Spurs' future draft picks

[Mr. Body]

Early entry list very important. Sites have guys like Spencer Hawes on the list that I don't think will go pro.

Spurs will need to trade up if they want their SF, unless it's McGuire and he pans out. Other guys like Jared Dudley might be available, but I don't see them as solutions. Taking a guy like Tucker or Byars gives you, probably, a bench player instead of a longtime starter.

[wildbill2u]

Early entry list very important. Sites have guys like Spencer Hawes on the list that I don't think will go pro.

Spurs will need to trade up if they want their SF, unless it's McGuire and he pans out. Other guys like Jared Dudley might be available, but I don't see them as solutions. Taking a guy like Tucker or Byars gives you, probably, a bench player instead of a longtime starter.
McGuire has announced recently that he's coming out. He looks like he may be the athletic SF we've been looking for--and he's probably gonna be in our range in the draft. These kids are all gambles once you get out of the lottery picks but he's as good as any that might still be around when we pick.

[AFBlue]

McGuire has announced recently that he's coming out. He looks like he may be the athletic SF we've been looking for--and he's probably gonna be in our range in the draft. These kids are all gambles once you get out of the lottery picks but he's as good as any that might still be around when we pick.

The thing about McGuire is that he hasn't hired an agent, so I think he'll do the workouts and assess his draft stock before coming out. If he has good workouts and gets strong indication that he'll go in the first round, I think he stays. That doesn't mean he won't fall to the first part of the second, but with Julian Wright going back to Kansas, McGuire's draft stock as one of the few SF increases.

[mardigan]

The thing about McGuire is that he hasn't hired an agent, so I think he'll do the workouts and assess his draft stock before coming out. If he has good workouts and gets strong indication that he'll go in the first round, I think he stays. That doesn't mean he won't fall to the first part of the second, but with Julian Wright going back to Kansas, McGuire's draft stock as one of the few SF increases.
Byars=The next Josh Howard
The Spurs can make up for not taking Howard by taking Byars :)

[mountainballer]

Bulls win again, Cavs lose again.
Bulls now are 1/2 game behind.
Tomorrow Cavs and Bulls meet in Chicago.
Bulls will for sure try everything to catch the Cavs and get the no.2 seat. (otherwise they would fall to no.5, play the Raptors or Wizards in the first and likely meet the Pistons in the 2nd round)

so for us the no.53 pick looks realistic again.

[AFBlue]

Byars=The next Josh Howard
The Spurs can make up for not taking Howard by taking Byars :)

On Byars, Chad Ford (who is ESPNs NBA Draft Specialist) responded to a Chat question saying that the #12 prediction (NBAdraft.net) was wildly too high and that he has MUCH less athleticism than Thornton and isn't a better shooter/scorer than Morris Almond...but that was a better comparison. He set Byars draft position firmly in the second round.

I'm not saying I trust wholeheartedly in ESPN, but NBAdraft.net is the only one that has Byars in the first...

BTW, I don't understand the random picks by NBAdraft.net...they have the Spurs getting combo guard Gabe Pruitt and then PG Bobby Brown in the second....where's the understanding for a needed 3?

[Bruno]

BTW, I don't understand the random picks by NBAdraft.net...they have the Spurs getting combo guard Gabe Pruitt and then PG Bobby Brown in the second....where's the understanding for a needed 3?

Early mock draft aren't based at all on teams needs, it's just a ranking of players. Gabe Pruitt at 28th just means that he is the 28th best prospect and not that they think that Spurs should/could draft him.

Another think to consider about Spurs and the future draft is that Spurs won't have a lot of roster spots available if they don't do some trades or waive some players. As it stands,Spurs second round pick and Bulls second round pick (if Spurs get it) will likely be traded or used to draft euros who stay overseas and I can see too Spurs trading either their first round pick or Bucks second round pick. Spurs should only add one player (maybe two but I won't bet on it) from the 07 draft to their roster next year.

[AFBlue]

Early mock draft aren't based at all on teams needs, it's just a ranking of players. Gabe Pruitt at 28th just means that he is the 28th best prospect and not that they think that Spurs should/could draft him.

Another think to consider about Spurs and the future draft is that Spurs won't have a lot of roster spots available if they don't do some trades or waive some players. As it stands,Spurs second round pick and Bulls second round pick (if Spurs get it) will likely be traded or used to draft euros who stay overseas and I can see too Spurs trading either their first round pick or Bucks second round pick. Spurs should only add one player (maybe two but I won't bet on it) from the 07 draft to their roster next year.

Thanks for the info, but that's somewhat misleading on their part.

I see your point on the # of roster spots, which is why I think only one of the prospects would be on the roster next year.

I could see a scenario where the Spurs snag a high-potential international prospect (Fernandez, Belinelli, Tomic) to stash for maybe a year, and then grab the SF in the early second (McGuire, Terry) to add to the roster for next season. The last two picks could either be traded away or used to grab some more international prospects...

[Mr. Body]

If the Spurs wind up draft-n-stashing the first rounder and pulling an only passable player like Rayshawn Terry with the Milwaukee pick, that would IMO be a disaster. In my estimation, this team needs to add two good young talents who are not currently on the roster. Though he isn't exactly 'young', one of those two can be Luis Scola.

There will be a roster crunch, sure. The way I see it:

Robert Horry is retiring, his spot is open.

Beno Udrih - this is the last time he will have any real value, is a cheap contract, and might still flourish in another system; he will be traded.

Jackie Butler - do they want him anymore? I could see him go in a package or to wherever Larry Brown is, etc. He's cheap but doesn't seem to be what the Spurs need. If they can draft a Craig Bradshaw, Butler is absolutely gone.

Melvin Ely - depends on what happens to Butler and other big guys. His spot is essentially open.

Fabricio Oberto - slim chance he opts out and goes overseas, but I don't think so.

James White - that decent performance gave a little pause, although against GSW. Keep, unless a better young SF prospect can be had, which is definitely possible.

Jacque Vaughn - resigned.

Francisco Elson - kept.

So... two spots will open up, at least: Horry's, and either Ely's or Butler's (or both). This could very well be the summer Brent Barry is traded, too, if the Spurs think they can get their young SF packaging him with Scola + picks or something like that, although of course that wouldn't necessarily open a slot.

If I were the Spurs, I would prioritize moving up in the draft. After that, they should have contingencies in place depending on what players become available. I doubt Ian Mahinmi comes over this summer. And again, I think the Spurs need two valuable new players to come in this summer

[mathbzh]

I doubt Ian Mahinmi comes over this summer. And again, I think the Spurs need two valuable new players to come in this summer

If Mahinmi doesn't play more with Pau, I hope he will come this summer. But he will go directly to NBDL.

[Mr. Body]

If Mahinmi doesn't play more with Pau, I hope he will come this summer. But he will go directly to NBDL.

He still takes a roster space if he plays NBDL. I don't see that happening.

[Bruno]

If Mahinmi doesn't play more with Pau, I hope he will come this summer. But he will go directly to NBDL.

It's unlikely that Mahinmi will be with Pau next year.
Mahinmi is the backup C for Pau this year and Pau's staff has still said that next year backup C will be Ludovic Vaty (a promising young player).
I've heard too some rumors that said that Mahinmi will sign with Spurs this summer. We will see what will happen this summer but if I had to bet on something it would be on Mahinmi signing with Spurs this summer.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ian mahinmi looks like fuckn busts now

lets move on...

[AFBlue]

With a draft this deep, it's tough to see how it could be a disaster...

I wouldn't call getting Fernandez, Belinelli, and Tomic (and possibly Batum or Gallinari if they declare), a disaster. The Spurs can keep them overseas for one more year while the contracts of Barry, Finley, and Elson expire and give the Spurs one more year to evaluate their options at whatever position that prospect holds.

On Terry/McGuire, I would consider them good young talents. Terry has the athleticism and shooting touch to play in this league...reminds me of Stephen Jackson without the gun-toting. McGuire doesn't have the constant shooting stroke, but he is a good passer, slasher, and defender. I think both would be "good, young" additions.

[Mr. Body]

'Disaster' is perhaps too strong, but we absolutely need those two young players next year. If we draft Fernandez and keep him overseas a year, draft Derrick Byars with the Milwaukee pick, and bring over Luis Scola, then that will be a success for me. 'Pick-n-stash' to me reads Ian Mahinmi. Taking a guy who doesn't really deserve that pick in order to 'get in front of everyone.' If all we get out of this draft next year is Rashawn Terry, that will be a major fuck-up, even if we do get Fernandez for the future somewhere along the line, though I suppose that could be mollified by trading Barry/etc. for a young guy already in the league.

[AFBlue]

On Mahinmi, I've read that the Spurs will try to bring him over, but he's D-League material and will occupy a potentially valuable slot. Maybe they'll ask Fabbs to opt out of his contract or cut someone...

[AFBlue]

'Disaster' is perhaps too strong, but we absolutely need those two young players next year. If we draft Fernandez and keep him overseas a year, draft Derrick Byars with the Milwaukee pick, and bring over Luis Scola, then that will be a success for me. 'Pick-n-stash' to me reads Ian Mahinmi. Taking a guy who doesn't really deserve that pick in order to 'get in front of everyone.' If all we get out of this draft next year is Rashawn Terry, that will be a major fuck-up, even if we do get Fernandez for the future somewhere along the line, though I suppose that could be mollified by trading Barry/etc. for a young guy already in the league.

The reason I'm not high on Byars (for this squad) is that he's not big enough to play the 4 in small-ball sets because he doesn't rebound enough. As presently constructed, the Spurs don't have a legitimate option for the smallball 4. The "ideal" guy for the job is McGuire.

[Mr. Body]

As many as these will not be Spurs next year: White, Butler, Horry, Udrih, Oberto, Ely, and maybe Barry.

We cannot go through another year without a significant roster overhaul, at least at the bench level. We cannot convince ourselves after another close loss to the Mavericks that this team won't break down from age.

[Mr. Body]

The reason I'm not high on Byars (for this squad) is that he's not big enough to play the 4 in small-ball sets because he doesn't rebound enough. As presently constructed, the Spurs don't have a legitimate option for the smallball 4. The "ideal" guy for the job is McGuire.

Byars would be a great pick in the 2nd round. Not ideal, but very nice should he be there. We need talent in general, even if it is not the optimal SF. If a good player doesn't fit, we can always shop him.

Edited: McGuire and Byars collect the same number of rebounds. Byars did play more minutes, but in a better conference. I'd take McGuire, but to say Byars doesn't rebound is not correct. 4.9/game.

[Mr. Body]

DX says there's a good chance Chase Buddinger declares for the draft. They say he will go Top 10.

[K-State Spur]

Beno Udrih - this is the last time he will have any real value, is a cheap contract, and might still flourish in another system; he will be traded.



I disagree that Beno will have any value this offseason (let alone real value). The only way he gains value is by playing back to somewhere in the same area code as his potential once showed (I know he's been better of late, but that's not saying a lot).

I think he'll be back. He's still got a high ceiling as far as third PGs go.

[AFBlue]

As many as these will not be Spurs in 2008: White, Butler, Horry, Udrih, Oberto, Ely, and Barry.

We cannot go through another year without a significant roster overhaul, at least at the bench level. We cannot convince ourselves after another close loss to the Mavericks that this team won't break down from age.

Fixed that for you. Contractually...Butler, Udrih, Oberto, Barry, and Finley are supposed to be with us next year.

I don't disagree that the Spurs have legitimate concerns (lack of "scorers", no "small-ball 4", solid backup PG, etc.), but it just doesn't look like the Spurs have the roster spaces available. You would have to guarantee that one or more of the personnel mentioned above are traded and/or cut by roster-trimming time, keeping in mind that the Spurs won't just GIVE them away.

[AFBlue]

Byars would be a great pick in the 2nd round. Not ideal, but very nice should he be there. We need talent in general, even if it is not the optimal SF. If a good player doesn't fit, we can always shop him.

Edited: McGuire and Byars collect the same number of rebounds. Byars did play more minutes, but in a better conference. I'd take McGuire, but to say Byars doesn't rebound is not correct. 4.9/game.

Where are you getting your info?

Yes, Byars at 4.9 in 31MPG, but that's where you stop being right.

McGuire's rebound average this year was 9.8RPG in 32min!

And for good measure....Terry's rebound rate in 24 minutes last year was 6.2. This year, slumped to 5.4 in 21 minutes. Sorry Mr, you're wrong.

[AFBlue]

DX says there's a good chance Chase Buddinger declares for the draft. They say he will go Top 10.

One more warm body is good for the Spurs. I wonder if his teammate Marcus Williams follows him out the door.

EDIT: Read the article, and it looks like Williams will indeed be headed to the NBA, though it's not official.

[mountainballer]

If the Spurs wind up draft-n-stashing the first rounder and pulling an only passable player like Rayshawn Terry with the Milwaukee pick, that would IMO be a disaster. In my estimation, this team needs to add two good young talents who are not currently on the roster. Though he isn't exactly 'young', one of those two can be Luis Scola.

There will be a roster crunch, sure. The way I see it:

Robert Horry is retiring, his spot is open.

Beno Udrih - this is the last time he will have any real value, is a cheap contract, and might still flourish in another system; he will be traded.

Jackie Butler - do they want him anymore? I could see him go in a package or to wherever Larry Brown is, etc. He's cheap but doesn't seem to be what the Spurs need. If they can draft a Craig Bradshaw, Butler is absolutely gone.

Melvin Ely - depends on what happens to Butler and other big guys. His spot is essentially open.

Fabricio Oberto - slim chance he opts out and goes overseas, but I don't think so.

James White - that decent performance gave a little pause, although against GSW. Keep, unless a better young SF prospect can be had, which is definitely possible.

Jacque Vaughn - resigned.

Francisco Elson - kept.

So... two spots will open up, at least: Horry's, and either Ely's or Butler's (or both). This could very well be the summer Brent Barry is traded, too, if the Spurs think they can get their young SF packaging him with Scola + picks or something like that, although of course that wouldn't necessarily open a slot.

If I were the Spurs, I would prioritize moving up in the draft. After that, they should have contingencies in place depending on what players become available. I doubt Ian Mahinmi comes over this summer. And again, I think the Spurs need two valuable new players to come in this summer

you forgot Bonner. this would make it 9 question marks.
I think Spurs want to keep Bonner, but for sure this isn't their priority this summer. he is restricted, so Spurs can wait what other teams offer, I assume that the Spurs won't offer him a big contract anyhow.
(likely in the same area what they payed this year. 2 million, maybe slightly more). with Horry likely retiring and Bonner a question mark, it would be even more important to have the Scola option.
IMO Spurs have to see it this way. they likely won't get a player with the same immediat impact potential via free agency or trade, considering the money and/or trade assets they currently have.

on the other mentioned I also agree with your estimation.
Spurs will try to resign Vaughn (which would be a good move), assuming Vaughn signs for the veteran minimum. they won't/can't pay him more.

Beno will be gone, no matter if Vaughn resigns or not. maybe for another underachiever, when both teams hope the players will flourish with the other team. (someone like Julius Hodge, David Harrison, Kirk Snyder, ....just to mention a few names of teams that might be interested in a PG).
Khryapa still as a wish scenario for me, but not likely in a trade just for Beno.
Pavlovic and Delfino are out of reach, but maybe a possibility with some teasers.

word is, they don't want Butler anymore and would love to get rid of him. and I gurss Butler would also love to somehow get out.
as I see it, they will try to trade him (in a package with Beno?), but if this fails, they will buy him out. Butler would accept a buyout, because another year out of the league would hurt his stock more, than accepting a buyout. (half of his contract?). but this would open another roster spot.

I guess Ely will be gone. nothing points towards a resigning. Spurs have his bird rights, so maybe a S&T is a possible scenario, if another team likes Ely.

about White the Spurs will decide when they have learned what they got out of the draft. they might find a SF, who is more NBA ready and has more upside than White, in this case they will either trade him, or just waive him. I don't think that the Spurs use 2 spots for 2 SF rookies. (I call White an as well as rookie, if he was on the roster next year). my guess is, we won't see Whie with the Spurs next year. this draft just looks as if there are better players for his position available.

