ?

even if you amnesty a player, you are still paying him.

[spurraider21]

With the luxury tax, Ridnour will cost something like $10M to OKC. I would be surprised to see them doing that kind of move that will raise their payroll like that.
Time for Pop to press the red button and activate presti's mind control device that was implanted the day the spurs hired him

[SpursSerb]

Maybe they plan to amnesty Perk ?

They said they're not planning to.

[spurraider21]

even if you amnesty a player, you are still paying him.
Yes but not against the cap

[-21-]

Maybe they fear Westbrook won't be back soon. Even so, they could just look for another PG on the cheap rather than pay $10M for Ridnour.

[ducks]

Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @WojYahooNBA

Minnesota, Nikola Pekovic getting closer on a four-year, $50 million contract extension, league sources tell Y! Sports.
10:56 AM - 10 Jul 2013

[ducks]

Praying dog and all... why would OKC do something to help the previous Western Conference winner get better. Minnesota has other worries but the Spurs have to be one of OKC's biggest concerns, especially since the player the Spurs get in the sign and trade is brought in to be one of the chief defenders on their best player.

sam owes the spurs a FAVOR

[Bruno]

Maybe they plan to amnesty Perk ?

It's a possibility even if it's very debatable whether or not it would make them better.

[spurraider21]

I doubt they'd amnesty Perkins with the goal of acquiring ridnour, especially with Jackson's emergence

[Marcus Bryant]

Why would OKC enable Kirilenko to SA?

Still waiting for a report not from McDonald that Pendergraph was signed for 2 years, $4MM.

[K-State Spur]

It's a possibility even if it's very debatable whether or not it would make them better.

Speaking of ways to improve your competitors...

Perk's overpaid, his game doesn't really fit with the rest of their strengths, and there's really no justification for Brooks playing him 25-30 mpg. But, among his few assets, he's traditionally guarded Duncan and Howard well in the post. Hell, he was Howard's personal kryptonite when Dwight was at the top of his game.

Amnestying him would leave OKC to roll with Thabeet, Orton, & Adams as their only legit 5s. Among all their 4/5s, outside of Perk, I would only deem Collison as an above average post defender.

[Texas_Ranger]

Perkins is pretty bad, but the guys that would play instead of him are very bad.

[spurraider21]

Why would OKC enable Kirilenko to SA?
Because we're about to activate presti's mind control device from his spurs days

[K-State Spur]

Why would OKC enable Kirilenko to SA?

Do what you need to in order to improve your own team. OKC did beat us in the last series and finished ahead in the regular season - how much Presti views the Spurs (led by an aging big 3) as a short & long term threat to his own squad - when healthy - is up for debate.

On top of that, he knows that they're a step behind Miami right now - and that was true even before he unloaded Harden. If you have a chance to make your own team better in the short/long term, may not be willing to worry about what it does for the competition.

[MackAttack003]

uh, yeah..tbh.

[coyotes_geek]

Why would OKC enable Kirilenko to SA?

Still waiting for a report not from McDonald that Pendergraph was signed for 2 years, $4MM.

A 2-yr league min deal for Pendergraph would be $2,011,291. We certainly shouldn't put it past McDonald to get confused about $2 mil total vs. $2 mil per year.

[xmas1997]

I think if we got Kirilenko then we would, or insiders would, have heard something by now!

[ducks]

Why would OKC enable Kirilenko to SA?

Still waiting for a report not from McDonald that Pendergraph was signed for 2 years, $4MM.

SAM OWES POP AND RC

[coyotes_geek]

I think if we got Kirilenko then we would, or insiders would, have heard something by now!

Maybe so, but the fact that Minnesota and San Antonio haven't officially signed guys they've already agreed to terms with yet is a pretty strong indicator that they're at least talking about something.

[Raven]

Yes but not against the cap

they forfeited harden because of money not because of cap.

[ducks]

martin no press conf yet either

[spursince#99]

It's still in process hopefully.

