So where are the militias/anti-government/open carry gun advocates in Missouri?

[cantthinkofanything]

Listen to 2:00-2:10. Says he was shot and then turned around and the officer fired 7 more shots. SO according to the witness, that is at least one shot in the back.

IDK what really happened but it's possible that the cop missed. Witness could have also been confused how many shots were fired before and after he turned around.

[Aztecfan03]

IDK what really happened but it's possible that the cop missed. Witness could have also been confused how many shots were fired before and after he turned around.

He did say once Brown felt the shot he turned around. It is possible the friend just thought or assumed it hit Brown.

[DisAsTerBot]

My question still stands.

Are you taking your wife and kid to protest knowing (from your facts) that the police have lost control?

well according to reports the protesters have been tweeting "free gaza"

[pgardn]

YES

last night was the 1st time they threw gas before the curfew. noone expected it.

After all you have written about the bad cops leaving, good cops coming in, and then, chaos...
You are clearly irresponsible, you leave your wife and kids at home during chaotic situations.
You don't know what the police will do, you have indicated this already.

The answer is NO. For anyone who cares anyways.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sooooo....people are being shot (not by police) but they are still supposed to wait until the official curfew starts to react?

Trill, get real.

[pgardn]

well according to reports the protesters have been tweeting "free gaza"

Oh for gosh sakes...

This sounds like they want to be attacked by the police. It's the end of the summer, time to get back to school and refocus.
I think the point has been made. Can we please just let the justice system do its work...
Oh no, they let George and OJ loose, they can't be trusted...

Well heck, time to take up arms. Let's really militia this thing.
Just ridiculous.

[pgardn]

It's quite interesting that people who have a real stake in this are being done such a huge disservice by rumor mongers, and the obstinate who already know all there is to know.

Focus on what is important. This side show ruins credibility.

[TeyshaBlue]

i'd do the same thing if i saw women and children get bombarded with tear gas...i'm sure most men would..well, except you of course.

Um....no.

[CosmicCowboy]

Trill, can you explain to me what the rioting and looting is accomplishing and why you support it?

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

An open letter to Captain Ronald Johnson

I have to call you out.

I don’t care what the media says. I expect them to get it wrong and they often do. But I expect you as a veteran law enforcement commander—talking about law enforcement—to get it right.

Unfortunately, you blew it. After days of rioting and looting, last Thursday you were given command of all law enforcement operations in Ferguson by Governor Jay Nixon. St. Louis County PD was out, you were in. You played to the cameras, walked with the protestors and promised a kinder, gentler response. You were a media darling. And Thursday night things were better, much better.
But Friday, under significant pressure to do so, the Ferguson Police released the name of the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown. At the same time the Ferguson Police Chief released a video showing Brown committing a strong-arm robbery just 10 minutes before he was confronted by Officer Darren Wilson.
Many don’t like the timing of the release of the video. I don’t like that timing either. It should have been released sooner. It should have been released the moment FPD realized that Brown was the suspect.
Captain Johnson, your words during the day on Friday helped to fuel the anger that was still churning just below the surface. St. Louis County Police were told to remain uninvolved and that night the rioting and looting began again. For much too long it went on mostly unchecked. Retired St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch tweeted that your “hug-a-looter” policy had failed.
Boy did it.
And your words contributed to what happened Friday night and on into the wee hours of Saturday. According to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, you said the following regarding the release of the video: “There was no need to release it,” Johnson said calling the reported theft and the killing entirely different events.
Well Captain, this veteran police officer feels the need to respond. What you said is, in common police vernacular—bullshit. The fact that Brown knew he had just committed a robbery before he was stopped by Officer Wilson speaks to Brown’s mindset. And Captain, the mindset of a person being stopped by a police officer means everything, and you know it.
Let’s consider a few examples:
On February 15, 1978 Pensacola Police Officer David Lee conducted a vehicle check. He didn’t know what the sole occupant of the vehicle had recently done, but the occupant did. Who was he? Serial killer Ted Bundy. Bundy attempted to disarm Lee. Lee was able to retain his firearm and eventually took Bundy into custody.
On April 19, 1995 Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hangar stopped a vehicle for minor traffic violations. He didn’t know that 90 minutes earlier the traffic violator, Timothy McVeigh, killed 168 people with a truck bomb at the Murrah Federal Building. But McVeigh sure knew it, didn’t he? Fortunately, given his training and experience Hangar was able to take McVeigh into custody for carrying a concealed firearm. It was days later before it was determined that McVeigh was responsible for the bombing.
On May 31, 2003 then-rookie North Carolina police officer, Jeff Postell, arrested a man digging in a trash bin on a grocery store parking lot—an infraction that would rise to about the level of jaywalking. Postell didn’t know that he had just captured Eric Rudolph, the man whom years earlier had killed and injured numerous people with bombs and was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted list.
So now, let’s consider Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson’s stop of Michael Brown. Apparently Wilson didn’t know that Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery. But Brown did! And that Captain, is huge.
Allegedly, Brown pushed Wilson and attempted to take Wilson’s gun. We’re also being told that Officer Wilson has facial injuries suffered during the attempt by Brown to disarm him. Let’s assume for a moment those alleged acts by Brown actually occurred. Would Brown have responded violently to an officer confronting him about jaywalking? Maybe, but probably not.
Is it more likely that he would attack an officer believing that he was about to be taken into custody for a felony strong-arm robbery? Absolutely.
Officer Wilson survived the encounter with Brown as did Lee, Hangar, and Postell. Michael Brown didn’t survive and it’s too soon to say if Officer Wilson’s use of deadly force was justified and legal. You and I both know that not all officers survive such confrontations. Officers die in incidents like this Captain Johnson, including a couple that I remember from your own organization:
On April 15, 1985 Missouri Trooper Jimmie Linegar was shot and killed by a white supremacist he and his partner stopped at a checkpoint; neither Trooper Linegar nor his partner were aware that the man they had stopped had just been indicted by a federal grand jury for involvement in a neo-Nazi group accused of murder. The suspect immediately exited the vehicle and opened fire on him with an automatic weapon.
Just a month before, Missouri Trooper James M. Froemsdorf was shot and killed—with his own gun—after making a traffic stop. When the Trooper made that stop he didn’t know that the driver was wanted on four warrants out of Texas—But again the suspect knew it.
So Captain Johnson, I guess the mindset and recently committed crimes of the suspects that murdered those Missouri Troopers didn’t mean anything. The stops by the Troopers, as you have said, are entirely different events right?
Bullshit.

[cantthinkofanything]

Just read that Brown could have been in a drug induced fury when he charged the officer.

[ChumpDumper]

Just read that Brown could have been in a drug induced fury when he charged the officer.Where did you read this?

[cantthinkofanything]

Where did you read this?

they are discussing it upstairs at the Club.

[ChumpDumper]

they are discussing it upstairs at the Club.Yeah, we know you made it up.

[cantthinkofanything]

Yeah, we know you made it up.

ugh...I'm tired of posting. but you should continue to defend Michael Brown at all costs.

[ChumpDumper]

ugh...I'm tired of posting. but you should continue to defend Michael Brown at all costs.Straw man.

Just stop lying.

[CosmicCowboy]

Anything about Browns drug use or non use would be pure speculation at this point until official autopsy results come back.

[CosmicCowboy]

Logically, however, it's not that far fetched that a convenience store robbing street punk like Brown would also be a drug user.

[cantthinkofanything]

Straw man.

Just stop lying.

:downspin:

[ChumpDumper]

Anything about Browns drug use or non use would be pure speculation at this point until official autopsy results come back.


Logically, however, it's not that far fetched that a convenience store robbing street punk like Brown would also be a drug user.Why are people compelled to speculate?

And lie?

[boutons_deux]

Just read that Brown could have been in a drug induced fury when he charged the officer.

yes, the corrupt cops, always criminalizing their victims while LYING about their murdering cops, have leaked that Brown could have been BUI (black under the influence)

[boutons_deux]

White Juries Are Not Kind to Black Defendants

What the authors discover is that all white juries are 16% more likely to convict black defendants than white defendants but the presence of just a single black person in the jury pool equalizes conviction rates by race.

The effect is large and remarkably it occurs even when the black person is not picked for the jury.

The latter may not seem possible but the authors develop an elegant model of voir dire that shows how using up a veto on a black member of the pool shifts the characteristics of remaining pool members from which the lawyers must pick; that is, a diverse jury pool can make for a more “ideologically” balanced jury even when the jury is not racially balanced.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/08/white-juries-are-not-kind-black-defendants

"if you haven't done anything wrong (and aren't black), you have nothing to worry about" :lol

[RandomGuy]

Sooooo....people are being shot (not by police) but they are still supposed to wait until the official curfew starts to react?

Trill, get real.

http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/657752/453575526.0.jpg

A police officer watches over protesters in Ferguson, Missouri. (Scott Olson / Getty Images News)

Look at his shoulder patch. He isn't in the army.

While I don't condone looting, one has to wonder if the ham-handed response isn't contributing to the chaos.

[CosmicCowboy]

dang, that's a nice rig.

[RandomGuy]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/12/1407852230341_Image_galleryImage_FERGUSON_MO_AUGUS T_11_Pol.JPG

Not helping.

(edit--jeez... look closely at the mail box, esp. the blur)

[boutons_deux]

World’s Most Repressive Regimes Delight In U.S. Crack Down In Ferguson (http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/08/18/3472299/china-russia-iran-ferguson/)

After years of being critiqued for its own crackdowns against dissidents, China has begun to use the ongoing clashes between police and protesters and police in Ferguson, MO as a way to lambaste the United States for hypocrisy, joining other repressive regimes in expressing no small amount of schadenfreude at the current situation.

The Chinese government either directly owns or oversees all media within the country, including the Xinhua news service. As such, the op-ed published on Monday (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2014-08/18/c_133564928.htm) from commentator Li Li can be read as being an unofficial statement from Beijing. In the article, Li takes the United States to task for not yet realizing Dr. Martin Luther King’s dream, noting that “despite the progress, racial divide still remains a deeply-rooted chronic disease that keeps tearing U.S. society apart, just as manifested by the latest racial riot in Missouri.”

Russia Today, which is controlled through the Kremlin, has maintained a liveblog (http://rt.com/usa/180448-ferguson-police-shooting-protest/) of the situation and has deployed at least one reporter (https://twitter.com/NastiaChurkina) to the scene. On the other hand, they’ve also used the protests to mock reports (http://rt.com/news/181024-viral-video-rebel-ferguson/)that the Kremlin deployed a man who was until recently acting as commander of rebel forces to Ukraine.

