Reasonable trade ideas [Archive] - Page 2

pad300

01-23-2007, 02:34 PM

A couple of fine tuning trades...

1) Objective : Backup SF for Bowen & Small ball PF.
Suggested Solution : James Singleton, LAC
Core Deal - Singleton for James White or Beno Udrih
Initial Offer : White/Udrih for Singleton
Willing to Pay : Up to White + Beno or Udrih/White + 2nd round pick

2) 4/5 reinforcement and a more reliable backup PG

Suggested Solution: Trade with the Phillies for Kevin Ollie & Steven Hunter
Basic Deal - Hunter, Ollie for Eric Williams, Butler
Initial Offer - Butler & Williams + 2nd round pick for Hunter, Ollie
Willing to Pay: Butler, Williams, Spurs 1st/rights to Scola for Hunter, Ollie, Philly 2nd.

or Alternative larger deal

Basic Deal
Hunter, Ollie, Joe Smith for Williams, Butler, Bonner, Finley
Willing to Pay : Butler, Williams, Bonner, Finley, Spurs 1st/Rights to Scola for Hunter, Ollie, Joe Smith, Philly 2nd

Note : The larger deal may be much more attractive for Philly - it makes a significant saving in lux tax for them this year ( and the next 2 years, as Webbers contract comes off the books). However, it forces the Spurs into Lux tax territory this year. On the other hand, Smith's expiring contract is larger than that of Bonner and Williams combined.

ArgSpursFan

01-23-2007, 03:07 PM

Najera would be a VERY GOOD addition as he can play hard-nosed defence against Josh Howard and even Dirk Nowitzki. He can also rebound and is an all-around winner/hustle player. Foster is a great offensive rebounder and is also a perfect fit for Spurs.

We need to address rebounding and small forward deficit so between the two, Najera is probably a better fit as he can play different roles whereas Foster is strictly a garbage pick-up guy with great rebounding skills.

I like Najera,good D,big heart.

I´d do Finley for Najera stright up

AFBlue

01-23-2007, 03:09 PM

Vasquez looks like a solid pick despite the fact that he has been unwilling to come over to the NBA. Before the team makes any trades to bring over an international player they need to have some discussions with the guy to ensure that he will be in uniform.

Apparently, Vasquez turned down the spot on the magic because he didn't want to be "Dwight Howard's career backup". Surely he wouldn't want to be behind Duncan either then. Do we think he could be a starting center-type of guy?

Howard is the franchise cornerstone at 21 years old and has potentially 15 more years with the organization. Duncan is not Vasquez' peer in any way and has probably 5 or 6 years left in the black and silver. There's a difference...

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 03:15 PM

Read a little more into the Magic trade rumors and apparently they're looking for inside help....so here's one more.

Barry + Butler (+ pick?) for Arroyo + Trevor Ariza + Rights to Fran Vasquez

The Magic get a shooter and another inside presence....

The Spurs get the backup PG, the long three, and a replacement for Butler in the long-term.
Hell, throw in rights to scola as well!!

ArgSpursFan

01-23-2007, 03:30 PM

yeah,and throw Duncan in there too.....

Big P

01-23-2007, 03:52 PM

Big P

01-23-2007, 03:55 PM

ArgSpursFan

01-23-2007, 03:57 PM

The larger Philly deal is horrible for the Spurs..& we throw in Scolas rights?
No thanks.

Damn right

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:01 PM

Barry and Beno- Duhon and Khrypa

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:07 PM

Barry and Beno- Duhon and KhrypaWhy would Chicago do that?

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:08 PM

dixon-oulaw- beno, williams, scola rights

Chris Childs

01-23-2007, 04:09 PM

Why would Chicago do that?

Thats actually good trade for the spurs!
I will get that done in a heartbeat!

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:09 PM

Why would Chicago do that?
Why not!!
I think barry would be great for that team and krypa barely get PT..

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:10 PM

Why not!!Because they are looking for a post scoring big man!!

Mr. Body

01-23-2007, 04:12 PM

I could see Chicago post that trade if it included Scola, but not until this summer.

I forget who originally suggested it on this board -- Scola+Barry or Scola+Williams/Udrih for Duhon+Khryapa.

Chris Childs

01-23-2007, 04:13 PM

I could see Chicago post that trade if it included Scola, but not until this summer.

I forget who originally suggested it on this board -- Scola+Barry or Scola+Williams/Udrih for Duhon+Khryapa.

What's wrong with Scola?

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:19 PM

Because they are looking for a post scoring big man!!
Thats why scola is included in the deal and could help bulls possible as early as next year for alot less $ than a FA signing..

ArgSpursFan

01-23-2007, 04:20 PM

What's wrong with Scola?

I don´t lnow man,they just don´t see the whole picture

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:24 PM

Thats why scola is included in the deal and could help bulls possible as early as next yearThey want help now.
for alot less $ than a FA signing..Negative. If Scola was going to go for alot less than a FA signing, he'd already be a Spur.

Mr. Body

01-23-2007, 04:26 PM

FWIU, Scola could have been had at $3M/per. That's very cheap for a (potentially) good inside scorer.

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:30 PM

They want help now.Negative. If Scola was going to go for alot less than a FA signing, he'd already be a Spur.
Ok how about this then..
Duhon, Kryhpa, Sefolosha, 2nd round pick -Beno, barry, butler, Scola rights
better or worse??

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:31 PM

I think you haven't seen Bulter "play basketball" this season.

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:31 PM

Maybe the bulls havn't either.

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:35 PM

I think if the Sonics let Andre Brown go, the Bulls could pick him up and be ready for a post season run without trading for any of our detritus.

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:41 PM

Andre brown, are you kidding me!!If that is all their missing for a deep run into the playoffs then they probably should do their shopping in the NBDL!!

pad300

01-23-2007, 04:43 PM

The larger Philly deal is horrible for the Spurs..& we throw in Scolas rights?
No thanks.

You think the larger Philly deal is bad for us? We don't play Williams, Bonner is out for at least a couple more weeks and will have the usual trouble working back into the rotation afterwards (see what happened to Rasho in 2005), Finley is not playing well to put it mildly, Butler is not projected to play for us this year either (and is showing no signs of being a "stud" as a project either).
Ollie would take either 2nd or 3ed PG spot, and I think he'd be considerably better than Beno. Compare them on 82 games -
Beno
http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS3A.HTM
Ollie
http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI4A.HTM
Statistically, Ollie is a better shot (EFG%), a better passer, a better rebounder, and makes less TO's.
Both Hunter and Smith would make it into our big rotation beside Duncan. In particular, having Hunter and Elson would allow us to have a "fast" big on the floor for 40+ mpg, allowing us to eliminate small ball entirely if we so choose...

Yeah, financially, the spurs pay a penalty this year (Lux tax + no distribution), but 1) It's not my money, and 2) Smith's expiring is big ~ 6.75 million this year, and would take them well under cap for next year (relatively, Bonner and Williams total to ~6.3 million).

How is this a bad trade for the Spurs? They get rid of people they don't use or aren't playing well, and get back people they would use.

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:43 PM

Andre brown, are you kidding me!!If that is all their missing for a deep run into the playoffs then they probably should do their shopping in the NBDL!!That's exactly what I'm saying. Do you know who Andre Brown is?

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:49 PM

Yes, rookie forward for the sonics. Still not understanding your reasoning on the trade offer with scola included

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:52 PM

Yes, rookie forward for the sonics. Still not understanding your reasoning on the trade offer with scola includedIt sucks. That's my reasoning. They could pick up a guy that has actually played in the NBA for nothing and could conceivably contribute this season. Your trade does nothing for them this season and probably even less for the future considering the trade package possiblities it ruins for them

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 04:58 PM

I consistently see you put down everyones ideas on how to improve the spurs but rarely see any ideas of your own??Maybe I have missed it in this thread but what logical trade or idea needs to be done for improvements for this year and next for the spurs?

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 04:59 PM

I put down all of my own ideas before I post them.

wildbill2u

01-23-2007, 05:03 PM

Najera would be a VERY GOOD addition as he can play hard-nosed defence against Josh Howard and even Dirk Nowitzki. He can also rebound and is an all-around winner/hustle player. Foster is a great offensive rebounder and is also a perfect fit for Spurs.

We need to address rebounding and small forward deficit so between the two, Najera is probably a better fit as he can play different roles whereas Foster is strictly a garbage pick-up guy with great rebounding skills.
Najera is 31, a four rebounds and five points a game career bench player. Why would we want to go old and mediocre?

My God, if this is the best we can do there really is noone out there.

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 05:04 PM

Try putting down your put downs and enjoy life a little more.

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 05:04 PM

Try putting down your put downs and enjoy life a little more.I enjoy putting down trade ideas.

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 05:09 PM

you are truly a master of put downs, congratulations.

Big P

01-23-2007, 05:19 PM

You think the larger Philly deal is bad for us? We don't play Williams, Bonner is out for at least a couple more weeks and will have the usual trouble working back into the rotation afterwards (see what happened to Rasho in 2005), Finley is not playing well to put it mildly, Butler is not projected to play for us this year either (and is showing no signs of being a "stud" as a project either).
Ollie would take either 2nd or 3ed PG spot, and I think he'd be considerably better than Beno. Compare them on 82 games -
Beno
http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS3A.HTM
Ollie
http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI4A.HTM
Statistically, Ollie is a better shot (EFG%), a better passer, a better rebounder, and makes less TO's.
Both Hunter and Smith would make it into our big rotation beside Duncan. In particular, having Hunter and Elson would allow us to have a "fast" big on the floor for 40+ mpg, allowing us to eliminate small ball entirely if we so choose...

Yeah, financially, the spurs pay a penalty this year (Lux tax + no distribution), but 1) It's not my money, and 2) Smith's expiring is big ~ 6.75 million this year, and would take them well under cap for next year (relatively, Bonner and Williams total to ~6.3 million).

How is this a bad trade for the Spurs? They get rid of people they don't use or aren't playing well, and get back people they would use.

1. It screws up our future cap space.
2. We throw in Scola for no apparent reason.
3. We dont even get a first round pick back for all of that.

If we are going to throw Scola in, I would rather do a deal with Chicago & get back players like Khrypa & Duhon...areas where we need help.

pad300

01-23-2007, 05:49 PM

1. It screws up our future cap space.
2. We throw in Scola for no apparent reason.
3. We dont even get a first round pick back for all of that.

If we are going to throw Scola in, I would rather do a deal with Chicago & get back players like Khrypa & Duhon...areas where we need help.

1) Finley and Ollie's contracts match in length and are very close in value. Bonner and William's expiring contracts are exceeded in value by Smith's expiring. Hunter's contract is approximately 1 million per year bigger than Butler's, and he'll be doing something useful on the court. A decent backup center on that contract is a deal. Particularly if locked in for long term over a players most productive years (which it is!). That's not what I would call screwing up our cap space...
2) Scola is in so the deal actually goes through. Remember Philly wants something out of this as well. They don't want to win this season, they are going for ping-pong balls. So they want prospects (Butler and Scola!) whom we aren't using, and they get to save some money on the lux tax.
3) You really believe that other teams are gonna give away first round picks? As it is, we get Philly's 2nd, which will be 31-35. The best we might hope to get from Philly is Dallas's 1st, which is 28-30, and that's a contract that we will be stuck with if he busts. It eats cap-space and is more difficult to convince to stay overseas for a couple of years...

PS. if you think Chicago is going to give out Kryapha and Duhon for Scola during the season, you're wrong. They can always do that deal during summer, without helping out a team they may play in the finals, and possibly gimping their back-up PG spot (without getting themselves a player to fill their post scoring problem).

Mr. Body

01-23-2007, 05:51 PM

Thing is, Scola is actually worth Khryapa+Duhon. He's worth well more than Ollie+Hunter.

