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You edited that. :p
And last time I checked Timmy has a nice reliable 15-20 footer. Does that not satisfy your requirement?
OMFG we've seen all of .. what? 30 minutes of Splitter and Duncan together on the court in 2 ing years?????? Ya, let's use the advanced stats based on that!
You edited that. :p
And last time I checked Timmy has a nice reliable 15-20 footer. Does that not satisfy your requirement?
..or he's just someone who posts here.
No, I didn't. You quoted it.
I believe it has been proved to be not reliable in the playoffs in one of these stat threads.And last time I checked Timmy has a nice reliable 15-20 footer. Does that not satisfy your requirement?
Lol if you wanna hang on that thread so tightly, Timvp also says he wants Tiago to get more playing time and would like to see the Duncan and Splitter combination.
I got no problem with someone's putting it all together in a nicely linked blog entry.
Sure. I think we're just wondering how it's supposed to work going forward.
Here's how it should work going forward. Pop flips that 100 lb chip off his shoulder and gets down to the business of what is actually going to win playoff games.
Laughable argument. Utter nonsense. I didn't even finish reading the article...it was getting too deep.
What I'm saying is that I don't think starting Splitter means hes banned from the bench unit.
I'm not saying that Splitter and Duncan is a perfect solution or a sure-fire home run. I'm just interested in seeing them play more together. And I do realize its easier said then done, given the condensed schedule. But I think that Duncan and Splitter have the potential to be our most effective lineup both offensive and defensive (with Ginobili + Parker) so its worth the extended look.
Duncan's post-up FG% this season doesn't agree.
You're right, he shoots from 20 . . . occasionally, that is. And he can make it. He's not an elite mid range shooter by any stretch, but he is reliable enough. Davis can make the odd mid range jumper, but he's far from reliable at this point.
I don't know why people are acting as if it's a mystery how Duncan and Splitter would work together. They'd work together the same way Duncan and Robinson used to or the way Gasol and Bynum do. So long as one of the bigs can shoot from mid range, pass and defend power forwards, you can play two centers together.
It's a little more difficult in today's league, because of the amount of mobile, shooting fours, but it's still doable. You can't tell me Splitter doesn't move his feet better than Gasol on defense. If Gasol can consistently defend power forwards, there's no reason Splitter couldn't. That's not to say he wouldn't struggle in certain match-ups, but everyone does. The flip side is, those guys would have to defend him in the lost post and a lot of them wouldn't be able to. If the potential positives outweigh the negatives, you play two centers together. I realize that unless at least one big plays major minutes or unless they can acquire a big who can protect the rim off the bench, they can't do this. But eventually, they have to put them together and let them work out the kinks in advance of the playoffs.
I wouldn't worry about the 2nd unit offense, especially in the playoffs. They'll be so much subbing, mixing and matching and obviously the starters will play more minutes. Even if he started, he'd probably come out 6-7 minutes in and return to play some with the 2nd unit. And if they do end up getting Turiaf as a post deadline buyout, this is what they'll have to do, because playing Turiaf with Bonner for long stretches will lead to them getting bludgeoned on the glass.
I've been in agreement with Splitter's limited minutes this year for the EXACT reason presented by the 48MoH article. Now if they can limit Parker's minutes for the rest of the season until playoffs.
I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I don't know it will work, but what we do know is that Bonner and Blair in the playoffs do not work. We already know that. The only thing that appears to be unknown is whether or not Tim/Tiago can do well in the playoffs.
I always like to keep things simple so what I am looking at is two things:
1) It's inevitable to play Tim/Tiago in the playoffs because we know, from a large sample size that Bonner/Blair in the playoffs aren't the same players as they are in the regular season. So all the regular season metrics don't apply to those two guys. It's the reason, out of panic, that Pop had to throw Tiago/Tim out there last year and they were woefully unprepared for it.
2) You play your best talent the most majority of the minutes in the playoffs.
There are valid concerns about the spacing with Tiago/Tim, but the fact remains that Tiago is clearly the 2nd best big man on the team and he should be and will need to play more minutes in the playoffs. Whether or not that comes alongside Tim is one thing, but it's hard to imagine it not because Tim will be playing more minutes in the playoffs than this regular season.
You also keep focusing on just offense. There is an entire defensive upside here that is being ignored. The Spurs have yet to prove they can do any real damage in the playoffs with an improved offense when the defense suffers. This Tiago/Tim tandem easily has the potential to be the best defensive unit especially when paired with TP/Manu/Green or Leonard.
Again, if you look at the difference in your numbers in the regular season to post season for Bonner/Blair they tell a dramatically different story and this isn't a small sample we are talking about. Look at Tiago's post season numbers (small sample) last year. It's not an apples to apples argument at this point because of that known factor.
My hypothesis as to why it's not happening now is because they've had so little time together. They are both incredibly skilled & smart so I think with time they would figure it out. I also think that it struggles some because of the inconsistencies in minutes together. If it was the same amount of minutes played together to date, but it divided evenly over the games at similar times, I think you would see some improvement. But with bigs who aren't a perfect fit, when you do things erratically it makes it that much harder especially when going from polar opposites (Tiago playing most minutes with Bonner, then thrust into playing sporadic minutes with Tim).
Time might not solve the issue, but you have to see so you can rule that out because if most of the previous years of playoff shortcomings are an indicator, we know what doesn't work.
I don't know if Tiago/Tim is the best defensive combo, I just know that in the playoffs any combo of Blair/Bonner to date, regardless of who they are paired with is not.
