When seconds count...

[Yonivore]

If only those poor Japanese women could shoot those gropers on the subway ...

Who's advocating that? I only brought up the issue in response to your comment about porn.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, you brought up a completely unsubstantiated claim apparently gleaned from your extensive knowledge of fetish porn.

[Yonivore]

I'm still fascinated by the idea that having multiple shooters in a darkened and chaotic movie theater would be a preferable scenario that is certain to result in diminished casualties.

Perhaps you should take an active shooter course.

Only one of the shooters is randomly picking targets that are fleeing, usually, away from him. The other three would be firing at a single target, increasingly alone as victims fall or run away from him.

What are the odds the shooter, will be able to identify, isolate, and eliminate all of the threats that are now intending to take him out?

[ChumpDumper]

Perhaps you should take an active shooter course.

Only one of the shooters is randomly picking targets that are fleeing, usually, away from him. The other three would be firing at a single target, increasingly alone as victims fall or run away from him.

What are the odds the shooter, will be able to identify, isolate, and eliminate all of the threats that are now intending to take him out?

Now yoni is having a hero fantasy.

Lot of that going around.

[clambake]

Now yoni is having a hero fantasy.

Lot of that going around.

yep, playin it out in his head.

[vy65]

I'd like to know what makes Japanese society misogynistic?

[FromWayDowntown]

Perhaps you should take an active shooter course.

Only one of the shooters is randomly picking targets that are fleeing, usually, away from him. The other three would be firing at a single target, increasingly alone as victims fall or run away from him.

What are the odds the shooter, will be able to identify, isolate, and eliminate all of the threats that are now intending to take him out?

What are the odds that your intervenors won't mistake a fellow good samaritan for a cohort of the original shooter? You're not likely dealing with shooters who are expertly skilled or who've been highly trained to recognize and eliminate threats. You're dealing with scared people in a very scary situation.

Even assuming perfect recognition in that cir stance, remember, it's a dark theater filled with some sort of irritating agent; the movie is still running at full volume and only seconds have elapsed since this situation has arisen. People are crammed into narrow rows and have limited escape routes available to them. Would any reasonable person not making a wholly political argument believe that the bystanders in that cir stance aren't further endangered by cross-fire?

[clambake]

What are the odds that your intervenors won't mistake a fellow good samaritan for a cohort of the original shooter? You're not likely dealing with shooters who are expertly skilled or who've been highly trained to recognize and eliminate threats. You're dealing with scared people in a very scary situation.

Even assuming perfect recognition in that cir stance, remember, it's a dark theater filled with some sort of irritating agent; the movie is still running at full volume and only seconds have elapsed since this situation has arisen. People are crammed into narrow rows and have limited escape routes available to them. Would any reasonable person not making a wholly political argument believe that the bystanders in that cir stance aren't further endangered by cross-fire?

some must die so that some can live.

[Yonivore]

2007 Colorado YWAM and New Life shootings

On Sunday, December 9, 2007, at about 1 p.m. Murray, armed with a semi-automatic rifle and two pistols, entered the foyer of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs and fatally shot two and wounded three others before himself being shot and wounded by Jeanne Assam, a former sworn Colorado police officer and a church member acting as security. Murray then took his own life.

At about 1 p.m. MST (20:00 UTC), 30 minutes after the 11 a.m. service had ended at New Life Church, Murray opened fire in the church parking lot shooting the Works family and Judy Purcell, 40. Murray then entered the building's main foyer where he shot Larry Bourbonnais, 59, hitting him in the forearm. At this point, Assam opened fire on Murray with her personally owned concealed weapon. Police say that after suffering multiple hits from Assam's gun, Murray fatally shot himself.

Assam later stated that "God guided me and protected me [and I] did not think for a minute to run away."

The pastor of the church stated that Assam shot Murray before he entered 50 feet (15 m) inside the building, after she encountered him in the hallway, and that Assam probably saved "over 100 lives."

Following the shooting spree, Colorado Springs Police Department officers searched the church campus looking for su ious devices. Colorado governor Bill Ritter ordered state authorities to help investigate. The FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives also came to the site to assist.[/quote]

[vy65]

Clearly that situation is analogous ...

[clambake]

empty hallway compared to packed theater. lol

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, a police woman working security for a church shot a guy in that church while she was working security.

[Spurminator]

Yoni has Smith & Wesson stock.

[Yonivore]

What are the odds that your intervenors won't mistake a fellow good samaritan for a cohort of the original shooter? You're not likely dealing with shooters who are expertly skilled or who've been highly trained to recognize and eliminate threats. You're dealing with scared people in a very scary situation.

In the case of the New Life Shootings, a courageous woman with a CHL eliminated a threat.

