Yahoo: Spurs' talks for Andrei Kirilenko end without deal

[Chinook]

According to last night's yahoo article they have no intention of facilitating Kirilenko's move to another team, sort of like how the Lakers refused to send Dwight to the Warriors in a S&T.

But if that were the case, he'd have been renounced by now, so I have no clue what's going on

Yeah, I think that part was speculation. As I said last night, the Wolves really just don't have the cap space and roster spots to absorb a Spurs package by themselves. If they're willing to give the Thunder a trade exception out of the blue, they'll be fine giving the Spurs Kirilenko in exchange for picks.

The real reason why this hasn't happened yet is because San Antonio has not decided to pay another team to take Bonner and Mills. If the Spurs did that, they could just take AK without having to send Minnesota salary.

[xmas1997]

It is over with, we did not get him. Next............

[spurraider21]

Yeah, I think that part was speculation. As I said last night, the Wolves really just don't have the cap space and roster spots to absorb a Spurs package by themselves. If they're willing to give the Thunder a trade exception out of the blue, they'll be fine giving the Spurs Kirilenko in exchange for picks.

The real reason why this hasn't happened yet is because San Antonio has not decided to pay another team to take Bonner and Mills. If the Spurs did that, they could just take AK without having to send Minnesota salary.
mills would be easy to dump since his contract is tiny and he has performed well in his spot starts. bonner is a different animal because his salary is about 4 million

[Chinook]

mills would be easy to dump since his contract is tiny and he has performed well in his spot starts. bonner is a different animal because his salary is about 4 million

They could probably dump De Colo for free. But they'd have to pay a team to take Bonner (even though he's worth his contract). I don't think they'd be inclined to give a first to Minnesota for AK as well as one to the Jazz to take Bonner.

[Seventyniner]

They could probably dump De Colo for free. But they'd have to pay a team to take Bonner (even though he's worth his contract). I don't think they'd be inclined to give a first to Minnesota for AK as well as one to the Jazz to take Bonner.

When is the deadline for using the amnesty? I thought it could be used at any time, with the fact that only grandfathered contracts being eligible provides an expiration.

If using the amnesty on Bonner saves a first-round pick, it would be worth it imo. GS paid $10M for the 30th pick, so $4M for the 28th is a good deal.

[Chinook]

When is the deadline for using the amnesty? I thought it could be used at any time, with the fact that only grandfathered contracts being eligible provides an expiration.

If using the amnesty on Bonner saves a first-round pick, it would be worth it imo. GS paid $10M for the 30th pick, so $4M for the 28th is a good deal.

The amnesty may not be enough to help them. They need not only Bonner's $4 Million, but also the extra $2 Million in salary that trading his contract allows them to take back.

[ace3g]

damn!!!!

Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO
(http://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO)Now, source says, keep eye out for Cavs' possible pursuit of SF Andrei Kirilenko.

[apalisoc_9]

If a deal is not made today with AK47, does that mean the end of it? We're 5:45 minutes away from 12am CT. Nothing Yet.

[Chinook]

If a deal is not made today with AK47, does that mean the end of it? We're 5:45 minutes away from 12am CT. Nothing Yet.

...What?

[TheGoldStandard]

damn!!!!

Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO
(http://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO)Now, source says, keep eye out for Cavs' possible pursuit of SF Andrei Kirilenko.




Shit

[Kindergarten Cop]

When is the deadline for using the amnesty? I thought it could be used at any time, with the fact that only grandfathered contracts being eligible provides an expiration.

If using the amnesty on Bonner saves a first-round pick, it would be worth it imo. GS paid $10M for the 30th pick, so $4M for the 28th is a good deal.

It has to be used on or before July 16th.

[DesignatedT]

How much $ does Cleveland have left after Bynum signing?

[SpursRock20]

If a deal is not made today with AK47, does that mean the end of it? We're 5:45 minutes away from 12am CT. Nothing Yet.
I don't think today is a deadline for anything. It is just the first official day that FA signings can happen.

[TheGoldStandard]

How much $ does Cleveland have left after Bynum signing?

They should still have at least 8 or 9M left over.. they were really really under the cap.

[DesignatedT]

They should still have at least 8 or 9M left over.. they were really really under the cap.

Thanks. Anyway, I don't see Cleveland offering AK more than a 2 year deal but that might be enough since the market is pretty thin for him.

[Kindergarten Cop]

How much $ does Cleveland have left after Bynum signing?

Surely they are not offering a multiyear deal that would risk damaging any chance they have of luring LBJ back to Cleveland after next season. I always feared Cleveland as a threat if they didn't land Bynum, but I don't see how they would still be a threat after agreeing with him.

[DesignatedT]

Surely they are not offering a multiyear deal that would risk damaging any chance they have of luring LBJ back to Cleveland after next season.

True.

[TheGoldStandard]

Thanks. Anyway, I don't see Cleveland offering AK more than a 2 year deal but that might be enough since the market is pretty thin for him.

Yeah, 2 year deal for 18 to 20 Mil could do it given that they have good prospects.. They have 3 non-guaranteed contracts and a lot of team options they can shed next season too in order to free up cap space to go after FA

[apalisoc_9]

...What?

Terrible wording. Sorry.

What I'm trying to say, we're not going to wait till the trade deadline in february to make moves are we? That's almost half of the season with barely enough time to strengthen chemsitry between a 6/7 player and the team. Plus the signing period begins the 10tlh so if don't see any reports by today..then that pretty much kills any hope of signing ak47

[apalisoc_9]

I don't think today is a deadline for anything. It is just the first official day that FA signings can happen.

That's what I meant.

[SenorSpur]

It's just as well. He would've been a very capable backup SF, but I think he's slightly overrated now, compared to the player he used to be.

[Chinook]

Terrible wording. Sorry.

What I'm trying to say, we're not going to wait till the trade deadline in february to make moves are we? That's almost half of the season with barely enough time to strengthen chemsitry between a 6/7 player and the team. Plus the signing period begins the 10tlh so if don't see any reports by today..then that pretty much kills any hope of signing ak47

If the Wolves complete the sign-and-trade for AK and use the MLE on Brewer, they can take their time with Kirilenko. There won't be any deadlines for them or the Spurs at that point.

[TheGoldStandard]

Surely they are not offering a multiyear deal that would risk damaging any chance they have of luring LBJ back to Cleveland after next season. I always feared Cleveland as a threat if they didn't land Bynum, but I don't see how they would still be a threat after agreeing with him.

They have a ton of flexibility, they can shed a lot of deals after this coming season, they could easily cut Varejao, Gee and Clark and save 16Mil next season.

[Keepin' it real]

The way I see it, if AK is single, he might consider coming to San Antonio for less $$$ to play for a winner. But if he's married, well, 'nuff said ...

[coyotes_geek]

How much $ does Cleveland have left after Bynum signing?

Haven't kept up if they've signed anyone besides Bynum yet, but if they haven't it looks like they could have around $8M.

[Kindergarten Cop]

If the Wolves complete the sign-and-trade for AK and use the MLE on Brewer, they can take their time with Kirilenko. There won't be any deadlines for them or the Spurs at that point.

Except for the deadline (July 16) to amnesty Bonner (if we cannot get another team to take his contract), right?

[Texas_Ranger]

Lets just hope the spurs have a plan B for the SF position. Going into the season with that many guards and only 1 SF would be pretty bad.

[Kindergarten Cop]

They have a ton of flexibility, they can shed a lot of deals after this coming season, they could easily cut Varejao, Gee and Clark and save 16Mil next season.

Do you honestly think that AK is worth all of that? Not to mention, you want to keep the "cupboards" as full as you can to lure LBJ back.

[coyotes_geek]

Lets just hope the spurs have a plan B for the SF position. Goong into the season with that many guards and only 1 SF would be pretty bad.

If the Spurs don't get AK, we're pretty close to the point where Danny Green makes a better SF than anyone else who would be attainable.

[Chinook]

Except for the deadline (July 16) to amnesty Bonner (if we cannot get another team to take his contract), right?

I doubt the Spurs intend on amnestying him at all. There's no need to, as his expiring deal is more valuable on the roster. The Spurs will be over the cap either way.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Lets just hope the spurs have a plan B for the SF position. Going into the season with that many guards and only 1 SF would be pretty bad.

This

[TheGoldStandard]

Do you honestly think that AK is worth all of that? Not to mention, you want to keep the "cupboards" as full as you can to lure LBJ back.

No, not for AK but they could take on AK's contract and easily have cash to sway LBJ back.. They've positioned themselves to be quite young with scorers and a solid PG with tons of cash left over to get him over.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Haven't kept up if they've signed anyone besides Bynum yet, but if they haven't it looks like they could have around $8M.
Jack for 7mil a year and they have an additional 6mil tied to their 1st round picks leaving them at around 55mil salaries with these salaries. Best they can offer is the MLE to AK. Looks like that will be all any team will be able to offer AK. So the Spurs could sign AK with MLE and do a S&T for Marco and give the Bulls their 2nd round pick in next year's draft. I believe the Spurs have the Raptors 2nd round pick in next year's draft as well.

So AK might take a 2 year deal with the Spurs with a PO and opt next year the Spurs can sign him to like a 6mil a year deal for 3 years. It just might boil down to if Kirilenko is willing to give up 9 mil over a 4 year deal to play with a contender.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I realize that they play different positions, but is there any way that Minnesota is stalling on the deal for AK because of the unsettled negotiations with Pekovic? It was reported that they had settled on a 4yr/$50M contract, but his camp denied it and is holding out for more. Perhaps Minnesota will reconsider adding AK on a 2-3 year deal if Pekovic's deal falls through and they toss a smaller amount at another PF/C FA? Just a thought.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I realize that they play different positions, but is there any way that Minnesota is stalling on the deal for AK because of the unsettled negotiations with Pekovic? It was reported that they had settled on a 4yr/$50M contract, but his camp denied it and is holding out for more. Perhaps Minnesota will reconsider adding AK on a 2-3 year deal if Pekovic's deal falls through and they toss a smaller amount at another PF/C FA? Just a thought.

I hardly doubt AK goes back to Minny. There seems to be a reason he gave up 10+mil this season to leave. For one, it looks like he doesn't like Flip, and quite honestly Flip is a dick.

[TheGoldStandard]

I hardly doubt AK goes back to Minny. There seems to be a reason he gave up 10+mil this season to leave. For one, it looks like doesn't like Flip, and quite honestly Flip is a dick.

Flip doesn't know how to run a team.

[raybies]

Irving/ jack
Waiters/ miles
Clark/ gee
Thompson/ bennet
Bynum/ varejao/ zeller

If Bynum plays and is healthy, they could be a
4-5 seed. Imo

[widowmaker]

This

Knowing how the spurs have been doing things lately I say they use the guards they have on the roster to play the SF position at some point. Pop only has 2 positons in his offense bigs and smalls.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I hardly doubt AK goes back to Minny. There seems to be a reason he gave up 10+mil this season to leave. For one, it looks like he doesn't like Flip, and quite honestly Flip is a dick.

I always took AK's willingness to walk because of the desire for a long term deal. I don't recall reading anything negative about his stay in Minnesota or a strong desire to leave. Flip may be a dick, as you say, but obviously AK is familiar with the team and if they up the ante and offer a deal that he is looking for - I find it hard to believe that he'd turn it down.

With all that being said, I was just speculating and don't know how likely (if at all) the scenario is.

[coyotes_geek]

Jack for 7mil a year an they have an additional 6mil tied to their 1st round picks leaving them at around 55mil salaries with these salaries. Best they can offer is the MLE to AK. Looks like that will be all any team will be able to offer AK. So the Spurs could sign AK with MLE and do a S&T for Marco and give the Bulls their 2nd round pick in next year's draft. I believe the Spurs have the Raptors 2nd round pick in next year's draft as well.

So AK might take a 2 year deal with the Spurs with a PO and opt next year the Spurs can sign him to like a 6mil a year deal for 3 years. It just might boil down to if Kirilenko is willing to give up 9 mil over a 4 year deal to play with a contender.