ChumpDumper

01-23-2007, 05:53 PM

Is he?

pad300

01-23-2007, 05:59 PM

Thing is, Scola is actually worth Khryapa+Duhon. He's worth well more than Ollie+Hunter.

Really, according the Spurs FO, Scola's worth less than $10 million/3 years and a roster spot...
If he never comes to the NBA, he's not worth much!
If you really think that they would agree to this trade with the Bucks 2nd round pick in place of Scola, the Spurs can go ahead and try it, but I wouldn't expect a trade to go through unless the Spurs are willing to cough up something that's an actual asset.
Same thing with the clippers trade. To get Singleton, you have to put something on the board. He's not likely to come for White or Udrih alone.

Big P

01-23-2007, 05:59 PM

Sorry..I just don't see how Steven Hunter & Kevin Ollie are going to put us over the top. Hunter is signed for 3 more years after this one & he is not worth $3.5 mil of our cap every year until 2010. And about Chicago sending us Duhon & Khrypa for Scola during the season, you are right..but that goes for just about every other team as well. The Spurs dont really have any assets beyond Barry, EWills contract & Scola, & there are not going to be many, if any, teams that are going to trade us something useful during the season. We are probably going to be going with the team we have right now, hoping that things start "clicking" & if they don't adjustments will be made in the off-season. I know most fans dont want to hear or believe that, but that is just the reality of it.

yavozerb

01-23-2007, 06:00 PM

PAD is right in the fact they would not get much better this year with beno, barry, scola for khrypa and duhon. But, they would not get any worse either and still have the talent to make it as deep as eastern final and get better inside play for next year with scola. People forget how young the bulls and with not a long term obligation to both barry and beno could still save $ after this year.

AFBlue

01-23-2007, 07:49 PM

Okay, so Ariza is untradeable....

Eric Williams + Butler for Arroyo + Pat Garrity + Rights to Fran Vasquez and/or 2007 pick

Spurs get backup PG and potential PF/C of future.

Magic get inside scorer, leverage against losing Darko in the off-season, and clear $4+ cap space to go after Vinsanity this off-season.

EDIT: Or throw out the pick and substitute JJ Redick for Garrity. I know he was their first-rounder this year, but he hasn't really caught on because of injury and is sort of in the coach's doghouse. He'd be a great compliment to Duncan as a spot-up shooter.

mountainballer

01-24-2007, 05:05 AM

there are so many proposals about trades with the Bulls and arguments why they should do this trade or that trade, but most forget the big picture:

Bulls are in position for a blockbuster trade.
no matter if they finally do it or not, they just won't damage their chances to land the big one, by doing some minor trades in the first place.
no franchise (no well run franchise) would do this.
so the Bulls will never ever (for example) trade Duhon+Khryapa right now, when toses player might be usefull or necessary pieces, to get a big trade finalized.

so the chance to talk Chicago into a trade right now are non existing IMO, even if this trades would make sense for both teams.
Spurs could have the chance to somehow get into a big trade, if a third or fourth team is sought, maybe via the expiring contracts.
If Chicago finds out, that the big trade doesn't fullfill their plans, or would cost to much, they will think of doing minor trades like the mentioned one.
but this won't be before deadline.
so, if we focus on a Bulls trade, we have to be patient.

Bruno

01-24-2007, 07:01 AM

Yeah, Bulls won't likely of a small deal now because they are trying to get Gasol.

However, a Gasol trade can be interesting for Spurs. Grizzlies will likely rebuild around their young players, capspace and draft picks. They will try to package Swift, Cardinal and Stoudamire with Gasol to have more capspace.
Cardinal is an overpaid scrub : Sprus should saty away from him.
Swift is dumb but athletic, I don't see him being a good fit (not clever enough to rotate) with Spurs but why not.
Stoudamire can be an interesting case : if Grizz dump him on Bulls, Duhon will be more available and I'm not sure that Grizzlies will be interesting in him over expiring + incentives (Duhon is quite young but he is struggling badly, is a limited player and will eat $3.2M of their capspace next summer).

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 10:10 AM

There is no incentive for Chicago to make a minor trade with Khryapa while the season is in progress, unless they get an inside scorer right away.

And yes, to upthread, Scola is definitely worth more than Ollie+Hunter. Probably the best player in Europe? Absolutely he's worth more than that. Even trading him low would net more than that. Ollie is done and Hunter is overpaid and has plenty of question marks.

mountainballer

01-24-2007, 10:12 AM

However, a Gasol trade can be interesting for Spurs.

yes, that is what I thought about being the third team in a bigger deal. if Gasol ends up in Chicago (and I don't see why not, it looks like a perfect deal for all parts) either the Bulls or the Grizzlies will have an overhang of forewards.
(if Bulls trade Deng, the Grizzlies will have Deng, Gay, Warrick, Miller as SFs, but few real bigs)
if Gordon is part of the package (this is what the Bulls have offered), the Bulls will have to many forewards (they have to many, even right now)

I guess the crucial question will be, if a third team is willing to swallow a bad contract (like the one of Cardinal, but also Swift and Studamire are candidates IMO). if yes, there is a good chance that this team can get their hands on, for example, Warrick.

another point in a trade Grizzlies and Bulls is the guard question. no matter if Gordon is part of the deal or not, the Grizzlies have needs in the backcourt. (can't see them resign Atkins and Jones, when they rebuild) so there might be some interest for Beno. (if yes, it is for sure not excessive)

mountainballer

01-24-2007, 10:16 AM

Ollie is done and Hunter is overpaid and has plenty of question marks.

at 3.2 million (3.4 next season) Ollie is probably even more overpayed than (the in fact overpayed) Hunter.

Darkwaters

01-24-2007, 10:24 AM

2) 4/5 reinforcement and a more reliable backup PG

Suggested Solution: Trade with the Phillies for Kevin Ollie & Steven Hunter
Basic Deal - Hunter, Ollie for Eric Williams, Butler
Initial Offer - Butler & Williams + 2nd round pick for Hunter, Ollie
Willing to Pay: Butler, Williams, Spurs 1st/rights to Scola for Hunter, Ollie, Philly 2nd.

The Hornets pulled a trade for Steven Hunter last season (two seconds for him straight up) and ended up halting the trade when he failed his physical. Hunter had major knee surgery a couple years ago and teams see him as problematic. A time bomb if you will.

ChumpDumper

01-24-2007, 10:44 AM

Scola is definitely worth more than Ollie+Hunter. Probably the best player in Europe?Don't we get the best center from Europe a couple of years ago?

Didn't Dallas get the best SG from Europe a couple of years ago?

Didn't Indiana get the best PG from Europe last year?

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 10:52 AM

Don't we get the best center from Europe a couple of years ago?

Didn't Dallas get the best SG from Europe a couple of years ago?

Didn't Indiana get the best PG from Europe last year?

Huh? What?

Who are you talking about? Vujacic? Anthony Parker? I THINK the last one is Jasikevicius, but can't be certain.

Cryptic, dude. Too cryptic. Not a lot of fun. 2 stars out of 5.

Bruno

01-24-2007, 10:55 AM

Huh? What?

Who are you talking about? Vujacic? Anthony Parker? I THINK the last one is Jasikevicius, but can't be certain.

Cryptic, dude. Too cryptic. Not a lot of fun. 2 stars out of 5.

Oberto, Rigaudeau and Jasikevicius.

cheguevara

01-24-2007, 10:55 AM

Beno and Williams for arroyo + picks

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 10:57 AM

Oberto, Rigaudeau and Jasikevicius.

Nah. I'd say Jasikevicius is the only one you were right on there. I suppose you'd pass on Rudy Fernandez or Ricky Rubio, too.

Bruno

01-24-2007, 11:04 AM

Nah. I'd say Jasikevicius is the only one you were right on there. I suppose you'd pass on Rudy Fernandez or Ricky Rubio, too.

ChumpDumper (correct me if I'm wrong) is just pointing that being the best player in europe doesn't translate for sure in being a good player in nba. After the failure of some "euro stars", being a great player in europe isn't enough to have a good trade value.

However, I think that Scola trade value is still quite high because he is still quite young and he cna be a good player in nba.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 11:19 AM

It's clear what Chump is trying to say, but putting Scola in the same lead-footed class as Jasikevicius and Oberto is begging the question and being unduly surly. Saras didn't work out not for lack of talent but because of athleticism. Does Scola have that problem? No.

pad300

01-24-2007, 12:18 PM

The Hornets pulled a trade for Steven Hunter last season (two seconds for him straight up) and ended up halting the trade when he failed his physical. Hunter had major knee surgery a couple years ago and teams see him as problematic. A time bomb if you will.

Regarding various comments made about Ollie and Hunter.

1) Ollie is close to done, yes, but he's not cooked yet. He's still better than Beno and a viable backup PG. Although he is slightly overpaid, he's a better value for the money than Finley, who's the same salary bill. I think everyone acknowledges we need to improve our back-up PG spot (either Beno plays better, or we get another guy).

2) Hunter is NOT overpaid. Look around the league at backup centers. He's reasonably productive, young (25 this year), and has physical characteristics that are currently valuable (fast tall guy). He's making 16.5 million over 5 years. This year, that's roughly 3.1 million this year (year 2), up to 3.75 in the final year (year 5) of his contract. That is not overpaid for a center with a PER of 13.7 this year. Centers are paid more than other players...Consider for example, Francisco Elson. Last season PER 10.7, current contract ~ 6 million over 2 years...

3) As far as Hunter's knees go, He tore his ACL in summer 02, and missed the 1st 38 games of the 02/03 regular season (active for 33 games that season). He's played 3 whole seasons (Orlando, 03/04 59 games, Pheonix, 04/05 76 games, Philly, 05/06 69 games) since, with no major problems. I think the Hornets decided that trade was a mistake and used the Knee as an excuse to get out of it...

Big P

01-24-2007, 12:21 PM

As I said before, Hunter & Ollie are not going to put us over the top, & they are definitly not worth throwing in Scolas rights as well.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 12:25 PM

I'd take Beno Udrih over Kevin Ollie at this stage of his career.

Steven Hunter's yearly cost isn't bad, but his contract runs for two years longer than the Spurs would like. It beats the 2008 Plan. He's not better than Francisco Elson, either, although he does block shots.

I certainly hope we don't waste either Barry or Scola on scrubs like these. Serviceable? Yes. Worth our best assets? Absolutely not.

Big P

01-24-2007, 12:31 PM

Since we were talking about being a third team in a Chicago/Memphis deal, I thought I would post this here:

link (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/226639,241SPT9.article)

According to a league source, the Bulls offered a package that includes guard Ben Gordon, forward P.J. Brown and a first round draft pick in return for Gasol, who has requested a trade. The source also said Brown would be included in any trade made before the deadline.

As it has been since the start of the season, an established inside scorer remains atop the Bulls' wish list.

"I don't know how many times I can say that I would like to have a guy like that," said Paxson, who did not mention Gasol by name. "But for the good of the organization and my responsibility to ownership, I can't give too much to get something. We're not in that position right now."

Paxson conceded it would be difficult to part with Gordon and forward Luol Deng in partciular at this time.

The emergence of Deng and Gordon as consistent scorers has been the most positive story line of the season thus far.

"They have more value today than when the season started," Paxson said. "Everybody in this league would love to have Lu Deng and Ben Gordon. I'm glad we have them."

rascal

01-24-2007, 12:37 PM

Carlos Arroyo had his second DNP in the last three Magic games and appears to be replaced by Travis Diener in the backup PG role. There's also news that the Magic are looking to move Fran Vasquez, their lottery pick from '05 that snubbed them and went to play in the Euroleague, and are looking for more shooting or a big. So here's two deals that could work:

1) Williams straight up for Arroyo

2) Barry for Arroyo + Rights to Fran Vasquez

What do you think?

