Derozan on the trading block??

[MoSpur02]

According to legionhoopsRoss

[MoSpur02]

https://twitter.com/legionhoopsross/status/1150873713954426888?s=21

[Texas_Ranger]

we can replace him with JR Smith who just became a free agent.

[Mugen]

Bro, you're supposed to be the source :lol

[DJR210]

Might as well fight and ultimately lose with a younger team.. if an apparent contender out East wants him and the numbers add up, I'd much rather win less games in order to get some more promising youth. That contract though..

[TheGreatYacht]

Legionhoopross is a clown. He’s not verified and he keeps telling people to follow his IG to find out who the “multiple time all star” that’s getting shipped around is. He has as much credibility as TSpence and that little kid Lakers fan believed over Woj

[MoSpur02]

Bro, you're supposed to be the source :lol

I don't got all the news. Wish I did. I get some. I'm still waiting on Belinelli to get shipped

[acoelho1]

If true, it means 2 things. One they couldn't come to a agreement on a team friendly deal with DDR, which is fine by me since we shouldn't be overpaying for a flawed player. Secondly, I think they are expecting great things from our new big 3 of Murray, White and Walker next season and DDR's game doesn't mesh well with that trio.

[Joseph Kony]

Who tf is the source? looks like some random dude

[baseline bum]

Wonder if it's more the Spurs not wanting to lock him up long-term or them being impressed with Lonnie's progression. Either way I'm good.

[DPG21920]

Makes sense. As I’ve said SA needs to get out of neutral with regards to opportunity. SA can make the playoffs without DeRozan; they’ve already proven that.

If they can’t find a reasonable path to adding to DeRozan and LMA for winning now and DeRozan extension is unlikely now is the time his value will be certain and they can help their future while not hurting their current playoff floor.

They can even just make a deal to help them with a better fit now too if they can get another fringe all star (see CP for Westbrook)

But my guess is they want to be a playoff team while adding to near future.

[DPG21920]

Might as well fight and ultimately lose with a younger team.. if an apparent contender out East wants him and the numbers add up, I'd much rather win less games in order to get some more promising youth. That contract though..

His contract is more than fair and better than most.

[Seventyniner]

Does anyone know how reputable the source is?

[ironman2886]

30 pages here we come.

[lmbebo]

30+1.... believe when we see it. I think teams are inquiring... but are the spurs really looking to ship him off?

[Hyperhypo]

Tim Duncan will be coming out of retirement

[RD2191]

Does anyone know how reputable the source is?

About as reputable as Tspence

[RD2191]

Bro, you're supposed to be the source :lol

Tbh

[baseline bum]

His contract is more than fair and better than most.

IDK man, god his three point shooting was even worse than advertised. Ten years ago yeah he'd be worth max level money, but not now when you absolutely have to shoot the thee.

[DPG21920]

Look, some of us have already discussed this and I’ve heard Eric and others state that this was always an option because an extension appeared unlikely and that SA was not that interested in even offering one

So this noise already matches up with chatter that has been ongoing. Seems to happen in layers regarding validity. There’s the really early deep chatter. Then there is the pre-mainstream chatter (this). Wonder if it picks up steam soon and it reaches that 3rd level?

I will say I heard that SA was not urgently shopping DeRozan. More than happy to listen but not forcing him out

[cd98]

I think the Spurs will listen to any offer, but I don't think they are in a rush to trade Derozan. There really is no incentive unless it is for an asset they really want. Derozan is a 20 point scorer that can create off the dribble with a dwindling shot clock. That's got value. He helps this team overall to be a contender. No reason to dump him just to dump him when his salary likely comes off the books next year anyway.

[DPG21920]

IDK man, god his three point shooting was even worse than advertised. Ten years ago yeah he'd be worth max level money, but not now when you absolutely have to shoot the thee.


Compared to all the guys making 30-40M?? He’s still in the top 25 and making a smaller portion of cap than newer max guys. His money is still in the sweeter spot of “easier” to move for salary reasons

[Mugen]

I'd trade him for just about any package tbh. The only guys I wouldn't do it for would be the ones with more years left (Love, Griffin, CP3, etc.).

Anything else that gets you within his salary is almost assuredly a better fit.

[DPG21920]

I think the Spurs will listen to any offer, but I don't think they are in a rush to trade Derozan. There really is no incentive unless it is for an asset they really want. Derozan is a 20 point scorer that can create off the dribble with a dwindling shot clock. That's got value. He helps this team overall to be a contender. No reason to dump him just to dump him when his salary likely comes off the books next year anyway.

No extension + guaranteed value (if he opts out next year no trade possible) + teams wanting to win now = solid trade market

[LakerHater]

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1150876568199323649?s=19

[$pursDynasty]

Only trade him for picks/prospects if they take that albatross Patty too, otherwise it would have to be something that would make the team better

[baseline bum]

Compared to all the guys making 30-40M?? He’s still in the top 25 and making a smaller portion of cap than newer max guys. His money is still in the sweeter spot of “easier” to move for salary reasons

He has the fifteenth highest salary in the league. Just because his contract isn't as bad as Chris Paul's or John Wall's doesn't make his contract all that reasonable for the value he provides.

[GusT15]

Trade him with 2 firsts and 2 seconds for Beal (as long as PATFO gets the green light that Beal will re-sign in 2021)

We already have a buttload of prospects and potential talents to develop over the next 4 years.The Spurs can take a break from drafting for 2 (2020,2022) years+offer a competitive team for Pop to coach in his last couple of seasons.

[baseline bum]

Trade him with 2 firsts and 2 seconds for Beal (as long as PATFO gets the green light that Beal will re-sign in 2021)

We already have a buttload of prospects and potential talents to develop over the next 4 years.The Spurs can take a break from drafting for 2 (2020,2022) years+offer a competitive team for Pop to coach in his last couple of seasons.

Kind of seems like a pipe dream to get Beal that cheap.

[Mr. Body]

I'd be incredibly surprised.

[DPG21920]

He has the fifteenth highest salary in the league. Just because his contract isn't as bad as Chris Paul's or John Wall's doesn't make his contract all that reasonable for the value he provides.

I’m telling you people outside of pessimistic SA fans don’t view DeRozan like that. He is a positive asset.

[baseline bum]

I’m telling you people outside of pessimistic SA fans don’t view DeRozan like that. He is a positive asset.

So I hope he can be moved for an asset then. I don't think he's worth the money, which is why Toronto gave him to RC knowing Leonard was out the door to LA once the season ended.

[$pursDynasty]

I’m telling you people outside of pessimistic SA fans don’t view DeRozan like that. He is a positive asset.
Patty is a negative asset, DeFrozen isn't a big positive but a slight one, which shouldn't be disregarded for no reason.

[GusT15]

Kind of seems like a pipe dream to get Beal that cheap.

2 firsts seems like we underpaid for Beal but then again 3 firsts would be an overpay.

Here's where DeRozan comes in.He's still an Allstar for the Eastern Conference-for a team like the Wizards he could have value.Plus his contract is basically a 1+1 at the same $ Beal is making.

Again this is all under the prism that Beal likes the idea of playing in SA.

[DPG21920]

So I hope he can be moved for an asset then. I don't think he's worth the money, which is why Toronto gave him to RC knowing Leonard was out the door to LA once the season ended.

Not being worth the money is not the same as not valuable or albatross. He’s pretty evenly paid for his value and will fetch something positive.

Not saying he’s Beal or AD value obviously; just that I wouldn’t be surprised if it were low ceiling but decent salary match + Youngish player + pick(s)

Something like DeRozan + Beli for Marvin Williams + Biyombo + Bridges + Pick (something like that depending on quality of vets, pick or young player. The better of one of those the lesser of the other stuff. )

[Mugen]

The Wizards could do a lot better than a Derozan centerpiece for Beal. Unless you're comfortable with moving 2 out of 3 of White, Murray, or Walker plus a 1st rounder, Beal is a pipe dream.

Then again, maybe he has a scumbag uncle that comes out and says he will only re-sign with the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

I would definitely trade DeRozan + White + 1st for Beal

[Genovaswitness]

fucking idiot who painted the mural can’t undo it quick enough

[Dex]

This is gonna need more legs than a random Twitter post before anyone should believe it, imo.

[cd021]

I am skeptical that they move him. Instead I think they'll play out the year with him and then let him walk. If gives the Spurs a chance to compete this year while giving Walker time to progress with the goal of him being the eventual SF.

[Mugen]

I'd do a Derozan to Miami deal centered around Justice Winslow + James Johnson and thats with Winslow being hurt all the time and not being very good tbh.

[timvp]

Timing feels a bit weird. In theory, DeRozan would have more value when more teams had cap room to help absorb his contract.

Then again, if there's a team out there who isn't happy with how the summer played out, they could go after DeRozan. In the East, there's a pretty decent argument that trading for DeRozan could lift your team into being a legit playoff contender.

[cd98]

No extension + guaranteed value (if he opts out next year no trade possible) + teams wanting to win now = solid trade market

Yes, but open cap space may be worth more than any of the assets that are offered. I'm not saying you can't trade him, it's just got to be worth something of value, like a first round pick or a position of need.

[OldMan88]

I doubt White would be offered as part of a package. Too good a defender and too much upside with Dejounte injury recovery still in question.

[DPG21920]

Timing feels a bit weird. In theory, DeRozan would have more value when more teams had cap room to help absorb his contract.

Then again, if there's a team out there who isn't happy with how the summer played out, they could go after DeRozan. In the East, there's a pretty decent argument that trading for DeRozan could lift your team into being a legit playoff contender.

Orlando, Miami, Cha, Chicago all make sense

[TD 21]

They more than likely won't do it for their usual misguided reasons, but only logical trades I can come up with, are DeRozan, Belinelli and possibly Metu for Gordon and Fournier and DeRozan for Jackson, Snell or Galloway and a lottery protected '20 1st.

The former would be a nice trade. They'd actually improve and come closer to making sense. Sure, Gordon would eat into '21 cap space, but it's doubtful they can do better, he should be attractive as a roughly $16.41M expiring and in the meantime, he'd fill the biggest hole on the roster and add to the young core.

[DPG21920]

Yes, but open cap space may be worth more than any of the assets that are offered. I'm not saying you can't trade him, it's just got to be worth something of value, like a first round pick or a position of need.


Spurs seem to care about 2021 when LMA and DeRozan are off books and I don’t think any trade would ruin that unless it was for very valuable youth/picks

[exstatic]

Timing feels a bit weird. In theory, DeRozan would have more value when more teams had cap room to help absorb his contract.

Then again, if there's a team out there who isn't happy with how the summer played out, they could go after DeRozan. In the East, there's a pretty decent argument that trading for DeRozan could lift your team into being a legit playoff contender.

Funny, that was always when I thought it would happen. There were always going to be spurned suitors.

[Mugen]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)
-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum
-Covington + Dieng
-Winslow + James Johnson
-Aaron Gordon + pieces

[exstatic]

They more than likely won't do it for their usual misguided reasons, but only logical trades I can come up with, are DeRozan, Belinelli and possibly Metu for Gordon and Fournier and DeRozan for Jackson, Snell or Galloway and a lottery protected '20 1st.

The former would be a nice trade. They'd actually improve and come closer to making sense. Sure, Gordon would eat into '21 cap space, but it's doubtful they can do better, he should be attractive as a roughly $16.41M expiring and in the meantime, he'd fill the biggest hole on the roster and add to the young core.

Please don't tell me that you think Gordon can play SF. He lacks the skill set, even if he's the right size. Even Orlando finally figured that out, which is why he's available.

[DPG21920]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)

Yes to this; gets the team a young asset at a position of need to develop and nothing in SL should deter anyone on their value of Hunter.


-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum

This would require a ton of salary beyond DeRozan. It’s either Batum for DeRozan or Marvin+Biyombo. But I would not do either unless a young player and/or pick(s) involved.


-Covington + Dieng

Dont think Covington is worth DeRozan. Would not hate it, but they would need to include picks


-Winslow + James Johnson

Picks would need to be included or at least Derrick Jones Jr., Bam or Herro.