Forgot about Jack. Good catch. Jack's deal is going to start around $6.

I had the $6m for the draft picks in there.

Cleveland does have another $4 they could free up by cutting guys with unguaranteed deals. So, from my $8 estimate, subtract $6 for jack and add $4 for the unguaranteed guys and they're at $6 mil they could offer to AK.

Since cleveland has capspace they don't get the MLE.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Forgot about Jack. Good catch. Jack's deal is going to start around $6.

I had the $6m for the draft picks in there.

Cleveland does have another $4 they could free up by cutting guys with unguaranteed deals. So, from my $8 estimate, subtract $6 for jack and add $4 for the unguaranteed guys and they're at $6 mil they could offer to AK.

Since cleveland has capspace they don't get the MLE.

If we could get close to the money that Cleveland can offer, there is NO WAY that AK chooses the Cavs over the Spurs.

[coyotes_geek]

I realize that they play different positions, but is there any way that Minnesota is stalling on the deal for AK because of the unsettled negotiations with Pekovic? It was reported that they had settled on a 4yr/$50M contract, but his camp denied it and is holding out for more. Perhaps Minnesota will reconsider adding AK on a 2-3 year deal if Pekovic's deal falls through and they toss a smaller amount at another PF/C FA? Just a thought.

I don't think it's that. I think what's holding things up is that OKC doesn't want to S&T Martin to them if it's going to result in AK getting S&T'd to San Antonio. Minnesota is probably figuring out if there's a way to get Martin without OKC's help as well as be able to S&T AK for something.

[coyotes_geek]

If we could get close to the money that Cleveland can offer, there is NO WAY that AK chooses the Cavs over the Spurs.

Would certainly think so, but you never know.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I always took AK's willingness to walk because of the desire for a long term deal. I don't recall reading anything negative about his stay in Minnesota or a strong desire to leave. Flip may be a dick, as you say, but obviously AK is familiar with the team and if they up the ante and offer a deal that he is looking for - I find it hard to believe that he'd turn it down.

With all that being said, I was just speculating and don't know how likely (if at all) the scenario is.

Flip has just been there for only two months now. AK opted out and there was never he a hint that he wanted to return to Minny. And the recent events that Flip didn't want to help AK out in any way to sign with a contender, that would leave a bad taste in my mouth if I was a player.

[spurraider21]

I doubt the Spurs intend on amnestying him at all. There's no need to, as his expiring deal is more valuable on the roster. The Spurs will be over the cap either way.

some good expiring contracts did for us this season. we were thrilled that Jax's contract was expiring, and we ended up resigning players and using the MLE anyway. big whoop.

[TheGoldStandard]

some good expiring contracts did for us this season. we were thrilled that Jax's contract was expiring, and we ended up resigning players and using the MLE anyway. big whoop.

Come on now, we all know Tiago Splitter is going to be the future big man the Spurs need and Manu is going to have an MVP like season off the bench.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Forgot about Jack. Good catch. Jack's deal is going to start around $6.

I had the $6m for the draft picks in there.

Cleveland does have another $4 they could free up by cutting guys with unguaranteed deals. So, from my $8 estimate, subtract $6 for jack and add $4 for the unguaranteed guys and they're at $6 mil they could offer to AK.

Since cleveland has capspace they don't get the MLE.

According to this, Cleveland has very little left to offer AK:
Bob Finnan tweets that the Bynum deal exhausted the Cavs' cap room, though I believe they'll still have about $3MM left once Bynum signs his contract. If the Cavs are out of cap space, they could use their $2.652MM room exception, so either way, they don't have much room to give Kirilenko a salary that comes close to what he turned down from Minnesota.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/07/cavs-may-make-run-at-andrei-kirilenko.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Chinook]

some good expiring contracts did for us this season. we were thrilled that Jax's contract was expiring, and we ended up resigning players and using the MLE anyway. big whoop.

The difference there is that the team wanted to keep Jack and they didn't see any offer they wanted for him. They clearly are trying to move Bonner now. They can always let him walk next season; once they amnesty him, they can't get his money back.

[spurraider21]

The difference there is that the team wanted to keep Jack and they didn't see any offer they wanted for him. They clearly are trying to move Bonner now. They can always let him walk next season; once they amnesty him, they can't get his money back.

not sure how its clear at all

[TheGoldStandard]

not sure how its clear at all

Won't believe it till I see it.. Bonner is untouchable.

[Chinook]

not sure how its clear at all

I guess they could want to move Diaw instead, but it's the same thing. The Spurs are trying to move their expirings for players, which was not the case last off-season.

[xmas1997]

What are the Spurs doing, waiting out all potential suitors until they are the only ones left that can offer him anything?

[coyotes_geek]

According to this, Cleveland has very little left to offer AK:
Bob Finnan tweets that the Bynum deal exhausted the Cavs' cap room, though I believe they'll still have about $3MM left once Bynum signs his contract. If the Cavs are out of cap space, they could use their $2.652MM room exception, so either way, they don't have much room to give Kirilenko a salary that comes close to what he turned down from Minnesota.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/07/cavs-may-make-run-at-andrei-kirilenko.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Chris Quinn, CJ Miles and Kevin Jones all have completely unguaranteed contacts. The Cavs could dump all three of them and open up an additional $4.1 of cap room.

[spurraider21]

Chris Quinn, CJ Miles and Kevin Jones all have completely unguaranteed contacts. The Cavs could dump all three of them and open up an additional $4.1 of cap room.
not sure they'd dump CJ miles. Quinn and Jones could be let go of though. besides, aren't these contracts guaranteed by a certain date? any clue when that is?

[coyotes_geek]

not sure they'd dump CJ miles. Quinn and Jones could be let go of though. besides, aren't these contracts guaranteed by a certain date? any clue when that is?

If it meant getting AK, I wouldn't let CJ Miles stand in the way.

No guarantee date written into any of the contracts.

[coyotes_geek]

We need Milwaukee to fall in love with Gary Neal and either Bonner or Diaw. That way the Spurs could ship those two to Milwaukee and be able to take on AK's deal without having to send salary back to Minnesota.

At this point I'd even be willing to consider working a De Colo for that midget A-hole Barea swap into the mix if the extra $3 mil in payroll it would save Minny would help push a deal through.

[ceperez]

AK47 will be a Spur... I guarantee it!

[exstatic]

I don't think it's that. I think what's holding things up is that OKC doesn't want to S&T Martin to them if it's going to result in AK getting S&T'd to San Antonio. Minnesota is probably figuring out if there's a way to get Martin without OKC's help as well as be able to S&T AK for something.

That's actually not stopping them from getting Martin. It is prospectively stopping them from using the MLE on Brewer. If they really piss off Flip, and costs him Brewer, I'm hoping he works a deal for AK to spite OKC.

[coyotes_geek]

That's actually not stopping them from getting Martin. It is prospectively stopping them from using the MLE on Brewer. If they really piss off Flip, and costs him Brewer, I'm hoping he works a deal for AK to spite OKC.

Thought I read somewhere that Minny & Denver had already worked out an S&T for Brewer. Could be wrong though...

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

If it meant getting AK, I wouldn't let CJ Miles stand in the way.

No guarantee date written into any of the contracts.

But if they do that, they completely will lose their Room and MLE just to sign AK 47. Which means that you have a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players your are depending on to fill your bench and starting positions. And you will only have 9 players under contract so you only have the league minimum to fill out the remainder of your roster. The fact they want to resign Gibson, who isn't playing for the Minimum, I hardly doubt the Cavs gut their bench and throw their Room and MLE for ak47 who hasn't expressed any interest in signing with the Cavs at this point. Plus it will completely take them out of the race of possibly getting Lebron back next year.

It seems obvious now that the Spurs were his #1 choice from the start. Looking how things are boiling down at this point, it looks like AK will be a Spurs this year, one way or another.

[TheGoldStandard]

But if they do that, they completely will lose their Room and MLE just to sign AK 47. Which means that you have a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players your are depending on to fill your bench and starting positions. And you will only have 9 players under contract so you only have the league minimum to fill out the remainder of your roster. The fact they want to resign Gibson, who isn't playing for the Minimum, I hardly doubt the Cavs gut their bench and throw their Room and MLE for ak47 who hasn't expressed any interest in signing with the Cavs at this point. Plus it will completely take them out of the race of possibly getting Lebron back next year.

It seems obvious now that the Spurs were his #1 choice from the start. Looking how things are boiling down at this point, it looks like AK will be a Spurs this year, one way or another.

You never know given what they could get next season in Free Agency.. A lot of there contracts are expendable next season and most of the team was made up of young players to begin with.

[spurraider21]

still nothing official announced? we live to fight another day

[Duncan2177]

Won't believe it till I see it.. Bonner is untouchable.

If the FO is smart they would amnesty Bonner.

[exstatic]

Thought I read somewhere that Minny & Denver had already worked out an S&T for Brewer. Could be wrong though...

The only way Minny can get Martin for what they offered and Brewer for what he wants is to S&T for Martin and then use the full MLE for Brewer. If they sign Martin with cap space, they lose the MLE, and only get the "room" exception, which is about half the MLE.

[Leetonidas]

AK47 will be a Spur... I guarantee it!

How so?

[cd021]

If the FO is smart they would amnesty Bonner.

If the Spurs can't orchestrate a S&T, I think they'd need Bonner to stay on the roster to keep the Spurs over the cap. Moving De Colo would give the Spurs almost all of the MLE, from what I understand. We are about $60.5 or so (depending on how much Beli's deal is actually worth) moving De Colo would move us down to by $1.45 to nearly $59 million (less than half a million over the cap, possibly less than and in MLE territory)

[cd021]

Spurs receive AK, JJ Barea or Luke Ridnour

Denver receives Bonner, picks, cash

Okc receives trade exception

Minny receives Martin, Brewer, de Colo, picks, cash

I think this is a more than fair trade. Hopefully no 1st rounders but getting Barea or Ridinour +AK47 would be a nice haul. It also would seem to seal Neal's fate.

[coyotes_geek]

If the FO is smart they would amnesty Bonner.

Amnestying Bonner still doesn't clear enough capspace to offer AK the $8 mil he's looking for.


The only way Minny can get Martin for what they offered and Brewer for what he wants is to S&T for Martin and then use the full MLE for Brewer. If they sign Martin with cap space, they lose the MLE, and only get the "room" exception, which is about half the MLE.

Minny was allegedly going to salary dump Ridnour off to Milwaukee as part of the deal, so if they did that they got Brewer without having to touch their MLE or significantly impacting their ability to go under the cap. Whether the deal officially went through or not, I don't know.

[dallasmaverickslose]

I think this is a more than fair trade. Hopefully no 1st rounders but getting Barea or Ridinour +AK47 would be a nice haul. It also would seem to seal Neal's fate.

who would we trade away for this to happen?

[Sean Cagney]

AK47 will be a Spur... I guarantee it!

No he won't, glad you can guarantee it. I still am shocked this thread is up this far and still going when it said talks were off, what else do you guys need to hear? Move on.

[RD2191]

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[Leetonidas]

No he won't, glad you can guarantee it. I still am shocked this thread is up this far and still going when it said talks were off, what else do you guys need to hear? Move on.

That AK has been renounced, the deal for Brewer and Martin has been made without the Spurs, or that the Spurs indeed used their MLE between Beli and Pendergraph, none of these things we know for sure yet

[Blackjack]

Like that the Spurs were pursuing a deal, and not leaving it to chance. That they weren't able to get it done... not sure if it sucks or is a blessing in disguise.

Honestly don't know what AK's value is to teams that could give him the money he wants, or if they even exist amongst teams that aren't viable contenders - if he doesn't put you over the top or get you to the next level, what's the use in paying him 8M+ per?

Guess he could always go back overseas, definitely a possibility. But if he wants to stay, and all he's really got for offers are MLE-type deals... gotta think the Spurs would be his top choice.

