Castle ROTY watch

[ismael-robert]

Knecht also pooped the bed so they all fell

[RC_Drunkford]

Way too early as some of these rooks will hit the rookie wall at some point this season

[LeBowen]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-december-11-2024-edition

Still second, even though they say he could've easily been 1A.
I actually think it's Castle's to lose because Nurse is on the hot seat and is already giving less minutes to McCain.

[Mr. Body]

If Castle played for LAL he'd win the ROY already.

[ginobilized]

Castle has been so solid, consistent (for a rookie) and played within his skills, it's hard to think that he would decline. He'll hit the wall, at some point.
My only fear is that he gets replaced in the starting lineup and that hurts his campaign. Of course, it could help his stats, but, ROY goes to starters 9 out of 10 times.

[DAF86]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-december-11-2024-edition

Still second, even though they say he could've easily been 1A.
I actually think it's Castle's to lose because Nurse is on the hot seat and is already giving less minutes to McCain.

I think Wells will leapfrog everybody if the Grizzlies remain top 4.

[baseline bum]

Castle has been so solid, consistent (for a rookie) and played within his skills, it's hard to think that he would decline. He'll hit the wall, at some point.
My only fear is that he gets replaced in the starting lineup and that hurts his campaign. Of course, it could help his stats, but, ROY goes to starters 9 out of 10 times.

I think Julian will go to the bench and Devin will be starting at the SF soon enough. Steph has been way too good in the starting lineup to get demoted back to the bench.

[LeBowen]

I think Julian will go to the bench and Devin will be starting at the SF soon enough. Steph has been way too good in the starting lineup to get demoted back to the bench.

Our defense will take a hit because Champagnie is noticably bigger than Devin, but I agree that Devin needs to start.
The actual decision when it comes to the starting lineup is between Castle and Jeremy. Can't have both in the starting lineup, would ruin the spacing.

I think it'll eventually come down to two options:
CP3/Devin/Castle/Barnes/Wemby
CP3/Devin/Champ/Jeremy/Wemby

Anyhow, as long as Tre is out, Castle will spend a lot of time with the bench unit because we have noone else to run the floor.
And I'd like to see how things play out when CP3 eventually rests for a game or two.

[baseline bum]

Our defense will take a hit because Champagnie is noticably bigger than Devin, but I agree that Devin needs to start.
The actual decision when it comes to the starting lineup is between Castle and Jeremy. Can't have both in the starting lineup, would ruin the spacing.

I think it'll eventually come down to two options:
CP3/Devin/Castle/Barnes/Wemby
CP3/Devin/Champ/Jeremy/Wemby

Anyhow, as long as Tre is out, Castle will spend a lot of time with the bench unit because we have noone else to run the floor.
And I'd like to see how things play out when CP3 eventually rests for a game or two.

We'll have to see how it plays out with Jeremy vs HB for the PF slot. I'm not going to write it off without seeing it given how much better a shooter Devin is than Julian, not to mention how much better Devin is off the dribble. Hopefully they can get away with it.

[John B]

We'll have to see how it plays out with Jeremy vs HB for the PF slot. I'm not going to write it off without seeing it given how much better a shooter Devin is than Julian, not to mention how much better Devin is off the dribble. Hopefully they can get away with it.

Devin starting will take away touches from Castle, directly lowering Castle stats I believe. Strategy wise it’s better for Devin leading the bench while Champ has become an ideal 3&D

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Our defense will take a hit because Champagnie is noticably bigger than Devin, but I agree that Devin needs to start.
The actual decision when it comes to the starting lineup is between Castle and Jeremy. Can't have both in the starting lineup, would ruin the spacing.

I think it'll eventually come down to two options:
CP3/Devin/Castle/Barnes/Wemby
CP3/Devin/Champ/Jeremy/Wemby

Anyhow, as long as Tre is out, Castle will spend a lot of time with the bench unit because we have noone else to run the floor.
And I'd like to see how things play out when CP3 eventually rests for a game or two.
https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MjA5NTM4NDk1OTE4NjQ2OTM0/460236159_834395632192666_5914097079197228647_n.jp g

[LeBowen]

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MjA5NTM4NDk1OTE4NjQ2OTM0/460236159_834395632192666_5914097079197228647_n.jp g

https://i.imgur.com/njR1ctT.png
Guess who?

Anyhow, Garland/Mitchell duo is at 16 attempts per game combined and they make more than 40%.
Wemby/Champ combine for 16 attempts and are barely at 35%.

We're 7th in attempts and 21st in 3pt percentage.
Cavs are 4th in attempts and 11th in percentage.
Big difference, we can't afford to have both Castle and Jeremy with their current level of shooting.

[BatManu20]

Castle has a real shot at ROY now if he makes a push for it and can stay healthy.

1868051411747098659

[LeBowen]

Doesn't even need a push, it will be no contest when Grizzlies get healthy and Wells' role is reduced.

[baseline bum]

Castle has a real shot at ROY now if he makes a push for it and can stay healthy.

1868051411747098659

Damn they really are trying to capture the Flagg

[Leetonidas]

Wow, sucks for Philly. They're cursed it seems like. Good news for our rook though. As long as he keeps doing what he's been doing he should have ROY on lock

[Bruno]

Latest Vegas ROTY odds:
Castle: +130
Knecht: +220
Missi: +650
Risacher: +950
Sarr: +2400
Wells: +2400

[BatManu20]

Damn they really are trying to capture the Flagg

Might as well at this point tbh. Their season has already been derailed by injuries.

What’s funny is Paul George leaving the Clippers to sign a 4-Year Max Contract with Philly cause he was tired if all the injuries there and wanted to finally contend for a Championship, and the team he signs with immediately loses all their best players into injury and now have a worse record than the Clippers :lol

[DAF86]

Doesn't even need a push, it will be no contest when Grizzlies get healthy and Wells' role is reduced.

Not if Castle is sent back to the bench.

[timtonymanu]

Might as well at this point tbh. Their season has already been derailed by injuries.

What’s funny is Paul George leaving the Clippers to sign a 4-Year Max Contract with Philly cause he was tired if all the injuries there and wanted to finally contend for a Championship, and the team he signs with immediately loses all their best players into injury and now have a worse record than the Clippers :lol

I know Philly had no other options but it was such a terrible move. Giving a max contract to a guy who also gets injured a lot. Paul George thinking he’s still worth max money too :lol.

[CGD]

Doesn't even need a push, it will be no contest when Grizzlies get healthy and Wells' role is reduced.

This will be the narrative: Castillo ONLY won because McCain went down. Which is unfair since Esteban was on track to overtake him as a matter of course.

[baseline bum]

Might as well at this point tbh. Their season has already been derailed by injuries.

What’s funny is Paul George leaving the Clippers to sign a 4-Year Max Contract with Philly cause he was tired if all the injuries there and wanted to finally contend for a Championship, and the team he signs with immediately loses all their best players into injury and now have a worse record than the Clippers :lol

Nah he just wanted the fourth year

[John B]

Latest Vegas ROTY odds:
Castle: +130
Knecht: +220
Missi: +650
Risacher: +950
Sarr: +2400
Wells: +2400

Should’ve put money on Castle.

[Mr. Body]

Latest Vegas ROTY odds:
Castle: +130
Knecht: +220
Missi: +650
Risacher: +950
Sarr: +2400
Wells: +2400

A certain little white dude from Kentucky nowhere to be seen.

[CGD]

A certain little white dude from Kentucky nowhere to be seen.

To be fair, neither is his 124lbs Kentucky running mate.

[Das Texan]

To be fair, neither is his 124lbs Kentucky running mate.

he gained weight?

[diego]

Sorry but, is it really in the spurs interest for castle to win Roy? Wouldn't that just complicate ego/contract stuff down the line? I guess it kind of forces the coaching staff to play him more but, beyond fans/castles pride i don't see what the benefit is, seems if anything it's better to put a chip on his shoulder and have less media/league attention/offers..

[mudyez]

Sorry but, is it really in the spurs interest for castle to win Roy? Wouldn't that just complicate ego/contract stuff down the line? I guess it kind of forces the coaching staff to play him more but, beyond fans/castles pride i don't see what the benefit is, seems if anything it's better to put a chip on his shoulder and have less media/league attention/offers..

I don't see it as a negative, if he starts off with something to show for...giving him the idea that the team is fitting for him (not that thats not obvious). If a ROY award messes him up, he is spoiled anyway. But I don't get the feeling, he is like that.

I'd be happy for him to earn it...but it also feels weird, if someone else beyond our three #1 gets one.

That said...it's a pretty poor ROY race. It wouldn't be MCW like but in all honesty, not that much more at this point.

[SupremeGuy]

He's the second best players on the team as a rookie. He's going to get paid. I'm not sure how other rookies are doing but Castle is balling out.

[Uriel]

Latest Vegas ROTY odds:
Castle: +130
Knecht: +220
Missi: +650
Risacher: +950
Sarr: +2400
Wells: +2400
How have Risacher and Sarr been playing this season? Has Castle really been playing better than them?

[Uriel]

More interestingly, if the re-draft were re-done tomorrow, would Castle be the #1 overall pick?

