Pick #14 - Strategies

[John B]

With the "Glory of Men, Wemby" being with us.....

and the Triumvirate (Fox, Castle, Harper) set to scorch the NBA

Might as well experiment with the 14th pick....

A unique player is Wolf, really, very intriguing skillset

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC1XmiSvRtw

I really liked watching Michigan basketball last season, very reminiscent of the twin towers plus occasional passing of their big guy. That is what Danny Wolf brings, a very skilled, smart basketball player. His coach made him a Point Forward, and he run away with it. We like to see Mamu play except he’s a little too short to defend bigs. Wolf is 6’10 1/5 without shoes, and 9’1 starting reach. He can help with the rebound and block shots. But he can also shoot deep (as he showed at the Combine) and he can push the ball and pass. Imagine 5 players who all have guard skills, moving the ball, cutting and finding the best from the better shots.

[benefactor]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks
This is the likely outcome tbh

[Vienna]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

considering the circumstances I'm meanwhile 99% sure Spurs will trade the pick. It just doesn't make sense to keep it at this point.
they need to figure out rotations with Harper, Castle and Fox, a rookie and a 2nd year player and they want to improve, make the PO, because those guys need to learn postseason play.
even if Bryant fell to #14 and would be an interesting project long term, they sure don't want to play him 2 years in the g league for 5 million per year.

so, if they trade the #14 pick for a veteran, they want at least a player, who could be part of the starting line up.

I know, they usually would not look at a divison rival for a trade, but what about Mavs? PJ Washington? he should be an interesting fit and Mavs face two issues: Flagg will eat most of PJ's minutes and they need guards.

for sure they would love to add Jakucionis, Traore or Denim. so they would be very interested in the #14 pick, right?

what is the package? #14 and Vassell for PJ and Gafford?

another player, who might be intriguing is Toumani Camara. Spurs might not want to give the #14 pick for him though. but maybe a package? or, what if they ask for Avdija plus Camara? what is the price? #14, a future 1st, Sochan, Keldon?

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

depends on who that upgrade is, but I'd rather keep the pick and shop Keldon, Branham and a gang of second round picks tbh



what is the package? #14 and Vassell for PJ and Gafford?

you have my attention

[cutewizard]

I really liked watching Michigan basketball last season, very reminiscent of the twin towers plus occasional passing of their big guy. That is what Danny Wolf brings, a very skilled, smart basketball player. His coach made him a Point Forward, and he run away with it. We like to see Mamu play except he’s a little too short to defend bigs. Wolf is 6’10 1/5 without shoes, and 9’1 starting reach. He can help with the rebound and block shots. But he can also shoot deep (as he showed at the Combine) and he can push the ball and pass. Imagine 5 players who all have guard skills, moving the ball, cutting and finding the best from the better shots.

==========================

Indeed Sir, thank you.

[cutewizard]

Here is another prospect >>


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVgSKoBxgJQ

[CGD]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45104149/2025-nba-draft-combine-chicago-prospects-workout-highlights-measurements-stats-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

Sounds like code for Dev/14 for KD

[rascal]

I'm sure they will keep the pick. Too many people are going on what happened with last year's pick but the Spurs weren't high on any player last year. Spurs still need to fill some roster holes.

This year there will be a player the Spurs will like at 14. The draft is deeper this year than last year.

[The Truth #6]

Fans are focused in Fleming at 14, maybe Sorber or Liam. But the guy from UAB, Yaxel Luxembourg (?), might be a very Spurs pick. Toolsy 4 type of player.

[exstatic]

This pick came from Atlanta. John Collins came from Atlanta. If we use the pick to get him, wouldn’t that be like a continuation of the Dejounte trade?

[rankingtear]

Should trade this if they are picking at 2. You hope the role guys goes before the pick so the team would be primed for a trade out scenario.

[LeBowen]

Should trade this if they are picking at 2. You hope the role guys goes before the pick so the team would be primed for a trade out scenario.

What's wrong with role guys? We need role guys.
We've been over this many times, there are very few players around the league of the archetype we need.
6'8-6'11 physical forwards who are positive defenders, rebounders and good shooters. Yes, it's a role player archetype, but one that's difficult to acquire, especially when contracts and cap space come into play.
So if we can draft a let's say OG Anunoby or Jaden McDaniels type with #14, we do it every single time.

Backup bigs are easier to find and using a lottery pick on one might be too much if it's just a rim running rim protector that doesn't do much else.

[spursistan]

At some point you have to start drafting your bigs again.

https://x.com/spurs_muse/status/1923027842084098255

[rankingtear]

What's wrong with role guys? We need role guys.
We've been over this many times, there are very few players around the league of the archetype we need.
6'8-6'11 physical forwards who are positive defenders, rebounders and good shooters. Yes, it's a role player archetype, but one that's difficult to acquire, especially when contracts and cap space come into play.
So if we can draft a let's say OG Anunoby or Jaden McDaniels type with #14, we do it every single time.

Backup bigs are easier to find and using a lottery pick on one might be too much if it's just a rim running rim protector that doesn't do much else.

Nobody trades in or up for them.

[Degoat]

At some point you have to start drafting your bigs again.

https://x.com/spurs_muse/status/1923027842084098255

Thats been on my my mind for a bit lol I’ve always been surprised the spurs haven’t focused on drafting a young big just to bring him into the system/Culture to develop. Look how impactful a washed up Bismarck was for us late into last season, we definitely need another big unless they believe they can find an impactful one in free agency.

[vy65]

I asked Chat GPT to do a mock draft for me, and this Elohim kid is now going #7, except now he goes to Arkansas. Is he even a real person?

Also, ChatGPT has a bunch of guys from last year being drafted this year. AI isn't taking our jobs quite yet.



Dallas Mavericks – Cooper Flagg (F, Duke)
A versatile forward with elite athleticism and a high basketball IQ, Flagg is poised to be a franchise cornerstone for Dallas.

San Antonio Spurs – Dylan Harper (G, Rutgers)
A dynamic guard known for his scoring and playmaking abilities, Harper averaged 19.4 points per game and is expected to make an immediate impact.

Philadelphia 76ers – Ace Bailey (F, Rutgers)
Despite a challenging season, Bailey's potential as a two-way player keeps him in the top tier.

Utah Jazz – VJ Edgecombe (G/F, Baylor)
A high-energy wing with defensive prowess and athleticism, Edgecombe offers versatility on both ends of the floor.

Charlotte Hornets – Khaman Maluach (C, NBA Academy Africa)
A 7'2" center with a 7'6" wingspan, Maluach brings rim protection and rebounding, addressing Charlotte's interior needs.

Washington Wizards – Carter Bryant (F, Arizona)
An athletic forward with scoring upside, Bryant's performance at Arizona has elevated his draft stock.

Houston Rockets – Isaiah Elohim (G, Arkansas)
A strong, athletic guard known for his defensive tenacity and slashing ability, Elohim fits well with Houston's young core.

Detroit Pistons – Ron Holland (F, G League Ignite)
A high-motor forward who excels in transition and defense, Holland adds energy and versatility to Detroit's lineup.

Orlando Magic – Matas Buzelis (F, G League Ignite)
A skilled forward with shooting range and playmaking skills, Buzelis complements Orlando's roster with his offensive versatility.

Toronto Raptors – Justin Edwards (G/F, Kentucky)
A smooth-scoring wing with a polished offensive game, Edwards provides Toronto with a reliable perimeter threat.

Portland Trail Blazers – Jeremiah Fears (G, Oklahoma)
A dynamic guard with scoring and playmaking abilities, Fears adds depth to Portland's backcourt.

Chicago Bulls – Asa Newell (F, Georgia)
A versatile forward with size and skill, Newell offers Chicago a promising frontcourt option.

Atlanta Hawks (from Sacramento) – Noa Essengue (F, Ratiopharm Ulm)
An international prospect with athleticism and defensive potential, Essengue brings energy to Atlanta's rotation.

San Antonio Spurs (from Atlanta) – Liam McNeeley (F, UConn)
A high-IQ forward with shooting ability, McNeeley fits well into San Antonio's system.

This mock draft reflects current projections and team needs, but with the draft approaching on June 25-26, player evaluations and team strategies may lead to changes.

Gotta learn how to prompt it bruv (if you had an AI girlfriend, you’d understand)

Do a 2025 nba mock draft for me. I want you to review only the most recent mock drafts available online since last Tuesday. Be sure to examine team fit when giving me your list

1. Dallas Mavericks – Cooper Flagg, F, Duke
The Mavericks, having secured the No. 1 pick, are expected to select Cooper Flagg. At 6’9”, Flagg is a versatile forward known for his defensive prowess and playmaking ability. His addition could provide Dallas with a cornerstone player to build around.
2. San Antonio Spurs – Dylan Harper, G, Rutgers
The Spurs are projected to pick Dylan Harper, a 6’6” guard who brings scoring and playmaking skills. Harper’s versatility could complement San Antonio’s existing roster and provide a dynamic backcourt presence.
3. Philadelphia 76ers – Ace Bailey, F, Rutgers
With the third pick, the 76ers might select Ace Bailey, a 6’9” forward known for his athleticism and scoring ability. Bailey’s potential to contribute on both ends of the floor could make him a valuable asset for Philadelphia.
4. Charlotte Hornets – VJ Edgecombe, G, Baylor
The Hornets could opt for VJ Edgecombe, a 6’5” guard recognized for his athleticism and defensive capabilities. Edgecombe’s energy and perimeter defense might address Charlotte’s needs on the wing.
5. Utah Jazz – Tre Johnson, G, Texas
Utah may select Tre Johnson, a 6’6” guard with a reputation for scoring. Johnson’s offensive skills could provide the Jazz with a reliable scoring option in their backcourt.
6. Washington Wizards – Kon Knueppel, F, Duke
The Wizards might choose Kon Knueppel, a 6’6” forward known for his shooting ability. Knueppel’s perimeter scoring could help Washington stretch the floor and improve their offensive efficiency.
7. New Orleans Pelicans – Kasparas Jakucionis, G, Illinois
New Orleans could consider Kasparas Jakucionis, a 6’6” guard with international experience. His playmaking and size might complement the Pelicans’ existing roster, providing versatility in their guard rotation.
8. Detroit Pistons – Jeremiah Fears, G, Illinois
The Pistons may opt for Jeremiah Fears, a 6’3” guard known for his scoring and leadership. Fears’ ability to create shots could bolster Detroit’s offensive options.
9. Portland Trail Blazers – Khaman Maluach, C, Duke
Portland might select Khaman Maluach, a 7’2” center recognized for his rim protection and rebounding. Maluach’s presence in the paint could address the Trail Blazers’ interior defense needs.
10. Houston Rockets – Thomas Sorber, C, Georgetown
The Rockets, holding the 10th pick, are considering Thomas Sorber, a 6’9” center known for his physicality and interior scoring. Sorber’s skills could provide Houston with depth in the frontcourt.

[rankingtear]

Thats been on my my mind for a bit lol I’ve always been surprised the spurs haven’t focused on drafting a young big just to bring him into the system/Culture to develop. Look how impactful a washed up Bismarck was for us late into last season, we definitely need another big unless they believe they can find an impactful one in free agency.

Cause bigs dictate your playstyle too much.

[Vienna]

what's the story with De'Andre Hunter?
yes, he had his ups and downs in the last two years (in this PO as well).
Cavs will react after the disappointment and they might be open for several trade scenarios.

ok, #14 might be a bit to much though. anything else Spurs want from them? (outside Mobley)

[Uriel]

A lot of people are assuming the 14th pick gets moved, in large part because of what happened last year. But remember, the Spurs were ready to make a selection with that pick until Minnesota came calling with a last minute trade offer. Unless a similar trade opportunity materializes this year, the Spurs will probably be forced to use the selection, even against their will.

[exstatic]

What's wrong with role guys? We need role guys.
We've been over this many times, there are very few players around the league of the archetype we need.
6'8-6'11 physical forwards who are positive defenders, rebounders and good shooters. Yes, it's a role player archetype, but one that's difficult to acquire, especially when contracts and cap space come into play.
So if we can draft a let's say OG Anunoby or Jaden McDaniels type with #14, we do it every single time.

Backup bigs are easier to find and using a lottery pick on one might be too much if it's just a rim running rim protector that doesn't do much else.

You’re not going to find a big wing at #14 who will be anything in the next 3 seasons. That’s why you don’t draft there. Fill positional needs in FA.

[exstatic]

A lot of people are assuming the 14th pick gets moved, in large part because of what happened last year. But remember, the Spurs were ready to make a selection with that pick until Minnesota came calling with a last minute trade offer. Unless a similar trade opportunity materializes this year, the Spurs will probably be forced to use the selection, even against their will.

Picks in that range are usually in demand. We got stuck in 2022 because our ancillary picks were 20 and 26. I don’t see them having a problem moving it. What they usually do is field calls, and set up a couple of potential deals so that at least one of the possible trade partners has someone on the board that they like when they go on the clock.

[Bruno]

considering the circumstances I'm meanwhile 99% sure Spurs will trade the pick.

Agree, when you look at Spurs trade situation, this draft might be the time to do a move.

First, after this draft, Spurs will have 1 first round pick per draft:;
2026: Best of Spurs and Hawks
2027: Hawks
2028: Best of Spurs and Celtics (top1 protected)
2029: Spurs
2030: Best of Spurs, Mavs and Wolves (top1 protected)
2031: Best of Spurs and Kings
Great picks quality wise but Spurs war chest is now average quantity wise. Spurs aren't in a situation were they can throw a couple of future first round picks without hurting that future. If Spurs start trading these picks, even with protections, they will lose a lot of flexibility because of the Ted Stepien rule.

Right now, I would put Spurs trade assets in 3 tiers:

- Premium assets: Spurs might only trade some of them for, maybe a top 20 player: Wembanyama, #2, Fox and Castle.

- Assets with some value: #14, Vassell, Sochan and maybe Champagnie.

- Assets with little to no value: second round picks, Keldon and expiring contracts(Barnes, Branham and Wesley).


Spurs don't really have that much to offer in trades. #14 and Vassell might be the only ones that Spurs are willing to offer and that are interesting for other teams. Trade value of #14 will be at it's peak on draft night. I'm not sure how Vassell trade value will evolve. Playing more off the ball should help him but he should have less shots per game to put stats and will play out of position at SF.

[LeBowen]

You’re not going to find a big wing at #14 who will be anything in the next 3 seasons.

We have Keldon and Jeremy as regular rotation members right now.
Maybe we get a player who's not ready right away, but as per usual you just over-exaggerate your point for no reason.


That’s why you don’t draft there. Fill positional needs in FA.

How many times do we have to go over it? There's just a few players available.
The best UFA is Taurean Prince, ffs.
Naz and Aldama aren't realistic targets because their teams cleared cap space to retain them.
John Collins is my #1 target.
Who else is there in free agency?
We need a starting PF (trade/FA) and a backup PF (minimum contract like Mamu and/or #14 pick).

We won't be ready to contend for a year or two, we can afford to draft and develop a wing we need over that period if someone who's worth developing is available.
I never said #14 would be a starter right away.

[exstatic]

We have Keldon and Jeremy as regular rotation members right now.
Maybe we get a player who's not ready right away, but as per usual you just over-exaggerate your point for no reason.



How many times do we have to go over it? There's just a few players available.
The best UFA is Taurean Prince, ffs.
Naz and Aldama aren't realistic targets because their teams cleared cap space to retain them.
John Collins is my #1 target.
Who else is there in free agency?
We need a starting PF (trade/FA) and a backup PF (minimum contract like Mamu and/or #14 pick).

We won't be ready to contend for a year or two, we can afford to draft and develop a wing we need over that period if someone who's worth developing is available.
I never said #14 would be a starter right away.

It’s not an exaggeration. Guys picked in that range are generally not close to ready. If they were,they’d be picked at 4 and not 14. If you don’t think they’ll be ready for a bit, kick the pick down the road. If we’re not ready to contend, then 2025 shouldn’t be the only FA class we look at. 2026 looks good, both for top tier and secondary guys.

We have two guys with All NBA potential, a budding possible All Star, and a massive guard prospect. We’re past the point where we need to draft projects with a late lottery pick.

[Atl Spur]

Agree, when you look at Spurs trade situation, this draft might be the time to do a move.

First, after this draft, Spurs will have 1 first round pick per draft:;
2026: Best of Spurs and Hawks
2027: Hawks
2028: Best of Spurs and Celtics (top1 protected)
2029: Spurs
2030: Best of Spurs, Mavs and Wolves (top1 protected)
2031: Best of Spurs and Kings
Great picks quality wise but Spurs war chest is now average quantity wise. Spurs aren't in a situation were they can throw a couple of future first round picks without hurting that future. If Spurs start trading these picks, even with protections, they will lose a lot of flexibility because of the Ted Stepien rule.

Right now, I would put Spurs trade assets in 3 tiers:

- Premium assets: Spurs might only trade some of them for, maybe a top 20 player: Wembanyama, #2, Fox and Castle.

- Assets with some value: #14, Vassell, Sochan and maybe Champagnie.

- Assets with little to no value: second round picks, Keldon and expiring contracts(Barnes, Branham and Wesley).


Spurs don't really have that much to offer in trades. #14 and Vassell might be the only ones that Spurs are willing to offer and that are interesting for other teams. Trade value of #14 will be at it's peak on draft night. I'm not sure how Vassell trade value will evolve. Playing more off the ball should help him but he should have less shots per game to put stats and will play out of position at SF.

Second round picks are actually gold these days….

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Second round picks are actually gold these days….

Not as much anymore with the NIL money.

[stnick2261]

There are a lot of players that I'd like on the team in the #10-#20 (or later) range. I'd love a 3&D Wing, 3&D Forward, and a Center.

My dream draft would be: Trading Vassell and Keldon (and receiving more draft picks in the process)... Harper & Sorber & McNeeley & Fleming (Wolf if Sorber is not available).

I know they would absolutely NOT draft 4 players in 1 summer but that would just be ideal for me.

[LeBowen]

It’s not an exaggeration. Guys picked in that range are generally not close to ready.

There's a huge difference between 1 and 3 years of not being ready, that was my point.


If they were,they’d be picked at 4 and not 14.

Or maybe they're not picked at #4 because they don't have all-star upside?
Jazz and Wizards don't need 3-D role players before they get their first and second option.


If you don’t think they’ll be ready for a bit, kick the pick down the road. If we’re not ready to contend, then 2025 shouldn’t be the only FA class we look at.

But then you won't be looking at anything other than players who are ready right away.
What's the difference between using a #14 now to select a player who can be a legit starter in 27-28 season compared to picking someone who's supposed to be ready in 2027 draft?
We have roster space for both free agents and rookies, we just need to get rid of players who've already proven they won't be good enough long term.


2026 looks good, both for top tier and secondary guys.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2026

Better than 2025, but not that good.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Great interview. I like the down to earth demeanor, and his desired player comps are spot on for what we need.

Second here bro!

