Devin Vassell has to go asap.

[tbdog]

Garland had a broken jaw, probably couldn't even eat properly for months.
He got back to his usual level this season because of Atkinson, aside from his injury, last year they played in a system that didn't allow him to be at his best next to Mitchell.

Devin was never that good, it's just that Spurs were horrible and he was the least horrible player.

I just used Garland as a popular scenario. There are a whole bunch of players that go through ups and downs in their career.

[gilmor2002]

The problem which I can see from Vassel:

1. When he has the ball, he will dribble dribble and try to make a hero-ball difficult shot; and chances is that he never gets it done; instead, he shd have look at the matchup and find the person who has the best chance of scoring
2. He needs a prime scorer (Wemby or Fox) who is the prime scorer for him to be effective and can sack off the defense;
3. He doesnt pass the ball to his more recent tea-mates: Castle, Barnes, Julian; he only pass to designated players - Fox, Wemby or Paul
4. He always try to hero-ball and try to make a statement which he failed misearably..

Bottom line, I fucking hate him on this team.

[timtonymanu]

He’s legit the RJ24 to the big 3 of Tim, Tony, and Manu. Dude was a shit 4th option and got outplayed by so many people that were further down than him in the rotation. The team feasted immediately when they traded him. Hope the same happens to Devin in the offseason.

Basically, stay away from players that wear #24.

[scott]

Devin averaging 8ppg on 27.5% FG and 16.0% from 3 in 5 games since exstatic announced he had turned the corner :lol

[Mugen]

Devin averaging 8ppg on 27.5% FG and 16.0% from 3 in 5 games since exstatic announced he had turned the corner :lol

:lol

[Blizzardwizard]

Surely we must be approaching Vassell's one good (offensive) game per month.


Maybe if we send all the scoring highlights from those monthly games to incompetent front offices like Chicago or Portland they'll bite on an offseason trade?

[Jordan Jackson]

Devin averaging 8ppg on 27.5% FG and 16.0% from 3 in 5 games since exstatic announced he had turned the corner :lol

Unfortunately, there was a ditch around that corner.

Vassell has entered Malaki Branham territory and that’s no place to be…ever.

[Knoxxx]

At least KJ is showing up lately making his trade value > 0

[mystargtr34]

Are we sure Vassell isn’t cooked due to the foot injuries he’s had?

Man he looks awful out there. I don’t remember him being this slow and lethargic moving laterally.

[tbdog]

Are we sure Vassell isn’t cooked due to the foot injuries he’s had?

Man he looks awful out there. I don’t remember him being this slow and lethargic moving laterally.

Yeah, he looks off. His balance is a little out on those jumpers. Yet we have seen more posters by him than previous years.

I think part of it has been coaching. He isn't getting the ball on the move, eg Rip Hamilton or Klay style curls. It seems he doesn't get plays called for him. Perhaps he is a type of player that needs to.

[spursparker9]

The real tank commander :lol

[slick'81]

Can we still trade vassell for halliburton:lol

[spursparker9]

Can we still trade vassell for halliburton:lol

I say trade for Primo

[John B]

Sadly I remember creating a tread for Castle as MIP candidate prior to his injury, and everybody thought he deserved it better than Ja Morant who was expected to be great in the first place. That seemed ages ago.

[Maddog]

Yeah, he looks off. His balance is a little out on those jumpers. Yet we have seen more posters by him than previous years.

I think part of it has been coaching. He isn't getting the ball on the move, eg Rip Hamilton or Klay style curls. It seems he doesn't get plays called for him. Perhaps he is a type of player that needs to.

I've always thought he had a slight lean on his jumper. It definitely seems more exaggerated.
He's really struggling out there.
If you look at his splits he had pretty decent January- but horrendous February- of the 10 games in February 8 or with Fox-

[scott]

While OJ may have never found the real killers... the crack beat writers over at the Express-News have found Devin's real issue: he just cares too much.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/is-caring-much-hurting-spurs-devin-vassell-20184578.php

Mitch things Devin is too much of a team player:


"And that's sometimes the problem when you got good guys and people that really want to play for their team. At some point, you just got to not give a you know what."

But at least Devin knows that the Power of Friendship is on his side:


"I have people like KJ (reserve forward Keldon Johnson) coming up to me and being like, 'Dev, just play your game and be you,' " Vassell said. "So, every time I get a shot, everybody wants me to finish it. If I turn it down, they tell me I'm coming out, so I got to keep shooting. That's all I can say truthfully."

[LeBowen]

How much do those fucks get paid by Wright to write that shit?

I wish Spurs had a single realistic journalist who wasn't afraid to ask some actual questions.

[poopbox]

While OJ may have never found the real killers... the crack beat writers over at the Express-News have found Devin's real issue: he just cares too much.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/is-caring-much-hurting-spurs-devin-vassell-20184578.php

Mitch things Devin is too much of a team player:



But at least Devin knows that the Power of Friendship is on his side:

Vomitted reading this trash. Trade both these losers for Caitlin Clark

[Spurs Homer]

If i had the energy i would dig up all those posts regarding trades with gems like these;

”only wemby and vassell are untouchable”

” markannen -yes- but NOT if it includes vassell!”

”we have our big 3- wemby, vassell and blah blah…”

[spurs10]

He needs to wisely invest his money, as I don't see him playing long in the NBA like Paul or someone. He's set for life if he doesn't blow it or get ripped off, with the latter being more likely.

[rjv]

If i had the energy i would dig up all those posts regarding trades with gems like these;

”only wemby and vassell are untouchable”

” markannen -yes- but NOT if it includes vassell!”

”we have our big 3- wemby, vassell and blah blah…”

that would take some energy because i can't recall seeing all too many posts like that.

[J_Paco]

Yeah, he looks off. His balance is a little out on those jumpers. Yet we have seen more posters by him than previous years.

I think part of it has been coaching. He isn't getting the ball on the move, eg Rip Hamilton or Klay style curls. It seems he doesn't get plays called for him. Perhaps he is a type of player that needs to.

Yeah, I've been pondering the same thing lately. Maybe he'd be better in an off-ball, movement shooter role, but then again he's looked terrible in catch-and-shot situations lately.

It sucks that it seems like his development may have plateaued. Or his foot injury is affecting his shooting/scoring ala James Anderson in the past.

[BackHome]

Yeah, as soon as a I found out he had foot surgery I was worried, but some people said it's just a little foot surgery no problems he will be a good as new.......

[100%duncan]

Another problem with Vassell is he's on the Spurs coaching staff/development. If he were in Grizzlies, Magic type of teams (aside from the obvious top systems like Boston and OKC), I'm sure he'd be posting decent numbers.


This is not to defend this dude. I am all out on Devin. But we should all be out on the coaching staff and player developmental altogether.

[Obstructed_View]

If i had the energy i would dig up all those posts regarding trades with gems like these;

”only wemby and vassell are untouchable”

” markannen -yes- but NOT if it includes vassell!”

”we have our big 3- wemby, vassell and blah blah…”

So people aren't allowed to watch the games and change their opinions? It's fuckasses like you on sports boards who make people afraid to give truthful opinions. Why does it matter so much to you?

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, as soon as a I found out he had foot surgery I was worried, but some people said it's just a little foot surgery no problems he will be a good as new.......
Is he not good as new? He wasn't ever that great. He goes hard at the rim for dunks more than I remember.

[Spurs Homer]

Lol “fuckasses”


dumb ass

[ambchang]

I have to admit Vassell just got notably worse this year. Maybe it’s the surgery and he needs time to come back, but I’ve not really on the Vassell train before. I thought he could be a semi reliable scorer, maybe a fourth option or a scorer off the bench for a winning team and justify his contract once the cap goes up, but he has been so bad defensively whereby that alone will render him unplayable, then add onto his precipitous drop off in offensive production and he is really not earning his contract.

I’m still holding out hope he can right the ship but I’m having doubts. Even before the surgery I had questions about his drop on defense since his rookie year. Another red light is someone posted that he was a league leader in making difficult out shots, while some players are better than others at making difficult shots, being a league leader suddenly is likely an anomaly and is likely to drop off. Besides, with wemby on the team I couldn’t find a reason to take too many difficult shots to begin with, if the shots are difficult it means either you are not running a set to get easy shots created by wemby or you didn’t pass the ball out to someone else who should have an easy shot because of wemby. It is just a hunch I have and unfortunately it seems to be true.

I wanted to trade him earlier in the season when his value was relatively high but the front office didn’t see it that way. Wanted a good 3-D player or a good PG but I guess that will have to wait.

At this point I’d say keep him and try to develop him into a catch and shoot player, get him to play d again. I still thinks he has the talent, just that his development wasn’t done properly and as such he just gets worse every year.

[Ice009]

I will admit I wasn't keen on trading him earlier in the season. Looks like that was a mistake, though, as I assume his trade value was much, much higher before the trade deadline than it is now.

[z0sa]

I said, let Devin work as the #3. He had a good season last year, not great by any means but worth his contract.

This year, he's fallen off a cliff. He's a garbage feeder who does well with no pressure, like Keldon. His mental fortitude is weak. He's fast running out of chances to be more than trade bait - but who would want him with his current production? Sad stuff, man.

His biggest problem is his real time processing. He always has to think for a second or two before doing anything on offense unless it's the shot clock is running down. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy scrambling his way with the lane wide open only for him to hold the ball and look around for a bit. It's the opposite of killer.

The coaching hasn't helped any, to be fair. But at a certain point, you either got it or you don't.

[Jordan Jackson]

While OJ may have never found the real killers... the crack beat writers over at the Express-News have found Devin's real issue: he just cares too much.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/is-caring-much-hurting-spurs-devin-vassell-20184578.php

Mitch things Devin is too much of a team player:



But at least Devin knows that the Power of Friendship is on his side:

Those guys are basketball losers and need to be moved.

At some point ownership needs to decide if they’re operating a professional basketball team or The White Lotus.

[scott]

I said, let Devin work as the #3. He had a good season last year, not great by any means but worth his contract.

This year, he's fallen off a cliff. He's a garbage feeder who does well with no pressure, like Keldon. His mental fortitude is weak. He's fast running out of chances to be more than trade bait - but who would want him with his current production? Sad stuff, man.

His biggest problem is his real time processing. He always has to think for a second or two before doing anything on offense unless it's the shot clock is running down. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy scrambling his way with the lane wide open only for him to hold the ball and look around for a bit. It's the opposite of killer.

The coaching hasn't helped any, to be fair. But at a certain point, you either got it or you don't.

My favorite Devin Vassell move is when he does drive in the lane and gets all the way to the hoop for what looks like an easy basket, but then does a 180 in mid air and tossed a pass to the 3pt line that is off target and forces the receiving player to jump to grab it and then have to completely reset the offense. This usually happens with like 4 seconds left on the shot clock, leading to a bad shot. It's like Devin decided before he even drove "I'm going to drive into the lane and collapse the D so my guy has a wide open 3!" and then doesn't know how to pivot off that decision when the lane stays wide open. It's like he's stuck in an NBA2K animation and can't cancel the move :lol

[z0sa]

My favorite Devin Vassell move is when he does drive in the lane and gets all the way to the hoop for what looks like an easy basket, but then does a 180 in mid air and tossed a pass to the 3pt line that is off target and forces the receiving player to jump to grab it and then have to completely reset the offense. This usually happens with like 4 seconds left on the shot clock, leading to a bad shot. It's like Devin decided before he even drove "I'm going to drive into the lane and collapse the D so my guy has a wide open 3!" and then doesn't know how to pivot off that decision when the lane stays wide open. It's like he's stuck in an NBA2K animation and can't cancel the move :lol

You're reading my mind. He makes up his mind at the logo on drives. That's why he actually has some really good finishes this season (at the rim) when the shot clock is ticking down - he doesn't think, he just reacts, and he's actually ok around the rim when he actually makes a strong move, IE it's not his athleticism holding him back. If only he just did that shit all the time, but he's clearly stuck in his own head trying to gameplan ahead of time instead of react quickly to what the defense gives him.

Unfortunately, IQ issues like these are nearly always impossible to fix. Good coaching would help him understand his role better, but it won't make his brain suddenly work faster in the flow of the game.

[RC_Drunkford]

How much do those fucks get paid by Wright to write that shit?

I wish Spurs had a single realistic journalist who wasn't afraid to ask some actual questions.

Kim Jong Popovich would get them fired

[LeBowen]

9.7/3/1.6 on 31/20/93 over the past 7 games. :lmao

[scott]

9.7/3/1.6 on 31/20/93 over the past 7 games. :lmao

He's turned the corner... and found where they sell the crack.

[spursistan]

-21 in a 2-point win. You can't make this up.. :lmao

[dn0774]

He's turned the corner... and found where they sell the crack.

