So Let's Talk Whole Offseason

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don't like looking at things in a vacuum. Instead of just looking at who you want in the Top 4, or with the Spurs' own 9th pick, try and look at the whole offseason. The Spurs have 3 FRP, and loads of cap space to go after a top FA, or facilitate deals. But if they go small-ish in the draft, they would almost have to be thinking about using that cap space for a bigger PF or a more dynamic C. How would you coordinate all that? I've got a few pretty specific questions to start:

I assume most people agree that if the Spurs hit the lottery, they would pick one of the 3 PF's at the top? But what if the Spurs got the 4th pick from the lottery, and Banchero, Holmgren, and Smith are gone? Would you take the 6'4" Ivey, or the 6'8" Keegan Murray?

What if they don't hit the lottery? I don't think they could trade up enough to get one of the Big 3 without including a player. I assume DJ and Keldon are off the table. So would you trade Vassell and the 9th pick to get up to one of those guys? Would you trade Vassell and the 9th, plus Toronto's 21 pick to get up to one of those 3 PF's at the top?

Okay, so let's just assume the Spurs stick with their own 9th pick. Another wing, if that's BPA? Or do they swing for a more dynamic big man? The mocks have been calling for the Spurs to draft Duren for months. Would you take Duren, the C, or Tari Eason the PF, or do you really love Sochan at the 9th pick?

Finally, would you try to go after a free agent big man with the cap space? I don't see anyone outside of DeAndre Ayton, and he's restricted, plus that still leaves the 4 position small. Ayton did decide to test free agency, rather than taking an extension from Phoenix. Would you take a throw at him, knowing that it would take something approaching a max deal - even if you used a player or future pick to sweeten a sign and trade?

[ZeusWillJudge]

I hope you don't mind me jacking this into yet a third thread, but you're going down the path I was talking about. Looking more than just picks to a coordinated effort.


Posted this in another thread by accident.

I am ok with the team at four of the five spots for now tbh (1,2,3 and 5), the 4-spot needs to be improved desperately and that will have positive flow-on effects such as moving Keldon to his natural SF position, and moving McDermott to the bench as the backup 4 which suits his skillset. Making these two lineup changes alone improves the starting lineups rebounding and defense, two areas its severely lacking.

Improving the 4-spot has to be the main goal of the draft surely. The Spurs have a couple of options here. In the order of likeliness;

Option 1: Keep the projected 9th pick and take Sochan or Tari Eason as your future 4.

Option 2: Trade up to the 4-5 range in the draft and pick Keegan Murray. This will cost you assets such as an established player and/or the Spurs other two 1sts projected at 20 and 24.

Option 3: Keep the projected 9th pick and take the best player available which may be Mathurin, Sharpe or Griffin (depends who the Spurs like) and continue to play undersized at the 4 spot next season.

Option 4: Pick Jalen Duren and trade Jakob for a PF. I think OG Anunoby is gettable as they have Siakam and Barnes at the 3/4 spots. Not saying the Raptors take that deal straight up but I think they're definitely looking for a C.

[Dejounte]

Only likely available free agents I’m interested in are: Malik Monk, Tyus Jones, Jalen Smith, TJ Warren. I think they just rent the cap space out once again and gamble on someone similar to what they did with Collins.

Ivey over Keegan.

I don’t think anyone in the top four trades their pick (happens so rarely) but if we’re playing this game then absolutely yes, anyone is up for grabs except Murray. To be more specific, if it’s either Ivey or Banchero that’s there then I’m willing to part with Keldon, Vassell, or Poeltl.

At the 9th pick, I’m drafting in this order (assuming certain guys are gone):
Eason
Dyson
PBJ
Sochan
Mathurin

Same order obviously if the Spurs pick at 15th.

[Robz4000]

Get a starting-caliber PF whether through FA, trade, or the draft then rent out cap space for more assets. If Lonnie will take ~$8mil or less to stay you keep him otherwise let him walk/sign-and-trade him. Also look into bringing in a vet PG who doesn't mind limited/no minutes.

[scott]

Don’t forget the possibility that we use these picks to acquire a ready to go, established PF.

My dream off season: hit the lotto to take Banchero or Smith, sign Lavine, trade TOR and BOS picks to parlay into future (better) picks. Likelihood is approx 0.2%

Edit: also sign Ibaka for big man depth. Don’t know how good he even is these days, just always liked that guy

[ZeusWillJudge]

Only likely available free agents I’m interested in are: Malik Monk, Tyus Jones, Jalen Smith, TJ Warren. I think they just rent the cap space out once again and gamble on someone similar to what they did with Collins.

Ivey over Keegan.

I don’t think anyone in the top four trades their pick (happens so rarely) but if we’re playing this game then absolutely yes, anyone is up for grabs except Murray. To be more specific, if it’s either Ivey or Banchero that’s there then I’m willing to part with Keldon, Vassell, or Poeltl.

At the 9th pick, I’m drafting in this order (assuming certain guys are gone):
Eason
Dyson
PBJ
Sochan
Mathurin

Same order obviously if the Spurs pick at 15th.


I like both Jalen Smith and TJ Warren, and one or the other of them could be obtainable. But I'm a little worried that Smith was a "bust" until a contract year. I could see him getting a payday and then goldbricking. And I'm more than a little worried about Warren's injury history. But I get the interest.

It's late, but here's something to think about: in the last 15 years or so, there have only been 4 college players with a 10+ BPM, 60+ TS%, and STL and BLK rates of 3+. Zion, Mikal Bridges, Gary Clark, and Delon Wright. This year there are two - Keegan Murray and Tari Eason. And a month or so before the end of the season, Trevion Williams was there - his TS% and STL dipped just a little below the thresholds, but still worth looking at for a 6'10" guy who will probably be drafted around 40.

For the record, Clark was a senior in a weak AAC, and nobody cared about his college stats. Delon Wright has under-performed for a 20 pick. But I don't think Murray or Eason are likely to under-perform. Both, I think, are likely to be impact guys at the next level.

[PhantomDashCam]

For me the questions start with the current roster.

From RealGM:






1
Lonnie Walker (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Lonnie-Walker/Summary/88916)
SG
6-5
205
3
Miami (FL) (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/Miami-FL/35)
2018 Rnd 1 Pick 18 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2018)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/W)
RFA-2022


3
Keldon Johnson (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Keldon-Johnson/Summary/104395)
SF
6-6
210
2
Kentucky (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258)
2019 Rnd 1 Pick 29 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2019)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/J)
RFA-2023


5
Dejounte Murray (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Dejounte-Murray/Summary/73136)
SG
6-5
180
5
Washington (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Pacific-12-Conference/7/Washington/163)
2016 Rnd 1 Pick 29 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2016)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/M)
UFA-2024


7
Josh Richardson (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Josh-Richardson/Summary/28787)
G
6-5
200
6
Tennessee (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Tennessee/263)
2015 Rnd 2 Pick 10 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2015)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/R)
UFA-2023


11
Joshua Primo (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Joshua-Primo/Summary/134341)
G
6-6
190
0
Alabama (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Alabama/253)
2021 Rnd 1 Pick 12 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2021)
Canada (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/23/Canada/P)
TO-2023; TO-2024; RFA-2025


15
Joe Wieskamp (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Joe-Wieskamp/Summary/89520)
SF
6-6
210
0
Iowa (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/Iowa/98)
2021 Rnd 2 Pick 11 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2021)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/W)
RFA-2022


16
Devontae Cacok (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Devontae-Cacok/Summary/85130)
PF
6-7
240
2
UNC Wilmington (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Colonial-Athletic-Association/15/UNC-Wilmington/122)
2019 NBA Draft, Undrafted (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2019)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/C)
RFA-2022


16
D.J. Stewart, Jr. (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/DJ-Stewart-Jr/Summary/132152)
SG
6-6
205
0
Mississippi State (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Mississippi-State/261)
2021 NBA Draft, Undrafted (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2021)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/S)
RFA-2022


17
Doug McDermott (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Doug-McDermott/Summary/23478)
F
6-8
225
7
Creighton (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-East-Conference/59/Creighton/198)
2014 Rnd 1 Pick 11 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2014)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/M)
UFA-2024


23
Zach Collins (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Zach-Collins/Summary/85659)
C
6-11
250
4
Gonzaga (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/West-Coast-Conference/11/Gonzaga/332)
2017 Rnd 1 Pick 10 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2017)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/C)
UFA-2024


24
Devin Vassell (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Devin-Vassell/Summary/132173)
SG
6-7
195
1
Florida State (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/Florida-State/32)
2020 Rnd 1 Pick 11 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2020)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/V)
TO-2023; RFA-2024


25
Jakob Poeltl (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Jakob-Poeltl/Summary/53231)
C
7-0
240
5
Utah (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Pacific-12-Conference/7/Utah/213)
2016 Rnd 1 Pick 9 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2016)
Austria (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/83/Austria/P)
UFA-2023


28
Robert Woodard II (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Robert-Woodard-II/Summary/81706)
G
6-7
235
1
Mississippi State (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Mississippi-State/261)
2020 Rnd 2 Pick 10 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2020)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/W)
RFA-2022


31
Keita Bates-Diop (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Keita-Bates-Diop/Summary/71803)
SF
6-8
230
3
Ohio State (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/Ohio-State/103)
2018 Rnd 2 Pick 18 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2018)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/B)
UFA-2023


33
Tre Jones (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Tre-Jones/Summary/92235)
PG
6-3
185
1
Duke (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Atlantic-Coast-Conference/1/Duke/31)
2020 Rnd 2 Pick 11 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2020)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/J)
RFA-2023


34
Jock Landale (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Jock-Landale/Summary/81251)
C
6-11
255
0
Saint Mary's (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/West-Coast-Conference/11/Saint-Marys/336)
2018 NBA Draft, Undrafted (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2018)
Australia (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/2/Australia/L)
RFA-2023


35
Romeo Langford (https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Romeo-Langford/Summary/104403)
SG
6-4
215
2
Indiana (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/Indiana/97)
2019 Rnd 1 Pick 14 (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/past_drafts/2019)
United States (https://basketball.realgm.com/info/nationality/1/United-States/L)
RFA-2023



- From what we're hearing from the Spurs press and mainstream media; DJ, Vassell and Keldon are seemingly locked as the Spurs core.

- I expect Woodard, Stewart and Cacok to be gone. Harder to say on Weiskamp.

- Spurs would not only be thinking about the Lonnie situation and likely KJ extension, but the pending FA of Tre Jones, Jason Richardson and Jakob Poeltl in Summer of 2023 too.
If the Spurs do like Dyson Daniels as BPA at #9, they may be willing to move on from Tre, J Rich and Lonnie all before the Trade Deadline of 2023...

- My feeling is that the Spurs would prefer to keep J-Rich over Lonnie, but so would most teams... He may command an offer that is too good to turn down.

- Zach Collins has proven to be a pretty good big man. Think he has earned his backup position. Could he possibly a starter if the injuries are well and truly behind him?

___________________________________________

Of the prospects likely available when spurs pick, I'd rank in order: Dyson D, Duren, Sochan, Blake Wesley and T. Eason as my choices thus far. If the combine confirms a few things, the rankings may change.

[rankingtear]

The Jakob trade is a big one to monitor. Wright want's a 5 out offense it seems but only if someone overpays for Jakob.

[KingKev]

Latest cap estimate is 122mm so we should have ~40mm in cap assuming:

- Collins, Landale and KBD are guaranteed
- Walker is renounced

if we end up using all 4 draft pick that probably eats about 10-12mm.

I don’t see any realistic free agent targets but I’d take a sniff at Bridges and Mo Bamba. There are just too many variables to consider. JRich and Jak are very attractive trade chips. McDermott also an easy contract to move.

My hope is we can get a better return for renting cap space than we did last summer. If you look at how we acquired the Raptors FRP we arguably paid >20mm for that between Thad and Hutchison.

[tbdog]

Walker shot so badly this year. Minutes will a little down too, probably because of that shooting. He gets that 3 point shot over 36%, things will go well for him. I am also impressed with his D this season. Far better than last. I know that sometimes you just have to let go of a project. But I personally believe he can get much better with experience.

I know people here a generally down on Mcdermott. He put up fine numbers, 11ppg at 40% from 3. It was his first season in a new team. We know vets do better in their second year.

I still think John Collins is a target and it might only take Poeltl and picks. Spurs don't have to match salaries.

I am also interested in Okongwu.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

There will probably be a lot of roster manoeuvering and trades and it'll be very interesting what they do with their picks and flexibility. I imagine Wieskamp will go back to a two-way contract for one more year, Cacok, KBD and maybe Landale waived. Not sure they like Langford at all either. Lonnie is an unknown too. Collins and Tre Jones will stay, I imagine, unless traded. Depending on how the draft goes they may have 2 or 3 open roster spots when free agency begins.

With the picks I imagine they'll shoot for the stars with one of them and draft a more ready player with the other, say Sharpe/Duren and Liddell. The third pick I hope they could trade for a 2023 or 24 one but failing that I'm fine with a draft and stash - there are a few very promising players, who'd fit. The 38th pick will be interesting. Normally this is a range of the draft where most players would expect to get a deal and a roster spot, instead of a two-way, and that might be problematic for the Spurs. They could do another draft and stash, or trade for a future 2nd or two, or they could simply draft someone willing to sign a two-way contract 10 or 15 spots higher than they might otherwise be selected.

Another possibility for the picks would be to trade one or two for an established player. I like Toronto's or Boston's pick for Harrison Barnes. Sacramento will probably demand more but it's doable.

As for free agency, if we disregard the bigger names who would be highly unlikely to sign, there are a few players I like a lot. Nic Batum has a $3 mil player option that he'd almost certainly decline. I think he could be had for a MLE type offer or a bit higher for 2 or 3 seasons and would fit very well on the current roster. Covington is similar, probably more expensive. I like Bobby Portis too. Of course trades might alter free agency priorities significantly.

[Big Empty]

Id trade anyone except DJ, and all 3 picks for Smith & Mathurin.

[KingKev]

^ yikes hard pass on a 33yr old Nic Batum, especially on a 3 yr deal.

I hope PATFO shows restraint in handing out multi year contracts so vets. There is no need for that.

[Ocotillo]

Anybody know anything about international free agents they may end up bringing in as a four? Landale came out of the blue last year.

[CGD]

I keep 9 and try to move two or three of 20/23/38/player to get up to 10-14 range. Nab Griffin and Eason.

Get Stix in FA, and another FA big for depth.

Try to trade/move Lonnie, Richardson for value. Dump Romeo.

Extend Keldon

[Dex]

We need to find another Kawhi who doesn't turn out to be a total bitch tbh

[JuneJive]

Moving up in the draft seems almost impossible.
It would take an overpay.

Spurs calling and wanting to move up?
I hang up and pray i nab the guy they wanted with my pick.

[exstatic]

Moving up in the draft seems almost impossible.
It would take an overpay.

Spurs calling and wanting to move up?
I hang up and pray i nab the guy they wanted with my pick.

Yeah, it would probably be better to kick either the Boston or Toronto pick down the road for a future FRP rather than bundle to move up in a draft that is homogenous from 5-25. There are eight teams with no FRP that may want to jump back in.

I wouldn't even mind draft and stashing Jovic for a year with the Toronto pick to keep him off the books AND kicking Boston's pick down the road.

[Ocotillo]

We need to find another Kawhi who doesn't turn out to be a total bitch tbh

It almost feels like he is out of the league now. I almost feel like he is done and will not be any sort of factor going forward.

[stnick2261]

If we hit Lottery, you take the best of who's available.
If we stick to #9, I'd like a PF (Murray or Eason if either are available)
Next pick, I'd like one of the 2 Centers (Williams or Kessler)
3rd Pick, I'd like SF (Jovic)

This would require everybody to drop to our picks since they are ALL higher on mock boards than our draft positions (except for Eason). I know, I'm setting myself up for a disappointing draft night.

I'd save the cap space for summer 2023 so we could test the team this coming season (100% full effort) and see what position/player is most needed from free agency. No veterans this summer; just let the kids play.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

No draftee over 20 or under 6'7

[exstatic]

It almost feels like he is out of the league now. I almost feel like he is done and will not be any sort of factor going forward.

He'll be a regular season factor, but he can only play 75% of the games, and that doesn't work in the playoffs. When he doesn't get that rest, he's much less effective. He'll be 31 before next season starts.

[Ariel]

Regarding the draft, if we land a top 4 pick I'd take Banchero or Ivey with confidence. Otherwise I'm not 100% sold on Jabari Smith or Chet Holmgreen, so I would be willing to consider trading down a few spots, say for the 2 Blazers picks + something and get Sharpe (for potential) + Keegan Murray or Eason (need).

With the Toronto and Boston picks, I'd love to move up to the late lottery (2x1 or adding something else without overpaying) and also land Sochan and/or Jovic. If not Jovic might still be around by the Toronto pick (though I'm less confident in that by the second). And if it's all dried out by then, trade them for future picks.

With the Lakers 2nd there might still be something worthy... maybe Blake Wesley or Koloko are still there (though unlikely), another route would be a draft and stash with Kamagate or Dieng (I'm not sold on Besson), maybe Max Christie or Jabari Walker... or trade it away if not.

As for the offseason, I think Jalen Smith would be a good pickup that makes sense all around: young big with potential out of his team's price range and within ours. I'd try my best to move McDermott, and I'd entertain offers for Josh Richardson and Poeltl ONLY FOR A HIGH RETURN (if not keep them).

Oh... and extend Keldon and DON'T OVERPAY LONNIE!

[Biggems]

Who will be tanking next year for Victor?

[Dex]

It almost feels like he is out of the league now. I almost feel like he is done and will not be any sort of factor going forward.

I do think his best years are behind him. What happened sucked, but glad the Spurs aren't stuck paying him the super-max so he can lick his wounds.

[Ariel]

Who will be tanking next year for Victor?
OKC & Houston for sure. Maybe Orlando or Indiana. I don't think Detroit plans to tank. Blazers and Knicks might blow it all up if this season goes awry.

And the Lakers might still suck, so it'd be fun to see them land the top pick and have NO exercise the right to swap (it's unprotected as far as I read). :lol

[BatManu20]

Spurs have a better chance of dropping from 9 to 10 or 11 than they do moving up into the top-4, so I’m letting that dream scenario go. If we make the playoffs (hopefully not), then we drop out of the lottery entirely, which is worst case scenario of course.

