spurs have the worst future in their division

[gambit1990]

.“i am right and i didn't move the goalpost. " you were obtuse. The idea that the spurs should tank sooner (trade LMAO and derozan) can't be tested because the spurs didn't. It just doesn't matter. You've admitted you support the tank. So not hypocrisy just being annoying.

If you want to be a real edge lord you argue for tanking in 2008 because 7 years between chips is too much,
it's incredible how some of y'all fail to grasp the point because you don't want to eat crow.

i posted this thread when the spurs were atop the divsion. the spurs should've moved la and demar when they had more value, period. this thread was about me knowing they wouldn't do that and suffer consequences later instead of tanking then and being in a better place now.

[tonight...you]

Accountability. Once Pop is gone new ppl will have the opportunity to build their own legacies but they won’t have the comfort of Tim Duncan, David Robinson and to a lesser extent Tony/Manu.

Those shot callers are going learn real quick not everyone has, nor deserves the grace period PATFO has utilized/previously earned.
It was always inevitable that the Spurs would eventually go from anomalous NBA royalty back to backwater, small town franchise like an Indiana, or Sacramento.
Hopefully it won't be that bad.

[slick'81]

Welp,damn

[Leetonidas]

:lol OP got shit on hard but turned out to be spot on. Pels looking good. Memphis is an elite team. Dallas has Luka. Houston has a solid young core. Spurs have Keldon :lol

If we miss out on Wemby and Scoot we're truly fucked

[slick'81]

I still hope houston gives us a run for our money

[Atl Spur]

:lol OP got shit on hard but turned out to be spot on. Pels looking good. Memphis is an elite team. Dallas has Luka. Houston has a solid young core. Spurs have Keldon :lol

If we miss out on Wemby and Scoot we're truly fucked

Way to early to be handing out medals ….. patience my guy

[niraj2000]

Scoot or Wemby or the season is a bust. This is the first season in 22 years when I am cheering every loss.

[Maddog]

As one person put it you are never as bad as you think are and never as good as you think you are depending on the result.
But damn-It's the 50th anniversary season...... of the 72-73 76ers. Arguably the worse team ever.

[offset formation]

:lol OP got shit on hard but turned out to be spot on. Pels looking good. Memphis is an elite team. Dallas has Luka. Houston has a solid young core. Spurs have Keldon :lol

If we miss out on Wemby and Scoot we're truly fucked

This thread being bumped is gonna piss off Dejounte something fierce.

[rascal]

For real though the Pelicans look like trash without a lot of ways to fix their problems.

You're wrong

[Sugus]

:lol OP got shit on hard but turned out to be spot on. Pels looking good. Memphis is an elite team. Dallas has Luka. Houston has a solid young core. Spurs have Keldon :lol

If we miss out on Wemby and Scoot we're truly fucked

:lol no he ain't, not close to, at least for now. You can read the pages/quotes where he explicitly explains that the point of his post hasn't happened yet - the future future.

You're falling into the same mistake he was: judging only the talent level of other teams' players in a vacuum, and adhering results to them. BBall isn't that straightforward; if all it took to win a ring was talent, the Kings and Wolves would've been fighting out the past decades' chips.

None of the teams you listed has made even a Conference Finals yet, and the Spurs are just now starting their rebuild. The thread was and will be predictably bumped, but OP and I both know this hasn't been settled yet.

[Mugen]

Spot on, OP.

[Sugus]

It only just occured to me that this thread was a reverse-jinx to ensure the Spurs land Wembanyama. I'm rid of doubts: we're landing the No.1 pick in the next draft. I'll be sure to thank OP properly after we're done celebrating...

[TD 21]

:lmao At the least talented team in the league picking a relatively low ceiling player with the 9th pick and likely getting very little from their rookies again despite having 3 of the top 25 picks.

But hey, at least we get to watch Vassell's efficiency crater while he pretends to be an on-ball scorer, while a confused Primo masquerades as a PG backing up the fringe rotation player starting in front of him.

There's no team in the league as in need of a centerpiece, yet you just know they're not getting a top 2 pick.

[Leetonidas]

:lol no he ain't, not close to, at least for now. You can read the pages/quotes where he explicitly explains that the point of his post hasn't happened yet - the future future.

You're falling into the same mistake he was: judging only the talent level of other teams' players in a vacuum, and adhering results to them. BBall isn't that straightforward; if all it took to win a ring was talent, the Kings and Wolves would've been fighting out the past decades' chips.

None of the teams you listed has made even a Conference Finals yet, and the Spurs are just now starting their rebuild. The thread was and will be predictably bumped, but OP and I both know this hasn't been settled yet.

This is just straight up homerism bro, no offense. Yeah we obviously can't know the future but it's not even debatable that every other team in the conference projects to be better than us for the foreseeable future.

Of course we can change that by landing a top 2 pick this season. But nothing I said is even controversial:lol it's straight up fact that the Spurs have no blue chip prospects and no star players. Every other team has one or the other or both

Also what super talented teams have the Kings and Wolves had in the last decade? :lol the Kings in particular have just been horrible at drafting

[K...]

This is just straight up homerism bro, no offense. Yeah we obviously can't know the future but it's not even debatable that every other team in the conference projects to be better than us for the foreseeable future.

Of course we can change that by landing a top 2 pick this season. But nothing I said is even controversial:lol it's straight up fact that the Spurs have no blue chip prospects and no star players. Every other team has one or the other or both

Also what super talented teams have the Kings and Wolves had in the last decade? :lol the Kings in particular have just been horrible at drafting

oh this is tiresome. Gambit was one of several posters that wanted to trade the LMA derozan core, a playoff spoiler level team, to tank. He argues that the spurs were in the dreaded pretenders area where they can't get better and don't get high draft picks. Many have argued that tanking isn't a panacea and you can get young talent from later picks if you are careful and lucky. The spurs did that with derrick white and murray. Then they decided to trade them for value in processs style tank. They did exactly what gambit argued, albeit three years later. OKC is ahead in their tank, Houston is ahead of their tank. Memphis is good, new orleans is good and raped the lakers for their HOF draft pick A. Davis.

It's stupid to say that SA, on year one of the deep tank, aren't going to equal OKC and houston in talent. IT will come, it doesn't even have to happen this year. Saying the spurs have less talent is true, it's a strategy, one that OP has endorsed.


Finally, we have two blue chips keldon johnson and Sochan. Both are major players on major college teams. They may not be the ones you want, they are not stars, but they're blue chips by the definition.

[Leetonidas]

:lmao cope

[lefty20]

Sure the OP is right.... until the Spurs get a chance at drafting at the top of the Draft like Grizz, Mavs, Rockets & Pelicans all have to get the current best players on their respective rosters.

[Atl Spur]

Sure the OP is right.... until the Spurs get a chance at drafting at the top of the Draft like Grizz, Mavs, Rockets & Pelicans all have to get the current best players on their respective rosters.

Exactly:) context is everything

[gambit1990]

Sure the OP is right.... until the Spurs get a chance at drafting at the top of the Draft like Grizz, Mavs, Rockets & Pelicans all have to get the current best players on their respective rosters.
here's the kicker... a) spurs need draft the correct player and b) they aren't going to all of sudden leapfrog the grizz, mavs, pelicans because they all have established rosters. grizz and pels were playing at a high level in the playoffs, mavs got to the WCF ...

on top of that, the spurs would be lucky to get a coach as good as the grizz or pels.

[lefty20]

here's the kicker... a) spurs need draft the correct player and b) they aren't going to all of sudden leapfrog the grizz, mavs, pelicans because they all have established rosters. grizz and pels were playing at a high level in the playoffs, mavs got to the WCF ...

on top of that, the spurs would be lucky to get a coach as good as the grizz or pels.

That's fair. It still starts with picking at the top and landing a potential all nba talent.

Besides the Mavs, every other divisional team has had multiple top 10 picks in the last 3-4 years, with Rockets and Grizz having multiple top 5 picks.

Those top picks don't guarantee shit, but they are a vital first step.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think the best example are the Grizzlies. They broke up the Gasol/Conley team when the Spurs had LA/DeRozan/Gay. The Grizzlies are back in contention already, the Spurs just started to tank

[poopbox]

:lol no he ain't, not close to, at least for now. You can read the pages/quotes where he explicitly explains that the point of his post hasn't happened yet - the future future.

You're falling into the same mistake he was: judging only the talent level of other teams' players in a vacuum, and adhering results to them. BBall isn't that straightforward; if all it took to win a ring was talent, the Kings and Wolves would've been fighting out the past decades' chips.

None of the teams you listed has made even a Conference Finals yet, and the Spurs are just now starting their rebuild. The thread was and will be predictably bumped, but OP and I both know this hasn't been settled yet.

Except for when we play other teams in the division they beat us more than we beat them :lol

Which sort of alludes to them being better than us :lol

[rankingtear]

HOU is still the worst team in the NBA talent wise in year 3 of their rebuild. I mean they are the worst team in the NBA for about 3 years now.

[offset formation]

Jalen Green is showing out and looks to have a scary good future, and not just offensively.

[Atl Spur]

Jalen Green is showing out and looks to have a scary good future, and not just offensively.

Yet still they lose

[offset formation]

Yet still they lose

Primo > Green because we won.

[Atl Spur]

Primo > Green because we won.

That’s exactly what I said……..bro get it together.

[TD 21]

HOU is still the worst team in the NBA talent wise in year 3 of their rebuild. I mean they are the worst team in the NBA for about 3 years now.

Parts of 3 seasons, but less than 2 full years since the Harden trade and they'll already assembled an impressive quality and quantity of young talent.

Their biggest issue is they have a bunch of pick-up game type players (Green, Porter Jr., Sengun, Christopher, etc.), so it's questionable how much they'll actually impact winning.

[John B]

I was excited for the win last night, but that was more of a trap game tbh. I’d think the Spurs a less than 25 win season and should get them a real shot at Victor or Scoot. Trade McD and Jrich by trade deadline for FRP’s, hopefully. Keldon/Devin becoming 20+ duo. I think this thread will not age well.

[gambit1990]

there's either a huge settlement or the spurs are in a worse position than we think. could be both.

this is big: wright being fired could be seen as an admission of guilt. if wright knew and pop didn't . . . did rc know? who on the coaching staff knew? what players knew / knew of which higher ups knew?

this happened nine times ?? did dejounte know? is he willing to spill the beans?

[Mr. Body]

Jalen Green is showing out and looks to have a scary good future, and not just offensively.

He's taken a big step back this year. Turns out there's more to basketball than just running and shooting and he's struggling.

They have a terrible coach, no offensive sets, atrocious defense. Houston looks awful right now.

Dallas looks stuck in mud. They're obviously good, but their ceiling seems low.

[gambit1990]

dejounte is a huge wild card.

if the woman's lawyer reaches out to him, no big deal. if the spurs reach out to him to see what he might know ... not a good look at all. their legal council might be doing that. smart on their part but also not a good look.

does this primo timeline fit in with dejoute being on the spurs? i only ask because dejounte left comments on instagram before this scandal about the spurs having some sort of problems ...

[rankingtear]

Even if Devin teabags ball boys we still better than trash HOU.

[KingKev]

dejounte is a huge wild card.

if the woman's lawyer reaches out to him, no big deal. if the spurs reach out to him to see what he might know ... not a

You can’t be serious.

[RC_Drunkford]

dejounte is a huge wild card.

if the woman's lawyer reaches out to him, no big deal. if the spurs reach out to him to see what he might know ... not a good look at all. their legal council might be doing that. smart on their part but also not a good look.

does this primo timeline fit in with dejoute being on the spurs? i only ask because dejounte left comments on instagram before this scandal about the spurs having some sort of problems ...

that's how I know you one of these internet clowns, cause 100% DJ ain't snitching

[gambit1990]

You can’t be serious.
i am.

DJ was literally commenting on IG that there's worrisome things about the spurs this past summer.

[gambit1990]

that's how I know you one of these internet clowns, cause 100% DJ ain't snitching
dude, you're the clown.

how do you know DJ isn't talking ??

i didn't even say he is but you're positing that he absolutely isn't ??

the spurs want a settlement asap. and when there is one, DJ being interviewed won't be public information.

[gambit1990]

let me spell it out for the mongoloids ... de-joun-te mur-ray has not had good things to say about the spurs.

he has alluded to other issues. google "he" and "has" and "alluded" and "to" and "other" and "issues".

all i did was ask:


does this primo timeline fit in with dejoute being on the spurs? i only ask because dejounte left comments on instagram before this scandal about the spurs having some sort of problems ...

can these retārds stop acting like i was asking about timmy or manu? :lol:lol

[gambit1990]

the spurs are street trash.

maybe they have a way better record than the rockets this season? that's the road to nothing.