-Aaron Gordon + pieces

Yes - this is the type of move for a younger all-starish player at a position of need that makes sense.

[John B]

Adams and Roberson. Demar expiring should be attractive to OKC plus replaces WB points production

[GusT15]

Please don't tell me that you think Gordon can play SF. He lacks the skill set, even if he's the right size. Even Orlando finally figured that out, which is why he's available.

Gordon can't play SF but he can guard SF.He checked Nephew as good as anyone in the playoffs.His versatility on defense is important.

[exstatic]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)
-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum
-Covington + Dieng
-Winslow + James Johnson
-Aaron Gordon + pieces

The contracts in red are either too awful (Batum), or unplayable in todays switchable NBA and therefor awful (Dieng). I'd do either of the deals in green. The Gordon deal does nothing other than ensuring an ending contract, that somehow DD won't opt IN next summer. It's a nothing burger.

[TD 21]

Please don't tell me that you think Gordon can play SF. He lacks the skill set, even if he's the right size. Even Orlando finally figured that out, which is why he's available.

No, I meant big wing or "PF" if you prefer.

In this hypothetical trade, the rotation would be as follows . . .

Gordon/Gay
Fournier/Carroll
Aldridge/Poeltl
White/Forbes
Murray/Mills

Spacing would still be shaky, but they could get away with White starting. The only downside is no spot for Walker, but Murray, Gay and Carroll will all likely receive myriad rest games, plus obviously they'll be injuries and any non big (or "C" if you prefer) one would result in his playing. Also not impossible he'd flat out take the spot from Carroll, who'd be far less necessary with Gordon.



Gordon can't play SF but he can guard SF. He checked Nephew as good as anyone in the playoffs.His versatility on defense is important.


:tu

[exstatic]

Adams and Roberson. Demar expiring should be attractive to OKC plus replaces WB points production

FUCK NO. Steven Adams got played off the floor in the playoffs last year, and Roberson is like 50 and can't shoot.

[Mr. Body]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)
-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum
-Covington + Dieng
-Winslow + James Johnson
-Aaron Gordon + pieces

All of these make the Spurs worse.

[exstatic]

Gordon can't play SF but he can guard SF.He checked Nephew as good as anyone in the playoffs.His versatility on defense is important.

It's a two way game. You can't just be a defender any more. He can't shoot or really handle the ball, so you can hide a weak defender on him.

[duncan2150]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)
-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum
-Covington + Dieng
-Winslow + James Johnson
-Aaron Gordon + pieces


Last two could be ok but others are bad, the hornets Trade is awful...

I Can understand That people are low on derozan but You don't Trade him for nothing

[duncan2150]

All of these make the Spurs worse.

+1

[GusT15]

It's a two way game. You can't just be a defender any more. He can't shoot or really handle the ball, so you can hide a weak defender on him.

I don't disagree that on half court sets he's a problem offensively,but,hey,he's still only 23.Maybe we can "fix" him if he's willing to put in the work.

[kobyz]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5pr4xq2

[Mugen]

All of these make the Spurs worse.

Some might in the short-term. Disagree on the others tbh.

[gambit1990]

there may be a god after all...

[gambit1990]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5pr4xq2
masai is too smart for that.

[Mugen]

Walker is going to be a stud. I think there's a good chance that DWhite will be a fringe All-Star player.

Any Derozan trade should keep the above in mind, that's the backcourt of the next 4-6 years. I wouldn't bring back any long-term pieces that impede the progress of those two tbh.

[Prime BEEF]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)
-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum
-Covington + Dieng
-Winslow + James Johnson
-Aaron Gordon + pieces

don't like the hornets trade but the rest improve the team

[timtonymanu]

All of these make the Spurs worse.

Derozan is not untouchable tbh. As long as Lonnie, Derrick aren’t involved, what’s the point of keeping Demar around? Continuity? Culture?

[GusT15]

masai is too smart for that.

Masai says yes to that and then starts dancing on his desk after hanging up the phone.

The Raptors then field a team of Lowry-VanVleet-DeRozan-Siakam-Poeltl (With Ibaka-Powell-RHJ on the bench) and are top4 in the East.

The Spurs with that trade miss the playoffs.

[Chachachango]

Kyle lowry to SA.

[MoSpur02]

The teams that supposedly are talking to the Spurs are Orlando, Detroit, Chicago, and Minnesota. There aren't any players that stand out to me that would really improve the Spurs. Otto Porter Jr? Zach Leaving? Blake Griffin? Aaron Gordon? Wiggins? Covington?

[Mugen]

The teams that supposedly are talking to the Spurs are Orlando, Detroit, Chicago, and Minnesota. There aren't any players that stand out to me that would really improve the Spurs. Otto Porter Jr? Zach Leaving? Blake Griffin? Aaron Gordon? Wiggins? Covington?

Source? All those teams make sense tbh.

[Mugen]

The only player from Detroit that interests me would be Sekou and the salaries obviously don't come close. I wouldn't want Snell and Galloway taking away minutes from the better guards that are already on the Spurs.

[Chris]

Derozan for Kuzma :tu

Lebron needs more help, and we need something to fill the Bertans void. Win-win.

nvm: Lakers are over luxury tax

[spurraider21]

Orlando, Miami, Cha, Chicago all make sense
lol if miami goes all in with butler, cp3, and derozan. would be very new jersey nets of them

[spurraider21]

Trades I'd do:

-Crabbe + De'Andre Hunter puts the Hawks in the playoffs tbh (though Hunter has underwhelmed)
-Batum + Marvin Williams provided they are confident they can pull a Boris-type reclamation project on Batum
-Covington + Dieng
-Winslow + James Johnson
-Aaron Gordon + pieces
they moved up a lot to take hunter. they're not dumping him after summer league :lol

batum can shoot, and i see your point with a potential reclamation, but his contract is riskier than derozan, since demar may still opt out for one more big deal, whereas there is 0% chance of batum opting out in 2020

[Mugen]

they moved up a lot to take hunter. they're not dumping him after summer league :lol

Yeah but....Comp10 tbh.

[GusT15]

The only player from Detroit that interests me would be Sekou and the salaries obviously don't come close. I wouldn't want Snell and Galloway taking away minutes from the better guards that are already on the Spurs.

DeRozan+Belinelli for Griffin works $wise.But BG has a player option for 2021-22 for 38mil$ and that makes it a no-no.

[Seventyniner]

The teams that supposedly are talking to the Spurs are Orlando, Detroit, Chicago, and Minnesota. There aren't any players that stand out to me that would really improve the Spurs. Otto Porter Jr? Zach Leaving? Blake Griffin? Aaron Gordon? Wiggins? Covington?

Blake Griffin is an interesting name, but damn he takes up $39M in 2021 cap space and by then he will be 31. He fits the starting lineup like a glove, he hit 36% of his 7 threes per game last year. I would be scared of injury risk though. The Spurs would need assets to take on that contract, and I don't think Detroit has what the Spurs want.

Wiggins is trash, and I don't think the Wolves have (or are willing to part with) enough assets to offset that terrible contract. Covington is a nice piece but the Spurs would need much more.

Gordon also slides right in as a starting 4, and his 35% on threes is passable. His cap hit in 2021-2022 is also much more manageable at $16.4M, and he's only 23 right now. I prefer this route, though it might be better to just keep DeRozan and focus on adding two high impact players in 2021 free agency.

[exstatic]

The teams that supposedly are talking to the Spurs are Orlando, Detroit, Chicago, and Minnesota. There aren't any players that stand out to me that would really improve the Spurs. Otto Porter Jr? Zach Leaving? Blake Griffin? Aaron Gordon? Wiggins? Covington?

OP would be nice, and a better fit than DD. He would also likely opt out in a barren FA class next summer. Other than their contracts being nearly identical in amount and structure, he's the anti-DD, defending and shooting the 3, but not a premium scorer like DD can be.

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5pr4xq2

not bad

[TD 21]

If true, I'm guessing the Bulls would want to move LaVine (because Porter Jr. is a much better fit with LaVine or DeRozan), so a three team trade with the Magic could make sense, with them receiving LaVine, the Spurs receiving Gordon and other players involved to make the math work.

With where they're at and the age differential, the Bulls choosing DeRozan over LaVine doesn't make much sense though.

I'm guessing the Timberwolves would want to salary dump Wiggins (with the added bonus of improving short term by getting the rich man's version). Even with a lottery protected 1st added, obviously the Spurs should have no interest.

The Magic are the team that stands out. Weltman, their GM, was the Raptors GM a few years ago. They're trying to win, obviously need a go-to perimeter player and can't attract stars in free agency. They also drafted Okeke and signed Aminu, seemingly indicating that Gordon is on the block. Gordon is a virtual ideal fit for the Spurs. It checks a lot of boxes.




though it might be better to just keep DeRozan and focus on adding two high impact players in 2021 free agency.

Let's be real, unless they're from and or have family reasons to live here or are European, no "high impact player" signing here. A Gordon caliber player is probably about the best they can do anyway.

[exstatic]

If true, I'm guessing the Bulls would want to move LaVine (because Porter Jr. is a much better fit with LaVine or DeRozan), so a three team trade with the Magic could make sense, with them receiving LaVine, the Spurs receiving Gordon and other players involved to make the math work.

With where they're at and the age differential, the Bulls choosing DeRozan over LaVine doesn't make much sense though.

I'm guessing the Timberwolves would want to salary dump Wiggins (with the added bonus of improving short term by getting the rich man's version). Even with a lottery protected 1st added, obviously the Spurs should have no interest.

The Magic are the team that stands out. Weltman, their GM, was the Raptors GM a few years ago. They're trying to win, obviously need a go-to perimeter player and can't attract stars in free agency. They also drafted Okeke and signed Aminu, seemingly indicating that Gordon is on the block. Gordon is a virtual ideal fit for the Spurs. It checks a lot of boxes.

Gordon's a HORRIBLE fit. He can't shoot any better than DD can, and doesn't have ANY dribble drive or pull up game like DD does. Just keep DD rather than a backwards trade to get Gordon.

[DPG21920]

The teams that supposedly are talking to the Spurs are Orlando, Detroit, Chicago, and Minnesota. There aren't any players that stand out to me that would really improve the Spurs. Otto Porter Jr? Zach Leaving? Blake Griffin? Aaron Gordon? Wiggins? Covington?

2 of the 4 teams I thought :tu I think Gordon makes a ton of sense. I think Otto is a perfect fit. Also think Cov could be a target if picks involved.

Detroit would be def more a 3 team imo

[Mugen]

I'd want zero part of Griffin, Lavine, or Wiggins obviously.

See ya Bryn:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y44j7lms

[Chris]

http://i67.tinypic.com/okspqt.jpg

[exstatic]

I'd want zero part of Griffin, Lavine, or Wiggins obviously.

See ya Bryn:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y44j7lms

Why do we need a PF and a SG?

[exstatic]

http://i67.tinypic.com/okspqt.jpg

Why do we need a PF and a SG, especially one who's on the shelf for a good while?

[Leetonidas]

Lol yeah I'm sure Indy will be all over that offer

[JuneJive]

He likely won't get an extension here, right?

So, picks and expirings should be the target.

[Collins21]

The only trade offer than I would consider would be DD, forbes and Belinelli for Fournier and Gordon. This talk about Batum for Derozan needs to stop. Why would the Spurs trade a productive player for a guy who's been trash for the past 5 seasons?

[TD 21]

Gordon's a HORRIBLE fit. He can't shoot any better than DD can, and doesn't have ANY dribble drive or pull up game like DD does. Just keep DD rather than a backwards trade to get Gordon.

Wrong. He's a better, more willing and still improving 3-point shooter, with some off the dribble ability.

The pressure he initially had with the Magic wouldn't exist here. It'd be akin to Iguodala being miscast as the 76ers post Iverson "savior" before converting to his ideal swiss army knife role with the Nuggets and Warriors.