Trading up into the top-4 of the draft ain’t happening. Costs way too much and I don’t think Spurs are willing to part with Keldon or Vassell anyways. The 3 big men at the top of the draft are a pipe dream. Only way I see us trading up is if we make the playoffs. Then I could see us trading 15 + 20 or 21 to move up 3 or 4 spots to get our guy. Again, this is worst case scenario and would really suck. Let’s just hope we don’t make the playoffs and save ourselves the trouble.


Either way, Tari Eason or Jeremy Sochan will likely be our first pick if they’re available. We need a 4 badly and I’m sure they will be our targets. Then BPA with the TOR pick. I really hope we trade the Boston pick for a future FRP. Or even the TOR one if it’s for a minimally-protected FRP. We don’t need 3 Rookies. Jokic is a potential target for a Draft-and-stash, though I’m not as high on him as some are here.

Zach LaVine is gonna get paid this off-season, probably by Chicago. They can’t afford to let him walk, so they’ll prob Max him or something near it. Either way, if he does leave, it won’t be for San Antonio.

Sign Lonnie to a team-friendly deal. If he gets a bigger offer elsewhere, wish him the best and move on. I personally think he returns though.

Please stay away from Fat head. We don’t need to revisit that again. And he doesn’t fit with our new uptempo brand of basketball anyways. Bring back LMA on a cheap deal (lol) if he’s interested or sign another cheap PF rental for a year like PJ Tucker, Paul Milsap, Jeff Green, etc. Then call if an off-season.

[Ariel]

Spurs have a better chance of dropping from 9 to 10 or 11 than they do moving up into the top-4, so I’m letting that dream scenario go.
If they go into the lottery at 9, the Spurs have a 20.2% chance at a top 4 pick. It's a better than 1 in 5 chance. That may make it unlikely, but not a dream by any means.

[BatManu20]

If they go into the lottery at 9, the Spurs have a 20.2% chance at a top 4 pick. It's a better than 1 in 5 chance. That may make it unlikely, but not a dream by any means.

Yea not impossible but don’t hold your breath. Much more likely to pick 9-15.

[mo7888]

I don't like looking at things in a vacuum. Instead of just looking at who you want in the Top 4, or with the Spurs' own 9th pick, try and look at the whole offseason. The Spurs have 3 FRP, and loads of cap space to go after a top FA, or facilitate deals. But if they go small-ish in the draft, they would almost have to be thinking about using that cap space for a bigger PF or a more dynamic C. How would you coordinate all that? I've got a few pretty specific questions to start:

I assume most people agree that if the Spurs hit the lottery, they would pick one of the 3 PF's at the top? But what if the Spurs got the 4th pick from the lottery, and Banchero, Holmgren, and Smith are gone? Would you take the 6'4" Ivey, or the 6'8" Keegan Murray?

What if they don't hit the lottery? I don't think they could trade up enough to get one of the Big 3 without including a player. I assume DJ and Keldon are off the table. So would you trade Vassell and the 9th pick to get up to one of those guys? Would you trade Vassell and the 9th, plus Toronto's 21 pick to get up to one of those 3 PF's at the top?

Okay, so let's just assume the Spurs stick with their own 9th pick. Another wing, if that's BPA? Or do they swing for a more dynamic big man? The mocks have been calling for the Spurs to draft Duren for months. Would you take Duren, the C, or Tari Eason the PF, or do you really love Sochan at the 9th pick?

Finally, would you try to go after a free agent big man with the cap space? I don't see anyone outside of DeAndre Ayton, and he's restricted, plus that still leaves the 4 position small. Ayton did decide to test free agency, rather than taking an extension from Phoenix. Would you take a throw at him, knowing that it would take something approaching a max deal - even if you used a player or future pick to sweeten a sign and trade?

Excellent thread..

Take Ivey over Keegan..

I would trade 9 + 21 + (any player except DJ) for a top 3 pick in this draft. More controversial, I'd trade DJ by himself for a top 3 pick in this draft.

If I stick at 9 I'd take the BPA. Of the 3 players you mentioned I'd have Duren first then Eason...I'm not a fan of Sochan.

I don't see any FA big men on the market that really move the needle. Maybe Jalen Smith if he came cheap but, I would probably get outbid because I wouldn't pay much. That leaves two other options- 1) packaging players for a trade that brings in a difference maker knowing I'd just have to be opportunistic if it happens to come up or 2) use cap space and a contract (McDermott? ) to bring in a bad contract along with assets.

I also don't see us drafting 4 players. As exstatic likes to point out, kicking one pick down the road could be a good route here. I'd say kicking two down the road makes sense IF a team will give us a future 1st for our laker pick.

[Mr. Body]

1. Draft two good prospects who will be on the roster next year. With the lottery pick, there will be at least a couple good PF prospects available (Eason, Sochan). Try to move up with the Toronto/Boston picks or use one, trade off the other, same with the Lakers SRP. With the T/B pick, keep going for size, probably a center. I wouldn't be opposed to looking for a bargain with the later two picks (Boston, LA), someone like Trayce Jackson-Davis. There's a problem with too many players, though, and I'm not sure the team wants to have three rookies especially with Primo and Wieskamp still needing development.

2. Don't splurge on free agents. The team is trying to stay lean and flexible with its money. Buying a guy like Ayton or trying to get John Collins doesn't make much sense. In the first case, you already get that sort of production for much cheaper in Poeltl. In the second, well, Collins is too expensive, his fit is completely unclear, and this franchise just doesn't gamble lke that. You fail, it kills everything.

3. Really think about the cases of McDermott, Walker, and Richardson. McDermott should probably be moved, especially if Richardson stays. And I want to keep Richardson. Walker is a big question mark, but I would sign him to a reasonable contract. He's improving and a reasonable contract can be moved if he no longer fits. My guess is McDermott is gone, Langford is gone. KBD is a question mark but he's a good dude and neutral on the floor. Keep him if there's room.

4. Use the cap space to buy draft assets. They did pretty well last summer absorbing bad-ish contracts for some draft capital. They should keep it rolling both by moving any draft picks they don't want this year and helping teams pare down bad contracts and/or facilitate larger trades.

Overall: This team is pretty competitive. We're seeing players push into their next levels. The roster is much more balanced than it was at the beginning of the year. It's much leaner, meaning there is less dead weight. The biggest team needs are 1) size and capability at PF, and 2) ability to close out games. The draft won't fix the PF issue straightaway, but it might help. Otherwise it'll be PF by committee with Landale hopefully getting comfortable there in certain sets. The ability to close out games depends on growth of what's already there.

[Uriel]

Just draft Banchero and call it an offseason.

[exstatic]

Yea not impossible but don’t hold your breath. Much more likely to pick 9-15.

We literally cannot pick 14th. Five teams cannot jump over us into only four spots. Picking 13th is listed as >0.0, meaning a tiny fraction of a percent. Picking 12th is 1/10th of a percent. For someone who can't see us jumping into the top four with 20% odds, you're sure entertaining all of the the fraction percentage doomsday scenarios. Here's the 411:

9th 50.7%
10th 25.9%
somewhere in the top 4 20.2%
11th 3%
12,13 0.2%

Houston and Orlando's highest odds are pick #5. Detroit and OKC's highest odds are for pick #6.

[KingKev]

It almost feels like he is out of the league now. I almost feel like he is done and will not be any sort of factor going forward.

Wishful thinking. He’ll be a top 10 player next year.

[bluebellmaniac]

We literally cannot pick 14th. Five teams cannot jump over us into only four spots. Picking 13th is listed as >0.0, meaning a tiny fraction of a percent. Picking 12th is 1/10th of a percent. For someone who can't see us jumping into the top four with 20% odds, you're sure entertaining all of the the fraction percentage doomsday scenarios. Here's the 411:

9th 50.7%
10th 25.9%
somewhere in the top 4 20.2%
11th 3%
12,13 0.2%

Houston and Orlando's highest odds are pick #5. Detroit and OKC's highest odds are for pick #6.

+1

[ZeusWillJudge]

Spurs have a better chance of dropping from 9 to 10 or 11 than they do moving up into the top-4, so I’m letting that dream scenario go. If we make the playoffs (hopefully not), then we drop out of the lottery entirely, which is worst case scenario of course.


So the only way the Spurs move down in the draft is if one of the teams from 10-14 moves up to the Top 4 with a lottery pick. If anyone from 5-8 moves up, the Spurs are unaffected. The only way the Spurs could get moved back two slots to 11 would be if two teams from 10-14 got Top 4 picks through the lottery.

My question about trading up to the Top 4 was mostly to see how many people think Vassell is off the table for other trades. Mo7888 actually said that he would put Murray up for grabs to get one of those PF's at the top. I don't think even that could really happen, but it does say that nobody on this team is off the table. But if it was going to happen, a young guy who puts up triple-doubles and has been on an All Star team (plus picks) would be needed. Vassell wouldn't get it done.

It looks like most people here don't beleive in Keegan Murray. I think the Spurs actually might be able to put together a deal to get from 9 to 5 and take him. I think he would be a good addition to this team, but I don't think he's a guy you build a team around, so trading a player to get him would probably be self-defeating. But I still think he's going to be a good use of the #5 pick for whoever lands there.

I agree that the Spurs will probably wind up renting out cap space for future pick(s). The problem with that is that teams who do that usually wind up with lottery-protected picks that wind up somewhere around where the Raptor/Celtic picks are. Those are still first round picks, but we have two of those this season, and the chance of getting a franchise player with one of them is less than the chance of getting the lucky ping pong ball.

Now some of you are seeing why I've been so twisted about the Spurs not playing young guys and dropping just 3-4 more games. It wasn't just about a possible Top-4 pick. It's that there are three top tier, potentially-franchise players that would perfectly complement this roster, without counterfeiting what they already have. The Spurs aren't likely to get this close to that kind of opportunity again.

[Ariel]

I would take Keegan Murray at 9 (don't think he'll be there though), but I wouldn't give up significant assets to trade up for him as I don't see him as a franchise player. Would rather take Eason or Sohan at 9 than that. I might do it for Banchero or Ivey though.

[stnick2261]

It looks like most people here don't beleive in Keegan Murray. I think the Spurs actually might be able to put together a deal to get from 9 to 5 and take him. I think he would be a good addition to this team, but I don't think he's a guy you build a team around, so trading a player to get him would probably be self-defeating. But I still think he's going to be a good use of the #5 pick for whoever lands there.

I'm not a draft expert... I would LOVE Keegan Murray. I just don't know if the difference between Murray and Tari Eason justifies what you would have to give up to draft that much higher.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Bottom line, my focus would be on landing a stretch 4 with at least 6'8" height at the top of the draft. Pinning down that single need would give the Spurs tremendous flexibility with their cap space and remaining picks.

If the Spurs stand pat and pick 9th? Looking at who is likely to be on the board, I would have to take Eason. He's got serious potential to make an impact on both ends that could turn some close L's into W's. I don't want to see the Spurs pick anyone who isn't at least somewhat of a 3P threat, so Duren wouldn't make my list unless they also got a stretch 4. Dyson Daniels has a lot of plusses, but he's 6'6" and a 25% 3P shooter. And I just think Sochan is more of a placeholder than a possible standout.

There are a couple of guys that I might consider trading both the Rap's and Celt's picks to get to in the late teens - Malaki Branham and EJ Liddell. The Spurs aren't going to want to keep 3 rookies anyway, and those guys would be solid additions to the bench.


No way to move two for one with the Rap's and Celt's picks? I would make sure to get one of Jabari Walker, or Trevion Williams (check out Williams' advanced stats before booing), or Walker Kessler (mostly for interior defense and to have a big body when needed). All three of those are likely to be available with the Celtic's pick.

To me, McBuckets is a tall Bryn Forbes - positionless, designated 3P shooter. So getting a legit backup 4 seems like a good thing:


I know I go on about Jabari Walker a lot, and pretty much nobody here picks up on it. He's a solid 6'9" and strong. He lost his 3P stroke in the first half of the season, but he got it together in the second half. For the last month and a half, he shot right at 50% from the arc. He's a legit 3P threat, and he's strong on the boards. I'm not saying he should be in the lottery, but he's going to be one of the bargains of this draft, and he fits the Spurs' needs.


And Patrick Baldwin jr. just got caught up in a bad situation. He had a chance to go to Duke and play for Coach K. He would have had a much better season, I'm convinced of it. If his extra firepower had given Duke that few extra points to put Duke over the top for a title? People would be talking about him as a lottery pick for sure. He's 6'9", some claim 6'10", and he's said that he wants to play the 4.

[exstatic]

So the only way the Spurs move down in the draft is if one of the teams from 10-14 moves up to the Top 4 with a lottery pick. If anyone from 5-8 moves up, the Spurs are unaffected. The only way the Spurs could get moved back two slots to 11 would be if two teams from 10-14 got Top 4 picks through the lottery.

My question about trading up to the Top 4 was mostly to see how many people think Vassell is off the table for other trades. Mo7888 actually said that he would put Murray up for grabs to get one of those PF's at the top. I don't think even that could really happen, but it does say that nobody on this team is off the table. But if it was going to happen, a young guy who puts up triple-doubles and has been on an All Star team (plus picks) would be needed. Vassell wouldn't get it done.

It looks like most people here don't beleive in Keegan Murray. I think the Spurs actually might be able to put together a deal to get from 9 to 5 and take him. I think he would be a good addition to this team, but I don't think he's a guy you build a team around, so trading a player to get him would probably be self-defeating. But I still think he's going to be a good use of the #5 pick for whoever lands there.

I agree that the Spurs will probably wind up renting out cap space for future pick(s). The problem with that is that teams who do that usually wind up with lottery-protected picks that wind up somewhere around where the Raptor/Celtic picks are. Those are still first round picks, but we have two of those this season, and the chance of getting a franchise player with one of them is less than the chance of getting the lucky ping pong ball.

Now some of you are seeing why I've been so twisted about the Spurs not playing young guys and dropping just 3-4 more games. It wasn't just about a possible Top-4 pick. It's that there are three top tier, potentially-franchise players that would perfectly complement this roster, without counterfeiting what they already have. The Spurs aren't likely to get this close to that kind of opportunity again.

2028 could happen.

[JPB]

I would take Keegan Murray at 9 (don't think he'll be there though), but I wouldn't give up significant assets to trade up for him as I don't see him as a franchise player. Would rather take Eason or Sohan at 9 than that. I might do it for Banchero or Ivey though.

This. You know what you have, you're never exactly sure what you get with rookies. Sacrifying quality players and picks for a star is one thing, for a college player that's another, unless you'd get a Lebron but no none would deal to miss out on a Lebron.

[Silverheart80]

I don't like looking at things in a vacuum. Instead of just looking at who you want in the Top 4, or with the Spurs' own 9th pick, try and look at the whole offseason. The Spurs have 3 FRP, and loads of cap space to go after a top FA, or facilitate deals. But if they go small-ish in the draft, they would almost have to be thinking about using that cap space for a bigger PF or a more dynamic C. How would you coordinate all that? I've got a few pretty specific questions to start:

I assume most people agree that if the Spurs hit the lottery, they would pick one of the 3 PF's at the top? But what if the Spurs got the 4th pick from the lottery, and Banchero, Holmgren, and Smith are gone? Would you take the 6'4" Ivey, or the 6'8" Keegan Murray?

What if they don't hit the lottery? I don't think they could trade up enough to get one of the Big 3 without including a player. I assume DJ and Keldon are off the table. So would you trade Vassell and the 9th pick to get up to one of those guys? Would you trade Vassell and the 9th, plus Toronto's 21 pick to get up to one of those 3 PF's at the top?

Okay, so let's just assume the Spurs stick with their own 9th pick. Another wing, if that's BPA? Or do they swing for a more dynamic big man? The mocks have been calling for the Spurs to draft Duren for months. Would you take Duren, the C, or Tari Eason the PF, or do you really love Sochan at the 9th pick?

Finally, would you try to go after a free agent big man with the cap space? I don't see anyone outside of DeAndre Ayton, and he's restricted, plus that still leaves the 4 position small. Ayton did decide to test free agency, rather than taking an extension from Phoenix. Would you take a throw at him, knowing that it would take something approaching a max deal - even if you used a player or future pick to sweeten a sign and trade?

1) Jaden Ivey over Keegan Murray. Murray fills a vacancy in the short term. Ivey will be a more potent pro.

2) No trades to move up. This year's top PFs don't justify the investment.

3) If the Spurs hold on to the 9th -- it's Sochan. His defensive switchability on all five positions is too good to pass up. At age 18, his timeline matches the Josh Primo timeline. (Remember this one from Brian Wright last summer? "Josh's development timeline will be Josh's development timeline. There's no pressure from us." More on that later.) Duren is younger, but again Sochan's switchability and IQ fits best.

4) No, I wouldn't go for a free agent big man with this summer's cap space. If I look at the moves the Spurs have made in the last year -- drafting another 6'5" guard in spite of redundancy, not fixing the problem at PF, seemingly not caring about where they slot in the lottery chase -- I would guess they have their eyes on 2023 rather than 2022.

Winning rings requires at least one, if not two players, that create relentless mismatches. Current Spurs roster has no one even close to that. Nice role players, but none of these current guys is going to turn into a dominant top-10-level mismatch on both ends, night after night. Not happening. I don't see Holmgren, Smith, or Banchero as being MVP-level game changers either. So no reason to trade up.

But I do think there's at least one in the 2023 draft and that's Victor Wembanyama. Spurs won't outright tank for a shot at him, but I think they stand pat this summer and 'kick the can' to next year's draft as much as possible. My guess is they move two picks out of this year's first round to hopefully acquire picks for next year's first round.

That comment from Wright last summer seemed odd at the time, but looking at what the Spurs have done -- I don't think they're focused on trying to win a championship with DJ, Keldon, and Devin as a 'Big Three'. I think they're biding their time 'til they have a shot at a generational player. I think Wembanyama has a real shot to be the next one and it doesn't hurt that he plays for the same French pro team that Tony Parker owns (although that means nothing come draft time….still cool though). Meanwhile, that would explain why the Spurs feel 'no pressure'. So they keep developing a beta lineup of role players. No need to rock that boat this summer. Hopefully sooner rather than later, they'll catch a generational big fish to match the much-younger timeline Wright seems to be eyeing.