[John B]

More interestingly, if the re-draft were re-done tomorrow, would Castle be the #1 overall pick?

Both Risacher and Sarr were picked for their high ceiling. Castle dropped to 4th because of his questionable shooting. Because had he showed more shooting consistency, I think Castle could’ve gone number 1. All things good him going to our pick instead.

[Splits]

Castle has a real shot at ROY now if he makes a push for it and can stay healthy.

1868051411747098659

:blah:tongue:smokin:smokin:smokin:smokin:flypig:fl ypig:flypig:flypig:flypig:flypig:monkey:monkey:mon key:monkey:monkey:monkey:monkey:cheer:cheer:cheer: cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer

[ismael-robert]

Risacher n sarr also picked for height...if he ever gets more rbs n blocks than them I'd be surprised...again u put any of top 3 or mccain maybe wells on spurs n they may have near all star numbers

[exstatic]

How have Risacher and Sarr been playing this season? Has Castle really been playing better than them?

Sarr is garbage.

[CGD]

Both Risacher and Sarr were picked for their high ceiling. Castle dropped to 4th because of his questionable shooting. Because had he showed more shooting consistency, I think Castle could’ve gone number 1. All things good him going to our pick instead.

Agree on Sarr, but not sure that’s the reason ZR was chosen. IIRC he was seen as the most plug and play/safe pick, so more of a higher starting floor prospect than a higher ceiling potential one.

I do think Wiz will regret passing on Castle. That’s who many of there fans wanted.

[Bruno]

Risacher has played fine but he isn't shooting well and it's a big issue with shooting being his main offensive strength.

Sarr has shown some flashes but he has been mostly bad. As expected, he isn't ready. What strikes me is how Wizards are atrocious this year. Their +/- is -15.9 which is crazy bad. Their young players are too raw to play a major role at the NBA level and their main vets, Kuzma and Poole, aren't the kind of players that makes players around them better. They may be even worse than the 10-72 Sixers.

[Mr. Body]

Sarr has been sort of alright, at least on defense. Don't think he'll ever be worth a #2 pick and salary. He's also coming from a wildly overrated NBL league that may be G-League level in developing young players. Offensively he's not good at all so far. Somehow he got slapped with a "good outside shooter" label without ever being a good outside shooter.

Risacher has also been an awful shooter. But he was always a really poor shooter. It was this single stretch early last year that established him as a supposedly good one, which he may not be. I think he'll be fine as a player, but not worth a #1 pick.

I'm learning to take my time evaluating new players. This draft class doesn't look as bad as expected. Or, at least there are flashes here or there. It's just that some of these lottery guys have not looked ready at all.

[mudyez]

:blah:tongue:smokin:smokin:smokin:smokin:flypig:fl ypig:flypig:flypig:flypig:flypig:monkey:monkey:mon key:monkey:monkey:monkey:monkey:cheer:cheer:cheer: cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer:cheer

Careful! Karma may strike back.

[DAF86]

Not if Castle is sent back to the bench.

Welp, so much for Stephon's RoY chances.

[R. DeMurre]

Yeah, Castle really looked like a rookie tonight.

[BatManu20]

1868711912684634371

[BatManu20]

Still really early. We’ll see how the season plays out. ROY is definitely up for grabs though.

[scott]

Kicking myself at passing at the opportunity to get him at +1800. Had the bet queued up but decided against it at the last minute. Typical move by me, tbh, I'm a horrible sports bettor :lol

[baseline bum]

Kicking myself at passing at the opportunity to get him at +1800. Had the bet queued up but decided against it at the last minute. Typical move by me, tbh, I'm a horrible sports bettor :lol

I quit sports betting after putting money on the Spurs to win Game 5 of the 2004 series vs the Lakers. You thought you felt like shit when Fisher hit that bullshit shot, try losing money on it too. :lol

[Seventyniner]

Kicking myself at passing at the opportunity to get him at +1800. Had the bet queued up but decided against it at the last minute. Typical move by me, tbh, I'm a horrible sports bettor :lol

I was close to putting $100 on Wemby to lead the league in blocks before last season when it was at +2500.

Of course, with my luck the next 50 times i see a chance like that I would lose.

[DAF86]

1868711912684634371

That's gonna change very quickly if Mitch keeps having him come off the bench, tbh.

[scott]

I was close to putting $100 on Wemby to lead the league in blocks before last season when it was at +2500.

Of course, with my luck the next 50 times i see a chance like that I would lose.

Yeah, I'm justifying it to myself by saying if I would have bet it on Castle then he probably would have suffered a season ending injury or some shit... so I did the Spurs universe a favor by staying away :lol

[baseline bum]

Kind of funny Steph became the favorite after some bad games just because McCain tore his meniscus.

[itzsoweezee]

1868711912684634371

Crazy. I think Knecht will win it though. Not sure Steph is such a big favorite now

[cutewizard]

Imagine if ever ........

Back to back....

[John B]

The game versus the Hawks is a must win. I’m hoping Mitch would put Castle back in the SL to slow down Trae and keep Castle in the SL over Sochan. Mitch should realize Castle has a higher ceiling than Sochan, and Castle could very well be the Spurs 2nd or 3rd option down the line. Sochan will never be a 2nd or 3rd option. At best Sochan could be a poor man Draymond Green but that too is a stretch. If ever an ideal PF comes available, i.e. Ingram, easily Sochan gets replaced. On the other hand, Castle offers a desirable big defensive PG who can bully defenders. Easily Castle has the higher ceiling between the two. The only way the two gets to play together on the court is one of them developing a consistent 3pt shot. Again with their shooting forms, I have my money on Castle.

[Raven]

The game versus the Hawks is a must win. I’m hoping Mitch would put Castle back in the SL to slow down Trae and keep Castle in the SL over Sochan. Mitch should realize Castle has a higher ceiling than Sochan, and Castle could very well be the Spurs 2nd or 3rd option down the line. Sochan will never be a 2nd or 3rd option. At best Sochan could be a poor man Draymond Green but that too is a stretch. If ever an ideal PF comes available, i.e. Ingram, easily Sochan gets replaced. On the other hand, Castle offers a desirable big defensive PG who can bully defenders. Easily Castle has the higher ceiling between the two. The only way the two gets to play together on the court is one of them developing a consistent 3pt shot. Again with their shooting forms, I have my money on Castle.


wow, so much badness in this comment, i don't even know where to start.. Ideal pf and Ingram made me hurl

[exstatic]

wow, so much badness in this comment, i don't even know where to start.. Ideal pf and Ingram made me hurl

Yeah, if he were so ideal, they would have traded him for a haul by now.

The infuriating thing about BI is that he CAN shoot the three, but mostly chooses not to. His volume is way too low.

[Uriel]

So would Castle be the #1 pick if a re-draft were held today?

[John B]

wow, so much badness in this comment, i don't even know where to start.. Ideal pf and Ingram made me hurl

Ingram was just an example. The point was Sochan is not ideal for his PF position primarily because of his inability to shoot outside, whereas Castle is a desirable big defensive guard, albeit not a great shooter but he would’ve been overall number 1 if he did. Anyways, I’m just saying Castle should be starting if it’s between Sochan and him on the floor with Wemby.

[rascal]

Ingram was just an example. The point was Sochan is not ideal for his PF position primarily because of his inability to shoot outside, whereas Castle is a desirable big defensive guard, albeit not a great shooter but he would’ve been overall number 1 if he did. Anyways, I’m just saying Castle should be starting if it’s between Sochan and him on the floor with Wemby.

Wow, you're usually a big Homer for Spurs players. Unusual to see you down on a player, Sochan.

[exstatic]

Ingram was just an example. The point was Sochan is not ideal for his PF position primarily because of his inability to shoot outside, whereas Castle is a desirable big defensive guard, albeit not a great shooter but he would’ve been overall number 1 if he did. Anyways, I’m just saying Castle should be starting if it’s between Sochan and him on the floor with Wemby.

Unless you’re GS circa Durant add on, you don’t have ideal options at most positions. Sochan is a solid to very good defender, a vastly improved rebounder, a connector, and a smart screener and cutter. He and Wemby had some great chemistry before the thumb incident, and they probably will again.

[John B]

Unless you’re GS circa Durant add on, you don’t have ideal options at most positions. Sochan is a solid to very good defender, a vastly improved rebounder, a connector, and a smart screener and cutter. He and Wemby had some great chemistry before the thumb incident, and they probably will again.

I agree with everything you said about Sochan. But the Spurs cannot play both non-shooting players with Wemby. And if it’s between Sochan and Castle to start, I’d choose Castle.

Ideal is a preference. And yes it would be ideal to have a shooting PF next to Wemby.

[spurraider21]

I agree with everything you said about Sochan. But the Spurs cannot play both non-shooting players with Wemby. And if it’s between Sochan and Castle to start, I’d choose Castle.

