Stoudemire and Diaw have to be Suspended

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'd prefer no Suns suspensions. Its not really warranted.

Agreed.

And I don't think they will be suspended.

We'll have to win it fair and square, without Horry who I bet will be suspended, if we can do that.

[RonMexico]

It all sucks because two key Suns post players could be out for the most pivotal game of the series for an event that didn't escalate beyond Horry throwing an elbow into Raja Bell's throat.

I thought it was hilarious that Nash got up and into his face and I'm also surprised a tech wasn't called on him either, because he did more than Amare/Diaw/Bell since he actually grabbed Horry's jersey.

However, if the Spurs receive the benefit of an Amare/Diaw for Horry "trade" do we consider that a "call" in the Spurs' favor? Just food for thought....

P.S. Suns received the benefit of a lot of calls tonight, but, aside from a few flops, not all were bullshit.

[L.I.T]

The problem with the whole bench clearing thing is it should be put into context when determining suspensions. If the Suns players went to the fracas, re, to Horry/Raja, then alright, maybe a suspension for Diaw. If they ran over to Nash, they shouldn't be suspended for that...I have yet to watch the replay so I don't remember where they went. As for that little bitch, Horry, he definitely should be suspended not so much for the foul, but for the b.s. afterwards. It's alright to foul hard but he's such a bitch that he couldn't even go over to Nash after the foul and help him up. Nash went over to Parker when they collided, don't expect the same from a sorry bitch like Horry.

I think the reason the rule is so cut and dry is intent is hard to gauge. Regulating based on intent can become dicey and very dangerous.

[Kobulingam]

Take off the Spurs GOGGLES and check the scoreboard! Suns WIN! Spurs are back to being the whiners! :drunk


Are yoou a dumb fuck? I know Suns won. I'm saying Horry wanted to foul nash to put him on the foul line while givnig a little extra (a playoff hard foul). He just overdid it and the physics of the situation plus a Nash flop made it look like the worst thing you've seen.

Horry didn't go for his head. Horry didn't swing at him. It's not as bad as you think. Horry will be suspended for 1 game. Raja, Amare, Diaw too.

[DarrinS]

Please, no suspensions. Hopefully, the NBA will not fullfill D'Antonio's dream of total league pussification.

[Amarelooms]

Thanks for proving my point! It's called being SOFT! That's why you lost to an #8!

Hahah if you call not trying to injure your opponent cause you can't beat em soft then I rather my team be soft. Even if the Spurs win this series the league and rest of the teams will be out against them....imagine what Utah and Detroit will get away with against you guy lol :elephant

[SpursFanFirst]

what's comical is equating Horry's actions with Stoudemire's and Diaw's.

if Amare & Boris get suspended for 1 game as they rightfully should, then Horry should be out for the remainder of the series.

I guess I don't understand your logic. You can't compare the 2 incidents...Horry vs. Diaw/Stoudemire...totally different things.
Along with each of those actions, there are rules and consequences.
In Horry's case, he picked up a flagrant2, which is a one game suspension and a fine, right? I don't know the specifics, so perhaps someone will correct this if it's wrong.
And in Diaw and Stoudemire's case, they left their bench area and entered the court, which is a big no-no with a suspension attached to it.

Just because you think Horry's mistake was bigger doesn't mean you can change the rules to fit what you want to happen.

Don't get me wrong...I'm upset that Horry even resorted to that behavior. It's extremely unfortunate, and he'll get what he deserves.
But, I think the punishment should fit ALL the crimes, not just some of them.

[ploto]

By rules set forth by the league, Horry gets a 1 game suspension for a flagrant 2.

They could suspend him more for what he did IN ADDITION to the flagrant foul.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Take off the Spurs GOGGLES and check the scoreboard! Suns WIN! Spurs are back to being the whiners! :drunk

Good for the Spurs. Only six more days of press conferences and two more games of it to catch up to what the Suns have done so far.

[ponky]

Yeah, Horry should stand over Nash like Terry did to Finley after punching him in the balls.

Fuck off, stupid Dallas wench.

Way to respond to the post bitch. I didn't have any problems with Terry's suspension, which he readily deserved. If you weren't such a little homer, you wouldn't blindly defend what was so obviously fucked up tonight with Horry's actions.

[ATXSPUR]

ALL MY FELLOW SPURS REMEMBER THIS!

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/texaslh_2006/Dontfeedthetroll.jpg

[sabar]

Man I've never agreed with AHF more...
I'm scared.

[L.I.T]

It all sucks because two key Suns post players could be out for the most pivotal game of the series for an event that didn't escalate beyond Horry throwing an elbow into Raja Bell's throat.

I thought it was hilarious that Nash got up and into his face and I'm also surprised a tech wasn't called on him either, because he did more than Amare/Diaw/Bell since he actually grabbed Horry's jersey.

However, if the Spurs receive the benefit of an Amare/Diaw for Horry "trade" do we consider that a "call" in the Spurs' favor? Just food for thought....

P.S. Suns received the benefit of a lot of calls tonight, but, aside from a few flops, not all were bullshit.

Not particularly. They were removed from on-court play. If they get suspended, it will be as a direct result of their choices made away from the play. Now if Horry isn't suspended and they are...that's a different story.

[dbreiden83080]

As I've said, I don't think Amare or Diaw should be suspended as they didn't join the altercation. The rule was created to keep people who come in and start swinging off the court. Had they got involved, I'd say suspend them.

Horry on the other hand... An F2 will always lead to a suspension. Had Horry not raised the elbow like he did it would have just been a hard foul or F1. The raising of the elbow is what got him the F2.

You don't get it by the letter of the law you are not allowed to step on the court if you are on the bench during a altercation PERIOD. There is no gray area on this and the Knicks in 97 proves that.

[PM5K]

Davis got suspended five games for entering the stands to protect his wife.

The rules are the rules, you leave the bench you sit a game...

[monosylab1k]

Why?

By rules set forth by the league, Horry gets a 1 game suspension for a flagrant 2.

By rules set forth by the league, those two get a 1 game suspension for leaving the bench.

And you wonder why Cuban and 99% of Mavs fans bitch about the league being fixed? It's because they bitch about the league trying to twist rules into a gray area to protect the stars, the exact thing you are now advocating.

Lame.

And what would your opinion be if this was Kurt Thomas knocking Tony Parker out of bounds, and Duncan & Finley were the ones that left the bench?

[ponky]

ALL MY FELLOW SPURS REMEMBER THIS!

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/texaslh_2006/Dontfeedthetroll.jpg


right, circle the wagons and talk so much b.s. to each that you actually believe what you're hearing with regards to tonight's incidents. if you can't make a logical argument with regards to your position then just stfu.

[RonMexico]

Nash's reaction was poor - he shouldn't have done anything ... he's always exhibited great character and judgement in the past, and this got the best of him.

And I'm speaking of Bell's turning Horry and shoving him ... and for his bullshit elbows earlier in the game.

Bell didn't do anything to Horry before Rob threw an elbow into his neck... I've watched the replay a hundred times and was certain Bell instigated it, but I even watched it in real-time and there was no contact until Horry threw the elbow.

If you want to talk about "bullshit elbows" look no further than Oberto (huge offender) and Manu... now if you meant "bullshit flops off screens" then Raja wins in a landslide.

How can you call into question Nash's "character" when all he does is hop up (after being slammed into the boards, btw) and grab Horry's jersey? You find it convenient not to mention the fact that Horry acted like a total thug when he's usually the calm, collected, and playful one out there? You don't think this was a stain on his "character"?

[Amarelooms]

right, circle the wagons and talk so much b.s. to each that you actually believe what you're hearing with regards to tonight's incidents. if you can't make a logical argument with regards to your position then just stfu.

Forget them ponky...can you tell us what you got on tonight? Pretty please :elephant

[ATXSPUR]

And what would your opinion be if this was Kurt Thomas knocking Tony Parker out of bounds, and Duncan & Finley were the ones that left the bench?

I would say duncan and finley sit a game. I know you suns get special treatment but in this case you SHOULD NOT be above the rules!!!

[x_roux_x]

Let me get this strait... your team acts like a buncha bitches and crosses the line and you EXPECT the league to help you out?

Fuck off.

Wait were u referring to ur team or the Spurs? :rolleyes

[sabar]

And what would your opinion be if this was Kurt Thomas knocking Tony Parker out of bounds, and Duncan & Finley were the ones that left the bench?Then Duncan and Finley are gone and are total dumbasses for doing it. But that would never happen, because they don't have the IQ of a rock.

Typical, mavfan whines about the league twisting the rules and fixing the games and then advocates the very thing as soon as their soft team chokes in the first round.

[TheReckoning]

If this how you guys feel about everything, whats to stop D'Antoni from sending out Burke to Cold Cock/Sucker Punch Duncan right in front of the Spurs Bench and see how many of them can "keep their cool" and stay put? I guarantee the whole bench clears.
All thats left would be for D'Antoni to make sure at least 5 guys stay seated at their bench and Suns win by default. I don't think any one here thinks that is how the series should go but that is the message that would be sent should Amare and Diaw get suspended.

[ATXSPUR]

right, circle the wagons and talk so much b.s. to each that you actually believe what you're hearing with regards to tonight's incidents. if you can't make a logical argument with regards to your position then just stfu.

I suggest you dont say anything you wouldnt say to my face.

[ponky]

And what would your opinion be if this was Kurt Thomas knocking Tony Parker out of bounds, and Duncan & Finley were the ones that left the bench?

mono!!!!! i like your avatar, i love ireland and i love rugby!

anyway, you know well what AHF's reaction would be, "SUSPENSION!!!!"

[Trainwreck2100]

And what would your opinion be if this was Kurt Thomas knocking Tony Parker out of bounds, and Duncan & Finley were the ones that left the bench?

Da Fuck are you doing here

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You don't get it by the letter of the law you are not allowed to step on the court if you are on the bench during a altercation PERIOD. There is no gray area on this and the Knicks in 97 proves that.

What altercation? There was no altercation, just a few people milling around.

Neither will be suspended, but Horry will be.

We're deep in the shit and we have only ourselves to blame... I will not use the terrible reffing as an excuse, because our team should have had more composure and found a way through it.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Way to respond to the post bitch. I didn't have any problems with Terry's suspension, which he readily deserved. If you weren't such a little homer, you wouldn't blindly defend what was so obviously fucked up tonight with Horry's actions.

We've all said Horry deserves a suspension. As do anyone leaving the bench and stepping on the court when Nash got clocked. That would be Amare and Diaw. Open and shut case.

[ponky]

I suggest you dont say anything you wouldnt say to my face.

bitch, i'm not afraid of anybody, at least i say something rather than post stupid little cartoons about trolls

[VincentG]

People are overreacting. The rule states:During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench.

Key word vicinity. The word is vague so the league can have some wiggle room and make judgment calls. Amare and Diaw will not be suspended. If you need more proof that just because they leave the bench it's not automatic. Case and point the Lakers and Kings fight. Not all players who left the bench were suspended. It's not open and shut. I wish you people knew what you were talking about before stating it's open and shut. See below:

__________________________________________________ ___________________
Fox suspended six games; Christie two for Lakers-Kings fight
Oct. 28, 2002
SportsLine.com wire reports

NEW YORK -- Rick Fox was suspended for six games, Doug Christie was banished for two, and every member of the Sacramento Kings who left the bench during a fight with the Los Angeles Lakers got off scot-free.

In a surprising ruling Monday by NBA vice president Stu Jackson, the Sacramento Kings were not punished as badly as they may have expected for their part in a bench-clearing brawl during the first quarter of an exhibition game at Los Angeles last Friday.

Jackson ruled that because the players left the bench to join a fracas in a hallway underneath the stands, rather than on the court, they would not receive the customary one-game suspension for that offense.

"This is not a new precedent at all," Jackson said in a conference call with reporters. "In the end we felt this case was very unusual, a special case."

. . .

When the fight resumed beneath the stands, several Sacramento players left the bench area and raced down a tunnel leading to the locker rooms.

Stu Jackson noted that when the fight first broke out on the court, none of the Kings players left the bench. He also said that the Kings players likely did not know exactly what was happening under the stands when they rushed off the court to intervene.

"I don't think anybody on the benches fully knew what was going on out of sight of the bench areas," Jackson said.

. . .

Previous suspensions for leaving the bench were made in accordance with an NBA rule that states: "During an altercation, all players not taking part in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of the bench. Violators will be suspended without pay for a minimum of one game and fined up to $20,000."

Stu Jackson said any players who leave the bench during an on-court altercation will continue to be suspended for one game.

The Kings, who were relieved by the ruling, will have only nine players available for their opener against Cleveland as Mike Bibby, Lawrence Funderburke and Christie will be sidelined.

"I was glad the commissioner saw fit to understand, not just react," Christie said.

[ducks]

suns player will be suspened due to the fight in piston land
sad but true
spurs need to get thomas in foul trouble in game 5
DRIVE Attack!

[x_roux_x]

Haha Spurs can't beat the Suns so they want Amare suspended. So sad. Classless play by Horry caused the whole thing. If that's the case then Horry should be suspended for the rest of the series.

Haha the cheap ass mavericks couldnt beat anybody in the playoffs...haha...shut the fuck up...we are still here...

[dbreiden83080]

This is SHITTY Spurs should have won the game they lost it the Suns did not win it at all. They played like shit late in this game from every angle. Bottom line though Amare and Boris will not be playing in game 5 and i bet Horry is done for the series so Spurs had better look like winning game 5.