I really can't see Mahinmi at the roster, would be very surprised.
my guess is, they would rather pick an available big with the Buck's pick (Visser, Hill, Fazekas, Davis?), after they had picked the SF (McGuire) with the 1st rounder.

I think we might see 3 rookies on the roster next year, with Scola as a seasoned one of them.

[AFBlue]

DX says there's a good chance Chase Buddinger declares for the draft. They say he will go Top 10.

Here's the link to that article. It not only talks about Budinger, but about most every prospect likely to go in draft if declaring...a good read if you're interested.

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1956

[mardigan]

Everything Ive read from scouting reports, and seen watching him play 6 or 7 times this year, has shown me Byars is a great rebounder. He is 6-7, Finleys size except bigger and stronger, so I dont see how if Finley could play the 4 in small ball, Byars couldnt. 5 rebounds a game from your shooting guard position in 31 minutes a game is pretty damn good Tony. He is about 230, very strong at his position and a good rebounder. He is also a very polished shooter with good range and ball-handling skills. He really does remind me of Josh Howard with his all around game, not to mention that he stayed in school to get his degree, and he was the SEC player of the year. I really think it would be a mistake to not take this guy.

[AFBlue]

you forgot Bonner. this would make it 9 question marks.
I think Spurs want to keep Bonner, but for sure this isn't their priority this summer. he is restricted, so Spurs can wait what other teams offer, I assume that the Spurs won't offer him a big contract anyhow.
(likely in the same area what they payed this year. 2 million, maybe slightly more). with Horry likely retiring and Bonner a question mark, it would be even more important to have the Scola option.

I didn't know that Bonner was a restricted FA....interesting. I definitely think the Spurs will look to re-sign him in the off-season, though you're right about him not being overpaid.



on the other mentioned I also agree with your estimation.
Spurs will try to resign Vaughn (which would be a good move), assuming Vaughn signs for the veteran minimum. they won't/can't pay him more.

Beno will be gone, no matter if Vaughn resigns or not. maybe for another underachiever, when both teams hope the players will flourish with the other team. (someone like Julius Hodge, David Harrison, Kirk Snyder, ....just to mention a few names of teams that might be interested in a PG).
Khryapa still as a wish scenario for me, but not likely in a trade just for Beno.
Pavlovic and Delfino are out of reach, but maybe a possibility with some teasers.

I think Udrih sticks on this team and rides out his contract, unless the Spurs grab a legit point guard prospect via the draft or FA (and I don't mean Vaughn), then they can afford to dump him for nothing. His value just isn't that high and the Spurs aren't willing to let him go for nothing.


word is, they don't want Butler anymore and would love to get rid of him. and I gurss Butler would also love to somehow get out.
as I see it, they will try to trade him (in a package with Beno?), but if this fails, they will buy him out. Butler would accept a buyout, because another year out of the league would hurt his stock more, than accepting a buyout. (half of his contract?). but this would open another roster spot.

I don't know if the Spurs would "love" to get rid of a 22yr old F/C with good post skills. I've read that they've been disappointed with his work ethic and I'm sure they'll look to trade him...but as with Udrih, they won't give him up for scraps, and I steadfastly refuse to believe they'll cut him outright. Someone will bite if they offer him, but I think the Spurs will at least give him the Summer League to see if he can improve/prove his worth to the team.


about White the Spurs will decide when they have learned what they got out of the draft. they might find a SF, who is more NBA ready and has more upside than White, in this case they will either trade him, or just waive him. I don't think that the Spurs use 2 spots for 2 SF rookies. (I call White an as well as rookie, if he was on the roster next year). my guess is, we won't see Whie with the Spurs next year. this draft just looks as if there are better players for his position available.

If the Spurs grab a guy like Byars or Rush, who play the same role (2 or 3 w/ defense), I agree. But, if the Spurs snag a guy like McGuire, Terry, or Dudley...who are more 3/4 combos with different skill sets, I think both can co-exist on the team. Just because they're both labeled "SF" doesn't mean they can't serve different purposes or be on this team.

[AFBlue]

Everything Ive read from scouting reports, and seen watching him play 6 or 7 times this year, has shown me Byars is a great rebounder. He is 6-7, Finleys size except bigger and stronger, so I dont see how if Finley could play the 4 in small ball, Byars couldnt. 5 rebounds a game from your shooting guard position in 31 minutes a game is pretty damn good Tony. He is about 230, very strong at his position and a good rebounder. He is also a very polished shooter with good range and ball-handling skills. He really does remind me of Josh Howard with his all around game, not to mention that he stayed in school to get his degree, and he was the SEC player of the year. I really think it would be a mistake to not take this guy.

I'd say Finley is probably one of the best comparisons you could give to Byars. He's probably not as good of a shooter or athlete, but he's got a better handle and can pass. The Finley comparison as a rebounder is probably pretty accurate...but that doesn't mean much. Byars would be a good/great rebounder as a SG, a passable rebounder as a SF, and a below-average rebounder for a PF. Finley is a horrible small-ball 4...hence the need for a legitimate one.

[Mr. Body]

Where are you getting your info?

Yes, Byars at 4.9 in 31MPG, but that's where you stop being right.

McGuire's rebound average this year was 9.8RPG in 32min!

And for good measure....Terry's rebound rate in 24 minutes last year was 6.2. This year, slumped to 5.4 in 21 minutes. Sorry Mr, you're wrong.

DX, but they were posting his last played year in California (4.9). In Fresno State he did average 9.8, which is very significant, although in a much weaker conference than the PAC-10.

I'm still no fan of Terry. Bleh.

[Mr. Body]

you forgot Bonner. this would make it 9 question marks.
I think Spurs want to keep Bonner, but for sure this isn't their priority this summer. he is restricted, so Spurs can wait what other teams offer, I assume that the Spurs won't offer him a big contract anyhow.

I think Bonner will be a Spur again, and for about $2 million/year. I do think Vaughn will be resigned and will be the back-up PG next year.

Butler and Udrih I see as gone. Udrih, definitely. And yes, he does still have value. He has one more guaranteed year on his contract and has absolutely proven to be an NBA-type talent, despite what naysayers here say. There is a team out there who will like to have a decent back-up type who still has youth and some upside. Look at the Clippers, without Livingston and a craggy, ancient Cassell, or Cleveland, etc. Butler is still a decent prospect, also cheap, with two years left on his contract.

I see 4-5 players on this team who will not be around next year. James White IMO they'll keep, unless something bizarre happens in the draft, etc. That glowing article in re: his attitude and coachability means a lot.

[K-State Spur]

Depends on what you mean by value. Beno MIGHT be able to net a pick in the latter half of the second round to a team starving for PG help or one that has enough depth that they can afford to sit on him and hope he realizes his potential.

[Mr. Body]

That's exactly what I mean. They're not going to get much for him, but they'll get rid of him. Future second will do it.

[Bruno]

Trading Beno will open a roster spot but I don't see Spurs starting next season with only 2 PGs so it will only open a roster spot for another PG. If Spurs don't think there is an interesting PG prospect available via the draft or FA, if they can't get something good for Beno and if they are fine with his salary, trading Beno is pointless.
Dumping Beno won't open a spot for an athletic swingman or a bigman.

[ducks_]

Spurs need help in backcourt
will not be good next year
if no draft picks work out.

[T Park]

order of importance.

Small Forward
Athletic 4
point guard.


You could get by with someone in the NBDL who was considered the "best"

[mountainballer]

order of importance.

Small Forward
Athletic 4
point guard.


I would say the SF as the primary need is out of question, but after this the Spurs could well use an upgrade (better youth injection) at every position, so they should go for best talent, whatever position.
if a center with more potential than Elson, Oberto and Butler is on the board (quite a possibility) pick him. (Visser?).

about the athletic 4:
Sean Williams is the anti Spurs. but thanks to his stupidness and the half season suspension he is expectad to slip far down the board. he was once expected to be even a possible lottery pick, for sure a 1st rounder.
now the boards see him go mid 2nd round.

question to the forum: if the Spurs finally (and unexpected) get the Bulls 2nd rounder and Williams was still there.
would you risk this pick on him? in terms of athleticismn he is one of the best (if not THE best) in this draft class.
his potential on defense is probably the best of all bigs this year.
so would you bite and hope that an environment like the Spurs can change him? if it works, the upside is huge. if not, we have lost a pick we never thought we will ever get anyhow.

[mountainballer]

some might have noticed, that Marc Gasol is climbing up the mocks a bit, (nbadraft.net has him even at no.20), thanks to a decent season in Spain.
I once wrote, that I hope the Spurs don't consider to pick him, because I think he is a talented, but slow,unathletic and lazy player.
however, if he rises, he will push a potential Spurs target a slot lower.
but I have to admit, that Gasol looks better than the last years in fact.
last year with Barcelona he was terrible and I thought the only reason why he is there is, because his name is Gasol and he stands 7-1. (in the WC he looked better though).
changing the team this summer has helped and maybe he has realized, that he has to improve his conditioning, if he want's to get a chance in the NBA.
right now I'm no longer sure that Spurs should preclude to pick Gasol with the 2nd rounder if he is still on the board.
yes, he will never be a good athlete, but same goes for Oberto.
with the difference that Gasol is 7-1 and 285 lbs.

another reason why Gasol might be attracting the Spurs FO. when they have to pick, they don't know what will happen with almost all of their bigs.

Oberto might opt out.
Horry might (better will) retire, despite another year on his contract.
Butler will be on the trading block.
Ely is a FA and likely won't be resigned.
Bonner is a FA.
Mahinmi is years away.
Scola still very questionable.
so only Tim and Elson are a sure thing.

if the Spurs pick Gasol (who is much more NBA ready than Mahinmi) they can wait how the whole big man situation turns out during the summer and then decide if they add him this summer or leave him in Europe (an option the Spurs FO likes, as we know).
the only other compareable scenarios for drafting an international player as injurance for the big men situation this summer are Mirza Begic and Ali Traore, but IMO both are much less intriguing.

so yes, I can see the Spurs pick Gasol.

edit: I just thought that last year the first plan of Spurs FO was to sign Joel Przybilla. in other words, they did think of installing a big space eater in the middle, befor they went athletic with Elson. so they might also see a role for the slow but big Gasol.

[YODA]

Ok, Im no expert on this, but before I could comment, id need to know what players currently have gauranteed contracts for next year. PLEASE correct me on this.
1. Parker Locked up Long term
2. Duncan Locked up long term
3. Manu LOcked up long term
4. Bowen I think he only locked up till next year?
5. Elson no idea
6. Oberto optional contract till next yeaR??
7. Barry locked up one more year?
8. Finley I believe he had a 3 year deal,,,thus one more year left
9. White no idea
10. Vaughn no idea, Id like him as back up one more year
11. Beno didnt they lock his option up for next year? but likely gone or traded
12. Butler no idea, though id expect he is gone next year
13. Ely, no idea
14. Bonner no idea
15. Horry isn this last year of contract?? likely gone

Could anyone give me a place to get detailed info on this?

Thus of the 15 players, how many will be gone next year?? Im thinking
1. Horry probably retire
2. Beno probably traded for future pick
3. Butler if we havent seen him by now, i doubt we will ever see him
4. ely, guess he could make the team next year, but ill say no for now

that leaves 4 spots open for next year
Ill assume Brent, Finley and Bowen are after gone next year too

Yoda .....Totally lost on the contracts....

[Mr. Body]

Hoopshype salary page is a great source: Spurs' salaries (http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm)

I agree with your assessment. All those players will be gone, with Beno and Butler traded off. Not getting much, but clearing space and contracts. At minimum I see 4 spots freeing up.

[mountainballer]

DX has an article about the latest rumors, who will likely enter the early entry list and who will go back to school. some are quite interesting for the Spurs.

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1956

Hansbrough and Thabeet will likely go back to school, but Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Thaddeus Young and maybe also Javaris Crittenton are expected to enter the draft.

Collison would be a bit surprising, on the other hand there are some good reasons for PGs to enter this years draft and not 2008, which is expected to be very deep at PG with 2 outstanding PG prospects in Mayo and Rose, who might take all the attention away from the not so great prospects (like Collison and Crittenton).

all the 4 mentioned players might slip to the Spurs pick area, none did impress in the tournament.
Young would be what the Spurs need, but he's very raw, would take likely two seasons, till he makes the impact at SF we would rather need immediatly.
Collison is a very interesting prospect. (if he declares he should be picked somewhere around 20).
I know that Spurs need a SF, but if Collison was there, it would be a tough call to pass on him. (assuming the more interesting SFs are gone)
he is exactly the kind of back-up PG, the Spurs would love to have.
(superb defender with Tony's speed and good attitude and work ethik)

[Bruno]

A little update about Spurs' picks situation :

- Spurs own picks should be 28th and 58th at the end of the season : Spurs are far from Suns now and Jazz have 4 more losses.

- Bucks pick should be 32nd-34th (currently 33rd) : Bucks have 2 more wins than Boston and 2 less than Atlanta and they will play 2 times against Boston and one time against Atlanta. They are obviously tanking (Redd hasn't played the last game) but they have too some players who plays for a contract (Paterson, Williams...).

- Spurs can still get Bulls second round pick. To get that pick they need to catch Cleveland (Bulls are 44-31 and Cavs are 44-30). If Bulls catch Cavs, Spurs will get the 54th pick.

Another thing to notice is that tie breakers for the draft aren't the same than Playoffs tie breakers. Draft tie breakers are coin flips and the draw take place few days after the end of the regular season (April 21st last year).

[yavozerb]

The spurs are going to re-sign bonner and vaughn this summer. The option for bowen will also be picked up ,Oberto would be stupid not to pick up his option (no one else probably wants him), and finley well def. be back next year, Horry will hopefully retire. If the spurs can move beno and butler this would leave 2 spots open for the active roster. The Spurs will draft athletic 4 and PG which both will make the team. Other picks will be young players overseas or traded in order to move up in 1st round.

[Mr. Body]

Hansbrough and Thabeet will likely go back to school, but Darren Collison, Josh Shipp, Thaddeus Young and maybe also Javaris Crittenton are expected to enter the draft.

Thaddeus Young surprises me, but that's good for the Spurs. Another top SF prospect increases their chances of seeing someone within their grasp. I would put him behind Green and Brewer by about 10 spots and behind Thornton by about 5 or so, depending on how he works out. He's a project, but his attitude (AFAIK) and skill set are both very good.

I still think in order to get a very good SF the Spurs have to trade up.

Crittenton coming out helps the Spurs slightly in the chance a good PG falls to the Milwaukee pick. Darren Collison would make an exceptional back-up, with his defensive intensity, but he pulls out if it looks like he's not a first rounder, right?

[mountainballer]

Crittenton coming out helps the Spurs slightly in the chance a good PG falls to the Milwaukee pick. Darren Collison would make an exceptional back-up, with his defensive intensity, but he pulls out if it looks like he's not a first rounder, right?

yes, as I see it Collison will for sure withdraw, if he isn't sure to be picked 1st round. he should go somewhere between 18 and 25. there are enough teams in need of a PG, so he won't slip to 2nd round. (in other words: to our 2nd round pick). maybe his best case scenario are the Pistons at no. 16.
Pistons need a backup PG desperatly, but might even see Billups walk away. even if most expect the Pistons to pick a big, drafting Collison would make much sense for them.
(and gives them another great small ball option, if they play Billups at SG, Collison PG, Hamilton SF, Prince PF and Sheed at C)
Sixers at 18, Heat at 19 are other candidates and Lakers at 20 should for sure take him (considering also the hometown factor, Collison is from the LA area and a UCLA boy). Collison + Kobe could provide the best back-court defense in the whole league.

[mountainballer]

The spurs are going to re-sign bonner and vaughn this summer. The option for bowen will also be picked up ,Oberto would be stupid not to pick up his option (no one else probably wants him), and finley well def. be back next year, Horry will hopefully retire. If the spurs can move beno and butler this would leave 2 spots open for the active roster. The Spurs will draft athletic 4 and PG which both will make the team. Other picks will be young players overseas or traded in order to move up in 1st round.

