Devin Vassell has to go asap.

[LeBowen]

Yes, that's exactly my point. We shouldn't get overly excited about our guys putting up low-efficiency high scoring games because that's exactly what other teams want. It's no coincidence that high scoring games from Vassell and Castle are equally as likely to come with a negative +/- as they are a positive +/-

I don't agree about efficency in this specific game if we're talking Castle.
He scored 22 on 16 shots in second half, with just 1 turnover.
Team defense was the issue.

For comparison, he scored 16 on 11 shots in second half against the Lakers.

Castle needs to be an opportunistic scorer, we need to take advantage of teams trying to hide bad defenders on him.
Whether it be undersized point guards or slow footed bigs. If we don't utilize him in mismatches, he'll be a negative on the floor.

Also, I don't really care about advanced stats when it comes to rookies, Castle is obviously being tasked with uncomfortable things for him right now, but it's for the better if we talk long-term future.


Hopefully the FO notices this and sees it as a clear sign that we need a #2 (which most of us can already see).

I agree with this. Even when Castle develops, he won't be a 25ppg scorer.
Devin is already out of contention for that #2 spot, it's just about if he can be useful for the team as a role player.

Too bad we'll have to go in circles on this matter up until the next season, no way PATFO makes a big move now.
Until then, I'd rather have Castle play through growing pains even if it costs us some wins because we're not making the playoffs with this roster.

[scott]

I don't agree about efficency in this specific game if we're talking Castle.


That's your prerogative, but the data is pretty clear. Big scoring games from Castle is not our path to winning right now. This isn't even advanced analytics, just basic surface level shit. Other teams are smart enough to recognize this as well, and we're likely to see an increase in teams daring Castle to beat them. Until Castle improves his efficiency, it will be a winning strategy for those teams. That's basically true of any player.

With that said, it's good experience for Castle and he'll be fine in the long run. He may even develop into a #2 eventually, but it's not a winning game plan for us right now (which is the entire point of this discussion).

I also agree that it's good for Castle to go through the growing pains now, and it will likely cost us some wins (but that's okay too if we aren't going to even make a move for a backup C to try and make a playoff push). It's entirely possible for Castle scoring to not be a key driver to winning today (which seems quite clear to me) and it still being good for the long run.

No need for folks to get defensive about the facts... they just are what they are. It's okay to acknowledge them while still being able to fit them into longer long term objectives.

[RC_Drunkford]

You are looking to deep into +/- while overlooking the main fact: we lost the Grizzlies game because Memphis took 14 more shots than the Spurs. That's cause we lost on the boards and turned it over more often. You don't win games while giving up 14 more attempts.

[scott]

You are looking to deep into +/- while overlooking the main fact: we lost the Grizzlies game because Memphis took 14 more shots than the Spurs. That's cause we lost on the boards and turned it over more often. You don't win games while giving up 14 more attempts.

+/- incorporates that though. Who was on the court when the Grizzles got (and made) those extra shots? The players with the biggest negative +/- (unless they were all misses, in which case, they didn't cause us to lose)

[scott]

+/- is like any other stat or metric. It doesn't tell you everything, and it requires context. In some contexts its quite useful. In others, it's shortcomings make it less useful. At the end of the day, the only number that matters is the scoreboard. Counting stats, advanced metrics, etc. all just help you build the story of explaining why the scoreboard ended up the way it did.

Not every fan needs a deep understanding of analytics to enjoy the game... but if you're going to come in here talking about stats, then I'm also going to be right here talking about how they are applied/misapplied.

[RC_Drunkford]

+/- doesn‘t tell you who boxed out and who didn‘t. That was one of the biggest issues in that game. You‘re picking 2 out of 9 players. That doesn’t mean they were the reason for that. Everybody know plus minus can be highly inflated by line ups

[mystargtr34]

I use the NBA website advanced stats for my numbers.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612759/players-advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

That’s pretty gnarly numbers for Devin. By far the worst net rating for anyone playing 20 MPG or more. Keldon is not much better. After these two everyone else is close to 0 or positive.

And to be honest the eye tests backs this up because Vassell and Keldon are so bad on defense as well as being low efficiency players on offense. Devins TS% is 54 and Keldon 55.

[Raven]

How do you propose we evaluate whether he has been "pretty darn good, consistently"? What other game-by-game stat/function/metric/rubric/equation/algorithm do you feel would be a better gauge? Picking the metric to debunk that's "pretty darn good" is easy. We can just look at CraftedPlusMinus (37th percentile player), or LEBRON (45th percentile player), or DARKO DPM (40th percentile player). Sounds pretty mid, at best.

How do you want to measure "consistently?

Sounds like you have extremely low standards.

watch the game?

[RC_Drunkford]

watch the game?

no don’t do that!!! :lol

[Raven]

I think you're overthinking it.
It was a case of a clearly better team half-assing it in the first half, then realizing they need to lock in for the second half if they're to win the game.

Yeah, offense could've been better in the second half, but defense was the issue.
Memphis scored 43 in third quarter and 35 in fourth.
It's not Castle's fault Wemby went 3-12 in second half.
If we hadn't allowed 88 points in the second half, it would've been a close game.

As I wrote in game thread, for me the issue is that we played the same sets and completely ignored the mismatches.
Castle is a bad shooter, but there was no reason not to tell him to attack Edey over and over again because he can easily beat him to the rim.
Instead we had Edey sag off Castle while we were running some bs pindown screens for Devin and Barnes.

hm no, the game was clearly lost single-handedly by castle and memphis is a clearly worse team, they just have been better coached. They game planned the second half on castle specifically and he absolutely got devoured. yes he scored a career high, but that is not really saying much when you get the deandre jordan treatment.

[scott]

I use the NBA website advanced stats for my numbers.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612759/players-advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

That’s pretty gnarly numbers for Devin. By far the worst net rating for anyone playing 20 MPG or more. Keldon is not much better. After these two everyone else is close to 0 or positive.

And to be honest the eye tests backs this up because Vassell and Keldon are so bad on defense as well as being low efficiency players on offense. Devins TS% is 54 and Keldon 55.

I'm told if we watch the games, we'll see that Devin is "pretty darn good, consistently"

I was also told earlier this season that Zach Collins was having an objectively good season.

[Raven]

+/- is like any other stat or metric. It doesn't tell you everything, and it requires context. In some contexts its quite useful. In others, it's shortcomings make it less useful. At the end of the day, the only number that matters is the scoreboard. Counting stats, advanced metrics, etc. all just help you build the story of explaining why the scoreboard ended up the way it did.

Not every fan needs a deep understanding of analytics to enjoy the game... but if you're going to come in here talking about stats, then I'm also going to be right here talking about how they are applied/misapplied.

+- is a perfect stat, what is wrong is the analysis based on it. You can't use it to compare lineups, you can't use it to measure performance, you can't use it to make any kind of analysis in fact. All it measures, is game flow per person. Sorry that it happens to not be useful, but it is just the way it is.

[scott]

+- is a perfect stat, what is wrong is the analysis based on it. You can't use it to compare lineups, you can't use it to measure performance, you can't use it to make any kind of analysis in fact. All it measures, is game flow per person. Sorry that it happens to not be useful, but it is just the way it is.

I get it, you're a moron. There is no need for you to prove it any further, the mission has been accomplished.

[Raven]

I get it, you're a moron. There is no need for you to prove it any further, the mission has been accomplished.

let me describe a thought process.. the point is that +- is only correlated to player performance, it is not causal in nature. Let us have a few stats that are causal to a team winning, let's say steals, rebounds, points, assists, blocks.. now if +- was descriptive of player performance, there should exist a function to show that the players that produce the most +-, are the ones that produce the most amount of counting stats.. we know these converge in the long term showing correlation, but they don't even within a season.

[scott]

+/- doesn‘t tell you who boxed out and who didn‘t. That was one of the biggest issues in that game. You‘re picking 2 out of 9 players. That doesn’t mean they were the reason for that. Everybody know plus minus can be highly inflated by line ups

When you have the worst (or best) +/- in a single game, there can be a lot of explanations and it doesn't tell you much on its own.

When you consistently have the worst (or best) +/- in games over the whole season, and have the worst (or best) cumulative +/- for that season... there's a signal there. Or maybe Devin's just extremely unlucky that everyone else starts to suck extra hard specifically when he's in the game. Maybe it's a conspiracy?

[Raven]

When you have the worst (or best) +/- in a single game, there can be a lot of explanations and it doesn't tell you much on its own.

When you consistently have the worst (or best) +/- in games over the whole season, and have the worst (or best) cumulative +/- for that season... there's a signal there. Or maybe Devin's just extremely unlucky that everyone else starts to suck extra hard specifically when he's in the game. Maybe it's a conspiracy?

it is probably more a coaching issue than anything

[scott]

let me describe a thought process.. the point is that +- is only correlated to player performance, it is not causal in nature. Let us have a few stats that are causal to a team winning, let's say steals, rebounds, points, assists, blocks.. now if +- was descriptive of player performance, there should exist a function to show that the players that produce the most +-, are the ones that produce the most amount of counting stats.. we know these converge in the long term showing correlation, but they don't even within a season.

Hate to break it to you, but individual player counting stats do not have a causal relationship to a team winning. If they did, Russell Westbrook might have a few rings by now.

Which is the entire point here, you "watch the games" and see Devin's counting stats and come to the conclusion that Devin is "pretty darn good, consistently"

Whereas I watch the games, and see that Devin plays horrible defense, is a ball stopper, and our team does objectively worse when he is playing and come to the conclusion that he is not "pretty darn good, consistently". My conclusion is reinforced by every single catch all metric used these days. Your conclusion is supported by what? Fantasy Basketball Scores?

[scott]

it is probably more a coaching issue than anything

It's definitely fair to question whether Devin is being used properly (as most of us have already acknowledged he's not). I definitely think Devin's impact would be significantly improved if he was used better. Just my opinion, but the blame is shared amongst the FO, the Coach and the player in this case. To which degree for each of those, certainly up for debate.

[Raven]

Hate to break it to you, but individual player counting stats do not have a causal relationship to a team winning. If they did, Russell Westbrook might have a few rings by now.

Which is the entire point here, you "watch the games" and see Devin's counting stats and come to the conclusion that Devin is "pretty darn good, consistently"

Whereas I watch the games, and see that Devin plays horrible defense, is a ball stopper, and our team does objectively worse when he is playing and come to the conclusion that he is not "pretty darn good, consistently". My conclusion is reinforced by every single catch all metric used these days. Your conclusion is supported by what? Fantasy Basketball Scores?

they literally are, the easiest to prove is points. Scoring more points than the opposition, wins the game.

[Raven]

It's definitely fair to question whether Devin is being used properly (as most of us have already acknowledged he's not). I definitely think Devin's impact would be significantly improved if he was used better. Just my opinion, but the blame is shared amongst the FO, the Coach and the player in this case. To which degree for each of those, certainly up for debate.

yes and it is also not proven that because he ends up with a worse +-, it means that the team doesn't benefit from it. Specifically, Devin is often tasked to keep the offence going when the rest of the team can't hit anything, leading to tighter marking and so on..

[RC_Drunkford]

When you have the worst (or best) +/- in a single game, there can be a lot of explanations and it doesn't tell you much on its own.

When you consistently have the worst (or best) +/- in games over the whole season, and have the worst (or best) cumulative +/- for that season... there's a signal there. Or maybe Devin's just extremely unlucky that everyone else starts to suck extra hard specifically when he's in the game. Maybe it's a conspiracy?

maybe it‘s because he plays all the non-Wemby minutes and our whole team sucks when Victor ain‘t playing cause they can’t guard anybody?

[scott]

they literally are, the easiest to prove is points. Scoring more points than the opposition, wins the game.

The team scoring more points wins the game. An individual scoring more points, does not. This is not a hard concept to understand. :lol I thought you watched the games? Are you even aware of the rules?

[scott]

maybe it‘s because he plays all the non-Wemby minutes and our whole team sucks when Victor ain‘t playing cause they can’t guard anybody?

Maybe, except Wemby's minutes are a -10 NETRTG swing when he shares the court with Devin (and 2/3 of Devin's minutes come with Wemby on the court... they are REALLY bad in Devin's minutes without him)

https://i.postimg.cc/59npsNNN/onoff.png

[Raven]

The team scoring more points wins the game. An individual scoring more points, does not. This is not a hard concept to understand. :lol I thought you watched the games? Are you even aware of the rules?

it is still causal, if one player scored every point for the team and the amount is bigger than the opposition, the team wins. If it is causal in a dumbed down theoretical scenario, it is still true in any other situation.

[scott]

it is still causal, if one player scored every point for the team and the amount is bigger than the opposition, the team wins. If it is causal in a dumbed down theoretical scenario, it is still true in any other situation.