[mVp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0qe7PGCQvI

play of the fucking game

[Kevin Blackistone]

What altercation? There was no altercation, just a few people milling around.

Neither will be suspended, but Horry will be.

We're deep in the shit and we have only ourselves to blame... I will not use the terrible reffing as an excuse, because our team should have had more composure and found a way through it.

Did you not watch the game? Nash got up running at Horry, Bell elbowed Horry from the side before Horry elbowed Bell in the chest. In NBA terms, that's an altercation.

[Amarelooms]

Then Duncan and Finley are gone and are total dumbasses for doing it. But that would never happen, because they don't have the IQ of a rock.

Typical, mavfan whines about the league twisting the rules and fixing the games and then advocates the very thing as soon as their soft team chokes in the first round.

Nothing to do with IQ lol. If it happened near the Spurs bench instead the same thing would happen...called EMOTION and protecting your team-mate...when you see your MVP freakin body checked into the scorers table you gonna step in that direction...HUMAN INSTINCT you dumb fuck lol. Love these Spurs homers :elephant

[ponky]

We've all said Horry deserves a suspension. As do anyone leaving the bench and stepping on the court when Nash got clocked. That would be Amare and Diaw. Open and shut case.

diaw yes, amare no...besides, why do you guys care so much if amare plays? you really want to win a game that way? why ruin a great series?

[Kobulingam]

If this how you guys feel about everything, whats to stop D'Antoni from sending out Burke to Cold Cock/Sucker Punch Duncan right in front of the Spurs Bench and see how many of them can "keep their cool" and stay put? I guarantee the whole bench clears.
All thats left would be for D'Antoni to make sure at least 5 guys stay seated at their bench and Suns win by default. I don't think any one here thinks that is how the series should go but that is the message that would be sent should Amare and Diaw get suspended.

Because if that happened D'Antoni will be out of the NBA.

[ATXSPUR]

We've all said Horry deserves a suspension. As do anyone leaving the bench and stepping on the court when Nash got clocked. That would be Amare and Diaw. Open and shut case.

THANK YOU!!! Horry gets suspended because he violated a rule. So did amare and diaw. I dont give a fuck who started what or any of that bullshit. These suns have not given any good reasons why amare and diaw are above the rules.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Way to respond to the post bitch. I didn't have any problems with Terry's suspension, which he readily deserved. If you weren't such a little homer, you wouldn't blindly defend what was so obviously fucked up tonight with Horry's actions.

Where have I blindly defended Horry's actions? It was a cheap shot. So fucking what? Horry lost his cool. In retaliation, so did Diaw and Amare.

That's fucking life. And there are consequences for life.

And if you've got a problem with it, you prove you're nothing but another spoiled little Dallas brat who is still smarting over getting Golden Stated in the first round.

[gtownspur]

Suspend them. Period.

WTF! I totally agree,
First CBF,

now you!!!

It's the sign of the apocalypse.

[x_roux_x]

Amare was holding people back... LOOK AT THE REPLAY

looked thrice...and all three times I saw that u were wrong....

[mikekim]

I posted this in the wrong thread (yes, I am doing my copy/paste my own comment move...if you don't like it....alright, i'll leave...) don't know if this has been said already:

I'm starting to think....(and don't anyone take this as me condoning Horry's actions...I posted a thread about my thoughts on that) if amare and diaw get suspended, could Horry have made the ultimate veteran move with his foul???

He's old, he probably is in need of a break, so, knowing the temperament of the young suns, he figures he will make a couple suns players sit with him??

(realize that I am in no way saying this seriously with a straight face...but it's an interesting thought, haha)

Notice he commited the foul RIGHT by the suns bench...hmmmmmmmmm

mmmMMmMmm

























mmmm

[x_roux_x]

if thats the way you guys need to win this series, ok.

class of the league, right?

Yeah the mavericks fans are a fan base worthy to talk considering ur team... :rolleyes

[monosylab1k]

Then Duncan and Finley are gone and are total dumbasses for doing it. But that would never happen, because they don't have the IQ of a rock.

true. but hypothetically speaking, i think that if this happened, the vast majority of Spurs fans would scream bloody murder if any of their beloved players got suspended just because of the "letter of the law".


Typical, mavfan whines about the league twisting the rules and fixing the games and then advocates the very thing as soon as their soft team chokes in the first round.

i'm already on record that Amare and Diaw ought to be suspended according to the rules. so shove your "typical mavfan" bullshit right up your ass. I just think it's crap that a bitch ass move by Horry hurts the Suns more than the Spurs. But I guess that's what the Suns get for emphasizing jacking up three's over having some sort of basketball IQ.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If this how you guys feel about everything, whats to stop D'Antoni from sending out Burke to Cold Cock/Sucker Punch Duncan right in front of the Spurs Bench and see how many of them can "keep their cool" and stay put? I guarantee the whole bench clears.
All thats left would be for D'Antoni to make sure at least 5 guys stay seated at their bench and Suns win by default. I don't think any one here thinks that is how the series should go but that is the message that would be sent should Amare and Diaw get suspended.

One, the league would nail the Suns and their collective asses to the wall.

The other, you obviously don't know shit about the rules because if suspensions would cause a team to have less than a certain number of players active for a game then they will stagger the suspensions.


diaw yes, amare no...besides, why do you guys care so much if amare plays? you really want to win a game that way? why ruin a great series?

What is so different about Diaw and Amare? Because one's a star and one's not?

[Kobulingam]

diaw yes, amare no...besides, why do you guys care so much if amare plays? you really want to win a game that way? why ruin a great series?


Hell yes. This game was handed to the SUns. Without refs Spurs looked sharp enough to build a 20 point lead.

Raja throwing elbows and flopping all over. Nash running into Spurs to free up teammates. Barbosa leaning 90degrees into Parker to get a foul call. Suns in the restricted circle (pretty obvious) and getting charge calls (on Duncan!!). Stupid offensive foul calls on Spurs (on Duncan!!!). Hard foul on Oberto (no call). Hard foul on Parker.

It has to even out. We get Game 5 easily with Amare, Bell, Diaw missing.

[ponky]

Where have I blindly defended Horry's actions? It was a cheap shot. So fucking what? Horry lost his cool. In retaliation, so did Diaw and Amare.

That's fucking life. And there are consequences for life.

And if you've got a problem with it, you prove you're nothing but another spoiled little Dallas brat who is still smarting over getting Golden Stated in the first round.

apparently you're the only one who can't get over the fact that i'm a mavs fan or that first round series, seeing as how you mentioned it like five times in the last two pages...that would be like me constantly ridiculing your dumbass aggies hoop team over their loss two months ago. i'm over it, i suggest you quickly get over it as well seeing as how your team is now all tied up with the suns. btw, i'm not from dallas, never lived there, have no desire to live anywhere but austin and nyc.

[dbreiden83080]

Jackson ruled that because the players left the bench to join a fracas in a hallway underneath the stands, rather than on the court, they would not receive the customary one-game suspension for that offense.





This is all you need to know they were not on the court during the altercation. Had this happened on the court they would have been suspended. Again by the letter of the law Amare and Boris are gone for game 5.

[ponky]

Hell yes. This game was handed to the SUns. Without refs Spurs looked sharp enough to build a 20 point lead.

Raja throwing elbows and flopping all over. Nash running into Spurs to free up teammates. Barbosa leaning 90degrees into Parker to get a foul call. Suns in the restricted circle (pretty obvious) and getting charge calls (on Duncan!!). Stupid offensive foul calls on Spurs (on Duncan!!!). Hard foul on Oberto. Hard foul on Parker.

It has to even out. We get Game 5 easily with Amare, Bell, Diaw missing.


:lmao alright homer, alright

[Kevin Blackistone]

diaw yes, amare no...besides, why do you guys care so much if amare plays? you really want to win a game that way? why ruin a great series?

I want to see a full strength game, but if Horry is suspended for breaking a rule then so should Amare and Diaw (btw - Amare went farther on the court than Diaw and was more aggressive before his coaches wrangled him). Do you think Horry should not be suspended?

It's the mother fucking principle of the matter.

[mikekim]

Damn...someone already posted it and it's been discussed to the ground...geez...i'll just sit and watch now...

[RonMexico]

Is it just me or does it seem like Spurs fans are hiding behind the "letter of the law" argument because they're scared to see the Suns at full-strength in Game 5?

Do you fail to realize the disappointment that would be Game 5 to rob two key players of their chance to sit on the bench because they walked out of the bench area?

It's weak to think that their actions are worse than Horry's... who also threw the elbow at Raja Bell, while Bell got a tech.

[TheReckoning]

Because if that happened D'Antoni will be out of the NBA.

Maybe so but the Suns win the Series and Ivaroni takes over. All im sayin is that kind of action becomes a possibility if they suspend Diaw and Amare. Its not like they ran onto the floor and started throwin blows. Diaw never crossed the out of bounds line and stat walked gingerly over to where Nash was.

[dbreiden83080]

diaw yes, amare no...besides, why do you guys care so much if amare plays? you really want to win a game that way? why ruin a great series?

What do you mean Amare no watch the replay he was on the court so he has to be run for game 5, the rule is what it is.

[Kobulingam]

Is it just me or does it seem like Spurs fans are hiding behind the "letter of the law" argument because they're scared to see the Suns at full-strength in Game 5?

Do you fail to realize the disappointment that would be Game 5 to rob two key players of their chance to sit on the bench because they walked out of the bench area?

It's weak to think that their actions are worse than Horry's... who also threw the elbow at Raja Bell, while Bell got a tech.


Well it's fucking obvious that the Suns are good on their own court. They were handed this game on our home court. I require retribution!!!

[Jelly]

Well, at least we've gotten to a point where people can no longer call the Spurs "boring".

[Fabbs]

So if the Spurs played stupid tonight, why should AMare and Boris catch a break for reacting stupidly?

Fuck that logic.
:clap :clap
Travelmire was so obviously lying in the interview.

[ploto]

Please someone show me where the rules specifically states- stepping onto the court, as I have not been able to find it. Everyone keeps sayng the letter of the law, but I don't think the law even says that.

[Buddy Holly]

Is it just me or does it seem like Spurs fans are hiding behind the "letter of the law" argument because they're scared to see the Suns at full-strength in Game 5?

I guess your team has been scared this entire series and they've had video sent to the league to review in order to have one of our players suspended. Get the fuck out of here.

[RonMexico]

I want to see a full strength game, but if Horry is suspended for breaking a rule then so should Amare and Diaw (btw - Amare went farther on the court than Diaw and was more aggressive before his coaches wrangled him). Do you think Horry should not be suspended?

It's the mother fucking principle of the matter.

Horry didn't just "break a rule." He nearly broke Steve Nash. Go back to writing your column about the 3-1 Bulls tomorrow, Kevin before you ruin this thread anymore.

You have to think that Stern and the boys upstairs will be looking at the context of the event and determine that both those guys' main intent was probably to attend to their MVP lying on the ground.

Besides, if they do that, they always have the power to change the rules in June.

[dbreiden83080]

Maybe so but the Suns win the Series and Ivaroni takes over. All im sayin is that kind of action becomes a possibility if they suspend Diaw and Amare. Its not like they ran onto the floor and started throwin blows. Diaw never crossed the out of bounds line and stat walked gingerly over to where Nash was.

Means nothing check Knicks in 97 buddy, Ewing had his pink toe on the court and he was gone the next game and so will Amare be gone as well.

[RonMexico]

Did you not watch the game? Nash got up running at Horry, Bell elbowed Horry from the side before Horry elbowed Bell in the chest. In NBA terms, that's an altercation.

No, Bell did not elbow him in the side and Horry elbowed him in the throat, not the chest.

Your Ben Wallace headband is shielding your eyes.

[ploto]

he was on the court so he has to be run for game 5, the rule is what it is.
Citation to the rule?

[dbreiden83080]

Citation to the rule?

HUH??

[ATXSPUR]

Means nothing check Knicks in 97 buddy, Ewing had his pink toe on the court and he was gone the next game and so will Amare be gone as well.

I seriously hope you are right. Game 5 is going to be all about who can control their emotions better. I like the Spurs in that contest. But first justice must be served on both sides.

[Budkin]

The more I watch this the more I'm convinced they are gone.

[Kevin Blackistone]

If the NBA does not suspend them then they can't suspend Horry, and have to rescind all past suspensions as well as never make another suspension again for any reason. They will have set the precedent that the rule can be broken and no punishment given. You want to see an NBA game where the players know they can fuck up anyone and go into full scale riots with players, coaches, and fans without getting penalized by the NBA?

[x_roux_x]

If the league suspends Amare and Diaw it would be a travesty. It would be completely unfair to the Suns regardless of how the rule is written. The league should take the stance that they were going to check back into the game. That way no suspension would be given and they still can save face.

Thats not saving face

[Gino20]

Obivously, there is much opinion regarding this hot topic. As a Spurs fan, I am dissapointed in Horry's hard foul tonight. However, I honestly believe that many individuals are making it alot worse then what it really was. He did not swing at Nash. He simply leaned his shoulder into Nash and Nash went flying. I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was. Again, that don't excuse Horry's actions. He started everything and should be punished. I am trying to be fair even though I am a Spurs fan. This is what I think should happen...

Robert Horry, suspended for the remainder of the series

Amare and Diaw, suspended for one game. They both stepped on the court. If Amare would have stayed on the black part of the court while "checking in, " he would have been excused. However, he didn't.