I like both of these deals.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 12:37 PM

Strangely enough, with a Luol Deng-Ben Gordon for Pau Gasol trade... I think both teams lose out.

mountainballer

01-24-2007, 12:42 PM

Paxson conceded it would be difficult to part with Gordon and forward Luol Deng in partciular at this time.

The emergence of Deng and Gordon as consistent scorers has been the most positive story line of the season thus far.

"They have more value today than when the season started," Paxson said. "Everybody in this league would love to have Lu Deng and Ben Gordon. I'm glad we have them."

I guess it is the strategy of Paxons to get it to: either the Knicks pick, or a second youngstar. word is, the Grizzlies wanted both. (Gordon and Deng + the pick)

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 12:45 PM

Scola isn't worth jack to most teams, especially not playoff teams, right now because they won't see the immediate benefit for giving up what they've got.

The smartest thing to do would be to bring him over and let him establish his trade value over the next couple years, while starting at PF for the Spurs. But, I think his value in the off-season will be high enough that he could become a factor in trading up in the '07 draft if the Spurs HAD to make a move.

Oh and Chump....Oberto was a serviceable player in Europe and has said himself that he's nowhere near as talented as Scola.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 12:49 PM

But, I think his value in the off-season will be high enough that he could become a factor in trading up in the '07 draft.

I think, and hope, he'd be worth at least 10 spots in the draft, but we'll see. Below that? Bring him over ourselves.

Some good SF prospects, starter-quality (with time). Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Thaddeus Young.

Hoy

01-24-2007, 12:57 PM

Jasikevicius is a spot up shooter that didn't have the right system to operate in. He might be good in a spread out system like the Suns or in the Spurs/Heat type system where the double-team comes to the low-block and he's a spot shooter. :dizzy

This is complete opposite of what Jasikevicius complained about Indiana scheme where he was positioned to be a spot up 3 pointer shooter. Said he favors a ball in his hand, pick-n-roll creator role. Are you sure you got a right player?

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 12:58 PM

I think, and hope, he'd be worth at least 10 spots in the draft, but we'll see. Below that? Bring him over ourselves.

Some good SF prospects, starter-quality (with time). Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Thaddeus Young.

You mean Teyshaun Prince, Lamar Odom, and Al Harrington (comparison's courtesy of ESPN and NBADraft.net)? Yeah they'd be great...although the hope is that the Spurs could snag one of them w/o moving up.

If the Spurs could move up to get one though I completely agree with you that it'd be worth it.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 01:01 PM

Exactly. DX projects Brewer in the lottery, the others later. Young may not come out. Jeff Green... who knows... may be available. Problem is, in the early 20s guys who drop are usually snagged regardless of position, because those are teams that don't need much. If the Spurs are content with pick 28 or 29, they'll wind up with another flawed role player or a project. We need a starter.

But yes, I'd see them trade up with Scola only if "their guy" is available. By accounts they tried to do it last year, but failed, perhaps because Scola was too expensive. I don't know if that's changed. I also don't know if they were after Ronnie Brewer or Sefalosha or what.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 01:31 PM

I think the root of Scola's trade value issues are with how his game translates to this league. Athletically he's not a bum, and he's an incredibly smart low-post player, but other GMs who may not have watched him closely will have questions about this guy until he comes over here and proves the critics wrong.

That's pretty amazing since this guy has been so consistently dominant (16+ ppg and 5+ rpg for the past 4/5 seasons).

Edit: I honestly think this kid could come over here next year and start alongside Duncan immediately. I think he's more Nocioni/Ginobili than Macijauskas.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 01:42 PM

I think, and hope, he'd be worth at least 10 spots in the draft, but we'll see. Below that? Bring him over ourselves.

Some good SF prospects, starter-quality (with time). Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Thaddeus Young.

A way to move up a few spots w/o giving up Scola is to give up Butler in a trade. Even though the Spurs see him as a long-term project, other teams would play him right away...no doubt.

One mentioned earlier:

Williams + Butler to Magic for Arroyo + filler (Garrity, Redick) + rights to Vazquez with the final condition that they swap 1st rounders (28 to 20ish).... impossible?

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 03:07 PM

Williams for Arroyo. It's simple, low-key, and provides each with a benefit. Arroyo takes over as backup PG and the salary created by Williams expiring contract gives Orlando more of a chance to sign one of the following:

Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Gerald Wallace

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 03:25 PM

A way to move up a few spots w/o giving up Scola is to give up Butler in a trade. Even though the Spurs see him as a long-term project, other teams would play him right away...no doubt.

I don't see Butler worth that much, and not enough to move up spots. Plus, if we trade him during the draft, we'd have to take on equal salary, who then rides the roster the rest of the year (or is bought out). I don't see anybody equitable to that task. Trading Scola's rights is different because he's not been signed yet. Besides, he's a better player right now and probably in the future.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 03:30 PM

I don't see Butler worth that much, and not enough to move up spots. Plus, if we trade him during the draft, we'd have to take on equal salary, who then rides the roster the rest of the year (or is bought out). I don't see anybody equitable to that task. Trading Scola's rights is different because he's not been signed yet. Besides, he's a better player right now and probably in the future.

I was speaking more about trading Butler before the 22 Feb deadline and whoever gets him will be able to use him. Just because he rides the pine for the Spurs doesn't mean he would ride it for any other team. Jackie knows how to score and can do so in limited minutes.

EDIT: In the Orlando scenario, he provides the inside scoring they are looking for and hedges against Darko leaving as a restricted FA this off-season.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 03:34 PM

I don't think anyone would trade or want to swap draft picks so early in the year, with a draft this deep. And I honestly think you're overrating Butler, at least insofar as moving up in the draft.

timvp

01-24-2007, 03:40 PM

I don't see Butler worth that much, and not enough to move up spots. Plus, if we trade him during the draft, we'd have to take on equal salary, who then rides the roster the rest of the year (or is bought out). I don't see anybody equitable to that task. Trading Scola's rights is different because he's not been signed yet. Besides, he's a better player right now and probably in the future.

You seriously think Scola has more trade value than Butler? Scola is still under contract this summer and there's no guarantee he'd come in 2008 even if he's offered a fair deal. Look at Fran Vazquez.

Butler is a quality bigman prospect with a low salary on a short contract.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 03:41 PM

I don't think anyone would trade or want to swap draft picks so early in the year, with a draft this deep. And I honestly think you're overrating Butler, at least insofar as moving up in the draft.

Good point on swapping early, and I don't think I'm overrating Butler. This kid has a knack for scoring in the low post and getting rebounds. I chalk it up to "out of sight, out of mind" syndrome.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 03:47 PM

You seriously think Scola has more trade value than Butler? Scola is still under contract this summer and there's no guarantee he'd come in 2008 even if he's offered a fair deal. Look at Fran Vazquez.

Butler is a quality bigman prospect with a low salary on a short contract.

Agreed on Butler having more trade value than Scola, especially in the short term since he can actually play THIS year.

About Scola though, it was my impression that he wanted to come across the pond a couple years ago and was dissapointed when a buyout didn't materialize. You don't think he'd play for the Spurs, or any NBA team for that matter, if he was offered a 3yr, $10M deal?

timvp

01-24-2007, 03:54 PM

Agreed on Butler having more trade value than Scola, especially in the short term since he can actually play THIS year.

About Scola though, it was my impression that he wanted to come across the pond a couple years ago and was dissapointed when a buyout didn't materialize. You don't think he'd play for the Spurs, or any NBA team for that matter, if he was offered a 3yr, $10M deal?

Not if his buy-out remains $4-6M. Sounds like he wants Garbajosa money (3-year $12-14M) before he even figures out what the actual buy-out from his team will be.

A team trading for Scola would have to wait 16 months to see if it's possible to sign a 28-year-old short power forward to a contract equal to that of a high lottery pick. Don't expect to see many teams lining up.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 03:54 PM

You seriously think Scola has more trade value than Butler? Scola is still under contract this summer and there's no guarantee he'd come in 2008 even if he's offered a fair deal. Look at Fran Vazquez.

Butler is a quality bigman prospect with a low salary on a short contract.

In terms of swapping up in the first round, which was my point, yes, Scola has more value than Butler, because he's a better player and can contribute right away, other than the fact he doesn't require swapped salary.

You're still overrating Butler. He's looked like absolute caca so far this year. That doesn't tend to rub GM's prostrates like fingers of joy. He will obviously get to be better than that, but I'd say his value is close to nil at this point. He's filler.

timvp

01-24-2007, 04:00 PM

In terms of swapping up in the first round, which was my point, yes, Scola has more value than Butler, because he's a better player and can contribute right away, other than the fact he doesn't require swapped salary.
If by right away you mean perhaps the summer of 2008, then you might be on to something.

And Scola is the probably the better player right now, then again he's seven years older and looking for a contract twice as expensive as the one Butler got.

You're still overrating Butler. He's looked like absolute caca so far this year. That doesn't tend to rub GM's prostrates like fingers of joy. He will obviously get to be better than that, but I'd say his value is close to nil at this point. He's filler.

Ah yes, the 20 minutes he's played this season. I'm sure GMs will be looking to see how he played in his one minute garbage time stretches as opposed to what he did last year when he was given ample time.

It's amazing how you hyped up Javtokas and Butler in the offseason and now that they're in situations where they aren't playing many minutes, you've written them off. The truth is that both players are the same as they were six months ago.

Butler is the odd man out in a championship level NBA team. Javtokas is the odd man out in a championship level Greek team. That doesn't mean both of them are garbage.

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 04:06 PM

I didn't say Butler was garbage. I do, however, find it alarming what a dismal motor he has when he gets in games. I hope it's because he's thinking too much, but more he's looked like Ferdinand the Bull.

My point is Scola has value now and in the near future, and it's much more likely teams are interested in him. Buyout aside. Scola has much more potential as an NBA player than Butler does, even at seven years older. His age may even be attractive to some teams who are making a run now. If I were a Chicago, I'd much rather have Scola than Butler.

stéphane

01-24-2007, 04:10 PM

mmm what about gelabale + watson for beno + fin ?
decent pg + promising 2/3 for what we try to throw away :p

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 04:13 PM

You're still overrating Butler. He's looked like absolute caca so far this year. That doesn't tend to rub GM's prostrates like fingers of joy. He will obviously get to be better than that, but I'd say his value is close to nil at this point. He's filler.

If you lost 30 pounds of mass that helped you establish position in the low-post for scoring and rebounding, then were given 2 garbage minutes in 5 total games....how would I rate you?

The point is that JB is still trying to adjust and no one can make a judgement on how good he is based on this years production...or lack thereof

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 04:27 PM

If by right away you mean perhaps the summer of 2008, then you might be on to something.

And Scola is the probably the better player right now, then again he's seven years older and looking for a contract twice as expensive as the one Butler got.

You're cleverly devaluating Scola with assumptions and words like "short" and "28"

He may be undersized and he may be older than your typical rookie (26 until Apr 30), but he has talent and he aint that old. Still, I agree with you that his buyout and potential salary is an issue for those who trade for him.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 04:35 PM

mmm what about gelabale + watson for beno + fin ?
decent pg + promising 2/3 for what we try to throw away :p

The Watson trade idea has been discussed....

Bottom Line: Too much salary + too many years for a 12mpg guy.

Bruno

01-24-2007, 05:45 PM

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2007/01/unhappy_arroyo_.html

Unhappy Arroyo: I don't want to go anywhere else
Posted on Jan 24, 2007 11:27:35 AM

Magic point guard Carlos Arroyo is not a happy camper, but he says he has no plans to ask for a trade. For the time being, he has lost his job to Travis Diener as the backup point guard to Jameer Nelson.