[gambit1990]

Spot on, OP.
:tu

[rankingtear]

the spurs are street trash.

maybe they have a way better record than the rockets this season? that's the road to nothing.

So is drafting Jabari.

[RC_Drunkford]

dude, you're the clown.

how do you know DJ isn't talking ??

i didn't even say he is but you're positing that he absolutely isn't ??

the spurs want a settlement asap. and when there is one, DJ being interviewed won't be public information.

that's how I know you're a grown man spending your whole life behind a computer :lmao

[Mr. Body]

Dallas lost to an Orlando team without Banchero. Straight up think Mavs are the worst roster in the NBA for years other than Doncic.

OKC went to two overtimes against Milwaukee without Antetokuonmpo. Thunder managed to get four three attempts from Pokusevski and Dort at the end of regulation and the first overtime and all four shots were airballs or brickhouses. Just atrocious shooters and I don't know how they manage to keep running these sets where they're supposed to shoot.

[gambit1990]

rockets get the #1 pick and the spurs fall behind them next year?

[gambit1990]

jock landale listed as a PG for the rockets for some reason: https://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/hou/houston-rockets

[gambit1990]

some of y’all (a lot, tbh) thought the spurs could beat the lakers in a potential playoff series …

[Jordan Jackson]

some of y’all (a lot, tbh) thought the spurs could beat the lakers in a potential playoff series …
I’m convinced the people on this board do not watch basketball. Ain’t no way.

[KingKev]

jock landale listed as a PG for the rockets for some reason: https://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/hou/houston-rockets

Lol jokes he plays for the Suns.

[Mr. Body]

some of y’all (a lot, tbh) thought the spurs could beat the lakers in a potential playoff series …

Anybody could beat the Lakers in a playoff series.

[Mr. Body]

Haliburton with three straight games of 10+ assists and no turnovers.

Spurs done fucked up not picking him. I like Vassel but he ain't that guy.

They fucked up by not picking him and Sengun.

[slick'81]

Haliburton with three straight games of 10+ assists and no turnovers.

Spurs done fucked up not picking him. I like Vassel but he ain't that guy.

They fucked up by not picking him and Sengun.


Nobody is gonna argue they fucked up picking primo.They still had dejounte when they passed on burton

[TD 21]

Haliburton with three straight games of 10+ assists and no turnovers.

Spurs done fucked up not picking him. I like Vassel but he ain't that guy.

The crazy thing is, it was obvious at the time (and that was before we knew they weren't committed to Murray and White) and he's their type in virtually every sense.

[gambit1990]

Anybody could beat the Lakers in a playoff series.
uh, the lakers are 3-0 vs the spurs so far this season. lakers have won by an average of 15.67 points.

[TDMVPDPOY]

looks like if the spurms miss out on their guy in the draft, next year is another tanking season

[gambit1990]

there's some all-time bad takes in this thread...

lol Rockets :lmao :lmao
(spurs are 6-16, rockets are 5-16)


idk why you're laughing tbh. they have picks.

so do the Spurs, but we also got 6 young rotation players, 3 of them starters and have about 4 young third stringers. What do the Rockets have besides low Brooklyn Nets picks?

They are owed a group of likely late first rounders by BKN, and pick swaps that will likely never convey. Huge net negative.
Why the Rockets are the biggest winners from Kevin Durant's trade request (https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-durant-houston-rockets-trade-request-draft-picks-nba-212014882.html)


For real though the Pelicans look like trash without a lot of ways to fix their problems.

could say that about the spurs too tbh.
guess which one fixed their problems?


This one did age well at ALL.

I still don't know this team's future, but they sure are loaded. Dallas, Houston, Memphis, they all have issues, with Memphis the better situated other than the Spurs. People say SAS has no stars, but they're pretty damn close.
:lmao


Somehow someway despite the jeckyl Hyde season the Spurs are winning the division after this Boston win

https://i.ibb.co/PN3V42y/182-C5-F98-048-F-4-FAC-A295-EC3-AF5609-BDA.jpg

um... ja was injured... and the rockets were dealing with harden... AND the maverick will NOT stay under the spurs



It’s time to close this thread

Should have been closed the moment it was posted
:lol

[Sugus]

My, my... Is your life so barren of achievement that you cannot refrain from premature victory-lapping by bumping your own threads on a forgotten forum, Gambit? Sad.

It's even sadder once you take into account the 180° spin you did on this thread's purpose, and went all-in on it being about the future future, yet come here to "prove the haters wrong" with their "all-time bad takes" on... things that haven't even materialized yet (Nets picks), and things that are utterly irrelevant (Rockettes' and Spurs' standings on a tanking season)? Is your "gotcha!" bar truly that low?

Had you any decency to actually prove yourself right or wrong, you'd wait to bump this useless thread until, at least, one of these fuckwit teams you parade for actually achieves something of relevance, like a WCF or something. It's not much point of pride being second-or-third-furthest from the bottom, is it?

[Sugus]

One thing's for certain, though: this thread is the perfect anti-jinx. I just know the Spurs are landing Wembanyama in a Duncan-esque sequence, and it's all due to this thread. Gotta give the props where due - but I'll wait for the draft, myself :lol

[gambit1990]

My, my... Is your life so barren of achievement that you cannot refrain from premature victory-lapping by bumping your own threads on a forgotten forum, Gambit? Sad.

It's even sadder once you take into account the 180° spin you did on this thread's purpose, and went all-in on it being about the future future, yet come here to "prove the haters wrong" with their "all-time bad takes" on... things that haven't even materialized yet (Nets picks), and things that are utterly irrelevant (Rockettes' and Spurs' standings on a tanking season)?
i've pointed this out to you multiple times and then you just shy away from it:

you're missing the point of this thread. spurs could end this season with the best record in the division and my point would still stand.

this thread is about the future, future. not weeks or months. spurs need to do what OKC did and move their vets. especially instead of letting them walk for nothing.

spurs move demar, la, rudy for the right assets and i take this thread back.

i posted that early in the thread too. i never moved the goal post.

[gambit1990]

Sugus every time i show him the same receipts:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/giphy.gif


in two months he'll post about how i moved the goal post while never acknowledging that i clearly clarified, and doubled down on, the point of this thread.

[gambit1990]

i pay zero attention to draftees. i haven't watched a second of wembanyama play but that frame is begging for injuries ... you heard it here first.

[Sugus]

Sugus every time i show him the same receipts:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/giphy.gif


in two months he'll post about how i moved the goal post while never acknowledging that i clearly clarified, and doubled down on, the point of this thread.

:lol you keep parroting the same "receipt" as if your posting doesn't keep contradicting it. Future future, you say again, and again try to "clap back" as if any significant amount of time has passed to say with any certainty that the Spurs are worse set-up for the future than their tanking peers. Again, top picks ain't shit until you develop them into actually winning players and do something with them. If top-3 picks were the only factor in deciding which teams have the better future, and playing that out, the Kings would be 5-time-champions. Same for the Wolves, Cavs, etc.

Again, you can doubt the Spurs and Wembanyama's body all you want, but it's a fact that landing Victor in this years' draft puts the Spurs in a tremendously good position, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Chips are far from having been settled.

But hey, maybe Jalen Green carries the Rockettes to a threepeat, who knows. It's certainly a "future" to imagine.

[Sugus]

i pay zero attention to draftees. i haven't watched a second of wembanyama play but that frame is begging for injuries ... you heard it here first.

It's telling.

No doubt a lot of your takes stem from similar issues.

[gambit1990]

Future future, you say again, and again try to "clap back" as if any significant amount of time has passed to say with any certainty that the Spurs are worse set-up for the future than their tanking peers.

this thread is about the future, future. not weeks or months.
the window i alluded started a long time ago and isn't closing soon. it's been well over a year since the the original post.

[gambit1990]

and my comment about wembanyama was just a side note, not something directed at you.

[R. DeMurre]

i pay zero attention to draftees. i haven't watched a second of wembanyama play but that frame is begging for injuries ... you heard it here first.


:lol I see this comment about Wembanyama's frame/body type/height/length literally every day, month after month, on every basketball & draft/scout site! I can't even count any more the number of posts I've seen from hundreds of commenters saying why isn't anyone talking about Wemby's injury risks?! How am I the only person who thinks he'll always be injured with that frame?? Every single reputable scout and writer I've read has talked about it extensively, and it's probably the single most discussed aspect of his future potential on every site, replete with weight jokes, comparisons to Chet Holmgren, Ralph Sampson, Oden, etc, etc...

[B1gduff]

Just going off the division;
1 and 2; NO and Memphis are the gold standard in the division. They are going to be good for a long time. I'd put NO above Memphis, Memphis needs another star player next to JA.
3. Dallas, they actually need to get there shit together. They got Luka for the next what 5 years? they need to go hard and get a start or 2nd option to pair with Luka. Dirk stayed, yet from what the rumors are saying, Luka might dip after his contract his up.
4. SA, can't get any worst than we are.From here's it all about going up, and this the upcoming draft is probably the first true rebuild draft that we have, that has us with a chance at a top 4 pick. Just need to hit on it!
5. Houson; Similar to SA, but they really need to hit on the next pick espcially considering where they've drafted Green and Smith both have upsides, but Green is looking an inefficient scorer, while Smith is only 19 and has big upside, it seem he's isn't where many thought he would have been.

[gambit1990]

:lol I see this comment about Wembanyama's frame/body type/height/length literally every day, month after month, on every basketball & draft/scout site! I can't even count any more the number of posts I've seen from hundreds of commenters saying why isn't anyone talking about Wemby's injury risks?! How am I the only person who thinks he'll always be injured with that frame?? Every single reputable scout and writer I've read has talked about it extensively, and it's probably the single most discussed aspect of his future potential on every site, replete with weight jokes, comparisons to Chet Holmgren, Ralph Sampson, Oden, etc, etc...
maybe bold the first sentence instead of the last one?

[gambit1990]

i haven't seen anyone on ST mention that he might be injury prone.

[R. DeMurre]

i haven't seen anyone on ST mention that he might be injury prone.


There are currently three Wembanyama threads on ST and all three are full of predictions/concerns that he'll be injury prone due to his size & frame.

[scott]

Interesting tidbit I came across on Hoops Hype about the Bucks not having a full-time advance scout… apparently its from Pop’s influence on Bud and apparently Pop doesn’t believe in having one either.

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1832731/

[scott]

i haven't seen anyone on ST mention that he might be injury prone.

Lolwut

[Thomas82]

It's not looking promising right now, unless Pop is in CIA mode and not trying to make the tank look obvious.

[Jordan Jackson]

It's not looking promising right now, unless Pop is in CIA mode and not trying to make the tank look obvious.

it’s not Pops fault the last two opponents literally tripped over their own dicks to close out games against the Spurs. The man is rolling out lineups with no point guard resulting in straight up chaos - he’s trying.

[KobesAchilles]

Houston getting Victor and Harden :wow

[exstatic]

Interesting tidbit I came across on Hoops Hype about the Bucks not having a full-time advance scout… apparently its from Pop’s influence on Bud and apparently Pop doesn’t believe in having one either.

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1832731/

I think the assistant coaches split up the upcoming opponents scouting.

[JPB]

There are currently three Wembanyama threads on ST and all three are full of predictions/concerns that he'll be injury prone due to his size & frame.

Come on, mate. Let the kid feel he's special.

[offset formation]

Ok. I don't think there's anyone on this board that can make the argument that PATFO would draft the Flash again over Sengun. PATFO fucked that selection up 10 ways to Sunday and it's only gonna stick in my craw more as time goes on. Dude was CLEARLY the *Wright* pick. But PATFO got cute thinking they'd found another nephew in the bushes when in reality, all they had was a flasher in the bushes.

Gotdamn it. Sengun is really good.

[slick'81]

Ok. I don't think there's anyone on this board that can make the argument that PATFO would draft the Flash again over Sengun. PATFO fucked that selection up 10 ways to Sunday and it's only gonna stick in my craw more as time goes on. Dude was CLEARLY the *Wright* pick. But PATFO got cute thinking they'd found

another nephew in the bushes when in reality, all they had was a flasher in the bushes.