Bell, fined by the league. Some say that he threw an elbow at Horry first...If he did, he deserves to be suspended as well. However, I did not see this and I am going by what I saw.

Nash, fined by the league. He did get up and go after Horry.

Any other Spurs player that left the bench deserves a one game suspension as well.

This is what I think should happen. Obviously, the Suns don't get much help. However, these players violated different rules and deserve to be punished. Again, I am trying to be fair about everything and I believe this is fair. The NBA has to do something about this series cause it's getting out of hand...

[timvp]

I don't want to see any suspensions for the Suns. The Spurs don't deserve a break.

The Spurs played like b1tches and now deserve to be forced to climb uphill to salvage this series.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Horry didn't just "break a rule." He nearly broke Steve Nash. Go back to writing your column about the 3-1 Bulls tomorrow, Kevin before you ruin this thread anymore.

You have to think that Stern and the boys upstairs will be looking at the context of the event and determine that both those guys' main intent was probably to attend to their MVP lying on the ground.

Besides, if they do that, they always have the power to change the rules in June.

They've made it clear in the past that there is no context to this, especially after what happened in the Palace. Hell, they suspended Patrick Ewing for putting half of one of his size 22s on the court. :lol

If you're going to argue context, I'm going to argue the context of Horry's foul. It really wasn't that flagrant, it just looked that way in the context of a shrimp like Nash getting bounced off of a 6'9" guy and exaggerating the contact to draw a flagrant foul call from the officials and ice the game.

See, isn't 'context' fun? :spin

[Kevin Blackistone]

No, Bell did not elbow him in the side and Horry elbowed him in the throat, not the chest.

Your Ben Wallace headband is shielding your eyes.

I saw it the way I said it. It wasn't the throat, it was the chest and then glanced upwards. Who fucking cares anyway? Both threw intentional shots and both need to be suspended.

[sunsbum]

No, Bell did not elbow him in the side and Horry elbowed him in the throat, not the chest.

Your Ben Wallace headband is shielding your eyes.


dude this whole thread is about the spurs "just wanting whats fair" in suspending diaw and amare, regardless of the fact that they didnt do anything.. and that horrys flagrent was nothing but a "nice hard foul"

own the fuck up homers.

[DarrinS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0qe7PGCQvI

play of the fucking game


Wow. It's amazing how fast this shit gets onto video.


That looks like a frustration foul to me. I've seen that 100+ times. What's sad is, we're going to spend the next few days discussing this vs. basketball.


By the way, that's probably the most "phyisical" thing that the Suns have seen in this series.

[ATXSPUR]

Obivously, there is much opinion regarding this hot topic. As a Spurs fan, I am dissapointed in Horry's hard foul tonight. However, I honestly believe that many individuals are making it alot worse then what it really was. He did not swing at Nash. He simply leaned his shoulder into Nash and Nash went flying. I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was. Again, that don't excuse Horry's actions. He started everything and should be punished. I am trying to be fair even though I am a Spurs fan. This is what I think should happen...

Robert Horry, suspended for the remainder of the series

Amare and Diaw, suspended for one game. They both stepped on the court. If Amare would have stayed on the black part of the court while "checking in, " he would have been excused. However, he didn't.

Bell, fined by the league. Some say that he threw an elbow at Horry first...If he did, he deserves to be suspended as well. However, I did not see this and I am going by what I saw.

Nash, fined by the league. He did get up and go after Horry.

Any other Spurs player that left the bench deserves a one game suspension as well.

This is what I think should happen. Obviously, the Suns don't get much help. However, these players violated different rules and deserve to be punished. Again, I am trying to be fair about everything and I believe this is fair. The NBA has to do something about this series cause it's getting out of hand...

More sense in one post than the accumulated sense of all the suns and mavs trolls in this thread combined.

[SpursFanFirst]

Is it just me or does it seem like Spurs fans are hiding behind the "letter of the law" argument because they're scared to see the Suns at full-strength in Game 5?

Do you fail to realize the disappointment that would be Game 5 to rob two key players of their chance to sit on the bench because they walked out of the bench area?

It's weak to think that their actions are worse than Horry's... who also threw the elbow at Raja Bell, while Bell got a tech.

This argument has already been made...
But honestly, for me, it's not about being "scared" to play the Suns next game. I have faith in the Spurs team, in Duncan, Manu, etc...
For me, what it comes down to is the rules. As I said earlier tonight, I watched many Pacers players get suspended for MANY games because of this rule. And some of those players were trying to break the fight up...but, rules were rules, and they were suspended.
As Kenny said on Inside earlier, if you start making exceptions now, where do you draw the line?
With the NBA trying so hard to change its image, bending the rules will certainly NOT help them.

[RonMexico]

I guess your team has been scared this entire series and they've had video sent to the league to review in order to have one of our players suspended. Get the fuck out of here.

Good God - you shut the fuck up. How many more times do I have to hear about Manu's eye?? Jesus Christ, he was whacked across the face unintentionally and you guys act like Marion should be crucified.

But it's ok to slam a player into the boards or knee him in the groin... cool. I guess Tim Duncan and Tony Parker don't ever travel either...

[ploto]

HUH??
Where does the rule specifically say a player has to be suspended for stepping onto the court? To claim that it is an open and shut case, you need to site the actual rule. As stated above, the rules posted so far all say you have to stay in the vicinity of the bench. These guys never even got near halfcourt.

[TheReckoning]

I do. We had to play half the game with Duncan on the bench tonight due to bullshit calls on TD. Payback's a bitch.

I think your mistaken, that was the Suns payback for game 3 when they had to play half the game with Stoudemire on the bench due to bullshit calls on AS. Your right though Payback was a bitch.

[DarrinS]

dude this whole thread is about the spurs "just wanting whats fair" in suspending diaw and amare, regardless of the fact that they didnt do anything.. and that horrys flagrent was nothing but a "nice hard foul"

own the fuck up homers.


Don't worry. I'm sure your pussy coach will be calling for Horry's early retirement.


BTW, .... I don't think any suspensions are called for. But, then again, i'm a fan of a "dirty" team.

[ponky]

I want to see a full strength game, but if Horry is suspended for breaking a rule then so should Amare and Diaw (btw - Amare went farther on the court than Diaw and was more aggressive before his coaches wrangled him). Do you think Horry should not be suspended?

It's the mother fucking principle of the matter.

just curious, hinrich too right?

[SpursFan0728]

diaw yes, amare no...besides, why do you guys care so much if amare plays? you really want to win a game that way? why ruin a great series?
did u wish baron davids didn't play for 1 game in the mavs-warriros series?
yes
cos he raped your mavs
:clap

[Amarelooms]

Obivously, there is much opinion regarding this hot topic. As a Spurs fan, I am dissapointed in Horry's hard foul tonight. However, I honestly believe that many individuals are making it alot worse then what it really was. He did not swing at Nash. He simply leaned his shoulder into Nash and Nash went flying. I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was. Again, that don't excuse Horry's actions. He started everything and should be punished. I am trying to be fair even though I am a Spurs fan. This is what I think should happen...

Robert Horry, suspended for the remainder of the series

Amare and Diaw, suspended for one game. They both stepped on the court. If Amare would have stayed on the black part of the court while "checking in, " he would have been excused. However, he didn't.

Bell, fined by the league. Some say that he threw an elbow at Horry first...If he did, he deserves to be suspended as well. However, I did not see this and I am going by what I saw.

Nash, fined by the league. He did get up and go after Horry.

Any other Spurs player that left the bench deserves a one game suspension as well.

This is what I think should happen. Obviously, the Suns don't get much help. However, these players violated different rules and deserve to be punished. Again, I am trying to be fair about everything and I believe this is fair. The NBA has to do something about this series cause it's getting out of hand...

I agree this is likely what will happen. Come down hard on Horry and Amare/Diaw gone for one game. Expect the refs to also give the Suns all the calls the rest of the series :elephant

[gtownspur]

Whatever happens between Horry diaw and Amore.

I assure one thing..,,......................................... .........................,,,





mavfan is still gay.

[Kevin Blackistone]

I don't want to see any suspensions for the Suns. The Spurs don't deserve a break.

The Spurs played like b1tches and now deserve to be forced to climb uphill to salvage this series.

The Spurs don't deserve a break, but it's not about the Spurs. The only thing about the Spurs in this is whether or not Robert Horry deserves a suspension. According to NBA rules - the answer is yes.

The question about the Suns is whether Amare, Diaw, and Bell deserve suspensions. According to NBA rule the answer is yes.

You can't judge laws and rules based on feeling. Horry fucked up, and deserves to sit a game due to the rules. Three Suns fucked up, and deserve to sit a game due to the rules. I can't see why so many people here think the law or rules are arbitrary to "feelings".

[Amarelooms]

This argument has already been made...
But honestly, for me, it's not about being "scared" to play the Suns next game. I have faith in the Spurs team, in Duncan, Manu, etc...
For me, what it comes down to is the rules. As I said earlier tonight, I watched many Pacers players get suspended for MANY games because of this rule. And some of those players were trying to break the fight up...but, rules were rules, and they were suspended.
As Kenny said on Inside earlier, if you start making exceptions now, where do you draw the line?
With the NBA trying so hard to change its image, bending the rules will certainly NOT help them.

You are scared and should be...if not for Nash sitting out the final min of the 1st game it might be 3-1. YOu lost HCA now and if both teams play at full strength the edge goes to the Suns...Spurs need all the help they can get :elephant

[SpursFanFirst]

Horry didn't just "break a rule." He nearly broke Steve Nash. Go back to writing your column about the 3-1 Bulls tomorrow, Kevin before you ruin this thread anymore.

You have to think that Stern and the boys upstairs will be looking at the context of the event and determine that both those guys' main intent was probably to attend to their MVP lying on the ground.

Besides, if they do that, they always have the power to change the rules in June.


:lmao OK, I'm sorry, but that is FUNNY!!!!!
I am in NO way advocating what Horry did...in fact, I'm completely disgusted by the whole thing for so many reasons...
BUT...he did not almost BREAK Nash! :lol
It was hard, yes...but for crying out loud, once Nash fell, the flop that followed was so outlandish, it was funny...
And I saw the interview after the game with Nash, and he hardly looked like a man who was almost broken.
That's just funny

[RonMexico]

I saw it the way I said it. It wasn't the throat, it was the chest and then glanced upwards. Who fucking cares anyway? Both threw intentional shots and both need to be suspended.

Bell never threw a shot and I've seen this place from multiple angles. He got a tech, but he didn't throw an elbow or anything.

I love that when the officials enforced such rules as hand-checking, elbowing players in the chest, traveling violations, over the back fouls, blocking fouls that are just flops in disguise, and moving screens, that means they were just "giving the Suns the game."

But hey, "Rules are rules" except when they apply to Tim Duncan, Fabricio Oberto, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, and Manu Ginobili.

[Kevin Blackistone]

just curious, hinrich too right?

What did hinrich do? If he did something that according to NBA rules warrants a suspension then he should sit too. It's simple.

[dbreiden83080]

Where does the rule specifically say a player has to be suspended for stepping onto the court? To claim that it is an open and shut case, you need to site the actual rule. As stated above, the rules posted so far all say you have to stay in the vicinity of the bench. These guys never even got near halfcourt.

It says clearly if you are on the court during an altercation you are suspended PERIOD. Look at the Knicks in 97 Ewing had a foot on the court and he was gone the next game. Do some research next time, Amare was on the court and so was Boris by the law they are gone for game 5.

[ATXSPUR]

The Spurs don't deserve a break, but it's not about the Spurs. The only thing about the Spurs in this is whether or not Robert Horry deserves a suspension. According to NBA rules - the answer is yes.

The question about the Suns is whether Amare, Diaw, and Bell deserve suspensions. According to NBA rule the answer is yes.

You can't judge laws and rules based on feeling. Horry fucked up, and deserves to sit a game due to the rules. Three Suns fucked up, and deserve to sit a game due to the rules. I can't see why so many people here think the law or rules are arbitrary to "feelings".

case closed....rules are rules are rules

[Gerryatrics]

After watching it again several hundred times (only a slight exaggeration), I'm not so sure Amare and Diaw are going to be suspended. Diaw barely steps on to the court at all, Stoudemire is on the court but is walking around a couple of people and neither one of them get very far. Both were arguably in the vicinity of the bench, and neither was involved in the altercation, so I guess it comes down to how strict the league wants to be.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Bell never threw a shot and I've seen this place from multiple angles. He got a tech, but he didn't throw an elbow or anything.

I love that when the officials enforced such rules as hand-checking, elbowing players in the chest, traveling violations, over the back fouls, blocking fouls that are just flops in disguise, and moving screens, that means they were just "giving the Suns the game."

But hey, "Rules are rules" except when they apply to Tim Duncan, Fabricio Oberto, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, and Manu Ginobili.

When did I ever say that? I said anyone who breaks the rules has to get the punishment. If the roles were reversed and TD left the bench - the NBA would have to suspend him too. It's no different, and I never said it was. You're just a pissed Suns homer who knows his team fucked up but still wants them to get away with it.

[Amarelooms]

All this really makes no diff. If the Suns players get suspened for game 5 and lose that game...the Suns will likely win game 6 due to emotion and help from the league. Thus it all comes down to a game 7 in Phoenix..

[ATXSPUR]

Bell never threw a shot and I've seen this place from multiple angles. He got a tech, but he didn't throw an elbow or anything.

