Luis Scola & Jackie Butler GONE?!

[whottt]

I got owned let me resort to fantasy basketball smack in a league where i finished in 20th out of 20 teams and timvp finished in 2nd.


Hey...I paid the price for TMac, Webber and Martin....served me right.

It's done now...and the only thing being served now, is notice.

[hsxvvd]

it's Still A Crap Trade!!!

[whottt]

So Scola threatened the Spurs that if they don't trade him right now that they'll get nothing for him, so the Spurs turn around and trade him for nothing. Is that really the take you want to have for this trade?

Please try again.


They either get capspace or another Euro PG for Pop to make team bitch...

[timvp]

Bruno - Do the Rockets have to include the money in the trade up front or can they wait to see if the Spurs need to buy out Spanoulis? It kinda sounds like if the Spurs don't have to buy out Spanoulis, that the Rockets will be off the hook in terms of giving the Spurs money. I'm guessing this is covered somewhere in the CBA . . .

[whottt]

What better offers did they turn down for Scola anyway...link please?

[Kori Ellis]

By the way, for the record, I don't really care about this trade. The Spurs were never going to use Butler unless they got rid of another bigman and had a lot of patience because he's so young.

And for three years, I have always said that Scola would never be a Spur, so he has been irrelevant to me.

But I just think two things about the whole thing are funny.

1) Some people going crazy dramatizing the effect on the team (i.e. Duncan should just go elsewhere because of this, Holt needs to sell, RC needs to be fired)

2) Some people trying to justify it as a good trade basketball wise. It was a good money saving trade. That's it. Basketball wise, they gave away two bigs for a 2009 pick that they'll probably give away and a small shooting guard that hates America. It's a dumb trade basketball wise.

But in the end, I don't really care. The Spurs need to go out and find an athletic forward and a backup point guard. Deal Beno, Barry and whoever else they consider expendable and get ready for next year.

[timvp]

What better offers did they turn down for Scola anyway...link please?

They turned down second round picks for him

Scola for a second round pick > Scola and Butler for a second round pick

[Kori Ellis]

They either get capspace or another Euro PG for Pop to make team bitch...

They didn't get any cap space, they are still over the cap.

[whottt]

And to me it is now obvious that the entire purpose of the SummerLeague was to up Jackie Butler's trade value...


Jackie played about as well as he ever has...and he was damn good offensively...and the Spurs never had any intention of keeping him, and were planning on Mahinimi from the get go.


The Spurs already knew they didn't want Butler...and he showed enough to make them reconsider moving him and hold off on Ian, if they were in the slightest bit inclined to do so.


I like Jackie...but I am telling you, that taking plays off crap he does sets a bad example for every other guy on the team.

[drmvp]

So Scola threatened the Spurs that if they don't trade him right now that they'll get nothing for him, so the Spurs turn around and trade him for no worthwhile assets, but in doing so strengthen a potential playoff rival who could end our dream of a repeat like the Dallas Mavericks did. Is that really the take you want to have for this trade?

Please try again.

Actually, I'd happily settle for nothing.

[Bruno]

Bruno - Do the Rockets have to include the money in the trade up front or can they wait to see if the Spurs need to buy out Spanoulis? It kinda sounds like if the Spurs don't have to buy out Spanoulis, that the Rockets will be off the hook in terms of giving the Spurs money. I'm guessing this is covered somewhere in the CBA . . .

I don't know.
If you are really interested, you could ask it to the CBA forum of the realgm boards : http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=558ff971dcb4bfa20497377a9ca9485e
They have a lot of real CBA expert including Larry Coon.

[whottt]

They turned down second round picks for him

Scola for a second round pick > Scola and Butler for a second round pick



Link? I heard those deals fell apart...


Surely you realize how ridiculous you sound acting like the Spurs turned down better deals to make the Rockets better?


I mean listening to you guys we probably turned down Oden for Butler.

[Kori Ellis]

Link? I heard those deals fell apart...


Surely you realize how ridiculous you sound acting like the Spurs turned down better deals to make the Rockets better?


I mean listening to you guys we probably turned down Oden for Butler.

It was reported weeks ago that the Spurs turned down 2nd round pick for Scola because they thought they could get more for him.

[whottt]

They didn't get any cap space, they are still over the cap.

IF Spatula wants out that's less they have to pay.


And if he doesn't then they can move Beno.

And I do think Beno is movable....

[whottt]

It was reported weeks ago that the Spurs turned down 2nd round pick for Scola because they thought they could get more for him.


Lots of things are reported...but why aren't those deals still available?

I mean if Scola is such a steal.....

[whottt]

If this trade was as bad as you guys are spinning it, they could have done it with any team.

[timvp]

Link? I heard those deals fell apart...


Surely you realize how ridiculous you sound acting like the Spurs turned down better deals to make the Rockets better?


I mean listening to you guys we probably turned down Oden for Butler.

Do you not read the Express-News? Before the draft they said multiple teams were offering second round picks but the Spurs wanted more.

Now that we are down to the last business day before Scola's deadline to buyout his contract, the Spurs panic and add Butler to get the second round pick they were offered a month ago.

[whottt]

Do you not read the Express-News? Before the draft they said multiple teams were offering second round picks but the Spurs wanted more.

Now that we are down to the last business day before Scola's deadline to buyout his contract, the Spurs panic and add Butler to get the second round pick they were offered a month ago.


I see...so Scola is this incredible deal....and the Spurs got raped...which is why no one else would take him(and Butler) for a second round pick...


Got it...

Makes all the sense in the world.

[whottt]

What's so funny is everyone assumes it's up to Scola....and the Spurs were nice enough to let Houston talk with Scola...


Did the Rockets also talk to Tau?

Cuz you know...they had a lot to do with all of this.

[Kori Ellis]

What's so funny is everyone assumes it's up to Scola....and the Spurs were nice enough to let Houston talk with Scola...


Did the Rockets also talk to Tau?

Cuz you know...they had a lot to do with all of this.

I don't think they talked to Tau. They weren't allowed to do any official negotiating until after the trade is complete.

[whottt]

I don't think they talked to Tau. They weren't allowed to do any official negotiating until after the trade is complete.

Right...and that's why Scola wasn't that easy to trade...


Because potentially you could look like an idiot for giving anything up for him...

Unless of course, you were giving up a player who said he was never going to play for you again. Then you've got nothing to lose.


The funny thing is...Tau, Scola and his Agent...they essentially have the Rockets by the balls now....

If Scola doesn't come...the Rockets look stupid. This looks like a horrible trade. They almost have to over-pay....for a guy that is going to be at best an average scorer with weak rebounding and defense...who incicdentally...can't win the big one.

[whottt]

I hope Butler plays against us....

5 on 4 advantage for the Spurs when the Rockets are on offense...and Elson might score 20 points per game just on FT. Or at least 12.

[timvp]

The only way this doesn't look like a one-sided panic trade by the Spurs is if either Scola's buyout proves to be more than the Rockets believe. Or if the trade for some reason makes the Spurs go out and sign a Posey, Barnes or Udoka.

[timvp]

I hope Butler plays against us....

5 on 4 advantage for the Spurs when the Rockets are on offense...and Elson might score 20 points per game just on FT. Or at least 12.

Did Elson even score 20 points in the entire playoff run combined? What are you smoking?

[drmvp]

The only way this doesn't look like a one-sided panic trade by the Spurs is if either Scola's buyout proves to be more than the Rockets believe. Or if the trade for some reason makes the Spurs go out and sign a Posey, Barnes or Udoka.

I'd really like him. Didn't he work out for the Spurs earlier? But R.C. (yeah, him again) didn't think enough of Barnes to offer him an attractive salary?

And so Barnes made up some face-saving excuse that he really just wanted to stay in NorCal?

[whottt]

Did Elson even score 20 points in the entire playoff run combined? What are you smoking?


I'm smoking Jackie's fouls in Summer League.





You are just looking at this too negatively...

If the Spurs weren't going to play Butler(and let's face it, they weren't)...then yes...

I'd say moving Butler's(contract) and Scola for a second rounder is better than just moving Scola for a second rounder.


Butler is not = to Raja Bell....in Pop's eyes. Pop never had Raja Bell on the roster for a year to play when he wanted to play him....and then didn't play him.




To me it is obvious now that the entire purpose of the first phase of Summer League was to move Jackie Butler....

It's been noted they wanted Mahinimi over here this year...they have limited roster spots. They got $$$ and a second rounder for Scola instead of just a second rounder.

I know you guys like Jackie...I liked him too...but the kid freaking takes plays off on offense...on offense...on offense! It's a problem.

[Kori Ellis]

I'd really like him. Didn't he work out for the Spurs earlier? But R.C. (yeah, him again) didn't think enough of Barnes to offer him an attractive salary?

And so Barnes made up some face-saving exuse that he really just wanted to stay in NorCal?

No that's not what happened. Barnes has worked out for San Antonio a couple summers, but he never wanted to play here. He really wants to stay in NorCal. He almost quit the NBA and went to the NFL before signing with the Warriors because he didn't want to play outside of the area. He had a really bad experience in Philly and doesn't want to leave California again. :lol

But if the Warriors don't hurry up and sign him, he might have to.

[Kori Ellis]

Right...and that's why Scola wasn't that easy to trade...


Because potentially you could look like an idiot for giving anything up for him...

Unless of course, you were giving up a player who said he was never going to play for you again. Then you've got nothing to lose.


The funny thing is...Tau, Scola and his Agent...they essentially have the Rockets by the balls now....

If Scola doesn't come...the Rockets look stupid. This looks like a horrible trade. They almost have to over-pay....for a guy that is going to be at best an average scorer with weak rebounding and defense...who incicdentally...can't win the big one.

It looks like they have now already got a deal with him making $3-3.5M in the first year.

[timvp]

I'm smoking Jackie's fouls in Summer League.

You really want to compare Butler's and Elson's summer league stats? Let me know if you do and I'll get the numbers. And keep in mind this is a 28-year-old Elson getting owned in summer league.

[whottt]

You really want to compare Butler's and Elson's summer league stats? Let me know if you do and I'll get the numbers. And keep in mind this is a 28-year-old Elson getting owned in summer league.


It's a fact that you hate Elson more than anyone this side of AJ(your words, not mine)....not only becuase of a general dislike of his game...but as well because he gave you your worst owning ever.


The simple truth of the matter is that...one Gregg Poppovich, played Elson over Butler...whether you like it, or not...

Just like he kicked Devin(timeout) Brown's ass to the curb without ever giving you guys notice that the worm had turned.


It happens...


Elson is big fast and athletic...and he can be out there and completely have his head up his ass, and still be more productive than most role playing centers would be in our system. In fact he was...

[drmvp]

No that's not what happened. Barnes has worked out for San Antonio a couple summers, but he never wanted to play here. He really wants to stay in NorCal. He almost quit the NBA and went to the NFL before signing with the Warriors because he didn't want to play outside of the area. He had a really bad experience in Philly and doesn't want to leave California again. :lol

But if the Warriors don't hurry up and sign him, he might have to.

Thanks. NFL? Interesting...

I think the friendly folks in SA could show him the kind of down-home hospitality that he'd never find in Philly. Tell him to come on down. Have a margarita and barbacoa at Taco Cabana :drunk

[MrChug]

I think this may mean something good in the bigger picture...





...wait, no I don't.

[timvp]

It's a fact that you hate Elson more than anyone this side of AJ(your words, not mine)....not only becuase of a general dislike of his game...but as well because he gave you your worst owning ever.

I owned myself when I apologized for thinking I could be wrong. Go back and read my posts of what Elson would be before the Spurs signed him and it was exactly right. Fast, can dunk but has too low of a basketball IQ to be a starter on a championship team. I said he'd be decent as a backup center ... which he was.

I learned my lesson and won't doubt timvp after one game.

[Kori Ellis]

Elson is big fast and athletic...and he can be out there and completely have his head up his ass, and still be more productive than most role playing centers would be in our system. In fact he was...

:lol 5 and 4 and bad D isn't exactly productive. But hey, he's fast and can pull down uncontested rebounds and put out his elbows to pretend he accomplished something better than most.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks. NFL? Interesting...



He was an All-American wide receiver back in the day.

[whottt]

I disagree with Pop.


Hey...welcome to the club.

[whottt]

:lol 5 and 4 and bad D isn't exactly productive.
He does more than just stats...he just kind of fucks stuff up...



But hey, he's fast and can pull down uncontested rebounds and put out his elbows to pretend he accomplished something better than most.


He's got better hands than Rasho and Nazr and he dunks better...and he can guard smaller players better.


Keep in mind...he straight up beat Oberto out of the starting spot in training camp with virtually no experience in our system. That was because of the way he can fuck stuff up without having the system down...



Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen won six titles surrounded by 6'8 versions of Elson...

[jéjé]

really it sucks !!

Jackie was very young and show a lot during the summerleague and scola is a real great player the spurs receives nothing for this trade !

[Kori Ellis]

and he can guard smaller players better.
I haven't seen him guard anyone very well.

Hopefully he improves next year because it looks like the Spurs are stuck with him.

[timvp]

...he just kind of fucks stuff up...
Agreed.


Keep in mind...he straight up beat Oberto out of the starting spot in training camp with virtually no experience in our system.

:reading

[whottt]

Say what you want about Frankie...at least he can run up and down the court more than 2 times in a row without passing out under his own basket.

