Devin Vassell has to go asap.

[scott]

Let's say the Spurs jump to #2 and push NOP to #5. Do you do #2 and Vassell for TMIII and #5?

What are my other options for moving Vassell in that scenario? Can I move Devin for Aldama, for example?

If it's a hypothetical situation where literally no one else in the league will touch Devin... then yeah I think I might do that deal and then try to move #5 in another deal (reminder, my context is that I actually hate this draft outside of the Top 2). Maybe I take Kon there I guess if not?

My rationale is that as much as Devin doesn't fit now he DEFINITELY doesn't fit if you draft Harper. However, if there is any kind of reasonable value for Devin separate of this deal, then I take Harper at 2 and get what I can for Devin elsewhere.

[baseline bum]

It's the recency bias from last night's game, I'm done with Spurs wasting time on someone who doesn't understand the basic concepts of modern basketball.

More realistically, Spurs won't move up and let's say we get the #8 and #15 picks.
I'd offer NOLA those two picks, Devin and Jeremy for Murphy and Herb.
But I don't think they trade Murphy and go back into a full rebuild. Even if they get rid of Zion, Murphy is the player they'll keep unless someone overpays a lot.

The player I'd be looking out for is MPJ, he'll probably get moved if Denver fails in the playoffs.

NO would laugh in the Spurs faces at that offer.

[baseline bum]

What are my other options for moving Vassell in that scenario? Can I move Devin for Aldama, for example?

If it's a hypothetical situation where literally no one else in the league will touch Devin... then yeah I think I might do that deal and then try to move #5 in another deal (reminder, my context is that I actually hate this draft outside of the Top 2). Maybe I take Kon there I guess if not?

My rationale is that as much as Devin doesn't fit now he DEFINITELY doesn't fit if you draft Harper. However, if there is any kind of reasonable value for Devin separate of this deal, then I take Harper at 2 and get what I can for Devin elsewhere.

I think Devin definitely doesn't fit regardless of any other roster moves. But you could see Harper, Castle, and Fox working together? I'd see landing Harper as the gift from god to trade for a high end SF or PF.

[LeBowen]

I think Devin doesn't fit regardless of any other roster moves. But you could see Harper, Castle, and Fox working together? I'd see landing Harper as the gift from god to trade for a high end SF or PF.

I also wouldn't keep Harper unless they're certain he's got star potential.
If by some miracle he ends up with the Spurs, it would be easy enough to use him as a 6th man in his rookie year and then get rid of either Fox or Castle if Harper is better. NBA is a business after all, no hard feelings.

[exstatic]

I think Devin definitely doesn't fit regardless of any other roster moves. But you could see Harper, Castle, and Fox working together? I'd see landing Harper as the gift from god to trade for a high end SF or PF.

Castle is easily big and physical enough to play at the 3. The thing about trying to LoB in the second apron era is that cheap contracts are everything, and you surrender that by trading for pricy vets. If you think Harper has a decent chance to be a star, you keep him, and develop him within the Wemby/Fox structure. Then, you take the difference between his $10M salary and the pricy vet salary and go get a couple of 3&Ds.

[baseline bum]

Castle is easily big and physical enough to play at the 3. The thing about trying to LoB in the second apron era is that cheap contracts are everything, and you surrender that by trading for pricy vets. If you think Harper has a decent chance to be a star, you keep him, and develop him within the Wemby/Fox structure. Then, you take the difference between his $10M salary and the pricy vet salary and go get a couple of 3&Ds.

Murphy's on a great contract and fits the roster. Harper's probably only slightly better than Castle as a shooter so I don't see how those three play together. I know spurraider21 brought up the Kings still taking Haliburton when they already had Fox, but I'm not screwing De'Aaron over and trading him in a year or two after he forced the trade here. That would look so bad to other agents and could really hurt the Spurs in the long term. It made more sense when Haliburton was a #12 pick but with Harper a #2 pick GMs are lusting over right now feels like it would be an ideal time to trade him instead of wasting time developing him only to have to trade him anyways in a couple of years when he may or may not have the worth he has now in trade. I definitely don't see Harper as a SG either.

[baseline bum]

I also wouldn't keep Harper unless they're certain he's got star potential.
If by some miracle he ends up with the Spurs, it would be easy enough to use him as a 6th man in his rookie year and then get rid of either Fox or Castle if Harper is better. NBA is a business after all, no hard feelings.

You think that wouldn't completely poison the Spurs with other agents, much less Klutch, trading Fox after he forced his way here? I don't think the Spurs can afford to do De'Aaron like that and I hope they wouldn't even consider it.

[LeBowen]

You think that wouldn't completely poison the Spurs with other agents, much less Klutch, trading Fox after he forced his way here? I don't think the Spurs can afford to do De'Aaron like that and I hope they wouldn't even consider it.

I agree, but stranger things have happened.
If there's a trade that gets Fox to another contender maybe?
Idk why are we even discussing this, we're not moving up yet again unless CIA Pop managed to secure one final gift for the franchise. :lol

[scott]

I think Devin definitely doesn't fit regardless of any other roster moves. But you could see Harper, Castle, and Fox working together? I'd see landing Harper as the gift from god to trade for a high end SF or PF.

I think you have Harper or Castle as 6th man next season (you let them fight it out to see who starts between them), and then you Haliburton one of Fox/Castle/Harper depending on how the season plays out. Harper (along with Flagg obviously) are good enough to be in the "you draft them and figure it out later" category of prospect.

[poopbox]

I also wouldn't keep Harper unless they're certain he's got star potential.
If by some miracle he ends up with the Spurs, it would be easy enough to use him as a 6th man in his rookie year and then get rid of either Fox or Castle if Harper is better. NBA is a business after all, no hard feelings.

I mean assuming health we got Wemby (Star) and Fox (Star) with Castle having a pretty good rookie year (maybe future star)

At some point you just need some regular players to do regular things. Real life aint 2k you don't need or probably even want a legit "star" player taking 12 shots a game cause that's all he can get playing with 2 or 3 other star players.

[baseline bum]

I think you have Harper or Castle as 6th man next season (you let them fight it out to see who starts between them), and then you Haliburton one of Fox/Castle/Harper depending on how the season plays out. Harper (along with Flagg obviously) are good enough to be in the "you draft them and figure it out later" category of prospect.

Flagg is but I have my doubts whether Harper is when he couldn't even make the tourney. He'd have tremendous trade value on draft day though, and there's a decent shot it's the most value he ever has. Also don't see any way the Spurs can trade Fox for at least a couple years without for sure burning bridges with Klutch much less giving all the agents in the league reason to give pause to bringing their clients here. Feel like cashing in the asset immediately would be the best course of action if the Spurs lucked into that #2 pick, but I'm lower than most on Harper.

[scott]

Flagg is but I have my doubts whether Harper is when he couldn't even make the tourney. He'd have tremendous trade value on draft day though, and there's a decent shot it's the most value he ever has. Also don't see any way the Spurs can trade Fox for at least a couple years without for sure burning bridges with Klutch much less giving all the agents in the league reason to give pause to bringing their clients here. Feel like cashing in the asset immediately would be the best course of action if the Spurs lucked into that #2 pick, but I'm lower than most on Harper.

I won't claim to be a Harper expert. Only seen highlights and going off what other people (mostly Vecenie) say.

So, I'd approach your question this way if I'm the GM and I have a scouting department I trust feeding me evaluations:

If the scouting department tells me Harper is clearly the #2 pick, but there some significant question marks about him (similar to Scoot and Brandon Miller in their draft year), then I'll take the trade with NOP for TMIII (though I'm gonna try to expand it and get Herb for Sochan as well)
If the scouting department tells me this guy grades out higher than most #2 picks and would be #1 in most other years yada yada yada... I'm going the route I originally stated
I understand your hesitation with potentially trading Fox down the road, but I worry about that later (and I honestly feel you're probably trading Castle or Harper in the Haliburton-scenario anyway, not Fox).
I think it's definitely a fair point though that pre-draft is the peak of Harper's value and I don't think I can really argue that. So that's some extra food for thought.
I'm definitely sitting the scouts and coaching staff in a room and probing to see if there is any way we can make a lineup with all three of them work, though I'm skeptical it could. Harper and Castle both have great size for combo guards, but not great enough for me to want to force them into playing SF.

[exstatic]

I won't claim to be a Harper expert. Only seen highlights and going off what other people (mostly Vecenie) say.