The International flavor, the system, he and Tony have had a pretty good relationship since they were drafted.

Not countin on anything, but I ain't closin the book on AK either.

[Leetonidas]

like most people have pointed out, the fact that none of these teams have officially signed their FAs is telling and points at the fact they're working every possible avenue

[cd021]

The only way would be cap space. Minny would renounce AK to make room, then he could only be signed outright. Spurs would then have to amnesty Bonner, have Belinelli take the room exception, have Pendergrapgh take the league min & probably salary dump 2 low players (Mills/Nando)

By my numbers that would give the spurs...

52.1 if they move Mills
51.8 if they move De Colo

meaning they'd have about $6.5-$6.8 in cap space to sign AK47 outright. Better than the 5.2 MLE and could offer a 2 year $14 million dollar deal keeping us flexible for the off season of 2015 when the big 3 + Green, Pendergraph, Beli etc come off the books. Moving De Colo shouldn't be that hard 1 year deal worth $1.45 and becomes an RFA next season. The Spurs could part with him for a protected 2nd rounder.

[TheWriter]

So no one finds it odd that at 9:30 central time, the Spurs and Wolves have not made any signings official?

People think that's just a coincidence?

[Leetonidas]

So no one finds it odd that at 9:30 central time, the Spurs and Wolves have not made any signings official?

People think that's just a coincidence?
it's the only reason this thread is still going :lol

[spurraider21]

No he won't, glad you can guarantee it. I still am shocked this thread is up this far and still going when it said talks were off, what else do you guys need to hear? Move on.

Cagney being a negative nancy per par

[RD2191]

So what the fudge is going on? Why cant the Spurs sign AK47? Not enough cash? Doesn't wanna play here? I'm confused. :reading

[cd021]

who would we trade away for this to happen?

The dude I quoted had De Colo going to Minny and Bonner going to Denver (plus picks to both and cash to help pay some of Bonners $3.9 million dollar deal) We'd take back AK47 and either Ridniour or Barea to help Minny out. Neal would be gone, likely.

[TXstbobcat]

it's the only reason this thread is still going :lol

This thread will hit 50 pages by the time we find anything out.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Spurs can easily trade for Marco and Pendegraph w/o taking any salary back since their contracts are so small. They can give the Bulls their 2nd round pick and they can give Lorbek rights back to Indy to sign both of these players outright w/o using the MLE. They can turn around and use the MLE to sign Kirlenko to Diaw's deal last year. Kirilenko opts out next year and the Spurs extend him for 3 more years, with a 20% raise and 5% increases in year 2 and 3.

Spurs still can get Ellis as a backup PG/Small Ball SG by trading combination of Neal, Bonner, Cojo/De Colo and picks in a 3 way deal with Atlanta and the Bucks. But I actually like the idea someone mentioned if the Spurs got JJ Barea from the T Wolves, which would negate the need to get someone like Ellis.

Obviously there is a reason the T'Wolves, Spurs, Bucks and Atlanta haven't officially signed anyone at this point.

[dallasmaverickslose]

The dude I quoted had De Colo going to Minny and Bonner going to Denver (plus picks to both and cash to help pay some of Bonners $3.9 million dollar deal) We'd take back AK47 and either Ridniour or Barea to help Minny out. Neal would be gone, likely.

Barea would've been nice. Does he still play at his 2011 Mavs level?

[TXstbobcat]

So what the fudge is going on? Why cant the Spurs sign AK47? Not enough cash? Doesn't wanna play here? I'm confused. :reading

He supposedly wants to play for a contender. It doesn't look like we have enough room under the cap to sign him outright and we need the sign and trade with the wolves to make it happen.

[Kindergarten Cop]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/7/10/4512226/NBA-free-agency-spurs-andrei-kirilenko

Kirilenko could still be within the Spurs' grasp

[RD2191]

Bobcat with the goods, thanks homie.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

So what the fudge is going on? Why cant the Spurs sign AK47? Not enough cash? Doesn't wanna play here? I'm confused. :reading

I think they first want to see if they can get AK in a S&T so they can give him a longer deal upfront and also move some players off the roster, and they will have the MLE to sign Marco and Jeff as well. Otherwise, they will have to sign AK with the full MLE and S&T for Marco and Pendergraph, and with Bulls over the Tax and Indy teetering on it, it won't be able to send any players out.

At the point, it starting to look that there is no team that can offer more than the MLE to Kirilenko at this point, which put the Spurs at the prime position to sign him straight up.

[spurraider21]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/7/10/4512226/NBA-free-agency-spurs-andrei-kirilenko

Kirilenko could still be within the Spurs' grasp
thats just an opinion article that somebody like you or me could have written. it's not an actual story.

what makes me feel a bit better is that neither team made any statement or made any of their signings official. what could be holding them back? :stirpot:

[cd021]

So what the fudge is going on? Why cant the Spurs sign AK47? Not enough cash? Doesn't wanna play here? I'm confused. :reading

We can but the S&T is alot easier (it should be but Minny wants both Brewer and Kevin Martin). We can sign him outright but its much more work

-Amnesty Bonners' $3.9 million dollar deal

-Move De Colo's $1.45 million dollar deal (easy, IMO)

-Restructure the Offers to Pendergraph (He was slated to make $2 million but would need to come down a bit to $1.5 ish)

-Move Beli into the Room exception (2.5 million this season and next season, depending on the reports that may aready be very close to his offer from the Spurs)

The Spurs would have about $6.1 to offer AK47 (more or less).


Or

Amnesty Bonner
and the Spurs would have $57.6 million about $1 million under the cap.

I think the Spurs could change (more money than originally thought)there offers to Beli, Pendergraph, (more likely Manu/ Splitter) dividing $1 million up and putting them just over the cap to allow them to use the MLE of $5.2


The Spurs have to be go getter and AK47 has to agree to the cash of course.

[RD2191]

Damn, thanks for the replies. Cleared alot of shit up.

[cd021]

He supposedly wants to play for a contender. It doesn't look like we have enough room under the cap to sign him outright and we need the sign and trade with the wolves to make it happen.

We can it is just a bit more difficult go down to the end of the page to see my other comment.

[cd021]

Barea would've been nice. Does he still play at his 2011 Mavs level?

I honesty don't watch a ton of Minny ball I live in Virginia (I know, of all places) Can Anyone give this man an answer???

[Kindergarten Cop]

thats just an opinion article that somebody like you or me could have written. it's not an actual story.

what makes me feel a bit better is that neither team made any statement or made any of their signings official. what could be holding them back? :stirpot:

Obviously it's an opinion piece - with no definitive answers one way or the other. In fact, my first thought when I saw it was "Either someone at PTR frequents SpursTalk or one of our members here is an author for PTR." :lol

I just thought I'd add it in the thread, because basically all we are doing is speculating as well.

BTW, I like it that none of the potential teams involved have issued formal statements too.

[Poolboy5623]

I honesty don't watch a ton of Minny ball I live in Virginia (I know, of all places) Can Anyone give this man an answer???

From what I've seen out of him, he has come down a couple of notches...and is still really short.

[Dverde]

This movie requires FO to get rid of Bonner and Jo Co. It won't happen. My guess is they were trying to shove the Bonner and NDC combo at them.

[Sean Cagney]

Cagney being a negative nancy per par

So reality is being negative now? I guess I will just be delusional and make up trades in here in my head and post them on how we can get him! I am over the fact he will not be here, time to move forward and see what they can get.

BTW did you read the thread title? Does that sound positive to you?

[spurraider21]

Yeah, I heard the transactions were final, Kirilenko was renounced, and signed with Cleveland. I heard that all these transactions were formally announced and the players including our own free agent signings were announced at a press conference today.

[Big P]

lol..wut?

[Kindergarten Cop]

So reality is being negative now? I guess I will just be delusional and make up trades in here in my head and post them on how we can get him! I am over the fact he will not be here, time to move forward and see what they can get.

BTW did you read the thread title? Does that sound positive to you?


Yeah, I heard the transactions were final, Kirilenko was renounced, and signed with Cleveland. I heard that all these transactions were formally announced and the players including our own free agent signings were announced at a press conference today.

:corn:

[spursince#99]

Yeah, I heard the transactions were final, Kirilenko was renounced, and signed with Cleveland. I heard that all these transactions were formally announced and the players including our own free agent signings were announced at a press conference today.

Link or :stfu

[Sean Cagney]

That AK has been renounced, the deal for Brewer and Martin has been made without the Spurs, or that the Spurs indeed used their MLE between Beli and Pendergraph, none of these things we know for sure yet

Look I want him on this team, but for who and how? I see you are putting some things together to say maybe it will happen and thats cool, but until I see the trade go through or see him here or positive news I will just take it as he is not coming.
Yeah, I heard the transactions were final, Kirilenko was renounced, and signed with Cleveland. I heard that all these transactions were formally announced and the players including our own free agent signings were announced at a press conference today.

You just called me negative when I said move on and he won't be here and then post this? HUH?

[Leetonidas]

Link or :stfu
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/m/image/1281/35/1281351891588.jpg

[Kindergarten Cop]

lol..wut?


Link or :stfu

He (spurraider21) should have typed in blue or quoted Sean Cagney, because it was an obvious sarcastic response to the previous quote.

[Sean Cagney]

He (spurraider21) should have typed in blue or quoted Sean Cagney, because it was an obvious sarcastic response to the previous quote.

He should have quoted me then to say it. I agree on that there. The truth is though he is not on his way here nor near it yet, all this is speculation and me saying I don't think he will be here and move on is not being negative at all. I don't think he will end up here, if he doesn't I already moved on from it and won't be dissapointed at all while this thread will still be going.


Oh well, hope the Spurs make a move now to get a backup SF because they are thin at that spot.

[cd021]

http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/7/8/4506132/nba-free-agency-cavaliers-andrei-kirilenko-elton-brand-andrew-bynum


The article was written before Bynum agreed to sign with Cleveland. AK47 and Elton Brand was Plan B.

[cd021]

Link or :stfu


Its Not True...
http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/7/8/4506132/nba-free-agency-cavaliers-andrei-kirilenko-elton-brand-andrew-bynum

He was the plan B

Bynum was plan A and they got him

[spurraider21]

yeah i forgot to "reply with quote" and just used quick reply. still, considering they were consecutive posts and considering we were going back and forth i thought more people would have picked up on that.

and yes, blue font was VERY implied

[ducks]

Yeah, I heard the transactions were final, Kirilenko was renounced, and signed with Cleveland. I heard that all these transactions were formally announced and the players including our own free agent signings were announced at a press conference today.

you are one big internet bully want to be
you provide the damm link

[ducks]

yeah i forgot to "reply with quote" and just used quick reply. still, considering they were consecutive posts and considering we were going back and forth i thought more people would have picked up on that.

and yes, blue font was VERY implied

YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO THAT?

[Kindergarten Cop]

He should have quoted me then to say it. I agree on that there. The truth is though he is not on his way here nor near it yet, all this is speculation and me saying I don't think he will be here and move on is not being negative at all. I don't think he will end up here, if he doesn't I already moved on from it and won't be dissapointed at all while this thread will still be going.


Oh well, hope the Spurs make a move now to get a backup SF because they are thin at that spot.

But it doesn't sound as if you are stating your opinion that he won't be here (at least from the way I look at it) - but more of a matter of fact. Especially, when you add in the derogatory remarks towards those that are still holding out a small glimmer of hope.

As it stands, you are more likely to be correct considering the difficulties that we face in bringing AK aboard - but nothing is definitive to this point. I get the pessimistic stance that you are taking and I respect it - but I have to side with those on the optimistic side (I know that I'm torturing myself). I'll hold out hope until something is made official.

If not, I hope that the Spurs move on to plan B to fix that glaring hole at backup SF as well.

