Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 Free Agency Discussion Thread

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1407164836052713472?s=21

good to see the young Spurs hanging out off court

White, Eubanks, Tre, Devin, KBD

[Dejounte]

CQaDFUfDAh7

[slick'81]

CQaDFUfDAh7


Such high hopes for vassell and d.white next year. Is that quinndary at the end?

[MultiTroll]

Spencer Dinwiddie prolly gonna go for 4 Xs 20.

You buying he can return to 2020 stats and maintain it for 4 years? Too many guards on the Spurs already?

Would you rather see Popped give Wombat 20 more?

[Em-City]

CQaDFUfDAh7
This reminds me of the photo where Luke Walton and Richard Jefferson are sharing straws from a cocktail

[Calavera]

Keldon

[Calavera]

Such high hopes for vassell and d.white next year. Is that quinndary at the end?
Keldon

[pad300]

Damn, look at Tre's legs. I hadn't realized he was bowlegged, not like that. I'm shocked he hasn't had knee problems.

[SPURt]

Bruce Bowen says Gregg Popovich would trade ‘anyone’ on Spurs roster for Ben Simmons


"I know Pop very well and I assure you they would trade anyone on the Spurs roster for Ben Simmons."

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1407367136662667265?s=21

[buttsR4rebounding]

Damn, look at Tre's legs. I hadn't realized he was bowlegged, not like that. I'm shocked he hasn't had knee problems.

Straighten those out and we have our 6'7" wing.

[Dejounte]

Bruce Bowen says Gregg Popovich would trade ‘anyone’ on Spurs roster for Ben Simmons


"I know Pop very well and I assure you they would trade anyone on the Spurs roster for Ben Simmons."

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1407367136662667265?s=21

apparently this has been debunked. He never said it.

[4lifecowboy]

If we offered Jarrett Allen max, would Cleveland match?

[mo7888]

If we offered Jarrett Allen max, would Cleveland match?

Hopefully

[exstatic]

Hopefully

Yeah. This is 2021. You don’t want to be tying up big money in a center.

[pad300]

If we offered Jarrett Allen max, would Cleveland match?

They already came to an extension deal, $100m/4 yrs IIRC.

[Atl Spur]

I d rather us take on Wiggins contract for picks; there are some pieces in the draft we can use.......

[4lifecowboy]

They already came to an extension deal, $100m/4 yrs IIRC.

That is the rumored amount they are offering, but nothing has been signed.

[EasyMoney]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1408088547320598528?s=19

Interesting. Instead of giving him 100m and capping yourself out before extending sexton and garland, you can trade him for flexibility, and bring in mobley. Wonder what the spurs could offer in a s&t though. He did go to high school and college in Texas, and his dad played for the mavericks I believe, so some texas roots there.

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1408088547320598528?s=19

Interesting. Instead of giving him 100m and capping yourself out before extending sexton and garland, you can trade him for flexibility, and bring in mobley. Wonder what the spurs could offer in a s&t though. He did go to high school and college in Texas, and his dad played for the mavericks I believe, so some texas roots there.

If the price is $100M over 4...I don't want him and I sure wouldn't give up an asset for the privilege.

[keithington1]

Markannen and Simmons would be a good PF C combo.

[4lifecowboy]

How does that work, he is a RFA all we would have to do is offer him a contract and they will be forced to match it or let him walk.

[4lifecowboy]

Markannen and Simmons would be a good PF C combo.

Allen and McDermott would be a good free agent haul.

[Dingle Barry]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1405599344720420866

I'd offer him the max tbh. Probably not quite worth it, but he might end up being so. And it's the only way we're going to get a proven big.

[Dingle Barry]

Markannen and Simmons would be a good PF C combo.

I don't understand why anyone wants Simmons, a guy with a huge contract who can't shoot FTs and crumbles under pressure and won't even shoot in the clutch. It's one thing if you're dominant like Shaq. Otherwise it's too big of a liability. I'd tear my hair out if we got this mentally weak choker.

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1408088547320598528?s=19

Interesting. Instead of giving him 100m and capping yourself out before extending sexton and garland, you can trade him for flexibility, and bring in mobley. Wonder what the spurs could offer in a s&t though. He did go to high school and college in Texas, and his dad played for the mavericks I believe, so some texas roots there.

I'd definitely be interested in Allen if he's offered.

[TD 21]

Not advocating either of the following trades, but . . .

Allen would only make sense in a scenario like this: Signed and traded, along with Sexton for Poeltl and #12. The problem is the timing for draft purposes, so that the Cavaliers get the Spurs to select who they want.

Here's another one that could work with the Cavaliers: Love and Sexton for #12 and Walker IV.

[mo7888]

Not advocating either of the following trades, but . . .

Allen would only make sense in a scenario like this: Signed and traded, along with Sexton for Poeltl and #12. The problem is the timing for draft purposes, so that the Cavaliers get the Spurs to select who they want.

Here's another one that could work with the Cavaliers: Love and Sexton for #12 and Walker IV.

How do you see Sexton and DJ fitting or not in that scenario?

[TD 21]

Forgot to include Walker IV in the first one.



How do you see Sexton and DJ fitting or not in that scenario?

Decent. Lacking play making and volume 3-point shooting and both would ideally defend the one, but Sexton is a good 3-point shooter, could defend the weaker guard and provide go-to scoring.

White could both back them up and play alongside them at times too.

[tbdog]

Hero on the trade block. Anyone know if his game is better than White or Murray? And what would it take to get him as Heat are in win now mode.

[tbdog]

On Sexton, he is seeking a max and I am unsure I want to invest a max on a 6"3 SG that we haven't seen him win.

[mo7888]

Hero on the trade block. Anyone know if his game is better than White or Murray? And what would it take to get him as Heat are in win now mode.

It's hard to see what they'd want from is unless they are looking for a DDR S&T..

[JeffDuncan]

Hero on the trade block. Anyone know if his game is better than White or Murray? And what would it take to get him as Heat are in win now mode.


Murray and White are both significantly better players than Herro. The only exception is 3pt percentage, but Herro isn’t enough better at that to close the gap.

Herro is under contract for $4 M next season.

No idea what Miami would want, I could only say, somebody to play with Butler. Depends on what Jimmy wants.

[R. DeMurre]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? It makes no sense in the modern NBA. Save that money for shooters, swing players, shot creators, and switchable defenders. Finding a 6'11"/7' guy who plays some D isn't that difficult. The Spurs already have a bargain in Poeltl.

[Atl Spur]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? It makes no sense in the modern NBA. Save that money for shooters, swing players, shot creators, and switchable defenders. Finding a 6'11"/7' guy who plays some D isn't that difficult. The Spurs already have a bargain in Poeltl.

I agree.

[8FOR!3]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? It makes no sense in the modern NBA. Save that money for shooters, swing players, shot creators, and switchable defenders. Finding a 6'11"/7' guy who plays some D isn't that difficult. The Spurs already have a bargain in Poeltl.

agreed. I will say Utah lacks legit scorers though too I feel like their whole team is built around defense and their whole offense is built around Donovan Mitchell. When you’re relying on Jordan Clarkson for volume scoring I think you’re going to struggle against teams that rely on multiple legit superstars to score the ball

[R. DeMurre]

agreed. I will say Utah lacks legit scorers though too I feel like their whole team is built around defense and their whole offense is built around Donovan Mitchell. When you’re relying on Jordan Clarkson for volume scoring I think you’re going to struggle against teams that rely on multiple legit superstars to score the ball

Yeah, and I think a healthy Mike Conley was missed more than expected, even though that story was barely talked about in the coverage.

[bdictjames]

I just want the team to build around White and Vucevic, lol.

[JeffDuncan]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? ...


Jarrett Allen, max? Where did that notion come from, his agent? His Qualifying Offer is $7.7 M, and he might get, oh, possibly as high as $10 M/year from a team with severe problems at C. Anything more, somebody’s front office has gone silly.

[R. DeMurre]

Jarrett Allen, max? Where did that notion come from, his agent? His Qualifying Offer is $7.7 M, and he might get, oh, possibly as high as $10 M/year from a team with severe problems at C. Anything more, somebody’s front office has gone silly.

This story was everywhere a few months ago: https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/05/19/report-cavs-expected-to-give-jarrett-allen-100m-contract-extension/

[JeffDuncan]

This story was everywhere a few months ago: https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/05/19/report-cavs-expected-to-give-jarrett-allen-100m-contract-extension/

Ah. I couldn’t help noticing this:

“ Recently, an NBA agent said that Allen could command a contract worth nearly $25 million per season.”

An agent.

I don’t know enough about the Cavs to know how silly they are, except their record was much worse than the Spurs, and they still owe Kevin Love $60 M. I can’t say the Cavs wouldn’t do it. But the Spurs? It would be absurd.

[BackHome]

Getting Or Wanting Love is just plain Stupid

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? It makes no sense in the modern NBA. Save that money for shooters, swing players, shot creators, and switchable defenders. Finding a 6'11"/7' guy who plays some D isn't that difficult. The Spurs already have a bargain in Poeltl.

I agree 2.

[TD 21]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? It makes no sense in the modern NBA. Save that money for shooters, swing players, shot creators, and switchable defenders. Finding a 6'11"/7' guy who plays some D isn't that difficult. The Spurs already have a bargain in Poeltl.

Devil's advocate . . .

- Spurs are both too far removed from having to worry about that and seem more interested in trying to be perpetually "competitive" than building a contender.

- Poeltl is relatively inexpensive for now. At this rate, he won't be in 2 years time. Allen is also 3 years younger and arguably already better.

- In either trade, it'd be more so about Sexton. There's reasons why, given their situation, either of the bigs could make sense too though.

[pad300]

Getting Or Wanting Love is just plain Stupid

Depends on what comes along with him - #3 + Love for #12 would worth eating that contract.

[mo7888]

Depends on what comes along with him - #3 + Love for #12 would worth eating that contract.