So, I'd approach your question this way if I'm the GM and I have a scouting department I trust feeding me evaluations:

If the scouting department tells me Harper is clearly the #2 pick, but there some significant question marks about him (similar to Scoot and Brandon Miller in their draft year), then I'll take the trade with NOP for TMIII (though I'm gonna try to expand it and get Herb for Sochan as well)
If the scouting department tells me this guy grades out higher than most #2 picks and would be #1 in most other years yada yada yada... I'm going the route I originally stated
I understand your hesitation with potentially trading Fox down the road, but I worry about that later (and I honestly feel you're probably trading Castle or Harper in the Haliburton-scenario anyway, not Fox).
I think it's definitely a fair point though that pre-draft is the peak of Harper's value and I don't think I can really argue that. So that's some extra food for thought.
I'm definitely sitting the scouts and coaching staff in a room and probing to see if there is any way we can make a lineup with all three of them work, though I'm skeptical it could. Harper and Castle both have great size for combo guards, but not great enough for me to want to force them into playing SF.


I was watching the post game mingle and dap with Boston, and Steph was every bit the same size and build as Jaylen Brown, and he’s a pure SF.

[KobesAchilles]

I was watching the post game mingle and dap with Boston, and Steph was every bit the same size and build as Jaylen Brown, and he’s a pure SF.
Tatum is the SF

[scott]

I was watching the post game mingle and dap with Boston, and Steph was every bit the same size and build as Jaylen Brown, and he’s a pure SF.

That's an interesting counter point to think about (and also worth noting that Harper is listed as taller than Castle, though I'm not sure if that will turn out to be true).

I think it's also worth noting that the Celtics offense is completely different than ours though, and Jaylen is their worst shooter (not just of their starting 5, but really of their entire regular rotation excluding guys who don't take any 3s). We talk a lot about Jimmy, but Jaylen might be a decent comp for Steph. Jaylen's 32% this year is a career low though, he's a career 36% shooter and the rest of the team is all shooters so it's a little different. Let's say Wemby becomes a 40% shooter (which I actually don't think is that crazy), I still don't think we can get away with Fox/Harper/Castle at 1-3 when all of them shoot 34% or worse... but you bring up an interesting way to think about it.

[exstatic]

Tatum is the SF

Well, Pritchard and White are the SGs.

[exstatic]

That's an interesting counter point to think about (and also worth noting that Harper is listed as taller than Castle, though I'm not sure if that will turn out to be true).

I think it's also worth noting that the Celtics offense is completely different than ours though, and Jaylen is their worst shooter (not just of their starting 5, but really of their entire regular rotation excluding guys who don't take any 3s). We talk a lot about Jimmy, but Jaylen might be a decent comp for Steph. Jaylen's 32% this year is a career low though, he's a career 36% shooter and the rest of the team is all shooters so it's a little different. Let's say Wemby becomes a 40% shooter (which I actually don't think is that crazy), I still don't think we can get away with Fox/Harper/Castle at 1-3 when all of them shoot 34% or worse... but you bring up an interesting way to think about it.

Fox is all over the place, but his last pre-injury season was 37% on 7.8 attempts. He’s going to get a LOT of open looks playing off Wemby.

[scott]

Fox is all over the place, but his last pre-injury season was 37% on 7.8 attempts. He’s going to get a LOT of open looks playing off Wemby.

I'd love it if happened, but seems like more an aberration than his true shooting ability. I do think Fox will end up closer to 35-36% with us eventually, but even at 33-34%, he's not a guy teams will dare to shoot. But that still requires Castle and Harper become 36-38% shooters, and the 5th guy on the floor to be a knockdown shooter (Barnes?) for that to be a comparable model.

I like Jaylen as a long term Castle comp though, thanks for raising it. Don't think we're close enough to push Castle to the 3 though (Castle is also a much better ball handler and distributor than Jaylen, so that's where the comp breaks down a bit)

[exstatic]

I'd love it if happened, but seems like more an aberration than his true shooting ability. I do think Fox will end up closer to 35-36% with us eventually, but even at 33-34%, he's not a guy teams will dare to shoot. But that still requires Castle and Harper become 36-38% shooters, and the 5th guy on the floor to be a knockdown shooter (Barnes?) for that to be a comparable model.

I like Jaylen as a long term Castle comp though, thanks for raising it. Don't think we're close enough to push Castle to the 3 though (Castle is also a much better ball handler and distributor than Jaylen, so that's where the comp breaks down a bit)

I went and checked Bbref, and Jaylen hovered around 30% SF minutes recently, but played over 50% several seasons early on.

[scott]

I went and checked Bbref, and Jaylen hovered around 30% SF minutes recently, but played over 50% several seasons early on.

My apologies for the confusion, I was referring to 3P%, not time at the position

[exstatic]

My apologies for the confusion, I was referring to 3P%, not time at the position

I paradigm shifted with a clutch. I knew what you were referring to, but circled back to the question of SF viability for Steph, based on a comparison with Jaylen, giving Jaylens history at the position.

[scott]

I paradigm shifted with a clutch. I knew what you were referring to, but circled back to the question of SF viability for Steph, based on a comparison with Jaylen, giving Jaylens history at the position.

Gotcha. Whether you call it a 3-guard lineup or one of Castle or Harper at SF... I think it's interesting and if I'm hypothetical GM, I'm asking the coaches, analytics and scouting teams what they think... but I'm guessing that the 3-point shooting will be the problem. If all three of those guys could get to 35% though (which I don't think is anywhere outside of the realm of possibility) then I think there might be something there, especially considering they'll probably only really all play together to start and end the game, other than that they'd be staggered. You'd need someone at the 4 who can shoot like Barnes but rebound and play pretty decent D (Santi?)

[rascal]

Murphy's on a great contract and fits the roster. Harper's probably only slightly better than Castle as a shooter so I don't see how those three play together. I know spurraider21 brought up the Kings still taking Haliburton when they already had Fox, but I'm not screwing De'Aaron over and trading him in a year or two after he forced the trade here. That would look so bad to other agents and could really hurt the Spurs in the long term. It made more sense when Haliburton was a #12 pick but with Harper a #2 pick GMs are lusting over right now feels like it would be an ideal time to trade him instead of wasting time developing him only to have to trade him anyways in a couple of years when he may or may not have the worth he has now in trade. I definitely don't see Harper as a SG either.

Harper could be better than Fox and Castle. You draft him and keep him. You'll have to add more size at the 4 when all three are on the floor. Team should be moving away from thinking Sochan is the solution at the 4.

Wemby can more than make up on the defensive end if Castle develops enough to be a starter at the 3.

[CGD]

Watching Orlando last night, I think Vassell is actually someone they could use.

[spursistan]

https://x.com/matissa15/status/1909614839397228663

[scott]

Devin made a Top 10 list!!!

Funny, this list includes a guy the Spurs were rumored to be after at the deadline (Claxton), a guy some posters wanted (Lavine) and another guy other posters currently want (Durant).

[scott]

But the biggest LOL of course is the idea that Patrick Williams should be paying the Bulls for allowing him to be in the NBA :lol

[CorrectCrusader]

Dude is extremely low IQ and not consistent enough offensively to override that fact.

[ambchang]

https://x.com/matissa15/status/1909614839397228663

I would have to check the formulas to see how you can get values below the minimum, or even negative. I can’t see Jaylen brown being only an $18.8M player in todays league.

[scott]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/spurs-devin-vassell-ready-reduced-role-next-20279268.php

EN has a story today about Devin being willing to accept a more supporting role.

That's a good first step, though.

This, paired with the Keldon article, though - sounds like the Spurs have told their media their plans for next year and now it's being slowly fed to us. That plan: run it back.

[exstatic]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/spurs-devin-vassell-ready-reduced-role-next-20279268.php

EN has a story today about Devin being willing to accept a more supporting role.

That's a good first step, though.

This, paired with the Keldon article, though - sounds like the Spurs have told their media their plans for next year and now it's being slowly fed to us. That plan: run it back.

I think for the most part that’s probably true, but based on Bassey’s inability to stay healthy and Mamu sprinting to grab the Toronto game ball and giving a heartfelt thank you speech, I have a hard time seeing either coming back, probably McLaugjlin,too.

[Dejounte]

I think for the most part that’s probably true, but based on Bassey’s inability to stay healthy and Mamu sprinting to grab the Toronto game ball and giving a heartfelt thank you speech, I have a hard time seeing either coming back, probably McLaugjlin,too.

Mamu also tweeted “thank you for everything, SA”. You’re right, I think it’s the end for these guys. With no one behind Wemby, makes it feel likely they’ll draft a big.

[scott]

I think for the most part that’s probably true, but based on Bassey’s inability to stay healthy and Mamu sprinting to grab the Toronto game ball and giving a heartfelt thank you speech, I have a hard time seeing either coming back, probably McLaugjlin,too.