[spursince#99]

you are one big internet bully want to be
you provide the damm link


Chill dimwit. :lol

[spurraider21]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=b3oXFrIx1MkflM&tbnid=Dq9-mzEWzLuMmM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ownzee.com%2Fattachments%2F20 12%2F08%2Fpic6%2F5036b937-1644-49da-bc34-2b7fcdbab12d.jpg&ei=GyXeUdu5FYPiiAK21YDgDg&psig=AFQjCNH3mbZLxrfwOai9S_EpCD4hadjTag&ust=1373599387399279

[coyotes_geek]

All data from Sham.

Spurs have $41,666,028 in committed salaries (TP, TD, Diaw, Bonner, Green, Leonard, Decolo, Mills, Joseph, Baynes)
Spurs have $30,642,049 in cap holds for Manu, Tiago, Blair, Neal, and LJC's rookie scale slot. (not counting all the cap holds for the ghosts of Robert Horry, Nick Van Exel, etc..)

Spurs current salary cap figure is $72,308,077

1. Re-signing Manu adds $6,746,988 to salary, removes $19,136,250 cap hold. Cap figure would be at $59,918,815; $1,239,815 over the cap.

2. Renouncing rights to Blair, Neal and getting the agreement with LJC that he's not coming this year removes $4,012,199 of cap holds. Spurs now $2,772,384 under the cap.

3. Amnestying Bonner would remove $3,945,000 of salary, but add a $490,180 cap hold because the Spurs will have fallen below the 12 player roster limit. Spurs now $6,227,204 under the cap. Probably not enough to get AK. Definitely not enough to get AK and $2 mil for Pendergraph.

4. The Spurs could salary dump DeColo. Subtracts $1,463,000 of salary, but adds another $490,180 roster charge for falling another player below the 12 player limit. Spurs now $7,200,024 under the cap. Probably getting in the ballpark for AK, but still not enough to get AK and pay $2 mil for Pendergraph.

5. The Spurs could salary dump Mills. Subtracts $1,133,950 of salary, but creates one more $490,180 roster charge. Spurs now $7,843,793 under the cap. A little more money to work with, but still not enough for AK & Pendergraph.

6. At this point, what's the point? Salary dumping Joseph is only going to get you another $700k or so because the Spurs would get hit with another roster charge. $8.5 mil of cap space is probably the salary AK is hoping for, and that still doesn't take into account Pendergraph. Not to mention the Spurs will have had to dump 6 players to get here, with having to orchestrate as many as 3 separate salary dump trades with 3 separate teams. Way too complicated to put it all together, and probably not even worth it at this point.

Conclusion: The Spurs aren't getting AK by signing him outright. It's S&T or bust. Since it's S&T or bust, there's really no point in trying to get under the cap.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Conclusion: The Spurs aren't getting AK by signing him outright. It's S&T or bust. Since it's S&T or bust, there's really no point in trying to get under the cap.

Or the fact that no team at this point has more than the MLE to offer AK, the Spurs can just use the MLE on AK to sign him straight up.

[Sean Cagney]

But it doesn't sound as if you are stating your opinion that he won't be here (at least from the way I look at it) - but more of a matter of fact. Especially, when you add in the derogatory remarks towards those that are still holding out a small glimmer of hope.

As it stands, you are more likely to be correct considering the difficulties that we face in bringing AK aboard - but nothing is definitive to this point. I get the pessimistic stance that you are taking and I respect it - but I have to side with those on the optimistic side (I know that I'm torturing myself). I'll hold out hope until something is made official.

If not, I hope that the Spurs move on to plan B to fix that glaring hole at backup SF as well.Small glimmer of hope is just that, small! I will chose to focus on other moves they can make and are rumored to be on the table or just wait it out. I am not that hurt if they don't get AK either! I still think they can get a SF in here before the season and will keep hope alive there (Not just focused on AK though becuase it looks that ship sailed right now). Me and you agree on that last part there. I just don't want to get my hopes up that is all, too many times I did and got crushed or just let down (Finals this year I tried not to get hopes up but I did lol :().

I respect your stance and hold out some hope for him to get here, if not plan B must be in effect by now and they are moving on.

[Kindergarten Cop]

All data from Sham.

Spurs have $41,666,028 in committed salaries (TP, TD, Diaw, Bonner, Green, Leonard, Decolo, Mills, Joseph, Baynes)
Spurs have $30,642,049 in cap holds for Manu, Tiago, Blair, Neal, and LJC's rookie scale slot. (not counting all the cap holds for the ghosts of Robert Horry, Nick Van Exel, etc..)

Spurs current salary cap figure is $72,308,077

1. Re-signing Manu adds $6,746,988 to salary, removes $19,136,250 cap hold. Cap figure would be at $59,918,815; $1,239,815 over the cap.

2. Renouncing rights to Blair, Neal and getting the agreement with LJC that he's not coming this year removes $4,012,199 of cap holds. Spurs now $2,772,384 under the cap.

3. Amnestying Bonner would remove $3,945,000 of salary, but add a $490,180 cap hold because the Spurs will have fallen below the 12 player roster limit. Spurs now $6,227,204 under the cap. Probably not enough to get AK. Definitely not enough to get AK and $2 mil for Pendergraph.

4. The Spurs could salary dump DeColo. Subtracts $1,463,000 of salary, but adds another $490,180 roster charge for falling another player below the 12 player limit. Spurs now $7,200,024 under the cap. Probably getting in the ballpark for AK, but still not enough to get AK and pay $2 mil for Pendergraph.

5. The Spurs could salary dump Mills. Subtracts $1,133,950 of salary, but creates one more $490,180 roster charge. Spurs now $7,843,793 under the cap. A little more money to work with, but still not enough for AK & Pendergraph.

6. At this point, what's the point? Salary dumping Joseph is only going to get you another $700k or so because the Spurs would get hit with another roster charge. $8.5 mil of cap space is probably the salary AK is hoping for, and that still doesn't take into account Pendergraph. Not to mention the Spurs will have had to dump 6 players to get here, with having to orchestrate as many as 3 separate salary dump trades with 3 separate teams. Way too complicated to put it all together, and probably not even worth it at this point.

Conclusion: The Spurs aren't getting AK by signing him outright. It's S&T or bust. Since it's S&T or bust, there's really no point in trying to get under the cap.

Thanks for taking the time to spell this all out for us. :toast

[Sean Cagney]

Or the fact that no team at this point has more than the MLE to offer AK, the Spurs can just use the MLE on AK to sign him straight up.We don't have the MLE anymore from what some have said? I thought we wasted most of that on Pendy and Belli?
Thanks for taking the time to spell this all out for us. :toast

I concur, that was a great post.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Small glimmer of hope is just that, small! I will chose to focus on other moves they can make and are rumored to be on the table or just wait it out. I am not that hurt if they don't get AK either! I still think they can get a SF in here before the season and will keep hope alive there (Not just focused on AK though becuase it looks that ship sailed right now). Me and you agree on that last part there. I just don't want to get my hopes up that is all, too many times I did and got crushed or just let down (Finals this year I tried not to get hopes up but I did lol :().

I respect your stance and hold out some hope for him to get here, if not plan B must be in effect by now and they are moving on.

:toast

[RD2191]

:music

[coyotes_geek]

Or the fact that no team at this point has more than the MLE to offer AK, the Spurs can just use the MLE on AK to sign him straight up.

Cleveland can still beat an MLE offer, as can Atlanta and Charlotte (assuming they amnesty Tyrus Thomas). Maybe Detroit too. I'm sure AK would like to play for a contender, but there are still teams out there that might be able to buy his way out of that preference. Not to mention there's still "the Pendergraph contract conundrum".

I'd feel a lot better about the AK for MLE scenario if we find out that Jeff McDonald is a dumbass and confused a 2yr league min deal which would be $2 mil total for a 2 year deal that paid him $2 mil per.

[timvp]

All data from Sham.

Spurs have $41,666,028 in committed salaries (TP, TD, Diaw, Bonner, Green, Leonard, Decolo, Mills, Joseph, Baynes)
Spurs have $30,642,049 in cap holds for Manu, Tiago, Blair, Neal, and LJC's rookie scale slot. (not counting all the cap holds for the ghosts of Robert Horry, Nick Van Exel, etc..)

Spurs current salary cap figure is $72,308,077

1. Re-signing Manu adds $6,746,988 to salary, removes $19,136,250 cap hold. Cap figure would be at $59,918,815; $1,239,815 over the cap.

2. Renouncing rights to Blair, Neal and getting the agreement with LJC that he's not coming this year removes $4,012,199 of cap holds. Spurs now $2,772,384 under the cap.

3. Amnestying Bonner would remove $3,945,000 of salary, but add a $490,180 cap hold because the Spurs will have fallen below the 12 player roster limit. Spurs now $6,227,204 under the cap. Probably not enough to get AK. Definitely not enough to get AK and $2 mil for Pendergraph.

4. The Spurs could salary dump DeColo. Subtracts $1,463,000 of salary, but adds another $490,180 roster charge for falling another player below the 12 player limit. Spurs now $7,200,024 under the cap. Probably getting in the ballpark for AK, but still not enough to get AK and pay $2 mil for Pendergraph.

5. The Spurs could salary dump Mills. Subtracts $1,133,950 of salary, but creates one more $490,180 roster charge. Spurs now $7,843,793 under the cap. A little more money to work with, but still not enough for AK & Pendergraph.

6. At this point, what's the point? Salary dumping Joseph is only going to get you another $700k or so because the Spurs would get hit with another roster charge. $8.5 mil of cap space is probably the salary AK is hoping for, and that still doesn't take into account Pendergraph. Not to mention the Spurs will have had to dump 6 players to get here, with having to orchestrate as many as 3 separate salary dump trades with 3 separate teams. Way too complicated to put it all together, and probably not even worth it at this point.

Conclusion: The Spurs aren't getting AK by signing him outright. It's S&T or bust. Since it's S&T or bust, there's really no point in trying to get under the cap.

Great post, thanks.

My only note is that there is still a slight bit of hope that Pendergraph signed for the minimum. There is also hope that Ginobili's contract is smaller than the reported amount (like it was with Duncan and McDyess before him).

But, yeah, AK47 is a very difficult get right now for the Spurs.

[Sean Cagney]

Cleveland can still beat an MLE offer, as can Atlanta and Charlotte (assuming they amnesty Tyrus Thomas). Maybe Detroit too. I'm sure AK would like to play for a contender, but there are still teams out there that might be able to buy his way out of that preference.

We don't have our MLE left though correct? I thought we used most of it.

[Kindergarten Cop]

We don't have our MLE left though correct? I thought we used most of it.

Some are still holding out hope, since nothing is official yet, that Belinelli has signed for the room exception and Pendergraph has signed a minimum deal - leaving us with the full MLE.

[Sean Cagney]

Some are still holding out hope, since nothing is official yet, that Belinelli has signed for the room exception and Pendergraph has signed a minimum deal - leaving us with the full MLE.

I have to see this for myself to believe it. That would be great but we have to wait for the word to come out and how much they signed for. I hope you are right and that would be nice.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I have to see this for myself to believe it. That would be great but we have to wait for the word to come out and how much they signed for. I hope you are right and that would be nice.

You do find it interesting that nothing has been announced yet regarding these deals, no?

[Sean Cagney]

You do find it interesting that nothing has been announced yet regarding these deals, no?

I don't look too much into it really, hope something is brewing because we have way too many similar 2 guards on this team right now.

It could mean alot or it could mean absolutely nothing or something they are up to that we found out was close and fell through! Too many variables here.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Cleveland can still beat an MLE offer, as can Atlanta and Charlotte (assuming they amnesty Tyrus Thomas). Maybe Detroit too. I'm sure AK would like to play for a contender, but there are still teams out there that might be able to buy his way out of that preference.

Atlanta could, but the fact they want to acquire Jennings from the Bucks for a S&T for Teague, that trade will eliminate the extra cap they have right now. Cleveland can't unless they cut their bench players (3 guaranteed) and in doing so, they would essentially erase their Room and MLE just to sign AK while cutting 3 servicable bench players and still wanting to resign Daniel Gibson.