Spurs don't need DeRozan's inefficient garbage and the rotational gymnastics required with him. Redistributing those possessions through a myriad of options (mainly the 3 young guards), while improving defensively, would make them better overall.

[DPG21920]

Reggie to third team, Sekou & Galloway to SA, asset for Reggie to SA, DeRozan to Detroit

[Prime BEEF]

DeRozan for Gordon and Okeke

DeRozan for Crabbe/Reddish/Fernando

Either one would be good. Kind of like the Orlando deal better

[DPG21920]

He likely won't get an extension here, right?

So, picks and expirings should be the target.

He is not getting an extension from my understanding

[MoSpur02]

I don't think Derozan gets traded unless the Spurs really think that they can get a player that can really help them. Derozan is a very, very good player, but he doesn't fit well with the team. He whines too much when things aren't going his way. He doesn't shoot the three well and his defense isn't all that. The Spurs also have Walker and White who can step in to take Derozan's spot. I think he's a great person and fits in well as far as being low-key, but his game doesn't fit. I'd be very surprised if they trade him, but it makes sense I guess.

[DPG21920]

If you don’t trade him now his value goes way down.

[Collins21]

If you don’t trade him now his value goes way down.

Yeah but you don't trade him for trash.

[Mugen]

Why do we need a PF and a SG?

Murrary/Fatboy
White/Walker
Fournier/Carroll
Gordon/Gay/Lyles
LMA/Poetl

Feels a lot better than:

Murrary/Fatboy
White/Forbes/Beli
Derozan/Walker
Gay/Carroll/Lyles
LMA/Poetl

tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Why do we need a PF and a SG, especially one who's on the shelf for a good while?

You didn't like a trade for Oladipo after posting six bullshit tastes that make us worse?

Anyway, no way does Indiana trade their local guy who is as good as he is.

[Mugen]

Wrong. He's a better, more willing and still improving 3-point shooter, with some off the dribble ability.

The pressure he initially had with the Magic wouldn't exist here. It'd be akin to Iguodala being miscast as the 76ers post Iverson "savior" before converting to his ideal swiss army knife role with the Nuggets and Warriors.

Spurs don't need DeRozan's inefficient garbage and the rotational gymnastics required with him. Redistributing those possessions through a myriad of options (mainly the 3 young guards), while improving defensively, would make them better overall.

Not sure why this is hard to grasp for some people tbh :lol

[MoSpur02]

I think Gordon and Porter Jr are the best fits. Gordon regressed a little last season, but I think he's a good fit and despite last season is a good or improving three point shooter. Porter is great, but that contract though. Yikes. Not sure if I remember correctly, but didn't some of the Bulls’ players complain about the coaching style of Boylen?

[Chris]

Why do we need a PF and a SG, especially one who's on the shelf for a good while?

We're losing a 20+ppg SG and replacing him with a 23+ppg SG who can actually shoot from the arc (35%) also acquiring a forward to replace Bertans off the bench or a spot start.

Sabonis is only 23, we could lock him up if he has a breakout year.

[Mugen]

Salary for the next 2 years doesn't really matter tbh. The Spurs (rightfully so) seem to be targeting the summer of 2021 for a FA push.

[BatManu20]

Trade him back to Toronto for Siakim tbh.

[BatManu20]

http://i67.tinypic.com/okspqt.jpg


Spurfan wishes :lol

[Chris]

:lol

[Degoat]

That Clan the spurs fan guy said his source said the knicks and bulls are the teams interested in DeMar, take that for what it is lol

[TD 21]

Not sure why this is hard to grasp for some people tbh :lol

It's these old school types who overvalue counting stats. Sure, in the interim, the Spurs wouldn't really have a "closer" per se, but I'd rather White and Murray making decisions down the stretch than DeRozan, who'd force one of them to a spot up shooting role and the other to the bench. I also think they'd be better off doing it my committee than relying on his inefficiencies.

I don't know about including Forbes though. Even though the Magic might require some other minor asset and it would open up a rotation spot for Walker, at that point Mills would be the only sniper on the team.

[BatManu20]

Attach a FRP and see if they bite tbh.


http://i68.tinypic.com/fc7crd.jpg

[DPG21920]

Attach a FRP and see if they bite tbh.


http://i68.tinypic.com/fc7crd.jpg

Spurs would never do that.

[DPG21920]

You’d have to think on top of some whispers that SA for sure wont be extending DeRozan that trading him now makes most sense.

After Kawhi won a title with TOR, might be time for both SA/DeRozan to part ways and have a fresh start since nothing will live up to Kawhi.

SA is NOT extending DeRozan and with that in mind on top of SA loving Dejounte/Lonnie/White, it makes sense to move DeRozan now while his value is the highest.

A team that wants DeRozan would be because they need help winning now; waiting until the deadline, when it may be too late coupled with fact DeRozan can hit free agency after just a few months means no one would offer much then.

So it’s now or never and lets see if SA can get some offers they like.

[Mugen]

I'm sure they're hesitant on taking the PR hit of figuratively killing Derozan by trading him again.

I could totally see them refusing to pull the trigger on a deal they like and let him walk for nothing next summer because they want to do "right" by him....

[r0drig0lac]

Demar + Belli for Roberson + Gallo + Bazley

[TD 21]

I'm sure they're hesitant on taking the PR hit of figuratively killing Derozan by trading him again.

I could totally see them refusing to pull the trigger on a deal they like and let him walk for nothing next summer because they want to do "right" by him....

That's probably what will happen.

They could spin this publicly as basically the awkward fit, rapid improvement of the 3 young guards and the chance to add another young core piece who fills their biggest need going forward (the James, Durant, Scumbag, Antetokounmpo, etc.) defender.

[BatManu20]

Demar + Belli for Roberson + Gallo + Bazley

As much as I like Gallo fit-wise with the Spurs, that dude cannot stay healthy to save his life and is about to turn 31 in a couple weeks. Do not trust tbh.

[DAF86]

I would definitely trade DeRozan + White + 1st for Beal

Nop. No way.

Murray I would give up.

[gambit1990]

would do demar, forbes, draft pick for siakam & ibaka in heartbeat. $ works out.

[GusT15]

Demar + Belli for Roberson + Gallo + Bazley

Andre Roberson hasn't played bball since January of 2018.He basically had Parker's injury and then had an injury setback in training camp for the 2018-19 season and then they discovered a knee bone fracture last November.

I'd stay away from him tbh

Galo i'm on board with

[DPG21920]

Nop. No way.

Murray I would give up.

I would give up White and I think most 99% of the world would too. I would give up Murray instead as well. But wouldn’t hesitate on either.

[BatManu20]

Problem with Beal is he’s set to be an UFA in 2 summers and I don’t see him re-signing with the Spurs if they traded for him. That’d be my biggest concern with moving White or Murray for him. Which is why I don’t think it happens anyways. I’d pull the trigger if he had another year on his deal though tbh.

[DAF86]

I would give up White and I think most 99% of the world would too. I would give up Murray instead as well. But wouldn’t hesitate on either.

White becomes an all-star the moment DeRozan walks out that door.

[GusT15]

We should also avoid mentioning Siakam as well,even as a pipe dream.

Ujiri refused to include Siakam in a trade for Nephew,he then reportedly refused to include him in a trade for Paul George as well.

The man is obviously in love with the kid.He is not tradeable under any condition.(Unless it's for Giannis with whom he is also enamored)

[Dennis the Menace]

White becomes an all-star the moment DeRozan walks out that door.

[GreekSpursfan]

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1150876568199323649?s=19

Lets hope he does exactly that if we don't trade him. Trade him if you can get something while you can. Last but not least Siakam isn't going anywhere, people need to scratch that scenario

[TrainOfThought5]

Last two could be ok but others are bad, the hornets Trade is awful...

I Can understand That people are low on derozan but You don't Trade him for nothing

If he opts out of his contract we’ll lose him for nothing.

[DAF86]

That Clan the spurs fan guy said his source said the knicks and bulls are the teams interested in DeMar, take that for what it is lol

New York has literally nobody to make a DeRozan trade work.

From Chicago I would be cool with trading for Porter jr.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

These trades are ridiculous, DeRozan is a top 15 player in the league. Trading him to fill a hole only creates another one unless you are doing a trade that's going to bring back a player of his caliber and another quality player. What the Spurs need is another established player regardless of position to play along with DeRozan and Aldridge. One of them has a bad game it's difficult for the Spurs to win. If they are going to make a trade should be for someone to add to the starting line up. Mills, Forbes, KJ, 2020 1st or some similar combination should be enough to get a quality player.

[Realdeal1]

Would be hilarious if knicks trade for derozan and include Marcus morris in the trade lmao... ps I know morris can’t be traded before someone corrects me

[DPG21920]

White becomes an all-star the moment DeRozan walks out that door.

I love White. I love Murray. I love Lonnie. I don’t want to trade any of them. But if you can get a guaranteed all star that is still young for one of them, you have to do it. At best White becomes Beal. At best. If you can guarantee that? Yeah, you do it.

[DAF86]

Murray
White
Walker
Porter jr
Aldridge

[DAF86]

I love White. I love Murray. I love Lonnie. I don’t want to trade any of them. But if you can get a guaranteed all star that is still young for one of them, you have to do it. At best White becomes Beal. At best. If you can guarantee that? Yeah, you do it.

Why "at best"? Beal doesn't have White's all-NBA level defense, tbh.

Also, the idea would be adding another all-star to the guy you believe can become one. If you trade your up and coming all-star for an already established one, you are still an all-star short. Sure, the idea is that one of Murray or Walker can become that. The thing is I don't believe in them as much as I believe in White. That's why I would never do a White trade and I might consider a Murray one (for sure) and even maybe a Walker one (it would have to be a no brainer deal though).

[Chillen]

Why didn't they trade him for Westbrook than? this makes no sense. Unless they are after a Wizards package with Beal included.

[Joseph Kony]

These trades are ridiculous, DeRozan is a top 15 player in the league. Trading him to fill a hole only creates another one unless you are doing a trade that's going to bring back a player of his caliber and another quality player. What the Spurs need is another established player regardless of position to play along with DeRozan and Aldridge. One of them has a bad game it's difficult for the Spurs to win. If they are going to make a trade should be for someone to add to the starting line up. Mills, Forbes, KJ, 2020 1st or some similar combination should be enough to get a quality player.

ok, :lmao :lmao @ the first part. but the second part is totally untrue. if anything Spurs young guards will be held back because of Derozan. Spurs need to ship his ass out asap

[Dex]

Why didn't they trade him for Westbrook than? this makes no sense. Unless they are after a Wizards package with Beal included.

Because Westbrook is an overpaid douchebag who can't play out of any system beside his own.

That's why.

[DAF86]

These trades are ridiculous, DeRozan is a top 15 player in the league.

No, he isn't. Not even close.


Trading him to fill a hole only creates another one unless you are doing a trade that's going to bring back a player of his caliber and another quality player. What the Spurs need is another established player regardless of position to play along with DeRozan and Aldridge. One of them has a bad game it's difficult for the Spurs to win. If they are going to make a trade should be for someone to add to the starting line up. Mills, Forbes, KJ, 2020 1st or some similar combination should be enough to get a quality player.

Trading DeRozan wouldn't create any hole. DeRozan is a guard, in that position we are covered for years to come with White, Murray, Walker, Forbes and maybe even Johnson and Weatherspoon.

[LakerHater]

The New York Knicks, Chicago Bulls and Detroit Pistons have all inquired about DeMar DeRozan via trade. Trade talks have picked up last couple days. Would luv LAURI MARKKANEN! But I think coach Casey makes a hard push to reunite!

[DAF86]

Sure Pistons. Give us Doumbouya and we'll give you DeRozan.

Kidding aside, I wouldn't be against a Pistons trade involving Snell, Maker, some young prospecto and draft picks.

[BatManu20]

DeMar for Batum straight up works. Spurfan longtime dream can finally come to fruition :lol

[Degoat]

I’m so down to trade him lol I like DeMar a lot but I’d rather see Murray, white, and Lonnie get the minutes if we can get some value back. But are FA signings make zero sense if we trad DeMar unless we’re getting back a borderline all star

[Chinook]

I wonder WTF is wrong with people so much nowadays...

