Yahoo: Spurs' talks for Andrei Kirilenko end without deal

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)In latest scenario, Luke Ridnour will end up in Milwaukee, with Wolves signing Corey Brewer and sign-and-trading Kevin Martin from OKC

[Gino-Step]

@ESPNSteinLine: In latest scenario, Luke Ridnour will end up in Milwaukee, with Wolves signing Corey Brewer and sign-and-trading Kevin Martin from OKC

[Robz4000]

Welp

:lmao Milwaukee strikes again

[monkeypunk]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)In latest scenario, Luke Ridnour will end up in Milwaukee, with Wolves signing Corey Brewer and sign-and-trading Kevin Martin from OKC



Fuck Flip in the ass!

[Shifty]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(http://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)In latest scenario, Luke Ridnour will end up in Milwaukee, with Wolves signing Corey Brewer and sign-and-trading Kevin Martin from OKC




What would that mean for the Spurs and their AK47 chances?

[ducks]

'Sota needs to move Ridnour & Bucks, I'm told, all set to take him in. That creates space for Wolves to sign Brewer & do S-and-T for Martin

[SpursSerb]

So what does Oklahoma gets?

[apalisoc_9]

I hope the FO have Plan B. I really don't see anyone in Free agency right now that could be as impactful as AK47 in a 6/7 man role. We could be stuck with 8 guard going into the season and quite frankly that sucks.

I understand there is still the trade deadline, but it be better if can form the team now to give it more time for chemistry.

[fleggy2k2]

:depressed:depressed:depressed

[xmas1997]

At least OKC doesn't get Ridnour!

[coyotes_geek]

So what does Oklahoma gets?

Looks like just a trade exception.

[DPG21920]

What would that mean for the Spurs and their AK47 chances?

The only way would be cap space. Minny would renounce AK to make room, then he could only be signed outright. Spurs would then have to amnesty Bonner, have Belinelli take the room exception, have Pendergrapgh take the league min & probably salary dump 2 low players (Mills/Nando)

[coyotes_geek]

Interesting that the Bucks are getting involved. Theyr'e one of the teams who was allegedly looking at Neal. :stirpot:

[ace3g]

If anything it could come down to Wolves not wanting to trade AK within same conference.

[xmas1997]

Question for anyone: Let's say Kirilenko still wants to come here, and badly, then how much less would he have to take, and for how long could he be signed for?

[Budkin]

@ESPNSteinLine: In latest scenario, Luke Ridnour will end up in Milwaukee, with Wolves signing Corey Brewer and sign-and-trading Kevin Martin from OKC

I'm confused, how does this affect our chances on AK?

[ducks]

Marc Stein@ESPNSteinLine .


So both Corey Brewer and Kevin Martin, by day's end, on course to be Wolves. Latest scenario calls for Bucks to take on Ridnour to help MIN

[DPG21920]

I'm confused, how does this affect our chances on AK?


The only way would be cap space. Minny would renounce AK to make room, then he could only be signed outright. Spurs would then have to amnesty Bonner, have Belinelli take the room exception, have Pendergrapgh take the league min & probably salary dump 2 low players (Mills/Nando)

[ducks]

BUCKS TAKE NEAL
NEAL GO TO BUCKS ! SPURS GET AK

[cd98]

Sounds like Minn can get enough space to sign Brewer just by trading Ridnour, and it looks like Milwaukee is going to let that happen. So Kirilenko is a free agent.

[DPG21920]

I wonder what Minny has to give up to get Bucks to take Rid off their hands?

[ace3g]

Also Cavs beat writer:


Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO
(http://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO)Hearing that Cavs think Andrew Bynum wants to play in Dallas. But nothing official from any parties involved.


Possibly AKs agent got wind of this and now are waiting to see if Cavs are interested.

[spurraider21]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[DPG21920]

But Bruno makes a fine point: if cap space is not in the plan, why on Earth have the Spurs FAs not signed? Unless they have and it's not reported yet...

[ducks]

Marc Stein‏@ESPNSteinLine2m
RT @TicalDeez: @ESPNSteinLine What or who does OKC get in return? (THUNDER PARTICIPATING IN MARTIN-TO-SOTA TO CREATE A TRADE EXCEPTION)

[Bruno]

Sadly the deal with Ridnour going to bucks sounds good and would leave Spurs out of a potential Kirilenko S&T.

Signing Kirilenko through cap space should be way more unlikely mostly because it requires that McDonald has screw up his report about Pendergraph contract.

[Darkwaters]

But Bruno makes a fine point: if cap space is not in the plan, why on Earth have the Spurs FAs not signed? Unless they have and it's not reported yet...

But it's decorum to hold a press conference fairly quickly and introduce the new players. Why would the Spurs delay that?

[cd98]

And McDonald report on salary is in line with what Pendergraph would ask for.

[ducks]

But Bruno makes a fine point: if cap space is not in the plan, why on Earth have the Spurs FAs not signed? Unless they have and it's not reported yet...

all fas could have been approached if spurs could land ak47 with sign and trade then this is what they make if not then this is what you make if we can sign him outright

[Darkwaters]

Sadly the deal with Ridnour going to bucks sounds good and would leave Spurs out of a potential Kirilenko S&T.

Signing Kirilenko through cap space should be way more unlikely mostly because it requires that McDonald has screw up his report about Pendergraph contract.

Personally I don't think that's unlikely at all.

But I'm not realistically holding out hope for that. More just sniping at McDonald and yearning for Ludden.

[coyotes_geek]

@ESPNSteinLine: In latest scenario, Luke Ridnour will end up in Milwaukee, with Wolves signing Corey Brewer and sign-and-trading Kevin Martin from OKC

Actually, if they're going to get Martin via S&T they can just stay over the cap and sign Brewer via the MLE while retaining rights to Kirilenko. Spurs might not need to find a way to work their way into the Martin/Brewer deal afterall.

[spursfan4ever]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that asshole Cuban block us from getting AK by submitting an offer just to prevent us getting him like the Corey Brewer situation a few years back.

[coyotes_geek]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that asshole Cuban block us from getting AK by submitting an offer just to prevent us getting him like the Corey Brewer situation a few years back.

Not happening. They'd have to pull their offer to Bynum to make one to AK.

[xmas1997]

Actually, if they're going to get Martin via S&T they can just stay over the cap and sign Brewer via the MLE while retaining rights to Kirilenko. Spurs might not need to find a way to work their way into the Martin/Brewer deal afterall.


Sorry for being a bit dense here, but how do you figure this???

[DPG21920]

The thing about Pendrgraphs number is if Mac was right, why would he not be signed already?

[spurraider21]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that asshole Cuban block us from getting AK by submitting an offer just to prevent us getting him like the Corey Brewer situation a few years back.
Germans hate Soviets. Not happening.

[TheGoldStandard]

The thing about Pendrgraphs number is if Mac was right, why would he not be signed already?

Maybe they're trying to get Neal to agree to a certain amount to come back and need a little flexibility.

[DPG21920]

They have Neal's bird rights, they can sign him for whatever.

[ducks]

those tweats updates have nothing to do with ak47 yet.....

GET HER DONE !

[timvp]

Yeah, the Spurs would start announcing signings by now unless something is holding it up.

Man, being a Spurs fan is getting more and more difficult in the summer because the Express-News has basically given up on reporting anything substantial. :lol

[Texas_Ranger]

nothing official yet, something is cooking. :stirpot:

[ace3g]

Yeah, the Spurs would start announcing signings by now unless something is holding it up.

Man, being a Spurs fan is getting more and more difficult in the summer because the Express-News has basically given up on reporting anything substantial. :lol

I know I'm jealous of other team's beat writers, lol, there are times when they actually break team signings before Woj does.

The only good thing, we have Ludden at Yahoo, so we get those awesome articles every now and then.

[coyotes_geek]

Sorry for being a bit dense here, but how do you figure this???

If they don't renounce anybody, they're over the cap. Martin's 1st year is going to be right at $7 mil. Taking that $7 mil and backing it out of the 150%+$100k formula, they would need to send out $4.6mil in salary. Ridnour makes $4.32. So they send Ridnour plus some other low dollar scrub to Milwaukee and get Martin from OKC. Legal trade for an over the cap team.