Yo where'd the turn the corner meme come from, it gets me everytime lol

[scott]

Yo where'd the turn the corner meme come from, it gets me everytime lol

In the 4 games after we traded for Fox, Vassell put up the following statlines:

20 pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 4 stl on 9/18 shooting (2/8 from 3), 17.3 game score versus ATL
15 pts, 4 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl on 5/13 shooting (4/7 from 3), 9.4 game score versus CHA
25 pts, 2 reb. 3 ast. 1 stl on 11/14 shooting (3/4 from 3), 22.9 game score versus ORL
7 pts, 3 reb, 1 ast on 2/9 shooting (2/8 from 3), 1.7 game score (:lol) versus WAS

Because this amounted to 16.8 ppg on 50% FG shooting (41% from 3PT), exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) had declared that it appeared that Devin Vassell had "Turned the Corner"


Keldon hasn’t played 20 minutes since the beginning of the month. He looks to be slotted into the Tre Jones 15 mpg niche. He played 11 minutes last game, and frankly, we need his shooting most nights. Vassell has clearly turned a corner in his starting role, playing more like he did off the bench. Be glad Pop isn’t here and Stephon isn’t in Austin.




Devin has shot 41% on 27 shots spread over 4 games since Fox arrived and he no longer needs to create his own 3s, so yeah, he’s turned a fucking corner.

In the 7 games since turning the corner (including tonight), Devin is averaging 11.6 ppg. 3.4 rpg, 1.9 apg, and 1.3 spg on 36.0% shooting and 19.4% from 3.

[BatManu20]

1897132497395478880

[scott]

yeah, he's turned a fucking corner

[thOOdee]

1897132497395478880

must be a full moon

[LakerHater]

1 game against the nets... chill

[mystargtr34]

Devin was TWEAKING tonight.

[Ni-G]

1 game against the nets... chill

You don't get it, he’s turned a fucking corner!!!

At the best time to ruin our tank and to trick our FO into keeping him in a false hope that he is him and then next year again old streaky Devin will be back killing momentum with bricked 3s and mercilessly pounding the air out of the rock to finally pass it at the last second to someone else for a contested shot. Oh and gambling on steals on D leaving his guy wide open in a process.

[spursparker9]

He playing at his best without any pressure

[mystargtr34]

A few more of these games this season against tanking teams and the Spurs might be able to use him as a positive trade asset this offseason.

[rankingtear]

No urgency to get rid of him. Best thing is to add more dynamic talent to scale him down. Scaled down players are more valuable than career role players.

[bigfan]

Dude looked pretty frickin fantastic last night regardless of who we played. Keep it up.

[Spurs Homer]

he looked good...

i hope the the nico harrisons of the nba were taking notes!

[stnick2261]

I can't believe how many corners this guy has turned. It's like a damn labyrinth.

[Obstructed_View]

Good for Devin. Happy to see him have a great game.

Now I'm looking forward to his having a second great game. Hell, I'd settle for not having bad games.

[Mugen]

Nice game from Devin. Let's keep pumping out these great games so we can up that trade value tbh.

[widowmaker]

This is the expectation now lets see of he can come to work every day.

[cd98]

We need to be losing. But for people that want to trade Devin, what are you expecting to get in return if you think he sucks? And if it is a bag of chips, yada, yada, then that's not a serious argument.

[z0sa]

Great game from DV.

If he can consistently do this for literally the rest of the season minus a bad game or few at the most, I'll chalk it up to the broken metatarsal and no training camp and call it a season, tbh. Haters will hate, but he's worth a look with a healthy off-season on his current contract if he can consistently score 20+ and nail 40% of his 3 pointers while defending and rebounding.

Of course, I'm betting this was another fluke game that he has every 3-7 games or so and that he'll be brickin' it up sooner rather than later. I hope not, of course. I really want to see him develop into that consistent scorer we desperately need who also has a defensive presence (especially rebounding). I just don't find it likely.

[ambchang]

^ if he can do this every game he’d be considered the GOAT

[spurraider21]

with that game he got his season 3pt% up to 34.8

[scott]

A few more of these games this season against tanking teams and the Spurs might be able to use him as a positive trade asset this offseason.

This all leads to my favorite fan narrative yo-yo, which I feel at least semi-confident that our front office won't fall for.

Devin playing bad: you can't trade him now, his value is at an all-time low!

Devin playing well: you can't trade him now, he's sooooooo good!

I get it, fans usually don't want to see their players traded and typically overestimate them... but this one cracks me up.

[scott]

with that game he got his season 3pt% up to 34.8

With that epic performance last night, he improved his Last 10 games average to 14.0 ppg on 41/29/88 :lol

Reminder: Malachi Flynn scored 50 in a game once.

[Bill_Brasky]

I'd love for him to have a good string of games so we can trade him.

[The Truth #6]

He was in his proper role, not deflating the basketball. Fox and Castle do the dribbling. Just catch and shoot is Devin should do. Maybe 1-3 dribbles. That's it. Honestly, if he could stick to 4th banana, I'd be happy, but I'm not expecting it. Could be a few full games heat checking from this game. We'll see.

[scott]

He was in his proper role, not deflating the basketball. Fox and Castle do the dribbling. Just catch and shoot is Devin should do. Maybe 1-3 dribbles. That's it. Honestly, if he could stick to 4th banana, I'd be happy, but I'm not expecting it. Could be a few full games heat checking from this game. We'll see.

Now this I can definitely get behind, and what I've been saying for months. Devin gets himself into trouble when he flips into Kobe mode. There is really no reason for Devin to take more than 3 dribbles on most occasions. Some of this is his fault because he gets blinders, but a lot of it is also on the coaching staff who keeps putting him in ball handling roles. Maybe this is just another "experiment".

Devin seems like he'd be a fine 4th banana or 6th man... maybe a little overpaid, but it's not too terrible since Wemby and Castle are on rookie deals.

[LeBowen]

Now this I can definitely get behind, and what I've been saying for months. Devin gets himself into trouble when he flips into Kobe mode. There is really no reason for Devin to take more than 3 dribbles on most occasions. Some of this is his fault because he gets blinders, but a lot of it is also on the coaching staff who keeps putting him in ball handling roles. Maybe this is just another "experiment".

Devin seems like he'd be a fine 4th banana or 6th man... maybe a little overpaid, but it's not too terrible since Wemby and Castle are on rookie deals.

As I already said many times, the only way I can see it work on playoff level is if he's the 6th man.
Fox/Castle/Devin three man guard rotation, plenty of minutes for everyone.
Have an experienced backup PG in there as an emergency failsafe.

We need to have size advantage, not give it all up by starting three guards.
If Devin can't get over himself and be the 6th man, then he's free to go.

[The Truth #6]

I don't think he can be a six man, because he can't create for himself. I think fourth banana, so to speak, is the best possible outcome on this team because he'll get better looks from standing in the corner by playing next to Fox and Castle. I think if he's on the second unit as a sixth man, he'll just recreate the same problems and destroy the second unit

[scott]

I don't think he can be a six man, because he can't create for himself. I think fourth banana, so to speak, is the best possible outcome on this team because he'll get better looks from standing in the corner by playing next to Fox and Castle. I think if he's on the second unit as a sixth man, he'll just recreate the same problems and destroy the second unit

The problem in that scenario of course that he is undersized to play SF and is destined to be hunted and abused defensively in that lineup for extended minutes. If his only path to being remotely successful is as a 4th option SF... then we should really just look to move on.

[cd98]

This year's team has had to yank players around and change roles and players have had to adjust. That may not sound complicated, but knowing your role when it changes often can make it hard to know when you should shoot or pass or force the issue. Vassell has had a down year. Last year, he was better. But given a year to play with Fox and Wemby and have a specified role will tell us if he is the right fit or not. But skill-wise, he is a good player. Certainly if he was traded, he'd have first round pick value. He isn't the dumpster fire that many Spurstalk fans try to make him because they have to find a reason to hate on at least one player on the roster at all times. He was next in line after Collins. At some point, it will be Fox. I'm just waiting to see how long it takes.

[The Truth #6]

I didn't think Devin was good last year. I think the ball hogging was clear to me last year. But being charitable, yeah I think adjusting to a role has been a challenge, and part of that is him having to accept a role, and let go of a role that he would prefer to have.

[scott]

I didn't think Devin was good last year. I think the ball hogging was clear to me last year. But being charitable, yeah I think adjusting to a role has been a challenge, and part of that is him having to accept a role, and let go of a role that he would prefer to have.

Yeah, I think it was pretty clear to a lot of last year that his regression began last year (in spite of the career high in scoring and efficiency), primarily due to the drastic drop off in his defense and an incompatible play-style.

The "SpursTalk are meanies" narrative is hilarious, like we should instead just feel blessed that the Spurs grace us with the pleasure of watching them pump in losing season after losing season. What nerve we have to have higher expectations!

[timtonymanu]

The visual that Vassell says under his breath “it’s my time to shine,” when the spurs are down by 30 is hilarious to imagine. scott :lol.

[scott]

The visual that Vassell says under his breath “it’s my time to shine,” when the spurs are down by 30 is hilarious to imagine. scott :lol.

I'll be honest... I don't even hate Vassell as much as it probably comes off, some of this shit is just hilarious to imagine and I have to post it :lol

[BackHome]

Yeah, I think it was pretty clear to a lot of last year that his regression began last year (in spite of the career high in scoring and efficiency), primarily due to the drastic drop off in his defense and an incompatible play-style.

The "SpursTalk are meanies" narrative is hilarious, like we should instead just feel blessed that the Spurs grace us with the pleasure of watching them pump in losing season after losing season. What nerve we have to have higher expectations!

I remember watching a video of a NBA player who talked about how hard it was to make it in the NBA but even harder to stay in the league. He said many players who were better then him never could make it because there main problem was they could not adjust there game to what the coaches wanted. He said many players are the man in High School and even College but when they hit the NBA they fighting just to make the team and get a little playing time. The guys who coild adjust made it and stayed the ones who couldn’t would not last

[heyheymymy]

I can't believe how many corners this guy has turned. It's like a damn labyrinth.

haha I literally lol'd

He turned the corner...at the corner factory

[Ice009]

I remember watching a video of a NBA player who talked about how hard it was to make it in the NBA but even harder to stay in the league. He said many players who were better then him never could make it because there main problem was they could not adjust there game to what the coaches wanted. He said many players are the man in High School and even College but when they hit the NBA they fighting just to make the team and get a little playing time. The guys who coild adjust made it and stayed the ones who couldn’t would not last

This would be very true. Do you remember who said it? There's probably been lots of talented players that didn't make it in the NBA because they didn't want to change their games. There's definitely been guys that are more talented than some of the reserves that went on to have long careers, but for whatever reason, they just couldn't/wouldn't adjust their game. You can even think of a high profile guy like Allen Iverson. I don't know if I am remembering right, but I recall he wouldn't take a bench role at the end of his career, and then ended up out of the league. Probably not the best example as he was towards the end of his career, but I'm sure he still could have contributed to a team.

[LakerHater]

You don't get it, he’s turned a fucking corner!!!

At the best time to ruin our tank and to trick our FO into keeping him in a false hope that he is him and then next year again old streaky Devin will be back killing momentum with bricked 3s and mercilessly pounding the air out of the rock to finally pass it at the last second to someone else for a contested shot. Oh and gambling on steals on D leaving his guy wide open in a process.
Blue font

[BackHome]

I really liked Vassell when we got him but when we got Wemby he changed he started to do way too much and you could tell he was trying to show this was also his team. It has taken way to long for him to realize that he is a 3&D player and that is his role that we need him to play and he needs just needs to focus on defense and hitting the open shots.

This year has to be crazy for him from losing his head coach to losing his starter role to Castle and to realize that your not the man anymore is a tough pill to swallow for any player. My main issue with Vassell is that I never see him do the smart things in close games and never see him really elevate his game in these situations. I think if we were to make Playoffs he would not show up in tight games and not someone you would want to play in these situations. It will be interesting to see what happens this summer do the Spurs keeps him or try and package him in a deal? Either way I hope things work out for him

[Ice009]

Vassell did actually show up in the only playoff game he's played (play-in game - not sure if you guys consider that a playoff game). It was on the road and in New Orleans too. That's why I had some hope for him as I liked how he played in that game and always refer back to it. Dejounte was absolutely horrible in it, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he missed the end of the season (all the games in April) and that was his first game back. Seemed like Devin was locked in that game and the pressure didn't get to him which I thought was a great sign at the time. Most of the other players crumbled, but Vassell seemed to play well in that game, so before last season, and also before the start of this season, I was very hopeful of him still possibly becoming a great player. Having said that, I am pretty down on him after the majority of this season. I'm hoping this season was something to do with the foot injury and subsequent surgery, and that he's still making his way back from it. I'm just not sure if that is the issue or if he's just not as good as I thought he is or could become. He's shown some real flaws these past two seasons, though. Just not recognizing players being open, being too slow to decide what to do, and not playing good defense either.

[scott]

Vassell did actually show up in the only playoff game he's played (play-in game - not sure if you guys consider that a playoff game). It was on the road and in New Orleans too. That's why I had some hope for him as I liked how he played in that game and always refer back to it. Dejounte was absolutely horrible in it, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he missed the end of the season (all the games in April) and that was his first game back. Seemed like Devin was locked in that game and the pressure didn't get to him which I thought was a great sign at the time. Most of the other players crumbled, but Vassell seemed to play well in that game, so before last season, and also before the start of this season, I was very hopeful of him still possibly becoming a great player. Having said that, I am pretty down on him after the majority of this season. I'm hoping this season was something to do with the foot injury and subsequent surgery, and that he's still making his way back from it. I'm just not sure if that is the issue or if he's just not as good as I thought he is or could become. He's shown some real flaws these past two seasons, though. Just not recognizing players being open, being too slow to decide what to do, and not playing good defense either.