Spurs likely will have more open spots than the mentioned 2.
(Horry ret., Ely not resigned, Butler and Beno moved, White probably also, if a similar player is drafted).
I could see a buyout of Oberto's option.
why?
if Spurs buy-out his last season for half of the number, it would help them to stay out of lux tax. Oberto would make about 1 million in Europe, so he wouldn't lose money, but get more opportunities to play. he still has a very good name in Europe and some teams might offer him a nice 2-3 years contract. (probably his former team Tau, considering they will likely lose Scola and Splitter)

[AFBlue]

The spurs are going to re-sign bonner and vaughn this summer. The option for bowen will also be picked up ,Oberto would be stupid not to pick up his option (no one else probably wants him), and finley well def. be back next year, Horry will hopefully retire. If the spurs can move beno and butler this would leave 2 spots open for the active roster. The Spurs will draft athletic 4 and PG which both will make the team. Other picks will be young players overseas or traded in order to move up in 1st round.

Wow, so difinitive....

I, for one, don't think it's a given that Bonner is back next year. He's still just a role-player and the Spurs won't overspend for those types (learned from Malik Rose situation). If he accepts $2M or so, then it's likely, but if he's looking for a payday I think there will be plenty of teams searching for a big that can shoot and hustle.

I also only think that Beno gets moved if you're right about the backup PG position being addressed in the off-season...as seen with the past deadline, they won't get rid of him (or Butler for that matter) for nothing.

Nice conviction, but I doubt things are as certain as you make them seem...

[AFBlue]

Crittenton will surely get snagged in the first if he comes out. A big PG that thinks pass-first is a GMs dream. Agree with comments about Collison that he's likely to return if he doesn't get good feeling about going in the first, and it might be to his benefit....Kevin Love looks like the real deal.

[AFBlue]

Spurs likely will have more open spots than the mentioned 2.
(Horry ret., Ely not resigned, Butler and Beno moved, White probably also, if a similar player is drafted).
I could see a buyout of Oberto's option.
why?
if Spurs buy-out his last season for half of the number, it would help them to stay out of lux tax. Oberto would make about 1 million in Europe, so he wouldn't lose money, but get more opportunities to play. he still has a very good name in Europe and some teams might offer him a nice 2-3 years contract. (probably his former team Tau, considering they will likely lose Scola and Splitter)

See the possible Oberto buyout scenario, see Horry retiring or Spurs moving forward without him, see Ely not being re-signed, but I don't see how it's a foregone conclusion that Beno and Butler are goners....especially since they would have to be moved for next-to-nothing in order to trim the roster down to 15.

[mountainballer]

I, for one, don't think it's a given that Bonner is back next year. He's still just a role-player and the Spurs won't overspend for those types (learned from Malik Rose situation). If he accepts $2M or so, then it's likely, but if he's looking for a payday I think there will be plenty of teams searching for a big that can shoot and hustle.


agree on this.
most assume that Bonner will be resigned, but forget that Spurs for sure won't want to pay much more than they already do. if another team offers him 3.5-4 million, I can't see the Spurs match.
Bonner is a great guy, but his role will never be bigger than 15-20 minutes IMO.
Bonner is already 27, so this will be his chance to get a longer term contract. if another team offers him like 3years/10+million, he will likely bite.(and Spurs likely not match)
he never made the big bucks and even if he is a very low key guy, he won't leave 5 or more millions on the table, just to be a no.8 or no.9 player with the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

I wouldn't say foregone conclusion to Udrih and Butler being gone. But now is the time they have some last minor value. The Spurs are done with Udrih and he's cheap and has some upside. I don't think they intend to completely wear out his value. Butler is still a big guy with unknown upside that might appeal to someone who needs a body. Getting rid of him depends on how they do getting another big man in this year.

I'd say it's 95% likely Udrih is traded, 50% or so Butler is traded.

[Mavschick]

What about this guy?

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/gabepruitt.html

NBADraft.net has him going to the Spurs and compares him to Devin Harris. Besides having good size for a PG, he has blazing speed and is a solid defender, and unlike Harris he has some shooting range. He sounds like a young Chauncey Billups.

[mountainballer]

but I don't see how it's a foregone conclusion that Beno and Butler are goners....especially since they would have to be moved for next-to-nothing in order to trim the roster down to 15.

let's say it different. Spurs will try very hard to move them and not look for huge compensation in return.
Butler might have some value left, something that would change if he spends another year on the inactive list.
Beno might be swaped with another underachiver, when both teams hope that the other player will flourish in their system.
of course it is not sure that they are gone, but I see the chances much higher than that we will see them again next season.

edit: just saw the Body already argued the same way I did. so just a duplication of thoughts.

[Mr. Body]

What about this guy?

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/gabepruitt.html

NBADraft.net has him going to the Spurs and compares him to Devin Harris. Besides having good size for a PG, he has blazing speed and is a solid defender, and unlike Harris he has some shooting range. He sounds like a young Chauncey Billups.

I like Pruitt and as a back-up PG he'd be a good investment. I think he pulls out if he looks like a 2nd round pick and I don't see the Spurs drafting a back-up PG in the 1st round. If they pull a PG in the 2nd draft it will need to be a senior, I think, like Bobby Brown or Zabian Dowdell.

[AFBlue]

What about this guy?

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/gabepruitt.html

NBADraft.net has him going to the Spurs and compares him to Devin Harris. Besides having good size for a PG, he has blazing speed and is a solid defender, and unlike Harris he has some shooting range. He sounds like a young Chauncey Billups.

If the Spurs snag a guy like this, then it's a certainty that Beno is gone. Having a guy that can play both guard positions would certainly be an asset. If he falls to the Spurs with their #33 pick, he'd be worth a look....assuming the Spurs already got Dominic McGuire in the first (j/k)

[AFBlue]

I'm personally still holding out hope that one of the two international SGs falls to the Spurs. It would be a luxury to have the option of leaving them overseas for just one season while Barry and Fin play out the last year of their contracts...of course, they could also be with the team in 2007.

[yavozerb]

agree on this.
most assume that Bonner will be resigned, but forget that Spurs for sure won't want to pay much more than they already do. if another team offers him 3.5-4 million, I can't see the Spurs match.
Bonner is a great guy, but his role will never be bigger than 15-20 minutes IMO.
Bonner is already 27, so this will be his chance to get a longer term contract. if another team offers him like 3years/10+million, he will likely bite.(and Spurs likely not match)
he never made the big bucks and even if he is a very low key guy, he won't leave 5 or more millions on the table, just to be a no.8 or no.9 player with the Spurs.

I really do think that the spurs would offer Bonner a 2-3 year contract worth 3 mill. this summer. Remember Horry would be getting 3.6 mill next year if he plays (these 2 players are comparible in minutes and production).

[Big P]

The good thing about Beno & Butler is that those are 2 positions that teams will likely give up something for, young PG's & young centers, especially on cheap contracts. SF's & SG's are a dime a dozen in this league. I would look for the Spurs to use one or both of them to get a pick(s) from a team(s) that is under the cap.

[AFBlue]

I really do think that the spurs would offer Bonner a 2-3 year contract worth 3 mill. this summer. Remember Horry would be getting 3.6 mill next year if he plays (these 2 players are comparible in minutes and production).

Horry is also super-clutch and without him, the Spurs are not 2005 NBA champions. You can make the comparison when Bonner does the same this year....

[yavozerb]

If the spurs do buyout Oberto (which I pray for) then scola is a real option to come over and play the 4 or 5. Lets not forget that Pop is from the school of Larry brown and rookies just do not play very much. Whoever gets drafted will only see limited time on the court.

[yavozerb]

Horry is also super-clutch and without him, the Spurs are not 2005 NBA champions. You can make the comparison when Bonner does the same this year....

Its hard to blame bonner for playing on crappy teams thus not being able to play many playoff games to make any big shots. I do agree that horry is super clutch shooter but I believe his time has passed (hopefully after this post season) and I would never compare the two in pressure moments because few players in the NBA's history has hit as many clutch shots as Horry.

[AFBlue]

Its hard to blame bonner for playing on crappy teams thus not being able to play many playoff games to make any big shots. I do agree that horry is super clutch shooter but I believe his time has passed (hopefully after this post season) and I would never compare the two in pressure moments because few players in the NBA's history has hit as many clutch shots as Horry.

I'm not blaming Bonner for not being clutch or not being given the opportunity. What I'm saying is that the Spurs gave Horry a relatively bloated contract (by Spurs standard) because he was their hero in 2005. IMO, it will take a similarly strong showing in the playoffs by Bonner to secure more than $2-3M per year.

[AFBlue]

If the spurs do buyout Oberto (which I pray for) then scola is a real option to come over and play the 4 or 5. Lets not forget that Pop is from the school of Larry brown and rookies just do not play very much. Whoever gets drafted will only see limited time on the court.

I think the two events are somewhat interconnected. If the Spurs work out a contract agreement with Scola over the summer, that will free up a spot with Tau and should give Fab a place to go back to once a buyout is worked out.

[Mr. Body]

What is the precedent of buying out contracts like that? Does it still count against the cap in the same way? I understand it's happened for international players before, like Macijauskas, just don't know the costs.

[yavozerb]

What about this team for 2007-2008:
1. TP-JV-rookie or FA
2. Barry-Manu
3. Bowen-Finley
4. TD-Bonner- Scola or Oberto
5. FE-Rookie or FA
I keep trying to fit white on this team but it just doesnt look good for him to make the team next year (possible reserve next year again)

[Mr. Body]

yavo- I think Barry is gone this summer. Just my gut. With one year left on his contract and some appeal, I think he's gone.

That said, even if he stays it looks about right for now, although as sketchy as we can imagine, not knowing who will be drafted, etc.

As I've said before, I think there will be two pretty good rookies coming in, and one of those could be Scola. But my gut also says Scola will be somewhere else next year (in the NBA).

There is still room for White in your run-down, if at the end of the bench.

[mardigan]

Yea, I agree with Body on that, Im pretty sure that Barry will be gone, leaving room for Fin dog to move back to sg, thus clearing up a spot for White to get some minutes (barring who we draft). I agree with Tony about the 2 international sgs coming out, and I really like Bellineli, although I have seen some mocks with him going pretty high. I also reallly hope that we get rid of Oberto, and I am hoping that Butler will step up in the off season and claim those minute, so that we dont nessecarily have to draft a big (although a young pf would be nice). Lets just hope we get at least one rookie in this years draft that can contribute immediately

[Mr. Body]

The question is, who does Barry go for? I'm not sure. There will be a lot of players jarring loose from various teams the Spurs might take a look at. Pietrus is one of several odd-men-out in GS, Nocioni looks more likely to change addresses this summer than he did a few months ago, and Gerald Wallace might walk away from Charlotte. I still think Chicago is a very good fit for Scola, and think he will be traded.

So... the old Barry+Udrih package? Barry+Butler? Barry+Scola?

I think the Spurs will be determined to move up in the draft and think they'll try to bundle up their first with Scola, like usual, and maybe even put the Milwaukee pick in there with it.

How much would you guys let go in order to get Corey Brewer/other? First round+Scola+Milwaukee? First round+Scola+Milwaukee+future first? How much will it take?

How about First round+Scola+future first, draft Brewer, then Derrick Byars falls to the Milwaukee pick? What do you think?

[AFBlue]

Yea, I agree with Body on that, Im pretty sure that Barry will be gone, leaving room for Fin dog to move back to sg, thus clearing up a spot for White to get some minutes (barring who we draft)

The reasons I don't see Barry getting traded:

1. He has the ability to shoot 3s and can handle the ball very well. Don't forget, the Spurs were waivering on giving him up fo Corey Maggette because they valued these attributes so much.

2. He is a $6M expiring contract. The Spurs have been hesitant to offer big, long-term contracts ostensibly to be in a position to bid more than the MLE for a potential free agent in 2008. It won't be loads of money, but whoever the Spurs get in return for Barry would likely be diminishing that figure for 2008.

3. Who is a trading partner and what do the Spurs get in return for dishing Barry?


I just think that Barry still holds value as a player and as a contract.

[mardigan]

I really think that a team like the Cavs would love a package of Brent and Beno, they could use both of those guys badly. Get back a guy like Pavlovic. Varejao will also be a fa, and he is definately a guy I would like to see the Spurs go after, he probably wont be too expensive, and we could use him.
Or maybe the same package to a team like the Hawks who could use both guys for someone like CHildress. Even Detroit would be a team that could use those guys, who knows, but there are definately teams that could use a true point and a 3 point specialist

[AFBlue]

I agree with Tony about the 2 international sgs coming out, and I really like Bellineli, although I have seen some mocks with him going pretty high.

I don't really trust those mock drafts because they're based on a talent-level evaluation rather than team needs. I also think there is some disparity between the websites on a few players, so it's hard to tell where their stock is. The reason I like Chad Ford's top 100 is that it gives a general range for players to be taken in. Here's the list of SGs in/around the area of Belinelli/Fernandez:

Nick Young
Brandon Rush
Rodney Stuckey
Dequan Cook
Trey Johnson
Morris Almond

Young, Rush, and Stuckey were classified in the "Mid-Late First Round" and the rest (INCLUDING BELINELLI AND FERNANDEZ) were classified in the "Late First, Early Second" category. There's still alot to be determined as far a who will declare and even then there are pre-draft camps, individual workouts, etc.

Those things can change a player's draft stock significantly...especially with certain teams. Some teams will value Almond's size, others will value Stuckey's versatility, others Young's moxy, others Rush's defense...and on and on.

It'll be interesting to see, but I think it's possible one of those two falls to, or near, the Spurs.

[Bruno]

You can say as much as you want that Beno/Butler will be traded this summer but for the moment they are under contract for the next year with a guaranteed contract.
You can imagine a lot of scenario where they are traded but facts are that under contract and that Spurs have tried to trade them without success at the deadline. Even if in some fantasy offseason plan, it's nice to dump them to open a roster spot, the reality is that there is a good chance to see them with a Spurs jersey next year.

[yavozerb]

The only for sure guys I see being moved are beno and butler. Possible that scola could be moved if no agreement is reached. Unlikely that barry is going anywhere. Of the 4-5 draft picks I only see the spurs using 2 for players and the 2-3 used on trades. If unable to find takers for a trade they will simply draft someone we have never heard of and develop those players overseas.

[AFBlue]

You can say as much as you want that Beno/Butler will be traded this summer but for the moment they are under contract for the next year with a guaranteed contract.
You can imagine a lot of scenario where they are traded but facts are that under contract and that Spurs have tried to trade them without success at the deadline. Even if in some fantasy offseason plan, it's nice to dump them to open a roster spot, the reality is that there is a good chance to see them with a Spurs jersey next year.

Well put Bruno. It's easy to see alot of these trade scenarios, but it's unrealistic to make predictions about future rosters based on them being traded or cut.

[Mr. Body]

You can say as much as you want that Beno/Butler will be traded this summer but for the moment they are under contract for the next year with a guaranteed contract.

Of course they are, but there has been interest in Udrih in the past, and a smattering for Butler. They're both very inexpensive contract-wise and especially in the case of Beno, it will be addition by subtraction. There are teams out there that badly, badly need PGs, such as Atlanta and LAC, with Cassell done and Livingston perhaps out all next year. Beno is a decent option for at least a back-up and I'm sure the Clippers would have traded for a guy like him if Livingston blew out his knee a week earlier. Are we placing money here that he'll be traded? No. Are we guessing what team he'd be traded to? No. But some of us are speculating a high chance he gets moved. Not for much, but moved. No one is predicting the future, but we're guessing what might happen.

[AFBlue]

The only for sure guys I see being moved are beno and butler. Possible that scola could be moved if no agreement is reached. Unlikely that barry is going anywhere. Of the 4-5 draft picks I only see the spurs using 2 for players and the 2-3 used on trades. If unable to find takers for a trade they will simply draft someone we have never heard of and develop those players overseas.

Why "for sure" on Beno? If the Spurs don't have a third PG in the fold, why would they trade/cut Beno, who is a cheap third option? Again, if they wanted to trade/cut him, they had plenty of opportunity to do so at the deadline....obviously they don't want to get rid of him and get nothing in return. IMO, a 2009 second rounder won't do it.

[Mr. Body]

There is a decent chance Beno stays on the roster, sure, but I believe the Spurs are committed to finding another home for him. He's simply not working here. They could hang on to him for the deadline.