[scott]

another player, who might be intriguing is Toumani Camara. Spurs might not want to give the #14 pick for him though. but maybe a package? or, what if they ask for Avdija plus Camara? what is the price? #14, a future 1st, Sochan, Keldon?

I'd do #14 for Camara in a heartbeat

[Seventyniner]

I'd do #14 for Camara in a heartbeat

No way Portland takes that. Camara is one of the best value contracts in the league.

I think it was Vecenie who said the Blazers might have some interest in Vassell, which could facilitate a Giannis-to-Spurs trade because it could involve the Bucks getting some control over their future drafts back from Portland. But I highly doubt the Blazers value Vassell enough to give up their MIL draft control and Camara.

[LeBowen]

I think it was Vecenie who said the Blazers might have some interest in Vassell

Interesting, I guess they don't rate Sharpe on Simons?
I'd honestly do Vassell+Branham for Ayton, just to get rid of Devin's salary.
Ayton is overpaid a lot, but he'd be an expiring contract and would have to put some effort in if he's to get anything more than a minimum on his next deal.

[baseline bum]

https://youtu.be/szgWwOkkfSc?si=kq7KnWNreQ4Kn7-Z

This guy looked at some mock trades with the Spurs acquiring KD. Sochan, Barnes, Keldon, and #14 was one of the suggestions. I think I’d pull the trigger on that one. Depth would be a huge question mark but man that starting 5 would be nasty.

It will be interesting to see the package Phoenix gets for KD. I don’t see any way he isn’t moved.

Not at all interested in trading Barnes, especially when he will be critical for games Durant misses.

[scott]

No way Portland takes that. Camara is one of the best value contracts in the league.

I think it was Vecenie who said the Blazers might have some interest in Vassell, which could facilitate a Giannis-to-Spurs trade because it could involve the Bucks getting some control over their future drafts back from Portland. But I highly doubt the Blazers value Vassell enough to give up their MIL draft control and Camara.

I agree. Camara is valuable on the court and has a super value contract that makes him even more valuable. If I were POR I wouldn't trade him for #14 either, I was just responding to the suggestion that the Spurs would view #14 as too rich for Camara.

[Guru of Nothing]

Not sure I recall anybody here buzzing about the possibility of acquiring Porzingis. He's got one year remaining at $30M, which is close to Vassell's $27M. How willing is Boston going to be to get off of that payment with the 2nd apron and all it entails. Chicago basically gave Lavine away to get out of his $50M contract. Wondering if there's a way to bring on KP and send out Vassell, the 1.14, and other reasonable considerations. Would need a third team to absorb Vassell.

Don't know much about KP's status, but that he is struggling in the post-season. Still, a healthy KP on the Spurs would make for an insane one-year rental.

[RedAzSa]

Not as much anymore with the NIL money.
The relationship between the NIL and the draft is interesting to think about. As far as I understand, the theory is that there is some group of players that would have declared for the draft this year but instead went back to college because they were offered enough money to make it worthwhile. Let's say that this is the new normal and repeats itself year after year. In the short term, this would certainly lead to a thinner crop of prospects, especially in the second round, but what happens a few years down the line? Those players that could have declared in 2025 but chose not to are still likely to enter the draft a few years later, right? At that point, they are likely improved players and closer to contributing than they would have been this year. Would this not lead to a deeper crop of players in the second round a few years from now? If so, then seconds might actually increase in value over time. (Sure, there are likely to be some high-risk high-reward players that flame out with additional time in college, but I imagine that the majority of prospects would improve over time.) All of this is just speculation, but I think it's fascinating to project.

[PopTheGOAT]

Not at all interested in trading Barnes, especially when he will be critical for games Durant misses.
That’s probably the bare minimum offer. I suppose they could explore something with Vassell instead of Barnes.

[Dejounte]

Honestly I would be happy with a lot of the available prospects. I think you can only go wrong with a few. If they went with McNeeley, Asa, Philon… those are the only three guys I’d come away unhappy with the 14th pick.

[baseline bum]

That’s probably the bare minimum offer. I suppose they could explore something with Vassell instead of Barnes.

Now the Spurs are going to have so many great attackers off the dribble Vassell is useless and a spot up shooter like Barnes is so much more important. I would much much rather move Vassell than Unc for Durant even knowing Vassell is probably going to put up numbers and have everyone saying how stupid the Spurs were after a trade.

[mo7888]

Honestly I would be happy with a lot of the available prospects. I think you can only go wrong with a few. If they went with McNeeley, Asa, Philon… those are the only three guys I’d come away unhappy with the 14th pick.

I'd be very happy with McNeely at #14, but I also do think there are several guys that'll be on the board that I'd be happy with.

[PopTheGOAT]

Now the Spurs are going to have so many great attackers off the dribble Vassell is useless and a spot up shooter like Barnes is so much more important. I would much much rather move Vassell than Unc for Durant even knowing Vassell is probably going to put up numbers and have everyone saying how stupid the Spurs were after a trade.
Whatever he’s doing, I’m sure KD would exceed lol. It’s going on year 6. I’ve seen enough.

I don’t think this happens and I’m ok with that, but if they don’t make moves in FA/#14 to upgrade at C and SF(shooting) I’d be disappointed. I want to see signs that they’re ready to go for it. I’m hoping this is the last lottery we’re in (with our own picks at least) for the foreseeable future.

[T Park]

im fully prepared for 14 to be traded cause they don't want two rookies, even though there's going to be some insane talent available, IE Fleming or Coward, Coward being the perfect fit.

if they keep it and address a need, perfect.

[mo7888]

With the assumption that we don't trade this for a vet or future picks I think I've settled on 2 paths i like better than stating at 14.

1) I'd package it with #38 and see if I could move up a couple spots or

2) use it to trade back with Brooklyn for #19 + #26

[Degoat]

I can the spurs going in several different routes with this pick lol ultimately it probably gets traded but you could grab any pressing need the team is lacking

[Dejounte]

With the assumption that we don't trade this for a vet or future picks I think I've settled on 2 paths i like better than stating at 14.

1) I'd package it with #38 and see if I could move up a couple spots or

2) use it to trade back with Brooklyn for #19 + #26

The more picks they make, the more “awkward” it is for them to deal with players on their current roster. I think in terms of that, they usually choose the path of least resistance. I don’t think this FO has it in them to say goodbye to too many players (at least the ones they drafted and kept for several years). Like, they can do away with one a year like they did with Samanic and Lonnie before him, but all at once…? I am skeptical.

[mo7888]

The more picks they make, the more “awkward” it is for them to deal with players on their current roster. I think in terms of that, they usually choose the path of least resistance. I don’t think this FO has it in them to say goodbye to too many players (at least the ones they drafted and kept for several years). Like, they can do away with one a year like they did with Samanic and Lonnie before him, but all at once…? I am skeptical.

I don't think they take more than 3, nor do I think they should. I'd prefer to move up, but if they moved back I'd think they'd move #38 for future considerations.

[dn0774]

Man this 14th pick is really hard to get excited about. Should be some very interesting talent to be had but I fully expect the Spurs to trade off it ala 8th pick last year.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

With the assumption that we don't trade this for a vet or future picks I think I've settled on 2 paths i like better than stating at 14.

1) I'd package it with #38 and see if I could move up a couple spots or

Think Chicago would have any interest in 14+38 for 12?

[TD 21]

If retained and available, in order I'd select: Sorber, Bryant, Coward, Lendeborg.

[mo7888]

Think Chicago would have any interest in 14+38 for 12?

Maybe, it just depends on if their preferred target is off the board when they pick at #12.

[Knoxxx]

I'd be very happy with McNeely at #14, but I also do think there are several guys that'll be on the board that I'd be happy with.

I like McNeeley a lot more without the logjam of KJ-Sochan-Vassell-Barnes still leaving us without a genuine PF.

[rascal]

I like McNeeley a lot more without the logjam of KJ-Sochan-Vassell-Barnes still leaving us without a genuine PF.

Draft McNeeley(spurs will be set at 1,2,3) and make a trade involving one or two from the listed players above to fill PF and Center.

That should be the move. Which teams would be willing to trade a 4 or 5 for the players you listed?

I've seen posts talking about trades acquiring 3 and d forwards but what frontline players 4/5 might be available for a trade?

[mo7888]

I like McNeeley a lot more without the logjam of KJ-Sochan-Vassell-Barnes still leaving us without a genuine PF.

To me drafting McNeely and acquiring a legit PF aren't mutually exclusive. To me they are separate issues.

[scott]

Draft McNeeley(spurs will be set at 1,2,3) and make a trade involving one or two from the listed players above to fill PF and Center.

That should be the move. Which teams would be willing to trade a 4 or 5 for the players you listed?

I've seen posts talking about trades acquiring 3 and d forwards but what frontline players 4/5 might be available for a trade?

I think a lot of us agree that this should be the move (drafting whomever is best at 14, McNeely or otherwise, and trading some of the Power of Friendship for legit frontline help)... but I'm really skeptical the FO will make such a trade, in which case drafting a PF might be our best bet. Hope I'm wrong.

[Ariel]

I haven't followed this draft process as closely as others, but I have been catching up lately. Spurs have plenty of on ball guys to go around, they need complementary pieces who can defend, rebound, and shoot, and there are quite a few interesting ones.

At the top of my board I'd put Carter Bryant (low sample but eye test suggests he has more upside than his production lets on) and Sorber (assuming health checks out).
Then I'd consider Cedric Coward and Drake Powell (excellent physical profile, dependable shooters, smart and mature),
Finally Rasheer Fleming (Jaden McDaniels lite with a more dependable shot), Lendeborg (very solid across the board), Liam McNeely (is flying under the radar, has some worrisome red flags such as his poor finishing at the rim and athleticism, but worth a look later on).
In the second round, I like Maxime Raynaud and Kalkbrenner.

This feels like a class where there are lots of interesting prospects who not only fit exactly what the roster needs, but have a very solid floor and some sneaky upside. I would try to get another pick close to the 20s if I could, I realize Spurs are unlikely to take 3/4 players but it's time to clean house and move on to the next phase.

[RC_Drunkford]

Draft McNeeley(spurs will be set at 1,2,3) and make a trade involving one or two from the listed players above to fill PF and Center.

That should be the move. Which teams would be willing to trade a 4 or 5 for the players you listed?

I've seen posts talking about trades acquiring 3 and d forwards but what frontline players 4/5 might be available for a trade?

PJ Washington, Hachimura and John Collins all have 1 year left on their deals. Collins can opt out and become a free agent. All 3 should be available.

[Splits]

I'm sure they will keep the pick. Too many people are going on what happened with last year's pick but the Spurs weren't high on any player last year. Spurs still need to fill some roster holes.

This year there will be a player the Spurs will like at 14. The draft is deeper this year than last year.


Nope. this pick will get traded faster than your sister at a fruit market

[Guru of Nothing]

Starting to gel around the idea of Thomas Sorber. Need and talent/value at 14 make him compelling. He has a low-key, deceptively better than he looks at first glance, game that looks pretty Spursy. Should pair well with Wemby for a 2-big config, and maybe fill it up a little with the second unit if we're running elite guard play 24x7. It's fun to mock the Mavs lately, but their front court is going to be a big problem... as currently constructed, lots of sea changes inbound throughout the league soon.

Looks like he could have elite level footwork too. Maybe set him up with some one-on-one tutelage at the Tim Duncan academy of footwork and put a shine on things.

Looks good in silver too.

[rascal]

Nope. this pick will get traded faster than your sister at a fruit market

Disagree

Last year they didn't like the players at 8 so a trade made sense but this year is deeper with better players than what was availabe at 8 last year falling further down to 14.

[Arguendo]

The trouble with Fleming is the what I call the Jalen Williams OKC problem.

You draft an older player who hits the ground running and looks like a brilliant pick, a steal.

But as good as he is, he still has a ceiling that is what it is.

Then you have to pay him at some point, maybe the max.

Then a bargain becomes a dilemma.

The key with a guy like Jalen Williams or Fleming is timing.

If you're a mature winning team, you can pick those guys, use them and then let them walk.

But if you're a young emerging team, and you make them one of your building blocks, then you may have a problem.

The question is, what stage are the Spurs at now?

I think the Spurs are a year or so away from taking a guy like Fleming.
Right, teams should avoid drafting future All-Stars who put up 21.6/5/5 with good D at 23 because their ceiling is their ceiling because... because they haven't turned 21 yet on draft night?

This is such a weird take. JWill is not a dilemma, he's a 23y/o that put up 21.6/5/5 on .48/.37/.79 with plus D, whose likely to be All-NBA3 and All-D. He is not a dilemma, he's a GIANT asset.
Trades exist right and 23y/o All-NBA two-way guys are incredibly, like those guys that make All-NBA and All-D level at 23 are the most likely to be HOFer rare.

Wash is not better off having less talent but more future cap space and Johnny Davis.
If Dylan Harper looks like Jalen Williams in 3 yrs, we'd be absolutely ecstatic. And we'd rightfully be happy to pay him.

Fleming won't turn 21 until after the draft, big men often take longer to develop, ceilings are ceilings, looking at assets as dilemmas dumb, and maybe we/whoever get 2 better years before paying Fleming because he developed in college and not on the payroll. His rookie deal will take him through his 24y/o season, then he'll be restricted and we'd be ecstatic if there's a conversation of if he's a Max guy because that would mean he exceeded even the highest expectations.

This is such a weird take, their are very few guys like this at this age, its a HOF path especially if they beat Den tonight and ring this yr, and none of those guys are dilemmas on their 2nd contract, especially with an escalating cap. He is not a 28y/o Jaylen Brown getting a super max on his third contract. JWill is not a dilemma, maybe in 4 years he is, but today he's one of the 15 most valuable assets in the NBA and likely to be look like a perfect Robin on a Championship team in a few weeks.

[exstatic]

Right, teams should avoid drafting future All-Stars who put up 21.6/5/5 with good D at 23 because their ceiling is their ceiling because... because they haven't turned 21 yet on draft night?

This is such a weird take. JWill is not a dilemma, he's a 23y/o that put up 21.6/5/5 on .48/.37/.79 with plus D, whose likely to be All-NBA3 and All-D. He is not a dilemma, he's a GIANT asset.
Trades exist right and 23y/o All-NBA two-way guys are incredibly, like those guys that make All-NBA and All-D level at 23 are the most likely to be HOFer rare.

Wash is not better off having less talent but more future cap space and Johnny Davis.
If Dylan Harper looks like Jalen Williams in 3 yrs, we'd be absolutely ecstatic. And we'd rightfully be happy to pay him.

Fleming won't turn 21 until after the draft, big men often take longer to develop, ceilings are ceilings, looking at assets as dilemmas dumb, and maybe we/whoever get 2 better years before paying Fleming because he developed in college and not on the payroll. His rookie deal will take him through his 24y/o season, then he'll be restricted and we'd be ecstatic if there's a conversation of if he's a Max guy because that would mean he exceeded even the highest expectations.

This is such a weird take, their are very few guys like this at this age, its a HOF path especially if they beat Den tonight and ring this yr, and none of those guys are dilemmas on their 2nd contract, especially with an escalating cap. He is not a 28y/o Jaylen Brown getting a super max on his third contract. JWill is not a dilemma, maybe in 4 years he is, but today he's one of the 15 most valuable assets in the NBA and likely to be look like a perfect Robin on a Championship team in a few weeks.

He kind of shits the bed after the first round, though. Second year I narrow, and OKC is kind of winning in spite of him, not because of him. This series should be over,not going to game 7.

If he makes 3rd team All NBA, he can thank Wemby’s blood clot, and it will also fuck up OKC’s cap, because that makes him SuperMax eligible.

[RC_Drunkford]

The trouble with Fleming is the what I call the Jalen Williams OKC problem.

You draft an older player who hits the ground running and looks like a brilliant pick, a steal.

But as good as he is, he still has a ceiling that is what it is.

Then you have to pay him at some point, maybe the max.

Then a bargain becomes a dilemma.

The key with a guy like Jalen Williams or Fleming is timing.

If you're a mature winning team, you can pick those guys, use them and then let them walk.

But if you're a young emerging team, and you make them one of your building blocks, then you may have a problem.

The question is, what stage are the Spurs at now?

I think the Spurs are a year or so away from taking a guy like Fleming.

I think nobody on planet earth thinks Fleming will ever become a max player tbh

[Russ]

He kind of shits the bed after the first round, though. Second year I narrow, and OKC is kind of winning in spite of him, not because of him. This series should be over,not going to game 7.

If he makes 3rd team All NBA, he can thank Wemby’s blood clot, and it will also fuck up OKC’s cap, because that makes him SuperMax eligible.

Maybe my post was inarticulate or somewhat muddled.

But the bottom line is -- I think Jalen Williams is fools gold.

If he isn't a part of your plans when you really get good, then he's actually been a negative -- he's just been taking valuable minutes from someone who might.

In the end, you're not left with nothing, you're left with less than nothing.

[exstatic]

Maybe my post was inarticulate or somewhat muddled.

But the bottom line is -- I think Jalen Williams is fools gold.

If he isn't a part of your plans when you really get good, then he's actually been a negative -- he's just been taking valuable minutes from someone who might.

In the end, you're not left with nothing, you're left with less than nothing.

My post wasn’t a reply to you, it was quoted to arguendo. I got what you were saying.

[Russ]

My post wasn’t a reply to you, it was quoted to arguendo. I got what you were saying.

Yeah, just responding to some earlier comments.

[jesterbobman]

If it's Harper at 2 (I think it should be), then my ideal at 14 is Essengue. I can get Fleming / Carter ahead of him on big boards, and having guys like Yaxel similar (and trying a 2:1 trade with Brooklyn). But at 14, I'd go Noa.

I don't think that can be looked at entirely in isolation. Still a need to add more shooting, and a back up Centre. I think adding those is easier than a true wing option.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Maybe my post was inarticulate or somewhat muddled.

But the bottom line is -- I think Jalen Williams is fools gold.

If he isn't a part of your plans when you really get good, then he's actually been a negative -- he's just been taking valuable minutes from someone who might.

In the end, you're not left with nothing, you're left with less than nothing.

Wait, you think JDub has negative trade value?

[Extra Stout]

Maybe my post was inarticulate or somewhat muddled.

But the bottom line is -- I think Jalen Williams is fools gold.

If he isn't a part of your plans when you really get good, then he's actually been a negative -- he's just been taking valuable minutes from someone who might.

In the end, you're not left with nothing, you're left with less than nothing.
Aged like guacamole

[Russ]

Wait, you think JDub has negative trade value?

Isn't he like becoming a FA?

Obviously, he has trade value if he has time left on his K.

[scott]

Isn't he like becoming a FA?

Obviously, he has trade value if he has time left on his K.

He has one year left on his rookie deal, and then he’ll be an RFA… so no, he isn’t becoming a FA

[Russ]

He has one year left on his rookie deal, and then he’ll be an RFA… so no, he isn’t becoming a FA

To Jalen Williams.

:toast

[Guru of Nothing]

Hot take: I think Jalen Williams is an excellent basketball player.