To his credit, Devin also had a good game this year against PHX in the last IST game that could have sent us to those playoffs.

Interesting note: Play-In game stats don't count for anything. Not regular season, not playoffs. A weird quirk in NBA stat keeping.

[exstatic]

To his credit, Devin also had a good game this year against PHX in the last IST game that could have sent us to those playoffs.

Interesting note: Play-In game stats don't count for anything. Not regular season, not playoffs. A weird quirk in NBA stat keeping.

Same quirk applies to the IST championship game.

[scott]

Same quirk applies to the IST championship game.

Is it just the championship game or the entire IST playoffs?

You’d think a league that celebrates and thrives on all kinds of “all time” stats would find a way to include these as playoff stats.

[exstatic]

Is it just the championship game or the entire IST playoffs?

You’d think a league that celebrates and thrives on all kinds of “all time” stats would find a way to include these as playoff stats.

The IST games are just two unscheduled substitute regular season games. At the beginning of the season, everyone has 80 scheduled games, and as the IST resolves, the eight pool winners go to Vegas, then resolve 8 -> 4 then 4 -> 2 for the two missing games, but the championship game is game 83 for those teams, and the stats don’t count. The rest of the teams are matched up for their missing two games over the period just before and just after Vegas.

[rankingtear]

He is buying in the last few games, his stocks are trending to what it was in Florida State and shooting clean spot up 3's. Fox and Castle need that release valve beside them above the break when driving that is why Devin is still racking up minutes. Both Barnes and Champ are more corner 3 players, there is only Devin who is good on that spot on the floor.

[Raven]

he's the online one who gives a damn in that starting lineup

[spurraider21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Cyijd2p8E

[Ice009]

I don't know why Lonnie was out of the NBA. He's definitely an NBA player. Great game from him.

[Obstructed_View]

Mr October finding ways to affect the game without the ball in his hands.

[spursistan]

This guy is the proper incarnation of 'loser ball'. He is the perfect 'stealth tanking' asset :lol

[Spurs Homer]

Goddamnit

we can never beat luka!

wait….we lost to these mavs?

[spurraider21]

has he turned a corner, tbh?

1900016044980527487

[scott]

Gotta love a sample size skewed heavily by one game.

If you exclude his 37 point game, he’s averaging 16.3 on .435/.288 shooting splits, further illustrating the biggest complaint about him, his inconsistency.

[baseline bum]

Didn't he almost drown in three inches of water?

[KobesAchilles]

I hope he is back. He’s our best shot at drafting his replacement

[spurraider21]

Didn't he almost drown in three inches of water?
sharp as a fuckin cue ball, that one

[baseline bum]

sharp as a fuckin cue ball, that one

All I know is he never had the makings of a varsity athlete.

[spursparker9]

Returning to form after there is no hope of playoffs

[Gagnrath]

This would be very true. Do you remember who said it? There's probably been lots of talented players that didn't make it in the NBA because they didn't want to change their games. There's definitely been guys that are more talented than some of the reserves that went on to have long careers, but for whatever reason, they just couldn't/wouldn't adjust their game. You can even think of a high profile guy like Allen Iverson. I don't know if I am remembering right, but I recall he wouldn't take a bench role at the end of his career, and then ended up out of the league. Probably not the best example as he was towards the end of his career, but I'm sure he still could have contributed to a team.


Wait I thought the problem with Allen Iverson was practice...

[exstatic]

Returning to form after there is no hope of playoffs

There hasn’t been any hope of the playoffs for over a month. That went out the window when Wemby developed DVT.

[Gagnrath]

I don't know why Lonnie was out of the NBA. He's definitely an NBA player. Great game from him.


Because he was being inappropriate with various women publicly enough to make the media. Role players can lay all the arena groupies they want but you can't flash hotel staff in the halls and you can't hit on team medical personal.

[stephen jackson]

Because he was being inappropriate with various women publicly enough to make the media. Role players can lay all the arena groupies they want but you can't flash hotel staff in the halls and you can't hit on team medical personal.
Huh ? You talking about primo ?

[Gagnrath]

Huh ? You talking about primo ?
Lonnie Walker Iv the guard from texas drafted really young not ready, then had the sexual stuff.
Primo guard had a qualifying offer rescinded went to the Lakers to play with LeBron was always kinda hit or miss microwave player with the spurs never seemed real interested in defense, tended to have goofy hair and shared an agent with LeBron.

[rogcl1]

Lonnie Walker Iv the guard from texas drafted really young not ready, then had the sexual stuff.
Primo guard had a qualifying offer rescinded went to the Lakers to play with LeBron was always kinda hit or miss microwave player with the spurs never seemed real interested in defense, tended to have goofy hair and shared an agent with LeBron.

I think you might be mixed up. Lonnie himself revealed he had been the victim of sexual abuse as a child and he went to HS in Pennsylvania and college at Miami. Sounds like Primo from the allegations and he is from Canada an then played at Alabama.

[scott]

Lonnie Walker Iv the guard from texas drafted really young not ready, then had the sexual stuff.
Primo guard had a qualifying offer rescinded went to the Lakers to play with LeBron was always kinda hit or miss microwave player with the spurs never seemed real interested in defense, tended to have goofy hair and shared an agent with LeBron.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/TaZHgDy29bEAAAAC/not-sure-if-serious.gif

[Sugus]

Because he was being inappropriate with various women publicly enough to make the media. Role players can lay all the arena groupies they want but you can't flash hotel staff in the halls and you can't hit on team medical personal.

The fuck? :lol

Please post a source on this, because never have I ever heard stuff like this about Lonnie - quite the opposite, by all accounts. Sounds like something that would've made the rounds here, at least, right?

[tonight...you]

The fuck? :lol

Please post a source on this, because never have I ever heard stuff like this about Lonnie - quite the opposite, by all accounts. Sounds like something that would've made the rounds here, at least, right?
He's totally confusing him with Primo.

[Raven]

carrying the team.

[BackHome]

Hopefully to a number 1 pick like we got with Wemby

[RC_Drunkford]

Lonnie Walker Iv the guard from texas drafted really young not ready, then had the sexual stuff.
Primo guard had a qualifying offer rescinded went to the Lakers to play with LeBron was always kinda hit or miss microwave player with the spurs never seemed real interested in defense, tended to have goofy hair and shared an agent with LeBron.

this is hilarious. You don‘t even know who‘s who :lol

[Ice009]

Because he was being inappropriate with various women publicly enough to make the media. Role players can lay all the arena groupies they want but you can't flash hotel staff in the halls and you can't hit on team medical personal.

Thanks, but I was talking about Lonnie Walker IV. You seem to have him confused with Josh Primo.

[spursince#99]

This dude is so bad now. Makes me wonder if he’s lost a step due to the foot surgery. He seems incredibly slow, especially on the defensive end.

[baseline bum]

This dude is so bad now. Makes me wonder if he’s lost a step due to the foot surgery. He seems incredibly slow, especially on the defensive end.

He was just as shitty defensively last year. Dude has the body and the athleticism to be elite defensively but his main character syndrome has him thinking he's Kobe when he needs to be Rick Fox.

[Dex]

He was just as shitty defensively last year. Dude has the body and the athleticism to be elite defensively but his main character syndrome has him thinking he's Kobe when he needs to be Rick Fox.

He was never a good defender, and the injuries haven't helped his cause there.

Every now and then he will have a good block, but his defensive IQ and overall quickness are not good. Consistently misses rotations or just defends useless space.

But he is more focused on getting the ball back on offense so he can try to pretend to be Durant.

[mystargtr34]

He was just as shitty defensively last year. Dude has the body and the athleticism to be elite defensively but his main character syndrome has him thinking he's Kobe when he needs to be Rick Fox.

I don’t think he has the lateral quickness to be a good defender. He’s got good size and length for the 2 guard spot, and good vertical pop when he gets a good run up lol.. but that’s about it. Everything else is poor, lateral quickness, IQ/anticipation, poor hustle and motor, poor strength due to slender frame and skinny legs/waist.

[rankingtear]

A lot of it is the skinny legs. Can't do anything about genes.

[Jordan Jackson]

Who’s the better player Austin Reaves or Devin Vassell?

Simmons claims Reaves camp was waiting for an offer from the Spurs that never materialized. Even though they - the Spurs - said they would put forward an offer.

Seems like the Spurs bet on Vassell in the end.

[exstatic]

Who’s the better player Austin Reaves or Devin Vassell?

Simmons claims Reaves camp was waiting for an offer from the Spurs that never materialized. Even though they - the Spurs - said they would put forward an offer.

Seems like the Spurs bet on Vassell in the end.

I think the Spurs didn’t want to get into a long term offer sheet pissing contest with LA.

[scott]

Who’s the better player Austin Reaves or Devin Vassell?

Simmons claims Reaves camp was waiting for an offer from the Spurs that never materialized. Even though they - the Spurs - said they would put forward an offer.

Seems like the Spurs bet on Vassell in the end.

Reaves was a better player then, and is a better player now. Same goes with Herro, who there was some chatter about when Dame was trying to force his way to MIA. The Spurs put their chips on Devin Vassell, and it hasn't really worked out so far. We'll see how it goes going forward.

[The Truth #6]

Wright acknowledged that Zollins was a disaster and traded him so there's hope the FO has some reality testing, though the Zollins dump may have been for flipping the bird, or whatever.

[exstatic]

Wright acknowledged that Zollins was a disaster and traded him so there's hope the FO has some reality testing, though the Zollins dump may have been for flipping the bird, or whatever.

Copium. Wright acknowledged that he needed salary outgoing in a trade.

[scott]

Was trying to do a mock rebuild of the Spurs in 2k over the weekend, and honestly struggled to find a landing spot for Vassell. The teams I thought he'd fit best (MIL, for example) don't have a path to matching salary while complying with apron rules.

It might be tougher to shed this guy that we think (if that's what the team even wants to do). Best I could come up with was Devin for an opted-in Middleton which would save us 3 years of Devin's deal, but not sure WAS would do that.

Not sure if SAC even wanted Devin, but the Fox deal might have been the best opportunity to unload Devin.

[The Truth #6]

Copium. Wright acknowledged that he needed salary outgoing in a trade.

He traded him. He was barely playing. Just looking at objective results. And making an interpretation.

[rankingtear]

Who’s the better player Austin Reaves or Devin Vassell?

Simmons claims Reaves camp was waiting for an offer from the Spurs that never materialized. Even though they - the Spurs - said they would put forward an offer.

Seems like the Spurs bet on Vassell in the end.

Reaves said himself there was an offer from SA and HOU. He has to sign for it to be an official offer sheet.

[CGD]

Reaves said himself there was an offer from SA and HOU. He has to sign for it to be an official offer sheet.

Simmons also said that, as a pressure tactic, the Lakers gave the player a deadline to shit or get off the pot, so this would make sense.

[Ice009]

What does that mean? The Spurs put in an offer, but Reeves didn't want to sign it?

[exstatic]

What does that mean? The Spurs put in an offer, but Reeves didn't want to sign it?

It probably wasn’t the offer they were looking for to pressure the Laker to up their ante.

[Jordan Jackson]

What does that mean? The Spurs put in an offer, but Reeves didn't want to sign it?

Not sure about the other comments. But Simmons clearly states to Russillo that Reaves camp waited for an offer sheet from the Spurs that never came. Lakers were surprised as well and the proceed to pressure Reaves.

Should be around the 1:41:00 mark.

[Ice009]

So Reeves was likely using the Spurs to get the Lakers to match the offer? Did he have any intention to wanting to play for the Spurs, or is it more likely he just wanted to get the Lakers to pay more?
I can't remember, what season was he a restricted FA?

[scott]

Yeah he was a restricted FA.

Sounds like he was hoping the Spurs would help him drive his price up to LA, but the Spurs had decided on Vassell over Reaves and weren’t going to play that game so Reaves was just left with whatever the Lakers were offering.

[rankingtear]

Everybody knows that offer sheet would end up in Pelinka's desk the moment you give it to Reave's agent.

[Ice009]

Everybody knows that offer sheet would end up in Pelinka's desk the moment you give it to Reave's agent.

Yeah, true. I am sort of glad the Spurs didn't give him an offer sheet just so he could turn around and stay in LA and get more money to do it while tying up the Spurs' cap space. If he wanted to stay in LA that bad, he could take the pay cut. I doubt he really wanted to come here.

[spurraider21]

one might say he turned a corner

1903241940159910271

[Leetonidas]

one might say he turned a corner

1903241940159910271

Objectively good tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

he looks like he's back to 100%, but it's to be seen how he looks in an offense where he's the 3rd or most likely 4th option

[exstatic]

one might say he turned a corner

1903241940159910271

Nah, just a series of 10+ flukey games. Just 10 small samples.

[scott]

one might say he turned a corner

1903241940159910271

If you take away the BKN game, he's shooting .436/.346 in March (this includes today's game against PHI where he shot .438/.500).

His season averages? .436/.352

He's turned the corner of the cul-de-sac where his house is.

[Gibbz]

If you take away the BKN game, he's shooting .436/.346 in March (this includes today's game against PHI where he shot .438/.500).