I agree... but Bassey, Mamu and JMac are all relatively inconsequential members of the rotation (ranking 15th, 14th, and 19th in MPG for the team this season), so I don't really consider them coming back or not as part of "running it back". CP3 not returning as a starter will be the biggest change (even if he comes back as a backup, that will impact the YOY continuity stats).

If I had to guess today, I would say CP3 (with fewer minutes, down to as few as zero next year) and whatever FRPs we make (1 or 2) because the only significant changes to our Top 10 players in minutes next season.

[scott]

I think for the most part that’s probably true, but based on Bassey’s inability to stay healthy and Mamu sprinting to grab the Toronto game ball and giving a heartfelt thank you speech, I have a hard time seeing either coming back, probably McLaugjlin,too.

I agree... but Bassey, Mamu and JMac are all relatively inconsequential members of the rotation (ranking 15th, 14th, and 19th in MPG for the team this season), so I don't really consider them coming back or not as part of "running it back". CP3 not returning as a starter will be the biggest change (even if he comes back as a backup, that will impact the YOY continuity stats).

If I had to guess today, I would say CP3 (with fewer minutes, down to as few as zero next year) and whatever FRPs we make (1 or 2) because the only significant changes to our Top 10 players in minutes next season.

[exstatic]

I think they will make plans, but react to opportunities that may prevent themselves. I think they won’t go into next season with Wemby as the only big with any experience. I expect a trade or FA signing to at least partly fill the gap. We’ve talked about all the expiring contracts, but we have HB, Malaki,and Blake as 2026 ending contracts,plus $8M in likely cap space.

[SpursBills]

I think opening day starting lineup next year as it looks right now based on these articles is going to be Fox-Vassell-Barnes-Sochan-Wembanyama. With Mitch as head coach.

[Dejounte]

I think opening day starting lineup next year as it looks right now based on these articles is going to be Fox-Vassell-Barnes-Sochan-Wembanyama. With Mitch as head coach.

Even with all the continuity that happens according to scott ‘s posts, there’s one thing that’s consistent: at least one member of the starting lineup changes year to year. So I highly doubt that will be the lineup.

[Dejounte]

My bad, I just realized Paul was our starter all year. Smh. For some reason that lineup you shared felt like the lineup we ran after Fox was traded here.

[exstatic]

Don’t get twisted. Castle will be starting.

[scott]

I think they will make plans, but react to opportunities that may prevent themselves. I think they won’t go into next season with Wemby as the only big with any experience. I expect a trade or FA signing to at least partly fill the gap. We’ve talked about all the expiring contracts, but we have HB, Malaki,and Blake as 2026 ending contracts,plus $8M in likely cap space.

You are right, that slipped my mind, so change in CP3 plus rookies plus backup big will be the main changes to the continuity stats, most likely. And I also agree they'll take advantage of any unforeseen scenarios that pop up (like getting paid to take HB)

[spursistan]

scott mentioned in the PO thread folks refusing to trade Vassell for Herro once upon time :lol. It is pretty sad to see how much this guy has been left in the dust by players of his draft class/age group (Herro, Halliburton, Austin Reaves).. All three have improved steadily and are going deep in the playoffs while he is yet to sniff a play-in game in 3 years falling off defensively along the way of thinking he is a Kobe prototype..

[exstatic]

scott mentioned in the PO thread folks refusing to trade Vassell for Herro once upon time :lol. It is pretty sad to see how much this guy has been left in the dust by players of his draft class/age group (Herro, Halliburton, Austin Reaves).. All three have improved steadily and are going deep in the playoffs while he is yet to sniff a play-in game in 3 years falling off defensively along the way of thinking he is a Kobe prototype..

Our last play in game was in 2022, vs. Pels, and Devin was literally the only one to show up. Our All Star Dejounte Murray shit the bed.

[Ice009]

Our last play in game was in 2022, vs. Pels, and Devin was literally the only one to show up. Our All Star Dejounte Murray shit the bed.

Yep. I've mentioned this a few times the past year and it's the main reason I hadn't given up completely with Devin. Dejounte was out all of April with an illness, though, so I won't trash him too much as I think that play-in game was his first game back if I remember right?

Still, almost everyone else shit the bed and Devin looked locked in a poised that game. It was also on the road. Really, that game is what makes me not completely turn on Devin. I put a lot of weight in games that are playoff level over any regular season game.

[poopbox]

Yep. I've mentioned this a few times the past year and it's the main reason I hadn't given up completely with Devin. Dejounte was out all of April with an illness, though, so I won't trash him too much as I think that play-in game was his first game back if I remember right?

Still, almost everyone else shit the bed and Devin looked locked in a poised that game. It was also on the road. Really, that game is what makes me not completely turn on Devin. I put a lot of weight in games that are playoff level over any regular season game.

So because Devin didn't shit the bed in a play in game 3 years ago you are still like "I want to believe" :lol

[Ice009]

So because Devin didn't shit the bed in a play in game 3 years ago you are still like "I want to believe" :lol


Who said I was all-in on Devin? I didn't say that (I said it's the reason I haven't completely given up on him). I'm down to about 15% on wanting to keep him due to seeing that he can perform in a playoff like game. I still want him traded if they can get a good deal as he doesn't seem to be a great fit as the 3rd or 4th option if he's not playing defense and doing little things as well.

The only guys on the current team I trust in the playoffs are De'Aaron, Steph, Victor and only just squeaking in there, Devin. I'm just guessing with Victor and Steph, but that is because of what I've seen them do in the bigger regular season games. I thought De'Aaron did well in the Kings playoff series against the Warriors, so I don't have much more to go on than that for him. I don't know about HB as I don't recall how he's done in the playoffs.

[spursistan]

scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) mentioned in the PO thread folks refusing to trade Vassell for Herro once upon time :lol. It is pretty sad to see how much this guy has been left in the dust by players of his draft class/age group (Herro, Halliburton, Austin Reaves).. All three have improved steadily and are going deep in the playoffs while he is yet to sniff a play-in game in 3 years falling off defensively along the way of thinking he is a Kobe prototype..

Add this one to the list

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1915624223650845101

[R. DeMurre]

Jalen was in the Sochan draft, not the Vassell draft.

[RC_Drunkford]

well if we draft Harper he has to go. Let him play SF until the deadline to redeem some value, then trade him

[ambchang]

If we can salary dump him with some second round picks do it.

With Harper in tow should also look into trading sochan for a true 3&d guy.

Harper castle and fox can potentially work even though the spacing would be awkward, that would be a parade of drive and kicks. Wemby will be the designated sniper from outside which is still not my preferred role for him but again, seems PATFO made up their mind on that.

A rotation of champaigne and another shooter can open up the offence. If that shooter can play some small ball Center that would be even better. I guess John Collins, who I wasn’t high on previously, would be a good fit now.

Keldon can still come off the bench and be that battering ram to the paint. If he can get his shot back then even better but I’m not holding out hope. Put in some rotation minutes for Mamu, bassey and Wesley and we have a decent 10 man rotation.

[BackHome]

It will be very interesting in the beginning of the season who gets minutes at certain positions. At someone mentioned you are not going to bench a second round pick Harden if that is our pick will get his 25 to 30 minutes a game. So starting lineup may look like;

Fox/Harper, Castle
Harper, Castle
Castle, Vassell, Champagne
Barnes, Sochan/?
Wemby/?/?

The first thing I want to find out is how good our bad the Fox, Castle, and Harper lineup is? Based on that outcome will determine what trades I might make during or after season. Going into this draft I don’t see any of our bigs besides Wemby staying so definitely need to pick one up in the draft and maybe a free agent signing.

[Death In June]

Is there any above average PF help realistically available with a Vassell trade if we throw in 1 first round pick this summer?

[LeBowen]

Is there any above average PF help realistically available with a Vassell trade if we throw in 1 first round pick this summer?

John Collins has a $26M option for the next season, he's my #1 target. As good of a fit as it gets with the age and asking price taken into account.
If he opts in, I'd offer either Devin straight up, Keldon+Jeremy or Keldon+#14.
If he opts out, I'd offer a 80/4 deal, we can clear the cap space.

PJ Washington would also be a good target, he's the odd man out in Dallas with them landing Flagg.

Naz Reid and Aldama aren't realistic targets. There's not much else if we're talking high end starters.

[NASpurs]

All this dumbass needed to do was become a catch and shoot player while focusing on defense instead of thinking he's Kobe reincarnated. Enjoy your next team buddy.

[KobesAchilles]

It’s not lost on me that Devin drafted his own replacement with his shitty play :lol

Our main question: How do we get Giannis without giving up Harper? Castle, Vassell and Barnes and 4 future FRPs?