[Vienna]

I think nobody on planet earth thinks Fleming will ever become a max player tbh
Someone who thinks planet earth is flat maybe will.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Someone who thinks planet earth is flat maybe will.

Kyrie and Jaylen Brown biggest Fleming fans confirmed.

[Dejounte]

Hot take: I think Jalen Williams is an excellent basketball player.
The hot take is that he isn’t.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Its stupid to call Jalen Williams anything less than a very good player. In just his third season, he has blossomed into an all-Star and an all-Defensive Team presence.

[scott]

Auspicious timing for folks to unveil their “Jalen Williams is fools gold” takes

[LeBowen]

Auspicious timing for folks to unveil their “Jalen Williams is fools gold” takes

Wow, he finally had a good game after three embarrassing performances.
Not to mention he's been guarded by players who are considered subpar or bad defenders.

We'll see how he does against a team that has a lot of good defenders.

[Dejounte]

Wow, he finally had a good game after three embarrassing performances.
Not to mention he's been guarded by players who are considered subpar or bad defenders.

We'll see how he does against a team that has a lot of good defenders.
I hope none of our core ever experience a bad playoff run. My bet is fans here will show their hypocrisy and be way more forgiving.

[Extra Stout]

Coming soon… the Jalen Williams vs. Julius Randle WCF!

[LeBowen]

I hope none of our core ever experience a bad playoff run. My bet is fans here will show their hypocrisy and be way more forgiving.

He was a non-factor against the Mavs last year, which was fine because those were his first playoffs.
Was great in both no-contest first round matchups that felt like regular season games.
He was a negative on the floor during the most of this series. Had a great G3 and did well in today's blowout.

Nuggets have only one good perimeter defender who was always on SGA.
Williams rarely had a positive defender on him, let alone an elite one.
I'm not saying he's going to be bad against the Wolves, but they have Ant/NAW/McDaniels who are all great defenders and Williams won't have the luxury of easy matchups.


Coming soon… the Jalen Williams vs. Julius Randle WCF!

Double standards are just hillarious.
Randle was consistently very good in both series and yet he's still a choker according to some members.
Williams was non-existant in most games and yet people think he's great after one good game in a blowout.

[scott]

I hope none of our core ever experience a bad playoff run. My bet is fans here will show their hypocrisy and be way more forgiving.

Spurs fans: patience for Devin Vassell’s 5 years of mid… but no patience for an All Star having 3 bad playoff games

[exstatic]

He was a non-factor against the Mavs last year, which was fine because those were his first playoffs.
Was great in both no-contest first round matchups that felt like regular season games.
He was a negative on the floor during the most of this series. Had a great G3 and did well in today's blowout.

Nuggets have only one good perimeter defender who was always on SGA.
Williams rarely had a positive defender on him, let alone an elite one.
I'm not saying he's going to be bad against the Wolves, but they have Ant/NAW/McDaniels who are all great defenders and Williams won't have the luxury of easy matchups.



Double standards are just hillarious.
Randle was consistently very good in both series and yet he's still a choker according to some members.
Williams was non-existant in most games and yet people think he's great after one good game in a blowout.

Julius doesn’t have a playoff history like Playoff Jimmy, and since you brought up matchups, he’s played against Shady Acres retirement homes I and II in the first two rounds.

[LeBowen]

Julius doesn’t have a playoff history like Playoff Jimmy

Who said anything about playoff Jimmy? You're so strange.


and since you brought up matchups, he’s played against Shady Acres retirement homes I and II in the first two rounds.

Yeah, go spin the narrative just to suit your agenda.

[RC_Drunkford]

Maybe my post was inarticulate or somewhat muddled.

But the bottom line is -- I think Jalen Williams is fools gold.

If he isn't a part of your plans when you really get good, then he's actually been a negative -- he's just been taking valuable minutes from someone who might.

In the end, you're not left with nothing, you're left with less than nothing.

he's certainly better than Jeremy Sochan, who we picked 3 spots ahead of Jalen Williams

[exstatic]

Who said anything about playoff Jimmy? You're so strange.



Yeah, go spin the narrative just to suit your agenda.

Are you saying that the Lakers and Warriors aren’t old fucks? Because they totally are.

[LeBowen]

Are you saying that the Lakers and Warriors aren’t old fucks? Because they totally are.

Again, what does it have to do with Jimmy?

Lakers and Warriors are old fucks, but that wasn't the narrative before the playoffs.
Randle's matchups were more difficult than Ant's and yet he was the more consistent performer.

[exstatic]

Again, what does it have to do with Jimmy?

Lakers and Warriors are old fucks, but that wasn't the narrative before the playoffs.
Randle's matchups were more difficult than Ant's and yet he was the more consistent performer.

Do you read for comprehension at all? This all revolves back to Julius.

1. He is not Playoff Jimmy, in spite of one or two good series. Some here were lauding his playoff exploits, saying he should be paid or retained based on those performances.

2. Those two good series were played against teams that could not defend him, old guys, just like Jalen Williams played against sub par defenders, as you pointed out. You can see that, but not that Julius got the same edge, based on bad defense.

Did you really buy the NBA pre-playoff hype about the Lakers and Warriors? If so, that’s just sad.

[LeBowen]

1. He is not Playoff Jimmy, in spite of one or two good series. Some here were lauding his playoff exploits, saying he should be paid or retained based on those performances.

I don't care what others said, I never compared him with Jimmy. His 24/6/6 on solid efficency is definitely worth the $30M he has right now, I never said he should get a max extension or whatever you I did.


2. Those two good series were played against teams that could not defend him, old guys, just like Jalen Williams played against sub par defenders, as you pointed out. You can see that, but not that Julius got the same edge, based on bad defense.

Williams played poorly against poor defenders, Randle dominated better defensive setups. Warriors were tragic offensively without Curry, but they still had Draymond/Jimmy on Randle.


Did you really buy the NBA pre-playoff hype about the Lakers and Warriors? If so, that’s just sad.

I predicted the Wolves to make WCF.

[Russ]

he's certainly better than Jeremy Sochan, who we picked 3 spots ahead of Jalen Williams

But is he better than Lonnie Walker who we picked 15 spots ahead of Jalen Brunson?

[Mr. Body]

You guys can't help jerking off over the Thunder you started doing it in the draft threads.

[CGD]

Agree, when you look at Spurs trade situation, this draft might be the time to do a move.

First, after this draft, Spurs will have 1 first round pick per draft:;
2026: Best of Spurs and Hawks
2027: Hawks
2028: Best of Spurs and Celtics (top1 protected)
2029: Spurs
2030: Best of Spurs, Mavs and Wolves (top1 protected)
2031: Best of Spurs and Kings
Great picks quality wise but Spurs war chest is now average quantity wise. Spurs aren't in a situation were they can throw a couple of future first round picks without hurting that future. If Spurs start trading these picks, even with protections, they will lose a lot of flexibility because of the Ted Stepien rule.

Right now, I would put Spurs trade assets in 3 tiers:

- Premium assets: Spurs might only trade some of them for, maybe a top 20 player: Wembanyama, #2, Fox and Castle.

- Assets with some value: #14, Vassell, Sochan and maybe Champagnie.

- Assets with little to no value: second round picks, Keldon and expiring contracts(Barnes, Branham and Wesley).


Spurs don't really have that much to offer in trades. #14 and Vassell might be the only ones that Spurs are willing to offer and that are interesting for other teams. Trade value of #14 will be at its peak on draft night. I'm not sure how Vassell trade value will evolve. Playing more off the ball should help him but he should have less shots per game to put stats and will play out of position at SF.

Excellent post. Makes clear that while we have definitely improved the quality of our singular picks during key Wemby years, we do lack the quantity after the Fox deal. Puts a Giannis deal into perspective, at least for me.

[Mr. Body]

The 14 looks like a good spot. I feel like the draft starts losing steam pretty quickly thereafter, getting closer to 20. There will be good players here or there, but less interesting prospects overall.

Seems like we'll have a pick of these types of players:

Egor Demin
Liam McNeeley
Rasheer Fleming
Carter Bryant

Possibly Thomas Sorber, etc.

These are all pretty good swings. Players with flawed seasons but enough attractive qualities to be happy with the picks. I feel like some drafts are almost drained by the end of the lottery.

[Vienna]

I wonder why the potenial #14 pick is often discussed, as if only a plug in starter would justify using the pick.
if they use the pick at all, whoever will be draftet, he will be drafted based on his potenial and a role he might get in three years.
Vassell and Primo were 20 MPG players and the only reason, why Sochan became a starter immediately, was the fact that it was the worst Spurs roster ever.

so, he will be a project anyway, the fit with the current roster is more or less irrelevant, when talking about depth charts. even if it means, that the player won't see many minutes.
so it's less about fit regarding positions, it will me more about fit regarding abilities. shooting, defense, BBIQ, intangibles.
btw. there will be minutes to get, even if the player is a SF.
Keldon, Champagnie, Harrison and Sochan, that's 100 minutes, we don't know if either will be on the roster and if so, how many minutes the player will get next season.

considering the status as a project, Bryant makes the most sense. Coward checks the most boxes, but Bryant might offer more upside in the long run. McNeeley is the fall back option, if both guys are gone.

[Degoat]

I wonder why the potenial #14 pick is often discussed, as if only a plug in starter would justify using the pick.
if they use the pick at all, whoever will be draftet, he will be drafted based on his potenial and a role he might get in three years.
Vassell and Primo were 20 MPG players and the only reason, why Sochan became a starter immediately, was the fact that it was the worst Spurs roster ever.

so, he will be a project anyway, the fit with the current roster is more or less irrelevant, when talking about depth charts. even if it means, that the player won't see many minutes.
so it's less about fit regarding positions, it will me more about fit regarding abilities. shooting, defense, BBIQ, intangibles.
btw. there will be minutes to get, even if the player is a SF.
Keldon, Champagnie, Harrison and Sochan, that's 100 minutes, we don't know if either will be on the roster and if so, how many minutes the player will get next season.

considering the status as a project, Bryant makes the most sense. Coward checks the most boxes, but Bryant might offer more upside in the long run. McNeeley is the fall back option, if both guys are gone.

Good points, as much as I’d like to see the spurs grab a big to develop, drafting for potential with Carter, Coward, etc would be the route to go. I still anticipate the spurs moving off this pick tho

[RC_Drunkford]

I wonder why the potenial #14 pick is often discussed, as if only a plug in starter would justify using the pick.
if they use the pick at all, whoever will be draftet, he will be drafted based on his potenial and a role he might get in three years.
Vassell and Primo were 20 MPG players and the only reason, why Sochan became a starter immediately, was the fact that it was the worst Spurs roster ever.

so, he will be a project anyway, the fit with the current roster is more or less irrelevant, when talking about depth charts. even if it means, that the player won't see many minutes.
so it's less about fit regarding positions, it will me more about fit regarding abilities. shooting, defense, BBIQ, intangibles.
btw. there will be minutes to get, even if the player is a SF.
Keldon, Champagnie, Harrison and Sochan, that's 100 minutes, we don't know if either will be on the roster and if so, how many minutes the player will get next season.

considering the status as a project, Bryant makes the most sense. Coward checks the most boxes, but Bryant might offer more upside in the long run. McNeeley is the fall back option, if both guys are gone.

Sorber, Bryant and Coward are my top 3 in that range as of now. Sorber could get back up C minutes instantly as well.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/BVmePuCIVaQ?si=nUZbHQ-NFnxR8RLL

[Spurs Brazil]

Today's NBA Mock Draft

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45179882/2025-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-59-picks-post-combine-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

14. San Antonio Spurs (via Atlanta)
Carter Bryant, SF/PF, Arizona
Freshman | TS%: 59.9

Combine measurements:
Height without shoes: 6-6½ | Weight: 214
Standing reach: 8-10 | Wingspan: 6-11¾

Intel and fit: Even before the prospective addition of Harper at No. 2 became plausible, the Spurs needed maximum spacing around Victor Wembanyama and their guards. They should have an opportunity to address that with their second first-round pick. Bryant is a strong fit on paper if he's available at No. 14.

Although his box score production was modest in a supporting role at Arizona, NBA teams have been intrigued all season, drawn to his promising shooting stroke, passing feel and a strong physical frame with similar measurements to Los Angeles Lakers forward Dorian Finney-Smith.

Bryant has room to pack on significant strength that would give him some defensive versatility, as well. As a two-way contributor who won't need on-ball usage to add value, Bryant can slide neatly into the long-term plans for most any team, which could put him in play for teams higher than this. -- Woo

[scott]

I wonder why the potenial #14 pick is often discussed, as if only a plug in starter would justify using the pick.
if they use the pick at all, whoever will be draftet, he will be drafted based on his potenial and a role he might get in three years.
Vassell and Primo were 20 MPG players and the only reason, why Sochan became a starter immediately, was the fact that it was the worst Spurs roster ever.

so, he will be a project anyway, the fit with the current roster is more or less irrelevant, when talking about depth charts. even if it means, that the player won't see many minutes.
so it's less about fit regarding positions, it will me more about fit regarding abilities. shooting, defense, BBIQ, intangibles.
btw. there will be minutes to get, even if the player is a SF.
Keldon, Champagnie, Harrison and Sochan, that's 100 minutes, we don't know if either will be on the roster and if so, how many minutes the player will get next season.

considering the status as a project, Bryant makes the most sense. Coward checks the most boxes, but Bryant might offer more upside in the long run. McNeeley is the fall back option, if both guys are gone.

Nice dose of sanity. Our pick could be #30, and some people would automatically plug them into the starting lineup... they just like shiny new things.

#14 is likely to get the Lonnie/Keldon treatment in year 1 if we actually take someone.

[Mr. Body]

I'd still be disappointed in Carter. Not that it matters if we get Harper. But Carter projects to someday be a project. I just can't get excited over a guy who was trusted to do so little in college.

[cd021]

Today's NBA Mock Draft

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45179882/2025-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-59-picks-post-combine-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

14. San Antonio Spurs (via Atlanta)
Carter Bryant, SF/PF, Arizona
Freshman | TS%: 59.9

Combine measurements:
Height without shoes: 6-6½ | Weight: 214
Standing reach: 8-10 | Wingspan: 6-11¾

Intel and fit: Even before the prospective addition of Harper at No. 2 became plausible, the Spurs needed maximum spacing around Victor Wembanyama and their guards. They should have an opportunity to address that with their second first-round pick. Bryant is a strong fit on paper if he's available at No. 14.

Although his box score production was modest in a supporting role at Arizona, NBA teams have been intrigued all season, drawn to his promising shooting stroke, passing feel and a strong physical frame with similar measurements to Los Angeles Lakers forward Dorian Finney-Smith.

Bryant has room to pack on significant strength that would give him some defensive versatility, as well. As a two-way contributor who won't need on-ball usage to add value, Bryant can slide neatly into the long-term plans for most any team, which could put him in play for teams higher than this. -- Woo

He might be the safe pick as a three-and-d wing who may be able to do more with the ball in his hands than given credit for. Him actually already being a good shooter definitely helps his case.

[cd021]

Sorber, Bryant and Coward are my top 3 in that range as of now. Sorber could get back up C minutes instantly as well.

I've been really impressed by what I've seen from Sorber. Looks really good on both sides of the ball. Great finisher around the rim on offense. On defense, terrific defensive metrics and seems to use his length to force turnovers and force players to shoot over him in the paint.

Doesn't project to be a stretch five but I think he could absolutely contribute next season.

[PhantomDashCam]

1924502001574182990


Who Else Measured Up (Or Didn’t)?

There were some question marks from the first group. Maluach’s footspeed got the best of him in the pro lane drill where he had to restart and go through it six different times due to hitting the cones on the corner.
The biggest surprise was Queen’s shooting mechanics. His shot looks altered from the season and a bit more like a hitch or slingshot. He takes a while to gather and get in his shooting pocket and it doesn’t look fluid. One of the coaches at his basket was even trying to give him some last minute tips before he started his drills.





What Big-Name Freshmen Are Staying in the Draft?

Arizona’s Carter Bryant and North Carolina’s Drake Powell said they were definitely staying in the draft last week despite mediocre freshmen seasons. Bryant passes the eye test with great size and length at 6-foot-8 and a promising jumper that extends past the three-point line. The feedback from around the league is that he interviewed very well over the course of three days and is a player teams feel like they can bring in and mold under their coaching staff and system and build off the tools he already has. Bryant only averaged 6.5 points and 4.1 rebounds in 19.3 minutes at Arizona.
Powell is another player a team might take a swing on in the back half of the first round. His athleticism is off the charts and what he showed as a defender in high school still sticks with scouts even after his quiet year at North Carolina. Each year we see players picked on potential and upside alone. Carter and Powell could be those two prospects this year.

[CGD]

I wonder why the potenial #14 pick is often discussed, as if only a plug in starter would justify using the pick.
if they use the pick at all, whoever will be draftet, he will be drafted based on his potenial and a role he might get in three years.
Vassell and Primo were 20 MPG players and the only reason, why Sochan became a starter immediately, was the fact that it was the worst Spurs roster ever.

so, he will be a project anyway, the fit with the current roster is more or less irrelevant, when talking about depth charts. even if it means, that the player won't see many minutes.
so it's less about fit regarding positions, it will me more about fit regarding abilities. shooting, defense, BBIQ, intangibles.
btw. there will be minutes to get, even if the player is a SF.
Keldon, Champagnie, Harrison and Sochan, that's 100 minutes, we don't know if either will be on the roster and if so, how many minutes the player will get next season.

considering the status as a project, Bryant makes the most sense. Coward checks the most boxes, but Bryant might offer more upside in the long run. McNeeley is the fall back option, if both guys are gone.

This is the case of Essengue tbh

[Davidicus]

https://youtu.be/FDNtFQ0y9WI?si=IHMzK0zUcXHhL-yM

I love this guy’s videos and he just dropped a Fleming one, post-combine.

7’5” wingspan would put him at the 25th largest wingspan in the NBA, all true Centers in front of him.

I still have Fleming and Bryant as my top choices at 14, would be extremely happy with either.

[BackHome]

Flemings reminds me a lot of Precious Achiuwa

[ace3g]

DJ44LZvPyKb

[scott]

Jumper looks smooth... but he looks a bit stiff to me?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

DJ44LZvPyKb

Fleming is my dream pick at #14. I cannot get enough of him.

He checks so many boxes: defend post; defend perimeter; rebound; Shoot 3s; attach close-outs; run fast-break with our guards; can play 4 and 5 and some 3.

He is a role player in college; Will be used a role player in NBA. Easier transition.

I especially like this quiet, down-to-earth manner, and yet competitive nature.

Yes he lacks facilitating. But I don't see why we need that thing since we have so many facilitators.

[DPG21920]

There are so many players if SA sticks at 14 that I would be happy with on paper. Legit on paper seems like a deep draft.

I would still love SA to move up and get Harper + Kon

[sfernald]

I have my hopes set on Carter/Essengue/Coward @ #14

I love Carter’s athleticism and his shot is pure. I think his comp is Trever Ariza the perfect champanionship role player.