Likewise, Iran’s state-run Press TV has run several stories (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/18/375727/americans-in-la-protest-police-brutality/) on Ferguson, including at least one that appears to have been pilfered from American outlet The Hill (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/17/375688/pentagon-arms-used-to-curb-us-protests/). On his Twitter account, Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei went further, tweeting out (https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/501082156803039232): “Based on global statistics,US govt is the biggest violator of #HumanRights. Besides int’l crimes,it commits crimes against its ppl” and “Today like previous years, African-Americans are still under pressure, oppressed and subjected to discrimination. #Ferguson.”

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/08/18/3472299/china-russia-iran-ferguson/

USA is as corrupt and as oppressive of democracy and dissent as other authoritarian regimes.

[pgardn]

World’s Most Repressive Regimes Delight In U.S. Crack Down In Ferguson (http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/08/18/3472299/china-russia-iran-ferguson/)

After years of being critiqued for its own crackdowns against dissidents, China has begun to use the ongoing clashes between police and protesters and police in Ferguson, MO as a way to lambaste the United States for hypocrisy, joining other repressive regimes in expressing no small amount of schadenfreude at the current situation.

The Chinese government either directly owns or oversees all media within the country, including the Xinhua news service. As such, the op-ed published on Monday (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2014-08/18/c_133564928.htm) from commentator Li Li can be read as being an unofficial statement from Beijing. In the article, Li takes the United States to task for not yet realizing Dr. Martin Luther King’s dream, noting that “despite the progress, racial divide still remains a deeply-rooted chronic disease that keeps tearing U.S. society apart, just as manifested by the latest racial riot in Missouri.”

Russia Today, which is controlled through the Kremlin, has maintained a liveblog (http://rt.com/usa/180448-ferguson-police-shooting-protest/) of the situation and has deployed at least one reporter (https://twitter.com/NastiaChurkina) to the scene. On the other hand, they’ve also used the protests to mock reports (http://rt.com/news/181024-viral-video-rebel-ferguson/)that the Kremlin deployed a man who was until recently acting as commander of rebel forces to Ukraine.

Likewise, Iran’s state-run Press TV has run several stories (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/18/375727/americans-in-la-protest-police-brutality/) on Ferguson, including at least one that appears to have been pilfered from American outlet The Hill (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/17/375688/pentagon-arms-used-to-curb-us-protests/). On his Twitter account, Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei went further, tweeting out (https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/501082156803039232): “Based on global statistics,US govt is the biggest violator of #HumanRights. Besides int’l crimes,it commits crimes against its ppl” and “Today like previous years, African-Americans are still under pressure, oppressed and subjected to discrimination. #Ferguson.”

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/08/18/3472299/china-russia-iran-ferguson/

USA is as corrupt and as oppressive of democracy and dissent as other authoritarian regimes.




How do the Chinese and other countries even know this is going on Boots?
Please ask yourself this. And then give me an answer. And you know what the response up top from China and Russia is between themselves...

Ya see what happens in a democracy with mixed ethnic groups, it just don't work.

[boutons_deux]

How do the Chinese and other countries even know this is going on Boots?
Please ask yourself this. And then give me an answer. And you know what the response up top from China and Russia is between themselves...

Ya see what happens in a democracy with mixed ethnic groups, it just don't work.

mush brains! :lol

I bet they have Internet, satellite TV, etc, etc, watchathink?

[RandomGuy]

dang, that's a nice rig.

Heh, it is.

I haven't finished reading the whole thread, but would love the open carry nuts to do a protest there.

That would be hilarious. And by hilarious, I mean tragically lethal.

It would also be a tragicomedy of the highest order to watch the mental contortions of the NRA having to support the someone protesting the death of an unarmed man. No limits on gun rights, right?

Not trying to bait you, but I just wanted to point out that wandering around with weapons needs some limits, just as there are common-sense limits on free speech.

[pgardn]

mush brains! :lol

I bet they have Internet, satellite TV, etc, etc, watchathink?

Oh brilliant Boots, and how did it get through to them?
Think you GD idiot...

[pgardn]

Boots?
Boots?

Is our conversation being traced?
Should we lay low now?
Shhhhh...

[TheSanityAnnex]

dang, that's a nice rig.
Mega Arms Billet upper and lower in .308
Very nice.

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g441/tc2k11arf/photochops/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-comments_zps869e1366.jpg (http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/tc2k11arf/media/photochops/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-comments_zps869e1366.jpg.html)

Interesting. Only 3 bullet casings found on scene, and it appears only 3 bullets could have caused all the wounds.

[pgardn]

Mega Arms Billet upper and lower in .308
Very nice.

So what's it used for?
Is it like a great sniper rifle or what?
It does not look like something one would strafe rhinos with.

[pgardn]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g441/tc2k11arf/photochops/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-comments_zps869e1366.jpg (http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/tc2k11arf/media/photochops/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-comments_zps869e1366.jpg.html)

Interesting. Only 3 bullet casings found on scene, and it appears only 3 bullets could have caused all the wounds.

Whoa...
Where did you get this?

[RandomGuy]

Whoa...
Where did you get this?

Parents released it.

[CosmicCowboy]

So what's it used for?
Is it like a great sniper rifle or what?
It does not look like something one would strafe rhinos with.

I'd love to turn that bad boy on a herd of wild pigs in the middle of a field at 300 yards...

[Trill Clinton]

Trill, can you explain to me what the rioting and looting is accomplishing and why you support it?

i don't support rioting and looting. most of the rioters and looters aren't even from ferguson. as far as the milk goes, desperate times call for desperate measures. they broke a glass to get into the mcdonalds, no other damage was reported.

[pgardn]

I'd love to turn that fucker on a herd of wild pigs in the middle of a field at 300 yards...

Aha!

Texas ATM needs to look at some method of releasing a load of sterile males that screwup the females rep. system when they come to term with stillborns. Very difficult, but it worked with the screw worm. Then we gotta think about some poison to put into plant roots only they get to. Then we carry out night assaults with those guns...

And it still probably won't do the job.

[Trill Clinton]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/12/1407852230341_Image_galleryImage_FERGUSON_MO_AUGUS T_11_Pol.JPG

Not helping.

(edit--jeez... look closely at the mail box, esp. the blur)

just inciting violence

[CosmicCowboy]

i don't support rioting and looting. most of the rioters and looters aren't even from ferguson. as far as the milk goes, desperate times call for desperate measures. they broke a glass to get into the mcdonalds, no other damage was reported.

So what is the "protest" accomplishing other than providing more cover and opportunity for violence?

[CosmicCowboy]

just inciting violence

That picture was SOOOOO staged...they even photoshopped the "Fuck" out of it...:lmao

[RandomGuy]

Aha!

Texas ATM needs to look at some method of releasing a load of sterile males that screwup the females rep. system when they come to term with stillborns. Very difficult, but it worked with the screw worm. Then we gotta think about some poison to put into plant roots only they get to. Then we carry out night assaults with those guns...

And it still probably won't do the job.

Eyup. Those fuckers breed so quickly.

Sterilization offers a good solution. It works well with other fast breeding animals like cats and dogs. Get the ones that CAN breed to breed unsuccessfully.

[ChumpDumper]

That picture was SOOOOO staged...they even photoshopped the "Fuck" out of it...:lmaoHow are you saying it is staged?

[Trill Clinton]

501475343308713984

501475276556365824

501466384740937729

501418442990555136

http://i62.tinypic.com/2lsya2b.png

[cantthinkofanything]

So what is the "protest" accomplishing other than providing more cover and opportunity for violence?

sippin sizzurp in my ride
like Three Six

[DarrinS]

Why are people compelled to speculate?

And lie?


Yes, why?

[Trill Clinton]

So what is the "protest" accomplishing other than providing more cover and opportunity for violence?

its accomplishing a lot obviously. there is a small minority that are looting, black and white, who are not from the community. i will post video of a ferguson resident explaining the demographic of rioters soon as i find it.

[CosmicCowboy]

501475343308713984

501475276556365824

501466384740937729

501418442990555136

http://i62.tinypic.com/2lsya2b.png

If they REALLY wanted the situation to de-escalate why don't they just stay the fuck home? What are they accomplishing except for getting Trills panties all in a wad?

[CosmicCowboy]

its accomplishing a lot obviously. there is a small minority that are looting, black and white, who are not from the community. i will post video of a ferguson resident explaining the demographic of rioters soon as i find it.

What EXACTLY?

[Trill Clinton]

ferguson residents claim out of towners(black and white, men and women) looting and rioting. start at :56 mark and it ends around the 9:00 min mark


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPTo31vUByY

[Trill Clinton]

What EXACTLY?


the entire world i witnessing systematic white supremacy and a community standing up to it.

[DisAsTerBot]

so NONE of the looters were from Ferguson?

[DarrinS]

Rev. Trill Sharpton

[CosmicCowboy]

the entire world i witnessing systematic white supremacy and a community standing up to it.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

just a bunch of stupid fuckers acting like stupid fuckers and accomplishing shit.

[cantthinkofanything]

so NONE of the looters were from Ferguson?

I bet it was those darn Sour Grapes.

[Trill Clinton]

501234213816111105

501232979923202048

501191846920740864

501192730773848064

[Trill Clinton]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

just a bunch of stupid fuckers acting like stupid fuckers and accomplishing shit.


yea the out of town looters are stupid. i agree. i'm with the protestors.

[CosmicCowboy]

A bunch of stupid motherfuckers tweets. Big fucking deal.

[Trill Clinton]

so NONE of the looters were from Ferguson?

nope

501240004803571713

499322634610282496

[tweet]499342851218497536[tweet]

ferguson police chief even confirmed. ferguson is actually a peaceful community who are harassed by their police department.and the only homicide there this year was michael brown.

[DisAsTerBot]

right because no residents of ferguson would ever steal. Oh wait...

[Trill Clinton]

cc, why are you so mad, brah? i'm just providing a side of the protests msm won't show.

[TheSanityAnnex]

the entire world i witnessing systematic white supremacy and a community standing up to it.

No. They are witnessing what happens when a bunch of people side with someone of their skin color before waiting for the facts to come out.

[CosmicCowboy]

the protestors haven't accomplished shit and aren't gonna accomplish shit.

They would be better served by using that energy to actually get a fucking job instead of hanging out in the street acting like fools

[Trill Clinton]

501453811081547776
cop denying press her 1st amendment rights
501445733887639552

501415732161175553/photo/1

501284886800367616/photo/1

501386841783042048/photo/1

501375174697308161/photo/1

[CosmicCowboy]

cc, why are you so mad, brah? i'm just providing a side of the protests msm won't show.