Ideal is a preference. And yes it would be ideal to have a shooting PF next to Wemby.
i agree that you could probably only get away with starting 1 of them right now, but if it were up to me, it would be sochan due to how well he's been rebounding. with tre jones being hurt and branham out of the rotation, there are still a lot of minutes to go around for castle. and despite how disappointing his play has been, i still think you eventually want to get vassell working in the starting lineup. having him out there alongside wemby and paul would actually force him into less ballhog tendencies and get him in the flow of the offense. you probably still start barnes as he's been hitting 50% of his corner 3's

then you've got Castle/Champagnie off the bench as solid two-way perimeter players. just have to stagger guard minutes to limit the wesley/castle backcourts

[John B]

i agree that you could probably only get away with starting 1 of them right now, but if it were up to me, it would be sochan due to how well he's been rebounding. with tre jones being hurt and branham out of the rotation, there are still a lot of minutes to go around for castle. and despite how disappointing his play has been, i still think you eventually want to get vassell working in the starting lineup. having him out there alongside wemby and paul would actually force him into less ballhog tendencies and get him in the flow of the offense. you probably still start barnes as he's been hitting 50% of his corner 3's

then you've got Castle/Champagnie off the bench as solid two-way perimeter players. just have to stagger guard minutes to limit the wesley/castle backcourts

Not only because I want Castle to get a better shot at ROTY as a starter, but also because I see Castle as having a higher ceiling than Sochan and could eventually be Spurs 2nd or 3rd option down the line.

[spurraider21]

Not only because I want Castle to get a better shot at ROTY as a starter, but also because I see Castle as having a higher ceiling than Sochan and could eventually be Spurs 2nd or 3rd option down the line.
sure but that probably ends up with him being on-ball, which he'll get plenty of reps doing off the bench

[Raven]

I agree with everything you said about Sochan. But the Spurs cannot play both non-shooting players with Wemby. And if it’s between Sochan and Castle to start, I’d choose Castle.

Ideal is a preference. And yes it would be ideal to have a shooting PF next to Wemby.

I just don't get this, I mean Wemby is the shooter already, why would you need to pair him with a shooter?

[John B]

I just don't get this, I mean Wemby is the shooter already, why would you need to pair him with a shooter?

First so they can start a non-shooter Castle (you can’t have two non-shooters on the floor). And secondly, a stretch 4 can pull his defender off the paint, thus opening more lanes for Wemby to take his defender when they close out. Markkanen would’ve been great but that ship already sailed.

Again a stretch 4 allows Castle to start, learns playing alongside the point god, and gets a better shot at ROTY. Right now I rather see Barnes at 4 to make it work. Have Vassell, Keldon and Sochan run havoc against 2nd squad defenders

[The Truth #6]

Seems like there's a few different ways to approach this, with no obvious, easy answer. Keep starting Castle to get him minutes this year, or let him come off the bench and learn to adapt.

Castle's play seems to have cooled off a bunch since all the injured players came back. And keeping a winning product on the floor should probably still be the goal.

Honestly, the starting 5 perhaps should be decided by match ups until things become more obvious.

[Raven]

First so they can start a non-shooter Castle (you can’t have two non-shooters on the floor). And secondly, a stretch 4 can pull his defender off the paint, thus opening more lanes for Wemby to take his defender when they close out. Markkanen would’ve been great but that ship already sailed.

Again a stretch 4 allows Castle to start, learns playing alongside the point god, and gets a better shot at ROTY. Right now I rather see Barnes at 4 to make it work. Have Vassell, Keldon and Sochan run havoc against 2nd squad defenders

yeah because lack of open lanes is wemby's issue..

[ambchang]

One of the surprising thing is when I look up the advanced numbers, especially on the defensive end, is pretty bad. His Drating is at 123.7 and his mixed team defense stats (based on some counting stats) is at 33th percentile in the league. His shooting is bad pretty much across the board, and he has a high TOV%, which is expected for a rookie.

I still haven't figured it out, because watching the game, his game is quite advanced for a rookie, and he seems to be doing quite well, but the advanced stats don't reflect that, so i have to watch a bit more closely. I am still very happy with Castle, and think he is just a few minor fixes to be a star (shooting, defending without fouling, cleaner passes).

[exstatic]

One of the surprising thing is when I look up the advanced numbers, especially on the defensive end, is pretty bad. His Drating is at 123.7 and his mixed team defense stats (based on some counting stats) is at 33th percentile in the league. His shooting is bad pretty much across the board, and he has a high TOV%, which is expected for a rookie.

I still haven't figured it out, because watching the game, his game is quite advanced for a rookie, and he seems to be doing quite well, but the advanced stats don't reflect that, so i have to watch a bit more closely. I am still very happy with Castle, and think he is just a few minor fixes to be a star (shooting, defending without fouling, cleaner passes).

Rookies are rarely efficient on either end. We’re just seeing glimpses of what he can be. Think of this year as a sneak peek, or preview of coming attractions.

[Joseph Kony]

Castle is officially #1 on the NBA ROY ladder

[John B]

Castle is officially #1 on the NBA ROY ladder

He has a pretty good chance if he stays in the starting lineup I think

[spurraider21]

still think it can be Edey and Clingan could be a riser as well if Portland moves Ayton and he starts getting big minutes

edey has to stay healthy though, having already missed 12 games

[Joseph Kony]

He has a pretty good chance if he stays in the starting lineup I think
agree, if Vassell is going to the bench forever then Castle should be starting. But then it becomes and issue because a Sochan/Castle starting lineup doesnt provide much spacing for Victor. some tough decisions to make

[Joseph Kony]

still think it can be Edey and Clingan could be a riser as well if Portland moves Ayton and he starts getting big minutes

edey has to stay healthy though, having already missed 12 games

the 65 game minimum doesnt apply to ROY or 6MOY

dont see them moving off Ayton this season tbh. he's an MLE level center making 30 million and his work ethic is questionable, teams know this by now. and with the apron rules i'm guessing it's going to be a much slower trade deadline this year. Clingan should absolutely be starting but Chauncey aint gonna bench Ayton for a rookie.

if Steph continues to start and just plays how he has been while improving slightly as the year goes on, he should easily win the award now with McCain sidelined

[spurraider21]

the 65 game minimum doesnt apply to ROY or 6MOY

dont see them moving off Ayton this season tbh. he's an MLE level center making 30 million and his work ethic is questionable, teams know this by now. and with the apron rules i'm guessing it's going to be a much slower trade deadline this year. Clingan should absolutely be starting but Chauncey aint gonna bench Ayton for a rookie.

if Steph continues to start and just plays how he has been while improving slightly as the year goes on, he should easily win the award now with McCain sidelined
ah.

i'd agree that castle is in the driver's seat tho, but i dont think he's played so consistenty well that he's locked out the people behind him

[Raven]

still think it can be Edey and Clingan could be a riser as well if Portland moves Ayton and he starts getting big minutes

edey has to stay healthy though, having already missed 12 games

I agree.. Think Castle should manage to pull it off tbh

[Strategic]

Castle appears to use a lot of discretion in his offensive game. I think he’s packed full of BBIQ and he should show marked improvement throughout this season. Would be great if he could arc his ppg up to 18 to 20 by the middle of next season.

[Raven]

Castle appears to use a lot of discretion in his offensive game. I think he’s packed full of BBIQ and he should show marked improvement throughout this season. Would be great if he could arc his ppg up to 18 to 20 by the middle of next season.

that's preposterous

[ismael-robert]

I’d be happy with 15ppg and not letting Bub have better rebounding numbers…earn it don’t win by default

[spurraider21]

that's preposterous
he's averaging 15.5 points per 36 as a rookie in his first 2 months

Chris Paul and Tre Jones are on expiring deals, he may see a spike in minutes/role next year

[Raven]

he's averaging 15.5 points per 36 as a rookie in his first 2 months

Chris Paul and Tre Jones are on expiring deals, he may see a spike in minutes/role next year

when is the last time we had a 36mpg player? Never? 20 years? when is the last time we had 4 players with 30mpg or more? never? We usually have only one player playing over 30mpg and i don't see why that would be castle, next year.

[spurraider21]

when is the last time we had a 36mpg player? Never? 20 years? when is the last time we had 4 players with 30mpg or more? never? We usually have only one player playing over 30mpg and i don't see why that would be castle, next year.
vassell averaged 33 minutes just last season.

dejounte averaged 35 in 21-22

derozan averaged 34 the year before that

per36 is just a shorthand since its a readily available stat. its not farfetched for him to reach those scoring figures next year. those are lofty expectations but achievable

[John B]

And there goes Castle’s chances on the ROTY.

[Raven]

he's been playing like the nba's worst player tbh. They are already starting to read into how he plays, which is earlier than expected tbh. He needs to work on his game and find a role, rather than try to be free flowing

[spursparker9]

Castle is regressing. Now that he is back on the bench. It would be a miracle if he is on the all rookie 2nd team

[Raven]

Castle is regressing. Now that he is back on the bench. It would be a miracle if he is on the all rookie 2nd team

he has been consistently playing horrible for a while. The decrease in minutes was overdue. He will figure it out, he needs to go through the process of understanding what he can get away with and what he can't, there is no rookie going away with the award anytime soon.

[spursparker9]

he has been consistently playing horrible for a while. The decrease in minutes was overdue. He will figure it out, he needs to go through the process of understanding what he can get away with and what he can't, there is no rookie going away with the award anytime soon.

Yea he has not been the same since the game against Pelicans where he hurt his shoulder.