Essengue I think has the most potential of all but is raw. If we decide we want our identity to be a transition focused team, imagine our three guard lineup of fox, Harper and castle racing out to lob to our finishers Wemby & Essengue.

Coward is that empanada that looks delicious but you have no idea what meat is inside it. Why not try it and find out?

[BackHome]

As my old man used to tell my mom “You can’t make everyone Happy your Not a Empanada”. Lol

[benefactor]

There are so many players if SA sticks at 14 that I would be happy with on paper. Legit on paper seems like a deep draft.

I would still love SA to move up and get Harper + Kon
Kon and Harper out of this draft would be awesome. Kon would be excellent as 6th man of the future with his shooting and his ability to run an offense.

[Guru of Nothing]

Kind of curious what trade up opportunities from the 14 might exist. Sure we can throw in Vassell, but I sense demand is not high.

What are the expectations from Atlanta in 2026? Wondering is they'd give us this years 13 pick in exchange for removing swap rights on 2026, but really only if the 13 could be packaged with the 14 to move up. ...think of it as a gateway drug to tanking. We give them back control of their 2026 draft, and maybe the sweet taste of tanking overwhelms their senses and we strike gold in 2027.

[mo7888]

Kind of curious what trade up opportunities from the 14 might exist. Sure we can throw in Vassell, but I sense demand is not high.

What are the expectations from Atlanta in 2026? Wondering is they'd give us this years 13 pick in exchange for removing swap rights on 2026, but really only if the 13 could be packaged with the 14 to move up. ...think of it as a gateway drug to tanking. We give them back control of their 2026 draft, and maybe the sweet taste of tanking overwhelms their senses and we strike gold in 2027.

I doubt there are any trade up scenarios using just Devin + 14, but if there are id say the best chance is picks 7,8,9, and 11..

[Eaglenole2002]

Fleming is my dream pick at #14. I cannot get enough of him.

He checks so many boxes: defend post; defend perimeter; rebound; Shoot 3s; attach close-outs; run fast-break with our guards; can play 4 and 5 and some 3.

He is a role player in college; Will be used a role player in NBA. Easier transition.

I especially like this quiet, down-to-earth manner, and yet competitive nature.

Yes he lacks facilitating. But I don't see why we need that thing since we have so many facilitators.

Bingo. We have so much facilitating between Wemby, Fox, Castle and (hopefully) Harper that we don’t need a whole lot of creation. We seriously could use a long 4 who can knock down shots and defend at a high level. I don’t know if Fleming’s three ball is legit, but if they believe in it, he’s a no-brainer at 14.

In an ideal world, we’d try to build a defensive monster with Wemby as the ultimate eraser. Fleming certainly has the chops. Sochan has the ability. Castle should be pretty good without having to waste energy dominating the ball on offense. That got me thinking that maybe Fox and Harper can find another level defensively since they won’t be expected to carry the offensive burden (once everyone has found their footing).

[spurraider21]

spurs center draft strategy discussed at 45:47


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFIyunZwJ6Y&t=5384s

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Bingo. We have so much facilitating between Wemby, Fox, Castle and (hopefully) Harper that we don’t need a whole lot of creation. We seriously could use a long 4 who can knock down shots and defend at a high level. I don’t know if Fleming’s three ball is legit, but if they believe in it, he’s a no-brainer at 14.

In an ideal world, we’d try to build a defensive monster with Wemby as the ultimate eraser. Fleming certainly has the chops. Sochan has the ability. Castle should be pretty good without having to waste energy dominating the ball on offense. That got me thinking that maybe Fox and Harper can find another level defensively since they won’t be expected to carry the offensive burden (once everyone has found their footing).

What you described could all happen because of the reasons you mentioned.

Gooding thing of Fleming is, even if his 3-point shot doesn't transfer, he can still be a valuable role player. Picking him at #14 is not a reach even if he is out #7 or #8 man.

But his 3-point shot has as good a chance as transferring to NBA as anyone, because his releasing point is so high.

Plus, he made many 3s with a hand on his face, reminding me of Kobe.

[scott]

I doubt there are any trade up scenarios using just Devin + 14, but if there are id say the best chance is picks 7,8,9, and 11..

NOP at 7 and HOU at 10 seem like the only spots for even an outside realistic shot to move up with Vassell

NOP should be targeting Fears or Jaku, IMO, but they've been rumored to be interested in Kon. Maybe there is an outside shot NOP wants to push for the playoffs (they've got the talent, don't need to tank) and they'd be interested in a "proven" NBA shooter in Vassell (if we could call him that) and would do 7 and 14 for Devin... but I really highly doubt it. They'd probably rather just have the cheaper Kon at 7.

Houston likewise could likely use Jaku but they need shooting too. But I don't see a trade between us and Houston materializing.

I can't really see any other team in the lotto that would even have an interest in Devin, aside from ATL, who isn't taking our calls anyway.

[DPG21920]

NOP at 7 and HOU at 10 seem like the only spots for even an outside realistic shot to move up with Vassell

NOP should be targeting Fears or Jaku, IMO, but they've been rumored to be interested in Kon. Maybe there is an outside shot NOP wants to push for the playoffs (they've got the talent, don't need to tank) and they'd be interested in a "proven" NBA shooter in Vassell (if we could call him that) and would do 7 and 14 for Devin... but I really highly doubt it. They'd probably rather just have the cheaper Kon at 7.

Houston likewise could likely use Jaku but they need shooting too. But I don't see a trade between us and Houston materializing.

I can't really see any other team in the lotto that would even have an interest in Devin, aside from ATL, who isn't taking our calls anyway.

I’d be open to using 14 + a future first IF Spurs value Kon that highly. So doesnt have to be Dev. I just like Kon a lot personally

[mystargtr34]

Honestly if Harpers catch and shoot 3 point shooting of 38% is legit, and the spurs draft Fleming as their 4, you could almost start Sochan at the 3 for his defense and bring Castle off the bench. That team would be a defensive monster with Wemby-Fleming-Sochan.

Imagine a Wemby-Fleming-Sochan-Castle-Harper/Fox lineup defensively. Would wreak havoc.

[sfernald]

Honestly if Harpers catch and shoot 3 point shooting of 38% is legit, and the spurs draft Fleming as their 4, you could almost start Sochan at the 3 for his defense and bring Castle off the bench. That team would be a defensive monster with Wemby-Fleming-Sochan.

Imagine a Wemby-Fleming-Sochan-Castle-Harper/Fox lineup defensively. Would wreak havoc.

There’s something I don’t like about Fleming. Seems too stiff or something in his gait. Too limited offensively. Def not a dribble pass shoot kind of guy. Slow processor. Jump shot doesn’t seem legit to me either. Don’t think he’ll pan out. Not worth the risk at #14 to me.

[Guru of Nothing]

Fleming fever fading fersure.

[mo7888]

NOP at 7 and HOU at 10 seem like the only spots for even an outside realistic shot to move up with Vassell

NOP should be targeting Fears or Jaku, IMO, but they've been rumored to be interested in Kon. Maybe there is an outside shot NOP wants to push for the playoffs (they've got the talent, don't need to tank) and they'd be interested in a "proven" NBA shooter in Vassell (if we could call him that) and would do 7 and 14 for Devin... but I really highly doubt it. They'd probably rather just have the cheaper Kon at 7.

Houston likewise could likely use Jaku but they need shooting too. But I don't see a trade between us and Houston materializing.

I can't really see any other team in the lotto that would even have an interest in Devin, aside from ATL, who isn't taking our calls anyway.

That could be. Like I said, I doubt there are any trades like that out there, but these are the only ones I see as having a slight chance depending on what these teams' timelines are. I discounted Houston because I just don't think we'd deal with them. The teams I listed have one thing in common, they may be ready to shorten their timelines and starting playing to compete for a play-in or playoff spot now.

[CGD]

As my old man used to tell my mom “You can’t make everyone Happy your Not a Empanada”. Lol

Glorious

[PhantomDashCam]

There’s something I don’t like about Fleming. Seems too stiff or something in his gait. Too limited offensively. Def not a dribble pass shoot kind of guy. Slow processor. Jump shot doesn’t seem legit to me either. Don’t think he’ll pan out. Not worth the risk at #14 to me.

Vecenie has the exact same concerns you mentioned so you’re definitely in good company.
I do hope the Spurs bring him in for a workout though.
With likely another ball dominant guard coming in (Harper), a 3-D wing with limited Offensive responsibilities would be ideal.

My big Qs about Fleming:

1. Is he a 4/3 or 4/5 predominantly? Vecenie’s convinced it’s the latter, which itself is not without value to this team.
2. Is the Spot-up shooting legit?
3. Does he process the game fast enough on the Defensive end?

[CGD]

There’s something I don’t like about Fleming. Seems too stiff or something in his gait. Too limited offensively. Def not a dribble pass shoot kind of guy. Slow processor. Jump shot doesn’t seem legit to me either. Don’t think he’ll pan out. Not worth the risk at #14 to me.

For me, Vecine who I really like on this stuff, is pretty low on Fleming citing his issues processing the game. That isnt great to hear about an athlete who is straight out of central casting for the prototypical 3/D wing.

[Arguendo]

considering the circumstances I'm meanwhile 99% sure Spurs will trade the pick. It just doesn't make sense to keep it at this point.
...

so, if they trade the #14 pick for a veteran, they want at least a player, who could be part of the starting line up.

...

what is the package? #14 and Vassell for PJ and Gafford?

another player, who might be intriguing is Toumani Camara. Spurs might not want to give the #14 pick for him though. but maybe a package? or, what if they ask for Avdija plus Camara? what is the price? #14, a future 1st, Sochan, Keldon?

Rotation of Fox/Harper/Castle/Barnes/Wemby + Vassell/Sochan/Keldon/Champ + Welsey and Bran deep and 4 roster spots to fill. I know the hate here for Dev/Jeremy/Keldon is strong, but they are very solid 6-8 guys, Champ is a great 9th man. We have $14-15M MLE and the $5Mish Bi-annual exception.

There's not much money to throw around this summer, Wemby/Fox, a clear role, and no state income tax is a pretty solid selling point to take a discount. Barnes + the '22 draft guys and Champ are expirings/RFAs/non-guaranteed. Still have a lot of 2nds.
We have lots of flexibility to upgrade without moving the #14, or to trade down with the #38 to like 17 + 31 with Minny or 19 + 27 with Bkn.

Adams, Lopez, Capela, even Horford (and Kornet) are all UFAs at C. LaRavia, DFS, Yabusele, Nance Jr, Tauren Prince would all fit nicely. Aldama could be a super interesting RFA (JJJ, Edey, GG II coming back, can't pay LaRavia & Aldama + Kennard). Vukcevic got Sarr'd and could be a very cheap, very interesting gamble. Maybe nothing too exciting, but lots of likely cheap, quality bench 4/5s. Point being, cheap quality rotation guys that fit our needs are gettable for cash and we're a situation a backup 4/5 would look at very closely, especially with Barnes and Sochan potentially gone next yr.

Love your first proposal, but would Dallas even listen? That deal doesn't save them money, it takes on 4 yrs of Vassels money without filling a need. It leaves AD/Flagg/Lively as they're only NBA bigs, AD is a glass cannon/Lively may be one too. & They'd still need a starting PG for next yr. Would you trade the #14 plus matching salary (Sochan + Wes, both would fill a need on their team) for just one as an expiring? I'd do it for PJ if he signs a team friendly extension, but not for Gaff.

Likewise would love Camara, great fit, love his game. Ditto love Avdija, but you realizes he's on one of the best contracts ($39.4M for 3yrs and declining yearly) and younger than Camara? No way they trade both, much less take back worse players and more money (don't think the numbers work either). Avdija will cost a ransom. Camara (and his $4.5M/2 yrs) for the #14 is prolly what it would take. #14 seems high, but he's young and cheap and there are a lot of teams that'd be interested. I'd consider that, but that's steep.

I'd rather roll the dice, ideally trade down, keep building the stockpile for the perfect fit, get some stop-gaps role players (or throw money at Aldama, he would be an awesome fit and he younger than Camara) and see if Fleming is Naz 2.0 with better mobility plus a Wolf or Raynaud or Sorber. Or use the extra pick + 2nds and redemption expirings (Sochan/Wes/Bran) to trade for John Collins (but not sure Utah would value the #27 or #31 and he's an expiring and he's a quality player).

[Eaglenole2002]

Vecenie has the exact same concerns you mentioned so you’re definitely in good company.
I do hope the Spurs bring him in for a workout though.
With likely another ball dominant guard coming in (Harper), a 3-D wing with limited Offensive responsibilities would be ideal.

My big Qs about Fleming:

1. Is he a 4/3 or 4/5 predominantly? Vecenie’s convinced it’s the latter, which itself is not without value to this team.
2. Is the Spot-up shooting legit?
3. Does he process the game fast enough on the Defensive end?

Interesting. I guess when I heard him question the processing I thought he meant offensively. I guess I wasn’t listening closely enough.

[Arguendo]

For me, Vecine who I really like on this stuff, is pretty low on Fleming citing his issues processing the game. That isnt great to hear about an athlete who is straight out of central casting for the prototypical 3/D wing.
Same on Vecenie, I trust his takes. Hadn't heard his on Fleming that's...concerning. I have more faith in developing someone's shot then their processing. Ugh

[Arguendo]

He kind of shits the bed after the first round, though. Second year I narrow, and OKC is kind of winning in spite of him, not because of him. This series should be over,not going to game 7.

If he makes 3rd team All NBA, he can thank Wemby’s blood clot, and it will also fuck up OKC’s cap, because that makes him SuperMax eligible.
His shooting has definitely shit the bed in 5 or 6 of his 13 2nd rd games. But his D has been there and avg 6 rebs/6ast/1.5stls and almost a block w/1.5TOs. He was 22 in his first POs last yr, 23 now and showed up Game 7.

I don't think its at all fair to say they're winning in spite of him. They got beaten by a Luka on a mission last yr and beat a Joker on a mission in 7.
No shame in going 7 against the Joker in his Prime and Gordon playing like he was.
I'd say this is much more likely sample size, but outside of his shooting, he's been damn good.

And I'm hoping for that SuperMax, that might be biasing my opinion:lol

[scott]

That could be. Like I said, I doubt there are any trades like that out there, but these are the only ones I see as having a slight chance depending on what these teams' timelines are. I discounted Houston because I just don't think we'd deal with them. The teams I listed have one thing in common, they may be ready to shorten their timelines and starting playing to compete for a play-in or playoff spot now.

Yeah I think we are aligned on what conditions need to exist for a team to have interest in Devin. I could see BKN if they made some other significant moves (like getting Giannis). I discounted TOR because they already have a ton of guys in a similar tier as Devin... how many mid #2 options can a single team need? But maybe they package them all up for someone else and need to replenish? Portland I could see wanting to accelerate things, but I don't see them prioritizing Devin over Sharpe.

[scott]

Likewise would love Camara, great fit, love his game. Ditto love Avdija, but you realizes he's on one of the best contracts ($39.4M for 3yrs and declining yearly) and younger than Camara? No way they trade both, much less take back worse players and more money (don't think the numbers work either). Avdija will cost a ransom. Camara (and his $4.5M/2 yrs) for the #14 is prolly what it would take. #14 seems high, but he's young and cheap and there are a lot of teams that'd be interested. I'd consider that, but that's steep.



I'd do #14 for Camara in a heartbeat, interesting that you think it might be too steep. I think POR likely laughs and hangs up the phone. Strong chance he makes an All Defensive team, and he's a 38% 3P shooter on what amounts to a minimum deal. I feel like he'd be pretty untouchable for POR.

[mo7888]

Yeah I think we are aligned on what conditions need to exist for a team to have interest in Devin. I could see BKN if they made some other significant moves (like getting Giannis). I discounted TOR because they already have a ton of guys in a similar tier as Devin... how many mid #2 options can a single team need? But maybe they package them all up for someone else and need to replenish? Portland I could see wanting to accelerate things, but I don't see them prioritizing Devin over Sharpe.

On Toronto, I was kinda looking at them the same as you described Brooklyn because they are a team that can make a competitive Giannis trade and might want to pair him with Devin. It's a long shot, though...

[Dejounte]

Same on Vecenie, I trust his takes. Hadn't heard his on Fleming that's...concerning. I have more faith in developing someone's shot then their processing. Ugh

to be fair, i don’t think carter bryant’s processing speed is that great either

[ginobilized]

I'm thinking that Raynaud, Bryant, Coward, Essengue, and maybe Sorber will be in the mix at 14 for the Spurs.
Unfortunately, I think the Hawks and Spurs might be looking for similar types of players. There could be a lot of trades and surprises as the draft unfolds.

[ambchang]

If the spurs are actually looking to draft three players this draft and do not have anyone they really want at 14. they can look into trading #14 and 38 with the nets for 19 and 26.

Nets can just not draft anyone at 38 or sell it, with no hits to the cap, spurs moves up 12 spots on one pick while moving back 5 on the other.

[spurraider21]

i never saw fleming as a wing. he's pretty squarely a 4 who can play some small 5 minutes. and i think thats a big need

anybody who liked him because of the expectation that he would handle the ball or chase around smaller perimeter guys was barking up the wrong tree. he can defend any NBA 4 and he can slide down and defend some 3's as well.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1925230356011073537

[scott]

i never saw fleming as a wing. he's pretty squarely a 4 who can play some small 5 minutes. and i think thats a big need

anybody who liked him because of the expectation that he would handle the ball or chase around smaller perimeter guys was barking up the wrong tree. he can defend any NBA 4 and he can slide down and defend some 3's as well.

And it's not like we want/need our 4 to be handling the ball and going perimeter ISO anyway. Offensively, we really just need someone to basically be Barnes: be in the right spot to shoot some 3s, make smart cuts to the basket when their man gets distracted.

[Arguendo]

I'd do #14 for Camara in a heartbeat, interesting that you think it might be too steep. I think POR likely laughs and hangs up the phone. Strong chance he makes an All Defensive team, and he's a 38% 3P shooter on what amounts to a minimum deal. I feel like he'd be pretty untouchable for POR.

Its the full context and opportunity cost. I'd consider it depending on other moves/plans, but its not a slam dunk. I like cost control/asset acquisition, organic growth/chemistry/cohesion until we prove ourselves, know exactly what we need. The best way to improve the roster/talent is developing our own guys, especially late 1st and 2nds and undrafted guys, not trading asset for asset while suppressing the value of another asset that is depressed. I like buying distressed assets you see value in. I see lots of value in Sochan as a distressed asset, so I don't want to sale him at a distressed price/but I'd love to buy him cheap. I don't like buying peak value, which Camara may be.