Your thoughts on Barry are pretty good. I wonder if the Spurs will take on salary in order to get their future SF starter, or how tenacious and exclusive this whole 2008 Plan is.

[yavozerb]

Why "for sure" on Beno? If the Spurs don't have a third PG in the fold, why would they trade/cut Beno, who is a cheap third option? Again, if they wanted to trade/cut him, they had plenty of opportunity to do so at the deadline....obviously they don't want to get rid of him and get nothing in return. IMO, a 2009 second rounder won't do it.

Ok, good point. Nothing is for sure, I should have said "probable". I say this cause Beno is to be payed 1.7 mil next year and vaughn has proven his worth this year as back up pg for 1 mill. If we can resign JV for 1.25 or 1.5 and get a young pg through the draft or FA then this free's up cash for other positions such SF or C. I just do not see the spurs doubling up Beno's contract the way he played this year and if it takes a 2nd rd pick in 2009 this so be it.

[AFBlue]

There is a decent chance Beno stays on the roster, sure, but I believe the Spurs are committed to finding another home for him. He's simply not working here. They could hang on to him for the deadline.

Your thoughts on Barry are pretty good. I wonder if the Spurs will take on salary in order to get their future SF starter, or how tenacious and exclusive this whole 2008 Plan is.

I think we'll see how tenacious and exclusive this 2008 plan is during this upcoming off-season. If the Spurs use part or all of their mid-level (especially to bring Scola over) and give Bonner an new contract at a higher price, then I would expect them to make more moves. If they aren't going to be more than $5M over, then it's more advantageous to be over the cap come 2008....then they'll at least get the MLE. We'll see....

[AFBlue]

On Beno, I'm not saying that the Spurs won't change their position on him, especially if they're able to snag a decent replacement via the draft or FA....but last I heard, the Spurs were not giving up Beno for nothing (aka late second rounder).

[Bruno]

No one is predicting the future, but we're guessing what might happen.

I've done and seen a lot of people doing offseason plans and the main conclusion was that they were almost more trades in a "fantasy" offseason plan than in the real offseason.

Take Butler or Beno case : I agree with you that it seems that they are a waste of roster spot. I agree with you that some teams could be interested by them because they are young and with cheap expiring contracts. I agree with you that they should be traded. But will they ? Trading them is easier on a message board than in reality. Spurs will have to find a team that like them and that offer something Spurs like for them, not that easy. I'm not saying that they won't be traded but it's a reach to say that Spurs will have an extra roster spot because they will be gone.

BTW, Hawks still have 3 PGs better than Beno (Lue, Johnson and Speedy) : I don't see them being interested in another PG if he hasn't the talent to be a good starting PG.

[AFBlue]

I've done and seen a lot of people doing offseason plans and the main conclusion was that they were almost more trades in a "fantasy" offseason plan than in the real offseason.

Take Butler or Beno case : I agree with you that it seems that they are a waste of roster spot. I agree with you that some teams could be interested by them because they are young and with cheap expiring contracts. I agree with you that they should be traded. But will they ? Trading them is easier on a message board than in reality. Spurs will have to find a team that like them and that offer something Spurs like for them, not that easy. I'm not saying that they won't be traded but it's a reach to say that Spurs will have an extra roster spot because they will be gone.

BTW, Hawks still have 3 PGs better than Beno (Lue, Johnson and Speedy) : I don't see them being interested in another PG if he hasn't the talent to be a good starting PG.

The only thing I'll add is that your evalution, or mine, or Mr. Body's, or anyone else not in a position to determine the future of players currently on the Spurs roster, is irrelevant. It's fun to play "If I were Spurs GM for a day", but in reality, we just have to roll with whatever decisions the Spurs make and hope for the best.

Having said that....if the Spurs don't get Rudy Fernandez and Dominic McGuire with the first two picks, sign Scola, re-up Bonner, get rid of Oberto/Beno, develop Butler & White, and sign a decent FA in 2008....I will be pissed, b/c that's what I'd do!

[Mr. Body]

Having said that....if the Spurs don't get Rudy Fernandez and Dominic McGuire with the first two picks, sign Scola, re-up Bonner, get rid of Oberto/Beno, develop Butler & White, and sign a decent FA in 2008....I will be pissed, b/c that's what I'd do!

Now we get to what this thread is about! The only problem I'd see with your plan is that McGuire IMO pulls out if he's headed for the second round. Maybe we can hope for a boneheaded move and he stays in, thinking he's going in the 20s? I'll take Byars if that doesn't happen.

[mardigan]

Now we get to what this thread is about! The only problem I'd see with your plan is that McGuire IMO pulls out if he's headed for the second round. Maybe we can hope for a boneheaded move and he stays in, thinking he's going in the 20s? I'll take Byars if that doesn't happen.
Word to your turd, Byars is the best option at where we are going to pick, and he very well might slip into the early second round if someone better falls to us in the 1st. He could be the Bowen replacment with a MUCH better offensive game. With that said, I really hope the Spurs make a run at Verajao in the offseason, he would be a perfect fit.

[AFBlue]

Now we get to what this thread is about! The only problem I'd see with your plan is that McGuire IMO pulls out if he's headed for the second round. Maybe we can hope for a boneheaded move and he stays in, thinking he's going in the 20s? I'll take Byars if that doesn't happen.

I think he's already got one foot in the door with his initial interest, and he's likely to have some really good workouts....so I think he'll be persuaded to sign an agent and make it official even without a guarantee. What does he really have to go back to...Fresno State?

The other note is that the Spurs have a top 3/4 second round pick...it's not like he'd fall drastically.

On the topic of guys declaring but not hiring agents....is this something that's happening alot more often of late, or is it just getting more publicity? IMO, it actually hurts the player's stock to be so non-commital and not to have a person that can "sell" you to prospective teams. Granted an agent will fill their heads with bullshit, but they might actually be able to back it up.

[Bruno]

It's fun to play "If I were Spurs GM for a day", but in reality, we just have to roll with whatever decisions the Spurs make and hope for the best.


I have nothing against the "I'm a GM game". My point was more that a real GM has more constraints than a fantasy GM. If you do a fantasy offseason plan with tons of moves/trades, it's not really realistic.

[AFBlue]

Word to your turd, Byars is the best option at where we are going to pick, and he very well might slip into the early second round if someone better falls to us in the 1st. He could be the Bowen replacment with a MUCH better offensive game. With that said, I really hope the Spurs make a run at Verajao in the offseason, he would be a perfect fit.

It's possible that Varajao's stock has fallen post-deadline, but he was deemed by Cavs FO at that point to be "untouchable". He's a restricted free agent and I would think that any deal for less than the mid-level will see them match.

IMO, the Spurs should focus their efforts on getting a high-energy guy with much more offensive game than Varajao....his name is Luis Scola

[mardigan]

Here is a pretty cool article from SI.com about the international prospects in this years draft

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/chris_ekstrand/04/02/international.prospects/index.html

[AFBlue]

Here is a pretty cool article from SI.com about the international prospects in this years draft

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/chris_ekstrand/04/02/international.prospects/index.html

Thanks for that. :tu

[mardigan]

Man, I really like the sound of Marco from that article, and Rudy, both sound great. Although I havnt seen any of Rudy, Marco looked great in this last years Olympics, and his youtubes vids are great

[AFBlue]

The question is, who does Barry go for? I'm not sure. There will be a lot of players jarring loose from various teams the Spurs might take a look at. Pietrus is one of several odd-men-out in GS, Nocioni looks more likely to change addresses this summer than he did a few months ago, and Gerald Wallace might walk away from Charlotte. I still think Chicago is a very good fit for Scola, and think he will be traded.

So... the old Barry+Udrih package? Barry+Butler? Barry+Scola?

I think the Spurs will be determined to move up in the draft and think they'll try to bundle up their first with Scola, like usual, and maybe even put the Milwaukee pick in there with it.

How much would you guys let go in order to get Corey Brewer/other? First round+Scola+Milwaukee? First round+Scola+Milwaukee+future first? How much will it take?

How about First round+Scola+future first, draft Brewer, then Derrick Byars falls to the Milwaukee pick? What do you think?

To get Brewer, I'd give all that and the left nut. Problem is, I think he goes top 10 (especially with that game against UCLA) and I don't see the Spurs putting enough together to get that far up.

But if the Spurs got Brewer, there'd be no need for Byars.

[AFBlue]

Man, I really like the sound of Marco from that article, and Rudy, both sound great. Although I havnt seen any of Rudy, Marco looked great in this last years Olympics, and his youtubes vids are great

Rudy was shooting lights out earlier in the year, but he's had a less-than-impressive Euroleague playoff run and I think that might hurt his stock. He also has buyout concerns, and injury concerns (a la Manu w/ the skinny frame and hard style of play). I think he still goes first round, but these are my reasons to think he has the potential to slip on draft day.

Bring on El Contusion Numero Dos!

[mardigan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAucLSrYv8
Pretty sweet Rudy vid, but I still like Marco a lot. He reminds me of Manu quite a bit

[AFBlue]

I'm also a fan of McGuire and his gaudy 9.8 rebound/game average. If you're gonna go small-ball, you might as well do it right!

[mardigan]

I'm also a fan of McGuire and his gaudy 9.8 rebound/game average. If you're gonna go small-ball, you might as well do it right!
He had 13 or more rebounds 9 times last year, and 4 plus blocks 15 times, including on Dec. 30th against San Diego, where he had 14 points, 14 boards, 10 blocks, 4 assists, and a steal. What a beast

[Mr. Body]

If McGuire is so awesome, why is he projected by some as late as the early second round?

[AFBlue]

If McGuire is so awesome, why is he projected by some as late as the early second round?

It's only really one season of data, his production is nearly double what it was before his transfer (why?), he played at Fresno St. and not some big-time program, and he's got limited range on his jumper...especially out to three-point range.

He is what he is...a very athletic defensive-minded combo Forward with good potential, but needs considerable work on the offensive end.

What I like about him is his versatility (ability to play small-ball 4), defense, and rebounding...but I admit he'd probably go on the Stephen Jackson plan.

[Cry Havoc]

Would any team take something along the lines of Bonner, Beno, and Spurs 1st rounder for their own top 10 pick? I'd love to have someone like Brewer, who's ready to step in and contribute.

[Mr. Body]

Would any team take something along the lines of Bonner, Beno, and Spurs 1st rounder for their own top 10 pick? I'd love to have someone like Brewer, who's ready to step in and contribute.

No. Bonner and Beno are essentially worthless in terms of trading up in the draft. Bonner won't even be under contract, anyway.

Getting into the top 10 is likely impossible, which is where Brewer will be. But the Spurs' first, their Milwaukee pick, plus Scola, might be able to get them into the late teens.

Brewer would be fucking incredible as a Spur, but alas will be out of range.

[mountainballer]

Brewer would be fucking incredible as a Spur, but alas will be out of range.

yes. but some weeks ago it looked as if there could be a chance, if Spurs trade up AND he slips because of a bad tournament and they meet between 15 and 20.
now we know that no other player has helped his stock as much as Brewer in the tournament, he is now ranked as a sure top 10 pick.
my prediction is, that the Blazers pick him with their (currently) no.7 pick. it just makes to much sense.
the Blazers have a very nice young line up and despite the number of SFs on their roster, a quality (starting calibre) defensive minded SF is the missing piece alongside Jack-Roy-Zach-Aldridge.
Brewer could be exactly what they once hoped Miles would be.
I would be very surprised if the Blazers pass on Brewer.
(but if they did, Seattle at 8 might be next in line)

to answer the question: yes I would give every pick + Scola rights + Mahinmi rights for Brewer anytime. but unfortunatly even this won't do it.

our realistic best case scenario will be the mentioned Derrick Byars. it is interesting, that his rankings in the mock are very different. some see him as a mid 1st rounder, some even as a 2nd rounder.
so it is hard to predict, if it would be necessary to trade up to get him. (I think it would be, he should go in the early 20ies). but some teams will pass on him, because they doubt his athleticismn and don't give so much value to the intangibles. Spurs do as we know and Spurs also are not sold on athleticismn in the first place.

I still don't think that we should sacrifice Buck's 2nd rounder to trade up.
if Spurs try to trade up, they should offer next years 1st rounder + 2nd rounder (this year or future).
right now I can see a best case scenario of Spurs getting Byars with the 1st rounder and McGuire with the Buck's 2nd rounder.
if we can't get Byars with the 1st rounder, there is a good chance we get McGuire with that pick. he would provide the athleticismn and size, so the other pick could be Afflalo or Tucker. or the best big who is there (Visser, Davis, Fazekas?)

[mountainballer]

Getting into the top 10 is likely impossible, which is where Brewer will be. But the Spurs' first, their Milwaukee pick, plus Scola, might be able to get them into the late teens.


some weeks ago I mentioend that I think the best chance to trade up might be a trade with the Bobcats for the Raptor's 1st rounder. (currently no.22).
they don't have a 2nd rounder, so for them the Buck's pick might be intriguing, because they might want to get a Euro and be able to decide if they bring him during the summer, when they have learned how all their other contracts have turned out.
(Wallace, Brezec have player options, 5 contracts expire and Knight has a team option the Bobcats likely won't use)
if they pick 22 or 28 in the first round doesn't make much difference for them, but adding another option with a 2nd rounder helps them regarding all the repleacements.

the other scenario is Philly and the Denver pick (currently no.18).
Philly might be quite interested in the Scola rights, since a PF is their major need. of course, at no.6 they will find still lot's of PF talent (at least one out of the group Wright, Horford, Noah and Jianlian will be there), but that doesn't say they didn't need another PF. (Smith contract expires and Randolph isn't really a great option). if they pick let's say Jianlian, a PF with a different skill set like Scola, would make sense.
this would be a scenario all should like.
Philly get's a top prospect with their own pick + Scola and still has two more picks in the 1st round to work with (back-up PG, long SF).
Spurs will find a very good player at 18 (Byars will be there, but maybe also Nick Young or Rudy Fernandez) and still keep the Buck's 2nd rounder.

[AFBlue]

^^ MB, if the Spurs manage to trade up to the late teens or early 20s and don't pick up more than a guy who could be had at 33 (Byars), I'll be disappointed. I like the other suggestions of Fernandez or Young....also throw in Belinelli, Rush, and Thaddeus Young if they declare.


On Byars, he certainly helped himself out in the draft, but according to Chad Ford, he's not the first-round pick the most in this forum think...even with the strong tourney showing. NBAdraft.net is the only mock that shows him in the lottery and I believe the only one that shows him in the first round at all. He could be had with the Milwakee pick if the Spurs really wanted to get him.

Below is the quote from Chad's latest article...


Derrick Byars, Vanderbilt
The senior swingman shot the lights out from the 3-point line in an upset against Washington State. However, he couldn't duplicate the performance against a more athletic team such as Georgetown.

Scouts like Byars' size and shooting ability, but short of a great run at the predraft camps and NBA workouts, he looks like a second-round pick on most NBA boards right now.

[mountainballer]

^^ MB, if the Spurs manage to trade up to the late teens or early 20s and don't pick up more than a guy who could be had at 33 (Byars), I'll be disappointed. I like the other suggestions of Fernandez or Young....also throw in Belinelli, Rush, and Thaddeus Young if they declare.


it's what I tried to point, few other players are ranked so different like he is. maybe the scenario to trade up to get him is a reach, maybe he would fall to our 1st rounder. I tried to point, that Spurs might like him more, than other teams, because he meets so many of the Spurs team policies.
but I really don't think that he will fall to 2nd round. IMO that's underrating him.
(agree that nbadraft.net is overrating him. I would see him around 25)

[mardigan]

it's what I tried to point, few other players are ranked so different like he is. maybe the scenario to trade up to get him is a reach, maybe he would fall to our 1st rounder. I tried to point, that Spurs might like him more, than other teams, because he meets so many of the Spurs team policies.
but I really don't think that he will fall to 2nd round. IMO that's underrating him.
(agree that nbadraft.net is overrating him. I would see him around 25)
I couldnt agree with you more, its the Josh Howard thing all over a again. A senior, that was the player of the year in his conference, and now teams wonder if he was so good why he stayed and all of that. And I really dont know where he got his un athletic rep, he is very athletic, especially on the defensive side. He has a great finisher, good shooter, he is a great defender, his teamates love him, great leader, decent ball handling skills, and wouldnt let his team lose when he had the oppurtunity. Remember, they probably should have beat the Hoyas, and a good reason why was Byars d and clutch shooting down the stretch. I wouldnt ever disagree with the all-knowing Forde, but I dont really like his scouting on this one. If he is there, we will take him and he will be able to contribute next year. He is very smart and comes from a smart system, he would be able to pick up Pops system quicker than most rooks I think

[AFBlue]

it's what I tried to point, few other players are ranked so different like he is. maybe the scenario to trade up to get him is a reach, maybe he would fall to our 1st rounder. I tried to point, that Spurs might like him more, than other teams, because he meets so many of the Spurs team policies.
but I really don't think that he will fall to 2nd round. IMO that's underrating him.
(agree that nbadraft.net is overrating him. I would see him around 25)

On Byars, both DX and ESPN say it will take some good performances at pre-draft camps/workouts to solidify him in the first round....so it doesn't sound to me like 2nd round is underrating him.