Lamelo Ball is 4th in the league in scoring average. His team has the 3rd worst win %. His scoring more points does not have a causal relationship with the Hornets winning basketball games.

If a player scored every point for the team and the amount is bigger than the opposition yes, that team would win. However, you ignore that if a player scored every point for the team - they would be extremely unlikely to outscore the opposition, and your posited causal relationship immediately falls apart. The key part of the scenario you presented is not that an individual player scored a lot of points, it's that the team's points are more than the opponents (with a perfect correlation). You can just look at a simple scatter plot of the Top Scorers and their Team Win %s and see that your hypothesis is fucking stupid.

[Raven]

Lamelo Ball is 4th in the league in scoring average. His team has the 3rd worst win %. His scoring more points does not have a causal relationship with the Hornets winning basketball games.

If a player scored every point for the team and the amount is bigger than the opposition yes, that team would win. However, you ignore that if a player scored every point for the team - they would be extremely unlikely to outscore the opposition, and your posited causal relationship immediately falls apart. The key part of the scenario you presented is not that an individual player scored a lot of points, it's that the team's points are more than the opponents (with a perfect correlation). You can just look at a simple scatter plot of the Top Scorers and their Team Win %s and see that your hypothesis is fucking stupid.

causal doesn't mean binary.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd rather have Jimmy Butler.

[John B]

Devin atrocious defense should put him to the 2nd squad and Champ to 1st. I think Champ could’ve help defend Desmond Bane tonight, not to mention a really dramatic drop on Champ’s production not being in the starting line up.

[z0sa]

Devin's play in the 3rd is the only reason we didn't lose at home by 35+ tbh

Not defending him, the way he plays defense is straight matador style running to spots rather than sticking to the guy he's supposed to be guarding. I didn't really notice it before a lot of people here started pointing out how much he's dropped off - was taking it for granted. He really has. He's gone from a guy I considered slightly above average at the start of last season to groaning any time whoever he's guarding has the ball and starts dribbling.

[RC_Drunkford]

Devin atrocious defense should put him to the 2nd squad and Champ to 1st. I think Champ could’ve help defend Desmond Bane tonight, not to mention a really dramatic drop on Champ’s production not being in the starting line up.

he was on Desmond Bane like crazy in the first half. Didn't really watch after the 3rd, but he was guarding Bane well before that.

[scott]

It's really strange. I do think Vassell's defense was a lot better in the 1st half last night, and he wasn't doing anything on the offensive end.

In the 3rd, he really was the only guy keeping us close but his defense disappeared. Almost like he's not able to do both or something.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd rather have Jimmy Butler.

I’d make that trade. The Spurs have a chance to be significant now. We shouldn’t squander it. Butler would elevate us more than Vassell can.

[LeBowen]

I’d make that trade. The Spurs have a chance to be significant now. We shouldn’t squander it. Butler would elevate us more than Vassell can.

The issue is that Butler wants an extension and he'll be 36 before the next season starts.
I'd be fine with Butler for this and the next season, but no way I'd pay him $50M at age 37.
Not to mention that he doesn't care about regular season and doesn't fit the team because we desperately need shooters.

[Obstructed_View]

The issue is that Butler wants an extension and he'll be 36 before the next season starts.
I'd be fine with Butler for this and the next season, but no way I'd pay him $50M at age 37.
Not to mention that he doesn't care about regular season and doesn't fit the team because we desperately need shooters.
Agree. If we were going to do that then we'd have been better off trading for Dame.

[Slippy]

he was on Desmond Bane like crazy in the first half. Didn't really watch after the 3rd, but he was guarding Bane well before that.

I stopped watching after the 3rd. His d was good and he pretty much kept the team in the game that 3rd quarter. Think you said it another thread. The coach not backing him for a replay after that huge block on Banes was insane.

spurs perimeter D became non-existen to finish the 3rd. 14 nil run for mempis with around 3mins left. Spurs forgot how to score. Game over.

[RC_Drunkford]

It's really strange. I do think Vassell's defense was a lot better in the 1st half last night, and he wasn't doing anything on the offensive end.

In the 3rd, he really was the only guy keeping us close but his defense disappeared. Almost like he's not able to do both or something.

Spurs players got tired when the Grizzlies made their run. Memphis is the highest paced team in the league and plays a 11-man rotation for that exact reason. They sub players in and out all the time throughout the game. Meanwhile Mitch plays 9 players and sticks to Pop's substitution patterns.

[scott]

Spurs players got tired when the Grizzlies made their run. Memphis is the highest paced team in the league and plays a 11-man rotation for that exact reason. They sub players in and out all the time throughout the game. Meanwhile Mitch plays 9 players and sticks to Pop's substitution patterns.

I agree with that, but the phenomenon I noted was before that Grizzles run (which coincided with Wemby's return to the game late in the 3rd). Before that, Devin was going off on the offensive end, but his defense kind of disappeared. I'm okay with that though, if Devin is going to be a high efficiency scorer, then we can live with him being a poor defender. It's when his poor defense gets coupled with low efficiency offense that it's a problem.

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree with that, but the phenomenon I noted was before that Grizzles run (which coincided with Wemby's return to the game late in the 3rd). Before that, Devin was going off on the offensive end, but his defense kind of disappeared. I'm okay with that though, if Devin is going to be a high efficiency scorer, then we can live with him being a poor defender. It's when his poor defense gets coupled with low efficiency offense that it's a problem.

I think that's really just conditioning. He was playing great defense on Bane in the first quarter. Probably got winded.

[scott]

Going to come to Devin's defense a little bit with some minutes breakdowns.

There is a Reddit thread out there where people have noted that Vassell, Keldon and Branham have the worst +/- on the team. Coincidently, these are also the ONLY 3 players on the team with a negative NETRTG when paired with Wemby.

Wemby's net rating without Devin on the court: +9.9
Wemby's net rating with Devin on the court: -4.65

However, someone pointed out that a lot of Devin's minutes with Wemby are ALSO with one or more of Keldon, Branham or Castle. So I dug a little deeper:

Wembanyama and Vassell have played 460 minutes together (-4.65 NETRTG)

Among those 460 minutes:

176 of them (38%) come without Keldon, Branham or Castle (+12.53 NETRTG)
139 of them (30%) come with only Castle (+0.75)
86 of them (19%) come with only Keldon (-23.15)
9 of them (2%) come with only Branham (-66.7)
48 of them (10%) come with Steph and Keldon (-31.29)
1 minute (>1%) come with Steph and Bran (-250.0)


We are missing 1 minute in there somewhere, probably just due to rounding



134 of those 176 minutes where it's Wemby + Vassell without one of the other 3 have come as part of the previous starting lineup of CP3+Vassell+Sochan+Barnes+Wemby which has posted a +15.5
Another 10 of those 176 minutes have come with Champ in for Barnes, and have posted a -13.6
Beyond that it's just a bunch of odd combinations playing spot minutes


So there is a very strong argument here that it is the Keldon + Vassell combo that is a huge problem

Wemby + Vassell without Keldon is a +5.31 (325 minutes, 71% of the Wemby + Devin minutes)
Wemby + Vassell + Keldon is a -27.89 (135 minutes)
Wemby + Keldon without Vassell is a +7.49 (316 minutes)
Vassell + Keldon without Wemby is a -18.41 (211 minutes)


We already know that Castle + Sochan are unplayable together (-11.94 over 172 minutes), but we should also come to the conclusion that Vassell and Keldon are also not playable together (-22.17 over 346 minutes)

[RC_Drunkford]

makes sense since the wing defense would suck big time with both of them playing at the same time, which is probably why their net rating is that bad.

[scott]

makes sense since the wing defense would suck big time with both of them playing at the same time, which is probably why their net rating is that bad.

Our assist rate also drops when the two of them are on the court (not surprisingly considering we're talking about Devin and Keldon here :lol). Of the four 5-man lineups with them with over 20 minutes, only 1 of them has an assist rate of over 75%, which is what all of our best lineups have.

[DAF86]

Devin has been pretty damn consistent these past games, tbh.

[scott]

Devin has been pretty damn consistent these past games, tbh.

In point total, maybe, but not in efficiency. Even TimGPT has been handing him C- and D grades. Today was different, he was an A player. If he could play like this consistently, I'd be a fan.

[KingKev]

Nice showcase for DV. Keep it up! Feb 6th is creeping up.

[z0sa]

Devin played like he should every night. No more wide open bricks and ball-stopping. Shoot open shots, play hard defense and pass the ball around. It's truly not rocket science.

That said, after missing the entire off-season, training camp, pre-season and several games early on it's not too unexpected he's only hitting his stride now. Just keep it up, dude!

[spurraider21]

i agree. he should keep shooting 70% from the field and 83% from 3

[Tyronn Lue]

In point total, maybe, but not in efficiency. Even TimGPT has been handing him C- and D grades. Today was different, he was an A player. If he could play like this consistently, I'd be a fan.
Inconsistency is a large reason players are B and lower. Playing like A means most of the time, not just the results of a game.

[CGD]

At a minimum, I think he’s stabilized his trade value.

[100%duncan]

What I would give for Dev to average 22 ppg with this solid defense. Forget the lights out shooting (as long as he's getting his 22+ on above league average splits), the defense this game was phenomenal. But alas, this is the ride with Dev.

[RC_Drunkford]

His best game of the season so far. Made the right reads, shot lights out and played consistent good defense.

[scott]

And I will point out that even if Devin shot 50/40 instead of 69/83, it still would have been a great game by him. He's at his best when he is decisive and acts quickly on the offensive end (which he did tonight) and puts the effort in on the defensive end (which he also did tonight). I agree, best game of the season from Dev.

[Knoxxx]

Other teams announcers always seem impressed with his play on offense and has had some nice stuffs on D lately. His team friendly deal - declining salary - make him either a valuable trade chip or decent roster piece. Last year he was on most posters untouchable trade piece list, actually. In a deal that got us a true #2 and offloaded someone like KJ or Collins is obviously a trigger pull. Provided the thrown in draft capital that also likely includes is not excessive.

[DAF86]

In point total, maybe, but not in efficiency. Even TimGPT has been handing him C- and D grades. Today was different, he was an A player. If he could play like this consistently, I'd be a fan.

Let's not overlook being able to produce numbers despite your efficiency being up and down. That's what separates true secondary options from role players: still being able to put up the raw production despite an uneven night in terms of efficiency. There's a huge difference between scoring 11 pts on 40% shooting and scoring 20 on 40% shooting.

This team is severely lacking in guys that can put up 20+ on a night to night basis, Vassell being able to do that consistently is a huge boost.

[scott]

Let's not overlook being able to produce numbers despite your efficiency being up and down. That's what separates true secondary options from role players: still being able to put up the raw production despite an uneven night in terms of efficiency. There's a huge difference between scoring 11 pts on 40% shooting and scoring 20 on 40% shooting.

This team is severely lacking in guys that can put up 20+ on a night to night basis, Vassell being able to do that consistently is a huge boost.

You are definitely correct in that regard, but I'll still contend that Devin was pretty bad in some of those games where he put up 20+. I think I'd rather have him be good and score 14 points than be bad and score 23... but that also requires we have some other guys who can contribute on the scoring end, and the cupboard is pretty bare right now.

[RC_Drunkford]

Well he‘s definitely rounding into form. Now I want to see if he can keep it up consistently

[The Truth #6]

Less is more with Devin. Despite the salary optics, he should play more like Champ imo. Spot up. Cut. A few dribbles. He over dribbling is ineffective and only increases his injury opportunities. Just saying. He can be great in that role.

[widowmaker]

He wants to be "the guy" so bad but hes not the guy its wemby.

[CGD]

He wants to be "the guy" so bad but hes not the guy it’s wemby.

I think this was the case last year, but now the pecking order is set. It’s human nature tbh. You can be great at your profession, but when you join a new situation (new job, new city, managing a new team) you have to prove it to your new guys at some level before they get in line. Wemby left no doubt after last year.

With Dev, it’s more a confirmation of who he is and who he isn’t. He’s a gunner (some times a great one), but with many limits in other areas like feel for the game.

[John B]

I hope Dev continues to play like the last game, aggressive. Because I still like Champ as a better complimentary player to Wemby with his length and defense on top of a 3pt threat. Champ’s game has really suffered going back to the second squad

[Davidicus]

You can see what Dev is trying to do. 1. Make more of the right passes 2. Play harder 1-1 defense 3. Take the right shot. It’s visible even from a TV screen - that’s saying a lot.

No I don’t think he’s trying to be the alpha. He’s trying to help his team win. He knows he’s being evaluated, like EVERYONE, for their fit with Wemby. These guys aren’t dumb. He also knows who he is - a sharpshooter, and nothings ever going to change that. And we don’t want him to - just the 3 aspects above.