[cd98]

Isn't it possible, as the deals are not done, for the terms and dollars of contracts (Manu, Bellineli, Pendergraph) to change from what was originally reported by third party reporters to what will be necessary to sign a guy like Kirilenko? McDonald may be partially true on the Pandergraph contract, but it may not represent the entire deal offered to him (change in years or a few hundred thousand less); same being true on Manu's contract?

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Maybe so, but the fact that Minnesota and San Antonio haven't officially signed guys they've already agreed to terms with yet is a pretty strong indicator that they're at least talking about something.

Spurs are very secretive. We didn't hear anything about the Spurs contacting Belinelli or Pendegraph until they agreed to terms with the Spurs. Here the Spurs were trying to work a sign and trade for awhile to get AK and all we heard is that the Spurs might want to sign him outright.

With the Spurs, you more than likely aren't going to hear about it until its official.

[TheGoldStandard]

Spurs will ask Tony and Tim to take a much bigger pay cut in order to offer Bonner a new contract next year.

[coyotes_geek]

I wonder if Gary Neal and Denver have any mutual interest? That might be a way for the Spurs to work their way into a SA-Minny-Denver-OKC trade. Spurs would need to send out a little over $5 mil in salary to make an above cap trade for AK at a $8 mil salary. I doubt Denver has any interest in Bonner. Mills, Decolo & Neal S&T'd at a $3mil salary would be enough.

Martin, Brewer & Decolo to Minny
Ridnour to OKC
Mills & Neal to Denver
AK to SA

[Robz4000]

Playing Ridnour at the 2 isn't really a "small ball" lineup (which is almost exclusively determined by whether you play a post or a wing at the 4), it's just playing small.

It worked well for them last year with Kmart.

[elec99]

Yeah, you usually dont hear about a signing before it happens with SAS. Hearing about it before it happens usually means it wont happen with us.

Didnt hear about pendergraph, marco, rj, kurt thomas, kawai, etc until it actually happened.

[xmas1997]

If Decolo were going somewhere, I doubt he would be playing in the summer league for the Spurs, same goes for Joseph.

[TheWriter]

If Decolo were going somewhere, I doubt he would be playing in the summer league for the Spurs, same goes for Joseph.

Players have been told boarding team planes to away games that they've been traded. lol How old are you that you honestly think them being on the summer league teams means they can't or won't be traded?

[kobexxx]

Not sure why

[cd98]

Has Bonner become expendable now that the Lakers don't have the twin towers? He used to have value drawing out a big to the three point line while still being able to body the big on defense. Now can't we just get a guy like Korver to play the 4 spot? He still spreads the floor and his defense assignment is most likely around his same size and skill set.

[xmas1997]

Players have been told boarding team planes to away games that they've been traded. lol How old are you that you honestly think them being on the summer league teams means they can't or won't be traded?

What does my age have to do with anything, seriously? I've been going to Spur games since they were the Chaps. What about you?
Yes, I know that has happened before specifically Berry, but that has been the exception, not the rule and generally that player doesn't play before the trade.

[cd98]

What does my age have to do with anything, seriously? I've going to Spur games since they were the Chaps. What about you?
Yes, I know that has happened before specifically Berry, but that has been the exception, not the rule.

If it helps resolve the dispute, at any point, I think the Spurs will trade any minor player to get a deal done that improves the team. De Colo may be on the summer league roster at one moment, and traded the next. I don't think there is any league bar on such action and I'm certain De Colo would be as good as gone if the Spurs can work out a deal for Kirilenko and it required De Colo to be traded.

[coyotes_geek]

What does my age have to do with anything, seriously? I've going to Spur games since they were the Chaps. What about you?
Yes, I know that has happened before specifically Berry, but that has been the exception, not the rule.

Pulling a guy off a plane is rare, but continuing to play guys that are on the trade block isn't. Every team does that.

[LakerHater]

FUCK Flip!

[Robz4000]

Fuk da poleese!!

[bklynspursfan]

Pulling a guy off a plane is rare, but continuing to play guys that are on the trade block isn't. Every team does that.