Fuck...I am 39 and smoke and I can get up and down the court better than Butler.

It was a problem...it was a problem you guys were turning a blind eye too because of Butler's obvious offensive talent...I tried to do it too...but after a while it just became obvious that Butler can't tell the difference between being in the NBA and playing a pick up game at the YMCA.


I could slam 2 beers, and smoke a half pack of cigs and still get up and down the court better than Butler...

I figure it took Pop about 5 seconds to make this decision. Especially after the one edict Butler had from Pop...was to get into shape.


An edict that was also given to Ian...which Ian did.

[whottt]

Agreed.



:reading


Should I go dig up some Oberto hating threads from last offseason?

[drmvp]

Can anybody explain this alleged Spurs' scouting report on Spanoulis from Wikipedia (scroll down about half way)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vasileios_Spanoulis&oldid=141756980


NBA Scouting Report From San Antonio Spurs October 2006

While most competition in European basketball is considered to be either at the NCAA division one College basketball level or lower, competition in the Spanish league Asociación de Clubs de Baloncesto, Italian league Serie A (basketball), and Greek league A1_Ethniki is considered to be one step above the college level, even one step above the NBDL level. The Greek league is more recently considered the top competitive level of European basketball. Spanoulis' success at that level, combined with his success in the 2006 World Basketball Championship and the 2004 Olympics, which are considered to be near to NBA level competition, shows that he has legitimate NBA talent.

This was highlighted by Spanoulis leading the Greek National team to a victory over the United States National team team during the 2006 World championship final four round. Spanoulis scored 22 points in that game and regularly abused NBA point guards Chris Paul, Kirk Hinrich, and Dwyane Wade on both ends of the floor, offensively one on one, as well as in the pick-and-roll, and also on the defensive end in one on one assignments.

Spanoulis is a lightning-quick play-maker guard that can play either position in the back court due to his size at 6'4 3/4" in shoes (1.95m) and at a training camp weight of 203 pounds (92kg). Generally considered to have been a more talented prospect coming out of the European level to the NBA than Manu Ginobili was. Can get into the lane and penetrate at will. Incredibly dept at running the pick-and-roll offense. Will pick up fouls at an amazing rate, even better than Dwyane Wade will. Excellent finisher around the basket and excellent free throw shooter. Tremendous open court and half court abilities on offense. Can create open layups/dunks and open 3 point shots for teammates at will. Breaks down the opposing defense whenever he wants to.

Outstanding one on one defender at either guard spot. Can swipe it from any guard when he wants to. Even though his wingspan is only 6'5" (1.96m) he more than holds his own in the post on defense against bigger and stronger guards. A lock down defender against point guards even on the NBA level. Not a great team defender at the NBA level yet, but has all of the tools to be one and should learn this under Jeff Van Gundy's tutelage in Houston as he has amazing lateral quickness with his feet, great hand speed, and a good solid NBA body, as well as a high basketball IQ on the defensive end of the floor.

Not a good shooter from NBA 3 point range, but has an excellent jump shot from 18-21 feet and has the ability to shoot 37% to 41% from that range. Needs to add about 5 feet of range to his jump shot in order to succeed on a team that features both Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. Unbelievable court vision and passing ability. A highlight reel assist waiting to happen. Very reminiscent of Steve Nash in his passing and play-making abilities. Like Nash, basketball IQ is off the charts with the rare ability to connect on passes that no other players besides them would even dare to attempt. Should take some time for his teammates to learn to play with him because of this. A drawback of this is that he will always have a high number of turnovers.

Very turnover prone much like Manu Ginobili. Tends to play out of control and helter skelter in a fashion similar to Ginobili at times and like Ginobili also has this defect in his game. However, also extremely competitive and willful in game situations much like Ginobili. Also excels in big-game moments and in the highest levels of competition like Ginobili. Also similar penetration and finishing ability to Tony Parker, although not as good of a ball-handler as Parker. Superior point guard instincts and court vision to Parker. Like Parker not much NBA 3 point range, but is a better shooter than Parker is from 15-21 feet.

Not a great athlete by NBA standards, but a solid one. More than athletic enough to lock down defensively on the perimeter and get into the lane and finish or dish off at the NBA level. Incredible first step, even Leandro Barbosa like. Won't dunk on anyone but will finish in the paint like Parker. Very intriguing point guard prospect with a huge upside.

Is this pure B.S.?

[AFBlue]

Thoughts from the morning after...

:madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun :madrun


Yep...still the same.

Actually, I also realized that the Spurs traded away their youngest player, increasing their average age, which I believe is well over 30 now.

I thought they were making a concerted effort to get younger....no?

I have another thought on Scola. Perhaps he's signing for "as much as $3-3.5M in the first year" because they're adding the cost of his buyout into the equation. What if he's due to make no more than $2-2.5M a year in actual salary?

Also, I wish I could say that this seems like a cost-cutting move...but there's the quote about Amir to dispute it. The way I read that quote is that the Spurs were willing to offer in excess of $4M a year, but that he decided to stay in Detroit for less....3yr $11M. How that is attempting to save money, I'll never know.

It simply seems like this was a goodwill gesture to both players in order to get them the playing time that our FO thought they truly deserved....which is rediculous. And it's made even more rediculous by the fact that those players will have the opportunity to play ALOT against their former team.

That is all for now...

[picnroll]

The legend that is Jackie Butler will sit on the bench this year behind Yao and Mutumbo and his option won't be picked up by the Rockets next year. He was the price the Rockets paid to get Scola.

Facts or near facts:
1. 28 teams GMS, coaches, assistant coaches ballboys, etc. saw so little in Butler and Scola to make a trivial offer of a few bucks and a late second rounder.
2. Rockets are riding their hopes on solving their PF situation with a guy that drew virtual no interest by other NBA teams. Unprecedented even in the era of Eurobusts.
3. Something to really be concerned about, the Spurs reportedly just made a high dollar offer for a player who was in the NBDL last year, Amir Johnson, who is supposed to bring some of what Mahinmi is supposed to bring. What does that say about Mahinmi and where he's at and will be in the Spurs eye?

But the peeps here know Butler is great and Scola is going to kill the Spurs, somthing 28 other teams front offices are unaware of.

[Sam]

I said some of this last night but here's the story.

Scola was contacted by the Spurs about coming over and his contract. Scola said he did not like the system or the city and would not come over at all ever. He was pissed off that they didn't bring him over last year and stated that he would stay in Europe. Several Spurs officials and Pop talked to him on the phone while in France for Tony's wedding. When it was decided that they would move him. Scola came back and said I just want to play for certain teams. So any deal that was going to be done had to basically have his approval since a team isn't going to trade for him if he's never going to come over and actually play. Therefore, this lowered his value once it got out.

Pop has never liked Butler. He believes that he is lazy out on the floor and isn't smart enough to play in the system. He got frustrated when he would ask him questions and Butler had not read the scouting reports, playbooks or watched film to answer them. He also didn't like that he was always goofing off. So to appease Pop they got rid of him.

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

Everyone here complaining about how we should have received more for Butler/Scola should just STFU. You're the same people who probably list your house for 500K when it's worth about 250. The axiom "It's worth exactly what someone will pay for it" is about right. For all the hype about Scola, let's just remember he hasn't played one minute in the NBA, and there's no guarantee he turns into a great player in the Rockets "system." As for Butler, I think the Spurs are good enough to evaluate a player and determine if he's a good fit for their system...he's not, at least not right now. With one year left on his contract, what should they have done? Let him ride the bench for 2007-08 and then sign him to a long term extension in the hopes that maybe he 'develops'? Or dump his roster spot so that Mahinmi and Splitter have a chance over the next few years? Bottom line: Butler is no more proven than either of those guys, so why pay him 2.4 million?

I'll trust R.C. on this one, thanks.

[drmvp]

But the peeps here know that this scrawny-looking kid named Josh Howard will hurt the Spurs, somthing 28 other teams front offices who passed him over in the draft are unaware of.

[mystargtr34]

No need to give Elson a bad rap just because we lost Jackie. I slept on it, now the trade sucks, but to a lesser degree. I just cant see how Butler would have played in our system, not now and not in 5 years. He is a great offensive talent but you cant teach agility and athleticism, and you certaintly cant teach 7 feet. Jackie was 6'8 without shoes, not quite the advertised 6'10" even in shoes. Secondly, like Scola he doesnt complement Duncan well. I understand Oberto isnt the most athletic guy in the league, in fact he probly couldnt jump over a line - but he has the smarts and IQ adequate in complementing Duncan. Like i said, Butler has an ice cream bucket load of offensive talent, but that just doesnt get it done in our system. As a basketball player, hes just dumb, hence why he couldnt play meaningful minutes. Hes a one trick pony, just like Scola.

The real disappointment for me, like ive said a thousand times, isnt getting rid of the two, it was somewhat ineviteble - its just that i thought a team like Chicago would have bit to a better deal for us. (Then again im sure RC and Pop went down that avenue).

Anyway, i still think the trade sux but after taking my crybaby goggles off the picture is a little clearer.

[Bruno]

I said some of this last night but here's the story.

Scola was contacted by the Spurs about coming over and his contract. Scola said he did not like the system or the city and would not come over at all ever. He was pissed off that they didn't bring him over last year and stated that he would stay in Europe. Several Spurs officials and Pop talked to him on the phone while in France for Tony's wedding. When it was decided that they would move him. Scola came back and said I just want to play for certain teams. So any deal that was going to be done had to basically have his approval since a team isn't going to trade for him if he's never going to come over and actually play. Therefore, this lowered his value once it got out.

Pop has never liked Butler. He believes that he is lazy out on the floor and isn't smart enough to play in the system. He got frustrated when he would ask him questions and Butler had not read the scouting reports, playbooks or watched film to answer them. He also didn't like that he was always goofing off. So to appease Pop they got rid of him.

Thanks. :tu

[Bruno]

And for people crying because Spurs have given Scola to a rival :

1) It's far from done that Scola will be a good nba player. He has shown obvious limitations in europe during big games.

2) Spurs FO have questioned Scola ability to play with Duncan. Will he be able to play with Yao ?

3) It's not Scola or nothing for Rockets. Rockets will spend a part of the MLE to get Scola. With the MLE they could have had a player like Joe Smith. Will Scola be an upgrade over Joe Smith ? Likely but not in his rookie year.

[Streakyshooter08]

I wonder if we hear anything out of Spanoulis or his agent.

@Bruno: Do you know if Splitter also has a deadline until they can decide to buy him out? Is there even a chance that he comes over this year?

[picnroll]

But the Spurs, at least Popovich, actually wanted Howard and realized his talent but were stuck in the "We've got to have the cap space for Kidd" mode, unlike realizing Butler isn't worth it and is a lazy fat assed bum.

[mystargtr34]

He was contacted and informed of the trade and he took the same stance saying he doesnt want to come to America

[picnroll]

I said some of this last night but here's the story.

Scola was contacted by the Spurs about coming over and his contract. Scola said he did not like the system or the city and would not come over at all ever. He was pissed off that they didn't bring him over last year and stated that he would stay in Europe. Several Spurs officials and Pop talked to him on the phone while in France for Tony's wedding. When it was decided that they would move him. Scola came back and said I just want to play for certain teams. So any deal that was going to be done had to basically have his approval since a team isn't going to trade for him if he's never going to come over and actually play. Therefore, this lowered his value once it got out.

Thanks Sam.

Wonder if those teams Scola had on his list were for the most part ones needing a PF and one problem with the Spurs was he knew he wouold be buried on the bench with the Spurs, at least for a while.

Looks like getting Elson + Butler cost the Spurs Scola. Remains to be seen if that was a mistake and if so how big. Butler? Pop doesn't have a systme built around turds.

[Bruno]

Do you know if Splitter also has a deadline until they can decide to buy him out? Is there even a chance that he comes over this year?

Splitter has no buyout in his contract this year.
Splitter has a $1M buyout next summer and if don't pay this buyout, his contract will be extended until 2012 by Tau.

Splitter won't sign this year with Spurs because Splitter can't give way more than $1M with his rookie contract to Tau. Tau won't let him go one year sooner to get $500K more. With Scola going in nba, it's even more unlikely : Splitter will be really needed next year by Tau because he is a good player and because he has the spanish nationality (you have quota rules in spanish league).

The good news for Spurs is that Splitter will have more offensive touch next year with Tau.

[drmvp]

---

You're cool, and damn I hate remembering that Kidd plan.

I'm not really too terribly upset about Butler.

Scola's a different story in my opinion. I guess everyone here will just have to stake out their position, and let things play out. Only time will tell who's right.

[Streakyshooter08]

Splitter has no buyout in his contract this year.
Splitter has a $1M buyout next summer and if don't pay this buyout, his contract will be extended until 2012 by Tau.

Splitter won't sign this year with Spurs because Splitter can't give way more than $1M with his rookie contract to Tau. Tau won't let him go one year sooner to get $500K more. With Scola going in nba, it's even more unlikely : Splitter will be really needed next year by Tau because he is a good player and because he has the spanish nationality (you have quota rules in spanish league).

The good news for Spurs is that Splitter will have more offensive touch next year with Tau.

Thank you! :tu

[Supergirl]

Spurs must have a good feeling about Mahimini in order to let both their top prospect big men go, and to a division rival no less.