"I'm not thinking like that," Arroyo told me after the Magic lost to the Dallas Mavericks Tuesday night.

"I want to stay here. My feelings are the same as when I got here. I want to help this team win, and I love the support from the Puerto Rican community."

Arroyo discounted a rumor that he had gone on a local radio or TV station and asked the Magic to trade him. Asked if he has suggested to the franchise that the Magic trade him, Arroyo said, "I've never been like that."

Make no mistake: Arroyo is not happy -- a total reversal of fortune since he was traded to the Magic by the Detroit Pistons last season. He played well, became a fan favorite with his Hispanic ties and helped the Magic finish the season with a 16-6 kick.

But a shooting slump and some indecisive play led Coach Brian Hill to bench him as Nelson's backup, and he has not played in three of the past four games.

"I feel like I'm being punished for a bad shooting streak," Arroyo said. "I've never been punished for that. I feel like I've done everything they've asked me to do."

Arroyo, who has played with five teams in his six NBA seasons, has met with Hill several times. "It's his decision," Arroyo said.

AFBlue

01-24-2007, 05:48 PM

Mr. Body

01-24-2007, 05:52 PM

Arroyo, who has played with five teams in his six NBA seasons

Clarions go off.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 12:18 PM

Arroyo, who has played with five teams in his six NBA seasons, has met with Hill several times. "It's his decision," Arroyo said.

Didn't Chauncey Billups play for several teams before he settled into the right situation?

By all means, I'm not comparing Arroyo to Billups, just making the correlation that being moved around does not necessarily have to do with a person's character or overall worth.

I think he's in a situation again where his worth is not being adequately judged because there are three other options. He could be very good as the Spurs backup, and though he may be somewhat expensive ($4M), his contract length is only for this year and the next.

I figure he's the Spurs' best available option because he could be had for relatively nothing - cap space.

rascal

01-25-2007, 12:40 PM

2centsworth

01-25-2007, 12:50 PM

The trade the spurs need to make is Beno and Finley to the Clippers for Sam Cassell.

Sam will give the spurs a great mid range jumpshot and add some huevos to the lineup.

johnpaulwall21

01-25-2007, 01:00 PM

it seems like gollum has been in the league for a long time, i wonder how many years does he have left.

Mr. Body

01-25-2007, 01:02 PM

Cassell makes LA hum. They win when he plays well. I can't see them giving him up so easily, if at all.

johnpaulwall21

01-25-2007, 01:05 PM

yeah i agree he aint goin no where

telecomguy

01-25-2007, 01:29 PM

Cassell makes LA hum. They win when he plays well. I can't see them giving him up so easily, if at all.

Cassells would be great. He is a winner and his jump shot is VERY consistent and clutch. He also can pass and create openings....very smart player. Basically a slower, less flashier version of Nash.

We basically need a Dirk stopper (Najera for eg.) and a smart true Point Guard who can hit jumpers consistently to go all the way in my opinion.

Bonzi Wells is also a very good addition potentially....the guy has everything Spurs need -- small PF, good jumper, good post player, and can defend when he is motivated....however Gumby may not let him go to Spurs even if he doesn't like him as he knows that Spurs would really benefit by getting Wells...and Houston may meet Spurs in the playoffs so that would be a really stupid move on Houston's part to trade him and strengthen Spurs immeasurably. Some people worry about his attitude but I figure the guy is a competitor and he is playing for a big contract...and once he is in the playoffs, he will hustle his bag off to win the ring in my opinion.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 02:10 PM

Agree with Phat tony. Arroyo would be a better backup than Beno. He may be had on the cheap now. What would Orlando want from the spurs?

Put Arroyo in a good situation where he gains some confidence and he will do well. He had many good games with Utah when he was a starter.

He's currently the lowest on the totem pole for minutes among guards...and it's a long list. The Vinsanity rumors to Orlando after he opts out are persistent and the Magic would love an extra $4M in cap space to facilitate that coming true. Based on his current value, I'd say Williams' expiring contract and one of the three possible 2nd rounders should do it.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 02:23 PM

Cassells would be great. He is a winner and his jump shot is VERY consistent and clutch. He also can pass and create openings....very smart player. Basically a slower, less flashier version of Nash.

We basically need a Dirk stopper (Najera for eg.) and a smart true Point Guard who can hit jumpers consistently to go all the way in my opinion.

Bonzi Wells is also a very good addition potentially....the guy has everything Spurs need -- small PF, good jumper, good post player, and can defend when he is motivated....however Gumby may not let him go to Spurs even if he doesn't like him as he knows that Spurs would really benefit by getting Wells...and Houston may meet Spurs in the playoffs so that would be a really stupid move on Houston's part to trade him and strengthen Spurs immeasurably. Some people worry about his attitude but I figure the guy is a competitor and he is playing for a big contract...and once he is in the playoffs, he will hustle his bag off to win the ring in my opinion.

Good ideas, but not very reasonable given what the Spurs have to trade with. You're right to doubt Wells being traded to a contender if Houston is still in the convo. The same goes for the newly rejuvinated Nuggets giving up an asset to a contender when they think they can be in the race.

The other peeps are right about Cassell, even though he doesn't start anymore, being a key player on that team (a la Duhon w/ the Bulls).

Stipulation: Clips may go into salary dump mode if they think they're out of it and if they can get something in return (pick/prospect).

Bottom Line: Not saying all of the trades are impossible, but that the Spurs only have enough assets to rectify one, maybe two if they're lucky, of their problems with what they've got.

Mr. Body

01-25-2007, 02:51 PM

Carlos Arroyo would be intriguing. A decent risk, some reward, stands up to the 2008 Plan. Wonder if they'd be packaging Udrih out the other door at the same time. Probably.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 03:07 PM

Carlos Arroyo would be intriguing. A decent risk, some reward, stands up to the 2008 Plan. Wonder if they'd be packaging Udrih out the other door at the same time. Probably.

It's possible. Didn't the 76ers have interest in him at one point? I'm sure we could pawn Udrih off on them for a 2nd rounder and a guy like Shavlik Randolph or Alan Henderson....maybe a straight-up trade for a guy like Louis Williams.

EDIT: It certainly wouldn't be to the Magic, since they have a glut of PGs already...

Kori Ellis

01-25-2007, 03:08 PM

It's possible. Didn't the 76ers have interest in him at one point? I'm sure we could pawn Udrih off on them for a 2nd rounder and a guy like Shavlik Randolph or Alan Henderson....maybe a straight-up trade for a guy like Louis Williams.

No they didn't. It was a misreport.

The Philly paper actually went to the trouble of re-tracting it the next day, saying the Sixers didn't have an interest. :lol

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 03:11 PM

No they didn't. It was a misreport.

The Philly paper actually went to the trouble of re-tracting it the next day, saying the Sixers didn't have an interest. :lol

:lol Whoops...well I guess anytime I saw "interest in Beno" I should've assumed it was false. The point is though, that he could probably get a future pick, expiring contract, and/or 12th man type.

mardigan

01-25-2007, 03:12 PM

Beno for Atkins, straight up

mardigan

01-25-2007, 03:14 PM

Carlos Arroyo would be intriguing. A decent risk, some reward, stands up to the 2008 Plan. Wonder if they'd be packaging Udrih out the other door at the same time. Probably.
I think Orlando is pretty happy with Arroyo, I saw a piece on him on NBA Inside stuff last week and they were talking him up quite a bit. He would be a great option, but Im not sure if we could package Beno with enough to get him. Bring back Hedo

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 03:43 PM

I think Orlando is pretty happy with Arroyo, I saw a piece on him on NBA Inside stuff last week and they were talking him up quite a bit. He would be a great option, but Im not sure if we could package Beno with enough to get him. Bring back Hedo

Well he's racking up DNPs of late and there are stories about how he's unhappy with the current situation, though he hasn't made a trade request (probably his love of the community - large puerto rican population in central/south florida). He's also costing them $4M to not play. Not saying they're displeased, but they've got a glut of PG and if someone goes...it's probably him.

2centsworth

01-25-2007, 03:49 PM

Stipulation: Clips may go into salary dump mode if they think they're out of it and if they can get something in return (pick/prospect).

that's why I think Cassell is possible. Sterling will begin to dump salaries very soon.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 04:09 PM

that's why I think Cassell is possible. Sterling will begin to dump salaries very soon.

But what pick/prospect would the Clips want in return and what would the Spurs be willing to give? Just skeptically curious....

mardigan

01-25-2007, 04:15 PM

And would Cassel want to come off the bench? I doubt it

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 04:28 PM

And would Cassel want to come off the bench? I doubt it

Tough to say...I don't think he liked it much when he came off the bench for Livingston earlier in the year, but the Spurs are a championship contender and Tony is an all-star, so the situation would be different.

2centsworth

01-25-2007, 04:31 PM

But what pick/prospect would the Clips want in return and what would the Spurs be willing to give? Just skeptically curious....
they would want to dump salary more than a pick. Cassell is not worth a #1 or any real hot prospect. Beno would have to do.

2centsworth

01-25-2007, 04:32 PM

And would Cassel want to come off the bench? I doubt it
Heard an interview with Cassell on the Jim Rome show. Sam said he wants to play in the league another 2-4 years because he knows he would be a great backup point guard for a contending team.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 04:36 PM

they would want to dump salary more than a pick. Cassell is not worth a #1 or any real hot prospect. Beno would have to do.

Williams' expiring contract + Beno for Cassell....

I'd do that in a heartbeat! I just have a hard time believing the Clips would, but the further they slip the more possible it becomes.

Bruno

01-25-2007, 04:40 PM

Clippers are back in the playoff race, I doubt they will trade Cassell.

bdictjames

01-25-2007, 04:42 PM

Livingston is overrated.

mavs>spurs2

01-25-2007, 04:46 PM

We will never get Rashard Lewis, Allen, Carter and Kidd.
I would like to se S-Jax in the team one again - so I'll say Barry and Beno for S-JAx.
Then next year we could get Ely.
Pietrus and Ellis would be great for the Spurs. Finley fo Pietrus. I don't know who should we trade for Ellis.
If that doesn't work lets trade Barry and Beno the sucker for Maggette.

Why would the warriors take finley for pietrus? :dizzy

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 05:24 PM

Livingston is overrated.

Agreed.

There's a point when a tall PG becomes too tall and a "pass-first" PG becomes a "can't shoot" PG. You think you're getting Jason Kidd and instead you get Shaun Livingston, a 6'7 rail thin PG that isn't quick enough to guard other PGs but doesn't shoot well enough to be a SG. He's a tweener and not in a good way.

rascal

01-25-2007, 07:16 PM

Tough to say...I don't think he liked it much when he came off the bench for Livingston earlier in the year, but the Spurs are a championship contender and Tony is an all-star, so the situation would be different.
Exactly Cassel may not want to come off the bench. Arroyo will just be happy to get out of Orlando and on a good team and into a solid rotation. Coming off the bench won't be a problem for him.

AFBlue

01-25-2007, 08:47 PM

Williams + Butler for Arroyo + Garrity + rights to Fran Vazquez (or swap of 1st rd picks)

mardigan

01-26-2007, 12:50 PM

Atkins for Beno, or Williams+ pick for Ariza, either or would work for me

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 01:12 PM

Atkins for Beno, or Williams+ pick for Ariza, either or would work for me

Magic list of untouchables:

Howard
Nelson
Ariza
Redick

mardigan

01-26-2007, 01:15 PM

Why the hell would Ariza be on that list. In that case bring back Hedo, he is still on the Magic right?

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 01:19 PM

Why the hell would Ariza be on that list. In that case bring back Hedo, he is still on the Magic right?

Ariza is young, talented, and cheap. They are really in love with his work ethic and scrappy play.