Camara would pretty much end any chance Sochan has to take the next step/recoup value in SA. I know everyone here is pretty much wholly biased against even the possibility that any Spurs player thats not a ROY could still develop after the age of 21, but it not only happens, that's f-ing Camara:
Camara @ 18 in HS Sochan .47/.30/.59 In Big12
@19 .49/.17/.63 in SEC Sochan .45/.24/.70 in NBA
@ 20 .48/.26/.62 in SEC Sochan .44/.31/.78 in NBA
@ 21 .51/.34/.59 in A10 Sochan .54/.31/.70 in NBA
@ 22 .55/.36/.67 in A10 well'll see...
@ 23 .45/.34/.76 NBA
@ 24 .46/.375/.72

Camara was honing his skills in the A-10 against guys that can't make the Gleague while Jeremy was being asked to guard Luka/SGA/monster of the week and playing 4 (f-ing Point4 for almost 1/4 a season) in the NBA.
Is Camara's shooting is legit? Maybe he's a 37+% shooter or maybe he regresses. He definitely developed his shoot, good volume last yr, but 2 bad games knocks him down to a 36.1% (5 more misses) or sub 35% guy (10 more) and no one thinks its a slam dunk for #14.

Camara =lots of opportunity costs beyond the #14th, likely death kneel for Sochan's value in SA. There PT is mutually exclusive, won't really play together barring trade/injury.

I'd rather have Bryant (maybe he turns into a better defending Trey Murphy or beyond= huge ceiling) + Aldama+ Sochan being able to play next to Aldama, for example. I'd much prefer a vet 4/5 stretch guy, than Camara.

Way I see it, Spurs have done every disserve to Sochan's development. Maybe he never turns the shooting corner, but his situation has been f-ed.
19y/o =Total garbage/no structure team. 20= same garbage but a 19y/o Wemby but still no structure/no plays + PG experiment to start the yr. 21 focused on what he's good at/limiting 3s and boarding down w/ cuts and putbacks 71% at the rim. Fluke thumb injury but still hits 34% pre-AS in Jan/Feb hitting 42% of his 3s in 18 games, then Wemby/Fox-less March and April shut-down with an Interim coach and back spasms.
IMO Sochan's likely trade value (and hopefully extension value) are pretty highly distressed. He's younger today than several bigs people want to draft (Raynaud, Lendeborg, Kalk, Broome) only 1 yr older than Fleming and Wolf. 3 year vet whose happy to play a role and good for team cohesion/chemistry.


The cynics here would love dumping Sochan for a roster spot. Yes, we need 3% shooting but we also need O-bounds and glue guys and happy role players w/ 2 All-stars and 2 potential All-stars leading the way. Tamara may be all of that, but I don't think his a big enough upgrade over Sochan factoring in all costs and context. I'm confident Sochan will be a NBA role player for yrs whether the shot develops or not, his boarding/D/connection/willingness to do what's asked will get him at least 18-20mpg for someone for at least 2 more contracts. Basically I don't want to move off him at his current value. He's likely to play a lot with Vassell and Champ who will takes tons of 3s, he can board/cut/put-back. I think that's a valuable role and I think he can thrive, up his value and look incredibly enticing entering his 23 y/o season.
To me, Camara is not a difference maker. He's a really nice role player who fits better than Sochan currently, but if he costs #14 while killing Sochan's value and prevents us from getting any of LaRavia, DFS, Yabusele, Nance Jr, or Tauren Prince at the right price or please god Aldama, that price is too high for me. I think its much more likely Camara's value has near peaked while Sochan's has not. Sochan will be entering his 4th yr, Camara was entering his senior season at Dayton at this age.

And I want Bryant and I think many of those UFA 4s will come cheap. That's may reasoning. Still love Camara, wish we could find one like him in the 2nd, but #14 is steep considering everything imo.

[spurraider21]

And it's not like we want/need our 4 to be handling the ball and going perimeter ISO anyway. Offensively, we really just need someone to basically be Barnes: be in the right spot to shoot some 3s, make smart cuts to the basket when their man gets distracted.
its never bad to be able to put the ball on the floor. we've seen Barnes not only be a floor spacer, but he was also able to put the ball, get to the paint, and get some good ole YMCA style buckets for us when needed

but on the flipside with Fleming you are getting a better athlete, a much stronger rebounder, and some rim deterrence deterrence

[Arguendo]

to be fair, i don’t think carter bryant’s processing speed is that great either
I was thinking about this last night watching OKC/Pups...in this context we're talking about O processing speed right? Ability to read the D, make the pass/cut/shoot?
Because it seems to me on D, its less processing vs awareness and instinct. Fleming project as a 3/D spot-up and finisher on O. For putbacks and spot-ups processing is pretty low on the list of priorities.
Carter has a much higher ceiling, younger, but at Zona is role was D and mostly spot-ups against much stiffer competition in Big12, and Fresh vs Jr so I'm more forgiving to him.
At #14, i want 3/D/Reb potential, I think both offer that. But I'm damn intrigued by Wolf, fine with McNeeley, interested in Sorber for longer term and clear need.

[Arguendo]

i never saw fleming as a wing. he's pretty squarely a 4 who can play some small 5 minutes. and i think thats a big need

anybody who liked him because of the expectation that he would handle the ball or chase around smaller perimeter guys was barking up the wrong tree. he can defend any NBA 4 and he can slide down and defend some 3's as well.
Think to idea is enough athlete/quickness/length to competently handle wings on perimeter and prolly big guards and bigs on d at 230.
Same length as Naz but 20lbs lighter, more mobile, quicker. Spot-up 3 and finisher on O. Positionless big, one of the top athletes in draft plus the frame and can shoot and board and D.

Same lane agility time as Fears/better than Harper/Bailey/Bryant/Edgecombe. The only lottery guard with better agility was Johnson. Second best shuttle run in the class. Bottom half of the class in sprint and leaps (but WS making up lots of that leaping different, he was good enough to get high enough). Very, very quick and agile for someone his size, but not especially fast or explosive in testing.
Seems like he'll be able to switch onto most guard just fine, but not chase them around.

[scott]

Its the full context and opportunity cost. I'd consider it depending on other moves/plans, but its not a slam dunk. I like cost control/asset acquisition, organic growth/chemistry/cohesion until we prove ourselves, know exactly what we need. The best way to improve the roster/talent is developing our own guys, especially late 1st and 2nds and undrafted guys, not trading asset for asset while suppressing the value of another asset that is depressed. I like buying distressed assets you see value in. I see lots of value in Sochan as a distressed asset, so I don't want to sale him at a distressed price/but I'd love to buy him cheap. I don't like buying peak value, which Camara may be.

Camara would pretty much end any chance Sochan has to take the next step/recoup value in SA. I know everyone here is pretty much wholly biased against even the possibility that any Spurs player thats not a ROY could still develop after the age of 21, but it not only happens, that's f-ing Camara:
Camara @ 18 in HS Sochan .47/.30/.59 In Big12
@19 .49/.17/.63 in SEC Sochan .45/.24/.70 in NBA
@ 20 .48/.26/.62 in SEC Sochan .44/.31/.78 in NBA
@ 21 .51/.34/.59 in A10 Sochan .54/.31/.70 in NBA
@ 22 .55/.36/.67 in A10 well'll see...
@ 23 .45/.34/.76 NBA
@ 24 .46/.375/.72

Camara was honing his skills in the A-10 against guys that can't make the Gleague while Jeremy was being asked to guard Luka/SGA/monster of the week and playing 4 (f-ing Point4 for almost 1/4 a season) in the NBA.
Is Camara's shooting is legit? Maybe he's a 37+% shooter or maybe he regresses. He definitely developed his shoot, good volume last yr, but 2 bad games knocks him down to a 36.1% (5 more misses) or sub 35% guy (10 more) and no one thinks its a slam dunk for #14.

Camara =lots of opportunity costs beyond the #14th, likely death kneel for Sochan's value in SA. There PT is mutually exclusive, won't really play together barring trade/injury.

I'd rather have Bryant (maybe he turns into a better defending Trey Murphy or beyond= huge ceiling) + Aldama+ Sochan being able to play next to Aldama, for example. I'd much prefer a vet 4/5 stretch guy, than Camara.

Way I see it, Spurs have done every disserve to Sochan's development. Maybe he never turns the shooting corner, but his situation has been f-ed.
19y/o =Total garbage/no structure team. 20= same garbage but a 19y/o Wemby but still no structure/no plays + PG experiment to start the yr. 21 focused on what he's good at/limiting 3s and boarding down w/ cuts and putbacks 71% at the rim. Fluke thumb injury but still hits 34% pre-AS in Jan/Feb hitting 42% of his 3s in 18 games, then Wemby/Fox-less March and April shut-down with an Interim coach and back spasms.
IMO Sochan's likely trade value (and hopefully extension value) are pretty highly distressed. He's younger today than several bigs people want to draft (Raynaud, Lendeborg, Kalk, Broome) only 1 yr older than Fleming and Wolf. 3 year vet whose happy to play a role and good for team cohesion/chemistry.


The cynics here would love dumping Sochan for a roster spot. Yes, we need 3% shooting but we also need O-bounds and glue guys and happy role players w/ 2 All-stars and 2 potential All-stars leading the way. Tamara may be all of that, but I don't think his a big enough upgrade over Sochan factoring in all costs and context. I'm confident Sochan will be a NBA role player for yrs whether the shot develops or not, his boarding/D/connection/willingness to do what's asked will get him at least 18-20mpg for someone for at least 2 more contracts. Basically I don't want to move off him at his current value. He's likely to play a lot with Vassell and Champ who will takes tons of 3s, he can board/cut/put-back. I think that's a valuable role and I think he can thrive, up his value and look incredibly enticing entering his 23 y/o season.
To me, Camara is not a difference maker. He's a really nice role player who fits better than Sochan currently, but if he costs #14 while killing Sochan's value and prevents us from getting any of LaRavia, DFS, Yabusele, Nance Jr, or Tauren Prince at the right price or please god Aldama, that price is too high for me. I think its much more likely Camara's value has near peaked while Sochan's has not. Sochan will be entering his 4th yr, Camara was entering his senior season at Dayton at this age.

And I want Bryant and I think many of those UFA 4s will come cheap. That's may reasoning. Still love Camara, wish we could find one like him in the 2nd, but #14 is steep considering everything imo.

Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

With that said, I can't get on board with the idea of passing up good players because of how it will impact someone like Sochan (and I'm not picking on Sochan, but he's the guy you used in your example). If Sochan's trajectory is thrown off because he's behind Camara, that's Jeremy Sochan's problem and he should have simply been better.

To me, it all comes down to one's evaluation of Camara. If you think his shooting is real and you buy his defense (which to me, that's the thing to buy in on), then you go get him if you can at an affordable price. #14 would definitely be worth it to me, as the expected median value of a #14 pick generally isn't as high as what Camara is showing today. I'm not passing up on Camara so that I can hope Jeremy Sochan learns to shoot and develops into... well, Toumani Camara. If you think #14 is too high for what Camara is, then you pass. But nowhere does Jeremy Sochan come into the analysis. Sochan hasn't shown enough of anything to alter our talent acquisition strategy.

It's up to each of these players to earn it, Sochan included. If bringing in Camara is a death knell for Sochan's value... then Sochan wasn't good enough and no tears should be shed.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fleming is an offball player who can play PF and smallball C. He can seem flatfooted at times, but makes up for it with his insane wingspan. His defense and shotmaking should translate, simply because of his length and athleticism. He's not an off the dribble shooter and is sometimes out of position on defense. He can make basic reads on offense, but is not an elite playmaker and also doesn't have a midrange game.

Simply said: He's a high floor, low ceiling 3-and-D forward, which is perfectly fine. He'll be a nice role player, but won't turn into OG Anounoby.


Carter Bryant is a low ceiling, high floor prospect. He's the type of guy who you'd have to put in the G-League for 2 seasons, before you can put him into the rotation. A lot of people wanted to see him play more minutes in college, but his coach prefered to play veterans.

So he could be out of the league in a few years or turn into prime Rudy Gay.


Given that I'd prefer to draft somebody who can be part of the rotation while on a rookie deal, I think I would go with Cedric Coward. He's an SG/SF and 21 years old, but his game is the most polished and his athleticism is insane. He's a VJ Edgecombe level athlete with an insane vertical in a Herb Jones type of body. 6'6'' with a 7'2'' wingspan and he shoots lights out (39.4/38.3/40% from 3 in 3 seasons).

The only flaws you could mention is that he didn't play against elite competition in college and only played 6 games last season, because of an injury. His stats were quite similar to this years last season though.

He can drive, shoot off the dribble, has a midrange game and can even post up smaller defenders. Given his physical tools his game should translate easily, because he'll have an athletic advantage over most players. I don't think he slips past OKC at #15. That's exactly the type of wing they draft all the time. He also draws a lot of nephew comparisons, because he has huge hands and teams loved his interviews. Btw averaged 7 boards per game in college.

If you replace Keldon with him we should get better on both ends and you save 13 million.

[bluebellmaniac]

If the spurs are actually looking to draft three players this draft and do not have anyone they really want at 14. they can look into trading #14 and 38 with the nets for 19 and 26.

Nets can just not draft anyone at 38 or sell it, with no hits to the cap, spurs moves up 12 spots on one pick while moving back 5 on the other.

This

[LeBowen]

Fleming is an offball player who can play PF and smallball C. He can seem flatfooted at times, but makes up for it with his insane wingspan. His defense and shotmaking should translate, simply because of his length and athleticism. He's not an off the dribble shooter and is sometimes out of position on defense. He can make basic reads on offense, but is not an elite playmaker and also doesn't have a midrange game.

Simply said: He's a high floor, low ceiling 3-and-D forward, which is perfectly fine. He'll be a nice role player, but won't turn into OG Anounoby.

The question is, do we even need those things he can't do?
I'd personally kill for a McDaniels type wing, that's what we need.

We're most likely going with three guards thing, Wemby will also have his fair share of the ball, we don't really care about handling or playmaking skills of our PF.
All we need him to do on offense is shoot, cut, crash the glass and maybe have a solid catch and drive game for aggressive closeouts.

This applies to every wing we're looking at, not just Fleming.

[RC_Drunkford]

The question is, do we even need those things he can't do?
I'd personally kill for a McDaniels type wing, that's what we need.

We're most likely going with three guards thing, Wemby will also have his fair share of the ball, we don't really care about handling or playmaking skills of our PF.
All we need him to do on offense is shoot, cut, crash the glass and maybe have a solid catch and drive game for aggressive closeouts.

This applies to every wing we're looking at, not just Fleming.

I'm not mad at either pick. I'd probably draft Sorber out of all those guys first at 14. Fleming definitely fits the PF profile of what we need at that position. His wingspan combined with Wemby's would terrify teams tbh. People always talk about "if the Spurs get Giannis teams wouldn't be able to score", but Fleming actually has a bigger wingspan :lol

[LeBowen]

I'm not mad at either pick. I'd probably draft Sorber out of all those guys first at 14. Fleming definitely fits the PF profile of what we need at that position. His wingspan combined with Wemby's would terrify teams tbh. People always talk about "if the Spurs get Giannis teams wouldn't be able to score", but Fleming actually has a bigger wingspan :lol

I'd also like Sorber, but I'd be really surprised if he's available considering that both Hawks and Bulls need rim protection.
That's a good thing if we're in for a wing, though.

[BackHome]

If Sorber is gone and Cowards medical checks out I am fine drafting him as he has potential but he is also a great 3 point shooter. If those two are are gone trade back and pick up a Center and maybe a PF if a good one is available

[Mr. Body]

My gut is that teams are a titch lower on Fleming than internet denizens are, and that Coward's meteoric rise will stall a bit. He may get nabbed by Portland or even Chicago, but could wind up out of the lottery.

My gut, then, is that the Spurs will go here for upside and look at a Demin. I don't know if they'll be trying to get a topping-out-as-a-role-player guy with the last lottery pick they may have in some time.

[rascal]

My gut is that teams are a titch lower on Fleming than internet denizens are, and that Coward's meteoric rise will stall a bit. He may get nabbed by Portland or even Chicago, but could wind up out of the lottery.

My gut, then, is that the Spurs will go here for upside and look at a Demin. I don't know if they'll be trying to get a topping-out-as-a-role-player guy with the last lottery pick they may have in some time.

They will take McNeeley over Demin

[Russ]

They will take McNeeley over Demin

Do you think that's good or do you just think that's what will happen?

[rascal]

Do you think that's good or do you just think that's what will happen?

Both

[Mr. Body]

I agree that McNeeley will be in their pool. A McNeeley or Demin over the low ceiling wings.

[rascal]

I agree that McNeeley will be in their pool. A McNeeley or Demin over the low ceiling wings.

Spurs will see Demin more as a guard and McNeeley as a SF and will prioritize the SF position.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs will see Demin more as a guard and McNeeley as a SF and will prioritize the SF position.

Maybe. They'll want facilitators at every position if they can and will like Demin's size. I think the lack of facilitation in Fleming, among others, will cause them uncertainty.

[Eaglenole2002]

McNeely likely being a “hunted” type of player on defense really makes me lose serious interest in him. I’m not as worried about him offensively since his game should work much better in a scaled down role.

[Ice009]

My gut is that teams are a titch lower on Fleming than internet denizens are, and that Coward's meteoric rise will stall a bit. He may get nabbed by Portland or even Chicago, but could wind up out of the lottery.

My gut, then, is that the Spurs will go here for upside and look at a Demin. I don't know if they'll be trying to get a topping-out-as-a-role-player guy with the last lottery pick they may have in some time.

I think you've bought up a great point. Like you said, this could be the Spurs' last lottery pick in some time, so you'd want to go with the higher upside/higher ceiling rather than the role player type players at this range.

[Eaglenole2002]

I think you've bought up a great point. Like you said, this could be the Spurs' last lottery pick in some time, so you'd want to go with the higher upside/higher ceiling rather than the role player type players at this range.

Out of curiosity, how do you define a role player? A fifth-best starter? A rotation player? A one-dimensional contributor? A guy like Fleming likely won’t be a star or a top four player on a championship team, but his archetype (if you buy the shooting) is a very valuable player.

[The Truth #6]

There's an argument that Coward is just as good a shooter as Liam, maybe even better, with better role player type skills, better athleticism, better wingspan, though slightly shorter. Basically, just as a shooter I'm intrigued by Coward.

Other than Yaxel, I'm blanking on a toolsy 4 that is at least somewhat ready to play. I agree that Fleming is way down their list. I really want a 4 at the #14, but I think it's going to have to be a 3 or a 5 without reaching egregiously.

[rascal]

Out of curiosity, how do you define a role player? A fifth-best starter? A rotation player? A one-dimensional contributor? A guy like Fleming likely won’t be a star or a top four player on a championship team, but his archetype (if you buy the shooting) is a very valuable player.

A role player is a non starter player in the rotation

[Ice009]

Out of curiosity, how do you define a role player? A fifth-best starter? A rotation player? A one-dimensional contributor? A guy like Fleming likely won’t be a star or a top four player on a championship team, but his archetype (if you buy the shooting) is a very valuable player.

Guys with low ceilings, guys you'd normally draft outside of the lottery (of course, you can still get a great player outside of the lottery that ends up working their ass off to become a great player). I think the Spurs should go with a high ceiling type of guy for the 14th as they're not likely to get a lottery pick for a while if everything goes as we expect/hope it will (I believe the Spurs are going to be really good moving forward). Of course I don't mean take a wild swing and waste the pick, but go for a more upside pick is what I think Mr. Body is pretty much saying, and I agree/think that is the way to go too.