I'm not mad. I'm just saying it looks like a bunch of street trash acting like street trash and they aren't going to accomplish shit.

[pgardn]

501234213816111105

501232979923202048

501191846920740864

501192730773848064

So they got advice from lawyers to get off the street at night.
Just do it, especially the women and children.

The cops should let people scream yell and protest all they want. Let them be heard and get the frustration out. But at night, when the idiots come out, stay in. It's easier to video the protests and talk to people in the daytime anyway. Hell, the police should give them their bullhorns if it helps. Make a stage with a Mike, provide water and food. Then everyone go to sleep.

[Trill Clinton]

the protestors haven't accomplished shit and aren't gonna accomplish shit.

They would be better served by using that energy to actually get a fucking job instead of hanging out in the street acting like fools

501475343308713984

the protestors aren't acting a fool until their right to a peaceful assemble are violated. trust me here, i've watched several live feeds and followed this waaay more closer to you, which is pretty obvious.

[CosmicCowboy]

Those "Don't shoot!" signs are a perfect example of stupid being stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

Those "Don't shoot!" signs are a perfect example of stupid being stupid.Should they say "Please shoot"?

[cantthinkofanything]

Those "Don't shoot!" signs are a perfect example of stupid being stupid.

so you don't want people to loot and burn shit in protest. but you don't want them to use words either. what's your recommendation for those who don't believe they're being heard?

[TheSanityAnnex]

i've watched several live feeds and followed this waaay more closer to you, which is pretty obvious.Since you've followed it way closer than everyone else what are you thoughts now that the autopsy has revealed he wasn't shot in the back?

[Trill Clinton]

So they got advice from lawyers to get off the street at night.
Just do it, especially the women and children.

The cops should let people scream yell and protest all they want. Let them be heard and get the frustration out. But at night, when the idiots come out, stay in. It's easier to video the protests and talk to people in the daytime anyway. Hell, the police should give them their bullhorns if it helps. Make a stage with a Mike, provide water and food. Then everyone go to sleep.


the children are off at night. it was still daylight when law enforcement gassed protestors prematurely, like i stated earlier. women and children tried to evacuate but it was kind of hard when they were blind from the gas and police forcing them back. so many were left there trapped in clouds of tear gas.

check out this gnarley bruise this peace keeper took

500021221392936961/photo/1

[Trill Clinton]

Since you've followed it way closer than everyone else what are you thoughts now that the autopsy has revealed he wasn't shot in the back?

not everyone, just cc and most posters itt. doesn't move me one bit. autopsy is incomplete until they get clothing and the bullet wounds are consistent with eyewitness accounts of him surrendering.

[cantthinkofanything]

doesn't move me one bit. autopsy is incomplete until they get clothing and the bullet wounds are consistent with eyewitness accounts of him surrendering.

LOL. wot???

the autopsy isn't complete until it confirms what the eyewitnesses said?

[TheSanityAnnex]

doesn't move me one bit. autopsy is incomplete until they get clothing and the bullet wounds are consistent with eyewitness accounts of him surrendering.

I can guarantee you the eyewitness accounts of him surrendering will not match the bullet wounds. These are the same eyewitnesses who said he was shot in the back. Their credibility is zero.

[Trill Clinton]

501195416206336000

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501204009206947840

[Trill Clinton]

I can guarantee you the eyewitness accounts of him surrendering will not match the bullet wounds. These are the same eyewitnesses who said he was shot in the back. Their credibility is zero.

we'll see

[pgardn]

the children are off at night. it was still daylight when law enforcement gassed protestors prematurely, like i stated earlier. women and children tried to evacuate but it was kind of hard when they were blind from the gas and police forcing them back. so many were left there trapped in clouds of tear gas.

check out this gnarley bruise this peace keeper took

500021221392936961/photo/1

So can we get off the street before dusk like the lawyer suggested? On Aug. 18?

[TheSanityAnnex]

we'll see

And what will you do when the autopsy reveals only three shots were fired? How will your eyewitnesses change their stories?

[pgardn]

501195416206336000

501190071119519746

501203608181153793

501204009206947840

The press is present, I await the write up.

[CosmicCowboy]

so you don't want people to loot and burn shit in protest. but you don't want them to use words either. what's your recommendation for those who don't believe they're being heard?

Holding a sign that says "don't shoot" accomplishes absolutely nothing.

The town is 65% black. If they don't like the way it's run maybe vote?

Of course, that's not nearly as exciting as going to the street party.

[ChumpDumper]

Holding a sign that says "don't shoot" accomplishes absolutely nothing.It conveys the wish to not be shot.

[Trill Clinton]

So can we get off the street before dusk like the lawyer suggested? On Aug. 18?

how about police not fire tear gas on women and children who are doing nothing wrong before dusk??? that is THEIR community and they have the right to protest if they want. if they were out past the curfew, i'd understand. you're victim blaming

[Trill Clinton]

And what will you do when the autopsy reveals only three shots were fired? How will your eyewitnesses change their stories?

if that's the case i'll probably cry and become angry. i doubt they change their stories. i'm sure more witnesses will come forward. remember, fbi were going door to door interviewing witnesses in the complex. there is still a lot more info to come.

[CosmicCowboy]

It conveys the wish to not be shot.

From someone that is in no danger of being shot. Big whoop.

That's earthshaking stuff there.

[ChumpDumper]

From someone that is in no danger of being shot. Big whoop.

That's earthshaking stuff there.Better safe than shot.

I gotta say if it makes just one internet poster angry, the sign is worth it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't grapple with a cop for his gun and you are normally pretty safe from imagined police assasinations.

[ChumpDumper]

Don't grapple with a cop for his gun and you are normally pretty safe from imagined police assasinations.Normally.

[Trill Clinton]

501486448218869761

be back tomorrow to update tonights events and non msm accounts. going to the gym to clear my mind. looking forward to some more mature conversations from everybody but cc.

[pgardn]

how about police not fire tear gas on women and children who are doing nothing wrong before dusk??? that is THEIR community and they have the right to protest if they want. if they were out past the curfew, i'd understand. you're victim blaming

No I'm waiting for the truth, I don't trust random tweeting. The press is all over.

[CosmicCowboy]

501486448218869761

be back tomorrow to update tonights events and non msm accounts. going to the gym to clear my mind. looking forward to some more mature conversations from everybody but cc.

LOL you are just butt hurt that I'm not afraid to call your stupid ass out when you are clearly so blindly partisan.

[CosmicCowboy]

No I'm waiting for the truth, I don't trust random tweeting. The press is all over.

Dude. Trill gets TWEETS! They have to all be true because he WANTS to believe they are true. He's being used like a $2 crack whore.

[TheSanityAnnex]

501486448218869761

be back tomorrow to update tonights events and non msm accounts. going to the gym to clear my mind. looking forward to some more mature conversations from everybody but cc.I look forward to discussing information from sources other than tweets. Can you do that tomorrow?

[boutons_deux]

Don't grapple with a cop for his gun and you are normally pretty safe from imagined police assasinations.

if you're white

[CosmicCowboy]

if you're white

Yeah, cops just drive around shooting blacks for fun.

[boutons_deux]

Just read that Brown could have been in a drug induced fury when he charged the officer.

Mike Brown Is Only The Latest Black Victim To Be Smeared For Smoking Pot (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/18/3472567/the-racist-history-of-marijuana-character-assassination/)

Law enforcement in Ferguson, Missouri still haven’t told the public about the facts that preceded the deadly shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown. What they have told us is that he was the suspect in a robbery. And now, that he may have had marijuana in his system (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/county-investigation-michael-brown-was-shot-from-the-front-had-marijuana-in-his-system/) at the time of his death.

Toxicology reports are a standard element of autopsies. But neither of these facts have been linked to the firing of six deadly bullets by a police officer into his body and head.

Still, some right-wing pundits (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-rap-lyrics-ferguson-shooting) including Rush Limbaugh have already seized on the Brown’s possible use of marijuana (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/audio-rush-limbaugh-on-the-michael-brown-stolen-cigars-swisher-sweet-is-purchased-by-people-who-love-marijuana/) to villify him.

It’s the same sort of portrayal that prompted the viral #IfTheyGunnedMeDown hashtag (http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/08/16/46032/iftheygunnedmedown-behind-a-twitter-campaign-a-mul/), in which news outlets chose to disseminate images of Michael Brown that might make him seem more like a thug than a young teen who was starting college in two days. And none of it has anything to do (http://www.vox.com/michael-brown-shooting-ferguson-mo/2014/8/18/6031309/michael-brown-marijuana-killed-autopsy-criminal-legal-ferguson) with whether he should have died.

As Sybrina Fulton said (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/26/452310/what-everyone-needs-to-know-about-the-smear-campaign-against-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/) after the death of her 17-year-old son Trayvon Martin, “They killed my son, now they’re trying to kill his reputation.”

African Americans are four times as likely to be arrested (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/04/2100571/blacks-are-almost-four-times-more-likely-to-be-arrested-for-marijuana/) for marijuana than whites, even though they use marijuana at about the same rate.

So it shouldn’t come as a huge surprise that they are also more likely to be indicted by the public. Here are just a few of the other young black victims who have suffered character assassination because of alleged use of marijuana and alcohol.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/18/3472567/the-racist-history-of-marijuana-character-assassination/

[boutons_deux]

Yeah, cops just drive around shooting blacks for fun.

"As outrage over the shooting of Michael Brown roils on, many are facing the all-too-real fear that the case will never see justice, even if it turns out the shooting was entirely unjustified. But one federal appeals court last week took a remarkable stand against leniency for police accountability.

In a unanimous ruling, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit held that 20 months in prison was not enough (http://media.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/14/08/131145P.pdf) for a former DesMoines police officer who brutally beat a couple on their way home from the movies.

Erin Evans and Octavius Bonds were driving home from a date at the movies in 2008 when they were pulled over for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle. From the start, then-officer Mersed Dautovic and his fellow white officer approached the young African American couple with hostility.

When Evans, then 21, rolled down her window, Dautovic flung the door open, asking “Are you from America?” and if she was stupid.

As a now-flustered Evans attempted to find the appropriate papers in her glove compartment, a second officer ordered her to get out of the car or be pepper sprayed.

What ensued from there was a chain of violence in which Evans was dragged from the car, flung onto the hood of the car and then onto the ground as she screamed for help.