[hsxvvd]

Maybe this is yet another positive - Splitter's opportunity to develop without Scola

So we get $$$ + 2nd Rounder + An Angry Greek + Roster spot + A better Splitter next year = Butler + Scola

[ploto]

Scola was contacted by the Spurs about coming over and his contract. Scola said he did not like the system or the city and would not come over at all ever. He was pissed off that they didn't bring him over last year and stated that he would stay in Europe. Several Spurs officials and Pop talked to him on the phone while in France for Tony's wedding. When it was decided that they would move him. Scola came back and said I just want to play for certain teams. So any deal that was going to be done had to basically have his approval since a team isn't going to trade for him if he's never going to come over and actually play. Therefore, this lowered his value once it got out.
First, I hate to give you a hard time but you write that as if the phones from SA don't call Argentina but the ones from France do. It's not like Luis was in France and they went to see him.

We have said all along that Scola was not coming- I surely hope this was not some new revelation to the Spurs. The Spurs tried to be hard asses with him and his agent and it did not work. He told them he would just stay in Europe and they would never get anything for him- and the Spurs flinched.

[ploto]

The funniest part is going to be when Spanoulis decides he wants some $$ afterall. He can just follow the Scola plan- threaten the Spurs that he will report to the team and they will have to pay him his full salary of $2M.

[td4mvp3]

Your point sucks. Further, we weren't talking about Butler being a 20 and 10 guy for the 2007-2008 Spurs. Try reading sometime.

This was about the Spurs trading two of their more valuable commodities for an ass raping from Houston.



The Spurs are already making money. This saves Holt 4 million next year, when the franchise has already increased in value 150 million. Total bullshit.

Where did anyone say we would miss the playoffs next year? Or get beat in the first round?

Seeings you are too stupid to comprehend, let me spell it out:

1. The Spurs gave a division rival with a glaring weakness a solution to said weakness.... for nothing

2. The Spurs gave up a talented young big man who had been busting his ass and doing everything the Spurs asked him including dropping 30 pounds in 8 months... for nothing.

3. The Spurs put 4 million more in Holt's pocket for next year, and as far as improving the team next year or the future, it did absolutely nothing.



Butler was 21 in NY playing for a coach in Larry Brown who notoriously favored veterans over young players. Try again :lol



You can give them whatever you want. The last time the Spurs put this many ancient role players around TD, they got spanked by the Lakers. Don't be surprised if it happens again in 2008, only at the hands of the Mavs.



Again, try reading. I was talking about AFTER 2008. For someone who is trying to come off as knowledgeable about the business world as you are, one would think you could read a sentence and make sense of it.

for a guy who keeps telling me to read, you should try it.


It doesn't matter if Butler wouldn't have gotten any playing time this year? Have you looked at our roster next year? Here, let me help you out:

Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobili
Jacque Vaughn
Matt Bonner
for me, next year, amazingly, is the 07-08 season, when, amazingly, we have more than five players signed.

and for all your businesss acumen, you seem pretty naive. all businesses are meant to make money for the owner, all cut corners and take risks they deem acceptable. this was one of those. scola never seemed liked he was coming and butler, for all the potential people say he has, has yet to do enough to get off the bench. yeah, he played for larry brown, but then he played for pop and the result seemed eerily similar. and if the idea is that neither coach likes to play rookies or young guys, then his situation wasn't changing with the spurs regardless. and the last time the spurs put a bunch of old guys around duncan, they won the title, because it was this season. as for your points, 1. maybe, but again, i'm giving a 4-time champion the benefit; 2. butler's contributions have been addressed, this is a business, as you say, and sometimes even doing what you're told doesn't keep you from getting axed; 3. good for him, he owns the thing. the spurs are not only about putting out a great team, they are about putting money in holt's pocket. to think otherwise is silly and naive. if you don't like it, you buy the team.

[Soul_Patch]

Wow....Spanoulis is fuckin emo as hell.

[Ignite]

So we traded a greasy dago and a Nagger for some sand nagger from greece!

[ShoogarBear]

Pop has never liked Butler. He believes that he is lazy out on the floor and isn't smart enough to play in the system. He got frustrated when he would ask him questions and Butler had not read the scouting reports, playbooks or watched film to answer them. He also didn't like that he was always goofing off. So to appease Pop they got rid of him.And yet friggin Beno is still here.

Beno's laziness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Butler's

[td4mvp3]

Your point sucks. Further, we weren't talking about Butler being a 20 and 10 guy for the 2007-2008 Spurs. Try reading sometime.

This was about the Spurs trading two of their more valuable commodities for an ass raping from Houston.



The Spurs are already making money. This saves Holt 4 million next year, when the franchise has already increased in value 150 million. Total bullshit.

Where did anyone say we would miss the playoffs next year? Or get beat in the first round?

Seeings you are too stupid to comprehend, let me spell it out:

1. The Spurs gave a division rival with a glaring weakness a solution to said weakness.... for nothing

2. The Spurs gave up a talented young big man who had been busting his ass and doing everything the Spurs asked him including dropping 30 pounds in 8 months... for nothing.

3. The Spurs put 4 million more in Holt's pocket for next year, and as far as improving the team next year or the future, it did absolutely nothing.



Butler was 21 in NY playing for a coach in Larry Brown who notoriously favored veterans over young players. Try again :lol



You can give them whatever you want. The last time the Spurs put this many ancient role players around TD, they got spanked by the Lakers. Don't be surprised if it happens again in 2008, only at the hands of the Mavs.



Again, try reading. I was talking about AFTER 2008. For someone who is trying to come off as knowledgeable about the business world as you are, one would think you could read a sentence and make sense of it.

i don't want to quibble over some semantics of when the season ends and starts. going back to my point with the losing in the first round and all that, it was to point out how little gets lost with this trade. the spurs aren't a demonstrably worse team for it, and while the trade to the rockets seems to help them out, why don't we cool our jets until things play out. our most valuable trade commodities appeared to be worth jack and squat based on the fact that no real trade has been pulled off with either until now. scola was apparently coveted by the bulls but that didn't happen; lots of teams could use a low-post player and maybe good potential guy like butler, nothing happened. i don't like the trade but it's a disappointment, not a disaster. if scola comes in and tears it up, fine, i'm wrong. but losing it before the proof is out there is just silly.

[Sam]

First, I hate to give you a hard time but you write that as if the phones from SA don't call Argentina but the ones from France do. It's not like Luis was in France and they went to see him.

You aren't giving me a hard time. What I was doing with that sentence was giving a time line of what was said, when it was said and how.

[urunobili]

and now ladies and Gentleman... get ready.. Scola will play us 4 times every season to remind Buford and Pop what a big time mistake was not to bring him over when they had the chance for being Cheap and not willing to use Holt's pocket when they had to.. instead.. they played cheap and brought Oberto... just get ready.. he is one of the few guys in the planet able to stop Duncan and out him in foul trouble... know EVERY Ginobili Move and Oberto is WAYYY to slow to even try to move against him... our only hope... Tony.. ah.. did i forget to say that he will be playing beside a big time Spur killer like Mc Grady? i REALLY don;t want to face the Rockets in the Postseason.. i am already scared... and i DOUBT Luis said or did anything to threaten THE sPURS despite having all reasons to do so after so many lies told to him... Get Ready San Antonio.. this could be the worst Spurs movement ever.... they should have shipped him to the Eastern conference,,, instead.. they've just made the west stronger... i am praying for a sign in trade for him to go to the east.... start lighting candles to San Antonio... i MEAN IT...

[td4mvp3]

and now ladies and Gentleman... get ready.. Scola will play us 4 times every season to remind Buford and Pop what a big time mistake was not to bring him over when they had the chance for being Cheap and not willing to use Holt's pocket when they had to.. instead.. they played cheap and brought Oberto... just get ready.. he is one of the few guys in the planet able to stop Duncan and out him in foul trouble... know EVERY Ginobili Move and Oberto is WAYYY to slow to even try to move against him... our only hope... Tony.. ah.. did i forget to say that he will be playing beside a big time Spur killer like Mc Grady? i REALLY don;t want to face the Rockets in the Postseason.. i am already scared... and i DOUBT Luis said or did anything to threaten THE sPURS despite having all reasons to do so after so many lies told to him... Get Ready San Antonio.. this could be the worst Spurs movement ever.... they should have shipped him to the Eastern conference,,, instead.. they've just made the west stronger... i am praying for a sign in trade for him to go to the east.... start lighting candles to San Antonio... i MEAN IT...

:rolleyes

terror of terrors, what if the spurs fo looked at this scenario and thought "no biggie." for all the fear this guy is putting into spurs fans, it looks like the spurs office isn't all that afraid, esp. considering who they sent him to.

[ploto]

He got frustrated when he would ask him questions and Butler had not read the scouting reports, playbooks or watched film to answer them...
Beno did the EXACT same thing his first year with the Spurs. The frustration with him was much more about his lack of study and preparation for games than in his physical conditioning.

[Sam]

Beno did the EXACT same thing his first year with the Spurs. The frustration with him was much more about his lack of study and preparation for games than in his physical conditioning.

From what I understand though, Beno's problem was culture and the english terminology/slang. Butler's isn't. He was still running things wrong in summer league and not being where he's supposed to be. Butler's attitude has rubbed the Spurs the wrong way.

[ArgSpursFan]

So T-mac, Scola and Yao in the rockets front court next year?
Man,R.C. is making him self look like an idiot.
We should´ve traded him to an eastern Conf. team.

[SAGambler]

We just handed Houston 2/3 of their big man rotation for a second round pick and a couple of 40 oz.ers for Holt. Damn I hate those cheap ass fuckers running this team. :pctoss

Time for a reality check. These "cheap ass fuckers" have managed to bring 4 NBA titles to this town in less than 10 years. Those "spend like a drunken whore" fuckers running the Knicks have "bought" how many?

And here's an idea. Dig up about 325 million, buy the Spurs, and spend as much as you like.

It always amazes me how someone is so damn willing to spend someone elses money for their agendas.

Maybe Holt is cheap. But I don't see a lot of trophies being presented to teams that have a lot more in salary. It's kind of like I've always said. Just because it costs more doesn't mean it's any damn better.

[urunobili]

Scola... the next Barbosa/Josh Howard.... Star in a rival team after being a player they had under their grasp... and i was thinking... he is way to good to wait an year on the bench just because it's "Pop's way"... the Spurs system is half stolen from the Argentine national team... so... not many new plays to have to "adapt to"... shit i'll need help to get over this...

[ArgSpursFan]

Time for a reality check. These "cheap ass fuckers" have managed to bring 4 NBA titles to this town in less than 10 years. Those "spend like a drunken whore" fuckers running the Knicks have "bought" how many?

And here's an idea. Dig up about 325 million, buy the Spurs, and spend as much as you like.

It always amazes me how someone is so damn willing to spend someone elses money for their agendas.

Maybe Holt is cheap. But I don't see a lot of trophies being presented to teams that have a lot more in salary. It's kind of like I've always said. Just because it costs more doesn't mean it's any damn better.

Dude,the spurs just won a championship,they´re selling the championship DVD,Spurs Jerseys and merchandising all over the word.They have the money to get better.
It´s not like they´re broke.WTF?????????

[ploto]

He was still running things wrong in summer league and not being where he's supposed to be.
And Elson was still doing that in June... And Nazr 2 years in...

[SAGambler]

So T-mac, Scola and Yao in the rockets front court next year?
Man,R.C. is making him self look like an idiot.
We should´ve traded him to an eastern Conf. team.

And of those three, two of them will probably, more than likely, judging from the past, sit on the bench a number of games with injuries. Can you guess which two that is?

But say they all stay healthy.....Tmac has never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs and Yao is just to damn big for 82 games plus the playoffs. His ass is worn out by the time the playoffs come around.

The only way I see Rockets being a threat is if Scola is indeed a Savior. And I rather doubt that he is.

[ArgSpursFan]

And of those three, two of them will probably, more than likely, judging from the past, sit on the bench a number of games with injuries. Can you guess which two that is?

But say they all stay healthy.....Tmac has never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs and Yao is just to damn big for 82 games plus the playoffs. His ass is worn out by the time the playoffs come around.

The only way I see Rockets being a threat is if Scola is indeed a Savior. And I rather doubt that he is.

Yeah,you probably said the same when the spurs drafted Ginobili in 1999,and them brought him onboard in 2002.

[Sam]

And Elson was still doing that in June... And Nazr 2 years in...
Look I'm only telling you what I hear. They didn't like Butler and now he is gone. If they could have found someone that was willing to take him during the season then they would have gotten rid of him.

[urunobili]

And of those three, two of them will probably, more than likely, judging from the past, sit on the bench a number of games with injuries. Can you guess which two that is?

But say they all stay healthy.....Tmac has never gotten out of the first round of the playoffs and Yao is just to damn big for 82 games plus the playoffs. His ass is worn out by the time the playoffs come around.

The only way I see Rockets being a threat is if Scola is indeed a Savior. And I rather doubt that he is.


Oh man... Scola's summer camp will be competing against Team USA and the Brazilian all stars.... get ready man... his pleasure will be to prove wrong Pop and RC.... his fire is same as Manu's...

[Marcus Bryant]

Scola won't be the 'savior' but he should be a quality scoring 4 who can take some of the scoring pressure off Yao and let Yao focus on defense and rebounding.