Gotdamn it. Sengun is really good.


its scola all over again

[exstatic]

Ok. I don't think there's anyone on this board that can make the argument that PATFO would draft the Flash again over Sengun. PATFO fucked that selection up 10 ways to Sunday and it's only gonna stick in my craw more as time goes on. Dude was CLEARLY the *Wright* pick. But PATFO got cute thinking they'd found another nephew in the bushes when in reality, all they had was a flasher in the bushes.

Gotdamn it. Sengun is really good.

Sengun is good on offense, but he’s undersized and not athletic enough to protect the rim. We’ve got 3 guys on our roster that do it better.

[offset formation]

its scola all over again

True! Not sure if Scola is worse though since we actually could have brought him on board through his buyout.

[offset formation]

Sengun is good on offense, but he’s undersized and not athletic enough to protect the rim. We’ve got 3 guys on our roster that do it better.

Fair critique. But so is this...the guy we did take is no longer even playing in the NBA. Meanwhile this cat is getting better every year and will likely carve out a 15 yr NBA career for himself in the mold of Scola, as slick'81 just compared him to. And that's about as apt a comparison asI could come up with. Now tell me we shouldn't have a Scola with better range, on our team.

[spurraider21]

scola is good on offense, but he’s undersized and not athletic enough to protect the rim. We’ve got 3 guys on our roster that do it better.
Fify

[paperboy77]

Fair critique. But so is this...the guy we did take is no longer even playing in the NBA. Meanwhile this cat is getting better every year and will likely carve out a 15 yr NBA career for himself in the mold of Scola, as slick'81 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17261) just compared him to. And that's about as apt a comparison asI could come up with. Now tell me we shouldn't have a Scola with better range, on our team.

Dont get the Scola comp at all. He is a really solid and improving player tho.

[paperboy77]

i pay zero attention to draftees. i haven't watched a second of wembanyama play but that frame is begging for injuries ... you heard it here first.

You definitely ain’t the first.

[exstatic]

Fair critique. But so is this...the guy we did take is no longer even playing in the NBA. Meanwhile this cat is getting better every year and will likely carve out a 15 yr NBA career for himself in the mold of Scola, as slick'81 just compared him to. And that's about as apt a comparison asI could come up with. Now tell me we shouldn't have a Scola with better range, on our team.

I’m comfortable with the pick we made when we made it. With a late lottery pick, you swing for the fences. I’m not picking a role player at a deep position, even if he’ll play 15 years. That doesn’t help the rebuild.

[2centsworth]

I’m comfortable with the pick we made when we made it. With a late lottery pick, you swing for the fences. I’m not picking a role player at a deep position, even if he’ll play 15 years. That doesn’t help the rebuild.

Jalen Duren's stats look good and he's only 19

[gambit1990]

Houston getting Victor and Harden :wow
yeah, HOU with a high draft pick + harden cements this thread tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Jalen Duren's stats look good and he's only 19

Are you under the impression we could have taken Duren with the Primo pick?

[tim_duncan_fan]

Are you under the impression we could have taken Duren with the Primo pick?

We could have taken Duren with the Sochan pick.

[JPB]

We could have taken Duren with the Sochan pick.

Duren was my man but Sochan is gonna be a solid and valuable NBA player.

[Mr. Body]

We could have taken Duren with the Sochan pick.

Why tho

[The Truth #6]

I think Houston has the worst future. Mainly because their last two top picks aren’t very efficient or showing they are worth where they were picked. So we aren’t the worst. Whew.

[slick'81]

Yea, sochan could be scary good

[Sugus]

Yea, sochan could be scary good

Not to mention a perfect potential fit with Victor: jack of all trades player, very versatile both offensively and defensively, can guard the bigger PFs and maybe even Cs in a few years in the league whilst Victor takes the smaller matchup to preserve himself. Especially keeping Poeltl, you could play him as an insane KD-level SF.

History ain't close to being written. Wemby train baybey! :smokin

[gambit1990]

why have them get blown out tonight? to be on national tv?

[gambit1990]

obviously the league does the scheduling. i just wonder if the spurs got the schedule and then chose the date. i guess that’d be unlikely, logistically speaking, though.

[offset formation]

I think Houston has the worst future. Mainly because their last two top picks aren’t very efficient or showing they are worth where they were picked. So we aren’t the worst. Whew.

Sengun? Dude just recorded a triple double. Has other NBA people saying he's a stud and that they should run their offense through him. This board doesn't get it on Sengun.

[offset formation]

Add Nic Batum to the growing list of Sengun fans. Just read a quote where he says he thinks he's a "baby Jokic."

Thats high praise and yet ppl here still trash him.

[slick'81]

Add Nic Batum to the growing list of Sengun fans. Just read a quote where he says he thinks he's a "baby Jokic."

Thats high praise and yet ppl here still trash him.

bbb front office loved primo's character :flag:

[The Truth #6]

Sengun? Dude just recorded a triple double. Has other NBA people saying he's a stud and that they should run their offense through him. This board doesn't get it on Sengun.

Not Sengun. I wanted him instead of Primo. Their last two top picks. Green and the other guy.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know if this board trashes Sengun at all. Most of us recognize he should have been the pick and Houston has a live one. The rest of their team sucks, however, and they have a bad coach. Sengun was traded off by OKC, by the way. It was a clear miss. He runs funny though.

[offset formation]

I don't know if this board trashes Sengun at all. Most of us recognize he should have been the pick and Houston has a live one. The rest of their team sucks, however, and they have a bad coach. Sengun was traded off by OKC, by the way. It was a clear miss. He runs funny though.

True. Jokic ain't the most athletic looking of players either but he gets it done

[offset formation]

Not Sengun. I wanted him instead of Primo. Their last two top picks. Green and the other guy.

Cool. Misread as Sengun. Yup, Green is not flourishing the way he should. This k they're about to fire Silas. Winder of that'll change their play much.

[exstatic]

Add Nic Batum to the growing list of Sengun fans. Just read a quote where he says he thinks he's a "baby Jokic."

Thats high praise and yet ppl here still trash him.

He’s an undersized, one way player, hence the descriptor ‘baby’.

[ambchang]

Add Nic Batum to the growing list of Sengun fans. Just read a quote where he says he thinks he's a "baby Jokic."

Thats high praise and yet ppl here still trash him.

Harold minor was baby jordan.

[Mr. Body]

I would definitely take Sengun over, for example, Zach Collins.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Sengun? Dude just recorded a triple double. Has other NBA people saying he's a stud and that they should run their offense through him. This board doesn't get it on Sengun.

Yep. Sochan May turn out to be a good pick but PATFO friggin’ blew the previous 2 drafts passing on Sengun and Haliburton. Haliburton is a franchise player and the best player in that draft.

[offset formation]

He’s an undersized, one way player, hence the descriptor ‘baby’.

Anthony Edwards says they should build the team around him. He's 20. In his second year and sometimes doesn't start. Yet getting praise from his fellow players. I think his peers know his value.

Sengun will be a perennial all-star by his mid twenties. We fucked up. Just accept it.

[slick'81]

Anthony Edward's says they should build the team around him. He's 20. In his second year and sometimes doesn't start. Yet getting praise from his fellow players. I think his peers know his value.


hes not a spur so fans must talk him down

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Haliburton is a franchise player and the best player in that draft.
lmao

[offset formation]

Harold minor was baby jordan.

Who gave him that name? Was he getting league-wide praise for his game at 20? Lots of ppl look like a flash I'm the pan. This is a different kind of accolades.

[ambchang]

Who gave him that name? Was he getting league-wide praise for his game at 20? Lots of ppl look like a flash I'm the pan. This is a different kind of accolades.

It was given to him by people you would talk down to push your point as opposed to a person who gave the baby jokic name, who is a person you would talk up to push your point.

I mean, Nic Tatum? Dirk nowitzki said kobe is the player of his generation, do you agree kobe was better than duncan?

[rankingtear]

Anthony Edwards says they should build the team around him. He's 20. In his second year and sometimes doesn't start. Yet getting praise from his fellow players. I think his peers know his value.

Sengun will be a perennial all-star by his mid twenties. We fucked up. Just accept it.

This was more a diss to their iso guards who have gotten trashed by other players lately.

[offset formation]

It was given to him by people you would talk down to push your point as opposed to a person who gave the baby jokic name, who is a person you would talk up to push your point.

I mean, Nic Tatum? Dirk nowitzki said kobe is the player of his generation, do you agree kobe was better than duncan?

At least they're in the same universe man. Harold Minor and Jordan clearly aren't.

And Sengun is no Jokic...yet. Nor may he ever be. But the dude is 20, getting inconsistent minutes, and still gor his first triple dub. And more to my point, he's getting league-wide praise for his game and impact on the floor.

Come on man. This has nothing to do with pushing a point based on a nonsensical comparison of Minor to Jordan.

Spurs fucked up. It's OK to acknowledge it.

[ambchang]

At least they're in the same universe man. Harold Minor and Jordan clearly aren't.

And Sengun is no Jokic...yet. Nor may he ever be. But the dude is 20, getting inconsistent minutes, and still gor his first triple dub. And more to my point, he's getting league-wide praise for his game and impact on the floor.

Come on man. This has nothing to do with pushing a point based on a nonsensical comparison of Minor to Jordan.

Spurs fucked up. It's OK to acknowledge it.

Minor got that name when he was in college.

The entire point is people always overstate the potential and they almost always fall short. They over pay for youth over and over. Can Şengün be a mini jokic? Sure! He’s 20, he can even be the next Lebron. But to take nic batums word as proof is laughable. Nba players are notorious for poor talent evaluators. They are generally horrible at it.

The spurs definitely made a mistake in primo. It’s not a debate any more but that’s with the benefit of hindsight.

[Ariel]

The spurs definitely made a mistake in primo. It’s not a debate any more but that’s with the benefit of hindsight.
No hindsight necessary, everybody but the FO saw it at the time.

[exstatic]

At least they're in the same universe man. Harold Minor and Jordan clearly aren't.

And Sengun is no Jokic...yet. Nor may he ever be. But the dude is 20, getting inconsistent minutes, and still gor his first triple dub. And more to my point, he's getting league-wide praise for his game and impact on the floor.

Come on man. This has nothing to do with pushing a point based on a nonsensical comparison of Minor to Jordan.

Spurs fucked up. It's OK to acknowledge it.

It sounds like you’re describing Dejounte. He was second all time on the spurs in trip dubs behind only Robinson, and yet, was only selected to an ASG as an injury replacement.

A trip dub at a young age doesn’t signify anything other than one great game. Dejounte has a boatload of them, and i don’t think anyone sees a bunch more ASGs in his future.

[ambchang]

No hindsight necessary, everybody but the FO saw it at the time.

Everybody but PO saw DJM, white, and KJ as useless end of 1st round picks too.

People were shocked at the primo pick then and kept harping on lottery pick this and lottery pick that, fact is 12th picks a most likely to be a low end starter or some role player bench guys. For a team as bad and talentless as the spurs I have no issues with them taking the risk and swing for the fence on pure potential. If he didn’t become the third Johnson on the team the debate would still be up.

[Ariel]

Everybody but PO saw DJM, white, and KJ as useless end of 1st round picks too.
That's complete BS. Dejounte & Keldon at the time were supposed to be taken much higher (even in the lottery), what was surprising was the fact that they were available that low. Quick google search:
Mock drafts for Dejounte:
13) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2647672-2016-nba-mock-draft-jonathan-wassermans-final-2-round-predictions
14) https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2016-nba-mock-draft/
15) https://www.nbadraft.net/2016-extended-mock-draft-6-0/
17) https://www.espn.com/espn/dickvitale/story/_/id/16420338/dick-vitale-2016-nba-mock-draft
20) https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2016-lsus-ben-simmons-to-the-sixers-at-no-1-looks-to-be-done/
21) https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-bulls/2016-nba-mock-draft
21) https://www.si.com/nba/2016/05/18/2016-nba-mock-draft
Average: 17,3 - Actual: 29
Mock drafts for Keldon:
14) https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-extended-mock-draft-4-0/
18) https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2019/
18) https://theathletic.com/1031345/2019/06/18/vecenie-2019-nba-mock-draft-6-0-live-updates-projecting-the-field-reacting-to-trade-talk/
(https://theathletic.com/1031345/2019/06/18/vecenie-2019-nba-mock-draft-6-0-live-updates-projecting-the-field-reacting-to-trade-talk/)18) https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/draft/2019/06/18/nba-mock-draft-predicting-entire-first-round/1486075001/
20) https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-nba-mock-draft-final-projections-have-hawks-taking-deandre-hunter-after-trading-up-at-no-4/
21) https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/sam-smiths-final-2019-nba-mock-draft
22) https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2019-nba-mock-draft/
22) https://www.businessinsider.com/2019-nba-mock-draft-experts-2019-5#22-boston-celtics-keldon-johnson-f-22
23) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841103-bleacher-reports-final-2019-nba-mock-draft
27) https://www.si.com/nba/2019/06/20/nba-mock-draft-trade-rumors-pelicans-grizzlies-knicks-hawks
Average: 20,3 - Actual: 29
So the notion that they picked players who were outside the radar is LAUGHABLE when basically Dejounte and Keldon were projected to go 12 and 9 slots earlier respectively and ended up falling into their lap. In fact had the Spurs thought of Keldon that highly they wouldn't have risked taking him at 29, when they had the chance of grabbing him at 19 and passed in favor of LUKA SAMANIC. So he could have easily been gone by then. My point isn't that the FO doesn't deserve recognition in the picks you mention, because THEY DO as they pulled the trigger where others didn't and that's the important thing, much in the same way everyone has a right to call them on the Primo pick, not only because it didn't pan out, but because it was always a stupid, stupid pick.