Charlotte, do you think AK would honestly go to the Bobcats. I think that is a 1 in a million shot right there. Bobcats are about 8mil under the cap right now. Spurs can sign AK for the MLE for 5mil w/ PO. He opts out, Spurs extend him for 6mil a year for 3 years. So do you think Kirilenko would chose the Bobcats over the Spurs for 9 mil more over four years. At this point in his career, I don't think he would. Couple with the Fact Texas has no state tax, subtract another 2mil off the 9mil.

[rjv]

You do find it interesting that nothing has been announced yet regarding these deals, no?

everyone seems to forget the CIA rep of the spurs

[Kindergarten Cop]

I'm not putting too much stock into this source, but they are reporting that the TWolves have officially signed Martin and "retained" Brewer.

http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nba/Andrei_Kirilenko/2942672/timberwolves-officially-sign-martin-retain-brewer

[spurraider21]

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/m/image/1281/35/1281351891588.jpg

:lol look who'se talking. nice edit 15 minutes later

[coyotes_geek]

Great post, thanks.

My only note is that there is still a slight bit of hope that Pendergraph signed for the minimum. There is also hope that Ginobili's contract is smaller than the reported amount (like it was with Duncan and McDyess before him).

But, yeah, AK47 is a very difficult get right now for the Spurs.

Pendergraph on a league min deal would certainly make things a lot easier. A 2yr league min deal is damn near $2 mil total on the nose, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that McDonald confused $2 total for $2 per year.

It would be so incredibly simple for the Spurs to hide some guaranteed money for Manu on the '15-'16 cap year to buy themselves some extra cap room this offseason, so if the Spurs really are giving everything to Manu over 2 years, then that's a pretty telltale sign they were never planning on going for capspace this year.

[Sean Cagney]

Atlanta could, but the fact they want to acquire Jennings from the Bucks for a S&T for Teague, that trade will eliminate the extra cap they have right now. Cleveland can't unless they cut their bench players (3 guaranteed) and in doing so, they would essentially erase their Room and MLE just to sign AK while cutting 3 servicable bench players and still wanting to resign Daniel Gibson.

Charlotte, do you think AK would honestly go to the Bobcats. I think that is a 1 in a million shot right there. Bobcats are about 8mil under the cap right now. Spurs can sign AK for the MLE for 5mil w/ PO. He opts out, Spurs extend him for 6mil a year for 3 years. So do you think Kirilenko would chose the Bobcats over the Spurs for 9 mil more over four years. At this point in his career, I don't think he would. Couple with the Fact Texas has no state tax, subtract another 2mil off the 9mil.

How do you know the Spurs have this much to spend still? You are sure they have the FULL MLE left? If so how? You seem to know more than us about the MLE being left.
everyone seems to forget the CIA rep of the spurs

That is either they are CIA beneath all the scenes or they will just say we like what we have and stand pat and say we got this far and were withing one game of the finals victory last year so we will stand pat and add these two new parts! I can see that happening there and nothing else in reality.

[coyotes_geek]

Atlanta could, but the fact they want to acquire Jennings from the Bucks for a S&T for Teague, that trade will eliminate the extra cap they have right now. Cleveland can't unless they cut their bench players (3 guaranteed) and in doing so, they would essentially erase their Room and MLE just to sign AK while cutting 3 servicable bench players and still wanting to resign Daniel Gibson.

Charlotte, do you think AK would honestly go to the Bobcats. I think that is a 1 in a million shot right there. Bobcats are about 8mil under the cap right now. Spurs can sign AK for the MLE for 5mil w/ PO. He opts out, Spurs extend him for 6mil a year for 3 years. So do you think Kirilenko would chose the Bobcats over the Spurs for 9 mil more over four years. At this point in his career, I don't think he would. Couple with the Fact Texas has no state tax, subtract another 2mil off the 9mil.

No doubt that AK is running out of suitors, but it only takes one to buy him off. I don't see the appeal of playing in Charlotte either, but then I'm not the one who would potentially be making the decision to walk away from a shitload of money.

[timvp]

The theory saying AK would only want to sign with a contender is shaky at best considering he signed with the Timberwolves last season...

[spurraider21]

Pendergraph being league minimum helps because it doesn't affect anything we want to do. he can be the last official signing after everything else is set an done. you ALWAYS have the vets minimum at your disposal, regardless of cap situation

[Chinook]

Pendergraph being league minimum helps because it doesn't affect anything we want to do. he can be the last official signing after everything else is set an done. you ALWAYS have the vets minimum at your disposal, regardless of cap situation

Except when you have the hard cap of the apron as a result of using the full MLE.

[spurraider21]

Except when you have the hard cap of the apron as a result of using the full MLE.
true, but that's not going to be an issue

[Leetonidas]

:lol look who'se talking. nice edit 15 minutes later

the original picture i posted couldnt be hotlinked tard

[Kindergarten Cop]

The theory saying AK would only want to sign with a contender is shaky at best considering he signed with the Timberwolves last season...

I'm not saying that they were "Championship" contenders before the season began, but before a lot of their injuries there were a lot of experts putting their eggs in the TWolves playoff basket. I, myself, think that a healthy Love/Rubio would have given Minnesota a great chance of beating out one of the Lakers/Rockets for the 7/8 spot.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

How do you know the Spurs have this much to spend still? You are sure they have the FULL MLE left? If so how? You seem to know more than us about the MLE being left.

They haven't officially signed anyone at this. They can turn the Belinelli and Pendergraph signings into S&T from the Bulls and Indy, which would allow them to still have the Full MLE. Last year all the signings of the Spurs were offically announce the 1st day pretty much. This year, ZERO.

Its just like the Iguodala signing from GS. At first, the Nuggest balked at a S&T, which basically left GS with no MLE. Denver decided getting Foye and a pick was worth the S&T to GS which then allowed GS to use their MLE. Same with the Spurs, they can contact the Bulls and Indy and workout a S&T to acquiring these players opening the MLE for them, since with Manu, Splitter Marco and Pendergraph signings and Neal's tender, the Spurs will only be sitting at about 64 mil of salaries, which far below the tax line which will allow them to still use their full MLE.

Spurs probably realized with everyone except the Bobcats at this point using their Cap Space, the Spurs can now match any playoff contending teams offer of the Service for Kirilenko. So screw Flip, Spurs now just need to work on S&T trading for Belinelli and Pendergraph with the Bulls and Pacers so that they can still have their Full MLE to sign Kirilenko.

[Sean Cagney]

They haven't officially signed anyone at this. They can turn the Belinelli and Pendergraph signings into S&T from the Bulls and Indy, which would allow them to still have the Full MLE. Last year all the signings of the Spurs were offically announce the 1st day pretty much. This year, ZERO.

Its just like the Iguodala signing from GS. At first, the Nuggest balked at a S&T, which basically left GS with no MLE. Denver decided getting Foye and a pick was worth the S&T to GS which then allowed GS to use their MLE. Same with the Spurs, they can contact the Bulls and Indy and workout a S&T to acquiring these players opening the MLE for them, since with Manu, Splitter Marco and Pendergraph signings and Neal's tender, the Spurs will only be sitting at about 64 mil of salaries, which far below the tax line which will allow them to still use their full MLE.

Spurs probably realized with everyone except the Bobcats at this point using their Cap Space, the Spurs can now match any playoff contending teams offer of the Service for Kirilenko. So screw Flip, Spurs now just need to work on S&T trading for Belinelli and Pendergraph with the Bulls and Pacers so that they can still have their Full MLE to sign Kirilenko.

Thats alot of speculation and IFS right there man, have to wait and see what officially happens when they sign.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Thats alot of speculation and IFS right there man, have to wait and see what officially happens when they sign.

It is, but it is VERY MUCH a possibility and being that the Spurs haven't officially signed anyone, it means they pulling out all the cards to make the numbers work so they can obviously acquire another player at this point in time.

[coyotes_geek]

They haven't officially signed anyone at this. They can turn the Belinelli and Pendergraph signings into S&T from the Bulls and Indy, which would allow them to still have the Full MLE. Last year all the signings of the Spurs were offically announce the 1st day pretty much. This year, ZERO.

Its just like the Iguodala signing from GS. At first, the Nuggest balked at a S&T, which basically left GS with no MLE. Denver decided getting Foye and a pick was worth the S&T to GS which then allowed GS to use their MLE. Same with the Spurs, they can contact the Bulls and Indy and workout a S&T to acquiring these players opening the MLE for them, since with Manu, Splitter Marco and Pendergraph signings and Neal's tender, the Spurs will only be sitting at about 64 mil of salaries, which far below the tax line which will allow them to still use their full MLE.

Spurs probably realized with everyone except the Bobcats at this point using their Cap Space, the Spurs can now match any playoff contending teams offer of the Service for Kirilenko. So screw Flip, Spurs now just need to work on S&T trading for Belinelli and Pendergraph with the Bulls and Pacers so that they can still have their Full MLE to sign Kirilenko.

The Spurs can only use the MLE if they're over the cap. If they're over the cap they can't make a trade that adds Belinelli or Pendergraph without them having to send salary out somewhere because the salary matching requirements would apply. Chicago's a luxury tax payer, so they're certainly not going to want to take any salary back from the Spurs. Indiana probably isn't going to be interested either.

[bluebellmaniac]

The Spurs can only use the MLE if they're over the cap. If they're over the cap they can't make a trade that adds Belinelli or Pendergraph without them having to send salary out somewhere because the salary matching requirements would apply. Chicago's a luxury tax payer, so they're certainly not going to want to take any salary back from the Spurs. Indiana probably isn't going to be interested either.
True. It would take a third team to receive those players. Picks (protected or not) would flow to Indy and Chi as compensation.

[rjv]

That is either they are CIA beneath all the scenes or they will just say we like what we have and stand pat and say we got this far and were withing one game of the finals victory last year so we will stand pat and add these two new parts! I can see that happening there and nothing else in reality.

quite possibly-but given the system that the spurs have used with such great success, it may be hard to argue against their logic. other than the heat's mega summer with the unprecedented signings of 3 marquee players i can not recall teams having too much success with their "big splashes" in the off season. most teams that have made it to the top have done so through the draft and the acquisition of solid role players.

[Sean Cagney]

It is, but it is VERY MUCH a possibility and being that the Spurs haven't officially signed anyone, it means they pulling out all the cards to make the numbers work so they can obviously acquire another player at this point in time.
Yes but it is AK or is it somone else on their radar?
quite possibly-but given the system that the spurs have used with such great success, it may be hard to argue against their logic. other than the heat's mega summer with the unprecedented signings of 3 marquee players i can not recall teams having too much success with their "big splashes" in the off season. most teams that have made it to the top have done so through the draft and the acquisition of solid role players.
You are right, but we still need a backup SF on this team and we have too many guards in the log jam right now. If they were going to bring back Neal why did they go sign another guard? Makes no sense right now.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

The Spurs can only use the MLE if they're over the cap. If they're over the cap they can't make a trade that adds Belinelli or Pendergraph without them having to send salary out somewhere because the salary matching requirements would apply. Chicago's a luxury tax payer, so they're certainly not going to want to take any salary back from the Spurs. Indiana probably isn't going to be interested either.

Bulls just waived Richard Hamilton so they are under the Tax and can take on a player. Pacers are well below the Tax line and could take on another player as well. Salaries don't have to Match. Spurs can take on more salaries than given up b/c they weren't a Luxury Tax team last year.

Spurs could throw in a 2nd round pick as well if need be. I forgot how much 2nd round picks are worth like $500,000 are something like that in trade value.

[LarryDavid]

I love the offseason.

[spurraider21]

I love the offseason.

a 30 page thread after an article says talks are over :lol

we the best!

[edmon]

All data from Sham.

Spurs have $41,666,028 in committed salaries (TP, TD, Diaw, Bonner, Green, Leonard, Decolo, Mills, Joseph, Baynes)
Spurs have $30,642,049 in cap holds for Manu, Tiago, Blair, Neal, and LJC's rookie scale slot. (not counting all the cap holds for the ghosts of Robert Horry, Nick Van Exel, etc..)