Since they're over the cap, they have the MLE which they can use on Brewer. Since they didn't have to renounce AK to accomplish any of this, they would still be able to S&T him.

[cd98]

Yeah, the Spurs would start announcing signings by now unless something is holding it up.

Man, being a Spurs fan is getting more and more difficult in the summer because the Express-News has basically given up on reporting anything substantial. :lol


But isn't the national media interested in finding out if the Spurs can get Kirilenko through a sign and trade or dump players to sign him in free agency?

[objective]

I find it amusing how people are twisting events as hard as they can like logic pretzels to justify and excuse the Spurs failure here.

The notion that the Spurs could have had capspace but checked with AK and his agent and it was just too much so the Spurs had to move on and lock up Pendergraph and Belinelli and keep Bonner's lusciously valuable expiring . . . :lol

The S&T talks with the Wolves don't collapse on Flip if AK was asking for too much. They just don't. This means that AK had already agreed to a ballpark figure. Something they could have signed outright had they not tried to so hard to lock everything up before the moratorium was up.

This is on the Spurs.

If they don't get AK somehow, it is a failure. A big one. But if a miracle happens, it is a huge triumph.

[Bruno]

If Minny can salary dump Ridnour to Milwaukee they have the option to just sign both Brewer and Martin with cap space. For them the edge would be that they won't give a TE to OKC and that they will have the room exception available.

If they get Martin through a S&T including Ridnour and then sign Brewer with the MLE, they will have only the LLE left but they will still have Kirilenko Bird rights. A motivation for doing that would be to do a S&T with Kirilenko. WOJ reported that Minny liked some of Spurs package but weren't ready to take back the salaries. With Ridnour dumped, they might be able to do so.

[lurker23]

If they don't renounce anybody, they're over the cap. Martin's 1st year is going to be right at $7 mil. Taking that $7 mil and backing it out of the 150%+$100k formula, they would need to send out $4.6mil in salary. Ridnour makes $4.32. So they send Ridnour plus some other low dollar scrub to Milwaukee and get Martin from OKC. Legal trade for an over the cap team.

Since they're over the cap, they have the MLE which they can use on Brewer. Since they didn't have to renounce AK to accomplish any of this, they would still be able to S&T him.

Sign-and-trades always confuse me a bit...for the Spurs to acquire AK47 via sign-and-trade, would they need to match salaries?

[TheGoldStandard]

I find it amusing how people are twisting events as hard as they can like logic pretzels to justify and excuse the Spurs failure here.

The notion that the Spurs could have had capspace but checked with AK and his agent and it was just too much so the Spurs had to move on and lock up Pendergraph and Belinelli and keep Bonner's lusciously valuable expiring . . . :lol

The S&T talks with the Wolves don't collapse on Flip if AK was asking for too much. They just don't. This means that AK had already agreed to a ballpark figure. Something they could have signed outright had they not tried to so hard to lock everything up before the moratorium was up.

This is on the Spurs.

If they don't get AK somehow, it is a failure. A big one. But if a miracle happens, it is a huge triumph.

What I find silly is that we spend money on players that won't get significant playoff time. Pendergraph won't get playoff minutes unless they're up by 20. Bonner doesn't play a significant role in the playoffs, De Colo/Mills didn't even sniff the floor. Marco is the only thing that made sense as long as Neal doesn't return. Should have had enough to bring in a guy like AK47

[jimo2305]

this is why we can't have nice things :(

[ace3g]

Marc J. Spears @SpearsNBAYahoo
(http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo)Deal is done sending ex-Nuggets guard Corey Brewer to Minnesota, source tells Y! Sports

[Floyd Pacquiao]

with no official announcements the Spurs are still wheeling and dealing tbh.

[szkorhetz]

I am pretty sure AK will be a Spur at the end of the day.

[ducks]

sign trade or what

[Texas_Ranger]

So what is in the Spurs package? Probably a 1st and a 2nd rounder, but what players. I guess Bonner and De Colo/Joseph/Mills.

[objective]

Sign-and-trades always confuse me a bit...for the Spurs to acquire AK47 via sign-and-trade, would they need to match salaries?

I think the rule is that the Spurs can take back 150% + 100k. So if the Spurs send out 5 million they can take back 7.6, though Bruno would know more.

[Bruno]

I think the rule is that the Spurs can take back 150% + 100k. So if the Spurs send out 5 million they can take back 7.6, though Bruno would know more.

Yep, that's that for S&T not involving cap space which is the case here.

[Texas_Ranger]

I think the rule is that the Spurs can take back 150% + 100k. So if the Spurs send out 5 million they can take back 7.6, though Bruno would know more.

so that would make Bonner and one of the unproven guard. I could live with that.

[timvp]

If they get Martin through a S&T including Ridnour and then sign Brewer with the MLE, they will have only the LLE left but they will still have Kirilenko Bird rights. A motivation for doing that would be to do a S&T with Kirilenko. WOJ reported that Minny liked some of Spurs package but weren't ready to take back the salaries. With Ridnour dumped, they might be able to do so.

I wonder if Bonner, Mills and De Colo plus a first rounder would be appetizing enough...

[TheGoldStandard]

this is why we can't have nice things :(

http://i43.tinypic.com/90vfyp.jpg
This is why

[coyotes_geek]

Sign-and-trades always confuse me a bit...for the Spurs to acquire AK47 via sign-and-trade, would they need to match salaries?

Depends whether the trade would leave them over the cap or not. If over, yes they would need to match. That same 150%+$100k scenario would still apply, so assuming AK would want $8mil next year, the Spurs would need to send out $5.27mil in salary. If under, no need to match.

[timvp]

Marc J. Spears @SpearsNBAYahoo
(http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo)Deal is done sending ex-Nuggets guard Corey Brewer to Minnesota, source tells Y! Sports




Deal as in contract or deal as in trade?

[Texas_Ranger]

would the Spurs be willing to give them 2 1st rounders?

[SpursSerb]

would the Spurs be willing to give them 2 1st rounders?

I hope not.

[ace3g]

Deal as in contract or deal as in trade?

Not sure, figured he was typing the rest of the tweet up with the details, lol

[lurker23]

I think the rule is that the Spurs can take back 150% + 100k. So if the Spurs send out 5 million they can take back 7.6, though Bruno would know more.


Yep, that's that for S&T not involving cap space which is the case here.

Thanks guys. Given rumored Kirilenko salaries, seems that something like Bonner + De Colo (+picks) would be enough.

[ducks]

Chris Sheridan@sheridanhoops .


#NBA news: #Timberwolves give Pekovic $50 Mill and sign Corey Brewer; #Lakers bring back Jordan Farmar at discount: www.sheridanhoops.com

[spurraider21]

http://i43.tinypic.com/90vfyp.jpg
This is why
:rollin

[coyotes_geek]

I wonder if Bonner, Mills and De Colo plus a first rounder would be appetizing enough...

If not, would Green, Mills & De Colo?

Would the Spurs still be interested at that point?

[Ron Swanson]

would the Spurs be willing to give them 2 1st rounders?


I hope not. If we're trying to reload after 2014-15, we may need that 1st rounder.

[Texas_Ranger]

I hope not.

the picks would be most likely from pick 25-30. The problem is that they sometimes get a quality player with that low of a pick.

[coyotes_geek]

would the Spurs be willing to give them 2 1st rounders?

Better not. We're on a 2 year plan with a pretty high likelihood that after that period our 1st round picks will be much, much higher than we're accustomed to.

[TheGoldStandard]

I hope not. If we're trying to reload after 2014-15, we may need that 1st rounder.

I can see 1 first rounder but not 2... Shit the way it looks they'd probably give up Green before they ever deal Bonner.

[ducks]

spurs need to win now!

[SpursSerb]

I would give 2 first round,but for Derrick Williams.

[lurker23]

If not, would Green, Mills & De Colo?

Would the Spurs still be interested at that point?

I personally think adding Green would be a deal-breaker for the Spurs. That said, if the Spurs give up 2 or 3 guards in the trade, it would make the "Neal back to SA" rumors make more sense.