[Dejounte]

Unless Murray suffers a major injury next season, I don’t see how the Spurs could be a worse team next year. Murray didn’t start off playing at a star-level this season, Keldon played much better at the end of the season, and Vassell looks like he’s figuring it out. Tre is slowly looking like he can run the backup point, Collins didn’t show up until the last quarter of this season, JRich being a great role player. So many indicators of a much improved team next year. Very small chance they’ll have a shot at a top 10 pick next year.

[Dverde]

Anyone in here like James Wiseman on the Spurs? Stock at an all time low, GSW might selling with his contract getting bigger next year.

[mo7888]

Anyone in here like James Wiseman on the Spurs? Stock at an all time low, GSW might selling with his contract getting bigger next year.

As with most things the question is, what's the price? How do you define them selling low?

[Mr. Body]

Anyone in here like James Wiseman on the Spurs? Stock at an all time low, GSW might selling with his contract getting bigger next year.

Injury prone and not ready to even play college ball. High salary due to where he was drafted, so expensive to extend him. No thanks.

[exstatic]

Injury prone and not ready to even play college ball. High salary due to where he was drafted, so expensive to extend him. No thanks.

He's had literally one injury, a meniscus tear. He put up 11.5/5.8 as a rookie in 21.4 minutes, essentially coming straight out of HS. I don't think they're going to trade him, but I'd be in line if they were.

[KingKev]

He'll be a regular season factor, but he can only play 75% of the games, and that doesn't work in the playoffs. When he doesn't get that rest, he's much less effective. He'll be 31 before next season starts.

Did you watch the playoff game he went down with his last injury? Get him to the playoffs healthy, in rhythm and he is a top 10 player of all time.

[KingKev]

Injury prone and not ready to even play college ball. High salary due to where he was drafted, so expensive to extend him. No thanks.

The GS Warriors are astute in EVERYTHING. If Wiseman on the block which he assuredly is not i’m staying the fk away.

[Ariel]

As with most things the question is, what's the price? How do you define them selling low?
Exactly. I actually like Wiseman and would be willing to gamble on him, if the price is right... but that's a HUGE if.
I personally think GS will hold on to him, they seemed content with his progress until his season was derailed by injuries.
7 footers with his athleticism don't grow on trees. He's also skilled. I just wonder if his injury history is an indication of something worse that's bound to happen time and again.

[Silverheart80]

Unless Murray suffers a major injury next season, I don’t see how the Spurs could be a worse team next year. Murray didn’t start off playing at a star-level this season, Keldon played much better at the end of the season, and Vassell looks like he’s figuring it out. Tre is slowly looking like he can run the backup point, Collins didn’t show up until the last quarter of this season, JRich being a great role player. So many indicators of a much improved team next year. Very small chance they’ll have a shot at a top 10 pick next year.

Agree with everything but the last two sentences. Spurs won't be a worse team next year, but I do think they've got a solid shot at again being a lottery team, with the current lineup. They'll keep getting valuable minutes and building 'culture'. But barring injury, I don't see Phoenix, Memphis, Golden State, Dallas, Utah, or Denver being worse than the Spurs. All have mismatches the current roster can't answer. Minnesota and LAC will continue having mismatches as well.

Spurs will again be gritty and scrappy, but because they have no one that creates mismatches night after night, they'll keep losing close games. I give us much more than a small chance at a top-10 pick next year.

[Mr. Body]

He's had literally one injury, a meniscus tear. He put up 11.5/5.8 as a rookie in 21.4 minutes, essentially coming straight out of HS. I don't think they're going to trade him, but I'd be in line if they were.

If you actually watch him play, he's clueless in a lot of actual basketball things. His advanced stats are pretty terrible, too. You people are as bad as that guy who wants to trade our lottery pick for Kai Jones.

[exstatic]

Did you watch the playoff game he went down with his last injury? Get him to the playoffs healthy, in rhythm and he is a top 10 player of all time.

He'll never be top 10 of all time, because he won't play enough games. He'll be 31 when next season starts, and he's barely above 11,000 points.

[CGD]

The GS astute in EVERYTHING. If Wiseman on the block which he assuredly is not i’m stying the fk away.

I agree with this mostly.

The thing that may change their analysis though is the combo of a poor showing in these playoffs, an assessment that Klay won’t ever return to full form along with Green declining, and a mega tax bill to go along with that. Does this then hasten the urgency for them to use Wiseman to get a win now piece or two this off season?

I suspect their big three is of that mindset given rumors of the same last year.

[CGD]

Anyone in here like James Wiseman on the Spurs? Stock at an all time low, GSW might selling with his contract getting bigger next year.

If GSW were serious about moving him, I’d think long and hard about a Jak + BOS pick for him.

[Dverde]

I don’t think Wiseman fits well with GSW’s roster. I still like his potential, but I don’t see his fit unless the Spurs plan on moving Poodle. I have this feeling GSW are going to be shopping a Wiseman and Wiggins package to a lot of teams.

[ZeusWillJudge]

1) Jaden Ivey over Keegan Murray. Murray fills a vacancy in the short term. Ivey will be a more potent pro.

2) No trades to move up. This year's top PFs don't justify the investment.

3) If the Spurs hold on to the 9th -- it's Sochan. His defensive switchability on all five positions is too good to pass up. At age 18, his timeline matches the Josh Primo timeline. (Remember this one from Brian Wright last summer? "Josh's development timeline will be Josh's development timeline. There's no pressure from us." More on that later.) Duren is younger, but again Sochan's switchability and IQ fits best.

4) No, I wouldn't go for a free agent big man with this summer's cap space. If I look at the moves the Spurs have made in the last year -- drafting another 6'5" guard in spite of redundancy, not fixing the problem at PF, seemingly not caring about where they slot in the lottery chase -- I would guess they have their eyes on 2023 rather than 2022.

Winning rings requires at least one, if not two players, that create relentless mismatches. Current Spurs roster has no one even close to that. Nice role players, but none of these current guys is going to turn into a dominant top-10-level mismatch on both ends, night after night. Not happening. I don't see Holmgren, Smith, or Banchero as being MVP-level game changers either. So no reason to trade up.

But I do think there's at least one in the 2023 draft and that's Victor Wembanyama. Spurs won't outright tank for a shot at him, but I think they stand pat this summer and 'kick the can' to next year's draft as much as possible. My guess is they move two picks out of this year's first round to hopefully acquire picks for next year's first round.

That comment from Wright last summer seemed odd at the time, but looking at what the Spurs have done -- I don't think they're focused on trying to win a championship with DJ, Keldon, and Devin as a 'Big Three'. I think they're biding their time 'til they have a shot at a generational player. I think Wembanyama has a real shot to be the next one and it doesn't hurt that he plays for the same French pro team that Tony Parker owns (although that means nothing come draft time….still cool though). Meanwhile, that would explain why the Spurs feel 'no pressure'. So they keep developing a beta lineup of role players. No need to rock that boat this summer. Hopefully sooner rather than later, they'll catch a generational big fish to match the much-younger timeline Wright seems to be eyeing.


Okay, so you said what a lot of people are saying - Ivey over Keegan Murray. I'm curious... what do you think that Ivey does that much better than DJ? More to the point, if you select Ivey and keep Murray, how do you balance the rest of this roster? I'm not sniping at you, just wondering where you see them going from there?

The other thing is that you seem to be thinking (so do a lot of other people) that the Spurs find a diamond in a pile of gravel. Basically find a franchise player somewhere later in a future draft. It happens. I mean, there's Jokic at 41. But even Giannis took a 15 pick to snag. It just about depresses me to think about being mediocre long enough to find one of those at 15. To me, this is a critical draft for my own personal satisfaction and mental health.

I'm not going to get into true "generational" talent, because getting that requires stars aligning, one way or another. You can't have a half-dozen generational players running around at the same time, or they're not really generational players. But if you're talking about top-tier players that can truly dominate and put a team on their shoulders, what are you looking for? I mean you, personally?

[Mr. Body]

I don’t think Wiseman fits well with GSW’s roster. I still like his potential, but I don’t see his fit unless the Spurs plan on moving Poodle. I have this feeling GSW are going to be shopping a Wiseman and Wiggins package to a lot of teams.

Too bad for the Warriors that Wiseman is a near bust so far. They get wrecked by teams with any size.

[Gagnrath]

No draftee over 20 or under 6'7

There isn't any good reason to keep the draftees under 20. Bigs are oftentimes a couple of years slower developing. There are also good reasons for both Euro and college players to stay a couple of years developing a post game and physically. Especially if they are Fringe first round picks. You aren't going to be talking about franchise players in those catagories but a guy who can become a solid starter or rotation player is definitely a possibility. The Aaron Barnes of the world is a good example, of a recent player in that category. Choosing to be a four year college player shouldn't hurt someone bdraft stock wise if they could have chosen to come out earlier. College players also can get paid now so it makes more sense for them to stay if they are still developing and happy instead of 1 and done.

[scott]

It makes perfect sense to rent out cap space for assets, kick our TOR and BOS picks down the road, etc... but I do fear it just leads to a never ending "yeah we suck now but the future is bright!" scenario. We made some pretty decent moves to acquire FRPs this year... and now we don't know what to do with them. What's going to be different about the future?

I get the strategy of hoping the ping pong balls fall our way, like they did in 87, 89 and 97 (wow, the draft odds were f'd up in the 80s, lol), but is that really what we should be counting on? Seems like OKC, Hou, Det, and Orl have all been playing this game for years and have made zero progress to being a better team.

This is why I'd like to see us use the picks to acquire an established PF who can come up in and play now. It is unlikely we are going to be a worse team next year, but being only a few games better doesn't move the needle. Why not try to be 10+ games better with a smart PF addition that can be acquired with, say, the 20th pick and Josh Richardson (or some other combo of assets).

I love the idea of landing a blue chip lotto pick... but are we just holding our breath and waiting for superman at this point?

[Silverheart80]

Okay, so you said what a lot of people are saying - Ivey over Keegan Murray. I'm curious... what do you think that Ivey does that much better than DJ? More to the point, if you select Ivey and keep Murray, how do you balance the rest of this roster? I'm not sniping at you, just wondering where you see them going from there?

The other thing is that you seem to be thinking (so do a lot of other people) that the Spurs find a diamond in a pile of gravel. Basically find a franchise player somewhere later in a future draft. It happens. I mean, there's Jokic at 41. But even Giannis took a 15 pick to snag. It just about depresses me to think about being mediocre long enough to find one of those at 15. To me, this is a critical draft for my own personal satisfaction and mental health.

I'm not going to get into true "generational" talent, because getting that requires stars aligning, one way or another. You can't have a half-dozen generational players running around at the same time, or they're not really generational players. But if you're talking about top-tier players that can truly dominate and put a team on their shoulders, what are you looking for? I mean you, personally?

1) Good question. Wright said Primo is on his own timeline and there's no pressure. Thus, it's very possible they're not worried about how he jells with Dejounte, Devin, or Keldon. They realize one or more of those guys may not be here by the time Primo matures, if he does. Meanwhile, right now is DJ/Devin/Keldon's time as the featured players with this team. So in the event of a lottery miracle that scores Jaden Ivey, I suspect PATFO would follow the same logic as with Primo. The Primo pick made no sense to me last year, considering we needed help at PF so badly and already had so many guards. However, PATFO thought Primo was BPA. So I'm thinking the Spurs might be building developmental waves and not invested in 'win rings NOW with DJ, Devin, and Keldon'. So then the question of how Ivey plays with Primo is more vital than how Ivey plays with DJ. I'd love for us to find a way to win a ring with Dejounte, Devin, and Keldon, but the timelines may not work out that way.

2) I was actually saying the opposite of finding a diamond in a pile of gravel. It's unlikely to happen, so I'm hoping more for the swing for a generational talent to unlock the potential of the players we have at a given moment. Spurs will keep building a team of role players until that time. So when does that generational talent come along? Whether it happens by draft, trade, or free agency, it's hard to say, but it's plain to see that it's not happening this summer. I'm with you 100% in that I'm a lifelong Spurs fan who wants to contend for rings every single year, but I also know that we had 15+ years of guys who created mismatches in Tony, Tim, and Manu. Add Kawhi in there for a short time. No current Spur is going to magically turn into a monster mismatch. They are what they are.

3) When I say generational, I mean guys who generationally change their team, creating a mismatch that opponents cannot counter for four quarters because the player either takes over or creates easy opportunities for others. So right now -- Doncic does that for Dallas, Morant for the Grizzlies, Booker/Paul for Phoenix, Curry for GSW, Giannis for the Bucks, Jokic for Denver, Durant for Brooklyn, you get the idea. They do it year after year after year for a given team. The Spurs currently don't have a guy who can take over a game night after night, year after year. That's what I mean by generational. That's what all of us want for the Spurs, but none of the current players are that caliber of mismatch. It's safe to say none of the current ones are going to become one. That said -- I'm not a huge fan of Primo so far, but it's possibly too early to include him in that. Meanwhile, the Spurs will bide their time 'til one comes along and keep developing waves of solid role players. It's not a bad strategy. It's just not a 'win now' strategy. :)

[baseline bum]

If GSW were serious about moving him, I’d think long and hard about a Jak + BOS pick for him.

That's an overpay. Wiseman is more likely to be a bust than a star at this point and I'm starting to lean on the side of not even wanting to trade Jakob alone for him since he never returned to play this season. Could very well end up the next Stromile Swift, Derrick Williams, or Evan Turner. No way in hell I'm including a first round pick if I'm taking all the risk while giving the Warriors an elite defender and starting caliber center. I think I'd ask them to include the pick.

[CGD]

^ we’re just people shooting the breeze for fun in here. I have to think the pros have a plan, especially, as you say, after a good year of shrewd maneuvers etc.

What I do think we’re owed as fans is a sense of the theory of the case/strategy for progress. I think we have an early sense that it appear to be a “develop within + lure attractive to FA with our young pieces” model, but will that be sustainable in 3 years where we too out at the 6th seed?

[CGD]

That's an overpay. Wiseman is more likely to be a bust than a star at this point and I'm starting to lean on the side of not even wanting to trade Jakob alone for him since he never returned to play this season. Could very well end up the next Stromile Swift, Derrick Williams, or Evan Turner. No way in hell I'm including a first round pick if I'm taking all the risk while giving the Warriors an elite defender and starting caliber center. I think I'd ask them to include the pick.

That’s what makes Weisman so polarizing. I can totally see your rationale too.

It all depends on whether spurs want to keep Jak beyond this year at the price he’ll command, which makes me uneasy.

[Degoat]

Think I’d rather draft Jalen Duren then trade for Wiseman tbh

[BackHome]

That’s what makes Weisman so polarizing. I can totally see your rationale too.

It all depends on whether spurs want to keep Jak beyond this year at the price he’ll command, which makes me uneasy.

I would rather draft Keller Williams, or Mark Williams then trade Jak for Wiseman

[Dverde]

That’s what makes Weisman so polarizing. I can totally see your rationale too.

It all depends on whether spurs want to keep Jak beyond this year at the price he’ll command, which makes me uneasy.

You assume Jak would re-sign here. i could see him leaving when his contract is up especially if there is more money elsewhere. Having Wiseman on a rookie deal would give the Spurs a great advantage on retaining him on his next contract.

[CGD]

You assume Jak would re-sign here. i could see him leaving when his contract is up especially if there is more money elsewhere. Having Wiseman on a rookie deal would give the Spurs a great advantage on retaining him on his next contract.

That’s actually my point. Jak is expiring and his next deal may be larger than the team would want to pay. If you are determined not to give him that big deal, the team has got to move him this summer for value. Much harder after that.

[PhantomDashCam]

Think I’d rather draft Jalen Duren then trade for Wiseman tbh


Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.

From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...

2022 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2022/)-23
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
21
$9,603,360
-
-
-
$9,603,360
$9,603,360($27,500,400)
$9,603,360


2023 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2023/)-24
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
22
$12,119,440
-
-
-
$12,119,440
$12,119,440($39,619,840)



2024 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2024/)-25
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
23
QO: $15,815,870
-
-
-
Hold: $30,298,601

[CGD]

^ what a life man. Dude will flame out and have collected 20M before he’s 22 years.

[Dejounte]

Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.

From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...

2022 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2022/)-23
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
21
$9,603,360
-
-
-
$9,603,360
$9,603,360($27,500,400)
$9,603,360


2023 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2023/)-24
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
22
$12,119,440
-
-
-
$12,119,440
$12,119,440($39,619,840)



2024 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2024/)-25
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
23
QO: $15,815,870
-
-
-
Hold: $30,298,601





There was a time a couple posters would have given their left nut for the Spurs to draft Wiseman…

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Thomas_Tank_Engine_1.JPG

[Dejounte]

Wiseman is the perfect example why it would be ludicrous to trade DJ for a top 3 pick in this draft.

[Mr. Body]

Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.

From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...

2022 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2022/)-23
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
21
$9,603,360
-
-
-
$9,603,360
$9,603,360($27,500,400)
$9,603,360


2023 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2023/)-24
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
22
$12,119,440
-
-
-
$12,119,440
$12,119,440($39,619,840)



2024 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2024/)-25
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
23
QO: $15,815,870
-
-
-
Hold: $30,298,601




This has been my case for a while. Those top picks are killer if you whiff on them.

[Mr. Body]

Top picks are killer, anyway, unless they're truly stars. Detroit, Orlando, Houston are all back at the top of the lottery, just as shitty as they were last year, so they're each adding another salary drag onto their roster. I don't know if anyone at the top is a franchise guy, but once that extension hits, wowza. A big, but understated, reason why shitty franchises remain shitty.

[mo7888]

Wiseman is the perfect example why it would be ludicrous to trade DJ for a top 3 pick in this draft.

I'm gonna disagree...that's like saying Jason Tatum is an example why we should trade DJ for a top 3 pick in the draft. The decision isn't made in a vacuum nor is it a sure boom or bust. It's a gamble and you're betting on our talent evaluation skills.