How could Tim and Tiago possibly have developed an ounce of chemistry together when the sample size is beyond sufficient?
So Timmy's increased range this year some how makes it a bad combination?
Tim plays the role of D'Rob and Tiago plays Timmy's old role. With some playing time, that can develop into a wonderful combination. High/low could once again flourish.
Alternatively, Pop can keep making excuses, or have others do it for him, and they never develop a potent combination.
Are we truly going to believe that two gifted passing bigs can't be mutual assets in tandem? Ludicrous. Preposterous. Insane.
The data from last year says Tiago/Tim worked well. The data this year conflicts with that. That's the catch 22.
The data consistently shows Bonner & Blair in the playoffs nose dive from their regular season advanced stats.
it seems so, he just tweeted that someone said he was a parasite. I usually enjoy his articles, and I'm good if he extracts some ideas from here, there are some quality posters here
You gotta be in kidding me....
Are you geniuses actually arguing that the TD/Splitter is NOT the spurs best chance?
Here's something really, really simple;
A hall of fame coach starts putting his BEST five players on the court the majority of the minutes of a game....and this hall of fame coach plays the NOT SO GOOD players a lot less minutes of a game....
Then this hall of fame coach gets his ass in gear and coaches these 5 good players to run an offense that works using these 5 best players.
This in' bull of DATA says this combo won't work and this DATA says that combo has a higher +/- garbage is just that....garbage.
The hall of fame coach has been gifted a young 7 footer with smarts, quickness, toughness, and a load of talent and all this asshole future hall of famer can muster is to play this 7 footer less than Matt Bonner....
and instead of looking at this coach's performance...you morons are looking at DATA that says this team needs to keep playing turds like Bonner and Blair....because the DATA supports this and ......awww it....
you Popsuckers are idiots.... dumpster and schtiiikkk....are especially stupid....
Also, this is about Blair/Bonner not cutting it and working with what we have. There is no doubt in my mind that if the Spurs brought in someone with the same offensive spacing issues as Blair, but better defensively, the Spurs would be better off and I for one wouldn't be clamoring to play Tiago/Tim together so much.
The offense isn't the problem. It's the defense with Blair starting or Matt in the playoffs. Just get someone who is a better defender to start instead of Blair because the offense can't get much worse than Blair's ability to spread the floor with Tim.
As of right now, Duncan operates best out of the PnR and spotting up for the mid-range J. Tiago works best out of the PnR and posting-up. Tiago and Duncan playing together doesn't equate to "Duncan's parking himself on the perimeter and Nealing with it". Both players can run the PnR depending on matchups. Duncan could work from the outside in, while Tiago works the low-post and draws double teams for kickouts to perimeter shooters as well as Duncan.
I almost don't remember what it's like to have two big-men on the floor that can both defend the paint, run the PnR, post-up and do high-low post work. They can certainly play together, but they are going to need more minutes together if they're ever going to build chemistry.
The Spurs need another big man. This is the one thing I continue to gather from all these arguments.
Well stated. To suggest otherwise is insulting to Tim and Tiago.
That, and the fact that for right now since a trade looks exceedingly difficult to come by, you have to work with what you have which is Tiago/Tim.
So unless the Spurs are fairly confident they can trade for or sign a FA big that will replace Blair in the starting line up, not playing Tiago/Tim more minutes together could cause a lot of problems.
If Splitter and Duncan won't get minutes together in the regular season, then Splitter needs to play more (with Bonner) and Tim should get more rest. Tim got low minutes last year and still was nowhere near as good as he was when he started the season. I see no reason not to cut back on a few of Tim's minutes and give them to Tiago. That's the worst alternative.
But as far as those saying the stats don't support playing Tim and Tiago together: what do the stats support? Playing Tim and Bonner? That's a combination that's going to be successful in the playoffs? Stats show Bonner "flips the switch" when the playoffs start, and by flipping the switch, that's to the "off" position.
Anyone using stats now to support not playing Tim and Tiago together is basically saying they should play Tim and Bonner in the playoffs and we know that will be failure. This isn't that complicated. There is no other realistic option. Tim and Tiago have to both play, otherwise the team is just going for the regular season trophy once again.
And besides, in the playoffs the style of play changes. Teams focus on weaknesses. Bonner is fine as a team defender but he's helpless when isolated and that's what teams will do in the playoffs. (In the same regard, teams will force Leonard to make outside jump shots, but that's another discussion.)
Playoffs heavily favor individual play. And Tiago is a better individual player (and he's a fine team player as well.) There aren't enough stats to say Tim and Tiago can't play together in the playoffs.
And, there's no reason Tim can't play the high post. He's doing it already anyway just fine. No one is putting him out to pasture. He's grazing out there on his own.
I know you're not saying, you're just saying. But I don't give a damn what the data says. The sample size isn't nearly big enough to draw any sort of concrete conclusions.
All this talk about the spacing is nonsense. Duncan's offense was a lot more low post oriented when he played with Mohammed and Oberto -- two very limited shooters -- and the offense worked just fine, efficiency wise. Intelligent players, such as Duncan, Splitter, Ginobili and Parker, will find a way to make it work.
Duncan can basically play the Robinson role on offense, while still being an occasional post up option . . . which is essentially what he does now. And if he's having a turn back the clock game or has an advantageous match-up and they want to relentlessly pound it into him, then in those instances it makes sense to surround him with more shooting.
All the supposed issues ignore the fact that those same issues are prevalent with Blair starting. Only with him, they don't get the quality defense.
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