Castle ROTY watch

[John B]

We might as well start this thread with the way Stephon is playing, and IF he continues to start.

[exstatic]

Not going to happen. They really didn’t want to give it to Wemby’s last year, and he was smoking hot after the ASG.

[Mr. Body]

It's kind of amazing league message boards aren't really much talking about him, which is amazing. Like you have to actively ignore what he's doing.

[KDKSpurs24]

Not going to happen. They really didn’t want to give it to Wemby’s last year, and he was smoking hot after the ASG.
There’s no Chet Holmgren type player to compete against. Fair game.

[John B]

Not going to happen. They really didn’t want to give it to Wemby’s last year, and he was smoking hot after the ASG.

Chet though was making a strong case last year, compare to this year’s draft. The early Vegas favorite was Reed but can hardly get his shots with only 3.4 pts average.

[jesterbobman]

Ajay Mitchell has probably been the best Rookie so far, think Stephon gets ahead based on role / mpg and counting stats.

[Rosewood]

Not going to happen. They really didn’t want to give it to Wemby’s last year, and he was smoking hot after the ASG. Yeah I dunno man, you had Miller and Chet performing at an extremely high level almost all year, plus several other players getting important minutes as roleplayers on good teams (Jamie, Amen, Lively, etc)

So far this year hasn’t had even close to that level of rookie class. It’s still early obviously.

[BacktoBasics]

He’s worthy of starting. No other rookie is putting up significant numbers. If they start him then he’s in the discussion. I think he’ll return to the bench when Vassell returns to the starting lineup but I’d love to see Paul, Vassell and Castle start.

[couchman]

This rookie class living down to the third rate billing so far.
Castle looks solid and has a shot at ROTY but so does everyone else.

[DAF86]

If somehow he stays the starter, I think he gets it. There isn't really much competition out there. But I think he goes back to the bench once everybody is healthy though. Still, even off the bench, if they keep playing him around 25 mpg and giving him ball handling duties, this class is so weak that he might still get it.

[John B]

If somehow he stays the starter, I think he gets it. There isn't really much competition out there. But I think he goes back to the bench once everybody is healthy though. Still, if they keep playing him around 25 mpg and giving him ball handling duties, this class is so weak that he might still get it.

Depends on what they’re trying to do this year. If they’re trying to get into the play-in and even the playoffs regardless, then you sit the rookie. But if to continue to develop the players. Castle benefits so much playing with the starters, developing chemistry as the future, then start him. I think he has a chance to make his strong case while Sochan is injured as the best POA defender out there. I think Champ sits once Vassell starts. They seem to overlap duties than Castle/Champ.

[Mr. Body]

Depends on what they’re trying to do this year. If they’re trying to get into the play-in and even the playoffs regardless, then you sit the rookie. But if to continue to develop the players. Castle benefits so much playing with the starters, developing chemistry as the future, then start him. I think he has a chance to make his strong case while Sochan is injured as the best POA defender out there. I think Champ sits once Vassell starts. They seem to overlap duties than Castle/Champ.

It's going to be impossible to get Castle out of the rotation, tbh.

[John B]

It's going to be impossible to get Castle out of the rotation, tbh.

Yup the future is bright with this kid, every game that pass. I doubt the coaches would want to stun that growth. And if he continues to start, there’s a strong case he’s going to perform better, with less pressure off him playing with Wemby, Vassell, CP3, etc taking the pressure. He continues this pace, Spurs gets back-to-back ROTY.

[onechance87]

If castle can hit a decent amout of 3s,Dude can be real good.

[John B]

Doncic-like composure in his rookie year tbh

[NASpurs]

One good thing he has going is having Wemby as a teammate. Castle is going to get more exposure than other rookies because of Wemby being a spotlight in the league. Let's be real, if Wemby wasn't here, the people who vote for ROTY wouldn't be watching our team.

[TheBallsbreakers]

Yup the future is bright with this kid, every game that pass. I doubt the coaches would want to stun that growth. And if he continues to start, there’s a strong case he’s going to perform better, with less pressure off him playing with Wemby, Vassell, CP3, etc taking the pressure. He continues this pace, Spurs gets back-to-back ROTY.
Has that happened before? A team getting back-to-back ROTYs?

[DAF86]

Has that happened before? A team getting back-to-back ROTYs?

I think back in the 60's and 70's.

[scott]

Chet though was making a strong case last year, compare to this year’s draft. The early Vegas favorite was Reed but can hardly get his shots with only 3.4 pts average.

The pre-season favorite was Edey, and he's still the favorite at MGM (tied with Risacher at +325). Castle is currently 6th in betting odds (+1500). Carrington (+650), Sarr (+800), and McCain (+1400) are ahead of him.

Sheppard is down at +6600.

You can get Bronny at +100,000 at DK :lol

[Rosewood]

Has that happened before? A team getting back-to-back ROTYs? Wiggins/KAT in mid 2010s.

[CorrectCrusader]

Castle is killing it. I could see a ROTY run if he keeps this pace

[scott]

But now that you mention it... I'll be in Vegas this week for a few days, might have to put a little bit on Castle for ROTY

[TheBallsbreakers]

Wiggins/KAT in mid 2010s.
Whoa! Thanks!

[exstatic]

It's kind of amazing league message boards aren't really much talking about him, which is amazing. Like you have to actively ignore what he's doing.

That’s actually fairly easy, even common for the NBA media with Spurs players in general.

[Raven]

he wasn't in the first rookie ladder, but he'll likely be in the 3-5 range in the next one. So far Edey and the 3 Washington guys have performed more, but nothing impressive. Stephon very much has looked the best prospect in the draft, and by a considerable margin as well.

[spursgu]

Castle has looked legit, some growing pains early on but he's so poised and doesn't ever seem discouraged.

[Dex]

I love what we were seeing from Castle and hope he continues to start even after Tre and Jeremy come back.

I still think RotY is a stretch unless he significantly increases his scoring. 8.5 points and 2.8 assists per game doesn't necessarily jump off the page.

[RC_Drunkford]

I love what we were seeing from Castle and hope he continues to start even after Tre and Jones come back.

I still think RotY is a stretch unless he significantly increases his scoring. 8.5 points and 2.8 assists per game doesn't necessarily jump off the page.

does he start when Jeremy and Sochan come back?

[The Truth #6]

I think the biggest challenge will be when Tre Jones comes back. Not so much that Castle won't so get minutes, but will he be forced to more of an off the ball role than he is now?

[exstatic]

I love what we were seeing from Castle and hope he continues to start even after Tre and Jones come back.

I still think RotY is a stretch unless he significantly increases his scoring. 8.5 points and 2.8 assists per game doesn't necessarily jump off the page.


does he start when Jremy and Sochan come back?

Is this the new 20131 like thing?

[Dex]

does he start when Jeremy and Sochan come back?

Dammit :lol

[spursparker9]

Not practical for ROTY due to he will lose mins once Sochan and Tre is back. Also Devin have to be in the starting lineup eventually. Castle might be back to the bench soon as it make more sense to put 2 three points threat (dev and julian) with Wemby.

[spursparker9]

It would be a big win if Castle can get into rookie 1st team

[Dex]

Not practical for ROTY due to he will lose mins once Sochan and Tre is back. Also Devin have to be in the starting lineup eventually. Castle might be back to the bench soon as it make more sense to put 2 three points threat (dev and julian) with Wemby.

Julian's hot stretch seems to be cooling down, so Devin should definitely take his spot

Wondering if a lineup of Paul / Castle / Vassell / Sochan / Wemby could eventually pan out, but hard to see Barnes going to the bench

[tesseractive]

Julian's hot stretch seems to be cooling down, so Devin should definitely take his spot

Wondering if a lineup of Paul / Castle / Vassell / Sochan / Wemby could eventually pan out, but hard to see Barnes going to the bench

If everyone gets healthy and Castle looks good enough, we could always trade Barnes before the deadline.

[exstatic]

It would be a big win if Castle can get into rookie 1st team

I think that is a pretty good possibility, since this rookie class is ass.

[Pauleta14]

Who is Castle competing against for ROTY?

I don't see any strong candidates really, if he keeps playing 25'-30' even off the bench as some point, it's his.

[RC_Drunkford]

Who is Castle competing against for ROTY?

I don't see any strong candidates really, if he keeps playing 25'-30' even off the bench as some point, it's his.

He is 8th in scoring. There are a bunch of players who have better stats than him, including 2nd round picks. He'll have to average 10+ ppg to enter into that conversation.

[Mugen]

I don't think he'll have the counting stats if/when the team gets healthy. But I do think in 2-3 years, people are gonna be wondering why he didn't go #1 in this shit draft tbh.

[baseline bum]

He’s worthy of starting. No other rookie is putting up significant numbers. If they start him then he’s in the discussion. I think he’ll return to the bench when Vassell returns to the starting lineup but I’d love to see Paul, Vassell and Castle start.

Damn I hope not. I'm one of the biggest Champagnie fans on this board but Castle has earned his starting spot.

[John B]

I don't think he'll have the counting stats if/when the team gets healthy. But I do think in 2-3 years, people are gonna be wondering why he didn't go #1 in this shit draft tbh.

I think Mitch wants to start him no matter what. If and when Pop comes back is another story. If Mitch continues to do good, shouldn’t he have a good consideration to take over the job?

[james evans]

I love what we were seeing from Castle and hope he continues to start even after Tre and Jeremy come back.

I still think RotY is a stretch unless he significantly increases his scoring. 8.5 points and 2.8 assists per game doesn't necessarily jump off the page.
It's 11 games into the season :rollin. And the guy everyone claims is the favorite is averaing 11 ppg(Edey)

[LeBowen]

I think Mitch wants to start him no matter what. If and when Pop comes back is another story. If Mitch continues to do good, shouldn’t he have a good consideration to take over the job?