I think it was Tayshaun Prince who was about to walk onto the courts for warmups before being told he was being traded lol

[spurraider21]

I think it was Tayshaun Prince who was about to walk onto the courts for warmups before being told he was being traded lol
Remember the video of the fan who found out while he was at the game? :lol

[xmas1997]

Man, I would like Kirilenko here as much if not more than any of the rest of you, but I have to agree that it is rare to pull a player who is currently playing, at least it is in the Pop regime and the only time I can remember was Berry. I mean we are talking Spurs here under Pop, not other teams.

[elec99]

You know, MN isnt needed to get this deal done. If everything we hear is true, then SAS is perfectly comfortable with letting some guys go.
What's amazing is that when you trade for a pick, the value placed on a pick varies. It's not like trading a player for a player.

So whats to stop SAS from trading the same players involved in the proposed deal away to another team for a low low pick, or any pick for that matter, assuming the trade partner is up for it. Then boom, there's your cap space to perform an outright signing.

I'm guessing there isnt a team out there willing to trade their pick for (again a guess) bonner, mills, and colo.

[Leetonidas]

Man, I would like Kirilenko here as much if not more than any of the rest of you, but I have to agree that it is rare to pull a player who is currently playing, at least it is in the Pop regime and the only time I can remember was Berry.
what an insightful post! please share more of your extensive knowledge since your contributions to this topic are so pertinent!

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Man, I would like Kirilenko here as much if not more than any of the rest of you, but I have to agree that it is rare to pull a player who is currently playing, at least it is in the Pop regime and the only time I can remember was Berry.

Summer League doesn't start til Friday. And maybe the Spurs want to pull De Colo stateside so he can sign his transfer papers to a new team. Just saying, just playing in the Summer League wouldn't exempt anyone from being traded or even cut from the team.

[TheGoldStandard]

All this could have been avoided by simply getting rid of Matt Bonner before we signed anyone and told Manu this is who we're after you'll just take a little less. Now I fully expect the Spurs to reward Bonner in a loyalty deal next summer. He made 13 over 4 years so we might see a 2 year 13 Million dollar deal.

[Darkwaters]

Remember the video of the fan who found out while he was at the game? :lol

bNb8kqmxO7I

[Leetonidas]

Spurs brass loves Matty Bonner guys, it's pretty obvious they really value the depth he brings to the roster and his ability to stretch the floor. If Diaw would shoot the ball more and not be so passive, Bonner would be much more expendable in the Spurs' eyes imo

[bklynspursfan]

Remember the video of the fan who found out while he was at the game? :lol


bNb8kqmxO7I

That was classic :rollin

[ducks]

Stefan Bondy @NYDNInterNets

There's nothing happening with Kirilenko and the Nets, according to a source.

[Darkwaters]

what an insightful post! please share more of your extensive knowledge since your contributions to this topic are so pertinent!

No need to be a prick. The guy isn't a noob or anything, so no need to run him through the grinder.

[K-State Spur]

It worked well for them last year with Kmart.

Ridnour is a 6'2 PG, Martin is a 6'7 wing - don't see your point

[xmas1997]

Spurs brass loves Matty Bonner guys, it's pretty obvious they really value the depth he brings to the roster and his ability to stretch the floor. If Diaw would shoot the ball more and not be so passive, Bonner would be much more expendable in the Spurs' eyes imo


It's even been rumored he is eventually going to the FO, thus I doubt they get rid of him even though most of us wish they would.

[Leetonidas]

No need to be a prick. The guy isn't a noob or anything, so no need to run him through the grinder.

:cry

i forget how pussy the upstairs forum is sometimes tbh

y'all need to lighten up and realize that i'm like 99% non-serious with most of this shit. dont get so butthurt

[ducks]

cutting booner bringing him upstairs make sence

[Darkwaters]

:cry

i forget how pussy the upstairs forum is sometimes tbh

You're right. Sand in my clit.

Whatever shall I do?

[ducks]

would anyone include green to get her done

[Darkwaters]

y'all need to lighten up and realize that i'm like 99% non-serious with most of this shit. dont get so butthurt

Nobody's butthurt

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Nobody's butthurt

Nowadays, you can assume this is true if you know what I mean!!!