I think it has as much to do with how our FO sees our timeline for competing.. DJ will get expensive in a couple years so are we going all-in in that time to put high end players around him? Or do they take a longer look and try to get players on Primo's and a high pick this year's timeline? I don't have the answer but, their viewpoint will determine if trading DJ is worth the gamble.

My guess is we make trades and build around DJ (and that's probably my preference) but I could see the argument for going the trade up route as well.

[baseline bum]

That’s actually my point. Jak is expiring and his next deal may be larger than the team would want to pay. If you are determined not to give him that big deal, the team has got to move him this summer for value. Much harder after that.

I'm not at all opposed to moving Jak since he's more a win now kind of piece while the Spurs are far from being a team ready to compete at a high level, but if I'm trading a productive big who is a known asset in the prime of his career and on a wildly cap friendly contract for a guy who is so far a bust two years into his career, I need another asset coming back too. Wiseman is super high risk after two lost years. I think the Spurs can find a better deal than Poetl for Wiseman straight up, especially since they could also throw Lonnie Walker in as a sign and trade this summer.

[baseline bum]

I'm gonna disagree...that's like saying Jason Tatum is an example why we should trade DJ for a top 3 pick in the draft. The decision isn't made in a vacuum nor is it a sure boom or bust. It's a gamble and you're betting on our talent evaluation skills.

I think it has as much to do with how our FO sees our timeline for competing.. DJ will get expensive in a couple years so are we going all-in in that time to put high end players around him? Or do they take a longer look and try to get players on Primo's and a high pick this year's timeline? I don't have the answer but, their viewpoint will determine if trading DJ is worth the gamble.

My guess is we make trades and build around DJ (and that's probably my preference) but I could see the argument for going the trade up route as well.

Although it scares the shit out of me that the Spurs were supposedly very high on Josh Jackson and then how in love with Derrick Favors RC was when he was drafted. Ugh Favors might actually be one of the better cases for how Wiseman develops too. I think I'd hate to give Murray up for a pick.

[Dverde]

Plenty big men took four plus years to develop into All-Stars. Many thought Ayton was going to be a bust and he’s about to get a max contract. Story isn’t written yet on Wiseman. I think he needs a young team like the Spurs to develop around not The Warriors. The situation reminds me of Darko Milicic (not that I’m saying he was good) where a #2 pick goes to a loaded team and can’t seem to find the right role on the team.

[Dejounte]

I'm gonna disagree...that's like saying Jason Tatum is an example why we should trade DJ for a top 3 pick in the draft. The decision isn't made in a vacuum nor is it a sure boom or bust. It's a gamble and you're betting on our talent evaluation skills.

I think it has as much to do with how our FO sees our timeline for competing.. DJ will get expensive in a couple years so are we going all-in in that time to put high end players around him? Or do they take a longer look and try to get players on Primo's and a high pick this year's timeline? I don't have the answer but, their viewpoint will determine if trading DJ is worth the gamble.

My guess is we make trades and build around DJ (and that's probably my preference) but I could see the argument for going the trade up route as well.

What kind of gamble is it? We know it isn’t 50% chance Wiseman vs 50% Tatum. More like 95% Wiseman vs 5% Tatum. We have to consider these odds and what is being given up, because I’m not so sure people understand what Murray means to this team.

Let’s expand it further:

Would I trade Murray (an already All-Star who put up historic numbers this season, one of the very few stars who plays on both ends of basketball, and is likely to get better) for a top 3 pick who could end up between James Wiseman (and countless other busts) or Jayson Tatum?

My answer is still no.

This sounds like a repeat of last summer where many were entertaining the thought of trading Murray for Ben Simmons. Appealing back then, very foolish now.

Like you said, this depends on how much the Spurs trust their talent evaluators… but the odds are so against that pick being a generational talent (it would have to be for the Spurs not to lose that trade) and the odds of that pick being better than Murray aren’t even that great either. I’ve done a thread analyzing the statistics of a top 3 pick being a star. It’s less than 5%. I imagine the odds for a generational talent (LeBron, Hakeem, TD) is less than 1%.

This is all ignoring the fact that Murray is a bonafide Spurs leader and removing him would basically alienate the rest of the team. Murray is the only bridge left that connects the past (the Big 3) to the present.

[BackHome]

Letting a good player walk cause you can’t or won’t pay that player should never happen. Meaning they should have an agreed amount for next contract wink wink or they should trade him if they know they can’t afford them. As far as Poodle if we’re not going to pay him then we better trade him and the return should be good

[Ariel]

Plenty big men took four plus years to develop into All-Stars. Many thought Ayton was going to be a bust and he’s about to get a max contract. Story isn’t written yet on Wiseman. I think he needs a young team like the Spurs to develop around not The Warriors. The situation reminds me of Darko Milicic (not that I’m saying he was good) where a #2 pick goes to a loaded team and can’t seem to find the right role on the team.
I agree with the reasoning, but Darko Milicic didn't bust out because he went to a loaded team, but because he was actually HORRIBLE. Was drafted solely on the infatuation of a Detroit scout named Tony Ronzone and his ESPN friend Chad Ford who wrote pieces about him making him out to be the next generational big, and a few minutes in a private workout sold management, but there was nothing of substance that would indicate he was that good of a talent. There are a lot of examples that support your point, Jermaine O'Neal comes to mind. But Darko just isn't one of them.

[tbdog]

I too think Wiseman has a future ahead of him. But he needs are more pnr offense and not the motion offense of the warriors. I would do Wiseman and kamiga for Poeltl and diop.

I'm thinking 3 years time.

[baseline bum]

Plenty big men took four plus years to develop into All-Stars. Many thought Ayton was going to be a bust and he’s about to get a max contract. Story isn’t written yet on Wiseman. I think he needs a young team like the Spurs to develop around not The Warriors. The situation reminds me of Darko Milicic (not that I’m saying he was good) where a #2 pick goes to a loaded team and can’t seem to find the right role on the team.

Ayton has been a rock solid player since the day he set foot on an NBA floor. Wiseman is no comparison to Ayton's first two years.

[exstatic]

I too think Wiseman has a future ahead of him. But he needs are more pnr offense and not the motion offense of the warriors. I would do Wiseman and kamiga for Poeltl and diop.

I'm thinking 3 years time.

They’re not moving both of their young assets.

[Ariel]

Ayton has been a rock solid player since the day he set foot on an NBA floor. Wiseman is no comparison to Ayton's first two years.
Take a look at this guy... https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealje01.html
https://i.ibb.co/Cmb3J9r/oneal.png

Big men can take longer to develop... of course doesn't guarantee that all of them will, but it just warrants a little bit extra patience... specially if they have been injured most of the time. He can still turn things around, he's no Hasheem Thabeet

[Ariel]

I would do Wiseman and kamiga for Poeltl and diop.
You want the Warriors to trade both Kumminga and Wiseman for a one year rental of Poeltl + a fringe rotation player in Bates-Diop? :lol They wouldn't trade Kumminga for Dejounte straight up... let's be serious people... you guys are way overrating our guys and undervaluing others.

[ZeusWillJudge]

There's always a risk. The point I've been trying to make is that you either have to pick a player that complements the current roster, or try to find a unicorn and build a whole roster around him. If you're going to re-structure an entire roster, you have to really know that your rookie is a unicorn. And there aren't many of those.

Memphis has built a pretty strong roster around a bunch of dogs who are ready for a fight every night. I don't know if they're ready for a Championship, but I really like that team. It helps that they have Morant, but they have a bunch of guys who complement each other pretty well, and play with attitude. I asked someone earlier what they are looking for in a guy who could dominate. To me, it's aggression and a little bit of... arrogance?

I liked Desmond Bane coming out of college for that reason. Last year I like Davion Mitchell for the same reason. In college, they called Mitchell "Off Night" because the players he defended always had an "off night". If you were looking for that kind of toughness and aggression in the group likely to go in the first round, who do you think of? When I started thinking about that, the one guy who stood out was Eason. The fact that he fits the position the Spurs need the most just make him that much better to me.

The combine could change things, but the more I look at this, if the Spurs don't get a lottery pick, I'm pretty comfortable with Eason at #9. He fits the roster needs, and he's got more of the junkyard in him than any of the other players I've looked at. I wouldn't tag him as a franchise, but I would add him to this roster, and then add pieces. If a unicorn comes along in the next couple of years, even better.

[baseline bum]

Take a look at this guy... https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealje01.html
https://i.ibb.co/Cmb3J9r/oneal.png

Big men can take longer to develop... of course doesn't guarantee that all of them will, but it just warrants a little bit extra patience... specially if they have been injured most of the time. He can still turn things around, he's no Hasheem Thabeet

Sorry, I don't see Rasheed Wallace, Arvydas Sabonis, and Brian Grant already there in Golden State there to stop Wiseman from getting minutes. Wiseman is a tantalizing prospect but I still see him more likely to bust than make an allstar team, so I want another asset in addition if I'm giving GS Poetl who is a known and quite good quantity in his prime on a cap friendly contract.

[MannyIsGod]

Even early on Jermaine O'Neal showed way more than wiseman ever had. Talk about a shit comparison.

[baseline bum]

Even early on Jermaine O'Neal showed way more than wiseman ever had. Talk about a shit comparison.

Plus Wiseman actually got significant minutes in Golden State unlike O'Neal in Portland.

[Ariel]

Even early on Jermaine O'Neal showed way more than wiseman ever had. Talk about a shit comparison.
That's hindsight speaking. Back in the day he was seen largely as a bust drafted out of high school hype. Wiseman played 39 games and hasn't played in a year. I get that some might not find his contract enticing or too risky, but writing him off as a player because of that blows my mind.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Plenty big men took four plus years to develop into All-Stars. Many thought Ayton was going to be a bust and he’s about to get a max contract. Story isn’t written yet on Wiseman. I think he needs a young team like the Spurs to develop around not The Warriors. The situation reminds me of Darko Milicic (not that I’m saying he was good) where a #2 pick goes to a loaded team and can’t seem to find the right role on the team.

Oh, man, I hate to just be argumentative - especially when there'a a lot of good basketball being kicked around. Are you sure you aren't thinking of someone else? Ayton started 70 games as a rookie, and put up 17+ points and 10+ boards. That's a prety big load for a rookie. I think you just crossed players when you were thinking he was ever a bust. But if there's something else you're looking at, lay it on us. To me the biggest problem with Ayton is that he's restricted, and the second biggest is that a numbrer of other teams will be trying to sign him. For the Spurs, in particular, it's a drawback that he can't drop out and shoot 3's.

You're right, though, that C's take years to develop. I always say 3, but 4 isn't unusual. Ayton is sort of an exception. I would love to have him at the 5, I just wouldn't want the probably-max contract that he's going to get.

[tbdog]

They’re not moving both of their young assets.

I didn't even mention picks. And Poeltl in the warriors would be perfect for them.

[Ariel]

Ayton was never considered a bust, just a bad no 1 pick because Luka and Trey were drafted behind him. But that's another matter.

[Dverde]

Oh, man, I hate to just be argumentative - especially when there'a a lot of good basketball being kicked around. Are you sure you aren't thinking of someone else? Ayton started 70 games as a rookie, and put up 17+ points and 10+ boards. That's a prety big load for a rookie. I think you just crossed players when you were thinking he was ever a bust. But if there's something else you're looking at, lay it on us. To me the biggest problem with Ayton is that he's restricted, and the second biggest is that a numbrer of other teams will be trying to sign him. For the Spurs, in particular, it's a drawback that he can't drop out and shoot 3's.

You're right, though, that C's take years to develop. I always say 3, but 4 isn't unusual. Ayton is sort of an exception. I would love to have him at the 5, I just wouldn't want the probably-max contract that he's going to get.

Maybe I’m misremembering. I do remember Ayton’s ability to defend in the NBA being questioned as a rookie and many thought the Suns blew the pick with Luka and Trae Young being picked after him. He was stat padding on a bad Suns team until Chris Paul arrived.

[scott]

I too think Wiseman has a future ahead of him. But he needs are more pnr offense and not the motion offense of the warriors. I would do Wiseman and kamiga for Poeltl and diop.

I'm thinking 3 years time.

I'd do Jak for Kumiga straight up in a heartbeat, so at that point Wiseman for KBD is kind of a toss in. I'd do this in an instant, but there is no way GSW would.

[baseline bum]

That's hindsight speaking. Back in the day he was seen largely as a bust drafted out of high school hype. Wiseman played 39 games and hasn't played in a year. I get that some might not find his contract enticing or too risky, but writing him off as a player because of that blows my mind.

No he wasn't. He was considered a promising player stuck behind a ton of high end veteran talent on a title contender. And I'm not writing Wiseman off. I'm saying he's more likely to be a bust than an allstar. I don't know how that's controversial two years into his career with his lackluster play and injury problems. Him being a #2 pick two years ago is meaningless when we're looking at him with two years of hindsight.

[tbdog]

I'd do Jak for Kumiga straight up in a heartbeat, so at that point Wiseman for KBD is kind of a toss in. I'd do this in an instant, but there is no way GSW would.

You'd think spurs would offload some picks. And then warriors look at using picks to get out of Wiggins. Ie Barnes.

[JPB]

Spurs are not trading Murray for any pick. Stay serious people. Nor should they.

They traded George, a role player, for the #15 pick when they had TD, Manu and TP... That's about it.

[Payote75]

Some people seem to be underselling this team. You have the core in place and they will only improve. This isn't the old nba where the game is playe inside out its now outside in with a ton off athleticism needed. DJ is the leader he stays Lonnie stays let these dude improve there shooting even further. Vas sell will be special he is a complete package and Keldon as well.

Now is is when the next moves are extremely crucial. You don't keep trading or trade a player like DJ and hop and wait for a generational player. That may never happen and then that's when you become Sacramento and keep rebuilding adding the same pieces developing them trading them etc, that's a vicious cycle.

you take some of your spare parts with value and some of those picks and some cap space and take this team to a different level.

-i definitely resign Lonnie

- if I can trade Jakob and say Mcbuckets and have to add a pick for John Collins I do it keeps the teem your adds some playoff experience and a better skill set. This does not eat into your cap space.

- with all the assets we have you can either draft and wait or trade for what we need.

- sign Mitchell Robinson that's your rim protection or back plan try for Mo Bamba

- we have the picks and money to field a young powerful up and coming team that could be a power if done right. Maybe biased but we do have a core we have the picks and have the cash.

- Primo and Vassell will be superstars Keldon a star and DJ is already a star and still improving.


We jave have the ammo its up to the front office to make the right moves.

[XDT76]

Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.

From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...

2022 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2022/)-23
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
21
$9,603,360
-
-
-
$9,603,360
$9,603,360($27,500,400)
$9,603,360


2023 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2023/)-24
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
22
$12,119,440
-
-
-
$12,119,440
$12,119,440($39,619,840)



2024 (https://www.spotrac.com/redirect/team/101/cap-2024/)-25
https://d1dglpr230r57l.cloudfront.net/images/thumb/nba_gs.png
23
QO: $15,815,870
-
-
-
Hold: $30,298,601




With this contract, I would rather go for Jalen Smith than Wiseman. At least we know Smith is available to play.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't think Wiseman is a long-term fit for the Warriors. My guess is that he could be gotten for less than giving up Jak. That would be a dumb move by our FO.

[KingKev]

Some people seem to be underselling this team. You have the core in place and they will only improve. This isn't the old nba where the game is playe inside out its now outside in with a ton off athleticism needed. DJ is the leader he stays Lonnie stays let these dude improve there shooting even further. Vas sell will be special he is a complete package and Keldon as well.

Now is is when the next moves are extremely crucial. You don't keep trading or trade a player like DJ and hop and wait for a generational player. That may never happen and then that's when you become Sacramento and keep rebuilding adding the same pieces developing them trading them etc, that's a vicious cycle.

you take some of your spare parts with value and some of those picks and some cap space and take this team to a different level.

-i definitely resign Lonnie

- if I can trade Jakob and say Mcbuckets and have to add a pick for John Collins I do it keeps the teem your adds some playoff experience and a better skill set. This does not eat into your cap space.

- with all the assets we have you can either draft and wait or trade for what we need.

- sign Mitchell Robinson that's your rim protection or back plan try for Mo Bamba

- we have the picks and money to field a young powerful up and coming team that could be a power if done right. Maybe biased but we do have a core we have the picks and have the cash.

- Primo and Vassell will be superstars Keldon a star and DJ is already a star and still improving.


We jave have the ammo its up to the front office to make the right moves.


Primo and Vassell superstars? Neither has shown any indication of that. None.

[rogcl1]

Some people seem to be underselling this team. You have the core in place and they will only improve. This isn't the old nba where the game is playe inside out its now outside in with a ton off athleticism needed. DJ is the leader he stays Lonnie stays let these dude improve there shooting even further. Vas sell will be special he is a complete package and Keldon as well.

Now is is when the next moves are extremely crucial. You don't keep trading or trade a player like DJ and hop and wait for a generational player. That may never happen and then that's when you become Sacramento and keep rebuilding adding the same pieces developing them trading them etc, that's a vicious cycle.

you take some of your spare parts with value and some of those picks and some cap space and take this team to a different level.

-i definitely resign Lonnie

- if I can trade Jakob and say Mcbuckets and have to add a pick for John Collins I do it keeps the teem your adds some playoff experience and a better skill set. This does not eat into your cap space.

- with all the assets we have you can either draft and wait or trade for what we need.

- sign Mitchell Robinson that's your rim protection or back plan try for Mo Bamba

- we have the picks and money to field a young powerful up and coming team that could be a power if done right. Maybe biased but we do have a core we have the picks and have the cash.

- Primo and Vassell will be superstars Keldon a star and DJ is already a star and still improving.


We jave have the ammo its up to the front office to make the right moves.

If not trolling, someone is drinking some mighty strong kool aid.

[TD 21]

1. I'd take Ivey over K. Murray. Offensive engine is obviously the most important singular skill, is still lacking here and he has a non zero chance to become one.

I'd most likely still retain Murray, but it would make the notion of trading him more palatable.

2. That package isn't getting into the top 3. I'd retain Vassell and reengage the Hornets on Poeltl for Washington Jr. and Jones. If they again turn down the request for their 1st, I'd offer to swap the Celtics one for it.