We just need one game where CP3 gets rested before Jeremy and Tre are back, I want to see that Castle/Devin/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup.

[Pauleta14]

He is 8th in scoring. There are a bunch of players who have better stats than him, including 2nd round picks. He'll have to average 10+ ppg to enter into that conversation.

He really started his "campain" 2 games ago almost, I don't see another player with same status, with same impact offensively AND defensively

What other players do you see competing with him?

[Raven]

i think Castle wins the roty if he gets to be the pg off the bench with 25mpg.

[John B]

i think Castle wins the roty if he gets to be the pg off the bench with 25mpg.

Has any rookie won ROTY coming off the bench?

[Raven]

Has any rookie won ROTY coming off the bench?
Brogdon

[RC_Drunkford]

He really started his "campain" 2 games ago almost, I don't see another player with same status, with same impact offensively AND defensively

What other players do you see competing with him?

just look up other rookie stats

[Pauleta14]

just look up other rookie stats

I did and can't see any profile that could be a threat. Hence my question

Stephon is only starting since a cple games to "pad" his stats so I don't care about the stats with so few games played, I talking profile, talent and role

[slick'81]

When hes aggressive attacking the rim hes a menace

[DAF86]

I love what we were seeing from Castle and hope he continues to start even after Tre and Jeremy come back.

I still think RotY is a stretch unless he significantly increases his scoring. 8.5 points and 2.8 assists per game doesn't necessarily jump off the page.

Who's doing much better, though?

[LeBowen]

Who's doing much better, though?

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings

Noone is standing out so far.
If you sort by minutes, Castle is 7th, with just 10 rookies having 20mpg or more.
I'd say Carrington has been doing well and obviously Wells, 39th pick.

[John B]

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings

Noone is standing out so far.
If you sort by minutes, Castle is 7th, with just 10 rookies having 20mpg or more.
I'd say Carrington has been doing well and obviously Wells, 39th pick.

That’s 11 games and those guys will fizzle away. If Castle get the chance to start, and I don’t see why not if he continues his excellent plays, I can see him leading his class especially with the impact on both ends of the floor.

[RC_Drunkford]

I did and can't see any profile that could be a threat. Hence my question

Stephon is only starting since a cple games to "pad" his stats so I don't care about the stats with so few games played, I talking profile, talent and role

none of that factors in when it comes to the rookie of the year award. It‘s based on stats not what you think he could be or the eye test. He‘s the best rookie out of this class, but to win it he will have to put up numbers.

[cutewizard]

I wonder if he can make the all defensive team.....?

[Pauleta14]

none of that factors in when it comes to the rookie of the year award. It‘s based on stats not what you think he could be or the eye test. He‘s the best rookie out of this class, but to win it he will have to put up numbers.

smh

I know that thx^^

I'm assuming that he's going to play min 25' the rest of the season with a role and production closer to what he's shown the last 2 games than the previouses. Actually even better, I don't see him getting worse.

BASED ON THAT...

I don't see any other profile that can have the same impact on their team BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT

Then of course hype is another huge factor

[onechance87]

If castle wants that roy award,Its up to him to step up and get it.The comp really aint to hard to compete with.

[Davidicus]

The Wemby thing is real. No ones gonna vote for him on eye test alone,, even if he’s passing that with semi-flying colors right now. He’s gotta put up overwhelming #s where they have to vote for him.

[ambchang]

Won’t be enough shots for him to stat pad.

[Raven]

I wonder if he can make the all defensive team.....?

that is the biggest NO that has ever been written on this forum.

[RC_Drunkford]

smh

I know that thx^^

I'm assuming that he's going to play min 25' the rest of the season with a role and production closer to what he's shown the last 2 games than the previouses. Actually even better, I don't see him getting worse.

BASED ON THAT...

I don't see any other profile that can have the same impact on their team BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT

Then of course hype is another huge factor

he's not gonna average 16.5 PPG and his minutes will decrease once Tre and Jeremy are back. Edey averages 6.6 rebounds per game, Castle is nowhere close to that in any other category. What you see doesn't matter to the people who vote for these awards. They don't watch every game.

[Pauleta14]

he's not gonna average 16.5 PPG and his minutes will decrease once Tre and Jeremy are back. Edey averages 6.6 rebounds per game, Castle is nowhere close to that in any other category. What you see doesn't matter to the people who vote for these awards. They don't watch every game.

Well we're just doing projections, there's no garanteed truth here.

I get your point but I disagree, Castle has shown that he's already more useful than more exp players on the roster and he can be used in 3 positions + with Sochan out he's our bigger body to defend guards.

He'll have a lot of PT imo

Edey has the hype but has a lot of time to be exposed still and already isn't starting as he used to, he's making most of his points in garbage time or vs 2 units.

We'll see, I could be wrong but I have a strong belief Castle can become the obvious 1st choice during the season

Edit ; I agree most don't watch a lot of games, that's why it might take a bit of time, but at some point I think he'll become just obvious bc of the lack of strong other options

[John B]

IF the Spurs continue to win, ESPN will be highlighting because of Wemby. There’s your people to watch Castle. And under an interim coach. There’s a story there so they could keep an eye of the Spurs.

Among the rookies I see Castle having the potential of the most impact on both sides of the court, IF he continues to start. I think Vassell coming back in the SL affects Champ as they overlap more. Tre coming back affects Wesley more. WHEN Sochan comes back is who will affect Castle as both are POA defenders. BUT if Castle is playing great then, I think he could force their arms to sit Barnes instead to not stun his growth… and IF so meaning he’s playing well enough, he would get that ROTY.

So I think it’s more on Castle’s hands than anything. He’s on the driver seat to take advantage of people being out to showcase his skills. There’s a good story there a rookie taking over, TP for one. Brady was the quintessential example. Castle has the game to do so. Let’s see.

[stnick2261]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-november-13-2024-edition

Castle has cracked the top 10 (at #10).



Storyline to watch Better shooting efficiency. So far, Washington’s Alex Sarr is underwater in terms of points per game (9.2) vs. shots per game (9.8). San Antonio’s Stephon Castle is breaking even, with 8.5 of each. It’s often said that shooting is the last piece of the puzzle for new guys and that pattern held last season. By Dec. 1 a year ago, Scoot Henderson, Gradey Dick and Jarace Walker all were averaging more takes than makes but all three cleaned that up by season’s end.

[John B]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-november-13-2024-edition

Castle has cracked the top 10 (at #10).

That’s with 2 starts? Just wait till this guy gets more time as a starter. :ihit

[Raven]

That’s with 2 starts? Just wait till this guy gets more time as a starter. :ihit

i was underwhelmed. As a top4 pick, i would have expected he'd get higher faster, given the competition. Like, how is Ryan Dunn ahead of him?

[exstatic]

i was underwhelmed. As a top4 pick, i would have expected he'd get higher faster, given the competition. Like, how is Ryan Dunn ahead of him?

Who gives a fuck about the rookie ladder? It’s an arbitrary selection from not too bright NBA media.

[Manu-of-steel]

It's because Dunn has better players around him- Durant, Book,Beal

[Mr. Body]

Jared McCain is gonna run away with the ROY.

[Vienna]

Jared McCain is gonna run away with the ROY.

it's kind of embarrassing to quote yourself, but I couldn't resist


as declared on several occasions, I'm also a member of the McCain Club. yes, the combine was a bit disappointing regarding height (I was hoping for like 6'3" and 6'8" wingspan), but didn't change my general view.
so, if the Spurs are in position to choose between him and Sheppard at pick #8, I would pick McCain.
just to add something to your points (to your point 1): tough shots. this is confirmed statistically. I don' remember who brought it up, I think it was Stayman on the locked on podcast, McCain's shooting shows a crazy anomaly as his percentage on guarded 3s was something like 44% and was much higher than unguarded 3s (this was like 40%). almost as if this kids needs a hand in his face to bring the best out of his shooting. he also made such shots from 5 feet behind the line.
so, if there was something like a tough shot statistic, I'm pretty sure he would be on top. and that's something that for sure would translate to the NBA.

[onechance87]

it's kind of embarrassing to quote yourself, but I couldn't resist

nice...Yea he looking like hes figuring the nba out already.76ers looks like got a steal.

[scott]

+1600 as of 2am last night here at MGM… gonna throw a little on that before I leave today.

[Mr. Body]

+1600 as of 2am last night here at MGM… gonna throw a little on that before I leave today.

For McCain?

[John B]

That kid Carrington was pretty impressive. You mean we couldn’t keep him at 8 instead of trading to TWoves? 5.1 assists who can shoot anywhere and very poised. I like Castle but if they really wanted Salaun they could’ve drafted him at 4 and Carrington at 8. Breakdown in 3, 2, 1…

[exstatic]

That kid Carrington was pretty impressive. You mean we couldn’t keep him at 8 instead of trading to TWoves? 5.1 assists who can shoot anywhere and very poised.

Why would you draft PGs at 4 and 8?

[John B]

Why would you draft PGs at 4 and 8?

I edited Salaun at 4, Carrington at 8.

[Raven]

That kid Carrington was pretty impressive. You mean we couldn’t keep him at 8 instead of trading to TWoves? 5.1 assists who can shoot anywhere and very poised. I like Castle but if they really wanted Salaun they could’ve drafted him at 4 and Carrington at 8. Breakdown in 3, 2, 1…

who would want salaun/holland/buzelis .. surely all their fans must have disappeared after two games, no?

[exstatic]

I edited Salaun at 4, Carrington at 8.

If the Spurs wanted Salaun, they would have picked him. He was there. They didn’t, so you’re pretty much just Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Mr. Body]

Watching Salaun play, I really doubt the Spurs actually wanted him. Dude has enthusiasm. That may be about it.