The Spurs aren't trading DeRozan. You don't have to move everyone just because they are (or rather might be) expiring. You can let guys go or keep your options open. At what point do you no longer care if a guy walks? They didn't "get something" for Anderson or Parker. There's a very good chance they don't even try to "get something" for Aldridge. Guys can walk for nothing. It's okay. The whole point of DeRozan was to bridge the previous and future eras. He's doing that job well. He wasn't brought in to be a mainstay for a decade. He can play out this year and potentially next, and then the two sides can part ways feeling like they both got what they wanted.

It's definitely not easy to see how the Spurs will get better next year unless their guards take an unrealistic jump and the team gets actual value in a deal. If they wanted to trade him for a pick, it would have been during the draft when they knew what they'd be getting. Almost no other trade makes any sense. Some of the deals proposed here are just miserable.

[Duncan87]

Rozan for Blake Griffin

[Duncan87]

Murray Lonnie D white Blake La not bad

[GusT15]

These trades are ridiculous, DeRozan is a top 15 player in the league.

KD,Nephew,Giannis,LBJ,Curry,Harden,PG13,AD,Jokic,E mbiid,Lillard,Butler,Klay,Beal,Oladipo.

Next tier of slightly more/equal/slightly lesser value to DeRozan in no order.

Westbrook,Kemba,Kyrie,Doncic,J.Murray,Griffin,Russ ell,LMA,Middleton,Towns,J.Holiday,Simmons,Harris,M cCollum,Siakam,Mitchell,Gobert,Horford.

Isn't DeRozan closer to value to the second group?

[Degoat]

Y’all don’t think the spurs are dumb enough to do Chris Paul for DeMar do you? Lol

[BatManu20]

Rozan for Blake Griffin

Detroit hypothetically would be trading for DeRozan to pair with Blake...

[BatManu20]

Y’all don’t think the spurs are dumb enough to do Chris Paul for DeMar do you? Lol

Zero chance.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

No, he isn't. Not even close.



Trading DeRozan wouldn't create any hole. DeRozan is a guard, in that position we are covered for years to come with White, Murray, Walker, Forbes and MAYBE even Johnson and Weatherspoon. I'd rather have a proven than a maybe. Spurs already have to many maybes. Last time we seen Murray he was playing 20 minutes a game and had no offense, Walker hasn't shown anything other than he can chunk shots in the summer league. Doubtful Forbes gets whole lot better.

[Genovaswitness]

I'd rather have a proven than a maybe. Spurs already have to many maybes. Last time we seen Murray he was playing 20 minutes a game and had no offense, Walker hasn't shown anything other than he can chunk shots in the summer league. Doubtful Forbes gets whole lot better.

derozans a proven what? mentally weak pussy who is 30 and still can’t shoot 3s. fuck that empty stats loser and his idiot “fans”

[DAF86]

I'd rather have a proven than a maybe. Spurs already have to many maybes. Last time we seen Murray he was playing 20 minutes a game and had no offense, Walker hasn't shown anything other than he can chunk shots in the summer league. Doubtful Forbes gets whole lot better.

A proven, what, inefficient high usage player? Yeah, no. I would rather have all the maybes in the World over that.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

KD,Nephew,Giannis,LBJ,Curry,Harden,PG13,AD,Jokic,E mbiid,Lillard,Butler,Klay,Beal,Oladipo.

Next tier of slightly more/equal/slightly lesser value to DeRozan in no order.

Westbrook,Kemba,Kyrie,Doncic,J.Murray,Griffin,Russ ell,LMA,Middleton,Towns,J.Holiday,Simmons,Harris,M cCollum,Siakam,Mitchell,Gobert,Horford.

Isn't DeRozan closer to value to the second group? More than half those players are not better than DeRozan.

[DAF86]

I wonder WTF is wrong with people so much nowadays...

The Spurs aren't trading DeRozan. You don't have to move everyone just because they are (or rather might be) expiring. You can let guys go or keep your options open. At what point do you no longer care if a guy walks? They didn't "get something" for Anderson or Parker. There's a very good chance they don't even try to "get something" for Aldridge. Guys can walk for nothing. It's okay. The whole point of DeRozan was to bridge the previous and future eras. He's doing that job well. He wasn't brought in to be a mainstay for a decade. He can play out this year and potentially next, and then the two sides can part ways feeling like they both got what they wanted.

It's definitely not easy to see how the Spurs will get better next year unless their guards take an unrealistic jump and the team gets actual value in a deal. If they wanted to trade him for a pick, it would have been during the draft when they knew what they'd be getting. Almost no other trade makes any sense. Some of the deals proposed here are just miserable.

It doesn't occur to you that some people, maybe even some within the Spurs organization, might feel like trading DeMar away will help acceleratte the development of players like White, Murray and Walker?

[DAF86]

More than half those players are not better than DeRozan.

Which ones?

[gambit1990]

wouldn't happen but ddr, patty, beli, forbes for cp3 and gallo works out $ wise.

cp3 / white
murray / walker
carrol / gay
gallo / luka
la / poeltl

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

derozans a proven what? mentally weak pussy who is 30 and still can’t shoot 3s. fuck that empty stats loser and his idiot “fans”Do you have reading comprehension skills.

[RC_Drunkford]

I honestly wouldn't trade him this season. The west is wide open and this team has a potential high ceiling depending on the leap White, Murray and Walker make. Spurs roster could be very well balanced with multiple high scoring options and the best defensive guard pairing in the NBA. With the west wide open it makes sense to keep him on the team for another season. Of course it depends on what you can back in a trade, but I doubt teams would be giving up anything significant for 1 year of DeMar DeRozan

[DPG21920]

I wonder WTF is wrong with people so much nowadays...

The Spurs aren't trading DeRozan. You don't have to move everyone just because they are (or rather might be) expiring. You can let guys go or keep your options open. At what point do you no longer care if a guy walks? They didn't "get something" for Anderson or Parker. There's a very good chance they don't even try to "get something" for Aldridge. Guys can walk for nothing. It's okay. The whole point of DeRozan was to bridge the previous and future eras. He's doing that job well. He wasn't brought in to be a mainstay for a decade. He can play out this year and potentially next, and then the two sides can part ways feeling like they both got what they wanted.

It's definitely not easy to see how the Spurs will get better next year unless their guards take an unrealistic jump and the team gets actual value in a deal. If they wanted to trade him for a pick, it would have been during the draft when they knew what they'd be getting. Almost no other trade makes any sense. Some of the deals proposed here are just miserable.

I agree many of the trades are horrible, but letting TP and Anderson walk is not equivalent to DeRozan. He has value and you letting guys like him walk when you know he does not fit all that well along with knowing you dont’ want to extend him makes little sense.

Sure, if you don’t get anything decent then you absolutely let him walk and keep books clean. But he has positive value and trading him absolutely should be explored knowing you aren’t extending him.

He’s the main piece of trading your franchise player and you don’t just let him walk if you can get something positive for him; either for helping to win now or in the future.

Spurs dont have to get better than last year to make the playoffs; in fact they made it without DeRozan. They aren’t going anywhere as currently constructed so unless you can do something to raise the ceiling now with DeRozan/LMA the prudent thing is to keep your floor the same (Murray/Lonnie/Carroll + whatever you trade for DeRozan basically) while helping the future too.

[Chinook]

It doesn't occur to you that some people, maybe even some within the Spurs organization, might feel like trading DeMar away will help acceleratte the development of players like White, Murray and Walker?

They would never have traded FOR him had they thought that. PATFO isn't stupid. They knew who DMDR was when they made the team. Teams tried to trade for him back then, and they said no. If their plan was to run with their young guys, DeRozan would already be gone.

[FkLA]

Is there any truth to this?

Don't want to wast time reading through the thread if it's just a tweet from a bullshit account.

[Leetonidas]

Is there any truth to this?

Don't want to wast time reading through the thread if it's just a tweet from a bullshit account.

That Paul Garcia dude said the guy was spot on about some other stuff. And even if teams are inquiring about derozan doesn't mean SA is actually looking to trade. I'd say don't waste your time

[FkLA]

That Paul Garcia dude said the guy was spot on about some other stuff. And even if teams are inquiring about derozan doesn't mean SA is actually looking to trade. I'd say don't waste your time

I figured. Thanks brah. :tu

[DPG21920]

They would never have traded FOR him had they thought that. PATFO isn't stupid. They knew who DMDR was when they made the team. Teams tried to trade for him back then, and they said no. If their plan was to run with their young guys, DeRozan would already be gone.

Are you sure? Maybe it was just a symptom of best deal available and they didn’t have as much choice as you think? They waited an awful long time while Kawhi’s value plummeted because they seemed to want to convince him to change his mind. Proved to be a fool’s errand and then DeRozan seemed to be the best of what was left.

Maybe after watching this team not do any better than the team without Kawhi and DeRozan along with the emergence of White made them say with more confidence than last year that they are the future and he is not.

[Genovaswitness]

Do you have reading comprehension skills.

I have eyes and that’s more than I can say for you. put down the crack pipe

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Which ones? Think about it. Aldridge was the only other quality player on the Spurs last season. Had a rookie and Mills starting at PG, A undrafted 2nd year player starting at SG, Gay as the best bench player, forward that could only hit 3s 3/4 of the season and got benched in the playoffs. Look the that list of players and honestly tell me which would have made the Spurs a better team if you were to switch them with DeRozan.

[DAF86]

They would never have traded FOR him had they thought that. PATFO isn't stupid. They knew who DMDR was when they made the team. Teams tried to trade for him back then, and they said no. If their plan was to run with their young guys, DeRozan would already be gone.

I'm convinced PATFO thought DeRozan would be better than what he is. Or, at least, that they could transform him into a more efficient player. For sure PATFO thought they would be better than a 48 wins team when they traded for him, so it's not like their offseason predictions were on point last season, tbh.

[Chinook]

I agree many of the trades are horrible, but letting TP and Anderson walk is not equivalent to DeRozan.

It is. That's really what this comes down to. They can let him go. It's okay. They have him because they value his skills. But they aren't extending him, because they only want his skills for this long at this price point. Theoretically, contracts are supposed to be about where one sides gives a service for a certain amount of time and then that's it. Having a guy fulfill his contract and then leave is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

You don't trade a guy just because he has "value". That's why bad teams do. DMDR has value because he's a good player who can make a team better. Well, he can do that on SA just as well, and that's true for every good player on the roster. They all have value (except Mills). Every good team has a bunch of valuable players on the roster. The point of getting back value is to keep it, not trade it away for other value.


Spurs dont have to get better than last year to make the playoffs; in fact they made it without DeRozan

I really wish you'd stop saying this. The Spurs made the playoffs with the guys on the roster at the time and against the other teams in the league at the time. That wasn't just this team minus DeRozan against the new LA teams and the rest of this more competitive West. They NEEDED DeRozan to make it last year. To believe anything else is just pure denial. Maybe they'd make it again if they moved him, but it's not a guarantee.

There just isn't a good argument for trading DeRozan, especially not right now. Maybe at the deadline, it would be different. It certainly could have been different during the draft. But not now. The Spurs need to be better than last year to make the post-season, and they'd be very much worse if they move DeMar for nothing of consequence.

[DAF86]

Think about it. Aldridge was the only other quality player on the Spurs last season. Had a rookie and Mills starting at PG, A undrafted 2nd year player starting at SG, Gay as the best bench player, forward that could only hit 3s 3/4 of the season and got benched in the playoffs. Look the that list of players and honestly tell me which would have made the Spurs a better team if you were to switch them with DeRozan.

Most of them. Are you forgetting that a Kyle Anderson led perimeter won the same amount of games, the prior season, than the DeRozan led one last season?

[Dex]

I wonder WTF is wrong with people so much nowadays...