I see your point, though, that he's got the intangibles and the all-around game to be a "glue guy" on a championship calibur team picking in the late first round. Alando Tucker is in that same "glue guy" mold. Either would be nice, but both should be available in the late first, early second.

[mardigan]

I like Byars more than Tucker a lot, he is 2 or 3 inches taller than Tucker, and can shoot outside and hit his free throws

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/paul_forrester/04/03/draft.stocks/index.html
Article of players who most improved and hurt their stock from SI.com, Byars is like the 10th guy mentioned

[AFBlue]

Rodney Stuckey and Gabe Pruitt as combo guards are intriguing, would fit in immediately as backups to both positions and hedge any possible trades of Udrih or Barry....

[AFBlue]

Looks like Jason Smith, the F/C largely compared to Troy Murphy will evaluate his draft stock. Another prospect to make the draft deeper...nice!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2824121


Updated: April 3, 2007, 1:56 PM ET
Smith, 7-foot junior, declares for NBA draftAssociated Press

FORT COLLINS, Colo. -- Colorado State junior Jason Smith is going to test the NBA waters.


The 7-foot forward from Kersey, Colo., who averaged 16.8 points and 10.1 rebounds as a junior last season, will declare himself eligible for the NBA draft. Smith, however, won't sign with an agent, allowing him to return to school if he determines he won't go high enough in the June 28 draft.

He would have until June 18 to withdraw his name from consideration and retain his senior year of eligibility for the Rams, whom he's led in scoring and rebounding the last two seasons.

"I owe it to myself and my family to assess what my possibilities are related to the draft," Smith said. "I want to collect all of the information that I can and be able to make a good decision. I have had a great time at Colorado State, but I'm looking forward to this process. I feel I am prepared, and I am excited to go as hard as I can to pursue this opportunity."

Smith, a first-team All-Mountain West Conference selection the last two seasons, has the blessing of new Rams coach Tim Miles.

"We want to help Jason and his family explore all possible opportunities so that they can make the best decision for him," Miles said. "I support Jason and his family, and will do so in every way that I can."

I assume he's going to commit if he gets indications that he'd be a first round pick, because he doesn't have anything to prove by going back to Colorado State for one more year. He's an intriguing prospect because he has the range of guys like Nick Fazekas/Ryan Anderson, but is more athletic, taller, and has the ability to add more weight.

[wildbill2u]

I really was surprised by the play of Chris Richards from Florida. He's way down the DX draft list. He's only 6'8" and 255 PF but looks like he plays bigger. His shooting was great for a big man although a lot came from offensive rebounds (me likee offensive rebounder with good hands)

For some reason he reminded me of a shorter Moses Malone. The same relentless drive to rebound maybe. And I guess he sorta looks like him. I know this isn't a priority but somebody gonna get a good sleeper in Richards.

[AFBlue]

Update on Scola...8pts 9rebs in 20 minutes. Tau beat Olympiakos 84-59.

[Mr. Body]

Richards is a guy I also noticed. Udonis Haslem was a beefy Florida guy, too.

[wildbill2u]

After all the shuffling around and underclassmen entries, I notice that DX now has us passing on Fazekas, the 7' center from Nevada and going for Almond, the SG from Rice in the first round.

And they also have McGuire in the second round. Man if we went for a SG instead of McGuire, I think that would be a mistake.

[AFBlue]

Someone on this forum told me the projections were based on talent, not need.

[Mr. Body]

The other winner last night: Corey Brewer, who emerged this month as the most intriguing draft prospect other than Kevin Durant. My buddy House and I spent a few minutes on the phone last night trying to find the right comparison for a 6-foot-8, 190-pound guard who's unlike anyone in the NBA right now -- ultimately, we settled on a 6-foot-8 Ricky Davis, only if you surgically implanted Manu Ginobili's brain in Ricky's head. Why Manu? Because of his open-court play and penchant for sneaking away from his man to cause turnovers. Because of the way he rises to the occasion in bigger games. Because of the deadly three-point shooting. And especially, because of the unconventional angles that Brewer takes when he's driving to the basket.

If you want to get technical about it, he's the player we always wanted Todd Day to be. And since he's a better athlete and defender than Manu, and since he's a winner and all, the question remains ... why isn't Corey Brewer being considered for a top-five spot in this draft? Is there a chance he could make a Ben Gordon-type leap as we get closer and closer to end of June, and the lottery teams realize, "Wait, why are we killing ourselves trying to figure out who's better between Noah, Horford and Hibbert ... why don't we just take Corey Brewer?"

This was from Bill Simmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons), who is giddy the Celtics have sucked long enough they might actually get Durant or Oden (I hope not, for those players' sakes). Some nice thoughts on Manu, whom the Sports Guy usually hates, although he has the strange idea Brewer will be a SG.

Meanwhile, I'll be eating my heart out knowing Brewer will never be a Spur. Not even our first round, the Milwaukee pick, Scola, the rest of the roster, and several future first round picks will get him.

[pad300]

Anybody think it might be worthwhile to try trade up to get McRoberts? (especially if we traded Scola to do it). He's a skilled face-up PF, who's been decent defensively for Duke. Big time athlete. He's taken a stock hit, because he wasn't able to be the "MAN" for Duke this season & some mock drafts have him going late teens to early 20's. He looks like he might fit real well next to Duncan (good passer, decent Jumpshot, mobile, solid defender). While he might never be an all-star, we are really looking for a complementary guy/ some one who doesn't want to be the "MAN" anyway.

[mardigan]

Anybody think it might be worthwhile to try trade up to get McRoberts? (especially if we traded Scola to do it). He's a skilled face-up PF, who's been decent defensively for Duke. Big time athlete. He's taken a stock hit, because he wasn't able to be the "MAN" for Duke this season & some mock drafts have him going late teens to early 20's. He looks like he might fit real well next to Duncan (good passer, decent Jumpshot, mobile, solid defender). While he might never be an all-star, we are really looking for a complementary guy/ some one who doesn't want to be the "MAN" anyway.
The recent mocks I have seen have shown Josh slipping to anywhere from the 12th pick to the later teens. I think it would take to much to move up to take a guy that no one really seems high on. Maybe in a running teams offense, like the Suns or Warriors he would be the shit, but the Spurs bigs have to play d, rebound and block shots, 3 things I think he will have trouble with at the next level. Then again, if he really slipped, then, maybe

[AFBlue]

This was from Bill Simmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons), who is giddy the Celtics have sucked long enough they might actually get Durant or Oden (I hope not, for those players' sakes). Some nice thoughts on Manu, whom the Sports Guy usually hates, although he has the strange idea Brewer will be a SG.

Meanwhile, I'll be eating my heart out knowing Brewer will never be a Spur. Not even our first round, the Milwaukee pick, Scola, the rest of the roster, and several future first round picks will get him.

Brewer will be a SG....AND a SF. He is versatile enough to play/guard both positions.

[AFBlue]

The recent mocks I have seen have shown Josh slipping to anywhere from the 12th pick to the later teens. I think it would take to much to move up to take a guy that no one really seems high on. Maybe in a running teams offense, like the Suns or Warriors he would be the shit, but the Spurs bigs have to play d, rebound and block shots, 3 things I think he will have trouble with at the next level. Then again, if he really slipped, then, maybe

Actually he plays pretty good d, rebounds fairly well (8rpg), and has the athleticism/timing to block shots (2.5bpg). Scouts are down on him because he hasn't shown the shooting ability that he posessed in HS, he lacks a decent offensive post game, and though he's big enough (240+) he often gets pushed around in the defensive post because he lacks strength (mostly lower body).

With his passing ability (3.5apg), he could be an asset, but I agree that trading up for him might not be the right move.

In fact, with so many PF prospects in this draft, I'm not sure the Spurs would have to trade up if they wanted to snag a good one....there should be enough to go around on draft day.

[wildbill2u]

The problem always seems to be that there aren't enough SFs with the qualifications and talents (length, rebounding, shooting) we need. Lots of PFs and Cs early in this draft.

[mardigan]

Actually he plays pretty good d, rebounds fairly well (8rpg), and has the athleticism/timing to block shots (2.5bpg). Scouts are down on him because he hasn't shown the shooting ability that he posessed in HS, he lacks a decent offensive post game, and though he's big enough (240+) he often gets pushed around in the defensive post because he lacks strength (mostly lower body).

With his passing ability (3.5apg), he could be an asset, but I agree that trading up for him might not be the right move.

In fact, with so many PF prospects in this draft, I'm not sure the Spurs would have to trade up if they wanted to snag a good one....there should be enough to go around on draft day.
Thats why I said at the next level

[AFBlue]

The problem always seems to be that there aren't enough SFs with the qualifications and talents (length, rebounding, shooting) we need. Lots of PFs and Cs early in this draft.

SF with all three of those characteristics go in the top 5. In order to get one of those types, the Spurs would have to trade WAY up or settle for a SF prospect with a game lacking in one of those areas.

My personal favorite is Dominic McGuire. He's a super athlete with great length, a great rebounder and shotblocker, and has the floor vision to be a good assist guy. BUT, he doesn't have the "shooting" your model requires (though mechanics are supposedly okay). IMO, he's the guy to get....

Also, I don't know if it happens like this every year, but the 2007 draft is just stocked with PF/C of every shape, size, and skill set.

Possible First Round PF/C include:

Greg Oden
Brendan Wright
Al Horford
Joakim Noah
Yi Jianlin'
Spencer Hawes
Roy Hibbert
Tiago Splitter
Josh McRoberts
Tyler Hansbrough
Herbert Hill
Jason Smith
"Big Baby" Davis
Nick Fazekas

DAMN!

[mardigan]

And you didnt even include Aaron Gray or Gasols brother

[ducks]

you forgot brewer

he is the one that the spurs need!

[AFBlue]

you forgot brewer

he is the one that the spurs need!

I listed F/C....not G/Fs

[AFBlue]

And you didnt even include Aaron Gray or Gasols brother

Whoops...damn, 16 prospective bigs in the first round.

[AFBlue]

I guess if the Spurs do try to trade Scola or Oberto to move up, they have the potential to replace them with the Milwakee pick...surely 16 of the first 30 picks won't be F/C. Still, I'd only like to see a trade if it gets the Spurs a lottery-type talent.

[venitian navigator]

I guess if the Spurs do try to trade Scola or Oberto to move up, they have the potential to replace them with the Milwakee pick...surely 16 of the first 30 picks won't be F/C. Still, I'd only like to see a trade if it gets the Spurs a lottery-type talent.

I disagree...and I'll tell you that, to me, is difficult to imagine a c/pf with more experience and skill set than Scola in the 16 above mentioned. He's probably better and, however, more ready for a title ride, in this moment, than all of them, except, maybe, three or four (I see only Oden and Durant, maybe Hibbert and Noah).
I agree in the sense that, if we really have to move up using the Scola rights, it has to be, at least, in the lottery...but I'm not sure it will be possible to take one of the first 6/7, so I'm not sure we'll draft, in case, a c/pf (the four above mentioned, IMHO, will be gone after choice nummber 7).
In fact, I think in summer we'll probably take a very good look at Javtokas too...I see his skills more adapt for nba (and particulary for our kind of defense) than euroleague, and he played very little time with Panathinaikos this year (I wonder if it could be possible to trade Butler to the Pana for him...).
So, at least, we could have the five big man like : Duncan, Scola, Oberto, Javtokas, Elson (and Horry, if he don't retires).

[TDMVPDPOY]

look

if the top 16 picks are going on bigs, i dont want to see the spurs waste a pick trading to get a big for the future. This spurs team is about buiding to win now, so i see why they should keep scola, but fuck his price tag though.

save the picks and draft on needs, im pretty sure there are serviceable big men in the league that could come cheap.

The bulls brown is talkin about retirement, if we can talk him out of it, he should sign with the spurs on the cheap to win a ring....

we need guys who contribute now, not in the fuckn future.

[mountainballer]

For some reason he reminded me of a shorter Moses Malone. The same relentless drive to rebound maybe. And I guess he sorta looks like him. I know this isn't a priority but somebody gonna get a good sleeper in Richards.

deep as this draft is, I can't see Richards get drafted.
one nice game and the argument, that he would have played more, if he didn't have to play behind Horford and Noah, won't be enough.
a player like Haslem did play a far more important role at college and didn't get drafted (in an average year) either, because teams didn't see enough size and talent. even players like Glen Davis are expected to fall to mid 2nd round and at the end of 2nd round there are still some bigs teams can gamble on, with more upside. (Begic, Watkins, Teletovic, etc.)

[mountainballer]

The bulls brown is talkin about retirement, if we can talk him out of it, he should sign with the spurs on the cheap to win a ring....


I guess that's what most Spurs fans thought. he would be great in a Kevin Willis role for another season or two.
but if he is willing to add one more season (on a vet minimum contract) to get that chance for a ring, that will be some other teams, with likely better chances trying to get him, namely his hometown team Pistons (to repleace Davis).
however, even at 38 he would be great for this 10 minutes role.

[mountainballer]

In fact, with so many PF prospects in this draft, I'm not sure the Spurs would have to trade up if they wanted to snag a good one....there should be enough to go around on draft day.

that was the point, why I would hesitate to invest the Buck's pick in a trade up scenario. it would move us up for 3 or 4 spots.
as you say, there should still enough go around in this area, that I would prefer to get two players than one.
IMO this scenario has more upside.
and I'm sure we would go crazy, if we trade up to get a player, who would still have been there and meanwhile we see another nice prospect slip to the Buck's pick.
it's just my gut, but I think this draft contains several Boozers, Varejaos, Lewises and Redds.
FO should better do some extra hours in scouting this year.

[AFBlue]

My main points in response to responses....

1. I wasn't saying that the Spurs should trade up FOR a big. I was saying that if the Spurs traded up to get a Corey Brewer/Jeff Green type using a guy like Scola, I think they could pick up a PF later.

2. While there are few Power Forwards with Scola's experience, I can think of at least one that has EXACTLY the same game. Tyler Hansbrough is a slightly undersized, mildly athletic, banger in the paint with great post moves, a nose for the ball, and a fiery determination much like Scola. I'm not saying he'll be there at 35, but he's one example of a PF the could be very good on this Spurs team. "Big Baby" Davis is another guy in that mold, although he's got nice touch from midrange as well.

3. One final observation....I don't think the Spurs look at adding Javtokas (IMO, that ship has sailed), and I find it hard to believe that Mahinmi will be added either (though it's tough to see where he'll go if Pau isn't taking him back). It's the same reason why it will be tough to bring Scola over this summer AND add two american players via the draft.....the roster crunch. With only 15 spots and, as of now, 11 of them filled (assuming Ely, Bonner, and JV are not re-signed and Horry retires or is let go). I'd say it's a good bet that two of those are re-signed, and if the Spurs add Scola, that leaves room for only one prospect via the draft. CAVEAT....Unless the Spurs draft an international prospect with either of the first two picks. This is the reason I'm hard up for drafting Rudy Fernandez or Marco Belinelli as both will be able to stay overseas for at least one more season, while the roster crunch fixes itself.