I love that when the officials enforced such rules as hand-checking, elbowing players in the chest, traveling violations, over the back fouls, blocking fouls that are just flops in disguise, and moving screens, that means they were just "giving the Suns the game."

But hey, "Rules are rules" except when they apply to Tim Duncan, Fabricio Oberto, Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen, and Manu Ginobili.

Talk about a homer....whatever fucking Spurs broke a rule I hope sits. Whatever fucking sun broke a rule I hope sits. ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!

[dbreiden83080]

After watching it again several hundred times (only a slight exaggeration), I'm not so sure Amare and Diaw are going to be suspended. Diaw barely steps on to the court at all, Stoudemire is on the court but is walking around a couple of people and neither one of them get very far. Both were arguably in the vicinity of the bench, and neither was involved in the altercation, so I guess it comes down to how strict the league wants to be.

They could be an inch on the court and they are gone the next game the distance means nothing, you can't be on the court at all and they both were.

[sunsbum]

Talk about a homer....whatever fucking Spurs broke a rule I hope sits. Whatever fucking sun broke a rule I hope sits. ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!

of course youd say that, and i would say the same thing if it was eric piatkowski vs duncan and finley.

ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!

[ponky]

did u wish baron davids didn't play for 1 game in the mavs-warriros series?
yes
cos he raped your mavs
:clap

try to focus on the series, i know it's hard seeing as how some spurs fans continue to be obsessed with all things mavs related. why would davis have been suspended? he did nothing to warrant a suspension. see, the problem with treating me like some typical dallas area mavs fan is that i'm not...i don't live in dallas, i'm not a homer, i'm not above bashing my team for their poor play and i don't wish harm/suspensions/injuries on other players just so my team can get a leg up.

for me, i want to see a really good series and this is a really good series. it won't be a good series if the league hands out all these suspensions. it can still be a very good series without diaw and horry but without amare? hell no, that's fag b.s.

[SpursFanFirst]

Obivously, there is much opinion regarding this hot topic. As a Spurs fan, I am dissapointed in Horry's hard foul tonight. However, I honestly believe that many individuals are making it alot worse then what it really was. He did not swing at Nash. He simply leaned his shoulder into Nash and Nash went flying. I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was. Again, that don't excuse Horry's actions. He started everything and should be punished. I am trying to be fair even though I am a Spurs fan. This is what I think should happen...

Robert Horry, suspended for the remainder of the series

Amare and Diaw, suspended for one game. They both stepped on the court. If Amare would have stayed on the black part of the court while "checking in, " he would have been excused. However, he didn't.

Bell, fined by the league. Some say that he threw an elbow at Horry first...If he did, he deserves to be suspended as well. However, I did not see this and I am going by what I saw.

Nash, fined by the league. He did get up and go after Horry.

Any other Spurs player that left the bench deserves a one game suspension as well.

This is what I think should happen. Obviously, the Suns don't get much help. However, these players violated different rules and deserve to be punished. Again, I am trying to be fair about everything and I believe this is fair. The NBA has to do something about this series cause it's getting out of hand...

Isn't that a little harsh, especially when you've just said...
"I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was."
One game, yes...but the remainder of the series?

Diaw and Stoudemire, I agree with.

Bell, I'm not sure. I don't know about the altercation with Horry, but I think someone mentioned him throwing a punch somewhere in the game. If that's correct, then he should be suspended for a game.

And Nash? I still don't understand the fine. Someone else mentioned this too, but since he was stopped from going after Horry, and therefore wasn't successful in his "attack" I don't think he should be fined. Hm...but maybe the goal is to stop him before he attacks next time? I don't know. I really don't where he's concerned.

[dbreiden83080]

All this really makes no diff. If the Suns players get suspened for game 5 and lose that game...the Suns will likely win game 6 due to emotion and help from the league. Thus it all comes down to a game 7 in Phoenix..

Spurs lost this game tonight Suns did not win it. If Amare and Diaw are gone for game 5 and the Spurs win it they will not make the same mistake again and they will end it in 6 at home.

[Amarelooms]

Talk about a homer....whatever fucking Spurs broke a rule I hope sits. Whatever fucking sun broke a rule I hope sits. ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!

You are only saying that cause you know that Amare and Diaw were on the court and likely no camera caught the Spurs bench. If the shoe was on the other foot you'd be saying that no suspensions are warranted. STOP BEING HOMERS and the acting like you're not....truly sad :elephant

[Gino20]

After watching it again several hundred times (only a slight exaggeration), I'm not so sure Amare and Diaw are going to be suspended. Diaw barely steps on to the court at all, Stoudemire is on the court but is walking around a couple of people and neither one of them get very far. Both were arguably in the vicinity of the bench, and neither was involved in the altercation, so I guess it comes down to how strict the league wants to be.

The problem hear is that they were both on the court during the altercation and it don't matter how far they got. The league is really strict on this crap. It needs to be cleared up after the season....

[Trainwreck2100]

of course youd say that, and i would say the same thing if it was eric piatkowski vs duncan and finley.

ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!


Here's the thing, Horry didn't go after Amare or Diaw, they moved when they should have stayed put, ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!! They fucked up royally.

[Amarelooms]

Spurs lost this game tonight Suns did not win it. If Amare and Diaw are gone for game 5 and the Spurs win it they will not make the same mistake again and they will end it in 6 at home.

Yeah ok cause you say so..league will not let a technicality det this series....refs will not give the Spurs any calls in game 6...it will go 7 regardless. Only team that might win in 6 is the Suns :elephant

[Tanya]

I have to say, Horry is a very smart person.
The spurs is gonna lose him who comes off the bench but the suns is gonna lose their starters.
Smart move Horry.

[ponky]

Talk about a homer....whatever fucking Spurs broke a rule I hope sits. Whatever fucking sun broke a rule I hope sits. ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!


it's not the rule, dumbass...show me....jesus, you'd think by now that dumbass fans would know better than to try to figure out stu jackson and stern when it comes to handing down these suspensions/fines etc. there is no built-in rule and as we've seen in the past, the league hasn't necessarily been totally consistent with their *rulings*...see the difference, "R-U-L-E".... "R-U-L-I-N-G-S" repeat after me....

[Gerryatrics]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, probably has, but just to remind people.


During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000. The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game. A team must have a minimum of eight players dressed and ready to play in every game. If five or more players leave the bench, the players will serve their suspensions alphabetically, according to the first letters of their last name. If seven bench players are suspended (assuming no participants are included), four of them would be suspended for the first game following the altercation. The remaining three would be suspended for the second game following the altercation.

[Amarelooms]

Isn't that a little harsh, especially when you've just said...
"I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was."
One game, yes...but the remainder of the series?

Diaw and Stoudemire, I agree with.

Bell, I'm not sure. I don't know about the altercation with Horry, but I think someone mentioned him throwing a punch somewhere in the game. If that's correct, then he should be suspended for a game.

And Nash? I still don't understand the fine. Someone else mentioned this too, but since he was stopped from going after Horry, and therefore wasn't successful in his "attack" I don't think he should be fined. Hm...but maybe the goal is to stop him before he attacks next time? I don't know. I really don't where he's concerned.

You have no idea what you;re talking about. Horry is gone for a min of 2 games without a doubt. Bell did nothing wrong. :elephant

[sunsbum]

Here's the thing, Horry didn't go after Amare or Diaw, they moved when they should have stayed put, ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!! They fucked up royally.

yea the sure did fuck up didnt they. i cant believe those fuckers reacted to such a weeny hit on some scrub...who is that white guy anyways?

but yet bowen can sweep kick amare and knee that white guy in the bizalls and all he gets is a flagrent.. please.

[ATXSPUR]

of course youd say that, and i would say the same thing if it was eric piatkowski vs duncan and finley.

ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE!!!

Rules are rules! Its not my fault your better players fucked up. Own up and admit they fucked up. We admit Horry fucked up.

[Kevin Blackistone]

try to focus on the series, i know it's hard seeing as how some spurs fans continue to be obsessed with all things mavs related. why would davis have been suspended? he did nothing to warrant a suspension. see, the problem with treating me like some typical dallas area mavs fan is that i'm not...i don't live in dallas, i'm not a homer, i'm not above bashing my team for their poor play and i don't wish harm/suspensions/injuries on other players just so my team can get a leg up.

for me, i want to see a really good series and this is a really good series. it won't be a good series if the league hands out all these suspensions. it can still be a very good series without diaw and horry but without amare? hell no, that's fag b.s.

The rules are not in place only to ensure that you get to see a good series. The rules are in place to make sure the game is played on an even playing field and that no one gets killed. Rules and laws are not arbitrary to feelings. If that happens anarchy results. Follow the rules and follow the laws or pay the price. It's what keeps society in check.

[Gino20]

Isn't that a little harsh, especially when you've just said...
"I think Nash's small size makes the foul look much harder then it really was."
One game, yes...but the remainder of the series?

Diaw and Stoudemire, I agree with.

Bell, I'm not sure. I don't know about the altercation with Horry, but I think someone mentioned him throwing a punch somewhere in the game. If that's correct, then he should be suspended for a game.

And Nash? I still don't understand the fine. Someone else mentioned this too, but since he was stopped from going after Horry, and therefore wasn't successful in his "attack" I don't think he should be fined. Hm...but maybe the goal is to stop him before he attacks next time? I don't know. I really don't where he's concerned.

Maybe I was tough on Horry. I guess I just based it on the fact that he started everything. I am reflecting back to the brawl at the Palace (even though I realize they were different situations).

As for Nash, I thought I saw him give a small push to Horry. However, I maybe wrong...

[SpursFan0728]

try to focus on the series, i know it's hard seeing as how some spurs fans continue to be obsessed with all things mavs related. why would davis have been suspended? he did nothing to warrant a suspension. see, the problem with treating me like some typical dallas area mavs fan is that i'm not...i don't live in dallas, i'm not a homer, i'm not above bashing my team for their poor play and i don't wish harm/suspensions/injuries on other players just so my team can get a leg up.

for me, i want to see a really good series and this is a really good series. it won't be a good series if the league hands out all these suspensions. it can still be a very good series without diaw and horry but without amare? hell no, that's fag b.s.
If Amare did step on the court then he derserve to be suspended
who gives a shit if you want to watch a good series

[x_roux_x]

Manny -

Fine, don't suspend either one. But suspend Raja, he had two elbows (one to Oberto, one to Horry in retaliation) that were just as bad as what Horry did.

Fair?

I know....No one saw that elbow to oberto? And then later the shove with his forearm? Look Horry fucked up plain and simple....But also nash sold that like a used gun to a street thug....semi flop there...but the foul was hard and it was wrong....I really dont believe Horry was really frustrated or intending to hurt anyone...I think he intended to give a hard foul toward the end of the game...but he should be suspended either way....Now as for Amare and Diaw as many have also stated to be fair with the letter of the law they must suspend them....it has happened to many players in many situations...this one is no different...Everyone says Horry started it so there should be no suspensions other then his...has that ever been the case in the NBA?....that is no excuse for other players to get involved physically which it was apparent both diaw and amare wanted to do(they were not fucking walking to the damn score table and that is evident no matter what u suns fuckers say)..again like someone else said earlier, Wheres the logic in that? For something shitty like that to happen players must make it worse? Nope...u get up, live with what the league will do...end of story no complaining...and fuck it...It is unfair but thats the rules....I dont really care if they get suspended or not...I still say san antonio in game 5....no worries to me....we lost horry not duncan for christ sakes...but lets see how all this pans out...but I for one am tired of being at the end of ridicule when the spurs are the team taking the brunt of the cheap shots...not giving them all. Finally we give one..And no one wants any suspensions and no one wanteds this to happen but it did and "dem da breaks kid"...it fucking happened and if there is any right or wrong with this league left all who broke the rules will be punished accordingly....just like every other team and players in a similar situation. Whatever the league sets in motion just fuck it...no bitching no complaining..its the way it is....Fuck all the haters.... :spin

[monosylab1k]

I guess this whole thing proves that it's better to be an asshole than an idiot.

[ATXSPUR]

You are only saying that cause you know that Amare and Diaw were on the court and likely no camera caught the Spurs bench. If the shoe was on the other foot you'd be saying that no suspensions are warranted. STOP BEING HOMERS and the acting like you're not....truly sad :elephant

Why should the suns get a by? Just because their better players fucked up?? Thats like Duncan punching somebody in the neck and us saying "But he's our best player so you cant take him away"

Whoever messes up sits. End of story.

[Kevin Blackistone]

yea the sure did fuck up didnt they. i cant believe those fuckers reacted to such a weeny hit on some scrub...who is that white guy anyways?

but yet bowen can sweep kick amare and knee that white guy in the bizalls and all he gets is a flagrent.. please.
:lol So you want rules and laws to be arbitrary to feelings? Let's see - what if a judge somewhere decides that he doesn't like you and feels you don't deserve to live. Should you then be executed for a parking violation? Just because it was deemed you were an asshole and didn't deserve to live?

That's exactly the kind of shit you are rallying behind. You want the league to bend the rules because it's the Suns and they are your team.

[ponky]

If Amare did step on the court then he derserve to be suspended
who gives a shit if you want to watch a good series


oh well, fuck me then...i bet the league cares about a good series in what has been an otherwise terrible playoffs for the nba with all these five and done series

amare will be fine, so i guess, fuck you too, WHINER

[sunsbum]

Rules are rules! Its not my fault your better players fucked up. Own up and admit they fucked up. We admit Horry fucked up.


eh, im happy...you guys dominated us and we still managed to come away tied 2-2. bad choke job.