His season averages? .436/.352

He's turned the corner of the cul-de-sac where his house is.

Well when you simply exclude a really good performance of course the numbers are worse. Go ahead and take away that game and his worst shooting game of the month and it's .446/.383--not all-world but wayyy better than February. It's improvement.

[scott]

Well when you simply exclude a really good performance of course the numbers are worse. Go ahead and take away that game and his worst shooting game of the month and it's .446/.383--not all-world but wayyy better than February. It's improvement.

Which game are you counting as his worst shooting performance of the month?



If we exclude BKN and the game where he shot the worst from 3 (OKC, .143 on 7 3PA shots), then he is at .435/.365
If we exclude BKN and the game where he shot the worst overall from the field (SAC, .308 on 13 shots), then he is .447/.356
If we exclude BKN game and the game where he missed the most shots (12 versus DAL, .455 on 22 shots), then he at .433/.342
If we exclude the BKN game and ALL THREE of these games, he climbs all the way up to .446/.379


The point of this is... he's not really having a March that is all that different from the rest of his season. He's been pretty much the same guy he's been all year, plus one amazing game.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Which game are you counting as his worst shooting performance of the month?



If we exclude BKN and the game where he shot the worst from 3 (OKC, .143 on 7 3PA shots), then he is at .435/.365
If we exclude BKN and the game where he shot the worst overall from the field (SAC, .308 on 13 shots), then he is .447/.356
If we exclude BKN game and the game where he missed the most shots (12 versus DAL, .455 on 22 shots), then he at .433/.342
If we exclude the BKN game and ALL THREE of these games, he climbs all the way up to .446/.379


The point of this is... he's not really having a March that is all that different from the rest of his season. He's been pretty much the same guy he's been all year, plus one amazing game.

His defense has improved quite well in the last month or so. Fsr more attentive and better on the ball than early season. He is also impacting off the ball.

His 3P shooting has been up and down but more up than down than before. He still frustrates in some portions of the game but I think he is getting better as the season progresses. There is definitely no reason to consider him as trade fodder before trying him out with a healthy Wemby, Fox, Castle core.

[baseline bum]

If you take away the BKN game, he's shooting .436/.346 in March (this includes today's game against PHI where he shot .438/.500).

His season averages? .436/.352

He's turned the corner of the cul-de-sac where his house is.

I'd rather just take away all his games and send him to Phoenix or somewhere winning doesn't matter.

[scott]

His defense has improved quite well in the last month or so. Fsr more attentive and better on the ball than early season. He is also impacting off the ball.

His 3P shooting has been up and down but more up than down than before. He still frustrates in some portions of the game but I think he is getting better as the season progresses. There is definitely no reason to consider him as trade fodder before trying him out with a healthy Wemby, Fox, Castle core.

This is a predictable trap.

Devin performing around or below league average (which is his norm): "We can't trade him now while his value is low!"

Devin performs well for a short stretch (which is slightly above league average): "We can't trade him now, he's too valuable! We need to see what he can do with [whoever]"

Can't wait to enter Year 6 of the Devin Vassell Discovery Process.

[SpurSpike]

Lonnie Walker Iv the guard from texas drafted really young not ready, then had the sexual stuff.
Primo guard had a qualifying offer rescinded went to the Lakers to play with LeBron was always kinda hit or miss microwave player with the spurs never seemed real interested in defense, tended to have goofy hair and shared an agent with LeBron.

Dude you got those backwards...

[BackHome]

I am OK with keeping him but I have no problem including him in a trade if it makes our team better long term

[mystargtr34]

One of the potential positives of tanking is that lesser players like Vassell get the ball more and get to showcase themselves and increase their trade value (potentially).

Vassell in 13 games in March.
19.5 PPG
5.5 RPG
3.5 APG
.487 FG%
.398 3FG% on 7.5 attempts.
.870 FT%

Massive increase in raw stats, and efficiency since a horrific February, and easily better than any other month this season.

Now as Spurs fans we know this is mostly empty calories and low impact stats and his defense is atrocious, but there’s no doubt ye has increased his trade value this month. Hopefully he keeps it up.

[exstatic]

One of the potential positives of tanking is that lesser players like Vassell get the ball more and get to showcase themselves and increase their trade value (potentially).

Vassell in 13 games in March.
19.5 PPG
5.5 RPG
3.5 APG
.487 FG%
.398 3FG% on 7.5 attempts.
.870 FT%

Massive increase in raw stats, and efficiency since a horrific February, and easily better than any other month this season.

Now as Spurs fans we know this is mostly empty calories and low impact stats and his defense is atrocious, but there’s no doubt ye has increased his trade value this month. Hopefully he keeps it up.

Nah, that all hinges on just one good game. Just ask scott.

[Spurs Homer]

this dude is ballin' - man i sure hope no one like nico harrison is keeping track or spurs might trade him!

[couchman]

Devin looks more stable on his feet recently.
I think he may finally be back to 100% after the foot injury.

He’s even tried more on defense, but he’s just not good there.
I think part of the problem is that he bulked up a few years ago and became very top heavy.
None of that bulk went to his legs.
His lateral quickness disappeared with that and he sucks on defense now.
If I was his agent I’d get him to slim back down.
He would not only play better but it might reduce injuries.

[LeBowen]

Challenge: Find a non-tanking team that would have interest in Devin as an actually valuable player and would trade for him.

I went over all the rosters and can't find a single great fit for him. Pistons maybe, but they have Ivey and will probably get a discount this summer due to his injury.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Challenge: Find a non-tanking team that would have interest in Devin as an actually valuable player and would trade for him.

I went over all the rosters and can't find a single great fit for him. Pistons maybe, but they have Ivey and will probably get a discount this summer due to his injury.

Yeah. Let me ring up the GMs of these teams and get back.

In all seriousness, beating up on Vassell when he seems to have worked on his weaknesses in the early and mid season is futile. He deserves the chance to showcase his improvements in a lineup featuring healthy Wemby and Fox before being dumped in a trade. That is what his March numbers suggest.

[LeBowen]

Yeah. Let me ring up the GMs of these teams and get back.

:downspin:
You get the point I was trying to make. Look at the rosters and try to find a decent team that needs a traditional shooting guard making $27M and would has players Spurs would want in return.


In all seriousness, beating up on Vassell when he seems to have worked on his weaknesses in the early and mid season is futile. He deserves the chance to showcase his improvements in a lineup featuring healthy Wemby and Fox before being dumped in a trade. That is what his March numbers suggest.

Haters would say that his March numbers are all the proof you need of him not being a good fit for this roster.
Castle will clearly be a better player, if he's not better already when you look at both ends of the floor.

You don't want to bench Castle for Devin and playing both of them together with Fox just puts us at an unnecessary disadvantage size-wise.
It can work, but it will never be optimal.

They're obviously trying to redevelop Devin into a off the ball shooter, but he'll always have his Kobe tendencies.
Imo, his optimal role would be the 6th man, I don't really care if his ego can take it.
If that gentleman from your profile picture accepted the 6th man role, so can Devin.

[BacktoBasics]

I like Devin. More than most here and I’d love to see him remain a Spur. But he always seems to play better when there’s nothing on the line.

[Spursfanfromafar]

:downspin:
You get the point I was trying to make. Look at the rosters and try to find a decent team that needs a traditional shooting guard making $27M and would has players Spurs would want in return.



Haters would say that his March numbers are all the proof you need of him not being a good fit for this roster.
Castle will clearly be a better player, if he's not better already when you look at both ends of the floor.

You don't want to bench Castle for Devin and playing both of them together with Fox just puts us at an unnecessary disadvantage size-wise.
It can work, but it will never be optimal.

They're obviously trying to redevelop Devin into a off the ball shooter, but he'll always have his Kobe tendencies.
Imo, his optimal role would be the 6th man, I don't really care if his ego can take it.
If that gentleman from your profile picture accepted the 6th man role, so can Devin.

There is no indication that the coaching staff asked Devin to be the 6th man role and he refused. So there is no reason to doubt that he will accept such a role if offered.

I agree with you that Castle must start along with Fox. The question is whether Devin will play the 3 then or if Castle himself will be the wing. And if both situations are sub-optimal should Devin be the sixth man. I think the answer will be available based on whether we land a high lottery pick or manage to get Cam Johnson or maybe pry someone like Derrick White from the Celtics (who want to get below the second apron) and so on. If none of such scenarios pan out, the Spurs can try Devin at an optimum role alongside the Fox-Castle-Wemby core and figure out what could be.

All I am saying that Vassell's play in the last month suggests that being dumped in a trade (unless the Spurs are blown by a great offer) isn't inevitable and that he can be given a chance to thrive alongside the new core.

[LeBowen]

If none of such scenarios pan out, the Spurs can try Devin at an optimum role alongside the Fox-Castle-Wemby core and figure out what could be.

We already saw what could be. We'll just get killed on the glass, it's not even just about defense.
Or for example those Grizzlies matchups when Bane just ran through Devin over and over again. And I won't hold that against Devin because he's a guard, not a forward.

Then we go back to Wemby situation and his tirendess before the blood clot situation. In most games, multiple opponents were crashing the glass with Spurs not having enough to box them out and Wemby had to expend a lot of energy on rebounding. Can't expect him to be the only presence in the paint on defense and then to go to the other end of the floor and play in the post.

My take is that we need a modern PF, the Naz/Aldama archetype, a player who can do a bit of everything.
Barnes should start for another season because he's our by far the most reliable 3pt shooter and has some size, although starting him at PF isn't optimal, he's too small for a lot of PFs.

[Seventyniner]

Imo, his optimal role would be the 6th man, I don't really care if his ego can take it.
If that gentleman from your profile picture accepted the 6th man role, so can Devin.

If Devin can't be convinced to be the 6th man by Pop and Manu, he will never be convinced.

[rankingtear]

Challenge: Find a non-tanking team that would have interest in Devin as an actually valuable player and would trade for him.

I went over all the rosters and can't find a single great fit for him. Pistons maybe, but they have Ivey and will probably get a discount this summer due to his injury.

Orlando is a no brainer.

[LeBowen]

Orlando is a no brainer.

I thought so too, but their cap situation isn't great.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/ORL.html

Shooting is their biggest issue, but they also need an actual point guard, Suggs isn't one.
Trae is an ideal target for them, tbh.

I'm not sure who would we even want aside from two players they obviously won't trade.
WCJ's salary will jump from 10 to 18 million in 26-27 season.

[scott]

Nah, that all hinges on just one good game. Just ask scott.

It was at the time I posted that. I realize you lack any form of critical thinking skills, but maybe you can look up the Wikipedia entry for "Time" to understand how that works.

He's up to .464/.373 excluding his outlier game, which is an improvement. The stats above also don't include the DET game. He's actually up to 19.8ppg on .486/.409

It should come as little shock that the man with Main Character Syndrome is thriving now that he's allowed to be the Main Character. Maybe if we just dedicate ourselves to building completely around Devin, we can finally unlock his full potential. That seems smart.

[exstatic]

It was at the time I posted that. I realize you lack any form of critical thinking skills, but maybe you can look up the Wikipedia entry for "Time" to understand how that works.

He's up to .464/.373 excluding his outlier game, which is an improvement. The stats above also don't include the DET game. He's actually up to 19.8ppg on .486/.409

It should come as little shock that the man with Main Character Syndrome is thriving now that he's allowed to be the Main Character. Maybe if we just dedicate ourselves to building completely around Devin, we can finally unlock his full potential. That seems smart.

No sense of humor.

[scott]

Challenge: Find a non-tanking team that would have interest in Devin as an actually valuable player and would trade for him.

I went over all the rosters and can't find a single great fit for him. Pistons maybe, but they have Ivey and will probably get a discount this summer due to his injury.

I've thought MIL would actually be a nice fit for Devin, but they have no actual path to trading for him anymore (Middleton would have been the opportunity) without some convoluted 3-team trade or in a S&T by overpaying Lopez (which the Spurs should not be interested in). He could fit in as a 3rd option with the starting lineup and second option in staggered minutes with Dame. That's the best playoff team fit I can think of.

The Magic would be the other team in the east where if I squint my eyes really hard I might see a fit, but he would be relegated to a 4th option there as well, a role he clearly cannot thrive in.

In the west, the Suns are the only team I can think of if they could somehow get off of Beal - then they could use Devin, but it's not like he's the missing piece or anything. They'd probably still be nothing more than a play-in team who needs to blow it up. Dev would be a fine tank commander for them in a scenario where they did blow it up though. I don't really want Durant, but maybe we can get in on their dismantling and Devin gets routed there while we pick up some useful pieces for participating in the deal.

That's the full list as I see it.

[scott]

No sense of humor.

My apologies. :bobo

[scott]

If none of such scenarios pan out, the Spurs can try Devin at an optimum role alongside the Fox-Castle-Wemby core and figure out what could be.

All I am saying that Vassell's play in the last month suggests that being dumped in a trade (unless the Spurs are blown by a great offer) isn't inevitable and that he can be given a chance to thrive alongside the new core.

My fear is that we get sucked in this trap where when it appears Devin isn't a good fit (like pretty much all of this season before March), then it's "we can't trade Devin while his value is down", but then when he has a good month when the team is tanking, there is no pressure and he's handed the keys to be Main Character Dev it's "we can't trade Devin now, we have to see if he can sustain this!"