[John B]

CP3 seems to be head on winning now and rather influencing the coaching staff on the starters and rotation. That could mean Castle will be relegated to backup PG duties instead. I doubt he makes ROTY now.

[rascal]

Castle is regressing. Now that he is back on the bench. It would be a miracle if he is on the all rookie 2nd team

Not a lot of rookies are playing well.

[Davidicus]

Step away from the edge

Can’t keep a champion down

[Kevin]

Teams figured out he cant shoot the three and he bullies his way to the hoop with some hesitation moves. He's kinda one trick pony on offense right now which isn't the end of the world for a rookie. Without a three point shot he'll be a guard version of Sochan.

[scott]

Rookie wall. It happens. Everyone should relax.

[CGD]

Castillo is a veritable winner. He’s learning that there are limits to his bullyball style at this level and is still working on his shot ans well aa first step, but he’ll be ok.

[DAF86]

Rookie wall. It happens. Everyone should relax.

I think it has more to do with him being sent to the bench and having less minutes. Castle was never efficient, his value came from getting big minutes and his IQ gave him good numbers and impact in the long run playing alongside the starters. In limited minutes, surrounded by lesser players, his numbers and impact were always going to decrease. I would have kept him on the SL, tbh.

[Guru of Nothing]

Ja'Kobe Walter has entered the chat. 27 points on 9/18 (6/11). Fouled out with 2:40 left. Bummer.

[scott]

I think it has more to do with him being sent to the bench and having less minutes. Castle was never efficient, his value came from getting big minutes and his IQ gave him good numbers and impact in the long run playing alongside the starters. In limited minutes, surrounded by lesser players, his numbers and impact were always going to decrease. I would have kept him on the SL, tbh.

I would have as well, but it's hard to argue with wanting to get Devin and Sochan in the starting lineup, and Castle and Sochan definitely can't play together right now. In some ways it is nice to have to make difficult decisions like these.

[Ice009]

he's been playing like the nba's worst player tbh. They are already starting to read into how he plays, which is earlier than expected tbh. He needs to work on his game and find a role, rather than try to be free flowing

He's not playing well at all the past few games, but the NBA's worst player?

[exstatic]

He needs to mix in the hesi move intermittently, and not lean on it so heavily. Teams are starting to wait on it.

[Raven]

He's not playing well at all the past few games, but the NBA's worst player?

for those 3ish games he was truly dreadful. of course, i don't expect it to continue, and he was a lot better against portland already.

[DAF86]

17 pts and only 13 minutes. Castle didn't drop his level, he's just getting less oportunities with a full roster, and that's a fucking mistake.

[scott]

17 pts and only 13 minutes. Castle didn't drop his level, he's just getting less oportunities with a full roster, and that's a fucking mistake.

I’m still not sold on a Fox trade… but a moving Devin out for him does open a pathway for Castle that currently seems blocked, and I think that’s a mistake.

[spursistan]

17 pts and only 13 minutes. Castle didn't drop his level, he's just getting less oportunities with a full roster, and that's a fucking mistake.
Wonder how much it is Pop regaining some control of coaching duties from afar now that he is seemingly recovered from the stroke side-efffects? otherwise this Mitch first real faux-pas. Inexcusable to not let Steph earn that ROTY

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt72sd2paJw

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mPi_In50Gc

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmShzBXubPQ

[tonight...you]

This was a case where I would have subbed Castle for Sochan as their defensive assignments would have been the same: Maxey.

Castle was dialed in and while the results might have been the same in many ways, they could have been different in many ways and Castle just had a pep in his step, so to speak, and it should have been ridden, imo.

[DAF86]

Today was unacceptable. Your 4th overall pick might be working on a career game and you limit him to 13 fucking minutes. Coaching malpractice.

If they are gonna keep Castle in the bench, they better win games. That's all I'm gonna say.

[MannyIsGod]

Especially when the two guys who played in his spot made completely stupid plays down the stretch. Just insane to not give him more run considering how he carried the Spurs for a bit in the 3rd.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt72sd2paJw

His penetration has vibes of D-Rose

[SupremeGuy]

I didn't think the coaching staff would be dumb enough to take him out of the starting rotation but here we are...

[CGD]

Especially when the two guys who played in his spot made completely stupid plays down the stretch. Just insane to not give him more run considering how he carried the Spurs for a bit in the 3rd.

The real issue and elephant in the room is Chris Paul. Yes, he’s a calming presence at the end, but his inability to break down the defense with penetration anymore is killing us. Leads to stupid hero ball as the end. Castle would have helped with that more than anything else.

Meanwhile, because of the inability to breakdown the defense, the Spurs needed their shooting out there. Sadly, we have ass shooters right now. Champ kept us in the game, but unfortunately gave it away at the end. Don’t blame Mitch for keeping him in tho.

[Pauleta14]

I didn't even realise he only played 13' tbh

Castle should never play fewer minutes than Tre.

[onechance87]

I didn't even realise he only played 13' tbh

Castle should never play fewer minutes than Tre.

yup unacceptable

[exstatic]

I don’t care about career games. I actually don’t even care about ROTY. I care about a team being built to win. If that means a bit slower dev for some players,so be it.

[Ice009]

Great game from Steph, I was waiting for him to comeback in late in the 4th quarter but it never happened, then when I saw after the game he'd only played 13 minutes, I was even more upset seeing after seeing guys like Devin Vassell do nothing to help win the game.

[MannyIsGod]

I don’t care about career games. I actually don’t even care about ROTY. I care about a team being built to win. If that means a bit slower dev for some players,so be it.



What makes you think the decision to sit Castle was better for his development other than your absolute inability to criticize any Spurs coaching decision?

[RC_Drunkford]

He should play at least 20-25 minutes per game tbh

[John B]

He should play at least 20-25 minutes per game tbh

My concern is Mitch getting influenced by CP3 to win at the expense of developing players. A lot of ST posters don’t like Blake, Malaki and Sidy, much like Castle, they too need some minutes instead of DNP’s.

[onechance87]

My concern is Mitch getting influenced by CP3 to win at the expense of developing players. A lot of ST posters don’t like Blake, Malaki and Sidy, much like Castle, they too need some minutes instead of DNP’s.

lol those guys should not be in the nba.Castle should be getting more min by not giving tre any mins.

[ginobilized]

Castle needs some Xmas day time in the rotation. 13 mins is criminal, especially when he was playing great and helping us have a fighting chance.
That was one of Mitch's weirder choices so far.

Also, I get CP3 or Tre, but, not CP3 AND Tre. Makes no sense.

[TheBallsbreakers]

Today was unacceptable. Your 4th overall pick might be working on a career game and you limit him to 13 fucking minutes. Coaching malpractice.

If they are gonna keep Castle in the bench, they better win games. That's all I'm gonna say.
Absolutely agree. This one was criminal on the part of the coach.

[baseline bum]

My concern is Mitch getting influenced by CP3 to win at the expense of developing players. A lot of ST posters don’t like Blake, Malaki and Sidy, much like Castle, they too need some minutes instead of DNP’s.

Nah Malaki DNPs are great, dude should be playing only when they're up 25 or down 25.

[itzsoweezee]

Castle’s family is in New York for this game. His mom presented him his ncaa championship ring at practice at the Spurs’ request. I expect a ton of minutes for Steph tomorrow

[cutewizard]

Congratulations Stephon Castle!

[spursparker9]

Latest ranking
(All stats through Monday, Dec. 23)

1. Stephon Castle, San Antonio Spurs

Season stats: 11.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.8 apg
Last Ladder: 1
Draft pick: No. 4

Castle’s floor presence and defense keep him on top despite offensive inconsistency. He has shot worse in December than in November, and at 38.9% overall, he’s lagging compared to past ROY winners. The only trophy winner since 1958 to shoot less than 40% was Jason Kidd in 1995, who shared the ROY with Grant Hill after helping Dallas boost its victory total by 23.

[spursparker9]

Given that he is playing less than 20mins and have not play the 4Q at all for the past few games, it is highly unlikely he will be ROY. Let's aim for all rookie 1st team

Meanwhile, Zach Edey with 21 pts 16 rebs in 27 mins. If he is healthy, he will be ROY

[John B]

Dumbass Mitch benching him Castle with limited minutes and instead having Tre depending Brunson, was a head scratcher, unless PATFO is trying to build Tre’s stock for a possible trade. Because that didn’t make sense.

[LeBowen]

Dumbass Mitch benching him Castle with limited minutes and instead having Tre depending Brunson, was a head scratcher, unless PATFO is trying to build Tre’s stock for a possible trade. Because that didn’t make sense.

Kind of an anwnkward situation.
Tre is a solid player and deserves minutes, but we have no use for him if he's not going to be the main and only point guard on the floor because he's a negative off the ball.

CP3 situation needs to be resolved before the deadline, imo.
If he intends to play for one more year and wants to stay, then Tre needs to be traded. Doesn't have much value as an expiring contract, but maybe we can get a similar player in a role we actually need. Another bench shooter would be nice.
If CP3 doesn't plan on playing with the Spurs the next season, then Tre needs to be offered another cheap deal. If he doesn't accept it, trade him.
We have no use for him in current rotation and he's an expiring contract.