Because of that I’m really proud of him these last few games. He’s at least trying super hard. I’ve got faith in him he’ll make the improvements necessary, but at the same time it is far from guaranteed. Good luck Dev!

[RC_Drunkford]

Less is more with Devin. Despite the salary optics, he should play more like Champ imo. Spot up. Cut. A few dribbles. He over dribbling is ineffective and only increases his injury opportunities. Just saying. He can be great in that role.

he needs someone to apply rim pressure to get those shots consistently. Until we don‘t have a quick PG he‘s gonna have to create shots for himself.

[The Truth #6]

he needs someone to apply rim pressure to get those shots consistently. Until we don‘t have a quick PG he‘s gonna have to create shots for himself.

Also true.

[onechance87]

Well he‘s definitely rounding into form. Now I want to see if he can keep it up consistently

no hes not rounding into form.Still the same trash player.

[scott]

A full Devin experience on this Paris trip.

I'm told he is "pretty darn good, consistently" though

[TDomination]

Put Dev on the bench and start Champ. I think this will help both of them.
Allow Dev to TRY and lead when Wemby is off the floor.

[baseline bum]

Put Dev on the bench and start Champ. I think this will help both of them.
Allow Dev to TRY and lead when Wemby is off the floor.

Hope Sacramento misses the playoffs and put Dev on a flight there for Fox.

[heyheymymy]

Another rug pull game from Devin

[KobesAchilles]

Looking for all that same energy to defend Devin instead all I get is silence. Imma nickname Vassell “The Cricket.”

[koriwhat]

Hope Sacramento misses the playoffs and put Dev on a flight there for Fox.

I like Devin 50/50 but if he can net fox, plus whatever assets have to go out, you make that trade 100% of the time.

[KingKev]

1/10. DAMN.

[scott]

1/10. DAMN.

He was two bricks away from the ultimate 8/24 Kobe tribute

[spurs10]

That was game for me. How we were 103-103 in the end despite of him was amazing. 2 for 10 and we win.Wonder how badly his playing of late will impact his trade value?

[scott]

That was game for me. How we were 103-103 in the end despite of him was amazing. 2 for 10 and we win.Wonder how badly his playing of late will impact his trade value?

Thankfully, I've heard from generally sharp people who would know better that NBA GMs don't put too much stock in recent form. They know who these guys are, if they play well or poorly right before a trade doesn't have much of an impact.

[KingKev]

Thankfully, I've heard from generally sharp people who would know better that NBA GMs don't put too much stock in recent form. They know who these guys are, if they play well or poorly right before a trade doesn't have much of an impact.

Yep. Your model seemed pretty realistic to me regarding his trade value. 1 FRP with some protections depending on the salary you take back. Vassell has a role in the NBA but not as a number 2-4 on a team who can’t even crack the play-in.

[scott]

Yep. Your model seemed pretty realistic to me regarding his trade value. 1 FRP with some protections depending on the salary you take back. Vassell has a role in the NBA but not as a number 2-4 on a team who can’t even crack the play-in.

Yeah, it's hard for me at this point to believe that Vassell is more valuable today than Derrick was when he was traded.

[RC_Drunkford]

the jury is out now tbh. He better get his jumper back with all the open shots he should get in the offense with Fox running point. I want to see good shooting percentages and defense. No excuses for Devin to play innefficient basketball anymore.

[spursparker9]

Vassell shooting stroke just look weird this year tbh.

I am sure he and Keldon Heave a sigh of relief after the Fox trade :lol

[Seventyniner]

I am sure he and Keldon Heave a sigh of relief after the Fox trade :lol

They aren't safe until Thursday afternoon. The Spurs might have pushed to get the Fox deal done several days before the deadline so they could make other moves.

[mo7888]

They aren't safe until Thursday afternoon. The Spurs might have pushed to get the Fox deal done several days before the deadline so they could make other moves.

I'm fine with packaging Devin and Keldon, but I don't want to include any firsts at this juncture.

[RC_Drunkford]

nah just package a couple 2nds with Branham for a back up C

[stephen jackson]

YABUSELE IS A BEAST

[Pauleta14]

They aren't safe until Thursday afternoon. The Spurs might have pushed to get the Fox deal done several days before the deadline so they could make other moves.

Without any more move, we're not that much better than before and better soft tank.

Only the addition of at least a wing that can shoot and/ or a back up big could give us a real boost

Let's hope something is coming

[Ice009]

YABUSELE IS A BEAST

I wanted the Spurs to go after him at the conclusion of the Olympics. I was told by a few posters here he wouldn't be any good in the NBA, that he had done poorly previously in Boston, but as I said, that was years ago and he has improved since then. He may not have even been given a real chance by Boston. Oh well. He's an NBA level player just like I thought he was. Showed real toughness in the Olympics and didn't back to Lebron or no-one.

[Pauleta14]

YABUSELE IS A BEAST

I wanted him badly this summer but I was told by everyone we didn't need him...

The dude costs 2M can shoot, defend and play multiple positions, I'm happy for him he'll get a nice bag next summer tho

[Ice009]

I wanted him badly this summer but I was told by everyone we didn't need him...

The dude costs 2M can shoot, defend and play multiple positions, I'm happy for him he'll get a nice bag next summer tho

Yep. You're the only other person that thought he'd do good and be a worthwhile addition. I am guessing people thought you were a homer, but I feel most of them were wrong. He proved it in the Olympics and is proving it in the NBA.

[Pauleta14]

Yep. You're the only other person that thought he'd do good and be a worthwhile addition. I am guessing people thought you were a homer, but I feel most of them were wrong. He proved it in the Olympics and is proving it in the NBA.

Yeah, I'm a homer, a hater, sometimes even a nazi on this forum :lol

More seriously tho I still don't get why not having taken a gamble considering his price, his versatility and his already known decent 3pts shooting tbh

Maybe Yabusele himself wanted a team where he could play wining basketball and showcase himself better than in SA? He also got "lucky" with all the injuries Phila had.

I'd still keep an eye on him next summer if he's reasonable and we manage to get some cap space (not much projected for now iircc)

[Mugen]

Devin's job got so much easier.

Literally hit open shots and attack closeouts when opposing defenses are focused on Fox/Wemby. Just do that and be average defensively and he's set. Really hope he takes advantage tbh

[poopbox]

They aren't safe until Thursday afternoon. The Spurs might have pushed to get the Fox deal done several days before the deadline so they could make other moves.

I wouldn't say they are safe at all. Depending on how the team does they might be back on the block this summer...and if another legit star becomes available they are definitely going to be traded as another team won't get fleeced like the kings did.

[stephen jackson]

Yeah, I'm a homer, a hater, sometimes even a nazi on this forum :lol

More seriously tho I still don't get why not having taken a gamble considering his price, his versatility and his already known decent 3pts shooting tbh

Maybe Yabusele himself wanted a team where he could play wining basketball and showcase himself better than in SA? He also got "lucky" with all the injuries Phila had.

I'd still keep an eye on him next summer if he's reasonable and we manage to get some cap space (not much projected for now iircc)

hes on the trade block for some reason

[MannyIsGod]

Devin's job got so much easier.

Literally hit open shots and attack closeouts when opposing defenses are focused on Fox/Wemby. Just do that and be average defensively and he's set. Really hope he takes advantage tbh

IMO, the rest of the season is his tryout. Dude's got to become a productive member of this team or else the Spurs should really try to move him in the offseason.

I know y'all hate on Keldon but I feel he's kinda settled into a good role off the bench, and now it's time for Devin to find his role too or else he's just gotta go.

[MannyIsGod]

Without any more move, we're not that much better than before and better soft tank.

Only the addition of at least a wing that can shoot and/ or a back up big could give us a real boost

Let's hope something is coming

Replacing Tre with someone who instantly becomes the best scorer on the team isn't "much better"? What the actual fuck?

[timtonymanu]

Yep big moment for Dev.

He’s shown he’s not a reliable #2 option so maybe 3rd option where a lot of people said he was best at will help him. Like Manny also said, if he just fades into the background again or plays inconsistent, you look to replace him offseason. Wemby has that gravity where talented players will want to come here. No more settling for the Forbes of the NBA.

[z0sa]

This is the role I have envisioned for Devin (reliable 3rd option). He's had the shit end of the stick trying to be a 2A he's clearly not, but now the onus is on him to be the #3 guy on the roster which his contract says he should be capable of.

I have a little faith left that it's been this somewhat unfair situation that's really overwhelmed him. He has a chance to prove the haters wrong this second half of the season (provided Fox plays and isn't shut down or something). Please make this work, Devin -- or GTFO

[spurraider21]

Devin's job got so much easier.

Literally hit open shots and attack closeouts when opposing defenses are focused on Fox/Wemby. Just do that and be average defensively and he's set. Really hope he takes advantage tbh
this still frustrates me. he was a plus defender in his first 2 years and that was part of his draft profile. so frustrating that the expectations have come down like this

if he continues to struggle down the stretch this year, i dont see how you can ever rely on him

[Pauleta14]

hes on the trade block for some reason

Because Phila won't be able to pay him next summer, so they'd rather get something out of him now that they won't be contenders

[Pauleta14]

Replacing Tre with someone who instantly becomes the best scorer on the team isn't "much better"? What the actual fuck?

Of course it'll make us a lot better, but the main issues of the team and reasons we lose games are the lack of back uP big when Wemby goes to the bench and the lack of solutions at the 3-4 shooting wise.

We lack size badly

[024]

Willing to give Vassell some more time to figure things out with Fox on the roster. The pressure for Vassell to be the secondary scorer has been removed and the Spurs now have 3 playmakers in Fox/Paul/Castle. He should work within this new narrower offensive role and redirect some of his energy back to defense. He would be a great third/fourth option on the team if he figures this out but old habits are hard to break.

[J_Paco]

Of course it'll make us a lot better, but the main issues of the team and reasons we lose games are the lack of back uP big when Wemby goes to the bench and the lack of solutions at the 3-4 shooting wise.

We lack size badly


Slotting Champagnie back at the starting SF and letting Castle play off the bench would instantly improve the "shooting woes," IMO.

I'm not sure why Mitch hasn't gone back to Champ when it became obvious - or has been to me - that Vassell and Castle can't start together, right now.

I also think it's almost time to start Sochan back at PF, but they need to acquire another legitimate big first (since Bassey is in the dog house, again).

[J_Paco]

Willing to give Vassell some more time to figure things out with Fox on the roster. The pressure for Vassell to be the secondary scorer has been removed and the Spurs now have 3 playmakers in Fox/Paul/Castle. He should work within this new narrower offensive role and redirect some of his energy back to defense. He would be a great third/fourth option on the team if he figures this out but old habits are hard to break.

His defensive intensity has been better in the games I've watched lately.

He does need to redirect a lot his focus, energy and effort into getting back to be being a positive defender. A lot of the offensive burden (of the last two or so seasons) that took away that focus is gone like you said, so being that guy that plays hard on defense like at FSU and his first few seasons needs to be his main focus.

[MannyIsGod]

Of course it'll make us a lot better, but the main issues of the team and reasons we lose games are the lack of back uP big when Wemby goes to the bench and the lack of solutions at the 3-4 shooting wise.

We lack size badly

Oh disagree with this so much. I feel Bassey replaces Wemby more than well enough as a back up big. Our biggest problem is that we go through incredibly long scoring droughts.

[J_Paco]

Oh disagree with this so much. I feel Bassey replaces Wemby more than well enough as a back up big. Our biggest problem is that we go through incredibly long scoring droughts.

I like Bassey too, but Mitch doesn't seem high on him or he's too stubborn to go back to him.

I really think the issue is needing better balance, scoring options and pairing Bassey with off the bench. Barnes and Castle need to come off the bench with Bassey as the back up center instead of the current underwhelming, IMO, alignment.

[TekXX]

I say move him but if he stays then hopefully he realizes his role as the third option now. The dribble, dribble, dribble chuck days need to be over.

[scott]

I'm actually excited to see how Devin adapts to a new role. I do wonder if he'll be able to break out of his Kobe-ISO-I'm-Him approach to the game he seems to have. There is no longer a need for that nor is their room for it. I'm hoping he can adapt quickly and successfully. I want to be made stupid with this avatar... he hasn't done it yet. Now is your chance, YungDev0

[CGD]

Devin is definitely on the clock now. Here’s his chance to show he’s the 3rd guy we’ve all thought he caps out at.

[Pauleta14]

Slotting Champagnie back at the starting SF and letting Castle play off the bench would instantly improve the "shooting woes," IMO.