[Bruno]

One thing to consider about Mahinmi is that unlike with Scola, Spurs aren't at all in the driver seat with Mahinmi.
If Spurs want to let him one more year in Europe and if Mahinmi really wants to come in nba this summer, Spurs are screwed. Spurs will have no other choice than signing him, trading him (and he has a very low trade value after his bad season) or renouncing to his draft rights.

[AFBlue]

One thing to consider about Mahinmi is that unlike with Scola, Spurs aren't at all in the driver seat with Mahinmi.
If Spurs want to let him one more year in Europe and if Mahinmi really wants to come in nba this summer, Spurs are screwed. Spurs will have no other choice than signing him, trading him (and he has a very low trade value after his bad season) or renouncing to his draft rights.

I fail to see where the difference is between Scola and Mahinmi as far as bargaining position is concerned. They still own his rights...

[ducks]

Mahinmi only signed a one year deal did he not
and that is what the spurs said
trading him however would be foolish because his value is not that high

[AFBlue]

Mahinmi only signed a one year deal did he not
and that is what the spurs said
trading him however would be foolish because his value is not that high

And he could sign another one-year deal after this season with Pau, or with another team.

[Bruno]

I fail to see where the difference is between Scola and Mahinmi as far as bargaining position is concerned. They still own his rights...

The difference is that Mahinmi is a first round pick.
To keep draft rights, a team must offer each summer a contract to the player.
For Scola, it can be a one year non guaranteed contractbecause he is a second round pick. Scola can't pay his buyout with this contract and he will never come in nba with that kind of contract given his level in nba.
For Mahinmi, it's a first round pick contract with two guaranteed years and he will accept it.

[ducks]

he seems to want to do what spurs want him to do
he could sign another year someplace else or he could sign with the spurs play in the d league and the nba

[AFBlue]

The difference is that Mahinmi is a first round pick.
To keep draft rights, a team must offer each summer a contract to the player.
For Scola, it can be a one year non guaranteed contractbecause he is a second round pick. Scola can't pay his buyout with this contract and he will never come in nba with that kind of contract given his level in nba.
For Mahinmi, it's a first round pick contract with two guaranteed years and he will accept it.

Wow, that's a good piece of information. I knew he was a first round pick, but I didn't know there was a requirement levied by the league to offer the international first-rounders a contract every year. That's interesting....

No way he turns down guaranteed money to come overseas....even if he'll only play in the NBDL.

[Bruno]

Mahinmi has signed a two years contract with Pau but there is likely an opt out close in his contract for the nba at the end of the first year.

[AFBlue]

Mahinmi has signed a two years contract with Pau but there is likely an opt out close in his contract for the nba at the end of the first year.

Bruno bringing the heat once again....filled with good info today.

So no buyout?

[Bruno]

Wow, that's a good piece of information. I knew he was a first round pick, but I didn't know there was a requirement levied by the league to offer the international first-rounders a contract every year. That's interesting....

No way he turns down guaranteed money to come overseas....even if he'll only play in the NBDL.

I've learned that point of the CBA few days ago.

And it's not only for international players. Two years ago, Bulls wanted that Chris Duhon plays overseas before coming back with them but he wanted to play in nba. Bulls have made the one year non guaranteed offer to keep his nba rights and Duhon signed it.

[Bruno]

Bruno bringing the heat once again....filled with good info today.

So no buyout?

I don't know if he has a buyout.

[AFBlue]

.

[AFBlue]

All this makes a trade of current player or draft pick more likely. Seeing as how the Spurs are chock full of old scrubs, I would hope to see current rosterlings get shipped out rather than a prospective draft prospect.

[AFBlue]

So wait....did the Spurs offer Mahinmi a contract the year he was drafted? Would they have to make an offer to Rudy or Marco if they drafted them in the first round this year?

[Bruno]

So wait....did the Spurs offer Mahinmi a contract the year he was drafted? Would they have to make an offer to Rudy or Marco if they drafted them in the first round this year?

Yes and yes.

[AFBlue]

Yes and yes.

There goes my theory about drafting an international player, unless that player has an understanding that they would be left overseas until 2008. I wonder how likely that is with a player like Rudy or Marco. Rudy is still under contract though, right?

Here's a question....if a player gets selected in the first round (therefore having a guarantee rookie-scale contract), but has a buyout (of which the NBA team can only pay $500,000), how does the difference in money work itself out...does the international player give money from his own pocket to pay the buyout, or do both parties agree to ?

The reason I ask, is that a guy like Rudy Fernandez might have a buyout next year...

[wildbill2u]

deep as this draft is, I can't see Richards get drafted.
one nice game and the argument, that he would have played more, if he didn't have to play behind Horford and Noah, won't be enough.
a player like Haslem did play a far more important role at college and didn't get drafted (in an average year) either, because teams didn't see enough size and talent. even players like Glen Davis are expected to fall to mid 2nd round and at the end of 2nd round there are still some bigs teams can gamble on, with more upside. (Begic, Watkins, Teletovic, etc.)
Actually, he played well in all the games of the tournament. In fact, I think he shot something like 22-27 combined, not counting FTs (and he made some clutch FTs down the stretch for Fla. until he fouled out.) He made a big contribution in both the last two games that I watched. And remember the caliber of player he was matched with (Oden)

Don't you agree he'd be starting and getting more props if he played anywhere but Fla where he's a 6th man because of the starter's high talent level. At that he was 6th man of the year in the conference. I'm not saying he's gonna go in the first two rounds, but I like him and I still think he's a sleeper for some team, but we probably don't need a PF right now.

[Mr. Body]

Richards could go overlooked and go undrafted like Haslem did. (Haslem was in our camp at one point and we didn't have room for him.) A brawny guy with strength and some skill could be very useful, although we don't have a lot of roster space. I'd take him immediately over Jackie Butler and would be glad to see the Spurs use their late pick on him.

[AFBlue]

Richards could go overlooked and go undrafted like Haslem did. (Haslem was in our camp at one point and we didn't have room for him.) A brawny guy with strength and some skill could be very useful, although we don't have a lot of roster space. I'd take him immediately over Jackie Butler and would be glad to see the Spurs use their late pick on him.

The Spurs don't have any roster space....I doubt the late two draft picks will be used on anyone of consquence, probably just some more international prospects that won't be on the team next year...and may never be.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs don't have any roster space....I doubt the late two draft picks will be used on anyone of consquence, probably just some more international prospects that won't be on the team next year...and may never be.

They'll open up at least 4 roster spaces, IMO. Maybe 3. And as I just said, I'd take Richards right now over Jackie Butler, and I suspect the team would, too. Not that they'd buy out the contract, but I do see them using the late pick if Craig Bradshaw or someone like that is available.

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs don't have any roster space....I doubt the late two draft picks will be used on anyone of consquence, probably just some more international prospects that won't be on the team next year...and may never be.

How do you figure they don't have any roster spots?

Jacque and Melvin won't be under contract. JWhite isn't guaranteed. Robert Horry may retire. Matt Bonner is a free agent (though I think they'll re-sign him).

That's five roster spots.

[AFBlue]

They'll open up at least 4 roster spaces, IMO. Maybe 3. And as I just said, I'd take Richards right now over Jackie Butler, and I suspect the team would, too. Not that they'd buy out the contract, but I do see them using the late pick if Craig Bradshaw or someone like that is available.

As of right now, w/o trades or cuts, there are a MAX of four roster spots open next year...and that's assuming that neither Bonner or Vaughn are re-signed. Then you have to take into account the possibility of signing Scola, and the possiblity that Mahinmi will accept the Spurs offer this summer (a mandatory requirement of Spurs FO). If Bonner and Vaughn DO re-sign, that leaves the Spurs with no roster spots available and a necessity to reach a buyout agreement or trade with one or more of the players on the current roster....as Bruno eluded to earlier, that's easier said than done.

Your suspicions/assumptions about Butler probably aren't right....remember, they were offered something for him at the trade deadline by the 76ers and didn't bite. He's had a rough start for sure, but I doubt the Spurs have given up on him.

[Bruno]

Here's a question....if a player gets selected in the first round (therefore having a guarantee rookie-scale contract), but has a buyout (of which the NBA team can only pay $500,000), how does the difference in money work itself out...does the international player give money from his own pocket to pay the buyout, or do both parties agree to ?


The player should pay the buyout with his own money.
The nba team can help the player to pay his buyout by :
- Give $500,000 to the euro team.
- Salaries for first round picks should be between 80% and 120% of the rookie scale salaries. A team can sign a player to 120% to give him more money to pay his buyout. It's not a big help because almost first round picks almost always get 120%.
- The nba team can pick up the team options on the 3rd and 4th year when the player sign the contract to give him more guaranteed money.

It's it not enough to pay his buyout, the player is stuck in europe until his buyout decrease or the end of his contract.

[Kori Ellis]

As of right now, w/o trades or cuts, there are a MAX of four roster spots open next year...and that's assuming that neither Bonner or Vaughn are re-signed. Then you have to take into account the possibility of signing Scola, and the possiblity that Mahinmi will accept the Spurs offer this summer (a mandatory requirement of Spurs FO). If Bonner and Vaughn DO re-sign, that leaves the Spurs with no roster spots available and a necessity to reach a buyout agreement or trade with one or more of the players on the current roster....as Bruno eluded to earlier, that's easier said than done.

Your suspicions/assumptions about Butler probably aren't right....remember, they were offered something for him at the trade deadline by the 76ers and didn't bite. He's had a rough start for sure, but I doubt the Spurs have given up on him.

Well the Spurs won't sign Mahinmi and Scola this summer if they have their current set of bigs all under contract. We have an overabundance of bigs already.

The only way both Mahinmi and Scola come is if something like three of the bigs are gone (Horry, Ely, Bonner).

[AFBlue]

How do you figure they don't have any roster spots?

Jacque and Melvin won't be under contract. JWhite isn't guaranteed. Robert Horry may retire. Matt Bonner is a free agent (though I think they'll re-sign him).

That's five roster spots.

Jacque isn't under contract, but after what the Spurs have seen from Beno this year, you think they'd be willing to go into next season with him as the backup and have no security behind him? There will be three PGs on this team next season...and as of right now, Beno is one of them.

White is the only one I left out of my assessment. It is difficult to tell whether he will be with the team next year, because someone that plays his position might be drafted by the Spurs...but given what he's shown, the Spurs FO might have a hard time cutting him when he comes so cheap.

[AFBlue]

Well the Spurs won't sign Mahinmi and Scola this summer if they have their current set of bigs all under contract. We have an overabundance of bigs already.

The only way both Mahinmi and Scola come is if something like three of the bigs are gone (Horry, Ely, Bonner).

Well according to Bruno, it is a league requirement under the current CBA for teams to offer their first round picks the standard contract each summer. If Mahinmi doesn't want to play 5 minutes a game in France and wants to earn a paycheck, he'll take the offer the Spurs HAVE to give. Granted, that puts the Spurs in a bind with Scola, BUT the Spurs FO was quoted as saying it's "absolutely" a possibility they would bring over Scola...so they'll at least explore it.

[Mr. Body]

The Mahinmi contract is more of a formality than anything, isn't it? A team isn't forced to sign a player and that team doesn't automatically lose that player's rights. Mahinmi doesn't necessarily come this summer if the Spurs don't want him yet.

[Bruno]

Richards could go overlooked and go undrafted like Haslem did.

Haslem case isn't very common. He weigthed 300lbs during the draft, spend one year in France and during that year, he lost 70lbs.

[AFBlue]

The player should pay the buyout with his own money.
The nba team can help the player to pay his buyout by :
- Give $500,000 to the euro team.
- Salaries for first round picks should be between 80% and 120% of the rookie scale salaries. A team can sign a player to 120% to give him more money to pay his buyout. It's not a big help because almost first round picks almost always get 120%.
- The nba team can pick up the team options on the 3rd and 4th year when the player sign the contract to give him more guaranteed money.

It's it not enough to pay his buyout, the player is stuck in europe until his buyout decrease or the end of his contract.

Thanks for the info. Because apparently Rudy is under contract until 2009 and the potential buyout is a concern. That might be a big pill for Rudy to swallow if he has to take it out of hide....he might actually end up earning more money in Europe if he has to use a portion of his salary to pay the buyout.

[Kori Ellis]

Well according to Bruno, it is a league requirement under the current CBA for teams to offer their first round picks the standard contract each summer. If Mahinmi doesn't want to play 5 minutes a game in France and wants to earn a paycheck, he'll take the offer the Spurs HAVE to give. Granted, that puts the Spurs in a bind with Scola, BUT the Spurs FO was quoted as saying it's "absolutely" a possibility they would bring over Scola...so they'll at least explore it.

Offering Mahinmi a contract from what I understand is just a formality thing. They don't have to offer it with any intention of him taking it (or wanting him to take it). And from what I hear from people playing in Euroleague, Scola doesn't think he'll be a Spur next year.

But they absolutely will not both be here if the Spurs current bigs are all still under contract. The Spurs aren't going to carry nine big men.

[Mr. Body]

No, Haslem was a special case, but Richards is a special case, too -- he could have played as a starter for most Division I teams.

[AFBlue]

The Mahinmi contract is more of a formality than anything, isn't it? A team isn't forced to sign a player and that team doesn't automatically lose that player's rights. Mahinmi doesn't necessarily come this summer if the Spurs don't want him yet.

Talk to Bruno, he seems to know what he's saying...

[Kori Ellis]

The Mahinmi contract is more of a formality than anything, isn't it? A team isn't forced to sign a player and that team doesn't automatically lose that player's rights. Mahinmi doesn't necessarily come this summer if the Spurs don't want him yet.

Correct.

[Mr. Body]

It just doesn't seem quite so draconian as that. What about Orlando with Fran Vasquez? Rules are generally aligned to help teams over players and I don't see why this would be any different. Rookies or players not even in the league do not hold teams hostage. The Mahinmi case is different, anyway: if they tell him to play abroad another year, he will.

[AFBlue]

Offering Mahinmi a contract from what I understand is just a formality thing. They don't have to offer it with any intention of him taking it (or wanting him to take it). And from what I hear from people playing in Euroleague, Scola doesn't think he'll be a Spur next year.

But they absolutely will not both be here if the Spurs current bigs are all still under contract. The Spurs aren't going to carry nine big men.

The Spurs still have to offer it, and no matter how much talking they do, if he wants to take it, he'll take it.

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs still have to offer it, and no matter how much talking they do, if he wants to take it, he'll take it.

That's not exactly how it works.

[Bruno]

The Mahinmi contract is more of a formality than anything, isn't it? A team isn't forced to sign a player and that team doesn't automatically lose that player's rights. Mahinmi doesn't necessarily come this summer if the Spurs don't want him yet.

It's more than just a formality. It's a rule to avoid that teams keep player who wnats to play in nba outside the nba.

[AFBlue]

That's not exactly how it works.

Okay, so then I'm confused. You're saying that if they don't offer him the contract, they won't lose his rights?

[AFBlue]

It just doesn't seem quite so draconian as that. What about Orlando with Fran Vasquez? Rules are generally aligned to help teams over players and I don't see why this would be any different. Rookies or players not even in the league do not hold teams hostage. The Mahinmi case is different, anyway: if they tell him to play abroad another year, he will.

Honestly, I hope you're right. Mahinmi isn't ready to contribute and would be better served to come over in 2008 when there will be less of a roster crunch.

[Kori Ellis]

Okay, so then I'm confused. You're saying that if they don't offer him the contract, they won't lose his rights?

No, that's not what I'm saying. They will offer him a tender contract, if they don't he would become a free agent. But I have never in my life heard of a player accepting such a deal if the team doesn't want him here. It's normally understood between the player and the team what their plans are. Sure, he could force himself here if he wanted, but that's not in his best interest long term.

If the Spurs want him here next year, he'll be here. If they don't, he won't be.

[AFBlue]

No, that's not what I'm saying. They will offer him a tender contract, if they don't he would become a free agent. But I have never in my life heard of a player accepting such a deal if the team doesn't want him here. It's normally understood between the player and the team what their plans are. Sure, he could force himself here if he wanted, but that's not in his best interest long term.

If the Spurs want him here next year, he'll be here. If they don't, he won't be.