[sfernald]

The biggest skill I think Castle needs to develop is a convincing pump fake. If he gets good at it he will become an absolute free throw magnet.

[quentin_compson]

If opposing players aren't worried about your shot, then they won't bite a lot on your pump fakes ...

[LeBowen]

If opposing players aren't worried about your shot, then they won't bite a lot on your pump fakes ...

Exactly.
He needs a reliable FT line pull up.
Dejounte became a completely different player when he developed it.

[Seventyniner]

Exactly.
He needs a reliable FT line pull up.
Dejounte became a completely different player when he developed it.

Parker too.

[sfernald]

If opposing players aren't worried about your shot, then they won't bite a lot on your pump fakes ...

I mean more when he’s in the trees around the basket going for a layup. He needs to develop a way to draw reliable contact from the bigs. He just seems lost under there sometimes. A good believable pump fake would really help I think.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I mean more when he’s in the trees around the basket going for a layup. He needs to develop a way to draw reliable contact from the bigs. He just seems lost under there sometimes. A good believable pump fake would really help I think.

It's because he wants to be literally directly underneath the base of the backboard before he feels comfortable putting the shot up. He needs a floater and a middy, really, really, really badly.

[SupremeGuy]

I think it was a bad decision to move Castle from the starting lineup tbh. I hope he doesn't hold grudges cause he legitimately had a chance at ROY.

[Pauleta14]

I think it was a bad decision to move Castle from the starting lineup tbh. I hope he doesn't hold grudges cause he legitimately had a chance at ROY.

Too much politic and players to satisfy for a young coach.

It was easier when he had a few injuries

[ginobilized]

Too much politic and players to satisfy for a young coach.

It was easier when he had a few injuries

Remember that CP3 is a ticking injury time bomb. I'm not sure of the protocol to unjinx the injury that your post has invited.
With our luck, Tre would move into the SL, instead of Castle, anyway.

I loved Castle as a starter.

[Pauleta14]

Remember that CP3 is a ticking injury time bomb. I'm not sure of the protocol to unjinx the injury that your post has invited.
With our luck, Tre would move into the SL, instead of Castle, anyway.

I loved Castle as a starter.

It's a complex issue that involves Sochan as much as Devin or Tre

Castle isn't Sochan compatible and had his best games when Jeremy was out

Devin probably complained to get back asap into the SL and messes up the rotations that were working with him off the bench

Tre needs to be given playing time even if he doesn't really moves the needle

Castle is a rookie and doesn't have the star power Wemby had so he's fucked basically and only gets what's left available in PT

[objective]

Good news gentlemen!

Banning Castle from 4th quarters despite how well he might have played has successfully killed his confidence and ruined his game enough that now he's benched for second halves after a bad first half

NOW he can work on getting over himself and slowly work towards the front office goal of being the next Lonnie Walker

[LeBowen]

Good news gentlemen!

Banning Castle from 4th quarters despite how well he might have played has successfully killed his confidence and ruined his game enough that now he's benched for second halves after a bad first half

NOW he can work on getting over himself and slowly work towards the front office goal of being the next Lonnie Walker

Mitch killed both Castle and Champ in favor of Devin, Tre and Keldon.
While it's understandable in Devin's case because we know he can do better, playing Tre on an expiring contract and net negative Keldon is inexcusable.

I hate myself for saying this, but hopefully Pop comes back.

[scott]

Castle needs a quick trip up to Austin to drop 40 on some scrubs and get that confidence back.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Pop coming back is going to help Castle… it’s just going to result in some DNPs

[Spurs Brazil]

Castle off the bench is a disaster. He started the season playing bad off the bench. When he was in the starting group when Sochan was injured he played really well. Now, back to the bench, he even worst than in the beginning of the season

[TekXX]

Mitch killed both Castle and Champ in favor of Devin, Tre and Keldon.
While it's understandable in Devin's case because we know he can do better, playing Tre on an expiring contract and net negative Keldon is inexcusable.

I hate myself for saying this, but hopefully Pop comes back.

You act like Pop isn't still the coach of this team, he most likely is making these decisions.

[Mugen]

Castle was absolutely horrible in the 1st half. But you can't bench him in that spot. Not on this team when they're still pretty much dog shit.

[rascal]

I think it was a bad decision to move Castle from the starting lineup tbh. I hope he doesn't hold grudges cause he legitimately had a chance at ROY.

I don't think Castle cares as much about ROY as Spurstalk does.

[John B]

The only reason I can think is they are showcasing Tre Jones (and maybe Collins). I think Castle gets his minutes back after trade deadline. Because it’s the worst decision not to give Castle minutes if that’s not the case. It has to be.

[onechance87]

I like castle alot.But untill he proves hes a elite playmaker and a respectable shooter,We cant wait to develop him in what may be a few years to
become a decent pg.The search must go on for a future pg of this team.

[z0sa]

I like castle alot.But untill he proves hes a elite playmaker and a respectable shooter,We cant wait to develop him in what may be a few years to
become a decent pg.The search must go on for a future pg of this team.

He has above average instances of being blocked and/or the ball being stripped away from him.

As much as I love the guy, he needs a reliable 2pt shot. I don't see him becoming a 3pt shooter before mastering the mid-range art, which will IMHO be to our advantage.

[ismael-robert]

Probably has a rookie of the year bonus in his contract the Spurs don't want to pay so they're tanking his chances the way they did to that one power forward they sent to Toronto can't think of his name

[Pauleta14]

Mitch killed both Castle and Champ in favor of Devin, Tre and Keldon.
While it's understandable in Devin's case because we know he can do better, playing Tre on an expiring contract and net negative Keldon is inexcusable.

I hate myself for saying this, but hopefully Pop comes back.

That's a clear symptom of a young coach who doesn't have the power, credibility or balls to not gaf about status and contracts.

Mitch has been an assistant for a long time and grew up with most of them, it's to hard for him to be the bad guy (when it's a huge part of the job), it's easier to bench Castle for him. It's as simple as that.

And I agree, for all his flaws, Pop>>>>>>>>

[BatManu20]

1873750397552382332

[SupremeGuy]

I don't think Castle cares as much about ROY as Spurstalk does.That's bullshit, man.

He won't be openly voicing it but he does care. If this was a championship level team, then he probably wouldn't care.

[tim_duncan_fan]

It is valuable for the team if he gets ROY, too. He looks like he will become a great player, but supposing he tapers off next year, a former ROY has trade value.

Next time he's on the court, he needs to make sure the ball moves on offense, be judicial and stop himself from simply Keldoning into the paint only to throw up a half-prayer of a shot, and hit a couple of jumpers. If he does this in his next game, he'll be right back in everyone's good graces.

[Manu-of-steel]

Nice game by Stephon! Way to go!

[Obstructed_View]

I feel better about Castle than I do about every other young player not named Victor.

I'm pretty sure I feel better about Castle than I did about Kawhi at a similar point his rookie year. I definitely feel better than I did about Dejounte or White.

[John B]

Nice game by Castle tonight with 15 pts, 4 rebs, 4 assists 1 steal, 1 block in 23 mins of play. I hope it continues.

[Manu-of-steel]

I hope Coach Mitch sees the value of having Stephon in the line up

[Obstructed_View]

Nice game by Castle tonight with 15 pts, 4 rebs, 4 assists 1 steal, 1 block in 23 mins of play. I hope it continues.
His shooting is ass, and his value as a player is through the roof. Seriously excited to see him progress.

[spursparker9]

I hope Coach Mitch sees the value of having Stephon in the line up

Mitch only played him more because Sochan was hurt. That's all.

[Russo21]

1873750397552382332

That really sucks. DV is in his 5th or 6th year, we know who he is. Same with KJ. Castle has the opportunity to be a star and the best player in his draft class. Theres no reason for DV to get in the way of Castle's progression.

Hopefully there just taking care of his health and showcasing DV and or KJ for a trade. Castle is clearly part of the future. Vassell and KJ are clearly part of the darkest era in Spurs history.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCdX9tq9TmI

[Raven]

That really sucks. DV is in his 5th or 6th year, we know who he is. Same with KJ. Castle has the opportunity to be a star and the best player in his draft class. Theres no reason for DV to get in the way of Castle's progression.

Hopefully there just taking care of his health and showcasing DV and or KJ for a trade. Castle is clearly part of the future. Vassell and KJ are clearly part of the darkest era in Spurs history.

he doesn't, in any way shape or form. Castle lost minutes to tre jones.

[DAF86]

That really sucks. DV is in his 5th or 6th year, we know who he is. Same with KJ. Castle has the opportunity to be a star and the best player in his draft class. Theres no reason for DV to get in the way of Castle's progression.

Hopefully there just taking care of his health and showcasing DV and or KJ for a trade. Castle is clearly part of the future. Vassell and KJ are clearly part of the darkest era in Spurs history.

I would argue Sochan is the one that takes minutes away from Castle, not Vassell. If Sochan is out for a couple of games, watch Stephon start and get his minutes up.

[DAF86]

he doesn't, in any way shape or form. Castle lost minutes to tre jones.

Nope. Tre is taking the minutes Wesley was getting when Castle was playing 30 minutes per game.