Wemby, Giannis, Fox, Champ, and Harper. Sign LaRavia as a bench big. Give MLE to Bostons back up big. And then draft the best shooter available at 14. Probably none of this is feasible but it doesn’t hurt to ask :lol

[cd98]

Until the Spurs get a 3, Vassell will be on this team.

[CGD]

Where are we on Kuminga these days?

Feels like Dev for Kuminga (S&T) is on the table is we want it. On paper would seem to fit a need at the wing.

[Chomag]

No reason not try to trade him and sochan now

[LeBowen]

Let's try and find potential suitors that would see Devin as a positive asset.

CLE, BOS, IND, NYK, CHI, ATL, TOR, PHI, CHO, WAS - no.
MIL - Portis and Connaughton expirings? They'd surely take him.
DET - Maybe if Ivey doesn't recover? Unlikely.
ORL - They desperately need shooters, but salary matching would be tough because they have so many smaller contracts.
MIA - I don't think they're interested, but I'd consider a Wiggins/Devin swap to get years off that contract if anything.
BRK if we salary dump him.

OKC, HOU, LAL, DEN, LAC, MIN, GSW, MEM, SAC, DAL, PHO, POR, NOP - no.
UTA - Maybe in a deal for John Collins?

We're not getting rid of him, tbh. :lol

[mo7888]

Let's try and find potential suitors that would see Devin as a positive asset.

CLE, BOS, IND, NYK, CHI, ATL, TOR, PHI, CHO, WAS - no.
MIL - Portis and Connaughton expirings? They'd surely take him.
DET - Maybe if Ivey doesn't recover? Unlikely.
ORL - They desperately need shooters, but salary matching would be tough because they have so many smaller contracts.
MIA - I don't think they're interested, but I'd consider a Wiggins/Devin swap to get years off that contract if anything.
BRK if we salary dump him.

OKC, HOU, LAL, DEN, LAC, MIN, GSW, MEM, SAC, DAL, PHO, POR, NOP - no.
UTA - Maybe in a deal for John Collins?

We're not getting rid of him, tbh. :lol

I think Philly is in play if we want it..

[stnick2261]

Let's try and find potential suitors that would see Devin as a positive asset.

CLE, BOS, IND, NYK, CHI, ATL, TOR, PHI, CHO, WAS - no.
MIL - Portis and Connaughton expirings? They'd surely take him.
DET - Maybe if Ivey doesn't recover? Unlikely.
ORL - They desperately need shooters, but salary matching would be tough because they have so many smaller contracts.
MIA - I don't think they're interested, but I'd consider a Wiggins/Devin swap to get years off that contract if anything.
BRK if we salary dump him.

OKC, HOU, LAL, DEN, LAC, MIN, GSW, MEM, SAC, DAL, PHO, POR, NOP - no.
UTA - Maybe in a deal for John Collins?

We're not getting rid of him, tbh. :lol

Orlando has pick #16. If there was some way to move Vassell AND get McNeeley AND Fleming (if they drop)… I’d be willing to toss in a few more resources.

Brooklyn also has a ton of 1st round picks. If they are interested in Vassell, I’d be interested in some of that.

[CGD]

Let's try and find potential suitors that would see Devin as a positive asset.

CLE, BOS, IND, NYK, CHI, ATL, TOR, PHI, CHO, WAS - no.
MIL - Portis and Connaughton expirings? They'd surely take him.
DET - Maybe if Ivey doesn't recover? Unlikely.
ORL - They desperately need shooters, but salary matching would be tough because they have so many smaller contracts.
MIA - I don't think they're interested, but I'd consider a Wiggins/Devin swap to get years off that contract if anything.
BRK if we salary dump him.

OKC, HOU, LAL, DEN, LAC, MIN, GSW, MEM, SAC, DAL, PHO, POR, NOP - no.
UTA - Maybe in a deal for John Collins?

We're not getting rid of him, tbh. :lol

My top contender is Orlando. He’d be a great fit with Suggs and provides the shooting they desperately need.

KCP + Mo + a future pick would help the Spurs build up some of the depth they need.

[CGD]

Orlando has pick #16. If there was some way to move Vassell AND get McNeeley AND Fleming (if they drop)… I’d be willing to toss in a few more resources.

Brooklyn also has a ton of 1st round picks. If they are interested in Vassell, I’d be interested in some of that.

If Giannis goes to the Nets, I definitely think some of the Spurs’ young guys can help them round out a roster around him.

[Dverde]

John Collins has a $26M option for the next season, he's my #1 target. As good of a fit as it gets with the age and asking price taken into account.
If he opts in, I'd offer either Devin straight up, Keldon+Jeremy or Keldon+#14.
If he opts out, I'd offer a 80/4 deal, we can clear the cap space.

PJ Washington would also be a good target, he's the odd man out in Dallas with them landing Flagg.

Naz Reid and Aldama aren't realistic targets. There's not much else if we're talking high end starters.

We really talking about this scrub John Collins again. Giving up #14 in a good draft for this guy :lol

[LeBowen]

My top contender is Orlando. He’d be a great fit with Suggs and provides the shooting they desperately need.

KCP + Mo + a future pick would help the Spurs build up some of the depth they need.

KCP was horrible this season and has two more years after this one, $21M.

If they want Devin, there would have to be a third team involved, imo.
Isaac and WCJ make too much money for the value they add and their contracts are too long.
Cole Anthony and Anthony Black are (subpar) point guards.
Bitadze seems like a solid fit, but has character issues, Spurs would never take him.
Mo Wagner is recovering from an ACL tear.
Gary Harris is on an expiring deal that's not too bad.
Da Silva and Jett Howard aren't better than Champagnie.

[LeBowen]

We really talking about this scrub John Collins again. Giving up #14 in a good draft for this guy :lol

John Collins is a career 16/8 player, 36% career 3pt shooter (38% with the Jazz), can play both PF/C and is turning 28 this summer.
Please find a better player of the same archetype with reasonable asking price and extension demands.

Both Keldon and Devin have next to no value, which pick we use depends on if Spurs like anyone available at #14. Could use another FRP, you get the point.
We can't expect to compete with a bunch of kids.

[rankingtear]

He would go out in a Durant trade.

[Dverde]

John Collins is a career 16/8 player, 36% career 3pt shooter (38% with the Jazz), can play both PF/C and is turning 28 this summer.
Please find a better player of the same archetype with reasonable asking price and extension demands.

Both Keldon and Devin have next to no value, which pick we use depends on if Spurs like anyone available at #14. Could use another FRP, you get the point.
We can't expect to compete with a bunch of kids.

Collins with that terrible contract has no value imo. You want to throw a couple second rounders in to make the medicine go down, sure, but no way with#14. Fox is 27 and Barnes is in his thirties. Old man CP3 might also be coming back.

[LeBowen]

Collins with that terrible contract has no value imo. You want to throw a couple second rounders in to make the medicine go down, sure, but no way with#14. Fox is 27 and Barnes is in his thirties. Old man CP3 might also be coming back.

Which terrible contract? It's a player option, $26M. We don't even know if he'll take it.
The same money Devin will get the next season. Swap two of them and Spurs are a better team, no question.

He also probably knows he's not getting the same money on his next contract, I wouldn't offer him more than 80/4.

CP3 coming back? Might aswell disband the franchise.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

John Collins has a $26M option for the next season, he's my #1 target. As good of a fit as it gets with the age and asking price taken into account.
If he opts in, I'd offer either Devin straight up, Keldon+Jeremy or Keldon+#14.
If he opts out, I'd offer a 80/4 deal, we can clear the cap space.

PJ Washington would also be a good target, he's the odd man out in Dallas with them landing Flagg.

Naz Reid and Aldama aren't realistic targets. There's not much else if we're talking high end starters.


John Collins will opt out if we tell him we would give him $80/4. This is the most realistic way to get him.

[LeBowen]

John Collins will opt out if we tell him we would give him $80/4. This is the most realistic way to get him.

We'd have to clear some cap space.
Currently projected at ~$9M below the line, with #2 pick getting $10M in his first year and #14 getting $4M.

[RC_Drunkford]

A sign and trade for John Collins should be possible by giving up 2 second round picks. There‘s no way Ainge is getting a first round pick for him

[Seventyniner]

John Collins will opt out if we tell him we would give him $80/4. This is the most realistic way to get him.

The deadline for Collins to opt out is June 29, which is before free agency starts. The Spurs can't make him that kind of promise without tampering.

[Dverde]

I’d let some other team pay Collins 20M a year. Let Spurstalker continue the dream

[taps]

This is the first thread I opened after getting the lotto news.

[Sugus]

Fuck yes. What a beautiful side effect from getting the #2 pick.

Almost as great as getting the pick itself. Begone Devin.