Bruno offered an example of Chris Duhon...though you'll have to ask him the details.

[Kori Ellis]

Anyway, my point really wasn't that Scola and Mahinmi won't come this summer. My point was that most NBA teams carry around six/seven big men. It's unheard of to carry nine. So, if those two are coming, Ely plus two of the Spurs other bigs likely won't be here.

But IMO, Scola won't ever be a Spur.

[Kori Ellis]

Bruno offered an example of Chris Duhon...though I don't know how legit that is.
Chris Duhon was a second round pick.

[mountainballer]

If Mahinmi doesn't want to play 5 minutes a game in France and wants to earn a paycheck, he'll take the offer the Spurs HAVE to give.

as I understand it, they have to give it, or they lose his rights.
so (in theory) it could happen, that Ian informs the Spurs (till 1st of July) that he isn't under contract and isn't going to sign with another (non NBA) team for the upcomming season and wants to play in the NBA, then Spurs have till 10th of september to make a Required Tender. if they don't he becomes a FA.
so, Ian isn't able to decide to just come for the paycheck, no matter if Spurs want him or not.

[AFBlue]

Anyway, my point really wasn't that Scola and Mahinmi won't come this summer. My point was that most NBA teams carry around six/seven big men. It's unheard of to carry nine. So, if those two are coming, Ely plus two of the Spurs other bigs likely won't be here.

Ely, Horry, and Bonner are the ones not under fully guaranteed contracts next year...that's a place to start

[Mr. Body]

And second round picks aren't protected the same way as first rounders, if I recall. IIRC, Scola's rights are retained by the Spurs in perpetuity or unless he stays out of professional basketball for a year, in which case his rights revert back to him.

[AFBlue]

Anyway, my point really wasn't that Scola and Mahinmi won't come this summer. My point was that most NBA teams carry around six/seven big men. It's unheard of to carry nine. So, if those two are coming, Ely plus two of the Spurs other bigs likely won't be here.

But IMO, Scola won't ever be a Spur.

You think he'll be traded in the off-season, or you think he'll just never make it across the pond?

[Kori Ellis]

And second round picks aren't protected the same way as first rounders, if I recall. IIRC, Scola's rights are retained by the Spurs in perpetuity or unless he stays out of professional basketball for a year, in which case his rights revert back to him.

That's correct.

[Kori Ellis]

You think he'll be traded in the off-season, or you think he'll just never make it across the pond?

From what I hear, he thinks he'll be in the NBA next year.

I am guessing the Spurs will trade his rights but I'm just guessing.

[Mr. Body]

I'm with Kori here: Scola will be traded and to a team that wants him over right away. He'll be seen in an NBA uniform next season, but not as a Spur.

Question is what they get for him.

[AFBlue]

Well since Kori made her point, I'll make mine....

There WILL be a roster crunch this off-season, where I see a maximum of two (2) 2007 draftees being on the roster next year...and I think it'll be more like one.

[Bruno]

No, that's not what I'm saying. They will offer him a tender contract, if they don't he would become a free agent. But I have never in my life heard of a player accepting such a deal if the team doesn't want him here. It's normally understood between the player and the team what their plans are. Sure, he could force himself here if he wanted, but that's not in his best interest long term.


It happens almost never because it's a bad situation : playing for a team that doesn't want you.
If Mahinmi say that he really wants to play in nba, Spurs can't just say : "No, stay in europe one more year". They will have to negotiate to find a solution ann if they can't find one, Mahinmi will have the last word.

[Kori Ellis]

Well since Kori made her point, I'll make mine....

There WILL be a roster crunch this off-season, where I see a maximum of two (2) 2007 draftees being on the roster next year...and I think it'll be more like one.

Oh I don't think they'll be any draftees on the Spurs team next year, unless they trade up and get someone above 15 or so.

Otherwise, I think they'll dump their picks.

[Kori Ellis]

It happens almost never because it's a bad situation : playing for a team that doesn't want you.
If Mahinmi say that he really wants to play in nba, Spurs can't just say : "No, stay in europe one more year". They will have to negotiate to find a solution ann if they can't find one, Mahinmi will have the last word.

Or the Spurs lose his rights.
But my point was that it never really goes down like that. If Mahinmi tries to be a hardass with the stats he's put up (which I don't think are all his fault) he'll look horrible.

So that's why I'm saying if the Spurs want him here, he'll be here.

[AFBlue]

Oh I don't think they'll be any draftees on the Spurs team next year, unless they trade up and get someone above 15 or so.

Otherwise, I think they'll dump their picks.

If that happens in a draft as deep as this and with the Spurs need to get younger....so help me God, I'll....

:bang :pctoss :drunk :wtf :madrun :dramaquee :dizzy :cry :flipoff :smchode: :frying: :vomit: :shootme

[Kori Ellis]

If that happens in a draft as deep as this and with the Spurs need to get younger....so help me God, I'll....

:bang :pctoss :drunk :wtf :madrun :dramaquee :dizzy :cry :flipoff :smchode: :frying: :vomit: :shootme

Good use of emoticons.

[mountainballer]

I'm with Kori here: Scola will be traded and to a team that wants him over right away. He'll be seen in an NBA uniform next season, but not as a Spur.

Question is what they get for him.

IMO the whole thing would only work, if the other team has some security that Scola signs the kind of contract, he was asking last years from the Spurs. (reported were 3 years /10 million).
there will be some teams, that would bite, because it is a very reasonable contract for a player like him.
I could see that the Nets, Bulls, Sixers, Raptors (depending on what they know about Garbajosa's injury and his chance to come back), Bobcats, Rockets, Lakers might have some interest, considering their needs and their system.
if at least two teams have a significant interest it would help to raise the price.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I'm not sure the Spurs pass on this draft, not with a good draft and especially not with an aging roster. I'm not sure what they could toss their picks away for and I'm not sure how they come away after having three to four picks with not even a single rookie on the roster.

[AFBlue]

IMO the whole thing would only work, if the other team has some security that Scola signs the kind of contract, he was asking last years from the Spurs. (reported were 3 years /10 million).
there will be some teams, that would bite, because it is a very reasonable contract for a player like him.
I could see that the Nets, Bulls, Sixers, Raptors (depending on what they know about Garbajosa's injury and his chance to come back), Bobcats, Rockets, Lakers might have some interest, considering their needs and their system.
if at least two teams have a significant interest it would help to raise the price.

From a trade-up perspective...(as of 2 Apr)

Charlotte from Toronto at 22
Lakers at 19
Philly from Denver at 18
New Jersey at 16

[Mr. Body]

I'd think Scola's agent would be put in contact with any team wanting to trade for Scola's rights.

[Bruno]

Or the Spurs lose his rights.
But my point was that it never really goes down like that. If Mahinmi tries to be a hardass with the stats he's put up (which I don't think are all his fault) he'll look horrible.



I don't see why he will look horrible.
If Mahinmi want to try to play in nba, he should be able to do it even if Spurs' FO thinks that he isn't ready.
When you draft a 18 years old player, you had to accept to have some non productive years from him.

[AFBlue]

Good use of emoticons.

Thanks ;)

[mountainballer]

From a trade-up perspective...(as of 2 Apr)

Charlotte from Toronto at 22
Lakers at 19
Philly from Denver at 18
New Jersey at 16

yes, I thought that the Sixers (Nuggets) pick at 18 and the Bobcats (Raptors) pick at 22 look like the best option for the Spurs in a trade up scenario.
again- if a team has the security (don't know how somewhat like this can be pre arranged under the rules) that Scola signs with them for a sure prce it could work.
if teams give away the pick in a good draft year, just to learn that (for example) Scola now wants the full MLE for 5 years, or that he just doesn't want to play in Charlotte, their FO would look very very poor, especially if the Spurs find a good player with their pick.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see why he will look horrible.
If Mahinmi want to try to play in nba, he should be able to do it even if Spurs' FO thinks that he isn't ready.
When you draft a 18 years old player, you had to accept to have some non productive years from him.

Strong-arming an employer does not look good to other prospective employers. Goes double or triple for a closed, collaborative ownership system like the NBA, but it would also affect him somewhat if he played again in Europe. It'd be a 'bad faith' move of the type it took Boozer a long time to live down and only through a good amount of success.

[Bruno]

Strong-arming an employer does not look good to other prospective employers. Goes double or triple for a closed, collaborative ownership system like the NBA, but it would also affect him somewhat if he played again in Europe. It'd be a 'bad faith' move of the type it took Boozer a long time to live down and only through a good amount of success.

I don't see at all the link with Boozer. :rolleyes

It will give more a bad reputation to Spurs FO. You don't draft a young player if you don't accept to have some unproductive years from him.

[Mr. Body]

if teams give away the pick in a good draft year, just to learn that (for example) Scola now wants the full MLE for 5 years, or that he just doesn't want to play in Charlotte, their FO would look very very poor, especially if the Spurs find a good player with their pick.

As I mentioned above, any team wanting to trade for Scola would in all likelihood be put in heavy contact with his agent, so they'd know his demands.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see at all the link with Boozer. :rolleyes

Bad faith. Do you know what 'bad faith' means?

[Bruno]

Bad faith. Do you know what 'bad faith' means?

yes and I don't see why you put the "bad faith" label with Mahinmi and why you put him in the same sentence than Boozer who ahs broekn a promise made with Cleveland.

When a freshman or a HS player who isn't nba ready, enter in the draft, it's a bad faith move that give them a bad reputation for years ?

Spurs will be more bad faith in this scenario : a nba team waiting that its first round pick are productive to sign them.... Greedy.

[Mr. Body]

To force a team into a contract that is offered as a honored formality is a bad faith move that would not only put that player on shaky footing with that team, but could put any future contracts in a bad light.

[Bruno]

To force a team into a contract that is offered as a honored formality

It's not a formality.

Do you realize that if Spurs don't like Mahinmi or think that he sin't worth a first round pick contract, they can renounce to his nba rights ?
You had to choose : either you like a player and offer him a contract or you don't like a player and you let him free to sign with another team. You can't have both.

And before using the bad faith tag, think at that : if Mahinmi has tomorrow a carreer ending injury, he won't earn his nba contract money. By staying in europe for two years, he has taken the risk to lose a lot of money.

[Mr. Body]

It's not a formality.

Do you realize that if Spurs don't like Mahinmi or think that he sin't worth a first round pick contract, they can renounce to his nba rights ?
You had to choose : either you like a player and offer him a contract or you don't like a player and you let him free to sign with another team. You can't have both.

And before using the bad faith tag, think at that : if Mahinmi has tomorrow a carreer ending injury, he won't earn his nba contract money. By staying in europe for two years, he has taken the risk to lose a lot of money.

I don't think you're following the discussion. We're talking about these contract formalities Mahinmi apparently is receiving every summer so the Spurs retain his rights. If he turned around and signed one of those contracts, when they explicitly do not want him quite yet, that would be characterized as a bad faith contractual move on his part. This has nothing to do with the Spurs thinking or not thinking he is worth a first round pick or renouncing his rights. Future injuries on his part is inconsequential to what we're talking about, which is specifically these contract formalities happening last and this summer and how it would be regarded if Mahinmi suddenly signed and made those formalities official.

[Bruno]

I don't think you're following the discussion. We're talking about these contract formalities Mahinmi apparently is receiving every summer so the Spurs retain his rights. If he turned around and signed one of those contracts, when they explicitly do not want him quite yet, that would be characterized as a bad faith contractual move on his part. This has nothing to do with the Spurs thinking or not thinking he is worth a first round pick or renouncing his rights.

RIF : I've said first round pick contract.

You call that contract formalities but it's not a formality. :rolleyes
If you want to retain draft rights to a player, you must be ready to give a contract to this player. Is it that hard to understand ?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#44
Bulls weren't ready to give Knight a contract and they have renounced to him.
Making a tender offer isn't something automatic, it's a choice.

The bad faith move would be that Mahinmi say to Spurs that he will stay in europe and then sign the tender contract.
If Mahinmi say before Spurs make the tender offer that he will sign it, it's not at all a bad faith. It's up to Spurs to decide if they will do it or not.

[Mr. Body]

With Mahinmi's relationship with the Spurs, if they put a formal contract in front of him this summer and he signs it, that is bad faith. This really isn't that hard.

[ducks]

I'm with Kori here: Scola will be traded and to a team that wants him over right away. He'll be seen in an NBA uniform next season, but not as a Spur.

Question is what they get for him.
brewer :drunk

[Bruno]

With Mahinmi's relationship with the Spurs, if they put a formal contract in front of him this summer and he signs it, that is bad faith. This really isn't that hard.

I will be slow because you have a lot of diffiulties to understand.

Step by step :

- Mahinmi says that he wants to play in nba next year.
- Spurs have to decide if they are ready to give him a first round pick contract :
- If they aren't ready, they will renounce to him. Mahinmi will becom a free agent and try to sign with another team
- If they are ready, they will sign him.

Spurs' can't make a tender offer, knowing Mahinmi wants to play in nba, and hoping that he won't sign it. It makes no sense at all.

Tender offer is a formal contract as long as the player agrees to stay overseas. As soon as the player wants to play in nba, it's no more a formality because it prevents the player to sign with another team.

[ArgSpursFan]

if this kid mahimni wants to play in the NBA next year,he needs to start showing what he is made of in Europe ,but right now!
For what Ive seen from him this year,He wont be able to play even in the Dleague.Sorry Ian.

[Mr. Body]

Bruno, I haven't seen anywhere that Mahinmi insists on playing in the NBA next year. He has done nothing to force the Spurs' hand one way or another, whether to bring him over or else renounce his rights. He is in no absolutely no position to do so, and if he has made any sounds otherwise, he's an idiot. That said, if he decides to trick the Spurs into signing him this summer as you claim he should/will, well, that's just about unprecedented. It's bad business all around, will show him in a bad light, as well as his agent. In fact, his agent stands to be hurt the most from that kind of bush league play.

[Darkwaters]

if this kid mahimni wants to play in the NBA next year,he needs to start showing what he is made of in Europe ,but right now!
For what Ive seen from him this year,He wont be able to play even in the Dleague.Sorry Ian.

Do you really think his euro team is going to give him serious minutes considering his status with the Spurs. They aren't going to waste a whole lot of energy developing a guy that will likely be gone in 12-24 months when they have other more long-term prospects.

[T Park]

if this kid mahimni wants to play in the NBA next year,he needs to start showing what he is made of in Europe ,but right now!
For what Ive seen from him this year,He wont be able to play even in the Dleague.Sorry Ian.

The team wouldn't hardly play him, so id say that assumption is unfounded.

[mountainballer]

As I mentioned above, any team wanting to trade for Scola would in all likelihood be put in heavy contact with his agent, so they'd know his demands.

yes, but I was just asking, if there are some restricitions for something like that. because in fact the other team would negotiate the contract with Scola and there are restrictions for such actions. so my question was, if the Spurs can give permission, that another team negotiates with Scola.

I mentioned in the Herrmann thread, that Spurs fans should be happy about the recent great play of Herrmann, because this also somehow raises the value of Scola's rights, considering that Scola is the far more talented player.
if the Bobcats are interested, because they fell in love with the Argentinian school of basketball, it would be the perfect situation.
(yes, they have 3 PFs under contract, but Harrington isn't part of the rotation any more and likely will get traded or waived, May looks more and more like one of thoses injury prone players, who misses half of every season with several injuries, Okafor might have to play more center, if Brezec leaves, etc.). so Bobcats might be interested. and since the Ely trade we know, that Spurs know Bickerstaff's number.

there would be several possible scenarios:
Bobcats trade the Raptors pick to Spurs for Scola's rights.
(the perfect deal for the Spurs, I guess they wouldn't hesitate to do this)
the pick for Scola + Spur's 2nd rounders. (also a good deal)
Bobcats trade the pick for Scola's rights + Buck's 2nd rounder.
(so virtually we trade up from no.33 to no.22, still a nice output of Scola's rights)
the pick for Scola + Spurs 1st rounder (trade up of 6-7 spots).
this is IMO something the Bobcats wouldn't hesitate to do. they will get a top player out of this draft anyhow, the 2nd pick will be used for a complementary player, they will also be able to find with the Spurs 1st rounder. Scola would be like an additional 1st rounder.
question: would the Spurs do this, to win 6 or 7 spots?
(considering, that it would usually take another late 1st rounder to move up that much, Scola's rights would be rated like a late 1st.) this wouldn't be a great deal, but at least Spurs get something out of his rights.