It really is Sochan the one that takes minutes away from Castle. They serve the same role: the primary perimeter defender that can't shoot from outside.

[exstatic]

Nope. Tre is taking the minutes Wesley was getting when Castle was playing 30 minutes per game.

It really is Sochan the one that takes minutes away from Castle. They serve the same role: the primary perimeter defender that can't shoot from outside.

Tre is his direct PG minutes competition. Neither Tre nor Wesley should be playing unless someone is hurt. They aren’t in the future plans.

[DAF86]

Tre is his direct PG minutes competition. Neither Tre nor Wesley should be playing unless someone is hurt. They aren’t in the future plans.

Well, that's an entire different argument and I agree with you. But the reality is that in Pop's and Mitch's rotations, it isn't Tre nor Blake the ones that are taking minutes away from Castle. I haven't double checked, but I don't think Castle and Sochan have started together and their shared minutes must be among the fewest within the rotation guys.

[scott]

Well, that's an entire different argument and I agree with you. But the reality is that in Pop's and Mitch's rotations, it isn't Tre nor Blake the ones that are taking minutes away from Castle. I haven't double checked, but I don't think Castle and Sochan have started together and their shared minutes must be among the fewest within the rotation guys.

Sochan and Castle have shared the court for 168 minutes over 19 games. To your point, the only players he has played less with are: Bassey (132), Tre (129), Bran (118), Blake (64), Mamu (47) and Sidy (6). Unfortunately I don't have a way to check this, but I think as of late Castle has been playing more WITH Tre than with Sochan. It seems obvious to me that Steph is not being used as a PG but rather as a secondary ball handler alongside another PG (he's played 373 minutes across 29 games with CP3 - he's only played more with Barnes, Champ, Keldon and Wemby).

Of Steph's 802 MP this year, only 247 (31%) have come without one of CP3, Tre or Blake on the court with him. If we include Branham as a PG, as the Spurs sometimes use him, that number drops to 169 minutes (21%).

An argument can be made that the Spurs run a lot of two PG rotations, which is true, but of CP3's 951 minutes, 79% of them have come with CP3 alone (41.2%) or alongside Castle (37.6%). It's clear to me that Castle is not a PG in the Spurs minds (right now anyway).

Whether or not this is the position he SHOULD be playing is another matter. Based on how they've tried to push our SG into ballhandling roles frequently (Devin, Branham) - I think the Spurs really value having two ball handling guards, and that could be a major part of the appeal when they selected Castle.

Edit: in the 169 minutes that Castle has played without CP3, Tre, Blake or Bran, the team has a -16.04 net rating. The pairing of Steph and CP3 has a +6.36 NETRTG and the Steph/Tre combo is +10.26. For those wondering, those CP3/Tre minutes that frustrate everyone actually have a +20.26 NETRTG.

[Pauleta14]

I would argue Sochan is the one that takes minutes away from Castle, not Vassell. If Sochan is out for a couple of games, watch Stephon start and get his minutes up.

It's not one player but 3 one dimensional players (Vassell Tre and Sochan) for diff reasons that take PT away from Castle

[Leetonidas]

Castle bumped from the ROY ladder. Not even top 3 now

[Obstructed_View]

Castle bumped from the ROY ladder. Not even top 3 now

He hasn't been top ten the entire season.

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings

[LakerHater]

Unless he starts, he aint getting shit!

[John B]

Castle bumped from the ROY ladder. Not even top 3 now

There is no reason why Spurs top rookie and the future, is not average 20+ minutes. Already one of the better POA defender of the team, alone should earn him more minutes.

[Leetonidas]

He hasn't been top ten the entire season.

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings
On the Kia NBA rookie ladder that the official NBA page posts on social media he's been #1 since McCain got injured. He fell off the ladder since he got benched by Mitch

[ismael-robert]

Right, no point posting a site nba doesn't even use

[spurraider21]

He hasn't been top ten the entire season.

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings
arent those fantasy basketball rankings?

[Obstructed_View]

arent those fantasy basketball rankings?
Maybe. Does that make a difference? This is the one I followed for Vic vs Chet last year. I don't really trust the same league that arbitrarily named Jaren Jackson defensive player of the month over Victor.

[spurraider21]

Maybe. Does that make a difference?
yes

[Em-City]

Maybe. Does that make a difference? This is the one I followed for Vic vs Chet last year. I don't really trust the same league that arbitrarily named Jaren Jackson defensive player of the month over Victor.
Fantasy Rankings are completely not applicable.
E.g. that lists has Jordan Poole #37 and Giannis #43 lol

[Obstructed_View]

Fantasy Rankings are completely not applicable.
E.g. that lists has Jordan Poole #37 and Giannis #43 lol
That's pretty bad since those guys aren't rookies.

[Obstructed_View]

yes
Oh. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[spurraider21]

Oh. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
you asked a yes or no question

[Obstructed_View]

you asked a yes or no question
If you say so.

[Em-City]

That's pretty bad since those guys aren't rookies.

The rookies are a filtered subset of the primary player rankings.

[spursparker9]

Castle's shot look broken.

Very short on mid range and wide left/right on 3s

[Obstructed_View]

Castle's shot look broken.

Very short on mid range and wide left/right on 3s

Lol he shoots such a bad jumper with so much confidence. Of all the young guys who need to establish a three pointer, he has the best chance.

[LeBowen]

Not attacking the rim against no rim protectors was a way bigger issue than his jumpshot.

[BatManu20]

Agreed that this was a game that he should've been attacking more. Joker isn't a rim protector and Castle is as good enough athlete to finish over the top of him anyways. Needs to use his strong upper body to bully defenders in the paint and throw up little floaters like he did earlier in the season and like he did all the time at UCONN. Hopefully tomorrow he's more aggressive cause while his shot is obviously not where it needs to be, he's a better offense player than he's shown over the past 2-3 weeks.

[BatManu20]

1875291394455277822

[TekXX]

Is this DOA?

[scott]

Is this DOA?

Only thing that can save it at this point, IMO, is if Vassell is shipped out, Castle is thrust into a 30+ MPG role and puts up a bunch of stats (regardless of whether it results in wins or losses).

[spurraider21]

its kind of wild to me that for a guy whose scouting report was "he cant shoot" it took the league 25+ games to finally start just abandoning him at the 3pt line. like yeah they were never playing him super tight, but it shouldnt have taken him this long to get the giddy treatment

[Raven]

i still don't believe castle has done anything to be preferred to blake.

[spurraider21]

i still don't believe castle has done anything to be preferred to blake.
as a 19 year old rookie he's more productive than wesley has ever been, while having more size/switchability, and plays a more mature game on both ends

wesley's speed is nice and he probably does deserve some more opportunities this year (i mean why the fuck not, we already guaranteed next year's contract). i think it should come at the expense of Tre Jones though, not Castle

[Mr. Body]

i still don't believe castle has done anything to be preferred to blake.

You just slam in the dumbest takes. Impressive.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not remotely interested in ROY for Castle. I wonder if he cares. Probably somewhat. More important is his growth in the next couple of years and I see no reason to think he's going to get that middy figured out along with his finishing. He's going to be a terrific player.

[John B]

i still don't believe castle has done anything to be preferred to blake.

I’m not sure if you’re serious. Castle can already bully defenders on top of his smothering defense. He has handles and athleticism. The only thing missing is his consistent shot to propel this guy to the next level.

I like Blake and it’s a head scratcher why Mitch is not giving him some minutes. I think Wesley has a future with the Spurs. Branham, he can go.

[Splits]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/528473c7d56b8d0011753747b9b42576/tumblr_o6bmi8bfyN1u8yw5ao1_1280.gifv

[spursparker9]

McCain is out for season

[CorrectCrusader]

i still don't believe castle has done anything to be preferred to blake.

What? Castle has been a more productive player in his first 20 games than Wesley has been his entire career.

[LeBowen]

What? Castle has been a more productive player in his first 20 games than Wesley has been his entire career.

Ignore him, he's one of those rage-bait posters.
His gimmick is to shit on Castle, he contributes nothing else.

[Raven]

What? Castle has been a more productive player in his first 20 games than Wesley has been his entire career.

looks very low hanging fruit production tbh

[Obstructed_View]

McCain is out for season
That sucks. He was making me look like a genius for a bit. :lol

[wildbill2u]

Castle often tries to play hero ball a la Keldon and that is inconsistent with what he is supposed to be doing and learning as a rookie. Remember Mitch is there to win games in order to impress and insure future jobs. If a rookie is not following the script laid out for him by the coaches, he is liable to get benched, no matter how talented he might be.

[LeBowen]

Castle often tries to play hero ball a la Keldon and that is inconsistent with what he is supposed to be doing and learning as a rookie. Remember Mitch is there to win games in order to impress and insure future jobs. If a rookie is not following the script laid out for him by the coaches, he is liable to get benched, no matter how talented he might be.

I think that Castle attacking the rim is a part of the script.
Him and Keldon are the only players who can get there consistently, it's just that their end product is questionable.
Our biggest issue is that the offense often grinds to a halt because there isn't anyone who can collapse the defense.