[John B]

who would want salaun/holland/buzelis .. surely all their fans must have disappeared after two games, no?

Salaun is raw but seemed who the Spurs coveted at 8. I’m just playing devils advocate here. I really like Castle and thinks he’d be a 2nd all-star on a contender. But Carrington sure looked good at 14th

[Mugen]

They definitely were targeting Saluan at 8.

He was always going to be a 2-3 year project so any sweeping assertations based on a 10 game sample size in his rookie year is dumb AF :lol

[scott]

They definitely were targeting Saluan at 8.

He was always going to be a 2-3 year project so any sweeping assertations based on a 10 game sample size in his rookie year is dumb AF :lol

Especially coming from the people who say it's too early to judge Branham after a 151 game sample.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Especially coming from the people who say it's too early to judge Branham after a 151 game sample.

:lol:lol

[Strategic]

Just really curious of how Pop will use Castle when he returns.

[Leetonidas]

Just really curious of how Pop will use Castle when he returns.

He's not going to return imho

[spurraider21]

They definitely were targeting Saluan at 8.

He was always going to be a 2-3 year project so any sweeping assertations based on a 10 game sample size in his rookie year is dumb AF :lol
i agree with this

i wasnt a fan of salaun as a lotto pick because of how much of a project he was. but he's exactly the type of player you dont judge based on early returns

[Mr. Body]

They definitely were targeting Saluan at 8.

He was always going to be a 2-3 year project so any sweeping assertations based on a 10 game sample size in his rookie year is dumb AF :lol

There's absolutely no indication they wanted Salaun at 8. None. You may conjecture, but there's zero certainty. Zilcho.

And watching him, again, I completely doubt it. He's far, far far away from contributing.

And comparing him to Branham is a bit of a joke, yeah? Branham won a state championship in high school and was good for OSU. He actually understands how to play basketball. Salaun... doesn't.

I mean, instead of making up stories, actually watch him play.

[Strategic]

He's not going to return imhoSorry I’ve been out of the loop for a few days and didn’t know until this morning that Pop’s diagnosis was let out to the public. Hopefully he can continue to have a good quality of life. Thanks

[Mugen]

There's absolutely no indication they wanted Salaun at 8. None. You may conjecture, but there's zero certainty. Zilcho.

And watching him, again, I completely doubt it. He's far, far far away from contributing.

And comparing him to Branham is a bit of a joke, yeah? Branham won a state championship in high school and was good for OSU. He actually understands how to play basketball. Salaun... doesn't.

I mean, instead of making up stories, actually watch him play.

:lol

Sure, they're not gonna come out and say "We wanted Saluan."

Doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened but maybe I'm giving you too much credit.

By all accounts, the TWolves trade came together very haphazardly on the night of the draft right around the time Charlotte picked Saluan two spots before #8.

Maybe you can say the target was Clingan but it's never been confirmed that he worked out with SA like Saluan did. There were even reports that Saluan tweaked his ankle during the SA workout which just screams smokescreen.

[Mugen]

Especially coming from the people who say it's too early to judge Branham after a 151 game sample.

:lol

[Pauleta14]

Putting the league on notice vs the Fakers... my guy!!!

[couchman]

This kind of high profile performance is what he needs to have a chance at ROTY

[Pauleta14]

Best player of this draft, it's not close

Now he needs to put the numbers to get what's his like Vic did last season

He has to start and close every games

[spursparker9]

Thus far, I feel that Castle is already a better rookie than all the other Spurs drafted players (only) when they were in their rookie year, other than Duncan, Robinson, Manu, Tony, Wemby

[tim_duncan_fan]

Thus far, I feel that Castle is already a better rookie than all the other Spurs drafted players (only) when they were in their rookie year, other than Duncan, Robinson, Manu, Tony, Wemby

Yeah, it took Dejounte about 6 years to get just under Castle's current ability.

[Obstructed_View]

Thus far, I feel that Castle is already a better rookie than all the other Spurs drafted players (only) when they were in their rookie year, other than Duncan, Robinson, Manu, Tony, Wemby
Nephew was pretty good.

[spursparker9]

Nephew was pretty good.

:lol Nephew is erased from Spurs history tbh. Even the commentators Sean and the other guys won't even mentioned his name while they may referenced other Spurs great like Tony, Manu, David etc.

[scott]

Didn’t end up putting any money down on Castle at +1600 while I was in LV. Missed opportunity, although I’m the kind of gambler that if I bet on it, it definitely won’t happen… so no regrets :lol

[Mr. Body]

:lol

Sure, they're not gonna come out and say "We wanted Saluan."

Doesn't take a genius to figure out what happened but maybe I'm giving you too much credit.

By all accounts, the TWolves trade came together very haphazardly on the night of the draft right around the time Charlotte picked Saluan two spots before #8.

Maybe you can say the target was Clingan but it's never been confirmed that he worked out with SA like Saluan did. There were even reports that Saluan tweaked his ankle during the SA workout which just screams smokescreen.

No, the indications are that the Wolves trade came as the Spurs were about to make their pick.

So... just make up stories if you want. Doesn't make them true.

[Bruno]

These are the latest ROTY odds:
Jared McCain +210
Zaccharie Risacher +500
Zach Edey +500
Carlton Carrington +700
Alexandre Sarr +1100
Dalton Knecht +1800
Stephon Castle +1800

McCain is scoring 26.2 ppg over the last 5 games. I guess Castle odds will be a bit better after yesterday's game.

[Uriel]

These are the latest ROTY odds:
Jared McCain +210
Zaccharie Risacher +500
Zach Edey +500
Carlton Carrington +700
Alexandre Sarr +1100
Dalton Knecht +1800
Stephon Castle +1800

McCain is scoring 26.2 ppg over the last 5 games. I guess Castle odds will be a bit better after yesterday's game.
I saw McCain play in person when he was in college and I like him a lot. He’s a microwave scorer that can put a lot of points on the board in a hurry. That said, I definitely don’t think he’s an overall better player than Castle. He can be a better pure scorer when he gets hot, but Castle plays on both ends, and has so many intangibles to his game that are just hard to ignore.

[james evans]

Just really curious of how Pop will use Castle when he returns.
I don't think he's returning, but if he does, Castle is going to the bench or G league.

[exstatic]

I saw McCain play in person when he was in college and I like him a lot. He’s a microwave scorer that can put a lot of points on the board in a hurry. That said, I definitely don’t think he’s an overall better player than Castle. He can be a better pure scorer when he gets hot, but Castle plays on both ends, and has so many intangibles to his game that are just hard to ignore.

ROTY only sometimes winds up being the best player in the class. I mean, Michael Carter-Williams won for one of the Process Sixers teams, and they traded him in the middle of his second season. It’s not an award I place a lot of weight on.

[John B]

I don't think he's returning, but if he does, Castle is going to the bench or G league.

I highly doubt Castle is ever going to the G-League. When Vassell gets the start back, I suspect Champ goes to the bench, and when Sochan gets back, as long as Castle continues the way he’s playing, I think Barnes will and wouldn’t mind going to the bench. He’s a pro. Bottom line, Castle is a big part of the future and his development is 2nd priority only next to Wemby. The kid will be the 2nd All-Star.

[Ice009]

I don't think he's returning, but if he does, Castle is going to the bench or G league.

Why would he get sent to the G-League? That's crazy! He's one of the best players on the team. That doesn't make sense if they were to do that. Are you just speculating, or do you think they actually would do it?

[LeBowen]

I saw McCain play in person when he was in college and I like him a lot. He’s a microwave scorer that can put a lot of points on the board in a hurry. That said, I definitely don’t think he’s an overall better player than Castle. He can be a better pure scorer when he gets hot, but Castle plays on both ends, and has so many intangibles to his game that are just hard to ignore.

Point of attack defenders are invaluable in today's league.
Unless a negative defense guard is a legit 25ppg scorer on good efficency, POA defenders with solid offense are way more valuable for contending teams.

Castle is projected to be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and his offense is way ahead of the expectations.
We got another piece of the long-term puzzle, tbh.

[John B]

Why would he get sent to the G-League? That's crazy! He's one of the best players on the team. That doesn't make sense if they were to do that. Are you just speculating, or do you think they actually would do it?

He’s trolling about Pop. Bless Pop but I doubt he will try to come back. I doubt his kids would let him. Anyways, I think Mitch and the rest are liking what Castle is doing out there. After that ally-op to Wemby and the camera pointed on the coaches, they were consorting and nodding in agreement I would think on Castle. They will want to continue that Castle/Wemby chemistry.

[james evans]

Why would he get sent to the G-League? That's crazy! He's one of the best players on the team. That doesn't make sense if they were to do that. Are you just speculating, or do you think they actually would do it?
I'm just speculating how bad of a coach Popovich has become. He doesn't like playing young players. Had popovich been coaching, Castle wouldn't even be playing this much.

[slick'81]

Just keep castle playing with cp3

[InRareForm]

McCain already seems to be elite with taking it to the rim, creating space for a in the paint pull up, floater, quick shifty fakes to throw off defenders. Not a lot of games but he looks like Roy just from the eye test

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phjyUvyueeg

His BBIQ seems off the chart already

[polandprzem]

I thought Castle gonna start next year as a PG but if he continues to play like that IMO CP should come out of the bench this season.


castle
vassell
champagne
sochan
wemby

[rascal]

Do you guys still want Sheppard over Castle like many would have done if you were the one making the drafting decision for the Spurs.

[dn0774]

Do you guys still want Sheppard over Castle like many would have done if you were the one making the drafting decision for the Spurs.