[TheGoldStandard]

I would give 2 first round,but for Derrick Williams.
In a heart beat yes!

[ducks]

they would trade booner to get ak47 if they had to

[Seventyniner]

Chris Sheridan@sheridanhoops .


#NBA news: #Timberwolves give Pekovic $50 Mill and sign Corey Brewer; #Lakers bring back Jordan Farmar at discount: www.sheridanhoops.com

I think the only way Minnesota can sign Brewer outright and still get Martin is to stay over the cap and S&T for Martin (Brewer gets MLE). I don't think they have enough cap space to sign both outright without a salary dump, and the Brewer signing was announced.

[cd98]

Why would the Spurs give up first rounders this year or the next when they know they will be rebuilding in two years and will need those draft picks? I understand one last charge for a title, but is Kirilenko the piece to put us over the top? Not sure he's worth giving up more than what we are offering without the draft picks. Second rounders, maybe, but the next draft is supposed to be deep.

[Ron Swanson]

I can see 1 first rounder but not 2... Shit the way it looks they'd probably give up Green before they ever deal Bonner.

Right. I should have clarified. 1 would be ok, imo. 2 is too much.

Then again, I'm not an NBA GM.

[timvp]

Worst case in all of this is if the Spurs miss out on AK47 while OKC gets a trade exception for Martin.

[Bruno]

I wonder if Bonner, Mills and De Colo plus a first rounder would be appetizing enough...

It should be even more if Spurs send some cash to pay Bonner's salary.

[Seventyniner]

Also, if the Wolves sign Pekovic now, they're definitely staying over the cap because Pek's first-year salary will be well above his cap hold. Thus they could keep AK's Bird rights and the S&T door is still open.

[SpursSerb]

In a heart beat yes!

Somethings happening behind closed doors,this could be it.One can only hope.:rolleyes

[Texas_Ranger]

Misko Raznatovic, agent for Nikola Pekovic, denied with a Twitter to Sportando that the big man is close to sign a four-year, $50M deal with the Timberwolves

[dallasmaverickslose]

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[Drom John]

Why would the Spurs give up first rounders this year or the next when they know they will be rebuilding in two years and will need those draft picks? I understand one last charge for a title, but is Kirilenko the piece to put us over the top? Not sure he's worth giving up more than what we are offering without the draft picks. Second rounders, maybe, but the next draft is supposed to be deep.

1) Going for it now trumps having worse years later.
2) Not having a 1st rounder the first year after Duncan/Ginobili means fewer wins and a better 1st rounder the following year.

[K-State Spur]

Worst case in all of this is if the Spurs miss out on AK47 while OKC gets a trade exception for Martin.

It creates the potential for OKC to do something more dramatic than what they're looking at. But using the TE would likely push them into tax territory - which they've treated as a hard cap thus far in the Presti era.

I suppose they could use the TE to shore up the 2 guard, then amnesty Perk to get back under the tax - but then a lack of physical bigs would instantly become a weakness for them.

[Leetonidas]

God dammit this shit needs to be resolved already. I come back a couple hours later and we still know nothing...its getting late in the day. Spurs have to be working something out

[TD 21]

If that's on the table (at the very least, that's got to be very close to what the Spurs offered), if the Wolves are intelligent, they take that package. Sure, they don't need any of those three and none would be in their rotation, but they're all on expiring contracts, so they could either keep some or all for depth purposes or re-route them, as none would likely be difficult to move.

In the end, they'd walk away with a 1st for their troubles and despite it coming from the Spurs, potentially a solid one, if it's next year's, because of how deep the draft is supposed to be, or in '16, when Duncan and Ginobili will likely have been retired for a year and the Spurs figure to be mired in mediocrity.

Helping an elite team get better should be of no concern to them, as they have no chance at being on the Spurs level (health aside, of course) in the next 2 seasons either way.

[SpursSerb]

No deal for any Spurs player has been confirmed.It could be we have much better cap situation than we all presume.

[cd98]

If that's on the table, if the Wolves are intelligent, they take that package. Sure, they don't need any of those three and none would be in their rotation, but they could either keep some or all for depth purposes or re-route them, as none would likely be difficult to move.

In the end, they'd walk away with a 1st for their troubles and despite it coming from the Spurs, potentially a solid one, if it's next year's, because of how deep the draft is supposed to be, or in '16, when Duncan and Ginobili will likely have been retired for a year and the Spurs figure to be mired in mediocrity.

Helping an elite team get better should be of no concern to them, as they have no chance at being on the Spurs level (health aside, of course) in the next 2 seasons either way.

I don't think they see it that way. I think they blame their inability to compete for a playoff slot and more to the injuries they had last year (Love and Pekovic, etc.). They think their roster is right there to contend. That's why they made a move for Martin and Brewer. Those are not rebuild additions. That said, I don't think they are winning the title in the next two years, but they want to be a contender.

[TD 21]

I don't think they see it that way. I think they blame their inability to compete for a playoff slot and more to the injuries they had last year (Love and Pekovic, etc.). They think their roster is right there to contend. That's why they made a move for Martin and Brewer. Those are not rebuild additions. That said, I don't think they are winning the title in the next two years, but they want to be a contender.

Yeah, contend for a playoff spot, not the championship. No way they're that delusional.

I realize that there's a pretty good chance these two could meet in the 1st round next season, but as I said, either way, so long as the Spurs are mostly or even reasonably healthy, they'd have zero chance at beating them. They'd be stupid to not take the pick.

[DesignatedT]

So if Ridnour does get shipped to Milwaukee does that pretty much end all possibility of the Spurs getting AK?

[cd98]

Yeah, contend for a playoff spot, not the championship. No way they're that delusional.

I realize that there's a pretty good chance these two could meet in the 1st round next season, but as I said, either way, so long as the Spurs are mostly or even reasonably healthy, they'd have zero chance at beating them. They'd be stupid to not take the pick.


While they may have trepedations about helping a competitor, they obviously think Brewer is better or of better value than Kirilenko as they have chosen him over Kirilenko. I do think the draft pick would be enticing for many reasons. I'd just hate to give it up for a 32 year old Kirilenko who did have injury issues last year. I think he'd be great for the system, but I'm not sure he makes us better than Miami (although he might).

[cheguevara]

Andrei sucks

move on

[Leetonidas]

Why would the Spurs give up first rounders this year or the next when they know they will be rebuilding in two years and will need those draft picks? I understand one last charge for a title, but is Kirilenko the piece to put us over the top? Not sure he's worth giving up more than what we are offering without the draft picks. Second rounders, maybe, but the next draft is supposed to be deep.

Spurs won't have a team anywhere near as good as they have now for a long time, they need to do what they can to win now before Duncan retires.

[DPG21920]

So if Ridnour does get shipped to Milwaukee does that pretty much end all possibility of the Spurs getting AK?

The only thing that formally ends it is if Beli/Pend are signed with MLE and AK is renounced.

[Hoops Czar]

The Spurs need to find a third team to dump some salary, then give Minny a draft pick. That should do it.

[Kindergarten Cop]

The only thing that formally ends it is if Beli/Pend are signed with MLE and AK is renounced.

... or AK agreeing to terms with another team. :spin

But that's not happening, considering that he's going to be a Spur by the end of the day. :hat

[DesignatedT]

The only thing that formally ends it is if Beli/Pend are signed with MLE and AK is renounced.

So if Beli and Pend are signed with the MLE, the Spurs can't do a S&T with Minny anymore?

[monkeypunk]

... or AK agreeing to terms with another team. :spin

But that's not happening, considering that he's going to be a Spur by the end of the day. :hat

Work, praying-dog.jpg, work, gotdamnit!

[spurraider21]

So if Beli and Pend are signed with the MLE, the Spurs can't do a S&T with Minny anymore?
He said AND. If we use MLE then we must sign and trade for him, which becomes impossible once he is renounced

[elec99]

http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/minnesota-timberwolves-refuse-to-trade-andrei-kirilenko-to-san-antonio-spurs/

Minnesota Timberwolves Refuse to Trade Andrei Kirilenko to San Antonio Spurs

Often times, teams are more than willing to help a former player work out a sign and trade deal with an opposing team as it’s better to get some type of asset(s) than to leave empty handed.