That's the only way I'd eat that contract....

[pad300]

That's the only way I'd eat that contract....

I'd do it for an 2022 (top 3 protected) and 2024 1st (top 3 protected) ; there's probably other combos that would work for me.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/AssassinateHate/status/1409279257960869889?s=20

https://twitter.com/basketbllnews/status/1409270603018817543?s=20

This is an interesting story to watch.

https://clutchpoints.com/blazers-news-damian-lillards-reason-for-joining-team-usa-in-olympics/


“Pop being the coach of the national team played a big role in my decision to commit,” Lillard said (via Columbian.com (https://www.columbian.com/news/2021/jun/17/lillard-explains-reasons-for-deciding-to-play-in-olympics/)). “I have a lot of respect for Pop as a coach and as a person. I look forward to playing for him, taking in his basketball knowledge and seeing what our team can do.”

DJ + Walker + #12 + 2023 Future first…May get discussions started or too lopsided in favour of Spurs?

[mo7888]

I'd do it for an 2022 (top 3 protected) and 2024 1st (top 3 protected) ; there's probably other combos that would work for me.

Maybe...but I'd have to see what happens to those protections in subsequent years..

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/AssassinateHate/status/1409279257960869889?s=20

https://twitter.com/basketbllnews/status/1409270603018817543?s=20

This is an interesting story to watch.

https://clutchpoints.com/blazers-news-damian-lillards-reason-for-joining-team-usa-in-olympics/



DJ + Walker + #12 + 2023 Future first…May get discussions started or too lopsided in favour of Spurs?

It's to lopsided in our favor ..that said, if Dame wants to come here, and here only, then his value drops and our price would drop...it'd have to get nasty there for that though

[R. DeMurre]

Devil's advocate . . .

- Spurs are both too far removed from having to worry about that and seem more interested in trying to be perpetually "competitive" than building a contender.

- Poeltl is relatively inexpensive for now. At this rate, he won't be in 2 years time. Allen is also 3 years younger and arguably already better.

- In either trade, it'd be more so about Sexton. There's reasons why, given their situation, either of the bigs could make sense too though.

I'm not that big on Sexton-- he's one of those guys that will demand a max contract based on scoring, and I just don't see him as a max guy. I'd rather take our chances with the #12 pick & move on from there.

[CGD]

CQaDFUfDAh7

Some combination of these guys + DDR for Simmons. Spurs should still have some flexibility to sign a few other pieces. Lowry can take full MLE and reunite with DDR in Philly.

(Then trade Murray, Walker, filler, and 12 for Beal)

[Degoat]

I absolutely love the NBA draft and everything but it’s going to be super interesting what the spurs do in free agency

[Dejounte]

I absolutely love the NBA draft and everything but it’s going to be super interesting what the spurs do in free agency

probably sign two of Oubre, Markkanen, and McDermott and call it a day

afterwards, commence Spurs fans freak out

[Seventyniner]

probably sign two of Oubre, Markkanen, and McDermott and call it a day

afterwards, commence Spurs fans freak out

I would be pretty close to freaking out if that happened. Being the Bulls Lite is hardly compelling as a fan.

[slick'81]

I would be pretty close to freaking out if that happened. Being the Bulls Lite is hardly compelling as a fan.


For real though

[Chinook]

Wonder if the Clips are going to end up moving George in a similar way as they did to Griffin. It would likely only in the cases of Leonard leaving or Leonard and George having a falling out. If the Spurs were to make a deal like Murray, 12 and Milutinov (because I'm sick of seeing him on the Capulator more than anything), they could preserve enough cap space to either re-sign DeRozan or make a run at another maxish contract like John Collins. I can imagine the idea of having both DeRozan and George on the team would send some folks into convulsions, but a roster of:

White, RE PG, Jones
Vassell, Walker, Weatherspoon
DeRozan, Johnson, Bates-Diop
George, Samanic, 41
Poeltl, Eubanks, Cap space center

wouldn't be bad at all. I think it's somewhat leveraged in terms of contract lengths, but at least it would have asset flexibility. There'd even be room to re-up someone like Walker or Johnson. If the Spurs don't want to tank but also don't want to sell out to avoid tanking, this would be an interesting way to do it.

[Mr. Body]

Reggie Jackson?

[venitian navigator]

Reggie Jackson?

He is a native from sa but probably not the exact kind of player that looks like a sa one... However his 3 point shooting could be considered a valuable trait, considering that none of our point guards (except, in part, White) volub be considered a man's e from the 3 point line...

[tbdog]

If Leonard leaves LA, Clippers may look at their somewhat success without Leonard and just bring it back. No need to chop it up when they have no picks.

But in the event they do blow it up, they'll want picks.

[CGD]

^ I’m ready to move on from DDR. If he’s re-signed, I hope it’s part of a sign-and-trade.

As a fan, I’m good tolerating a few years of sucking to rebuild through draft. I trust the Spurs’ drafting game more than their free agency/trades game.

[John B]

Reggie Jackson?
He definitely earned a new contract

[Atl Spur]

Im really interested to see what we’re going to do, we might be in better position than most think!

[mo7888]

Im really interested to see what we’re going to do, we might be in better position than most think!

We have a ton of options for sure and it appears there will be several teams looking to trade assets this off-season.

[Dejounte]

Spurs timed it perfectly with many teams misjudging the value of their assets coming off pandemic affected seasons. CIA Pop. Covid came from a lab inside the Spurs facilities.

[mo7888]

Wonder if the Clips are going to end up moving George in a similar way as they did to Griffin. It would likely only in the cases of Leonard leaving or Leonard and George having a falling out. If the Spurs were to make a deal like Murray, 12 and Milutinov (because I'm sick of seeing him on the Capulator more than anything), they could preserve enough cap space to either re-sign DeRozan or make a run at another maxish contract like John Collins. I can imagine the idea of having both DeRozan and George on the team would send some folks into convulsions, but a roster of:

White, RE PG, Jones
Vassell, Walker, Weatherspoon
DeRozan, Johnson, Bates-Diop
George, Samanic, 41
Poeltl, Eubanks, Cap space center

wouldn't be bad at all. I think it's somewhat leveraged in terms of contract lengths, but at least it would have asset flexibility. There'd even be room to re-up someone like Walker or Johnson. If the Spurs don't want to tank but also don't want to sell out to avoid tanking, this would be an interesting way to do it.

It wouldn't be a bad team but, it's not a team that's going to compete for a championship either I don't believe. I'd rather spend money going after younger guys myself.

[mo7888]

I see a couple of rumors out there this morning that the Clippers may look to move Kennard this summer... He's 25 years old...shoots the 3 at 40%...reasonable contract but offers little in the way of defense...

Just another option to keep in mind

[Atl Spur]

Part of a Derozan sign and trade maybe ........ been mentioned here before.

[Dejounte]

This is what I’ve said all along:

“Prediction: Markkanen signs with the Spurs for no more than $15 million per season.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945321-predicting-the-fates-of-nbas-top-2021-restricted-free-agents

Whether it will come to reality is another story.

[Degoat]

This is what I’ve said all along:

“Prediction: Markkanen signs with the Spurs for no more than $15 million per season.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945321-predicting-the-fates-of-nbas-top-2021-restricted-free-agents

Whether it will come to reality is another story.

I’d honestly be thrilled with that lol

[mo7888]

This is what I’ve said all along:

“Prediction: Markkanen signs with the Spurs for no more than $15 million per season.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945321-predicting-the-fates-of-nbas-top-2021-restricted-free-agents

Whether it will come to reality is another story.

At $15M/yr, I'd be satisfied with that. I'd really rather spend that than the max on Collins... then get me a 2 guard that's lights out from 3... maybe GTJr or Kennard (if the Clips move him to create space).....

[Dejounte]

At $15M/yr, I'd be satisfied with that. I'd really rather spend that than the max on Collins... then get me a 2 guard that's lights out from 3... maybe GTJr or Kennard (if the Clips move him to create space).....

Adding a bargain shooter like that would allow the Spurs to keep cycling through talented wings/ guards until the right one develops into something special. I think that has been the whole point all this time, with spending cheap at the C position, and then possibly now finding bargain shooters for the 4 position. Maybe the Spurs recognize that the future relies on stars coming from the 1-3 positions and shooters like Lauri will unlock their talent more. I’m not saying it’s exclusive to the current core. Maybe we draft a killer guard like Duarte (gotta plug him in in every thread) and see what happens from there. And if Duarte is not it, then keep finding more wings and guards who have special talent. It may not happen as fast as people like though since the Spurs want to see their development track all the way through the rookie contract.

[mo7888]

Adding a bargain shooter like that would allow the Spurs to keep cycling through talented wings/ guards until the right one develops into something special. I think that has been the whole point all this time, with spending cheap at the C position, and then possibly now finding bargain shooters for the 4 position. Maybe the Spurs recognize that the future relies on stars coming from the 1-3 positions and shooters like Lauri will unlock their talent more. I’m not saying it’s exclusive to the current core. Maybe we draft a killer guard like Duarte (gotta plug him in in every thread) and see what happens from there. And if Duarte is not it, then keep finding more wings and guards who have special talent. It may not happen as fast as people like though since the Spurs want to see their development track all the way through the rookie contract.

It's not a bad strategy.... I definitely think a lights out shooter at the 4 will make DJ and KJ much better and we'll really see what their ceilings are. If we get Lauri and use DJ, White, LW, and Devin to man the guard spots without going after GTJr type, then we should use our remaing cap space to acquire future picks by taking on salary.

[Em-City]

At $15M/yr, I'd be satisfied with that. I'd really rather spend that than the max on Collins... then get me a 2 guard that's lights out from 3... maybe GTJr or Kennard (if the Clips move him to create space).....

Yep that sounds like really good offseason.
In the collins scenario, he's worth the max with upside to boot.
Markkanen is pretty crap, but at 15m per, i think he's worth the gamble.
GTJr is also a great option which takes the pressure off our other guys who still need to develop offensively (even though they have less mins to do so).