[xmas1997]

No need to be a prick. The guy isn't a noob or anything, so no need to run him through the grinder.

Thanks, but it's ok, I don't suffer from any sort of inferiority complex or anything, and I know BS and joking around when I read it, so no offense was taken.
But thanks again for coming to my defense. It's nice to remember there some decent civil posters on this site. Lol
I call it as I see it, usually. And besides, what goes around, comes around. (See Ice)

[Darkwaters]

would anyone include green to get her done

We would have to get some additional compensation. And that compensation would have to be something that helped us right now (ie, not picks). We're damn close without including Green. So to throw him in "just to make the money work" is totally wasting his immense value at this point. And if we add AK47 but lose Green in the process I'm not so sure we got better, but maybe just are treading water. And Green's contract is considerably cheaper than AK's will be...

[Budkin]

All this could have been avoided by simply getting rid of Matt Bonner before we signed anyone and told Manu this is who we're after you'll just take a little less. Now I fully expect the Spurs to reward Bonner in a loyalty deal next summer. He made 13 over 4 years so we might see a 2 year 13 Million dollar deal.

The Spurs are NEVER getting rid of Bonner as long as Pop is coach. It's just not going to happen.

[coyotes_geek]

would anyone include green to get her done

I wouldn't if that's all we'd be getting. Pop & RC might. The alleged continued interest in keeping Neal doesn't make any sense otherwise.

Now if you add Ridnour to the deal along with AK, I might have to start thinking about it.

[Robz4000]

Ridnour is a 6'2 PG, Martin is a 6'7 wing - don't see your point

He's a scoring PG that can slide right over and assume SG duties. He's pretty close to 200 pounds so while undersized he'd still have decent girth in an SG role. He worked pretty well in a similar position in Minny. While it might not be a perfect fit defensively it adds a solid amount of playmaking missed with Harden's departure. Even if he proves to be too much of a defensive liability to play alongside Westbrick and Durant, he'd still be a huge addition to their bench and could offer more than Martin ever could.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

So in hindsight, is the chances for Andrei to come to SA done now?

[coyotes_geek]

So in hindsight, is the chances for Andrei to come to SA done now?

Maybe. No way to know for certain though until either AK signs elsewhere, or Minnesota signs Martin.

[Darkwaters]

Maybe Andrei will sign with San Antonio for the minimum because he wants to play for the Spurs that badly?!

[xmas1997]

He's a scoring PG that can slide right over and assume SG duties. He's pretty close to 200 pounds so while undersized he'd still have decent girth in an SG role. He worked pretty well in a similar position in Minny. While it might not be a perfect fit defensively it adds a solid amount of playmaking missed with Harden's departure. Even if he proves to be too much of a defensive liability to play alongside Westbrick and Durant, he'd still be a huge addition to their bench and could offer more than Martin ever could.


IMHO it would appear that it is although I am hopeful I am wrong.
Btw, I could have put Leenotinidas (or however you spell it) on my "ignore list" , but sometimes his posts can be very insightful, and those times he doesn't show he's a prick!

[timvp]

So in hindsight, is the chances for Andrei to come to SA done now?

It sounds like there's some wheeling and dealing behind the scenes. The chances of AK47 coming to SA are probably under 10% at this point but there's still some hope.

[xmas1997]

It sounds like there's some wheeling and dealing behind the scenes. The chances of AK47 coming to SA are probably under 10% at this point but there's still some hope.

Glad to read your optimism, timvp, hope that 10% turns to 100%.
Oddly, Minn. has yet to renounce him or sign anyone!

[Darkwaters]

Until Kirilenko signs with someone else there is always a chance. But it's slight at this point.

[K-State Spur]

He's a scoring PG that can slide right over and assume SG duties. He's pretty close to 200 pounds so while undersized he'd still have decent girth in an SG role. He worked pretty well in a similar position in Minny. While it might not be a perfect fit defensively it adds a solid amount of playmaking missed with Harden's departure. Even if he proves to be too much of a defensive liability to play alongside Westbrick and Durant, he'd still be a huge addition to their bench and could offer more than Martin ever could.