Lol, I still like the Sheppard pick for Houston, and it’s still crazy early but it is kinda funny Sheppard and Castle are shooting the same % from 3 right now. McCain is running away with RotY as of right now, though. He has the counting stats and efficiency going nicely. Curious to see what his minutes/usage look like when Maxey returns and Embiid rounds into shape.

[Mr. Body]

McCain is what Sheppard and Dillingham were supposed to be, put together.

[onechance87]

I thought Castle gonna start next year as a PG but if he continues to play like that IMO CP should come out of the bench this season.


castle
vassell
champagne
sochan
wemby

whats wrong with cp3 starting?....Seems to be working well for wemby and castle.Why fuk that up?

[tesseractive]

I thought Castle gonna start next year as a PG but if he continues to play like that IMO CP should come out of the bench this season.


castle
vassell
champagne
sochan
wemby

Surely we would trade CP3 rather than move him to the bench.

[SpursBills]

How would you guys rank the following players in terms of projected future performance (excluding contracts)?

Stephon Castle
Amen Thompson
Dyson Daniels
Jalen Suggs

[John B]

You absorb as much from the point-god as you can if you have him. It will be silly to move him to the bench, and I doubt that happens without him wanting out.

[polandprzem]

whats wrong with cp3 starting?....Seems to be working well for wemby and castle.Why fuk that up?

Is it really working? CP of the bench still plays with Wemby.

I'd rather see Castle more of a playmaker not having CP around.

[Raven]

I thought Castle gonna start next year as a PG but if he continues to play like that IMO CP should come out of the bench this season.


castle
vassell
champagne
sochan
wemby

it is crazy how much better this lineup is tbh.. and yet, i am ok with starting cp3

[Raven]

whats wrong with cp3 starting?....Seems to be working well for wemby and castle.Why fuk that up?

well our D is good but not good enough and fast guards end up having season highs.

[BackHome]

I thought Castle gonna start next year as a PG but if he continues to play like that IMO CP should come out of the bench this season.


castle
vassell
champagne
sochan
wemby

Man I really hope we can find another Diamond for the SF position in next draft as we really need that if we want to really compete for a Championship

[sfernald]

Julian's hot stretch seems to be cooling down, so Devin should definitely take his spot

Wondering if a lineup of Paul / Castle / Vassell / Sochan / Wemby could eventually pan out, but hard to see Barnes going to the bench

I am starting to believe Castle / Vassel / Sochan / Wemby are the core four and it’s just a matter of adding experience and a superstar SF with the game of a 6’9” Anthony Edwards and we should be in. That is pretty amazing considering how early it is.

[polandprzem]

Man I really hope we can find another Diamond for the SF position in next draft as we really need that if we want to really compete for a Championship
Inside presents what we need. If that SF can fill that role that would be fine.

[couchman]

Would you still take Sheppard over Castle?
Would you still take Castle over McCain?
Would you still make fun of people who think Edey will be a good player?
Would you take Jaylen Wells #1?

Honestly it’s still too early to make major decisions.
Sheppard is barely getting playing time. 11mins a game.
Despite a recent improvement Castle is still has bad shooting numbers on the year 39/29/68. Has he figured it out or just in a brief hot streak?
Edey has translated his offense to the NBA seamlessly, even making 3pointers, and he hasn’t been played off the floor on defense either, but that will be tested more eventually.
Meanwhile Clingan, who some of us saw as the 3rd best prospect, just had a 17pt 12rb 8block game and is second in the league in block rate just behind Wemby but he’s not been impactful most of the time.
Rissacher is underwhelming so far.
Just too early to know how everyone will turn out.

I am very happy w Castle so far but let’s be honest about confirmation bias.

[Raven]

I think everyone would take Castle number 1 at the moment.

[Dex]

Castle is bringing that Kawhi-like presence even faster than Kawhi did as a rookie. That's the best way I can describe it.

[DAF86]

I think everyone would take Castle number 1 at the moment.

Nah, most teams are still fine with the picks they made. Hawks and Wizards wouldn't change their picks, Blazers and Grizzlies probably wouldn't. The Sixers definitely wouldn't. If anything, McCain is probably the player most teams would choose in a re-draft. We love Castle, but his numbers don't really jump off the page. If you haven't been paying close attention, you don't know how good Castle has been.

[John B]

Still easily the best 2-way player on this draft.

[Uriel]

I think everyone would take Castle number 1 at the moment.
Is this the general consensus or just the biased take of us Spurs fans on this forum?

[spurs10]

Castle is bringing that Kawhi-like presence even faster than Kawhi did as a rookie. That's the best way I can describe it. Good take, he's adapting very quickly. Love watching this guy!

[Russ]

Dalton Knecht might be making a move in the ROTY race.

First, he's a Laker.

Second, he's scored 60 points in his last three games, all Laker wins (self-evident 20/game).

Third, for the season, he's hitting 48.4%, 40.4% from 3 and 100% from the line.

Fourth, he seems to be starting (at least for the short term).

People didn't seem to like his chances because he didn't fit some formulaic pedigree/paradigm. But he can play.

[RC_Drunkford]

Dalton Knecht might be making a move in the ROTY race.

First, he's a Laker.

Second, he's scored 60 points in his last three games, all Laker wins (self-evident 20/game).

Third, for the season, he's hitting 48.4%, 40.4% from 3 and 100% from the line.

Fourth, he seems to be starting (at least for the short term).

People didn't seem to like his chances because he didn't fit some formulaic pedigree/paradigm. But he can play.

but does he smile a lot like Branham?

[Chomag]

Dalton Knecht might be making a move in the ROTY race.

First, he's a Laker.

Second, he's scored 60 points in his last three games, all Laker wins (self-evident 20/game).

Third, for the season, he's hitting 48.4%, 40.4% from 3 and 100% from the line.

Fourth, he seems to be starting (at least for the short term).

People didn't seem to like his chances because he didn't fit some formulaic pedigree/paradigm. But he can play.

Gee, if only Spurs have had a 8th Pick they could have drafted Knetch as well

Oh wait...

[Chomag]

Or Edey, or Carrington and the list goes on.

[Russ]

Gee, if only Spurs have had a 8th Pick they could have drafted Knetch as well

Oh wait...

Personally, I wanted Nikola Topic at 8 or, secondarily, Knecht (although both would have been considered reaches).

[DAF86]

My pick at 8 was Knecht, tbh. :wakeup

[Mr. Body]

Everyone was on Kentucky guard knob or Cody Williams or Buzelis and all those players suck so far. It's been about McCain and Knecht.

[couchman]

Castle’s atrocious shooting tonight won’t help his cause.

[ismael-robert]

Knecht with 9 3s 37pts

[DAF86]

Knecht with 9 3s 37pts

It was a pretty safe bet this guy was gonna produce at the NBA level, tbh.

Still would rather have Castle, though. Much higher upside on both ends of the court. We could have had both if I was the GM, tbh. :wakeup

[The Truth #6]

I was high on McCain and Knecht.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol Nephew is erased from Spurs history tbh. Even the commentators Sean and the other guys won't even mentioned his name while they may referenced other Spurs great like Tony, Manu, David etc.

Lmao fair enough. I'm not really angry about what he did, but I'm definitely bitter. Happy to pretend he doesn't exist. Also, his rookie year wasn't that great.

[Obstructed_View]

Knecht looks like a solid player. He's almost 24 so he should be the most developed rookie right now. No excuse for the Spurs trading away 8, IMO.

[spursparker9]

What happened to the other older rookie Devin Carter? Did he even played 1 game yet?

[Mr. Body]

Knecht and McCain are exploding and that's great for them. A big issue for both of them will be their defense. I don't think either will ever be a good defender.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

We fucked up not picking someone with the 8th pick. Knecht would've been unreal.

[Pauleta14]

Castle’s atrocious shooting tonight won’t help his cause.

He definitely needs to put some numbers for the medias who only value offence, but just listening to 99% of observers, they're impressed.

He's by far the best 2 way player of the draft.

[couchman]

I said before the draft that Knecht’s game reminds me of Devin Booker.
He takes a lot of the same shots, has similar form and moves, is the same size, and when they get hot they can pour in a ton of points.
I still see Knecht’s floor as a poor man’s Booker

[8FOR!3]

Stephon Castle's floor seems to be elite role player starter and his ceiling seems to be All-NBA. I have no idea how good he will get but at his worst he is a way better than average passer/playmaker and defender and athlete. I really want him to model himself after SGA's game. I think he is capable of having that sort of ceiling.

[tim_duncan_fan]

It seems that he will be at least as good as Derrick White if he even slightly evolves at all in the next 15 years.

A current, actualized floor of Derrick White at age 20 is fantastic. What will he be in 2, 5, 7 years?

Great pick, PATFO.

[Seventyniner]

One thing I have noticed about Castle is that he will throw lobs to anyone, not just Wemby. Of course Collins and Bassey can only try to tap the passes in instead of dunking them like Wemby would, but I like that Castle keeps pressuring the defense.

[tim_duncan_fan]

You can tell he was trying to personally put the foot on OKC's neck himself last night, but shots weren't going in and then passes were being errant too.

You can tell there will be nights where he is just an unstoppable engine. Euro steps, lobs, no looks, 3s, he's gonna have a showcase game very soon.

[John B]

You can tell he was trying to personally put the foot on OKC's neck himself last night, but shots weren't going in and then passes were being errant too.

You can tell there will be nights where he is just an unstoppable engine. Euro steps, lobs, no looks, 3s, he's gonna have a showcase game very soon.

What we’re seeing is very unpolished version of his potential. He wasn’t rattled despite 1-7 from 3pts and 7 TO with 8 assists. It’s not the lack of trying. I’m sure the coaches are encouraging just keep shooting and creating. Those baskets will go in and he’ll clean-up TO’s. And when he do, watch out because he’s a big guard who’s not shy on shoving on the defenders face.