[scott]

I'm not sure most here "trashes" Sengun - but I'm in the camp that he is a player who would have us stuck in play-in purgatory. Not good enough to be a star, too good for a true tank.

[offset formation]

Minor got that name when he was in college.

The entire point is people always overstate the potential and they almost always fall short. They over pay for youth over and over. Can Şengün be a mini jokic? Sure! He’s 20, he can even be the next Lebron. But to take nic batums word as proof is laughable. Nba players are notorious for poor talent evaluators. They are generally horrible at it.

The spurs definitely made a mistake in primo. It’s not a debate any more but that’s with the benefit of hindsight.

Won't keep this going further other than to repeat, this is far from just a single player like Batum heaping praise on him.

Quick google search: Match these players that like his game with these quotes: Edwards, Gobert, or Giannis?

“He has been getting better and better, I think he is very unique in the way that he plays. The way that he is finishing. Last year he was turning the ball over more, but this year he has gotten a lot better.”

He’s a good player. He takes his time; nothing can speed him up. He might be slow in the post, but he’s effective. He’s playing well. He’s playing a lot of minutes off the bench and gives energy to his teammates. He rebounds the ball well. He’s being aggressive and sets good screens. I think the sky’s the limit for him.

“Me personally, I think they need to build around No. 28 (Sengun), “Jalen (Green) and KPJ (Kevin Porter Jr.) are franchise players also, but that dude is something serious. We had to game plan for him.”

Spurs fucked up. Hadn't business reaching for Primo when this guy's game was right before their eyes. They had him in for a tryout too.

Answer: Top quote: Gobert; Middle quote: Giannis; Last quote: Edwards

[Mr. Body]

I'm not sure most here "trashes" Sengun - but I'm in the camp that he is a player who would have us stuck in play-in purgatory. Not good enough to be a star, too good for a true tank.

Well, he's not exactly helping Houston win games.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Well, he's not exactly helping Houston win games.

So he likely wouldn’t have effected the tank as a 19 year old. But at 23 he’s going to be an annual all star along with Haliburton.

[ambchang]

That's complete BS. Dejounte & Keldon at the time were supposed to be taken much higher (even in the lottery), what was surprising was the fact that they were available that low. Quick google search:
Mock drafts for Dejounte:
13) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2647672-2016-nba-mock-draft-jonathan-wassermans-final-2-round-predictions
14) https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2016-nba-mock-draft/
15) https://www.nbadraft.net/2016-extended-mock-draft-6-0/
17) https://www.espn.com/espn/dickvitale/story/_/id/16420338/dick-vitale-2016-nba-mock-draft
20) https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2016-lsus-ben-simmons-to-the-sixers-at-no-1-looks-to-be-done/
21) https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-bulls/2016-nba-mock-draft
21) https://www.si.com/nba/2016/05/18/2016-nba-mock-draft
Average: 17,3 - Actual: 29
Mock drafts for Keldon:
14) https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-extended-mock-draft-4-0/
18) https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2019/
18) https://theathletic.com/1031345/2019/06/18/vecenie-2019-nba-mock-draft-6-0-live-updates-projecting-the-field-reacting-to-trade-talk/
(https://theathletic.com/1031345/2019/06/18/vecenie-2019-nba-mock-draft-6-0-live-updates-projecting-the-field-reacting-to-trade-talk/)18) https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/draft/2019/06/18/nba-mock-draft-predicting-entire-first-round/1486075001/
20) https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2019-nba-mock-draft-final-projections-have-hawks-taking-deandre-hunter-after-trading-up-at-no-4/
21) https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/sam-smiths-final-2019-nba-mock-draft
22) https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2019-nba-mock-draft/
22) https://www.businessinsider.com/2019-nba-mock-draft-experts-2019-5#22-boston-celtics-keldon-johnson-f-22
23) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2841103-bleacher-reports-final-2019-nba-mock-draft
27) https://www.si.com/nba/2019/06/20/nba-mock-draft-trade-rumors-pelicans-grizzlies-knicks-hawks
Average: 20,3 - Actual: 29
So the notion that they picked players who were outside the radar is LAUGHABLE when basically Dejounte and Keldon were projected to go 12 and 9 slots earlier respectively and ended up falling into their lap. In fact had the Spurs thought of Keldon that highly they wouldn't have risked taking him at 29, when they had the chance of grabbing him at 19 and passed in favor of LUKA SAMANIC. So he could have easily been gone by then. My point isn't that the FO doesn't deserve recognition in the picks you mention, because THEY DO as they pulled the trigger where others didn't and that's the important thing, much in the same way everyone has a right to call them on the Primo pick, not only because it didn't pan out, but because it was always a stupid, stupid pick.

FO doesn’t deserve credit when they got it. It deserves blame when they messed. Got it. Very irrefutable logic. Do you hire? I’d like to work for you.

[ambchang]

Won't keep this going further other than to repeat, this is far from just a single player like Batum heaping praise on him.

Quick google search: Match these players that like his game with these quotes: Edwards, Gobert, or Giannis?

“He has been getting better and better, I think he is very unique in the way that he plays. The way that he is finishing. Last year he was turning the ball over more, but this year he has gotten a lot better.”

He’s a good player. He takes his time; nothing can speed him up. He might be slow in the post, but he’s effective. He’s playing well. He’s playing a lot of minutes off the bench and gives energy to his teammates. He rebounds the ball well. He’s being aggressive and sets good screens. I think the sky’s the limit for him.

“Me personally, I think they need to build around No. 28 (Sengun), “Jalen (Green) and KPJ (Kevin Porter Jr.) are franchise players also, but that dude is something serious. We had to game plan for him.”

Spurs fucked up. Hadn't business reaching for Primo when this guy's game was right before their eyes. They had him in for a tryout too.

Answer: Top quote: Gobert; Middle quote: Giannis; Last quote: Edwards

Yes spurs screwed up and I already said it, so thanks for writing an essay saying I was wrong by saying that primo screwed up. My point was always some dude saying sengun is baby jokic as some proof he’s good is stupid.

[Ariel]

FO doesn’t deserve credit when they got it. It deserves blame when they messed. Got it. Very irrefutable logic. Do you hire? I’d like to work for you.
Sorry, not hiring people with such poor reading comprehension skills.

My point isn't that the FO doesn't deserve recognition in the picks you mention, because THEY DO as they pulled the trigger where others didn't and that's the important thing
But I'm sure you'll be fine as a Walmart door greeter.

[ambchang]

Sorry, not hiring people with such poor reading comprehension skills.

But I'm sure you'll be fine as a Walmart door greeter.

Do you have mock drafts for sengun? Did the rockets deserve credit for that one?m
And :lol poor comprehension skills. Read your own post? Where did under the radar come from? Keep inventing arguments to win and make yourself feel good. Strawman boss.

[offset formation]

Yes spurs screwed up and I already said it, so thanks for writing an essay saying I was wrong by saying that primo screwed up. My point was always some dude saying sengun is baby jokic as some proof he’s good is stupid.

Wasn't an essay. Those were quotes. From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game.

Why must you continually boil it down to Batum as though he's the only one high on him? And I acknowledged that he's not now nor may he ever be Jokic. But the idea that he's giving people that vibe at age 20 ought to be the thing you take from it not that he isn't.

[ambchang]

Wasn't an essay. Those were quotes. From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game.

Why must you continually boil it down to Batum as though he's the only one high on him? And I acknowledged that he's not now nor may he ever be Jokic. But the idea that he's giving people that vibe at age 20 ought to be the thing you take from it not that he isn't.
Because you said someone said he’s baby jokic and I pointed out someone pointed to minor as baby jordan. That’s it.

[exstatic]

So he likely wouldn’t have effected the tank as a 19 year old. But at 23 he’s going to be an annual all star along with Haliburton.

No he won’t. He’s actually awful on defense, like turnstile bad, and that will always limit him to playing reduced minutes on a good team. You can only play full time as an undersized center if you’re like Bam Adubayo long and athletic. He’s neither. It’s the main reason he dropped out of the lottery.

[Sugus]

Wasn't an essay. Those were quotes. From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game.

Why must you continually boil it down to Batum as though he's the only one high on him? And I acknowledged that he's not now nor may he ever be Jokic. But the idea that he's giving people that vibe at age 20 ought to be the thing you take from it not that he isn't.

You keep (purposefully?) missing ambchang's point, to a titillating degree, lol. He's completely right.

NBA players, no matter their calibre, are extremely bad judges of their peer's talent and future, and even worse, have a vested interest in not saying exactly what's on their minds, but what's politically correct, because they're damn well aware that everything's a soundbite/quote nowadays. But even assuming they're all being 100% honest, they're still shit talent evaluators (every single player that's tried to use their weight to "GM" their team, has failed miserably, latest example with LeGM and the Westbrook trade). There's a reason there's an actual GM, POBO, and other execs in charge of team management, and they don't just consult the players, even though they play against each other constantly and "should know best".

Don't believe me? The historical evidence is terribly stacked against you. Go look up any players' quotes and opinions on, say, rookie/sophomore Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Evan Turner. Andrew Wiggins. Andre Drummond. Etc etc etc. All praise, all future potential -- all jack shit. Players know nothing, that's why they're paid to score the ball, not judge their peers.

Lastly, I have nothing against Sengun, and he was my pick on that draft by a mile ( Dejounte (how are you, dude?!) can back me up on this for sure). I'd say the same thing about any other random 20 year old getting "baby X" and "future perennial All-Star" nods, tbh. They most often amount to nothing at all, especially coming from players, as opposed to coaches for example, who have the far better eye for these things.

[offset formation]

You keep (purposefully?) missing ambchang's point, to a titillating degree, lol. He's completely right.

NBA players, no matter their calibre, are extremely bad judges of their peer's talent and future, and even worse, have a vested interest in not saying exactly what's on their minds, but what's politically correct, because they're damn well aware that everything's a soundbite/quote nowadays. But even assuming they're all being 100% honest, they're still shit talent evaluators (every single player that's tried to use their weight to "GM" their team, has failed miserably, latest example with LeGM and the Westbrook trade). There's a reason there's an actual GM, POBO, and other execs in charge of team management, and they don't just consult the players, even though they play against each other constantly and "should know best".

Don't believe me? The historical evidence is terribly stacked against you. Go look up any players' quotes and opinions on, say, rookie/sophomore Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Evan Turner. Andrew Wiggins. Andre Drummond. Etc etc etc. All praise, all future potential -- all jack shit. Players know nothing, that's why they're paid to score the ball, not judge their peers.

Lastly, I have nothing against Sengun, and he was my pick on that draft by a mile ( Dejounte (how are you, dude?!) can back me up on this for sure). I'd say the same thing about any other random 20 year old getting "baby X" and "future perennial All-Star" nods, tbh. They most often amount to nothing at all, especially coming from players, as opposed to coaches for example, who have the far better eye for these things.

No. I've missed nothing. I'm using quotes from 4 guys about him. Not just 1. And hey if it's titillating to you, I'm happy to keep this line of debate going with you.

For starters:

LeBron is universally known to be a shit GM. Often wanting to team up with friends and aging talent. Doesn't understand caps, trades, etc.

And Wiggins and Drummond are all-star level players, lol. Hell, I think MKG made an all-star team once. Certainly above the average NBA player. But I'm not here touting them or harping on the fact we missed out on them in a draft we passed over them on for a player like Primo.