[Purple & Gold]

Stupid move by Horry, but I've seen way worse. Nash definitely embellished it and sold it pretty good. Funny thing is that if he wouldn't have sold it so good his teammates probably wouldn't have jumped up to his defense. Seems like embellishing it turned out to be a very bad move.

[SpursFanFirst]

You are scared and should be...if not for Nash sitting out the final min of the 1st game it might be 3-1. YOu lost HCA now and if both teams play at full strength the edge goes to the Suns...Spurs need all the help they can get :elephant

I really hate that argument because you don't know what would've happened.
If, if, if...
When you make arguments like this, you're making an opening for people to say "if the refs didn't screw my team" or "if the refs didn't help the suns, the spurs would've won..."
"If Horry wouldn't have made such a boneheaded move..."

It goes on and on.

[mexispur]

the guys on inside are right if they dont suspend these guys then how the hell is the leauge going to enforce the rule next time this happens

[Amarelooms]

Why should the suns get a by? Just because their better players fucked up?? Thats like Duncan punching somebody in the neck and us saying "But he's our best player so you cant take him away"

Whoever messes up sits. End of story.

Not saying they should I'm saying the following things:

1. Horry is gone for 2-3 games
2. Diaw (who sucks btw) and Amare are gone for 1 game
3. If Spurs win game 5 they will lose game 6

Now carry on with your homer takes :elephant

[ATXSPUR]

eh, im happy...you guys dominated us and we still managed to come away tied 2-2. bad choke job.

we will see just how long you're happy. BACK TO YOUR LAIR TROLL!!!!!!!

[Kevin Blackistone]

I guess this whole thing proves that it's better to be an asshole than an idiot.

I'd say so, yes. A smart asshole has a much better chance at survival than a nice idiot. But luckily, these aren't the only two options. You can be nice and smart.

[mikekim]

haha...I love how the arena guys cranked up "ya'll ready for this" after horry's foul and the altercations and free throws...

It just provided very humorous background music for the repeated replays of the incident...

that song should be the official song of the spurs...i wouldn't be surprised if it replaces the national anthem before games in the at&t center someday

[Trainwreck2100]

yea the sure did fuck up didnt they. i cant believe those fuckers reacted to such a weeny hit on some scrub...who is that white guy anyways?

but yet bowen can sweep kick amare and knee that white guy in the bizalls and all he gets is a flagrent.. please.


That rule is put there so the bench can't react at all. Those two knew that it was fucking stupid to go out there.

[Amarelooms]

I really hate that argument because you don't know what would've happened.
If, if, if...
When you make arguments like this, you're making an opening for people to say "if the refs didn't screw my team" or "if the refs didn't help the suns, the spurs would've won..."
"If Horry wouldn't have made such a boneheaded move..."

It goes on and on.

HAHAH ok have Duncan or Parker sit out the final min of Game 5 if it's a one fg game then :elephant

[ponky]

all this back and forth bitching and yet, where's this RULE that spurs fans are running to hide behind? SHOW ME THE RULE and i'll gladly recant. don't bother to whine some more until you show me the rule. you have got to be a freakin' moron if you haven't noticed the inconsistencies in stern/stu rulings...sigh, once again, rule, rulings, repeat after me, rule, rulings....there IS a difference in meaning between those two words

[Jelly]

:lmao OK, I'm sorry, but that is FUNNY!!!!!
I am in NO way advocating what Horry did...in fact, I'm completely disgusted by the whole thing for so many reasons...
BUT...he did not almost BREAK Nash! :lol
It was hard, yes...but for crying out loud, once Nash fell, the flop that followed was so outlandish, it was funny...
And I saw the interview after the game with Nash, and he hardly looked like a man who was almost broken.
That's just funny

actually, according to another poster, poor Steve Nash was "mauled". :lmao

[SpursFanFirst]

You have no idea what you;re talking about. Horry is gone for a min of 2 games without a doubt. Bell did nothing wrong. :elephant

That was my point about Bell...I DON'T know...Someone mentioned him throwing a punch earlier in this thread, and I was asking...ASKING.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Not saying they should I'm saying the following things:

1. Horry is gone for 2-3 games
2. Diaw (who sucks btw) and Amare are gone for 1 game
3. If Spurs win game 5 they will lose game 6

Now carry on with your homer takes :elephant

Why is Horry gone for 2 - 3 games? The NBA rules state a one game suspension is warranted for his actions. Why should he get more? Because his actions goaded two dumb asses to fuck their team over? :lol

[ATXSPUR]

Not saying they should I'm saying the following things:

1. Horry is gone for 2-3 games
2. Diaw (who sucks btw) and Amare are gone for 1 game
3. If Spurs win game 5 they will lose game 6

Now carry on with your homer takes :elephant

I am being logical. Rules are rules. It is not my fault the written rule does not favor the suns this time.

[ploto]

It says clearly if you are on the court during an altercation you are suspended PERIOD. Look at the Knicks in 97 Ewing had a foot on the court and he was gone the next game. Do some research next time, Amare was on the court and so was Boris by the law they are gone for game 5.
Do your own research-- it does not say that no matter how hard you try to claim it does--


During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench.

I did not see any player not in the vicinty of their respective benches.

[Amarelooms]

all this back and forth bitching and yet, where's this RULE that spurs fans are running to hide behind? SHOW ME THE RULE and i'll gladly recant. don't bother to whine some more until you show me the rule. you have got to be a freakin' moron if you haven't noticed the inconsistencies in stern/stu rulings...sigh, once again, rule, rulings, repeat after me, rule, rulings....there IS a difference in meaning between those two words

What are you wearing...for the 2nd time :elephant

[SpursFan0728]

Not saying they should I'm saying the following things:

1. Horry is gone for 2-3 games
2. Diaw (who sucks btw) and Amare are gone for 1 game
3. If Spurs win game 5 they will lose game 6

Now carry on with your homer takes :elephant
Why will spurs lose game 6?
i don't trust mavs fans predictions
they thot they will beat warriors in 5

[ATXSPUR]

all this back and forth bitching and yet, where's this RULE that spurs fans are running to hide behind? SHOW ME THE RULE and i'll gladly recant. don't bother to whine some more until you show me the rule. you have got to be a freakin' moron if you haven't noticed the inconsistencies in stern/stu rulings...sigh, once again, rule, rulings, repeat after me, rule, rulings....there IS a difference in meaning between those two words

Why are you still camped out here? Shouldnt you still be crying over getting that a** spanked by gs?

[Kevin Blackistone]

all this back and forth bitching and yet, where's this RULE that spurs fans are running to hide behind? SHOW ME THE RULE and i'll gladly recant. don't bother to whine some more until you show me the rule. you have got to be a freakin' moron if you haven't noticed the inconsistencies in stern/stu rulings...sigh, once again, rule, rulings, repeat after me, rule, rulings....there IS a difference in meaning between those two words

The fact that NBA precedents have suspended players for merely stepping onto the court during an altercation is all the proof you need. The precedent has been upheld numerous times and the NBA would ruin their credibility to go against it.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Do your own research-- it does not say that no matter how hard you try to claim it does--


During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench.


The NBA's precedents have shown that a step on the court gets the suspension. They HAVE to uphold that or risk all credibility being lost.

[Amarelooms]

Why is Horry gone for 2 - 3 games? The NBA rules state a one game suspension is warranted for his actions. Why should he get more? Because his actions goaded two dumb asses to fuck their team over? :lol

Get back to me tomorrow then lol. League will justify it by 1 game for the check of Nash into the scorers table and 1 game for the elbow/half swing to the face of Bell. Also since they will suspend Amare and Diaw they will not want to encourage future cheap shots and give the team causing the incident the "advantage". Watch and see :elephant

[mikekim]

all this back and forth bitching and yet, where's this RULE that spurs fans are running to hide behind? SHOW ME THE RULE and i'll gladly recant. don't bother to whine some more until you show me the rule. you have got to be a freakin' moron if you haven't noticed the inconsistencies in stern/stu rulings...sigh, once again, rule, rulings, repeat after me, rule, rulings....there IS a difference in meaning between those two words

a member by the name of "Cherry" posted this in another thread (I haven't verified where she got it, but I think it's legit):

c. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the
immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of
one game and fined up to $50,000.
The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game.

[Gino20]

Do your own research-- it does not say that no matter how hard you try to claim it does--


During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench.

Ok, but isn't the vicinity clearly defined as the black part of the court at the At&T Center?

[SpursFanFirst]

HAHAH ok have Duncan or Parker sit out the final min of Game 5 if it's a one fg game then :elephant

What? So, you're saying that, in your infinite wisdom, had Nash stayed in that final minute, they'd have that game??? Interesting how you can know that. :rolleyes

[spursrocksocks]

Get back to me tomorrow then lol. League will justify it by 1 game for the check of Nash into the scorers table and 1 game for the elbow/half swing to the face of Bell. Also since they will suspend Amare and Diaw they will not want to encourage future cheap shots and give the team causing the incident the "advantage". Watch and see :elephant
I was thinking the same

[SpursFanFirst]

all this back and forth bitching and yet, where's this RULE that spurs fans are running to hide behind? SHOW ME THE RULE and i'll gladly recant. don't bother to whine some more until you show me the rule. you have got to be a freakin' moron if you haven't noticed the inconsistencies in stern/stu rulings...sigh, once again, rule, rulings, repeat after me, rule, rulings....there IS a difference in meaning between those two words

I think someone posted it a page or so back...and another person actually posted a whole block of rules way earlier in the thread. If I knew where exactly, I'd grab them for you...but, I don't.

[ATXSPUR]

Im getting tired of this back and forth...see you people in the morning.

This will be an interesting two days.

[Gino20]

So, do you think we will find out tomorrow morning? The suspense is killing me...

[spurspf]

The problem with the whole bench clearing thing is it should be put into context when determining suspensions. If the Suns players went to the fracas, re, to Horry/Raja, then alright, maybe a suspension for Diaw. If they ran over to Nash, they shouldn't be suspended for that...I have yet to watch the replay so I don't remember where they went. As for that little bitch, Horry, he definitely should be suspended not so much for the foul, but for the b.s. afterwards. It's alright to foul hard but he's such a bitch that he couldn't even go over to Nash after the foul and help him up. Nash went over to Parker when they collided, don't expect the same from a sorry bitch like Horry.

what does Zero tolerance have to do with context?

[ploto]

The fact that NBA precedents have suspended players for merely stepping onto the court during an altercation is all the proof you need. The precedent has been upheld numerous times and the NBA would ruin their credibility to go against it.
You can't claim it is the LETTER of the law and then claim precedents.

[Amarelooms]

So, do you think we will find out tomorrow morning? The suspense is killing me...

late tomorrow afternoon likely :elephant

[pad300]

Rosen's Take:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6812256

"Say goodbye, Rob. See you in Game 6.

...


However, roused by Horry's cheap shot, both Boris Diaw and Stoudemire clearly left their bench with angry intent and tread the wrong side of the no-no line.

The next move is Stu Jackson's. If he fails to suspend Diaw and Stoudemire for Game 5, then he'll totally bankrupt the stay-at-home rule.

Is the rule bogus? Maybe yes, and maybe no. But it is the rule. Any bench player who sets foot on the court during a fight is automatically banished for the next game. Until, and if, the rule is changed it must be enforced as is.

So it could very well be (and should be) that Horry, Diaw, and Stoudemire will all be watching Game 5 on TV."

[x_roux_x]

If the Spurs actually benefit from a classless play by Horry which started the whole thing then the Suns should put in their 12th man and telling him to do his best to injure one of the Spurs top 3 players (punch, elbow, whatever)...if you gonna play dirty all is fair :elephant

That is a very retarded comment...oh wait ur a mavs fan...Nvm..Im sorry....I try not to pick on the handicapped

[SA210]

Whatever happens between Horry diaw and Amore.

I assure one thing..,,......................................... .........................,,,





mavfan is still gay.
:lmao

I don't know how in the hell AHF and I agree on almost EVERYTHING basketball, and disagree on EVERYTHING in politics.

:smokin

[kps0001]

..Stu Jackson regarding another alterction


Our rule regarding an automatic suspension for players leaving the bench was not intended to apply in a highly unusual situation like this one, where an altercation occurs in an access tunnel or hallway,'' NBA vice president Stu Jackson said. "In this circumstance, our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/1028/1452258.html

[dbreiden83080]

You can't claim it is the LETTER of the law and then claim precedents.

Yes he can there are too many examples of this for the league to just pretend like the Suns are special and not do anything to them.

[SpursFanFirst]

"Our rule regarding an automatic suspension for players leaving the bench was not intended to apply in a highly unusual situation like this one, where an altercation occurs in an access tunnel or hallway,'' NBA vice president Stu Jackson said. "In this circumstance, our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

I don't see your point...this wasn't in a hallway or tunnel.

[bobbyjoe]

Ok, but isn't the vicinity clearly defined as the black part of the court at the At&T Center?

Vicinity is a word that (if this indeed is accurate) can be loosely interpreted. It's not hard and fast. This is what lawyer's do to leave themselves out's.

I would question though why Ewing was suspended if this was the case, but that was 10 yrs ago and it's hard to remember specifics.

It'd be smarter for the NBA to word it using "vicinity" instead of "leaving the bench" because then you get into the drivel about how if someone puts their toe one inch onto the court, they are suspended.