The Spurs aren't trading DeRozan. You don't have to move everyone just because they are (or rather might be) expiring. You can let guys go or keep your options open. At what point do you no longer care if a guy walks? They didn't "get something" for Anderson or Parker. There's a very good chance they don't even try to "get something" for Aldridge. Guys can walk for nothing. It's okay. The whole point of DeRozan was to bridge the previous and future eras. He's doing that job well. He wasn't brought in to be a mainstay for a decade. He can play out this year and potentially next, and then the two sides can part ways feeling like they both got what they wanted.

It's definitely not easy to see how the Spurs will get better next year unless their guards take an unrealistic jump and the team gets actual value in a deal. If they wanted to trade him for a pick, it would have been during the draft when they knew what they'd be getting. Almost no other trade makes any sense. Some of the deals proposed here are just miserable.

#thistbh.

7 pages already over some random tweet?

How about we just give it another run next year with everybody healthy, some new role players, and our young guns getting more run?

It's a wild idea, I know.

[Collins21]

It is. That's really what this comes down to. They can let him go. It's okay. They have him because they value his skills. But they aren't extending him, because they only want his skills for this long at this price point. Theoretically, contracts are supposed to be about where one sides gives a service for a certain amount of time and then that's it. Having a guy fulfill his contract and then leave is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

You don't trade a guy just because he has "value". That's why bad teams do. DMDR has value because he's a good player who can make a team better. Well, he can do that on SA just as well, and that's true for every good player on the roster. They all have value (except Mills). Every good team has a bunch of valuable players on the roster. The point of getting back value is to keep it, not trade it away for other value.



I really wish you'd stop saying this. The Spurs made the playoffs with the guys on the roster at the time and against the other teams in the league at the time. That wasn't just this team minus DeRozan against the new LA teams and the rest of this more competitive West. They NEEDED DeRozan to make it last year. To believe anything else is just pure denial. Maybe they'd make it again if they moved him, but it's not a guarantee.

There just isn't a good argument for trading DeRozan, especially not right now. Maybe at the deadline, it would be different. It certainly could have been different during the draft. But not now. The Spurs need to be better than last year to make the post-season, and they'd be very much worse if they move DeMar for nothing of consequence.

No way in hell this team makes the playoffs without Derozan. These guys in here most of them operated from a fantasy world where they want to make trades just for he sake of making trades. Maybe the Spurs have every intention on letting Derozan fulfill is contract and then leaving. The way they sent up there books shows that exactly what they intend to do. Not trade him for garbage players on garbage contracts like some posters are suggesting.

[DPG21920]

It is. That's really what this comes down to. They can let him go. It's okay. They have him because they value his skills. But they aren't extending him, because they only want his skills for this long at this price point. Theoretically, contracts are supposed to be about where one sides gives a service for a certain amount of time and then that's it. Having a guy fulfill his contract and then leave is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

You don't trade a guy just because he has "value". That's why bad teams do. DMDR has value because he's a good player who can make a team better. Well, he can do that on SA just as well, and that's true for every good player on the roster. They all have value (except Mills). Every good team has a bunch of valuable players on the roster. The point of getting back value is to keep it, not trade it away for other value.



I really wish you'd stop saying this. The Spurs made the playoffs with the guys on the roster at the time and against the other teams in the league at the time. That wasn't just this team minus DeRozan against the new LA teams and the rest of this more competitive West. They NEEDED DeRozan to make it last year. To believe anything else is just pure denial. Maybe they'd make it again if they moved him, but it's not a guarantee.

There just isn't a good argument for trading DeRozan, especially not right now. Maybe at the deadline, it would be different. It certainly could have been different during the draft. But not now. The Spurs need to be better than last year to make the post-season, and they'd be very much worse if they move DeMar for nothing of consequence.

I dont think these are equal at all. Sure letting a guy walk is fine; it’s just not optimal. If you know a guy is walking anyways, and you aren’t doing something like ruining a contending team, letting that player walk for nothing is sub-optimal. There is a scale; someone like Anderson/TP has only x amount of value. Letting them walk is lower opportunity cost. DeRozan’s opportunity cost is much higher.

Bad teams do sub optimal things. Clippers are a good team, they had a similar situation to DeRozan with Harris and look at them now. It can work both ways.

Spurs needed DeRozan because Murray got injured. Had Murray not gotten injured I am not sure DeRozan was needed; just as the year before.

Sure, it’s different players then and teams then, but I dont find it a stretch at all with emergence of White, getting Dejounte back, having Poeltl now and then adding Carroll/Lonnie that it would not be just as good of a chance to make 7th/8th seed as past two seasons.

There are plenty of good arguments for trading DeRozan and in fact it’s what I think WILL happen.

[Chinook]

I'm convinced PATFO thought DeRozan would be better than what he is. Or, at least, that they could transform him into a more efficient player. For sure PATFO thought they would be better than a 48 wins team when they traded for him, so it's not like their offseason predictions were on point last season, tbh.

PATFO thought they'd have Murray last year. That didn't happen. I don't see why they'd sour on DeMar enough to move him rather than giving this team with Murray and Carroll a chance. I mean, if DMDR wants to go, that's an entirely different matter. Maybe they've been trying to convince him to stay this whole time with no luck. But I don't see that as likely. It''s much more likely to be that they'd hold onto DeRozan at least until they see if the young guards can get it done. Then maybe they'd facilitate a trade to an LA team or two NYK or back to Toronto once teams can trade their new contracts. I could totally see the Lakers offer up Kuzma and filler for DeRozan to try to secure the edge in the battle for LA. Maybe Detroit makes Doumbouya available?

[slick'81]

There were rumors spurs spoke to jersey and now teams are seeing whats up.Hopefully spurs find something that can improve the team and if not demar stays

[FkLA]

I'm convinced PATFO thought DeRozan would be better than what he is. Or, at least, that they could transform him into a more efficient player. For sure PATFO thought they would be better than a 48 wins team when they traded for him, so it's not like their offseason predictions were on point last season, tbh.

He was more efficient, tbf. Shot above 48% after shooting in the low-mid 40s all his years in TOR. Also had his best year as a playmaker and on defense. I doubt they've given up on him. He really wouldn't be that bad if he would just stop caring about his scorer/closer label.

[DAF86]

PATFO thought they'd have Murray last year. That didn't happen. I don't see why they'd sour on DeMar enough to move him rather than giving this team with Murray and Carroll a chance. I mean, if DMDR wants to go, that's an entirely different matter. Maybe they've been trying to convince him to stay this whole time with no luck. But I don't see that as likely. It''s much more likely to be that they'd hold onto DeRozan at least until they see if the young guards can get it done. Then maybe they'd facilitate a trade to an LA team or two NYK or back to Toronto once teams can trade their new contracts. I could totally see the Lakers offer up Kuzma and filler for DeRozan to try to secure the edge in the battle for LA. Maybe Detroit makes Doumbouya available?

Murray's injury was a blessing in disguise last season. It allowed White to develop to the extent he did. The team wouldn't have done better with Murray starting over White.

[DPG21920]

PATFO thought they'd have Murray last year. That didn't happen. I don't see why they'd sour on DeMar enough to move him rather than giving this team with Murray and Carroll a chance. I mean, if DMDR wants to go, that's an entirely different matter. Maybe they've been trying to convince him to stay this whole time with no luck. But I don't see that as likely. It''s much more likely to be that they'd hold onto DeRozan at least until they see if the young guards can get it done. Then maybe they'd facilitate a trade to an LA team or two NYK or back to Toronto once teams can trade their new contracts. I could totally see the Lakers offer up Kuzma and filler for DeRozan to try to secure the edge in the battle for LA. Maybe Detroit makes Doumbouya available?

Problem with this is as the year goes on, DeRozan’s value goes down in most scenarios. Most teams that want him, would want him to get to the playoffs or at least bolster other chances. Getting him for half a season is just less valuable along with the fact he can walk for nothing in just a few months.

IMO, if he’s traded, it’s before/close to the start of the season. If he’s here at the deadline, I see that as more difficult IMO

[DAF86]

He was more efficient, tbf. Shot above 48% after shooting in the low-mid 40s all his years in TOR. Also had his best year as a playmaker and on defense. I doubt they've given up on him. He really wouldn't be that bad if he would just stop caring about his scorer/closer label.

And yet, with all those improvements, he still failed to trully be a positive impact player, like all-star level players are suppossed to be.

[weebo]

Y'all need to calm your tits down...he ain't going anywhere. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm convinced PATFO thought DeRozan would be better than what he is. Or, at least, that they could transform him into a more efficient player. For sure PATFO thought they would be better than a 48 wins team when they traded for him, so it's not like their offseason predictions were on point last season, tbh.

but they supposedly built that team for Kawhi, so this is the first offseason where they can build the team around DeRozan and LA.

[Dennis the Menace]

If you aren’t going to win a championship this year and you aren’t going to extend the guy, then trade him for draft picks and expiring contracts.

LOL at trading the best player on Earth and closest thing to MJ for Jakob Poetl and Keldon Johnson.

Get draft picks for Derozan. You’re not winning it all with him and he’s gonna walk. Just strive for draft picks

[slick'81]

Y'all need to calm your tits down...he ain't going anywhere. :lol


Yea summer of '21 here we come. It still be fun seeing this go 20 pages and all the crazy scenarios ala the belli thread

[DAF86]

but they supposedly built that team for Kawhi, so this is the first offseason where they can build the team around DeRozan and LA.

Pop's comment about being better than the previous season were Made when they had already traded for DeRozan.

[Dennis the Menace]

I mean seriously, when a Derozan walks next year that opens up cap space. But WTF is this outdated, small market team going to do with the cap space? Some of y’all act like that cap space will be used on some next level type players. Remind me how often/likely that is going to occur.

Get some draft picks for Derozan. We draft and develop, it’s what we do best and about the only thing we do well.

[spurraider21]

I wonder WTF is wrong with people so much nowadays...

The Spurs aren't trading DeRozan. You don't have to move everyone just because they are (or rather might be) expiring. You can let guys go or keep your options open. At what point do you no longer care if a guy walks? They didn't "get something" for Anderson or Parker. There's a very good chance they don't even try to "get something" for Aldridge. Guys can walk for nothing. It's okay. The whole point of DeRozan was to bridge the previous and future eras. He's doing that job well. He wasn't brought in to be a mainstay for a decade. He can play out this year and potentially next, and then the two sides can part ways feeling like they both got what they wanted.

It's definitely not easy to see how the Spurs will get better next year unless their guards take an unrealistic jump and the team gets actual value in a deal. If they wanted to trade him for a pick, it would have been during the draft when they knew what they'd be getting. Almost no other trade makes any sense. Some of the deals proposed here are just miserable.
really not buying those comparisons. anderson was making peanuts on a rookie deal. what value were we going to get in a trade where the salaries matchup up? unless another team was just so high on anderson that they were willing to throw picks for him, a trade was never going to work out. its why trading forbes doesnt make much sense now. you're not going to get equal player value at a 3 mil salary (unless another team wants him a part of a bigger package, but again, that's a very different calculus than we'd be considering with demar)

and parker was one of the worst players in the league while being grossly overpaid. demar isn't what the spurs need, and is a poor fit, but he's significantly more attractive than TP was in his last year here

[RVSTX]

I think Murray can improve from 8ppg, and White can improve also. they are both very good defensively already. We already lost Davis for nothing, I dont want to lose derozan for nothing either...whats the use of having cap space if we cant sign a tier 1 or 2 free agent...

[DPG21920]

I mean seriously, when a Derozan walks next year that opens up cap space. But WTF is this outdated, small market team going to do with the cap space? Some of y’all act like that cap space will be used on some next level type players. Remind me how often/likely that is going to occur.

Get some draft picks for Derozan. We draft and develop, it’s what we do best and about the only thing we do well.

I am not ignoring what Chinook is saying either; just providing some things I have heard + applying a different logic. But if the only deal SA can get is basically a salary dump, then it’s not worth it since you can get that with DeRozan walking anyways + have a better team this year.

But to Chinooks point and this point about “what good is cap space”, if you’re goal is to get picks for DeRozan to a trade a better way to do that might be letting DeRozan just walk and having cap space.