That’s not a philosophy the Minnesota Timberwolves are employing when it comes to a sign and trade deal with Andrei Kirilenko – at least not right now.

Reports surfaced last night that the San Antonio Spurs had contacted the Wolves in an attempt to sign and trade for the Russian born small forward, who they’ve hand a long standing interest in. Unable to sign him outright, the Spurs were hopeful they could engage the T’Wolves in a deal but they apparently had no interest in helping the Spurs get better or assisting a Western Conference rival.

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Spurs seriously considered a multiyear offer for Kirilenko, but Minnesota general manager Flip Saunders has shown little, if any, inclination to assist him in securing a significant financial contract elsewhere, sources said.

[spurraider21]

Work, praying-dog.jpg, work, gotdamnit!
Had anyone actually posted the jpg?

[TD 21]

While they may have trepedations about helping a competitor, they obviously think Brewer is better or of better value than Kirilenko as they have chosen him over Kirilenko. I do think the draft pick would be enticing for many reasons. I'd just hate to give it up for a 32 year old Kirilenko who did have injury issues last year. I think he'd be great for the system, but I'm not sure he makes us better than Miami (although he might).

Obviously, I wouldn't want to give it up, but that's the only shot they'd have and even though I'm also not 100% convinced he would make the Spurs markedly better either, it's still a no brainer for the Spurs, because there's no downside. He definitely wouldn't make them markedly worse, so they'd either be about the same or better.

And with two shots left, they need to be going for it, as opposed to hoping for it.


It's funny how everyone is always determined to not help the Spurs get better (even though the vast majority haven't thought they were contenders going into a season since '07-08), yet they've never had a problem consistently helping the Lakers.

[DesignatedT]

He said AND. If we use MLE then we must sign and trade for him, which becomes impossible once he is renounced

Ahh missed that. Thanks.

[objective]

So if Beli and Pend are signed with the MLE, the Spurs can't do a S&T with Minny anymore?

the Spurs can do a S&T as long as the Wolves don't renounce Kirilenko.

The problem is that the Spurs won't be able to sign Kirilenko with capspace or MLE or anything if they sign B and P first. If they amnesty Bonner and dump De Colo, P & B guarantee they have less space than than teams that use the MLE. If they keep Bonner and sign P, then they don't get the MLE and have to use the room exception on Belinelli.

[monkeypunk]

Had anyone actually posted the jpg?

It's funnier without posting the actual pic, imo.

[DesignatedT]

the Spurs can do a S&T as long as the Wolves don't renounce Kirilenko.

The problem is that the Spurs won't be able to sign Kirilenko with capspace or MLE or anything if they sign B and P first. If they amnesty Bonner and dump De Colo, P & B guarantee they have less space than than teams that use the MLE. If they keep Bonner and sign P, then they don't get the MLE and have to use the room exception on Belinelli.

If the Spurs amnesty Bonner, trade De Colo and/or Mills and create cap space. They lose their MLE correct? At that point the only feasible option would be to sign Beli with the room exception and AK and Pend with cap space?

[cd98]

Flip must be taking a what's in it for me approach to sign and trade with Spurs. Or maybe he's trying to avoid pissing off the rest of the league as they give up Kirilenko for spare parts on a team that was 28 seconds away from winning the title.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs amnesty Bonner, trade De Colo and/or Mills and create cap space. They lose their MLE correct? At that point the only feasible option would be to sign Beli with the room exception and AK and Pend with cap space?

More or less although Pend would signed with a league min contract

[DesignatedT]

More or less although Pend would signed with a league min contract

Cool. Thanks.

[coyotes_geek]

Flip must be taking a what's in it for me approach to sign and trade with Spurs. Or maybe he's trying to avoid pissing off the rest of the league as they give up Kirilenko for spare parts on a team that was 28 seconds away from winning the title.

:lmao

Ya think? Everybody involved is taking the what's in it for me approach. Flip, AK, RC, everyone.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/minnesota-timberwolves-refuse-to-trade-andrei-kirilenko-to-san-antonio-spurs/

Minnesota Timberwolves Refuse to Trade Andrei Kirilenko to San Antonio Spurs

Often times, teams are more than willing to help a former player work out a sign and trade deal with an opposing team as it’s better to get some type of asset(s) than to leave empty handed.

That’s not a philosophy the Minnesota Timberwolves are employing when it comes to a sign and trade deal with Andrei Kirilenko – at least not right now.

Reports surfaced last night that the San Antonio Spurs had contacted the Wolves in an attempt to sign and trade for the Russian born small forward, who they’ve hand a long standing interest in. Unable to sign him outright, the Spurs were hopeful they could engage the T’Wolves in a deal but they apparently had no interest in helping the Spurs get better or assisting a Western Conference rival.

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Spurs seriously considered a multiyear offer for Kirilenko, but Minnesota general manager Flip Saunders has shown little, if any, inclination to assist him in securing a significant financial contract elsewhere, sources said.

This just sounds like negotiating posturing. If Saunders is indeed taking the bolded tact that just sounds like an excellent way to insure that AK leaves and they get nothing.

[objective]

If the Spurs amnesty Bonner, trade De Colo and/or Mills and create cap space. They lose their MLE correct? At that point the only feasible option would be to sign Beli with the room exception and AK and Pend with cap space?

yes . . . IF Beli is cheap enough for the room exception. Reports have been for slightly more than the room. And Pendergraph is supposed to be 2 million.

That would leave only about 5 million at best either way for Kirlilenko if my math is close.

[dbestpro]

Flip still mad at Pop for getting him kicked out of Minnesatoa the first time. Couldn't get past Pop in the playoffs.

[ducks]

http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/minnesota-timberwolves-refuse-to-trade-andrei-kirilenko-to-san-antonio-spurs/

Minnesota Timberwolves Refuse to Trade Andrei Kirilenko to San Antonio Spurs

Often times, teams are more than willing to help a former player work out a sign and trade deal with an opposing team as it’s better to get some type of asset(s) than to leave empty handed.

That’s not a philosophy the Minnesota Timberwolves are employing when it comes to a sign and trade deal with Andrei Kirilenko – at least not right now.

Reports surfaced last night that the San Antonio Spurs had contacted the Wolves in an attempt to sign and trade for the Russian born small forward, who they’ve hand a long standing interest in. Unable to sign him outright, the Spurs were hopeful they could engage the T’Wolves in a deal but they apparently had no interest in helping the Spurs get better or assisting a Western Conference rival.

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Spurs seriously considered a multiyear offer for Kirilenko, but Minnesota general manager Flip Saunders has shown little, if any, inclination to assist him in securing a significant financial contract elsewhere, sources said.

Jul 10th, 2013 at 11:27 am

[Texas_Ranger]

so the wolves gonna let Andrei walk. Good for them

[cd98]

:lmao

Ya think? Everybody involved is taking the what's in it for me approach. Flip, AK, RC, everyone.

Per the twitter link above it said that teams will often accommdate a player's wish for a sign and trade. I'm referring to that not being enough to work with the Spurs on the piss poor package of Bonner, Mills, and De Colo. Obviously they need something back to motivate them. But I think they want something back that hurts the Spurs too much to give up, be it a first round draft pick or a player like Green.

[spursince#99]

Flip must be taking a what's in it for me approach to sign and trade with Spurs. Or maybe he's trying to avoid pissing off the rest of the league as they give up Kirilenko for spare parts on a team that was 28 seconds away from winning the title.

That would be such bullshit if true. :lol

[objective]

the window to amnesty Bonner is 7 days.

I don't think Bonner is worried.

[xmas1997]

Spurs still haven't announced their signings yet! What gives?

[DesignatedT]

I guess at this point lets just hope the Spurs continue to wait to announce the Beli and Pend signings. Probably means they are still looking at possible options.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Spurs still haven't announced their signings yet! What gives?

Last year all them were pretty much officially announce by early afternoon, which is usually the case with the Spurs. So yeah, this isn't Spurs like.

[cd98]

That would be such bullshit if true. :lol

The T'Wolves are largely responsible for that last Celtic title. A lot of people thought that Garnett trade had more to do with helping out the Celtics then really getting enough value in return.