[bobbyjoe]

"Our rule regarding an automatic suspension for players leaving the bench was not intended to apply in a highly unusual situation like this one, where an altercation occurs in an access tunnel or hallway,'' NBA vice president Stu Jackson said. "In this circumstance, our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

I don't see your point...this wasn't in a hallway or tunnel.

The point is that there is precedent for the NBA looking past the exact verbage of the law.

According to one school of argument laid out here, the rule is interpreted by the NBA SO literally that even if Mahatma Gandhi was a Phoenix Sun and calmly walked form the bench onto the court to hold back his teammate from Horry, he'd be suspended for literally leaving the court, regardless of what his intentions are.

Stu's comments here prove that there is precedent for dancing around the rule a little bit and considering the context of bench departures. However, this incident could be interpreted either way and probably is not as shutdown a case as the Fox incident. Either way, bottom line? Ridiculous rule.

Regardless of who did what to whom, I think most will agree this rule is poorly conceived. Better ways of the NBA to try to contain brawls.

[Kermit]

i think it's pretty obvious to anyone that the two were running towards the ruckus in an attempt to escalate the situation.

[spurspf]

I guess this whole thing proves that it's better to be an asshole than an idiot.


or a shocker, o wait...

[Trainwreck2100]

The point is that there is precedent for the NBA looking past the exact verbage of the law.

According to one school of argument laid out here, the rule is interpreted by the NBA SO literally that even if Mahatma Gandhi was a Phoenix Sun and calmly walked form the bench onto the court to hold back his teammate from Horry, he'd be suspended for literally leaving the court, regardless of what his intentions are.

Stu's comments here prove that there is precedent for dancing around the rule a little bit and considering the context of bench departures. However, this incident could be interpreted either way and probably is not as shutdown a case as the Fox incident. Either way, bottom line? Ridiculous rule.

Regardless of who did what to whom, I think most will agree this rule is poorly conceived. Better ways of the NBA to try to contain brawls.


the reasoning behind that tunnel ruling was the the Kings didn't know who was fighting, for all they know a fan attacked their player.

[mikekim]

Vicinity is a word that (if this indeed is accurate) can be loosely interpreted. It's not hard and fast. This is what lawyer's do to leave themselves out's.

I would question though why Ewing was suspended if this was the case, but that was 10 yrs ago and it's hard to remember specifics.

It'd be smarter for the NBA to word it using "vicinity" instead of "leaving the bench" because then you get into the drivel about how if someone puts their toe one inch onto the court, they are suspended.

I understand what you're saying but:

c. During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the
immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of
one game and fined up to $50,000.
The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game.

And I still understand what you're saying even taking the above into account...but it does state "IMMEDIATE vicinity." Vicinity means "the area near or surrounding a particular place." Immediate means "nearEST or next to in space." Now you can take that last "next to" and still say it's somewhat vague, and you would be correct, I think. But the combination of the words put together in succession to say "immediate vicinity," I think, emphasizes that the NBA means "really, really close to or sitting on the bench."

[x_roux_x]

Horry Will Be Gone For 2 Games

1 game most likely

[x_roux_x]

You are a moron...why are some Spurs fans on here such homers lol. Marion was going for the ball and hit his eye/face...shit happens. Horry made no play on the ball what so ever and clearly was trying to injure. Game was over and really no need to foul in the first place. :elephant

It was a foul that needed to be made..just not in that manner...18 or so seconds left down by what.....4 or something....a foul needed to be made.,...he made it...it was just an ugly one...and I dont believe he was trying to really injure anyone...and fuck it if he was...im not making excuses but thats sports for ya...dont like it then watch American Idol...We know Dirk is...

[Spurs rock]

If they do get suspended, Spurs better fuckin' win! :lol

[x_roux_x]

Hey I saw Nash out of bounds with 18 seconds left in the game...I want the ball back!!!! :p:

[x_roux_x]

Cheap shot flopping pussys....taste ur own medicine... but it was uncalled for....:)

[johngateswhiteley]

i agree the Spurs fans are acting ridiculous...but what else is new. i for one am happy with where the Spurs are, 2 wins away from the conference finals, just gotta win once on the road...so what, no need to panic. game 5 should be fun and i expect the Spurs to win that one and then game 6 at home.

...the loss tonight was shocking, but if you believe the Spurs are the better team, there is no reason to think they can't win 2 of the next 3. some of you Spurs fans need to quite acting like a bunch of bitches and grow up. there is no reason the Suns should have anybody suspended for the next game; quit acting scared.

[Nash2STAT]

Cheap Shot Rob hip checks Steve Nash into the scorers table, then throws an elbow to the face of Raja Bell. Yet, some Spurs fans think Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw should be suspended for taking a couple of steps on the floor and did not touch a single Spurs player nor get anywhere near the "altercation". If you are someone who thinks this is what the ruling should be, and you claim to be a fan of basketball, I call you a liar.

I understand that both teams and their fans want to win this series and a championship, but if one has to degrade themselves to hoping for an injury to another teams player or for someone to be suspended on a technicality, they themselves have no dignity and no validity in my opinion.

I think the only player who should be suspended is Cheap Shot Bob, not because of his foul on Nash but because of the blatant, unprovocted, elbow he threw at Raja Bell. That was completely uncalled for, he just escalated his own brand of dirty basketball and should be held accountable.

[Trainwreck2100]

Cheap Shot Rob hip checks Steve Nash into the scorers table, then throws an elbow to the face of Raja Bell. Yet, some Spurs fans think Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw should be suspended for taking a couple of steps on the floor and did not touch a single Spurs player nor get anywhere near the "altercation". If you are someone who thinks this is what the ruling should be, and you claim to be a fan of basketball, I call you a liar.

I understand that both teams and their fans want to win this series and a championship, but if one has to degrade themselves to hoping for an injury to another teams player or for someone to be suspended on a technicality, they themselves have no dignity and no validity in my opinion.

I think the only player who should be suspended is Cheap Shot Bob, not because of his foul on Nash but because of the blatant, unprovocted, elbow he threw at Raja Bell. That was completely uncalled for, he just escalated his own brand of dirty basketball and should be held accountable.


Ewing got suspended for a toe over the line

[Kevin Blackistone]

Cheap Shot Rob hip checks Steve Nash into the scorers table, then throws an elbow to the face of Raja Bell. Yet, some Spurs fans think Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw should be suspended for taking a couple of steps on the floor and did not touch a single Spurs player nor get anywhere near the "altercation". If you are someone who thinks this is what the ruling should be, and you claim to be a fan of basketball, I call you a liar.

I understand that both teams and their fans want to win this series and a championship, but if one has to degrade themselves to hoping for an injury to another teams player or for someone to be suspended on a technicality, they themselves have no dignity and no validity in my opinion.

I think the only player who should be suspended is Cheap Shot Bob, not because of his foul on Nash but because of the blatant, unprovocted, elbow he threw at Raja Bell. That was completely uncalled for, he just escalated his own brand of dirty basketball and should be held accountable.

Talk to the NBA league office. They made the rule, not any fans. It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks, all that matters is that the NBA made the rule and have enforced it for much less than what Amare and Diaw did tonight. Take up your "I'll call you a LIAR!!!" bullshit with them.

[Obstructed_View]

Ewing got suspended for a toe over the line
They changed the wording of the rules after that event specifically to allow for judgment calls by the league.

[Nash2STAT]

Kobe Bryant was suspended for "accidentally" elbowing Manu Ginobili in the face yet Bruce Bowen wasn't for "accidentally" kneeing Steve Nash in the groin. What's your point?

[Obstructed_View]

"unprovocted"?

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe Bryant was suspended for "accidentally" elbowing Manu Ginobili in the face yet Bruce Bowen wasn't for "accidentally" kneeing Steve Nash in the groin. What's your point?
There's a specific rule about contact above the shoulders. What's your point?

[Kevin Blackistone]

They changed the wording of the rules after that event specifically to allow for judgment calls by the league.

That's another thing I think the NBA screws up with - they make their rules far too arbitrary. All that does is leave room for criticism, if they make a rule iron clad and give boundaries that will be penalized if passed (and state the penalty), then there's no room for questioning. I liked the original rule - if anyone is stupid enough to step on the court - even ONE INCH - then suspend their ass. Cut and dry with no wiggle room to worry about.

[Nash2STAT]

Talk to the NBA league office. They made the rule, not any fans. It doesn't matter what anyone here thinks, all that matters is that the NBA made the rule and have enforced it for much less than what Amare and Diaw did tonight. Take up your "I'll call you a LIAR!!!" bullshit with them.

Hey, if you claim to be a fan of the game and think these games should be decided by dirty, thug basketball, then yes, you are lying to yourself.

[Trainwreck2100]

Kobe Bryant was suspended for "accidentally" elbowing Manu Ginobili in the face yet Bruce Bowen wasn't for "accidentally" kneeing Steve Nash in the groin. What's your point?


One was ruled a basketball move, one was not. That has nothing to do with this though. The whole Ewing thing was the rule in question, that was my point. Diaw's gone so you should be spending your time praying for Amare, and not here.

[Trainwreck2100]

Hey, if you claim to be a fan of the game and think these games should be decided by dirty, thug basketball, then yes, you are lying to yourself.


It wouldn't have been. if the Suns players were smart and stayed put. But they didn't they fucked up.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Hey, if you claim to be a fan of the game and think these games should be decided by dirty, thug basketball, then yes, you are lying to yourself.

If you think that players shouldn't be held accountable for their actions when they know full well what their actions would bring - then you're a dumb ass. I never advocated thug basketball, I said what Horry did was wrong and he should be suspended. All I'm saying is that what Amare and Diaw did was also wrong according to NBA rules, and as such they should be punished. What do you not understand about that?

[Nash2STAT]

If this situation was flipped the other way I guarantee every Spurs fan would be singing a different tune. Yet, my opinion would stay the same, only the dirty player should suffer consequences in this situation. Win or lose, I want to see a fair game.

It sounds like some of you are looking for an easy way out. What, are you scared now?

[Trainwreck2100]

If this situation was flipped the other way I guarantee every Spurs fan would be singing a different tune. Yet, my opinion would stay the same, only the dirty player should suffer consequences in this situation. Win or lose, I want to see a fair game.

It sounds like some of you are looking for an easy way out. What, are you scared now?


If this situation was flipped you'd be singing a different tune, what's your point

[Obstructed_View]

If this situation were reversed I'd be singing the exact same tune.

[Nash2STAT]

Bullshit. I would have the same stance. If it was a Suns player who pulled the cheap shot and Tim Duncan took a few steps on the court, I would hope the let Tim Duncan play only because I would consider any victory without him tainted by the league.

[Trainwreck2100]

Bullshit. I would have the same stance. If it was a Suns player who pulled the cheap shot and Tim Duncan took a few steps on the court, I would hope the let Tim Duncan play only because I would consider any victory without him tainted by the league.

I've already gone on record and called this series tainted. It sucks that it has to go out that way but from here on out. If nobody gets suspended, people cry conspiracy. If everyone gets suspended people cry conspiracy.

[Obstructed_View]

Bullshit. I would have the same stance. If it was a Suns player who pulled the cheap shot and Tim Duncan took a few steps on the court, I would hope the let Tim Duncan play only because I would consider any victory without him tainted by the league.
Not a chance. If Tim Duncan was stupid enough to step onto the court, knowing the rules, he has to be suspended. It would be tainted if he got special treatment that other guys haven't gotten. The defense of Amare in this situation is that he's emotional and not very intelligent, a defense that Duncan would NEVER get. That's not particularly fair when you think about it.

[L.I.T]

You are a moron...why are some Spurs fans on here such homers lol. Marion was going for the ball and hit his eye/face...shit happens. Horry made no play on the ball what so ever and clearly was trying to injure. Game was over and really no need to foul in the first place. :elephant

And you're a fucking douche bag. I ain't being a homer you dipshit. Horry should be suspended and Amare and Diaw should be suspended for leaving the bench. It's the rules.

If you notice what I said "take out of context" it's because I know it was in the flow of the game, but by "taking it out of context" I can make it sound like whatever I want.

Reading comprehension.

[L.I.T]

Bullshit. I would have the same stance. If it was a Suns player who pulled the cheap shot and Tim Duncan took a few steps on the court, I would hope the let Tim Duncan play only because I would consider any victory without him tainted by the league.

And I for one wouldn't be. You play within the rules, you respect the rules. If you break them, for whatever reason, you still have to abide by them. If Duncan, Manu or Parker steps off the bench in an altercation they should be suspended.

Under the rules there are no homers.

[Nash2STAT]

Seriously, as a fan of basketball, how could someone really want to see anyone besides the player who made the dirty play suspended? It would be a severe injustice to the history of the NBA any other way. I know the Spurs players and some Spurs fans would agree with me

I don't think the series is tainted, yet. I think the NBA did the right thing by not acting on Bruce Bowen's actions from game 2 and game 3. This is a physical series, probably the 2 best teams left (Detroit has its own argument), one would have to be a fool to not expect this. I just wish their was a way for the officials/league to regulate the physicality of this series without getting someone suspended or injured.

[Kevin Blackistone]

Seriously, as a fan of basketball, how could someone really want to see anyone besides the player who made the dirty play suspended? It would be a severe injustice to the history of the NBA any other way. I know the Spurs players and some Spurs fans would agree with me

I don't think the series is tainted, yet. I think the NBA did the right thing by not acting on Bruce Bowen's actions from game 2 and game 3. This is a physical series, probably the 2 best teams left (Detroit has its own argument), one would have to be a fool to not expect this. I just wish their was a way for the officials/league to regulate the physicality of this series without getting someone suspended or injured.