If they agree, I'd then offer the Spurs 1st, Washington Jr. and the Raptors 1st for 5 and something minor. If whoever is at 5 agrees, I'd select K. Murray. Hornets 1st is too much of an unknown to speculate on who'd be available.

3. BPA. Plus, another wing makes it more palatable to trade an incumbent one.

4. In a move related to 2, I'd offer Hartenstein 3 years and if required, up to the MLE. He's 24, has had to scrap to become a rotation player and is similar to Poeltl, with better touch.

Starters: K. Murray, Johnson, Hartenstein, Vassell, Murray

Bench: McDermott, Richardson, Collins, T. Jones, Primo, K. Jones, Hornets 1st

[Dverde]

Lonnie is liking tweets about his lack of playing time tonight. Looks like he was liking one of them during halftime. I’m over this diva. Maybe start reading books on how to be consistent or how to not settle for long jump shots.

[Payote75]

If not trolling, someone is drinking some mighty strong kool aid.


No no man not trolling I'm a die hard fan. I just see the glass half full. There is much work to be done however with the right pieces there is a lot of promise here. Like tonight's game against the Pelicans they had some of there young dude out there but they had a mix with veterans like McCollum. If the Spurs had for exampl a Bradley beal out there tonight that game is different more than likely. Just can't wait to see how this offseason unfolds its key.

Adding a a proven player and a big dude like Mitchell Robinson to a group like this makes a difference.
And no DD wasn't the guy we didn't need the midrange shooter guy we need a McCollum type guy sprinkled in. We have the ammo to add such a player. I'm not saying we are the warriors of 5 years ago but I firmly believe these kids have a shot.


also cut primo some slack and even Vassell ....not saying or dare comparing the two but what happened in the mambas first season. The kid has to want it and if he can be half the player it's a score. Vassell will get even better his shot is still inconsistent but you can see it will prove deadly. Sad when a fellow poster talking positively about our team has to be accused of drinking the kook aid or a troll. I see the inexperience inconsistency and mistakes but I also see talent assets cash and most importantly the potential.

[ZeusWillJudge]

And there you have it, boys and girls. This team needs a PF in the worst way. Put Keldon at the 3, knowing that he's very switchable, and it's a totally different ball game. It's not fair to have him playing as a full time 4. This roster literally does not have a PF. (Please, please don't anyone say a name that begins with Mc.) Even if they somehow swung getting Ayton (and I don't think it's a real possibility), they would still have a hole that other teams could drive a truck through.

If you put a really solid PF on this team, and a competent backup PF, the rest of the depth chart really starts to make sense. But if they call any name other than a PF on draft night, they'll be a play-in team again next year. Maybe in the top half, but still the play-in. They might anyway, because putting a rookie into a starting PF job is a tall order.

So... you want out of the box thinking? Draft both Sochan and Eason - one with the 9 pick, and the other using both of the other two first rounders and some small sweetener if necessary. I think that could be do-able. And then with the Lakers second round pick, a name I've been saving until this play-in scare was over... Andrew Nembhard from Gonzaga. Nembhard could be a really solid backup PG (I think he's ready). He's a scrappy defender, 6'5", and has a really high BBIQ and great court vision. He played 4 years of college, so there's not much chance that he turns into more than I've seen already, but that also means that he's seasoned enough to step in with a second unit instead of rotting in Austin. Put two PF's and a true backup PG on this squad, and let everyone else play where/how they belong, and this team would start making sense.

Don't like that option? Use the 9 pick for either Sochan or Eason, and one of the other firsts for Jabari Walker as the second PF. Sill sign Nembhard with the Lakers' second round pick. And use some of that cap space to steal Malik Monk away from the Lakers. The Lakers only have non-Bird rights, so the only way they could possibly keep Monk is to give him the MLE. That's 2/$13M for them, and the Spurs can do better. They could do all that and still have a first round pick to kick down the road. It would make the LWIV issue a lot less stressful. And it would give them a LOT of additional floor spacing and defense.

If you don't know about Nembhard, go look at some video. Everyone was so busy watching Suggs last year and Holmgren this year that he just stayed pretty much under the radar. He doesn't project as a star, but he's solid, and would bring a lot to the Spurs second unit.

[Kurik]

Let Lonnie go.

Draft one of Eason, Sochan, or Liddell(2nd or 3rd FRP).

Draft someone who can score.

Move any remaining picks for future assets.

Try to move Doug.

Keep Collins, might be tradeable along with JRich at the next deadline.

Free agency, I have no idea who to go after.

[rogcl1]

No no man not trolling I'm a die hard fan. I just see the glass half full. There is much work to be done however with the right pieces there is a lot of promise here. Like tonight's game against the Pelicans they had some of there young dude out there but they had a mix with veterans like McCollum. If the Spurs had for exampl a Bradley beal out there tonight that game is different more than likely. Just can't wait to see how this offseason unfolds its key.

Adding a a proven player and a big dude like Mitchell Robinson to a group like this makes a difference.
And no DD wasn't the guy we didn't need the midrange shooter guy we need a McCollum type guy sprinkled in. We have the ammo to add such a player. I'm not saying we are the warriors of 5 years ago but I firmly believe these kids have a shot.


also cut primo some slack and even Vassell ....not saying or dare comparing the two but what happened in the mambas first season. The kid has to want it and if he can be half the player it's a score. Vassell will get even better his shot is still inconsistent but you can see it will prove deadly. Sad when a fellow poster talking positively about our team has to be accused of drinking the kook aid or a troll. I see the inexperience inconsistency and mistakes but I also see talent assets cash and most importantly the potential.

'' Primo and Vassell will be superstars Keldon a star and DJ is already a star and still improving."
You think its sad because a fellow poster thinks your view expressed in the quote above may be a bit far fetched? Its a message board and there would be no discussion if everyone agreed. Nothing wrong with being optimistic but your perception may not be reality. The Spurs do have some nice young pieces but everyone knows that the Spurs need to add a true star and fill some holes to take the next step.
Nothing wrong with being a die hard fan , as I have been a fan since 1973 when they moved here.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I would think that no player on the Spurs is untouchable at this point, should the right deal be available.

Wright's moves at the trade deadline gave me hope that we don't have deep-seated loyalty to moving any player if we have the opportunity to improve the team overall. He earned my full approval for the trade deadline moves that were done. Even moving someone like White who previously was considered a "core" piece in the rebuild was the correct decision, IMO.

[KingKev]

I would think that no player on the Spurs is untouchable at this point, should the right deal be available.

Wright's moves at the trade deadline gave me hope that we don't have deep-seated loyalty to moving any player if we have the opportunity to improve the team overall. He earned my full approval for the trade deadline moves that were done. Even moving someone like White who previously was considered a "core" piece in the rebuild was the correct decision, IMO.

I mostly agree with this till it becomes a culture thing. You need to blow my socks off to trade DJ. Not because he is a generational talent but he is a near generational leader. He brings so many intangibles that you won’t get back in a trade.

The same intangibles White never possessed.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I would think that no player on the Spurs is untouchable at this point, should the right deal be available.

Wright's moves at the trade deadline gave me hope that we don't have deep-seated loyalty to moving any player if we have the opportunity to improve the team overall. He earned my full approval for the trade deadline moves that were done. Even moving someone like White who previously was considered a "core" piece in the rebuild was the correct decision, IMO.


You said the one thing I probably need to keep in mind. All that maneuvering was very un-PATFO-like. That's enough reason to at least think they might be more aggressive making a deal or two this offseason.

[pad300]

OK, big post time.

It starts with assessing what we have.

At PG DJ is never going to be a good enough 1st option, but he's a keeper, as he's a very good 3ed or a decent 2nd (in theory, he becomes a better version of JRue). Tre is also good and a keeper. If he develops a 3, he's a starter level player or a very high end backup. Both are on good contracts. So no need to get a PG.

At SG, l think Vassel is a starter+ level guy. Then it gets complicated. Primo is a keep unless someone blows us away with an offer, but I'm not sure what spot he takes in the rotation. Lonnie continues to develop, slow going but he's doing it and if he reaches his potential he's also a starter+ guy. Problem is that his inconsistencies make him iffy as a backup. J rich is also demonstrating starter level play. IMO, though, as an expiring (next year) vet who's not really on our timeline, he should be traded for a longer term asset. Weiskamp is fine as third string 2-3 on a 2-way contract. Langford - haven't seen enough to say anything. Overall, we have 2 definite keepers at this spot (Vassel, Primo) and I think we need to move on from at least 2 of the other 4 (J Rich, Langford, Lonnie, Weiskamp; I think J Rich will go as he will bring in the most value).

At SF, I think Keldon should play here. We haven't seen a lot of that, but depending on how it works, he's either starting or first backup here. But after him, we have holes. In theory, Vassel or Primo might move up, but I think they fit better as 2's (also Weiskamp, but for now he's at best a 3ed string guy). Neither KBD nor McDermott should be playing down (IMO). So we could use a 3 (or two).

At PF we have a great big hole. Keldon should be playing 3. KBD would be ok as a 3ed string. McDermott is a shooting specialist, and the rest of the roster isn't strong to hide the holes in his game. He should have some trade value on the market, as a vet with a recognized and valuable skill (shooting, esp at 6'8"). We need to get at least 1 PF and really should look for 2...

At C we have Poeltl, who's good value on the contract he's on. BUT, if we want to become a team with real championship aspirations, we need to upgrade. He's got strategic flaws: First, like Gobert, he can't punish a team that plays tiny ball against him (note that both he and Gobert are OK for C's on the perimeter). This weakness has been the Jazz's downfall in a couple of playoff series. Second, he gets his shit pushed in a by a good classical big man; see what J Val consistently does to him. Getting wrecked both by tiny ball and by classic ball, at least 1 weakness too many for a starter at a championship level - you will face teams that can play both those styles before you ring... Collins has been ok, and has not re-injured himself, so he gets to stay next year (espcially as there is a chance he will continue to improve given training camp and an offseason to continue recovery). Landale is an acceptable 3ed string.

Needs: PF, SF, C upgrade

Due to the NBA’s timeline, the draft becomes the next issue. We have our own lottery pick (#9), the raptors pick (20 or 21) and the Celtics pick (23-25). We also have the Lakers picks (#38) in the second round.
1) Pray we move up. If we do, we take whomever we can of the top 4 bigs ( Paolo, Chet, Jabari, Keegan in that order. Chet < Paolo because of body. Jabari > Keegan because of age). (As an aside, I don’t particularly like Ivey : he’s not creative enough with the ball to be worth a top 4 pick, IMO).
1A) I don’t’ think it will be possible to trade into the top 4.
2) Assuming we don’t, we will take whomever the FO thinks is BPA. Lots of guesswork at this point, with 8 teams picking before us and lots of weight given to character and interviews. There are some candidates for BPA that might be available that fit with our needs (Eason, Duren, Sochan, Williams), and others who don’t (Mathurin, Sharpe, Davis). Eason stands out statistically, but I have some character concerns (mind you, without such concerns, I doubt he drops to 9).
3) With the later picks, I suspect at least 1, maybe 2 will be draft and stash (assuming we make no deals). Several players I would be willing to do that with (Dieng, Jovic, Gui Santos, Gabriele Procida, Spagnolo, Kamagate, Samar), and not doubt the FO has there eye on others as well.

Free agency is the last part of the jigsaw. I am of the opinion that if you have max cap space, strategically, you should try to swing it around (but in a smart fashion). That means not being afraid to put a max in front of someone who’s worth it (and fits with what you’re doing). Of the possible FA’s, IMO, that’s Deandre Ayton (assuming we don’t draft Duren/Williams). I would do it, during the pre-signing moratorium, so it’s only locking up our cap space for 2 days after the moratorium. Me an Exstatic have gone round and round about will the Suns match… I’m not so sure they will (Sarver), and they might well agree to an S&T : Poeltl and J rich + ??? for Ayton (we can absorb the salary difference into cap). After that, get Ayton or no, a shot at Jalen Smith would be a decent idea – he’s looked pretty good at Indy, although I am not sure if he can play the 4 or is solely a 5. (We have the capspace if we S&T for Ayton)… Maybe try to get Claxton or Boucher on the cheap, but again, can either really play the 4 in this league?

Beyyond that though, I’m not sure there’s a single SF or PF FA that I really like … (Caleb and Cody Martin are both RFA’s and decent players, but they’re only 6’5”. There’s also Kyle Anderson, but …. And I’m not too sure he’d be willing to come back.) Hopefully the FO can find someone or one of the draft picks fits (or work some sort of a trade, but I think we’d end up paying too much due to the shortage of such players).

[R. DeMurre]

I’ve done a thread analyzing the statistics of a top 3 pick being a star. It’s less than 5%.


There's no possible way this is accurate. If you take the top 3 picks of the last 10 years, that's 30 players. 5% of 30 = 1.5. So according to your formula, there wouldn't even be 2 stars picked in the top 3 over the last decade? Joel Embiid, Jayson Taytum, Luka Doncic, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Bradley Beal, Karl Anthony-Towns, Ja Morant, Zion, Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball, Evan Mobley... that's 12 right there, plus borderline stars like Cade Cunningham, Deandre Ayton, Ben Simmons, Jaylen Brown. Embiid, Taytum, & Doncic alone prove that percentage isn't accurate-- those three by themselves are 10% of the top three picks of the last decade.

[SAGirl]

I mostly agree with this till it becomes a culture thing. You need to blow my socks off to trade DJ. Not because he is a generational talent but he is a near generational leader. He brings so many intangibles that you won’t get back in a trade.

The same intangibles White never possessed.

Yeah I really think they only move DJ if he wants to and he would only want to get traded if the team stays in a treadmill of worse than mediocre play. Eventually he will tire out and will want a chance to compete in a good team before he’s too old to impact the game positively, but that’s a pessimistic take that assumes Spurs are incompetent to improve the team. It is premature right now, but there’s also a window with Murray and the team may not be tied to it. We shall see what happens.

[MultiTroll]

... Andrew Nembhard from Gonzaga.

Don't like that option? Use the 9 pick for either Sochan or Eason,
Nembhard is Charmin soft and a huge reason they choked in the tourney.
Sochan yes absolutely.

Dk about Eason but if Aggie Hoops agrees that is good for me.

[MannyIsGod]

That's hindsight speaking. Back in the day he was seen largely as a bust drafted out of high school hype. Wiseman played 39 games and hasn't played in a year. I get that some might not find his contract enticing or too risky, but writing him off as a player because of that blows my mind.

I'm not writing him off as a player, I just don't think comparing him to J O'neal is a good comparison. Portland was a shit franchise back then but they had a shitload of talented bigs. Golden State, on the other hand, is the opposite of a shirt franchise right now.

[spurraider21]

spurs have a demi-star in Murray, and otherwise a number of solid role player types. need at least one more demi-star before the team is actually competitive

[T Park]

Primo and Vassell superstars? Neither has shown any indication of that. None.

They’re 19 and 21. Maybe take a breath.

[Degoat]

Not going to lie I think spurs still need to draft best player available and not worry about positional needs, Johnny Davis and Jalen Duren give me game changer vibes.

[CGD]

Not going to lie I think spurs still need to draft best player available and not worry about positional needs, Johnny Davis and Jalen Duren give me game changer vibes.

I agree on BPA. It feels like they will need to cycle through the Murray-White-Jak cohort completely, upgrading along the way, before they get their new contending core.

[CGD]

All told I think this was a “good” season in context. Spurs were never going to compete for a championship.

- Good draft capital acquired
- Murray Allstar
- Addressed White/Murray logjam
- internal growth from key players
- reached play-in while keeping top 10 pick
- Pop record
- restoring my confidence in FO
- Zollins gamble validated

[Ariel]

They’re 19 and 21. Maybe take a breath.
Precisely, they're 19 and 21, it's whoever is calling them future superstars that needs to take a breath. They might develop nicely, even all stars if all planets are aligned... but you have to be smoking crack to declare them future superstars at this point in time with what we've seen.

[Ariel]

I'm not writing him off as a player, I just don't think comparing him to J O'neal is a good comparison. Portland was a shit franchise back then but they had a shitload of talented bigs. Golden State, on the other hand, is the opposite of a shirt franchise right now.
I didn't compare Wiseman to Jermaine O'Neal as a player, I said that big men take longer to develop and cited him as one such example.

[Dverde]

T.J. Warren too broken and old to target in free agency for this team? He’s 28, 6’8 and shoots the 3

[TDMVPDPOY]

get another big who can defend and rebound and easy baskets

then need a alpha scorer on the team or trade for one...

[B1gduff]

STarts off with the draft. We lack a solid sf/pf, their a few in this years class that can help.
Pick 1: best player available or team need
Pick 2 : high risk high award type
Pick 3 : save pick.

Free agency:
1. Re-sign Walker, in the 8-12 mil range, anything higher you sit out.
2. Look into TJ Warren. He's a scorer! and will help take some stress off from Murray. Foot injury is a concern, but also could drive the price down. He also fills a need on the roster.

Current group;
1. Improvement on the defensive end for almost everyone!
2. Vassel and Keldon, add more to their games! that starts with a better mid-range game, find there sweet spot and make it thier own.
3. Jones; get that 3 pt shot working
4. Jakob; 3pt? and free throws
5. Langford; get this guy to work out with Timmy and get him into YOG. This Guy needs to stay healthy

[XDT76]

Precisely, they're 19 and 21, it's whoever is calling them future superstars that needs to take a breath. They might develop nicely, even all stars if all planets are aligned... but you have to be smoking crack to declare them future superstars at this point in time with what we've seen.

Totally agree these 2 are no where near Kobe, Garnett and Lebron were at 19 when they were playing in the NBA.

[scott]

Not going to lie I think spurs still need to draft best player available and not worry about positional needs, Johnny Davis and Jalen Duren give me game changer vibes.

I think Mathurin is that dude, and if we pass on him, we'll end up regretting it down the road (unless we get top 4, in which case you have to pass on him). With that said, I think he is likely gone by our pick.

[Ariel]

I think Mathurin is that dude, and if we pass on him, we'll end up regretting it down the road (unless we get top 4, in which case you have to pass on him). With that said, I think he is likely gone by our pick.
Mathurin will almost surely be gone by 9. And if we pick top 4 he's not our target.