[picnroll]

The funniest part is going to be when Spanoulis decides he wants some $$ afterall. He can just follow the Scola plan- threaten the Spurs that he will report to the team and they will have to pay him his full salary of $2M.
That will really make you happy won't it? What a douche bag. Rasho sucked ass and while Butler was a lazy turd Rasho was a scared turd. Spurs don't have room for either. Get over it.

[spurster]

:lol at all the End of the World posts.

This is a bad trade for the Spurs, but the rest of the league could have gotten Scola for cheap, but passed up on it. Scola would have gotten little playing time on the Spurs, as the Spurs look to be going to a Duncan, Oberto, Bonner rotation the next few years. Part of the deal is to be nice to Scola, I guess. The Spurs typically aren't cutthroat in keeping non-rotation players from moving to other teams. Trading to the Rockets though is a bummer.

Also, it's too bad we traded the future all-star Butler, at least according to some. I think Butler is at least 5 years away from becoming a key contributor to a elite team. He needs lots of playing time, and the Spurs don't have any minutes for him.

I don't quite understand all the hate for Elson. Sure, he sucked in the playoffs, but he contributed during the regular season, and it was his first year here. Elson's 5 and 5 in his first year was certainly better than Oberto's 2 and 2 in his first year. Elson will be alright as a backup this year along with Horry and Bonner. As with other backups (such as Saint Malik), it will always be a question of whether he helps more than he hurts on a given night.

[AFBlue]

Scola won't be the 'savior' but he should be a quality scoring 4 who can take some of the scoring pressure off Yao and let Yao focus on defense and rebounding.

That's one thing that really kills me about this trade. It's not like it makes the Spurs considerable worse off, if at all....but it makes a division rival considerably better.

The Rockets are now a more well rounded team and they have the personnel to survive the 10-15 games that Yao and McGrady will likely miss due to various injuries. Not saying they're up there with the Spurs...but this improves their chances in the west considerably.

[picnroll]

It was Scola or Butler from the beginning basically. Timeline was

1. Spurs traded Rasho the Impotent and Nazr the Semi-concious and felt they needed to replace them.
2. Needed center/s to replace them and used their MLE toward that end meaning they couldn't bring over Scola (and really had no need for him)
3. Scola got his feelings hurt and got mad at the Spurs, decided he'd never play for them.
4. Went after a couple of players, Mourning, Przybilla without success. Toyed with the idea of Javtokas (good news is they didn't sign him).
5. Landed Elson and on the advice of Pop's "best friend" Larry Brown picked up a lazy turd in Butler that is the antithesis of the Spurs culture.
6. Used rights to Scola to dump Butler who will soon be seen eating his way into obscurity except in the minds of a few Spurs fans where he will remain a Spurs legend.
7. Standard Spurs fans who always blow the Holt is chaep whistle will blow that whistle loud and long meanwhile Spurs having tried to sign AMir Johnson will continue their pursuit for the logical need everyone recognizes in a long 3.
8. Scola will score some points against the Spurs in a loss to Houston and some Spurs will scream and pull out the clubby.

[Marcus Bryant]

That's one thing that really kills me about this trade. It's not like it makes the Spurs considerable worse off, if at all....but it makes a division rival considerably better.

The Rockets are now a more well rounded team and they have the personnel to survive the 10-15 games that Yao and McGrady will likely miss due to various injuries. Not saying they're up there with the Spurs...but this improves their chances in the west considerably.


Well, it's like taking a Kenny Thomas, Mo Taylor, or, well, Juwan Howard type 4 and giving him to the Rockets (oddly enough all 3 of those guys have spent time in Houston). Obviously it improves them over where they were, but yeah, it doesn't exactly make them serious contenders. Still, it sucks to see the Spurs willing to sell off talent to a very good team in their own division.

[picnroll]

Accomodating Scola gives Splitter confidence the Spurs are looking at players that they've drafted desires and interests. Just in case Tau tries to spin anything the way the ploto bitch would.

[freemeat]

I like this trade a LOT -- Scola will also never play in the NBA and the Spurs know it! The guy is about to sign another HUGE contract to continue playing in Europe. There's no reason for him to come play for a small market team in South Texas with all the attention (long term, max contracts as well as endorsement deals) he gets as the best player in Europe. Getting rid of Butler to open up a roster spot (as well as freeing up $2mil in salary) also gives the Spurs more money for their mid-level exception!

Bravo to the front office for making another smart move.

Ian Mahinmi will likely join the team and there should be plenty of space for Tiago Splitter next season.

I just wonder if there's one more similar move in the next few months to clear some space for Marcus Williams or if the team is set on letting him play for the Toros just to get a better feel for his game...

[Marcus Bryant]

I like this trade a LOT -- Scola will also never play in the NBA and the Spurs know it! The guy is about to sign another HUGE contract to continue playing in Europe. There's no reason for him to come play for a small market team in South Texas with all the attention (long term, max contracts as well as endorsement deals) he gets as the best player in Europe. Getting rid of Butler to open up a roster spot (as well as freeing up $2mil in salary) also gives the Spurs more money for their mid-level exception!

Bravo to the front office for making another smart move.

Ian Mahinmi will likely join the team and there should be plenty of space for Tiago Splitter next season.

I just wonder if there's one more similar move in the next few months to clear some space for Marcus Williams or if the team is set on letting him play for the Toros just to get a better feel for his game...

Yeah, maybe the Spurs and Scola duped the Rockets. Yeah.

[CosmicCowboy]

hmmm...from a negotiating standpoint Scola CAN now play Tau against the Rockets...

That would be the only thing that would make sense from this trade if Scola resigns with Tau for long term big bucks. With Splitter leaving next year Tau has a definite need for Scola in order to remain a top tier team.

[Marcus Bryant]

hmmm...from a negotiating standpoint Scola CAN now play Tau against the Rockets...

That would be the only thing that would make sense from this trade if Scola resigns with Tau for long term big bucks. With Splitter leaving next year Tau has a definite need for Scola in order to remain a top tier team.

Sure, if Scola spurns Houston then the Spurs will have gotten $6.1 mil in savings and cash plus a 2nd round pick for Butler. That would be like putting sugar on dogshit and calling it dessert, but I digress. Maybe the Spurs pulled one over on the stats geek, but I doubt it.

[Solid D]

I like this trade a LOT -- Scola will also never play in the NBA and the Spurs know it! The guy is about to sign another HUGE contract to continue playing in Europe. There's no reason for him to come play for a small market team in South Texas with all the attention (long term, max contracts as well as endorsement deals) he gets as the best player in Europe. Getting rid of Butler to open up a roster spot (as well as freeing up $2mil in salary) also gives the Spurs more money for their mid-level exception!

Bravo to the front office for making another smart move.

Ian Mahinmi will likely join the team and there should be plenty of space for Tiago Splitter next season.

I just wonder if there's one more similar move in the next few months to clear some space for Marcus Williams or if the team is set on letting him play for the Toros just to get a better feel for his game...

I'm sure Luis is loved and appreciated at Tau, but Vitoria Spain isn't exactly Houston, TX. A town of 200,000 people versus the 4th largest US city 10 times its size. Houston is the NBA's 10th largest TV market.

[fyatuk]

I know I'm in the minority, but this deal doesn't bother me.

Think if it as two separate deals put together.

1) Butler for Spani-whatever (Spurs trade Butler, who they weren't going to use, for someone who's contract they should be able to get rid of at low cost since he wants out and refuses to play, so this ends up being a roster spot + cash).

2) Scola for a second rounder (Spurs have been trying to get a first round pick with no takers, so obviously a second round pick is what they could get for him).

Neither part of that seems bad to me. Not exactly good, but not really bad either.

Certainly not a cataclysmic, end of the world, melo-dramatic worthy trade.

[freemeat]

There's no "duping" of any team here. The Spurs get salary space, a roster spot and cash for Jackie Butler. The Spurs need those things and the Rockets could use a guy like Butler more than the Spurs can. It's an upside-swing for both teams.

You have to consider Scola and the Greek dude as non-factors. Neither will play in the NBA since Spani-whatever last walked off the court. Mark my words.

Trades like these are mostly done as moves to clear space and salaries. It's not as though either team is going to win or lose ten extra games next season because of it! This is similar to the move made to acquire Melvin Ely. He was never going to get into the rotation and the Spurs expected that.

Good move.

[CosmicCowboy]

I just figured it out.

Spurs are clearing cap space so they can go after Jason Kidd next summer.

[Marcus Bryant]

Houston doesn't do this move if they weren't going to bring Scola over.

[freemeat]

I just figured it out.

Spurs are clearing cap space so they can go after Jason Kidd next summer.


no, no, no...they're gonna slowly clear space until the only three players under contract are Duncan, Manu and TP. Then, they can sign LeBron when he's available.

The Spurs will have a 4-man roster they play with every night. There will be no other player in the 12-man roster.

Now, that's a DYNASTY!

[Budkin]

Stop trying to pretend like this is just a ho-hum trade... we got fucked in the ass hard by the Rockets on this one.

[Dartherus]

There's no "duping" of any team here. The Spurs get salary space, a roster spot and cash for Jackie Butler. The Spurs need those things and the Rockets could use a guy like Butler more than the Spurs can. It's an upside-swing for both teams.

You have to consider Scola and the Greek dude as non-factors. Neither will play in the NBA since Spani-whatever last walked off the court. Mark my words.

Trades like these are mostly done as moves to clear space and salaries. It's not as though either team is going to win or lose ten extra games next season because of it! This is similar to the move made to acquire Melvin Ely. He was never going to get into the rotation and the Spurs expected that.

Good move.
what bothers is that for the same salary as Bonner, they could have gotten Scola, cause with Bonner's salary, Scola could have paid the buyout clause (the buyout was huge, 14+ mill euro, but if Tau didn't agree to a lower amount, Scola could have walked for free next year, cause it's his last year of contract).

[ArgSpursFan]

Houston doesn't do this move if they weren't going to bring Scola over.

That´s for damn sure.

[CosmicCowboy]

That´s for damn sure.

Scola's agent doesn't exactly seem to be in the same class as Lon Babby. Do you really think he wouldn't blow some smoke up the Rockets ass if he thought it strengthened his negotiating position? The highest bidder for the longest term will get Scola and don't be surprised if it's Tau.

[picnroll]

Better Scola goes to the Rockets for Splitter's development next year.

[ArgSpursFan]

Scola's agent doesn't exactly seem to be in the same class as Lon Babby. Do you really think he wouldn't blow some smoke up the Rockets ass if he thought it strengthened his negotiating position? The highest bidder for the longest term will get Scola and don't be surprised if it's Tau.

it has nothing to do with agents,or Tau.
Houston needs a scoring PF to help Yao,+ Howard is already what?35,36????
They want Scola,and Butler can be usefull for them too.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

it has nothing to do with agents,or Tau.
Houston needs a scoring PF to help Yao,+ Howard is already what?35,36????
They want Scola,and Butler can be usefull for them too.
Howard's in Minnesota.

[rascal]

This place has over valued Scola and Butler just is not a very good nba player.


The spurs felt that Scola and Butler will likely never amount to anything.
Why else would they trade them to a rival?

The Spurs were not going to bring Scola over and he was never going to play on the spurs so the spurs decided just to dump both of them.

I do think they could have gotten more back for these guys packaged together. Young bigs have some value and the spurs basically got almost nothing back in the deal.

I thought NJ had some interest in Butler.

There could also be another move soon that makes this deal make more sense.

[Sam]

what bothers is that for the same salary as Bonner, they could have gotten Scola, cause with Bonner's salary, Scola could have paid the buyout clause (the buyout was huge, 14+ mill euro, but if Tau didn't agree to a lower amount, Scola could have walked for free next year, cause it's his last year of contract).

Scola didn't want to play for us. Bonner doesn't play into this at all.

[picnroll]

Hey Sam any word on if Mahinmi has any potential at all?

[Sam]

Hey Sam any word on if Mahinmi has any potential at all?
I've only seen him play once so I wouldn't be able to critique him at all. I know that before the playoffs the Spurs wanted him over here for summer league and were hoping to sign him. But with his injury the rumors I'm hearing is that he goes back to Europe for another year. Seems like the Spurs and Bryan Colangelo are the ones using Europe as the minor leagues.

[ploto]

Accomodating Scola gives Splitter confidence the Spurs are looking at players that they've drafted desires and interests.
Spurs are 2 years too late for that. Players in Europe already know how the Spurs treated Scola.

[ploto]

Look I'm only telling you what I hear. They didn't like Butler and now he is gone. If they could have found someone that was willing to take him during the season then they would have gotten rid of him.
You're not telling ME anything that I don't already know. I just don't buy the inconsistent excuses that get spewed out from the Spurs summer after summer.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs are 2 years too late for that. Players in Europe already know how the Spurs treated Scola.

I've been saying this for years.

[Mr. Body]

Scola didn't want to play for us. Bonner doesn't play into this at all.

Signing Bonner cost us Scola and Butler.

[Sam]

You're not telling ME anything that I don't already know. I just don't buy the inconsistent excuses that get spewed out from the Spurs summer after summer.

All I know is from everything I've heard it hasn't been inconsistent at all, but what they put out in the media by playing nicey nice may be inconsistent. Butler's handwriting has been on the wall a long time. If James White doesn't straighten up then his is too.