When Bonds, then 25, heard her screaming and tried to get out of the car, he was doused with pepper spray continuously, even when he tried to turn his face away from the officer. Bonds eventually grabbed Dautovic’s hand to resist, and then remembers being hit in the back of the head before he lost consciousness. When he awoke again, officers were standing over him with batons, beating him repeatedly, even as he lay in the fetal position and then possibly unconscious.

In the course of this beating, Bonds sustained a broken forearm, a split in his scalp that required seven stitches, a broken hand “so bad” that “two bones protruded through his skin” and bruises covering his body. Officers placed him face down on the road and continued to beat him, in what one witness called the motions of chopping wood. Others testified that as the officers waited for an ambulance, they left Bonds face-down on the road near the centerline, as other drivers had to swerve onto the road’s median so they didn’t run over Bonds’ head.

After all of this, Bonds and Evans were arrested and charged with interfering with and assaulting officers. Dautovic lied in both the police report and in the testimony at their trial, so their story could have ended there, as many others likely have (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/02/04/3245331/record-number-defendants-exonerated-2013-crimes-happened/)."

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/18/3471972/federal-appeals-court-demands-longer-sentence-for-officer-who-delivered-brutal-beating-during-traffic-stop/

Driving around, probably not?

But cops beat up, tase, murder every day, for fun, for the adrenalin rush, to feed their psychopathy.

So many vids around where 5 or more cops are beating the shit, beating the life of some man or lady on the ground, sometimes homeless and/or mentally below par. Cops will tase for almost any little reason, tasing marketed as non-fatal, but many 100s or more around the world are dead from being tased.

[m>s]

He a good boi he din do nuffin!!!

[Trill Clinton]

.

[Trill Clinton]

Here's what I found on Instagram under the #Ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/Ferguson/) hashtag....


http://instagram.com/p/r3Ac2iGPXi/?modal=true



"I am posting this to spread awareness to folks down here on the ground. A white anarchist punched me in the face as I was running from gun shots. Before he hit me he told me to " sit the fukk down" . The KKK is out here. There are white man throwing bombs and giving them to youth . Spread the word because its about to be night fall here in #ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/ferguson/). Please stand in solidarity with us even if just from your homes and computer screens. We are doing this for us."

This would make sense with the provocateurs in the protestor crowds at night and the gunshots.

[pgardn]

Here's what I found on Instagram under the #Ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/Ferguson/) hashtag....



"I am posting this to spread awareness to folks down here on the ground. A white anarchist punched me in the face as I was running from gun shots. Before he hit me he told me to " sit the fukk down" . The KKK is out here. There are white man throwing bombs and giving them to youth . Spread the word because its about to be night fall here in #ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/ferguson/). Please stand in solidarity with us even if just from your homes and computer screens. We are doing this for us."

This would make sense with the provocateurs in the protestor crowds at night and the gunshots.

And there were gunshots during the day.
This place has become more dangerous.

So stay the hell inside. If the antagonists are from elsewhere it becomes more apparent who wants trouble. Protests often attract others out for the fun of violence.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Here's what I found on Instagram under the #Ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/Ferguson/) hashtag....


http://instagram.com/p/r3Ac2iGPXi/?modal=true



"I am posting this to spread awareness to folks down here on the ground. A white anarchist punched me in the face as I was running from gun shots. Before he hit me he told me to " sit the fukk down" . The KKK is out here. There are white man throwing bombs and giving them to youth . Spread the word because its about to be night fall here in #ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/ferguson/). Please stand in solidarity with us even if just from your homes and computer screens. We are doing this for us."

This would make sense with the provocateurs in the protestor crowds at night and the gunshots.

:lmao I asked you for a discussion without quoting tweets and you've now moved to Instagram :lmao

you are either trolling hard or are truly a fucking idiot

[Trill Clinton]

new eyewitness account


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSy69cbDXsk

[TheSanityAnnex]

Here's what I found on Instagram under the #Ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/Ferguson/) hashtag....


http://instagram.com/p/r3Ac2iGPXi/?modal=true



"I am posting this to spread awareness to folks down here on the ground. A white anarchist punched me in the face as I was running from gun shots. Before he hit me he told me to " sit the fukk down" . The KKK is out here. There are white man throwing bombs and giving them to youth . Spread the word because its about to be night fall here in #ferguson (http://www.thecoli.com/hashtags/ferguson/). Please stand in solidarity with us even if just from your homes and computer screens. We are doing this for us."

This would make sense with the provocateurs in the protestor crowds at night and the gunshots.
And where are all the pictures of all the white supremacists and KKK causing all the trouble. Haven't seen a single picture. Watched the vice livefeed Saturday night and the only white people were reporters.

[TheSanityAnnex]

new eyewitness account


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSy69cbDXsk

Without even watching it and knowing you posted it I'm going to go with lying eyewitness, like all the others you've posted.

[Trill Clinton]

powerful image

501500873366065152/photo/1

[TheSanityAnnex]

new eyewitness account


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSy69cbDXsk

She should have kept her mouth shut. She just confirmed Brown was leaning inside the vehicle, exactly what Wilson said happened when he was hit and Brown went for his gun.

Post more vids Trill, this is sadly entertaining watching you eat it all up.

[pgardn]

She should have kept her mouth shut. She just confirmed Brown was leaning inside the vehicle, exactly what Wilson said happened when he was hit and Brown went for his gun.

Post more vids Trill, this is sadly entertaining watching you eat it all up.

She also indicated that Brown was shot from the front and that the officer missed him from behind. I'm not sure how she could tell this. There was no statement about Brown coming back after the officer or hand raising. Lot more she needs to talk about. Lots of questions. The video we saw shows next to nothing. They were not rendering any sort of help so I assume they knew he was dead. The head shot was probably not a pleasant thing to look at.

[cheguevara]

interesting case.

:lol at the people drawing conclusions at this point. All is needed is get the ballistics/forensics report and go from there.

[DarrinS]

This has officially become a circle jerk between hoodlums seeking attention and the media willimg to give them their 15 seconds.

Go home, already.

[cheguevara]

This has officially become a circle jerk between hoodlums seeking attention and the media willimg to give them their 15 seconds.

Go home, already.

Have to agree.

the mainstream media is making boatloads of money off this story. Politicians are getting tons of votes and funding off this story. Lawyers are going to make millions off this story. the gun lobby is obviously getting money. the black panthers are getting that paypa. hell, even trayvon 2.0's family is getting paid.

everyone is squeezing that boy's dead body to the last cent

Welcome to the USA

[Aztecfan03]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g441/tc2k11arf/photochops/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-comments_zps869e1366.jpg (http://s1102.photobucket.com/user/tc2k11arf/media/photochops/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-comments_zps869e1366.jpg.html)

Interesting. Only 3 bullet casings found on scene, and it appears only 3 bullets could have caused all the wounds.

Only 3 casings? According to witnesses (the ones saying Brown was fleeing and surrendering) there was at least 8 shots.

[Jacob1983]

You forgot to mention possible eyewitnesses. They will definitely get a payday from this. This whole thing is a joke and just shows how fucked up America is especially when it comes to gun violence and race. No one gives a shit if a black person is killed by another person but when a white person is the murderer, it's a big fucking deal and the world is ending. Give me a break. Pathetic fake outrage.

[Trill Clinton]

another witness vid. this dude is fried lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20RW9qjRfn8

[Trill Clinton]

Because pieces of shit like this guy never want to be confronted with their inbred racism. They do nothing but hang out with people that look and think just like them, and so when their little bubble gets pushed in, they respond with anger.

They don't even know how bad the job situation is, nor the institutional racism they approve of by their agreement. The people that do the thinking for them, get rich because they are worthless and stupid

:tu

[CosmicCowboy]

Look at all of the strawmen the racists on here, like yourself, have been able to build. It gives you pieces of shit an opportunity to unite in your fucking denial

Why don't you and Trill just answer the question? This shit is accomplishing NOTHING. It's just a big street party. This ain't MLK in Birmingham. This is nothing but street trash acting like street trash.

[Trill Clinton]

You forgot to mention possible eyewitnesses. They will definitely get a payday from this. This whole thing is a joke and just shows how fucked up America is especially when it comes to gun violence and race. No one gives a shit if a black person is killed by another person but when a white person is the murderer, it's a big fucking deal and the world is ending. Give me a break. Pathetic fake outrage.

this train of thought just shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about. you're comparing police officers to criminals....think about that. the criminals are found, prosecuted and sent to prison. neighborhoods are holding peace rallies all the time but they're not televised.

the lack of empathy from so many is the reason why this protest is going on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDU8Bk9jc-s

[Trill Clinton]

Why don't you and Trill just answer the question? This shit is accomplishing NOTHING. It's just a big street party. This ain't MLK in Birmingham. This is nothing but street trash acting like street trash.

yet you KEEP posting in here addressing it lol.

holder is there, president has spoken on it, the world is watching. of course this isn't MLK in birmingham because your people can't have dogs bite us and shoot us with water canons anymore. its just tear gas and LRAD's now. want it to end? charge the killer cop with murder. until then, our voices will be heard.

[m>s]

The wild feral n!gg3r charged the cop, he wasn't "shot in the back" or any of that nonsense according to the AUTOPSY. I don't know why we ever ended slavery and segregation, you people just can't handle having a little freedom. That's right, if whitey weren't so compassionate and naive you'd STILL be picking cotton so don't get greedy.

[CosmicCowboy]

yet you KEEP posting in here addressing it lol.

holder is there, president has spoken on it, the world is watching. of course this isn't MLK in birmingham because your people can't have dogs bite us and shoot us with water canons anymore. its just tear gas and LRAD's now. want it to end? charge the killer cop with murder. until then, our voices will be heard.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

LOL @ the little bitch.

[Trill Clinton]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

LOL @ the little bitch.

and here comes the name calling. you're too old for that. stop trolling.

[CosmicCowboy]

and here comes the name calling. you're too old for that. stop trolling.

Sorry, but I find your blind solidarity with ignorant street trash just because they are black to be quite amusing.

[Trill Clinton]

inherently evil.

501493512589025280

501573051897479168

501565762797338624

501566735129251841

501566244840300544

[Trill Clinton]

Sorry, but I find your blind solidarity with ignorant street trash just because they are black to be quite amusing.

and i find your blind solidarity to cops killing innocent black youths just because they're black quite amusing. so we're even.

[CosmicCowboy]

and i find your blind solidarity to cops killing innocent black youths just because they're black quite amusing. so we're even.

If the cop killed him in cold blood without provocation then I hope the justice system confirms it and he goes to jail. The thug that got shot was far from an "innocent black youth" though.