[LCM]

If you sign Markkanen, you can't just neuter him on the perimeter. Yes he can stretch the floor from three, play pick and pop all day long. But you need to punish teams who try to guard him small by getting points on the block. When he gets a defensive board, let him lead the break or go coast to coast, let him run! Lauri should be encouraged to grab the rebound and push it up the court. If they collapse on him, pass to an open teammate. They don't, use that 6'11 - 7'0 body and jam it on someone's head with bad intentions!! Watch his rookie and second year highlights, he has the ability.

Is Collins more durable, yes. But if you can get Markkanen for 15-17 million a year for 3 to 4 years, that salary will give you so much flexibility to add quality players that can get you back into the playoffs!

[Atl Spur]

If you sign Markkanen, you can't just neuter him on the perimeter. Yes he can stretch the floor from three, play pick and pop all day long. But you need to punish teams who try to guard him small by getting points on the block. When he gets a defensive board, let him lead the break or go coast to coast, let him run! Lauri should be encouraged to grab the rebound and push it up the court. If they collapse on him, pass to an open teammate. They don't, use that 6'11 - 7'0 body and jam it on someone's head with bad intentions!! Watch his rookie and second year highlights, he has the ability.

Is Collins more durable, yes. But if you can get Markkanen for 15-17 million a year for 3 to 4 years, that salary will give you so much flexibility to add quality players that can get you back into the playoffs!

I would love to add him at that price!

[Seventyniner]

Why would the Bulls not match $15M? If they don't match because Markkanen is the kind to cancer up a locker room when he doesn't get what he wants, would you even want him on the Spurs?

I'd still take him at that price, but I would be leery of why the Bulls wouldn't match.

[Degoat]

Why would the Bulls not match $15M? If they don't match because Markkanen is the kind to cancer up a locker room when he doesn't get what he wants, would you even want him on the Spurs?

I'd still take him at that price, but I would be leery of why the Bulls wouldn't match.

They probably would match at that number, but the bulls traded for Vuc so they’ve kinda committed to him, so investing a lot of money on Lauri wouldn’t make sense. The bulls have a lot of issues that needs fixing and Lauri might not be in there plans

[slick'81]

Why would the Bulls not match $15M? If they don't match because Markkanen is the kind to cancer up a locker room when he doesn't get what he wants, would you even want him on the Spurs?

I'd still take him at that price, but I would be leery of why the Bulls wouldn't match.


He isnt worth much more then $15 . Would like to know if bulls even want him back

[talkspurs]

What price do you think Mo wagner would get? I would think he would be better then Lauri. He does not have the name of him but I think is a better defender. He is not as good on offense and is not as good at 3 but is not bad either. He also could play small C better then Lauri. He is pretty mobile and could probably be had for cheap. the biggest problem I see is we have so much cap space that we have to spend. We could sign someone to an above market deal because there are not many good FA available or take on a bad contract.

[look_at_g_shred]

What price do you think Mo wagner would get? I would think he would be better then Lauri. He does not have the name of him but I think is a better defender. He is not as good on offense and is not as good at 3 but is not bad either. He also could play small C better then Lauri. He is pretty mobile and could probably be had for cheap. the biggest problem I see is we have so much cap space that we have to spend. We could sign someone to an above market deal because there are not many good FA available or take on a bad contract.
the only way I'd be happy with taking on a bad contract is if we are getting compensated with draft capital

[mo7888]

What price do you think Mo wagner would get? I would think he would be better then Lauri. He does not have the name of him but I think is a better defender. He is not as good on offense and is not as good at 3 but is not bad either. He also could play small C better then Lauri. He is pretty mobile and could probably be had for cheap. the biggest problem I see is we have so much cap space that we have to spend. We could sign someone to an above market deal because there are not many good FA available or take on a bad contract.

Mo isn't nearly the player Lauri is nor does he still have some upside to explore. I'm not against him as a cheap 5 if Eubanks gets thrown into a trade somewhere but, he's not going to produce what Lauri potentially can.

[tbdog]

I think Spurs offer Markkanen 2x20mil.

[LCM]

I think Spurs offer Markkanen 2x20mil.

Not a bad idea. Bulls aren't matching $20 million. Other clubs who have cap space aren't going to offer more than that. It's a put up or shut up contract length for Markkanen where if he produces, the Spurs can resign him in 2023, or sign and trade as an asset. He fails to produce, you don't compromise your 2023 cap space.

[jjspur]

I think 2 years at 20 mill per year is a bit much. If your goal is for the bulls to not match you go with that plan. 15-17 is about right for him, but I'd worry the bulls match. If you get Markkanen to take 15 mill and the bulls don't match, great you have an extra 5 million or so to spend on another player. We haven't had this much cap space in like forever so lets make it count. Real talent costs $$$.

[Seventyniner]

I think Spurs offer Markkanen 2x20mil.

Ah, the ol' Jabari Parker deal. I can see that happening.

[Leetonidas]

If Lauri Markkanen is our big FA signing... :vomit:

[mo7888]

I think 2 years at 20 mill per year is a bit much. If your goal is for the bulls to not match you go with that plan. 15-17 is about right for him, but I'd worry the bulls match. If you get Markkanen to take 15 mill and the bulls don't match, great you have an extra 5 million or so to spend on another player. We haven't had this much cap space in like forever so lets make it count. Real talent costs $$$.

If the Bulls really are determined to cut ties then offer them a future 2nd for a S&T at $15M and the save face by getting thst and a TE.

[Ocotillo]

:lol I read that as 2 years, 10 mill each and was like :tu

[EasyMoney]

So the 76ers rejected a ben simmons for Malcolm brogdon trade. Interesting to see that brogdon is available. It wasn't mentioned how recent the trade rejection was though. Could have been by trade deadline or after elimination

[John B]

This is what I’ve said all along:

“Prediction: Markkanen signs with the Spurs for no more than $15 million per season.”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945321-predicting-the-fates-of-nbas-top-2021-restricted-free-agents

Whether it will come to reality is another story.

Where is Poeltl in this scenario? He’s a cheap starting big, but not as a backup. Anyway he could get packaged to get Duarte and maybe Jalen/Moody/Wagner with our own pick?

[Mr. Body]

Signing Lauri Markkanen for a lot of money would be a solid sign that we're now the Utah Jazz for the fifteen years or so after Malone and Stockton retired.

[talkspurs]

the only way I'd be happy with taking on a bad contract is if we are getting compensated with draft capital

yes we would get draft capitol back, that is the only reason you take on a bad contract.

[Leetonidas]

Signing Lauri Markkanen for a lot of money would be a solid sign that we're now the Utah Jazz for the fifteen years or so after Malone and Stockton retired.

At least they made a conference Finals in that time:lol

[talkspurs]

Mo isn't nearly the player Lauri is nor does he still have some upside to explore. I'm not against him as a cheap 5 if Eubanks gets thrown into a trade somewhere but, he's not going to produce what Lauri potentially can.

I think your underestimating Mo and overestimating Lauri. Lauri is not as good as people want to point out, He also is injury prone (mo has had some too). I disagree with you on the upside as well. I think Lauri is who he is going to be. He may get to be a slightly better scorrer but dont think he will ever be good on defense. Mo I think can get better at both. All Lauri does is shoot 3s.

[R. DeMurre]

Not a big fan of Markkanen because literally everything he does other than shooting is extremely underwhelming, but one thing that does give me a little bit of hope is that Donovan and the Bulls mishandled their bigs so badly this season that it's somewhat understandable that Lauri would be used poorly. Daniel Gafford played sparingly & had mediocre analytics in Chicago, then went to Washington and became arguably the best back up center in the NBA over the last couple of months. Washington literally doesn't get to the play in game without Gafford's incredible +/- numbers. Luke Kornet did the same: mediocre numbers in Chicago, surprisingly good play in Boston. I'm warming up to Markkanen if the price isn't crazy and the contract isn't absolutely untradeable.

[CGD]

So the 76ers rejected a ben simmons for Malcolm brogdon trade. Interesting to see that brogdon is available. It wasn't mentioned how recent the trade rejection was though. Could have been by trade deadline or after elimination

Sounds like offer was Brogdon + pick. Unclear if for this draft but worth noting they own 13, one after Spurs. Although it was supposedly rejected — its early though— seems like a good baseline for understanding Simmons’ trade value at this juncture.

DDR+12 might be better value, but probably need to add a young player too.

[rankingtear]

I think your underestimating Mo and overestimating Lauri. Lauri is not as good as people want to point out, He also is injury prone (mo has had some too). I disagree with you on the upside as well. I think Lauri is who he is going to be. He may get to be a slightly better scorrer but dont think he will ever be good on defense. Mo I think can get better at both. All Lauri does is shoot 3s.

Mo is hanging by a thread to stay in the league. He can't play his natural position. He is a jack of all trades master of none, players with niche survive longer in the league.

[John B]

Sounds like offer was Brogdon + pick. Unclear if for this draft but worth noting they own 13, one after Spurs. Although it was supposedly rejected — its early though— seems like a good baseline for understanding Simmons’ trade value at this juncture.

DDR+12 might be better value, but probably need to add a young player too.

I'd rather send DDR to get another pick, to get Duarte. Use #12 to get Jalen/Wagner/Moody whoever, and sign Markkanen. Ship Poeltl too while you're at it.

[mo7888]

I think your underestimating Mo and overestimating Lauri. Lauri is not as good as people want to point out, He also is injury prone (mo has had some too). I disagree with you on the upside as well. I think Lauri is who he is going to be. He may get to be a slightly better scorrer but dont think he will ever be good on defense. Mo I think can get better at both. All Lauri does is shoot 3s.

Mo may not even be in the league next year and if he is it'll be on a minimum contract. Lauri will be on a $15M/year or more contract...there's a huge difference... we can quibble over who can or can't improve and by how much but, Lauri is vastly superior right now.