[Sam]

Signing Bonner cost us Scola and Butler.

Not sure how you can say that. Scola didn't want to play for us so they were basically forced into a trade. Bonner and Butler don't even play the same position.

Plus I can tell you all year including end of the year evals, Bonner was rated higher than both.

[picnroll]

Spurs are 2 years too late for that. Players in Europe already know how the Spurs treated Scola.
Yeah I guess that's why the Greek kid was so disappointed when he heard the Spurs drafted him and overjoyed to find out he was traded to the Raptors. :drunk

Mensa Society. RIIIGHHTTTT. :lol

[vanvannen]

Not sure how you can say that. Scola didn't want to play for us so they were basically forced into a trade. Bonner and Butler don't even play the same position.

Plus I can tell you all year including end of the year evals, Bonner was rated higher than both.

You are wrong. Scola wanted desperately to play for the Spurs. He just got screwed by a shitty deal.

[E20]

I just reviewed this trade over again and this shit fucking sucks diareah up the dick. WE GOT NOTHING. We traded two assests FOR NOTHING, shit at least trade for some oxygen or a bonzai tree, instead WE GOT NOTHING, except a roster spot, but I don't think that was worth it to trade for NOTHING. GOD.............Key word here is NOTHING.

Holt should use that 4 million dollars and distribute to all the members at ST for our frustrations and agony.

[samikeyp]

Players in Europe already know how the Spurs treated Scola.

Don't they also know how the Spurs treated Parker and Ginobili?

[objective]

Facts or near facts:
1. 28 teams GMS, coaches, assistant coaches ballboys, etc. saw so little in Butler and Scola to make a trivial offer of a few bucks and a late second rounder.


lol

29 NBA GMs, Coaches, assistant Coaches, ballboys all saw so little in Walter Herrmann that he had to accept a deal on the cheap from a terrible expansion team that had 2 'faces of the franchise' ahead of him on the depth chart and he knew he'd be riding the bench.

Pretty weird for an Argentine and former ACB MVP to be so undervalued.

Gee, that couldn't happen again!

[objective]

No...the same footage ya'll have seen. I don't see how it be argued that either of them are a better fit for this team skil set wise than Ian.

Ian is an athletic rebounder and shotblocker type who hustles his butt off...at worst, he's going to be a big version of Malik.

for being such an athletic shotblocker, it's funny how Mahinmi's euroleague blocks per 40minutes were the same as . . . Luis Scola in 2007.

In 2006 actually Scola's bp40 were much better, close to twice as good.

[objective]

lol um no...we got brent for less money than jack got in atl....so ur wrong

lol, you do know that after turning down the Spurs lowball of 3/9 he had to sign in Atlanta for only $1 million don't you?

If the Spurs had just offered him a Barry type deal in 03, he'd still be a Spur.

Or in jail.

[whottt]

for being such an athletic shotblocker, it's funny how Mahinmi's euroleague blocks per 40minutes were the same as . . . Luis Scola in 2007.

In 2006 actually Scola's bp40 were much better, close to twice as good.



Ok so objective says Mahinimi is about the same caliber of shotblocker as Scola...

Noted and remembered.

[whottt]

lol, you do know that after turning down the Spurs lowball of 3/9 he had to sign in Atlanta for only $1 million don't you?

If the Spurs had just offered him a Barry type deal in 03, he'd still be a Spur.

Or in jail.

And we likely would not have Manu Ginobili now...




You aren't impressing me with your insight objective...

[objective]

For being such a poor shotblocker, it's weird how he and Mahinmi have the same stats.

huh, how would you explain it?

MAYBE, just maybe, it takes more than athleticism and leaping skills and long arms to be a good shotblocker.

Just look at Elson.

[objective]

And we likely would not have Manu Ginobili now...




You aren't impressing me with your insight objective...

and why wouldn't we have Ginobili now?

Same money would have been available to sign him, don't forget he and Barry signed the same summer.

Oh wait, because he wouldn't want to . . . come off the bench?

LOL

[Reggie Miller]

Some thoughts from a “neutral” basketball fan.

This was not a good trade for the Spurs for only one reason. They didn’t receive enough for both Butler and the rights to Scola. If this had been a straight up trade of Butler for the Melancholic Greek OR the rights to Scola for a second-round pick, I don’t think we’d see all the outrage. However, this amounts to two lopsided deals done for purely financial reasons, with no talent in return. I don’t think you’ll find anyone willing to say that this was a “great” deal for SA. The question then becomes, “How bad is it?”

It is important to remember that the NBA labor pool is not a zero-sum game. A player may be more valuable to Team A than to Team B or C. This is fairly self-evident, but I will cite an example. Compare Dennis Rodman’s worth to the Spurs to his value to the Pistons and Bulls.

In short, Scola’s rights and Butler had very little value to San Antonio. Conversely, these players represent much greater value to Houston. The problem is that the Spurs received little or no value in return, rather than receiving anything close to what the players were worth to Houston. This essentially happened twice in one trade. I understand that the Spurs were not in a good bargaining position, but you can’t get taken to the woodshed twice on the same deal.

My real concern is that when you are on top, it is difficult to stay there, and there is nowhere to go but downhill. Obviously, Butler wasn’t going to play significant minutes with the Spurs. The problem is that a team cannot continue to trade talent for cap relief, while receiving no talent in return. That is your classic downward spiral.

[AFBlue]

Well, it's like taking a Kenny Thomas, Mo Taylor, or, well, Juwan Howard type 4 and giving him to the Rockets (oddly enough all 3 of those guys have spent time in Houston). Obviously it improves them over where they were, but yeah, it doesn't exactly make them serious contenders. Still, it sucks to see the Spurs willing to sell off talent to a very good team in their own division.

I'd be willing to say that a 27yr old Luis Scola is more valuable than an over-the-hill Juwan Howard. Even if he's just as good, they pull even with their team from last year. Keep in mind, they also added Mike James, who adds some toughness, defense, and another scoring punch outside of Yao/McGrady. And of course there's Butler, who gives them additional depth at the 4 and 5 in case Yao gets hurt and/or Dikembe lives up to the expectation that his age brings...

Bottom Line: Spurs took the Rockets from a decent playoff-bound team in their division and made them a borderline Championship contender. People forget about the myriad of injuries and the lack of depth they had last year....Chuck Hayes is a good D-League player and 8th guy in the rotation, but he's not a starting PF.

[Bruno]

Bottom Line: Spurs took the Rockets from a decent playoff-bound team in their division and made them a borderline Championship contender.

I don't see how the fact that Rockets will spend their MLE on Scola (a rookie) will make them really better than spending their MLE on a player like Joe Smith.

[whottt]

For being such a poor shotblocker, it's weird how he and Mahinmi have the same stats.

huh, how would you explain it?

Um...because Scola is as good as he is ever going to be, plays starters minutes...and Ian has barely started playing, and got virtually no minutes last year.


You do realize it's completely assinine to compare per 48 minutes like this don't you? One guy is getting minutes...the other guy isn't.


If Tim Duncan only got 5 minutes per game do you think his per 48 stats would be the same?


You can't judge per 48 for a guy getting 5 minutes per game. He's barely getting time to get into the game and get warmed up.

Have you ever played sports before?




MAYBE, just maybe, it takes more than athleticism and leaping skills and long arms to be a good shotblocker.

Just look at Elson.


And just maybe if you'd ever watched Ian play you'd immediately back away from the claim that he and Scola are the same caliber of shotblocker...

[whottt]

Oh and thanks Sam...

So like I was saying, Scola is an asshole...


He's been an asshole since the night we drafted him...


It'd have been better if I wasn't drafted at all - Luis Scola Draft Night 2002.



And Arg Spurs fan...


Go root for the Rockets you dumb piece of shit....you're a bigger disgrace to Argentina than Delfino and Scola.

Manu and Oberto > Scola

You obviously feel different...take a fucking hike. Go root for TMac and Yao.


Scola is an asshole...I am glad he's not going to play for the Spurs...

[waly.mg]

I Only know one thing

In the NBA there´s a rule

"Never trade Big for Small"

What about: Trade 2 Bigs for 1 small"

[whottt]

So I guess all you Argies are going to jump ship to the Rockets now...

Adios. Sorry but every one born on Argentine soil doesn't shit gold no matter how you may want to believe it...


Two Argies play here and love it here...one doesn't.

I guess the two that do love it here don't matter as much as the asshole that doesn't.

Good luck enjoying the Rockets season this year...

Hope TMac stays healthy...hope Adelman can figure out a way to install his uptempo offense with the most down tempo C in the NBA.


As for me...I liked Oberto and Manu better than Scola from day one...I like their character better, I like the heart better...I like their willingness to believe in themselves enough to trust the Spurs to treat them fairly if it was what they deserved.


I watched Delfino whine like a little bitch about the minutes he deserved...and I have yet to see him justify it.


Scola has been a whining bitch since the night we drafted him...and the underlying reason is obvious...because he's a PF and the team that drafted him has the greatest PF in NBA history...figure it out...s'not Rocket Science...it was Scola that never wanted to be a Spur...


That's the first words out of his mouth the night he was drafted were: "it'd have been better if I hadn't been drafted at all."

Yeah...the Spurs were the assholes there.

[whottt]

And all you guys that think the Spurs are the asshole here need to take a look at the backstory between the Spurs and Robertas Javtokas...then tell me who the greedy assholes are.

All I know is players that are more worried about getting paid and featured than winning, don't belone on the Spurs...I want no part of them, and I've yet to regret losing one of them...

Whether their name was Derek Anderson...or Robertas Javtokas...or Luis Scola.


And Manu and Oberto are going to flush Scola...they are better than he is.

[whottt]

and why wouldn't we have Ginobili now?

Same money would have been available to sign him, don't forget he and Barry signed the same summer.

Oh wait, because he wouldn't want to . . . come off the bench?

LOL


Um...how in the hell do you figure Jack and Barry make the same amount?

[picnroll]

I guess this means that all the Spurs' fans now in full panic mode have elevated the Rockets to the top of the pile and the team the Spurs can't beat substituting them for last year's teams the Spurs can't beat the Mavs and Suns.

[Dartherus]

You are wrong. Scola wanted desperately to play for the Spurs. He just got screwed by a shitty deal.
That's correct, for Luis it would have been great to play in his first NBA year alongside real buddies like Oberto and Ginobili...BTW, there's wasn't a single badmouthing registered of Scola against the Spurs....I don't know why are people so sure Scola didn't want to come to Spurs.

[Dennis Lindsey]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4967005.html

Rockets reach 'basic agreement' with Scola
Deal would pay Argentine star $10 million over three years

Complete Rockets coverage The Rockets have come to a "basic agreement" with Argentine star Luis Scola, less than 24 hours after acquiring his draft rights from the San Antonio Spurs.

"We're working on the contract, but we've got a basic agreement, an understanding," George Bass, Scola's agent said Friday.

"He's actually taking the physical right now in Argentina."

The Rockets traded guard Vassilis Spanoulis, a 2009 second-round draft pick and cash to the Spurs for the rights to Scola and center Jackie Butler.

Scola is expected to sign a three-year deal worth roughly $10 million.

"He's so excited, he probably didn't sleep a wink last night." Bass said.

"He's thrilled, this has been his dream for five years."



:danceclub

[Buddy Holly]

3 years woth 10 million when he has an offer from Tau for 5 years 14 million?

[Dartherus]

3 years woth 10 million when he has an offer from Tau for 5 years 14 million?
10 mill euro, probably tax-free (most Tau contracts are listed Tax free, Rakocevic, Scola's teammate, earns 1.1 mill euro tax-free)...

That's for the ones saying Scola was looking for money as his primary reason, he'll get less than what is offered in Europe to play in the NBA...

I still insist that there was never a documented evidence of him badmouthing the Spurs, neither evidence of him demanding huge salaries....and I insist that it was a HUGE mistake FO not being able to give Scola the same money given to Bonner in a contract.

[SuperManu!!!]

This must be the worst trade in spurs history

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ok, that is such a bad trade that it's hard to believe.

We gave away a 22yo big man with potential and SCOLA for a guard who has said:

""It's not about money. It's not about playing time. It's not about anything else. They could trade him to San Antonio and he could be the starting point guard, and he would he would say, 'No, I cannot.' "

:wtf

That is a HORRIBLE move. Surely they could have packaged Beno and Scola for something better than that and kept Butler??? :pctoss

Is this part of the 2008 FA plan? It frees up about 3 mil from Butler, how much over the MLE will we be able to offer now, anyone?

[Booharv]

I really can't belive this was the best we could have gotten for those two.

[spurscenter]

i think Dennis also got a nice tip from Rockets

[ploto]

Here is possibly more on the deal that fell through that would have sent Scola to Cleveland and Butler to Sacramento.


The on-again, off-again, on-again trade discussions with the Sacramento Kings about point guard Mike Bibby are off again, according to several sources close to the situation. The deal, according to the sources, would have included Drew Gooden, Damon Jones and a third team. But somewhere between that third team, possibly the San Antonio Spurs, the deal fell through.


http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1184402488217511.xml&coll=2

[picnroll]

Ludden in an E-mail respone to questons, posted on a thread here I think, said Cleveland wanted Scola but wanted no part of Butler. It seems, contrary to widespread belief here, Butler is viewed as undesireable by teams because he's incapable of communicating on the floor and is a BIG defensive liability. That most GMs were amazed that Butler was ever signed by the Spurs knowing he could never fit in with their complex defensive scheme. Maybe Pop's hubris that he can teach anybody to play defense got the better of him.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

That explains a lot.