And who here or in the NBA exactly has the ability to better judge their peers talent than other NBA players. It's why they are paid the big bucks to analyze their games (see Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....)

Look, this is ultimately about missing on a player. And on that point we all seem to agree. So I'm content to leave this be, unless you want more titillation?

[Dejounte]

No. I've missed nothing. I'm using quotes from 4 guys about him. Not just 1. And hey I'd it's titillating to you, I'm happy to keep this going with you.

For starters:

LeBron is universally known to be a shit GM. Often wanting to team up with friends and aging talent.

And Wiggins and Drummond are all-star level players, lol. Hell, I think MKG made an all-star team once.

And who here or in the NBA exactly has the ability to better judge their peers talent than other NBA players. It's why they are paid the big bucks to analyze their games (see Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....)

Look, this is ultimately about missing on a player. And on that point we all seem to agree. So I'm content to leave this be, unless you want more titillation?

I don’t care for this conversation at all because it’s apparent no one will budge from their stance on the subject and because only time will tell… but uh Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq aren’t paid big bucks for analyzing the games of NBA players— they’re paid big bucks because of 1) name recognition and 2) entertainment. People who get paid to analyze players are called scouts.

[offset formation]

I don’t care for this conversation at all because it’s apparent no one will budge from their stance on the subject and because only time will tell… but uh Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq aren’t paid big bucks for analyzing the games of NBA players— they’re paid big bucks because of 1) name recognition and 2) entertainment. People who get paid to analyze players are called scouts.

I'll give you they are primarily entertaining. But if they were vapid idiots in their analysis no one would watch them for the past 15+ years. They know their stuff.

Also scouts are far from infallible or every draft wouldn't be filled with busts.

Lastly, the funny thing is we all agree on the main point here that Sengun was the right pick. We are arguing nonsense around the edges of that

[Dejounte]

Man, I never said scouts were infallible. :wtf

It’s more reasonable to trust a scout’s analysis on a player that they spend their 9-5 work day watching the same player and backing it with data than a player who bases his analysis on a player they play against four times a year at most.

[toki9]

As someone who wanted Sengun and was shocked (and disappointed) on draft night by the Primo pick, in retrospect, I'm not sure Sengun would have been the right pick at that point. I think many people recognized Sengun's offensive potential (with some questions--but hopeful--about his 3-point ability), but the big question mark was always on the defensive end. And the team still had Poeltl under contract. Also, and more tellingly I think, the team signed Landale merely days after--which probably meant that Landale was already in the team's plans when they passed on Sengun. So the team took a gamble on Primo, with the knowledge of having had their bases covered at that position. I don't think that's an egregiously bad risk taking.

If one wants to call Primo the wrong pick as a basketball player, than one is really judging him on his rookie year alone because he became a washout for a really non-basketball reason. One could argue that the team should have been better about their due diligence with regards to his background, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect the team to pick that up. So at core, this is still the same debate people had about Primo before he got cut--and it's not something one can really conclude without knowing what Primo would have become as a 2nd and 3rd year player.

[offset formation]

Man, I never said scouts were infallible. :wtf

It’s more reasonable to trust a scout’s analysis on a player that they spend their 9-5 work day watching the same player and backing it with data than a player who bases his analysis on a player they play against four times a year at most.

No you didn't. Wasn't trying to say you did. It's just the clear inference left that that position would be the one job title hat wasn't infallible, yet again, they routinely and repetitively blow drafts by misjudging talent. And it's almost universal in scope.

I choose to weigh a player's evaluation roughly equally to that of a scout because there are things you pick up on a player's game and abilities when you're actually on the court with them vs in bleachers with a pen, pad, and stopwatch

[rascal]

Man, I never said scouts were infallible. :wtf

It’s more reasonable to trust a scout’s analysis on a player that they spend their 9-5 work day watching the same player and backing it with data than a player who bases his analysis on a player they play against four times a year at most.

Not necessarily. Some fans could make better scouts than the actual scouts.

[rascal]

As someone who wanted Sengun and was shocked (and disappointed) on draft night by the Primo pick, in retrospect, I'm not sure Sengun would have been the right pick at that point. I think many people recognized Sengun's offensive potential (with some questions--but hopeful--about his 3-point ability), but the big question mark was always on the defensive end. And the team still had Poeltl under contract. Also, and more tellingly I think, the team signed Landale merely days after--which probably meant that Landale was already in the team's plans when they passed on Sengun. So the team took a gamble on Primo, with the knowledge of having had their bases covered at that position. I don't think that's an egregiously bad risk taking.

If one wants to call Primo the wrong pick as a basketball player, than one is really judging him on his rookie year alone because he became a washout for a really non-basketball reason. One could argue that the team should have been better about their due diligence with regards to his background, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect the team to pick that up. So at core, this is still the same debate people had about Primo before he got cut--and it's not something one can really conclude without knowing what Primo would have become as a 2nd and 3rd year player.

Primo never looked all that special on the court. It was a bad reach by the front office.

[offset formation]

As someone who wanted Sengun and was shocked (and disappointed) on draft night by the Primo pick, in retrospect, I'm not sure Sengun would have been the right pick at that point. I think many people recognized Sengun's offensive potential (with some questions--but hopeful--about his 3-point ability), but the big question mark was always on the defensive end. And the team still had Poeltl under contract. Also, and more tellingly I think, the team signed Landale merely days after--which probably meant that Landale was already in the team's plans when they passed on Sengun. So the team took a gamble on Primo, with the knowledge of having had their bases covered at that position. I don't think that's an egregiously bad risk taking.

If one wants to call Primo the wrong pick as a basketball player, than one is really judging him on his rookie year alone because he became a washout for a really non-basketball reason. One could argue that the team should have been better about their due diligence with regards to his background, but I don't know how reasonable it is to expect the team to pick that up. So at core, this is still the same debate people had about Primo before he got cut--and it's not something one can really conclude without knowing what Primo would have become as a 2nd and 3rd year player.

Solid post. Don't agree on the underlying conclusion that Primo wasn't an absurd overreach (remembering the main argument for us taking a kid that had at best late in the first or a solid 2nd round grades was that a team was supposedly gonna maybe get him around 15-20 -- which should have meant drafting the best player at 11 and then moving back into the mid to late 1st round later with some trade)...but a good post nonetheless.

[KobesAchilles]

Sengun should’ve been the pick. But we messed up and picked Primo. There were a lot of bs justifications for the pick. One being that Primo would’ve been a top 5 pick the next year (he wouldn’t have been). Primo was an obvious bad pick when we made it.

Sengun is putrid on defense. He has no feel for it. It’s not just he’s bad but he’s often out of position for no reason at all. That can be fixed by the right coach but even if it is fixed then he goes from an F- to a C. He won’t ever be a positive rim protector. That said, if he is paired with Victor next year then he wouldn’t have to be and I think his game would translate very well along side Victors offensively.

The Spurs just need a franchise player. All these C players are nice to have as long as long as you have an A player. We don’t. It’s a race between us and Houston to get one bc it looks like everyone else in our division has one. Victor is vital for us to contend in the coming years.

[toki9]

Solid post. Don't agree on the underlying conclusion that Primo wasn't an absurd overreach (remembering the main argument for us taking a kid that had at best late in the first or a solid 2nd round grades was that a team was supposedly gonna maybe get him around 15-20 -- which should have meant drafting the best player at 11 and then moving back into the mid to late 1st round later with some trade)...but a good post nonetheless.

Here are a couple of articles on the historical outcomes of NBA draft slots. They’re pretty interesting in terms of what you should expect out of drafts.

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

[offset formation]

For those that didn't see Sengun's stat line tonight...and a quick reminder that he is just 20:

33pts; 16rebs; 6assts; 4blks; 14-17fgs.

We fucked up...bad.

Should go to the Laker forum to see what they're saying about the kid.

Sengun became the second youngest Rocket behind only Hakeem to record a 30-10 game.

Sengun joins Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain to have 33/15/6 with 82 FG% in a game.

Did I mention we fucked up yet...and when I say we, I mean PATFO/Wright:bang:bang:bang

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, the Spurs fucked up a wet dream. I don't really understand how they blew this one that badly.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

For those that didn't see Sengun's stat line tonight...and a quick reminder that he is just 20:

33pts; 16rebs; 6assts; 4blks; 14-17fgs.

We fucked up...bad.

Should go to the Laker forum to see what they're saying about the kid.

Sengun became the second youngest Rocket behind only Hakeem to record a 30-10 game.

Sengun joins Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain to have 33/15/6 with 82 FG% in a game.

Did I mention we fucked up yet...and when I say we, I mean PATFO/Wright:bang:bang:bang
Will you whine for the rest of his career?

[Mr. Body]

Will you whine for the rest of his career?

We probably should. This was colossal.

[offset formation]

Will you whine for the rest of his career?

If that's what you wish to call it? Yes.

[Thomas82]

For those that didn't see Sengun's stat line tonight...and a quick reminder that he is just 20:

33pts; 16rebs; 6assts; 4blks; 14-17fgs.

We fucked up...bad.

Should go to the Laker forum to see what they're saying about the kid.

Sengun became the second youngest Rocket behind only Hakeem to record a 30-10 game.

Sengun joins Charles Barkley, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain to have 33/15/6 with 82 FG% in a game.

Did I mention we fucked up yet...and when I say we, I mean PATFO/Wright:bang:bang:bang

I just wish it would translate to some wins for them. From the outside looking in, they seem to be throwing games.

[JuneJive]

I wonder how will he adapt on the defensive side.

Will never become a rim protector nor will he gain mobility to defend in space.

Good luck with that.

[ambchang]

Spurs messed up big. We are now waiting for lottery balls while sengun is leading the rockets to the promised land. No two ways about it. The spurs messed up big time.

[offset formation]

I wonder how will he adapt on the defensive side.

Will never become a rim protector nor will he gain mobility to defend in space.

Good luck with that.

See the last play in this clip...

[URL="http://1615236607728050176]http://1615236607728050176

Furk. I forgot how to post a link in twitter...

Someone please do it with that number above.

[offset formation]

I just wish it would translate to some wins for them. From the outside looking in, they seem to be throwing games.

Yes. Silas hasn't even been starting Sengun despite the fan base screaming for his head over it. They know what they have in him and want to see him get more minutes. Last night vs Laker, he started and got like 36 min. Posted a career high in points.

Silas is either losing at the behest of ownership or he is sabotaging them via incompetence.

[offset formation]

Spurs messed up big. We are now waiting for lottery balls while sengun is leading the rockets to the promised land. No two ways about it. The spurs messed up big time.

I see what you did there and appreciate the subtlety.

[Ariel]

See the last play in this clip...

http://1615236607728050176 (http://1615236607728050176][URL="http://1615236607728050176)

Furk. I forgot how to post a link in twitter...

Someone please do it with that number above.
https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1615236607728050176
1615236607728050176

[JuneJive]

I could've defended that Bryant post up.
That's not telling much.

I'm not saying he's useless but for all his want he could, and most probably will, still end up short vs elite bigs and space attackers.

Him going drop coverage every single time is kinda predictable.

[rankingtear]

HOU looks a tier worst than whatever trash we put out. Why is there suddenly a Sengun hype? Did he learn to defend?

[rascal]

Yes. Silas hasn't even been starting Sengun despite the fan base screaming for his head over it. They know what they have in him and want to see him get more minutes. Last night vs Laker, he started and got like 36 min. Posted a career high in points.

Silas is either losing at the behest of ownership or he is sabotaging them via incompetence.

Silas is playing for Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

Houston is a mess in terms of draft picks for a few years after this one. This is their last chance to get a top draft pick for a little while, but this ain't how you tank. The players are looking terrible and getting worse. Only Sengun looks alright.

Sengun may not be a world-beater, but he's infinitely better than non-Primo. A lot of sour grapes here.

But I don't think the Rockets get their shit together for a very long time.

[KingKev]

I could've defended that Bryant post up.
That's not telling much.

I'm not saying he's useless but for all his want he could, and most probably will, still end up short vs elite bigs and space attackers.

Him going drop coverage every single time is kinda predictable.

Have you watched our two best players Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson play defense? Atleast he does multiple things on the other side of the ball very well.

[exstatic]

Have you watched our two best players Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson play defense? Atleast he does multiple things on the other side of the ball very well.

No one is claiming they’ll be multi time all stars like some around here with Alpo.

[offset formation]

I could've defended that Bryant post up.
That's not telling much.

I'm not saying he's useless but for all his want he could, and most probably will, still end up short vs elite bigs and space attackers.