If no one is willing to give you good picks for DeRozan, we’ve seen cap space be used for some pretty damn good picks. So if SA wants picks and FA aren’t coming here, that opens up the cap space to be used to take on bad deals for draft picks.

[DAF86]

I think Murray can improve from 8ppg, and White can improve also. they are both very good defensively already. We already lost Davis for nothing, I dont want to lose derozan for nothing either...whats the use of having cap space if we cant sign a tier 1 or 2 free agent...

You wouldn't be trading for cap space, you would be trading for future assets like young players and draft picks. And maybe even a role that fits the team better like an Otto Porter.

[FkLA]

And yet, with all those improvements, he still failed to trully be a positive impact player, like all-star level players are suppossed to be.

What advanced stats are you basing that on?

He's a second/third tier "star". I don't think we'd be so much happier with other guys in the same tier or lower (Tobias, Beal, Porter Jr). They'd still be huge disappointments compared to what we lost (Neph).

[weebo]

I mean seriously, when a Derozan walks next year that opens up cap space. But WTF is this outdated, small market team going to do with the cap space? Some of y’all act like that cap space will be used on some next level type players. Remind me how often/likely that is going to occur.

Get some draft picks for Derozan. We draft and develop, it’s what we do best and about the only thing we do well.

Spurs are in win-mode now. What makes less sense is trading one of your cornerstone players (as bad as he is sometimes) for draft picks of rather "potential"...If the Spurs didn't "tank" last year and traded half the team they aren't doing it this year.

[Chinook]

I dont think these are equal at all. Sure letting a guy walk is fine; it’s just not optimal. If you know a guy is walking anyways, and you aren’t doing something like ruining a contending team, letting that player walk for nothing is sub-optimal. There is a scale; someone like Anderson/TP has only x amount of value. Letting them walk is lower opportunity cost. DeRozan’s opportunity cost is much higher.

It's the same. Letting a guy walk is not about losing or holding onto value. It's about getting what you want out of a player. I know we've gone all weird recently, but normally when you sign a guy to a contract for X number of years and Y dollars, you expect to get Y amount of value in terms of play for X years. Full stop. You don't sign that guy with the understanding that you will trade him. It really doesn't make sense. If DeRozan were like five years younger and making noise about not re-signing? Maybe. But now he's an older player who's still good but isn't irreplaceable. He's pretty much worth exactly what he's paid. You keep that guy and either let him walk or work on a new deal. It's not substantially different than how they've treated Gay.


Bad teams do sub optimal things. Clippers are a good team, they had a similar situation to DeRozan with Harris and look at them now. It can work both ways.

It doesn't make sense to use LA teams as examples. They don't have the same rule-sets. LAL was a terribly run team, and now they have James and Davis. OKC is now without any of their All-NBA players simply because George didn't want to be there anymore. Toronto lost their best player despite winning a title. That's the reality the Spurs live in, not the one the Clippers did. Plus, no one even has that kind of package to offer for DeRozan right now. Maybe they will near to the deadline.


Spurs needed DeRozan because Murray got injured. Had Murray not gotten injured I am not sure DeRozan was needed; just as the year before.

God no. I really hate advanced stats because of how much they've influenced the basic understanding of the game.. Murray did not carry the team in 2017-2018. He was one of the good defenders, but other players on the team went on to have strong years without him. He without Green and Anderson wasn't going to make up for not having the team's top scorer or assister. There's a reason why teams with high-impact role-players like Covington as their best players don't make any noise while teams with "chuckers" like DeRozan and Aldridge make it to the post-season year in and out. The team needed DeRozan to make it last year. They simply didn't have the talent without him.


Sure, it’s different players then and teams then, but I dont find it a stretch at all with emergence of White, getting Dejounte back, having Poeltl now and then adding Carroll/Lonnie that it would not be just as good of a chance to make 7th/8th seed as past two seasons.

I do. People overlook how inconsistent White and Murray were because they had someone like Prime Aldridge or DeRozan to mask it. You can't just take the best games from the young players and assume they'll do it most of the time. Maybe they do, but they have to prove it first, and neither did that.


There are plenty of good arguments for trading DeRozan and in fact it’s what I think WILL happen.

I still haven't heard a good argument for trading DeRozan now. Of course, if you think the Spurs will be a solid seventh seed again yet somehow in no danger of missing the playoffs, then they might have a reason to dump him. But that seems hella unlikely outside situations where only eight teams are in the playoff race by February.

[RVSTX]

i prefer trading derozan, for the best deal available. thats what we did with the toronto trade...and we got jakob and keldon...
You wouldn't be trading for cap space, you would be trading for future assets like young players and draft picks. And maybe even a role that fits the team better like an Otto Porter.

[Chinook]

really not buying those comparisons. anderson was making peanuts on a rookie deal. what value were we going to get in a trade where the salaries matchup up? unless another team was just so high on anderson that they were willing to throw picks for him, a trade was never going to work out. its why trading forbes doesnt make much sense now. you're not going to get equal player value at a 3 mil salary (unless another team wants him a part of a bigger package, but again, that's a very different calculus than we'd be considering with demar)

and parker was one of the worst players in the league while being grossly overpaid. demar isn't what the spurs need, and is a poor fit, but he's significantly more attractive than TP was in his last year here

DeRozan isn't a bad fit for the Spurs, since only he and Aldridge are of consequence. How he fits with Murray is irrelevant until Murray actually becomes a star. Anyways, you do see teams dump guys on rookie deals for seconds all the time. Look at Stan Johnson, Thon Maker and Kelly Oubre as examples. Anderson was having a great year and could have fetched a second or two, but PATFO wanted to use his on-court value and then have the option of reevaluating during the off-season. That's the same reason they didn't trade away Gay. That they ended up re-signing him doesn't rebut the point. They didn't agree to a long-term deal with Gay in 2018 when they probably could have because they wanted to leave options open.

Guys expire every year. It's not some great horror. If DeRozan straight up doesn't want to be in SA another second, it's fine to move him. If you just aren't sure about extending him, you don't do anything.

[DPG21920]

Chinook, this isn’t some case of advanced stats and trying to apply it; SA literally made the playoffs with out Kawhi or DeRozan.

It’s not some guess that a LMA + role player team could make the playoffs - they did it. And the role players are better now even with their inconsistencies

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Most of them. Are you forgetting that a Kyle Anderson led perimeter won the same amount of games, the prior season, than the DeRozan led one last season?Are you saying that Anderson is better than DeRozan? That team also still had Ginobili and Parker on it. I'm not a DeRozan fan and replacing him with someone like Covington ain't going to make the Spurs better but adding him to play along with DeRozan and Aldridge would make a huge difference.

And if Westbrook and PG are so much better than DeRozan why did the Thunder only finish one game better? And Adams is better than anything the Spurs had outside of Aldridge.

[DPG21920]

DeRozan isn't a bad fit for the Spurs, since only he and Aldridge are of consequence. How he fits with Murray is irrelevant until Murray actually becomes a star. Anyways, you do see teams dump guys on rookie deals for seconds all the time. Look at Stan Johnson, Thon Maker and Kelly Oubre as examples. Anderson was having a great year and could have fetched a second or two, but PATFO wanted to use his on-court value and then have the option of reevaluating during the off-season. That's the same reason they didn't trade away Gay. That they ended up re-signing him doesn't rebut the point. They didn't agree to a long-term deal with Gay in 2018 when they probably could have because they wanted to leave options open.

Guys expire every year. It's not some great horror. If DeRozan straight up doesn't want to be in SA another second, it's fine to move him. If you just aren't sure about extending him, you don't do anything.

It’s not about moving him just to move him. If you believe you can make the playoffs without him AND that even with him you aren’t a contender, getting something for him will be explored.

If it’s just a salary dump then no, keep him. But if you can get a player back that cracks the top 7-8 + a younger player that fits better to the other younger guys and/or extra picks it then becomes worth it.

But you don’t believe SA would make the playoffs sans DeRozan and that appears to shape your perspective vs mine.

[Chinook]

Problem with this is as the year goes on, DeRozan’s value goes down in most scenarios.

That doesn't matter. I don't know how many ways I have to say it. The point of having DeRozan is to use him, not to trade him. He's on the team to play. That's where his value lies. If has less trade value in seven months it's likely because he won't be able to offer as much on-court value to his next team. The Spurs didn't lose that value, though. Instead, they would have just used the value themselves to help win games.

It's like thinking you should sell your car ASAP because you'll get less for it if you wait a year or two. But if you drive that car for the year or two, then you got your money out of it.

[Mugen]

But what if the car can't shoot 3s or play defense

[Dennis the Menace]

I would rather finish 8th to 10th place in the West with good draft picks in the 1-2 year pipeline, instead of finishing 6th to 8th in the West and 1st or 2nd round exit with Derozan walking for nothing at the end of it & we don’t capitalize on the cap space in the transition.

Whatever decision & plan needs to be made to get solid investment players (all star, fringe all-star) or draft picks, let’s do it.

[DAF86]

Chinook, this isn’t some case of advanced stats and trying to apply it; SA literally made the playoffs with out Kawhi or DeRozan.

It’s not some guess that a LMA + role player team could make the playoffs - they did it. And the role players are better now even with their inconsistencies

A Murray, Forbes, White, Porter jr, Aldridge lineup, for example, would easily make the playoffs.

[Chinook]

Chinook, this isn’t some case of advanced stats and trying to apply it; SA literally made the playoffs with out Kawhi or DeRozan.

It's disingenous as hell. They made the playoffs without Aldridge too if you go back to when he wasn't on the team. May as well trade him too. It's just not a good argument. Green and Anderson are high-impact guys, and LMA had the year of his life. I'm not even getting into Ginobili being there to stabilize the bench or Gasol actually stilling being a good player. It simply doesn't make sense to believe this season without DeRozan would be anything like that year.

[DPG21920]

That doesn't matter. I don't know how many ways I have to say it. The point of having DeRozan is to use him, not to trade him. He's on the team to play. That's where his value lies. If has less trade value in seven months it's likely because he won't be able to offer as much on-court value to his next team. The Spurs didn't lose that value, though. Instead, they would have just used the value themselves to help win games.

It's like thinking you should sell your car ASAP because you'll get less for it if you wait a year or two. But if you drive that car for the year or two, then you got your money out of it.

Very different; I don’t agree with your analogy but that’s fine. I am fine keeping him if there is nothing good trade wise. I don’t want to just dump him. There is no point in that.

SA didn’t trade for DeRozan because they wanted to or because he was their main target; they did so because they had to and he was the best available after waiting trying to convince Kawhi to stay.

So it’s not like some FA they hand picked where the logic of what you say makes more sense. They didn’t go into this with a “I am only trading for him to re-trade him” but they are now exploring this because he is an asset and one that if they don’t cash in, the will get nothing.

They saw that with or without DeRozan the team won the same amount of games. They saw it was a sub optimal fit with over a full season to plan. This team was built for someone that is not DeRozan and they have done nothing to change that; I don’t think that is because they believe in DeRozan from what I have heard....hence the not even offering an extension.

[DAF86]

Are you saying that Anderson is better than DeRozan? That team also still had Ginobili and Parker on it. I'm not a DeRozan fan and replacing him with someone like Covington ain't going to make the Spurs better but adding him to play along with DeRozan and Aldridge would make a huge difference.

And if Westbrook and PG are so much better than DeRozan why did the Thunder only finish one game better? And Adams is better than anything the Spurs had outside of Aldridge.

No, I'm saying that if a Murray, Mills, Green, Anderson perimeter wins the same number of games than a DeRozan led perimeter, then the logical conclusion could be that DeRozan might not be as irreplaceable as you seem to think he is.

[DPG21920]

It's disingenous as hell. They made the playoffs without Aldridge too if you go back to when he wasn't on the team. May as well trade him too. It's just not a good argument. Green and Anderson are high-impact guys, and LMA had the year of his life. I'm not even getting into Ginobili being there to stabilize the bench or Gasol actually stilling being a good player. It simply doesn't make sense to believe this season without DeRozan would be anything like that year.