[TD 21]

Even if Markkanen could be had for the types of contract being discussed, if the Lakers can't come up with something better, get desperate and DeRozan were on board, I'd rather try to sign and trade him for Kuzma, Harrell (re-routed to a third team) and the 22nd pick.

[tbdog]

I think 2 years at 20 mill per year is a bit much. If your goal is for the bulls to not match you go with that plan. 15-17 is about right for him, but I'd worry the bulls match. If you get Markkanen to take 15 mill and the bulls don't match, great you have an extra 5 million or so to spend on another player. We haven't had this much cap space in like forever so lets make it count. Real talent costs $$$.

Because I think Spurs probably want to keep their 2023 cap space open. And markkanen would want years if he is taking 15mil. His agent may think that guarantee 40 and plsy for a team that needs his skill set and would use it, would bring him money later.

[slick'81]

Poodle and lauri the new twin towers

[Teamduncan21]

If Lauri Markkanen is our big FA signing... :vomit:

There is no big fa available unfortunately

[slick'81]

As long as lauri isnt making more then white or dejounte im good. Maybe spurs can salvage markkanen's career

[talkspurs]

Mo may not even be in the league next year and if he is it'll be on a minimum contract. Lauri will be on a $15M/year or more contract...there's a huge difference... we can quibble over who can or can't improve and by how much but, Lauri is vastly superior right now.

I wont deny that the Lauri will get paid more. But when you look at there per 36 numbers there is not much difference.

career https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=wagnemo01&player_id2=markkla01
this year https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=wagnemo01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=markkla01&p2yrfrom=2021

Just because someone is paid more does not mean they are better. if it was that simple you would not have players like Green/ wood and some others that have been thought of as nothing before and came back to be reliable players. There have also been many bad contract given out by NBA teams. You could also say it about the draft where everyone knows there are players drafted later that end up being better.

[EricB]

At least they made a conference Finals in that time:lol


that was only cause Dallas got shipped in the first round

[tbdog]

Lauri may very well be exactly what Spurs need moving forward. White, Murray, Johnson, Lauri, Poeltl is a nice starting 5. They lack a go to scorer, which means they'll need to be confident that their youth and Lauri would turn up the scoring.

Losing DDR, Gay and potentially Mills is 35 to 45 points gone.

[Rosewood]

I keep hearing talks of Ben Simmons to the Spurs. Is this a serious possibility? I don't see how he'd help, isn't he a slightly better Dejounte Murray but much more expensive?

[Degoat]

I keep hearing talks of Ben Simmons to the Spurs. Is this a serious possibility? I don't see how he'd help, isn't he a slightly better Dejounte Murray but much more expensive?

There’s gonna be a lot of Ben Simmons chatter tbh I wouldn’t hate it but I can’t see the 76ers trading him with his value so low.

[Rosewood]

There’s gonna be a lot of Ben Simmons chatter tbh I wouldn’t hate it but I can’t see the 76ers trading him with his value so low.


What would we even have to give up? DJM and draft pick? Or more?

[Atl Spur]

Lauri has a skill set, change of scenery will do him some good probably.

[slick'81]

What would we even have to give up? DJM and draft pick? Or more?


They want an established all star and picks. Spurs clearly dont have that currently

[jjspur]

Even if Markkanen could be had for the types of contract being discussed, if the Lakers can't come up with something better, get desperate and DeRozan were on board, I'd rather try to sign and trade him for Kuzma, Harrell (re-routed to a third team) and the 22nd pick.
I really like this trade, but I don't think we can fleece the Lakers into doing it. Spurs say yes, DeRozen says hell yes, the lakers think about it for a minute and say we've had enough playoff chokers on this team already (looking at you Schroeder) besides Lebron runs this franchise and he says no also.

[mo7888]

I really like this trade, but I don't think we can fleece the Lakers into doing it. Spurs say yes, DeRozen says hell yes, the lakers think about it for a minute and say we've had enough playoff chokers on this team already (looking at you Schroeder) besides Lebron runs this franchise and he says no also.

I think the lakers do that in a heartbeat... it would win the press cycle there...and what else can they really win?

[mo7888]

Even if Markkanen could be had for the types of contract being discussed, if the Lakers can't come up with something better, get desperate and DeRozan were on board, I'd rather try to sign and trade him for Kuzma, Harrell (re-routed to a third team) and the 22nd pick.

We might be able to flip kuzma and/or Harrell as well... something like to sacto for Barnes and a protected 1st...or for Hield and and unprotected 1st...(just as an example).

[TD 21]

I really like this trade, but I don't think we can fleece the Lakers into doing it. Spurs say yes, DeRozen says hell yes, the lakers think about it for a minute and say we've had enough playoff chokers on this team already (looking at you Schroeder) besides Lebron runs this franchise and he says no also.

Like I said, it'd require their being desperate (as in, missing on whoever their top targets are, getting concerned that they'll be without a secondary creator and talking themselves into DeRozan and him adapting his game to fit on a championship contender).

James and Davis wanted Harrell and Drummond last season, who were obviously going to be terrible fits.



We might be able to flip kuzma and/or Harrell as well... something like to sacto for Barnes and a protected 1st...or for Hield and and unprotected 1st...(just as an example).

Can't imagine the Kings doing either, though the latter seems feasible with some protection.

[mo7888]

Like I said, it'd require their being desperate (as in, missing on whoever their top targets are, getting concerned that they'll be without a secondary creator and talking themselves into DeRozan and him adapting his game to fit on a championship contender).

James and Davis wanted Harrell and Drummond last season, who were obviously going to be terrible fits.




Can't imagine the Kings doing either, though the latter seems feasible with some protection.

I have no assumption of logical behavior from that Kjngs FO...

[TD 21]

I have no assumption of logical behavior from that Kjngs FO...

You do know it's a new regime though, right? Also, they drove a hard bargain on Barnes at the trade deadline.

[mo7888]

You do know it's a new regime though, right? Also, they drove a hard bargain on Barnes at the trade deadline.

I do...I also know that Ranadive is still the owner...

[Rosewood]

They want an established all star and picks. Spurs clearly dont have that currently but Ben just showed he isn't an established star :lol so they just won't trade him I guess.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Even if Markkanen could be had for the types of contract being discussed, if the Lakers can't come up with something better, get desperate and DeRozan were on board, I'd rather try to sign and trade him for Kuzma, Harrell (re-routed to a third team) and the 22nd pick.

This will be so sweet! Then we have two 1st rounders - Two of Kai, Jalen Johnson and Murphy III. Yes!

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I like Jarrett Allen, but we just watched the DPOY get played off the floor in the playoffs... why would you want to max out a lesser version? It makes no sense in the modern NBA. Save that money for shooters, swing players, shot creators, and switchable defenders. Finding a 6'11"/7' guy who plays some D isn't that difficult. The Spurs already have a bargain in Poeltl.

Yes. If you watched the Jazz vs. Clippers. When Clippers play small, Gobert is no longer effective.

[Biggems]

I would love to have Ben Simmons in SA as our PF, he could play point forward for us. Unfortunately, I saw his contract, and I want no part of that beast. He can keep his unhappy ass in Philthy

[exstatic]

Yes. If you watched the Jazz vs. Clippers. When Clippers play small, Gobert is no longer effective.

GS did the same thing to Capela a few years ago, when he was with Houston. You just don’t want to pay a rim roller/rim protector much money

[exstatic]

I would love to have Ben Simmons in SA as our PF, he could play point forward for us. Unfortunately, I saw his contract, and I want no part of that beast. He can keep his unhappy ass in Philthy

He hates that role. Pouted the whole bubble last year, at least until he got hurt, and ultimately got Bret Brown fired.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/hopvph8-AWc

Ben Simmons working on his game.

[EasyMoney]

Lauri can be a great pickup if he plays half his minutes at the 5. He will get abused dealing with athletic 4s.

Murray/mills/jones
White/walker
Johnson/vassell
Markannen/samanic
Poeltl/Eubanks

Add in the 2 draft picks and 2 more FAs

End of game lineup

Murray
White
Vassell
Johnson
Markannen

Surround lauri with defenders

[The Truth #6]

It seems like most people are focused on Laurie vs John Collins. I say we resign Dieng instead. Cheaper, a good 3 point shooter, and probably a better veteran influence.

[EasyMoney]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1412364192556933120?s=19

Interesting. Won't work if Harrell doesn't opt in though. And kcp has a no trade clause I believe.

[Bojo]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1412364192556933120?s=19

Interesting. Won't work if Harrell doesn't opt in though. And kcp has a no trade clause I believe.

I've seen this on undisputed, sure they don't just try to talk this into existence?
If this does happen and Kuzma plus Harrelll come in, Gay will probably be gone as well. Really don't know how happy I'd be with Kuzma, but maybe a change of scenery does something for him. Playing in LA and with LeBron isn't for everyone.
What it does mean though is that San Antonio will fully commit to the young guys, and that's the thing everyone here has been waiting for, eh?

[rankingtear]

It seems like most people are focused on Laurie vs John Collins. I say we resign Dieng instead. Cheaper, a good 3 point shooter, and probably a better veteran influence.

Dieng is 32 and a center.

[The Truth #6]

Dieng is 32 and a center.

Are suggesting he’s going to be too old when we’re in the Finals in a few years or something?

[rankingtear]

Are suggesting he’s going to be too old when we’re in the Finals in a few years or something?

I'm suggesting he won't suddenly have the footspeed to play the 4 because old guys gets slower.

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/1412364192556933120?s=19

Interesting. Won't work if Harrell doesn't opt in though. And kcp has a no trade clause I believe.

Would Lakers have to simultaneously S&T Kuzma to Spurs then? I think I'd rather have their late first round pick.

[BacktoBasics]

You’re going to have to take something back.

[spurspl]

Would Lakers have to simultaneously S&T Kuzma to Spurs then? I think I'd rather have their late first round pick.