Even assuming perfect recognition in that cir stance, remember, it's a dark theater filled with some sort of irritating agent; the movie is still running at full volume and only seconds have elapsed since this situation has arisen. People are crammed into narrow rows and have limited escape routes available to them. Would any reasonable person not making a wholly political argument believe that the bystanders in that cir stance aren't further endangered by cross-fire?

CHL Active Shooter training will teach you how to assess a fairly chaotic scene rapidly.

Look, I don't know how I would have reacted-- even if the theater would have allowed concealed weapons -- I'm merely suggesting, if there was a Jeanne Assam in the crowd and she had her weapon on her, there's a chance the death toll wouldn't have reached 13 with almost 60 injured.

No one is telling you to get a CHL and protect the world. In fact, with your views, I'm not sure you'd be of use with a gun. Most CHL licensees probably wouldn't do the courageous thing in the same situation but, it would only take one Jeanne Assam to change the outcome.

[clambake]

new life shootings comparison. lol

[Yonivore]

Clearly that situation is analogous ...

It is. Clearly.

[ChumpDumper]

The guard hailed as a hero after the December 2007 shooting at New Life Church says the church indicated she was not welcome there after she informed church officials that she is gay.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_17486675

Cool story, yoni.

[vy65]

[clambake]

lol calling fwdt useless because of his views.

[leemajors]

In the case of the New Life Shootings, a courageous woman with a CHL eliminated a threat.


CHL Active Shooter training will teach you how to assess a fairly chaotic scene rapidly.

Look, I don't know how I would have reacted-- even if the theater would have allowed concealed weapons -- I'm merely suggesting, if there was a Jeanne Assam in the crowd and she had her weapon on her, there's a chance the death toll wouldn't have reached 13 with almost 60 injured.

No one is telling you to get a CHL and protect the world. In fact, with your views, I'm not sure you'd be of use with a gun. Most CHL licensees probably wouldn't do the courageous thing in the same situation but, it would only take one Jeanne Assam to change the outcome.

You did, however, tell people they don't love their families enough if they don't have a CHL and carry. It was ing stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

In the case of the New Life Shootings, a courageous woman with a CHL eliminated a threat.


CHL Active Shooter training will teach you how to assess a fairly chaotic scene rapidly.

Look, I don't know how I would have reacted-- even if the theater would have allowed concealed weapons -- I'm merely suggesting, if there was a Jeanne Assam in the crowd and she had her weapon on her, there's a chance the death toll wouldn't have reached 13 with almost 60 injured.

No one is telling you to get a CHL and protect the world. In fact, with your views, I'm not sure you'd be of use with a gun. Most CHL licensees probably wouldn't do the courageous thing in the same situation but, it would only take one Jeanne Assam to change the outcome.

I am all for armed police volunteering to protect every movie screening for free.

[FromWayDowntown]

Look, I don't know how I would have reacted-- even if the theater would have allowed concealed weapons -- I'm merely suggesting, if there was a Jeanne Assam in the crowd and she had her weapon on her, there's a chance the death toll wouldn't have reached 13 with almost 60 injured.

Can you really dispute that there's a substantial chance that the death toll would have exceeded 13 and the total casualties would have been greater as well?

No one is telling you to get a CHL and protect the world. In fact, with your views, I'm not sure you'd be of use with a gun. Most CHL licensees probably wouldn't do the courageous thing in the same situation but, it would only take one Jeanne Assam to change the outcome.

There's undoubtedly a direct connection between one's political views and his or her courage.

[Yonivore]

You did, however, tell people they don't love their families enough if they don't have a CHL and carry. It was ing stupid.

Since we're all about context, this is precisely what I said:

"If you have a family and don't have a CHL, you don't love them enough to believe it's your responsibility to protect them and yourself."

And, yeah, I stand by that statement. I take my family's security seriously. Whether or not I'm successful won't be because I wasn't prepared.

[cantthinkofanything]

Can you really dispute that there's a substantial chance that the death toll would have exceeded 13 and the total casualties would have been greater as well?



There's undoubtedly a direct connection between one's political views and his or her courage.

It's all conjecture. But also remember that the shooter's gun supposedly jammed. The death toll could have been much higher. If I was in a situation where someone had had three guns with 100 rounds that he was going to let off, I'd take my chances with a few people with handguns returning fire.

[Yonivore]

Can you really dispute that there's a substantial chance that the death toll would have exceeded 13 and the total casualties would have been greater as well?

I think I just did. And, there are other examples besides Ms. Assam.

There's undoubtedly a direct connection between one's political views and his or her courage.

Really? I have no idea of the political leaning of any of the recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor yet, to a person, they exhibited the kind of courage it would take to act in such a situation.

Are you suggesting such courage doesn't exist in the general population? That great acts of courage and selflessness only occur on the battlefield?