[spurraider21]

once we learned that both our picks were top 8 i wasnt really considering McCain. i had knecht on the list of guys i'd be cool with at 8. he wasnt at the very top of my board there but i definitely preferred him over a 7th grader

[tim_duncan_fan]

What we’re seeing is very unpolished version of his potential. He wasn’t rattled despite 1-7 from 3pts and 7 TO with 8 assists. It’s not the lack of trying. I’m sure the coaches are encouraging just keep shooting and creating. Those baskets will go in and he’ll clean-up TO’s. And when he do, watch out because he’s a big guard who’s not shy on shoving on the defenders face.

That's pretty much what CP3 said after the game, that he stays talking to Castle to keep him aggressive. If LeBron and CP3 think he is good, I believe it.

[RC_Drunkford]

Once he can punish defenders for going under the screen (by having a reliable jump shot) he will be a monster

[spurraider21]

i dont think he'll have the volume for rookie of the year but he should very well make an all-rookie team and get a look at the rising stars thing

[Leetonidas]

That's pretty much what CP3 said after the game, that he stays talking to Castle to keep him aggressive. If LeBron and CP3 think he is good, I believe it.

Agree but I also recall Draymond claiming Keldon would be an all star if he slimmed down and that was obviously bullshit :lol obviously different tier of player than CP3 or LBJ but still, have to take players perspective with a grain of salt

[tim_duncan_fan]

Agree but I also recall Draymond claiming Keldon would be an all star if he slimmed down and that was obviously bullshit :lol obviously different tier of player than CP3 or LBJ but still, have to take players perspective with a grain of salt

Not to glaze LeBron, but he was also excited about Knect before they were teammates. He might know a little something lol

[Leetonidas]

Not to glaze LeBron, but he was also excited about Knect before they were teammates. He might know a little something lol

He also said Bronny was better than some guys on his team last year and we all know Bronny is not even an NBA level player :lol he also is the one who advocated for Lakers to trade for Westbrook which was a huge fail.

[stnick2261]

Storyline to watch Stephon Castle is on the rise. The San Antonio guard’s eight double-figure scoring games have come in the Spurs’ nine most recent games — all since assistant Mitch Johnson stepped in for ailing coach Gregg Popovich (https://www.nba.com/news/gregg-popovich-suffered-mild-stroke-nov-2). And with franchise guy Victor Wembanyama sidelined the past two games, Castle developed a nice chemistry with backup big Charles Bassey. Castle and the Spurs have two games this week vs. Utah, sandwiched around an NBA Cup game against Golden State on Saturday at home.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-november-20-2024-edition

Castle has moved up the spot #6

[tim_duncan_fan]

He also said Bronny was better than some guys on his team last year and we all know Bronny is not even an NBA level player :lol he also is the one who advocated for Lakers to trade for Westbrook which was a huge fail.

oof lmao, let's hope he is right in this instance

[John B]

Castle should be climbing up the ROTY discussion with closing these types of games

[scott]

Expect Castle to be top 3 on the rookie ladder next week, though Wells did have a huge game tonight.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

This is why I don't ever buy into the draft analysts' telling people that XY or Z year is some impossibly bad draft. The 2024 draft looked pretty solid to me all year, and low and behold -- looks like there will be several real guys coming out of it.

[exstatic]

This is why I don't ever buy into the draft analysts' telling people that XY or Z year is some impossibly bad draft. The 2024 draft looked pretty solid to me all year, and lo and behold -- looks like there will be several real guys coming out of it.
Several isn’t a lot, and doesn’t make it a good, or even average draft. No draft is devoid of talent,not even the blecherous 2000 disaster. There are simply drafts with a few good picks, and drafts with a lot. When they say it’s a bad draft, it doesn’t mean there isn’t any talent, it just means there isn’t much.

[John B]

Several isn’t a lot, and doesn’t make it a good, or even average draft. No draft is devoid of talent,not even the blecherous 2000 disaster. There are simply drafts with a few good picks, and drafts with a lot. When they say it’s a bad draft, it doesn’t mean there isn’t any talent, it just means there isn’t much.

Agree. When your top 3 picks are not even in ROTY discussion, and you have McCain, Knecht and Wells leading the ladder, I’d call it a pretty weak draft. But I still think Castle will eventually be in the mix

[exstatic]

Agree. When your top 3 picks are not even in ROTY discussion, and you have McCain, Knecht and Wells leading the ladder, I’d call it a pretty weak draft. But I still think Castle will eventually be in the mix
I think in a 3 year re-draft he would go #1. Teams underestimated his court vision, passing, and ability to get to the rim using physicality and balance and not speed. His defense is also way better than even I thought. Everyone obsessed over the shot.

[Mal]

Agree. When your top 3 picks are not even in ROTY discussion, and you have McCain, Knecht and Wells leading the ladder, I’d call it a pretty weak draft. But I still think Castle will eventually be in the mix

Sarr and Risacher where drafted for that raw talent and potental. They played outside US, so adaptation is part of process.

[John B]

Sarr and Risacher were drafted for that raw talent and potental. They played outside US, so adaptation is part of process.

Wemby texted he played international also and very much a stick. Doncic I think was putting up triple-double in his rookie year? Yao Ming?? Playing international has nothing to do with it. I’m hoping Castle will have a Kawhi-esque impact on both sides of the court, but it’s very difficult to say there will be a franchise player on this years draft.

[Mugen]

Neither McCain or Knecht are coming close to what Castle is doing on the defensive end. Those guys are cones tbh.

I haven't watched the Grizz at all those year to have an opinion on Wells.

I doubt they'd give a Spur the ROTY in b2b years but I don't see how Castle isn't top 2-3 by year's end if he stays healthy tbh.

[Mal]

Wemby texted he played international also and very much a stick. Doncic I think was putting up triple-double in his rookie year? Yao Ming?? Playing international has nothing to do with it. I’m hoping Castle will have a Kawhi-esque impact on both sides of the court, but it’s very difficult to say there will be a franchise player on this years draft.

Wemby is an alien, way above any other prospect, probably ever.

Doncic was playing in euroleague at age 16, NBA teams wiffed on him badly

Risacher was playing french league and eurocup, which are not top tier league, in middle of the pack team. Sarr was playing in Australia, god knows on what level basketball is being played there.

[Obstructed_View]

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings

[Dejounte]

Sarr and Risacher where drafted for that raw talent and potental. They played outside US, so adaptation is part of process.

I think it’s exactly the opposite. Sarr and Risacher came off of professional Euroleague basketball. They’re supposed to be ready compared to the NCAA.

[Knoxxx]

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-rookie-rankings

Right now I'd go:

1) McCain
2) Edey
3) Knecht
4) Castle

We probably blew the #8 pick when we could have had one of the above other players. But, that will take a long time to play out having punted the pick to 2030-31. We will start to have a better idea though next year with who we add from the 25 draft class. If we find one player better than McCain or Knecht I like how that is looking.

The answer as to why we punted the #8 pick may be simply because we knew we could afford to.

McCain is on a terrible team, so I think that hurts him. If the Lakers keep winning and Knecht keeps shooting so highly, he may emerge as the favorite and is trending well. I like our odds to have Castle beat out Edey based on the way I like to hope or guess this season is trending and Castle being a riser that keeps getting strong minutes.

[ambchang]

I haven’t watched too much McCain or edey. Watched some knecht and as much as he is a strong finisher, his defence is suspect as best. Really good concept of spacing on offence and quick shots. I’m not sure about his creation yet. Have to watch more. I know people hate this comparison but he really does remind me of McDermott quite a bit.

Edey, of the few highlights, slow, but effective in the paint, almost robotic in his ability to carve out space and score. Ridiculously strong. His style of play does clog up the lane and I’m not sure if he’s good enough to be the centrepiece of an offence, so he’s hard to build around. His lateral movement seems to be very slow. Again just mostly highlights so could be totally off the rails.

[Mr. Body]

Right now I'd go:

1) McCain
2) Edey
3) Knecht
4) Castle

We probably blew the #8 pick when we could have had one of the above other players. But, that will take a long time to play out having punted the pick to 2030-31. We will start to have a better idea though next year with who we add from the 25 draft class. If we find one player better than McCain or Knecht I like how that is looking.

The answer as to why we punted the #8 pick may be simply because we knew we could afford to.

McCain is on a terrible team, so I think that hurts him. If the Lakers keep winning and Knecht keeps shooting so highly, he may emerge as the favorite and is trending well. I like our odds to have Castle beat out Edey based on the way I like to hope or guess this season is trending and Castle being a riser that keeps getting strong minutes.

I think they were wary of a roster slot and guaranteed salary to a rookie they couldn't entirely count on being good. It's easy to say they should have picked McCain or Knecht when there were a lot of players available there and it could have just as easily have been Williams or Buzelis. We don't get to pick players in retrospect. If they passed on Dillingham, they were likely going to pass on McCain as well. Both small no-defense guards.

As far as using the pick, the cap space they had was pretty much exactly enough to absorb Chris Paul's salary from Golden State. Maybe throw a couple second round picks or whatever. IMO this was their #1 goal, to get veterans, and taking the pick would mean doing so was impossible as far as CP goes. It turns out not only did they get CP but they still got another veteran out of that cap space.

So... the calculus is this... [a swing at one of a number of rookies, many of whom are not great] vs. Chris Paul, Harrison Barnes + future pick, future swap, future swap.

Personally, I think the long-term boost CP and HB will provide this team even with one or two years with them will be more valuable than even Knecht or McCain would be. If you factor in the likelihood that the pick would have been someone else, this is a no-brainer.