[timtonymanu]

I get the takes about people not wanting to get rid of a lot of assets for Giannis but I really can't believe some morons on reddit are taking it too far to the point of saying they wouldn't trade away Sochan, Vassell, or Keldon if it meant getting Giannis.

I swear a lot of those idiots only started following the team after 2014 and believe the Spurs never got rid of core players during the Duncan era. :lol

[BacktoBasics]

I get the takes about people not wanting to get rid of a lot of assets for Giannis but I really can't believe some morons on reddit are taking it too far to the point of saying they wouldn't trade away Sochan, Vassell, or Keldon if it meant getting Giannis.

I swear a lot of those idiots only started following the team after 2014 and believe the Spurs never got rid of core players during the Duncan era. :lol

The only ones I’ve seen that mention those players typically have 4 firsts attached to it plus one of Castle or the number 2 pick.

3+ picks in addition to the number 2 or Castle doesn’t interest me that much.

He’ll be 31 later this year. So you might get 4 years out of him and hopefully that’s injury free.

If he were 26 or 27 years old I’d probably feel differently.

[scott]

Devin probably woke up, found out we got the number 2 pick, and is now salivating over the idea of Dylan Harper passing him the ball for some more contested long 2s.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The deadline for Collins to opt out is June 29, which is before free agency starts. The Spurs can't make him that kind of promise without tampering.

Wemby or Fox can be the messenger.

[exstatic]

Where are we on Kuminga these days?

Feels like Dev for Kuminga (S&T) is on the table is we want it. On paper would seem to fit a need at the wing.

Kuminga sucks, and is the prototypical Ignite dumbass.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

We'd have to clear some cap space.
Currently projected at ~$9M below the line, with #2 pick getting $10M in his first year and #14 getting $4M.

Trade Keldon, Braham, Wesley for room. I'm sure a bunch of teams will be happy to take their salary. Keldon may even earn us a FRP.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

A sign and trade for John Collins should be possible by giving up 2 second round picks. There‘s no way Ainge is getting a first round pick for him

This is about right.

[dn0774]

Where are we on Kuminga these days?

Feels like Dev for Kuminga (S&T) is on the table is we want it. On paper would seem to fit a need at the wing.

We have Kuminga at home. (Sochan)

[scott]

Kuminga isn't bad and has shown some grit in this MIN series... but he's the exact opposite of what we need from our forwards at this point.

[Seventyniner]

Devin probably woke up, found out we got the number 2 pick, and is now salivating over the idea of Dylan Harper passing him the ball for some more contested long 2s.

When did this become a meme? 10% of Vassell's shots this season were long twos, the same percentage as Wemby and CP3. Fox was the highest on the team at 13%.

Unless you consider a 10-16 foot shot a long two? 17.5% of Vassell's shots were from there, which is higher than it should be. CP3 at 19%, Fox at 14%, and Wemby at 10% round out the top 4.

[scott]

When did this become a meme? 10% of Vassell's shots this season were long twos, the same percentage as Wemby and CP3. Fox was the highest on the team at 13%.

Unless you consider a 10-16 foot shot a long two? 17.5% of Vassell's shots were from there, which is higher than it should be. CP3 at 19%, Fox at 14%, and Wemby at 10% round out the top 4.

I don't know, but I just think it's hilarious. The contested part is what's closer to the truth, of course. I've never actually thought of Devin as a Vinny del Negro disciple.

My favorite Devin meme, of course is the idea of him looking at a scenario that's not ideal for the team and whispering to himself "this is my time to shine"

[Seventyniner]

I don't know, but I just think it's hilarious. The contested part is what's closer to the truth, of course. I've never actually thought of Devin as a Vinny del Negro disciple.

My favorite Devin meme, of course is the idea of him looking at a scenario that's not ideal for the team and whispering to himself "this is my time to shine"

You're right, his shot distance doesn't show the true difficulty because it doesn't include how contested the shots were.

Just for shits and giggles, take a guess at Del Negro's career % of shots he took from 16 feet to the 3 point line (long twos). I guessed before I looked it up and I wasn't close.

[scott]

You're right, his shot distance doesn't show the true difficulty because it doesn't include how contested the shots were.

Just for shits and giggles, take a guess at Del Negro's career % of shots he took from 16 feet to the 3 point line (long twos). I guessed before I looked it up and I wasn't close.

My guess would be probably somewhere in the teens, because my guess is that most of Vinny's shots were lay ups or closer range jumpers. But I would guess that his long 2 shot % is probably fairly close to his 3p shot %.

[Seventyniner]

My guess would be probably somewhere in the teens, because my guess is that most of Vinny's shots were lay ups or closer range jumpers. But I would guess that his long 2 shot % is probably fairly close to his 3p shot %.

Swallow whatever you're drinking first so you don't spit it out.



Ready?





42.5% of Del Negro's career field goal attempts were long twos (16 feet to just inside the three point line, including his patented foot-on-the-line longest of long twos). Only 11.8% of his career field goal attempts were threes, and only 9.9% were at the rim.

In 97-98, 49.3% of his shots were long twos (only 34.8% in 96-97!) and he managed to top that in 00-01 at 51.7%.

I'm cringing just typing these numbers out.

[Jordan Jackson]

Haliburton was pretty good tonight. Granted it’s the east and it’s a complete dumpster fire. But do you see a scenario where Vassell drags a team to an EC Finals?

Hopefully they can find somewhere Vassell can thrive because I’m not sure it’s with the Spurs.

[poopbox]

How much money can we bet that on media day after the spurs draft harper Devin says some shit like "it don't matter who I am on the floor with I know my role is to be a scorer so that is what I am going to do" or something similar :lol

[scott]

Swallow whatever you're drinking first so you don't spit it out.



Ready?





42.5% of Del Negro's career field goal attempts were long twos (16 feet to just inside the three point line, including his patented foot-on-the-line longest of long twos). Only 11.8% of his career field goal attempts were threes, and only 9.9% were at the rim.

In 97-98, 49.3% of his shots were long twos (only 34.8% in 96-97!) and he managed to top that in 00-01 at 51.7%.

I'm cringing just typing these numbers out.

That's incredible! What a trip down memory lane.

[SpursFan86]

Kuminga isn't bad and has shown some grit in this MIN series... but he's the exact opposite of what we need from our forwards at this point.

The blueprint is painfully obvious if/when we add Harper. With Fox/Castle/Harper as our guard rotation and Wemby at center, all we really need (assuming that core pans out the way we expect of course):

1) Couple of 3&D archetype wings
2) PF who can rebound and shoot spot-up 3s
3) Backup center who can rebound and be a solid rim protector

Getting those pieces isn’t as easy as it sounds but in terms of the types of players we need…seems fairly straight forward.

[Extra Stout]

Which teams are looking for what Vassell provides? And for $30 million? When I look up the kinds of role players I’d want at the forward spots, their salaries keep running in the $15-$20 million range.

[DPG21920]

Which teams are looking for what Vassell provides? And for $30 million? When I look up the kinds of role players I’d want at the forward spots, their salaries keep running in the $15-$20 million range.

Brooklyn makes a lot of sense for Dev IMO - they need salaries, can absorb him without sending any salaries back and they need talent, young players as they are still rebuilding.

[Dejounte]

The blueprint is painfully obvious if/when we add Harper. With Fox/Castle/Harper as our guard rotation and Wemby at center, all we really need (assuming that core pans out the way we expect of course):

1) Couple of 3&D archetype wings
2) PF who can rebound and shoot spot-up 3s
3) Backup center who can rebound and be a solid rim protector

Getting those pieces isn’t as easy as it sounds but in terms of the types of players we need…seems fairly straight forward.

Between Julian & Keldon (and maybe Ingram and Riley Minix behind them), I think we’re set at wing. We really don’t need someone who will potentially be overpaid or command a lot of money when their contract is up. I think we have to be cheap at wing, and then spend more for 2 and 3. I don’t think we’ll find anyone as loyal as Keldon and provide what he brings to the locker room. With his love for the Spurs, it may convince our bigger names to stay loyal too. Relationships are everything, IMO. If Keldon is the glue who holds everything together you keep him.

[sfernald]

I don't know, but I just think it's hilarious. The contested part is what's closer to the truth, of course. I've never actually thought of Devin as a Vinny del Negro disciple.

My favorite Devin meme, of course is the idea of him looking at a scenario that's not ideal for the team and whispering to himself "this is my time to shine"

My favorite part of Devin’s game is looking off open shooters which he does continuously.

[Guru of Nothing]

Y'all, I'm not saying I like this idea, but is there any good that could come from converting Devin's salary (and all those remaining years) into the expiring $31M contract of Julius Randle?