About Hedo, yeah he's still there and making about $7M a season for the next few. I think he could be had, but it would be a steep price because he starts for them, plays significant minutes, and is a primary offensive weapon.

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 01:22 PM

Why the hell would Ariza be on that list. In that case bring back Hedo, he is still on the Magic right?

The surprising one for me on that list is Redick. I know he was the #11 pick in the draft, but he was injured to start the season and has been in Hill's doghouse since then. The other day he came off the bench to score 15pts or so, but I think he followed that effort up with two DNPs. You'd think he'd be available....but no.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 01:24 PM

I think Jeff Foster would be great here as well, and it probably wouldnt cost to much to bring him over

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 01:34 PM

I think Jeff Foster would be great here as well, and it probably wouldnt cost to much to bring him over

I think they're short on shooters, so:

Barry for Foster + Armstrong

Waive Vaughn

Solves backup PG and rebounder, but loads up frontcourt and leaves hole at backup SG.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 01:37 PM

ANd sg is already kind of weak, so hmmm.....Williams + pick for a Jarvis Hayes type player?

cdcast

01-26-2007, 01:50 PM

PGs available:
1. Atkins
2. Arroyo
3. Watson (big contract- 3 yrs. left after this one)
4. Dixon (Blazers)

Possible SF targets:
1. Barnes- FA this summer
2. Warrick
3. T. Outlaw (Blazers)

PF/C available:
1. Petro (Seattle)
2. Smith and Hunter (Sixers)

trade with Seattle:
Watson and Petro for EWill, Butler OR Oberto
Sonics get rid of Watson's contract and Eill and Oberto have expiring contracts.

trade with Memphis:
Atkins and Warrick for EWill, Scola's rights, Udrih, and future draft pick
Would Griz give up young cheap player like Warren? Probably not.

trade with Blazers:
Dixon and Outlaw for EWill, Scola's rights, and future #1 pick
Same with Outlaw, he's good and cheap. Tough to get him.

trade with Sixers:
Hunter for Butler and Udrih
Sixers get rid of Hunter's contract (has 3 yrs., $10.5 mil left after this season)

The Great Fantastic

01-26-2007, 01:57 PM

I'd like to trade 60% of the posters on this board for the members of Heaven's Gate. They seemed to be more down to earth.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 01:59 PM

I'd like to trade 60% of the posters on this board for the members of Heaven's Gate. They seemed to be more down to earth.
Who the fuck are you? Just words man, they dont hurt anybody

VaSpursFan

01-26-2007, 01:59 PM

i'd be surprised if barnes leaves GS. Nellie loves that guy and said as much in a recent article.

Kori Ellis

01-26-2007, 01:59 PM

Who the fuck are you? Just words man, they dont hurt anybody

Not necessary.

Get back to business.

The Great Fantastic

01-26-2007, 01:59 PM

None of the above posts really sparked this one. This is just something I thought some of you might agree with.

Kori Ellis

01-26-2007, 02:00 PM

i'd be surprised if barnes leaves GS. Nellie loves that guy and said as much in a recent article.

Well I think they'll move one of the swing guys. I can't see them hold onto five of them. But now, that SJax violated probation and might be facing jail time, that probably changes things up there. :lol

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:04 PM

Not necessary.

Get back to business.
Ive been all business, just didnt like the Heavens Gate remark, that didnt sound like business to me. I like the Beno + Williams for Foster and Armstrong idea, gives us a rebounding big and a backup point who can play d, although he is older than Kevin Willis

VaSpursFan

01-26-2007, 02:05 PM

Well I think they'll move one of the swing guys. I can't see them hold onto five of them. But now, that SJax violated probation and might be facing jail time, that probably changes things up there. :lol

part of me believes that Jax and Pietrus are the odd men out.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:07 PM

I dont think Golden State would want to get rid of Pietrus, he is so young and talented, but what is his contract situation like?

VaSpursFan

01-26-2007, 02:10 PM

I dont think Golden State would want to get rid of Pietrus, he is so young and talented, but what is his contract situation like?
don't know his contract situation but barnes = pietrus but at a much lower price.

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 02:11 PM

part of me believes that Jax and Pietrus are the odd men out.

Pietrus looked to be the odd man out before Nellie took over. But he's been fairly consistent of late and Nellie has been really impressed with him. He starts for that team.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:11 PM

Barnes would be huge, but would Beno + pick, or Scola rights or Williams be enough?

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 02:12 PM

I dont think Golden State would want to get rid of Pietrus, he is so young and talented, but what is his contract situation like?

Pietrus will be a restricted FA after this year, but with the outrageous contracts that Mullin likes to award and Jackson's previously mentioned legal issues (thanks Kori), I'm pretty sure he's a safe bet to stay on with GS.

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 02:22 PM

ANd sg is already kind of weak, so hmmm.....Williams + pick for a Jarvis Hayes type player?

Washington has a Center combo that was involved in a fight earlier in the season and both are signed to long-term deals. And Hayes has been injury prone and generally underachieved.

Barry + Beno for Haywood + Hayes might work....

Going the extra mile (thereby making it less reasonable...sorry):

Barry + Williams + Beno for Haywood + Daniels + Hayes

Mr. Body

01-26-2007, 02:24 PM

Jeezy creezy. Just keep Barry if you're going to throw him away like that. Might as well keep Udrih, too.

Kori Ellis

01-26-2007, 02:24 PM

Washington has a Center combo that was involved in a fight earlier in the season and both are signed to long-term deals. And Hayes has been injury prone and generally underachieved.

Barry + Beno for Haywood + Hayes might work....

Going the extra mile (thereby making it less reasonable...sorry):

Barry + Williams + Beno for Haywood + Daniels + Hayes

What do you guys think of Haywood?

Elson/Oberto upgrade?

How much would you play here if you are keeping both Elson/Obero?

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:24 PM

Bringing Antonio back would be the shiit, we could watch him do his one dunk he does over and over and over......
And bringing in Haywood would give us a stockpile of bigs, meaning we could trade one of them for another player if need be

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:25 PM

What do you guys think of Haywood?

Elson/Oberto upgrade?

How much would you play here if you are keeping both Elson/Obero?
Well Haywood would at least give us a shotblocker, thats one thing he has always been able to do. Then we could get rid of one of the other centers for someone else we need

Mr. Body

01-26-2007, 02:27 PM

Washington fans have long nicknamed him 'Brenda' Haywood, so you know how they feel about them. On the other hand, ready-made nickname!

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:30 PM

Did he punch Etan Thomas or did Thomas punch him?

Kermit

01-26-2007, 02:31 PM

brenda? if washington fans think you're soft, you're in trouble.

from an article in the wasthington post...

"Thomas felt that Miller's comments were a slight toward him, he approached Haywood and threw the first punch once the argument escalated, a source said. According to the source, Haywood responded to the punch by body-slamming Thomas to the ground, tearing out at least two of Thomas's dreadlocks in the process. The two players were separated by teammates and the altercation ended."

mardigan

01-26-2007, 02:35 PM

Sounds like Brendas got heart, bring him in! Ripping out dreadlocks take some strength

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 02:37 PM

What do you guys think of Haywood?

Elson/Oberto upgrade?

How much would you play here if you are keeping both Elson/Obero?

He's an upgrade and so is Foster. But the fundamental problem is that the Spurs' other Bigs have no trade value. Elson hasn't been on the court enough to prove he's more than a third-string center, and no one in the league is aware of what Oberto can bring to a team (offensive awareness, passing).... so I think the Spurs are stuck with both. It's not a horrible thing, but it's a reason why I think the Spurs should focus on other problem areas to correct.

Kermit

01-26-2007, 02:42 PM

He's an upgrade and so is Foster. But the fundamental problem is that the Spurs' other Bigs have no trade value. Elson hasn't been on the court enough to prove he's more than a third-string center, and no one in the league is aware of what Oberto can bring to a team (offensive awareness, passing).... so I think the Spurs are stuck with both. It's not a horrible thing, but it's a reason why I think the Spurs should focus on other problem areas to correct.

the sad thing about this is that it seems no one on the spurs has much trade value, other than the triplets. and since the front office will probably never trade or even discuss a trade for one of those three, we're stuck with the team we have until the off-season. if the front office can make a useful trade out of the players we have, they'll have earned that "best executive's in the league" status everyone seems to heap on them.

Big P

01-26-2007, 03:32 PM

For what Haywood brings, IMO he is not worth about $6 mil per for the next 3 years.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 03:47 PM

For what Haywood brings, IMO he is not worth about $6 mil per for the next 3 years.
I had no idea he was making that much money

timvp

01-26-2007, 04:18 PM

Chris Duhon has gotten a couple DNP-CD's lately. If the Bulls are interested in Luis Scola, perhaps the Spurs can work out some sort of deal.

:smokin

GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI

01-26-2007, 04:23 PM

I think someone like Marquis Daniels would be a good fill in for the position, plus he knows the Mavs system

nkdlunch

01-26-2007, 04:24 PM

What do you guys think of Haywood?

Elson/Oberto upgrade?

How much would you play here if you are keeping both Elson/Obero?

Yes definitely upgrade on Elson/Oberto. he would fit so good next to Duncan. unfortunately I'm sure the Wiz would make this trade if we offer Elson + maybe barry. BTW, this season Haywood has had his problems w/teammates and coach, maybe this helps.

also I definitely think Spurs should try to bring Daniels back somehow. he is very good as a backup PG.

a possibility:
Beno + Barry + Elson for Haywood + Daniels.

Maybe Spurs could get away w/out offering Barry, instead someone else?

mardigan

01-26-2007, 04:26 PM

Those Wiz trade ideas are good ones, as is the Duhon idea, but we aint gettin Marquis Daniels

GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI

01-26-2007, 04:31 PM

Those Wiz trade ideas are good ones, as is the Duhon idea, but we aint gettin Marquis Daniels

Why not? Pacers have Dunleavy, Diogu, Granger and Rawle Marshall. Who can all play the 3

mardigan

01-26-2007, 04:33 PM

I just dont see what the Pacers would want from us, except maybe Barry but I dont know if thats enough

GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI

01-26-2007, 04:35 PM

I just dont see what the Pacers would want from us, except maybe Barry but I dont know if thats enough

I agree with that, but we don't have alot that anyone would want

mardigan

01-26-2007, 04:36 PM

True, its sad when are most tradable player is in Argentina playing ball, or wherever Scola plays

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 04:38 PM

For what Haywood brings, IMO he is not worth about $6 mil per for the next 3 years.

I thought it was more like $4M? Oh well, either way I'd place the importance of the "other" big alongside Duncan below long 3 (a.k.a. small-ball 4) and backup PG.

SAtown

01-26-2007, 04:39 PM

OK, officially Pop says no trade via Ticket 760. This is the team we will have for the playoffs. If this is old news, sorry.

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 04:40 PM

the sad thing about this is that it seems no one on the spurs has much trade value, other than the triplets. and since the front office will probably never trade or even discuss a trade for one of those three, we're stuck with the team we have until the off-season. if the front office can make a useful trade out of the players we have, they'll have earned that "best executive's in the league" status everyone seems to heap on them.

Agreed for the most part. That's why I started the "If no trade is made, then..." thread because it's very realistic that nothing gets done.

It's not that I think the Spurs can't trade, it's just that I don't think any of their assets outside of the big 3 (Barry, Williams' expiring contract) could bring in a measurably better player, and I think the Spurs FO feels the same.

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 04:42 PM

I think someone like Marquis Daniels would be a good fill in for the position, plus he knows the Mavs system

Marquis has a big contract that he got playing over his head for a season with the Mavs. It's not that he's not good, but I doubt he's good enough to justify what the Spurs would give up to get him here and pay him.