[O-Factor]

I like how we prevented Mike Bibby to the Cavs :clap

[O-Factor]

And all you guys that think the Spurs are the asshole here need to take a look at the backstory between the Spurs and Robertas Javtokas...then tell me who the greedy assholes are.

All I know is players that are more worried about getting paid and featured than winning, don't belone on the Spurs...I want no part of them, and I've yet to regret losing one of them...

Whether their name was Derek Anderson...or Robertas Javtokas...or Luis Scola.


And Manu and Oberto are going to flush Scola...they are better than he is.

Oberto will be in his third year in the league and should show even more improvement in his game and in Pop' s scheme. Scola will be in his first and experience growing pains much like Oberto did in his forgettable first year with us. I'll take a more experienced Oberto.

[SRJ]

I'd like to see something in the form of a quote or a link indicating that Luis Scola wanted to play in San Antonio.

The following scenario just doesn't add up to me:

1) The Spurs had his rights
2) The Spurs were high on Scola
3) The Spurs and Scola can't get a deal done for years, then
4) A day after his rights are traded to a new team, Scola is agreeing to a deal

Were the Spurs offering THAT much less than the Rockets, or did Scola just not want to come?

[picnroll]

Scola would want to go to a team where in the years of his contract he could establish value just like Manu and Nocioni did. What were the chances Scola would get significant playing time, particularly in year one? Particualrly that the Spurs' alpha dog is the leagues premier low post player, the place where Scola makes his living. Why is it a surprise Scoal didn't want to come to the Spurs? Houston and their void of PFs is ideal for Scola to cash in on his next contract.

[dbestpro]

The Spurs did this to themselves. The trade value of Scola and Bulter were created by the Spurs. The could have signed Scola and given playing time to Butler to create value in the early season and traded them by the deadline so as to not affect the cap.
Fans are upset because of all the teams to win a championship we know in our hearts that this is the team least likely to succeed. The Spurs basically won last year because they were the last team standing, not because they were dominant. Age is still a factor. We will always compete with the big three but most fans believe we need one more young player who could put up 20 on any given night to put the pressure on the rest of the league. Personnel wise we seem to be playing down to the rest of the league.

[SRJ]

Fans are upset because of all the teams to win a championship we know in our hearts that this is the team least likely to succeed.

How do you arrive at this?

Dallas is very formidable, the biggest obstacle around, I'll give you that.
Chicago will be very tough next year, I'll give you that. But -
Phoenix cannot play with us.
Utah is pretty tough, but they're still at least a year away.
Detroit is fading. So is Miami.
Cleveland lacks firepower.
Portland isn't there yet. The Lakers blow ass.

You think in that bunch the Spurs are the LEAST likely to succeed?? Please.


The Spurs basically won last year because they were the last team standing, not because they were dominant.

16-4 in the playoffs is not dominant now? Boy, standards are really tightening around here.

[Booharv]

Do either of them have injuries or something? I really can't understand a second round pick for both of em otherwise.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Nope. They're as healthy as can be.

[xmas1997]

The problem, apparently and unfortunately for the Spurs, is that as "bad" as this trade was, to do nothing would have been worse!

[Sam]

Were the Spurs offering THAT much less than the Rockets, or did Scola just not want to come?

He did not want to come. Scola wants to be the "big dog" somewhere. He believes that T-Mac is old and injured. Yao is soft so that he can be a star on the Rockets. He could not be "the man" or the "the star" on the Spurs. He was told that the Spurs were a team and he did not want to be a part of that.

[picnroll]

He did not want to come. Scola wants to be the "big dog" somewhere. He believes that T-Mac is old and injured. Yao is soft so that he can be a star on the Rockets. He could not be "the man" or the "the star" on the Spurs. He was told that the Spurs were a team and he did not want to be a part of that.
If all that is true Scola is screwwwed. Enjoy your five touches a game Louis.

[ploto]

He did not want to come. Scola wants to be the "big dog" somewhere. He believes that T-Mac is old and injured. Yao is soft so that he can be a star on the Rockets. He could not be "the man" or the "the star" on the Spurs. He was told that the Spurs were a team and he did not want to be a part of that.
We understand your role on here is to post a bunch of crap to make the Spurs look good and everyone else- like Butler and Scola- look bad. But too much has happened for people to buy it.

Scola has come off the bench for the national team. To paint him as some selfish guy who did not want to play team ball makes you look stupid.

THE SPURS HAVE NEVER EVEN MADE AN OFFER TO SCOLA.

You lost all credibilty the day you claimed that Beno was not intellectually prepared for games because of a language problem.

[picnroll]

We understand your role on here is to post a bunch of crap to make the Spurs look good and everyone else- like Butler and Scola- look bad. But too much has happened for people to buy it.

Scola has come off the bench for the national team. To paint him as some selfish guy who did not want to play team ball makes you look stupid.

THE SPURS HAVE NEVER EVEN MADE AN OFFER TO SCOLA.
What's your role on here? You sure don't know much, get a lot wrong trying to make the Spurs' management look bad. Other than that what? Are you Rasho's period?

[ploto]

What have I gotten wrong about how the Spurs operate?

They screwed Scola over for 2 years- that is why he had no interest in playing for them. They never even made him an offer all those years. They lied to the media about the amount of his buy out and his supposed contract demands when an offer was never even made. Now, supposedly, they care so much about him. Pure BS.

They bad mouthed Butler publicly the day before they traded him. Right on that one too.

[SRJ]

We understand your role on here is to post a bunch of crap to make the Spurs look good and everyone else- like Butler and Scola- look bad. But too much has happened for people to buy it.

Scola has come off the bench for the national team. To paint him as some selfish guy who did not want to play team ball makes you look stupid.

THE SPURS HAVE NEVER EVEN MADE AN OFFER TO SCOLA.

Any kind of proof? Links? Inside information? Because it's hard to believe that they didn't make one single offer during this whole time.

[ploto]

Any kind of proof? Links? Inside information? Because it's hard to believe that they didn't make one single offer during this whole time.
Ask anyone who knows. They never even made him an offer.

Kori has confirmed that she has heard the same thing.

[drmvp]

I'd be willing to say that a 27yr old Luis Scola is more valuable than an over-the-hill Juwan Howard. Even if he's just as good, they pull even with their team from last year. Keep in mind, they also added Mike James, who adds some toughness, defense, and another scoring punch outside of Yao/McGrady. And of course there's Butler, who gives them additional depth at the 4 and 5 in case Yao gets hurt and/or Dikembe lives up to the expectation that his age brings...

Bottom Line: Spurs took the Rockets from a decent playoff-bound team in their division and made them a borderline Championship contender. People forget about the myriad of injuries and the lack of depth they had last year....Chuck Hayes is a good D-League player and 8th guy in the rotation, but he's not a starting PF.

Also:

Bonzi Wells is back with daddy Adelman, happy, and motivated in a contract year;
Aaron Brooks (#26 pick) has been tremendous in the summer league; Adelman loves this kid.
Carl Landry (#31 pick) has shown flashes in the summer league.

Furthermore, Yao will be better when occasionally positioned in the mid-to-high post in Adelman's scheme. That will better utilize his mid-range shot and excellent passing skills to cutters, and it will allow Scola room to roam along the low post.

[picnroll]

Ask anyone who knows. They never even made him an offer.

Kori has confirmed that she has heard the same thing.
ploto since you seem to know so much about Scola's situation exactly what was the dollar amount of Scola's buy out in the summer of '05? And while you're at it what was the Spurs greatest position of need to fill with their MLE in the summer of '06 after dumping Rasho the Timid and Nazr the Dense? What offers did they get for Scola if/when they tried to trade him and should they have traded him regardless of the offer? Should the Lakers FO show good faith and trade Kobe regardoless of the offer since that's what he wants? Are they as bad as the Spurs since they don't seem to be willing to oblige Kobe?

[SRJ]

So Kori, or "anyone who knows" (how they would know this would be helpful), if this is true, why? What kind of a Bizarro, tortured strategy is that?


We love this Scola guy, and we're gonna invest a draft pick on him. In fact, we like him so much, we're not going to make even a half-assed attempt to sign him to a contract, and furthermore, we'll give him away for basically nothing.

This just doesn't add up. Why even draft guys at all if this is the plan of attack? Something just doesn't add up.

[xmas1997]

So Kori, or "anyone who knows" (how they would know this would be helpful), if this is true, why? What kind of a Bizarro, tortured strategy is that?



This just doesn't add up. Why even draft guys at all if this is the plan of attack? Something just doesn't add up.

IMHO the hope was that Scola would develop his defense to go along with his really good offense.
Apparently he never did judging by the Spurs FO reactions each year.
Thus he apparently became trade bait, but nothing materialized that was condusive to the Spurs enough to warrant being brought over or traded as evidenced by Pop stating that all that was offered was "stupid".
In an ideal world, we should have gotten a high 1st round draft choice for his rights.
But this is not an ideal world, and no one wants to help the NBA champs be better.
Damn!!!!!!!!!!!! :dramaquee

[AFBlue]

So Kori, or "anyone who knows" (how they would know this would be helpful), if this is true, why? What kind of a Bizarro, tortured strategy is that?



This just doesn't add up. Why even draft guys at all if this is the plan of attack? Something just doesn't add up.

They were reportedly hopeful about bringing him over in summer of 2005, but the buyout with Tau prevented that from occuring, so they went with Oberto. That pretty much sealed his fate as a future member of this Spurs team.

But whether or not he was ever going to play for the Spurs is not the issue. The issue is what they got in return for him. If Scola turns out to be an unmitigated disaster for the Rockets, then perhaps the late-second round pick in 2009 will be justified.....BUT if he has even a halfway decent few years with the Rockets, it will have been a bad move by the Spurs FO.

If they couldn't sign him, they should've just let him sign a mega-deal overseas....

For the record, I think Scola will do fine in this league. I don't think he'll be a superstar, but if you give him 25-30MPG, he'll score in the double digits and get you 4-5 RPG....and that's not "bust" material.

[venitian navigator]

Well, I really think that this, talent wise, has been an awful trade...first 'cause we just had in return a roster spot and the chance not to pay luxury tax, second 'cause we enforced a team in the west we'll play against a lot of times.
I seriously doubt that Scola will not be a good player...and Butler, after all, could be not that bad.
The Rock's front line will be now : Battier - Hayes - Ming
Scola - Mutombo (Butler)
After all, not a bad one...

The point is that, obviously, NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE SOMETHING OF VALUE TO A TITLE CONTENDER and, consequently, we didn't receive better offers...so is a trade we have to say about : better than nothing

But I'm sure a lot of teams are gonna regret they didn't offer more for us for Scola (and, perhaps, for Butler too).
Expecially the ones (like Chicago) were Scola could have been an exceptional fit (and they had a lot of options for trading...)!

[Mr. Body]

The point is that, obviously, NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE SOMETHING OF VALUE TO A TITLE CONTENDER and, consequently, we didn't receive better offers...so is a trade we have to say about : better than nothing


We practically just made a championship contender. They have some work to do, but we gave Houston EXACTLY what they needed. For nothing.

[xmas1997]

Well, I really think that this, talent wise, has been an awful trade...first 'cause we just had in return a roster spot and the chance not to pay luxury tax, second 'cause we enforced a team in the west we'll play against a lot of times.
I seriously doubt that Scola will not be a good player...and Butler, after all, could be not that bad.
The Rock's front line will be now : Battier - Hayes - Ming
Scola - Mutombo (Butler)
After all, not a bad one...

The point is that, obviously, NOBODY WANTS TO GIVE SOMETHING OF VALUE TO A TITLE CONTENDER and, consequently, we didn't receive better offers...so is a trade we have to say about : better than nothing

But I'm sure a lot of teams are gonna regret they didn't offer more for us for Scola (and, perhaps, for Butler too).
Expecially the ones (like Chicago) were Scola could have been an exceptional fit (and they had a lot of options for trading...)!

I agree 100%. :depressed

[drmvp]

... But I'm sure a lot of teams are gonna regret they didn't offer more for us for Scola (and, perhaps, for Butler too).
Expecially the ones (like Chicago) were Scola could have been an exceptional fit (and they had a lot of options for trading...)!

That does puzzle me. However, most GM's aren't generally that bright.
...

Frankly, I don't understand why the Spurs felt compelled to make any trade.

So what if Scola's deadline was near.

So what if he'd sign a contract in Europe and never play in the NBA.

So what if the Spurs would get nothing in return as the trade-Scola proponents feared.

Nothing? Haha.

They should have just let him rot in Europe. Better that than having him potentially come back to haunt the Spurs as an adversary!

It seems the Spurs feared that Scola would sneak into their practice facilities with an AK-47 and go postal if they didn't trade him. Was the Argentinean mafia making implicit threats? Was Pop worried about being kidnapped on his next trip down there? Something is bizarre about all this.



























Anyway...as a Rockets fan, I'm thrilled to have Scola! :smokin

[Russ]

It seems clear that Jackie Butler was viewed around the league as a liability that you would have to pair with an asset in order to move. Scola was the asset.