We're entering Year 6 of the YungDev0 experience... we shouldn't still be trying to figure out what could be.

With all that said... I like the idea of 6th Man Dev (and I've said as much before). It allows him to be his most comfortable self (ball-dominant Kobe-lite) where his defensive limitations are less damaging to the team. It also solves the biggest problem with Devin on the current roster, which is the idea of Devin (or Castle) playing SF. It is suboptimal, to put it lightly. I just can't take a lineup with Devin starting at SF seriously. If we didn't have Castle (or say we had drafted Risacher instead of Castle), then this wouldn't be a problem and I think Devin would be fine as our starting SG and I wouldn't have this stupid avatar. :lol But, IMO... SF Devin is a non-starter.

Now, if we're talking about Devin's best role being 6th man, I think it does lead to another conversation that requires resolution. Devin vs. Keldon. These two absolutely cannot share the court together (I had another thread with data on this topic but I cannot find it). We are just BAD when they share the court (which they do a lot):

https://i.imgur.com/hpsysdU.png

So, IMO, one of these guys has got to go. I actually like the way Keldon has played post ASB, and the choice between them is actually closer than I would expect. I like that Keldon's contract (both in the $ and the length) a lot better. But so will other teams, and I think Keldon will be a lot easier to move. I think it will actually be a lot harder to find a trade partner for Devin and his deal than we might think. It's kind of an awkward size and the teams where he fits best (MIL, PHX) are 2nd apron teams who can't aggregate and don't have anything nice to match up with it.

Lastly, I wanted to show the same chart above for the Vassell-Castle pairing, which also tells the story of why I believe 1) Castle should be prioritized over Devin (this shouldn't be controversial) and 2) they shouldn't start together.

https://i.imgur.com/3jLia1G.png

[KobesAchilles]

Either him or Sochan would look mighty good in a Washington Wizards uniform. But I’d call Dallas or LAL and see what pick they have left to trade for him. Those two GMs would do it in a heartbeat

[Seventyniner]

The way the Bucks keep trying to win now by shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, I would call them and propose far out draft capital + Kuzma for Devin.

Kuzma sucks but his contract is a lot shorter and at least he plays forward. Though the idea of him and Keldon on the floor at the same time is truly barf-worthy.

Devin for Middleton straight up is another possibility, not sure if the Wiz would be interested.

[exstatic]

The way the Bucks keep trying to win now by shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, I would call them and propose far out draft capital + Kuzma for Devin.

Kuzma sucks but his contract is a lot shorter and at least he plays forward. Though the idea of him and Keldon on the floor at the same time is truly barf-worthy.

Devin for Middleton straight up is another possibility, not sure if the Wiz would be interested.

Kuzma is a complete dumbass, and Middleton is cooked, well done cooked.

[Ice009]

I thought I saw last game where Toby was saying that Keldon is the 3rd leading scorer out of all bench players in the entire NBA and he was pretty close to second place. Did I hear that right? If so, surely he has some decent trade value.
And Vassell's numbers also look better this month, so maybe that has also boosted his trade value positively. The Spurs can mention he's looking better due to his foot. If he finishes off the season strong, they should get the team media to start writing articles saying that his foot was healed and that he was able to finally start playing well (This very well could be what has happened - might have been mostly health related rather than the games not mattering, but without knowing for sure, may as well sell it as he's starting to come good health wise).

[Raven]

I don't get the fascination with wanting to trade a player entering his prime, that can do a bit of everything. Not that I'm opposed to trading for a game breaking player like donut, but it seems like you guys would trade him for a bag of peanuts and make claims about defence that I just don't see.

[spurraider21]

I don't get the fascination with wanting to trade a player entering his prime, that can do a bit of everything. Not that I'm opposed to trading for a game breaking player like donut, but it seems like you guys would trade him for a bag of peanuts and make claims about defence that I just don't see.
he doesnt pass the eye test tbh

[Raven]

he doesnt pass the eye test tbh

he really does.. he didn't last year, his D was atrocious, but this year he's a legitimate player.. yes he's bad on some specific rotations, yeah i know.. but he's the least of our problems in a lineup with barnes, byombo and cp3, which are all among the worst defenders in the league

[cd98]

I don't get the fascination with wanting to trade a player entering his prime, that can do a bit of everything. Not that I'm opposed to trading for a game breaking player like donut, but it seems like you guys would trade him for a bag of peanuts and make claims about defence that I just don't see.

This is Spurstalk. They will be demanding the Spurs trade Castle for a washed up player in two years because they secretly think that every player sucks except Tim Duncan. I'm sure they will say we should not super max Wemby.

[scott]

he really does.. he didn't last year, his D was atrocious, but this year he's a legitimate player.. yes he's bad on some specific rotations, yeah i know.. but he's the least of our problems in a lineup with barnes, byombo and cp3, which are all among the worst defenders in the league

Every time you post, it's like an admission that you don't know anything about basketball.

https://i.imgur.com/ogAq4lE.png

[ambchang]

I’m not sold of Vassell as he seems to be regressing every year. The last two (or was that three) years, hed be disappointing or straight out terrible to start the year, once the season is practically over and we start tanking, he suddenly and oddly plays better.

I want him to do well of course but at this point we are looking at a fairly common archetype of a low efficiency scorer who can’t do anything else. To top it off he can’t even create good shots. Last year he looked like a legit scorer for a bit but it was because he was nailing difficult shots at an unusually high rate, laws of averages caught up and he’s exposed.

I don’t want to give him away but if the right trade comes along, say for a decent 3D player or a good shooting big, I’d be all over it.

[ambchang]

Every time you post, it's like an admission that you don't know anything about basketball.

https://i.imgur.com/ogAq4lE.png

Is that the side profile of the Mariana’s trench?

[KobesAchilles]

he really does.. he didn't last year, his D was atrocious, but this year he's a legitimate player.. yes he's bad on some specific rotations, yeah i know.. but he's the least of our problems in a lineup with barnes, byombo and cp3, which are all among the worst defenders in the league
He sucks at defense and is a ball stopper. Two horrible traits to have on this team going forward. He also takes extremely stupid shots and just doesn’t have court awareness. I’m glad he is finally looking good, but there’s zero pressure bc we are out of the playoff race and he’s taking all the shots. These are things I don’t value from Vassell.

Btw the team is worse with him on the floor with our starters and it isn’t even close. His advance numbers are trash

[dn0774]

#1 Rule of Team Building: Don't overvalue summer league performance or last 6 weeks of a tanking season performance when making major personnel decisions.

[baseline bum]

he really does.. he didn't last year, his D was atrocious, but this year he's a legitimate player.. yes he's bad on some specific rotations, yeah i know.. but he's the least of our problems in a lineup with barnes, byombo and cp3, which are all among the worst defenders in the league

He's really not. The best thing about Vassell's game is that he's a league average three point shooter.

[BackHome]

#1 Rule of Team Building: Don't overvalue summer league performance or last 6 weeks of a tanking season performance when making major personnel decisions.

+10000000000000000000

[Raven]

Every time you post, it's like an admission that you don't know anything about basketball.

https://i.imgur.com/ogAq4lE.png

you always post this darko function, as if it has ever been shown to be a quality one.. it seems a truism to me, that it very much isn't, no amount of posting it will do anything to convince me.

[CGD]

Orlando is a no brainer.

I think Miami would do a Wiggs-Dev swap. They supposedly wanted to hold powder dry for 2026 free agency, but I wonder if that’s changed with Luka moving to LAL.

[scott]

you always post this darko function, as if it has ever been shown to be a quality one.. it seems a truism to me, that it very much isn't, no amount of posting it will do anything to convince me.

I get it. Your brain no understand big math. Eye test better for wittle brain.

Maybe reddit or twitter is more your speed?

[scott]

My favorite fun fact is how every regular rotation player on our team other than Sochan has a worse Net Rating when sharing the court with Devin.



Player
NetRtg Without Devin
NetRtg With Devin
Devin NetRtg Without Player
NetRtg with Neither


CP3
1.82
-2.22
-12.88
1.88


Wemby
8.53
-3.25
-7.99
-4.14


Castle
-0.15
-5.41
-6.66
4.56


Barnes
1.09
-3.65
-9.28
2.78


Sochan
-5.17
1.21
-11.17
5.65


Keldon
-3.69
-7.34
-5.07
7.97


Champ
2.87
-7.48
-5.52
2.87



I'm sure these are all somehow Castle's fault.

[baseline bum]

My favorite fun fact is how every regular rotation player on our team other than Sochan has a worse Net Rating when sharing the court with Devin.



Player
NetRtg Without Devin
NetRtg With Devin
Devin NetRtg Without Player
NetRtg with Neither


CP3
1.82
-2.22
-12.88
1.88


Wemby
8.53
-3.25
-7.99
-4.14


Castle
-0.15
-5.41
-6.66
4.56


Barnes
1.09
-3.65
-9.28
2.78


Sochan
-5.17
1.21
-11.17
5.65


Keldon
-3.69
-7.34
-5.07
7.97


Champ
2.87
-7.48
-5.52
2.87



I'm sure these are all somehow Castle's fault.

Really gotta move him before it starts costing draft capital to do an addition by subtraction. It's like watching how badly Jefferson was dragging the team down years ago, though I doubt his numbers were anywhere near as alarming as Vassell's.

[Raven]

I get it. Your brain no understand big math. Eye test better for wittle brain.

Maybe reddit or twitter is more your speed?

no you don't get it, that's the problem :lol

[scott]

no you don't get it, that's the problem :lol

oh noes i did not pass eye test :cry

[baseline bum]

oh noes i did not pass eye test :cry

Seriously, if you're bad at everything but three point shooting and nearly half the league shoots the three better than you do (Vassell .362, league average .360) how are you not a scrub ass piece of shit?

[scott]

Seriously, if you're bad at everything but three point shooting and nearly half the league shoots the three better than you do (Vassell .362, league average .360) how are you not a scrub ass piece of shit?

it's Castle's fault, according to raven

[Ice009]

I was actually starting to think Devin was playing pretty well and maybe it was due to him finally feeling better with his foot, but you guys shut that down a bit by showing that his teammates aren't doing well in lineups with him in it. I'm usually one that thinks he plays well when the pressure if off, but this season I really was thinking it's due to the foot and he was still getting back from that, but maybe not. I don't know. I just wonder if the Spurs are going to give him yet another chance with the way it looks like he's finishing the season. It's starting to seem like the "fool's gold" thing people used to say around here years ago.

[ambchang]

you always post this darko function, as if it has ever been shown to be a quality one.. it seems a truism to me, that it very much isn't, no amount of posting it will do anything to convince me.

I agree. Can’t compete with your eye tests.

[LeBowen]

I agree. Can’t compete with your eye tests.

https://media.tenor.com/P7JgU14h5LcAAAAM/curb-your-enthusiasm-curb.gif

Eye test > DARKO.

[Raven]

I was actually starting to think Devin was playing pretty well and maybe it was due to him finally feeling better with his foot, but you guys shut that down a bit by showing that his teammates aren't doing well in lineups with him in it. I'm usually one that thinks he plays well when the pressure if off, but this season I really was thinking it's due to the foot and he was still getting back from that, but maybe not. I don't know. I just wonder if the Spurs are going to give him yet another chance with the way it looks like he's finishing the season. It's starting to seem like the "fool's gold" thing people used to say around here years ago.

they are gaslighting you by not normalising the data. for example, the data takes into account the performance when you're down by 20, the same as when you're tied, as if the opposition is trying in the same way. They also not account for the specific amount of time you saw a change. Granted, it's tangible and easy to consume, so there's that, but it doesn't show anything really.

[Raven]

https://media.tenor.com/P7JgU14h5LcAAAAM/curb-your-enthusiasm-curb.gif

Eye test > DARKO.

do you even know what it claims to measure, since you post it so much?

[LeBowen]

they are gaslighting you by not normalising the data. for example, the data takes into account the performance when you're down by 20, the same as when you're tied, as if the opposition is trying in the same way. They also not account for the specific amount of time you saw a change. Granted, it's tangible and easy to consume, so there's that, but it doesn't show anything really.

You dug yourself so deep that you'd fall right through if the Earth was flat. Maybe you'll end up in China, like your favorite player will when his current contract is done.


do you even know what it claims to measure, since you post it so much?

I never post DARKO graphs, scott does it.
I prefer the eye test.

[Raven]

You dug yourself so deep that you'd fall right through if the Earth was flat. Maybe you'll end up in China, like your favorite player will when his current contract is done.



I never post DARKO graphs, scott does it.
I prefer the eye test.

well, just to clear that, it is a predictive algorithm based on 5 year performance .. do i need to say more?

[LeBowen]

well, just to clear that, it is a predictive algorithm based on 5 year performance .. do i need to say more?

Yes, you do. If it was just that one metric showing Devin is a negative on the court, then you'd have an argument.
But he's a negative by every possible advanced metric.

Look at that on/off chart, I guess it's not his fault everyone has a worse rating when he's on the floor.
Maybe we should trade everyone and build around Devin.