I'm not sure why Mitch hasn't gone back to Champ when it became obvious - or has been to me - that Vassell and Castle can't start together, right now.

I also think it's almost time to start Sochan back at PF, but they need to acquire another legitimate big first (since Bassey is in the dog house, again).

Sochan would be the main victim if PATFO doesn't bring a big man

He gets embarrassed physically when he has to play center or vs big forwards

As much as I'm not a fan of the player, he hasn't been put in the best situations to shine, partly on his fault/limitations and partly on the lack of choices for Mitch.

I'd like to think, as someone said that PATFO closed this deal early enough to work on another one.

[Pauleta14]

Oh disagree with this so much. I feel Bassey replaces Wemby more than well enough as a back up big. Our biggest problem is that we go through incredibly long scoring droughts.

Bassey struggled so much at some point that Mitch had to bring back Collins and ultimately use Sochan as a center... :lol

I like Bassey, he's good sometimes but he's not reliable enough to compensate when Wemby goes to the bench for us to have a shot at a decent run

[Pauleta14]

Just realized those posts are in the wrong thread. My bad

[MannyIsGod]

Bassey struggled so much at some point that Mitch had to bring back Collins and ultimately use Sochan as a center... :lol

I like Bassey, he's good sometimes but he's not reliable enough to compensate when Wemby goes to the bench for us to have a shot at a decent run

Bassey is fine defensively. They take him out because of offense, which is why adding a really good offensive player helps with that. The problem is that with the second unit there is rarely anyone who get get to the basket and create their own shots. It's not Bassey on defense that's the issue at all. Bassey's defensive stats are excellent. He's just a victim of our shit offense.

[scott]

Going back to the CBass avatar. Too much positivity and stuff to feel good about right now for the anti-Devin campaign.

C'mon Dev, I believe in you.

[J_Paco]

Sochan would be the main victim if PATFO doesn't bring a big man

He gets embarrassed physically when he has to play center or vs big forwards

As much as I'm not a fan of the player, he hasn't been put in the best situations to shine, partly on his fault/limitations and partly on the lack of choices for Mitch.

I'd like to think, as someone said that PATFO closed this deal early enough to work on another one.

Agreed, I don't like Jeremy as the back up center at all. Give him his starting job back and slide Barnes to the back up PF. Also, add another center or bring in some guys on 10-day contracts for 'live auditions.'

Or just have some confidence in Bassey to figure things out, but it seems Mitch isn't up for that.

[Splits]

this guy sucks. wish we would have off loaded him in the Fox trade. He is so bad

[Manu-of-steel]

Vassell playing so bad

[Splits]

if he were a 15-18pt scorer on decent efficiency. fine. But this dude sucks. on fire 1 game, disappears 3 games. wtf

[onechance87]

bench his ass...Dude is almost collins bad recently.Coming to the point where hes hurting us being on the court.

[CorrectCrusader]

The new starting lineup should be Fox Castle Champagnie Barnes & Wemby

[LakerHater]

I like Bassey too, but Mitch doesn't seem high on him or he's too stubborn to go back to him.

I really think the issue is needing better balance, scoring options and pairing Bassey with off the bench. Barnes and Castle need to come off the bench with Bassey as the back up center instead of the current underwhelming, IMO, alignment.
Man, alotta teams play 2 bigs at a time ( I figure, long shots, long rebounds) but not mitch & it hurts!

[pRoshi]

Going back to the CBass avatar. Too much positivity and stuff to feel good about right now for the anti-Devin campaign.

C'mon Dev, I believe in you.

Just bring it back.

[spursistan]

Remember when this guy supposedly signed a "bargain extension" :lmao

It is not just his intangibles-less, low-IQ play, but what bothers me also is his Kobesque 'imma get mine, i got this' attitude like he is that good. baseline bum (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=131) is right when he said that dude suffers from a case of main character syndrome. Honestly, he has that Richard Jefferson 2009-11 loser aura to him: style over substance, empty inefficient calories galore

[baseline bum]

I really hope this guy can at least be a spot up shooter with the looks Fox is going to create. If he doesn't become an elite three point shooter as a third option he's gotta fucking go.

[timtonymanu]

I really hope this guy can at least be a spot up shooter with the looks Fox is going to create. If he doesn't become an elite three point shooter as a third option he's gotta fucking go.

The front office is taking notes. For his sake, I hope Assell puts it together but no way do the Spurs need his loser tendencies dragging them down.

[spursistan]

The front office is taking notes. For his sake, I hope Assell puts it together but no way do the Spurs need his loser tendencies dragging them down.
I am afraid he is one of those players who only thrives as the main guy on hard-tanking teams. Minimal ability to be plugged and played or do the dirty work ala Danny Green. Just want to 'get his points"-- efficiency, flow of offense be damned..

[Raven]

he seems to struggle when playing with castle, the plays aren't quite right

[SpursBills]

I don't typically like giving up on players too early, but this guy does not fit with this lineup anymore with Fox's arrival and his salary. If you're building around Fox and Wemby for the next 5 years while developing Castle, you've got 2 high usage guys who need to be surrounded by 2 low usage versatile defensive wings in addition to Castle. Castle's a "not quite wing" and honestly works best as the two guard who takes on more usage over time as he develops, even if his shooting is mediocre. He gives you passing, defense, foul drawing, and half court facilitation, and Vassell being the starting 2 guard neutralizes a ton of Castle's advantages and potentially takes touches away from Fox and Wemby. Sochan can sometimes be braindead, but he's still early in his development curve and can absolutely be a defense first low usage guy that provides value even when his shot isn't falling, and these are the types of players that typically are signed to reasonable contracts.

You hope that your players improve their shooting over time, especially as Fox starts generating more open shots. In the meantime, just live with a team that plays great defense and has spacing issues - yeah it's ugly basketball in the short term, but it gives you a better chance to win than whatever this is. I mean hell, look at Orlando, literally only 1 out their top 8 guys is shooting over 31% from 3, and yet they're a .500 team with half their team constantly injured and their star players missing extensive time. And there is nobody on that team that even comes close to Wemby. It's still a better proposition than devoting a ton of cap to a guy who might be hot or cold on any given day but is now basically a turnstile on defense with no awareness. Vassell right now doesn't give you defensive versatility, doesn't give you playmaking, doesn't give you size, rebounding, or rim pressure. You could argue before that he could get you a bucket in crunch time with his tough shot making, but you just literally traded for a former clutch player of the year to be that crunch time guy. So you're paying 30 million a year for an undersized wing who gives you 3s on some nights and a steady diet of midrange jumpers.

If you really want a sixth man microwave scorer, go out and get someone who can facilitate in addition to score. The league is going away from small guards, so high skilled undersized guards who can score are probably going to start going for cheaper than before. A guy like Collin Sexton is 10 million a year cheaper and a lot more reliable as a scorer while being a better facilitator. I'd take Payton Pritchard at 20 million a year over Vassell at 30 million as a 6th man. Unload Vassell in the summer if you can for a 1st rounder and go out and find yourself a Caruso, draft a couple well-rounded players with some size, and keep chugging away. It's better than handicapping yourself for the next 4 years of his contract due to poor roster construction.

[scott]

Previous avatar comes back tomorrow. What a stinker.

I've show a few different cuts of similar stats before, but I got a curiosity and just looked this one up, NETRTG of 2Man combos... WOOF. There is not a single player in our Top 8 is who's on the court time is improved by having Devin on the court at the same time. Holy shit.




Without Dev
With Dev
Dev Without
Both Off


Wemby
+9.97
-3.63
-16.37
-4.62


Cp3
+4.77
-0.38
-21.72
+2.64


Barnes
+2.17
-2.86
-15.92
+6.43


Castle
+3.60
-6.25
-11.15
+4.35


Sochan
+0.06
-0.19
-14.81
+5.41


Keldon
+0.68
-19.17
-0.54
+7.11


Champ
+5.36
-12.21
-7.21
+0.74

[scott]

I know I said and wanted to wait and see what everyone looked like with De'Aaron... but since the deadline is Thursday my patience with Devin might only extend exactly 1 game.

[onechance87]

Previous avatar comes back tomorrow. What a stinker.

I've show a few different cuts of similar stats before, but I got a curiosity and just looked this one up, NETRTG of 2Man combos... WOOF. There is not a single player in our Top 8 is who's on the court time is improved by having Devin on the court at the same time. Holy shit.




Without Dev
With Dev
Dev Without
Both Off


Wemby
+9.97
-3.63
-16.37
-4.62


Cp3
+4.77
-0.38
-21.72
+2.64


Barnes
+2.17
-2.86
-15.92
+6.43


Castle
+3.60
-6.25
-11.15
+4.35


Sochan
+0.06
-0.19
-14.81
+5.41


Keldon
+0.68
-19.17
-0.54
+7.11


Champ
+5.36
-12.21
-7.21
+0.74




dude dont belong on this team...Hes fcking everything up whens hes on the court.

[SpursGenius]

Two highest paid players on team are absolute garbage. Vassell and Keldon

[baseline bum]

Previous avatar comes back tomorrow. What a stinker.

I've show a few different cuts of similar stats before, but I got a curiosity and just looked this one up, NETRTG of 2Man combos... WOOF. There is not a single player in our Top 8 is who's on the court time is improved by having Devin on the court at the same time. Holy shit.


Kind of wish we could have traded Vassell and kept the 20131 yesterday

[spursistan]

Previous avatar comes back tomorrow. What a stinker.

I've show a few different cuts of similar stats before, but I got a curiosity and just looked this one up, NETRTG of 2Man combos... WOOF. There is not a single player in our Top 8 is who's on the court time is improved by having Devin on the court at the same time. Holy shit.




Without Dev
With Dev
Dev Without
Both Off


Wemby
+9.97
-3.63
-16.37
-4.62


Cp3
+4.77
-0.38
-21.72
+2.64


Barnes
+2.17
-2.86
-15.92
+6.43


Castle
+3.60
-6.25
-11.15
+4.35


Sochan
+0.06
-0.19
-14.81
+5.41


Keldon
+0.68
-19.17
-0.54
+7.11


Champ
+5.36
-12.21
-7.21
+0.74



Incredible really. It speaks of the one-dimensionality of his style of play. For him to register an impact he has to be super efficient shooting-wise. He is the anti-thesis of Danny Green who far more affects the game with his customary 9pts-4rb-2sttl-1blk than Devin''s average 18 points

[spursistan]

Kind of wish we could have traded Vassell and kept the 20131 yesterday
They are making the same mistake they did with KJ. Trade value dropping by the hour.

[gilmor2002]

just go to his Insta and said 'Dev, u sucks..'

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkYByZX9dXQ

:lol

from 20 sec onward

Swaggy P said he has never heard the names of the Spurs young core. Vassell? He thought Sam Cassell is still playing and high 5 Agent Zero :lol Hilarious shit

[RC_Drunkford]

I really wonder what happened to his jumper? One would think that after last season where he was top 10 in toughest shot attempts and averaged 54.4/37.2/80.1 shooting splits, his percentages should go up. But the opposite happened, all his shooting numbers are down. I gave him the benefit of the doubt early because he had no training camp and came off surgery, but this is getting worrisome. He's definitely widely overpaid at this stage.

[venitian navigator]

Imho Vassell needs a summer and a training camp tò be back in shape and regain confidence. His game Is not just from natural talent but instead has been builded with hard work, so a non working Summer and no training camp spoiled his development and the foot injury spoiled his shooting...probably (hopefully)next season hell be back tò his previous self

[spursparker9]

I really wonder what happened to his jumper? One would think that after last season where he was top 10 in toughest shot attempts and averaged 54.4/37.2/80.1 shooting splits, his percentages should go up. But the opposite happened, all his shooting numbers are down. I gave him the benefit of the doubt early because he had no training camp and came off surgery, but this is getting worrisome. He's definitely widely overpaid at this stage.

Most of his attempts are tough shots since he entered the league. Even Charles Barkley pointed this out when he said he is not high on Vassell.

Just that previous seasons he was still able to knock down those incredible shots at a decent rate. This year once the shots are not falling, he is really hurting the team.

[cutewizard]

Can we do a straight Vassell for Cam Johnson trade??

[tbdog]

Fox will make Vassell better. Currently, he has to work so hard to get open. His defense has picked up lately. Hopefully that trend will continue as his offensive load lowers.

[onechance87]

Imho Vassell needs a summer and a training camp tò be back in shape and regain confidence. His game Is not just from natural talent but instead has been builded with hard work, so a non working Summer and no training camp spoiled his development and the foot injury spoiled his shooting...probably (hopefully)next season hell be back tò his previous self

stop with the excuses....His play style is terrible.Its not team basketball.Guess we didnt care the last few years cause
we suck and were tanking.But now we trying to run a system with wemby,And vassell looks like a dumbass trying to do to much
with dribbling or long fadeways trying to be a big shot maker.Just doesnt fit with us.Needs to be benched

[onechance87]

Fox will make Vassell better. Currently, he has to work so hard to get open. His defense has picked up lately. Hopefully that trend will continue as his offensive load lowers.