Scola may be a first-rate player or a bust -- it's hard to predict because there is no NBA player that he can be compared to. Maybe Sharif Abdur Raheem? I saw some publshed report calling Scola "athletic." If so, he'll be an all star with his size and shooting touch.

I very seriously doubt it. I think Scola is slow and lumbering. A smaller, slower, thicker Rasho. But others disagree so we'll see.

[td4mvp3]

That does puzzle me. However, most GM's aren't generally that bright.
...

Frankly, I don't understand why the Spurs felt compelled to make any trade.

So what if Scola's deadline was near.

So what if he'd sign a contract in Europe and never play in the NBA.

So what if the Spurs would get nothing in return as the trade-Scola proponents feared.

Nothing? Haha.

They should have just let him rot in Europe. Better that than having him potentially come back to haunt the Spurs as an adversary!

It seems the Spurs feared that Scola would sneak into their practice facilities with an AK-47 and go postal if they didn't trade him. Was the Argentinean mafia making implicit threats? Was Pop worried about being kidnapped on his next trip down there? Something is bizarre about all this.



























Anyway...as a Rockets fan, I'm thrilled to have Scola! :smokin
maybe they really did care about this guy and his dream to play in the states but knew they couldn't open up a spot for him here that he would enjoy and flourish in? i'm as cynical as anybody, but if all that is being said is true about the idiocy of this trade, maybe that has merit. but then again, maybe butler was so bad they had to sweeten the deal of someone taking him.

[Booharv]

Nope. They're as healthy as can be.
I must be retarded then, because I can't understand this at all.

[timvp]

You Jackie Butler haters better be right. In Butler's two games with the Rockets in the summer league, he totaled:

30 minutes
21 points
9-for-12 from the field
8 rebounds
4 assists
2 blocks
2 fouls

Even the most hardcore Butler hater has to admit that isn't a half bad line. If Butler and Scola both turn out to be players . . . this trade is going to be damn ugly.

[whottt]

You Jackie Butler haters better be right. In Butler's two games with the Rockets in the summer league, he totaled:

30 minutes
21 points
9-for-12 from the field
8 rebounds
4 assists
2 blocks
2 fouls

Even the most hardcore Butler hater has to admit that isn't a half bad line. If Butler and Scola both turn out to be players . . . this trade is going to be damn ugly.



Jackie has got offensive game...it's everything else that sucks..and we need a SF.


If you can show me that the Spurs could have moved Jackie for a draft pick or a talented SF...I'll concede it was a bad trade.

If the Spurs don't try get a talented SF this offseason, with the slot avail, I'll concede it was a bad trade.

Other than that...Jackie showed no improvement...he looked lost in summerleague, after a year with the team, and the worst crime he commited?

Pop told him to get in shape...he ran Jackie's butt off all last season, the season has barely been over for a month and he was in horrible shape.

Ian OTOH, got into shape like he was asked...and he has the skill set that fits the Spurs better.


What did you want the Spurs do to? Park him on the roster, where he won't play, at the expense of filling a need? That hurts us....


And they couldn't put him in the D-League either...to get minutes to improve.

[timvp]

He's a center barely old enough to drink. Not everyone is going to enter the league like Tony Parker and be ready to ball as a youngster.

Newsflash, if you sign a young player, don't expect the player to be a hardworking saint from the moment he steps into the organization. How many players who joined the Spurs before the age of 25 stuck around for more than a couple seasons? Take out the players with All-Star talent like Duncan and Parker.

Who are you left with?

Seriously, there is nobody. The Spurs and their fans expect young players to come on board and be balling saints who not only are All-Star level talents but also have the character of a veteran who has been around the league and grown up.

Devin Brown got a bad rep because he didn't enter the league like he was a 35-year-old Mario Elie who breathed and lived basketball. Jackie Butler gets run out of town because he still has growing up to do at 22.

The Spurs wonder why they are old and at the same time get frustrated and ship out any youth that the team ever gets. Even quality youth. Devin Brown, the best three point shooter in the playoffs in franchise history, has leprosy according to the Spurs and their fans.

Amazing.

[Kori Ellis]

If the Spurs don't try get a talented SF this offseason, with the slot avail, I'll concede it was a bad trade.



Who do you think they are going after?

[objective]

If the Spurs don't try get a talented SF this offseason, with the slot avail, I'll concede it was a bad trade.

Would you consider Udoka a talented SF? Just supposing he were signed that is.

He's awfully small for a small forward. Without shoes I wouldn't be too shocked if he measured at 6-3.75, though he's more likely to be 6-4 in socks I suppose.

[whottt]

He's a center barely old enough to drink. Not everyone is going to enter the league like Tony Parker and be ready to ball as a youngster.

Is Ian even old enough to drink? How much slack does he get? And he plays harder than Butler. He's also been in the fold longer.





Newsflash, if you sign a young player, don't expect the player to be a hardworking saint from the moment he steps into the organization. How many players who joined the Spurs before the age of 25 stuck around for more than a couple seasons? Take out the players with All-Star talent like Duncan and Parker.

Who are you left with?

Fair enough...but we have bigger needs than developing a scoring big right now.


Seriously, there is nobody. The Spurs and their fans expect young players to come on board and be balling saints who not only are All-Star level talents but also have the character of a veteran who has been around the league and grown up.

Devin Brown got a bad rep because he didn't enter the league like he was a 35-year-old Mario Elie who breathed and lived basketball. Jackie Butler gets run out of town because he still has growing up to do at 22.

The Spurs wonder why they are old and at the same time get frustrated and ship out any youth that the team ever gets. Even quality youth. Devin Brown, the best three point shooter in the playoffs in franchise history, has leprosy according to the Spurs and their fans.

Amazing.


Sin,

Beno Udrih



I agree with what you are saying...but exactly how much longer do you expect our window to be open?


And Devin's youth isn't what bothered me...it was his poise, I didn't like his Webberesque moment against the Rockets...that wasn't an inexperience mistake...time outs exist from day 1 in basketball. It was a choke. An unforced mental error under pressure...a major one. It wasn't like it was a complicated situation...it was a simple situation. In any case...I would have kept him probably over Finley...I just didn't want him on the court in pressure moments.

As for the rest of it...youth is one thing...
But if the guys aren't doing what Pop asks, if they can't do what he asks...it's really not fair to Duncan to waste much time on them. And it's really not in the best interest of the Spurs during this era.

It's one thing if it's just inexperience...but when it's maturity issues...for marginal talents...I don't blame the Spurs for moving on to someone serious about improving and helping this team win.


I liked Jackie Butler...I honestly did. You can tell he's a good kid...but I agree with the Spurs decision to favor Ian over him, or move him to make room for Udoka.


He shouldn't have looked that lost and out of shape after a year on this team...he showed no improvement and pretty much looked like he did in Spurs games all year....in the summer league.

I really don't see any difference between he and Mahinmi or Sanikidze at this point...except he's been with the team a year and showed no improvement, and their skills are more inline with what the Spurs need and will need in the immediate future.

[Mr. Body]

Jackie has got offensive game...it's everything else that sucks..and we need a SF.



Where is the SF coming from, you idiot? There's no plan to get a SF. Possibly Udoka, if that counts, but this trade had nothing to do with getting a 3 - it only was to shed salary. THAT'S IT.

[whottt]

Where is the SF coming from, you idiot? There's no plan to get a SF.



Possibly Udoka, if that counts,

Dipshit...are you often in the habit of answering your own questions? As you call people stupid for drawing the same conclusion?





but this trade had nothing to do with getting a 3 - it only was to shed salary. THAT'S IT.

Link?

What part of there is a limit to roster spots don't you get...tool.

[timvp]

And Devin's youth isn't what bothered me...it was his poise, I didn't like his Webberesque moment against the Rockets...that wasn't an inexperience mistake...time outs exist from day 1 in basketball. It was a choke. An unforced mental error under pressure...a major one. It wasn't like it was a complicated situation...it was a simple situation. In any case...I would have kept him probably over Finley...I just didn't want him on the court in pressure moments.

:lmao

Devin had one mistake as a Spur. Name another time he "choked". He's the best three-point shooter in franchise history in the playoffs. He led the team in plus/minus against the Lakers in 2004. Even when he had back trouble during the 2005 playoffs, he still hit his threes.

Barry and Finley have both choked way more than Devin did. And Devin's horrible choke came in the regular season. Barry and Finley have choked in the playoffs. Devin never choked in the playoffs ... he got better.

Devin was the reason 2004 didn't turn into 2001 against the Lakers. He basically won the point four game until Fisher's shot. He played Kobe most of the second half. Name another time in Spurs history that Pop has gone with someone other than Bowen against the best perimeter player on the other team in a playoff game.

Not signing Devin to a minimum deal last summer was a mistake. Now the Spurs have to cough up money to someone like Udoka. But yeah, Devin didn't have the professionalism of Sean Elliott out of the box so he had to go.

:jack

[ArgSpursFan]

...talking about Spurs F.O mistakes,I said if the spurs traded Scola for nothing it would be the F.O.´s biggest mistake,just behind Leting D.Brown walk away. :reading

[wildbill2u]

What would have happened if the Spurs had merely renounced their rights to Scola if they had no use for him.? Would that have cost them anything?

Might've been better for Scola if he was a free agent at that point? But then we wouldn't have got the money or V-span contract to offset.

I don't see either of them getting much playing time in the next year(s) with the Spurs so I can't be too upset about the 'loss' of their skills.

[Horry For 3!]

I come back from vacation and read this....

:shootme

[bigsexy]

Thank you Lindsey......................Scola & Butler will work just fine in Rocket Red.

Thank you San Antonio or should i say Gracias guey!

[Cherry]

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/9284/692453rr5.jpg

somebody shoot me! :lmao







Ok, good luck Luis :toast

[Mr. Body]

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/9284/692453rr5.jpg



Bizarro universe. I just woke up from a coma... Wha- Is that Luis Scola, with a Rockets jersey? The Houston Rockets? Hmm... I wonder who the Spurs got for him. Maybe it was part of a Battier trade? Spurs'd have to give up a bit more for Shane, but still I like it. Wait... is that Rick Adelman? WHAT'S GOING ON?

[Clutch20]

Adelman + Scola = abort rocket launch, abort, abort.............
___________________________

“They do a great job of their system and staying true to form,
making big plays in big moments,” Suns coach Mike D'Antoni
told reporters in Phoenix on Thursday. “That's what we're
trying to get. Mental toughness, being lucky, I don't know
what it is.”

The Spurs, D”Antoni added, just seem to “believe a little bit
more.”
“All the time,” he said.

[manufor3]

now this is looking like a worse deal then ever...

[T Park]

get

over

it

[timvp]

To The Freaking Rockets At Least Trade Them To The East This Is Going To Be The Worst Trade In Spurs History Omg Shoot Me Now
:depressed

[vander]

:lol

man, at the very least, this trade was a huge slap in the face to Spurs fans just to save Holt some :bling :bling

so show him he can't pull one over on Spurs fans, everybody boycott one home playoff game, preferably against Houston :lol

[SenorSpur]

Think the Spurs could've at least gotten a player like rookie Greg Landry in return. But after all, the Spurs were merely shedding salary. I get it.

[Kori Ellis]

:lol

man, at the very least, this trade was a huge slap in the face to Spurs fans just to save Holt some :bling :bling

so show him he can't pull one over on Spurs fans, everybody boycott one home playoff game, preferably against Houston :lol

He didn't really save any money. They just chose to give Scola's money to Bonner.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, it was basically "We think Bonner is better for our team than Scola."

Oh, that plus "We'd rather trade Scola for nothing than get young players for him."


On the bright side, one of my best friends is a Rockets fan, so it's good to see him happy.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Spurs just got owned by the Rockets spy aka Dennis Lindsey. His girly last name should have been a clue.

:rollin

[whottt]

:depressed



Because Scola in Cleveland would be less dangerous than Scola in Hou(we have an injury)ston. :tu

[Solid D]

Easily the worst trade in Spurs' history. The Spurs, like us, would like to put the trade behind them.....but now that the Rockets have caught the Spurs, it is no longer behind them. It is running astride of them...reminding them with each stride of how foolish it really was.

From the moment news of this trade broke that Scola had been dumped to their I-10 rival with a new passing-game offense, I have been disgusted with the Spurs' management. Will they ever be able to write off this "charitible contribution"?

[whottt]

Easily the worst trade in Spurs' history. The Spurs, like us, would like to put the trade behind them.....but now that the Rockets have caught the Spurs, it is no longer behind them. It is running astride of them...reminding them with each stride of how foolish it really was.

From the moment news of this trade broke that Scola had been dumped to their I-10 rival with a new passing-game offense, I have been disgusted with the Spurs' management. Will they ever be able to write off this "charitible contribution"?


:depressed

[ShoogarBear]

Wow, I've never seen Solid D go off like that.

[ShoogarBear]

And are all these just cheap attempts to skirt around the Official Scola Thread? :lol

[whottt]

Wow, I've never seen Solid D go off like that.


He went off the day the trade happened IIRC.

[Solid D]

Lol, well I have hardly hidden my disgust since day-1. Fortunately, Presti helped the Spurs out with the Thomas and Barry gift but Presti couldn't do anything about Houston's gain.

[timvp]

No worries. Maybe the Spurs can just trade a second round pick for Scola this summer.

:tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This will all be settled once and for all when we meet Houston in the West Finals and beat them in a sweep with Kurt shutting down Scola every game.