[objective]

Also, Minnesota cleaned house in the front office. Nobody there now feels like they owe Kirilenko a damn thing. Combine that with Flip generally being a failure at his jobs in the past . . . nothing stupid by Flip would surprise me.

[UZER]

The T'Wolves are largely responsible for that last Celtic title. A lot of people thought that Garnett trade had more to do with helping out the Celtics then really getting enough value in return.

Which is why I say under handed deals are done wirh big markets that small markets cant afford to do.

[ducks]

Per the twitter link above it said that teams will often accommdate a player's wish for a sign and trade. I'm referring to that not being enough to work with the Spurs on the piss poor package of Bonner, Mills, and De Colo. Obviously they need something back to motivate them. But I think they want something back that hurts the Spurs too much to give up, be it a first round draft pick or a player like Green.yeah blame the front office
if they included greeen or first round picks people would be pissed if no deal people will be pissed

[exstatic]

The T'Wolves are largely responsible for that last Celtic title. A lot of people thought that Garnett trade had more to do with helping out the Celtics then really getting enough value in return.

That was crap because McHale, a former Celtic, sold him for pennies on the dollar to his former team. Flip has no such connection here.

[Ocotillo]

Almost time for the local TV news and nothing to report regarding signings. :lol

[ducks]

22 pages
oh no the deal will not happen now
we should stop posting LOL

[spursince#99]

The absence of recognition for our previous signings is quite bizarre.

[apalisoc_9]

I'll close my computer now. I still have a few things i need to do anyway. Offseason making me so unproductive:lol..

[ducks]

well with ak47 things have to get done soon

[Leetonidas]

:pctoss

[heyheymymy]

The absence of recognition for our previous signings is quite bizarre.

http://t.qkme.me/3tgcs8.jpg

[monkeypunk]

http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/minnesota-timberwolves-refuse-to-trade-andrei-kirilenko-to-san-antonio-spurs/

Minnesota Timberwolves Refuse to Trade Andrei Kirilenko to San Antonio Spurs

Often times, teams are more than willing to help a former player work out a sign and trade deal with an opposing team as it’s better to get some type of asset(s) than to leave empty handed.

That’s not a philosophy the Minnesota Timberwolves are employing when it comes to a sign and trade deal with Andrei Kirilenko – at least not right now.

Reports surfaced last night that the San Antonio Spurs had contacted the Wolves in an attempt to sign and trade for the Russian born small forward, who they’ve hand a long standing interest in. Unable to sign him outright, the Spurs were hopeful they could engage the T’Wolves in a deal but they apparently had no interest in helping the Spurs get better or assisting a Western Conference rival.

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Spurs seriously considered a multiyear offer for Kirilenko, but Minnesota general manager Flip Saunders has shown little, if any, inclination to assist him in securing a significant financial contract elsewhere, sources said.

I don't know what kind of rival we are, when they may not even make the playoffs. By the time their team gels enough to contend (if they ever do), we'll be post td and mg and working to remain relevant ourselves.

Not sure that is the real impetus for them declining the s&t.

[ducks]

Marc Stein‏@ESPNSteinLine32m
To get full $12M in Year 1 from Cavs, Bynum would have to hit loads of contract benchmarks. And Year 2, of course, would be at Cavs' option

ak47 could go to cavs if he wants money

[xmas1997]

I'll close my computer now. I still have a few things i need to do anyway. Offseason making me so unproductive:lol..


Yeah, I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been on this site all day to see if we get AK47 and so far nothing. And no mention of the other signings either, so I wonder what's up!

[cd98]

That was crap because McHale, a former Celtic, sold him for pennies on the dollar to his former team. Flip has no such connection here.

Right. But the reporters, talking heads, other teams, etc. give teams hell when they sell out key players to another team for pittance. See Grizzlies Gasol trade when it went down. Same with the Garnett trade. Thanks to Kahn, the T'Wolves' front office has taken a hit on its reputation, so I'm sure Flip is trying to be a bit more hard nosed.

[coyotes_geek]

By my estimate, there's a 100% chance that OKC is gumming up the works here. Presti doesn't want to S&T Martin to Minnesota if that's going to result in AK getting S&T'd to San Antonio. If I'm Presti, right now I'm telling Flip that I'm not going to be interested in an S&T until he's renounced AK. That puts Flip and the Spurs into the position of having to figure out an S&T deal that puts Minnesota under the cap by enough to sign Martin with capspace.

[ducks]

fuck it send thunder a pick and get her done

[ducks]

payback would be to take kevin love when he is a fa
be funnest if they get ak47 and love when he is a fa

[gameFACE]

So Spurstalk wants to pay AK $7-10M to come off the bench? That's a horrible idea.

And please don't come back with Manu salary comparisons. Manu earned the $14M/per year contract he had, as well as the $7M/per year contract he just agreed to. Three NBA titles and a decade of excellence command some financial respect.

I'm not sure how else AK would fit in. Kawhi is going to start. A starting lineup of Parker, Leonard, AK, Duncan and Splitter would be awkward. You start out real big then all of a sudden your second unit is real small.

I'd still like to know who the Spurs were packaging. Maybe Green.

[Seventyniner]

By my estimate, there's a 100% chance that OKC is gumming up the works here. Presti doesn't want to S&T Martin to Minnesota if that's going to result in AK getting S&T'd to San Antonio. If I'm Presti, right now I'm telling Flip that I'm not going to be interested in an S&T until he's renounced AK. That puts Flip and the Spurs into the position of having to figure out an S&T deal that puts Minnesota under the cap by enough to sign Martin with capspace.

What if the Wolves play hardball and say that the Thunder have until X date to accept or reject the Martin S&T? I've never heard of a deal being contingent on something like renouncing a FA before.

[RD2191]

Wolves can suck a dick, hope all their players blow their ACL's.

[spurraider21]

I'm not sure how else AK would fit in. Kawhi is going to start. A starting lineup of Parker, Leonard, AK, Duncan and Splitter would be awkward. You start out real big then all of a sudden your second unit is real small.

I'd still like to know who the Spurs were packaging. Maybe Green.
No chance Green is in the deal. If he was, Minnesota would take that without flinching for a second. Remember, Kirilenko is going to walk anyway. If there was a player like Green in the deal, its as if they're getting him for free, and he's a pretty darn good player.

[yavozerb]

All this over AK at age 32. If he get signed at a REASONABLE price great, if not no big deal..Damn, its funny how AK is ok 8+ mil but Tiago and Manu are overpaid. Everybody needs to take a step back and catch your breath. :lol

[TXstbobcat]

Wolves can suck a dick, hope all their players blow their ACL's.

with all the wolves injury problems the last 2 years, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

[coyotes_geek]

What if the Wolves play hardball and say that the Thunder have until X date to accept or reject the Martin S&T? I've never heard of a deal being contingent on something like renouncing a FA before.

Presti: Okay fine. We reject it. Now go renounce AK so that you have cap space to sign Martin.

Unfortunately for the Spurs, Minnesota doesn't have any leverage with OKC here.

[SpurPadre]

All this over AK at age 32. If he get signed at a REASONABLE price great, if not no big deal..Damn, its funny how AK is ok 8+ mil but Tiago and Manu are overpaid. Everybody needs to take a step back and catch your breath. :lol

THIS X10000. Aren't you guys tired of getting basketball geriatrics every year to an already old team? Sure, he still has alot left in the tank and would help us a good deal but we shouldn't be all stressed out over this happening or not.

[ducks]

I am not stressed I am not in the spurs front office right now

[gameFACE]

No chance Green is in the deal. If he was, Minnesota would take that without flinching for a second. Remember, Kirilenko is going to walk anyway. If there was a player like Green in the deal, its as if they're getting him for free, and he's a pretty darn good player.

I hope Green wouldn't be. But you have to have something in the deal besides the players everyone usually wants to get rid of like Bonner/Mills/DeCoco. Unless Flip is Isiah Thomas stupid.

[ducks]

no kl,duncan or parker
any one else to get the deal done ok

[Seventyniner]

Presti: Okay fine. We reject it. Now go renounce AK so that you have cap space to sign Martin.