Stop it...Guy gets open shots,Hes just been bricking em.He makes the game difficult for himself and his
team mates everytime he touches the ball.

[tbdog]

Stop it...Guy gets open shots,Hes just been bricking em.He makes the game difficult for himself and his
team mates everytime he touches the ball.

He is having a bad year. He also didnt have a pre season. This happens throughout the NBA.

[Ice009]

he seems to struggle when playing with castle, the plays aren't quite right

Stop trashing Stephon Castle. You'll find anything to talk shit about him.

How about instead of singling out Steph, how about saying he struggles when playing with anyone. It's not fucking specific to Stephon.

Back to Devin. Is it possible that foot injury has screwed him up? I remember him being better than this, but also, people say he's only good as the lead player on a tanking team and I disagree with that. Back when the Spurs made the play-in, I remember Devin stepped up against NO and Dejounte didn't show up at all that game (Dejounte was coming off of illness, though, missing the last games of the season, so I won't completely trash him). I thought Devin showed mental toughness that game and looked like a keeper. I just don't know if it's the foot surgery this season, or what has happened to him. I thought he was mentally tougher and better than this.

[couchman]

The eye test and the advanced stats don’t lie, Devin is having a horrible season.
The injury and time off clearly set him back.
Even if he returns to last year’s form, does he fit on a team where Wemby and Fox take 40+ shots a game?
He has to be efficient to fit and we’re not seeing it right now.

[RC_Drunkford]

Stop trashing Stephon Castle. You'll find anything to talk shit about him.

How about instead of singling out Steph, how about saying he struggles when playing with anyone. It's not fucking specific to Stephon.

Back to Devin. Is it possible that foot injury has screwed him up? I remember him being better than this, but also, people say he's only good as the lead player on a tanking team and I disagree with that. Back when the Spurs made the play-in, I remember Devin stepped up against NO and Dejounte didn't show up at all that game (Dejounte was coming off of illness, though, missing the last games of the season, so I won't completely trash him). I thought Devin showed mental toughness that game and looked like a keeper. I just don't know if it's the foot surgery this season, or what has happened to him. I thought he was mentally tougher and better than this.

I think he went 7/7 from 3 that game. Can't find the highlights though.

[TD 21]

I'm not trying to make excuses for him and I know it wasn't the same injury as James Anderson, but I'm beginning to wonder if it was career altering all the same.

Guy was always inconsistent and slightly underwhelming, but not to this extreme.

[ffadicted]

Previous avatar comes back tomorrow. What a stinker.

I've show a few different cuts of similar stats before, but I got a curiosity and just looked this one up, NETRTG of 2Man combos... WOOF. There is not a single player in our Top 8 is who's on the court time is improved by having Devin on the court at the same time. Holy shit.




Without Dev
With Dev
Dev Without
Both Off


Wemby
+9.97
-3.63
-16.37
-4.62


Cp3
+4.77
-0.38
-21.72
+2.64


Barnes
+2.17
-2.86
-15.92
+6.43


Castle
+3.60
-6.25
-11.15
+4.35


Sochan
+0.06
-0.19
-14.81
+5.41


Keldon
+0.68
-19.17
-0.54
+7.11


Champ
+5.36
-12.21
-7.21
+0.74




This is so bad my brain refuses to believe it's real. I don't even dislike Vassell that much, he's been shit this season but I always thought him as a weapon off the bench in a contender would work. Rough chart to look at.

[spurraider21]

Swaggy P said he has never heard the names of the Spurs young core. Vassell? He thought Sam Cassell is still playing and high 5 Agent Zero :lol Hilarious shit
i know swaggy p was never the posterchild for bbiq, but this is why i never take it seriously when former players criticize pundits about how "you didnt play, so you cant evaluate" talk

[scott]

I think he went 7/7 from 3 that game. Can't find the highlights though.

He was also one of the few guys who showed up with balls in the last Cup group game against PHX. I will give Dev credit, he has shown up in the only two meaningful games we've played in the last 5 years.

[Bill_Brasky]

i know swaggy p was never the posterchild for bbiq, but this is why i never take it seriously when former players criticize pundits about how "you didnt play, so you cant evaluate" talk

Lol yep. That logically makes zero sense considering these guys take coaching from people who didn't play in the league, and if they did, definitely were not star players.

[Ice009]

I think he went 7/7 from 3 that game. Can't find the highlights though.

He went 7/13 from 3 point range and top scored for the Spurs with 23 points on the road in New Orleans. Dejounte went 5-19 and Keldon 6-20. I give Dejounte a bit of a pass as he missed the games in April with some sort of illness, but Devin was one of the only players I was happy with after that game.

[Raven]

Stop trashing Stephon Castle. You'll find anything to talk shit about him.

How about instead of singling out Steph, how about saying he struggles when playing with anyone. It's not fucking specific to Stephon.

Back to Devin. Is it possible that foot injury has screwed him up? I remember him being better than this, but also, people say he's only good as the lead player on a tanking team and I disagree with that. Back when the Spurs made the play-in, I remember Devin stepped up against NO and Dejounte didn't show up at all that game (Dejounte was coming off of illness, though, missing the last games of the season, so I won't completely trash him). I thought Devin showed mental toughness that game and looked like a keeper. I just don't know if it's the foot surgery this season, or what has happened to him. I thought he was mentally tougher and better than this.

first: why?
second: i didn't blame stephon.

[Sigz]

WTF happened to Vassell. Starting to get that Kobe chuckin' bricks vibes.

[SpursBills]

This might be me overreacting to this year specifically, but would anybody do something like this trade in the offseason?

In principle, Milwaukee gets Vassell for Bobby Portis, Connaughton, whatever other salaries to make the deal work, and a 2031 unprotected first and 2032 unprotected swap?

Basically, Milwaukee strikes me as a semi-desperate team that doesn't' want to lose Giannis. Vassell slots in nicely next to Dame and his shooting helps to space the floor for Giannis.

Portis is a temporary stretch 5 that gives spacing. Everybody else is just salary filler that you eat so that you can open up a ton of cap room in 2026 to make a play on Durant or JJJ or whomever. 2031 unprotected 1st and 2032 swap will be when Giannis is 36 and 37 with no picks to improve the team while Wemby will be in his age 27 and should be in his prime. It seems like you're selling low on Vassell, but if you draft well with two potential lottery picks this year, I don't think you lose too much. This also gets rid of the added temptation of starting Vassell with Fox and leaving Castle on the bench.

[Em-City]

This might be me overreacting to this year specifically, but would anybody do something like this trade in the offseason?

In principle, Milwaukee gets Vassell for Bobby Portis, Connaughton, whatever other salaries to make the deal work, and a 2031 unprotected first and 2032 unprotected swap?

Basically, Milwaukee strikes me as a semi-desperate team that doesn't' want to lose Giannis. Vassell slots in nicely next to Dame and his shooting helps to space the floor for Giannis.

Portis is a temporary stretch 5 that gives spacing. Everybody else is just salary filler that you eat so that you can open up a ton of cap room in 2026 to make a play on Durant or JJJ or whomever. 2031 unprotected 1st and 2032 swap will be when Giannis is 36 and 37 with no picks to improve the team while Wemby will be in his age 27 and should be in his prime. It seems like you're selling low on Vassell, but if you draft well with two potential lottery picks this year, I don't think you lose too much. This also gets rid of the added temptation of starting Vassell with Fox and leaving Castle on the bench.
I was also discussing vassell for bobby +salary filler with a friend the other day.

The trade seems fair but no way bucks add draft collateral

[SpursBills]

I was also discussing vassell for bobby +salary filler with a friend the other day.

The trade seems fair but no way bucks add draft collateral

Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I think a decent salesman can make the following case to a desperate GM:

1. Vassell is still just 24, not in his prime, and 1 year removed from an efficient 20/4/4 season. He's had a down year this year because he's still been working his way back from injury but prior to this year his year to year trajectory was pointing upwards. With Giannis and Dame he can be the perfect 3rd banana
2. He's not giving up any size at the 2 guard position next to Dame so you're not going to have to go small
3. He's locked into a reasonable 3rd banana salary for the rest of Giannis' prime
4. Portis is just a one year rental after which he'll become a lot more expensive; Connaughton provides basically nothing for what he's getting paid
5. Who cares about a draft pick 5 years down the road when the goal should be to maximize your franchise's once in a generation player for the rest of his prime?

I think that's probably enough to squeeze at least an unprotected swap from them, and possibly an unprotected first altogether which would be great

[BatManu20]

1889042494182084894

[NASpurs]

1889042494182084894

:lol

[Sigz]

Oh look, another terrible game from Vassell.

[Extra Stout]

Vassell will always occasionally have good offensive production, but the consistently bad defense and poor basketball IQ make him useless on a team trying to win. But it appears the Spurs are still in tank mode at least for this year, so he’ll continue to start.

[BatManu20]

:lol

Yea this aged like milk. Dude has been horrendous today.

[scott]

Reminder, on February 12, 2025 Devin had "turned the corner".

Still to be determined which corner this was. Might have been the wrong direction down a one-way street.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

He has the worst shooting release in the NBA as well, and his feet are always never set. He’s always fading away or drifting to the left on spot ups even. It’s like who’s the shooting coaches on this team? Who’s developing these morons?

[Mugen]

He's actually pretty decent when he attacks the rim. I don't know why he's so allergic to doing it and instead settles for those bs midrange fadeaways.

[Joseph Kony]

this dude has basically turned into a taller and more expensive Bryn Forbes. atrocious on defense, tunnel vision on offense, cant be counted on to do anything when it matters, routinely chokes, etc. dude peaked as a rookie on defense and has gotten considerably worse every year since. now he's supposed to be our best scorer but averages 16ppg on mediocre efficiency while being a complete turnstile on D. get this bum off the team. it is a slap in the face to our franchise and spurs fans that this dude is the highest paid spurs play ever

[TD 21]

it is a slap in the face to our franchise and spurs fans that this dude is the highest paid spurs play ever

It's really just a function of timing on multiple fronts: The cap being what it was and projected to grow to year over year when he was extension eligible and the fact that they had a dearth of anything resembling high end talent at the time, save pre rookie Wembanyama.

[Joseph Kony]

It's really just a function of timing on multiple fronts: The cap being what it was and projected to grow to year over year when he was extension eligible and the fact that they had a dearth of anything resembling high end talent at the time, save pre rookie Wembanyama.
agree, but still a tough pill to swallow regardless

[itzsoweezee]

He has the worst shooting release in the NBA as well, and his feet are always never set. He’s always fading away or drifting to the left on spot ups even. It’s like who’s the shooting coaches on this team? Who’s developing these morons?

Yes! He has one of the ugliest shooting forms in the league.

He doesn’t seem so bad finishing around the rim, so I don’t understand why he thinks of himself as a shooter. Just do what you’re capable of. You’re no gunner

[timtonymanu]

this dude has basically turned into a taller and more expensive Bryn Forbes. atrocious on defense, tunnel vision on offense, cant be counted on to do anything when it matters, routinely chokes, etc. dude peaked as a rookie on defense and has gotten considerably worse every year since. now he's supposed to be our best scorer but averages 16ppg on mediocre efficiency while being a complete turnstile on D. get this bum off the team. it is a slap in the face to our franchise and spurs fans that this dude is the highest paid spurs play ever

Idk Forbes still did okay with White, Derozan and Lamarcus next to him even if it was just lasted one year.. Assell has a superior starting 5 next to him and still can’t produce at even a good level. The spurs really need to separate themselves from him and Keldon. They are both tanking players and need to get the hell off this team.

I don’t even think putting Sochan in the same crew as them is fair cause Sochan can still have a role on this team if they don’t overpay the hell out of him to keep him (you know PATFO will though).

[baseline bum]

this dude has basically turned into a taller and more expensive Bryn Forbes. atrocious on defense, tunnel vision on offense, cant be counted on to do anything when it matters, routinely chokes, etc. dude peaked as a rookie on defense and has gotten considerably worse every year since. now he's supposed to be our best scorer but averages 16ppg on mediocre efficiency while being a complete turnstile on D. get this bum off the team. it is a slap in the face to our franchise and spurs fans that this dude is the highest paid spurs play ever

Forbes could shoot 40% from the three. At least he did something good to make you think he could be a starter if you squinted real close from the right angle. Vassell is Forbes minus the shooting.