[offset formation]

1. Murray.
2. Tempting but no. Think Vassell is a keeper.
3. Duren
4. I've shifted on this as my respect for Poeltl's game has increased. Of course if you can reel in a Ayton, you do so and get a first and a second for Poeltl. Outside of that, you find the best available center in the draft (see above) and let him grow in the system under Poeltl.

[Payote75]

'' Primo and Vassell will be superstars Keldon a star and DJ is already a star and still improving."
You think its sad because a fellow poster thinks your view expressed in the quote above may be a bit far fetched? Its a message board and there would be no discussion if everyone agreed. Nothing wrong with being optimistic but your perception may not be reality. The Spurs do have some nice young pieces but everyone knows that the Spurs need to add a true star and fill some holes to take the next step.
Nothing wrong with being a die hard fan , as I have been a fan since 1973 when they moved here.


essentially what I said though. The Spurs have the pieces hence why even though I don't think it will happen I mentioned Bradley Beal. My point being if McCollum was on the Spurs yesterday who wins? I know it's speculation but most of us should know enough to know what the outcome would be. Troll and Koolaid is condescending bullshit. I see something special here and with some cap space with assets in the draft and even a market for a McBuckets. If you could get a beal type shooter that isn't a defensive liability it changes everything.

[rogcl1]

essentially what I said though. The Spurs have the pieces hence why even though I don't think it will happen I mentioned Bradley Beal. My point being if McCollum was on the Spurs yesterday who wins? I know it's speculation but most of us should know enough to know what the outcome would be. Troll and Koolaid is condescending bullshit. I see something special here and with some cap space with assets in the draft and even a market for a McBuckets. If you could get a beal type shooter that isn't a defensive liability it changes everything.

Well excuse me. i was just questioning your proclamation that Primo and Vassel would be superstars. Hope they are but a little early for that in my opinion.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Nembhard is Charmin soft and a huge reason they choked in the tourney.
Sochan yes absolutely.


Most people would start an argument over that. Instead, why don't you see if you can find me some clips of Nembhard being "soft" in that game. I'm always willing to learn. Most people thought that the biggest reason Zaga lost that game was that Holmgren got pushed around by Jaylin Williams far too much. And if you go back and look, I predicted that was going to happen.

For everybody else who didn't watch the game, here is one of the videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssCSuyeL8KE Nembhard got a shot blocked from behind near the end, but he also made some pretty nice plays.

Never mind that Nembhard is 6'4" and Jones is 6'1" and I think he (Nembhard) would keep the second string offense flowing better. Jones shot .196 from 3P this season, and Nembhard shot .383 (.343 for his 4-year college career).

[mystargtr34]

Just took a gander at the 2022 free agents on Spotrac and saw that Robert Covington and Batum are both UFA this summer.

I think Covington would be a good stopgap solution for the Spurs at the 4 spot. Whether you draft a Sochan or not. 36% career 3 point shooter (45% with the Clips this season) so he can spread the floor. Still an effective defender averages 1.5 blocks and 1.5 steals a game. Good size at 6’7 with a 7’3 wingspan. Gets deflections. The negatives would be will he give the same effort on a average/young team like the Spurs would be. Seems like he mailed it in a bit when he was with the Blazers and Rockets last couple years. Average to below average rebounder, but better than Keldon and way better than McDermott on the board.

May be a moot point if he and the Clippers want to run it back next season with a healthy Kawhi.

Batum is also an out and out 4-man these days given he’s lost a couple steps but in today’s game his 6’8 height is enough to play the 4 spot.

In terms of big fish theres not much out there other than Ayton. I rekon the Suns would match a max contract offer tbh but would be worth a try. Spurs would have to overpay to get him tbh. Not sure id go after him for a max price tag.

Beal has a player option but can’t see him coming to the Spurs.

[Ocotillo]

With the underwhelming free agent class this offseason, maybe the cap space is used for receiving contracts into it via trade rather than signing free agents.

[MultiTroll]

Most people would start an argument over that. Instead, why don't you see if you can find me some clips of Nembhard being "soft" in that game. I'm always willing to learn. Most people thought that the biggest reason Zaga lost that game was that Holmgren got pushed around by Jaylin Williams far too much. And if you go back and look, I predicted that was going to happen.

For everybody else who didn't watch the game, here is one of the videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssCSuyeL8KE Nembhard got a shot blocked from behind near the end, but he also made some pretty nice plays.

Never mind that Nembhard is 6'4" and Jones is 6'1" and I think he (Nembhard) would keep the second string offense flowing better. Jones shot .196 from 3P this season, and Nembhard shot .383 (.343 for his 4-year college career).
Nevermind that the Zag guards were 8-30 (4-15) with Nembhard leading the way at 2-11 with 5 turnovers.

Chets hardly the reason they lost. 11/14 in only 23 minutes.
Show me some clips, i will look for Nembhard clips.

[Payote75]

Well excuse me. i was just questioning your proclamation that Primo and Vassel would be superstars. Hope they are but a little early for that in my opinion.

ok let me rephrase then they are both still babies however I can see superstar ability in them both but then again who the hell am I lol. That said I just seen lot of good things happening here and it's predicated on the next couple of moves.

[rankingtear]

Rising cap hurts us, we got a lot picks from teams needing to go under the tax. WAS, BOS, TOR.

[rascal]

ok let me rephrase then they are both still babies however I can see superstar ability in them both but then again who the hell am I lol. That said I just seen lot of good things happening here and it's predicated on the next couple of moves.

I don't see superstar players in either of these guys. I see solid starters but at best fringe level all stars. Ivey and Sharpe I see possible super star level players. Far more quickness and athleticism in these guys over Primo and Vassel.

[rascal]

I don't superstar players in either of these guys. I see solid starters and at best fringe level all stars. Ivey and Sharpe I see possible super star level players. Far more quickness and athleticism in these guys over Primo and Vassel.

[mo7888]

I think with Charlotte now having the 13th and 15th picks (assuming they don't change in the lottery) I think there's a deal to be made there involving Poeltl... it could be structured several ways depending on where we want to go as a team..

[wildbill2u]

Was it only by chance that Keldon didn't get any time on the floor as an Olympian, despite having his professional coach at the helm? I didn't hear anything about some injury or illness??? No, he just wasn't good enough to play. That indicator should be in everyone's mind when they talk about him in our future plans. In one list of PF rankings he doesn't even appear in the top 100. Power Forward Players List on NBA 2K22 | 2K Ratings (https://www.2kratings.com/lists/power-forward).

Everyone should recognize that he isn't able to play either the 3 or the 4 competitively as an NBA starter. Pop was forced to put him on the floor because of his dramatic improvement in shooting--and TBH we didn't have anyone else---, but you can't teach height, speed, BBIQ, etc. Those minuses in his skillset make him a bench player on any good NBA team. And at this point in time, we aren't a good NBA team. Good hustle guy, but needs to be on the bench. If we could trade him to improve our draft pick or holes in the roster, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but realistically who would want him???

Lonnie? What if he used those great physical abilities to play great defense and rebound? Wouldn't that make him more valuable for this team? I'd love to see it, but all the emphasis on his occasional bursts of scoring and highlight reel slashes to the basket get all the attention. His offense is becoming more consistent, but does that keep him on a team loaded with guards who can play better all around? I don't know. I'd like to see one more year, but only one. You can't be on the "development project" bubble forever.

[mo7888]

Also (wondering out loud) if the rumors are true that indy would take Westbrook to get off brogdan and buddy...would they be willing to trade 5 for 9 if we took brogdan? Would we want that?

[niraj2000]

I do not think Indy gives us a high pick after the Hill/Kawhi trade.

[mo7888]

I do not think Indy gives us a high pick after the Hill/Kawhi trade.

I don't think that even enters into anyone's mind at this point

[BackHome]

I actually think it does because Spurs rarely do trades so if we wanting to move up in draft teams are going to wonder 'OK What Am I Not Seeing"?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Nevermind that the Zag guards were 8-30 (4-15) with Nembhard leading the way at 2-11 with 5 turnovers.

Chets hardly the reason they lost. 11/14 in only 23 minutes.
Show me some clips, i will look for Nembhard clips.


LOL. They were bad in that game, I'll give you that. I don't think he looked soft, but opinions are worth every cent you pay for them.

This is my favorite time of year. I'm always on the lookout for draft bargains that would fit some Spurs need. I've been doing it for... well, a lot of years. Nearly everybody else here spends their time looking at Top 3 picks, as if the Spurs could somehow snag them with their mid-teens or -twenties picks. As if trading two crappy players for a Top 3 pick could somehow happen.

I think Nembhard would be a very competent second unit PG, and help them keep the ball moving - which is always a challenge for second units. He protects the ball, has good court vision and a high BBIQ, and he shoots the 3 well. I never got the impression that he would turn into a star, but I also never thought that he was soft. And I watched them play a number of times this year, because I was trying to decide if I really believe that Holmgren is the best big man draft prospect ever. (I don't.)

I still think he is a value pick in the second round, and would be a plus for this Spurs roster. But only if they've added some size in the first round. Like the title of the thread says, I'm looking at the whole draft picture, and not just individual players in a vacuum.

[Payote75]

I don't see superstar players in either of these guys. I see solid starters but at best fringe level all stars. Ivey and Sharpe I see possible super star level players. Far more quickness and athleticism in these guys over Primo and Vassel.


Guess only time will tell

[Fusternino]

T.J. Warren too broken and old to target in free agency for this team? He’s 28, 6’8 and shoots the 3

Is he even playing this year? I remember he used to be in love with the mid range. Standing reach is also more in line with a 2/3 than a 3/4.

I think the usual suspects make a lot of sense here. Kyle Anderson, Jalen Smith, Jeff Green, JaMychal Green, Batum, Portis, Covington, Harrell, etc.

[Degoat]

Topic 1 for the off-season, how much will it costs for us to bring back Mills and Forbes? Can we afford it? Lmao

[CGD]

I say let’s get in on the AD sweepstakes! You just know LeBron is gonna throw him under the bus after he realizes no one will trade for his boy Russ.

Yak, Rich, Doug and multiple picks.

[offset formation]

I say let’s get in on the AD sweepstakes! You just know LeBron is gonna throw him under the bus after he realizes no one will trade for his boy Russ.

Yak, Rich, Doug and multiple picks.

No. I wouldn't even trade Jakob for AD straight up, let alone with players AND picks. Let me see the dude play 75 games first then I'd consider some package but until then...hell to the naw.

Besides, why give away the one thing you have going for you (picks) for a player that cannot be relied on?

[The Truth #6]

AD wants the limelight. I think he would be a divaster in SA. (I think that may be a new word I accidentally typed, but seems fitting.)

[R. DeMurre]

AD wants the limelight. I think he would be a divaster in SA. (I think that may be a new word I accidentally typed, but seems fitting.)


:lol

[Teamduncan21]

Topic 1 for the off-season, how much will it costs for us to bring back Mills and Forbes? Can we afford it? Lmao

Let's get Forbes again and do the trade up (down?) Repeatedly for more/better picks. It actually went ok by the end of the day

[Ariel]

Bobby Portis anyone? He's got a player option, is getting paid little so may be willing to cash in. He's 27, 6-10', can shoot, performs under pressure, not the greatest defender but willing to work and team oriented... we could do a lot worse than that.

[lmbebo]

Bobby Portis anyone? He's got a player option, is getting paid little so may be willing to cash in. He's 27, 6-10', can shoot, performs under pressure, not the greatest defender but willing to work and team oriented... we could do a lot worse than that.


Think he took less to stay with the Bucks this year.

[The Truth #6]

Bobby Portis anyone? He's got a player option, is getting paid little so may be willing to cash in. He's 27, 6-10', can shoot, performs under pressure, not the greatest defender but willing to work and team oriented... we could do a lot worse than that.

Spurs may wait until he has more miles and a possible knee or shoulder injury before getting serious about him. Joking...

[Ariel]

Think he took less to stay with the Bucks this year.
Yes... but eventually he might want to get paid better. He's making something like 5M a year, which seems way too little for a valuable championship contributor. He'd also be a valuable asset for a later trade, he's the kind of piece a contender is willing to overpay for, when things start to go sour and the trade deadline approaches... worth a look at least, IMO.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't see a perfect PF for the Spurs right now, so the best case scenario is a guy who fits the need and holds the spot for one to three years while the team positions itself for a more impactful long term answer. That's why I'm fine with seemingly gettable guys like Jalen Smith, Paul Reed, or Chris Boucher. The first two are young and Boucher, though 29, could reasonably be expected to play at his current level until age 32/33. I really liked Jonathan Isaac for a while there, but his ever expanding quirks of being injury prone, anti-vax, unpopular with teammates, uber religious, and conspiracy prone have definitely taken the shine off of his otherwise very intriguing talents...

[Dverde]

It would be spectacular if the Spurs end up signing Thad Young lol

[TD 21]

I don't see a perfect PF for the Spurs right now, so the best case scenario is a guy who fits the need and holds the spot for one to three years while the team positions itself for a more impactful long term answer. That's why I'm fine with seemingly gettable guys like Jalen Smith, Paul Reed, or Chris Boucher. The first two are young and Boucher, though 29, could reasonably be expected to play at his current level until age 32/33. I really liked Jonathan Isaac for a while there, but his ever expanding quirks of being injury prone, anti-vax, unpopular with teammates, uber religious, and conspiracy prone have definitely taken the shine off of his otherwise very intriguing talents...

Define perfect. They do have realistic paths to Murray and Collins and could have Washington Jr. if they want him.

None of those 3 you listed are starters or fours, especially alongside a five like Poeltl. They're all closer to fives, but they're not really equipped to play as the lone big either, so what they need is a rim runner who can cross match (or in Reed's case, a spacer who can crossmatch).

[couchman]

FREE AGENCY
I like picking up Jalen Smith, perhaps in a sign a trade for some bench pieces and 2nd rounders if necessary.
Zach LaVine would be interesting. Can we get him to play D? If not he isn't worth the max or whatever he would command.
Deandre Ayton will also be too expensive and we don't really need a center. His stats are inflated by the service he gets from CP3 and others around him.
Not too many other FA's intrigue me. Maybe Slo-Mo?

DRAFT
I'm praying for that ball to fall our way for a top 4 pick.
I favor Banchero, Smith, and Ivey in that order.
I'm not sold on Chet and if we are 4th with him on the board we might want to trade down targeting Keegan Murray.
If we pick 9-10 I like Keegan Murray, Sochan, and maybe Tari Eason, depending on who is available.
I doubt that we'll be able to trade our way into a top 4 pick.
I am AGAINST us packaging the 20th and 25th pick to move up a few spots unless we really are in love with someone that has fallen in the draft.
I think a 15th pick and a 20th pick are essentially the same for the Spurs combination of scouting and development.
Unless someone we like is falling to us at 25 I would prefer that we trade away the 25th for a future 1st.

[couchman]

Players I really don't want with our first pick:

TyTy Washington. I don't see what the hype is about
Jalen Duren unless we've traded away Poeltl. DJM doesn't even throw the lob very well yet

I'm also "meh" on AJ Griffin and Ochai Agbaji, who I think top out as elite role players (we need to swing for home runs and find a real star)

[XDT76]

FREE AGENCY
I like picking up Jalen Smith, perhaps in a sign a trade for some bench pieces and 2nd rounders if necessary.
Zach LaVine would be interesting. Can we get him to play D? If not he isn't worth the max or whatever he would command.
Deandre Ayton will also be too expensive and we don't really need a center. His stats are inflated by the service he gets from CP3 and others around him.
Not too many other FA's intrigue me. Maybe Slo-Mo?

DRAFT
I'm praying for that ball to fall our way for a top 4 pick.
I favor Banchero, Smith, and Ivey in that order.
I'm not sold on Chet and if we are 4th with him on the board we might want to trade down targeting Keegan Murray.
If we pick 9-10 I like Keegan Murray, Sochan, and maybe Tari Eason, depending on who is available.
I doubt that we'll be able to trade our way into a top 4 pick.
I am AGAINST us packaging the 20th and 25th pick to move up a few spots unless we really are in love with someone that has fallen in the draft.
I think a 15th pick and a 20th pick are essentially the same for the Spurs combination of scouting and development.
Unless someone we like is falling to us at 25 I would prefer that we trade away the 25th for a future 1st.

In a sign an trade scenario can J. Smith signs for more than what Indiana can offer?

[KingKev]

In a sign an trade scenario can J. Smith signs for more than what Indiana can offer?

He is an UFA and the Pacers can’t pay him more than 4.5mm despite having cap to pay him more. We should easily be able to get him. Bet he gets 3yrs 40mm. We absolutely should be suitors.

[KingKev]

It’s absolutely redic Spurs fans question Lavine’s max status. If he wants to come here you absolutely pay him the max. Booker was a trash defender once upon a time also. He easily has the physical attributes to turn that part of his game around.

[BacktoBasics]

He is an UFA and the Pacers can’t pay him more than 4.5mm despite having cap to pay him more. We should easily be able to get him. Bet he gets 3yrs 40mm. We absolutely should be suitors.

That would be a fantastic signing and if this team has confidence they could get it done it makes our lottery pick that much more flexible.

I haven’t looked into who would be takers for him outside of us.

I really hope he’s on our radar.

[PhantomDashCam]

Jalen Smith at 3 for 40m? If you believe he's a C, (I do and haven't seen or read compelling evidence otherwise...), you'd be paying him annually, more on average than these current players who play the same position:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-value/center/limit-100/

Brook Lopez, Wendell Carter Jr., Robert Williams III, Richaun Holmes, Jusuf Nurkic, Jakob Poeltl, Zach Collins, Thomas Bryant, Ivica Zubac...

[mo7888]

Jalen Smith at 3 for 40m? If you believe he's a C, (I do and haven't seen or read compelling evidence otherwise...), you'd be paying him annually, more on average than these current players who play the same position:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-value/center/limit-100/

Brook Lopez, Wendell Carter Jr., Robert Williams III, Richaun Holmes, Jusuf Nurkic, Jakob Poeltl, Zach Collins, Thomas Bryant, Ivica Zubac...

$40M /3 would be nuts... I get it if you're getting him cheap but a little more than indy can pay but, that's insanity...

[XDT76]

$40M /3 would be nuts... I get it if you're getting him cheap but a little more than indy can pay but, that's insanity...