Unfortunately for the Spurs, Minnesota doesn't have any leverage with OKC here.

I guess if OC doesn't want the TE then sure. I know they won't use it fully because they're so close to the tax, but it could be used to take back a slightly more expensive player than they otherwise could.

[Baam]

THIS X10000. Aren't you guys tired of getting basketball geriatrics every year to an already old team? Sure, he still has alot left in the tank and would help us a good deal but we shouldn't be all stressed out over this happening or not.

Not tired at all about guys like Diaw and Kirilenko... Boris is older than Tiago and he took a huge dump on him once again in the POs. Age isn't everything, there s a huge gap between guys around 30 who can contribute big time and complete tosb throwing the ball in the crowd like Manu who got a contract to sell jerseys and tickets.

[coyotes_geek]

I guess if OC doesn't want the TE then sure. I know they won't use it fully because they're so close to the tax, but it could be used to take back a slightly more expensive player than they otherwise could.

I'm sure they want the TE, but if giving up the TE keeps AK off the Spurs, then they're going to be okay without it.

[CGD]

All this over AK at age 32. If he get signed at a REASONABLE price great, if not no big deal..Damn, its funny how AK is ok 8+ mil but Tiago and Manu are overpaid. Everybody needs to take a step back and catch your breath. :lol
I tend to agree, though, Ak would be productive In SA. 9m a year productive? idk. AK or no AK, he probably isn't worth all this fuss tbh. fans are just anxious for the spurs to make some sort of splash.

[spurraider21]

the fans want this because the big 3 era is officially coming to a close, with all their contracts set to expire after 2014-2015. the franchise owes it to them to put them in the best possible position to succeed until that time

[Budkin]

There isn't a thing the Spurs front office could or could not do that would be any more disappointing than the ending of Game 6. Not gonna phase me if we don't get AK.

[Baam]

I tend to agree, though, Ak would be productive In SA. 9m a year productive? idk. AK or no AK, he probably isn't worth all this fuss tbh. fans are just anxious for the spurs to make some sort of splash.

He'd be worth every cent in the PO. Tiago is not worth it but AK is, there's no lineup that would force him out of a series, very high BBiQ, great defender, tough... Just like Boris he'd be awesome on this team.

He just came off his most efficient season scoring the ball btw.

[ducks]

who will report the ak47 deal first?

[spurraider21]

who will report the ak47 deal first?

the Spurs at their press conference :hat

[SpurPadre]

the fans want this because the big 3 era is officially coming to a close, with all their contracts set to expire after 2014-2015. the franchise owes it to them to put them in the best possible position to succeed until that time

If it's there, fine. If not, I'd be ok with just the Marco signing and wait to see how Kawhi steps up his game and hope we can pull off a trade by the trade deadline...maybe by then, there will be more useful players available?

[yavozerb]

He'd be worth every cent in the PO. Tiago is not worth it but AK is, there's no lineup that would force him out of a series, very high BBiQ, great defender, tough... Just like Boris he'd be awesome on this team.

He just came off his most efficient season scoring the ball btw.

What makes you say this? Do you realize that AK has never made an entire NBA season(minus shortened season) in his entire career? Do you realize his career numbers in playoffs are 10 ppg, 4rpg, in 30 mpg. I hate throwing numbers out there but damn what else do we have to go on? I like AK's defense and hustle also, but for his asking salary I say no way.

[ducks]

ak47 is the most usefully player that can be had

[Seventyniner]

I'm sure they want the TE, but if giving up the TE keeps AK off the Spurs, then they're going to be okay without it.

Point taken. But would they forego the TE even though AK to the Spurs isn't assured if they do take it? A fascinating game of chicken indeed. If this wheeling and dealing really is playing out this way, I really hope Woj or someone else well-connected writes an in-depth piece before training camp.

[ducks]

What makes you say this? Do you realize that AK has never made an entire NBA season(minus shortened season) in his entire career? Do you realize his career numbers in playoffs are 10 ppg, 4rpg, in 30 mpg. I hate throwing numbers out there but damn what else do we have to go on? I like AK's defense and hustle also, but for his asking salary I say no way.

he would be ok with pop with limiting his minutes
he is NO WORSE THEN MANU
he never was one a really good team in postseason
he is not going to be the first three option number 4 and 5 he will be fine
he also can create for others something spurs need

[CGD]

He'd be worth every cent in the PO. Tiago is not worth it but AK is, there's no lineup that would force him out of a series, very high BBiQ, great defender, tough... Just like Boris he'd be awesome on this team.

He just came off his most efficient season scoring the ball btw.

Idk man, I can't think of a time where AK was on a team that made a deep playoff run or where he was a factor in a playoff series at all, so I'm not sure I can take THAT optimistic of a view. I'll give you the tough part.

[ducks]

jazz teams sucked
good enough to make the playoffs but that was it and not good enough to beat kobe and the lakers

[rjv]

aren't the cavs currently pursuing kirilenko (as a backup to bynum) ?

[NASpurs]

WTF happened in between the 23 pages of this thread that it started with the Spurs talks for AK ended to there being optimism that the Spurs are going to do a S&T with Minny for him? Serious question.

[lurker23]

WTF happened in between the 23 pages of this thread that it started with the Spurs talks for AK ended to there being optimism that the Spurs are going to do a S&T with Minny for him? Serious question.

I think mostly the fact that the Spurs have yet to announce any signings, and that Minnesota might not have to renounce AK47 to get Brewer and Martin (as cap flexibility was one of the reasons stated that Minny didn't want to do it).

[rjv]

WTF happened in between the 23 pages of this thread that it started with the Spurs talks for AK ended to there being optimism that the Spurs are going to do a S&T with Minny for him? Serious question.


well the whole title was misleading. there really has never been any definitive statement from any of the teams involved and whenever there is speculation there is also doubt and/or hope.

[ducks]

spur fan nothing better to do today

[SpurPadre]

WTF happened in between the 23 pages of this thread that it started with the Spurs talks for AK ended to there being optimism that the Spurs are going to do a S&T with Minny for him? Serious question.

Yeah, it's really a pipe dream for many Spurs fans at this point, tbh. 99% chance this is dead in the water and he's going elsewhere.

[timvp]

The hope mostly surrounds the fact that Minnesota had originally called a press conference for 9 AM to announce the signing of Kevin Martin. However, they've delayed that press conference while they work on roster maneuvering. Perhaps the Spurs landing AK47 takes place somewhere within that maneuvering.

[ducks]

I would say more then 1% chance

longer this draws out to me there is more chance it happening
until someone holds a press confernce then things change

[exstatic]

WTF happened in between the 23 pages of this thread that it started with the Spurs talks for AK ended to there being optimism that the Spurs are going to do a S&T with Minny for him? Serious question.

Minnesota didn't renounce AK yet. They had a presser scheduled for 9 AM to announce the Martin signing that has not yet happened, meaning things are still being worked.

[angelbelow]

Kind of feels like the Scola situation from last season. Small chance of happening but still hard not to hold your breathe in this situation.

[RD2191]

:music

[Phenomanul]

The hope mostly surrounds the fact that Minnesota had originally called a press conference for 9 AM to announce the signing of Kevin Martin. However, they've delayed that press conference while they work on roster maneuvering. Perhaps the Spurs landing AK47 takes place somewhere within that maneuvering.

:hungry:

[Mark in Austin]

SA could get creative in other ways - add another year to Manu's deal but drop the avg (or at least next years) salary with the tacit understanding that Manu can retire / be waived after the second year & keep the money. The idea that SA is preserving future capspace is a little silly - we've seen how little max capspace has helped this team in the past. Honestly same could be done w/ Pendergrast too - drop the yearly but add a third year to the deal to squeeze out enough capspace. If they need to salary dump Bonner, DeColo or Mills Lindsey in Utah and Ferry in ATL would probably be able to help them out (hell, look what Utah just did for Golden State)

[Leetonidas]

^Exactly, no point in trying to lure FAs that aren't going to come when our team is shit. The time is NOW.

[Knoxxx]

Minny needs to set AK free this is crummy of them. Can they just S&T to us for a draft pick?