[timvp]

No worries. Maybe the Spurs can just trade a second round pick for Scola this summer.

:tu


ROFL

[Capt Bringdown]

Easily the worst trade in Spurs' history. The Spurs, like us, would like to put the trade behind them.....but now that the Rockets have caught the Spurs, it is no longer behind them. It is running astride of them...reminding them with each stride of how foolish it really was.


I think the jury's still out on the "worst ever" verdict.
But it is looking very very bad at the moment. A massive blunder and miscalculation on the Spurs part, no doubt.

'For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'


From yahoo's "Ball Dont Lie (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/nba_experts/post/Rockets-Moneyball-approach-paying-dividends;_ylt=ApDK1_KF7eRrSev7KE4oNMq8vLYF?urn=nb a,71528) " sports blog:


It's true: Morey has done an extraordinary job filling out the Rockets' line-up with unheralded players, most notably by stealing Scola from the Spurs this summer. (Forget Pau, Kidd or Shaq ... could that have been the biggest trade of the season? Crazy.)

[Hemotivo]

:lol

[Mr. Body]

Lol, well I have hardly hidden my disgust since day-1. Fortunately, Presti helped the Spurs out with the Thomas and Barry gift but Presti couldn't do anything about Houston's gain.

The Kurt Thomas trade is extremely minor compared to just jacking ourselves over Luis Scola. It doesn't really compare. I'd far, far rather have Scola now and in the future. And Houston not have Scola, obviously, at the same tmie.

[SenorSpur]

Easily the worst trade in Spurs' history. The Spurs, like us, would like to put the trade behind them.....but now that the Rockets have caught the Spurs, it is no longer behind them. It is running astride of them...reminding them with each stride of how foolish it really was.

From the moment news of this trade broke that Scola had been dumped to their I-10 rival with a new passing-game offense, I have been disgusted with the Spurs' management. Will they ever be able to write off this "charitible contribution"?

This was akin to the Suns giving Kurt Thomas away to the Sonics to save $$$

[SenorSpur]

Yeah, it was basically "We think Bonner is better for our team than Scola."

Oh, that plus "We'd rather trade Scola for nothing than get young players for him."

If either RC or Pop really believed this, one of them should resign immediately.

[Bruno]

:lol @ people bumping this thread.

Right now, Scola has done nothing worth turning this trade into an horrible one.

I don't know what was the exact reason but Spurs didn't want to sign Scola.
After that, their only solution was to trade him and they have traded him for the best offer they got.
They got a disappointing return but it's not Spurs fault if no teams were ready to give up a first round pick for him.

[Spurminator]

Well, at least Butler sucks.

[Mr. Body]

Right now, Scola has done nothing worth turning this trade into an horrible one.

!!!

[Bruno]

!!!

:rolleyes

[Solid D]

Scola is a key ingredient in the Rockets success this year. His all-around contributions - his screen setting, his passing, hustle, moving to space, scoring, and rebounding. During the 20-game win streak Luis has increased his production, averaging 26 mpg, 11 ppg and 6.5 rpg. In the 8 games without Yao he is giving them 12 ppg and almost 8 rpg in 28 mpg.

He's got tangibles and intangibles, as does Shane Battier. They are an impressive team to watch.

[Mr. Body]

:rolleyes

I mean, what the fuck are you talking about? Look at the Rockets. You say we couldn't use that player? :rolleyes

[Bruno]

I mean, what the fuck are you talking about? Look at the Rockets. You say we couldn't use that player? :rolleyes

Rockets are a fluke team on a fluke streak and Scola is nothing special.
The hype around them is similar to the hype around Portland when they won 13 straight game.

We will see when the dust will settle and knee jerk reactions will be gone.

[Solid D]

I respectfully disagree. You aren't a fluke when you hold teams to 41% shooting and 89 ppg during the 20-game streak.

[timvp]

Considering tangibles and intangibles, I think Scola has an argument for being the best player on the Rockets during their 20-game streak. Not only are his stats pretty good but his defense is actually a whole lot better than I expected, he can really rebound and the guy sets more solid screens than almost anyone in the league.

I know Spurs fans who backed the trade are contractually obligated to hate Scola and diminish success by both Scola and the Rockets but it's actually pretty damn lame now. Watch one game and see how good the Rockets are and how much Scola means to their success.

[Solid D]

On the other hand, if Scola and Battier went down with injuries, that Rocket ship would crash into the sea.

[Holt's Cat]

Because the Spurs couldn't use a player like Scola and obviously his ability to hit the 20 foot J and run the floor means that he couldn't play together with Tim Duncan.

That has to be the worst trade in Spurs' history. Predictably, it occurred because Peter Holt wanted to save a couple bucks.

[Holt's Cat]

One would think the Rockets could get a 1st round pick this summer if they wanted to move him.

I don't get it. At least the Spurs know how to draft international talent (when they know the birthday of said talent). Why the fuck did they give that talent away? Especially with Horry on the decline.

[whottt]

Considering tangibles and intangibles, I think Scola has an argument for being the best player on the Rockets during their 20-game streak. Not only are his stats pretty good but his defense is actually a whole lot better than I expected, he can really rebound and the guy sets more solid screens than almost anyone in the league.

So Scola > Parker, Manu and Duncan?

I mean...they've never won 20 games in a row.

Scola better than Shaq? He's never won 20.





I know Spurs fans who backed the trade are contractually obligated to hate Scola and diminish success by both Scola and the Rockets but it's actually pretty damn lame now. Watch one game and see how good the Rockets are and how much Scola means to their success.


And I know Scola fans who hated the trade are continually obligated to act like it was the worst trade in history and plaster his mundane boxscores(bettered by Matt Bonner) any time he doesn't completely suck..and give him total credit for a team achievement...



Seriously...typical of the covetnous nature of Spurfans...he wouldn't be putting up those numbers here, because he wouldn"t be getting the minutes...


And we all know what you guys do to players....who don't get minutes. They suck...remember, Beno?

[timvp]

So Scola > Parker, Manu and Duncan?

I mean...they've never won 20 games in a row.

Scola better than Shaq? He's never won 20. Props on your logical reasoning :tu


And I know Scola fans who hated the trade are continually obligated to act like it was the worst trade in history and plaster his mundane boxscores(bettered by Matt Bonner) any time he doesn't completely suck..and give him total credit for a team achievement...You already lost. Give up.

[whottt]

How have I lost? Because the same guys who coveted Brent Barry before he was a Spur now covet Luis Scola?


How about that Beno...look at his stats, damn, wouldn't it be awesome to have him on this team, timvp?

[Holt's Cat]

So giving Scola up for nothing to a division rival isn't a horrible trade? The Spurs got a low 2nd round pick and a Big Fat Greek Pussy in return. Some haul.

[remingtonbo2001]

:lol @ people bumping this thread.

I don't know what was the exact reason but Spurs didn't want to sign Scola.
After that, their only solution was to trade him and they have traded him for the best offer they got.

They preferred cap space and Splitter.

Money + Splitter > Scola

[Holt's Cat]

How have I lost? Because the same guys who coveted Brent Barry before he was a Spur now covet Luis Scola?


How about that Beno...look at his stats, damn, wouldn't it be awesome to have him on this team, timvp?


It would have been nice to have received something of value in return instead of a top 50 protected pick from the league's 2nd worse team.

[timvp]

How have I lost? Because the same guys who coveted Brent Barry before he was a Spur now covet Luis Scola?


How about that Beno...look at his stats, damn, wouldn't it be awesome to have him on this team, timvp?I don't even think you know what you are talking about.

[Holt's Cat]

They preferred cap space and Splitter.

Money + Splitter > Scola


What cap space?

[whottt]

What if it was the best offer on the table, and least damaging situation to trade him to?

What if he was threatening to walk?


What if they thought they had a legit chance of signing Vaginis?



What offers were better...


You really want him in Cleveland instead?


I don't.

[whottt]

I don't even think you know what you are talking about.



Read the forum much?

[whottt]

I don't even think you know what you are talking about.



My bad...I should have said, the dude that coveted Matt Bonner before he was a Spur, now covets Luis Scola.

[timvp]

What if it was the best offer on the table, and least damaging situation to trade him to?

What if he was threatening to walk?


What if they thought they had a legit chance of signing Vaginis? ROFL times three. I can't even rank those lame "what ifs".

Bottomline is Scola is playing better than almost any of us expected. I personally thought there was a chanced that he'd be a hollow stat whore but he's actually a winning player who does whatever is needed to get a W.

The Spurs gambled and lost. You can try to save yourself by mucking the thread but even you know the trade was a bad one.

[whottt]

Bottomline is Scola is playing better than almost any of us expected.


If he? LOL you predicted he'd put up 16 and 6 and I predicted he'd do 9 and 4? Is he really proving us wrong? Either of us?




I personally thought there was a chanced that he'd be a hollow stat whore but he's actually a winning player who does whatever is needed to get a W.

.

Well crap I can tell you he's a smart player who knows where to be on the court, the coach of Team Argentina taught them that well...

That's why he gets his numbers....

That doesn't change my criticisms of him though...

#1. He's an asshole.
#2. He chokes.
#3. He'll never be anything more than a limited role player in the NBA.


We have plenty of #3. That don't need an adjustment period to the NBA, that know the team...etc.




Tell me something...if this team had Scola instead of Matt Bonner...do they still do the trade for Kurt Thomas?

[whottt]

I'd have like to have gotten more for him than we did, as would every single Spurfan.....I've yet to see you prove we could have(in a way that wouldn't hurt our title chances even more).

Much bitching about nothing...

[timvp]

I thought you hated Kurt Thomas. You can't all of a sudden like him to use him in your argument. You are the one who says Elson > Thomas ... not to mention Scola > Thomas.

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs gambled and lost. You can try to save yourself by mucking the thread but even you know the trade was a bad one.

Not only that, they sold him on the cheap to a playoff team in their division.

[whottt]

It would have been nice to have received something of value in return instead of a top 50 protected pick from the league's 2nd worse team.


Adn we're going to collect on that draft now pick aren't we bitch? :smokin


And the Rockets aren't going to win a title :smokin


And next year it'll be TMac's turn to get injured :smokin


And we've got one better, if not two, younger, bigger prospects in the pipeline. :smokin

[whottt]

I swear....I haven't seen Spursfans get this excited about a product of Rick Adelman's system since Hedo Turkoglu...




How about that Brad Miller guy...he puts up 15 9 and 4.

[remingtonbo2001]

The Spurs gambled and lost.

How can you make that judgment? Wasn't Splitter apart of this package? I was under the impression Houston passed up on Tiago, in which we would have discussions with them concerning Scola. Yes, Scola is producing well on a team which desperately needed a strong post presence. Going into the season, we had Fabio, Elson, Bonner, and Horry. All showing promise coming into the season. We also then recieve the rights to a promising prospect in Splitter. Splitter is also considerably younger. I'm not proclaiming Scola is a terrible player. However, I don't think Splitter would be on this team had Scola signed with us. I like his potential more than I like Scola's.

If Scola's game transfered this well, I can't imagine how well Splitter will do.

[whottt]

I thought you hated Kurt Thomas. You can't all of a sudden like him to use him in your argument. You are the one who says Elson > Thomas ... not to mention Scola > Thomas.



What I feel about Thomas is irrelevant...fact of the matter is the Spurs traded for him...I'm just asking you if you think they do that trade if Scola is on the team.

I think yes...

[timvp]

How can you make that judgment? Wasn't Splitter apart of this package? I was under the impression Houston passed up on Tiago, in which we would have discussions with them concerning Scola. Yes, Scola is producing well on a team which desperately needed a strong post presence. Going into the season, we had Fabio, Elson, Bonner, and Horry. All showing promise coming into the season. We also then recieve the rights to a promising prospect in Splitter. Splitter is also considerably younger. I'm not proclaiming Scola is a terrible player. However, I don't think Splitter would be on this team had Scola signed with us. I like his potential more than I like Scola's.

If Scola's game transfered this well, I can't imagine how well Splitter will do.I'm lost on the point you are making. The Spurs drafted Splitter. And Scola is considered to be just about the best player in Euroleague history. Splitter is pretty good but no one would say he's better than Scola.

[timvp]

What I feel about Thomas is irrelevant...fact of the matter is the Spurs traded for him...I'm just asking you if you think they do that trade if Scola is on the team.

I think yes...Elson and a pick for Thomas? You do that deal if the team had David Robinson in his prime next to Duncan.

[whottt]

Elson and a pick for Thomas? You do that deal if the team had David Robinson in his prime next to Duncan.


You don't if the other teams hold out for Scola instead....



Look on the bright side...at least GM's won't be gunshy about getting burnt by our FO after this...we might get more on trades in the future.




Still waiting for you to prove we could have gotten more...and please don't say holding on to him would have increased his value...when was the last time the Spurs increased the value of a player they wanted to get rid of in the regular season?

[Bruno]

Spurs haven't signed Scola because they weren't ready to spend $10M.
They offered similar or bigger contracts to Przybilla, Bonner, Oberto and Amir Johnson. They also went after Mourning, Elson and Butler.
Spurs weren't ready to spend $10M on Scola and we likely will never know the reason of that?

And it's way too soon for the "I told you so". Let's wait at least this summer or better next year's summer. There just isn't enough evidence of Scola's being good or bad right now.