Would certainly need a third team involved because Minnesota's primary interest is freeing up money to sign Naz (I'm assuming as much). The FOs are well-acquainted and if we can serve our interests while helping them too, then maybe this is the direction we go (low friction).

Randle, Barnes, and Sochan filling the PF-ish spot for a year might work while the maestro develops Wemby and the three amigos.

[ambchang]

Randle would actually fit wemby well with his mid centric bully ball game. I don’t mind having him at $15-$20 million a year, but I’m not sure what that third team would be. Maybe nets is the only one but neither the wolves or us have anything they’d want, unless they actually want vassell.

If that’s the case:
Spurs get Randle
Nets get Vassell
Wolves get a bunch of second round picks or a highly protected first.

If jazz is interested they can get a young player and a bunch of SRPs.

Both jazz and nets have to put in salaries to make the trade work.

[rascal]

Randle would actually fit wemby well with his mid centric bully ball game. I don’t mind having him at $15-$20 million a year, but I’m not sure what that third team would be. Maybe nets is the only one but neither the wolves or us have anything they’d want, unless they actually want vassell.

If that’s the case:
Spurs get Randle
Nets get Vassell
Wolves get a bunch of second round picks or a highly protected first.

If jazz is interested they can get a young player and a bunch of SRPs.

Both jazz and nets have to put in salaries to make the trade work.

Why would the Wolves get rid of Randle for 2nd round picks or a highly protected first? They just got Randle for KAT in the big trade with NY last year.

You have to make trade scenarios that make sense for all the teams not just the Spurs.

[exstatic]

Why would the Wolves get rid of Randle for 2nd round picks or a highly protected first? They just got Randle for KAT in the big trade with NY last year.

You have to make trade scenarios that make sense for all the teams not just the Spurs.

Wolves trying to avoid second apron repeater penalties. The player they’ve been trying to get for a while was DiVincenzo. They don’t give a rats ass about Randle. If he opts out or is traded into cap room,it solves their #1 problem,and allows them to keep players like NAW and Naz without complications.

[ambchang]

Why would the Wolves get rid of Randle for 2nd round picks or a highly protected first? They just got Randle for KAT in the big trade with NY last year.

You have to make trade scenarios that make sense for all the teams not just the Spurs.

Because Randle is a disappointment and wolves have to clear a lot of salary. They got rid of KAT for randle because Ronald’s is easier to get rid of. At least that’s how I read it.

Randle doesn’t have much value on the market is how I see it.

[scott]

Randle would actually fit wemby well with his mid centric bully ball game. I don’t mind having him at $15-$20 million a year, but I’m not sure what that third team would be. Maybe nets is the only one but neither the wolves or us have anything they’d want, unless they actually want vassell.

If that’s the case:
Spurs get Randle
Nets get Vassell
Wolves get a bunch of second round picks or a highly protected first.

If jazz is interested they can get a young player and a bunch of SRPs.

Both jazz and nets have to put in salaries to make the trade work.

tbh feels like Randle is playing himself into an extension with MIN and a tough decision on keeping Naz.

[scott]

Because Randle is a disappointment and wolves have to clear a lot of salary. They got rid of KAT for randle because Ronald’s is easier to get rid of. At least that’s how I read it.

Randle doesn’t have much value on the market is how I see it.

I don't think Randle has been a disappointment at all

[exstatic]

tbh feels like Randle is playing himself into an extension with MIN and a tough decision on keeping Naz.

Playoff beer goggles…

[rascal]

Because Randle is a disappointment and wolves have to clear a lot of salary. They got rid of KAT for randle because Ronald’s is easier to get rid of. At least that’s how I read it.

Randle doesn’t have much value on the market is how I see it.

Randle averaged 25.2 points on 53.3 percent shooting from the field, with 6.6 rebounds, 7.4 assists in 37.6 minutes against the Warriors. He's been key to Minn this season and hasn't been a disappointment.

[RC_Drunkford]

Randle fits Minnie‘s offense better than KAT. They have trouble scoring and his postgame bails them out a lot.

[tbdog]

TWolves are back in the WCF. They not trading Randal, who outplayed Green, for fucking seconds. My god. Reid will go if they have to make the decision. They can stay in the second apron anyway. They have the end of 2 seasons time to get under to stop their pick getting frozen.

[Spursfanfromafar]

With Harper being drafted being nearly a given, Castle and Fox to most likely start and Sochan to play good minutes, the Spurs need as many complementary 3 point shooters as they can. Of the three in the rotation as of now - Vassell, Barnes and Keldon.. Vassell is the only one who offers a semblance of decent D and good 3 pt shooting. Barnes was good at spot up shooting from the corners in particular but had among the worst defensive rating in the league. Keldon offers neither - his 3pt shot fell off a cliff and he is still in bottom 15% in defense in the league.

If the Spurs can trade all three for a PF star who can rebound and shoot threes and then get one more rotation player ( someone said KD plus Royce O'Neale).. then that trade can be considered. But short of that..I would want the Spurs to parlay Keldon (for sure) and Barnes if need be to get a serviceable 3pt or rebounding threat.

I would think Keldon for Cam Johnson and Barnes plus Branham for Porzingis (provided tests reveal that his recent upper respiratory sickness isnt too serious) with the 14th as a dangle is the way to go.

[scott]

Playoff beer goggles…

Yeah, sucks to be fooled by… the guy who delivers in the playoffs?

[LakerHater]

& whoever decided to give him that contract!

[Ice009]

WTF, I put most weight into how a player plays in the playoffs.

I remember back in the day, doesn't matter how you played in the regular season (pre 2006 or so), if you didn't perform in the playoffs, Pop would give you one more chance and then you're gone.

I don't understand how it's considered negative that Randle is performing in the playoffs? That's a great thing for the Wolves. Why would you get rid of someone that is performing in the playoffs? Even if he didn't have a great regular season, it's still worth more that he's playing better in the playoffs. At the very least, it's earned him another season to see if he can back it up.

[exstatic]

Yeah, sucks to be fooled by… the guy who delivers in the playoffs?

One time? Against LeBron and The Ancient Ones and Steph and The Other Ancient Ones? I guess he’s good at beating up on seniors, anyway.

He’s no Playoff Jimmy. One decent playoff run shouldn’t cause you to mortgage your future.

[LeBowen]

One time? Against LeBron and The Ancient Ones and Steph and The Other Ancient Ones? I guess he’s good at beating up on seniors, anyway.

He’s no Playoff Jimmy. One decent playoff run shouldn’t cause you to mortgage your future.

You're just weird at times.
One of those people who'd rather dig themselves deeper than admit they were wrong.

Randle isn't a superstar, but he's a very good player who happens to be a great fit next to Edwards.

[dbestpro]

I would trade Vassel who is a shooter for another shooter whose shot actually goes in.

[Sugus]

I would trade Vassel who is a shooter for another shooter whose shot actually goes in.

:lol tbh

[CGD]

Brooklyn makes a lot of sense for Dev IMO - they need salaries, can absorb him without sending any salaries back and they need talent, young players as they are still rebuilding.

Especially if they make a bid for Giannis. Dev, Cam, Giannis begins to look like a competent roster they can build around/upgrade.

[CGD]

Playoff beer goggles…

Better than pre-season beer goggles.

In any case, I don’t want Randle nor do I think MIN lets him go.

[ambchang]

Randle averaged 25.2 points on 53.3 percent shooting from the field, with 6.6 rebounds, 7.4 assists in 37.6 minutes against the Warriors. He's been key to Minn this season and hasn't been a disappointment.

If you want to focus on one single series you are welcomed to do so, but there is no doubt Randle didn’t do well the entire season and the wolves disappointed this year, with Randle getting most of that blame.

The wolves got real lucky in the playoffs, first facing a lakers team who’s +/- is more like an 8th seed team but somehow miraculously got the third seed, then faced a warriors team that wasn’t all that great to begin with, struggled against it and then have curry go down.

Wolves have to choose between randle, Reid and NAW. Of the three Randle should be the last priority.

[Ice009]

You are right, bit of a prisoner of the moment situation, so I'd be a bit iffy on a long-term contract if I was Minnesota. First, I'd like to see how he does the rest of these playoffs. If he picks up his player option, I'd give him another shot if I was Minnesota, but if he underperforms next season, then either trade him or let him go, but like I said, his performance so far has earned him at least another shot. Even though he's played against the Lakers and a Curry-less Warriors, he has still raised his game in the playoffs.

[scott]

Especially if they make a bid for Giannis. Dev, Cam, Giannis begins to look like a competent roster they can build around/upgrade.

Does BKN already have their own version of Devin Vassell in Cam Thomas?

[mo7888]

Does BKN already have their own version of Devin Vassell in Cam Thomas?