[Mr. Body]

Castle often tries to play hero ball a la Keldon and that is inconsistent with what he is supposed to be doing and learning as a rookie. Remember Mitch is there to win games in order to impress and insure future jobs. If a rookie is not following the script laid out for him by the coaches, he is liable to get benched, no matter how talented he might be.

That's not what hero ball is. Those are shots they're supposed to take.

[Mr. Body]

The only player on the roster prone to hero ball is Wembanyama.

[spurraider21]

The only player on the roster prone to hero ball is Wembanyama.
vassell definitely does, though i also wouldnt characterize castle's play as hero ball. he's in an on-ball role, and if offenses are playing off of him that bad and just daring him to score, thats what he has to do. if he's so poor at it that he's hurting the team, he should be sat and come back with/against different lineups.

[itzsoweezee]

vassell definitely does, though i also wouldnt characterize castle's play as hero ball. he's in an on-ball role, and if offenses are playing off of him that bad and just daring him to score, thats what he has to do. if he's so poor at it that he's hurting the team, he should be sat and come back with/against different lineups.

Castle also had taken on the same bad habit that we see in keldon — he’ll put his head down and just force the issue trying to get to the cup, even when it’s like one on three. At least castle has an excuse in that he’s a rookie, but he can’t play that predictably. Defenses adjust pretty quick that stuff, especially when they are paying more attention to you

[cutewizard]

Castle with a good performance today.......

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwyxN5IfcRI

[John B]

The way he targeted Reaves to bully down every time was nice :lol

[sfernald]

This lakers game was the most promising game I’ve seen from him in a while.

The question is can he perform at this level with this level of aggression each night?

He started the game horribly with missed gimmes and turnovers but man he was determined to have a good game. This kid needs to cook this season. If he masters shooting we might actually have KL2.

[John B]

This lakers game was the most promising game I’ve seen from him in a while.

The question is can he perform at this level with this level of aggression each night?

He started the game horribly with missed gimmes and turnovers but man he was determined to have a good game. This kid needs to cook this season. If he masters shooting we might actually have KL2.

The kid is not shy and such a bully at 20. Agree he needs to work on his shooting but the kid is a winner, so I don’t worry. Mitch needs to keep sending him and learn from his mistakes.

[RC_Drunkford]

He needs to be on the court with Wemby and CP3. That‘s where he’s the most effective. I agree that he should start in place of Sochan

[Manu-of-steel]

Castle will never be KL2. KL2 is too big vompared to Castle. Our best hope is Jrue Holiday with a better offensive game.

[John B]

Castle will never be KL2. KL2 is too big vompared to Castle. Our best hope is Jrue Holiday with a better offensive game.

I’m hoping he will never a big pussy like Kawhi is.

[Manu-of-steel]

Does he have an uncle Dennis? ��Hmm. It's good to have Unc CP3 and HB for his development

[stnick2261]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-january-29-2025-edition

Oh boy... the timing of this. Castle is up to #1 at the top of the Rookie Ladder

[John B]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-january-29-2025-edition

Oh boy... the timing of this. Castle is up to #1 at the top of the Rookie Ladder

I doubt Mitch sends him to bench again. I just don’t know about Pop when he gets back. But Pop loves players who play hard-nosed defense and that’s what Castle does. Anyway, if Castle stays at SL, he bags ROTY. Once his shooting gets consistent, he has the best 2way potential in his class

[MannyIsGod]

Castle often tries to play hero ball a la Keldon and that is inconsistent with what he is supposed to be doing and learning as a rookie. Remember Mitch is there to win games in order to impress and insure future jobs. If a rookie is not following the script laid out for him by the coaches, he is liable to get benched, no matter how talented he might be.

Do you guys just think that everyone who attacks the rim is playing "hero ball" because you're not used to having a team that isn't at the bottom of the league in drives?

[rascal]

Do you guys just think that everyone who attacks the rim is playing "hero ball" because you're not used to having a team that isn't at the bottom of the league in drives?

Spurs need to address the lack of team athleticism. Need to add players with the ability to attack and finish at the rim so they aren't at the bottom of the league on drives.

[Mnky]

Do you guys just think that everyone who attacks the rim is playing "hero ball" because you're not used to having a team that isn't at the bottom of the league in drives?

Yea I don't see what people talk about with hero ball. Castle does not take many shots and is without a doubt the best slasher and rim attacker on the team. His IQ is great for his age with offensive awareness and moving without the ball which is huge for a team built for Wemby who dominate touches.

It's crazy he's arguably the best overall rookie in his class and people still are finding ways to be emo about life. Kid was an awesome pick. Glad Houston let us have him.

Meanwhile, that 3 pt shot everyone is so worried about is doing well for Reed in the g league.

So much more to the game than that. Castles overall game is impressive for a rookie.

[cutewizard]

Guys

Do you think Castle has the best hesi-step in the league?

[Pauleta14]

Yea I don't see what people talk about with hero ball. Castle does not take many shots and is without a doubt the best slasher and rim attacker on the team. His IQ is great for his age with offensive awareness and moving without the ball which is huge for a team built for Wemby who dominate touches.

It's crazy he's arguably the best overall rookie in his class and people still are finding ways to be emo about life. Kid was an awesome pick. Glad Houston let us have him.

Meanwhile, that 3 pt shot everyone is so worried about is doing well for Reed in the g league.

So much more to the game than that. Castles overall game is impressive for a rookie.

I agree with you on Castle but let's be honest, he wouldn't play much more than Reed had he been drafted by the rockettes. They have so many options it's ridiculous

[Pauleta14]

Guys

Do you think Castle has the best hesi-step in the league?

You mean better than Harden's ? :lol

I love him but he's a rookie and the worst version of himself for now, he's the best in the league at nothing... yet

[Mnky]

I agree with you on Castle but let's be honest, he wouldn't play much more than Reed had he been drafted by the rockettes. They have so many options it's ridiculous

They're definitely stacked at the guard position but I don't think that's the only reason Reed isn't playing tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Guys

Do you think Castle has the best hesi-step in the league?

Not on the same team. Barnes is better.

[z0sa]

Castle and Fox look like a bad fit on paper. However, Fox should open up more opportunities for he (and Vassell) to really shine at beating weak side/rotating defenders. This is a big-time work in progress but most of the pieces are here now.

We need a guy who is the stretch 4 hustler archetype. Like Mamu but plays defense, rebounds and shoots better, long story short.

[LakerHater]

https://images4.imagebam.com/df/a4/ab/MEZEYS3_o.gif

[cutewizard]

Congratulations

Rookie of the Month!!

[John B]

Bou-yah! He’d get it, but we don’t know how Fox coming will affect his minutes.

[Arguendo]

Castle and Fox look like a bad fit on paper. However, Fox should open up more opportunities for he (and Vassell) to really shine at beating weak side/rotating defenders. This is a big-time work in progress but most of the pieces are here now.
We need a guy who is the stretch 4 hustler archetype. Like Mamu but plays defense, rebounds and shoots better, long story short.

I agree with all of this, just wanted to note:
Fox shot 36.9% on 8 3pa last yr, should have better looks here. Castle's at 31% with the starters, 34.7% since coming back to SL, should benefit from Fox too (and a consistent role).

And that stretch 4 sounds like a Sochan that hits 36-38% of his 3s? Sochan's gone from 24.6% to 30.8% to 32.6%, I'd expect more time with CP3 and Wemby+Fox will get him better looks, maybe gets him up to 33-34% this year.


36+% seems ambitious next season, but 34-35% seems very possible. Big-time work in progress, but I think Sochan may well be that exact piece in 2-3 years, at least on small volume.

& Vic will play a lot above the arch until he bulks up, so we don't really want a 4 hanging out there full-time, someone needs to play in the paint next season and grab O-rebs, Sochan is 30th in NBA in O-rebs. If he ups his 3% by 2-3pts and he is damn close to that guy, at 22 year old.
If Fox or Castle can get to 35% with the other at 33%, Wemby keeps improving (he's 37% after those October games), and Barnes/Vassell shoot their career avgs (38%, 37%) there's no spacing problem with Sochan at 32%, gravy if he improves and the team D could be crazy good.

As for ROY, Castle is at 17.7/4.4/3.8A:2.4 TOs on 46.8/34.7/72.5 on 14.1FGa/4.6 3pa over his last 10games. Fox may hurt the PPG, but should improve the As and %s. ROY is Castles to lose imo.

[quentin_compson]

And that stretch 4 sounds like a Sochan that hits 36-38% of his 3s? Sochan's gone from 24.6% to 30.8% to 32.6%, I'd expect more time with CP3 and Wemby+Fox will get him better looks, maybe gets him up to 33-34% this year.


36+% seems ambitious next season, but 34-35% seems very possible. Big-time work in progress, but I think Sochan may well be that exact piece in 2-3 years, at least on small volume.

If it's on small volume, then he won't be a stretch 4 because no one will bother defending him out on the perimeter. In the contemporary NBA, volume has become almost as important as shooting percentages in regards to three point shooting.