Seriously, as a fan of civilization and not having to resort to barbary just for survival, how could someone really want any rules or laws to be completely thrown out the door just because it's going against their favored team? It would be a severe injustice to all players who were suspended for walking on the court during an altercation in the past if it goes any other way. I know any rational person who abides by the rules and regulations of our society would agree with me.

[Nash2STAT]

For the record, I think the NBA gives Cheap Shot Bob a game off and everyone else, including Stoudemire and Diaw, get only fines. I don't care about what has happened in the past with these types of situations, the NBA will be hammered in the media if they let a dirty play define their marque playoff series not involving the Finals.

The bottom line is that if the NBA does decide to suspend Stoudemire and Diaw all it proves is that a viable strategy to win a game is to take cheap shots and hope a star player for the other team steps a foot off the bench at some time. Sounds pretty absurd to me.

[Trainwreck2100]

I don't think the series is tainted, yet. I think the NBA did the right thing by not acting on Bruce Bowen's actions from game 2 and game 3. This is a physical series, probably the 2 best teams left (Detroit has its own argument), one would have to be a fool to not expect this. I just wish their was a way for the officials/league to regulate the physicality of this series without getting someone suspended or injured.


Bullshit, they broke the rules, and whatever happens happens, if they let this slide the next time a fight breaks out, and a player leaves the bench the minute they try t suspend them, they will cry foul that Amare got away with it. NBA can't afford to lose control like that.

[coachmac87]

look amare gets what he deserves...he started this whole "dirty" thing from the get go..and its funny how he is going to get suspended because of another stupid act on his part...suns fans can blame him for losing this series if they do lose...horry will get punished maybe 2games or one and a big fine...but amare got what he asked for...karma is a bitch

[Nash2STAT]

I give up, Spurs fans telling me they would want Tim Duncan suspended if the situation was flipped is the last straw. You're too deep in the forest to see the trees.

[coachmac87]

and he was supposed to save yalls season :lol

[johngateswhiteley]

I give up, Spurs fans telling me they would want Tim Duncan suspended if the situation was flipped is the last straw. You're too deep in the forest to see the trees.

i agree. Spurs fans are being ridiculous.

[Nash2STAT]

look amare gets what he deserves...he started this whole "dirty" thing from the get go..and its funny how he is going to get suspended because of another stupid act on his part...suns fans can blame him for losing this series if they do lose...horry will get punished maybe 2games or one and a big fine...but amare got what he asked for...karma is a bitch

Amare started the whole "dirty" thing when he was kicked by Bowen in the leg? You've lost me with that one. All this did was prove that some Spurs do make dirty plays. His point has been validated.

[Trainwreck2100]

For the record, I think the NBA gives Cheap Shot Bob a game off and everyone else, including Stoudemire and Diaw, get only fines. I don't care about what has happened in the past with these types of situations, the NBA will be hammered in the media if they let a dirty play define their marque playoff series not involving the Finals.




They cant just fine the player, when the rule specifically calls for a one game suspension. Fining them would be an assumption of guilt. And the rule says "when guilty suspend" Either they walk or they're gone, no gray area.


The bottom line is that if the NBA does decide to suspend Stoudemire and Diaw all it proves is that a viable strategy to win a game is to take cheap shots and hope a star player for the other team steps a foot off the bench at some time. Sounds pretty absurd to me.


Or when there is a fight, the players can just stay at the bench.

[coachmac87]

I give up, Spurs fans telling me they would want Tim Duncan suspended if the situation was flipped is the last straw. You're too deep in the forest to see the trees.


dont act like u would want the rule to live up to its saying if duncan was on the bench and walked on the court

[Kevin Blackistone]

For the record, I think the NBA gives Cheap Shot Bob a game off and everyone else, including Stoudemire and Diaw, get only fines. I don't care about what has happened in the past with these types of situations, the NBA will be hammered in the media if they let a dirty play define their marque playoff series not involving the Finals.

The bottom line is that if the NBA does decide to suspend Stoudemire and Diaw all it proves is that a viable strategy to win a game is to take cheap shots and hope a star player for the other team steps a foot off the bench at some time. Sounds pretty absurd to me.


The NBA should be shut down if they break their rules to allow Amare and Diaw to play when the rules state they should be suspended. The federal governement regulates all sporting events that are portrayed as fair sporting events (this is why professional wrestling had to come clean for being fixed), and as such should levy heavy sanctions against any fair sporting league who circumvents their rules and precedents to protect two players. It cheats the game and makes the game fixed.

[coachmac87]

Amare started the whole "dirty" thing when he was kicked by Bowen in the leg? You've lost me with that one. All this did was prove that some Spurs do make dirty plays. His point has been validated.


ya beacuse he called them out....he wanted it to be rough and he got it...hes a foulaholic anywayz... :drunk and just not a smart human being

[coachmac87]

The NBA should be shut down if they break their rules to allow Amare and Diaw to play when the rules state they should be suspended. The federal governement regulates all sporting events that are portrayed as fair sporting events (this is why professional wrestling had to come clean for being fixed), and as such should levy heavy sanctions against any fair sporting league who circumvents their rules and precedents to protect two players. It cheats the game and makes the game fixed.


best point of the night...just sucks to be a suns fan :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

At least suns fans stop saying Amare was holding people back.

[Obstructed_View]

I give up, Spurs fans telling me they would want Tim Duncan suspended if the situation was flipped is the last straw. You're too deep in the forest to see the trees.
Who said they would want him suspended? I said that he HAS TO BE suspended if he did that. What the Suns homers want is for the league to take Amare's history of an inability to control his emotions and a lack of understanding of situations to allow him to skate around what is a fairly clear rule. Duncan would have no such defense if he made the decision to step onto the court, and there would be no justification whatsoever for allowing him to avoid a suspension. As a Spurs fan, I'd be unhappy about it. I wasn't happy about Duncan turning the ball over or committing fouls, either.

I'm on the record saying I wish nobody could be suspended and that everyone could just play game five, but the league would have a legitimate credibibility problem if they did that.

Sorry I won't bend the rules for you. I've got a pretty extensive record on this board, and my views are relatively consistent.

[johngateswhiteley]

...i'm done. this thread is fucking stupid, most Spurs fans are acting like fucking cocksuckers. i'm with the Phoenix fans on this one.

[Vash01]

If they get suspended, it will send a message to the rest of the league that you can win by trying to injure a key player, and/or by inciting a fight and getting the players on the other team suspended. If Stoudemire and Biaw get suspended, some of the Spurs players should be suspended too, particularly Horry since he started the whole mess.

It will be best for the game if nobody is suspended. Let us just play the game.

[Phenomanul]

Amare started the whole "dirty" thing when he was kicked by Bowen in the leg? You've lost me with that one. All this did was prove that some Spurs do make dirty plays. His point has been validated.


He also called Manu dirty after pushing him to the ground.... the league didn't even consider Amare's gripe as legit. Go on and live in your delusional world where the Spurs players have somehow become this era's ''bad boys''...

Amare is a whiner...
D'Antoni is a whiner...

I've only seen some semblance of class out of Nash.

[Vash01]

.. but the league would have a legitimate credibibility problem if they did that.

Sorry I won't bend the rules for you. I've got a pretty extensive record on this board, and my views are relatively consistent.

Some common sense needs to be used in making the decision. There have been precedents of players not being suspended for leaving their bench. There is no bending of rules. It is just using a brain and common sense and a precedent.

[Obstructed_View]

Some common sense needs to be used in making the decision. There have been precedents of players not being suspended for leaving their bench. There is no bending of rules. It is just using a brain and common sense and a precedent.
It's true that the league worked some wiggle room into the rule after the Patrick Ewing incident. He stood up to see what was going on and had his toes over the line, if I remember correctly, and had to be suspended for "leaving the bench". They have since added the word "area" to allow for a guy to stand up, but it's been fairly clear that players are not to step on the court or to go toward the altercation.

It would be disingenuous of you to suggest that Amare was just standing up to see what was going on. If you want special treatment for your player, just admit it. I'd just as soon see him allowed to play, but that's because I want the Spurs to beat the Suns so their fans don't have any excuses for losing. I'll admit that my motivation is self-serving. Too bad some of you can't do the same.

[MannyIsGod]

Why the fuck would you want the Spurs to win over a Suns team at less than full strength? If the Spurs are good enough to beat the Suns then they can advance, but I don't want this bullshit suspensions to happen simply to make it easier. Thats a load of shit and taints everything.

Diaw and Amare didn't lose their cool and to say as much is fucking foolish. One player on that court lost his cool; Robert Horry.

[Buddy Holly]

Amare looked like he lost his cool. He was another to use a burst of steam to run out to the pull apart before the coaches stopped him.

[Obstructed_View]

Why the fuck would you want the Spurs to win over a Suns team at less than full strength? If the Spurs are good enough to beat the Suns then they can advance, but I don't want this bullshit suspensions to happen simply to make it easier. Thats a load of shit and taints everything.
Yep. Like I said elsewhere, I think Robert Horry just fucked the entire series, win or lose. A win is hollow. A loss is a disastrous choke. It's fine with me if the NBA wants to create a new precedent and just suspend Horry, but that's probably what they have to do in order for that to happen.

[MannyIsGod]

Horry deserves one game. That wasn't the hardest foul I've ever seen and the post foul stuff was mostly on Raja.

[Buddy Holly]

Yep. Like I said elsewhere, I think Robert Horry just fucked the entire series, win or lose. A win is hollow. A loss is a disastrous choke. It's fine with me if the NBA wants to create a new precedent and just suspend Horry, but that's probably what they have to do in order for that to happen.

So has we won last years WCSF, it would have been hollow because Terry was suspended?

GTFOOH.

[bobbyjoe]

Horry deserves one game. That wasn't the hardest foul I've ever seen and the post foul stuff was mostly on Raja.

Actually, the post foul stuff entailed Bell running towards Horry (who knows what he was saying) but Horry was the one who also instigated that by trying to throw an elbow at Raja's chest (or maybe his face, it was hard to say).

The fact that Horry cheapshotted 2 Suns on back 2 back plays shows who the true villain was in the incident, regardless of what actions the NBA takes. Horry just went apeshit. Not only showing zero remorse for an obvious cheapshot, but then to try to cheapshot another Sun player.

Horry can't seriously expect that he will be allowed to body check Nash into the scorer's table and not have a Sun or more in his face right afterwards.

[Kori Ellis]

Horry was the one who also instigated that by trying to throw an elbow at Raja's chest (or maybe his face, it was hard to say).

I believe Horry threw a forearm to Raja's face.

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, the post foul stuff entailed Bell running towards Horry (who knows what he was saying) but Horry was the one who also instigated that by trying to throw an elbow at Raja's chest (or maybe his face, it was hard to say).

The fact that Horry cheapshotted 2 Suns on back 2 back plays shows who the true villain was in the incident, regardless of what actions the NBA takes. Horry just went apeshit. Not only showing zero remorse for an obvious cheapshot, but then to try to cheapshot another Sun player.

Horry can't seriously expect that he will be allowed to body check Nash into the scorer's table and not have a Sun or more in his face right afterwards.
WTF was Raja going to do while in his face? Spew bad breath and make HOrry regret the foul? Give me a fucking break. Running at someone and getting in their face is an aggressive instigative action.

[SA Gunslinger]

It's the playoffs. Don't suspend anyone.

[mikekim]

I'm still flabbergasted (yes, I said, "flabbergasted") by Horry's foul...wtf was going through his head??? seriously...

I really can't believe that he would do such an "unclutch" thing...but he did...the only explanation is he knew he would get people suspended...no....it was bonehead move...but Big Shot Rob?? ahhh...

[bobbyjoe]

I believe Horry threw a forearm to Raja's face.

That's the way it looked. But to some homers, Bell instigated it. LOL!

Horry's lucky he only had one Suns player and not the entire team and coaching staff in his grill after that despicable play of filth.

[Phenomanul]

Actually, the post foul stuff entailed Bell running towards Horry (who knows what he was saying) but Horry was the one who also instigated that by trying to throw an elbow at Raja's chest (or maybe his face, it was hard to say).

The fact that Horry cheapshotted 2 Suns on back 2 back plays shows who the true villain was in the incident, regardless of what actions the NBA takes. Horry just went apeshit. Not only showing zero remorse for an obvious cheapshot, but then to try to cheapshot another Sun player.

Horry can't seriously expect that he will be allowed to body check Nash into the scorer's table and not have a Sun or more in his face right afterwards.


Didn't Nash also run at Horry? Right after he got up....???

[bobbyjoe]

Yes, Nash did. He got in Horry's face. And I dont think anyone, even a diehard Spurs fan, can blame for him doing so.

[Phenomanul]

Yes, Nash did. He got in Horry's face. And I dont think anyone, even a diehard Spurs fan, can blame for him doing so.

After trying to get a hit on him and ending up only with a grab of his jersey...

You don't see Parker or Ginobili going after people even after having been subjected to hard fouls.... And Ginobili's been on the receiving of many sucker punches.

If I were Stu this would be my verdict:

Horry: 2-Game Suspension and $10,000 fine for the forearm to Bell's neck.