[pgardn]

this train of thought just shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about. you're comparing police officers to criminals....think about that. the criminals are found, prosecuted and sent to prison. neighborhoods are holding peace rallies all the time but they're not televised.

the lack of empathy from so many is the reason why this protest is going on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDU8Bk9jc-s

He totally contradicted himself. Stick to the story, and then extend it to how blacks are treated.

But I happen to agree with everything he has said.

Its hot, it's the end of the summer, and it's a total outrage how that body was treated after the shooting.

So the frustration with the obvious (blacks are treated differently), has boiled up for those who want to vent, AND those just out for trouble. The best thing that can happen now for everyone is school. Get the young male hotheads that can't express their anger except through violence in front of an adult to watch them. Get the out of town party goers back to their jobs because their play friends are back in school.

And then get the evidence together and continue the broader conversation peacefully. This is not the first time we have had summer riots in this country that boiled down to race.

[m>s]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristineDByers/statuses/501556693382094848

At least a dozen witnesses back cops story

[CosmicCowboy]

two forensic pathologists hired by Brown’s family said their autopsy showed he was hit by at least six shots, one of which struck him at the top of the head and traveled downward through the brain. They said two wounds appeared to be “reentry” wounds. They said that there were no signs on Brown’s body of a struggle and that he did not appear to have been shot at close range because no gunshot residue was found on his body.

More lying "witnesses" exposed

[benefactor]

innocent black youths
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvFZ9xgIIAAgCZW.jpg

[Winehole23]

Answer the question. Criminal yes or no?the video appears to show Brown paying for his cigars and the owner of the store did not report a theft or any other crime.

[CosmicCowboy]

the video appears to show Brown paying for his cigars and the owner of the store did not report a theft or any other crime.

Seriously? you are actually claiming he didn't shoplift the cigars and assault the clerk?

[boutons_deux]

the video appears to show Brown paying for his cigars and the owner of the store did not report a theft or any other crime.

REPORTER: The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.

REPORTER: "I asked the attorney for the owner of the store how the Ferguson police ended up with the video the Police Chief released this morning, the attorney said, 'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft#

[Winehole23]

Seriously? you are actually claiming he didn't shoplift the cigars and assault the clerk?Brown appears to put money on the counter. Clerk laid hands on him first. No audio, so it's hard to tell what happened before the altercation.

The shop didn't report a crime. Why do you assume one happened?

[pgardn]

REPORTER: The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.

REPORTER: "I asked the attorney for the owner of the store how the Ferguson police ended up with the video the Police Chief released this morning, the attorney said, 'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft#

Ya think the owner might have been a bit intimidated and decided to let it go?
What does it matter who called it in?

[DisAsTerBot]

REPORTER: The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.

REPORTER: "I asked the attorney for the owner of the store how the Ferguson police ended up with the video the Police Chief released this morning, the attorney said, 'during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322560/-Ferguson-Store-Owner-Says-NO-ONE-From-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft#

all that says is that someone in the store called. not the owners

[DarrinS]

Brown appears to put money on the counter. Clerk laid hands on him first. No audio, so it's hard to tell what happened before the altercation.

The shop didn't report a crime. Why do you assume one happened?

For some reason, a customer reported a crime.

[CosmicCowboy]

Brown appears to put money on the counter. Clerk laid hands on him first. No audio, so it's hard to tell what happened before the altercation.

The shop didn't report a crime. Why do you assume one happened?

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:roll eyes:rolleyes

*shaking head*

Even TRILL hasn't advanced THAT ridiculous claim...

[Winehole23]

which claim? I'm just saying the video evidence isn't clear cut.

it's indisputable that the store didn't call the police.

[pgardn]

which claim? I'm just saying the video evidence isn't clear cut.

it's indisputable that the store didn't call the police.

The Store Clerk was questioned and said Brown stole the cigars. According to police.
Now he could be lying but...

[Winehole23]

regardless, an alleged crime isn't a crime and doesn't warrant how police treated Brown.

[boutons_deux]

How the Defense Industry Convinced Congress to Militarize Local Cops

( spoiler: it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to buy Congress )

According to a new analysis (http://maplight.org/content/73514?utm_source=Data%3ADefense%20Industry-Backed%20Lawmakers%20Voted%20to%20Continue%20Polic e%20Militarization&utm_campaign=Defense%20Industry_Militiarization%20 of%20Police%20&utm_medium=email) of campaign finance data, the politicians who voted against Grayson's bill received, on average, 73 percent more campaign donations from defense industry sources from 2011 through 2013 than their peers who voted for it.

The analysis—conducted by the Berkeley-based research group MapLight using data provided by the Center for Responsive Politics—also found that of 59 representatives who received more than $100,000 from the defense industry from 2011 through 2013, all but three voted against the amendment.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/08/how-defense-industry-made-room-militarized-police-today

[Winehole23]

TSA's question was: is he a criminal?

[Winehole23]

there might be some reasonable doubt about that, is all I meant.

[Winehole23]

unfortunately, police shot the suspect before it could be adjudicated normally.

[CosmicCowboy]

regardless, an alleged crime isn't a crime and doesn't warrant how police treated Brown.

:lmao

you were there? You know for a fact it wasn't a good shoot?

The store video certainly puts in question Trills assertion the Brown was just an "innocent black youth".

[pgardn]

regardless, an alleged crime isn't a crime and doesn't warrant how police treated Brown.

Yes. So...

It is however germane to Brown's state of thinking when he got stopped.

[Winehole23]

so is the color of his skin.

[Winehole23]

:lmao

you were there? You know for a fact it wasn't a good shoot?

The store video certainly puts in question Trills assertion the Brown was just an "innocent black youth".until he gets his day in court, he damn sure is.

[boutons_deux]

More lying "witnesses" exposed

same accusation against the cops: they're lying while smearing Brown as a criminal and doper (subtext: murdering him was OK, just another dead n!gg@, WGAF? FPD sure doesn't).

[CosmicCowboy]

so is the color of his skin.

Only to racists.

You are also privy to the state of mind of the officer in question?

wow. You should call a press conference.

[pgardn]

so is the color of his skin.

Yes so...

If one has just had a physical confrontation with a store clerk, and then not long after one gets confronted by the police, what might be on one's mind? Besides the color of his skin?

[CosmicCowboy]

same accusation against the cops: they're lying while smearing Brown as a criminal and doper (subtext: murdering him was OK, just another dead n!gg@, WGAF? FPD sure doesn't).

It was the families pathologist that said he was stoned.

[Winehole23]

Yes so...

If one has just had a physical confrontation with a store clerk, and then not long after one gets confronted by the police, what might be on one's mind? Besides the color of his skin?dunno. why don't you tell me?

[Winehole23]

overnight: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/liveblog-live/liveblog/live-updates-tension-in-ferguson/

[pgardn]

dunno. why don't you tell me?

Oh shit?

Possibly?

Dont play dumb, you can put yourself in a situation and think of possiblities.

[boutons_deux]

Yes. So...

It is however germane to Brown's state of thinking when he got stopped.

how is it germane? and how would his unknowable state of thinking affect his unknowable behavior?

[m>s]

Communists blown the fuck out

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html

[FromWayDowntown]

It's reassuring to know that theft and assault (alleged) have become capital crimes susceptible of immediate enforcement.

[pgardn]

how is it germane? and how would his unknowable state of thinking affect his unknowable behavior?

oh jesus...

Courts don't deal with unknowables, they deal with reasonable possibilities.

So Boutons has just had a physical confrontation with a store clerk. Boots is walking down the street and a police car pulls up. What is a possible thought that might enter boots head?

Seriously boo, this happens all the time in courtrooms and before during depositions. Don't play stupid.

[FromWayDowntown]

until he gets his day in court, he damn sure is.

No, no. Presumptions of innocence are quaint and outdated.

[pgardn]

And yes this is important to know about the confrontation between the cop and Brown. He claims Brown went for his gun.

Now after that, the shooting at range, I got no clue.

[Winehole23]

Mark Steyn:


The most basic problem is that we will never know for certain what happened. Why? Because the Ferguson cruiser did not have a camera recording the incident. That's simply not credible. "Law" "enforcement" in Ferguson apparently has at its disposal tear gas, riot gear, armored vehicles and machine guns ...but not a dashcam. That's ridiculous. I remember a few years ago when my one-man police department in New Hampshire purchased a camera for its cruiser. It's about as cheap and basic a police expense as there is.


Last year, my meek mild-mannered mumsy office manager was pulled over by an angry small-town cop in breach of her Fourth Amendment rights. The state lost in court because the officer's artful narrative and the usual faked-up-after-the-fact incident report did not match the dashcam footage. Three years ago, I was pulled over by an unmarked vehicle in Vermont and (to put it mildly) erroneously ticketed. In court, I was withering about the department's policy of no dashcams for unmarked cars, and traffic cops driving around pretending to be James Bond but without the super-secret spy camera. The judge loathed me (as judges tend to), but I won that case. In 2014, when a police cruiser doesn't have a camera, it's a conscious choice. And it should be regarded as such.


And, if we have to have federal subsidy programs for municipal police departments, we should scrap the one that gives them the second-hand military hardware from Tikrit and Kandahar and replace it with one that ensures every patrol car has a camera.

http://www.steynonline.com/6524/cigars-but-not-close

[Winehole23]

Oh shit?

Possibly?

Dont play dumb, you can put yourself in a situation and think of possiblities. Brown scared a cop and deserved to be shot on the spot?

[pgardn]

oh jesus...

Courts don't deal with unknowables, they deal with reasonable possibilities.

So Boutons has just had a physical confrontation with a store clerk. Boots is walking down the street and a police car pulls up. What is a possible thought that might enter boots head?

Seriously boo, this happens all the time in courtrooms and before during depositions. Don't play stupid.

Insert Winehole for boo

If you have not a thought go through your head I can't help you.
You implied some sort of disability in ascertaining how one might think.

[pgardn]

dunno. why don't you tell me?

[Winehole23]

see my guess at what you meant, two posts back.

[Trill Clinton]

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:roll eyes:rolleyes

*shaking head*

Even TRILL hasn't advanced THAT ridiculous claim...

didn't feel i had to *shrugs*

you see in the video, he places money on the counter, grabs a box of cigars and gives them to his friend, his friend puts the box back on the counter. clerk for some reason tries to stop him. you can see what looks like money in the clerks hand. it wasn't serious enough for the owner to report a crime yet y'all are more upset about some cigars than the owner

chief already admitted there was no report of robbery or theft made at the time of his death. besides, people shoplift all the time and live to tell about it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unyKRYb7WPo

[CosmicCowboy]

Brown scared a cop and deserved to be shot on the spot?