Cam is more of an energizer off the bench...or at least that's what he's better suited for.

[exstatic]

You're just weird at times.
One of those people who'd rather dig themselves deeper than admit they were wrong.

Randle isn't a superstar, but he's a very good player who happens to be a great fit next to Edwards.

You do understand second apron repeater penalties, right? Is Randle, and frankly this TWolves team, good enough to send a FRP to the end of the round, and lock it from tradeability? You guys are all in love with a guy who’s really just Antoine Carr.

[LeBowen]

If you want to focus on one single series you are welcomed to do so, but there is no doubt Randle didn’t do well the entire season and the wolves disappointed this year, with Randle getting most of that blame.

The wolves got real lucky in the playoffs, first facing a lakers team who’s +/- is more like an 8th seed team but somehow miraculously got the third seed, then faced a warriors team that wasn’t all that great to begin with, struggled against it and then have curry go down.

Wolves have to choose between randle, Reid and NAW. Of the three Randle should be the last priority.

Have you actually followed their season?
They started off slowly, had an adjustment period.
23-22 at the start of the season.
6 game winning streak in January, then Randle got injured.
5-8 without him.
8 winning streak after he returned, 14 winning streak when he played.
9-4 to end the season.

Saying that NAW should be the priority is just dumb and invalidates the entire post.
Naz and Randle both have arguments over eachother, but NAW is just a bench player.

Guess who was starting while Randle was out? That's right, Naz Reid.
Started a total of 17 games this season.
5 games with 50%+ FG.
1 with 45-50% FG.
4 with 40-45% FG.
7 below 40% FG.

Naz Reid is a great 6th man, but most of his advantage comes from backup bigs getting ran off the floor due to his range and the ability to attack closeouts.
He's not that good as a starter.
20 to 25 million a year is fair value for him.


You do understand second apron repeater penalties, right? Is Randle, and frankly this TWolves team, good enough to send a FRP to the end of the round, and lock it from tradeability? You guys are all in love with a guy who’s really just Antoine Carr.

I was the one who's been saying they can't keep everyone even before the KAT trade and even before Dillingham draft deal.
I'm just saying they'll have to think really hard about who should be the priority.
Naz isn't worth more than 20 to 25 million a year. Randle 25 to 30.
Getting rid of Gobert and replacing him with a rim protector with half the salary would be ideal.

[mo7888]

You do understand second apron repeater penalties, right? Is Randle, and frankly this TWolves team, good enough to send a FRP to the end of the round, and lock it from tradeability? You guys are all in love with a guy who’s really just Antoine Carr.

Are they over the 2nd tier if they let Naz walk?

[exstatic]

Have you actually followed their season?
They started off slowly, had an adjustment period.
23-22 at the start of the season.
6 game winning streak in January, then Randle got injured.
5-8 without him.
8 winning streak after he returned, 14 winning streak when he played.
9-4 to end the season.

Saying that NAW should be the priority is just dumb and invalidates the entire post.
Naz and Randle both have arguments over eachother, but NAW is just a bench player.

Guess who was starting while Randle was out? That's right, Naz Reid.
Started a total of 17 games this season.
5 games with 50%+ FG.
1 with 45-50% FG.
4 with 40-45% FG.
7 below 40% FG.

Naz Reid is a great 6th man, but most of his advantage comes from backup bigs getting ran off the floor due to his range and the ability to attack closeouts.
He's not that good as a starter.
20 to 25 million a year is fair value for him.



I was the one who's been saying they can't keep everyone even before the KAT trade and even before Dillingham draft deal.
I'm just saying they'll have to think really hard about who should be the priority.
Naz isn't worth more than 20 to 25 million a year. Randle 25 to 30.
Getting rid of Gobert and replacing him with a rim protector with half the salary would be ideal.

Naz is a player for the modern era. He defends, and is switchable. If you feel he can’t start, go get a cheaper starting option than Julius Randle. He reminds me of Bonzi Wells, in that you could look at his stat sheet and figure out when his contract years were. He coasted the rest of the time.

[LeBowen]

Naz is a player for the modern era.

True.


He defends, and is switchable.

Questionable.
He can do it for some possessions, but doesn't have the motor to play switch heavy defense for long stretches.


If you feel he can’t start, go get a cheaper starting option than Julius Randle.

I don't think anyone will offer Randle more than $30M he's on now and he's definitely been worth that money this season.


He reminds me of Bonzi Wells, in that you could look at his stat sheet and figure out when his contract years were. He coasted the rest of the time.

I don't take playing for garbage organizations against players.
Lakers and Pelicans were both garbage, Knicks were also a shitshow when he joined and he kept them relevant.
Yeah, he was horrible in '23 playoffs, but he was a legit 1A-1B with Brunson last season until his injury.

Been very good again this season.
As I said many times, I really hate the NBA fan culture of every player either being 10/10 or 0/10.
Noone is solid or good, everyone is either amazing or garbage.

[scott]

Cam is more of an energizer off the bench...or at least that's what he's better suited for.

Can say the same about Devin, tbh... while they are very different players, they are actually quite similar in a lot of ways

[scott]

Are they over the 2nd tier if they let Naz walk?

They can keep them both and stay under the 2nd apron if one of them (if Randle opts out) will resign starting at $25MM/yr instead of $30MM.

[mo7888]

They can keep them both and stay under the 2nd apron if one of them (if Randle opts out) will resign starting at $25MM/yr instead of $30MM.

I'm guessing they couldn't use their MLE if they keep both? And do they want Naz and Randle on longterm deals? I doubt it. They may be forced to make a choice there.

[rascal]

If you want to focus on one single series you are welcomed to do so, but there is no doubt Randle didn’t do well the entire season and the wolves disappointed this year, with Randle getting most of that blame.

The wolves got real lucky in the playoffs, first facing a lakers team who’s +/- is more like an 8th seed team but somehow miraculously got the third seed, then faced a warriors team that wasn’t all that great to begin with, struggled against it and then have curry go down.

Wolves have to choose between randle, Reid and NAW. Of the three Randle should be the last priority.

How was Randle a disappointment? His regular season numbers were similar to his career numbers.

Regular Season (2024-2025)

32.3 Min/gm, 18.7 pts/gm, 48.5 FG%, 34.4 fg/3%, 7.1 R, 4.7 A, 0.7 steals, 0.2 blocks

Career (2014-2024)

32.0 Min/gm, 19.0 pts/gm, 47.1 FG%, 33.3 fg/3%, 9.1 R, 3.8 A, 0.7 steals, 0.4 blocks

[scott]

I'm guessing they couldn't use their MLE if they keep both? And do they want Naz and Randle on longterm deals? I doubt it. They may be forced to make a choice there.

I'm hoping that Randle continues to have a really strong playoffs to force them into having to choose one or the other... there is a pathway for them to retain both for the long term, but that pathway is relatively narrow. All depends on one of them starting at $25MM like I said... I hoping BKN has an affinity for Naz and makes him a very strong offer to be their tank commander going forward

[mo7888]

I'm hoping that Randle continues to have a really strong playoffs to force them into having to choose one or the other... there is a pathway for them to retain both for the long term, but that pathway is relatively narrow. All depends on one of them starting at $25MM like I said... I hoping BKN has an affinity for Naz and makes him a very strong offer to be their tank commander going forward

Agreed. I hope for the same..

[RC_Drunkford]

The T-Wolves problem is offense. Because Conley is old and can't get in the lane and Edwards is not a PG. They have the same issue we had with CP3 at PG before we aquired Fox. There's nobody being able to suck in the defense and create easy open looks except Edwards when he decides to drive and he doesn't do that enough.

Randle actually helps bail them out with his post ups, which is why he's a good fit for this team and I don't even like Randle.

[scott]

MIN picks 17... I think we'll likely see them do some kind of deal where they package that pick and Conley for a younger PG on a rookie deal or relatively cheap deal. Something like Ayo from CHI or Cason Wallace (though OKC doesn't need any more picks... but maybe a third team gets involved whereby Conley and 17 get rerouted for future draft capital so OKC just keeps reloading the war chest and they make room for Topic and Ajay Mitchell to take over for Wallace as the backup PG)

[ambchang]

Have you actually followed their season?
They started off slowly, had an adjustment period.
23-22 at the start of the season.
6 game winning streak in January, then Randle got injured.
5-8 without him.
8 winning streak after he returned, 14 winning streak when he played.
9-4 to end the season.

Saying that NAW should be the priority is just dumb and invalidates the entire post.
Naz and Randle both have arguments over eachother, but NAW is just a bench player.