[Knoxxx]

I think they were wary of a roster slot and guaranteed salary to a rookie they couldn't entirely count on being good. It's easy to say they should have picked McCain or Knecht when there were a lot of players available there and it could have just as easily have been Williams or Buzelis. We don't get to pick players in retrospect. If they passed on Dillingham, they were likely going to pass on McCain as well. Both small no-defense guards.

As far as using the pick, the cap space they had was pretty much exactly enough to absorb Chris Paul's salary from Golden State. Maybe throw a couple second round picks or whatever. IMO this was their #1 goal, to get veterans, and taking the pick would mean doing so was impossible as far as CP goes. It turns out not only did they get CP but they still got another veteran out of that cap space.

So... the calculus is this... [a swing at one of a number of rookies, many of whom are not great] vs. Chris Paul, Harrison Barnes + future pick, future swap, future swap.

Personally, I think the long-term boost CP and HB will provide this team even with one or two years with them will be more valuable than even Knecht or McCain would be. If you factor in the likelihood that the pick would have been someone else, this is a no-brainer.

I thought Knecht was a no brainer at 8 because of how badly we needed shooting. The only question mark I had was his defense, time will tell on that, but he looks like a long-term NBA solid player.

[Mr. Body]

I thought Knecht was a no brainer at 8 because of how badly we needed shooting. The only question mark I had was his defense, time will tell on that, but he looks like a long-term NBA solid player.

He's pretty old for a rookie, doesn't do much other than shoot, and is a poor defender. Some of those may change (other than the age), but those aren't things the team is looking for right now. They seem to be prioritizing 1) veterans, which they got, and 2) multi-use players with size, like Castle. Not disagreeing that Knecht could have been their guy, but they ultimately saw the value of keeping the space and going for their 1) goal, which worked.

[exstatic]

I thought Knecht was a no brainer at 8 because of how badly we needed shooting. The only question mark I had was his defense, time will tell on that, but he looks like a long-term NBA solid player.

We would not have Harrison Barnes right now if we drafted Knecht.

[ginobilized]

Castle is definitely the best 2-way player among his class.
If Castle keeps improving and avoids injury, he will be in the running, no doubt.

[DAF86]

We would not have Harrison Barnes right now if we drafted Knecht.

That's not a good excuse at all. You don't avoid drafting a guy that can give you a good 10 to 15 years just to get a veteran that can give you a couple good ones at most.

[rjv]

Castle is definitely the best two-way player of this rookie class.

[LeBowen]

Castle is definitely the best two-way player of this rookie class.

He's already one of the better guard defenders in the league.
Who's better? Jrue, Derrick, Caruso, Smart, SGA, Suggs, KCP...and that would be about it? I'm not counting 6'8 guys like Herb as guards.

[Tyronn Lue]

That's not a good excuse at all. You don't avoid drafting a guy that can give you a good 10 to 15 years just to get a veteran that can give you a couple good ones at most.
Agreed, at least not Harrison Barnes. But it depends on the goal. Developing 3 or 4 new guys with high potential with a sunsetting coach would be difficult at best. When you have Victor, maybe the focus needs to be to get enough veteran presence around him to develop him, understanding other, less brilliant diamonds are going elsewhere. Basically those rookies probably don't help develop Victor, since there's only one ball.

[SpursBills]

Dyson Daniels, Anthony Black, Amen Thompson, and Castle are going to be an interesting group to watch moving forward. All about 6'6"-6'7", lead guard skills, great defenders, read the game well, questionable jump shots going into the draft

Pre-draft, I would have probably had 1) Thompson 2a/2b) Castle/Daniels 3) Black

Today as perimeter defenders, by my eye it's probably 1) Daniels 2) Thompson 3) Black 4) Castle with Castle being the youngest and least experienced of the 4, which roughly tracks based on defensive EPM

The big swing factor is the jumper - Castle's looks like it's going to translate the best and that will be huge moving forward for his potential as a lead guard

If you asked me to pick today based on how their careers pan out, it's probably 1) Castle 2) Thompson 3) Daniels 4) Black

[Cabrito]

On the Warriors broadcast last night, they were talking about the Spurs getting Paul and Barnes and brought up Terry Cummings playing with the Warriors at the end of his career. Cummings commented that “young players don’t need more younger players.” Our young players need to learn how to win and get the stench of losing out of the building. We didn’t need yet another young player to develop with the 8th pick. McCain and Knecht are nice players, but I am not going to hand wring over getting Barnes and future draft capital over them.

[Mr. Body]

That's not a good excuse at all. You don't avoid drafting a guy that can give you a good 10 to 15 years just to get a veteran that can give you a couple good ones at most.

Again, this is retrospective thinking. It's easy to look back and say a team should have picked the obviously good player now. At the time it wasn't clear Knecht was going to stand out. Every draft pick has a range of outcomes and they decided not to take the pick. It's not like they decided against present moment Dalton Knecht.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't see trading the 8th pick as a big deal tbh. Before the draft I still didn't know who I would've drafted with that pick and said I'd most likely trade it. There were some nice players to have, but our roster is decent and we got enough picks coming in. None of those players would move the needle much.

[DAF86]

Again, this is retrospective thinking. It's easy to look back and say a team should have picked the obviously good player now. At the time it wasn't clear Knecht was going to stand out. Every draft pick has a range of outcomes and they decided not to take the pick. It's not like they decided against present moment Dalton Knecht.

It isn't retrospective thinking. Many saw Knecht as safe a prospect can get to stick in the league (outside of generational talents). His shooting, size, underrated athletic ability and high IQ made him a very likely prospect to become a rotation player right away.

Proof:


Unlike most prospects in this draft (ike Castle, Holland, Williams, Salaun, etc.) this guy seems like a sure thing to stick in the league, at least as a rotation guy, imho.

[exstatic]

It isn't retrospective thinking. For a non generational prospect ala Wemby or Lebron many saw Knecht as safe a prospect as it can get to stick in the league. His shooting, size, underrated athletic ability and high IQ made him a very likely prospect to become a rotation player right away.

Proof:

That’s not proof, it’s an opinion.

[TimmyBuckets]

His numbers won't be high enough.

[DAF86]

That’s not proof, it’s an opinion.

It is proof of people seeing Knecht as a safe prospect and not being retrospective thinking, which is exactly what I said:


It isn't retrospective thinking. Many saw Knecht as safe a prospect can get to stick in the league (outside of generational talents). His shooting, size, underrated athletic ability and high IQ made him a very likely prospect to become a rotation player right away.

Proof:

[baseline bum]

I don't see trading the 8th pick as a big deal tbh. Before the draft I still didn't know who I would've drafted with that pick and said I'd most likely trade it. There were some nice players to have, but our roster is decent and we got enough picks coming in. None of those players would move the needle much.

Yeah I was rooting for Buzelis or Cody Williams at #8 once Holland went #5 and in retrospect not too disappointed about missing out on either now, though I'd still have loved to have gotten Holland despite his rough start. Once Dillingham measured way below what he was listed I was out on him, especially after the Spurs were virtually guaranteed to get one of Castle or Sheppard at #4. It's still funny talking about the 20131 dream though. :lol

[scott]

Yeah I was rooting for Buzelis or Cody Williams at #8 once Holland went #5 and in retrospect not too disappointed about missing out on either now, though I'd still have loved to have gotten Holland despite his rough start. Once Dillingham measured way below what he was listed I was out on him, especially after the Spurs were virtually guaranteed to get one of Castle or Sheppard at #4. It's still funny talking about the 20131 dream though. :lol

Buzelis actually starting to show something the last few games now that he's getting more minutes. Still to early to say anything about this class, really.

[100%duncan]

He should be in the running. He should be a starter even when all guys are healthy, because he's that good already. If he ups his per games to like 16-18ppg, 4 rpg, 5apg I don't see why he can't win.

Mccain may fizzle out or regress to the mean. And Knecth just doesn't impress me enough for ROY status yet, though I wanted him at 8. Knecth will have the propaganda with him though, LA media and all.

[playbonner15]

If Castle can have multiple 18-20 plus pt games this season, he might have a chance. But it's gonna be McCain or Knecht for now

[spursparker9]

McCain will be ROY. He is the only one with the free rein to take any kind of shots he want and he make it look effortless too

[T Park]

That's not a good excuse at all. You don't avoid drafting a guy that can give you a good 10 to 15 years just to get a veteran that can give you a couple good ones at most.

Mits not an excuse it’s how the cap works

[T Park]

McCain will be ROY. He is the only one with the free rein to take any kind of shots he want and he make it look effortless too

Castle has that freedom as well, the last week and a half has shown that.

[sfernald]

We are so lucky to have drafted Castle, it’s probably greedy to even dream of getting one of the other best players from this draft. But then to keep up with the best we almost have to.

Okc nabbed Ajay who looks like an amazing rookie from the 2nd round and Topic who still might end up being the best actual player from this draft.

Memphis also seems to have managed to get multiple great players from this draft in Wells and Edey.

I just don’t understand why spurs org seems to believe they couldn’t possibly handle more than one rookie on a team year to year. I guess they did try it the Sochan/Branham/Wesley year. Actually yeah maybe that scared them away huh and rightly so.

[Mal]

I think it’s exactly the opposite. Sarr and Risacher came off of professional Euroleague basketball. They’re supposed to be ready compared to the NCAA.

Sarr did not play in Euroleague. Risacher was on Euroleague roster, but once he was ready to play on this level, he was transfered to Bourg,where he played in, let`s call it, Euroleague`s 2nd division. Nowhere to compare with 18 yrs Luka

[DAF86]

Mits not an excuse it’s how the cap works

A rookie doesn't change your cap in any significant way, tbh.

[exstatic]

A rookie doesn't change your cap in any significant way, tbh.