Him going drop coverage every single time is kinda predictable.

What about his passing? Rebounding? 4 blocks? FG efficiency? As a 20 year old that's hardly started...

The desire to downplay this kid's overall game by slighting the one thing he undoubtedly knows he has to work on, is kinda odd. And he's not even terrible at it.

I promise you that you could take each young player and pick out something they aren't great at yet. But yet he's still defending the post with 4 blks.

[offset formation]

No one is claiming they’ll be multi time all stars like some around here with Alpo.

Yes, you're referring to.me. And that's exactly what I think.

[Ariel]

What about his passing? Rebounding? 4 blocks? FG efficiency? As a 20 year old that's hardly started...

The desire to downplay this kid's overall game by slighting the one thing he undoubtedly knows he has to work on, is kinda odd. And he's not even terrible at it.

I promise you that you could take each young player and pick out something they aren't great at yet. But yet he's still defending the post with 4 blks.
It's "sour grapes", AKA rationalization. Since we missed on him (in the most predictable and stupid way imaginable), some feel compelled to downplay his game because it lessens the blow to their fragile psyche. It's far easier and more honest to accept we f*cked up and move on, there's more to life than this.

[Mr. Body]

It's "sour grapes", AKA rationalization. Since we missed on him (in the most predictable and stupid way imaginable), some feel compelled to downplay his game because it lessens the blow to their fragile psyche. It's far easier and more honest to accept we f*cked up and move on, there's more to life than this.

Yeap, sour grapes. I'm ready to move on (mostly) - it'll be irritating to see him post good statlines our third-year supposed stars/leaders can't do. At least he's stuck on the Rox and not, say, OKC, who of course DID draft him but immediately traded him away.

(And then traded multiple picks for Ousmane Dieng the next year...

[slick'81]

Poor spurs

[Thomas82]

Yes. Silas hasn't even been starting Sengun despite the fan base screaming for his head over it. They know what they have in him and want to see him get more minutes. Last night vs Laker, he started and got like 36 min. Posted a career high in points.

Silas is either losing at the behest of ownership or he is sabotaging them via incompetence.

Bro, it's like they're not even trying to hide it now.

[offset formation]

Bro, it's like they're not even trying to hide it now.

Yeah I tend to think he's doing so at the guidance of the front office. And I like Silas so I hope he is losing purposefully because the alternative is that he's a bad coach. The fan base *hates* him and wants him gone yesterday for his rotations and offensive calls like sitting Sengun in crunch time, etc.

And I'd add one last thing, if he is losing at the behest of the ownership/front office, it'd be criminal for him to be fired for it. That's some low class shit.

[JuneJive]

What about his passing? Rebounding? 4 blocks? FG efficiency? As a 20 year old that's hardly started...

The desire to downplay this kid's overall game by slighting the one thing he undoubtedly knows he has to work on, is kinda odd. And he's not even terrible at it.

I promise you that you could take each young player and pick out something they aren't great at yet. But yet he's still defending the post with 4 blks.

I wasn't disputing his very good offensive game. That's pretty much a given, and with room to improve. Great from a young big man.

His issues are on the defensive side.
I see him as a tweener, neither a rim protector nor a defender in space.


kev why compare him to Spurs youth? Apples and oranges.

[ambchang]

I see what you did there and appreciate the subtlety.

All joking aside I think we guns got talent. Any other era he would’ve been the best player on a good team but not the leader of a championship team due to defensive issues, but he could be like a Zach Randolph or Chris bosh type player. In :lol todays nba though, I can’t even see him being a best player on a playoff team, or maybe even second best player.

He put up the best line of his career and lost to the lakers! Sure the rest of the rockets were just horrible low iq playground ballers but the lakers? With that line? That’s like some Sony seikaly or enes Kanter stuff.

[Thomas82]

Yeah I tend to think he's doing so at the guidance of the front office. And I like Silas so I hope he is losing purposefully because the alternative is that he's a bad coach. The fan base *hates* him and wants him gone yesterday for his rotations and offensive calls like sitting Sengun in crunch time, etc.

And I'd add one last thing, if he is losing at the behest of the ownership/front office, it'd be criminal for him to be fired for it. That's some low class shit.

Yeah, this looks like the ML Carr Celtics situation all over again.

[Jordan Jackson]

Yeah, this looks like the ML Carr Celtics situation all over again.
Yes it does. Good for them if they land a top 3 pick. Houston looks focused on accumulating talent and worrying about a roster construction later. The way people are laughing at Houston is the same way they laughed at OKC/Pelicans/Memphis. I’ve enjoyed watching their rebuilds to this point.

[Mr. Body]

Yes it does. Good for them if they land a top 3 pick. Houston looks focused on accumulating talent and worrying about a roster construction later. The way people are laughing at Houston is the same way they laughed at OKC/Pelicans/Memphis. I’ve enjoyed watching their rebuilds to this point.

Except the Houston picks have been trash, yes, you're right.

[KobesAchilles]

Except the Houston picks have been trash, yes, you're right.
Houston has been so bad that I completely forgot the Rockets are playing. Nobody here cares about the Rockets. I mean tickets are legit $5 and still nobody shows up. It’s pretty sad. I haven’t been to a Spurs game in SA in like 3 years. I hope it’s not the same way in SA as it is here in Hou.

Side note it would be hilarious if Charlotte got the #1 pick

[Thomas82]

Yes it does. Good for them if they land a top 3 pick. Houston looks focused on accumulating talent and worrying about a roster construction later. The way people are laughing at Houston is the same way they laughed at OKC/Pelicans/Memphis. I’ve enjoyed watching their rebuilds to this point.

I would love for history to repeat itself and we hit the jackpot a 3rd time.

[Mr. Body]

Houston has been so bad that I completely forgot the Rockets are playing. Nobody here cares about the Rockets. I mean tickets are legit $5 and still nobody shows up. It’s pretty sad. I haven’t been to a Spurs game in SA in like 3 years. I hope it’s not the same way in SA as it is here in Hou.

Side note it would be hilarious if Charlotte got the #1 pick

I legit think Adam Silver would make sure Charlotte doesn't get the pick. That would be the ultimate disaster for the league.

[K...]

Yes it does. Good for them if they land a top 3 pick. Houston looks focused on accumulating talent and worrying about a roster construction later. The way people are laughing at Houston is the same way they laughed at OKC/Pelicans/Memphis. I’ve enjoyed watching their rebuilds to this point.

I'm still laughing at okc and their middling talent. the pelikans got a godfather offer from the lakers that pushed them out, (if the spurs get a lottery pick this year, and all their future picks convey they'll be just as good), memphis is like 5 years ahead of the spurs in their tank and might top out as a second round out regular. Houston is fine if they know when to stop tanking and selling high on their talent. if they miss wemby what do they have to show going forward? their at square zero and have no momentum. The league is not the same as 1998! you get raw prospects you have to guide. Yeah, once every ten years you'll get a pick who is so physically ahead they immediately put you out of the lottery, but even lebron struggled with the cavs until he became LE GM.

[Ariel]

Except the Houston picks have been trash, yes, you're right.
The best Houston picks have actually been outside the lottery (Sengun @16 & Eason @17).

[Ariel]

I legit think Adam Silver would make sure Charlotte doesn't get the pick. That would be the ultimate disaster for the league.
If we don't get it, I hope Charlotte does. It's the best way to make sure they make the playoffs in the 2 remaining years for the pick they owe us to convey as a 1st.

[Mr. Body]

I'm still laughing at okc and their middling talent. the pelikans got a godfather offer from the lakers that pushed them out, (if the spurs get a lottery pick this year, and all their future picks convey they'll be just as good), memphis is like 5 years ahead of the spurs in their tank and might top out as a second round out regular. Houston is fine if they know when to stop tanking and selling high on their talent. if they miss wemby what do they have to show going forward? their at square zero and have no momentum. The league is not the same as 1998! you get raw prospects you have to guide. Yeah, once every ten years you'll get a pick who is so physically ahead they immediately put you out of the lottery, but even lebron struggled with the cavs until he became LE GM.

Pelicans' GM had a exceptional draft pulling three starter-level players, then traded for McCollum. They lucked out getting Zion.

OKC is good mostly because of SGA, and that was Kawhi forcing LAC to dump him on them (with tons of draft picks). Lucky, lucky. Their draft picks are... eh. The fanbase fucking loves Dort for some reason. Giddey is a nice player. The rest? Ehhhhh.

[Mr. Body]

If we don't get it, I hope Charlotte does. It's the best way to make sure they make the playoffs in the 2 remaining years for the pick they owe us to convey as a 1st.

I can't imagine Wembanyama with a 'just do whatever the fuck' player like Lamello Ball running the show.

[Sugus]

No. I've missed nothing. I'm using quotes from 4 guys about him. Not just 1. And hey if it's titillating to you, I'm happy to keep this line of debate going with you.

For starters:

LeBron is universally known to be a shit GM. Often wanting to team up with friends and aging talent. Doesn't understand caps, trades, etc.

And Wiggins and Drummond are all-star level players, lol. Hell, I think MKG made an all-star team once. Certainly above the average NBA player. But I'm not here touting them or harping on the fact we missed out on them in a draft we passed over them on for a player like Primo.

And who here or in the NBA exactly has the ability to better judge their peers talent than other NBA players. It's why they are paid the big bucks to analyze their games (see Kenny, Chuck, and Shaq, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....)

Look, this is ultimately about missing on a player. And on that point we all seem to agree. So I'm content to leave this be, unless you want more titillation?

Bahaha, I'm not looking for titillation, a basketball discussion is perfectly fine for me. I'll give it one more try, and we can agree to disagree afterwards if you'd like. But I'll always be up for talking ball; this forum is the only place I get to do that, as my IRL friends and peers aren't into the NBA or care for it. Anyways...

Let me tell you first that yes, we agree on the main point that Sengun should've been the pick all along. Even though I came to like Primo before his dick-whipping saga, I was team Sengun from the go, and in general hold Euro prospects in a better regard than most. My gripe with your POV is in the way that you're conflating players giving their flowers to a young, and promising, player, as those flowers being literal (or accurate) predictions on how he'll actually turn out to be. And I quote you directly -- "From like a 2 time MVP saying the kid has potential "sky is the limit" game".

Since you did the "for starters" section, let me do a "for sophomores" counterpoint;

LeBron is a bad GM, we agree - and that's my point! No matter how high his BBIQ, the fact that he's played literally every single player in the NBA a billion times over almost 20 years, and perfectly knows how to win rings and what it takes -- he still makes terrible talent evaluations on players, and is largely responsible for the Lakers' current woes. I struggle to see why you thought this was a point in your favor? If the modern GOAT isn't a good talent evaluator, why'd you rely on much lesser players' evaluations as gospel?

Wiggins and Drummond are All-Star level players, in the same way that Dejounte was an All-Star level player. Not really. The former -- AKA "Maple Jordan" btw -- didn't make his first AS game until he was traded to a massive fanbase in GS, and furthered by that KPop shit voting or whatever. Drummond is a similarly empty player accolades-wise, and hasn't managed to stick on any team in his career because he flat out sucks, beyond what any counting stat can tell you. These are not the players you want backing your argument... Little individual success, no team success that's not getting carried by Curry, and yet how many players praised both of these players through the years? That's my point - not saying whether these players turn out to be "above average", who cares about that lmao. You skipped Evan Turners btw, who I think is a great example of this phenomena.

:lmao Kenny Chuck and Shaq, these are literal entertainers. Not real analysts and much less actual, informed scouts. You can easily find clips online of Chuck himself admitting to not even watching games :lol. In any case, is it really controversial to say that yes, the scouts who are paid "the big bucks" to analyze players and prospects might just have the better eye for talent, and predicting ability, over players, who are paid the big bucks to put the ball through the hoop? Would you really say, at your job for example, that you're a better evaluator for your peer's work than say, your boss, or that you'd better predict a job candidate's future performance than the HR interviewers who are trained to handpick employees?

Yes, I know they miss all the time; yes I know scouts are wrong and stupid too. They're people - fallible, gullible, manipulable. But I'd still trust their opinions any day over those of NBA players being asked for their opinions on a peer (who again, might be a future teammate someday, further incentivizing these players to always give a positive, PR answer to avoid making enemies!). I think it's a very fair point to make, nevermind Sengun, for any player in the NBA.

[Sugus]

I can't imagine Wembanyama with a 'just do whatever the fuck' player like Lamello Ball running the show.