Patfo: " Lakers wants ddr? Fine, kuz, harrell, THT and two firsts"

[The Truth #6]

I'm suggesting he won't suddenly have the footspeed to play the 4 because old guys gets slower.

I’m happy to roll with Dieng splitting time with Yak, and play Luka at the 4, in the short term and look to replenish the roster in ways that don’t include Laurie or Collins.

[Dejounte]

Who the fuck is Hoops Analysis Net and why are we trusting them as a source?

[John B]

Demar has great respect for LeBron and the player that he is comes winning time. I'd think Demar would be very cooperating on a S&T.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdAnGr3z9vE

I'd like THT included though besides the 22nd pick (Duarte :lol), Kuzma and Harrell.

[FlAVaK]

Who the fuck is Hoops Analysis Net and why are we trusting them as a source?

All their stuff reads like pure speculation.

Latest says DDR for Kuz, Harrel AND the 22nd...

1412430952912072709

[lmbebo]

He can go to the lakers, but nothing I want back from them except draft pics... and they have none of those.

[mo7888]

He can go to the lakers, but nothing I want back from them except draft pics... and they have none of those.

They've got 1 this year I'd gladly take... I'd prefer to re-route Kuz somewhere for an additional pick and Trez I'd be fine with keeping and possibly trading closer to the deadline.

[Leetonidas]

If Demar tells the Spurs he wants to be with the Lakers I'm sure they'll facilitate his request. Just sucks they don't have anything worth a shit to trade. Their pick of course but Kuzma is garbage and Harrell I'd only take if Dieng doesn't come back. They would need to throw in THT but that would be yet another G on the Spurs roster. Lakers roster outside if LBJ and Davis is really underwhelming

[Mnky]

Kuz and the 22(depending on who is there, Duarte maybe?) Would be a great haul for someone set to walk.

I feel like kuz could be featured in the spurs system and get the most out of his type of scoring. He also is pretty active as a long help defender when he wants to be. Could really fit well, but not sure his personality will.

The 22nd could turn out to be really nice this year. The drop off in the last 15 is not great, and it's really all over the place with the covid restriction year. Could end up with two lottery picks (in the spurs eyes)if it plays out.

Harrell is on an expiring If he chooses to opt in. Could easily be moved for another asset as well to a contender later in the season. Trade deadlines cause teams to get anxious If they believe they are a true contender.

Would definitely take Kuz, the 22, and anything else for a guy set to walk. If that plays out, the spurs would have gotten a pretty decent haul for Kawhi in hindsight considering the forced hand.


That being said, I'm sure PATFO would prefer to send derozan to Milwaukee for Iguoldola and a 2033 2nd rd pick or something like that.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Kuzma on the Spurs would be interesting. Don't really want it, but a lot of their young guys seemed to flourish after getting away from Lebron.

[John B]

Kuzma on the Spurs would be interesting. Don't really want it, but a lot of their young guys seemed to flourish after getting away from Lebron.

More like away from the Lakers :lol

[Robz4000]

I wouldn't touch Kuzma with a ten foot pole, just another failed Laker cast-off. There's no one on the Lakers roster I'd want outside maybe THT.

[Dejounte]

People are down on Kuzma but he holds Pop in high regard. I think he’ll be a good fit here simply because he’ll buy in.

[4lifecowboy]

Last night I dreamt we traded Derozan and Poeltl to Sacramento for Bagley, Holmes, and Heild.

[Dejounte]

Last night I dreamt we traded Derozan and Poeltl to Sacramento for Bagley, Holmes, and Heild.
Sounds like a nightmare.

[TD 21]

People view the value of this in the 22nd pick, but I actually think the Spurs would view Kuzma as the primary value.

They've long been fans and he'd probably be a good fit (I'm not a fan either and am well aware of his inefficiencies, so spare me).

If push comes to shove (Lakers either balk at 22 or Spurs aren't fans of player selected and/or Harrell opts out), I suspect they'd do it for him and Caldwell-Pope (rerouted to a third team).

[CGD]

All their stuff reads like pure speculation.

Latest says DDR for Kuz, Harrel AND the 22nd...

1412430952912072709

yes please.

[eDizzle20]

Can a sign and trade happen before the draft considering free agency doesn’t begin until after it?

[Mr. Body]

Kuzma seems like a decent player off the bench, say, but his advanced metrics show him as negative on both sides of the ball. I wonder why. His stats aren't horrible.

[LCM]

Would you rerout Kuzma and Harrell to Sacramento for Harrison Barnes? Keep the 22nd pick, if Sac wants an additional pick, haggle but keep 22. Kuzma had his best seasons under Walton, plus if Kings deal Bagley and lose Holmes in FA, they will need the help.

Rather resign Dieng as back up 5 then have Harrell.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Can a sign and trade happen before the draft considering free agency doesn’t begin until after it?

No.

Supposedly the idea behind this fantasy trade would be that DDR agrees to do a sign and trade and teams would work out the deal illegally. Sort of similar to what Milwaukee and Sacramento tried and failed last offseason. Basically it’s highly highly unlikely.

[Dex]

No.

Supposedly the idea behind this fantasy trade would be that DDR agrees to do a sign and trade and teams would work out the deal illegally. Sort of similar to what Milwaukee and Sacramento tried and failed last offseason. Basically it’s highly highly unlikely.

Also highly highly unlikely of Pop wanting to strike an illegal deal with the Lakers of all teams, so highly highly highly highly unlikely.

[Seventyniner]

Also highly highly unlikely of Pop wanting to strike an illegal deal with the Lakers of all teams, so highly highly highly highly unlikely.

I don't remember a trade like this happening before, but I maybe it could be legal if the teams discussed it with DDR (and Harrell if he's in the trade and would have to opt in) beforehand. The teams agree in principle to the deal before the draft and the Spurs tell the Lakers who to pick at #21. Then they consummate the deal once free agents can sign contracts.

Is it illegal or tampering for the Spurs to allow DDR to talk to the Lakers prior to the draft? If it is then the whole deal is illegal and it won't happen.

Even if the deal is legal, there would be nothing stopping the Lakers from backing out if a player they really like unexpectedly falls to #21, or the Spurs from backing out if they make another deal that would conflict with the Lakers trade.

Would it be legal for the Spurs to send a short list to the Lakers on draft night and tell them "we will only do the DDR trade with you if you draft one of the players on this list at #21"?

I'm just thinking out loud here. If my understanding is flawed then I would appreciate being corrected.

[objective]

Hard to be sure for me on the legalities. Bogdanovic was restricted, don't know if that makes a difference.

Chris Paul basically did the same thing when he orchestrated the trade to Houston, except he did have the player option factoring in.

One way to do it legally would be to announce the salary dump, Harrell and 22 for expected cap space and like a protected future second. Then after free agency starts, it's "Well wouldn't you know it, we can expand this trade! Let's fold in Kuzma and DDR while we're at it! Golly, what a fortunate turn of events.".

[tbdog]

DDR can't speak to other teams yet. But his agent can.

[Realdeal1]

I’d pull the trigger on a Derozan for Kuzma , Harrell and 22nd pick trade in a heartbeat

[slick'81]

Lakers literally tried to fck sa over before. Im real hesitant on lakers giving us any value for ddr

[mo7888]

Lakers literally tried to fck sa over before. Im real hesitant on lakers giving us any value for ddr

Sure, but all the leverage is with the Spurs here.

[slick'81]

Sure, but all the leverage is with the Spurs here.



sure,assuming lakers actually want ddr. If spurs can get kuzma and a pick id be fine with that

[Teamduncan21]

There are also comments on kemba to Lakers for kuzma. So I guess not derozan

[slick'81]

Still holding out hope derozan brings spurs something positive in return

[ragas]

There are also comments on kemba to Lakers for kuzma. So I guess not derozan

They have to be really dumb to add Kemba to this already injury-prone squad

[Teamduncan21]

They have to be really dumb to add Kemba to this already injury-prone squad

ye, hope they do it though, kemba, and derozan not sure how they fit, so they wont win championship again

[Rocalcio]

There are also comments on kemba to Lakers for kuzma. So I guess not derozan

Walker’s knees are dead.

[The Truth #6]

DDR on the Lakers. It could help them with scoring relief, but like everywhere he goes, his negatives typically put a ceiling on the team. I mean, there’s definitely a chance this hurts the Lakers and closes their window. Unfortunately, I don’t see them offering what we need, other than that 22 pick, which would be great. Kuzma...maybe better than Laurie? I have to think about that. Neither are really good.

[R. DeMurre]

Still holding out hope derozan brings spurs something positive in return

Me too. If it turns out he doesn't that would mean the Spurs lost Kyle Anderson, Bryn Forbes, Aldridge, and DeRozan-- four starters for them-- all for nothing. I'd say right now the FO is regarded as very strong with regard to scouting the draft, but not too versatile or resilient when it comes to trades.

[SAGirl]

Me too. If it turns out he doesn't that would mean the Spurs lost Kyle Anderson, Bryn Forbes, Aldridge, and DeRozan-- four starters for them-- all for nothing. I'd say right now the FO is regarded as very strong with regard to scouting the draft, but not too versatile or resilient when it comes to trades.
I´ve said this for a long time.
They also traded Bertans for nothing. Even if he´s overrated and fans hate on him once he´s out the door, the point is that he was in high demand in the league. He had value. The Spurs got no value for him.)

When people blame all of the Spurs bad fortune on Kawhi, they omit the fact that its been a few years since that happened, and the Spurs FO has been crap at playing the field, the FO "game." They also IMO chose to "remain competitive" when a rebuild was advisable, not just because Kawhi left, but because they sent Danny out, they let Anderson go for nothing and Timmy and Manu retired and Tony fell off a cliff and left. They needed talent to build around and could have found some assets including a player to build around by now, seeing as a few teams that had aging stars or adverse situations found themselves with top picks to build around and turned things around quickly. It´s not going to be pretty until it gets better was my thought back then. I knew that once Timmy retired the team was going to be in nowhere land anyways before Kawhi came in as the purported heir. It´s not bad management, it´s a fact of life, father time is undefeated, Kawhi stalled what was coming anyways for one year but he wanted to go back to California... He was an ass about it, but he would have left by not resigning when his deal was up anyways, and the team would have been where they are anyway.