[exstatic]

I was actually starting to think Devin was playing pretty well and maybe it was due to him finally feeling better with his foot, but you guys shut that down a bit by showing that his teammates aren't doing well in lineups with him in it. I'm usually one that thinks he plays well when the pressure if off, but this season I really was thinking it's due to the foot and he was still getting back from that, but maybe not. I don't know. I just wonder if the Spurs are going to give him yet another chance with the way it looks like he's finishing the season. It's starting to seem like the "fool's gold" thing people used to say around here years ago.

Maybe those were season long group stats? That wouldn’t reflect any improvements since the ASG.

[J_Paco]

This is Spurstalk. They will be demanding the Spurs trade Castle for a washed up player in two years because they secretly think that every player sucks except Tim Duncan. I'm sure they will say we should not super max Wemby.

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

I know some people will scream THE DATA (!), but I think Devin was recovering from the foot issue early on. That plus getting used to a role shift - not handling the ball as much as last season - and new teammates (Paul, Castle, Fox, etc) led to a very poor start.

Devin could be a Gary Harris - type player, shows early promise but never greatly improves beyond early showings. I think for his draft positioning he's been a solid player, but people were/are expecting (much) more and that probably won't be happening.

The big question is can the last season surge (finally?) transition to meaningful play throughout the following season?

Right now, he seems like a league - average guard (ala Harris in Denver) and Castle seems to have more upside at the same position. That could likely make Devin expendable if Castle's advanced stats (which aren't good, BTW) & perimeter scoring make a substantial leap.

All the piling on and constant dogging of him (and various other players) are just par for the course on ST. Once the team starts making meaningful improvements the folks here will still find someone (new 1st round picks, Vassell, Wesley, Sochan, Malaki, or some random player) to constantly complain about.

[J_Paco]

I like Devin a lot more than most people on ST (or at least the haters).

I like his three-level scoring ability and he has good size for a shooting guard (6'10" wingspan), but the needs of the team (wing defense, rebounding, perimeter scoring and rim protection) are hurting all the young guys on the team, IMO.

The team needs to really address adding a thumper inside (think Isaiah Stewart) that can rebound inside, protect the rim, etc.

And wing players like Naji Marshall that have size for his position, can defend, and hit the open three-pointer.

Lacking those necessary archetypes has stalled the team's overall progress, IMO.

[KobesAchilles]

I like Devin a lot more than most people on ST (or at least the haters).

I like his three-level scoring ability and he has good size for a shooting guard (6'10" wingspan), but the needs of the team (wing defense, rebounding, perimeter scoring and rim protection) are hurting all the young guys on the team, IMO.

The team needs to really address adding a thumper inside (think Isaiah Stewart) that can rebound inside, protect the rim, etc.

And wing players like Naji Marshall that have size for his position, can defend, and hit the open three-pointer.

Lacking those necessary archetypes has stalled the team's overall progress, IMO.
There are zero Devin haters. Nobody dislikes Devin as a person. I want him gone bc he doesn’t fit with our team. And it’s clear for everyone to see that he doesn’t fit with our team. You just said we need wing defense. Why? Bc he can’t defend. He has the size and the length to be our wing defender, but not the want to or the smarts to play defense. He is constantly out of position, zones out from guarding his man, and just an overall traffic cone. And he doesn’t fight for boards at all. I don’t need him grabbing a boatload of rebounds but I do need him in the fray boxing out his man and tipping the ball to people on our team.

And offensively he is just as dumb. He is just a “when I get the ball I shoot” type of player. Those players are a dime a dozen. This is why he struggles to be a 3rd option bc even they need to know how to play offense. Now ideally, he is the 4th option. And people here say he needs to learn how to adjust to be the 4th option. But what adjustments are there really other than he can’t jack up shots like crazy. His adjustment I guess would be efficiency? But if he is struggling with not shooting contested fade away 2s instead of wide open 3s then again where is his fit? It’s not like the Spurs are telling him he can’t shoot. Just that he needs to shoot 3s instead of contested 2s. He also sets lazy ass screens. Like it’s embarrassing. God I miss Danny Green. He’s the player we need on this team.

Everything about what you said about or needs is true. And literally by your own admission, what we don’t need is a player like Devin. There’s zero hate. His game doesn’t fit our team. And idk how you can argue otherwise.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Fwiw. Devin Vassell's EPM at the ASB was -1.8. He has improved to -0.9. His EPM is now at the 53rd percentile and Earned Wins %le us now 67. That's good progress. Even if overall his season has been underwhelming. But jumping from 39th percentile to 53 in a month suggests he has been trending in the right direction. On the other hand while Castle has improved on offense, he has regressed rather badly on defense acc. to EPM numbers.

[rankingtear]

I think we can carry Devin a couple more seasons until a trade opens up. Even if he is likely the next Tim Hardaway Jr. you are still getting a guy with enough skills that helps you figure out your offense like what he is doing as a starter in DET.

[spurraider21]

post ASB zach collins earned a 2/35 extension

[scott]

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

I know some people will scream THE DATA (!), but I think Devin was recovering from the foot issue early on. That plus getting used to a role shift - not handling the ball as much as last season - and new teammates (Paul, Castle, Fox, etc) led to a very poor start.

Devin could be a Gary Harris - type player, shows early promise but never greatly improves beyond early showings. I think for his draft positioning he's been a solid player, but people were/are expecting (much) more and that probably won't be happening.

The big question is can the last season surge (finally?) transition to meaningful play throughout the following season?

Right now, he seems like a league - average guard (ala Harris in Denver) and Castle seems to have more upside at the same position. That could likely make Devin expendable if Castle's advanced stats (which aren't good, BTW) & perimeter scoring make a substantial leap.

All the piling on and constant dogging of him (and various other players) are just par for the course on ST. Once the team starts making meaningful improvements the folks here will still find someone (new 1st round picks, Vassell, Wesley, Sochan, Malaki, or some random player) to constantly complain about.

Quite to the contrary, I don't expect or want him to be more because of his draft position. I want him to be a good 3rd/4th option. The problem is that he only looks good when he's put in position to be a primary option, and even then he's not so good that it warrants prioritizing him in that role. Basically, Devin isn't the best on the team at the thing he does best, and his skillset doesn't really fit any longer. It's not personal against Devin, it's just the situation.

As for it being "par for the course on ST" to complain about someone... why wouldn't fans of a team want to improve their weakest links? You can be a fan without having blind subservience to the product. I believe the Spurs are one of the NBA's three elite historical franchises. Lakers, Celtics, Spurs. We're the only one out of that group who does it organically and without just buying our way to titles. But to do that, the team should demand excellence throughout the organization. As a fan, I demand the same. Players like Branham will always be worthy of criticism and complaint, because they are not worthy of the shirt.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Devin's trade value is high now. Can we trade him for Cam Johnson straight up? I would do it if yes. If no, I can wait.

[Raven]

Yes, you do. If it was just that one metric showing Devin is a negative on the court, then you'd have an argument.
But he's a negative by every possible advanced metric.

Look at that on/off chart, I guess it's not his fault everyone has a worse rating when he's on the floor.
Maybe we should trade everyone and build around Devin.

what i am trying to explain to you and your friend, is that it is NOT a metric, it is a prediction.

[LeBowen]

what i am trying to explain to you and your friend, is that it is NOT a metric, it is a prediction.

No, you're not trying to explain shit, you're just trolling and acting dumb whenever you reach an impass.
You just try to change the subject and hope people will stop engaging you.

I told you to explain any other metric that has nothing to do with DARKO, they're not all prediction based.

[Chomag]

Spurs should trade him for Haliburton tbh. Oh wait...

[J_Paco]

Spurs should trade him for Haliburton tbh. Oh wait...

Haliburton is better than Devin, obviously, but drafting him would've made little sense when Derrick White, DeJounte Murray, Tre Jones, Patty Mills & DeMar DeRozan were all on the team at the time.

Point guard wasn't a big need and the Spurs (wrongfully) thought Devin was more swingman than SG.

And there were major concerns about Haliburton's funky jumper and porous defense lowering his ceiling as prospect. He proved one of those assumptions (shooting) wrong but the other one (poor defense) right.

[J_Paco]

There are zero Devin haters. Nobody dislikes Devin as a person. I want him gone bc he doesn’t fit with our team. And it’s clear for everyone to see that he doesn’t fit with our team. You just said we need wing defense. Why? Bc he can’t defend. He has the size and the length to be our wing defender, but not the want to or the smarts to play defense. He is constantly out of position, zones out from guarding his man, and just an overall traffic cone. And he doesn’t fight for boards at all. I don’t need him grabbing a boatload of rebounds but I do need him in the fray boxing out his man and tipping the ball to people on our team.

And offensively he is just as dumb. He is just a “when I get the ball I shoot” type of player. Those players are a dime a dozen. This is why he struggles to be a 3rd option bc even they need to know how to play offense. Now ideally, he is the 4th option. And people here say he needs to learn how to adjust to be the 4th option. But what adjustments are there really other than he can’t jack up shots like crazy. His adjustment I guess would be efficiency? But if he is struggling with not shooting contested fade away 2s instead of wide open 3s then again where is his fit? It’s not like the Spurs are telling him he can’t shoot. Just that he needs to shoot 3s instead of contested 2s. He also sets lazy ass screens. Like it’s embarrassing. God I miss Danny Green. He’s the player we need on this team.

Everything about what you said about or needs is true. And literally by your own admission, what we don’t need is a player like Devin. There’s zero hate. His game doesn’t fit our team. And idk how you can argue otherwise.

Well, when all you (don't mean you specifically, BTW) do is complain about a player ad nasuem, whether they have good, great or bad performance then that comes across as hating.

No one should like every player on a team roster. Hell, I've been on the 'please trade Zach Collins & Keldon Johnson' bandwagon for years. That doesn't mean I'm going to shit on Keldon - since Zach finally got traded - every chance I get even after good performance.


Quite to the contrary, I don't expect or want him to be more because of his draft position. I want him to be a good 3rd/4th option. The problem is that he only looks good when he's put in position to be a primary option, and even then he's not so good that it warrants prioritizing him in that role. Basically, Devin isn't the best on the team at the thing he does best, and his skillset doesn't really fit any longer. It's not personal against Devin, it's just the situation.

As for it being "par for the course on ST" to complain about someone... why wouldn't fans of a team want to improve their weakest links? You can be a fan without having blind subservience to the product. I believe the Spurs are one of the NBA's three elite historical franchises. Lakers, Celtics, Spurs. We're the only one out of that group who does it organically and without just buying our way to titles. But to do that, the team should demand excellence throughout the organization. As a fan, I demand the same. Players like Branham will always be worthy of criticism and complaint, because they are not worthy of the shirt.

It is par for the course cause the member names may change, but complaining about someone (even good performers) incessantly is the norm here.

I think it part of human psychology (or the human psyche) to notice or point out the bad or mistakes of others. I get that, but a nice balance here (and all throughout the internet, TBH) would be welcome.

[scott]

Well, when all you (don't mean you specifically, BTW) do is complain about a player ad nasuem, whether they have good, great or bad performance then that comes across as hating.

No one should like every player on a team roster. Hell, I've been on the 'please trade Zach Collins & Keldon Johnson' bandwagon for years. That doesn't mean I'm going to shit on Keldon - since Zach finally got traded - every chance I get even after good performance.



It is par for the course cause the member names may change, but complaining about someone (even good performers) incessantly is the norm here.

I think it part of human psychology (or the human psyche) to notice or point out the bad or mistakes of others. I get that, but a nice balance here (and all throughout the internet, TBH) would be welcome.

You start off with the premise that "all we do" is complain about a player ad nauseum. Posters like KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221) and myself post about a lot of things. Complaining about Devin is not "all we do" - and frankly I can't think of many posters who are one-track trolls in that regard. Maybe you are overly sensitive to (deserved) criticism of Devin? Or do you suggest we just stop talking about it and hope his flaws are magically cured? Or should we just accept that we're going to have a flawed roster and pretend like it doesn't exist? I'm not sure I even understand your complaint here, because it's based on a faulty premise (that there are people who "all they do" is complain about Devin, or any other player for that matter). I admit, however, I do have a decent number of people on ignore so maybe I'm missing it.

Complaining about performances that don't meet expectations are the norm here because we've been a bad team for quite too long, not just by our own standards but by league standards in general. Only the Hornets have a longer playoff drought than us. There is simply been more bad to point out than good. Even if that weren't the case, I do agree that we (humans) tend to focus more on the bad than the good, but that's because we are trying to get better, and doing so usually entails eliminating or limiting the bad things you do. "You're only as strong as your weakest link" is an expression for good reason. Debating what could be better is also where the largest variance of opinion comes in. This forum wouldn't have much discussion if it were just all of us posting "man, that Wemby is good right?" "yeah, he sure is!" There is simply not as much to discuss when we're talking about the positives. You're right though that some of that is just human nature. It's why talk radio and 24 hour "news" channels are so popular... humans feed on disagreement and outrage, unfortunately.

I look forward to when we're better and the general tone can be more positive, but even then people will still want to discuss the areas on the team that can be improved. This may be perceived as "complaining ad nauseum" but that is what fans do.

[Raven]

No, you're not trying to explain shit, you're just trolling and acting dumb whenever you reach an impass.
You just try to change the subject and hope people will stop engaging you.