Love these monday morning quarterbacks.

[Winehole23]

so are you, so is everyone. all discussion is after the fact.

[pgardn]

see my guess at what you meant, two posts back.

If you seriously don't believe the officers defense team is not going to use what I have posted I can't help you.

So Brown thought he had scared a cop in a town that has been known for strong armed tactics as the police car approached him? Can we just throw out the word reasonable in the legal system. And let's just get rid of the word motive as others actions and thoughts are unknowable. That should fix our legal system. No trials, we are stuck in a philosophical nightmare. It's quick and easy.

[Winehole23]

If you seriously don't believe the officers defense team is not going to use what I have posted I can't help you.I didn't say so, but it wouldn't be surprising.

Thanks for saying what you mean. I'm not a mind reader. Few of us here are

[DarrinS]

It's reassuring to know that theft and assault (alleged) have become capital crimes susceptible of immediate enforcement.

I'm pretty sure the officer shot him over the petty theft. That, and he was black.

[pgardn]

dunno. why don't you tell me?

[pgardn]

Oh shit?

Possibly?

Dont play dumb, you can put yourself in a situation and think of possiblities.

This is what I meant.

[Winehole23]

I've acknowledged your point and agreed with it. What more do you want me to say?

[boutons_deux]

I'm pretty sure the officer shot him over the petty theft. That, and he was black.

:lol even the FPD said the shooter didn't known Brown was a suspect :lol

the cop murdered him BECAUSE HE COULD

[vy65]

regardless, an alleged crime isn't a crime and doesn't warrant how police treated Brown.

If the cop's story is to be believed, was his use of force warranted?

[pgardn]

They left the body in the street for 4 hrs?
Can anyone confirm this?

This is totally unacceptable.

How long after the shooting was the incident called in?
Can anyone find this?

I would appreciate it.

[CosmicCowboy]

If the cop's story is to be believed, was his use of force warranted?

If in fact the guy turned after being told to stop and bum rushed the cop...

yeah, in my opinion...

you just don't do shit like that and expect a good outcome.

[angrydude]

With more and more info coming in (witnesses saw Brown charging, no shots in back, scuffle over gun, etc), it's looking like a good bet the cop's shooting will be legally justified. You might argue he shot him too many times, but that's a judgment call that happens right on the spot.

The main problem is department policies that allow cops to use deadly force because they feel uncomfortable.

[CosmicCowboy]

The last shot was in the TOP of the head going DOWN into the brain. Forensically that better corroborates a forward rush/tackle than an innocent youth holding his hands up and saying "don't shoot!"

[Winehole23]

If the cop's story is to be believed, was his use of force warranted?possibly, yes. it's also possible the cop fudged the story.

[vy65]

possibly, yes. it's also possible the cop fudged the story.

Agreed. I don't envy the people who'll ultimately be responsible for deciding the truth of what happened.

[DisAsTerBot]

the most probable scenario is that his head went down after he was initially hit in the arm. But it still does not tell us what brown was doing/not doing.

[boutons_deux]

Cops murder white guys, too

Cops gun down headphones-wearing Utah man because he wouldn’t comply with orders

Police shot and killed (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/20-year-executed-slc-police-allegedly-wearing-headphones-unable-hear-orders/) a 20-year-old Monday who was wanted for probation violation, but the man’s brother said he was wearing headphones and could not hear officers’ orders.

Officers were called about 7 p.m. to a 7-Eleven store in Salt Lake City after witnesses reported a man waving a gun around.

Dillon Taylor was walking out of the convenience store with his brother and cousin when officers arrived, and police said Taylor matched a description of the suspect.

Three officers said they ordered Taylor (http://www.ksl.com/?sid=31104149&nid=148&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-1) to reveal his hands, but they said he ignored their commands and was “visibly upset.”

Taylor was then shot by police and was pronounced dead at the scene.

His brother said Taylor was wearing headphones and did not hear the officers until they surrounded him.

“He couldn’t hear them, so he just kept walking,”said Jerrail Taylor (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58287556-78/taylor-police-robbery-lake.html.csp). “(Then) they had guns pointed at his face. That’s when he turned off the music. I saw them point guns at my brother’s face, and I knew what was going to happen.”

One officer told Dillon Taylor to get on the ground, but another told him to place his hands on top of his head.

“He got confused, he went to pull up his pants to get on the ground, and they shot him,” Jerrail Taylor said.

Police have not said whether Taylor was armed at the time, but his brother insists he didn’t have a gun.

“All this complaining about one of us having a gun, I’m kind of lost at because none of us had a gun,” said Jerrail Taylor.

But police said officers did not likely know who Taylor was or that he was wanted on an open warrant.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/15/cops-gun-down-headphones-wearing-utah-man-because-he-wouldnt-comply-with-orders/

Thanks, NRA and gun mfrs!

[boutons_deux]

The Pew Research Center poll (http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/) conducted on August 14-17 among 1,000 adults found that while 80 percent of black Americans say the incident raises important issues about race, only 37 percent of whites agreed. The majority of whites (47 percent) held the view that race is getting more attention than it deserves.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/only-37-whites-polled-believe-michael-brown-shooting-raises-issues

63% of whites think a white cop murdering an unarmeed black man in a black community and leaving his body on the street for hours raises no race issues? :lol

extreme activist SCOTUS5, tell us again how racism has come a long way since the 1960s! :lol

[DisAsTerBot]

The Pew Research Center poll (http://www.people-press.org/2014/08/18/stark-racial-divisions-in-reactions-to-ferguson-police-shooting/) conducted on August 14-17 among 1,000 adults found that while 80 percent of black Americans say the incident raises important issues about race, only 37 percent of whites agreed. The majority of whites (47 percent) held the view that race is getting more attention than it deserves.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/only-37-whites-polled-believe-michael-brown-shooting-raises-issues

63% of whites think a white cop murdering an unarmeed black man in a black community and leaving his body on the street for hours raises no race issues? :lol

extreme activist SCOTUS5, tell us again how racism has come a long way since the 1960s! :lol






I would think it raises procedural issues. But i guess that's cause im not constantly thinking about race?

[DarrinS]

Cops murder white guys, too

Cops gun down headphones-wearing Utah man because he wouldn’t comply with orders




No protests. No looting. No snake oil salesmen like Rev. Sharpton.




Taylor pleaded guilty in 2012 to robbery and obstructing justice after he and another person stole a tip jar from a restaurant and then a 30-pack of beer about an hour later. He threatened to shoot a witness to the theft, and then he threatened to shoot one of his accomplices and their wife or daughter about a month after the incident.


Strange how these types of people get shot by cops.

[ChumpDumper]

No protests. No looting. No snake oil salesmen like Rev. Sharpton.





Strange how these types of people get shot by cops.
Obviously a capitol offense.

There should be a protest if that's what happened.

[boutons_deux]

The Best Reporting on Federal Push to Militarize Local Police

( headlines/soundbites only )

The Defense Department has provided tens of thousands of pieces of military equipment to local police departments for free.

The DOD program, known as 1033, has provided $4.3 billion in free military equipment to local police.

The Justice Department, working with the Pentagon, began to pay for military technology in police departments during the Clinton years

States received at least $34 billion in federal grants to purchase military grade supplies in the decade after 9/11.

Department of Homeland Security spending on domestic security hit $75 billion a year in 2011.

St. Louis County has received at least 50 pieces of free tactical gear from the Defense Department in the last four years.

Police conduct up to 80,000 SWAT raids a year in the U.S., up from 3,000 a year in the early ‘80s

The grenade launchers used by Ferguson police can cause serious injury.

Militarization isn’t just changing the tools police officers use, but how they relate to communities they serve

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-best-reporting-on-the-federal-push-to-militarize-local-police?utm_source=et&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter

[DarrinS]

Obviously a capitol offense.

There should be a protest if that's what happened.


Meh, one less thug on the planet.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Members on the local law enforcement boards are saying Wilson suffered a broken eye socket and may lose sight permanently in that eye. Could be very damning evidence against Brown if true, not that Brown cares anymore.

[boutons_deux]

Members on the local law enforcement boards are saying Wilson suffered a broken eye socket and may lose sight permanently in that eye. Could be very damning evidence against Brown if true, not that Brown cares anymore.

his own damn fault. why was involved physically with a huge guy in the first place?

I wonder if he said "please" when he told them to get out of the street, or

was it just "n!gg@s, GTFO of the street before a shoot your dirty black asses"

[DarrinS]

Members on the local law enforcement boards are saying Wilson suffered a broken eye socket and may lose sight permanently in that eye. Could be very damning evidence against Brown if true, not that Brown cares anymore.

I'm skeptical of this.

[ChumpDumper]

Meh, one less thug on the planet.
Meh, "sanctity of life."

[TheSanityAnnex]

his own damn fault. why was involved physically with a huge guy in the first place?

I wonder if he said "please" when he told them to get out of the street, or

was it just "n!gg@s, GTFO of the street before a shoot your dirty black asses"If Wilson's story is true, explain to me how he is at fault for a 6'4" huge dude trying to grab his gun and punching him.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'm skeptical of this.I'm skeptical of cops all the time, but I tend to lean towards believing their story when the other sides story continues to be proven false.

[DarrinS]

I'm skeptical of cops all the time, but I tend to lean towards believing their story when the other sides story continues to be proven false.


I'm only skeptical because there is a cell phone video that supposedly shows officer Wilson at the scene, and he doesn't appear to have a massive facial injury.

[DarrinS]

Meh, "sanctity of life."

I don't have any sympathy for a white trash thug who threatened to kill people.

[Infinite_limit]

I'm skeptical of cops all the time, but I tend to lean towards believing their story when the other sides story continues to be proven false.
I discussed the conflicting view points with my GF. I've been arrested before so I subconsciously have a negative feeling whenever I see Police, no matter where or the situation. On the other hand my GF has not been arrested so when she sees a Cop in a store she thinks "Great, no one will be stealing" or a Cop out in public "Good, I know I am safe". Maybe it has a bit to do with male vs female i.e. I can protect myself but I think it mostly has to do with our past experiences

Having said that, thinking the USA is still Jim Crow South is gullible. There are so many reasons why a Cop wouldn't kill a citizen: Fired from job, Jail time, Harassment from public and overall self-guilt.

[boutons_deux]

I don't have any sympathy for a white trash thug who threatened to kill people.

does he deserve to be shot dead not committing a crime?