That´s why a few fans also hoped for the tank back then, because the FO hasn´t been saavy playing the trade market and the team is unlikely to attract a FA star, the draft is the only way to turn things around with their current MO. Anyways, they did lose starters for 0 back, and some of those players had value around the league, maybe not the full value they wanted, but some value. They didn´t want to rebuild was their point. They didn´t want packages based on picks, etc. Well that limits the playing field. I wasn´t a fan of their choices and it soured me on the team for a good long while.

[Seventyniner]

They also traded Bertans for nothing. Even if he´s overrated and fans hate on him once he´s out the door, the point is that he was in high demand in the league. He had value. The Spurs got no value for him.)

What the Spurs essentially got for Bertans was a 99% chance to sign Morris for the MLE; the only reason the Spurs did that trade was because Morris verbally agreed and they wanted to honor their offer to Carroll. Morris reneging was something players almost never do and you can't blame the FO for that.

You also can't reasonably expect to get value back for every single player that ever leaves. Not re-signing a free agent opens a roster spot and allows for more cap/tax flexibility, and not every team that signs a Spurs free agent can be expected to do a sign-and-trade to give an asset to the Spurs.

[rjv]

What the Spurs essentially got for Bertans was a 99% chance to sign Morris for the MLE; the only reason the Spurs did that trade was because Morris verbally agreed and they wanted to honor their offer to Carroll. Morris reneging was something players almost never do and you can't blame the FO for that.

You also can't reasonably expect to get value back for every single player that ever leaves. Not re-signing a free agent opens a roster spot and allows for more cap/tax flexibility, and not every team that signs a Spurs free agent can be expected to do a sign-and-trade to give an asset to the Spurs.

yeah-blaming the spurs FO for the bertans deal is a reach because the spurs thought they had morris, which would have been a solid acquisition only to have him do something that was almost unheard of and shady (even morris admitted as much)

[SAGirl]

yeah-blaming the spurs FO for the bertans deal is a reach because the spurs thought they had morris, which would have been a solid acquisition only to have him do something that was almost unheard of and shady (even morris admitted as much)
The Spurs were awful in that stretch. Morris hurt them badly reneging on his deal, but Spurs could have extracted something from Washington, a desperate franchise, or whomever, and on top of that one of the reasons they had to trade Davis IIRC had to do with them not wanting to renege on their own awful deal with Demarre Carroll.

When you go back and look at the Pau Gasol deal, and look at other moves they made in FA, it all keeps casting a bad light. They didn´t nail any FA move they made for a few years in a row, and missed on plenty of opportunities to extract some value from young players they developed and had no plans for.

Thinking about this, they probably will re-sign Walker and we have to hope he continues to improve. They aren´t saavy enough to get him on some kind of deal to get some value back... and letting him walk again when they spent resources developing him should be avoided if possible.

Of course if he becomes surplus because they draft somebody who makes me as a fan not care about things like that I´ll be happy. True stars are able to conceal many flaws, like bad FO choices, which unfortunately probably will only get exposed in the playoffs (the Mavs are a good example)... anyways, not happy with the FO FA skill tbh.

[rjv]

The Spurs were awful in that stretch. Morris hurt them badly reneging on his deal, but Spurs could have extracted something from Washington, a desperate franchise, or whomever, and on top of that one of the reasons they had to trade Davis IIRC had to do with them not wanting to renege on their own awful deal with Demarre Carroll.

When you go back and look at the Pau Gasol deal, and look at other moves they made in FA, it all keeps casting a bad light. They didn´t nail any FA move they made for a few years in a row, and missed on plenty of opportunities to extract some value from young players they developed and had no plans for.

Thinking about this, they probably will re-sign Walker and we have to hope he continues to improve. They aren´t saavy enough to get him on some kind of deal to get some value back... and letting him walk again when they spent resources developing him should be avoided if possible.

Of course if he becomes surplus because they draft somebody who makes me as a fan not care about things like that I´ll be happy. True stars are able to conceal many flaws, like bad FO choices, which unfortunately probably will only get exposed in the playoffs (the Mavs are a good example)... anyways, not happy with the FO FA skill tbh.

i don't have the inclination to go back and do the research but to be as concise as possible in regards to any critique of the spurs FO, one would have to look at cap space available and FAs available for each year that the spurs made a signing. in other words, we know carroll was an awful fit for the spurs but who else could the spurs have signed that was available (and wiling to sign with the spurs for a contract that would work)? now, i know you like Kyle (and i defended him quite a bit back then as well) but i wasn't torn when he left and although he is a better player now than he was then, i still don't know that i would want him back. i know for sure that i'm still glad forbes is gone. did the spurs hang on to marco too long? yes. have they hung on to patty for too long? yes. but everything shifted for a few reason and yes, kawhi was one of those reasons. the spurs tried to make it work with derozan but he's just not a top tier player, so i hope they let him go and preferably get a sign and trade out of him (for a pick or picks). the other was the spurs weren't prepared for the paradigm shift that the NBA had had over the past few years and were too big man centered. thankfully, LMA is gone, Gasol is long gone and we have shifted to more functional big men-or role focused bigs. i like some of our younger players and i hope they can continue to blossom because this current core may very well determine the course of the franchise for the next decade.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Who the fuck is Hoops Analysis Net and why are we trusting them as a source?

They come up in my Google feed all the time and I don't even bother reading them anymore. Read two or three and you'll see why. And most of their trade ideas are impossible or horribly imbalanced.

[rankingtear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJppgdMGIhA

I am asking for THT even without a pick. Freaky tools ( 6-4, 230 with 7-1 wingspan ) and a consistent jump shot away from being a two-way offensive engine.

[Seventyniner]

I am asking for THT even without a pick. Freaky tools ( 6-4, 230 with 7-1 wingspan ) and a consistent jump shot away from being a two-way offensive engine.

By what I can tell, THT is a free agent. That means he would have to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Spurs as part of the deal.

Of course, if the Spurs want him bad enough they can just offer him a sizable contract. No need to deal with the Lakers.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

By what I can tell, THT is a free agent. That means he would have to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Spurs as part of the deal.

Of course, if the Spurs want him bad enough they can just offer him a sizable contract. No need to deal with the Lakers.

He's restricted though. Lakers might have bigger fish to fry and refuse to match a decent offer, especially since they'll be in the luxury tax again. However, not sure how he'd fit on the Spurs - we already have a few players, who are a jump shot away from being good.

[mo7888]

He's restricted though. Lakers might have bigger fish to fry and refuse to match a decent offer, especially since they'll be in the luxury tax again. However, not sure how he'd fit on the Spurs - we already have a few players, who are a jump shot away from being good.

I'm pretty sure the Lakers are limited as to how high they can go to match because he was a 2nd rd pick. We could do the trade without him and turn around and outbid them for him in FA if we valued him like that.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers are limited as to how high they can go to match because he was a 2nd rd pick. We could do the trade without him and turn around and outbid them for him in FA if we valued him like that.

They have early bird rights and other teams are limited in what they can offer him as a starting salary (Arenas provision). Lakers can match if they want, depends on what the offer would be and how much they’re willing to spend.

[R. DeMurre]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJppgdMGIhA

I am asking for THT even without a pick. Freaky tools ( 6-4, 230 with 7-1 wingspan ) and a consistent jump shot away from being a two-way offensive engine.

DeRozan is tough and he can defend:lol Shannon Sharpe is terrible at analyzing basketball.

[mo7888]

They have early bird rights and other teams are limited in what they can offer him as a starting salary (Arenas provision). Lakers can match if they want, depends on what the offer would be and how much they’re willing to spend.

That's true, they can technically match but an under the cap team can make it prohibitively expensive for them with a PP contract... Something like this...

2021-22: $9,535,740 (equal to non-taxpayer mid-level exception)2022-23: $10,012,527 (105% of first-year salary)2023-24: $30,913,905 (110% of a 2021-22 max salary for a player with fewer than seven years experience)2024-25: $32,305,031 (104.5% of third-year salary)Total: $82,767,203

(I'm not advocating this because I don't think he's worth nearly this from my viewpoint)... I'm just saying there are ways if an under the cap team really values him.

[rjv]

DeRozan is tough and he can defend:lol Shannon Sharpe is terrible at analyzing basketball.

:rollin

[FutureMan]

Spurs can do better on a sign and trade but it is tempting to let the California teams bid higher and higher for DeRozan.

[EasyMoney]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1412914765190606849?s=19

Now, if Atlanta does not want to lose him for nothing, and demar wants to contend, a sign and trade could benefit both. Demar signing for 30m a year for 3 years only does not sound bad for Atlanta.

[tonight...you]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1412914765190606849?s=19

Now, if Atlanta does not want to lose him for nothing, and demar wants to contend, a sign and trade could benefit both. Demar signing for 30m a year for 3 years only does not sound bad for Atlanta.
Is that like... reverse tampering?

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1412914765190606849?s=19

Now, if Atlanta does not want to lose him for nothing, and demar wants to contend, a sign and trade could benefit both. Demar signing for 30m a year for 3 years only does not sound bad for Atlanta.

If they were willing to pony up big salary, they’d just keep Collins. What might work, and move some redundant and soon to be redundant pieces would be Luka and Lonnie for Collins.

[R. DeMurre]

John Collins is the perfect illustration of how difficult it can be to keep a team together and have continuity. He's a good player, but he's not a max player. And maxing him out means there will be trouble down the line keeping Trae + De'Andre Hunter + others. But he thinks he has earned a max contract. I think it was Don Nelson who once joked that coaches think there are 10 max players in the league, but agents and players think there are 45.