Yeah I was expecting $25-$30/3 or if $38-$42M/4 with options included

[ZeusWillJudge]

Spurs may wait until he has more miles and a possible knee or shoulder injury before getting serious about him. Joking...


It would be spectacular if the Spurs end up signing Thad Young lol


LOL. There are some salty dogs on this site. :lol

[The Truth #6]

It’s absolutely redic Spurs fans question Lavine’s max status. If he wants to come here you absolutely pay him the max. Booker was a trash defender once upon a time also. He easily has the physical attributes to turn that part of his game around.

I heard a podcast a week ago hosted by Spurs and Bulls fans. The Bulls fan thought it was 60/40 they re-sign Lavine with the Spurs being the next obvious suitors. Pop knows Lavine from the Olympics. Also, the Bulls guy suggested there are only a few times that can max him out with maybe Detroit as one, but a less likely suitor. Anyway. Made me think Lavine was slightly more realistic than I initially thought.

[BacktoBasics]

I heard a podcast a week ago hosted by Spurs and Bulls fans. The Bulls fan thought it was 60/40 they re-sign Lavine with the Spurs being the next obvious suitors. Pop knows Lavine from the Olympics. Also, the Bulls guy suggested there are only a few times that can max him out with maybe Detroit as one, but a less likely suitor. Anyway. Made me think Lavine was slightly more realistic than I initially thought.
60/40 is kinda shocking. I’d say 90% chance he resigns. Chicago has a much better supporting cast than SA. I see no motivation for Lavine to want to walk. It would take a monumental fuck up on Chicago’s part for him to not be back.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I heard a podcast a week ago hosted by Spurs and Bulls fans. The Bulls fan thought it was 60/40 they re-sign Lavine with the Spurs being the next obvious suitors. Pop knows Lavine from the Olympics. Also, the Bulls guy suggested there are only a few times that can max him out with maybe Detroit as one, but a less likely suitor. Anyway. Made me think Lavine was slightly more realistic than I initially thought.


I don't see how Chicago can keep their hopes alive without him. But I read an interview recently where he said that he needs to get paid what he deserves, and the implication was that it means a max deal.

The Bulls can give him 5/$210M. And that's if he doesn't make the All-NBA team - then he would be eligible for super-max which is close to 5/$250M currently.
The most other teams could offere would be around 4/$160M.

The only ways I can see the Spurs actually getting him would be if Chicago won't spring for a max deal, and he gets disgruntled and just wants to play for someone who he thinks values him. Or... if the Bulls can't/won't give him a max deal, so the Spurs arrange to give it to him through a sign and trade. I don't even want to think about all the salary matching considerations involved in that. Not to mention pick(s).

He would be a game-changer for the Spurs' future. He's a better defender than he used to be, and offensively he's just steady enough to build around. I honestly don't see how it can happen, but if anybody wants to convince me that there's even a snowball's chance, I'll work hard to believe it.

[scott]

Would do back flips if we somehow landed Lavine. Would assume the Seattle connection with DJM would help but will only go so far.

On another note, say we successfully trade Jak… then what? Could Thomas Bryant be a target?

[KingKev]

That would be a fantastic signing and if this team has confidence they could get it done it makes our lottery pick that much more flexible.

I haven’t looked into who would be takers for him outside of us.

I really hope he’s on our radar.

Exstatic has been on this one for awhile and I’m getting on the bandwagon. Small sample size but when given consistent minutes in both Phx and Indy this season he looked very intriguing. Looks more and more comfortable on the perimeter on both ends of the floor and could be a nice rim running target for DJ. 6’10 220ish. Very attainable. The great thing is the other teams with notable cap space are probably top 3 in the lottery and likely about to add a big in one of Banchero, Smith or Chet.

Teams with notable cap space that could offer him more than MLE:

- Detroit: he makes sense for them but they are likely adding one of the 3 mentioned above already
- Orlando: possibly adding one of the 3 mentioned above in the lottery and already have a huge logjam up front with Wendell Carter Jr, Returning Johnathan Issac, RFA Mo Bamba and Franz who could play some 4
- OKC: will have cap but at this point are they even looking to improve via free agency?
- Indy: will have cap space but can’t retain him for more than 4.5mm
- Memphis: should have adequate cap space so could be a potential suitor especially if Adams is moved

[KingKev]

60/40 is kinda shocking. I’d say 90% chance he resigns. Chicago has a much better supporting cast than SA. I see no motivation for Lavine to want to walk. It would take a monumental fuck up on Chicago’s part for him to not be back.

after DDR chokes and they flame out he may be a tad more inclined to move. If Lavine makes an all-nba team Chicago can offer him the super-max. That’ll be an interesting development to watch in the Lavine sweepstakes.

Edit: just noticed our greek friend made this same point already.

[The Truth #6]

I don't see how Chicago can keep their hopes alive without him. But I read an interview recently where he said that he needs to get paid what he deserves, and the implication was that it means a max deal.

The Bulls can give him 5/$210M. And that's if he doesn't make the All-NBA team - then he would be eligible for super-max which is close to 5/$250M currently.
The most other teams could offere would be around 4/$160M.

The only ways I can see the Spurs actually getting him would be if Chicago won't spring for a max deal, and he gets disgruntled and just wants to play for someone who he thinks values him. Or... if the Bulls can't/won't give him a max deal, so the Spurs arrange to give it to him through a sign and trade. I don't even want to think about all the salary matching considerations involved in that. Not to mention pick(s).

He would be a game-changer for the Spurs' future. He's a better defender than he used to be, and offensively he's just steady enough to build around. I honestly don't see how it can happen, but if anybody wants to convince me that there's even a snowball's chance, I'll work hard to believe it.

I wasn't endorsing this 60/40 scenario I heard on the podcast, but it did make me think about it more. He's probably the best star we could hope for in the free market, being in San Antonio. If nothing else, perhaps it's reassuring to know that Bulls' fans are just as knee jerk and emotionally labile as Spurs fans.

[KingKev]

I wasn't endorsing this 60/40 scenario I heard on the podcast, but it did make me think about it more. He's probably the best star we could hope for in the free market, being in San Antonio. If nothing else, perhaps it's reassuring to know that Bulls' fans are just as knee jerk and emotionally labile as Spurs fans.

Most fan bases are. Especially ones with champion lineage.

Lavine is not taking a penny off the table to leave Chicago for SA. Chicago is an incredible city but man it would probably be a smart move on his part. A DJ/Lavine backcourt with the ability to add another few foundational pieces over the next few years would be exciting.

[DAF86]

I heard a podcast a week ago hosted by Spurs and Bulls fans. The Bulls fan thought it was 60/40 they re-sign Lavine with the Spurs being the next obvious suitors. Pop knows Lavine from the Olympics. Also, the Bulls guy suggested there are only a few times that can max him out with maybe Detroit as one, but a less likely suitor. Anyway. Made me think Lavine was slightly more realistic than I initially thought.

Why would we want DeRozan's second banana?

[The Truth #6]

Why would we want DeRozan's second banana?

Because he's the better player and that may be the best star we could hope for in San Antonio, historically speaking. I'm not saying it's a perfect idea. I'm still trying to figure out his game a bit. But if he wanted to come here, it should definitely be considered.

[KingKev]

Why would we want DeRozan's second banana?

He is an ice cold scorer; 40% on decent 3pt volume with a full offensive arsenal. He is Booker east. His defensive ability wil grow leaps and bounds if we can sort our 3 and 4 positions on that side of the ball.

[The Truth #6]

Most fan bases are. Especially ones with champion lineage.

Lavine is not taking a penny off the table to leave Chicago for SA. Chicago is an incredible city but man it would probably be a smart move on his part. A DJ/Lavine backcourt with the ability to add another few foundational pieces over the next few years would be exciting.

And if there is any smoke, as always, it's probably agents trying to negotiate and get the best contract for their player. But I never thought Bulls didn't want him. So who knows? Anyway, overall, probably a non-issue and just the fanbases exploring theoretical scenarios.

[KingKev]

And if there is any smoke, as always, it's probably agents trying to negotiate and get the best contract for their player. But I never thought Bulls didn't want him. So who knows? Anyway, overall, probably a non-issue and just the fanbases exploring theoretical scenarios.

The Bulls have made some bonehead errors over the years but even they are not stupid enough not to offer Lavine the max.

[exstatic]

Just took a gander at the 2022 free agents on Spotrac and saw that Robert Covington and Batum are both UFA this summer.

I think Covington would be a good stopgap solution for the Spurs at the 4 spot. Whether you draft a Sochan or not. 36% career 3 point shooter (45% with the Clips this season) so he can spread the floor. Still an effective defender averages 1.5 blocks and 1.5 steals a game. Good size at 6’7 with a 7’3 wingspan. Gets deflections. The negatives would be will he give the same effort on a average/young team like the Spurs would be. Seems like he mailed it in a bit when he was with the Blazers and Rockets last couple years. Average to below average rebounder, but better than Keldon and way better than McDermott on the board.

May be a moot point if he and the Clippers want to run it back next season with a healthy Kawhi.

Batum is also an out and out 4-man these days given he’s lost a couple steps but in today’s game his 6’8 height is enough to play the 4 spot.

In terms of big fish theres not much out there other than Ayton. I rekon the Suns would match a max contract offer tbh but would be worth a try. Spurs would have to overpay to get him tbh. Not sure id go after him for a max price tag.

Beal has a player option but can’t see him coming to the Spurs.

Too old X 2.

[KingKev]

Too old X 2.

If we land Lavine and pull a top 4 pick they might be worth a gander. Otherwise HELL NO. Those guys are getting half to full MLE from playoff teams.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I wasn't endorsing this 60/40 scenario I heard on the podcast, but it did make me think about it more. He's probably the best star we could hope for in the free market, being in San Antonio. If nothing else, perhaps it's reassuring to know that Bulls' fans are just as knee jerk and emotionally labile as Spurs fans.


LOL. Fair enough.

I wasn't jamming you up about it. It's not out of the question that he could wind up feeling under-appreciated on that squad, and the Bulls mortgaged a lot to bring in DeRozan. That's got to limit their ability to add support pieces. But the amount of additional money he can get there would buy a whole lot of ego salve. The system is designed to keep players at home.

Would I like to see it? Yeah, most people would.

[exstatic]

Bobby Portis anyone? He's got a player option, is getting paid little so may be willing to cash in. He's 27, 6-10', can shoot, performs under pressure, not the greatest defender but willing to work and team oriented... we could do a lot worse than that.

Bobby Portis is a fucking Psycho who punched and hospitalized a teammate in Chicago, and isn’t 6’10unless he’s standing on a phone book.

[Ariel]

Bobby Portis is a fucking Psycho who punched and hospitalized a teammate in Chicago, and isn’t 6’10unless he’s standing on a phone book.
:lol Relax. You're not having a good day it seems.
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/?SeasonYear=2015-16
He measured at 6'9.5" barefoot, so he's actually OVER 6'10" by NBA standards (with shoes).
Hell, I'd say most NBA players are a good inch and a half shorter than their listings...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/25/bobby-portis-says-hes-always-been-seen-villain-even-before-he-broke-teammates-face/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/25/bobby-portis-says-hes-always-been-seen-villain-even-before-he-broke-teammates-face/)

In October 2017, Portis was with the Chicago Bulls when he got into a fight with then-teammate Nikola Mirotic during practice. According to guard Zach LaVine, who witnessed the incident, Portis “was not at fault” when he broke two bones in Mirotic’s face. He was required to serve an eight-game suspension.
If a 6'10" guy built like that punches you in the face, it's a direct trip to the hospital. But Lavine endorses him, and he's beloved by Milwaukee fans and teammates... he's not Sprewell that tried to strangle his coach... now THAT'S a psycho...

[KingKev]

:lol Relax. You're not having a good day it seems.
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/?SeasonYear=2015-16
He measured at 6'9.5" barefoot, so he's actually OVER 6'10" by NBA standards (with shoes).
Hell, I'd say most NBA players are a good inch and a half shorter than their listings...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/25/bobby-portis-says-hes-always-been-seen-villain-even-before-he-broke-teammates-face/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/03/25/bobby-portis-says-hes-always-been-seen-villain-even-before-he-broke-teammates-face/)

If a 6'10" guy built like that punches you in the face, it's a direct trip to the hospital. But Lavine endorses him, and he's beloved by Milwaukee fans and teammates... he's not Sprewell that tried to strangle his coach... now THAT'S a psycho...

Am I the only one who wants a guy who might punch a teammate in the face in the spirit of competition?? Imagine what he might do to an opponent? It’s not like he was sexting his wife.

Also. Spree coulda been our Rodman on the way to a couple of threepeats…
Popovich always had a hard-on for him. He probably likes getting choked. Those whino-lefties are into some freak sh!t!!

[Leetonidas]

Mirotic deserved it tbh. Sign me up for Portis. He ain't leaving Milwaukee though

[JPB]

Jordan punched a teammate too, tbh.

[scott]

I get that some of these guys are older and might not fit the long term time-line, but the steam still needs vets... we can't have a bunch of kids on the team, that isn't a recipe for success.

Dream off-season: land Top 4, get Banchero or Smith, sign Levine, trade TOR pick for a future 1st, take a flier with the BOS pick, sign a vet like Portis or Covington, go from play-in to play-offs in one season with some momentum to the future.

[KingKev]

I get that some of these guys are older and might not fit the long term time-line, but the steam still needs vets... we can't have a bunch of kids on the team, that isn't a recipe for success.

Dream off-season: land Top 4, get Banchero or Smith, sign Levine, trade TOR pick for a future 1st, take a flier with the BOS pick, sign a vet like Portis or Covington, go from play-in to play-offs in one season with some momentum to the future.

Those vets only make sense on a 1-2yr discounted contract or if the wetdream you outlined above (that most of us fantasize about) come true.

[objective]

If the Spurs can move up in the lottery and get one of those premium bigs, I could see that being enough to get Lavine to take a serious look at the Spurs if Chicago doesn't give the 5th year Max.

The Spurs would have a good case for a much brighter future than Chicago

Chicago doesn't have their own 23 or 25 first rounders, don't have any 2nds until 2026. They do have a lotto protected first from Portland in the future though. Still, they're on the short side of ammo to improve or get off bad salary

They're in a bad cap situation with no foreseeable cap room if they max Lavine and they have DeRozan and Vucevic over 30 and bound to decline.

Lonzo has a career of injury issues. My guy Patrick Williams hasn't broken out and also seems to often be hurt. Vucevic when his contract is up could be a nightmare.

Spurs would look pretty good in comparison.

[objective]

I get that some of these guys are older and might not fit the long term time-line, but the steam still needs vets... we can't have a bunch of kids on the team, that isn't a recipe for success.

Dream off-season: land Top 4, get Banchero or Smith, sign Levine, trade TOR pick for a future 1st, take a flier with the BOS pick, sign a vet like Portis or Covington, go from play-in to play-offs in one season with some momentum to the future.

Sounds good to me, but I think it Lavine is signed outright then they would just have the Room Exception to sign a vet and it might not be enough for either of those vets.

[KingKev]

Sounds good to me, but I think it Lavine is signed outright then they would just have the Room Exception to sign a vet and it might not be enough for either of those vets.

We have 40mm in cap and very movable contracts in JRich, Collins and McDougal. Jak is also an easy lever to pull when it comes down to it. There are many reasons this fantasy won’t come true but cap space won’t be it. Also the main salary exceptions are not available to teams UNDER the cap.

[BacktoBasics]

I don’t know Chicago’s tax laws but a max here would probably net about as much as a super max in a state with a high tax rate. I still don’t see it and I absolutely wouldn’t sign and trade for a super max contract. They’re one of the worst things this league has seen.

[KingKev]

I don’t know Chicago’s tax laws but a max here would probably net about as much as a super max in a state with a high tax rate. I still don’t see it and I absolutely wouldn’t sign and trade for a super max contract. They’re one of the worst things this league has seen.

Their state tax is <10% I believe. I think taxes are based on where the revenue is earned so that marginal difference is actually only for 41 games. I’ve never once heard state tax been brought up in free agency.

[DAF86]

I get that some of these guys are older and might not fit the long term time-line, but the steam still needs vets... we can't have a bunch of kids on the team, that isn't a recipe for success.

Dream off-season: land Top 4, get Banchero or Smith, sign Levine, trade TOR pick for a future 1st, take a flier with the BOS pick, sign a vet like Portis or Covington, go from play-in to play-offs in one season with some momentum to the future.

Murray
Lavine
Vassell
Covington
Poeltl

Jones
Primo
Keldon
Banchero
Collins

Playoffs team?

[KingKev]

Murray
Lavine
Vassell
Covington
Poeltl

Jones
Primo
Keldon
Banchero
Collins

Playoffs team?

Lol Keldon and Banchero would start and yes that is a playoff team.

[mystargtr34]

It’s still a pipe dream at this stage but if we are playing the game I would offer Lavine the max if I’m the Spurs. He has flaws obviously and isn’t a true franchise player but the Spurs seriously need a talent injection and a go to scorer like Lavine. And you have to overpay to lure these types of you are the Spurs. You can build a good team around him. You’d have a good secondary scorer in DeJounte who can average 20 a night. Your team isn’t going anywhere if DJM is your first offensive option let’s be honest. Good defensive potential (Jak, DJM, Vassell, hopefully Sochan), slashing (Vassell and Keldon). 3 point shooting potential is there with Keldon, Vassell and McDermott off the bench.

[mystargtr34]

Murray
Lavine
Vassell
Covington
Poeltl

Jones
Primo
Keldon
Banchero
Collins

Playoffs team?

~50 win team imo and likely second round exit but with plenty of room for growth. Def makes the playoffs as a 4-6 seed.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Their state tax is <10% I believe. I think taxes are based on where the revenue is earned so that marginal difference is actually only for 41 games. I’ve never once heard state tax been brought up in free agency.


Oh, it gets brought up most years. I've never seen a free agent decision made based on income net of taxes. Strangely, the agents' cut is based on gross, not net. Just coincidence, I'm sure.

It does make you question the state of accountancy in sports, though.

[scott]

Oh, it gets brought up most years. I've never seen a free agent decision made based on income net of taxes. Strangely, the agents' cut is based on gross, not net. Just coincidence, I'm sure.