[boutons_deux]

I'm skeptical of cops all the time, but I tend to lean towards believing their story when the other sides story continues to be proven false.

to make out their murderous cop to be a victim of murdered n!gg@ violence, another cop could have hit him, aka, fake evidence to frame the victim.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm only skeptical because there is a cell phone video that supposedly shows officer Wilson at the scene, and he doesn't appear to have a massive facial injury.

I had my orbital bone broken and sinus damage in an accident and you couldn't see anything out of the ordinary the first few hours.

[DarrinS]

does he deserve to be shot dead not committing a crime?

Deserve? Perhaps not. But a person of his ilk getting shot is not surprising. And the race of the cop who shot him is completely irrelevant.

[DarrinS]

I had my orbital bone broken and sinus damage in an accident and you couldn't see anything out of the ordinary the first few hours.

Well, I could be wrong. And it was a poor quality cell phone video from a distance.

[boutons_deux]

If Wilson's story is true, explain to me how he is at fault for a 6'4" huge dude trying to grab his gun and punching him.

I assume Wilson is lying, since he has the most to gain, exoneration of murder, in lying. Brown's friend has another story about Wilson open his door hard into the street walkers.

[CosmicCowboy]

to make out their murderous cop to be a victim of murdered n!gg@ violence, another cop could have hit him, aka, fake evidence to frame the victim.

Get real, Boo.

If we are gonna wildly speculate maybe Johnson's friend shot him and framed the cop.

[cantthinkofanything]

Get real, Boo.

If we are gonna wildly speculate maybe Johnson's friend shot him and framed the cop.

:lol

I was gonna post that yesterday but decided not to.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I assume Wilson is lying, since he has the most to gain, exoneration of murder, in lying. Brown's friend has another story about Wilson open his door hard into the street walkers.
The same friend who lied about Brown being shot in the back? Yeah he's credible.

[ElNono]

Regardless of what happened, this was handled terribly... it's clear the Police didn't have the confidence of the citizens they're supposed to serve before this happened, and this incident only accentuated it.

Going forward, I don't know how you deal with this other than revamping the entire Police force there.

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/


dozens of eyewitnesses confirm Wilson's story.

[vy65]

^ If true, I still don't know if the use of deadly force would be appropriate (only a fist fight). But damn, that's a tough one ...

[TheSanityAnnex]

^ If true, I still don't know if the use of deadly force would be appropriate (only a fist fight). But damn, that's a tough one ...

If he went for his gun that is all that is needed to justify, legally speaking.

[ElNono]

What doesn't make sense to me is if he was going for his gun, then you would think the shots would be from close range. But according to the few autopsy reports out there, none of the shots were from close range.

Even if he ran away afterwards, I can't think shooting to kill was justified. Obviously, just speculation...

[vy65]

Regardless of whether Brown went for the gun or not, if he physically assaulted Wilson, I think that changes the narrative.

[ElNono]

Regardless of whether Brown went for the gun or not, if he physically assaulted Wilson, I think that changes the narrative.

Two shots to the head though? I could understand if it's from a fearful civilian, that's not trained to deal with an escalating situation like that, etc. AFAIK, cops are primarily trained to shoot to stop, not to kill.

[ElNono]

My current reaction is to be skeptical with the amount of force used. Perhaps new details will change that.

[vy65]

Two shots to the head though? I could understand if it's from a fearful civilian, that's not trained to deal with an escalating situation like that, etc. AFAIK, cops are primarily trained to shoot to stop, not to kill.

If you cold-clock a cop to the point of fracturing his face, I think you should anticipate some pretty severe consequences. I see your point though, and that's why I think it's a debate.

My impression has been that the marches/protests are caught up with the Saint Brown narrative. If he broke a cop's face, it's hard for me to see why so many people should be up in arms. And that's coming from a guy who fucking hates the police.

[CosmicCowboy]

What doesn't make sense to me is if he was going for his gun, then you would think the shots would be from close range. But according to the few autopsy reports out there, none of the shots were from close range.

Even if he ran away afterwards, I can't think shooting to kill was justified. Obviously, just speculation...

You seem to forget, Brown was apparently:

1) aggressive
2) not very smart
3) stoned

The officer and witnesses statements that after the officer pulled his gun and ordered them to stop Brown taunted the cop that he "wouldn't shoot him" and then Brown allegedly bum rushed the cop.

Thats what they are saying.

Naturally Trill will say that poor innocent boy was calmly standing there with his hands up begging the officer not to shoot and the cop just unloaded his clip on him because...it's Trill being Trill.

[CosmicCowboy]

Two shots to the head though? I could understand if it's from a fearful civilian, that's not trained to deal with an escalating situation like that, etc. AFAIK, cops are primarily trained to shoot to stop, not to kill.

I seriously doubt the cop was stopping to check bullet impact locations as the 300# guy was rushing towards him...

[TheSanityAnnex]

Two shots to the head though? I could understand if it's from a fearful civilian, that's not trained to deal with an escalating situation like that, etc. AFAIK, cops are primarily trained to shoot to stop, not to kill.

Stopping the threat often times means killing it.

[tlongII]

Jesus, you are inbred piece of shit.

Why do you say that? CC's statement was completely plausible.

[tlongII]

Stopping the threat often times means killing it.

Yes, cops are authorized to use deadly force when shooting. They don't try to wing guys. Not saying it's right. It's just the way it is.

[ElNono]

If you cold-clock a cop to the point of fracturing his face, I think you should anticipate some pretty severe consequences. I see your point though, and that's why I think it's a debate.

My impression has been that the marches/protests are caught up with the Saint Brown narrative. If he broke a cop's face, it's hard for me to see why so many people should be up in arms. And that's coming from a guy who fucking hates the police.

I mean, if I'm in a banana republic like Argentina, sure, I expect to get two bullets to the head and thrown in the middle of the ocean... In America, I expect more professionalism... obviously, again, this is all speculation. If the kid motioned like he was going to pull a gun or something like that, I can see the officer falling for it. That's why details matter.

IMO, the protests are fueled up because the initial reaction from the Police was absolutely stupid. Showing up with army gear, aiming at protesters, taking forever to even release a statement. Then they release that video that, in reality, has nothing to do with the kid's death/murder. There was clear distrust before the incident, and this whole thing just tipped the scale.

I'm with you as far as cops... I grew up in a country chock full of dirty cops. Even after moving to America, just can't shake the disgust...

[vy65]

I mean, if I'm in a banana republic like Argentina, sure, I expect to get two bullets to the head and thrown in the middle of the ocean... In America, I expect more professionalism... obviously, again, this is all speculation. If the kid motioned like he was going to pull a gun or something like that, I can see the officer falling for it. That's why details matter.

IMO, the protests are fueled up because the initial reaction from the Police was absolutely stupid. Showing up with army gear, aiming at protesters, taking forever to even release a statement. Then they release that video that, in reality, has nothing to do with the kid's death/murder. There was clear distrust before the incident, and this whole thing just tipped the scale.

I'm with you as far as cops... I grew up in a country chock full of dirty cops. Even after moving to America, just can't shake the disgust...

Fair enough. And I'd like to think that the next time I get pulled over for speeding, I'm not going to get shot by the police for it. But to me, there seems to be a line that get's crossed when a suspect is stupid enough to assault a cop and break his face.

I get the bobbling of the response - and I agree with that. But if you're patron saint turns out to have done some pretty stupid shit, I'd abandon the movement.

[ElNono]

I seriously doubt the cop was stopping to check bullet impact locations as the 300# guy was rushing towards him...

Whatever happened with taking out his baton and beating the shit out of him? This isn't amateur hour or you facing a treat, this is a professional. They're held to higher standard.


Stopping the threat often times means killing it.

Not all threats are the same. Two teenage fists just don't strike me as something that warrants deadly force. Obviously, there might be more to this, but this is where I'm at without any further details.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, cops are authorized to use deadly force when shooting. They don't try to wing guys. Not saying it's right. It's just the way it is.

Once the gun comes out the training is to keep shooting until they are down and out.

[vy65]

It is not, however, unconstitutional on its face. Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where [471 U.S. 1, 12] feasible, some warning has been given. As applied in such circumstances, the Tennessee statute would pass constitutional muster.

TENNESSEE v. GARNER, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

The more I think of it, the more this seems like a legitimate use of deadly force.

[CosmicCowboy]

Whatever happened with taking out his baton and beating the shit out of him? This isn't amateur hour or you facing a treat, this is a professional. They're held to higher standard.



Not all threats are the same. Two teenage fists just don't strike me as something that warrants deadly force. Obviously, there might be more to this, but this is where I'm at without any further details.

I think you are trying to hold the police to an unreasonably high standard...this cop had just had his face smashed in by this 300# man and according to witnesses he was coming back for more...he had a reasonable fear for his safety and the right to defend himself.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Not all threats are the same. Two teenage fists just don't strike me as something that warrants deadly force. Obviously, there might be more to this, but this is where I'm at without any further details.Two fists from a 6'4" 250+ lb man are most definitely considered a deadly threat, especially when those fists previously went for your firearm. Don't think punches are deadly google is your friend.

[ElNono]

I don't buy he was a saint, but that has nothing to do with it, IMO. The guy that was selling counterfeit cigarettes in NY a couple months ago wasn't a saint either, but the cop put him on a chokehold (which has been prohibited by the NY police a long time ago) and killed him. Does it make it all right he wasn't a saint? No. I get that some people prefer to weight-in from a moral standpoint, but to me that's entire angle is irrelevant.

It's still far from clear what happened here. What there seems to be is a lot of 'anonymous sources' from either side just trying to steer the story in particular directions.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I don't buy he was a saint, but that has nothing to do with it, IMO. The guy that was selling counterfeit cigarettes in NY a couple months ago wasn't a saint either, but the cop put him on a chokehold (which has been prohibited by the NY police a long time ago) and killed him. Does it make it all right he wasn't a saint? No. I get that some people prefer to weight-in from a moral standpoint, but to me that's entire angle is irrelevant.

It's still far from clear what happened here. What there seems to be is a lot of 'anonymous sources' from either side just trying to steer the story in particular directions.

Strange that there were no protests for the man who was truly murdered by the police.

[ElNono]

I think you are trying to hold the police to an unreasonably high standard...this cop had just had his face smashed in by this 300# man and according to witnesses he was coming back for more...he had a reasonable fear for his safety and the right to defend himself.


Two fists from a 6'4" 250+ lb man are most definitely considered a deadly threat, especially when those fists previously went for your firearm. Don't think punches are deadly google is your friend.