Spurs current salary cap figure is $72,308,077

1. Re-signing Manu adds $6,746,988 to salary, removes $19,136,250 cap hold. Cap figure would be at $59,918,815; $1,239,815 over the cap.

2. Renouncing rights to Blair, Neal and getting the agreement with LJC that he's not coming this year removes $4,012,199 of cap holds. Spurs now $2,772,384 under the cap.

3. Amnestying Bonner would remove $3,945,000 of salary, but add a $490,180 cap hold because the Spurs will have fallen below the 12 player roster limit. Spurs now $6,227,204 under the cap. Probably not enough to get AK. Definitely not enough to get AK and $2 mil for Pendergraph.

4. The Spurs could salary dump DeColo. Subtracts $1,463,000 of salary, but adds another $490,180 roster charge for falling another player below the 12 player limit. Spurs now $7,200,024 under the cap. Probably getting in the ballpark for AK, but still not enough to get AK and pay $2 mil for Pendergraph.

5. The Spurs could salary dump Mills. Subtracts $1,133,950 of salary, but creates one more $490,180 roster charge. Spurs now $7,843,793 under the cap. A little more money to work with, but still not enough for AK & Pendergraph.

6. At this point, what's the point? Salary dumping Joseph is only going to get you another $700k or so because the Spurs would get hit with another roster charge. $8.5 mil of cap space is probably the salary AK is hoping for, and that still doesn't take into account Pendergraph. Not to mention the Spurs will have had to dump 6 players to get here, with having to orchestrate as many as 3 separate salary dump trades with 3 separate teams. Way too complicated to put it all together, and probably not even worth it at this point.

Conclusion: The Spurs aren't getting AK by signing him outright. It's S&T or bust. Since it's S&T or bust, there's really no point in trying to get under the cap.


Thanks for puttin that all in one place. Do we know the impact of Tiago's contract(less cap hold) yet?

[raybies]

So with minny doing a sign and trade with Okc, that leaves the mle for brewer. Does this leave a s&t with us open?

[rayray2k8]

Looks like the day is over.. Will wait and find out tomorrow for anything new. Surprised the spurs haven't made any signings yet.
Wonder what could be holding it up?

[Sean Cagney]

Looks like the day is over.. Will wait and find out tomorrow for anything new. Surprised the spurs haven't made any signings yet.
Wonder what could be holding it up?

Something is, but knowing the SPURS it is nothing like we are thinking or speculating in here.

[LarryDavid]

a 30 page thread after an article says talks are over :lol

we the best!

Can't blame people until the contracts are signed. There's still a window of opportunity. An 8 second window, but sometimes that's all you need...

[SpurPadre]

Something is, but knowing the SPURS it is nothing like we are thinking or speculating in here.

A real nice pipe dream would involve Lamarcus Aldridge demanding to be traded and we somehow work out a deal for him...but that is the most delusional outcome possible and so I'm just thinking of what we might go after in the days leading up to the trade deadline.

[coyotes_geek]

Bulls just waived Richard Hamilton so they are under the Cap and can take on a player.

False. They're still over the tax even after cutting Hamilton.


Pacer's are well below the Tax line and could take on another player as well.

They could, but why would they want to? Who are the Spurs going to give up that makes it worth their while?


Salaries don't have to Match. Spurs can take on more salaries than given up b/c they weren't a Luxury Tax team last year.

Salaries do have to match. Being a taxpayer just means the percentage teams have to get within is narrower than it is for nontaxpayers. For both Belinelli and Pendergraph, the Spurs would be limited to taking back 150%+$100k of what they sent out. That means to add Pendergraph at a $2 mil salary the Spurs would have to send out at least $1.26 in salary. That's De Colo. For Beilinelli at $2.5 mil salary, they'd have to send out $1.6. That's Mills + Baynes.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82


Spurs could throw in a 2nd round pick as well if need be. I forgot how much 2nd round picks are worth like $500,000 are something like that in trade value.

Draft picks count as $0 in trade value. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q85

[rjv]

For both Belinelli and Pendergraph, the Spurs would be limited to taking back 150%+$100k of what they sent out. That means to add Pendergraph at a $2 mil salary the Spurs would have to send out at least $1.26 in salary. That's De Colo. For Beilinelli at $2.5 mil salary, they'd have to send out $1.6. That's Mills + Baynes.



seems weird to say but i'd hate to lose baynes just yet

[Bruno]

I'm not sure how Bucks will make the Ridnour trade work while making the offer sheet to Teague. I guess they would amnestied Gooden, keep Jennings rights and wait 3 days before signing some of the players they agreed contracts with. If Atlanta doesn't match Teague offer, they will then renounce at Jennings and sign their new players. This scenario will require free agents being fine with waiting 3 days before signing their new contracts.

Regarding Pendergraph, and idea thrown by another poster few days ago (I don't remember who it is, sorry) but it's possible he and Spurs have agreed in principle to two different contracts. The first one would be a 2 years min contract for a total of about $2M with a player option on the second year. The second one would be a 2 years $4M total contract with Spurs having a team option on the second year. It would explain why Woj didn't report numbers for that agreement and the McDonald report of $4M.

[Sean Cagney]

False. They're still over the tax even after cutting Hamilton.



They could, but why would they want to? Who are the Spurs going to give up that makes it worth their while?



Salaries do have to match. Being a taxpayer just means the percentage teams have to get within is narrower than it is for nontaxpayers. For both Belinelli and Pendergraph, the Spurs would be limited to taking back 150%+$100k of what they sent out. That means to add Pendergraph at a $2 mil salary the Spurs would have to send out at least $1.26 in salary. That's De Colo. For Beilinelli at $2.5 mil salary, they'd have to send out $1.6. That's Mills + Baynes.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82



Draft picks count as $0 in trade value. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q85
Thank you sir!

[Chinook]

I'm not sure how Bucks will make the Ridnour trade work while making the offer sheet to Teague. I guess they would amnestied Gooden, keep Jennings rights and wait 3 days before signing some of the players they agreed contracts with. If Atlanta doesn't match Teague offer, they will then renounce at Jennings and sign their new players. This scenario will require free agents being fine with waiting 3 days before signing their new contracts.

Regarding Pendergraph, and idea thrown by another poster few days ago (I don't remember who it is, sorry) but it's possible he and Spurs have agreed in principle to two different contracts. The first one would be a 2 years min contract for a total of about $2M with a player option on the second year. The second one would be a 2 years $4M total contract with Spurs having a team option on the second year. It would explain why Woj didn't report numbers for that agreement and the McDonald report of $4M.

Who would agree to take themselves off the market so early for a two-year minimum deal? If anything, I'd think it'd be the other way around. Where he'd get a $4M/2 deal or a $2M/2 deal with a player option after the first year.

[coyotes_geek]

I've solved the Pendergraph problem. Pendergraph's conscious gets the better of him and he concedes that's he's just a league min player.

On a completely unrelated note, tune in this fall for San Antonio's newest reality show, "Pine Time with Pendergraph", starring Jeff Pendergraph. Brought to you by Valero and H.E.B. San Antonians, buy our gas and brisket, because you fucking owe us!!!

[Bruno]

Who would agree to take themselves off the market so early for a two-year minimum deal? If anything, I'd think it'd be the other way around. Where he'd get a $4M/2 deal or a $2M/2 deal with a player option after the first year.

That's what I said. Either $2M total with a player option or $4M total with a team option.

[TheGoldStandard]

I've solved the Pendergraph problem. Pendergraph's conscious gets the better of him and he concedes that's he's just a league min player.

On a completely unrelated note, tune in this fall for San Antonio's newest reality show, "Pine Time with Pendergraph", starring Jeff Pendergraph. Brought to you by Valero and H.E.B. San Antonians, buy our gas and brisket, because you fucking owe us!!!

Hahaha..

[Chinook]

That's what I said. Either $2M total with a player option or $4M total with a team option.

Indeed you did. I didn't see where you said that. Never mind my objection then.

Still seems sort of far-fetched that he'd risk getting half compensation. But maybe having his coach on board could convince him otherwise?

The Pacers seem like the easiest team to execute a sign-and-trade with, anyhow. They need competent guards.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

False. They're still over the tax even after cutting Hamilton.



They could, but why would they want to? Who are the Spurs going to give up that makes it worth their while?



Salaries do have to match. Being a taxpayer just means the percentage teams have to get within is narrower than it is for nontaxpayers. For both Belinelli and Pendergraph, the Spurs would be limited to taking back 150%+$100k of what they sent out. That means to add Pendergraph at a $2 mil salary the Spurs would have to send out at least $1.26 in salary. That's De Colo. For Beilinelli at $2.5 mil salary, they'd have to send out $1.6. That's Mills + Baynes.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82



Draft picks count as $0 in trade value. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q85

Bulls are right at the Tax line, but the fact that they have only 10 players under contract, they are going to have to acquire 3 more players anyways.

And just to let you know Decolo is schedule to make 1.46 mil this year and Mills and Baynes a combined 1.9mil. Spurs have also 3.2 mil in Cash they can payout in trades this year. so they could give the Bulls and Pacers the cash to buyout and waive and players they took on in the trade if they wanted to waive them. The fact that Pendergraph and Marco's contracts are so small, the Spurs have alot of scenarios to make a S&T easily work.

The Spurs have alot of avenues they can take to acquire Belinelli and Pendergraph and still keep their full MLE.

[Sean Cagney]

Bulls are right at the Tax line, but the fact that they have only 10 players under contract, they are going to have to acquire 3 more players anyways.

And just to let you know Decolo is schedule to make 1.46 mil this year and Mills and Baynes a combined 1.9mil. Spurs have also 3.2 mil in Cash they can payout in trades this year. so they could give the Bulls and Pacers the cash to buyout and waive and players they took on in the trade if they wanted to waive them. The fact that Pendergraph and Marco's contracts are so small, the Spurs have alot of scenarios to make a S&T easily work.

The Spurs have alot of avenues they can take to acquire Belinelli and Pendergraph and still keep their full MLE.

Full MLE for who though? If not AK then who? FA's are running thin out there and we don't know if the SPURS kept their FULL MLE yet at all. I keep seeing that in this thread, but it's all speculation at this point here.

[Kindergarten Cop]

FWIW, I hadn't heard any other teams expressing interest other than San Antonio and Cleveland - but according to this site, both OKC and Brooklyn have expressed interest in trading for AK47.

http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/nba-free-agency-2013-brooklyn-nets-not-near-deal-with-andrei-kirilenko/

I don't know if the OKC interest is accurate, or the author had heard of OKC's trade speculation with Minnesota (Martin for a TE) and assumed that they were targeting Kirilenko.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Full MLE for who though? If not AK then who? FA's are running thin out there and we don't know if the SPURS kept their FULL MLE yet at all. I keep seeing that in this thread, but it's all speculation at this point here.

We don't know. We won't know what the Spurs have officially done until all these players sign on the bottom line and the smoke clears. My guess is it's for AK. Now that most of the FA having been signed no team can offer AK more than the MLE. Not even the Bobcats as I didn't realize that had a 4.3 million Qualifying offer to Henderson which pushes their salaries at this point to 53 mil.

So I am curious as you as what the Spurs want to do at this point, but the consensus is they are trying to sign AK to the roster this year, which is more than likely the case right now.

[Chinook]

Brooklyn has no more future to trade away for old players. AK would have to take the mMLE to go over there, and even then they don't need him.

[spursince#99]

FWIW, I hadn't heard any other teams expressing interest other than San Antonio and Cleveland - but according to this site, both OKC and Brooklyn have expressed interest in trading for AK47.

http://fansided.com/2013/07/10/nba-free-agency-2013-brooklyn-nets-not-near-deal-with-andrei-kirilenko/

I don't know if the OKC interest is accurate, or the author had heard of OKC's trade speculation with Minnesota (Martin for a TE) and assumed that they were targeting Kirilenko.


Try again.