Dude, really? I don’t know what is disingenuous at all. We aren’t talking about Duncan led teams. It’s a very specific LMA/Murray type team.

Green/Anderson/Manu/TP/Pau are now White/Forbes/Lonnie/Poeltl/Carroll. I don’t think it’s at all a stretch to say the latter is more talented and it’s most certainly not disingenuous

[vy65]

That doesn't matter. I don't know how many ways I have to say it. The point of having DeRozan is to use him, not to trade him. He's on the team to play. That's where his value lies. If has less trade value in seven months it's likely because he won't be able to offer as much on-court value to his next team. The Spurs didn't lose that value, though. Instead, they would have just used the value themselves to help win games.

It's like thinking you should sell your car ASAP because you'll get less for it if you wait a year or two. But if you drive that car for the year or two, then you got your money out of it.

He’s a depreciating asset. You sell when you can get the most value for him.

You can get value by using your car. That doesn’t mean riding out a depreciating asset until it’s broke down and worthless is somehow a smart move. You’re eventually going to have to buy new - or - trade in and hopefully maximize value.

Your analogy doesn’t even work that well for SA since it presumes that the value of cap space for a small market is the same as at a place like Houston or golden state. Yes, using DDR now provides value in the near term. That doesn’t mean that letting his contract expire maximizes value for the franchise in the long term.

[Spur4ever]

Spurs get Andre Drummond , Otto Porter JR

Chicago gets Mills , Metu and 2020 first from spurs and pistons

Pistons get DDR , Marco

[vy65]

Very different; I don’t agree with your analogy but that’s fine. I am fine keeping him if there is nothing good trade wise. I don’t want to just dump him. There is no point in that.

SA didn’t trade for DeRozan because they wanted to or because he was their main target; they did so because they had to and he was the best available after waiting trying to convince Kawhi to stay.

So it’s not like some FA they hand picked where the logic of what you say makes more sense. They didn’t go into this with a “I am only trading for him to re-trade him” but they are now exploring this because he is an asset and one that if they don’t cash in, the will get nothing.

They saw that with or without DeRozan the team won the same amount of games. They saw it was a sub optimal fit with over a full season to plan. This team was built for someone that is not DeRozan and they have done nothing to change that; I don’t think that is because they believe in DeRozan from what I have heard....hence the not even offering an extension.

This. More to the point, they haven’t made moves that suggest that Derozan is in their long term plans. Quite the opposite. Why hold on to a car that you don’t want to even drive?

[Chinook]

He’s a depreciating asset. You sell when you can get the most value for him.

You can get value by using your car. That doesn’t mean riding out a depreciating asset until it’s broke down and worthless is somehow a smart move. You’re eventually going to have to buy new - or - trade in and hopefully maximize value.

You really can keep a car its whole life without selling it. I know a lot of people who have cars for 20 years or more and make out just fine. And that's in a world where cars get better, which isn't a concern in the NBA. Newer cars are inherently better than older cars, but newer players aren't necessarily better than older ones.


Your analogy doesn’t even work that well for SA since it presumes that the value of cap space for a small market is the same as at a place like Houston or golden state. Yes, using DDR now provides value in the near term. That doesn’t mean that letting his contract expire maximizes value for the franchise in the long term.

The point is that no one really cares about "value" except for folks like Morey and Hinkie. Like sure, if you're going to trade him, you want the most you think you can get. But what determines if you trade someone isn't how much they're worth. That's bullshit moneyball logic that doesn't work in a sport where team dynamics matter. DeRozan is a person, not just an "asset". His value is in what he can give, not in what he'd go for on EBay. Teams that win the trade war rarely win anything of consequence on the court. SA has long not been that kind of team, and their record speaks for itself.

[Genovaswitness]

pro derozan posters are fucked in the head

[SpursDynasty85]

No, I'm saying that if a Murray, Mills, Green, Anderson perimeter wins the same number of games than a DeRozan led perimeter, then the logical conclusion could be that DeRozan might not be as irreplaceable as you seem to think he is.

Unfair. The other team had TP and Manu. Derozan didn't have Muray. Infact of those players Derozan had Mills. This would be the year you really evaluate what a DD team could do, but with so many young prospects, trading DD is a viable option if the return is good enough.

[DPG21920]

You really can keep a car its whole life without selling it. I know a lot of people who have cars for 20 years or more and make out just fine. And that's in a world where cars get better, which isn't a concern in the NBA. Newer cars are inherently better than older cars, but newer players aren't necessarily better than older ones.



The point is that no one really cares about "value" except for folks like Morey and Hinkie. Like sure, if you're going to trade him, you want the most you think you can get. But what determines if you trade someone isn't how much they're worth. That's bullshit moneyball logic that doesn't work in a sport where team dynamics matter. DeRozan is a person, not just an "asset". His value is in what he can give, not in what he'd go for on EBay. Teams that win the trade war rarely win anything of consequence on the court. SA has long not been that kind of team, and their record speaks for itself.

So two things; You sound like you think trading DeRozan would be a mistake, is that accurate?

Also, you said LAC was not comparable, is that because of market? Because market had nothing to do with the logic of trading Harris; teams like PHI don’t give up more to LAC because Harris plays there vs SA.

[DPG21920]

And I dont understand the bastardizing of my logic. I’m not saying SA made the playoffs because they didn’t have DeRozan. I said they were good enough to make it without him.

Yes, SA has made the playoffs without LMA too; but saying “trade LMA” because SA made the playoffs without him too is not what I am talking about.

[Gordy58]

I can definitely see the Bulls as a legit trade partner. I’m sure they’re dying to make the playoffs, they got some nice young core pieces too. I’d take Porter, and Wendell Carter

[jbspurs]

DeRozan for Beal!

[Chinook]

Dude, really? I don’t know what is disingenuous at all. We aren’t talking about Duncan led teams. It’s a very specific LMA/Murray type team.

This. This right here is disingenuous. It wasn't an Aldridge/Murray team. It was an Aldridge team with tremendous defensive core in a league where three teams that missed (DEN, LAC and LAL) are practically playoff locks and one other (DAL) may well make it, against only two obvious drops (OKC and MIN) who theoretically could still make it. It's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Murray was a JAG on that team. He was a piece of a core, but simply having him in there isn't going to make up for everyone else they've lost.


Green/Anderson/Manu/TP/Pau are now White/Forbes/Lonnie/Poeltl/Carroll. I don’t think it’s at all a stretch to say the latter is more talented and it’s most certainly not disingenuous

It's certainly not straight-forward. You have four title-winning vets (and three HoFers) and an actualize Anderson versus a bunch of unproven guys or guys who were solid role-players. Based on pure talent, maybe you could argue. But based on track record and recent ability, you really can't.

[DPG21920]

This. This right here is disingenuous. It wasn't an Aldridge/Murray team. It was an Aldridge team with tremendous defensive core in a league where three teams that missed (DEN, LAC and LAL) are practically playoff locks and one other (DAL) may well make it, against only two obvious drops (OKC and MIN) who theoretically could still make it. It's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Murray was a JAG on that team. He was a piece of a core, but simply having him in there isn't going to make up for everyone else they've lost.



It's certainly not straight-forward. You have four title-winning vets (and three HoFers) and an actualize Anderson versus a bunch of unproven guys or guys who were solid role-players. Based on pure talent, maybe you could argue. But based on track record and recent ability, you really can't.

Well yeah, but TP/Manu weren’t prime players. Them being HOF helped them sustain value but they aren’t more talented and I don’t see what is disingenuous about saying talent > other factors when projecting wins/losses.

I didn’t say it was a LMA/Murray-led team; I was using an example of who was on that team and would be on this team with large roles. They were the main two then and now.

What will make up for what is lost from then and now (not including DeRozan since he wasn’t there) is White is much better than he was then, Carroll and Poeltl are here and Lonnie is now talent wise available.

Plus whatever you get for DeRozan is now added to that mix. It’s not some stretch to call that more talented and able to make the playoffs just like before.

[vy65]

You really can keep a car its whole life without selling it. I know a lot of people who have cars for 20 years or more and make out just fine. And that's in a world where cars get better, which isn't a concern in the NBA. Newer cars are inherently better than older cars, but newer players aren't necessarily better than older ones.

The point is that no one really cares about "value" except for folks like Morey and Hinkie. Like sure, if you're going to trade him, you want the most you think you can get. But what determines if you trade someone isn't how much they're worth. That's bullshit moneyball logic that doesn't work in a sport where team dynamics matter. DeRozan is a person, not just an "asset". His value is in what he can give, not in what he'd go for on EBay. Teams that win the trade war rarely win anything of consequence on the court. SA has long not been that kind of team, and their record speaks for itself.

You can keep a car until it doesn’t run anymore. That doesn’t mean that it’s the smart thing to do, particularly where the goal is to have the best car out of 30. That the spurs can hold onto DDR doesn’t mean they should. It sounds like you’re answering a question that hasn’t been asked.

Every team is concerned with value. Otherwise, no team would make a trade for team-betterment purposes. Why do you think the Spurs sent Kawhi away? They still had him under contract for one more year. Using your logic, the Spurs were supposed to hold onto him and get that last $20MM of value.

And yes, obviously, DDR is a person. No one suggested otherwise. That doesn’t mean what he can give the Spurs is necessarily the best that the team can get. That’s why trades happen.

[Chinook]

So two things; You sound like you think trading DeRozan would be a mistake, is that accurate?

Also, you said LAC was not comparable, is that because of market? Because market had nothing to do with the logic of trading Harris; teams like PHI don’t give up more to LAC because Harris plays there vs SA.

Market totally had to do with why they're "just fine" rather than a mediocre directionless team. Regardless, the Clippers waited until the deadline to deal Harris. They didn't move him early. They used him to win games and then dealt him. That's not what you're advocating. There isn't an obvious offer from a desperate team we're debating. You want the Spurs to try to get the most for him now because you believe it will only go down hill from here. West didn't do that.

[DPG21920]

Market totally had to do with why they're "just fine" rather than a mediocre directionless team. Regardless, the Clippers waited until the deadline to deal Harris. They didn't move him early. They used him to win games and then dealt him. That's not what you're advocating. There isn't an obvious offer from a desperate team we're debating. You want the Spurs to try to get the most for him now because you believe it will only go down hill from here. West didn't do that.

The dynamics are different; it’s known now that DeRozan is not getting an extension. That was not the case with Harris hence they could wait because he was not expected to walk. DeRozan is. That drives the value down.

[Fusternino]

Lot of revisionism in here. 2017-2018 with Murray/Green/Anderson and a healthy Gasol was probably the best defensive Spurs team of the past ten years.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

No, I'm saying that if a Murray, Mills, Green, Anderson perimeter wins the same number of games than a DeRozan led perimeter, then the logical conclusion could be that DeRozan might not be as irreplaceable as you seem to think he is.Parker and Ginobili were also on that perimeter and that makes a big difference. I understand though, your hatred for DeRozan blinds you.

[Fusternino]

Also, this team doesn't have the roster spots to even take back hardly anyone without getting a third team involved.

[Dennis the Menace]

Also, this team doesn't have the roster spots to even take back hardly anyone without getting a third team involved.

That’s how a good percentage of trades go down, quite common actually

[venitian navigator]

One point some of you seems to undervalue is the fact that Murray is the big time bet that patfo was thinking to have won since last year...to the point they were said willing to play him a lot (till his injury). LW4 game looks like very very similar to DDR one...if PATFO wants to put him on court from the start this probably means DDR is on the trade block just like an obvious consequence. The summer league and the way LW4 has been used, played and then took out of games seems to comfort this perspective...the fact that the back court roles are full (White, Forbes, DJM, Belli, Walker, Quindary, Mills) put DDR out of his preferred role. In few words, he'a actually a good fit for our team if he plays at the three all time long...because with Murray back, White playing well and Walker needing the ball in his hands (and Mills in case of emergency) his secondary play making skills are not so needed anymore.
I understand Chinook point, and I partially agree with the fact that without DDR we were out of play offs...that said, every player is also a market asset and if the signs are that he's not gonna be a long term player for your team you better watch out and make some deal.
Frankly that's what patfo did with n° 2 but did it too late...and don't tell me that what we received was his actual trade value...or that last season was not put in danger of being a non play offs team.
If you let a contract of an important player expire you have a problem and you better find out some solutions...but this don't mean that replacing him before his expiring can't be the best solution.