I look at a role player as someone more one-dimensional, lower ceiling, that type of player (don't get me wrong, I love role players). A role player can be a starter, but normally they are a non-starter.

[sfernald]

Maybe. They'll want facilitators at every position if they can and will like Demin's size. I think the lack of facilitation in Fleming, among others, will cause them uncertainty.

You know I was just thinking this. If they go to the three guard lineup, with Wemby basically a 7’5” guard, they might be best to get a PF with guard skills, so that everyone is basically interchangeable.

Didn’t Demin measure out to 6’10” with shoes? And I heard his shot is looking amazing in workouts?

Maybe they could get him in the gym to add some weight and strength and he could become an amazing playmaking PF for us. Who would be the comp, someone like Boris Diaw maybe? Dude is probably the best passer in the draft flat out. That kind of unselfishness never hurts a team game.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Rotation of Fox/Harper/Castle/Barnes/Wemby + Vassell/Sochan/Keldon/Champ + Welsey and Bran deep and 4 roster spots to fill. I know the hate here for Dev/Jeremy/Keldon is strong, but they are very solid 6-8 guys, Champ is a great 9th man. We have $14-15M MLE and the $5Mish Bi-annual exception.

There's not much money to throw around this summer, Wemby/Fox, a clear role, and no state income tax is a pretty solid selling point to take a discount. Barnes + the '22 draft guys and Champ are expirings/RFAs/non-guaranteed. Still have a lot of 2nds.
We have lots of flexibility to upgrade without moving the #14, or to trade down with the #38 to like 17 + 31 with Minny or 19 + 27 with Bkn.

Adams, Lopez, Capela, even Horford (and Kornet) are all UFAs at C. LaRavia, DFS, Yabusele, Nance Jr, Tauren Prince would all fit nicely. Aldama could be a super interesting RFA (JJJ, Edey, GG II coming back, can't pay LaRavia & Aldama + Kennard). Vukcevic got Sarr'd and could be a very cheap, very interesting gamble. Maybe nothing too exciting, but lots of likely cheap, quality bench 4/5s. Point being, cheap quality rotation guys that fit our needs are gettable for cash and we're a situation a backup 4/5 would look at very closely, especially with Barnes and Sochan potentially gone next yr.

Love your first proposal, but would Dallas even listen? That deal doesn't save them money, it takes on 4 yrs of Vassels money without filling a need. It leaves AD/Flagg/Lively as they're only NBA bigs, AD is a glass cannon/Lively may be one too. & They'd still need a starting PG for next yr. Would you trade the #14 plus matching salary (Sochan + Wes, both would fill a need on their team) for just one as an expiring? I'd do it for PJ if he signs a team friendly extension, but not for Gaff.

Likewise would love Camara, great fit, love his game. Ditto love Avdija, but you realizes he's on one of the best contracts ($39.4M for 3yrs and declining yearly) and younger than Camara? No way they trade both, much less take back worse players and more money (don't think the numbers work either). Avdija will cost a ransom. Camara (and his $4.5M/2 yrs) for the #14 is prolly what it would take. #14 seems high, but he's young and cheap and there are a lot of teams that'd be interested. I'd consider that, but that's steep.

I'd rather roll the dice, ideally trade down, keep building the stockpile for the perfect fit, get some stop-gaps role players (or throw money at Aldama, he would be an awesome fit and he younger than Camara) and see if Fleming is Naz 2.0 with better mobility plus a Wolf or Raynaud or Sorber. Or use the extra pick + 2nds and redemption expirings (Sochan/Wes/Bran) to trade for John Collins (but not sure Utah would value the #27 or #31 and he's an expiring and he's a quality player).

LaRavia play for the Kings.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fleming, even though he has a role player profile, fits exactly what we need at the 4 spot though. Good shooter, great wingspan, high motor, hustle player, weakside shotblocker, good roll man, great rebounder, more wingspan than Giannis, runs the floor hard. I like him a lot. What would really bother me is if OKC gets him...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfeBqTDx9vc

[rankingtear]

Fleming is not a playoff role player for this team. Can't face guard initiators nor protect the rim as the anchor. He is John Collins and PJ Washington a 4 in a helio offense. Useless in our system.

[LeBowen]

Fleming is not a playoff role player for this team. Can't face guard initiators nor protect the rim as the anchor. He is John Collins and PJ Washington a 4 in a helio offense. Useless in our system.

I'm honestly just amazed how can so much nonsense fit in such short post.
How would you know if a player who hasn't even been drafted yet is a playoff performer? For better or worse.

Face initiators? How many legit PF face initiators are in the West right now?
Lebron who's irrelevant for our timeline.
Randle.
JJJ? He's not even a real initiator and is weak for his size.
AD? Not on our timeline.
Zion? Won't ever be healthy.

Whoever we get at PF, we won't need them to face guard any star players, but to be a good team/help defender and a great rebounder to help Wemby.
Protecting the rim as the anchor? What the hell are you on about, why would anyone other than Wemby be the anchor?

What's our system? Wemby and Fox player 6 games together, our third most important player is a rookie, we have a #2 pick and a new coach who will surely want to implement some of his stuff compared to interim season.
We have no clue how we're going to play next season.
I'll say it again, just amazing how completely lost you are with some of your takes.

[rankingtear]

I'm honestly just amazed how can so much nonsense fit in such short post.
How would you know if a player who hasn't even been drafted yet is a playoff performer? For better or worse.

Face initiators? How many legit PF face initiators are in the West right now?
Lebron who's irrelevant for our timeline.
Randle.
JJJ? He's not even a real initiator and is weak for his size.
AD? Not on our timeline.
Zion? Won't ever be healthy.

Whoever we get at PF, we won't need them to face guard any star players, but to be a good team/help defender and a great rebounder to help Wemby.
Protecting the rim as the anchor? What the hell are you on about, why would anyone other than Wemby be the anchor?

What's our system? Wemby and Fox player 6 games together, our third most important player is a rookie, we have a #2 pick and a new coach who will surely want to implement some of his stuff compared to interim season.
We have no clue how we're going to play next season.
I'll say it again, just amazing how completely lost you are with some of your takes.

You said the same thing about countering Jokic did OKC beefed up their rebounding or face guarded Jokic with a guard.

[LeBowen]

You said the same thing about countering Jokic did OKC beefed up their rebounding or face guarded Jokic with a guard.

The hell are you on about?
It's actually my fault for even reading any of your nonsense.

[rankingtear]

The hell are you on about?
It's actually my fault for even reading any of your nonsense.

I thought you watch games. Caruso was the main defender on Jokic in game 7 of the playoffs. You said to counter Jokic you need rebounding and inside presence but OKC went smaller and smaller as the series went on, I said you just need a post defender that is not your center, I even said it can be a guard and they did put a guard on him. Then you went on a vanilla rant and changed the subject.

[Ice009]

It seems like Caruso was allowed to foul the crap out of him, though. Will they be letting other "guard" defenders do that to him next season? Did anyone try putting a guard on him during the regular season? I sort of watched the games, but didn't watch them closely. Just mostly had them playing in the background. Didn't they start of with Jaylin Williams guarding him? Who were the primary defenders on him for the series?

[LeBowen]

I thought you watch games. Caruso was the main defender on Jokic in game 7 of the playoffs. You said to counter Jokic you need rebounding and inside presence but OKC went smaller and smaller as the series went on, I said you just need a post defender that is not your center, I even said it can be a guard and they did put a guard on him. Then you went on a vanilla rant and changed the subject.

You can't oversimplify things like that. Jokic didn't have a single 1v1 possession, their entire gameplan was to shut him down.
Watch again if you haven't noticed, he generated so much space for his team and they were unable to capitalize.
Jokic's teammates shot 9-43 from 3PT in G7. If he had a couple who would punish all the double and triple teaming, OKC would've had to change their strategy.

And you can't reduce the Spurs needs to what OKC did in one game against Denver.
Our biggest issue was every big wing dominating and every competent team winning the rebounding battle against us.

[PhantomDashCam]

1925274771149004902


2025 NBA Draft Projection: Round 1, Pick 15-20

Fleming’s elite measurables, great athleticism and shooting potential make it easy to buy into his NBA projection. He may never become a star without great feel for the game or offensive skills, but Fleming at his best could help winning teams. Teams with their core offensive pieces in place would benefit from Fleming’s defense and floor spacing.

[The Truth #6]

I want to roll the dice on Fleming at 14. However, I'm preparing for that not to happen and hoping for Coward at least. Getting Denim for me would be disappointing.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fleming is not a playoff role player for this team. Can't face guard initiators nor protect the rim as the anchor. He is John Collins and PJ Washington a 4 in a helio offense. Useless in our system.

system? The last time this franchise had a system was 2018 :lol

We play fast. Fleming is great in transition. Fits perfectly and he's a hustle player with a 3-point shot, which we really need at the 4.

[CGD]

Before Harper, I thought Demin would be the pick at 14 given the Giddy comp. Feels like that itch has been scratched now (I hope).

I’d be pleased with a wing, or a high upside project like Essengue.

[RC_Drunkford]

It seems like Caruso was allowed to foul the crap out of him, though. Will they be letting other "guard" defenders do that to him next season? Did anyone try putting a guard on him during the regular season? I sort of watched the games, but didn't watch them closely. Just mostly had them playing in the background. Didn't they start of with Jaylin Williams guarding him? Who were the primary defenders on him for the series?

OKC did that once in the regular season and then went away from it. The main reason why this worked was because they were able to sag off Westbrook cause he can't shoot. The other problem was that Denver somehow forgot that one of the wings has to cut to the nail to just throw a high-low pass to Jokic so he can get a lay up. Add to that Gordon playing hobbled and MPJ playing with one arm and there you go.

[rankingtear]

system? The last time this franchise had a system was 2018 :lol

We play fast. Fleming is great in transition. Fits perfectly and he's a hustle player with a 3-point shot, which we really need at the 4.

All dears are great in transition.

[Dejounte]

Noa Essengue reminds me of Tayshaun Prince

people have to think where the physicality is going to come from if 1-5 is either our offensive engine guards who you can’t risk being too physical on defense because they’ll get in foul trouble or skinny Noa and Wemby? Our guy who we want to keep injury free? I don’t know why people want a skinny wing at the 4, tbh. It never made sense. Who would be our Dort or Caruso? This is also why I think Carter Bryant won’t work, and Ace never had a chance with us. Fleming is bulky and it might work.

[rankingtear]

Noa Essengue reminds me of Tayshaun Prince

people have to think where the physicality is going to come from if 1-5 is either our offensive engine guards who you can’t risk being too physical on defense because they’ll get in foul trouble or skinny Noa and Wemby? Our guy who we want to keep injury free? I don’t know why people want a skinny wing at the 4, tbh. It never made sense. Who would be our Dort or Caruso? This is also why I think Carter Bryant won’t work, and Ace never had a chance with us. Fleming is bulky and it might work.

Nobody wants a skinny wing at the 4, but it is important that the 4 man has to have enough on ball juice or volume shooting to punish centers in the perimeter.

[Dejounte]

The Spurs have been all about “setting the tone” defensively, which is why I think something’s got to give in a lineup with Fox, Harper, Castle, and Wemby. They will fill that fifth spot with someone who has a knack for defense, tbh. This was the reason Sochan was a starter up until the second half became a throwaway season + they needed a shooter for lineup synergy. With Castle being an improved shooter next year, and Harper probably a good one already, I think they’ll shoot for a defensive big.

[RC_Drunkford]

Nobody wants a skinny wing at the 4, but it is important that the 4 man has to have enough on ball juice or volume shooting to punish centers in the perimeter.

Fleming has shooting. Handles are definitely his weakness, but there's nothing that indicates he won't get better at dribbling.

[LeBowen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKc56eNq_c

[Dejounte]

Nobody wants a skinny wing at the 4, but it is important that the 4 man has to have enough on ball juice or volume shooting to punish centers in the perimeter.

skinny wings people have wanted at the 4: TMIII, Ace Bailey, Carter Bryant, Noa Essengue

[RC_Drunkford]

skinny wings people have wanted at the 4: TMIII, Ace Bailey, Carter Bryant, Noa Essengue

I don't think people want TMIII at the 4, rather the 3. Same with Carter Bryant.

[Dejounte]

I don't think people want TMIII at the 4, rather the 3. Same with Carter Bryant.

then I don’t know what kind of improvement people would expect from making a move like that. Yeah they’re better than Vassell, or Champagnie but I don’t think it will be a huge improvement. Just imagine games where Julian or Vassell shot lights out and if they did that more consistently. That’s the kind of improvement I think TM3 or a draftee (if they reached their potential) would make. Will it win more games? Sure. A lot more? Nah.

[rankingtear]

Fleming has shooting. Handles are definitely his weakness, but there's nothing that indicates he won't get better at dribbling.

You can say that for all the prospects with bad handles what makes him special.

[LeBowen]

You can say that for all the prospects with bad handles what makes him special.

His size/wingspan and the ability to consistently shoot 3s?
That's what we need.

Haven't we had enough of "everyone gets to bring the ball up" nonsense.
I don't want anymore of that.

[Seventyniner]

system? The last time this franchise had a system was 2018 :lol

We play fast. Fleming is great in transition. Fits perfectly and he's a hustle player with a 3-point shot, which we really need at the 4.

Playing fast is a great way for a bad team to tank. It gives the opponent more possessions in which to leverage their advantage. I don't think the Spurs' past pace is predictive of their future pace.

[LeBowen]

Playing fast is a great way for a bad team to tank. It gives the opponent more possessions in which to leverage their advantage. I don't think the Spurs' past pace is predictive of their future pace.

Or we could double down on it and force the league to adjust, we'll have the best player, after all.

https://i.imgur.com/CphmJlk.png

This season was on pace (pun intended) with two best records in the league and another conference finalist.
Imagine Wemby on that Pacers team instead of Turner, game breaking.

He's going to be the best player in the league and others will have to adjust to the Spurs.
He seems way more comfortable on the perimeter and we don't really want him to post up, especially if we get another great guard.
Having the best rim protector in the league alongside multiple ballhandlers, one of which is the fastest player in the league will make Spurs impossible to deal with.
The more ballhandlers we have, the more difficult it will be to stop the transition.

[rankingtear]

skinny wings people have wanted at the 4: TMIII, Ace Bailey, Carter Bryant, Noa Essengue

That is only scott, the guy does not know TMIII is 205 lbs.

[Extra Stout]

The Spurs have been all about “setting the tone” defensively, which is why I think something’s got to give in a lineup with Fox, Harper, Castle, and Wemby. They will fill that fifth spot with someone who has a knack for defense, tbh. This was the reason Sochan was a starter up until the second half became a throwaway season + they needed a shooter for lineup synergy. With Castle being an improved shooter next year, and Harper probably a good one already, I think they’ll shoot for a defensive big.
Back when the Spurs were good, they always could go with double bigs (Duncan/Robinson, Duncan/Nesterovic, Duncan/Mohammed, Duncan/Oberto, Duncan/Splitter), or had a true stretch 4 who was stout defensively (Horry), and had one or more good-to-elite POA defenders (Elliott, Bowen, Green, Leonard).

Now they have no credible bigs other than Wemby, and no actual plus defenders besides Wemby and Sochan, the latter of whose role is limited by his utter lack of shooting.

Castle you hope develops into a good defender, but his rookie year he was not.

The Spurs finished 14th in offensive efficiency last year, but 25th in defensive efficiency. Regardless of what happens with improved offense due to better shooting/spacing/multiple guards who can attack, if they don’t build a credible defense, Wemby will languish in mediocrity.

This has to be taken into account in draft strategy and overall team construction.

[LeBowen]

The Spurs finished 14th in offensive efficiency last year, but 25th in defensive efficiency.

I know he can't be on the floor at all times, but Wemby has 110 DRTG for the season, Spurs as a team have 116.3.
Backup big who would do a respectable job when Wemby sits wouldn't solve most of our problems, but if we had one we'd surely be an average defensive roster, even with all the size issue on the wings.

[sfernald]

Back when the Spurs were good, they always could go with double bigs (Duncan/Robinson, Duncan/Nesterovic, Duncan/Mohammed, Duncan/Oberto, Duncan/Splitter), or had a true stretch 4 who was stout defensively (Horry), and had one or more good-to-elite POA defenders (Elliott, Bowen, Green, Leonard).

Now they have no credible bigs other than Wemby, and no actual plus defenders besides Wemby and Sochan, the latter of whose role is limited by his utter lack of shooting.

Castle you hope develops into a good defender, but his rookie year he was not.

The Spurs finished 14th in offensive efficiency last year, but 25th in defensive efficiency. Regardless of what happens with improved offense due to better shooting/spacing/multiple guards who can attack, if they don’t build a credible defense, Wemby will languish in mediocrity.

This has to be taken into account in draft strategy and overall team construction.

It seems like the biggest thing we are missing is a credible big other than Wemby as you said. Maybe we should just draft the closest thing to Wemby lite in the draft at #14 so we get 48 minutes of consistent defense first and foremost. So who would that be? Anyone know with any certainty of the huge number of possible centers drafted?

[mo7888]

It seems like the biggest thing we are missing is a credible big other than Wemby as you said. Maybe we should just draft the closest thing to Wemby lite in the draft at #14 so we get 48 minutes of consistent defense first and foremost. So who would that be? Anyone know with any certainty of the huge number of possible centers drafted?

There is no 'Wemby Lite' in this draft...

[RC_Drunkford]

You can say that for all the prospects with bad handles what makes him special.

- bigger wingspan than Giannis
- good 3-point shooter
- has improved his game every year
- athletic with an NBA body
- high motor
- makes hustle plays
- good rebounder
- can play smallball 5 and protect the rim
- averaged 3 stocks per game
- runs hard in transition
- averaged over 1.5 PPP as a cutter
- sets good screens
- good roller
- 2nd in shuttle run at the combine
- quicker lane agility than Dylan Harper

should I go on?

[RC_Drunkford]

Playing fast is a great way for a bad team to tank. It gives the opponent more possessions in which to leverage their advantage. I don't think the Spurs' past pace is predictive of their future pace.

tell that to the Pacers who are in the ECF


then I don’t know what kind of improvement people would expect from making a move like that. Yeah they’re better than Vassell, or Champagnie but I don’t think it will be a huge improvement. Just imagine games where Julian or Vassell shot lights out and if they did that more consistently. That’s the kind of improvement I think TM3 or a draftee (if they reached their potential) would make. Will it win more games? Sure. A lot more? Nah.