[SpursDynasty85]

DeRozan is tough and he can defend:lol Shannon Sharpe is terrible at analyzing basketball.

You could tell Sharpe knew he sounded dumb when he said the defends part but that’s what these shows are. One side argues for and against basically. Anything that’ll make people scream at each other basically.

[cd98]

Laugh, but DDR would be a great 3rd guy on a championship team.

[Prime BEEF]

If they were willing to pony up big salary, they’d just keep Collins. What might work, and move some redundant and soon to be redundant pieces would be Luka and Lonnie for Collins.
Would love this

[BatManu20]

Collins on the Spurs would be fucking awesome tbh, but not on a Max deal. He ain’t worth that. But I’d definitely be willing to overpay for him. Trade DeMar, let Rudy and Patty walk, and start the youth movement.

[EricB]

If they were willing to pony up big salary, they’d just keep Collins. What might work, and move some redundant and soon to be redundant pieces would be Luka and Lonnie for Collins.


if ownership isn’t willing to pony up to match the Spurs there’s zero reason to give up two good young players

[EricB]

Collins on the Spurs would be fucking awesome tbh, but not on a Max deal. He ain’t worth that. But I’d definitely be willing to overpay for him. Trade DeMar, let Rudy and Patty walk, and start the youth movement.

the max for Collins wouldn’t be a gigantic max. He’s worth the max that’s he’s eligible for.

[BatManu20]

Make it happen PATFO.

https://media.kens5.com/assets/KENS/images/c0dc9135-9ab7-4c32-9711-c8bfc28a48aa/c0dc9135-9ab7-4c32-9711-c8bfc28a48aa_750x422.png

[slick'81]

Make it happen PATFO.

https://media.kens5.com/assets/KENS/images/c0dc9135-9ab7-4c32-9711-c8bfc28a48aa/c0dc9135-9ab7-4c32-9711-c8bfc28a48aa_750x422.png


If only but alperen sengun might not be a bad consolation prize

[BatManu20]

If only but alperen sengun might not be a bad consolation prize

Me thinks he’ll be long gone by 12. Don’t think he gets past the Hornets.

[slick'81]

Me thinks he’ll be long gone by 12. Don’t think he gets past the Hornets.

Still holding out hope somehting good falls to the spurs (sf/pf)but yeah colins would be a nice fit at pf

[Kurik]

I like Collins a lot but wasn’t impressed with his production during the Bucks series but I wouldn’t be mad to see him on the Spurs. I think I just prefer Markkanen on the cheaper deal and I have blind faith that the organization can revive his career.

[Rocalcio]

Would love this

Not me, Collins’ Playoffs weren’t amazing, I don’t like his mentality, and we still don’t know what we have in Samanic and Walker. If they blossom somewhere else I’d be pissed.

[EricB]

Make it happen PATFO.

https://media.kens5.com/assets/KENS/images/c0dc9135-9ab7-4c32-9711-c8bfc28a48aa/c0dc9135-9ab7-4c32-9711-c8bfc28a48aa_750x422.png


he’s theirs if they offer him the max.

[slick'81]

Hawks have publicly said they will match a max offer for colins,but i guess we shall see

[exstatic]

Hawks have publicly said they will match a max offer for colins,but i guess we shall see

Their owner recently, like post playoffs, said it was unlikely. Sounds to me like he’s on the fence. My trade idea was to give him a nudge, give him a reason to let go.

[Dejounte]

I don’t think the Spurs even attempt to sign Collins. Signing him creates a benchmark for salary negotiations and opens the door to overpaying everyone else. If he doesn’t perform any better than this past season, which I truly believe is the best he’ll ever produce since he played with Trae, then it’s such a low performance threshold for other players to argue with the Spurs that they performed just as good or better.

If people foresee the Spurs having trouble keeping stars past their contract, signing Collins would cause them trouble in re-signing good role players.

[tbdog]

Good article on Spurs and Collins

https://www.kens5.com/article/sports/nba/spurs/spurs-john-collins-hawks-nba-free-agency/273-8629c729-8ee9-4d50-9682-37c9be24a0c8

[Dejounte]

Like to add, signing Collins to the max also brings the expectation that he’ll be a captain for the team. I don’t think he’s respected enough as a player to earn a title like that, and especially with how the Spurs operate with hierarchy, it just doesn’t seem like a Spurs thing to do.

[Atl Spur]

Don’t want Collins ; prefer markkanen

[objective]

I'm still in on Collins at the max.

He's a better defender than anyone credits him for. He had a game saving block in the playoffs, he's legit

His scoring was down, but that's due to Atlanta having so many mouths to feed on top of Trae Young being the alpha. The Spurs have the opposite problem. They will need more scoring and Collins will be on position for much higher usage.

Between DeRozan, Gay and Mills that's a ton of usage that will need replacing. Better going for Collins then say Markannen.

And I don't think it would be too much of a risk as far as cap ramifications or keeping players happy. They won't be in a position to get the next big free agent superstar anyway. No one presently figures to be good enough to break the bank, and even if they happens if will be years away with a higher cap anyway because we all know Lonnie isn't on pace for even Dejounte money.

And if the Spurs were still a lotto team next year and win the lottery to get their next superstar then Collins will be off the books before their extension kicks in, so no harm there.

Lastly, I think signing Collins to a max sheet is a win-win. Because if Atlanta matches they're now going to be a tax team for years and the Holts will get a cut of that sweet sweet tax money.

[Dejounte]

CQ902MLjt1a

click the right arrow.

To end the season, Collins posted a photo of him barking at Dejounte :lmao

This dude isn’t coming here even if the Spurs wanted him.

[Degoat]

If we signed Collins I’d be excited but I can’t see it happening! He’s not worth anything close to the max imo

[Dex]

If we signed Collins I’d be excited but I can’t see it happening! He’s not worth anything close to the max imo

I agree, but the fact remains that the Spurs are going to have to overpay to attract any real star talent since we don't have a lot of other things to offer right now (missed the playoffs 2 years, small market team, not the most exciting destination, etc.)

The other option is we take the cap-space we have and split it between two mid-tier players...but I feel like that doesn't move the needle much. If DeRozan leaves, we need star power.

[Dejounte]

I agree, but the fact remains that the Spurs are going to have to overpay to attract any real star talent since we don't have a lot of other things to offer right now (missed the playoffs 2 years, small market team, not the most exciting destination, etc.)

The other option is we take the cap-space we have and split it between two mid-tier players...but I feel like that doesn't move the needle much. If DeRozan leaves, we need star power.

Collins isn’t exactly “star power” and doesn’t move the needle much either.

[Dex]

Collins isn’t exactly “star power” and doesn’t move the needle much either.

Fair enough...but he's one of the best options left on the market at this point. And even then, it seems unlikely for us to be able to afford him.

All that maneuvering for 2021 and we're left with the shittiest free agency market in years.

Maybe it does make sense just to rent out some cap space, sign some players to short deals, and try again in a couple years.

Thanks a lot, Obama.

[Dejounte]

Fair enough...but he's one of the best options left on the market at this point. And even then, it seems unlikely for us to be able to afford him.

All that maneuvering for 2021 and we're left with the shittiest free agency market in years.

Maybe it does make sense just to rent out some cap space, sign some players to short deals, and try again in a couple years.

Thanks a lot, Obama.

It happens. Opportunities come and go. People complaining about the Spurs being a treadmill team need to realize signing Collins probably secures that title for this team in the long run. As we’ve seen in the last month, there are disgruntled stars who magically become available every year for a trade. I’d rather gamble on that than this. And I’m fully aware how seldom the Spurs make trades.

[EasyMoney]

Which is why I expect Lauri to be the only free agent they'll be willing to throw money at. Stock has dropped, will be cheaper, and clearly needs a change of scenery. And, of course, a tall non American born talent? Come on now.

[rjv]

collins is not worth the max. he is a solid role player and could make a few all star appearances but that's not worth max $$.

[duncan2150]

If i can have Markannen with way less money than J Collins, i may go with Lauri.

I like Collins but giving him the max mean he can be the leader of the franchise and i have a doubt.

[exstatic]

Don’t want Collins ; prefer markkanen

Why?

[lmbebo]

collins is not worth the max. he is a solid role player and could make a few all star appearances but that's not worth max $$.

Think MAX is relative... Think max for him would be 4 yrs at $120? starting at $28 mil? Probably a bit high, but we aren't going to get value going for a RFA or a FA .....

[The Truth #6]

Collins would help somewhat but not worth it in my opinion. His stats are likely inflated by playing with Trae. The highest paid player probably needs to be the alpha on the team, and he isn’t it. Also, might be kind of a dick. I’m perfectly happy to give Luka a chance next year. We aren’t going to be great next year regardless of Collins or not.

[Degoat]

Drafting Josh Giddey and signing Collins would be interesting but he just isn’t a star player imo… Honestly Demar is more of a star than him

[offset formation]

If we offered Jarrett Allen max, would Cleveland match?

Poeltl 2.0 with a *bit* better range...why?

[exstatic]

collins is not worth the max. he is a solid role player and could make a few all star appearances but that's not worth max $$.

Here’s a little insight: role players don’t make All Star teams. Not sure how you can call a player with a legit 20/10 season a role player, anyway. He’s a star. Is he a superstar/franchise guy? No, but those are almost never legitimately available in FA.

[rankingtear]

Here’s a little insight: role players don’t make All Star teams. Not sure how you can call a player with a legit 20/10 season a role player, anyway. He’s a star. Is he a superstar/franchise guy? No, but those are almost never legitimately available in FA.

Except when they do.