[Leetonidas]

But Brooklyn doesn't seem to give a shit who they get as long as they have a big name, plus their owner is Russian, so who knows. They obviously don't care about payroll or luxury tax

[Kindergarten Cop]

Try again.

:huh

[bluebellmaniac]

31 pages of speculation.... wow. Just woke up... are we any closer? Do we know anything yet? Any hints as to if we are in good position?

[apalisoc_9]

31 pages of speculation.... wow. Just woke up... are we any closer? Do we know anything yet? Any hints as to if we are in good position?

Still possible but highly unlikely.

[Texas_Ranger]

what is the highest number of pages for a guy that on the end did not come to the Spurs?

[bluebellmaniac]

what is the highest number of pages for a guy that on the end did not come to the Spurs?
There was that big thread after we traded Paul George. Does that count?

[jesterbobman]

what is the highest number of pages for a guy that on the end did not come to the Spurs?

Scola thread.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

At this point, I'd be happy to see the Spurs just sign a serviceable back-up SF.

[bluebellmaniac]

Scola thread.

Most likely. In the big 3 era, there hasn't been any real drooling over anyone. We haven't had the need.

On the other hand, there have been far more long threads that have wanted to get rid of a Spur.... Red Rocket, HWMNBN, Blair, Pop, etc...

[Russ]

what is the highest number of pages for a guy that on the end did not come to the Spurs?

This site may not have been up yet, but Chris Webber in 2001 spun off a lot of pages.

And Jason Kidd in 2003.

[bluebellmaniac]

At this point, I'd be happy to see the Spurs just sign a serviceable back-up SF.

Pendergraph playing spot minutes would probably be the best we could do at this point. Who is still avail? If anyone is avail, it'd be someone none of us had thought about.

Keep believing...

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

I suppose you're right, also, I suppose Belinelli could eat 4 of those 8 minutes at SF, and maybe Green or Manu eat 2 each.

Something tells me they'll sign someone out of blue, like you said. Either that or they'll see someone they like in the SL, doesn't have to be someone on our team.

[Bruno]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/215012161.html


The Wolves cleared enough salary-cap space for Brewer’s three-year, $15 million contract by reaching agreement on a sign-and-trade with Oklahoma City for free-agent signee Kevin Martin and by sending Ridnour and his $4.3 million salary back to the Bucks without accepting any salaries in return.

Both trades are contingent on Brewer and Ridnour passing physical exams as soon as Thursday.



Kirilenko opted out of a $10.2 million option for this season two days after last month’s draft and became an unrestricted free agent in search of a three- or four-year contract, which, at age 32, would be the last big one of his long career.

The Wolves declined overtures from San Antonio for a sign-and-trade deal that would have cleared enough money on the Spurs payroll to sign Kirilenko to a multiyear deal worth $8 million or more a year.

The Wolves approached Kirilenko and his agent on Tuesday about returning to the team at a reduced salary from last season’s. When they refused to consider such an offer, one of the two league sources said, the Wolves turned their attention toward acquiring Brewer.

If this article is accurate, Minny will renounce to Kirilenko Bird rights today and then making a possible S&T officially impossible.

I do hope that Spurs have as plan B to sign Kirilenko with some cap space and haven't screw that for Jeff Pendergraph.

[mudyez]

At this point, I'd be happy to see the Spurs just sign a serviceable back-up SF.

I'm not the biggest T-Mac supporter, but right now I'm all for him tutoring KL, playing 10-12 minutes per game and beeing kind of an injury ensurance at the wing.

Bring him back!

[objective]

I do hope that Spurs have as plan B to sign Kirilenko with some cap space and haven't screw that for Jeff Pendergraph.

I'm sure they have screwed it up. I'm not surprised at all that they would choose to get a guy who is going to have 50+ DNP-CDs over the opporunity for a player who Pop could count on to be in a 8-man rotation against the Heat.

And Bonner.

:lol

[99 Problems]

We're going to see if AK47 is really interested in a ring over just $. Simple as that.

option is come to Spurs and have a red hot crack at the big dance or go somewhere and do the same old same old.

[mosdef17]

If this article is accurate, Minny will renounce to Kirilenko Bird rights today and then making a possible S&T officially impossible.

I do hope that Spurs have as plan B to sign Kirilenko with some cap space and haven't screw that for Jeff Pendergraph.

You'd have to assume that we're just not getting him. What would be the supporting arguments for hope to remain? McDonald reported Jeff's contract incorrectly? The reason the signings have not been announced is they're still trying to manoeuvre this? Feels like we're reaching a little bit if that's the case...

[Bruno]

You'd have to assume that we're just not getting him. What would be the supporting arguments for hope to remain? McDonald reported Jeff's contract incorrectly? The reason the signings have not been announced is they're still trying to manoeuvre this? Feels like we're reaching a little bit if that's the case...

There is a difference between hopping and expecting. I for sure agree with you that the most likely by far is Spurs not being able to sign Kirilenko.

My main reason to have some hope is that I don't think Spurs FO is stupid enough to blow their cap space as soon as July 6th on a player as marginal as Pendergraph. It would just be crazy.

[siraulo23]

There is a difference between hopping and expecting. I for sure agree with you that the most likely by far is Spurs not being able to sign Kirilenko.

My main reason to have some hope is that I don't think Spurs FO is stupid enough to blow their cap space as soon as July 6th on a player as marginal as Pendergraph. It would just be crazy.

yeah it doesnt make sense to blow an opportunity to sign a kirilenko just so they could secure pendergraph who's prolly not even gonna crack the rotation any time soon

[objective]

There is a difference between hopping and expecting. I for sure agree with you that the most likely by far is Spurs not being able to sign Kirilenko.

My main reason to have some hope is that I don't think Spurs FO is stupid enough to blow their cap space as soon as July 6th on a player as marginal as Pendergraph. It would just be crazy.

Agree with the first part.

Disagree on the second. I do think they are stupid enough, and crazy enough. Hope I'm wrong . . . but don't expect I'm wrong.

[cd98]

I'm not the biggest T-Mac supporter, but right now I'm all for him tutoring KL, playing 10-12 minutes per game and beeing kind of an injury ensurance at the wing.

Bring him back!

i don't get how anyone thinks T Mac has anything left. Don't waste a roster spot on a guy that's done. If you want him to mentor KL, add him to the coaching staff.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

i don't get how anyone thinks T Mac has anything left. Don't waste a roster spot on a guy that's done. If you want him to mentor KL, add him to the coaching staff.
Based off what?

[K-State Spur]

I'm sure they have screwed it up. I'm not surprised at all that they would choose to get a guy who is going to have 50+ DNP-CDs over the opporunity for a player who Pop could count on to be in a 8-man rotation against the Heat.

And Bonner.

:lol

1) AK47 is coming off a season with ~20 DNPs. I wanted him, but it's not like he's an example of rock solid health.

2) In all of this, we still have no idea how much AK wants to be here and how much he wants to play here.

[exstatic]

Based off what?

Based off the fact the he's been in the league longer than Duncan, plays a wing position that demands athleticism on defense, and has knee issues in his medical history.

[CaptainLate]

They are not deep at defensive wings that are in the top 15 in TS% league-wide. AK will barely play if the other players on the team do what they're supposed to do. Sure, the Spurs can make minutes for him, but that's not necessarily going to be the most beneficial thing for the team in the long run.

And yes, the front office is backing out. That's why talks are done. Otherwise, they'd try to find another way to give Minnesota the trade exception they want.

I'm hoping the Spurs are calling Saunders bluff...and Flip blinks.

[CaptainLate]

But Brooklyn doesn't seem to give a shit who they get as long as they have a big name, plus their owner is Russian, so who knows. They obviously don't care about payroll or luxury tax

Which is why it's nice to have a rich owner...and not a bunch of small towners. A rich owner who had stayed away from a great front office braintrust would have brought another 2-3 titles...or more. We'd be talked about with the Flakers, Bulls and Celtics. But five years from now when fans can't afford ticket prices and the team is headed to some other city that can be suckered into subsidizing an above average team but no longer a title contender, SA fans will have to get used to the fact that 1999-2007 were the glory years.

[K-State Spur]

Based off what?

Stats show ever declining numbers - PER dipped to 13.6 in his last (semi) full season. And that would have been worse still if he hadn't shot a (almost certainly unrepeatable) career high from 3 - 45%.

Eye test says there is just no more lift in his jumper and zero explosiveness in his first step remaining. It's not really time that's robbed him of his game so much as too many injuries.

[exstatic]

Which is why it's nice to have a rich owner...and not a bunch of small towners. A rich owner who had stayed away from a great front office braintrust would have brought another 2-3 titles...or more. We'd be talked about with the Flakers, Bulls and Celtics. But five years from now when fans can't afford ticket prices and the team is headed to some other city that can be suckered into subsidizing an above average team but no longer a title contender, SA fans will have to get used to the fact that 1999-2007 were the glory years.

Spurs are lease locked until either 2028 or 2033, after the 2008 AT&T center upgrades,depending on the original lease duration, 20 or 25 years.

[CaptainLate]

There is a difference between hopping and expecting. I for sure agree with you that the most likely by far is Spurs not being able to sign Kirilenko.

My main reason to have some hope is that I don't think Spurs FO is stupid enough to blow their cap space as soon as July 6th on a player as marginal as Pendergraph. It would just be crazy.

Unless the ex-Pacers coach now with the Spurs, who saw JP daily at practice, convinced the Spurs that JP, with more PT, would be a great addition to the rotation.

[CaptainLate]

Spurs are lease locked until either 2028 or 2033, after the 2008 AT&T center upgrades,depending on the original lease duration, 20 or 25 years.

Contracts mean nothing these days. They are easily bought out.
Money rules...and the gap between the haves and have nots grows wider.

[exstatic]

Contracts mean nothing these days. They are easily bought out.
Money rules...and the gap between the haves and have nots grows wider.

Tell it to the Tampa Rays. Also, there is no way that the Stock Show and Rodeo lets them out.

[CaptainLate]

Tell it to the Tampa Rays. Also, there is no way that the Stock Show and Rodeo lets them out.

You really don't know human nature, do you. God willing, we'll find out in five years which of us will be saying "I told you so!"

[TheWriter]

Which is why it's nice to have a rich owner...and not a bunch of small towners. A rich owner who had stayed away from a great front office braintrust would have brought another 2-3 titles...or more. We'd be talked about with the Flakers, Bulls and Celtics. But five years from now when fans can't afford ticket prices and the team is headed to some other city that can be suckered into subsidizing an above average team but no longer a title contender, SA fans will have to get used to the fact that 1999-2007 were the glory years.

You're an idiot. Just stop posting now.

[Darkwaters]

You really don't know human nature, do you. God willing, we'll find out in five years which of us will be saying "I told you so!"

Hey, if Milwaukee and Charlotte still have teams I doubt San Antonio has anything to worry about. [/discussion]

[TheWriter]

You really don't know human nature, do you. God willing, we'll find out in five years which of us will be saying "I told you so!"


Contracts mean nothing these days. They are easily bought out.
Money rules...and the gap between the haves and have nots grows wider.

Yep. Troll.

[xmas1997]

Question: can the Spurs offer him a 1 year remaining cap space contract for this year with the under the table agreement to offer him a much better long term one next year, or is that illegal under the new CBA?

[Leetonidas]

Contracts mean nothing these days. They are easily bought out.
Money rules...and the gap between the haves and have nots grows wider.
This is an NBA team/stadium contract with the city, not a fucking contract in the NBA. They are not "easily bought out." Are you fucking serious right now? :lmao

[Spur|n|Austin]

Why do I keep coming back to this thread? :grim:

[Leetonidas]

Question: can the Spurs offer him a 1 year remaining cap space contract for this year with the under the table agreement to offer him a much better long term one next year, or is that illegal under the new CBA?

I had asked this earlier and no, apparently he can only receive small eases based on what he earned the season before since we won't have full bird rights after one season. At least that's how I understood it

[cd021]

The theory saying AK would only want to sign with a contender is shaky at best considering he signed with the Timberwolves last season...