TM3 is better defensively though (at least that's what people say). If Vassell can ever return to being a good defender and offball player who shoots lights out, then I agree that this move won't do much. That's why I'd rather have a PF like PJ Washington or John Collins.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think the Spurs can smartly package the 14th pick and Keldon to deal with Brooklyn and get Cam Johnson and a late FRP. And use the late FRP plus Barnes & Branham to get Porzingis. The lineup could then be -

Fox, Castle, CamJohnson, Sochan, Wemby
Harper, Vassell, Champagnie, Mamu, Porzingis
Wesley, Duke Jr, Ingram/Minix, Larry Nance Jr (FA), Biyombo/ Alex Condon (SRP)

[RC_Drunkford]

I think the Spurs can smartly package the 14th pick and Keldon to deal with Brooklyn and get Cam Johnson and a late FRP. And use the late FRP plus Barnes & Branham to get Porzingis. The lineup could then be -

Fox, Castle, CamJohnson, Sochan, Wemby
Harper, Vassell, Champagnie, Mamu, Porzingis
Wesley, Duke Jr, Ingram/Minix, Larry Nance Jr (FA), Biyombo/ Alex Condon (SRP)

The Celtics would have to send the Spurs a first round pick for Porzingis. They need to get rid of his contract, there's no reason to pay assets to help them.

[BacktoBasics]

Porzi is done. He might try to hang on for a minute but he'll be out of the league before too long.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The Celtics would have to send the Spurs a first round pick for Porzingis. They need to get rid of his contract, there's no reason to pay assets to help them.

Yeah. The FRP in this case would go back to the Nets who will take up the contracts of Barnes (Branham could go to the Celtics). Essentially they retain their late FRP and 14th pick to get Barnes (an expiring) and Keldon while giving up Cam Johnson. Its a good deal for them. Perhaps the Spurs can get the Celtics late FRP in exchange for their 38th pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah. The FRP in this case would go back to the Nets who will take up the contracts of Barnes (Branham could go to the Celtics). Essentially they retain their late FRP and 14th pick to get Barnes (an expiring) and Keldon while giving up Cam Johnson. Its a good deal for them. Perhaps the Spurs can get the Celtics late FRP in exchange for their 38th pick.

if Brian Wright can squeeze an asset out of the Celtics I'm all for it. I'm not wasting that on Cam Johnson though. I want PJ or John Collins and both should cost less.

[LeBowen]

Some of you really need to stop including Barnes in trades for other role players.

[Guru of Nothing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKc56eNq_c

Biyombo got a lot of easy looks down the stretch last season. With minimal squinting, I can see Sorber rolling out of bed posting a 10/12 stat line on day 1 (foot permitting).

[Seventyniner]

Or we could double down on it and force the league to adjust, we'll have the best player, after all.

I don't know if Wemby can get enough conditioning to handle such a pace, but it would certainly help if he could. Having two young foul-baiters in transition and Fox with his speed will be hard for opponents to deal with already.

What I was getting at was that when the Spurs were actually tanking, they played really fast. So did the Process Sixers, if memory serves. Tanking teams tend to be very young and young players run a lot more than older ones so that's another source of correlation.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Some of you really need to stop including Barnes in trades for other role players.

I wouldn't say Porzingis and Cam Johnson are just "role players". They are valuable starters in their teams for quite a few seasons now.

[sfernald]

Skip Porzingis and MPJ. Even if they play most of the season they will 100% let you down when you need them most in the playoffs.

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't say Porzingis and Cam Johnson are just "role players". They are valuable starters in their teams for quite a few seasons now.

Cam was at 12ppg with just 1.5 assists in his best Suns season, the definition of a role player.
I don't think tank commander with ultimate green light stats in Brooklyn are relevant.

As I wrote a couple of times, Champagnie is about 70% of Cam Johnson.
I'm not giving up any good assets for him, he's a finishing move to complete the roster, wouldn't change much for us right now since I don't think he can be the PF we need with his career average of 4 rebounds.

Porzingis was never healthy for long stretches and seems to have a myserious illness right now. Not worth considering.

[mo7888]

if Brian Wright can squeeze an asset out of the Celtics I'm all for it. I'm not wasting that on Cam Johnson though. I want PJ or John Collins and both should cost less.

I'm probably in favor of Cillins over all of the available 4's out there because he can play small ball 5 and makes drafting a C before #38 less essential.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm probably in favor of Cillins over all of the available 4's out there because he can play small ball 5 and makes drafting a C before #38 less essential.

trust me, Collins should not play small ball 5. Part of the reason his defensive ranking has always been up and down is because teams tried to let him play C for stretches. His defensive rating was 10 points per 100 posessions worse at C than at PF when he was on the Hawks. He's a good help defender, but not a rim protector.

[mo7888]

, Collins should not play small ball 5. Part of the reason his defensive ranking has always been up and down is because teams tried to let him play C for stretches. His defensive rating was 10 points per 100 posessions worse at C than at PF when he was on the Hawks.[/QUOTE]

You also jave to consider what was around him in Atlanta vs Utah vs. SA. I'm not concerned about him logging a few minutes there in certain matchups

[Raven]

the more i look into it, the more i see absolute gold available at #14

[TekXX]

What are they odds this pick just gets traded away for more picks? The Spurs are a well-known poverty franchise not looking to hand out more than one rookie contract.

[mo7888]

What are they odds this pick just gets traded away for more picks? The Spurs are a well-known poverty franchise not looking to hand out more than one rookie contract.

I think they use it, but trading for future picks isn't the worst idea out there either...

[objective]

Noa Essengue reminds me of Tayshaun Prince

people have to think where the physicality is going to come from if 1-5 is either our offensive engine guards who you can’t risk being too physical on defense because they’ll get in foul trouble or skinny Noa and Wemby? Our guy who we want to keep injury free? I don’t know why people want a skinny wing at the 4, tbh. It never made sense. Who would be our Dort or Caruso? This is also why I think Carter Bryant won’t work, and Ace never had a chance with us. Fleming is bulky and it might work.

I don't think Carter Bryant screams out 'skinny wing' to me. He looks like he has the frame to that will carry more weight easily. He'll be comparable to Richard Jefferson who settled in at 230.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Cam was at 12ppg with just 1.5 assists in his best Suns season, the definition of a role player.
I don't think tank commander with ultimate green light stats in Brooklyn are relevant.

As I wrote a couple of times, Champagnie is about 70% of Cam Johnson.
I'm not giving up any good assets for him, he's a finishing move to complete the roster, wouldn't change much for us right now since I don't think he can be the PF we need with his career average of 4 rebounds.

Porzingis was never healthy for long stretches and seems to have a myserious illness right now. Not worth considering.

Advanced Stats such as EPM rates Cam Johnson far more highly than a situational role player (and one of the league's worst defenders) like Harrison Barnes. Johnson is also younger than Barnes with a good contract to boot. In his best season with the Suns, Johnson shared court space with late prime Chris Paul, All Star Devin Booker and an all purpose high level starter in Mikal Bridges plus an useful Center in Ayton and he had an above average performance as a 3 and D player. On the Nets, Johnson showed an ability to take the ball to the rack and score beyond just situational three points shooting. Anyone who watched the NBA games would tell you that Cam Johnson is a better player than Barnes and has nearly the same salary.

Johnson is a much better shooter than Champagnie and can handle the ball much better too. EPM stats for the last 3 seasons and particularly the last season would tell that your 70% assessment is bogus.

Playing Johnson allows Sochan to play with Wemby too, IMO. KP in my scheme is a backup which is a worthy place for him to play and he can also share spot minutes with Wemby as a PF/C. Getting him for literally free is something a smart FO will love to do. Yes, the one hitch is the mystery illness, but latest news suggest that he was suffering from a post-viral disorder and the prognosis is that long rest in the offseason should be enough for recuperation.

I don't know of any NBA player quitting because of an undiagnosed illness. Most career stops were due to severe conditions like dangerous blood clots, irreparable physical injuries (to the knee, neck/spine) or psychological issues (a la Royce White or Robert Swift or Delonte West). Illnesses have generally found a cure, at least in the last few years.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Just to add to the above post -

Cam Johnson, OEPM (offense):3.1, 96 %ile
DEPM, defense: -0.7 (28 %ile)

Harrison Barnes: OEPM: 1.8 (89th %ile), DEPM: -1.8 (4th %ile)

Kristaps Porzingis: OEPM: 2.6 (94%), DEPM: 1.0(85th%).

John Collins: OEPM: 0.9 (82%),DEPM: 0.0 (54th%).

Cam Johnson plus KP will be a massive upgrade over Keldon plus Barnes. If we don't land Cam Johnson (who is an easier get because of the possibility of exchanging FRPs with Brooklyn), John Collins can be an option but it won't be as easy to get him as Danny Ainge will ask for way more.

[LeBowen]

Advanced Stats such as EPM rates Cam Johnson far more highly than a situational role player (and one of the league's worst defenders) like Harrison Barnes. Johnson is also younger than Barnes with a good contract to boot. In his best season with the Suns, Johnson shared court space with late prime Chris Paul, All Star Devin Booker and an all purpose high level starter in Mikal Bridges plus an useful Center in Ayton and he had an above average performance as a 3 and D player. On the Nets, Johnson showed an ability to take the ball to the rack and score beyond just situational three points shooting. Anyone who watched the NBA games would tell you that Cam Johnson is a better player than Barnes and has nearly the same salary.

I didn't say Cam isn't better than Barnes, I just don't think he's worth trading for when we have way bigger issues to figure out.


Johnson is a much better shooter than Champagnie and can handle the ball much better too. EPM stats for the last 3 seasons and particularly the last season would tell that your 70% assessment is bogus.

Cam's best season with the Suns in a similar role he'd have with us was 14ppg. Career 39% 3pt shooter.

Champ is obviously unproven, but in the only 20 game stretch where he got regular minutes and played 30mpg, he averaged 14ppg on 37% from 3pt on 8 attempts.



Playing Johnson allows Sochan to play with Wemby too, IMO.

Castle's shooting is the key. If he's still at ~30% at the start of the season, I don't think Jeremy can start.
I wouldn't mind him as a SF, my issue is that most people suggesting him want to slot him into that PF position, which just can't work since he's a 4rpg forward.

Ideally, I'd keep both Barnes and Champagnie, while getting another 3-D forward.
No place for Devin or Keldon.

Fox/Harper/Castle three man guard rotation.
One legit forward and probably the #14 pick alongside Barnes, Champ and Jeremy for forward positions. Spurs won't get rid of Jeremy, I personally think he's beyond saving if he doesn't develop a functional jumpshot over the summer.
Wemby and a reliable backup.

That should be enough to have a fully functional roster and make the playoffs. We see what we have then we fix whatever needs fixing for the 26-27 when we should be legit contenders. Healthy Wemby will surely be a top3 MVP candidate in 26-27 season.


KP in my scheme is a backup which is a worthy place for him to play and he can also share spot minutes with Wemby as a PF/C. Getting him for literally free is something a smart FO will love to do. Yes, the one hitch is the mystery illness, but latest news suggest that he was suffering from a post-viral disorder and the prognosis is that long rest in the offseason should be enough for recuperation.

I don't know of any NBA player quitting because of an undiagnosed illness. Most career stops were due to severe conditions like dangerous blood clots, irreparable physical injuries (to the knee, neck/spine) or psychological issues (a la Royce White or Robert Swift or Delonte West). Illnesses have generally found a cure, at least in the last few years.

It's smart until he inevitably gets injured.
Porzingis hasn't played 70 games since his rookie year.
Missed exactly 82 games over the past 3 seasons. 75% availability.
Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until it's 100% certain DVT has been dealt with, we need someone reliable for that backup position and not another player who's a huge injury risk.

Healthy Porzingis would be great, I'd even consider playing him and Wemby together, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.
If we do go for him by some chance, we'd need another reliable big with clean medical record.

[exstatic]

If Porzingas really has long COVID as rumored,you’d be paying him $30 M to rehab.

[RC_Drunkford]

John Collins can be an option but it won't be as easy to get him as Danny Ainge will ask for way more.

no he won't. Collins might actually opt out cause he wants to win, which would make this a simple sign and trade. Cam Johnson is the more expensive one cause he got 2 more years left on his deal. Unlike Brooklyn, Utah has to trade Collins to squeeze any value out of his contract.

Btw you didn't factor in rebounding, which is one of our teams biggest needs. Collins grabs double the boards Cam Johnson gets.

[LeBowen]

no he won't. Collins might actually opt out cause he wants to win, which would make this a simple sign and trade. Cam Johnson is the more expensive one cause he got 2 more years left on his deal. Unlike Brooklyn, Utah has to trade Collins to squeeze any value out of his contract.

Btw you didn't factor in rebounding, which is one of our teams biggest needs. Collins grabs double the boards Cam Johnson gets.

Utah isn't in that great of a cap situation due to Lauri's max.
If Collins opts in, they'll be just ~3 million below the cap before signing their their new rookies.

Ainge surely wants to leave some of that space open to get another asset or two for taking on a bad contract at the deadline.


Cam and Collins shouldn't be compared, different players.
Collins is a traditional, physical PF who can also shoot the ball.
Cam is a traditional 3-D SF with double the 3pt volume.

They'd actually be a great forward duo and Fox/Castle/Cam/Collins/Wemby lineup would make a lot of sense.

[spurraider21]

The Celtics would have to send the Spurs a first round pick for Porzingis. They need to get rid of his contract, there's no reason to pay assets to help them.
his contract is expiring. it wouldnt take a pick to move off of it

[RC_Drunkford]

Utah isn't in that great of a cap situation due to Lauri's max.
If Collins opts in, they'll be just ~3 million below the cap before signing their their new rookies.

Ainge surely wants to leave some of that space open to get another asset or two for taking on a bad contract at the deadline.


Cam and Collins shouldn't be compared, different players.
Collins is a traditional, physical PF who can also shoot the ball.
Cam is a traditional 3-D SF with double the 3pt volume.

They'd actually be a great forward duo and Fox/Castle/Cam/Collins/Wemby lineup would make a lot of sense.

Collins actually hinted in his exit interview that he would like to sign a new deal and be "in the right situation" and that he's "open to anything". So the Spurs can absolutely get him if they want to. It's just a matter of who they ship out and what is attached to it. This dude is one of the most underrated players in the NBA to me.

[RC_Drunkford]

his contract is expiring. it wouldnt take a pick to move off of it

says who? If the Celtics want you to take on a 30 million dollar deal, they will have to pay teams for it. And the only team that has the space is Brooklyn. They might be able to offload him for a bunch of seconds, but they will have to send assets with it. Be it a swap or whatever.

[The Truth #6]

I'd just draft Fleming for many reasons rather than pay for getting John Collins. Collins seems like not the personality the Spurs typically go for. Always assumed he was sort of a dick. And he's probably gotten used to losing. Just my uninformed opinion.

[Dejounte]

Im glad work is making these weeks go by fast.. soon enough it will be draft time finally

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd just draft Fleming for many reasons rather than pay for getting John Collins. Collins seems like not the personality the Spurs typically go for. Always assumed he was sort of a dick. And he's probably gotten used to losing. Just my uninformed opinion.

keyword uinformed. Ex-Spurs coach Will Hardy loves him. He's a military guy, lived on the Virgin Islands and went to Wake Forest. Does that remind you of anybody? Probably couldn't be a better fit.


"I also think that when it comes down to it, I know John is one of those guys on our team that I know I can count on every night to play really, really hard," Hardy continued. "It's not just about where he gets the ball. It's offensive rebounds, tip-ins, hustling for loose balls-- those plays are huge. So, it's a combination of a bunch of things."

He was basically the locker room vet for the Jazz. Also became a fan favorite in Utah.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWRixHH9YOY

[Manu&Duncan fan]

tell that to the Pacers who are in the ECF



TM3 is better defensively though (at least that's what people say). If Vassell can ever return to being a good defender and offball player who shoots lights out, then I agree that this move won't do much. That's why I'd rather have a PF like PJ Washington or John Collins.

You got it!

I think Spurs should play faster too from now on.

We have 3 fast guards with one fast alien.

The #4 needs to able to rebound, run fast breaks and shoots 3s.

Fleming and Raynaud will be good picks.

[benefactor]

It really is a crapshoot picking late lottery/middle first. Look at 2020. Only one pick separates a player that we want off the team and a player that is currently all over the news going clutch for his team in the Eastern Conference Finals.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

- bigger wingspan than Giannis
- good 3-point shooter
- has improved his game every year
- athletic with an NBA body
- high motor
- makes hustle plays
- good rebounder
- can play smallball 5 and protect the rim
- averaged 3 stocks per game
- runs hard in transition
- averaged over 1.5 PPP as a cutter
- sets good screens
- good roller
- 2nd in shuttle run at the combine
- quicker lane agility than Dylan Harper

should I go on?

Sign me in please! I would move to have that player!

People exaggerate about IQ or "beautiful" game that everyone should be able to dribble and pass.

They're ignoring the fact that we have 3 or 4 stars. The role player's job are made easier than usual

Plus, what you described above is efficient and beautiful too!

[scott]

That is only scott, the guy does not know TMIII is 205 lbs.

I've never suggested TMIII as our 4.

I suggested a potential lineup of Fox, Castle, TMIII, Herb, Wemby... but it wasn't meant to suggest either TMIII or Herb are a full-time 4. Obviously the lineup needs to be adjusted for matchups. Is this a new concept?

[scott]

Porzi is done. He might try to hang on for a minute but he'll be out of the league before too long.

I heard he might have Long Covid?

I'd take a flyer on Tingus if it were essentially free or we were getting compensated for taking his salary. Let him sit for the first half of the season, then come roaring back with a vengeance as he perhaps his value for the next offseason, where maybe we can S&T him.

[Ice009]

Collins actually hinted in his exit interview that he would like to sign a new deal and be "in the right situation" and that he's "open to anything". So the Spurs can absolutely get him if they want to. It's just a matter of who they ship out and what is attached to it. This dude is one of the most underrated players in the NBA to me.

Are exit interviews available to watch? And is it usually the top players on the team that have them?

Edit: Just saw you posted the Collins one. I had no idea he had Virgin Island connections (did he live there long?) and went to Wake Forest.

[RC_Drunkford]

Are exit interviews available to watch? And is it usually the top players on the team that have them?

Edit: Just saw you posted the Collins one. I had no idea he had Virgin Island connections (did he live there long?) and went to Wake Forest.

wait til you find out that he shot 53/40/85 and averaged better stats than Lauri

[spurraider21]

says who? If the Celtics want you to take on a 30 million dollar deal, they will have to pay teams for it. And the only team that has the space is Brooklyn. They might be able to offload him for a bunch of seconds, but they will have to send assets with it. Be it a swap or whatever.
i really dont think so, unless they thing KP is dead weight like ben simmons between 2021 and 2024, which is absolutely not the case

[sfernald]

I thought this was interesting, this is the pelicans picking @ 7 keep in mind looking at “wildcard” players to draft. Most of our favorite names here…



https://youtu.be/Xl4qVIj1U6Q?si=I1rNpYSRQGI8W4M7

[CGD]

How do we feel about Egor Demin?

For those interested, he had a nice interview with the Ringer people yesterday:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ringers-nba-draft-show/id1652760062?i=1000709343909

[Russ]

How do we feel about Egor Demin?

I like him.

As far as Demins go.

[Knoxxx]

Demin is not a terrible option but I’d take Bryant or Fleming ahead of him. Probably McNeeley also, though I like Demin’s measurements better than Liam’s.