[KDKSpurs24]

Here’s a little insight: role players don’t make All Star teams. Not sure how you can call a player with a legit 20/10 season a role player, anyway. He’s a star. Is he a superstar/franchise guy? No, but those are almost never legitimately available in FA.
I’m gonna just have to throw Draymond’s name out there to combat this statement. And then there’s that year when Atlanta had 4 guys make it who wouldn’t usually fit the bill. But I’m only just referring to this one statement and not the conversation you replied to.

[Teamduncan21]

I’m gonna just have to throw Draymond’s name out there to combat this statement. And then there’s that year when Atlanta had 4 guys make it who wouldn’t usually fit the bill. But I’m only just referring to this one statement and not the conversation you replied to.

kyle korver made all star for hawks. Yao Ming made all star despite almost not playing cause China voted for him. Bynum is another trash.

[Dejounte]

Teams with Kyle Korver-type all stars (the type Collins is) don’t win championships.

[mo7888]

Teams with Kyle Korver-type all stars (the type Collins is) don’t win championships.

How do you equate Collins with Korver here? I'm struggling to see that..

[Dejounte]

How do you equate Collins with Korver here? I'm struggling to see that..

Nothing related to their game, but their level of play, role and contribution to a team. The post before mines mentioned Kyle.

[rjv]

Here’s a little insight: role players don’t make All Star teams. Not sure how you can call a player with a legit 20/10 season a role player, anyway. He’s a star. Is he a superstar/franchise guy? No, but those are almost never legitimately available in FA.

bill cartwright, a.c. green, bj armstrong, tyson chandler, chris gatling, kyle korver, brad miller, tyrone hill, mehmeet okur, roy hibbert, jamall migloire all made all-star teams but i would not call any of them legit stars; they were solid role players who often benefited from who they played with. clint capela averaged almost 17/13 in 2018 but who were his guards? he had another solid season this year and who is his guard now? collins is solid and an occasional star but i think his game is not yet well-rounded enough to say he's beyond being a very good role player, yet.

[Degoat]

Guys have bad nights but the 1st game that Trae young missed in the eastern conference finals John Collins scored 4 points in…. Not saying I don’t want him but it would be hard to max a guy like him.

[exstatic]

bill cartwright, a.c. green, bj armstrong, tyson chandler, chris gatling, kyle korver, brad miller, tyrone hill, mehmeet okur, roy hibbert, jamall migloire all made all-star teams but i would not call any of them legit stars; they were solid role players who often benefited from who they played with. clint capela averaged almost 17/13 in 2018 but who were his guards? he had another solid season this year and who is his guard now? collins is solid and an occasional star but i think his game is not yet well-rounded enough to say he's beyond being a very good role player, yet.
Clint Capella is a horrible comp. Collins shoots the 3 ball. Capela is a rim runner. He’s Poeltl with a tan.

[rjv]

Clint Capella is a horrible comp. Collins shoots the 3 ball. Capela is a rim runner. He’s Poeltl with a tan.

it wasn't meant to be a comp, player to player; it was meant to show how capela has benefited from whom he has played with. ergo, his numbers alone don't reflect his true value. but yes, collins is more diverse.

[lmbebo]

I think he could be overpaid for the max. But we don't have much talen at the 4/5 spot. He fits what we need, he pairs well with Jakob. Its a risk worth taking.

[The Truth #6]

I think he could be overpaid for the max. But we don't have much talen at the 4/5 spot. He fits what we need, he pairs well with Jakob. Its a risk worth taking.

Jakob/Collins is most assuredly a better pairing than Dieng/Luka, yet I prefer the latter and think the product on the court might be closer than we think.

[exstatic]

John Collins will replace DeRozans scoring, have true PF size, and space the floor with 3 point shooting. Isn’t that what everyone has been wanting for the last two years?

[SpursDynasty85]

Nothing related to their game, but their level of play, role and contribution to a team. The post before mines mentioned Kyle.

John Collins averaged 21 and 10 the year before the franchise up and straight gave the keys, steering wheel, and car to Trae. Started off bad, particularly because Collin and Trae stopped meshing well this year (whose fault is that?, probably not Collins). Then the team started gelling and Collins adjusted to his role as well as the whole Atlanta team (good talent all-around). On any young team, Collins would easily be the 2nd-tier option. He certainly helped them have a very good season so, equating him to Kyle Korver (literally like, at best the 4th option on an ok team) is weird tbh. I certainly don't see Collins as anything lower than a 3-rd option an a good/great team.

[John B]

John Collins is a 20/10 guy who can space the floor. It's a no brainer. The PATFO should try and get him.
If Poeltl is not a liability in scoring and can improve his FT to at least 70%, then he's okay.
The rest of the youngsters need to improve also. DJ to borderline star, Derek to stay healthy, Lonnie continue being aggressive, etc. Plus whatever haul we can get from Demar S&T to the Lakers.
Because JC would need all the help.

PATFO needs to get busy this off-season, because I'm ready to switch my sports to soccer if they continue to play it cheap.

[R. DeMurre]

Collins was a 20/10 guy... on an Atlanta team that had a terrible record. This season he was a 17.6/7.4 guy during the season and a 13.9/8.7 guy in the playoffs. I think that's closer to the real John Collins. 20/10 sounds impressive, but something like 15/8 with mediocre defense, while interesting, isn't quite as alluring, and probably not part of a max contract conversation.

[Dejounte]

John Collins averaged 21 and 10 the year before the franchise up and straight gave the keys, steering wheel, and car to Trae. Started off bad, particularly because Collin and Trae stopped meshing well this year (whose fault is that?, probably not Collins). Then the team started gelling and Collins adjusted to his role as well as the whole Atlanta team (good talent all-around). On any young team, Collins would easily be the 2nd-tier option. He certainly helped them have a very good season so, equating him to Kyle Korver (literally like, at best the 4th option on an ok team) is weird tbh. I certainly don't see Collins as anything lower than a 3-rd option an a good/great team.

I understand what you’re saying, but what does it say about Collins if he can’t be a top 3 guy on a team like the Hawks? Why would it work here?

[CGD]

What would the Collins max look like actually?

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Why do folks think Lauri would work for our currently constructed roster better at the 4? I don’t think Lauri is mobile enough defensively to play the 4 alongside Poetl.

Jakob moves pretty well for a center but he still isn’t the quickest laterally and gets picked on a bit with teams using the pick & roll. I think having two big guys playing side by side a lot who aren’t the greatest at laterally moving is a recipe for disaster defensively. Maybe if Lauri was a good weak side shit blocker that could help, but unfortunately he isn’t.

if Samanic was to finally figure shit out on both sides of the ball he would be the perfect fit beside Jakob because he has really good laterally quickness. But his weak side defense needs alot of work. He showed last season to have gotten better on man to man defense though.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

John Collins will replace DeRozans scoring, have true PF size, and space the floor with 3 point shooting. Isn’t that what everyone has been wanting for the last two years? yeah but it sucks we have to max that guy

[Teamduncan21]

Collins is not max guy. However we do have excess cap and need to make moves.
I guess a bigger first year salary gradually lessening would be ideal. So by 3rd year or so he will be paid 25-27m which will make it easier to navigate and sign other players.

For case of Lauri. If we spend say 15-20m. The next question is who else should we sign for the remaining 10-15m. That will be the comparison point.

[rankingtear]

Jae Crowder is the gold standard of the PF position now. 6 3PA per game and versatile switch defense.

[SpursDynasty85]

I understand what you’re saying, but what does it say about Collins if he can’t be a top 3 guy on a team like the Hawks? Why would it work here?

Who are the top guys in Atlanta you think? Although close with Collins, Bogdanovic and Capela, I would choose Collins as their 2nd most dangerous player. When you have Trae Young getting the ball like Harden and Doncic then you can see why Capela and Bogdanovics' of the world are getting fed but Collins was still very effective and shoots a high percentage from 3. If Trae ever goes down, Collins would easily be average 20 & 10 and keeping the ship afloat I'm sure. That Hawks team if intact should compete for a while.

I will say he may be worth max money to some teams but to ours, I would pass unless its around $25-27M/yr.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I can understand the trepidation over the potential of signing Collins to a Max offer sheet but I also see the small chance it could turn out to be a good contract in the long run.

Looking at his numbers the guy has consistently been a pretty efficient scorer since getting drafted and he only got better actually shooting the ball with range each season. He is a good rebounder and solid on defense already and he will be only 24 when the new season starts back. He has two seasons where he averaged (if you round up lol) 20 points per game on very good shooting % numbers. The season he averaged less points and minutes per game but Atlanta had more offensive weapons and he still averaged almost 18 points per game this season.

Collins would be featured more with us which could expose him a bit offensively or, it could help him show or unlock more of his 1on1 skills. Not too mention Pop and the coaching staff would definitely do a good job drawing up plays to get him looks in his sweet spots.

he is a way better all around player than Lauri and he is still young. The team has to spend money on players so they might as well go for a guy who potentially has a chance to be an all star. When Atlanta traded for Joe Johnson many years ago they knew he was a good player but he became an all star once he got there. The same could maybe happen if we got Collins…… or he could just turn out to be a sold role player that’s slightly over paid. Lmao.

he is also a military brat who does a lot for veterans in and around Atlanta so they would love him in San Antonio

[objective]

Collins will probably be better as a Spur. I think he's one of those guys who is thought of as just a product of a team or role and then surprises when he gets the chance to take on more in a new spot.

Remember people thought Joe Johnson was just a 3rd-4th option. James Harden was just a 6th man who was trash in the finals who would be exposed without alphas like Durant and Westbrook. Amar'e without Nash would be Hakim Warrick, and Warrick with Nash would be Amar'e. Nash without Dirk would be nobody.

Also, he's better than Lauri. Even if you ignore that Collins is a much better defender and I feel more complete offensive player, he has been more dependable. Lauri has had more injuries and fatigue issues. If people think they'll be annoyed watching Collins get paid 28 to play, they're going to feel worse when Lauri is getting 20 and is sitting in street clothes because of some syndrome or coming off the bench because Samanic/Sengun/Franz stepped up when he was out and the team looked better.