He was out of the league for more than a year. Minny had the money to sign him and had a chance to play with two rising stars in Love and Rubio. He also got a 1+1 contract that gave him a $20 million (with an ETA) Its not that he just signed with a garbage team, that's a little misleading IMO.

[elec99]

If they havent announced the signings of manu, jeff, and marco I think it's because they are trying to rework some things.
So here's a question, has any team made an "announcement" prior to the eligible signing dates, and then had to back track on it?

Cmon manu, do us a solid.

[TXstbobcat]

This is an NBA team/stadium contract with the city, not a fucking contract in the NBA. They are not "easily bought out." Are you fucking serious right now? :lmao

I don't see the spurs leaving. The city would do whatever it takes to keep them even if it meant spending Money on upgrading the AT&T center or even building a new arena when the time comes.

[TXstbobcat]

How did this thread go from AK47 to the possibility of the spurs moving?

[xmas1997]

I had asked this earlier and no, apparently he can only receive small eases based on what he earned the season before since we won't have full bird rights after one season. At least that's how I understood it


Then apparently the only thing the Spurs can do at this stage of the game is offer him a contract for the remaining MLE for 2 years and see if he takes it. If he does then he can be rewarded a couple of years later because the Spurs would have his early bird rights and they are one of the few teams that honors that sort of thing and doesn't stiff their players.

[Keepin' it real]

How did this thread go from AK47 to the possibility of the spurs moving?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRM4IOXvPl8vFNsNeChjoUKUytf_X6N ZICYvEyLnLp6Gg5gRrtkX9Y8Suf

[Leetonidas]

Then apparently the only thing the Spurs can do at this stage of the game is offer him a contract for the remaining MLE for 2 years and see if he takes it. If he does then he can be rewarded a couple of years later because the Spurs would have his early bird rights and they are one of the few teams that honors that sort of thing and doesn't stiff their players.

Pretty much. We have to hope now that Beli and Pendergraph haven't been touched by the MLE because if not and Spurs can use the room exception/minimum on them (would make so much more sense considering their salaries/play last season) they will go over the cap and then can use the full MLE on Kirilenko if I understand correctly. And at this point it's looking like that's what he might get, not too many teams seem interested in him and as teams with large cap space dwindle down the chances of the Spurs getting him goes up...but it all depends on what we used on Beli/Pendergraph

[cd021]

1) AK47 is coming off a season with ~20 DNPs. I wanted him, but it's not like he's an example of rock solid health.

2) In all of this, we still have no idea how much AK wants to be here and how much he wants to play here.

157 career DNP's (14 a season) but that is skewed, In 04-05 he missed 41 games. He missed just 6 games in his 1st 3 seasons. He's been fairly healthy overall.

[coyotes_geek]

How did this thread go from AK47 to the possibility of the spurs moving?

I don't know, but I'm sure it has something to do with not amnestying Bonner.

[xmas1997]

Please STOP! with the Spurs are leaving BS, that is for another thread!

[xmas1997]

Pretty much. We have to hope now that Beli and Pendergraph haven't been touched by the MLE because if not and Spurs can use the room exception/minimum on them (would make so much more sense considering their salaries/play last season) they will go over the cap and then can use the full MLE on Kirilenko if I understand correctly. And at this point it's looking like that's what he might get, not too many teams seem interested in him and as teams with large cap space dwindle down the chances of the Spurs getting him goes up...but it all depends on what we used on Beli/Pendergraph

Most (ie. Bruno, etc.) are thinking that maybe the Spurs offered these guys two possible scenerios, MLE or room exception/minimum, to be determined after AK is signed. Don't know if they can do that or not, but why not, and would that not explain why it is taking them so long to announce their signings? They have to wait out all the other teams offers until the well drys up and AK is left with the choice to sign what the Spurs have left or look some where else, some other league, or sit out a year.

[Darkwaters]

Pretty much. We have to hope now that Beli and Pendergraph haven't been touched by the MLE because if not and Spurs can use the room exception/minimum on them (would make so much more sense considering their salaries/play last season) they will go over the cap and then can use the full MLE on Kirilenko if I understand correctly. And at this point it's looking like that's what he might get, not too many teams seem interested in him and as teams with large cap space dwindle down the chances of the Spurs getting him goes up...but it all depends on what we used on Beli/Pendergraph

That seems to be our biggest saving grace to date. Nobody else has really made a move to get him. I'm not sure why, but that alone has kept us in the running.

[xmas1997]

That seems to be our biggest saving grace to date. Nobody else has really made a move to get him. I'm not sure why, but that alone has kept us in the running.

And that would explain why we have heard no Spur announcement yet?

So its the proverbial "hurry up, and wait" game!

Which teams are left with enough money to offer him a contract at this point, regardless of if they are contenders? I read the Cavs were considering offering a contract, but do they have enough money, and if so, can he decline to take less to play with the Spurs since we are a contender?

[Rev Hill]

...and don't forget state income tax factor. Believe Ohio has a state income tax. Add that in and that helps the Spurs somewhat. I'm more worried about Dallas/Cuban. Whether it makes sense for AK to be on that team or not, Cuban usually has a way of ticking we Spurs fans off.

[tesseractive]

And that would explain why we have heard no Spur announcement yet?

So its the proverbial "hurry up, and wait" game!

Which teams are left with enough money to offer him a contract at this point, regardless of if they are contenders? I read the Cavs were considering offering a contract, but do they have enough money, and if so, can he decline to take less to play with the Spurs since we are a contender?

Cavs signed Bynum. Pretty sure they're out of cap space now.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

...and don't forget state income tax factor. Believe Ohio has a state income tax. Add that in and that helps the Spurs somewhat. I'm more worried about Dallas/Cuban. Whether it makes sense for AK to be on that team or not, Cuban usually has a way of ticking we Spurs fans off.

There has been no indication they want to sign him. From latest reports I read, The Mavs still don't want to commit to big long term contracts so they can be major players in the 2014, which is going to be one the best FA in years, and they are currently in talks to resign Brand and Wright.

Mavs are around 50mil in committed Salaries right now with the Ellington, Harris signings and Larkin rookie guarantee contract. At this point, the Mavs have shown no interest, but you never know.

[coyotes_geek]

...and don't forget state income tax factor. Believe Ohio has a state income tax. Add that in and that helps the Spurs somewhat. I'm more worried about Dallas/Cuban. Whether it makes sense for AK to be on that team or not, Cuban usually has a way of ticking we Spurs fans off.

The mavs have bigger problems to worry about right now. Literally, and figuratively. They've already blown most of their cap space on Calderon, Ellington & Harris and they still need a center. Besides, they've still got Shaun Marion. There's no reason for them to be interested in AK.

[Leetonidas]

Most (ie. Bruno, etc.) are thinking that maybe the Spurs offered these guys two possible scenerios, MLE or room exception/minimum, to be determined after AK is signed. Don't know if they can do that or not, but why not, and would that not explain why it is taking them so long to announce their signings? They have to wait out all the other teams offers until the well drys up and AK is left with the choice to sign what the Spurs have left or look some where else, some other league, or sit out a year.

I'm wondering though, I thought the Spurs could only use the MLE if they were over the cap, and with re-signing Manu and Tiago, I thought they were still slightly under it, so how could they split the MLE between two players if it wasn't available to them? Maybe I'm missing something

[ace3g]

I mentioned it a while back but AK should pick the Spurs if he wants to play his former team CSKA Moscow

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/06/24/euroleague-cska-moscow-coming-to-u-s-to-play-san-antonio-spurs-and-minnesota-timberwolves/index.html

[ace3g]

Expected, but...

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)In sign-and-trade of Kevin Martin to Minnesota, OKC will send cash to Wolves as part of deal to create $7M trade exception, sources tell Y!

[Leetonidas]

:pctoss

[cd98]

Wonder who the Thunder might be trying to get.

[bluebellmaniac]

I'm wondering though, I thought the Spurs could only use the MLE if they were over the cap, and with re-signing Manu and Tiago, I thought they were still slightly under it, so how could they split the MLE between two players if it wasn't available to them? Maybe I'm missing something
From my reading of the CBA FAQ, when determining the team's total salary (to see how you can sign a player, but not in a S&T), you add up the valid contracts, cap holds, the MLE AND the bi-Annual exception. If the total is over the salary cap, then they can only use the MLE or the mMLE or the bi-Annual exception. All of those exceptions kick in the hard cap at Luxury Tax + $4M. For a S&T, you do not include the cap holds in the calculation. It gets complicated...

[Budkin]

:pctoss

So the door is officially closed?

[poop]

FUCK BONNER

[ducks]

you really think it is booner fault?

[Carnage&Mayhem]

you really think it is booner fault?
its always bonner's fault

[xmas1997]

Expected, but...

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)In sign-and-trade of Kevin Martin to Minnesota, OKC will send cash to Wolves as part of deal to create $7M trade exception, sources tell Y!





No mention of AK. What are they doing then, just letting him hang out there?

[CaptainLate]

A billionaire who wants in will get in...and a few million here or there is peanuts to the haves. You must be a have not hoping against hope that your reality (i.e., the Spurs) will forever be around. Get a life, son. But, then, one less starry-eyed sheeple won't make a difference. So go ahead, keep your priorities screwed. Now, back to real life.

[cd98]

Time to enter the Luke Babbitt sweepstakes.

[xmas1997]

A billionaire who wants in will get in...and a few million here or there is peanuts to the haves. You must be a have not hoping against hope that your reality (i.e., the Spurs) will forever be around. Get a life, son. But, then, one less starry-eyed sheeple won't make a difference. So go ahead, keep your priorities screwed. Now, back to real life.


Wrong thread!!!
How does this pertain to AK47???:nope

[coyotes_geek]

So the door is officially closed?

Looks that way. Unless there was a third team involved in that S&T deal that Minnesota dumped off some salary on, there's no way they would have been able to add Martin's $7 mil salary without renouncing AK's rights to clear the cap space.

It was fun while it lasted......

[xmas1997]

So then what happens to Kirilenko now? Is he a player without a team, or what?

[Budkin]

Looks that way. Unless there was a third team involved in that S&T deal that Minnesota dumped off some salary on, there's no way they would have been able to add Martin's $7 mil salary without renouncing AK's rights to clear the cap space.

It was fun while it lasted......

So he's a free agent now and we couldn't have gotten him without a sign and trade because we blew our money on Pendergraph and Manu/Splitter correct?

[TXstbobcat]

And somehow this thread will still top 50 pages.

[TXstbobcat]

So then what happens to Kirilenko now? Is he a player without a team, or what?

If the wolves renounced him then he can go to the highest bidder. I guess then we find out if he really wants to play for a contender or just wants to chase the money.

[coyotes_geek]

So then what happens to Kirilenko now? Is he a player without a team, or what?

Someone will sign him, but his options just got a lot more limited.

[Chinook]

So the door is officially closed?

No. Literally, this is what the Spurs had to be hoping would happen. Now if the Wolves use their MLE on Brewer, they can get the players they want without having to renounce Kirilenko. That gives the Spurs time to work out a sign-and-trade. Had the team not used a trade exception, then they would have had to renounce AK, which WOULD have killed the deal.

[rjv]

And somehow this thread will still top 50 pages.

starting to rival a god exists/does not exist or homosexuality-subject-matter type thread

[xmas1997]

Someone will sign him, but his options just got a lot more limited.

The question now is: how much do the Spurs have left to spend?

[benefactor]

No. Literally, this is what the Spurs had to be hoping would happen. Now if the Wolves use their MLE on Brewer, they can get the players they want without having to renounce Kirilenko. That gives the Spurs time to work out a sign-and-trade. Had the team not used a trade exception, then they would have had to renounce AK, which WOULD have killed the deal.
Yup. If Flip stops being a douche and takes a pick and a TE for AK-47 the Spurs can hunt for another team to take on the contracts of players the need to drop to clear room. I can't see how it would be that difficult as the players the need to drop are cheap and on expiring deals.