Guess who was starting while Randle was out? That's right, Naz Reid.
Started a total of 17 games this season.
5 games with 50%+ FG.
1 with 45-50% FG.
4 with 40-45% FG.
7 below 40% FG.

Naz Reid is a great 6th man, but most of his advantage comes from backup bigs getting ran off the floor due to his range and the ability to attack closeouts.
He's not that good as a starter.
20 to 25 million a year is fair value for him.



I was the one who's been saying they can't keep everyone even before the KAT trade and even before Dillingham draft deal.
I'm just saying they'll have to think really hard about who should be the priority.
Naz isn't worth more than 20 to 25 million a year. Randle 25 to 30.
Getting rid of Gobert and replacing him with a rim protector with half the salary would be ideal.

Could’ve read it wrong and admit I haven’t been fully following the wolves the entire year. What I recalled was that the talks were largely wolves lost the trade and randle wasn’t a good fit with them.

Naw is much cheaper, younger, and his perimeter defence is great. There has been countless rumours that the wolves are prioritizing Reid and NAW over randle so I’m not sure why it’s such a shocking take. Randle is known to give up as much as it gives you.

You make it sound like the wolves were some world beating team, but they ended up as the 6th seed with a record of 49-33.

It depends if the wolves wanted to avoid the 2nd apron quicker and how they see the current team. It makes little sense for them to trade KAT away because of the tax then do nothing and keep paying the tax afterwards.

[ambchang]

How was Randle a disappointment? His regular season numbers were similar to his career numbers.

Regular Season (2024-2025)

32.3 Min/gm, 18.7 pts/gm, 48.5 FG%, 34.4 fg/3%, 7.1 R, 4.7 A, 0.7 steals, 0.2 blocks

Career (2014-2024)

32.0 Min/gm, 19.0 pts/gm, 47.1 FG%, 33.3 fg/3%, 9.1 R, 3.8 A, 0.7 steals, 0.4 blocks

Are you serious? You are coming his prime year against his career average? I’m here for honest disagreements on points but this is straight out dishonest.

His ppg is the worst since year four. Rebounds is fhe worst ever (unless you count his rookie year where he played two games). Assists is the 2nd worst of the last 5 years. There is no question statistics were worse than his time with the Knicks.

It’s like saying a sprinter didn’t slow down because his last 10m is the same average speed is the same has his first 90m as if they don’t need time to accerlatebb

[dn0774]

Are you serious? You are coming his prime year against his career average? I’m here for honest disagreements on points but this is straight out dishonest.

His ppg is the worst since year four. Rebounds is fhe worst ever (unless you count his rookie year where he played two games). Assists is the 2nd worst of the last 5 years. There is no question statistics were worse than his time with the Knicks.

It’s like saying a sprinter didn’t slow down because his last 10m is the same average speed is the same has his first 90m as if they don’t need time to accerlatebb

Damn, tough critic lol :rollin

I am the furthest thing from a Randle guy but I admit he actually had a better season than I expected (my expectations were low), especially taking into account team performance and his personal playoff performance thus far. He was never going to have the same featured role as he did for the Knicks (which his usage% reflects) so his counting stats took a dive as expected. But he actually had one of his better scoring efficiency seasons to date. The Wolves since March have been disgustingly elite and that just happened to coincide with Randle coming back from injury. Was it all him? Nah, I don't believe that but he certainly played his part.

Beating the Curry-less Warriors isn't impressive to me, but he did kind of feast on the Lakers and you could tell the Lakers didn't account for him at all in their game plan and it burned them.

[scott]

Are you serious? You are coming his prime year against his career average? I’m here for honest disagreements on points but this is straight out dishonest.

His ppg is the worst since year four. Rebounds is fhe worst ever (unless you count his rookie year where he played two games). Assists is the 2nd worst of the last 5 years. There is no question statistics were worse than his time with the Knicks.

It’s like saying a sprinter didn’t slow down because his last 10m is the same average speed is the same has his first 90m as if they don’t need time to accerlatebb

Kind of ironic to criticize comparing this years average versus career averages as disingenuous, and then turn around and point out his decline in raw counting stats while not taking into account the reduction in USG based on role.

You are right that at the time of the trade, it was widely viewed that the Wolves lost that trade... but after the season played out, the finished 2 games behind the team that "won" the trade, while playing in a tougher conference (and still only 3 games out of the 2 seed in the west) and are back in the WCF with Randle as their second option (and they certainly were better team when he was available versus when he was out).

I just find it hard to believe that MIN is feeling much regret about the trade or wishing they could rid themselves of Randle... but we'd probably have to ask Wolves fans.

I don't think the Wolves are going to go out and max Randle or anything... but I definitely think they'd like to retain him (along with Naz). The talk earlier in the year was that he'd definitely opt in, because no one else would give him $31MM. But if he likes MIN, I don't think it's crazy to think he might opt out to sign something like a 4/100 as his last big NBA deal, which would allow MIN to sign Naz and stay under the second apron (which I believe is the bigger consideration than the tax).

The tough thing is going to be if they are forced to choose between Randle and Naz (and I hope they are forced into that, for the sake of the competitive landscape in the west)... if I were them I'd probably choose Naz, but it's not like Randle is some bum who needs to be vanquished ASAP.

[ambchang]

Kind of ironic to criticize comparing this years average versus career averages as disingenuous, and then turn around and point out his decline in raw counting stats while not taking into account the reduction in USG based on role.

You are right that at the time of the trade, it was widely viewed that the Wolves lost that trade... but after the season played out, the finished 2 games behind the team that "won" the trade, while playing in a tougher conference (and still only 3 games out of the 2 seed in the west) and are back in the WCF with Randle as their second option (and they certainly were better team when he was available versus when he was out).

I just find it hard to believe that MIN is feeling much regret about the trade or wishing they could rid themselves of Randle... but we'd probably have to ask Wolves fans.

I don't think the Wolves are going to go out and max Randle or anything... but I definitely think they'd like to retain him (along with Naz). The talk earlier in the year was that he'd definitely opt in, because no one else would give him $31MM. But if he likes MIN, I don't think it's crazy to think he might opt out to sign something like a 4/100 as his last big NBA deal, which would allow MIN to sign Naz and stay under the second apron (which I believe is the bigger consideration than the tax).

The tough thing is going to be if they are forced to choose between Randle and Naz (and I hope they are forced into that, for the sake of the competitive landscape in the west)... if I were them I'd probably choose Naz, but it's not like Randle is some bum who needs to be vanquished ASAP.

Having raw counting stats average and taking into a count usage rate are sort of far apart. When rascal looked up counting stats, i can’t see anyway he’d (assuming the user is a he as I’m assuming most of us are) can take the effort to calculate the previous 8 years of stats to compare to this years stats without seeing that his stats plummeted from his Knicks years. He couldve pulled the usage rates and I’d be fine with the argument because that would be an honest argument. What he did was straight out dishonest.

In terms of results, randle played well in the playoffs based on matchups, but I’m just thinking what the wolves would do with their salary situation. There are many situations for them to make things work and yes, I’m looking at this is as a Boolean situation where they either keep or get rid of him. If they want to get rid of one of Randle, naz or NAW, I’d think it would be Randle, then eventually see how they can rid of Gobert and just rebuild around ant.

To your point though, if they can fit everyone under a team friendly deal, and they believe this team can contend, then they may run it for a few years. I think they are a pretender though.

[exstatic]

Having raw counting stats average and taking into a count usage rate are sort of far apart. When rascal looked up counting stats, i can’t see anyway he’d (assuming the user is a he as I’m assuming most of us are) can take the effort to calculate the previous 8 years of stats to compare to this years stats without seeing that his stats plummeted from his Knicks years. He couldve pulled the usage rates and I’d be fine with the argument because that would be an honest argument. What he did was straight out dishonest.

In terms of results, randle played well in the playoffs based on matchups, but I’m just thinking what the wolves would do with their salary situation. There are many situations for them to make things work and yes, I’m looking at this is as a Boolean situation where they either keep or get rid of him. If they want to get rid of one of Randle, naz or NAW, I’d think it would be Randle, then eventually see how they can rid of Gobert and just rebuild around ant.

To your point though, if they can fit everyone under a team friendly deal, and they believe this team can contend, then they may run it for a few years. I think they are a pretender though.

Randle’s career USG% is 26.6, compared to 25 this season. If his numbers are off his career numbers, the USG% makes it a fair criticism.

[DAF86]

Vassell already had his chance to prove he's a primary option and he didn't came through. Next season he needs to hone in into his 3 and D skills if he wants to have a future in this team.

[BackHome]

I think the problem is he is going to think he is the sixth man and will try to do to much starting with the second unit guys. When in reality he needs to play with the flow get people the ball and shoot when open and play hard defense all the time