Trading #8 allowed us to get Barnes. The #8 salary isn’t huge, but the cap hold would have blocked that Sacto trade from happening. For Sacto to get DeRozan,they needed to trade Barnes 100% into cap room,no players back.

I’d call Barnes and the swap significant.

[DAF86]

Trading #8 allowed us to get Barnes. The #8 salary isn’t huge, but the cap hold would have blocked that Sacto trade from happening. For Sacto to get DeRozan,they needed to trade Barnes 100% into cap room,no players back.

I’d call Barnes and the swap significant.

As much as I love what Barnes has been doing, I would rather have Knecht, tbh.

In any case, there are lots of other moves the Spurs could have made to get both Knecht and Barnes. It's not like trading away #8 was the only way to make room. That's why I said it's not significant.

[exstatic]

As much as I love what Barnes has been doing, I would rather have Knecht, tbh.

In any case, there are lots of other moves the Spurs could have made to get both Knecht and Barnes. It's not like trading away #8 was the only way to make room. That's why I said it's not significant.

I have to argue that statement. As it is, just to get Barnes, they had to cut Bassey’s very cheap and reasonable deal, and get Paul to take $1M less. Opening any more cap room would have required pick assets, which then directly go to the cost of acquiring Knecht.

There are other fish in the sea, a number of shooters coming out in this draft, and some of them may even play defense.

[Pauleta14]

McCain will be ROY. He is the only one with the free rein to take any kind of shots he want and he make it look effortless too

I don't think so.

Ppl will start watching, opponent game planning, teammates come back and the hype will come down for McCain. Take away his ability to draw fouls and it's not that impressive + he sucks on D.

Castle on the other hand, will keep growing bc Spurs don't have anyone else with his skill set, and he's clearly gained the trust of coaches and teammates with his maturity.

I just listened to Sam Vecenie's podcast and they're all starting to be bluffed ... as expected. It'll spread around the league bc Castle is REALLY special in so many aspects.

[sfernald]

I don't think so.

Ppl will start watching, opponent game planning, teammates come back and the hype will come down for McCain. Take away his ability to draw fouls and it's not that impressive + he sucks on D.

Castle on the other hand, will keep growing bc Spurs don't have anyone else with his skill set, and he's clearly gained the trust of coaches and teammates with his maturity.

I just listened to Sam Vecenie's podcast and they're all starting to be bluffed ... as expected. It'll spread around the league bc Castle is REALLY special in so many aspects.

I do think Castle will end up being the best rookie from this class. He’s just growing by leaps and bounds so fast. But I’m not sure people outside of spurs fans will recognize with the way he has such a balanced game. Sometimes it’s really subtle things like playing inspired defense on an important position or getting a rebound at just the right time. He’s a real momentum swinger.

[Pauleta14]

I do think Castle will end up being the best rookie from this class. He’s just growing by leaps and bounds so fast. But I’m not sure people outside of spurs fans will recognize with the way he has such a balanced game. Sometimes it’s really subtle things like playing inspired defense on an important position or getting a rebound at just the right time. He’s a real momentum swinger.

Because nobody watch the Spurs bro, media included... yet at least

It'll be like Wemby last season and become the overwhelming choice even for the haters.

The West isn't as strong as I expected, between injuries, new players etc Spurs will start making some noise and Castle is an American kid (and hope) and I'm sure it'll play in the attention Spurs get as much as Wemby

It's still very early in the season

[spurraider21]

I haven’t watched too much McCain or edey. Watched some knecht and as much as he is a strong finisher, his defence is suspect as best. Really good concept of spacing on offence and quick shots. I’m not sure about his creation yet. Have to watch more. I know people hate this comparison but he really does remind me of McDermott quite a bit.

Edey, of the few highlights, slow, but effective in the paint, almost robotic in his ability to carve out space and score. Ridiculously strong. His style of play does clog up the lane and I’m not sure if he’s good enough to be the centrepiece of an offence, so he’s hard to build around. His lateral movement seems to be very slow. Again just mostly highlights so could be totally off the rails.
i mean, even if he doesnt create off the dribble, its not just that he spaces the floor. he's already an incredible movement shooter, and that alone basically functions as creation, just off-ball creation.

the mcdermott comparison is apt as far as his offensive game right now, but he does seem to be a little better at the non catch and shoot stuff. still, him being at that level as a rookie is pretty promising. an older rookie, yes, but still a rookie. just depends on how competent he can become defensively. i know Korver became at least a reasonable defensive player during his career. and he even made an all star team.

edey seems basically as expected. he's just bigger and stronger than other centers and will be able to get his jump hook off. his length can cause problems defensively but his movement on that end has also been poor. he's averaging 1.8 blocks per 36 which is fine but not great. he's also been somewhat turnover prone for a guy who doesnt really do much handling. i still think clingan is going to be more effective even if edey will be the better 1 on 1 scorer. clingan ended up being one of the guys i liked in the draft to take at #8. put the collins/bassey question to rest by just replacing both with another specimen. and if he and wemby could ever learn to coexist on the floor it would be an absurd twin towers situation. but he got taken at 7

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't think so.

Ppl will start watching, opponent game planning, teammates come back and the hype will come down for McCain. Take away his ability to draw fouls and it's not that impressive + he sucks on D.

Castle on the other hand, will keep growing bc Spurs don't have anyone else with his skill set, and he's clearly gained the trust of coaches and teammates with his maturity.

I just listened to Sam Vecenie's podcast and they're all starting to be bluffed ... as expected. It'll spread around the league bc Castle is REALLY special in so many aspects.

I think Knecht will get it. People love scoring and Castle isn't quite there yet but man is he getting better by the day.

[Pauleta14]

I think Knecht will get it. People love scoring and Castle isn't quite there yet but man is he getting better by the day.

The Lakers factor can't be underestimated I agree, but Castle won't be close to where he is today in 3-4 months, again mostly bc Spurs just don't have anyone else who can do what he does.

He's the only one that can penetrate with passing abilities and court awareness, same for his ball handling and abilities to create space on offence.

On defence no one defends like him 1vs1, not even Sochan and as long as this one is out Castle is the only versatile one (aside Wemby obviously)

Baring any injuries, I think he'll (slowly bc he plays for the Spurs) become obvious to most observers.

[rjv]

Because nobody watch the Spurs bro, media included... yet at least

It'll be like Wemby last season and become the overwhelming choice even for the haters.

The West isn't as strong as I expected, between injuries, new players etc Spurs will start making some noise and Castle is an American kid (and hope) and I'm sure it'll play in the attention Spurs get as much as Wemby

It's still very early in the season

that seems to be changing. windhorst's podcast crew were gushing over Castle today (and figuring out how to pronounce his first name), and the Athletic crew were mentioning how they look to see if the Spurs are playing on any given night because they consider the Spurs to be a fun watch. )ESPN is a whole different story but that group will always be about the big markets. i hope that the TNT crew can maintain their "i don't have to fall in line and talk about the Lakers all the time" stance.)

[Pauleta14]

that seems to be changing. windhorst's podcast crew were gushing over Castle today (and figuring out how to pronounce his first name), and the Athletic crew were mentioning how they look to see if the Spurs are playing on any given night because they consider the Spurs to be a fun watch. )ESPN is a whole different story but that group will always be about the big markets. i hope that the TNT crew can maintain their "i don't have to fall in line and talk about the Lakers all the time" stance.)

Check Vecenie's podcast, I might be in the minority (only 13k subs) but I enjoy his work and analysis, he raved about Castle too. Most real basketball fans/observers will agree fast.

But as much as we hate it ESPN or the big podcasts like Gil Arena's etc who just never watch and spit clichés at best are the ones creating the hype, they need more time to watch the same amount of games than the Lakers or Sixers to finally realise.

Wemby had the same handicap last season when for any true observer the ROY race was over by January when it lasted a cple more month until Vic shut Chet down with THAT block on the mainstream media.

It's going to be the same for Stephon even if I have some hope bc he's American and the US need a new elite generation at PG and I don't see anyone with a higher ceiling than him.

[SpursBills]

My hope is that a Castle/Sochan perimeter duo can replicate what Rockets fans hope that Amen Thompson/Tari Eason can be currently and moving forward. The Rockets duo is about 2 years older than the Spurs duo, but they are a straight menace defensively and probably the two most valuable players currently on the Rockets. Houston really fucked up the Jalen Green pick, as a Mobley/Amen/Eason lineup with shooters would have been legitimately scary in the playoffs and similar to what I hope the spurs can build in the future.

Put Castle/Sochan together with Wemby behind them as opposed to Sengun and you've got the makings of a potentially generational defense. Wemby becoming a high volume 3 point shooter would help a lot of inevitable spacing issues from that group as well.

[Seventyniner]

My hope is that a Castle/Sochan perimeter duo can replicate what Rockets fans hope that Amen Thompson/Tari Eason can be currently and moving forward. The Rockets duo is about 2 years older than the Spurs duo, but they are a straight menace defensively and probably the two most valuable players currently on the Rockets. Houston really fucked up the Jalen Green pick, as a Mobley/Amen/Eason lineup with shooters would have been legitimately scary in the playoffs and similar to what I hope the spurs can build in the future.

Put Castle/Sochan together with Wemby behind them as opposed to Sengun and you've got the makings of a potentially generational defense. Wemby becoming a high volume 3 point shooter would help a lot of inevitable spacing issues from that group as well.

Castle/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby might be your ideal lineup then, at least considering who is on the roster right now. No minus defenders and three volume three point shooters. This assumes that Castle can be a passable floor spacer, hopefully he can get there.

[Joseph Kony]

idk if this has been posted yet:

1861167808912203994

[SpursBills]

Castle/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby might be your ideal lineup then, at least considering who is on the roster right now. No minus defenders and three volume three point shooters. This assumes that Castle can be a passable floor spacer, hopefully he can get there.