[DAF86]

Unfair. The other team had TP and Manu. Derozan didn't have Muray. Infact of those players Derozan had Mills. This would be the year you really evaluate what a DD team could do, but with so many young prospects, trading DD is a viable option if the return is good enough.

TP was one of the worst players in the NBA at that point.

DeRozan didn't have Murray, but he had White: a better player that fit DeRozan's game better too.

If you go player by player it's pretty much imposible to come up with the conclusion that the 2018 roster was better than the 2019 one.

[DAF86]

Parker and Ginobili were also on that perimeter and that makes a big difference. I understand though, your hatred for DeRozan blinds you.

Parker was one of the worst NBA players at that time :lol

Manu was Nice. Not better than White though.

[Chinook]

You can keep a car until it doesn’t run anymore. That doesn’t mean that it’s the smart thing to do, particularly where the goal is to have the best car out of 30.

If you have a car for 20 years and then just buy a newer version of that car, it's fine. Cars get better, so older cars become less valuable faster than their mere age implies. If cars stayed the same, the basic math behind when you should buy a new one would look completely different.


It sounds like you’re answering a question that hasn’t been asked.

Nah. You took the analogy into a different place. The point of the argument is that the car having less trade-in value alone isn't a reason why you should sell then. Let's say you'd get $1000 bucks less in trade-in if you sold it two years later. You could totally get $1000 worth of value just by not having to make car payments during those years or avoid an insurance hike. In that same way, DeRozan's value is that he can win the Spurs games while Murray, White and Walker prove themselves. Once they do, then you can consider a DeRozan trade, and if you get less then, it was still worth it because you had him winning games for you during that time.


Every team is concerned with value. Otherwise, no team would make a trade for team-betterment purposes. Why do you think the Spurs sent Kawhi away? They still had him under contract for one more year. Using your logic, the Spurs were supposed to hold onto him and get that last $20MM of value.

Nah. Kawhi said he didn't want to be there anymore. That completely changes the calculus. If DeRozan also wanted out, of course they should move him.


And yes, obviously, DDR is a person. No one suggested otherwise. That doesn’t mean what he can give the Spurs is necessarily the best that the team can get. That’s why trades happen.

You're missing the point. Rather, you're making a point we weren't arguing. Are there possible DeRozan trades that would benefit the team? Yes. But should they look to trade him now simply because teams may offer less later? No. You jumped into this discussion when I was arguing over if DeRozan's depreciating value meant you should try to trade him ASAP. If you want to just say there are possibly good DeRozan trades that PATFO should consider, that's really not the point we were discussing when you came in.

[acoelho1]

It’s not so complicated. If a deal improves the team, they will do it. Also, letting a guy walk for nothing makes no sense especially if he has value. The Gay deal has no relevance since I wouldn’t put him in DDRs tier. Also, we will see a big jump from our 3 guards especially Murray. They will all need time on the court and DDR’s game is just a bad fit. That’s not to say he’s a bad player but if he’s not part of the future, you have to explore trade options.

[Chinook]

The dynamics are different; it’s known now that DeRozan is not getting an extension. That was not the case with Harris hence they could wait because he was not expected to walk. DeRozan is. That drives the value down.

Oh so NOW the dynamics of the trades a different...

[DAF86]

Lot of revisionism in here. 2017-2018 with Murray/Green/Anderson and a healthy Gasol was probably the best defensive Spurs team of the past ten years.

A Spurs team with Murray, White, a 3 and D guy (like an Otto Porter for example) and Poeltl would probably be just as good defensively, and better offensively.

[venitian navigator]

Sorry...Walker not Murray was intended like the big time bet...

[DPG21920]

I never said the sole reason you trade him now was because of depreciating value; I said its part of the reason why I think it happens sooner than later if it does happen.

SA knows they aren’t keeping him and if they get a good enough offer now they will trade him now. They aren’t going to hold onto him to win a few more games if they get a good offer which is what you seem to be arguing.

[DPG21920]

Oh so NOW the dynamics of the trades a different...


In my context yes :lol I don’t see how you keep bastardizing this almost purposely at this point.

The dynamics of market are irrelevant; the dynamics of value due to situation are. These aren’t some mutually exclusive things.

[acoelho1]

I’ll also say we don’t need DDR to make the playoffs. We had no DDR or KL the year prior and we are going to be much better next year.

[DPG21920]

I guess here are the questions Chinook:

1) What is the ceiling of this team as currently constructed in your opinion?

2) When should teams (taking into consideration ceiling/floor) take into consideration future vs now?

[DAF86]

It's simple, do you think a lineup of, for example:

Murray, White, Walker/Carroll/Forbes, Otto Porter, Aldridge couldn't be good enough to win around 48/50 games and make the playoffs? I think it could.

On that case, trading DeRozan for Porter plus other assets becomes a no brainer. You mantain the same level of competitiveness, you gain further assets for the future and you acceleratte the development of players like White, Murray and Walker. It's a win/win/win situation.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs were better with Derozan off the court last year tbh

[ZeusWillJudge]

SA is NOT extending DeRozan and with that in mind on top of SA loving Dejounte/Lonnie/White, it makes sense to move DeRozan now while his value is the highest.


I haven't read the whole thread - I just happened to jump in at this page. Is that something that has come out for certain, or are you just saying what you think?

If they don't have any intention at all of extending him, then hell yeah you trade him. Partly to get some kind of value out of him. But also because that player option keeps you from making plans. I don't think anyone is going to pay him more money next year, but the option keeps the team in limbo while he goes out and shops. If you know he's exercising him option and staying, you plan on two years with him and then a transition.

If you plan on him staying, and he leaves, you're screwed. If you think he'll opt out, but you don't know for sure, you can't make alternate plans. It's just a mess.

Yeah, if they know for sure they won't extend him, they need to bite the bullet now. Get some value out of him, commit to a new direction, and get about their business.

[lmbebo]

Didn't we have a thread like this a few weeks ago ? :reading

[vy65]

If you have a car for 20 years and then just buy a newer version of that car, it's fine. Cars get better, so older cars become less valuable faster than their mere age implies. If cars stayed the same, the basic math behind when you should buy a new one would look completely different.



Nah. You took the analogy into a different place. The point of the argument is that the car having less trade-in value alone isn't a reason why you should sell then. Let's say you'd get $1000 bucks less in trade-in if you sold it two years later. You could totally get $1000 worth of value just by not having to make car payments during those years or avoid an insurance hike. In that same way, DeRozan's value is that he can win the Spurs games while Murray, White and Walker prove themselves. Once they do, then you can consider a DeRozan trade, and if you get less then, it was still worth it because you had him winning games for you during that time.



Nah. Kawhi said he didn't want to be there anymore. That completely changes the calculus. If DeRozan also wanted out, of course they should move him.



You're missing the point. Rather, you're making a point we weren't arguing. Are there possible DeRozan trades that would benefit the team? Yes. But should they look to trade him now simply because teams may offer less later? No. You jumped into this discussion when I was arguing over if DeRozan's depreciating value meant you should try to trade him ASAP. If you want to just say there are possibly good DeRozan trades that PATFO should consider, that's really not the point we were discussing when you came in.

1. The spurs “car” has the express purpose of being the best/fastest/most valuable out of the 30 others. Arguing depreciation is making my point - you want to fight that by getting the best value when you can.

2. There is functionally no difference between KL wanting out and DDR not being extended. In one case, the player wanted out, in the other, the team. The end result is the same. In both scenarios, it’s known that the player is not in the teams long term plans, causing a depreciation in value. Or even a fire sale.

3. While retaining a player who doesn’t have a place in the long term can provide short term value - there’s nothing to suggest that short term value outweighs the benefits of a) selling while value is higher and b) bringing in a player now and beginning the long integration process. You just assume that because Derozan has value now and can provide value until February, then any trade must be a bad idea. There’s nothing to suggest that new player couldn’t also win games or give breathing room for the new guys to get acclimated. There’s an opportunity cost and it seems like you’re only focused on the opportunity and not balancing the cost.

[DPG21920]

I haven't read the whole thread - I just happened to jump in at this page. Is that something that has come out for certain, or are you just saying what you think?

If they don't have any intention at all of extending him, then hell yeah you trade him. Partly to get some kind of value out of him. But also because that player option keeps you from making plans. I don't think anyone is going to pay him more money next year, but the option keeps the team in limbo while he goes out and shops. If you know he's exercising him option and staying, you plan on two years with him and then a transition.

If you plan on him staying, and he leaves, you're screwed. If you think he'll opt out, but you don't know for sure, you can't make alternate plans. It's just a mess.

Yeah, if they know for sure they won't extend him, they need to bite the bullet now. Get some value out of him, commit to a new direction, and get about their business.

I am telling people what I have heard.

[steak n eggs]

DeRozan getting traded has a better chance of happening than signing some big free agent in '21. Spurs fans with the hope of getting a signifcant free agent that year are going to be really really disappointed.

[Dennis the Menace]

Spurs were better with Derozan off the court last year tbh

[Dennis the Menace]

The reality - with the blossoming of white, walker, murray this team would win more games as structured with a Marcus Morris type rather than Derozan. Let that sink in

[DAF86]

DeRozan getting traded has a better chance of happening than signing some big free agent in '21. Spurs fans with the hope of getting a signifcant free agent that year are going to be really really disappointed.

That's another thing. By trading DeRozan you might get access to players that you would never even sniff a chance in free agency. Players like Otto Porter, Gordon, Covington, etc. Players, that even though aren't all-star level players, are high-end role players that would fit our team perfectly.

[vy65]

I can actually see Chinooks argument a lot more if Lonnie/Dejounte/Derrick aren’t as great as expected - which is a definite possibility.

[Degoat]

I think things could be kinda telling if DeMar isn’t at team USA training camp when they have it

[Dennis the Menace]

I can actually see Chinooks argument a lot more if Lonnie/Dejounte/Derrick aren’t as great as expected - which is a definite possibility.

Dejounte was looking better than Derozan in the preseason games before he went down with the injury.
Lonnie put up 16 points in like 6-9 minutes of playing time against Denver at the end of the season.
I’d say it’s more likely the Young Big 3 boom instead of plateau out

[mo7888]

For me it's a simple, if patfo can trade him for what they want then move him, if they cant keep him. I'm not in the 'absolute' category that says we must trade him....or it would be ridiculous to trade him. It's obvious that we are in a position of strength here (which is the only thing that matters) because we don't need to trade him and probably aren't really trying to trade him. We are simply open for business and if business is good we move forward if its undesirable we stand pat.

[acoelho1]

I can actually see Chinooks argument a lot more if Lonnie/Dejounte/Derrick aren’t as great as expected - which is a definite possibility.

Why is it possibility? We’ve seen all 3 guys play and PAFTO is extremely high on all of them. It’s clear as day that all 3 should have a big upcoming year. I think some people like to argue for argument sake. You don’t let a guy walk for nothing. He’s not Gay or Anderson which is a pretty laughable comparison.

[DPG21920]

For me it's a simple, if patfo can trade him for what they want then move him, if they cant keep him. I'm not in the 'absolute' category that says we must trade him....or it would be ridiculous to trade him. It's obvious that we are in a position of strength here (which is the only thing that matters) because we don't need to trade him and probably aren't really trying to trade him. We are simply open for business and if business is good we move forward if its undesirable we stand pat.

This is correct. There appears to be incentive to trade him since he can walk and SA has no interest in extending him but other than that, they aren’t just dumping him since he’s not toxic or anything and is a good player.

[FireMicoHalili]

Spurs were better with Derozan off the court last year tbh

Lmao facts https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1150048385119817728