First time Ridnour has ever been described as a "huge addition" & the last time he will ever be discussed as an upgrade over Martin as a wing (despite Martin's flaws).

[spurraider21]

26 pages on the original AK thread, 24 on the pendergraph/glorified AK thread, 17 on this one, and pages upon pages of AK talk on the Manu/Belinelli threads. This needs to happen

[dbestpro]

26 pages on the original AK thread, 24 on the pendergraph/glorified AK thread, 17 on this one, and pages upon pages of AK talk on the Manu/Belinelli threads. This needs to happen

It's called hunger.

[Robz4000]

First time Ridnour has ever been described as a "huge addition" & the last time he will ever be discussed as an upgrade over Martin as a wing (despite Martin's flaws).

He isn't a huge addition, neither was Martin. Both are role players but what Ridnour brings to the Thunder is more important than what Martin brought: playmaking. When they gave away Harden OKC lost his ability to create for others. Martin can't do that, while Ridnour can (albeit at a lesser kevel than Harden).

[xmas1997]

And the drama is one of the most intense that I can remember in the Spurs since TD was courted by Orlando.

[Bruno]

It's impossible to know at that stage if Spurs and Minny are still talking about a Kirilenko S&T. They might have definitively end it yesterday or they might still trying with different S&T scenarios.

What is sure is that Minny is working on some trades that will allow them to get both Martin and Brewer and that it isn't easy to do. They postponed Martin signing that should have happened today before 9 am and 6 hours after it they still haven't find a way to get both players. They should be talking to a lot of teams of a lot of different trades.

My guess is that, if Spurs haven't close the door on a Kirilenko S&T, there are still some talks about it. Minny is likely also working on scenario without a Kirilenko S&T like a Ridnour salary dump but, given that they are in a hurry to do a move, they can't just shut down possible options.

[monkeypunk]

It's called hunger.

:toast

[xmas1997]

It's impossible to know at that stage if Spurs and Minny are still talking about a Kirilenko S&T. They might have definitively end it yesterday or they might still trying with different S&T scenarios.

What is sure is that Minny is working on some trades that will allow them to get both Martin and Brewer and that it isn't easy to do. They postponed Martin signing that should have happened today before 9 am and 6 hours after it they still haven't find a way to get both players. They should be talking to a lot of teams of a lot of different trades.

My guess is that, if Spurs haven't close the door on a Kirilenko S&T, there are still some talks about it. Minny is likely also working on scenario without a Kirilenko S&T like a Ridnour salary dump but, given that they are in a hurry to do a move, they can't just shut down possible options.

Plus we haven't heard from the Spurs FO yet concerning their recent acquisitions either, so I guess there is still some hope.

[monkeypunk]

Plus we haven't heard from the Spurs FO yet concerning their recent acquisitions either, so I guess there is still some hope.

Yep, since they haven't announced anything yet, I think all the pieces are still on the board for the Spurs.

[K-State Spur]

he'd still be a huge addition



He isn't a huge addition.

Gotcha.

[Robz4000]

Gotcha.

Well played, sir.

I still stand by Ridnour being a better fit in OKC than Martin ever would.

[Darkwaters]

26 pages on the original AK thread, 24 on the pendergraph/glorified AK thread, 17 on this one, and pages upon pages of AK talk on the Manu/Belinelli threads. This needs to happen

916 people are viewing the Spurs forum alone right now. 331 of those people are viewing this thread at this point in time. Don't fret, you're where it's at.

[Bruno]

Plus we haven't heard from the Spurs FO yet concerning their recent acquisitions either, so I guess there is still some hope.

It would more hint that Spurs are still considering going under the cap and use some cap space. If Spurs options are just either standing pat or doing a 150%+$100K trade, they don't need to wait to officialy sign Ginobili, Splitter, Belinelli and Pendergraph.

[Humberto]

Andrei Kirilenko > Michael Jordan, tbh

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdt5vmTNXy1rsnx72o1_500.jpg