Bruno

01-26-2007, 04:47 PM

I'm not a big Haywood fan, he is a better center than Oberto/Elson but he has a big contract and will be useless against Mavs like Nazr was. If Spurs are ready to take a player with a contract like that, I rather go after a SF/PF.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 04:50 PM

I agree, he can block shots, but would not match up well with Suns/Mavs, plus he has horrible hands and like you said makes like 7 mill a year, I would rather bring in Jeff Foster

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 04:50 PM

True, its sad when are most tradable player is in Argentina playing ball, or wherever Scola plays

He's really not the most tradeable player....he's just the most talked about trade asset outside of Barry. What makes him not-so-tradeable is the fact that he brings NO help to a team immediately and that whomever trades for him will still have to pay his buyout with Tau (in Spain, not Argentina) and negotiate an initial contract (3yr $10-15M). That would net them a Euroleague superstar, but one that hasn't played more than a handful of games (world championships, olympics) against the type of "athletes" he'd be facing night in and night out.

EDIT: I'm sure a team would much rather the Spurs do all that initial leg work, see how he pans out in the NBA, then make a bid for him...

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 04:52 PM

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 04:54 PM

I agree, he can block shots, but would not match up well with Suns/Mavs, plus he has horrible hands and like you said makes like 7 mill a year, I would rather bring in Jeff Foster

Who also makes $7M over the next two....

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but I think the Spurs would be hard pressed to do it.

Bruno

01-26-2007, 04:56 PM

Who you got in mind?

I don't have a specific name in mind. Maybe SAR.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 04:58 PM

Who also makes $7M over the next two....

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but I think the Spurs would be hard pressed to do it.
7 mill over the next two isnt too bad for a guy that can produce like Foster

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 05:03 PM

I don't have a specific name in mind. Maybe SAR.

oooh I like...

They'd probably want a front court replacement or two. How much does he make?

Elson + Butler do the trick? Or would it take Williams as well?

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 05:05 PM

7 mill over the next two isnt too bad for a guy that can produce like Foster

Produce a ton of rebounds and solid D, but he's an offensive liability.

Kermit

01-26-2007, 05:06 PM

foster makes $11.9 million over the next two years. he has a player option worth $6 mil in 07/08.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:08 PM

Godamn Kermit keeps blowing up my ideas!

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 05:15 PM

foster makes $11.9 million over the next two years. he has a player option worth $6 mil in 07/08.

Yeah sorry Mardigan...

I meant $7M PER YEAR over the next two...my bad

Kermit

01-26-2007, 05:16 PM

sorry bro. i'm a little quick today. i've ingested about 3 cans of red bull.

cheguevara

01-26-2007, 05:17 PM

sorry bro. i'm a little quick today. i've ingested about 3 cans of red bull.

wow miss piggy coming over tonight huh?

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:17 PM

Not complaining, appreciate any and all knowledge brought to the table

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:17 PM

wow miss piggy coming over tonight huh?
He would need an 8 ball and a handle of whiskey for that

Kermit

01-26-2007, 05:18 PM

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:20 PM

Thats what I like to call Duke money

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 05:20 PM

i was just looking at dunleavy jr.'s salary and i'm thinking that that is about the worst salary i've ever seen. they're paying $37 million to that stiff over the next four years. at least the spurs haven't made that kind of a blunder.

That after receiving TONS of criticism for giving Stiff of the Century, a.k.a. Adonal Foyle, almost $10M a year.

Kermit

01-26-2007, 05:22 PM

He would need an 8 ball and a handle of whiskey for that

it's viagra and a sleeping pill. that usually does the trick. that way i don't remember it. :jack

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:22 PM

Chris Mullin sucks at his job worse than Matt Millen

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:23 PM

The old rufie colada, oldest trick in the book

Kermit

01-26-2007, 05:27 PM

mike finley must consider himself the luckiest man alive. he's getting $20 million to suck it up this year, and $21.7 to suck it up next year. $41 million for one of the worst subs in the league! my god! how the fuck did he get that contract from the mavericks? i know this is old news to most but jesus christ!!! that blows my mind.

mardigan

01-26-2007, 05:34 PM

He got that contract, then fell off faster than any player since Beno, he must have gone to Duke too

AFBlue

01-26-2007, 06:42 PM

He got that contract, then fell off faster than any player since Beno, he must have gone to Duke too

Dunno if he's #1 on the list of most unfulfilled contracts in league history...that might belong to Allan Houston.

Grant Hill was in the running before his decent rebound this year.

x_roux_x

01-28-2007, 05:02 AM

i know u guys want kenny thomas and ron artest :)

Well we know U will need them both so u can keep them. Not that it will matter.

mountainballer

01-28-2007, 11:31 AM

brenda? if washington fans think you're soft, you're in trouble.

remember the Antonio Davis fight?
[link removed]
(best to watch from 0:42)
yes, Davis isn't a small guy at 6-9, but if you are a 7 foot 270 guy like Haywood and you throw a punch first at someone who doesn't expect it and then backpedale in abject horror, you really deserve being nicknamed "Brenda".

mountainballer

01-28-2007, 12:23 PM

Popovich did leave himself some wiggle room, but not much.

"We might throw a peripheral player for a (draft pick) or trade a peripheral player for a peripheral player, but we're not going to trade our top 10, 11, 12 guys," Popovich said. "Nothing of significance. In other words, the top six, seven, eight, nine players aren't going anywhere. That's what I mean by no trade."

well, whatever this means, the top 9 players, or top 12 players, in what category: in minutes? points? years of age?
however. the irony is, that the lower ranked players are the more valuable assets for a trade anyhow (when excluding the big 3 in any trade proposaly).
if we talk in minutes per game, the group ouside the top 12 is:
Williams, Butler, White. + picks, + rights
it might in fact be easier to work out a trade with this assets: Williams expiring contract for the numbers, Butler was a disappointment for the Spurs, but other teams might still belive in his potential. White is most unlikely IMO, but if he is the one asset that makes the other team agree on a usefull trade, just do it.

I'm still hoping, that Gerald Wallace is one of the targets. (even if he isn't mentioned in trade rumors, or rumored to be on the market)
he has this opt-out clause this summer and I really don't think the Bobcats will try to hard to resign him (for the same or even a higher price).
and I don't think that Wallace wants to remain with the Bobcats, when his role was reduced when they aquired Morrison and will dwindle even more, when Morrison improves.
furthermore it is not out of any chance, that this year Durant or Brendan Wright or Julien Wright falls to the Bobcats, one more factor that would cut into Wallace's minutes.

Bobcats will try to get something in return for Wallace. considering the fact that he can opt-out this summer, they would have to trade him before the deadline.
Bobcats will be looking for picks and/or cheap young players. they will also probably have to repleace players of their big men rotaion (Brezec and Voskuhl can opt-out, Ely will be a FA)
so Butler could be interesting for them.
they were quite successfull in taking players, who didn't get any minutes with other teams (see Brezec, see Wallace), so they might not hesitate to gamble on a player like Butler.

so: I would offer them Williams+Butler for Gerald Wallace and add teasers, whatever they ask. (1st rounder, as well second rounders, as well as Scola rights)
Wallace would be worth the price, considering the current needs.

Marcus Bryant

01-28-2007, 12:37 PM

So now the Spurs find themselves in the position of trying to improve the supporting cast with expiring contracts, future draft picks, and the perhaps the rights to previous draft picks who are currently playing abroad.

Expiring contracts only have value if you are willing to take back a contract with one or more years remaining on the contracts of the players you would receive past those of the players you give up. Since the Spurs are unwilling to take on deals that extend past next season, this significantly limits the opportunities they have to improve by moving an Eric Williams, Oberto, Finley, Barry, etc...

Giving up future draft picks isn't a good idea, since they are your primary source for cheap young talent. If you are going to limit good basketball moves because of financial concerns, why force your front office into giving up the one source that they have shown they know how to do the most with? Your starting backcourt is a testament to that. San Antonio is not a hot free agent destination for players still in their prime and trying to make their mark on the league. The current CBA makes gives an edge to teams in retaining the players they drafted.

As for the international players whose rights are held by the Spurs, you have to trust your scouts to know who you should make available and who you should not. Again, this is a source for cheap talent and talent who is pretty much at the team's mercy if it wants to play NBA basketball.

So pretty much the Spurs have put themselves in a box when it comes to improving what they put out on the floor thanks to ownership's stupidity. At most we will see a marginal move, likely motivated by fear of the Lux Tax Monster this February. The team will be lucky if it only gives up one pick. That pick will be another young talent the Spurs could have added to their system to replenish the supporting cast, much like the two they gave up to rent Stone Hands.

Reasonable trade idea? There is no such thing.

GO SPURS GO!

MannyIsGod

01-28-2007, 01:02 PM

I don't believe Williams can bring in a player with a bad contract that gives this team a better chance to win a title.

Marcus you've gotten to the point that GW was always at with his "ballas". You want a deal for the sake of a deal.

Marcus Bryant

01-28-2007, 01:05 PM

I don't believe Williams can bring in a player with a bad contract that gives this team a better chance to win a title.

Then how about Barry, Bonner, Finley, Udrih, etc...? If they were willing to take back a deal they could find some options.

Marcus you've gotten to the point that GW was always at with his "ballas". You want a deal for the sake of a deal.

...better than being in DizzG mode with the problems this team has.

MannyIsGod

01-28-2007, 01:15 PM

I recognize the problems, but I also recognize we have tradeable assets. I'm not looking for them to trade for Adonal Foyle just to prove they can take on a bad contract. You're looking for them to make a trade for any marginal player out there with a bad contract just to prove they're willing to spend money. Nevermind that there aren't any players out there that are going to put this team over the top.

Big P

01-28-2007, 01:17 PM

well, whatever this means, the top 9 players, or top 12 players, in what category: in minutes? points? years of age?
however. the irony is, that the lower ranked players are the more valuable assets for a trade anyhow (when excluding the big 3 in any trade proposaly).
if we talk in minutes per game, the group ouside the top 12 is:
Williams, Butler, White. + picks, + rights
it might in fact be easier to work out a trade with this assets: Williams expiring contract for the numbers, Butler was a disappointment for the Spurs, but other teams might still belive in his potential. White is most unlikely IMO, but if he is the one asset that makes the other team agree on a usefull trade, just do it.

I'm still hoping, that Gerald Wallace is one of the targets. (even if he isn't mentioned in trade rumors, or rumored to be on the market)
he has this opt-out clause this summer and I really don't think the Bobcats will try to hard to resign him (for the same or even a higher price).
and I don't think that Wallace wants to remain with the Bobcats, when his role was reduced when they aquired Morrison and will dwindle even more, when Morrison improves.
furthermore it is not out of any chance, that this year Durant or Brendan Wright or Julien Wright falls to the Bobcats, one more factor that would cut into Wallace's minutes.

Bobcats will try to get something in return for Wallace. considering the fact that he can opt-out this summer, they would have to trade him before the deadline.
Bobcats will be looking for picks and/or cheap young players. they will also probably have to repleace players of their big men rotaion (Brezec and Voskuhl can opt-out, Ely will be a FA)
so Butler could be interesting for them.
they were quite successfull in taking players, who didn't get any minutes with other teams (see Brezec, see Wallace), so they might not hesitate to gamble on a player like Butler.

so: I would offer them Williams+Butler for Gerald Wallace and add teasers, whatever they ask. (1st rounder, as well second rounders, as well as Scola rights)
Wallace would be worth the price, considering the current needs.

While I do like what Wallace brings, whatever we could/would trade to the Bobcats for him, it would amount to a 1/2 season rental. Wallace most likely will opt out & be looking for a near max contract, which the Spurs have no chance of offering him. So we would give the players, the picks & Scolas rights for 40 games of Wallace, that is not a good deal IMO. Like Pop said, we are probably going to go with what we got, maybe we get rid of Williams, maybe not, but the best hope we have IMO would be to offer the entire MLE to Nocioni during the summer & hope he wants to play with Manu..even then somebody will probably offer more than the MLE & we will not be able to match.