The argument you're presenting is that because this particular cop allegedly was unable to subdue this kid, his only choice was use deadly force on him. With what we know so far, I personally don't buy it.

[FromWayDowntown]

Fair enough. And I'd like to think that the next time I get pulled over for speeding, I'm not going to get shot by the police for it. But to me, there seems to be a line that get's crossed when a suspect is stupid enough to assault a cop and break his face.

But why should a cop be entitled to do something that a normal citizen wouldn't? I get that cops are out there to protect us, but ultimately in a situation like the Brown situation, the cop's duty is really to apprehend the suspect and allow the criminal justice system to determine guilt and mete out punishment. It's one thing for a cop to see a suspect who is endangering the lives of innocents and determine that there's no choice other than to use lethal force to impose what may be fatal injuries (though even then, my view is that the use of that type of force should only be as a last resort to protect human life from an imminent danger); it's something else for the cop to be a scared and hurt and to use that circumstance to overreact to a situation in a way that cannot be reversed. Shit happens, undoubtedly, but the reaction should be at least proportional to the alleged crime. Assaulting a cop, while indefensible, isn't a capital crime.


I get the bobbling of the response - and I agree with that. But if you're patron saint turns out to have done some pretty stupid shit, I'd abandon the movement.

I guess it depends on what the basis for the movement is. If the basis of the movement is a majoritarian black community feeling as if the majority white police department unjustifiably profiles black citizens and frequently uses excessive force against them, non-violent protests in the wake of what could be perceived as another example of that seem like a perfectly reasonable manner of airing grievances.

I'm not saying that those complaints are valid here -- I honestly don't know, though there are those who have put forward a rather strong case to support those ideas. But if that's the sentiment in the community, I'm not really sure what other way they really have to express that sentiment than to organize themselves and protest, particularly when the world is watching.

And that's true, I think, even if the victim of the police overreach in that particular circumstance may have been at least partially at fault for his fate. At some point, if you think the police department has become culturally antagonistic to your community, responding to that in a massive and public way is a fairly American way to try to effectuate change.

I don't think anyone with any sense at all condones the commandeering of civil disobedience as a platform for violence or real crime.

[ElNono]

Strange that there were no protests for the man who was truly murdered by the police.

What do you mean? There has been weeks of protests in Staten Island over that incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/nyregion/eric-garner-staten-island-police-chokehold-case-to-go-to-grand-jury.html

[TheSanityAnnex]

The argument you're presenting is that because this particular cop allegedly was unable to subdue this kid, his only choice was use deadly force on him. With what we know so far, I personally don't buy it.If the kid allegedly tried to grab his gun, and then allegedly charged the same cop afterwards, yes deadly force is warranted.

[ElNono]

If the kid allegedly tried to grab his gun, and then allegedly charged the same cop afterwards, yes deadly force is warranted.

Well, we disagree.

[TheSanityAnnex]

What do you mean? There has been weeks of protests in Staten Island over that incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/nyregion/eric-garner-staten-island-police-chokehold-case-to-go-to-grand-jury.html
I stand corrected. Had stopped following the story and had seen no coverage.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Well, we disagree.Guess so.

[vy65]

But why should a cop be entitled to do something that a normal citizen wouldn't? I get that cops are out there to protect us, but ultimately in a situation like the Brown situation, the cop's duty is really to apprehend the suspect and allow the criminal justice system to determine guilt and mete out punishment. It's one thing for a cop to see a suspect who is endangering the lives of innocents and determine that there's no choice other than to use lethal force to impose what may be fatal injuries (though even then, my view is that the use of that type of force should only be as a last resort to protect human life from an imminent danger); it's something else for the cop to be a scared and hurt and to use that circumstance to overreact to a situation in a way that cannot be reversed. Shit happens, undoubtedly, but the reaction should be at least proportional to the alleged crime. Assaulting a cop, while indefensible, isn't a capital crime.

Again, I fucking hate the cops, and I don't want to give the appearance of defending them. And I agree that assaulting a cop shouldn't be a capital crime (although killing one is). That being said, I have a really hard time seeing the injustice in the death of someone who fractured a cop's face. This isn't resisting arrest, or mouthing off to a cop. This is punching him so hard his skull fractures. If the standard authorizing the use of deadly force is severe bodily injury (whether to the cop or others), I don't see why that hasn't been met here.


I guess it depends on what the basis for the movement is. If the basis of the movement is a majoritarian black community feeling as if the majority white police department unjustifiably profiles black citizens and frequently uses excessive force against them, non-violent protests in the wake of what could be perceived as another example of that seem like a perfectly reasonable example of airing grievances.

I'm not saying that those complaints are valid here -- I honestly don't know, though there are those who have put forward a rather strong case to support those ideas. But if that's the sentiment in the community, I'm not really sure what other way they really have to express that sentiment than to organize themselves and protest, particularly when the world is watching.

And that's true, I think, even if the victim of the police overreach in that particular circumstance may have been at least partially at fault for his fate. At some point, if you think the police department has become culturally antagonistic to your community, responding to that in a massive and public way is a fairly American way to try to effectuate change.

I don't think anyone with any sense at all condones the commandeering of civil disobedience as a platform for violence or real crime.

I'll plead ignorance here and say that I don't know what the "real" motives of the movement are. However, I don't think anyone can deny that, at least initially, there was a very strong outcry over the death of an innocent 18 year old boy. As the facts are developing, I have a hard time buying that narrative.

My point is that this "movement" appears to have chosen a woefully bad candidate as their patron saint for decrying the excesses of police force (which I'm on board with) because this idiot may or may not have assaulted a police officer. I don't think that those who criticize police force are any less justified -- however -- I don't think that rallying the movement around Michael Brown creates that much sympathy because it seems, more and more, that Brown was a pretty bad dude.

[ElNono]

At this point, I just don't buy that killing him was his only choice. Could he have gone back to his car, and called for backup? Was the kid an immediate threat to other civilians? It's a lot of questions without answers right now.

[vy65]

Well, we disagree.

My nig, do you think that if (and its a big if at this point) the cop's face was really fractured by Brown, then that'd constitute a "severe bodily injury?"

[ElNono]

My nig, do you think that if (and its a big if at this point) the cop's face was really fractured by Brown, then that'd constitute a "severe bodily injury?"

Possibly. I don't even pretend to state that what the cop did was illegal. I just get the feeling that certain lives are regarded as more worth than others when the decision to pull the trigger comes around. I can't help but wonder if the cop really did go through all his options before going for the last resort. Like I said, this is just based off what we know right now. It could easily change based on what really transpired.

[CosmicCowboy]

At this point, I just don't buy that killing him was his only choice. Could he have gone back to his car, and called for backup? Was the kid an immediate threat to other civilians? It's a lot of questions without answers right now.

I think you are asking for superhuman reasoning/self control for a person in a truly life threatening situation...If the Brown was truly rushing him like an NFL linebacker as witnesses say he had no time to weigh all the non-fatal options..."oh, let me holster my gun and get out my taser or go back to the car for my baton"...according to witnesses he stopped him only 3' away with the final shot....

[FromWayDowntown]

At this point, I just don't buy that killing him was his only choice. Could he have gone back to his car, and called for backup? Was the kid an immediate threat to other civilians? It's a lot of questions without answers right now.

I agree with this. While the circumstance might have (we really don't actually know yet) justified the use of deadly force, that doesn't require that deadly force be used. I realize that it's theoretical and aspirational to some to think this way, but I tend to think a police officer's approach to any encounter should be to use deadly force only when absolutely necessary and only when left with no other choice -- even if the situation might justify that type of force.

My fear is that we've turned the corner in a normative sense and now accept that when a police officer feels threatened (or even is assaulted), he or she can skip over other ways to subdue a suspect and just go right to deadly force.

That's particularly troubling when there are circumstances in which a stop is undertaken without much justification and a person who is surprised or angered by the stop overreacts to it. Somehow, the citizen is obligated to maintain his cool in that situation, no matter what, and if he doesn't keep his cool, the cop gains a justification to lose his.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think you are asking for superhuman reasoning/self control for a person in a truly life threatening situation...If the Brown was truly rushing him like an NFL linebacker as witnesses say he had no time to weigh all the non-fatal options..."oh, let me holster my gun and get out my taser or go back to the car for my baton"...according to witnesses he stopped him only 3' away with the final shot....

Getting punched by a big dude is suddenly a life-threatening situation?

If some dude rushes up me on the street, is big, and looks threatening, I can just whip out a gun an shoot him dead on the spot?

[vy65]

I agree with this. While the circumstance might have (we really don't actually know yet) justified the use of deadly force, that doesn't require that deadly force be used. I realize that it's theoretical and aspirational to some to think this way, but I tend to think a police officer's approach to any encounter should be to use deadly force only when absolutely necessary and only when left with no other choice -- even if the situation might justify that type of force.

My fear is that we've turned the corner in a normative sense and now accept that when a police officer feels threatened (or even is assaulted), he or she can skip over other ways to subdue a suspect and just go right to deadly force.

That's particularly troubling when there are circumstances in which a stop is undertaken without much justification and a person who is surprised or angered by the stop overreacts to it. Somehow, the citizen is obligated to maintain his cool in that situation, no matter what, and if he doesn't keep his cool, the cop gains a justification to lose his.

I think this is absolutely 100% right. Unfortunately, I also think it's unreasonable to expect that out of the police considering the character of people who become cops.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think this is absolutely 100% right. Unfortunately, I also think it's unreasonable to expect that out of the police considering the character of people who become cops.

Well, and if they don't choose to comply with those rules, they shouldn't get to be cops. Period.

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree with this. While the circumstance might have (we really don't actually know yet) justified the use of deadly force, that doesn't require that deadly force be used. I realize that it's theoretical and aspirational to some to think this way, but I tend to think a police officer's approach to any encounter should be to use deadly force only when absolutely necessary and only when left with no other choice -- even if the situation might justify that type of force.

My fear is that we've turned the corner in a normative sense and now accept that when a police officer feels threatened (or even is assaulted), he or she can skip over other ways to subdue a suspect and just go right to deadly force.

That's particularly troubling when there are circumstances in which a stop is undertaken without much justification and a person who is surprised or angered by the stop overreacts to it. Somehow, the citizen is obligated to maintain his cool in that situation, no matter what, and if he doesn't keep his cool, the cop gains a justification to lose his.

I understand what you are saying, but isn't the cops right to use deadly force a deterrent to resistance? I was arrested a few times in my young wild days and survived it easily by saying Yes Sir and No Sir and doing what the cops told me to do.