[Ariel]

How do we feel about Egor Demin?

For those interested, he had a nice interview with the Ringer people yesterday:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ringers-nba-draft-show/id1652760062?i=1000709343909
Demin was never a target of mine because of range and fit, but If you believe in his 3 point shot you take him in a heartbeat, that combination of size, passing and IQ coupled with shooting is very rare, he could be a star point forward in the making. With that said, if the shot doesn't come along he could e a liability on both ends, a 0-way kind of player. who hurts you. This is where you have to defer to teams judgement, we don't get to see them work out like they do. If he really has shooting upside, he's going to skyrocket and for good reason.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I didn't say Cam isn't better than Barnes, I just don't think he's worth trading for when we have way bigger issues to figure out.



Cam's best season with the Suns in a similar role he'd have with us was 14ppg. Career 39% 3pt shooter.

Champ is obviously unproven, but in the only 20 game stretch where he got regular minutes and played 30mpg, he averaged 14ppg on 37% from 3pt on 8 attempts.


Aah right. A 20 game stretch sample is more important to you than a 5-season record with a 39% 3-pt shooting on 6 attempts a game. Yeah. Very logical.


Castle's shooting is the key. If he's still at ~30% at the start of the season, I don't think Jeremy can start.
I wouldn't mind him as a SF, my issue is that most people suggesting him want to slot him into that PF position, which just can't work since he's a 4rpg forward.

Ideally, I'd keep both Barnes and Champagnie, while getting another 3-D forward.
No place for Devin or Keldon.

Fox/Harper/Castle three man guard rotation.
One legit forward and probably the #14 pick alongside Barnes, Champ and Jeremy for forward positions. Spurs won't get rid of Jeremy, I personally think he's beyond saving if he doesn't develop a functional jumpshot over the summer.
Wemby and a reliable backup.

That should be enough to have a fully functional roster and make the playoffs. We see what we have then we fix whatever needs fixing for the 26-27 when we should be legit contenders. Healthy Wemby will surely be a top3 MVP candidate in 26-27 season.

The Spurs aren't trading Vassell as they need the 3Pt shooting around Wemby. Cam Johnson is an upgrade over both Barnes and Champagnie while it is easier to get a backup like Larry Nance Jr or a similar player on the cheap to push Sochan to improve.




It's smart until he inevitably gets injured.
Porzingis hasn't played 70 games since his rookie year.
Missed exactly 82 games over the past 3 seasons. 75% availability.
Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until it's 100% certain DVT has been dealt with, we need someone reliable for that backup position and not another player who's a huge injury risk.

Healthy Porzingis would be great, I'd even consider playing him and Wemby together, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.
If we do go for him by some chance, we'd need another reliable big with clean medical record.

Except Porzingis was a key piece in the Celtics' championship run just a season ago and his illness was one of the main reasons apart from Tatum's Achilles injury that derailed the Celtics' championship run this year. Whenever he was on the court, the Celtics' 5-out offense was perhaps the best in the league and near the best ever. That showcases his importance to the still reigning champion and considering the fact the Celtics will be desperate to get under the second apron because of severe penalties in hand, getting someone like him is a very clear possibility.

Porzingis, if he is traded for by the Spurs, will be signed for *just* 1 season, 30 odd million $. Not a multi-year contract that makes it risky to sign an injury prone player. Weighed against the risk of his getting injured is also the fact that he will be expected to play backup C to Wemby or spot minutes at PF with him. Thats a manageable risk for just one season and enhances the Spurs lineups dramatically even if he plays just 60 odd games. The Spurs' best chance of getting a serviceable long term backup for Wemby at C can be explored in 2026 while the focus in 2025 can be on getting the shooting and two-way play around him, if KP is the back-up big along with a serviceable rookie like Alex Condon and a veteran like Biyombo. There is no way that the Spurs dont try to convert Keldon (who is not a fit) and Barnes (who is a useful expiring) into something more meaningful and while I like the idea of John Collins as the 4, KP + Cam Johnson is a viable upgrade just because of what their shooting brings and how they fill up voids in the Spurs roster pretty cleanly.

[LeBowen]

Aah right. A 20 game stretch sample is more important to you than a 5-season record with a 39% 3-pt shooting on 6 attempts a game. Yeah. Very logical.

It's not more important, but it's enough of a sample size for a shooter who doesn't do much else.
He's always at around 37% regardless of minutes. The point I was trying to make is that he's good enough to be the 5th option on offense or the first wing off the bench.
At least for current Spurs that have a lot more pressing issues.


The Spurs aren't trading Vassell as they need the 3Pt shooting around Wemby.

We also need size, we can go with the Castle/Vassell SG/SF combo for another year, but it won't work for playoff basketball.
I said it during the season, the only way I can see Devin being useful is if he moves to the 6th man role. But then we got the #2 pick and things got even worse for him.


Cam Johnson is an upgrade over both Barnes and Champagnie while it is easier to get a backup like Larry Nance Jr or a similar player on the cheap to push Sochan to improve.

You're missing my point.
We don't need a backup like Larry Nance, we need a quality starter at PF.
John Collins, PJ Washington, Aldama, Naz Reid, you get the point.

Cam is an upgrade over Barnes and Champagnie, but still the same archetype, just better than what we have.
The team would play the same, he'd play better defense than Barnes and make more 3s than Champagnie, but we'd still get destroyed on the glass because he's another underwhelming rebounder for a forward.

We don't need to push Sochan to improve, he can't be the focus of the team anymore, but an afterthought. He's had three years and made absolutely no jumpshot improvements in zero pressure environment.
Move him to the end of the rotation, if he develops a jumpshot - great, if he doesn't he can go elsewhere.
We won't have the luxury of playing fundamentally flawed players in this upcoming season, it's time to actually make the playoffs.


Except Porzingis was a key piece in the Celtics' championship run just a season ago and

Key piece? He missed 12/19 playoff games last season.
Celtics were 10-2 without him. Should probably say 11-2 because he had no impact in the closeout game against the Mavs.
His only relevant contribution was that great start of G1 in the finals.

We all have players we irrationally like or dislike, but Porzingis is finished as a serious contributor. Can't be relied on.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

The needs on this team are so obvious - essentially all of us are saying the same thing just 15 different ways to get there.

DV and KJ have shooting but are too small (and too expensive) and should be traded for different pieces if possible.
Sochan has the size and defense but doesn't rebound and can't shoot. I'd keep him while he's cheap.
Champ is a career 2nd team player at the SG/SF position. Keep him as well.

What's needed (and sooner than later they WILL need to address needs) along w/ the Fox/Castle/Harper/Wemby lineup is either a younger Barnes (replacement) or a bigger stretch 4 who can shoot the 3, defend and rebound.

At that position, I'd prefer trading for Collins. He's checks all the boxes, he's a vet/leader and it seems like his costs wouldn't be too high. Outside of him would be Fleming, then Newell. McNeeley has the shooting but no defense or rebounding. Riley is decent at all but not great at any. Demin is just a taller version of Fox/Castle/Harper.

No to Giannis, Lauri or anyone else (for price reasons).

[Spursfanfromafar]

It's not more important, but it's enough of a sample size for a shooter who doesn't do much else.
He's always at around 37% regardless of minutes. The point I was trying to make is that he's good enough to be the 5th option on offense or the first wing off the bench.
At least for current Spurs that have a lot more pressing issues.



We also need size, we can go with the Castle/Vassell SG/SF combo for another year, but it won't work for playoff basketball.
I said it during the season, the only way I can see Devin being useful is if he moves to the 6th man role. But then we got the #2 pick and things got even worse for him.



You're missing my point.
We don't need a backup like Larry Nance, we need a quality starter at PF.
John Collins, PJ Washington, Aldama, Naz Reid, you get the point.

Cam is an upgrade over Barnes and Champagnie, but still the same archetype, just better than what we have.
The team would play the same, he'd play better defense than Barnes and make more 3s than Champagnie, but we'd still get destroyed on the glass because he's another underwhelming rebounder for a forward.

We don't need to push Sochan to improve, he can't be the focus of the team anymore, but an afterthought. He's had three years and made absolutely no jumpshot improvements in zero pressure environment.
Move him to the end of the rotation, if he develops a jumpshot - great, if he doesn't he can go elsewhere.
We won't have the luxury of playing fundamentally flawed players in this upcoming season, it's time to actually make the playoffs.



Key piece? He missed 12/19 playoff games last season.
Celtics were 10-2 without him. Should probably say 11-2 because he had no impact in the closeout game against the Mavs.
His only relevant contribution was that great start of G1 in the finals.

We all have players we irrationally like or dislike, but Porzingis is finished as a serious contributor. Can't be relied on.

Yet again, a classic case of quoting stats that hides key information. Porzingis played 57 games in 2023-24 averaging 20 plus points in 30 minutes with nearly 5 3pa at 38%. And healthy EPM on both defense and offense. The Celtics were 6-1 in the playoffs when he played including the Finals and ECF. These are all in all very good stats for a high level starter and an former All Star who is in his last year of his contract. Getting such a player for dirt cheap to play *Backup* to Wemby is an easy decision. Despite being injury and lately illness prone, he is certainly not done and will be a significant C upgrade as a backup and a spot -PF role.

It's irrational to say that such players are done when reality days otherwise.

As regards Sochan, he showed significant improvement this year in all aspects of the game except for 3P shooting (and even there he improved his efficiency at low volume). With a Defensive EPM of 1.4, Sochan showcased a 80-85%ile impact on Defense and his offensive impact was average, not abysmal. He was the Spurs second best rebounder and on ball defender after Wemby.

The Spurs have known to have backed such players and their development unless they have a much better alternative ready. Sochan, for e.g. will be traded only if the Spurs get the opportunity to get someone like Giannis or KD, I can guarantee that despite the irrational wishful thinking in this forum.

And same goes for Vassell. When there is a need to surround Castle and Wemby with 3P Shooting, the Spurs won't jettison Vassell unless again there is a significant improvement there with other players. It is more likely that the Spurs get other 3P shooters to complement Vassell as role players around the Fox-wemby-Harper-Castle core instead of jettisoning Vassell himself. Which is why I feel that a Cam Johnson and a KP plus a decent PF via the MLE is a more likely consequence than some of the pipedreams here.

[LeBowen]

Yet again, a classic case of quoting stats that hides key information.

Which part of this:


Missed exactly 82 games over the past 3 seasons. 75% availability.
Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until it's 100% certain DVT has been dealt with, we need someone reliable for that backup position and not another player who's a huge injury risk.

Healthy Porzingis would be great, I'd even consider playing him and Wemby together, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.
If we do go for him by some chance, we'd need another reliable big with clean medical record.

was unclear to you?


It's irrational to say that such players are done when reality days otherwise.

Yeah, it really does.
The reality in which he was irrelevant during the Celtics championship run and the same reality in which he was of no help during this season's playoff run.


As regards Sochan, he showed significant improvement this year in all aspects of the game except for 3P shooting (and even there he improved his efficiency at low volume).

No, he didn't.


With a Defensive EPM of 1.4, Sochan showcased a 80-85%ile impact on Defense and his offensive impact was average, not abysmal. He was the Spurs second best rebounder and on ball defender after Wemby.

Noone is questioning his defense which is the only thing that kept him in the rotation.
You can't say he improved on offense when nearly all of his points came from either wide open positions or offensive rebounds, which is his only actually useful skill on offense.
He's got no post moves, his passing is questionable, he can punish mismatches only if the size difference is huge and his good advanced stats on offense are inflated by the fact that he's almost always the 5th option, the player opponents care about the least.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shots-dash?SeasonType=Regular+Season

Check the assisted points percentage and the level of contest he had for most of his layups.


And same goes for Vassell. When there is a need to surround Castle and Wemby with 3P Shooting, the Spurs won't jettison Vassell unless again there is a significant improvement there with other players. It is more likely that the Spurs get other 3P shooters to complement Vassell as role players around the Fox-wemby-Harper-Castle core instead of jettisoning Vassell himself. Which is why I feel that a Cam Johnson and a KP plus a decent PF via the MLE is a more likely consequence than some of the pipedreams here.

Yeah, trading assets for a 29 year old role player and getting an injury risk 30 year old is the most likely outcome.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Which part of this:


Yeah, it really does.
The reality in which he was irrelevant during the Celtics championship run and the same reality in which he was of no help during this season's playoff run.

Only someone who ignores reality would say that Porzingis was irrelevant during the Celtics' championship run. It was Porzingis' addition that lifted the contending Celtics to the championship, made their offense dramatically superior than anyone else and provided the heft over the regular and post-season overall in 2024. His illness in 2025 was one of the key factors in the Celtics' decline. That shows a player who is still valuable. Considering, and I have to reiterate this point despite your refusal to even acknowledge it, he is going to be a backup in the Spurs scheme and that too on an expiring contract for 1 year, it is a risk well worth taking. Rather than trying to get much lower quality Centers to play the 5 behind Wemby. As shown in this season, the Spurs' defense fell off a cliff when Wemby sat because of the lack of a shot blocker. KP can more than fill that position and will clearly be the best backup C in the league.


Noone is questioning his defense which is the only thing that kept him in the rotation.
You can't say he improved on offense when nearly all of his points came from either wide open positions or offensive rebounds, which is his only actually useful skill on offense.
He's got no post moves, his passing is questionable, he can punish mismatches only if the size difference is huge and his good advanced stats on offense are inflated by the fact that he's almost always the 5th option, the player opponents care about the least.

And yet, defense is half the game and is arguably more important in playoff like situations for a role player. If as you put it, Sochan's offensive input hadn't improved at all, it should have shown in the impact statistics such as EPM and DARKO but which clearly shows improvement compared to previous seasons. Which means that the limited things that he does in his off-ball role, Sochan has shown improvement on offense and unlike you who want to judge only on offense, the Spurs think-tank will rate his defensive contributions appropriately to keep him in the squad (unless of course the option is to get Giannis or KD).


Yeah, trading assets for a 29 year old role player and getting an injury risk 30 year old is the most likely outcome.

To ease your comprehension again -

The 29 year old 3P shooting wizard with a 96%ile offensive rating (Cam Johnson) would be a massive upgrade over Keldon Johnson. The loss of the 14th pick could be overcome with a late FRP with which the Spurs can snag a readymade C to play a squad role backup. Its a no brainer for the Spurs unless the Nets ask for way more for Cam Johnson.

Barnes was useful last season but his defense and rebounding was dramatically poor that he was a liability in that end. Replacing his expiring contract with another expiring contract - KP (and for aforementioned reasons) is an upgrade, despite the risks of getting an oft-injured player as a back-up.

Then there is the MLE (tax payer?) that could be useful to snag another PF back-up. Jake La Ravia would be a great get. But perhaps he will command more than just the MLE. Among other retreads, Larry Nance Jr, Guerschon Yabusele and Trey Lyles could also be had on the cheap rather than going for a choice like John Collins, who I dont think can be had easily without dealing FRPs.

I also believe that Sochan's shooting woes are a thing of the past because of the way he has ironed out his noticeable hitch. And that he is in line for a decent improvement in perimeter shooting. But again, that is for us to see only when the season begins.

[Ice009]

Then there is the MLE (tax payer?) that could be useful to snag another PF back-up. Jake La Ravia would be a great get. But perhaps he will command more than just the MLE. Among other retreads, Larry Nance Jr, Guerschon Yabusele and Trey Lyles could also be had on the cheap rather than going for a choice like John Collins, who I dont think can be had easily without dealing FRPs.

I also believe that Sochan's shooting woes are a thing of the past because of the way he has ironed out his noticeable hitch. And that he is in line for a decent improvement in perimeter shooting. But again, that is for us to see only when the season begins.

I'm just going to comment on one thing. Just because it looks like Jeremy has ironed out his hitch, doesn't mean anything yet. We have to wait and see if he can hit the shots in-game. I hope he can, and if so, I'll be really happy, but yeah, gotta wait and see.

Also, did anyone watch Yabusele much? I just followed his stats and kept watch of him by boxscores, but I really want to know how he did on the defensive end? If he was no good on defense or couldn't hold his own, don't think I want him anymore. I'm also not sure what position he played most? Was it PF/C or PF/SF? I know he can score, but we need good defensive players and rebounders.

[LeBowen]

Only someone who ignores reality would say that Porzingis was irrelevant during the Celtics' championship run. It was Porzingis' addition that lifted the contending Celtics to the championship, made their offense dramatically superior than anyone else and provided the heft over the regular and post-season overall in 2024.

His addition made their team game breaking, but even without him they were the best team and won the championship fairly easy.
21-4 in the regular season without Porzingis.
10-2 in the playoffs.
He missed second round and ECF, had that amazing start of G1 against the Mavs, had 12/4/1 in G2 and 5/1/0 in G5.


His illness in 2025 was one of the key factors in the Celtics' decline.

It was a case of everything going wrong for them.
Brown played through torn meniscus.
Jrue played through hamstring injury.
Porzingis was a non-factor due to his issues.
Tatum's injury was the last nail in the coffin.


That shows a player who is still valuable.

You keep reiterating it even though I said I've got no issues with his ability, but availability.


Considering, and I have to reiterate this point despite your refusal to even acknowledge it, he is going to be a backup in the Spurs scheme and that too on an expiring contract for 1 year, it is a risk well worth taking. Rather than trying to get much lower quality Centers to play the 5 behind Wemby. As shown in this season, the Spurs' defense fell off a cliff when Wemby sat because of the lack of a shot blocker. KP can more than fill that position and will clearly be the best backup C in the league.

I'll repeat it one more time.
If we were playing 2k with injuries turned off, it would be a perfect move.

Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until Spurs are 100% sure DVT issues are dealt with.
We need a backup with clean medical record because as you said and as I've said many times in other topics, our team stops being functional as soon as he sits.
Odds of Porzingis being available every time Wemby isn't would be low.
The only way to make that move would be to get another reliable veteran.


And yet, defense is half the game and is arguably more important in playoff like situations for a role player.

Over the past few years one-way role players have been completely eliminated in the playoffs.
The only bad defenders are the elite offensive engines.
We don't see 3-no D guys anymore, regardless of them being replaced with worse shooters and the 3pt volume never being higher.
We don't see defensive specialists who are useless on offense, either.


Sochan's offensive input hadn't improved at all, it should have shown in the impact statistics such as EPM and DARKO but which clearly shows improvement compared to previous seasons.

His advanced stats improved because he was put in way better positions compared to the ridiculous experiment of trying to develop him into a ballhandler.
The biggest question is if it's worth adapting to Jeremy's lack of spacing?
Our roster will go through major changes between this and the next season's opening night.

Castle was an unknown, now he's a building block.
Fox is the all-star point guard addition.
Harper will be another drive-first point guard.

All three of them would greatly benefit from both wings being able to shoot the ball well.
Is it worth setting back the entire team offensively just because Jeremy is an above average defender?


John Collins, who I dont think can be had easily without dealing FRPs.

Collins has a player option, Ainge can't really ask for much.
Either he walks or a S&T happens.