[ambchang]

As much as I am a fan of sochan, I’ve more or less given up on hoping he’d ever be a stretch four. He’s a hustle guy, he is a versatile defender, he is a great offensive rebounder, he is a decent passer and ball handler for his size, he is a fantastic cutter, and he is surprisingly effective working with wemby despite his shooting, but he will never be an average shooter, let alone a 36-38% shooter.

If he can be a 32% shooter on 4 attempts a game, I’d be ecstatic because he would be a valuable piece on the current spurs team.

[baseline bum]

I agree with you on Castle but let's be honest, he wouldn't play much more than Reed had he been drafted by the rockettes. They have so many options it's ridiculous

He'd be a horrific fit on the Rockets next to Amen Thompson. I bet they would have taken Clingan at 4 had the pick orders been swapped and the Spurs taken Sheppard at 3.

[Mnky]

As much as I am a fan of sochan, I’ve more or less given up on hoping he’d ever be a stretch four. He’s a hustle guy, he is a versatile defender, he is a great offensive rebounder, he is a decent passer and ball handler for his size, he is a fantastic cutter, and he is surprisingly effective working with wemby despite his shooting, but he will never be an average shooter, let alone a 36-38% shooter.

If he can be a 32% shooter on 4 attempts a game, I’d be ecstatic because he would be a valuable piece on the current spurs team.

He's been playing ball for like 5 years.

He's been actually shooting maybe 2-3 of those.

He has plenty of time to develop a shot. Most players come into the NBA with 10 years of being "the guy" from little league to college.

[drpill]

He's been playing ball for like 5 years.

He's been actually shooting maybe 2-3 of those.

He has plenty of time to develop a shot. Most players come into the NBA with 10 years of being "the guy" from little league to college.

Not sure where you're getting this from -- he played youth basketball, his mom was a basketball player, and five years ago he was MVP of the FIBA U16 European Championship.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not sure where you're getting this from -- he played youth basketball, his mom was a basketball player, and five years ago he was MVP of the FIBA U16 European Championship.

his dad played at Wake Forest with Tim

[drpill]

his dad played at Wake Forest with Tim

I think he was talking about Sochan there, not Castle. If not, my bad.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think he was talking about Sochan there, not Castle. If not, my bad.

oh ok my bad :lol

[BatManu20]

1887220957376618653

[Pauleta14]

Not sure where you're getting this from -- he played youth basketball, his mom was a basketball player, and five years ago he was MVP of the FIBA U16 European Championship.

I didn't know. (thx)

That makes his current level and development even more head scratching tbh. He has no excuses, it has to be related to his work ethic or willingness to make the best of his opportunities.

Usually, children of former players have an above average feel for the game.

[SpursBills]

1887220957376618653

Question for you guys:

Where do you think Kel'el Ware would have gone last year if he didn't have concerns about his motor and his freshman year wasn't such a disaster? And based on what you currently see out of him, would a double big lineup with Wemby and him work in the future hypothetically? I'm not interested in trading for him or anything, just wanted to revisit the double-big lineup and see if there's any kind of big other than the Naz Reid-Lauri-Cam Johnson big shooting forward types that would fit next to him.

[Knoxxx]

You guys made poor Bill all but apologize for an excellent take and over explain it. But the scars make him beautiful!

Seriously, a player like Ware is exactly what this team is missing. Other than legit starting SF.

[LeBowen]

I'm not interested in trading for him or anything, just wanted to revisit the double-big lineup and see if there's any kind of big other than the Naz Reid-Lauri-Cam Johnson big shooting forward types that would fit next to him.

Unless we get a KAT-like C who can shoot lights out, we'd be sabotaging ourselves with 2 bigs lineup.
Everyone is going to defend Wemby with long forwards as on-ball defenders. Having another big next to him would just make those matchups natural and easier for opposing bigs to not get exploited.

Get a 6'9-6'11 forward who can shoots lights out and put it on the floor against a close-out and we make it near-impossible for the opponents to defend everything.
Now that we have Fox and Castle who will never be elite shooters, we can't afford to have subpar shooters in forward positions.

[SpursBills]

Unless we get a KAT-like C who can shoot lights out, we'd be sabotaging ourselves with 2 bigs lineup.
Everyone is going to defend Wemby with long forwards as on-ball defenders. Having another big next to him would just make those matchups natural and easier for opposing bigs to not get exploited.

Get a 6'9-6'11 forward who can shoots lights out and put it on the floor against a close-out and we make it near-impossible for the opponents to defend everything.
Now that we have Fox and Castle who will never be elite shooters, we can't afford to have subpar shooters in forward positions.

Yeah, I agree that the tall long forward who can shoot is the ideal type to put next to him. Let's say for a minute that that type of player isn't available. Do you prefer the 6'7-8" wing type player who can shoot lights out and give up some size and physicality - like a Cam Johnson? Or do you prefer the 7 foot+ 3 point shooting rim protector who gives up a some shooting accuracy and agility to add some physicality and size up front next to Wemby - like a Brook Lopez? Let's assume both of these types of players are available.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, I agree that the tall long forward who can shoot is the ideal type to put next to him. Let's say for a minute that that type of player isn't available. Do you prefer the 6'7-8" wing type player who can shoot lights out and give up some size and physicality - like a Cam Johnson? Or do you prefer the 7 foot+ 3 point shooting rim protector who gives up a some shooting accuracy and agility to add some physicality and size up front next to Wemby - like a Brook Lopez? Let's assume both of these types of players are available.

Tbh, we have that wing in Barnes.
I'd say I prefer Barnes unless it's a very bad matchup where we get killed physically and can't make it up on the other end.

For example Warriors small ball wasn't about amazing defense in itself, but about running the opposing bigs who could exploit them off the floor.
That should be our end goal, imo. No point in playing any other way now that we have Fox.

I said it many times, I'd be fine with just one high end addition this summer, a starting PF.
Naz Reid, Aldama, PJ Washington and John Collins would be my realistic targets.

[exstatic]

Unless we get a KAT-like C who can shoot lights out, we'd be sabotaging ourselves with 2 bigs lineup.
Everyone is going to defend Wemby with long forwards as on-ball defenders. Having another big next to him would just make those matchups natural and easier for opposing bigs to not get exploited.

Get a 6'9-6'11 forward who can shoots lights out and put it on the floor against a close-out and we make it near-impossible for the opponents to defend everything.
Now that we have Fox and Castle who will never be elite shooters, we can't afford to have subpar shooters in forward positions.

1. Jaren Jackson Jr.
2. Jabari Smith Jr.

They can both defend the rim, and shoot the ball, and both will be FAs when we have money in 2026, Smith being restricted, but on a team with many mouths to feed.

[LeBowen]

1. Jaren Jackson Jr.
2. Jabari Smith Jr.

They can both defend the rim, and shoot the ball, and both will be FAs when we have money in 2026, Smith being restricted, but on a team with many mouths to feed.

Can't say JJJ is untouchable considering what just happened, but he's definitely the most important player in Memphis and will be offered max extension. I don't see any indications that he'd refuse it.
Idk about Smith, he just might be available, but we need someone next season, not in 2025.

Naz and Aldama are FA and they could be moved to the bench later on if a better player comes along.
PJ Washington is also FA in 2026 and will probably want out of Dallas dumpster fire this summer.
John Collins would be the emergency solution if other options fail.

And we're off-topic, btw.

[scott]

Unless we get a KAT-like C who can shoot lights out, we'd be sabotaging ourselves with 2 bigs lineup.
Everyone is going to defend Wemby with long forwards as on-ball defenders. Having another big next to him would just make those matchups natural and easier for opposing bigs to not get exploited.

Get a 6'9-6'11 forward who can shoots lights out and put it on the floor against a close-out and we make it near-impossible for the opponents to defend everything.
Now that we have Fox and Castle who will never be elite shooters, we can't afford to have subpar shooters in forward positions.

This is what makes a guy like Trey Murphey so perfect, IMO. He's not just a shooter who you can put your big on in the corner, If you did that, Trey has the athleticism and skills to just abuse that big off the dribble every single time. I think someone like Naz or Lauri would be fine, but they don't bring that next level athleticism like Trey does. With that said, I need to stop thinking about Trey because NOP isn't going to ever go for it :lol Naz/Lauri/Aldama would still be huge. I think Lauri will kind of be out of the question just from the perspective of how many big contracts the Spurs would want to carry, but Naz or Aldama on a 4/100 would be ideal.

[LeBowen]

This is what makes a guy like Trey Murphey so perfect, IMO. He's not just a shooter who you can put your big on in the corner, If you did that, Trey has the athleticism and skills to just abuse that big off the dribble every single time. I think someone like Naz or Lauri would be fine, but they don't bring that next level athleticism like Trey does. With that said, I need to stop thinking about Trey because NOP isn't going to ever go for it :lol Naz/Lauri/Aldama would still be huge. I think Lauri will kind of be out of the question just from the perspective of how many big contracts the Spurs would want to carry, but Naz or Aldama on a 4/100 would be ideal.

I'm actually most intrigued in PJ Washington since the Mavs fiasco happened, if AD wants to play PF, I doubt he'll move to the bench and he's not a natural SF.
He killed OKC in the playoffs last year, the best defender of that bunch and a very good shooter. Also fills the enforcer role.
We just need Mavs fans to do their thing and for him to ask out. :lol