[AFBlue]

Do you really think his euro team is going to give him serious minutes considering his status with the Spurs. They aren't going to waste a whole lot of energy developing a guy that will likely be gone in 12-24 months when they have other more long-term prospects.

Actually that's the case with Pau....they've got this Vaty kid that they're looking to develop. Wherever he goes, it would obviously be best for his development if he gets on-court time or specific attention. IMO, the best place for him to be is NBADL, but that would mean he takes up a roster spot.

Side Note:

I wish the NBA would amend their roster rule concerning NBDL players and make it more like the MLB and it's minor league system. A team should be able to carry 18-20 players on their total roster, but only be allowed 15 at the NBA-level. If the team wants to bring up an individual (because of injury, etc.), they'll have to send someone down. For example, assume Mahinmi is in the NBDL and Elson goes down with a season-ending injury...the Spurs could bring up Mahinmi for depth and send down White.

This would build up the NBDL base and promote stability within both systems, making it more like a true minor-league system.

[mountainballer]

Actually that's the case with Pau....they've got this Vaty kid that they're looking to develop.


sorry to counter this, but I have now several times read this "Pau wants to develope Vathy and that's why Ian doesn't get playing time" myth.
this is just not the case.
Ian's struggle doesn't have anything to do with Vathy.

Pau signed Ian, because their coach Gordon Herbert, who has a close connection to the Spurs (summer league) convinced Ian to sign with them and Spurs also adviced Ian to do so.
Ian himself had preferences to sign with LeMans, but was persuaded to chose Pau.
Pau signed him, because they thought they sign a rising star, who helps them to achive their two targets: to win the French league title and to reach the Euroleague top 16.
they knew at that moment, that Ian will go to NBA and they already had Vathy on their roster, who plays for their youth programm.
Vathy is still playing for Pau's youth (espoirs) team this season.

the whole story is completly different:
Ian was projected to be the starting PF for Pau this season and he was part of the starting line-up for the first 8 weeks. Ian was completly overchallenged in this role, so Pau hired Michael Wright, a former Knicks pick, who never made it to the NBA and was a journey man in Europe and recently played in South Korea.
Ian's role and minutes just went to him, Ian ended as the back-up, playing reduced minutes, which he sometimes further reduced by himself by fouling out almost within a few seconds.
(and no Pau didn't suddenly decide to now "develope" Wright. he has a one year contract and as usual he will likely leave the team this summer)
not a single of Ian's minutes went to Vathy, as now is mentioned in an almost conspirency theory against Ian.
Ian just didn't play good enough to keep his spot or to win it back again.
end of story.
people here can like it or not, but an unpleasant fact doesn't turn into a story we would better like to hear by cooking up a legend.

i already got a lot of bashing on this board, just because I told the my impression and not always list up even inapplicable reasons why Ian couldn't ever have done better this year.
I can't help, this is what I saw. and it wasn't a future NBA player. I wish I could tell another story and I wish that a miracle happens, that proves me wrong.

[Mr. Body]

there would be several possible scenarios:
Bobcats trade the Raptors pick to Spurs for Scola's rights.
(the perfect deal for the Spurs, I guess they wouldn't hesitate to do this)
the pick for Scola + Spur's 2nd rounders. (also a good deal)
Bobcats trade the pick for Scola's rights + Buck's 2nd rounder.
(so virtually we trade up from no.33 to no.22, still a nice output of Scola's rights)
the pick for Scola + Spurs 1st rounder (trade up of 6-7 spots).

I'm not sure Scola was worth a first rounder straight up in a bad year - hard to tell. Obviously that would be best. If the Spurs could move up the Milwaukee pick into the first round using Scola, that would be aces, but I honestly don't know what Scola is worth. Looking at it, Scola for the #22 does seem reasonable. The Spurs could try to turn around and trade the 22 and 28 up into the teens, but that may be tough. Teams don't have a lot of roster spaces lying around.

[mardigan]

Marcus Williams from Arizona has declared for the draft today

[Mr. Body]

Marcus Williams from Arizona has declared for the draft today

Word was Lute was pushing him out the door. Mid to late first round. Good for the Spurs, but the SFs the Spurs need aren't falling that far, anyway.

[mountainballer]

Marcus Williams from Arizona has declared for the draft today

good news.
the question is, would the Spurs consdider him, if he falls to the 28th spot?
skills and size are there (nbadraft writes about a 7-1 wingspan) and he is an above average rebounder.
on the downside he isn't an outstanding athlete, not a good defender and his attitude is also a question mark.
so rather no. best case is, he is picked around 20 and pushes another SF down the board to our hands. (Byars, McGuire)

[AFBlue]

good news.
the question is, would the Spurs consdider him, if he falls to the 28th spot?
skills and size are there (nbadraft writes about a 7-1 wingspan) and he is an above average rebounder.
on the downside he isn't an outstanding athlete, not a good defender and his attitude is also a question mark.
so rather no. best case is, he is picked around 20 and pushes another SF down the board to our hands. (Byars, McGuire)

According to Chad Ford's analysis, Williams is a great defender. I take this to mean that he has the ability (wingspan, etc.) to be a great defender, but maybe he doesn't always have the motivation (questionable work ethic).

Again, I think the Spurs have a 2/3 prospect in White, and if they can get youth at another position, it might be best not to use draft picks on players with similar skill sets.

[Mr. Body]

Williams is an average defender to above average. That that Arizona team sucked so much this year with a good amount of talent smirches him up a bit, considering he was their top talent. I don't think he's a Spurs player, but the true value is that he pushes someone else down a spot.

[AFBlue]

Williams is an average defender to above average. That that Arizona team sucked so much this year with a good amount of talent smirches him up a bit, considering he was their top talent. I don't think he's a Spurs player, but the true value is that he pushes someone else down a spot.

Actually, Chase Budinger is the one on that team who would likely go the highest if he declared....did he say difinitively what he's doing? Any news on Chase?

[Mr. Body]

Actually, Chase Budinger is the one on that team who would likely go the highest if he declared....did he say difinitively what he's doing? Any news on Chase?

I meant that Williams was the 'leader' of the team, or should have been, not necessarily having the most potential. But he was passive, Shakur crapped out, and it was left to Radenovic to valiantly struggle on.

[ArgSpursFan]

The team wouldn't hardly play him, so id say that assumption is unfounded.

If he is not good enough right now to get minutes in a mediocre team in Europe.Do you really think He´ll show Pop He deseves to play in the NBA?

[Bruno]

i already got a lot of bashing on this board, just because I told the my impression

You have been bashed because you speak about a subject you obviously don't know.

You speak about a team and you don't know the names of the player. It's Vaty, not Vathy. Will I be credible if I speak about Spurs and Brice Bowan ?

You speak about a team and you don't know at what post players are. Mahinmi and Wright are C with pau, not PF. Will I be credible if I called Horry a SF ?

You speak about a team and you don't know what happened with this team. Mahinmi never sign to be a starter with Pau, he signed as backup C behind Hiram Fuller. After they failed to sign Fuller and after Mahinmi good summer league, they decided to give the starting spot to Mahinmi but he failed and then they signed Wright. Will I be credible if I say that Spurs have signed Vaughn as starting PG ?

[AFBlue]

Any chance Tiago Splitter drops to the end of the first round because of buyout concerns and scouts souring on him? He's smart, has good post skills, plays good defense, and he would allow the Spurs the opportunity to trade Scola's rights and get something in return...what do you think?

[mardigan]

Any chance Tiago Splitter drops to the end of the first round because of buyout concerns and scouts souring on him? He's smart, has good post skills, plays good defense, and he would allow the Spurs the opportunity to trade Scola's rights and get something in return...what do you think?
Guy has no offensive scoring ability, but he is a big tough defender, I would think that if he somehow slipped that far the Spurs would have a hard time not taking him

[Mr. Body]

Any chance Tiago Splitter drops to the end of the first round because of buyout concerns and scouts souring on him? He's smart, has good post skills, plays good defense, and he would allow the Spurs the opportunity to trade Scola's rights and get something in return...what do you think?

He could drop to the 20s. The problem with going so late at 28 is that there's enough crowing and cawing about players perceived to have gone higher that someone is bound to grab them before you. Phoenix has a handful of picks this year and probably doesn't want to use them all - I could see them taking Splitter and stashing him for a year. But it would be funny to see San Antonio subsequently draft Scola's teammate and bring him over instead.

I don't think any top 15 talent (including Splitter) will drop to 28.

[mardigan]

All 4 of the Gator boys are coming out

[Mr. Body]

All 4 of the Gator boys are coming out

I always thought there was something fishy going on with them.

[mardigan]

Spencer Hawes is going to enter the draft

[Peter]

Chicago has the 10th best record in the league. Should they finish in that position do the Spurs receive Chicago's 2nd round pick?

[Peter]

Ok, I checked it out. They have to finish with the 9th best (top 51 protected) for the Spurs to receive the pick.

[texbound]

Chicago has the 10th best record in the league. Should they finish in that position do the Spurs receive Chicago's 2nd round pick?

As of today, Chicago is sitting at eight. Unless I'm missing something in regards to the seedings. If not, then the Bulls actualy have a chance of jumping up 1 or 2 slots

1.) Dal 62 12
2.) Pho 56 18
3.) San 53 21
4.) Uta 48 26
5.) Det 48 27
6.) Hou 47 28
7.) Cle 45 30
8.) Chi 45 31
9.) Tor 42 33
10.) Mia 40 34
11.) Was 39 35
12.) LAL 39 36

[AFBlue]

Guy has no offensive scoring ability, but he is a big tough defender, I would think that if he somehow slipped that far the Spurs would have a hard time not taking him

Tiago has been very aggressive and is being utilized more at Tau as the season has wore on.

His stats in the Euroleague playoffs....

14pts and 5+ rebounds in 24 mpg average, hitting 18 twice

In the two "final four" playoff games here's the stat line...

5pts 5rebs in game one, then 18pts 9rebs in the next


He's shooting over 57% on the season, averaging 11ppg and 6rpg....that ain't bad.

[AFBlue]

Spencer Hawes is going to enter the draft

Great news...along with the Gators declaring (which was inevitable). The more prospects the better....

[Mr. Body]

This draft is going to be ridiculous. The NBA can go on this one for years.

[AFBlue]

This draft is going to be ridiculous. The NBA can go on this one for years.

I'm giddy.... :elephant

[Mr. Body]

I know Travis Outlaw was discussed somewhere in this thread. I was just looking at some youtube videos of him. He's a block machine and has good anticipation for steals. A bit underwhelming in production in other areas so far in his career, but not yet 23. Someone speculated he could be available, and I wonder if the Blazers wind up with Corey Brewer or someone if he might be had. There are certainly enough good SF prospects floating around, someday it seems we should get one.

[Pugglekicker_21]

I like Antanas Kavaliauskas. But im not sure if he will enter, or if the spurs want him...

[mardigan]

I like Antanas Kavaliauskas. But im not sure if he will enter, or if the spurs want him...
I dont think either

[wildbill2u]

I'm not sure Scola was worth a first rounder straight up in a bad year - hard to tell. Obviously that would be best. If the Spurs could move up the Milwaukee pick into the first round using Scola, that would be aces, but I honestly don't know what Scola is worth. Looking at it, Scola for the #22 does seem reasonable. The Spurs could try to turn around and trade the 22 and 28 up into the teens, but that may be tough. Teams don't have a lot of roster spaces lying around.
I'm wondering if the Scola ship has sailed. There are a LOT of good young PFs coming into this draft. While Scola has proven himself in Euro leagues, the book on Euros coming into the NBA is that it takes at least a year to adjust to the NBA style of play. His value, considering this year's draft, may not be as great as before, even with another year of that terrible contract off the books.

[AFBlue]

I know Travis Outlaw was discussed somewhere in this thread. I was just looking at some youtube videos of him. He's a block machine and has good anticipation for steals. A bit underwhelming in production in other areas so far in his career, but not yet 23. Someone speculated he could be available, and I wonder if the Blazers wind up with Corey Brewer or someone if he might be had. There are certainly enough good SF prospects floating around, someday it seems we should get one.

Blazers could go SF in the draft, or they could add one of the PFs (Horford) freeing them up to get rid of Randolph if that's the direction the organization wants to go.

Side Note: I was the one that suggested Outlaw and I think it's a possibility, but he's restricted FA so Portland would have the opportunity to match. If they get a SF, then that chance significantly decreases....remember they also have Martell Webster and Darius Miles should be back next year with his $10M salary...

[AFBlue]

I'm wondering if the Scola ship has sailed. There are a LOT of good young PFs coming into this draft. While Scola has proven himself in Euro leagues, the book on Euros coming into the NBA is that it takes at least a year to adjust to the NBA style of play. His value, considering this year's draft, may not be as great as before, even with another year of that terrible contract off the books.

Most of those "Euros" you speak about are guards or perimeter-oriented forwards that have to adjust to the NBA three-point line and defenses. That's not to say Scola wouldn't have to adjust to the more athletic post defenders, but I think since he relies on a game closer to the basket he'll have less of an adjustment period.

On his trade value, I've always maintained that the Spurs would be best served bringing him over and letting his game establish his trade value, rather than being an unknown commodity without a contract. But, if his "ship has sailed" it'll be interesting to see what the Spurs get for him.

[AFBlue]

BTW, Scola and Splitter (previously discussed) both had HUGE nights against Olympiakos in their second game of the Euroleague semifinals...

Scola's Line: 20 points on 6/13 from the field and 8/9 from the FT line in 30 minutes. He also had 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, and 2 blocks.

Splitter's Line: 18 points on 7/9 from the field and 4/9 from the FT line in 32 minutes. He also had 9 rebounds, 2 steals, and a block.

It's kind of nice for the Spurs to have the luxury of a guy like Scola as a trade piece or future starter.

[Nbadan]

Yeah, I'm not sure the Spurs pass on this draft, not with a good draft and especially not with an aging roster. I'm not sure what they could toss their picks away for and I'm not sure how they come away after having three to four picks with not even a single rookie on the roster.

The Spurs passed on Barbosa (to Phoenix) with Josh Howard still on the board a few years back. Don't underestimate POP's contempt for rookies.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs passed on Barbosa (to Phoenix) with Josh Howard still on the board a few years back. Don't underestimate POP's contempt for rookies.

They did, but because the situation was different. They were supposedly wanting to clear cap space for Kidd, but more to the point, there seems to be threshold of young players Pop wants to take at any one time. They didn't really need a rookie at that point, but now they do. Question is whether White and Butler count and will continue to count next year (being here).

[wildbill2u]

Most of those "Euros" you speak about are guards or perimeter-oriented forwards that have to adjust to the NBA three-point line and defenses. That's not to say Scola wouldn't have to adjust to the more athletic post defenders, but I think since he relies on a game closer to the basket he'll have less of an adjustment period.

On his trade value, I've always maintained that the Spurs would be best served bringing him over and letting his game establish his trade value, rather than being an unknown commodity without a contract. But, if his "ship has sailed" it'll be interesting to see what the Spurs get for him.
Not just guards or perimeter forwards. Frankly, I think those guys adjust faster. How about Oberto? For that matter how about Yao. Even a 7'6'' center with a sweet shot and great Fts took a year or so to really adjust.

Not saying that Scola couldn't play here, but it might take a while to be as productive as he has been in Europe. Meanwhile, how old is he and how many years are left if takes a season to adjust. And in a year filled with Pfs he may not have the value he had a year or two ago.

[El_Mago]

If the Spurs stick with their pick in the 1st:

Thaddeus Young
or
Alando Tucker

[mardigan]

If the Spurs stick with their pick in the 1st:

Thaddeus Young
or
Alando Tucker
Tucker will be a huge mistake to take in the first. Young has potential and is very raw, I dont think he should come out, but if he does I doubt he would be there when we picked.

[wildbill2u]

Chicago is no. 8 right now. Are we gonna get their pick? What do you all think