You are right, this would be my ideal lineup but is really predicated on significant playmaking development from Vassell. I really liked what I saw from him at the end of last season but so far in limited games this season I think he's backslid in that department. If he's going to revert back to old bad habits and his defense continues to go downhill this lineup really isn't going to work.

[CGD]

Castle/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby might be your ideal lineup then, at least considering who is on the roster right now. No minus defenders and three volume three point shooters. This assumes that Castle can be a passable floor spacer, hopefully he can get there.

Definitely think this is the future vision, with use of the draft to:
1) upgrade the Champ position, and
2) draft a potential Vassell replacement for down the road given injuries.

[ismael-robert]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-november-27-2024-edition

[objective]

I have to argue that statement. As it is, just to get Barnes, they had to cut Bassey’s very cheap and reasonable deal, and get Paul to take $1M less. Opening any more cap room would have required pick assets, which then directly go to the cost of acquiring Knecht.

There are other fish in the sea, a number of shooters coming out in this draft, and some of them may even play defense.

I had completely forgotten about the Bassey cut. How many years of control did the Spurs lose in the process? 1, 2, or 3?

I think it was maybe 2 cheap seasons after this one guaranteed while now he'll be a free agent this summer? Is that correct?

[SpursGenius]

Trading #8 allowed us to get Barnes. The #8 salary isn’t huge, but the cap hold would have blocked that Sacto trade from happening. For Sacto to get DeRozan,they needed to trade Barnes 100% into cap room,no players back.

I’d call Barnes and the swap significant.
one or two years to eff up our tank mode ? whats the point. Rather have a shot at Flagg Ace Baily Harper or Tre johnson

[tbdog]

one or two years to eff up our tank mode ? whats the point. Rather have a shot at Flagg Ace Baily Harper or Tre johnson

To create a winning culture. You can't just turn the switch on.

[objective]

Have to start looking better in head to head match ups against other candidates to make a case for rookie of the year. Getting doubled up in points by Knecht will be hard to overcome.

[tesseractive]

one or two years to eff up our tank mode ? whats the point. Rather have a shot at Flagg Ace Baily Harper or Tre johnson
Wait, so after years of complaints about all the losses, now Spurs fans are complaining that we're trying too hard to win?

WTF

[John B]

Have to start looking better in head to head match ups against other candidates to make a case for rookie of the year. Getting doubled up in points by Knecht will be hard to overcome.

Yup Knecht looked pretty good last night. Castle’s argument would be his two way impact as he defends the POA or best perimeter threat every game. While Knecht led the Lakers score wise at 20 pts, Castle led the Spurs at assists with 7 on top of his defense.

[SPURt]

Knecht and Castle aren’t even in the same orbit. How much ball handling is Knecht doing? How much defending is Knecht doing? Before the Spurs game he dropped 7 and 9 with no other responsibilities. Some of these takes are hilarious :lol

[exstatic]

Wait, so after years of complaints about all the losses, now Spurs fans are complaining that we're trying too hard to win?

WTF

So
Much
This

ST: our players and draft picks aren’t good enough!

Also ST: we’re not losing enough!

[scott]

So
Much
This

ST: our players and draft picks aren’t good enough!

Also ST: we’re not losing enough!

It's almost as though ST is made up of lots of people with different opinions, and is not just one singular, monolithic bloc! Crazy!

[Splits]

https://i.ibb.co/ZX5khmb/image.png

[exstatic]

It's almost as though ST is made up of lots of people with different opinions, and is not just one singular, monolithic bloc! Crazy!

It’s often the same posters saying both.

[John B]

https://airalamo.com/castle-nba-rookie-ladder-leap-shows-why-always-roy-favorite

Castle is now third on ROY ladder behind only McCain and Knecht. The team record doesn’t always affect the ROY outcome, since McCain is playing with the Sixers having a losing record 3-14, while Castle is having the most winning impact 7-5 since he started. While Knecht is just a pure shooter benefiting from LeBron and AD. Hands-down the coaches would be voting for Castle as having the most impact on both sides of the court, defending the best perimeter player every night, especially if the Spurs continue their winning trend.

[Gibbz]

Knecht and Castle aren’t even in the same orbit. How much ball handling is Knecht doing? How much defending is Knecht doing? Before the Spurs game he dropped 7 and 9 with no other responsibilities. Some of these takes are hilarious :lol

I don't think it's that people here don't think Castle would deserve it over Knecht, it's that Knecht will probably be a media/voter darling as a pure scorer white boy for a LeGM Lakers team. Hope I'm wrong though and Castle eventually makes it undeniable.

[Raven]

it is very obvious, stephon is the favourite to win it.

[exstatic]

it is very obvious, stephon is the favourite to win it.

ST favorite, but the voters really only voted for Victor when he ripped the award out of Chet’s hands head to head. The media dislike the Spurs, and will take any opportunity to express that.

[John B]

ST favorite, but the voters really only voted for Victor when he ripped the award out of Chet’s hands head to head. The media dislike the Spurs, and will take any opportunity to express that.

The media also played Chet vs Wemby for ratings

Again for all-around impact on the team winning record, ball handling, defending the best perimeter player, it’s hand down Castle

[exstatic]

The media also played Chet vs Wemby for ratings

Again for all-around impact on the team winning record, ball handling, defending the best perimeter player, it’s hand down Castle

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I like Castle a lot, and in any reputable three year redraft, he’ll go #1. ROTY is a popularity contest driven off counting stats, though.

[John B]

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I like Castle a lot, and in any reputable three year redraft, he’ll go #1. ROTY is a popularity contest driven off counting stats, though.

What stats do they use or is it just based on pure popularity? I’m looking at PER and Castle is only 14th among rookies? Shouldn’t it be higher with his overall impact including assists, defense, etc?

[Raven]

The current situation says it is between Castle(bpa), Wells (safe starter with steady stats), Mccain (best attacker but likely to see his role diminish), Konnect (pure shooter decent minutes projected) and Risacher (steady role and defensive stats could carry him while he improves the shooting)

[scott]

ST favorite, but the voters really only voted for Victor when he ripped the award out of Chet’s hands head to head. The media dislike the Spurs, and will take any opportunity to express that.

After Week 11, Chet had finished first in the Rookie ladder 5 times, Wemby 4 times. From Week 12 through the rest of the reason, Wemby finished ahead in the rookie ladder every single week.

On January 23, Wemby was a -125 favorite to win ROTY (the Spurs played the Thunder the next day, with the Thunder blowing the Spurs out), on February 20, Wemby was a -800 favorite and by March 18 Wemby was already a shoe in at -5000.

It was the 2/29/24 game where Wemby outplayed Chet, blocked his shot in clutch time, but by then Wemby was already a huge betting favorite to win ROTY.

This has been another Edition of Debunking exstatic's Make Believe Story Hour.

[100%duncan]

That last game vs Knecth is a very big hit to Stephon's chances. ROY is narrative based as much as it is stats based. Of course, long season still ahead and a lot of things can change but the biggest games are the h2h matchups vs ROY candidates obviously.

[rankingtear]

The scoring leader wins ROY. I think Brogdon is the only exception.

[baseline bum]

ST favorite, but the voters really only voted for Victor when he ripped the award out of Chet’s hands head to head. The media dislike the Spurs, and will take any opportunity to express that.

Disagree, Chet was the favorite in the calendar year of 2023 because he was playing better until the new year. No conspiracy against San Antonio. Chet fell off in the new year and Victor kicked it into a new gear to show he was obviously the better player by early March and was already trending very positively in the ROY race by February.

[baseline bum]

After Week 11, Chet had finished first in the Rookie ladder 5 times, Wemby 4 times. From Week 12 through the rest of the reason, Wemby finished ahead in the rookie ladder every single week.

On January 23, Wemby was a -125 favorite to win ROTY (the Spurs played the Thunder the next day, with the Thunder blowing the Spurs out), on February 20, Wemby was a -800 favorite and by March 18 Wemby was already a shoe in at -5000.

It was the 2/29/24 game where Wemby outplayed Chet, blocked his shot in clutch time, but by then Wemby was already a huge betting favorite to win ROTY.

This has been another Edition of Debunking exstatic's Make Believe Story Hour.

Damn I thought Victor didn't become the favorite until February, thanks for clearing that up. And damn I was at that OKC game, fucking wild. Prob the best regular season game I have been to since David's first game (first time I had ever seen the Spurs beat the Lakers lol).

[buttsR4rebounding]

That last game vs Knecth is a very big hit to Stephon's chances. ROY is narrative based as much as it is stats based. Of course, long season still ahead and a lot of things can change but the biggest games are the h2h matchups vs ROY candidates obviously.

No game in November can be a big hit or help to the ROY award given 6 months later.

[100%duncan]

No game in November can be a big hit or help to the ROY award given 6 months later.

That game solidified that Knecth is most probably November's Rookie of the month. In a close race, where no one really stands out in stats and overall WTF factor ala Wemby last year, these ROTMs matter. Unless you expect Castle to take a 2025 leap that Wemby took last season.

It doesn't help that Knecth has the LA media all over him.

[jesterbobman]

McCain moving to the bench as Maxey / McCain can't defend effectively given the lack of support from their frontcourt limits McCain as a betting option. Knecht might finish ahead, as if he stays incredibly efficient and the Lakers are a playoff team. I think between the LA media push, and scoring numbers probably ending up better / more efficient, he's ahead of Stephon Castle in a ROTY race now.

[itzsoweezee]

Not a good game from Castle. He's a great rookie and looking very mature out there for the most part, but when you see Vassell playing defense like he did today and his elite shotmaking, it's clear he deserves those starter minutes over Castle.