Diaw: 1-Game Suspension (he should know better than to go running on to the court towards the 'altercation')

Amare: 1-Game Suspension (same as Diaw - he should really really know better - c'mon guys these guys know the rules, and are expected to follow them - i.e. no Spurs player left the bench)

Raja: No Suspension - Flagrant point assessed.

Nash: No Suspension - Flagrant point assessed.

Do I condone Horry's actions? Heavens no! I didn't expect him to mar the game this way. Did the Suns players overeact however? Yes, they certainly did - they should have let the league take care of Horry and stay out of trouble. Unfortunately, what was started by Horry can hurt the Suns even more because the Suns players lost their cool as well.

[The_Game]

They will be ready to play and don't forget they won 54 games without Amare last year and the way Nash has stepped up i wouldn't be surprised to see suns get the win.

So if amare is suspended it is by no means a lock for the spurs to win.

[Phenomanul]

They will be ready to play and don't forget they won 54 games without Amare last year and the way Nash has stepped up i wouldn't be surprised to see suns get the win.

So if amare is suspended it is by no means a lock for the spurs to win.


The reason they did so well was because Diaw got most of Amare's minutes last year and had a breakout season... it's a double whammy that both of them broke the rule on this occasion.

[Findog]

It's a stupid fucking rule. The game was decided when the foul occured. Horry got a flagrant 2 -- the ejection should cover his "suspension." I thought it was actually at the borderline of F 1-2 but they gave him a 2 in order to keep him eligible for Game Five. If you upgrade later to a F2, then he would have to sit out G5.

As for Amare and Diaw, the coaching staff held them back. If we're going to be lenient when Bowen nails Nash in the nads, let's be lenient over guys in the heat of battle wandering away from the bench and momentarily forgetting the rule. Nothing of consequence came of it -- there was no brawl, just a lot of jostling and words exchanged.

This should be decided at full-strength.

[Phenomanul]

It's a stupid fucking rule. The game was decided when the foul occured. Horry got a flagrant 2 -- the ejection should cover his "suspension." I thought it was actually at the borderline of F 1-2 but they gave him a 2 in order to keep him eligible for Game Five. If you upgrade later to a F2, then he would have to sit out G5.

As for Amare and Diaw, the coaching staff held them back. If we're going to be lenient when Bowen nails Nash in the nads, let's be lenient over guys in the heat of battle wandering away from the bench and momentarily forgetting the rule. Nothing of consequence came of it -- there was no brawl, just a lot of jostling and words exchanged.

This should be decided at full-strength.


I didn't make the rules....

And the players should know the rules....

Again, no Spurs bench player made a move towards the court... and Ginobili or Parker don't have a habit of running at players after they've been fouled. Maybe Nash wanted to play it tougher than them....

[Findog]

I didn't make the rules....

And the players should know the rules....

Again, no Spurs bench player made a move towards the court... and Ginobili or Parker don't have a habit of running at players after they've been fouled. Maybe Nash wanted to play it tougher than them....

Diaw and Amare did not escalate the situation, and they were ultimately restrained by their coaching staff before they could have been in a position to do so. The Phoenix coaching staff certainly was aware of the rule. If the NBA truly cares about its product, they'll let everybody play, including Horry. It would be a shame that Phoenix would ultimately be punished more for a sequence that was initiated by Horry.

That's the bottom line: the officiating in this series has been terrible for both teams, and I want this thing decided at full-strength. It would be fucking bullshit for the Suns to be crippled and punished in G5. There's nothing wrong with Diaw and Amare jumping up in the heat of the moment to check on a teammate with a spinal condition that's been slammed into the scorer's table on a thug move. They violated the letter of the law but not the spirit.

[George Gervin's Afro]

These guys should play.

[Phenomanul]

Diaw and Amare did not escalate the situation, and they were ultimately restrained by their coaching staff before they could have been in a position to do so. The Phoenix coaching staff certainly was aware of the rule. If the NBA truly cares about its product, they'll let everybody play, including Horry. It would be a shame that Phoenix would ultimately be punished more for a sequence that was initiated by Horry.

That's the bottom line: the officiating in this series has been terrible for both teams, and I want this thing decided at full-strength. It would be fucking bullshit for the Suns to be crippled and punished in G5. There's nothing wrong with Diaw and Amare jumping up in the heat of the moment to check on a teammate with a spinal condition that's been slammed into the scorer's table on a thug move. They violated the letter of the law but not the spirit.

I'm with you.... but bottom line is that this is not how one would run a business. Especially after events like the Palace Brawl and the MSG Melee have already tainted your product.

If no one is suspended it leaves behind a very bad precedent. The reason bench players aren't allowed on the court is cause they distract the referees from providing a restraining role. For every extra player that enters the court they loose their ability to gain control of the situation. Fortunately, in this case the event didn't escalate any further. Nevertheless, call me a stickler but a rule is a rule.

Only two courses of action... no one gets suspended or fined. Or everyone involved gets punished. Unfortunately for Phoenix, more Suns players sided with Horry in the 'loosing their cool' department.

[DarkReign]

I'd prefer no Suns suspensions. Its not really warranted.

And that my friends, is called not being a blind homer.

Horry suspended. No one else.

[SAGambler]

I don't know what the hell Horry was thinking, but both Stoudemire and Diaw left the bench to walk TOWARD the altercation. The NBA has a no tolerance rule stating that ANY PLAYER THAT LEAVES THE BENCH during an altercation is suspended for 1 game. They HAVE to follow that rule and suspend both Stoudemire and Diaw 1 game. If they don't, they have absolutely no integrity left.

I think Horry was probably thinking "enough is enough" tonight and decided to lay Nash out. The entire game was called so Phoenix could stay close enough to win it in the end. Totally biased and IMO the entire action of Horry and the reaction of the Suns bench is on the refs. How many times did a Spur go flying across the floor and no whistle? Frustration is what caused this entire thing.

But yes a rule is a rule. The players all know it. And if they don't suspend the two from Phoenix along with Horry and possibly even Bell (don't know if he threw a punch or not) then the league officials need to show up enmasse for a sex change operation.

[Findog]

but bottom line is that this is not how one would run a business.

You best run a business by making your products and services available. The NBA is doing itself no favors if Horry, STAT and Diaw are in streetclothes for G5.




If no one is suspended it leaves behind a very bad precedent.

Is that such a bad thing? We have a silly, ridiculous rule that has no competitive bearing on a series, and we're not going to enforce it so these two teams can decide who is best on the court. That's a bad thing?

[Phenomanul]

You best run a business by making your products and services available. The NBA is doing itself no favors if Horry, STAT and Diaw are in streetclothes for G5.

How so? Game 6 and a possible Game 7 are still there for the taking with teams at full strength.




Is that such a bad thing? We have a silly, ridiculous rule that has no competitive bearing on a series, and we're not going to enforce it so these two teams can decide who is best on the court. That's a bad thing?

The rule prevents much bigger melees from breaking out, and enbles the refereeing crew to manage the situation. It's not entirely without basis.

[Extra Stout]

Too many Spurs fans are being whiners and hypocrites, like Suns fans were being after Game 3.

[LEONARD]

LOL...gotta love this place... :lol

Horry isn't dumb...he knew they were looking at a best of 3 without home court, so he wiped Nash out right in front of the Suns bench knowing that several key players were on the bench and knowing they'd react. THEN for good measure he throws an elbow at Bell... :donkey

"Cheap Shot Bob" :nope

DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY!!! :ihit

[Findog]

How so? Game 6 and a possible Game 7 are still there for the taking with teams at full strength.

Game Five is critical in a 2-2 series, the winner of G5 goes on to win something like 75 percent of the time. I don't want to see Pat Burke and Jalen Rose getting major burn. Ditto Francisco Elson in for Robert Horry.



The rule prevents much bigger melees from breaking out, and enbles the refereeing crew to manage the situation. It's not entirely without basis

That's fine and all, but after the fact, there should be some leeway. This is the playoffs. I don't want a series decided on somebody sitting in streetclothes.

[Soul_Patch]

I hope they both get suspended. I dont give a shit about best teams against best teams.

stop being pussies...seriously. This is war, Id rather you all get suspended, you guys forfeit and we get to rest for Utah.

Amare has the IQ of my damn shoe. He is seriously the dumbest guy ive ever seen touch a basketball. Diaw got influenced by it, shame on him, but they broke the rule clear as day...a rule is a rule.


Horry did what veterans do. Stay in their fuckin heads. It is obviously working like a charm.

Im so sick and tired, seriously, of listening to all the whining about dirty, and oo flagrant foul!! ooo he pushed me!! God i miss the bad boy pistons and karl malone days.

I love this series. LOVE it. The game last night was sickening, just to see the spurs tank the 4th quarter, but the series is great. Shows how big of a chip the suns actually have on their shoulder. Soo scared of the big bad spurs.

Good luck Phoenix, i like your team (save amare) so if you win, i think its deserved...but stop with the bullshit crying.

[Phenomanul]

Too many Spurs fans are being whiners and hypocrites, like Suns fans were being after Game 3.

So somehow being a Spurs fan, doesn't allow me to look at the 'bench players are not allowed to step on the court during altercations' rule objectively?

The Suns already marred this series with so much complaining to the media and the league. The Spurs haven't stooped to those cheapening tactics in spite of whatever short comings they may have seen in the officiating. They never have. It's just a shame that Phoenix never intended to play on that principle - being that this Spurs squad has had their number.

[Jimcs50]

I'd prefer no Suns suspensions. Its not really warranted.


Thems the rules...sorry.


The thing is, the Spurs better win game 5 if Phoenix plays w/o Amare and Diaw, because if they do not, then the Spurs will be labled the biggest pussies in the history of the NBA.

[Jimcs50]

I believe Horry threw a forearm to Raja's face.

He was defending himself with that forearm because Raja was getting ready to poke him one...it is clear.

[41times]

I guess Stat is worried about a suspension.

Stoudemire was caught on replays well off the bench but he said he was on his way to the scorer's table to check in when the incident happened. He said he's "just a little" worried about a possible suspension.

"I was just doing what the coach told me. He told me to check in," Stoudemire said. "I just got to say my prayers tonight."

[wildbill2u]

I don't know what the hell Horry was thinking, but both Stoudemire and Diaw left the bench to walk TOWARD the altercation. The NBA has a no tolerance rule stating that ANY PLAYER THAT LEAVES THE BENCH during an altercation is suspended for 1 game. They HAVE to follow that rule and suspend both Stoudemire and Diaw 1 game. If they don't, they have absolutely no integrity left.
You can bet the league will find a way to leave the players in the series without a suspension. Integrity? Not a part of TV-driven, big business sports.

[Mixability]

I'll say it again:


If any of the Suns are suspended, fine. But when we're begging for it, just because it's the "rules", then we just look like little bitches with no faith in our team.

[Spider TX]

No, you fuck off.

Your boys are a bunch of hot heads and Horry baited them and they took the bait. Horry is dirty, so fucking what? So is your boy Raja, and AMare and Boris are fucking idiots for leaving the bench.

Shaq even called them out, said they knew what they were doing when they left the bench.

I'd love for it to be decided at full strength, but seeings the refs didn't afford us that liberty tonight with a couple of bullshit calls on Duncan, you won't get any pity for your suck ass team from me.

The league let this situation get to this point by letting Phoenix cry for the last 10 days, and then upgrading a personal to a flagrant on Bowen today. The stage was set, and the refs looked the other way all game long tonight while Phoenix took cheap shot after cheap shot at the Spurs because of all your team's pansy ass fucking whining.

Horry paid all those cheap shots from Nash and Raja tonight back with interest. Sucks for you that Amare and Boris have the combined intelligence of a peanut.

What the hell is wrong with you? Are you really that dillusional of a fan? Your team absolutely chokes the game away when it matter, the Suns hit their shots, and you go and cry like this about the officiating, which was extremely fair tonight for the first time in the series. The Spurs have gotten every break from the officials up till now, but even then, I realize the Suns cost themselves game 3 for the most part even with bad officiating putting Amare on the bench most of that game. The refs did absolutely nothing to cost the Spurs game 4 last night, the Spurs did that to themselves. And then on top of that, Horry becomes the damn child that he is and lays the small Nash out like that.

The ONLY way the Spurs manage to win this series is if Amare and Diaw happen to be suspended, because the Suns are far and away the more talented team, and without the help of the officials, this series very well could have already been over with a quick 4 game sweep by the Suns. The Spurs are good, don't get me wrong, but they need extra help when facing a team like this who is clearly better than them.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Spurs have gotten every break from the officials up till now,

In what way? :rolleyes You need to heed your own advice, you call me a dillusional fan, you're just as bad for your Suns.

We need extra help? Check again who shot 29 FTs last night, son.

[Spider TX]

I think even you Spurs fans will all agree that Aggie HoopsFan is far and away your most immature poster on here. He whines and cries much like Duncan does every game, except AHP shows personality and cannot post a single time without something against another poster or using foul language. It's quite humerous actually.

[Spider TX]

In what way? :rolleyes You need to heed your own advice, you call me a dillusional fan, you're just as bad for your Suns.

We need extra help? Check again who shot 29 FTs last night, son.

using the number of free throws is the worst possible argument. It just shows that for once the Spurs are getting called for fould they commit. They are a good defensive team, but also commit A LOT of contact each and every play, and are getting called for it when it is to much. The officiaiting was very fair for once like I said, and the Spurs failed when it mattered. It's because they are not nearly as talented as the Suns, and need a lot of help to keep up with a team like them and the Mavs.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I hope Stoudemire is out for the rest of the series.