Marcus Bryant

01-28-2007, 01:18 PM

You take back a bad contract to get a servicable player and a young talent. Expiring contracts have value. You force another team to give up that talent, not give it up yourself to rent an ok veteran for the rest of this season.

MannyIsGod

01-28-2007, 01:20 PM

Wallace is going to be nowhere near getting a max deal. I think Wallace would be lucky to get a bit more than the MLE. I also don't think the Spurs plan on bringing in Nocioni. I think Scola will be a Spur next year.

MannyIsGod

01-28-2007, 01:20 PM

Marcus Bryant

01-28-2007, 01:21 PM

LIKE WHO!?!?!?!?

Maggette, for starters.

Marcus Bryant

01-28-2007, 01:22 PM

Golden State would be a good target for a trade at this point.

MannyIsGod

01-28-2007, 01:24 PM

Wow, just wow.

Nevermind dude. I'll just discuss things with people who understand that Magette not being in San Antonio was not a choice of the Spurs FO.

Ariel

01-28-2007, 01:25 PM

but the best hope we have IMO would be to offer the entire MLE to Nocioni during the summer & hope he wants to play with Manu..even then somebody will probably offer more than the MLE & we will not be able to match.
I don't think that's a scenario likely to happen even if Nocioni would be willing to take less money to play for the Spurs. Andrés is a RFA, and I'm sure Chicago would match any offer the Spurs can make (up to the MLE), even if for no other reason than getting something in return for him. If the Spurs FO wants Nocioni, I believe it'd take a S&T to get him... and that's still a long shot.

Marcus Bryant

01-28-2007, 01:26 PM

Yeah, it's always much easier to discuss things with those who agree with you.

AFBlue

01-28-2007, 03:24 PM

Then how about Barry, Bonner, Finley, Udrih, etc...? If they were willing to take back a deal they could find some options.

I think Barry is in that "6,7, or 8" players that Pop mentioned will not be traded...

Williams and Beno are the two most probable.

Side Note: Reported in the "Rumors" section of ESPN was that while Orlando wasn't going to "shake things up" they would still explore smaller trades. Sounds like a "peripheral" trade waiting to happen. I'm sure I'll talk it to death and be dissapointed when it doesn't happen, but Arroyo or Dooling for Williams and a second rounder sounds fair enough....

AFBlue

01-28-2007, 03:26 PM

Texas_Ranger

01-28-2007, 04:46 PM

Beno and E.Williams for Nachbar.

ace3g

01-28-2007, 04:53 PM

Nachbar is another one of those SF along with Jumaine Jones, Viktor Khryapa, and Matt Barnes: that I would like the spurs to try and trade for

mardigan

01-28-2007, 09:28 PM

Spurs arent getting Corey F in Maggette, the Clips would have already done the trade if we had anything they wanted, THEY DONT WANT TO TRADE HIM TO US, WE HAVE NOTHING OF VALUE TO THEM.
Nachbar on the other hand is a pretty good option, he has been playing well of late

AFBlue

01-29-2007, 08:32 AM

Beno and E.Williams for Nachbar.

Nets are already rail thin in their frontcourt and Nachbar has trouble on defense. The Nets are still contending in the East and this kid has been getting major minutes of late. He's not going anywhere.

mountainballer

01-29-2007, 09:29 AM

Nets are already rail thin in their frontcourt and Nachbar has trouble on defense. The Nets are still contending in the East and this kid has been getting major minutes of late. He's not going anywhere.

Nachbar isn't an above average rebounder, nor a good defender.
he can shoot, but isn't that outstanding, that he was an improvement from what Spurs already have.
so he wouldn't see many minutes with the Spurs.
I would try to get Khryapa 10 times, before going for Nachbar.

Big P

01-29-2007, 11:38 AM

I don't think that's a scenario likely to happen even if Nocioni would be willing to take less money to play for the Spurs. Andrés is a RFA, and I'm sure Chicago would match any offer the Spurs can make (up to the MLE), even if for no other reason than getting something in return for him. If the Spurs FO wants Nocioni, I believe it'd take a S&T to get him... and that's still a long shot.

I cant find anything that says he is a restricted FA next year. I believe he was not even drafted, he just signed with the Bulls, like Oberto did with us. If that is the case, he would be unrestricted next year, making it possible for us to offer him a contract. I know that the Bulls a very high on Nocioni, but they are going to want to lock up Deng & Gordon, so it might be possible that they dont match. If anybody has anything showing that Nocioni is restricted next year, could you please post it?

Edit: I just found this article about Nocioni on FIBA.com

ARG - Contract uncertainty may keep Nocioni off national team

CHICAGO (FIBA Americas Championship) – Andres Nocioni is a basketball icon in his native Argentina.

He’s a tough-as-nails forward who forged a successful career in Europe, captured a gold medal at the Athens Games in 2004 and then established himself as a force in the NBA with the Chicago Bulls.

Argentinians adore him, just as they do San Antonio Spurs duo Manu Ginobili and Fabricio Oberto, and Tau Ceramica sensation Luis Scola.

But Chapu, as the 27-year-old Nocioni is nicknamed, may not be able to play for his country this summer when they attempt to qualify for the 2008 Olympics.

"I want to be in Las Vegas," he said in a teleconference with reporters.

"I want to play for the national team to qualify for the (2008 Olympic) Games, but I cannot said today if I will be able."

Nocioni’s current deal with Chicago finishes after this season and if the contract is not settled soon enough, he may still be looking to sort out his career when the Argentina players are gathering for the FIBA Americas Championship in Las Vegas.

"I need to wait and be calm," he said.

"I need to know if I will continue with Chicago or not.

The FIBA Americas Championship will run from August 22 to September 2.

"I will be thinking about a new contract with Chicago or I will be looking for a new team," Nocioni said.

"I want to play for Argentina, but I do not know what it is going to happen."

Nocioni, meanwhile, admits he would love to have Pau Gasol as a Bulls team-mate with rumours circulating that Gasol may be traded away from Memphis.

"It would be superb to have Gasol in the squad alongside Ben Wallace," Nocioni said.

"It would be wonderful, that team power. But there are always rumours."

Gasol missed the early part of the NBA campaign after suffering a metatarsal injury in Spain’s semi-final win over Argentina at the FIBA World Championship.

Nocioni fears, because of that injury, that teams may not want their superstars playing in international competition.

"(The clubs) will try to not allow us to play for the national team," he said.

As for his place with the Bulls, Nocioni said: “I do not know about me. I want to stay here, but if I not, I will have to look for a new team.”

By Jeff Taylor, FIBA

Ariel

01-29-2007, 12:21 PM

I cant find anything that says he is a restricted FA next year. I believe he was not even drafted, he just signed with the Bulls, like Oberto did with us. If that is the case, he would be unrestricted next year, making it possible for us to offer him a contract. I know that the Bulls a very high on Nocioni, but they are going to want to lock up Deng & Gordon, so it might be possible that they dont match. If anybody has anything showing that Nocioni is restricted next year, could you please post it?
I don't know or care whether any site has their facts checked, but Nocioni will be a RFA. It's not necessary to have been drafted or to come off a rookie scale deal to be subject to restricted free agency. As long as you're a veteran free agent with no more than 3 seasons, if the team extends a qualifying offer (in this case a formality) then you're a RFA. Here's the proof (http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XI.php):

(b) Any Veteran Free Agent (other than a First Round Pick whose first Option Year or second Option Year was not exercised) who will have three (3) or fewer Years of Service as of the June 30 following the end of the last Season covered by his Player Contract will be a Restricted Free Agent if his Prior Team makes a Qualifying Offer to the player at any time from the day following such Season through the immediately following June 30. If such a Qualifying Offer is made, then, on the July 1 following the last Season covered by the player’s Player Contract, the player shall become a Restricted Free Agent, subject to a Right of First Refusal in favor of the Team (“ROFR Team”), as set forth in Section 5 below. If such a Qualifying Offer is not made, then the player shall become an Unrestricted Free Agent on such July 1.
As for the interview, I don't know how it is that addresses the issue at stake here. Whether he remains with the Bulls or he is a RFA are two separate issues, and neither is sufficient nor necessary condition for the other.

mountainballer

01-29-2007, 01:07 PM

as much as would love to see Chapu in a Spurs uniform, to get him is one of the most unlikely scenario.
as mentioned, if he becomes a RFA, Spurs can only offer the MLE and Bulls will be thankfull to match a MLE offer for Nocioni.
a sign and trade will only happen, if Nocioni will refuse to play for the Bulls any more, but why should he?
Bulls are a great franchise with a great future and it might happen that Bulls ship Deng to Memphis for Gasol, then Nocioni would be the starting SF alongside Gasol for a Bulls team, that will be a contender for the next 5 years.
would you run away from such a situation? I wouldn't.
the best chance for the Spurs might be, that Chiapu gets traded as part of a trade for a star big (Gasol, KG, JO, or whoever has been mentioned in the past) and doesn't want to resign with the new team and somehow forces them to accept a s&t.

ploto

01-29-2007, 01:17 PM

I didn't read through this whole thread, but apparently Zach Randolph is available.

mountainballer

01-29-2007, 02:56 PM

I didn't read through this whole thread, but apparently Zach Randolph is available.

we could trade Gasol for him. he was aquired on page 3 of the thread i guess.

AFBlue

01-29-2007, 05:20 PM

I know Walter Hermann was mentioned previously in this thread, though it seemed to be sort of blown over. He's 6'9 225lb combo forward with range. I know he wouldn't be "championship-altering", but his long-range shooting and ties to Ginobili/Oberto could pay dividends.

How much does he make, what would it take to get him?

Big P

01-29-2007, 06:07 PM

He's on a minimum contract, making about $450,000

AFBlue

01-29-2007, 09:07 PM

He's on a minimum contract, making about $450,000

Thanks!

It's too bad the Spurs have nothing the Bobcats want...or do they?

Bruno

01-30-2007, 06:52 AM

Thanks!

It's too bad the Spurs have nothing the Bobcats want...or do they?

Bobcats don't like Hermann, they have almost cut him sooner in the season. Something like a second round pick should be enough to get him.

Bruno

01-30-2007, 06:58 AM

http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=1087

First off lets get to gossip. I’m hearing two rumors circulating around the team. First is that the team is actively shopping Johan Petro and he expects to be gone at or before the deadline. Johan’s value is pretty interesting. Despite not being perfect he is only 20 years old, 7 feet tall, and has proven that he can play in the league. That is the type of guy who could really come back to bite you in the butt if he developes. Could you expect better out of a draft pick? Would you trade him for an unknown quantity? I’m not entirely sure.

Most of the reporters in the last two games expect Damien Wilkens to be trade bait at the deadline. Mickael Gelabale is simply playing at too high a level to reduce his minutes when Rashard Lewis returns. Wilkens becomes the odd man out in that scenario.

I don't think Petro can be interesting : poor work ethic, not that good and a high trade value.
I like more Damien Wilkins, he was quite good against us in 05. The knock on him is that his has a long term contract even if his salary is quite low and I wonder what is his actual level (being outplayed by a rookie isn't a good sign).

mountainballer

01-30-2007, 07:17 AM

there are rumors, that the Sonics are very active on the market.
they are said to activly shop Johan Petro and also expect Damien Wilkins as potential part of packages, since he looks more and more expendable because of the development of Gelabale and the return of Rashard Lewis.
some time ago it was reported, that Earl Watson is on the block and wants out himself badly. Watson has been mentioned by some posters in trade scenarios.