[z0sa]

Vassell has just dropped off markedly from last season, though it obviously wasn't a legendary effort.

Averaged 19.5ppg on 47% shooting, including 37% from a lot tougher 3's than this season, to only 15ppg on 35% 3P, and 43% overall. It's just baffling how he could have gone downhill in a hurry so fast. He should be nailing 40% of his 3s with the kinds of looks he's gotten this season and will be getting with Fox in the mix.

He's a negative asset now, which saddens me. He shouldn't be. He proved last season he has the talent to be a consistent scorer but it's just all gone by the wayside without any definable reason this season. Unbelievable, tbh. I think a move to the bench would be good for his trade value - fuck being a piece for the future at this point. I'd rather Champagnie starting.

[Leetonidas]

:lol we're now arguing that Forbes was a more useful player than current Vassell. Jesus christ this dude fell off hard this season

[spurraider21]

:lol we're now arguing that Forbes was a more useful player than current Vassell. Jesus christ this dude fell off hard this season
as awful as forbes was, he was a legitimate 40% 3 point shooter and was consistent

in his years with the spurs, he shot:

32.1% (rookie, low minutes, low volume... 53 attempts on the year)
39.0%
42.6%
38.8%
41.7%

vassell's career high is 38.7% (in a season cut short, he only played 38 games), and his career average is 36.6%, which isn't even a far cry from Keldon's career average of 35.2%

obviously there's more to the game than just 3 point shooting, and unlike forbes, vassell has the ability to put the ball on the floor and get to the rim... but with his defense having fallen off a cliff as well, man. to be fair, as bad as vassell's defense has gotten, i dont think teams are actively hunting him the way they did forbes, so i dont think its felt as much. he still has solid length and athleticism so he's not an obvious target

[Joseph Kony]

as awful as forbes was, he was a legitimate 40% 3 point shooter and was consistent

in his years with the spurs, he shot:

32.1% (rookie, low minutes, low volume... 53 attempts on the year)
39.0%
42.6%
38.8%
41.7%

vassell's career high is 38.7% (in a season cut short, he only played 38 games), and his career average is 36.6%, which isn't even a far cry from Keldon's career average of 35.2%

obviously there's more to the game than just 3 point shooting, and unlike forbes, vassell has the ability to put the ball on the floor and get to the rim... but with his defense having fallen off a cliff as well, man. to be fair, as bad as vassell's defense has gotten, i dont think teams are actively hunting him the way they did forbes, so i dont think its felt as much. he still has solid length and athleticism so he's not an obvious target
https://i.ibb.co/npbxJvy/forbes.png

[spurraider21]

anyway gimme Neal over Forbes, came up big in the postseason. monster 3 against memphis to keep us alive in that series, and even came up huge in game 3 of the 2013 finals where both he and danny popped off

if neal had the same green light forbes did (and was gifted a starting job with big minutes), he'd have outproduced him handily

[PhantomDashCam]

In 68 games last year, Vassell scored 12 points or less in 12 total games. (17.6 % of games played).

In 37 games so far this season, Vassell has scored 12 points or less in 14 games already! (32.4 % of games played!)

[NASpurs]

https://i.ibb.co/npbxJvy/forbes.png

Is this dude still beating up women?

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell's production compared to last season has fallen off a cliff. Now it could just be a down season cause he came off surgery or that's just who he is when he doesn't get the ball as much. That's on the Spurs to evaluate. As of right now he's massively overpaid.

[scott]

In 68 games last year, Vassell scored 12 points or less in 12 total games. (17.6 % of games played).

In 37 games so far this season, Vassell has scored 12 points or less in 14 games already! (32.4 % of games played!)

Damn that's rough.

[scott]

Vassell's production compared to last season has fallen off a cliff. Now it could just be a down season cause he came off surgery or that's just who he is when he doesn't get the ball as much. That's on the Spurs to evaluate. As of right now he's massively overpaid.

I think part of the calculus has to be that Devin's never going to get the ball again as much as he did the last two years. His USG% this season isn't that far off where it has been (24.4% two years ago, 23.5% last year, 22.8% this year) but I expect it to start dropping fairly rapidly with Fox here (indeed, it's only 18.7% the last 5 games with Fox). So the question has to be, can Devin be a successful offball 4th option, and will be good enough in that role to justify his salary? Right now he's 21% of the cap. You probably want your 4th option to be more like Barnes' 12.5% of the cap.

One way I could see Vassell's USG% staying up is if he transitions to a 6th Man role and becomes the Go-To guy off the bench. But even if he becomes 6MOY, he's probably still overpaid. Most high end 6th men make more like 15% of the cap right now, not 21%.

It's getting really difficult to envision how Vassell fits here going forward.

[100%duncan]

anyway gimme Neal over Forbes, came up big in the postseason. monster 3 against memphis to keep us alive in that series, and even came up huge in game 3 of the 2013 finals where both he and danny popped off

if neal had the same green light forbes did (and was gifted a starting job with big minutes), he'd have outproduced him handily

Vassell doesnt even touch Neal if we're being honest. :lol

[baseline bum]

vassell has the ability to put the ball on the floor and get to the rim

Does he really? I thought someone posted stats showing he was way more efficient on two dribbles or less. It was really frustrating seeing him in the Manu role of just give the ball to him and get the hell out of the way at the end of quarters. Seems like Vassell would never convert those isos into anything useful.

[baseline bum]

I think part of the calculus has to be that Devin's never going to get the ball again as much as he did the last two years. His USG% this season isn't that far off where it has been (24.4% two years ago, 23.5% last year, 22.8% this year) but I expect it to start dropping fairly rapidly with Fox here (indeed, it's only 18.7% the last 5 games with Fox). So the question has to be, can Devin be a successful offball 4th option, and will be good enough in that role to justify his salary? Right now he's 21% of the cap. You probably want your 4th option to be more like Barnes' 12.5% of the cap.

One way I could see Vassell's USG% staying up is if he transitions to a 6th Man role and becomes the Go-To guy off the bench. But even if he becomes 6MOY, he's probably still overpaid. Most high end 6th men make more like 15% of the cap right now, not 21%.

It's getting really difficult to envision how Vassell fits here going forward.

He'd only fit as a competent defender, say a middle of the road defensive talent. Hard to believe he can be so poor defensively with his size and athleticism, but this ain't the Spurs of the early 2000s to mid 2010s when it comes to player development sadly.

[spurraider21]

Does he really? I thought someone posted stats showing he was way more efficient on two dribbles or less. It was really frustrating seeing him in the Manu role of just give the ball to him and get the hell out of the way at the end of quarters. Seems like Vassell would never convert those isos into anything useful.
we've seen him drive and dunk in traffic. id bet a lot of those "more than 2 dribble" shots are him dribbling and dancing around and then pulling up from 17

[widowmaker]

Dudes got kobeitist similar symptoms to HIV and AIDS.

[Strategic]

He has the worst shooting release in the NBA as well, and his feet are always never set. He’s always fading away or drifting to the left on spot ups even. It’s like who’s the shooting coaches on this team? Who’s developing these morons? Yeah, maybe Devin needs some sessions with Castles shooting coach. Wouldn’t hurt Jeremy either.

[sfernald]

I just hate his IQ. He’s not a team player and he has a black hole IQ as so many on this forum have said time and time again. Just get rid of him and KJ for one decent player next summer pls.

[mo7888]

I just hate his IQ. He’s not a team player and he has a black hole IQ as so many on this forum have said time and time again. Just get rid of him and KJ for one decent player next summer pls.

My guess is they both either end up in Phoenix or Brooklyn.

[The Truth #6]

Like KJ, he developed in a losing, tanking culture where he thought he'd be the guy. KJ seems to fully realize he won't ever lead the team in scoring again. Devin is slowly, perhaps too slowly, realizing the same for himself.

So yeah, can he pivot roles to something he hasn't done yet?

Personally, I think he has too much pride, having worked too hard to get to where he is to want to embrace a lower role. Obviously he's going to have to unless he just wants to go to a team worse than us where he can get his shots up.

Charlotte anyone?

[Chomag]

Empty calories... I don't know how some of you think that Vessell can still be that guy. it's time to part ways with him this off-season and move on to replacing his roll because he will not be worth the amount on his next contract to keep him around hoping that 1 day he will turn the corner.

He can go to a bottom feeding team and enjoy the rest of his career there , but I do see him more as being a journey man in his future.

[widowmaker]

We are getting close to March and his usual end of season injury is around the corner.

[scott]

We are getting close to March and his usual end of season injury is around the corner.

That will probably be quite coincidentally around the time the Spurs go on a big run and make the Play-In :lol

[baseline bum]

Vassell's production compared to last season has fallen off a cliff. Now it could just be a down season cause he came off surgery or that's just who he is when he doesn't get the ball as much. That's on the Spurs to evaluate. As of right now he's massively overpaid.

His falloff defensively is my biggest problem with him. He was pretty good defensively the first 30 games or so last year but then became Keldon level bad and has pretty much remained there just a little over Keldon level since. Don't think you can be starting material being that horrible defensively unless you're a truly high end scorer and creator.

[Das Texan]

That will probably be quite coincidentally around the time the Spurs go on a big run and make the Play-In :lol

we can only hope this happens.

[Sugus]

It's gonna be interesting to see how he plays out the rest of the season, post All Star break.

If it wasn't clear already that he's not gonna be "top dog" on the team going forward, Castle's emergence couldn't be making it clearer.

If Vassell doesn't quickly and effectively adapt his game, he'll be the first to go in the off-season, before Keldon even IMO. Too much skillset overlap and not enough talent to overcome that or be worth his pay as a bench player.

[The Truth #6]

Basically for him to embrace his proper role, his stats are going to go down and it just makes his trade value go down further.

[LeBowen]

Realistically speaking, what are even our hopes for Devin?
I don't think that fans who are hoping for him to become an efficent 20ppg scorer with great defense are being realistic, it's never going to happen.

Current Devin is one of the easiest archetypes to find, even if we assume he's playing well and not in an awful slump.
Off the ball guard with decent size, subpar defense, solid shot creating, a bit above average 3pt shooting and no ability to draw fouls? How much is that player worth?
Yes, the cap is going up, but it's also about roster construction.

With Castle's performances as of late and Fox trade, guard positions should be set in stone for the next 5 years.
Moving Castle away from his natural role just to accomodate an average player like Devin isn't worth it, we need two wings with size, just look at how modern playoff rosters are build, we can't get away with three guard lineups.

The only way for Spurs to be successful with Devin on the roster would be a 3 man guard rotation with him, Fox and Castle. Reliable backup PG for regular season workload management, but wouldn't really be needed in the playoffs.
The issue is that Devin isn't worth the money he's getting if he won't be a positive contributor when it matters while playing a lot of minutes. Not worth it even with the rising cap.

It's just that we've gotten used to losing and lack of talent that we're grasping for straws when it comes to players who can actually dribble the ball and somewhat score shots that aren't wide open.

[SpursBills]

Realistically speaking, what are even our hopes for Devin?
I don't think that fans who are hoping for him to become an efficent 20ppg scorer with great defense are being realistic, it's never going to happen.

Current Devin is one of the easiest archetypes to find, even if we assume he's playing well and not in an awful slump.
Off the ball guard with decent size, subpar defense, solid shot creating, a bit above average 3pt shooting and no ability to draw fouls? How much is that player worth?
Yes, the cap is going up, but it's also about roster construction.

With Castle's performances as of late and Fox trade, guard positions should be set in stone for the next 5 years.
Moving Castle away from his natural role just to accomodate an average player like Devin isn't worth it, we need two wings with size, just look at how modern playoff rosters are build, we can't get away with three guard lineups.

The only way for Spurs to be successful with Devin on the roster would be a 3 man guard rotation with him, Fox and Castle. Reliable backup PG for regular season workload management, but wouldn't really be needed in the playoffs.
The issue is that Devin isn't worth the money he's getting if he won't be a positive contributor when it matters while playing a lot of minutes. Not worth it even with the rising cap.

It's just that we've gotten used to losing and lack of talent that we're grasping for straws when it comes to players who can actually dribble the ball and somewhat score shots that aren't wide open.

To build on this, Wemby is and most likely always will be to some degree a finesse big. That's not a knock on him, he's got outlier skill and length, but doing strength and physicality-based shit like setting strong picks, bodying people on the low block, and boxing people out just isn't what his body type is suited to, nor should it be something that the Spurs force if they want to get the most out of him for the longest time. He's not Valanciunas or Zach Edey. It doesn't mean that he can't do it, just that roster construction needs to compensate for that kind of thing. The last thing you want in a playoff setting is to surround Wemby with guys who are undersized or give up physicality at multiple positions, and putting Vassell in the starting lineup leaves you weak from a physicality standpoint at both the 2 and the 3 if your priority is to develop Castle. Castle is basically the perfect modern day 2 next to a score-first guard especially if his shooting develops - secondary playmaking, +size, +physicality, +defense. Getting rid of Vassell is just addition by subtraction at this point - with his salary you can easily get two DFS and Royce O'Neal type players for not much more than 30 million combined which would fit the starting lineup way better in the near term while you wait for your future draft picks to mature.