[Knoxxx]

SA could get creative in other ways - add another year to Manu's deal but drop the avg (or at least next years) salary with the tacit understanding that Manu can retire / be waived after the second year & keep the money. The idea that SA is preserving future capspace is a little silly - we've seen how little max capspace has helped this team in the past. Honestly same could be done w/ Pendergrast too - drop the yearly but add a third year to the deal to squeeze out enough capspace. If they need to salary dump Bonner, DeColo or Mills Lindsey in Utah and Ferry in ATL would probably be able to help them out (hell, look what Utah just did for Golden State)

Not sure this is possible.

[Mal]

Minny needs to set AK free this is crummy of them. Can they just S&T to us for a draft pick?

They have to take salaries.

[coyotes_geek]

Minny needs to set AK free this is crummy of them. Can they just S&T to us for a draft pick?

They can, but the Spurs can't make that deal unless they're under the cap by enough to absorb AK's salary, or they send out enough salary to meet the CBA's salary match requirements.

[monkeypunk]

SA could get creative in other ways - add another year to Manu's deal but drop the avg (or at least next years) salary with the tacit understanding that Manu can retire / be waived after the second year & keep the money.

Could really be why they are waiting to announce anything. Figuring out the right equation of (money vs. length) contracts with B, P, M and T to give them enough space this year to fit AK in.

[bluebellmaniac]

They can, but the Spurs can't make that deal unless they're under the cap by enough to absorb AK's salary, or they send out enough salary to meet the CBA's salary match requirements.

By most accounts Minny is not wanting to take back any salary so we're looking at the first option. Amnestying/Trading Bonner and trading NDC to a willing team gets us up to $7.8M we can offer as a first year salary. Then sign Belinelli and Pendergraph with the MLE.

[spurraider21]

seriously, its getting to be really eerie that we haven't announced any signings yet

[coyotes_geek]

By most accounts Minny is not wanting to take back any salary so we're looking at the first option. Amnestying/Trading Bonner and trading NDC to a willing team gets us up to $7.8M we can offer as a first year salary. Then sign Belinelli and Pendergraph with the MLE.

No MLE if you've got capspace. If the Spurs use capspace to land AK, then they could sign Belinelli with the room exception, but Pendergraph could only be brought in on a league min deal.

[Mark in Austin]

Not sure this is possible.

Or they can simply pay him for the third year while he is permanently on the inactive list.

[lurker23]

Could really be why they are waiting to announce anything. Figuring out the right equation of (money vs. length) contracts with B, P, M and T to give them enough space this year to fit AK in.

Is this an NBA roster or an algebra problem?

[Knoxxx]

Could really be why they are waiting to announce anything. Figuring out the right equation of (money vs. length) contracts with B, P, M and T to give them enough space this year to fit AK in.

Plausible. Manu got his big offer to confirm he was still highly valued, now we can approach him with how the $14 million commitment and structure affects immediate roster options.

[Knoxxx]

seriously, its getting to be really eerie that we haven't announced any signings yet

Not really, it is better with all the unsettled situations (AK, Neal, Bonner, 8 guards) to know the Spurs are still working out the best options.

[spurraider21]

Not really, it is better with all the unsettled situations (AK, Neal, Bonner, 8 guards) to know the Spurs are still working out the best options.

i know. meant it in a good way. its unusual to delay it this much, so somethings GOTTA be cooking. where there's smoke theres fire, etc. etc.

[ace3g]

from one of the Wolves beat writers:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/214993291.html

[monkeypunk]

Is this an NBA roster or an algebra problem?

It's all algebra if you look at it the right way.

Example:

Spurs (S) - RJ (HWSNBN) = X

Find for X becomes (S) + (HWSNBN) = playoff team - suckass negative stats player (HWSNBN) = Contenders

Simple math, :lol

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm really hoping the Spurs are doing something that's going to shock and awe us.

[timvp]

from one of the Wolves beat writers:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/214993291.html

Damn, that looks like worst case scenario :depressed

[spurraider21]

from one of the Wolves beat writers:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/214993291.html




(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[DesignatedT]

Yep. Does the above course of action require MIN to renounce Kirilenko? Or can they still keep his rights and entertain offers?

[siraulo23]

:lol at least this thread can finLly be closed holy cow 24pages of speculation

[monkeypunk]

Damn, that looks like worst case scenario :depressed

And OKC can turn around and use the TE on AK, right?

:pctoss

[spurraider21]

And OKC can turn around and use the TE on AK, right?

:pctoss

if i'm not mistaken, that would put them over the luxury tax threshold, which they are not interested in doing

[monkeypunk]

if i'm not mistaken, that would put them over the luxury tax threshold, which they are not interested in doing

Hope that stays the case.

[spurraider21]

i hope we run the score up on minnesota every time we play them

[Hoops Czar]

If the Spurs miss out on AK47, they have nobody to blame but themselves. Their priorities were all screwed up from the get go. They chose Pendergragh over AK47.

[Chinook]

So wait, the Wolves are going to clear cap space just to execute a sign-and-trade? That doesn't make sense. They could just sign both outright and not help out OKC (which apparently factors into things). I think they'd just remain over the cap and use the MLE to sign Brewer, which would allow them to keep Kirilenko in their hip pocket. I don't understand the Wolves' move at all if this is the case.

[monkeypunk]

i hope we run the score up on minnesota every time we play them

I hope their last game of the season with us determines whether they are 8th or 9th seed and we keep them from making the PO's at all.

True justice for Flip, that would be.

[spurraider21]

If the Spurs miss out on AK47, they have nobody to blame but themselves. Their priorities were all screwed up from the get go. They chose Pendergragh over AK47.

pendergraph, belinelli, and bonner. unless the reports were messed up and pengergraph is vets minimum (though I highly doubt a young guy would sign a 2 year minimum deal) while Belinelli gets the room exception, in which case we could still hypothetically amnesty bonner to make an offer. but thats WAY too many ifs and buts and won't happen.

[TheGoldStandard]

i hope we run the score up on minnesota every time we play them

What's sad is that Minnesota is usually a team like the Trailblazers that play us hard. 10-13 seeded teams give the Spurs fits.

[HemisfairArena]

How did this thread get this many pages? Once we re-signed Splitter and Manu it was all over trying to get Kirilenko.

[spurraider21]

So wait, the Wolves are going to clear cap space just to execute a sign-and-trade? That doesn't make sense. They could just sign both outright and not help out OKC (which apparently factors into things). I think they'd just remain over the cap and use the MLE to sign Brewer, which would allow them to keep Kirilenko in their hip pocket. I don't understand the Wolves' move at all if this is the case.

are they allowed to just use cap space to sign kevin martin AND use the MLE on brewer? you're more cap savvy than I am, but from my understanding they won't be able to do that

[Texas_Ranger]

until the spurs announce their signings something is going on, so just wait.

[benefactor]

If the Spurs miss out on AK47, they have nobody to blame but themselves. Their priorities were all screwed up from the get go. They chose Pendergragh over AK47.
Not really.

[Chinook]

are they allowed to just use cap space to sign kevin martin AND use the MLE on brewer? you're more cap savvy than I am, but from my understanding they won't be able to do that

Them dumping Ridnour gives them the cap space to just sign both outright. But according to the article, they want to sign-and-trade for Martin, which is a move a team only does when they don't have cap space (for the most part). Then they want to use the remainder of their cap space on Brewer.

They could just use Ridnour's dump to get Martin and the MLE to get Brewer, which they could do without renouncing Kirilenko.

[TheGoldStandard]

No ill will or anything like that but 10 games in if Manu gets hurt for half a season it's really going to sting.

[ducks]

that article is just speculation
it was reported earlier brewer reached an agreement with the wolves and it looked like the mle so they could sign him with a sign and trade or mle

[Knoxxx]

that article is just speculation
it was reported earlier brewer reached an agreement with the wolves and it looked like the mle so they could sign him with a sign and trade or mle

Let's hope that article and the ones about Spurs so far both turn out to be speculative and incorrect.