I told you to explain any other metric that has nothing to do with DARKO, they're not all prediction based.

ok... which one do you want explained?

[LeBowen]

ok... which one do you want explained?

Let's start with everyone's rating being worse when Devin is on the floor with them, how do you explain that?

[Raven]

Let's start with everyone's rating being worse when Devin is on the floor with them, how do you explain that?

very simple: not normalised.

[LeBowen]

very simple: not normalised.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Alright, I'll play along.
Which stats show that Devin is a positive player for us?

[scott]

what i am trying to explain to you and your friend, is that it is NOT a metric, it is a prediction.

It's a projection... based on historical data... and it has the lowest root mean square error of any other projection model out there.

If you prefer something else, perhaps not a projection model, then you've been asked before to name it and we can look at Devin's through that lens. Your answer is the Raven Eye Test, which is fine. Most people you engage with here have decided your eyesight sucks.

[Raven]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Alright, I'll play along.
Which stats show that Devin is a positive player for us?

hmm let's play semantics a little, before that.. in order for me to use any stat to prove a point, we first need to agree on the exact point we want to make. My point on devin, is that since fox went down, he has been the one carrying the team with very good offence when the game was on the line, and solid D.

[Raven]

It's a projection... based on historical data... and it has the lowest root mean square error of any other projection model out there.

If you prefer something else, perhaps not a projection model, then you've been asked before to name it and we can look at Devin's through that lens. Your answer is the Raven Eye Test, which is fine. Most people you engage with here have decided your eyesight sucks.

well given that i've been shitting on his D for years before this year, you should probably concede that a projection based on historical data, isn't going to pick his improvements up, is it..

[scott]

Let's start with everyone's rating being worse when Devin is on the floor with them, how do you explain that?

Raven's response will be that the data is not "normalized" (he really means adjusted) to account for game circumstances, the rest of the lineup around him, the opposing lineup, what someone had for breakfast that day, whether or not Stephen A Smith is going to throw a punch at LeBron or not, etc.

So, in the absence of that, and despite the fact that Devin is 4th on the team in total minutes played, 3rd on the team in MPG, has started 80% of the games he's played in, and that most of his minutes come with the other top rotation players on our team... we are just supposed to assume that Devin has extremely bad luck and is only in the game when all of those things I listed above are working against his favor (but ONLY when he's in the game... other player's don't face these same circumstances before or after Devin is in the game).

What Raven would like is for us to adjust his on-off splits to reflect the extremely unfortunate luck that Devin has and... err... project what his theoretical on-off would be if we "normalized" the data for all of these various circumstances.

Raven also believes that individual stats are a good predictor for team success, so... that gives you a basis for their analytical prowess.

To be fair, if I operated under such birdbrained assumptions, I'd just rely on the eye test too.

[Raven]

Raven's response will be that the data is not "normalized" (he really means adjusted) to account for game circumstances, the rest of the lineup around him, the opposing lineup, what someone had for breakfast that day, whether or not Stephen A Smith is going to throw a punch at LeBron or not, etc.

So, in the absence of that, and despite the fact that Devin is 4th on the team in total minutes played, 3rd on the team in MPG, has started 80% of the games he's played in, and that most of his minutes come with the other top rotation players on our team... we are just supposed to assume that Devin has extremely bad luck and is only in the game when all of those things I listed above are working against his favor (but ONLY when he's in the game... other player's don't face these same circumstances before or after Devin is in the game).

What Raven would like is for us to adjust his on-off splits to reflect the extremely unfortunate luck that Devin has and... err... project what his theoretical on-off would be if we "normalized" the data for all of these various circumstances.

Raven also believes that individual stats are a good predictor for team success, so... that gives you a basis for their analytical prowess.

To be fair, if I operated under such birdbrained assumptions, I'd just rely on the eye test too.

i'd say that's a reasonably fair assessment. Especially if you consider our coach and his genius three pg lineups and sochan as center lineups.. i get that it is an excuse, but it is the truth.

[scott]

well given that i've been shitting on his D for years before this year, you should probably concede that a projection based on historical data, isn't going to pick his improvements up, is it..

I have no clue what you've been saying for years, and it's not really relevant to this discussion at all... unless your suggestion that DARKO incorporates your opinions into their model (spoiler alert: they don't)

The DARKO model weighs historical data by recency... so yes, it is going to pick up his improvements. His most recent game is going to be the most heavily weighted data point in the algorithm, and is going to be exponentially more heavily weighted than a game from a year ago (or from five years ago) since it's an exponential decay model.

Maybe you should read how the model works, so you don't sound like such an idiot: https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO/

[LeBowen]

he has been the one carrying the team

Carrying the team where exactly? Or should I say against who?
His hot streak coincides with the easiest stretch of the season.

Hornets, Pelicans, Sixers and Raptors are blatantly trying to lose.
We lost against the Lakers and Pistons and the only win against a good team was against Brunson-less Knicks...in which Devin scored 10 points.


with very good offence when the game was on the line

Hornets: L by 11, it was a 26 point game at the half.
Pelicans: W by 4, Devin was 3-9 in the second half with just 2 FTs.
Lakers: L by 16, Devin was 1-5 in the second half.
Knicks: W by 15, Devin shot 3-9 for 10 points.
Sixers: W by 8, Devin was 2-6 in the second half.
Raptors: W by 34, Devin's best game against a G-league team, was never on the line.
Pistons: L by 26, including the worst quarter of the season with Spurs shooting 2-17. I guess Devin carried it by scoring half of the team's FGs with an efficent 1-4 FG. Then he scored 13 points in 3rd quarter when Spurs which Spurs started at -26.

Please do explain when was his offense good with the game on the line.
Those are the games since Fox went down, he did jack shit when he had to step up.

$30M a year player shitting on Raptors 905, wow.

[scott]

i'd say that's a reasonably fair assessment. Especially if you consider our coach and his genius three pg lineups and sochan as center lineups.. i get that it is an excuse, but it is the truth.

This assumes that this bad coaching somehow only applies to Devin Vassell and that a large enough proportion of his minutes are played with these bad lineups to skew ALL of the stats.

One way to test against this is to look at the On-Off splits of Vassell's most frequent lineup (Paul-Castle-Vassell-Barnes-Wembanyama) for every player:

All 5 On: +8.42
Only Vassell Off: +7.87
Only Castle Off: +7.95
Only Wemby Off: -10.21
Only CP3 Off: -16.91
Only Barnes Off: -2.73

By this, Vassell and Castle are the least consequential members of that 5-man lineup. The team doesn't skip a beat when one of them comes off the floor, but completely falls apart when Wemby, Barnes or CP3 come off the floor. Castle's a rookie. Vassell's the highest paid player in Spurs history.

[scott]

Carrying the team where exactly? Or should I say against who?
His hot streak coincides with the easiest stretch of the season.



I think more importantly, his hot streak coincides with being handed the reigns as the primary scorer. That's the role he is best at... but he's not the best on the team at that role. You've got to have talent to even be decent at that role, and there is no denying Devin is talented. The question is whether Devin is an effective 3rd/4th option, and he's not really shown he can be. As others have stated, he's bad on defense and a ball stopper on offense. Two things we don't want or need.

This fits the general perception that he's best suited as a tank commander.

[Raven]

I have no clue what you've been saying for years, and it's not really relevant to this discussion at all... unless your suggestion that DARKO incorporates your opinions into their model (spoiler alert: they don't)

The DARKO model weighs historical data by recency... so yes, it is going to pick up his improvements. His most recent game is going to be the most heavily weighted data point in the algorithm, and is going to be exponentially more heavily weighted than a game from a year ago (or from five years ago) since it's an exponential decay model.

Maybe you should read how the model works, so you don't sound like such an idiot: https://apanalytics.shinyapps.io/DARKO/

i know how that works, thanks.

[J_Paco]

You start off with the premise that "all we do" is complain about a player ad nauseum. Posters like KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221) and myself post about a lot of things. Complaining about Devin is not "all we do" - and frankly I can't think of many posters who are one-track trolls in that regard. Maybe you are overly sensitive to (deserved) criticism of Devin? Or do you suggest we just stop talking about it and hope his flaws are magically cured? Or should we just accept that we're going to have a flawed roster and pretend like it doesn't exist? I'm not sure I even understand your complaint here, because it's based on a faulty premise (that there are people who "all they do" is complain about Devin, or any other player for that matter). I admit, however, I do have a decent number of people on ignore so maybe I'm missing it.

Complaining about performances that don't meet expectations are the norm here because we've been a bad team for quite too long, not just by our own standards but by league standards in general. Only the Hornets have a longer playoff drought than us. There is simply been more bad to point out than good. Even if that weren't the case, I do agree that we (humans) tend to focus more on the bad than the good, but that's because we are trying to get better, and doing so usually entails eliminating or limiting the bad things you do. "You're only as strong as your weakest link" is an expression for good reason. Debating what could be better is also where the largest variance of opinion comes in. This forum wouldn't have much discussion if it were just all of us posting "man, that Wemby is good right?" "yeah, he sure is!" There is simply not as much to discuss when we're talking about the positives. You're right though that some of that is just human nature. It's why talk radio and 24 hour "news" channels are so popular... humans feed on disagreement and outrage, unfortunately.

I look forward to when we're better and the general tone can be more positive, but even then people will still want to discuss the areas on the team that can be improved. This may be perceived as "complaining ad nauseum" but that is what fans do.

Lighten up, man.

I mentioned no names in my post but here you are go off on a tangent.

We both aren't going to agree and you'll feel how you feel about Devin (and whoever else), but I'm free to also say as I please.

And if people take your tone and constant harping as negativity (which it is) that's their or my right.

Have a good one.

[KobesAchilles]

I gotcha Jpaco. I think part of the reason why I do complain is twofold. One, my fav team isn’t winning :lol And I want them to win obviously. But they haven’t been for 7 seasons now and by that time I start to dissect why we aren’t winning. Bc by all accounts we should have been in the running of making the playoffs with Wemby this season. Before he got hurt. And we weren’t. So I’m looking at the team and just trying to figure out why. lack of talent? Well we have talent in comparison to other playoff teams like the Clippers or Rockets. We are too young? Well OKC is just as young and in first place by miles. Coaching? Well we have a hof coach. So why are we so bad?

And the answer I came up with isn’t those three things but rather we are just too misfit to be a winning team. Sochan is talented but offensively he doesn’t fit. Vassell is talented but offensively/defensively he doesn’t fit. I don’t mind KJ tbh. But I’m just looking to discard the players I feel don’t fit (coach too imo) and replace them with those that do fit. I understand a lot of people don’t agree with me in my stance, but that’s just how my brain is processing this year and going into next. I’m seen as kinda an idiot bc I just want a complete overhaul and I feel like that scares people and their thought process.

[LeBowen]

The team doesn't skip a beat when one of them comes off the floor, but completely falls apart when Wemby, Barnes or CP3 come off the floor. Castle's a rookie. Vassell's the highest paid player in Spurs history.

And it's actually easy to understand why, you don't need anything other than the eye test. (I'm not even joking.)

CP3 is washed, but makes everyone better by being an all-time great floor general even though he can't get to the rim anymore and is just a spot up shooter.
Barnes doesn't create for others, but has been our only elite shooter this season. He's not that great of a defender, but knows how to position himself and has legit wing size.
Devin doesn't make his teammates better unless he's hitting spot up shots he gets.

He doesn't create or get to the line enough. If his shot isn't falling, he has no value. The way he plays right now works only if he's consistently at ~40% from 3pt or if he's leading the bench unit. He's got no business being in the starting lineup.

[Raven]

Carrying the team where exactly? Or should I say against who?
His hot streak coincides with the easiest stretch of the season.

Hornets, Pelicans, Sixers and Raptors are blatantly trying to lose.
We lost against the Lakers and Pistons and the only win against a good team was against Brunson-less Knicks...in which Devin scored 10 points.



Hornets: L by 11, it was a 26 point game at the half.
Pelicans: W by 4, Devin was 3-9 in the second half with just 2 FTs.
Lakers: L by 16, Devin was 1-5 in the second half.
Knicks: W by 15, Devin shot 3-9 for 10 points.
Sixers: W by 8, Devin was 2-6 in the second half.
Raptors: W by 34, Devin's best game against a G-league team, was never on the line.
Pistons: L by 26, including the worst quarter of the season with Spurs shooting 2-17. I guess Devin carried it by scoring half of the team's FGs with an efficent 1-4 FG. Then he scored 13 points in 3rd quarter when Spurs which Spurs started at -26.

Please do explain when was his offense good with the game on the line.
Those are the games since Fox went down, he did jack shit when he had to step up.

$30M a year player shitting on Raptors 905, wow.

for the sake of brevity: last game vs the pistons -> game on the line, devin carries the team when everyone can't hit the ocean, with stephon going for a big fat 0, then we're 20 down and we make a run..

[scott]

Lighten up, man.

I mentioned no names in my post but here you are go off on a tangent.

We both aren't going to agree and you'll feel how you feel about Devin (and whoever else), but I'm free to also say as I please.

And if people take your tone and constant harping as negativity (which it is) that's their or my right.

Have a good one.