I can actually imagine them working out great together. Wemby would be the absolute perfect match for a passing and shooting PG like LaMelo, both in terms of cleaning up the glass after misses, being a ridiculous lob threat, and being nimble enough to allow an uptempo style of play. Not to mention Wemby's very "modern" offensive game, with the pull-up 3's and whatnot.

But more importantly, I'd love for Charlotte to keep its relevance in case we're not the ones getting Wemby. Parity across the league is good for everyone, and a superstar (or superstar-level prospect for the matter) on every market is a great step towards that. I'd much rather see him there than, of course, HOU or DET, but also the worst-case of the Lakers gifting Wemby to the Pels.

[Drom John]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR 597 minute minimum (their default)

70th 2.5 WAR Jaylen Brown, Kahwi Leonard (playing time hit), Jusuf Nurkic, Alperen Sengun

Sengun
+1.2 Offensive Raptor
+0.6 Defensive Raptor

Centers only (not just true centers)
20th WAR
13th on offense, tied with Mason Plumlee
28th on defense, tied with Brandon Clarke, Drew Eubanks, Kevon Looney, Ivica Zubac

[Thomas82]

I can't imagine Wembanyama with a 'just do whatever the fuck' player like Lamello Ball running the show.

I can imagine him telling Charlotte to skip him if they win the lottery.

[KobesAchilles]

We are back boys! Thank you Dallas for ruining your franchise! Hell with Zion getting injured all the time and Memphis on the verge of becoming the jail blazers, we might just take this division back in two years time.

[RC_Drunkford]

We are back boys! Thank you Dallas for ruining your franchise! Hell with Zion getting injured all the time and Memphis on the verge of becoming the jail blazers, we might just take this division back in two years time.

we are not back until we know who we get in the draft

[gambit1990]

it'll be interesting to see if the nets move KD and have a reset.

bad news for the nets is good news for the rockets.

[K...]

it'll be interesting to see if the nets move KD and have a reset.

bad news for the nets is good news for the rockets.

dude you the trade deadline thread. stop being dumb about how forums work

[offset formation]

it'll be interesting to see if the nets move KD and have a reset.

bad news for the nets is good news for the rockets.

it's hard to imagine a scenario where Houston isn't getting top ten or better picks out of those picks/pick swaps for at least some of the traded picks through 2029. Brooklyn is likely to suck sooner than later. And if they don't, then Sean Marks and Jacque Vaughn pulled a rabbit out of their hats

[DPG21920]

it's hard to imagine a scenario where Houston isn't getting top ten or better picks out of those picks/pick swaps for at least some of the traded picks through 2029. Brooklyn is likely to suck sooner than later. And if they don't, then Sean Marks and Jacque Vaughn pulled a rabbit out of their hats

Honestly - I can see Rockets trading for KD lol. IF BKY is blowing it up and KD wants out why not call HOU, get your picks back and HOU gets a chance to make a leap? HOU will have capspace to absorb a lot of KD salary and can send a bunch of picks and salary savings to BKY

[offset formation]

dude you the trade deadline thread. stop being dumb about how forums work

This is about Spurs and their division opponents' near term future. His post was perfectly germane to this thread

[gambit1990]

dude you the trade deadline thread. stop being dumb about how forums work
my post was ultimately about the rockets' picks. which is directly related to this thread.

[offset formation]

Honestly - I can see Rockets trading for KD lol. IF BKY is blowing it up and KD wants out why not call HOU, get your picks back and HOU gets a chance to make a leap? HOU will have capspace to absorb a lot of KD salary and can send a bunch of picks and salary savings to BKY

Hmmm. Interesting. Currently Houston has them bent over a barrel. How much is KD worth at this point of his career given he's only won with 3 other future HOFs on the court with him. Quite honestly as I think about it, if I'm Houston I stay away from that trade, *UNLESS* you get Wembanyama in this year's draft.

[MannyIsGod]

Why the fuck would KD want to go to Houston though? Does Houston really want to give up a lot for a dude that likely doesnt' want to be there?

[gambit1990]

Honestly - I can see Rockets trading for KD lol. IF BKY is blowing it up and KD wants out why not call HOU, get your picks back and HOU gets a chance to make a leap? HOU will have capspace to absorb a lot of KD salary and can send a bunch of picks and salary savings to BKY
if i'm HOU then i'm asking the nets for permission to speak to KD. then i'd promise KD that harden will come back in the offseason to satisfy kevin.

[XDT76]

if i'm HOU then i'm asking the nets for permission to speak to KD. then i'd promise KD that harden will come back in the offseason to satisfy kevin.

KD doesn't even want Harden on his all star team why would he want him as a team mate.

[gambit1990]

KD doesn't even want Harden on his all star team why would he want him as a team mate.
old news tbh.

there was a rumor KD wanted to get traded to philly.

[Ariel]

Hmmm. Interesting. Currently Houston has them bent over a barrel. How much is KD worth at this point of his career given he's only won with 3 other future HOFs on the court with him. Quite honestly as I think about it, if I'm Houston I stay away from that trade, *UNLESS* you get Wembanyama in this year's draft.
If an expiring Kyrie got the offer from Dallas that was ultimately accepted or the one from the Clippers (1 unprotected first rounder + 2 unprotected swaps + Terance Mann + Kennard), then Durant (shouldn't, but) could command Gobert like haul. There aren't that man picks available, but you could see crazy offers from New Orleans (Ingram, Daniels, fillers + picks), Boston (Jaylen Brown, Derrick White, filler + picks), Toronto (Siakam, OG Anunoby + picks), Phoenix (Bridges, Ayton, filler + picks), etc.

[gambit1990]

and especially old news now cause KD really, really knows this entire debacle has been kyrie's fault.

[DPG21920]

Why the fuck would KD want to go to Houston though? Does Houston really want to give up a lot for a dude that likely doesnt' want to be there?

Fair question but after KD asking for those teammates who burned BKY and asking for a coach to be fired and getting everything he wants and still asking for a trade and not seeing it through? What he wants goes out the window some since he’s under contract (like Kawhi having to go to TOR vs where he wanted).

HOU can give up a bunch of BKY picks and still have their own which is really nice. Sure, would giving up those picks to BKY sting if KD left in 2 years? Ya, but they would still have a nice stash of picks too in that even and cap space and probably most of their young core (guessing they may have to send one of Jabari or Jalen Green with BKYs picks back).

HOU would still have some space and picks to trade for a running mate KD likes to try and really leap too.

Just saying it makes some sense but who knows where KD head is at

[KobesAchilles]

Man this year is super important for us to win the damn lottery. Bc Lakers might give NO a top 3 pick and Brooklyn might give the Rockets a number one pick in the coming years.

[gambit1990]

if the season ended today then what’s the worst pick the spurs could end up with? #3? #5?

[LeBowen]

if the season ended today then what’s the worst pick the spurs could end up with? #3? #5?

https://i.imgur.com/CYeXCrr.png

[Ariel]

if the season ended today then what’s the worst pick the spurs could end up with? #3? #5?
The math is simple: add 4 to the position of team record (worst to best), capped at 14. So if we finish with he 3rd worst record, worst possible pick is 3 + 4 = 7, corresponding to the case where the top 4 lottery spots are awarded to teams with a better record than yours.

[spurraider21]

This is about Spurs and their division opponents' near term future. His post was perfectly germane to this thread


my post was ultimately about the rockets' picks. which is directly related to this thread.
the problem is nobody gives a shit about this thread except OP. all he does is bump the thread to stroke himself

https://i.gyazo.com/ab0a929102ab1a39d03f432153f4df50.png

[gambit1990]

the problem is nobody gives a shit about this thread except OP. all he does is bump the thread to stroke himself

https://i.gyazo.com/ab0a929102ab1a39d03f432153f4df50.png
there's so many posts because i replied to everyone. there were a lot of people thought this thread was insane. it was nearly everyone.

and the post i made is even more relevant now:

it'll be interesting to see if the nets move KD and have a reset.

bad news for the nets is good news for the rockets.

[gambit1990]

spurraider21, MIA.

[gambit1990]

spurraider21 before KD got traded:
https://media.tenor.com/ry7UwHxZLwAAAAAC/charlie-murphy-wrong.gif

spurraider21 after KD got traded:
https://media.tenor.com/DMW-3zk-xtQAAAAM/coward-wizard-of-oz.gif

[KingKev]

This thread needs to be pinned. Even with Wemby the thread title remains true.

[gambit1990]

DPG21920 in 2023, catching on after two years of disagreeing with me, like usual:

I am going to jump off of a very high cliff if HOU lands Wemby lol

Mavs: Generational talent in Luka

NO: Possible multi all nba maybe MVP caliber if healthy Zion + extra picks

MEM: Franchise engine in Ja and JJJ

HOU: Generational talent possibly in Wemby + all of imploded BKY picks

SA: Khem Birch and a lottery protected pick lmao

me, in 2021:

mavs have luka
griz have ja
pels have zion
rockets have picks

[rascal]

Thread was spot on when it was started.

Spurs have sunk to the bottom and have to get lucky in the draft to bail themselves out now.

[KingKev]

Tag your favourite sniffer….

[DPG21920]

DPG21920 in 2023, catching on after two years of disagreeing with me, like usual:


me, in 2021:

Spurs still ahead of Rockets IMVHO. But ya, if they land Wemby they leap SA. NO looks rocky but of course they are ahead if their guys stay healthy. I don’t think SA future looks bad and things can change fast to move SA into that same tier(s)

Also what? I don’t remember even posting in this thread :lol Where did I disagree in this thread too much?

[The Truth #6]

Obviously, the Kawhi debacle set us back, though how the FO reacted was much more of the problem. However, Pop was going for his record so the franchise future was put in limbo. He deserved to do that for all he's done, but the DDR years were awful, worse than now in my opinion. As to the beginning of this thread, I remember most shitting on the OP because he seems like a troll but his point had some merit.

[JPB]

Obviously, the Kawhi debacle set us back, though how the FO reacted was much more of the problem. However, Pop was going for his record so the franchise future was put in limbo. He deserved to do that for all he's done, but the DDR years were awful, worse than now in my opinion. As to the beginning of this thread, I remember most shitting on the OP because he seems like a troll but his point had some merit.

Nobody was trashing OP for making a point, but for the way he stated it as an absolute fact, with mostly irrelevant arguments, bumping his own thread every other insignificant stuff was happening to self glorify about the fact spurs HAD the worst future...

Truth is chance or hazard will have a big part in determining who has the best furure... Obviously whoever draft wemby is on a better road. This isn't an exact science and a lot of things can happen anyway (drafts, injuries...) and certainly not what some forum members can make ultimate judgments about...

And if you look at all the division teams, no one can really say where they'll be in 4 or 5 years... HOU is publicly dysfonctional and NO may have a problem with Zion...

[KingKev]

^ OP was reminding most of you how clueless you were/are.

[The Truth #6]

Nobody was trashing OP for making a point, but for the way he stated it as an absolute fact, with mostly irrelevant arguments, bumping his own thread every other insignificant stuff was happening to self glorify about the fact spurs HAD the worst future...

Truth is chance or hazard will have a big part in determining who has the best furure... Obviously whoever draft wemby is on a better road. This isn't an exact science and a lot of things can happen anyway (drafts, injuries...) and certainly not what some forum members can make ultimate judgments about...

And if you look at all the division teams, no one can really say where they'll be in 4 or 5 years... HOU is publicly dysfonctional, NO may have a problem with Zion, OK possibly with Chet and a GM who doesn't seem to be able to really make something with all the picks he collects...

Fair points. We have a much more stable organization with FO and owners on the same page. The Rockets owner is a douche, and on a side note owns some of the more obnoxious restaurants on the Riverwalk so that's another reason for locals at least to not like him. And so while HOU has had better drafting opportunities, I don't think they will do better. But I'm not here to defend the OP. I wasn't paying attention to most of the back and forth, but I do recall others upset at the post for a variety of reasons, from "truth hurts" to the OP being disingenuous. I think the original post became more true over time when we traded everyone away, but then that is simply part of our rebuild. Anyway. Just rambling here.

[gambit1990]

Nobody was trashing OP for making a point
try looking at the first ten pages of this thread maybe ??

and then try looking at every page since then?

[gambit1990]

Truth is chance or hazard will have a big part in determining who has the best furure... Obviously whoever draft wemby is on a better road. This isn't an exact science and a lot of things can happen anyway (drafts, injuries...) and certainly not what some forum members can make ultimate judgments about...