It does make you question the state of accountancy in sports, though.

My guess is that it never drives a decision because a lot of high tax states are desirable places to live and low tax states are less desirable. I live in HI now, and pay lots of extra income tax. Would I trade those taxes to go back to living in Texas? LOL no.

Also, not to delve into the realm of the politics forum, but low-Tax Texas is a myth. Yes, it has no state income tax, but it has one of the highest property tax and sales tax rates in the nation. The gummint still gets theirs, just in different ways. Back to my own personal example below, the savings I get on property tax on my home in HI (which costs 2x as much as my old home in TX) is greater than the additional income tax I pay.

[scott]

Murray
Lavine
Vassell
Covington
Poeltl

Jones
Primo
Keldon
Banchero
Collins

Playoffs team?

Sounds like an awesome team. My guess is Banchero would start, but with Pop who knows. Keldon probably still starts over Vassell, but thats because I think Vassell would add more to the second unit than being 3rd or 4th option in the starting lineup (which is where Keldon probably needs to be)

[offset formation]

Murray
Lavine
Vassell
Covington
Poeltl

Jones
Primo
Keldon
Banchero
Collins

Playoffs team?

Imma die on this hill. Primo ain't a 2 guard. He'd be a 3rd team 3 as of now.

[Atl Spur]

Imma die on this hill. Primo ain't a 2 guard. He'd be a 3rd team 3 as of now.

Get off that hill homie…..

[buttsR4rebounding]

Their state tax is <10% I believe. I think taxes are based on where the revenue is earned so that marginal difference is actually only for 41 games. I’ve never once heard state tax been brought up in free agency.

Illinois has a flat rate of 4.95% so the difference would be about $1 million. It makes a much bigger difference in NY and California. I believe NY’s top rate is around 16%.

[JPB]

It’s still a pipe dream at this stage but if we are playing the game I would offer Lavine the max if I’m the Spurs. He has flaws obviously and isn’t a true franchise player but the Spurs seriously need a talent injection and a go to scorer like Lavine. And you have to overpay to lure these types of you are the Spurs. You can build a good team around him. You’d have a good secondary scorer in DeJounte who can average 20 a night. Your team isn’t going anywhere if DJM is your first offensive option let’s be honest. Good defensive potential (Jak, DJM, Vassell, hopefully Sochan), slashing (Vassell and Keldon). 3 point shooting potential is there with Keldon, Vassell and McDermott off the bench.

End of story for me. Not because Spurs need star power that you should throw the max at the first good player coming around. Max is supposed to precisely be kept and given to franchise type of players...

[CGD]

Did Marvin Bagley continue to suck it up in DET or did he show any signs?

[offset formation]

Get off that hill homie…..

When Primo can demonstrate he's a worthy ball handler that wont have amongst the league's highest TO rates, I'll consider it. Until then, he's straight 3 and D.

[XDT76]

When Primo can demonstrate he's a worthy ball handler that wont have amongst the league's highest TO rates, I'll consider it. Until then, he's straight 3 and D.

As of now he is still some way off to be called a 3 and D

[Seventyniner]

When Primo can demonstrate he's a worthy ball handler that wont have amongst the league's highest TO rates, I'll consider it. Until then, he's straight 3 and D.

Dejounte Murray gives me cause for optimism on this front. Murray's TOV% was a horrendous 22.7 in his first season and was still bad in his next two (16.6, 15.4). He has greatly improved in that area, posting a sterling 10.2 last season and 11.8 this season.

Primo's was 16.6 this season. He won't be a primary ball handler like Murray, but I wouldn't write off his potential to cut down on the turnovers yet.

I'm much more concerned about his shooting tbh.

Edit: changed would to wouldn't

[XDT76]

Dejounte Murray gives me cause for optimism on this front. Murray's TOV% was a horrendous 22.7 in his first season and was still bad in his next two (16.6, 15.4). He has greatly improved in that area, posting a sterling 10.2 last season and 11.8 this season.

Primo's was 16.6 this season. He won't be a primary ball handler like Murray, but I would write off his potential to cut down on the turnovers yet.

I'm much more concerned about his shooting tbh.

His shooting could be due to him rebuilding his shot. However he has terrible TOV% even in the g league couple with average handling and not really showing ability to go pass his man. His current ceiling is 3 and D at best.

[offset formation]

Dejounte Murray gives me cause for optimism on this front. Murray's TOV% was a horrendous 22.7 in his first season and was still bad in his next two (16.6, 15.4). He has greatly improved in that area, posting a sterling 10.2 last season and 11.8 this season.

Primo's was 16.6 this season. He won't be a primary ball handler like Murray, but I wouldn't write off his potential to cut down on the turnovers yet.

I'm much more concerned about his shooting tbh.

Edit: changed would to wouldn't

Correct, Dejounte was also a turnover waiting to happen. But to soften out all those turnovers, he's always been able to at least cross up a defender and make it to the bucket, when he wasn't coughing it up, since his rookie year.

*That* made it more acceptable for Dejounte to have a higher TO rate. Whereas with Josh, he drives into the paint only to get clogged up and force some ridiculous pocket pass in traffic or gets blocked.

Point being, I'm no where near as inclined to give Primo that patience because he's simply not a scoring threat against set defenses in the paint. Meaning, he's no guard.

He's 3 and D. And clearly a work in progress even there, as XD noted above.

[DAF86]

Lol Keldon and Banchero would start and yes that is a playoff team.

We would get killed defensively with Lavine, Keldon and Banchero on the starting lineup.

[DAF86]

Sounds like an awesome team. My guess is Banchero would start, but with Pop who knows. Keldon probably still starts over Vassell, but thats because I think Vassell would add more to the second unit than being 3rd or 4th option in the starting lineup (which is where Keldon probably needs to be)

I think Vassell fits better on the SL as the 3 and D guy, while Keldon could be the main option coming off the bench.

[KingKev]

We would get killed defensively with Lavine, Keldon and Banchero on the starting lineup.

Better than Keldon, McDougal and Walker/Vassell/Primo

[DAF86]

Better than Keldon, McDougal and Walker/Vassell/Primo

Vassell >>>

[MannyIsGod]

My guess is that it never drives a decision because a lot of high tax states are desirable places to live and low tax states are less desirable. I live in HI now, and pay lots of extra income tax. Would I trade those taxes to go back to living in Texas? LOL no.

Also, not to delve into the realm of the politics forum, but low-Tax Texas is a myth. Yes, it has no state income tax, but it has one of the highest property tax and sales tax rates in the nation. The gummint still gets theirs, just in different ways. Back to my own personal example below, the savings I get on property tax on my home in HI (which costs 2x as much as my old home in TX) is greater than the additional income tax I pay.

Yeah we happily pay greater income taxes to be free of Texas. Never going back.

[CGD]

My guess is that it never drives a decision because a lot of high tax states are desirable places to live and low tax states are less desirable. I live in HI now, and pay lots of extra income tax. Would I trade those taxes to go back to living in Texas? LOL no.

Also, not to delve into the realm of the politics forum, but low-Tax Texas is a myth. Yes, it has no state income tax, but it has one of the highest property tax and sales tax rates in the nation. The gummint still gets theirs, just in different ways. Back to my own personal example below, the savings I get on property tax on my home in HI (which costs 2x as much as my old home in TX) is greater than the additional income tax I pay.

Spot on, absolutely a myth in Texas given property tax situation. I wonder if Florida has a similar issue though as a non-income state since it seems people DO seem to move there for lower taxes (and weather).

[mystargtr34]

Yeah we happily pay greater income taxes to be free of Texas. Never going back.

I thought Texas was the place to be in the US? (I’m from Australia).

[mo7888]

I thought Texas was the place to be in the US? (I’m from Australia).

It is... there are many places that are "the place to be" depending on what kind of lifestyle you like to live. For instance, I love hiking and biking so I live in NW Arkansas. It's loaded with trails and is a destination spot for people who enjoy those activities. It's also turning into a smaller (but growing) Austin like area with 4 real seasons. If you like great beaches then Florida is your spot...So, like it said, there are many "the place to be" areas...

[Ocotillo]

It is... there are many places that are "the place to be" depending on what kind of lifestyle you like to live. For instance, I love hiking and biking so I live in NW Arkansas. It's loaded with trails and is a destination spot for people who enjoy those activities. It's also turning into a smaller (but growing) Austin like area with 4 real seasons. If you like great beaches then Florida is your spot...So, like it said, there are many "the place to be" areas...

My job takes me there once in awhile and it is beautiful (hiking is my thing). I am having a devil of a time convincing my wife we should go there on vacay though as she thinks of the Ozarks and immediately thinks of like the Deliverance crowd lives there.

[mo7888]

My job takes me there once in awhile and it is beautiful (hiking is my thing). I am having a devil of a time convincing my wife we should go there on vacay though as she thinks of the Ozarks and immediately thinks of like the Deliverance crowd lives there.

Tell her you've gotta get up into the Missouri ozarks or about 100 miles east of NWA to find the deliverance crowd.... probably stay at 21C hotel and museum right off the square...everything is walkable... she'll be sold...

[MannyIsGod]

I thought Texas was the place to be in the US? (I’m from Australia).

Eh, there are a lot of people moving there because of low property values and because its warm all year around, but there's a reason the property values in most of the state are lower than everywhere else and its not because those places are better. The heat is oppressive like 6 months out of the year, the politics get more and more insane each year, and none of the cities is at all walkable. But you can (in most places) get a giant house for relatively little and the winters are nice if you don't like snow. Plus tex mex. I do miss the fuck out of breakfast tacos.

[Drom John]

Their state tax is <10% I believe. I think taxes are based on where the revenue is earned so that marginal difference is actually only for 41 games. I’ve never once heard state tax been brought up in free agency.

It is my understanding that Dodgers matched the Braves offer for Freddie Freeman, then tacked on the state tax.

[rascal]

Eh, there are a lot of people moving there because of low property values and because its warm all year around, but there's a reason the property values in most of the state are lower than everywhere else and its not because those places are better. The heat is oppressive like 6 months out of the year, the politics get more and more insane each year, and none of the cities is at all walkable. But you can (in most places) get a giant house for relatively little and the winters are nice if you don't like snow. Plus tex mex. I do miss the fuck out of breakfast tacos.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of living in Texas. Oppressive heat from early May until early October. Lived there and like the northeast, New England better.

[SAGirl]

There’s no other “whole” off-season thread so I’ll drop this here:
1517528924078723072

[PhantomDashCam]

There’s no other “whole” off-season thread so I’ll drop this here:
1517528924078723072

1490145313100910592

Charlotte fans seemed to absolutely despise him by the end of the season. He refused to play his two first rounders meaningful minutes all year.

I read that Kupchak their GM may also be on his way out but it sounded more like it would be his choice if such a thing came to fruition.

[SAGirl]

The plot thickens. That’s interesting. ^

[Mr. Body]

1490145313100910592

Charlotte fans seemed to absolutely despise him by the end of the season. He refused to play his two first rounders meaningful minutes all year.

I read that Kupchak their GM may also be on his way out but it sounded more like it would be his choice if such a thing came to fruition.

Didn't Bouknight get kicked out of a UConn game cuz he was acting a fool? Imagine going back to your university and getting tossed out of a basketball game because you're an asshole. Bouknight has some issues.

[PhantomDashCam]

Didn't Bouknight get kicked out of a UConn game cuz he was acting a fool? Imagine going back to your university and getting tossed out of a basketball game because you're an asshole. Bouknight has some issues.

Yeah that happened alright.
He was supposedly warned by the ref to stay off his phone multiple times during the game. He was able to sit in the student section though after the ejection.

I’m not condoning his behaviour by any means but Hornets fans knew their team wasn’t good enough around the All-Star break yet he still refused to play his rookies meaningful minutes at any time.

For example - In their play-in game against the Hawks, which they lost by 29 points and trailed by 30+ points at multiple points in the 4th; the rookies didn’t check into the game at all.

[Ariel]

Didn't Bouknight get kicked out of a UConn game cuz he was acting a fool? Imagine going back to your university and getting tossed out of a basketball game because you're an asshole. Bouknight has some issues.
He wasn't all that good on the court with the Hornets either. I don't think Bouknight not playing had anything to do with them letting Borrego go.

[rascal]

He wasn't all that good on the court with the Hornets either. I don't think Bouknight not playing had anything to do with them letting Borrego go.

So you think this might make them more willing to make a trade with their draft picks or less likely? Still think the Spurs need to target one of those picks from Charlotte.

[rascal]

There needs to be mutual respect between Coach and Player.

Looks like neither respected the other here as I'm sure coach said something out of line.

[Ariel]

So you think this might make them more willing to make a trade with their draft picks or less likely? Still think the Spurs need to target one of those picks from Charlotte.
Depends on which way they're going. If they want immediate results, then a trade for Poeltl can be more likely. But just as easily he might not appeal to the new coach, or they may make a strategic decision to continue building through the draft, so who knows.

[PhantomDashCam]

He wasn't all that good on the court with the Hornets either. I don't think Bouknight not playing had anything to do with them letting Borrego go.

https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/news/james-bouknights-rookie-campaign


…Now after a full 82 game season, Bouknight has only logged 302 minutes for Charlotte spending most of his time in Greensboro or on the Hornets bench in street clothes...

Bouknight's lack of minutes has been a constant debate among Hornets fans this season. Many have expressed their disappointment in James Borrego's inability to find him playing time. Bouknight was a highly remarked talent that Charlotte fans were excited to see alongside LaMelo Ball but after a full season, he’s played the 4th least minutes among 2021 first-round rookies…


We’re talking about the 10th pick here for a team that didn’t make the playoffs. Unsurprisingly, Kai Jones is second on that list.

[JPB]

It is... there are many places that are "the place to be" depending on what kind of lifestyle you like to live. For instance, I love hiking and biking so I live in NW Arkansas. It's loaded with trails and is a destination spot for people who enjoy those activities. It's also turning into a smaller (but growing) Austin like area with 4 real seasons. If you like great beaches then Florida is your spot...So, like it said, there are many "the place to be" areas...

If we're talking "the place to be" as in, the place where you should be because that's the place to be for superficial people who wanna feel their life is so great cos they're in the place to be... Then LA was the place to be 30 to 20 years ago, then NY, then Vegas 10 to 5 years ago...Then now if you wanna fell like you're in the place to be in the middle of other people who came here for nothing else than being in the place to be... that's probablly Miami, specially for 20 something girls from all over the world and pretty much every single hoe on the planet (rich, retired american daddies also packing there too may have something to do with it).

[SAGirl]

https://www.si.com/nba/hornets/news/james-bouknights-rookie-campaign



We’re talking about the 10th pick here for a team that didn’t make the playoffs. Unsurprisingly, Kai Jones is second on that list.
There’s something strange there like Borrego being in the hot seat already. Was this the final season of his contract? So he may have felt he was going for the best possible immediate outcome vs developing players in which he spent no time. It’s interesting that they would be so focused on outcome with a team so young still and Lamelo barely in his sophomore season.

[Ariel]

We’re talking about the 10th pick here for a team that didn’t make the playoffs. Unsurprisingly, Kai Jones is second on that list.
That's about 10 MPG over 31 games. Not much playing time, true, but if making the playoffs is your absolute priority, there's no much room for a rookie shooting under 35% from the field.

[PhantomDashCam]

There’s something strange there like Borrego being in the hot seat already. Was this the final season of his contract? So he may have felt he was going for the best possible immediate outcome vs developing players in which he spent no time. It’s interesting that they would be so focused on outcome with a team so young still and Lamelo barely in his sophomore season.

Spot on SAGirl.
From what I understand, Borrego’s contract extension was just about to begin next season, so this had to be a case of mismanaged assets on his part.
There we’re rumblings of Gordon Hayward wanting out too, even before his season was derailed by injuries.

As an unashamed Kai Jones fanboy, he recently ‘liked’ a couple of fan Twitter posts that suggested Borrego doesn’t know what he’s doing or words to that effect. He tried to rescind these likes but the damage was done.
The posts were already Screen shotted by Charlotte fans who were very much of the mindset “He’s just like us” and “Do you know how dodgy you have to be for Kai Jones not to like you…”

After watching how disorganised their G-League team was, which is usually running similar stuff to the NBA affiliates, (as you probably already know); it just seemed like there was definitely something awry in Charlotte.

[ZeusWillJudge]

There’s no other “whole” off-season thread so I’ll drop this here:
1517528924078723072


Borrego, whatever faults he may or may not have, got hamstrung by management - starting with losing Kemba Walker after his first year. That was about money, not the coach. I honestly don't know enough about Bouknight, but I'm not surprised that a team with LaMelo Ball might have some problems with the coach-player relationships. If Borrego has any weakness in that area (I don't know), that has to have been one of the worst possible locations to land. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ball turn out to be a career coach-killer.

Pop took on Carlesimo after the Sprewell debacle, and let him get his feet back under him. I would think Pop would take Borrego back. Whether he would ultimately be a good head coach, especially after this? Coin toss.

Thanks for posting, SAGirl. I hadn't seen the announcement yet.

[Atl Spur]

Yuk! They seem to just have a toxic culture.

[ragas]

Spot on SAGirl.
From what I understand, Borrego’s contract extension was just about to begin next season, so this had to be a case of mismanaged assets on his part.
There we’re rumblings of Gordon Hayward wanting out too, even before his season was derailed by injuries.

As an unashamed Kai Jones fanboy, he recently ‘liked’ a couple of fan Twitter posts that suggested Borrego doesn’t know what he’s doing or words to that effect. He tried to rescind these likes but the damage was done.
The posts were already Screen shotted by Charlotte fans who were very much of the mindset “He’s just like us” and “Do you know how dodgy you have to be for Kai Jones not to like you…”

After watching how disorganised their G-League team was, which is usually running similar stuff to the NBA affiliates, (as you probably already know); it just seemed like there was definitely something awry in Charlotte.

Kai Jones doesn‘t seem to be a guy who fits into the Spurs culture if that‘s true. Given that Borrego mismanaged their roster - you can‘t act like that, especially as a rookie.

[R. DeMurre]

I think Borrego has 2 years left on his contract... man, the money that NBA teams throw around! I guess it's time to head to Italy for a few months and relax with lots of cappuccinos in the morning and nightly bottles of wine. Not a bad life.