[ace3g]

Hopefully true, would keep their money away from AK

Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard
(http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard)Source: Andrew Bynum has decided to sign with Cleveland

[apalisoc_9]

Hopefully true, would keep their money away from AK

Chris Broussard @Chris_Broussard
(http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard)Source: Andrew Bynum has decided to sign with Cleveland




Too bad it's from Mr. Multiple Sources.

[ace3g]

Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO
(http://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO)Andrew Bynum and agent just got off phone with Cavs. That is who Bynum will choose. ESPN tweeted faster than I can type.

[TheGoldStandard]

Cleveland, if healthy look to be at least in the picture in the bottom half of the East.

[monkeypunk]

Well, more dominoes should fall now.

[Hoops Czar]

Not really.
If AK47 was their top free agent choice, he should have been a priority over spare parts like Pendergragh, who'll be lucky to see any meaningful minutes this season. I'm pretty sure their wasn't a huge market for Pendergragh and he probably could have been had for cheap. If the Spurs want to sign and trade with Minny, they are going to have to find a third team willing to take Bonner, Neal, and possibly one of Mills/De Colo. The Spurs can send a second round draft pick Minnesota's way paving the way for AK47. Flip is trying to do what's best for Minnesota and just maybe he isn't as interested in the packages the Spurs had to offer.

[DesignatedT]

AK to Dallas coming in 3..2..1

[spurraider21]

AK to Dallas coming in 3..2..1
Nazis and Soviets united

[tesseractive]

Them dumping Ridnour gives them the cap space to just sign both outright. But according to the article, they want to sign-and-trade for Martin, which is a move a team only does when they don't have cap space (for the most part). Then they want to use the remainder of their cap space on Brewer.

They could just use Ridnour's dump to get Martin and the MLE to get Brewer, which they could do without renouncing Kirilenko.
Why do you need to dump Ridnour at all to get Martin in a sign and trade?

[Chinook]

Why do you need to dump Ridnour at all to get Martin in a sign and trade?

They can just sign Martin with cap space (which could include a sign-and-trade), but then they wouldn't be able to sign Brewer, since they'd only have the room exception at that point. Acquiring Martin in a sign-and-trade using Ridnour means they can stay over the cap and use the MLE still.

[monkeypunk]

AK to Dallas coming in 3..2..1

$$$ - yes
Contender - no

Lets see if he was being honest. Probably not.

[benefactor]

If AK47 was their top free agent choice, he should have been a priority over spare parts like Pendergragh, who'll be lucky to see any meaningful minutes this season. I'm pretty sure their wasn't a huge market for Pendergragh and he probably could have been had for cheap. If the Spurs want to sign and trade with Minny, they are going to have to find a third team willing to take Bonner, Neal, and possibly one of Mills/De Colo. The Spurs can send a second round draft pick Minnesota's way paving the way for AK47. Flip is trying to do what's best for Minnesota and just maybe he isn't as interested in the packages the Spurs had to offer.
ok

[spurraider21]

$$$ - yes
Contender - no

Lets see if he was being honest. Probably not.

there's gotta be a contender that offers him at least a decent contract first. as it stands, the spurs aren't really positioned to do so, in which case it makes sense to play for the highest bidder. still, i doubt the mavs are going to give him multiple years, and AK wouldn't sign a 1 year deal. heck, he turned down 1 year 10 mil, so why would he go to dallas and sign a 1 year deal worth less than that?

[HemisfairArena]

there's gotta be a contender that offers him at least a decent contract first. as it stands, the spurs aren't really positioned to do so, in which case it makes sense to play for the highest bidder. still, i doubt the mavs are going to give him multiple years, and AK wouldn't sign a 1 year deal. heck, he turned down 1 year 10 mil, so why would he go to dallas and sign a 1 year deal worth less than that?

Finally...someone that gets it. when we re-signed Manu and Splitter, we had no shot at Kilirenko. He opted out of a 10 mil deal. He isnt going to sign for peanuts in San Antonio.

[tesseractive]

They can just sign Martin with cap space (which could include a sign-and-trade), but then they wouldn't be able to sign Brewer, since they'd only have the room exception at that point. Acquiring Martin in a sign-and-trade using Ridnour means they can stay over the cap and use the MLE still.
The basic premise, though, is if they're over the cap, that they have to ship out enough salary to take back salary in a sign and trade?

[ducks]

what team that truly has a shot at title has more then the mle
NAMES PLEASE

[spursfan4ever]

AK to Dallas coming in 3..2..1

That is what I said earlier in this thread. Asshole Cuban would do that to us. Fucker!

[tesseractive]

Would playing AK next to Dirk make any sense whatsoever?

[Chinook]

The basic premise, though, is if they're over the cap, that they have to ship out enough salary to take back salary in a sign and trade?

That's the thing. The Wolves shouldn't need to do a sign-and-trade at all. Dumping Ridnour should give them enough cap space to sign both players outright. If they do a sign-and-trade for Martin while still renouncing Kirilenko and signing Brewer with cap space, they will literally be just giving OKC a trade exception (not to mention a pick or something else to fill out the trade) for no reason. The only benefit of doing the sign-and-trade is to allow them to keep AK Non-Bird Rights in their back pocket.

[spurraider21]

That's the thing. The Wolves shouldn't need to do a sign-and-trade at all. Dumping Ridnour should give them enough cap space to sign both players outright. If they do a sign-and-trade for Martin while still renouncing Kirilenko and signing Brewer with cap space, they will literally be just giving OKC a trade exception for nothing. The only benefit of doing the sign-and-trade is to allow them to keep AK Non-Bird Rights in their back pocket.
okc possibly throwing a couple of 2nd rounders in there for the exception?

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Would playing AK next to Dirk make any sense whatsoever?

Dirk will need to up the deodorant protection he wears if he plays with Dirk.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxcXRhd1sr4

[Chinook]

okc possibly throwing a couple of 2nd rounders in there for the exception?

The Wolves actually have to give OKC a pick or something for the trade to go through in the first place. It's possible that OKC would give them a better one back, but even so, I don't think the Thunder would give up that much.

[HemisfairArena]

How sick would it be if Atlanta signed Kirilenko since Smith left? Ferry and coach Bud beating us at our own game and they have the money.

[spurraider21]

The Wolves actually have to give OKC a pick or something for the trade to go through in the first place. It's possible that OKC would give them a better one back, but even so, I don't think the Thunder would give up that much.

well, OKC could give something like one or two 2nd round picks for a top 55 protected 2nd rounder just to make it work

[Chinook]

well, OKC could give something like one or two 2nd round picks for a top 55 protected 2nd rounder just to make it work

And they could. Even so, the Wolves should still use their MLE on Brewer instead of cap space. That would give them a lot more time to work out a sign-and-trade with a team for AK. If they can get a third team to take Bonner and Mills, then they can get another pick out of the Spurs while also gaining a valuable trade exception.

[tesseractive]

That's the thing. The Wolves shouldn't need to do a sign-and-trade at all. Dumping Ridnour should give them enough cap space to sign both players outright. If they do a sign-and-trade for Martin while still renouncing Kirilenko and signing Brewer with cap space, they will literally be just giving OKC a trade exception (not to mention a pick or something else to fill out the trade) for no reason. The only benefit of doing the sign-and-trade is to allow them to keep AK Non-Bird Rights in their back pocket.
So if that's the case, the moves that have happened so far are actually an indication that the talks are still ongoing, yes?

[spurraider21]

And they could. Even so, the Wolves should still use their MLE on Brewer instead of cap space. That would give them a lot more time to work out a sign-and-trade with a team for AK. If they can get a third team to take Bonner and Mills, then they can get another pick out of the Spurs while also gaining a valuable trade exception.

According to last night's yahoo article they have no intention of facilitating Kirilenko's move to another team, sort of like how the Lakers refused to send Dwight to the Warriors in a S&T.

But if that were the case, he'd have been renounced by now, so I have no clue what's going on

[Chinook]

So if that's the case, the moves that have happened so far are actually an indication that the talks are still ongoing, yes?

Not if they use cap room to sign Brewer. That would kill the talks. They should just use the MLE on Brewer and then continue Kirilenko talks without having to worry about any deadlines. They could continue to squeeze the Spurs that way.