And if you look at all the division teams, no one can really say where they'll be in 4 or 5 years... HOU is publicly dysfonctional and NO may have a problem with Zion...
no one asked for a retärd's take.

[gambit1990]

My take was wildy retärded, no wonder Sugus and DPG21920 agree with it.

[rankingtear]

I'm only here to talk about how bad the rockets are. Jabari pushing and shouting at Sengun on defense is the latest on the circus. You know your locker room is bad when your rookie shouts at everybody.

[Sugus]

My take was wildy retärded, no wonder Sugus and DPG21920 agree with it.

My god, are you 12? :lol what a pathetic way to bump your own thread for the upteenth time. Have you got such little self validation IRL that you must resort to this mess of a thread every time?


I'm only here to talk about how bad the rockets are. Jabari pushing and shouting at Sengun on defense is the latest on the circus. You know your locker room is bad when your rookie shouts at everybody.

That's an excellent use for the thread, tbh. Yeah the Rockettes' locker room is dogshit. It's already impacting the growth of their "star prospects" and will be terribly hard to correct moving forward. That culture is rotten to the core.

I sincerely hope they don't get Wemby, even if we don't get him either. There's no worse team for him to come and develop than Houston, even Charlotte would be better right now.

[exstatic]

no one asked for a retärd's take.

And yet, you keep giving it to us.

[rascal]

There were many in the early days of this thread who never believed the Spurs would reach the lows that they have reached now.

[slick'81]

Thank god for the rockets

[K...]

This whole thread is about people melting down that the spurs didnt tank at their preffered (usually retroactive ) time now a separate group is melting down that the tank isnt happening fast enough. And the thing is the same as the “if you lived here youd be home by now“ signs.

[John B]

There were many in the early days of this thread who never believed the Spurs would reach the lows that they have reached now.

Just another day to say, Fuck you Kawhi!

[Atl Spur]

This tank will prove to be fruitful in the end ( draft capital / personnel ). Next year should start the accession back to relevancy. This year was necessary….

[Mr. Body]

Probably useless to assess, but:

Rockets are a self-made disaster and, I believe, won't control their own draft picks for a bit? But they do get the Nets', although Marks is good enough and has a lot of pieces that these might not be great. Ultimately the Rox have an awful owner.

Mavericks made a big, big swing for Kyrie, but it's already looking a bit rough. Two ball-dominant players, one a cracked weirdo, the other a chubby complainer. Kyrie may not even stick around. I think they completely blow the Doncic era.

Pelicans look worse than I expected this year. They had an astounding draft a couple times ago (and may get a great pick this year still), but those are superb role-players. Zion has the knees of an infant and Ingram just ain't that guy.

Grizzlies are still near-contenders, but they have shown absolutely rotten personalities from the arrogance of Ja to the psychotic Brooks. When Ja plays, their defense suffers, when he doesn't play, they aren't as cohesive as they were last year.

I mean, the Western Conference sucks. It sucks so bad that the Warriors may still get out of this den of slapdicks. It sucks that the Spurs couldn't compete when the league was this trash. But in terms of future, it's hard to say they're really the worse. They've done great to accumulate assets. After whiffing on the 2021 draft (no Sengun, not even Primo), they pulled two good players in Sochan and Branham. They have no huge liabilities. They have a pretty nice cache of picks in the next seven years.

[exstatic]

Probably useless to assess, but:

Rockets are a self-made disaster and, I believe, won't control their own draft picks for a bit? But they do get the Nets', although Marks is good enough and has a lot of pieces that these might not be great. Ultimately the Rox have an awful owner.

Mavericks made a big, big swing for Kyrie, but it's already looking a bit rough. Two ball-dominant players, one a cracked weirdo, the other a chubby complainer. Kyrie may not even stick around. I think they completely blow the Doncic era.

Pelicans look worse than I expected this year. They had an astounding draft a couple times ago (and may get a great pick this year still), but those are superb role-players. Zion has the knees of an infant and Ingram just ain't that guy.

Grizzlies are still near-contenders, but they have shown absolutely rotten personalities from the arrogance of Ja to the psychotic Brooks. When Ja plays, their defense suffers, when he doesn't play, they aren't as cohesive as they were last year.

I mean, the Western Conference sucks. It sucks so bad that the Warriors may still get out of this den of slapdicks. It sucks that the Spurs couldn't compete when the league was this trash. But in terms of future, it's hard to say they're really the worse. They've done great to accumulate assets. After whiffing on the 2021 draft (no Sengun, not even Primo), they pulled two good players in Sochan and Branham. They have no huge liabilities. They have a pretty nice cache of picks in the next seven years.

They had a better win % in the 25 games Ja missed last year than in the games he played. That’s almost 1/3 of the season,so it’s not a small sample size.

[scott]

Probably useless to assess, but:

Rockets are a self-made disaster and, I believe, won't control their own draft picks for a bit? But they do get the Nets', although Marks is good enough and has a lot of pieces that these might not be great. Ultimately the Rox have an awful owner.

Mavericks made a big, big swing for Kyrie, but it's already looking a bit rough. Two ball-dominant players, one a cracked weirdo, the other a chubby complainer. Kyrie may not even stick around. I think they completely blow the Doncic era.

Pelicans look worse than I expected this year. They had an astounding draft a couple times ago (and may get a great pick this year still), but those are superb role-players. Zion has the knees of an infant and Ingram just ain't that guy.

Grizzlies are still near-contenders, but they have shown absolutely rotten personalities from the arrogance of Ja to the psychotic Brooks. When Ja plays, their defense suffers, when he doesn't play, they aren't as cohesive as they were last year.

I mean, the Western Conference sucks. It sucks so bad that the Warriors may still get out of this den of slapdicks. It sucks that the Spurs couldn't compete when the league was this trash. But in terms of future, it's hard to say they're really the worse. They've done great to accumulate assets. After whiffing on the 2021 draft (no Sengun, not even Primo), they pulled two good players in Sochan and Branham. They have no huge liabilities. They have a pretty nice cache of picks in the next seven years.

Really highlights what an absolutely disaster it will be in Houston lands Wemby. What a complete and utter shitshow that is.

[scott]

This thread seemed like the best place for this

1630055229470445569

lol rockets

[gambit1990]

no one asked for a retärd's take.

And yet, you keep giving it to us.
you really early on in this thread:

This one did age well at ALL.
the rockets beat the spurs by 44 points over the past two games. imagine they get the #1 picks + the nets' picks.

[gambit1990]

There were many in the early days of this thread who never believed the Spurs would reach the lows that they have reached now.
:tu

it was literally me vs everyone tbh.

[gambit1990]

for anyone new to thread: i wasn't kicking a dog while it was down.

i didn't start my thread this season, i started my thread when the spurs were #1 in their division two years ago:




https://i.ibb.co/PN3V42y/182-C5-F98-048-F-4-FAC-A295-EC3-AF5609-BDA.jpg

[gambit1990]

I'm only here to talk about how bad the rockets are.

That's an excellent use for the thread, tbh. Yeah the Rockettes' locker room is dogshit. It's already impacting the growth of their "star prospects" and will be terribly hard to correct moving forward. That culture is rotten to the core.

[Ariel]

Mavericks made a big, big swing for Kyrie, but it's already looking a bit rough. Two ball-dominant players, one a cracked weirdo, the other a chubby complainer. Kyrie may not even stick around. I think they completely blow the Doncic era.
I think there's a lesson to be learned there. When a team matures and enters a contender phase, they usually have to spend assets to trade for the pieces they need. Also, salary implications mean they lose certain players and they need competent replacement. If such a team is led by a superstar, there's added pressure driven by the fear of losing him, which means resource management tends to be suboptimal. In summary, you need to build a substantial amount of talent and assets PRIOR to entering the contender phase, because once the train leaves the station, you need to burn whatever is aboard to keep it running (first their excess picks, then their own, then their role players, then they're f*cked). So the notion that we'll bounce right back if/when we land Wemby isn't realistic, at least not if we're aiming at a sustained success. Our young guys won't be ready for prime time in a while, it's better to build the team organically from the bottom up, than trying to rush events, which is likely costly and futile. We probably would be better served by continuing to add pieces and trend up for a couple of years, before the young core is ready. That doesn't mean a shameless tank such as this season, but more likely like Indiana is doing right now, but whatever the case, we should be really wary of starting to run while our pants are still down... it doesn't usually end up well.

[gambit1990]

we should be really wary of starting to run while our pants are still down... it doesn't usually end up well.
:tu:tu

[gambit1990]

You honestly believe you're smart? LMAO

lol Rockets :lmao :lmao

What do the Rockets have besides low Brooklyn Nets picks?

lmao smart, doubt. this post says other wise

To the point of this stupid thread (#1,000,00 for an ST troll) attention to this moron.

It’s time to close this thread

Should have been closed the moment it was posted

this thread is getting worse and worse by the day :lmao

It’s funny, but OP bragged on coming in here often, but he’s on the side of a milk carton for a while now.

This thread will be good for many bumps.

Spurs also have a ton more flexibility this offseason and still own all of their picks.

:lol

[gambit1990]

^ all that's just from the first few pages of thread. 98% of y'all kept persisting :lol

[Dejounte]

OP must be a charity case or special needs kid that timvp allows to fill this board with junk. I mean, the only explanation must be that he’s timvp’s nephew or something and that he feels sorry for him. No way this dude gets away with this bullshit on any other forum. It’s like a 10 year old who gets his own corner so the adults can mingle without having to worry about the kid. That’s what this feels like.

It’s playtime again for the OP

[rankingtear]

HOU still a mess, winning against two-way players won't magically fix that. OP don't even know half the players we played.

[K...]

It’s playtime again for the OP

He saw a box score and it was too stimulating.

[Mr. Body]

This is literally monkey brain stuff. Stimulus, response. Not even a monkey, actually. Monkeys can process information.

[scott]

Didn't know where would be a better place to chat about this... but let's talk about the Mavs. Looks like the were pushing towards their shot at the play-in, then pivoted and went full tank to close the season and try to protect that Top-10 protected pick (which they could still lose if they get jumped in the lotto, lol let's fucking hope so just for the laughs).

You've gotta think Kyrie bolts after this. This should be the kind of thing that costs Kidd his job. Cuban, like other GMs in Dallas, is lucky he is also the owner or he'd be fired too. You've got to think their actual GM, Nico Harrison, is getting fired.

How long before Luka asks out of this shit franchise? Let's say the Mavs were willing to listen, what package would you offer for Luka assuming we do NOT have the #1 pick?

[baseline bum]

Didn't know where would be a better place to chat about this... but let's talk about the Mavs. Looks like the were pushing towards their shot at the play-in, then pivoted and went full tank to close the season and try to protect that Top-10 protected pick (which they could still lose if they get jumped in the lotto, lol let's fucking hope so just for the laughs).

You've gotta think Kyrie bolts after this. This should be the kind of thing that costs Kidd his job. Cuban, like other GMs in Dallas, is lucky he is also the owner or he'd be fired too. You've got to think their actual GM, Nico Harrison, is getting fired.

How long before Luka asks out of this shit franchise? Let's say the Mavs were willing to listen, what package would you offer for Luka assuming we do NOT have the #1 pick?

I think Irving is going to have to settle and stay in Dallas if he wants to get paid. Most of the teams with capspace are either in full rebuild and years away from playoff runs and thus wouldn't have interest or already have high end PG or high end PG prospects like Indiana, OKC, Charlotte, and Detroit. Lakers aren't going to gut their team for Irving. Not the same situation as it was when they were negotiating with Brooklyn to get him for the corpse of Westbrook's career and a pick or two. Only team with capspace I could even see making an offer to Irving is Orlando if they feel they might have the chance to make a run next year, but Dallas can pretty easily outspend them. I think Irving will force his way out eventually but I have my doubts he's going to find the grass any greener than in Dallas this offseason. Don't think he's going to have much choice with all the bridges he has burned unless he wants to take a major paycut.

[scott]

IDK, Kyrie seems like the kind of guy who will take less money for the situation he feels best suits him. I'm not sure North Texas is the kind of place he'll feel at home.

[DPG21920]

Every ATL pick + Spurs pick this year that’s not Wemby. Absorb Luka pretty much entirely and let Dallas have completely clean cap and 4 firsts.

[Mr. Body]

Kyrie in Brooklyn showed that he's an absolute expert at taking huge amounts of money from his team without actually playing. He may be the greatest of all time.

I expect he'll stay in Dallas both because he'll get a lot of national attention and because he can sit out and do whatever weird shit he wants without having to play.