What tangent brother? I was responding directly to what you posted. This is a discussion board. I don't think I've ever suggested you aren't free to say as you please? You have your opinions, and I have mine and that's all good. I'm allowed to respond to your opinions and you're allowed to respond to mine.

You're absolutely allowed to take my posts as negativity... I'm also allowed to rebut that, which is my right.

Sounds like you're the one who needs to lighten up.

I hope we both have a good one, tbh.

[scott]

i know how that works, thanks.

Sure doesn't seem like it, since you didn't know how it would pick up his improvements.

[J_Paco]

I gotcha Jpaco. I think part of the reason why I do complain is twofold. One, my fav team isn’t winning :lol And I want them to win obviously. But they haven’t been for 7 seasons now and by that time I start to dissect why we aren’t winning. Bc by all accounts we should have been in the running of making the playoffs with Wemby this season. Before he got hurt. And we weren’t. So I’m looking at the team and just trying to figure out why. lack of talent? Well we have talent in comparison to other playoff teams like the Clippers or Rockets. We are too young? Well OKC is just as young and in first place by miles. Coaching? Well we have a hof coach. So why are we so bad?

And the answer I came up with isn’t those three things but rather we are just too misfit to be a winning team. Sochan is talented but offensively he doesn’t fit. Vassell is talented but offensively/defensively he doesn’t fit. I don’t mind KJ tbh. But I’m just looking to discard the players I feel don’t fit (coach too imo) and replace them with those that do fit. I understand a lot of people don’t agree with me in my stance, but that’s just how my brain is processing this year and going into next. I’m seen as kinda an idiot bc I just want a complete overhaul and I feel like that scares people and their thought process.

Yes, I get that.

We are - from my recollection - both Bills' fans and were likely around for the 4 SB losses & 17 year playoff 'drought.'

I know all about disappointment from players, coaches and teams (I'm also a Texas Rangers fan although I'm from Maryland, LOL), as I age and get older I try to keep this shit into perspective.

We are passive participants in sports as fans, so try to enjoy the journey good or bad cause it's all in fun.

I get getting down on players, but the over-the-top hyperbolic nature of internet sports fandom is pretty grating overall. These NBA guys are literally the .01% of their sport, but people act like all of them need to be perfect.

I'll let it go and let y'all have your peace and say what you want. No point in getting too worked up over any of these things and I just hope he figures things out here or elsewhere.

Peace.

[LeBowen]

for the sake of brevity: last game vs the pistons -> game on the line, devin carries the team when everyone can't hit the ocean, with stephon going for a big fat 0, then we're 20 down and we make a run..

Alright, you're going to go to full retard mode again.
How the fuck is he carrying the team with the game on the line if we were at 2-17 for a fucking 12 minute quarter and he shot 1-4 without ever getting to the line?
The game isn't on the line, it's fucking done at that point. We weren't coming back from -26 at the half.

He was the first option in that game and he did jack shit to keep the deficit under 20 at least.

Castle had the worst half of the season, but guess what?
He composed himself and scored 17 in the second half compared to Devin's 13 if you want to talk about making runs.

We shouldn't ever be comparing a rookie to a 5th year player, but do you know what's the biggest difference between Castle and Devin?
Castle has made more improvements over these past 5 months than Devin did over 5 years.

Castle is making a lot of mistakes, but he's mostly doing the right thing, just can't execute it properly because he's inexperienced and doesn't have the skillset yet.
On the other hand, Devin shits his pants whenever things aren't going right and just reverts to things he knows he shouldn't do like dribbling the ball for 10 seconds and taking an awful shot.
Devin is a front runner. Does well when the entire team is playing well, but disappears when things go badly. He's supposed to be the tough shot maker of this roster, getting buckets when everyone is struggling should be his job, not the other way around.

[Raven]

Sure doesn't seem like it, since you didn't know how it would pick up his improvements.

it's a weight. the next weight is always dependant on the previous ones.

[Raven]

Alright, you're going to go to full retard mode again.
How the fuck is he carrying the team with the game on the line if we were at 2-17 for a fucking 12 minute quarter and he shot 1-4 without ever getting to the line?
The game isn't on the line, it's fucking done at that point. We weren't coming back from -26 at the half.

He was the first option in that game and he did jack shit to keep the deficit under 20 at least.

Castle had the worst half of the season, but guess what?
He composed himself and scored 17 in the second half compared to Devin's 13 if you want to talk about making runs.

We shouldn't ever be comparing a rookie to a 5th year player, but do you know what's the biggest difference between Castle and Devin?
Castle has made more improvements over these past 5 months than Devin did over 5 years.

Castle is making a lot of mistakes, but he's mostly doing the right thing, just can't execute it properly because he's inexperienced and doesn't have the skillset yet.
On the other hand, Devin shits his pants whenever things aren't going right and just reverts to things he knows he shouldn't do like dribbling the ball for 10 seconds and taking an awful shot.
Devin is a front runner. Does well when the entire team is playing well, but disappears when things go badly. He's supposed to be the tough shot maker of this roster, getting buckets when everyone is struggling should be his job, not the other way around.

you'd be surprised, how much that happens.

[scott]

it's a weight. the next weight is always dependant on the previous ones.

You have zero clue what you are talking about :lol

[Raven]

You have zero clue what you are talking about :lol

it's literally my degree, but ok :lol

[scott]

it's literally my degree, but ok :lol

Your institution would be ashamed

The weight is dependent on nothing more than how many days it was from the date of the measurement, it's completely independent of the previous weights. Call your professors and apologize.

[ambchang]

i'd say that's a reasonably fair assessment. Especially if you consider our coach and his genius three pg lineups and sochan as center lineups.. i get that it is an excuse, but it is the truth.

I’m just getting confused. Why does it affect Vassell the most and not the rest of the roster? At any point in time there are four other players with him, where those four other players also play with other spurs players, playing the same scheme, yet Vassell is the one who is the only one who sticks out. If this is an extraordinarily unusual situation, the onus is actually on you to prove it, not the other way around.

[ambchang]

it's a weight. the next weight is always dependant on the previous ones.

What?

[Slippy]

DV can't win on here. If he played shite in march the same usual suspects would of gone out to town on him.

[baseline bum]

DV can't win on here. If he played shite in march the same usual suspects would of gone out to town on him.

So all of us who don't think Evin is a good fit (nor good player) should all start bandwagoning him now you're saying? Because he puts up numbers as the Main Character on a tanking team? Sorry man, he's a Poor Man's Jerry Stackhouse getting a ton of touches while the talent on the roster is in street clothes.

[spurraider21]

vecenie talking about the hypothetical Vassell + FRP for Trey Murphy stuff that's been brought up here (assuming Spurs moved into top 4). at 1:34:50 of the vid below. they think its a damn good question and pretty close. ultimately say they'd do so from the spurs perspective. from pelicans perspective, would do so in a situation where they are entering a complete rebuild/teardown and if their natural pick is also top 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FacJjGVIF0k&t=935s

[scott]

vecenie talking about the hypothetical Vassell + FRP for Trey Murphy stuff that's been brought up here (assuming Spurs moved into top 4). at 1:34:50 of the vid below. they think its a damn good question and pretty close. ultimately say they'd do so from the spurs perspective. from pelicans perspective, would do so in a situation where they are entering a complete rebuild/teardown and if their natural pick is also top 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FacJjGVIF0k&t=935s

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

[spurraider21]

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.
i think this is key. he's realistically the big chip we have if we wanted to make one move to really level up, both because i think around the league he is seen as a positive player, but also because his contract is such that it is easy to pair him with one of Keldon/Barnes to match basically whatever salary we want. is it a trade for Murphy between the lotto and the draft? is it a trade for Durant later in the offseason? or is it for some other trade for a big name 1-2 years from now? whatever it is, you want to get it right. his contract will only be more favorable from here on out. his 29 mil cap number this year is the highest its ever going to be.

personally, i wouldnt do vassell + 3/4 for Murphy. i'd agree that there would need to be some additional compensation coming back. vassell + 3 tells me your are getting a legit all star. murphy is on an all star trajectory, but he's not quite there.

[scott]

i think this is key. he's realistically the big chip we have if we wanted to make one move to really level up, both because i think around the league he is seen as a positive player, but also because his contract is such that it is easy to pair him with one of Keldon/Barnes to match basically whatever salary we want. is it a trade for Murphy between the lotto and the draft? is it a trade for Durant later in the offseason? or is it for some other trade for a big name 1-2 years from now? whatever it is, you want to get it right. his contract will only be more favorable from here on out. his 29 mil cap number this year is the highest its ever going to be.

personally, i wouldnt do vassell + 3/4 for Murphy. i'd agree that there would need to be some additional compensation coming back. vassell + 3 tells me your are getting a legit all star. murphy is on an all star trajectory, but he's not quite there.

I agree with everything you said, but I take a different approach. I don't need, or necessarily even want to trade DV for an all-star or someone on an all-star level contract. That's the appeal for TMIII for me. He'd be the most "high end" 4th option in the league, but unlike someone like Lauri (who would be a way overpriced 4th option or would relegate one of our guys, likely Castle, down to the 4th option). TMIII's contract is just right for the role I want him to play (Devin's is actually just right for it as well, it's just that he's proven that he can't play that role).

Yes, DV + Keldon/Barnes can match up with a max player... but I don't want another max player. All three of those guys have perfect contracts for the roles they fill on this team at this point in time (with Wemby and Castle on rookie deals), they just need to be upgraded to better players (actually, Barnes is fine)

[spurraider21]

I agree with everything you said, but I take a different approach. I don't need, or necessarily even want to trade DV for an all-star or someone on an all-star level contract. That's the appeal for TMIII for me. He'd be the most "high end" 4th option in the league, but unlike someone like Lauri (who would be a way overpriced 4th option or would relegate one of our guys, likely Castle, down to the 4th option). TMIII's contract is just right for the role I want him to play (Devin's is actually just right for it as well, it's just that he's proven that he can't play that role).

Yes, DV + Keldon/Barnes can match up with a max player... but I don't want another max player. All three of those guys have perfect contracts for the roles they fill on this team at this point in time (with Wemby and Castle on rookie deals), they just need to be upgraded to better players (actually, Barnes is fine)
right im not saying we SHOULD package devin + salary for all star. ive said im opposed to trading for Durant for those reasons. im just saying they dont have to make a move right now. for all they know, a better situation may manifest in 2 years.

but yes, moving devin while upgrading and not taking on more money (at least not significantly more) is worth considering, i just think #3 is rich for that. if we dont move up and wind up around pick 8-10, then thats the move i'd make probably

[Raven]

One thing he should work on, are his rotations with sochan, needs to be more vocal as it's a very obvious weakness for the team

[pad300]

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

With that in mind,

Santi Aldama (S&T) (he might just want out after his kerfuffle with Bane) for Devin Vassell

How much draft capital? Or maybe a 3 team trade?

[scott]

With that in mind,

Santi Aldama (S&T) (he might just want out after his kerfuffle with Bane) for Devin Vassell

How much draft capital? Or maybe a 3 team trade?

That's a great question. All the advanced metrics point to Aldama becoming a better player this season (and by a fairly wide margin, tbh) but Devin is0 much more "visible" and may be viewed as higher potential, even though they are the same age. Santi is a much more valuable archetype than Devin, but a lot of fans might view Devin as "better" because he's more of a scorer. If we've seen anything in the NBA this season, it's that GMs aren't really that much smarter than the average fan :lol. Just think of CasualSpursFan - they'd be up in arms if we traded Vassell and "only" got Santi back, even though it would be quite the coup for us.

I think you might be able to get away with this trade straight up, and both teams will feel like they won (though I'd argue the Spurs are clear winners). With that said, I don't know that Devin fits MEM very well unless they are looking to completely rebuild (which I doubt and they really shouldn't). They have enough guards and guard/wings on their roster already, to the point where Jake Laravia became a casualty of their roster crunch, so it probably needs to be a 3-team deal.

I'd like this move a lot.

[scott]

Double post

[baseline bum]

Yep, that's the trade I'd want if we moved up to 3 or 4. I think NOP might even need to send some kind of draft capital back. I don't think DV's value is as low as us "haters" make it out to be. TMIII is well ahead of him, but I don't think the gap is as big as the #3 pick.

Let's say the Spurs jump to #2 and push NOP to #5. Do you do #2 and Vassell for TMIII and #5?

[LeBowen]

Let's say the Spurs jump to #2 and push NOP to #5. Do you do #2 and Vassell for TMIII and #5?

I'd also include Jeremy if that was the trade, tbh.

[baseline bum]

I'd also include Jeremy if that was the trade, tbh.

I definitely wouldn't as there is an enormous dropoff between #2 and #5 in this draft.

[LeBowen]

I definitely wouldn't as there is an enormous dropoff between #2 and #5 in this draft.

It's the recency bias from last night's game, I'm done with Spurs wasting time on someone who doesn't understand the basic concepts of modern basketball.

More realistically, Spurs won't move up and let's say we get the #8 and #15 picks.
I'd offer NOLA those two picks, Devin and Jeremy for Murphy and Herb.
But I don't think they trade Murphy and go back into a full rebuild. Even if they get rid of Zion, Murphy is the player they'll keep unless someone overpays a lot.

The player I'd be looking out for is MPJ, he'll probably get moved if Denver fails in the playoffs.