Sonics are going nowhere this season, even if Lewis will return soon, they won't make the PO. it looks more as if they start another rebuilding process.
which means they will try to get rid of long term contracts (Watson, Wilkins) and aquire picks and/or young players.
they know, that they can find a nice piece in the next draft, even if they don't win the 1-3 pick.
it will likely be another big, some out of the group Noah, Splitter, Horford, McRoberts (and some more) will be there when they pick, so I can see why Petro isn't part of their future plans.

Spurs can't offer great deals, but they can offer some little things, that might make the Sonics listen.
IMO Wilkins is a player Spurs could use.
he is a bit overpayed for his talent (3 million per year, another 3 years on his contract), but not by far.
he is more athletic than all players Spurs have right now and he is a decent defender, who could be really good in a system like the Spurs.
the expiring contract of Williams + the higher second rounder (currently no.38 pick) or 2 lower 2nd rounders might do the deal.

if the price asking price wasn't to high, I would also do the gamble on Petro.
I know, he doesn't have a high reputation, but considering that we have a young center prospect with attitude problems and weight problems, I would prefer a prospect with only attitude concerns, who is an outstanding athlete at least. If it takes the rights for Mahinmi to get Petro, I would do it.
(and yes, I know most won't agree)

Watson would be interesting, his aquisation might have the biggest impact, but I fear Spurs absolutly don't want to pay the 6 million per year (for 3 more years) for his work as a back-up. but I just wanted to include the theoretical possibility.

so my scenarios are like this:

a.) Wilkins (+ the non guarranteed Wilks contract for the numbers) for E.Williams + 2nd rounder(s)

b.) Wilkins + Petro (+ filler if needed) for Williams + Mahinmi rights (or Butler?) + second rounders (or 2008 first rounder?)

c.) Wilkins + Petro + Watson for Williams + Butler + Beno + picks and/or rights (could also be White)

mountainballer

01-30-2007, 07:18 AM

I don't think Petro can be interesting : poor work ethic, not that good and a high trade value.
I like more Damien Wilkins, he was quite good against us in 05. The knock on him is that his has a long term contract even if his salary is quite low and I wonder what is his actual level (being outplayed by a rookie isn't a good sign).

to write my post has been taking so long, so you beat me to most of it. :lol

mountainballer

01-30-2007, 08:10 AM

I like more Damien Wilkins, he was quite good against us in 05. The knock on him is that his has a long term contract even if his salary is quite low and I wonder what is his actual level (being outplayed by a rookie isn't a good sign).

well, I wouldn't exactly call it outplayed. Gelabale looked better than Wilkins in January, that's it.
while Gelabale is a rookie, he can't be compared to a young unexpirienced rookie.
he is 23 and has tons of games at a high pro level under his belt (2 ACB seasons, 2 Euroleague seasons, world cup etc) and I think he will once be labeled as one of the steals of the 2005 draft anyhow. so, losing minutes to a rookie like Gelabale is maybe not that much of a bad sign, as it looks in the first place.
but if it screws the price for Wilkins, we should be happy if Gelabale outplays him.

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 08:20 AM

Walter Herrmann:18 pts(8/13) in 20 mins vs.Golden State/5 pts in
6 mins.(2/2 Fg) vs.Nuggets win.
Not bad for a roockie huhh????
what about beno for Herrmann,straight up.??????

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 08:33 AM

and they´ll problably trade him for someone cheaper tham beno.....

mountainballer

01-30-2007, 08:39 AM

just an additional quickthought about a potential Sonics trade.
Sonics should like our 2nd round picks.
while they usually blow their first rounders (or at least pass on much better players still on the board) the somehow manged to use their second rounders like few other teams did in the past:
Rashard Lewis
Bobby Simmons
Earl Watson
Flip Murray
Willie Greene
Mickael Gelabale
(Roberts and Halprin might have to be added to this list soon)
even if some of them have been traded immediatly, this is quite a nice strike rate for 2nd round picks.
if I was the Sonics I would trade all my 1st rounders for 2nd rounders :lol

Bruno

01-30-2007, 09:36 AM

a.) Wilkins (+ the non guarranteed Wilks contract for the numbers) for E.Williams + 2nd rounder(s)

I like this one. Wilks contract is guaranteed (non guaranteed contracts become guaranteed for the reminder of the season on january 10th) and Spurs don't have the roster spot to take him, they must waive someone before doing this trade. With a third team taking Wilks, it's a good trade but I wonder if Spurs shouldn't include Barry (maybe going to a third team) if they do a trade for Wilkins : adding Wilkins to the roster without unloading Barry will create a logjam at SG/SF and cost a lot of money.

Gelabale is a rookie, he can't be compared to a young unexpirienced rookie.
he is 23 and has tons of games at a high pro level under his belt (2 ACB seasons, 2 Euroleague seasons, world cup etc)

Gelabale isn't older than some college seniors and don't forget that he has spend his alst year in Spain in the doghouse. He wasn't a HS guy but he wasn't too a star in europe. Wilkins hasn't really improvec since his rookie year, maybe he isn't good enough to play a role for a contending team.

Walter Herrmann:18 pts(8/13) in 20 mins vs.Golden State

He has scored most of his point during the garbage time, not really significant. Herrmann has had a disapointing rookie season so far.

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 09:41 AM

He´(herrmann) has scored most of his point during the garbage time, not really significant. Herrmann has had a disapointing rookie season so far.

he hasnt had a chance either dude. he can do better tham what he´s being doing so far.

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 09:48 AM

He(Herrmann) has scored most of his point during the garbage time, not really significant. Herrmann has had a disapointing rookie season so far.

and right now the spurs have players that even on garbage time still suck like: Beno,Vaughn or Williams.
I´d reather have a player that performes and delivers good Basketball on garbarge time tham a player who sucks all the time.

Bruno

01-30-2007, 09:51 AM

he hasnt had a chance either dude. he can do better tham what he´s being doing so far.

And do you think that a coach chose ramdomly who will play or who won't play ?
Herrmann hasn't played more because he hasn't been good enough in practice and when has was on the court.
Maybe he has some difficulties to adapt to nba style, maybe he is a bad fit with Charlotte but maybe he isn't good enough to play in nba.

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 10:00 AM

Bruno

01-30-2007, 10:01 AM

and right now the spurs have players that even on garbage time still suck like: Beno,Vaughn or Williams.
I´d reather have a player that performes and delivers good Basketball on garbarge time tham a player who sucks all the time.

Beno and Vaughn ar PGs, do you want to play Herrmann at PG ?

I have never said that Spurs shouldn't trade a player like Williams for Herrmann. In fact this is a trade that make a lot of sense for Spurs (mainly for financial reasons).

Herrmann sucks this year and it's not some garbage time that will change that.

timvp

01-30-2007, 10:04 AM

Hermann is from Argentina. That means he'll be an NBA All-Star.

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 10:07 AM

Beno and Vaughn ar PGs, do you want to play Herrmann at PG ?

I have never said that Spurs shouldn't trade a player like Williams for Herrmann. In fact this is a trade that make a lot of sense for Spurs (mainly for financial reasons).

Herrmann sucks this year and it's not some garbage time that will change that.

you don´t really have to trade a PG for another PG.if you need a SF ,and need to get rid of one of your backups PGs you just do it.cause the other team may need a PG in exchange for the SF you are getting.
vaughn for Herrmann,straight up.

Bruno

01-30-2007, 10:10 AM

you don´t really have to trade a PG for another PG.if you need a SF ,and need to get rid of one of your backups PGs you just do it.cause the other team may need a PG in exchange for the SF you are getting.

If I really need a SF, I will go after a better one than Herrmann.

vaughn for Herrmann,straight up.

I can't imagine spurstalk's state if Beno is Spurs' only backup PG. :lol

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 10:12 AM

Herrmann>Bonner.

ArgSpursFan

01-30-2007, 10:14 AM

I can't imagine spurstalk's state if Beno is Spurs' only backup PG. :lol

Beno=sucks
vaughn=sucks even WORSE

AFBlue

01-30-2007, 11:30 AM

The "money" trade involving Hermann would be him + Knight for Williams + Beno + pick, but I just don't see the Bobcats' interest in that deal...

AFBlue

01-30-2007, 11:46 AM

mountainballer

01-30-2007, 12:12 PM

adding Wilkins to the roster without unloading Barry will create a logjam at SG/SF and cost a lot of money.

well, I just thought about this season and some adjustments that will help right now. Wilkins would for sure upgrade the perimeter defense, something that might be crucial against the Mavs and Suns.
it's right, that without any further moves the Spurs would overpay for their wing backups with Barry, Finley and Wilkins (5.5+3.1+2.9= 11.5), but there are some options in the offseason to change this.
Finley might opt out (if he wins a ring this year?), either Finley or Barry might be traded (their expiring contracts might find some takers) in a deal for a big or a backup PG. however, what I want to say: let's fix problem a first and this would mean, that Wilkins is quite an upgrade over Eric Williams and would give the Spurs more versatility to adjust to different matchups.

Wilkins hasn't really improvec since his rookie year, maybe he isn't good enough to play a role for a contending team.

yes, maybe. but then we should have never aquired Elson. or Bonner. or even Devin. (Bruce?)
he has some qualities (on defense) that might work well with the Spurs and as a 20 minutes back up player, he might find his place in this team.
well, maybe it is the remembrance to this game 4 in the 2005 PO, when he tortured us on offense and defense.

mountainballer

01-30-2007, 12:27 PM

Saw on the ESPN rumor page that the Magic are fielding alot of calls and might look to make a smaller deal....do you think the Spurs are in the talks? Who is the most-likely candidate for a trade...Arroyo? Dooling? Hedo?

Magic are in panic mode. they are 2-8 over the last ten and if the can't stop that trend they might even lose their PO spot.
the problem is: the only player, who would be a great addition for the Spurs is Ariza and the Magic won't trade him (and he is currently injured anyhow).
I don't trust Arroyo. he is a great talent, but talent also isn't the problem with Beno. Arroyo has always had problems to insert his play in a team system (Jazz, Pistons), so he would struggle with the Spurs even more.
and Doolings only quality would be a small upgrade in defense over Beno, but that's it.
Hedo? don't know. no. not for the money he makes. for half the money, maybe.

Bruno

01-30-2007, 02:03 PM

well, I just thought about this season and some adjustments that will help right now.

It's not only about next year.
A 5 swing rotation (Manu/Bruce/Brent/Mike/Wilkins) won't be easy to manage. You had to find PT to keep everybody involve and happy.
It will be more managable if the 5th swing agrees to get some "DNP CD" and if he can play PF in small ball lineup (a player like Khryapa). Wilkins is a bad fit for a small ball PF and has had words with Hill about his lack of PT.

AFBlue

01-30-2007, 02:18 PM

Doolings only quality would be a small upgrade in defense over Beno, but that's it.

I've got to admit that Dooling's 9 ppg (40% FG, 35% 3P) and 1.5 apg in 23 mpg isn't sexy.....

But it's definitely more than a "small upgrade" over Beno's 5ppg (35% FG, 25% 3P) and 2 apg in 15 mpg. So is Arroyo's 8+ ppg and 3+ apg in 20 mpg. The point is that most second and even some third string PGs in this league are outplaying Beno. Therefore, they would be upgrades.

AFBlue

01-30-2007, 03:08 PM

What about one of the four young guards for Boston...a likely lottery team?

West - Starts at PG and is likely the most untouchable -- a combo guard that has it all (shoots, passes, defends)

Rondo - Slow start, but has really picked up steam lately-- poor perimeter shot, but excellent rebounder, and pass-first guy

Telfair - Started early, but has played sparingly of late -- not a great shooter, but extremely quick with good vision

Ray - Play has increased of late as energy guy off bench --primarily a SG in a PG body, but good/great shooter and athlete

Do you think any of these players could become available before the deadline, and what would they cost?