I'm hoping he shoots much better between now and the end of the season, but more for trade value than anything. As of right now I'm looking at unloading him for Tobias Harris and picks from Detroit which gives me a bigger body and vet player who doubles as a big expiring for a big trade in 2025 or free agency in 2026.

[Bruno]

If Vassell is back at a good level, I've no problem with Spurs keeping him. A starting backcourt of Fox and Castle with Vassell backing them sounds good to me.

There is definitely a spot on this team for a player with his profile. It's up to him to hit his open shots and play with more intensity defensively.

[Extra Stout]

Devin as a no-defense backup 2-guard at $27 million a year? No thanks.

[rankingtear]

I won't trade him for 3 and D stiffs. Outside of helio offenses they are extremely overrated.

[scott]

To build on this, Wemby is and most likely always will be to some degree a finesse big. That's not a knock on him, he's got outlier skill and length, but doing strength and physicality-based shit like setting strong picks, bodying people on the low block, and boxing people out just isn't what his body type is suited to, nor should it be something that the Spurs force if they want to get the most out of him for the longest time. He's not Valanciunas or Zach Edey. It doesn't mean that he can't do it, just that roster construction needs to compensate for that kind of thing. The last thing you want in a playoff setting is to surround Wemby with guys who are undersized or give up physicality at multiple positions, and putting Vassell in the starting lineup leaves you weak from a physicality standpoint at both the 2 and the 3 if your priority is to develop Castle. Castle is basically the perfect modern day 2 next to a score-first guard especially if his shooting develops - secondary playmaking, +size, +physicality, +defense. Getting rid of Vassell is just addition by subtraction at this point - with his salary you can easily get two DFS and Royce O'Neal type players for not much more than 30 million combined which would fit the starting lineup way better in the near term while you wait for your future draft picks to mature.

I'm hoping he shoots much better between now and the end of the season, but more for trade value than anything. As of right now I'm looking at unloading him for Tobias Harris and picks from Detroit which gives me a bigger body and vet player who doubles as a big expiring for a big trade in 2025 or free agency in 2026.

Yeah, Tobias Harris is a target I've got my eyes on as well. He's a rare 3&D wing who actually checks each of the boxes that the team needs in a construction around Wemby/Fox/Castle. Can hit the 3? Check. Plays defense? Check. Can rebound? Check.

I wish he had a little more size, but other than that Harris is a pretty nice fit.

You mentioned the addition by subtraction in moving Devin, but I think we really need to point out how important it will also be for the Spurs to find a way to get off Devin's long term money.

[SpursBills]

Yeah, Tobias Harris is a target I've got my eyes on as well. He's a rare 3&D wing who actually checks each of the boxes that the team needs in a construction around Wemby/Fox/Castle. Can hit the 3? Check. Plays defense? Check. Can rebound? Check.

I wish he had a little more size, but other than that Harris is a pretty nice fit.

You mentioned the addition by subtraction in moving Devin, but I think we really need to point out how important it will also be for the Spurs to find a way to get off Devin's long term money.

There are definitely better players than Harris for this team, but it's hard to find a team whose has a need for / would benefit a lot from a guy with Devin's skillset to try and execute a Wright-style win-win trade. You basically need a team who already has lead creation / initiator in place and a lot of athletes with size on the team but who lacks shooting. Detroit is really the best fit, since both Ausar and Holland are bigger and more wing-ish than Castle but struggle a lot with shooting, while Cade's size means that Vassell's lack of physicality won't be a problem and they can run a lineup of 4 guys 6'6"-6'8" around a center. Getting off Devin's long term money is definitely a goal but these win-win trades can maximize value in a trade so you're not just salary dumping him.

Other candidates that make less sense - Orlando (still not sure if Suggs-Paolo-Franz offer enough playmaking), Milwaukee (Portis' probably opts out so salaries are hard to match)

[Bruno]

Regarding Vassell's salary, you had to keep in mind the raising cap and the mainly flat structure of his contract.

Spurs will need to be cautious about contract in 2027/28 and beyond when Wemby will get his extension.

Vassell's contract will be then:
2027/28: $24.7M
2028/29: $27M

The luxury tax threshold in these years will be:
2027/28: $227.4M
2028/29: $250.1M

And Spurs' ownership might even allow Spurs to go a little above that threshold.

If Vassell can go back to his 2023/24 level, he is worth spending between 10% and 11% of your payroll on him.

[TD 21]

Devin as a no-defense backup 2-guard at $27 million a year? No thanks.

Next season/post Paul, they could still get him near 30 mpg in either a mostly 3 guard rotation or a combination of that and him continuing to play some as a nominal SF.

He's not really suited to be a 6th man given his limited creation, but it's either that or trade him because him as a full time SF doesn't cut it.



There are definitely better players than Harris for this team, but it's hard to find a team whose has a need for / would benefit a lot from a guy with Devin's skillset to try and execute a Wright-style win-win trade. You basically need a team who already has lead creation / initiator in place and a lot of athletes with size on the team but who lacks shooting. Detroit is really the best fit, since both Ausar and Holland are bigger and more wing-ish than Castle but struggle a lot with shooting, while Cade's size means that Vassell's lack of physicality won't be a problem and they can run a lineup of 4 guys 6'6"-6'8" around a center. Getting off Devin's long term money is definitely a goal but these win-win trades can maximize value in a trade so you're not just salary dumping him.

Other candidates that make less sense - Orlando (still not sure if Suggs-Paolo-Franz offer enough playmaking), Milwaukee (Portis' probably opts out so salaries are hard to match)

The Pistons, already at a pick deficit and otherwise bereft another starting four option, need Harris the same way the Spurs do Barnes.

[John B]

I’m okay with Vassell as the 4th option. But he would best fit at 6th man and Champ better 3pt shooting and defense at starting 2.

[scott]

Regarding Vassell's salary, you had to keep in mind the raising cap and the mainly flat structure of his contract.

Spurs will need to be cautious about contract in 2027/28 and beyond when Wemby will get his extension.

Vassell's contract will be then:
2027/28: $24.7M
2028/29: $27M

The luxury tax threshold in these years will be:
2027/28: $227.4M
2028/29: $250.1M

And Spurs' ownership might even allow Spurs to go a little above that threshold.

If Vassell can go back to his 2023/24 level, he is worth spending between 10% and 11% of your payroll on him.

In a vacuum, Devin's contract is fine - the problem is that it is almost impossible for him to live up to it at this point due to the emergence of Castle, and specifically how Steph slots into SG.

Devin's best possible on-the-court outcome at this point is to be a 4th option SF, who's playing out of position and will get hunted on defense, or a very high end (talking like 6MOY contender) bench player. Devin's contract is honestly oversized for both of those scenarios.

The only exception would be to say that we're fortunate to have Wemby and Castle on rookie deals so you can afford to splurge a little bit on Devin, and by the time Wemby's extension kicks in (2027-28) Devin's deal will be about 13% of the cap, which aligns with a high end 6th man contract (for reference, Malik Monk is at 12-13% of the cap).

So basically, Devin's really only path to playing up to his deal is to make that transition to super 6th man. I have doubts, but I'd be willing to see what it looks like.

I'm not even a big Cam Johnson fan, but if we could flip Devin for Cam plus filler, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Cam's deal is rightsized for what his role would be (4th option), and ends two years sooner.

[onechance87]

The only thing going for vassell is hes still young.But boy did this guy fall off so fast.Wtf happend to him.

[timtonymanu]

Dev’s role keeps reducing. If he can’t even feast as a 4th option or even if he were moved to the bench, trade his ass. Less 2-9, 1-7 from 3 kind of stats. It’s make or break for Devin. He’s lucky this front office is all up on their charity case mindsets cause any other winning team would have offloaded him already.

[Bruno]

In a vacuum, Devin's contract is fine - the problem is that it is almost impossible for him to live up to it at this point due to the emergence of Castle, and specifically how Steph slots into SG.

Devin's best possible on-the-court outcome at this point is to be a 4th option SF, who's playing out of position and will get hunted on defense, or a very high end (talking like 6MOY contender) bench player. Devin's contract is honestly oversized for both of those scenarios.


On the paper, a 3 guard rotation of Fox, Castle and Vassell sounds good. When Fox is on the bench, Castle can slide to the lead guard spot. Vassell shooting and size is a good complement to Fox and Castle who like to attack the basket. If Fox and Castle play 34mpg, there will have 28 mpg left for Vassell at guards' spots. When the matchup is right and/or Vassell is on a good shooting night, he can also play some SF minutes.

At that stage, I just don't think there is a need to trade Vassell. He fills a need and his contract will be fine in a couple of seasons.

While I don't think Spurs should push to trade Vassell, he isn't either a must keep player. Spurs should trade him in the following circumstance:
- He doesn't get back to a level close to his last year level.
- He isn't fine with being a bench player.
- Spurs received a good offer for him.
- Castle playing the backup PG minutes doesn't work and Spurs add a true backup PG.
- Spurs draft Tre Johnson.

[widowmaker]

I don't think he fits this team anymore he doesn't look for the good to great.

[scott]

On the paper, a 3 guard rotation of Fox, Castle and Vassell sounds good. When Fox is on the bench, Castle can slide to the lead guard spot. Vassell shooting and size is a good complement to Fox and Castle who like to attack the basket. If Fox and Castle play 34mpg, there will have 28 mpg left for Vassell at guards' spots. When the matchup is right and/or Vassell is on a good shooting night, he can also play some SF minutes.

At that stage, I just don't think there is a need to trade Vassell. He fills a need and his contract will be fine in a couple of seasons.

While I don't think Spurs should push to trade Vassell, he isn't either a must keep player. Spurs should trade him in the following circumstance:
- He doesn't get back to a level close to his last year level.
- He isn't fine with being a bench player.
- Spurs received a good offer for him.
- Castle playing the backup PG minutes doesn't work and Spurs add a true backup PG.
- Spurs draft Tre Johnson.

Sorry I saw this late.

I think the 3-man rotation you outline is the best case scenario for Devin, and I'd prefer we begin the audition of Devin as primary bench scorer now to see how he adapts to the role (though he'd slot into a 4-man guard rotation and play some SF minutes this season since CP3 is still around).

I think you've pretty well outlined the steps that would lead to us deciding to move on from Dev, but really the first two (which is why I want to figure it out NOW, and not next season). I think your point about Castle being able to handle backup PG minutes is a good one - but that can be solved for if he's not up to the task and is going to just be a SG - then we just simply sign a backup PG to pick up the 14 or so minutes where Fox needs to sit. I think it would still leave plenty of room for Devin to play 25-30 mpg as the 6th man.

To the point about Castle playing backup PG... his NETRTG is actually worst when he's the sole PG. He's -13.48 without one of CP3, Fox or Tre Jones on the floor with him, but he's +2.86 sharing the court with Paul, +13.56 sharing the court with Tre, and +0.54 sharing the court with Fox (notably, he's -16 when CP3/Fox/Castle are all on the court... let's cut that out). So I think there are valid questions whether Castle can absorb all of those extra lead PG minutes.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean it’s pretty obvious now that we actually have 3 core pieces what does and doesn’t fit on this team. Last year it was just Wemby and we just had to hope someone came along. Now we have Fox and Castle. Our backcourt is set for the next 4 years. We still need a lot of things for this team. A back up Center (cmon Wolf), a stretch 4 (we kinda have that in Barnes) that can rebound. Those guys don’t exactly fall out of trees so good luck there. And we need a 3&D SF.

What we don’t need is a 27 million dollar bench player who plays zero defense paired alongside a 20 million dollar bench player who doesn’t play defense. One of them has to go

[BatManu20]

Mitch only playing Castle 13 minutes has distracted everyone from the fact that vASSell continues shit the bed. This is pathetic from a $27M/year player in his 5th season. Inexcusable.

We thought maybe adding Fox would give Devin easier looks and make him play better and he's only been worse. Dude just sucks.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GkXGjtxWwAAGKKt?format=jpg&name=large

[Mugen]

Devin "The Corner' Vassell tbh

[spursparker9]

Trade him for cash and 2 second round picks in the off seasons

[z0sa]

Dude’s dropped off so pathetically, right as he got paid. Son of a bitch

[LeBowen]

Dude’s dropped off so pathetically, right as he got paid. Son of a bitch

Dropped off? He's the same player he was two years ago.

https://i.imgur.com/G108bNf.png

That's not a massive drop, just a bit lower usage.

[scott]

I can't believe it's come to this... but at this rate, Keldon might have more trade value than Devin, all things considered (such as contract)

Edit: forgot to include, Devin Vassell has turned a corner and averages 3.6 3PM/100pos

[scott]

Ew

https://i.imgur.com/XC5pSli.png

[SpursBills]

At the time of the Fox trade, I secretly wished that we had included Vassell instead of Collins/Tre just because we could probably save on some draft picks and their contracts ended much earlier. I don't like how correct that assertion is turning out to be.

[Ice009]

What website do you go to, to see who played specific times during a quarter. For example, can you see who was on the court the first 7 minutes the third quarter? Is that something that can be checked?

[RC_Drunkford]

Ew

https://i.imgur.com/XC5pSli.png

Spurs player development staff doing work :lol

[scott]

At the time of the Fox trade, I secretly wished that we had included Vassell instead of Collins/Tre just because we could probably save on some draft picks and their contracts ended much earlier. I don't like how correct that assertion is turning out to be.

You and me both, brother. Moving off Vassell and Keldon are becoming more and more important both from the perspective of 1) they aren't very good and 2) they open up a lot of cap flexibility if we can get expirings for them

[LakerHater]

Vassell- 23mins 6pts
Castle - 13mins. 12pts

Mitch Johnson is an IDIOT!!!

[Jordan Jackson]

When Kevin Durant is available via trade - I’d do it in a heartbeat using Keldon and Devin’s contracts. That is a fast way to get off that money, clean their salary cap and get something useful.

Durant would be an expiring at that point. I’m ok with that. I just think the Spurs need to get off those contracts fast. Those guys play losing basketball - no defense.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think the Suns would want that poo poo platter without picks. So it’s wishful thinking.

[quentin_compson]

Ew

https://i.imgur.com/XC5pSli.png

Eh, he might still reach Lonnie's level ...

[Silverheart80]

How times change.

I was on this board last June saying Vassell doesn't make his teammates better and that he's not a core player. There were a lot of Marthas clutching pearls -- "How *dare* you, sir! The disrespect!!"

Fast forward, and we've got a thread 19 pages deep, saying the same. I rooted for the Spurs to draft Devin because I thought he was raw, but might develop into a two-way starter who could make winning plays. When he was coming out of Florida State, I thought he was smarter than what he's turned out to be. Nope. Hasn't worked out. He's had 4-1/2 seasons. More than enough sample size. He can't create an advantage off-the-dribble in iso. And because of that, he doesn't generate stress to create advantages for his teammates. Can't stay in front of his man on defense. Not a good processor under situational pressure. His shot selection is notoriously poor, but he's talented enough to inconsistently make some -- which is what makes some say "Maybe there's a chance!"

Truth is his game can't be depended upon. If the Spurs are gonna use these last 28 games to boost his scoring numbers so he's a better summer trade asset -- please do. I stand by what I said last June -- the road toward consistently winning again begins after Devin is playing elsewhere. Team IQ will go up. Addition by subtraction.

I wish it had worked out better. :cry

[Strategic]

Dude’s dropped off so pathetically, right as he got paid. Son of a bitch Isn’t that kinda like what Collins and KJ did? Seems to be a pattern around the taco stand.

[tbdog]

I still maintain that his surgery has put things out of whack. Like how Garland had night a day difference between his last three seasons.

[LeBowen]

I still maintain that his surgery has put things out of whack. Like how Garland had night a day difference between his last three seasons.

Garland had a broken jaw, probably couldn't even eat properly for months.
He got back to his usual level this season because of Atkinson, aside from his injury, last year they played in a system that didn't allow him to be at his best next to Mitchell.

Devin was never that good, it's just that Spurs were horrible and he was the least horrible player.

[The Truth #6]

A casualty of the horrible/tanking years. Wright got way too manic, uncharacteristically, giving big contracts to Zach and Devin.

[scott]

How times change.

I was on this board last June saying Vassell doesn't make his teammates better and that he's not a core player. There were a lot of Marthas clutching pearls -- "How *dare* you, sir! The disrespect!!"

Fast forward, and we've got a thread 19 pages deep, saying the same. I rooted for the Spurs to draft Devin because I thought he was raw, but might develop into a two-way starter who could make winning plays. When he was coming out of Florida State, I thought he was smarter than what he's turned out to be. Nope. Hasn't worked out. He's had 4-1/2 seasons. More than enough sample size. He can't create an advantage off-the-dribble in iso. And because of that, he doesn't generate stress to create advantages for his teammates. Can't stay in front of his man on defense. Not a good processor under situational pressure. His shot selection is notoriously poor, but he's talented enough to inconsistently make some -- which is what makes some say "Maybe there's a chance!"

Truth is his game can't be depended upon. If the Spurs are gonna use these last 28 games to boost his scoring numbers so he's a better summer trade asset -- please do. I stand by what I said last June -- the road toward consistently winning again begins after Devin is playing elsewhere. Team IQ will go up. Addition by subtraction.

I wish it had worked out better. :cry

A handful of us were beating this drum, all alone in the woods. Now it’s a full on drum circle after it’s become too obvious to ignore any longer. There are still a few stragglers, who tell us that Devin has turned a corner… but it’s about damn time people wake up to the Devin mirage. Hopefully Brian Wright can do the same.

[rascal]

A handful of us were beating this drum, all alone in the woods. Now it’s a full on drum circle after it’s become too obvious to ignore any longer. There are still a few stragglers, who tell us that Devin has turned a corner… but it’s about damn time people wake up to the Devin mirage. Hopefully Brian Wright can do the same.

You're against a top four pick but a top four pick of Harper, Edgecombe or Tre Johnson will give the Spurs the ability to move off of Vassell and trade him in a package for another roster need.

[LeBowen]

Evin Asssell because there's no Defense or Victory when he plays.

[scott]

You're against a top four pick but a top four pick of Harper, Edgecombe or Tre Johnson will give the Spurs the ability to move off of Vassell and trade him in a package for another roster need.

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

[rascal]

Your reading comprehension is terrible.

Don't be a jackass

[scott]

Don't be a jackass

You're twisting words. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming it was just your reading comprehension. Maybe you're just a liar?

[rascal]

You're twisting words. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming it was just your reading comprehension. Maybe you're just a liar?

Just a day ago you were saying you'd rather not get a top four pick.

[scott]

Just a day ago you were saying you'd rather not get a top four pick.

Here are my exact posts on the topic:


Yeah, this is why I'm not too worried about jumping into the Top 4.

Just keep surrounding Fox/Castle/Wemby with solid, Barnes-like players. I'm comfortable with our star power at this point. The only thing that would change that would be some unexpected horrible news that Wemby is retiring... in which case I will erect the Voodoo Shrine in my home and begin ritual sacrifices to land Flagg.


Honestly I'm completely content with the 10th and 12th pick in this draft (or wherever they land in the natural scheme of things)... and I'm completely content with trading one of those picks away like we did with #8 last year if the opportunity presents itself.

While landing a Top 4 pick sounds nice, and this is going to sound strange, I think it almost leads to too much of an embarrassment of riches. If we land Flagg, then there will need to be a pretty monumental shift in the way we think about our team. Castle goes from being part of our future Big 3 to more of a Derrick White-like supporting character. This sounds pretty awesome, but that fits Derrick White because that is Derrick's 90th percentile outcome, whereas it might only be Steph's 60 percentile outcome... so now you suboptimized Steph. The same is probably true of Dylan Harper, whereas with Edgecombe and Bailey they may be better suited as supporting cast for the Wemby/Fox/Castle big 3.

These are, as they say, winners problems... good ones to have... but part of me would kind of just rather see us build around our big 3 of Wemby/Fox/Castle with smart, solid role players - the Harrison Barnes of the league. This will also be more sustainable for our team.

I know this sounds counterintuitive and maybe even kind of stupid, because you should always want to add the best players you can, but I'm really excited about our future big 3 of Wemby/Fox/Castle and I want to see us build around them. I don't think a Big 4 is achievable or sustainable. BOS might be the closest with Tatum/Brown/Tingus/Jrue/Derrick... but they also have a roster that this ownership group will never pay for.

I'll be happy if we land a Top 4... but honestly if we landed 2-4 (I'm taking Flagg no matter what), I might be an advocate for trading that pick away. Would NOP take #2 and Vassell for Trey Murphy? Would POR possibly do #3 and Keldon for Camara and Clingan? I'd be targeting rebuilding teams with young up and comers on cheap deals... might be overthinking things though.

Neither of those say I am "against a top 4 pick" as you stated. So, which is it... do you have terrible reading comprehension, or are you a liar?

[rascal]

Here are my exact posts on the topic:





Neither of those say I am "against a top 4 pick" as you stated. So, which is it... do you have terrible reading comprehension, or are you a liar?[/COLOR]

You're fine with not getting a top four pick. You clearly wrote as to reasons why a top four pick wouldn't be the best and part of you would rather build around Wemby/Castle and Fox.

I gave you another reason a top four pick can add another positive for you, to get rid of Vassell who you are not high on.

[John B]

Bring Champ to starting lineup, better catch-shooter and defender. Let Vassell create his shots at 6th man. Mitch needs cojones to make the call.

[rascal]

Bring Champ to starting lineup, better catch-shooter and defender. Let Vassell create his shots at 6th man. Mitch needs cojones to make the call.

Champ isn't very good either.

[scott]

You're fine with not getting a top four pick. You clearly wrote as to reasons why a top four pick wouldn't be the best and part of you would rather build around Wemby/Castle and Fox.

I'm fine with not getting a top four pick. That is not the same as "being against a top 4 pick"


I gave you another reason a top four pick can add another positive for you, to get rid of Vassell who you are not high on.

We don't need to get a Top 4 pick to get rid of Vassell.

[John B]

Champ isn't very good either.

When you’re a catch-and-shoot but start doing “more” because you’re around the 2nd squad, then your weaknesses get magnified. During the championship years, players were “specialist” doing only what they do best. You start going outside that comfort zone, players make mistakes. Champ is a specialist who’s best at catch-and-shoot and play defense, ala Danny Green. Let him be that. Vassell on the other hand can create. It’s actually lessens his touches playing besides Fox. Then he starts overplaying the role.

[LeBowen]

Vassell on the other hand can create.

Can he?
Last season Devin apologists were saying he has too much playmaking duties that push him out of his comfort zone and needs a better point guard next to him. I actually also believed that and thought he'd do better if he's able to just focus on scoring.
Then we got CP3, Devin was injured, but when he cam back he wasn't any better. Fine, adjusment period.
Then we got Fox who creates so much space for everyone and Devin continues being worse.
At what point will the excuses for Devin stop?

Castle was drafted as a non-shooter. Someone who will have to make a lot of adjustments to become a good scorer in the NBA.
Half a season later Castle and Devin have the same per 36 scoring.

Castle's per 36 is 18.2 on 42/28/73. Castle also averages 5 assists.
Devin's per 36 is 18.5 on 43/35/76. Devin is at 3.3 assists.

That's with early season stats included, Castle's shooting splits would be way better if it's just stats over the last few months.
One is a 5th year player who got a $140M contract. A player who's primary duty is supposed to be to score the ball.
The other one is someone who was supposed to be a negative on offense early on.

You factor in the defense and Castle is already at least a tier above Devin. But since this franchise respects family values and contracts, whoever makes the most money gets to play more.

[scott]

Can he?


He creates a lot of headaches... for fans of the Spurs, not the opposing team though

[BatManu20]

Mitch only playing Castle 13 minutes has distracted everyone from the fact that vASSell continues shit the bed. This is pathetic from a $27M/year player in his 5th season. Inexcusable.

We thought maybe adding Fox would give Devin easier looks and make him play better and he's only been worse. Dude just sucks.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GkXGjtxWwAAGKKt?format=jpg&name=large


vASSell 1/9 for 5 points today...against an awful Pels teams where he has the green light to fire away.

He's now scored single-digits in 4 of his last 5 games.

Gotta be mental at this point. Dude absolutely fucking sucks right now.

[benefactor]

Where's Boomecstatic to tell us more about turning the c:lolrner

[onechance87]

Sit him out for the rest of the season.Dude is out of it.

[scott]

Honestly might be best for his trade value to invent some not-significant injury to shut him down for the rest of the season for

”Yes, Devin was struggling but you understand he had low turn signal fluid that needed surgery. He’s all fine now, you should definitely want him and his $27MM/yr”

[KobesAchilles]

MVP of team tank tbh. Unless it’s Flagg we get, the dude is literally getting us to draft his replacement and I love it. Vassell needs to be playing more minutes.