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  1. #26
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Its pretty much impossible to say that a good amount of sea level rise is not the direct result of anthropogenic heating due to melting of land ice and thermal expansion of the seas. Sandy was a strong - and probably once in a lifetime - storm but as sea level rises you will get Sandy type flooding with even weaker storms. This is a very real aspect of climate change that has serious implications for coastal cities going forward. You can talk all you want about global climate models and what the changes will actually be but this one is absolutely undeniable.
    So what do you consider a good amount? About half the sea rise if from thermal expansion. The ocean is absorbing more energy than it is releasing and I would say primarily because of solar variations. We still don't have any close pinned down numbers for anthropogenic warming vs. natural warming. I would suggest that as much as 1/4 of the sea rise can be attributed to anthropogenic warming. No more, and I would say it's much less than that.

  2. #27
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    Who says humans DON'T affect the climate system?
    VRWC/ALEC/oilco propaganda.

  3. #28

  4. #29
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    Who says humans DON'T affect the climate system?
    I think a better question is 'who said humans don't affect climate change 2 years ago and now says that human contribution is insignificant?'

    Some especially conservatives like to talk about the slippery slope. I like to call the above phenomenon the stupid slope.

  5. #30
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I think a better question is 'who said humans don't affect climate change 2 years ago and now says that human contribution is insignificant?'
    link?

  6. #31
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    So you deny that you claimed that the Earth was not warming even as little as a year ago? Are you really going to make me go look up that 'temp hasn't changed in ten years' graph you spammed for 6 months?

  7. #32
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    So you deny that you claimed that the Earth was not warming even as little as a year ago? Are you really going to make me go look up that 'temp hasn't changed in ten years' graph you spammed for 6 months?
    Woah, hold the phone. I can say there has been statistically insignicant warming in a 10-15 year window and still acknowledge that is has warmed in the past century. Don't get things twisted there, Spanky.

  8. #33
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    You are a Romney disciple, Darrin, and tbh reading through your over the last 5 years I really do think you are a shill.

    You make claims on generalities but when asked about specifics you resort to your deceptive bull . This is what I get from the first couple of pages of a search.

    Global warming "deniers" -- LOL


    Yes, indeed, the climate is changing. Interestingly enough, it will do this with or without the existence of human beings.
    What would you say to scientists who co-authored IPCC reports that disagree with this assertion?

    Following is from:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7081331.stm

    As the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) puts the finishing touches to its final report of the year, two of its senior scientists look at what the panel is and how well it works. Here, a view from a leading researcher into temperature change.


    The IPCC is a framework around which hundreds of scientists and other participants are organised to mine the panoply of climate change literature to produce a synthesis of the most important and relevant findings.

    These findings are published every few years to help policymakers keep tabs on where the participants chosen for the IPCC believe the Earth's climate has been, where it is going, and what might be done to adapt to and/or even adjust the predicted outcome.

    While most participants are scientists and bring the aura of objectivity, there are two things to note:

    this is a political process to some extent (anytime governments are involved it ends up that way)
    scientists are mere mortals casting their gaze on a system so complex we cannot precisely predict its future state even five days ahead
    The political process begins with the selection of the Lead Authors because they are nominated by their own governments.

    Thus at the outset, the political apparatus of the member nations has a role in pre-selecting the main participants.

    But, it may go further.

    Unsound bites

    At an IPCC Lead Authors' meeting in New Zealand, I well remember a conversation over lunch with three Europeans, unknown to me but who served as authors on other chapters. I sat at their table because it was convenient.

    After introducing myself, I sat in silence as their discussion continued, which boiled down to this: "We must write this report so strongly that it will convince the US to sign the Kyoto Protocol."

    Politics, at least for a few of the Lead Authors, was very much part and parcel of the process.

    And, while the 2001 report was being written, Dr Robert Watson, IPCC Chair at the time, testified to the US Senate in 2000 adamantly advocating on behalf of the Kyoto Protocol, which even the journal Nature now reports is a failure.
    Follow the herd

    As I said above - and this may come as a surprise - scientists are mere mortals.

    The tendency to suc b to group-think and the herd-instinct (now formally called the "informational cascade") is perhaps as tempting among scientists as any group because we, by definition, must be the "ones who know" (from the Latin sciere, to know).


    You dare not be thought of as "one who does not know"; hence we may suc b to the pressure to be perceived as "one who knows".

    This leads, in my opinion, to an overstatement of confidence in the published findings and to a ready acceptance of the views of anointed authorities.

    Scepticism, a hallmark of science, is frowned upon. (I suspect the IPCC bureaucracy cringes whenever I'm identified as an IPCC Lead Author.)


    The signature statement of the 2007 IPCC report may be paraphrased as this: "We are 90% confident that most of the warming in the past 50 years is due to humans."

    We are not told here that this assertion is based on computer model output, not direct observation. The simple fact is we don't have thermometers marked with "this much is human-caused" and "this much is natural".

    So, I would have written this conclusion as "Our climate models are incapable of reproducing the last 50 years of surface temperatures without a push from how we think greenhouse gases influence the climate. Other processes may also account for much of this change."

    Slim models

    To me, the elevation of climate models to the status of definitive tools for prediction has led to the temptation to be over-confident.

    Here is how this can work.

    Computer models are the basic tools which are used to estimate the future climate. Many scientists (ie the mere mortals) have been captivated by an IPCC image in which the actual global surface temperature curve for the 20th Century is overlaid on a band of model simulations of temperature for the same period.


    The observations seem to fit right in the middle of the model band, implying that models are formulated so capably and completely that they can reproduce the past very well.

    Without knowing much about climate models, any group will be persuaded by this image to believe models are quite precise.

    However, there is a fundamental flaw with this thinking.

    You see, every modeller knew what the answer was ahead of time. (Those groans you just heard were the protestations of my colleagues in the modelling community - they know what's coming).

    In my view, on the other hand, this persuasive image is not a scientific experiment at all. The agreement displayed is just as likely to do with clever software engineering as to the first principles of science.

    The proper and objective experiment is to test model output against quan ies not known ahead of time.

    Complex world

    Our group is one of the few that builds a variety of climate datasets from scratch for tests just like this.

    Since we build the datasets here, we have an urge to be sceptical about arguments-from-authority in favour of the real, though imperfect, observations.

    In these model vs data comparisons, we find gross inconsistencies - hence I am sceptical of our ability to claim cause and effect about both past and future climate states.

    Mother Nature is incredibly complex, and to think we mortals are so clever and so perceptive that we can create computer code that accurately reproduces the millions of processes that determine climate is hubris (think of predicting the complexities of clouds).


    Of all scientists, climate scientists should be the most humble. Our cousins in the one-to-five-day weather prediction business learned this long ago, partly because they were held accountable for their predictions every day.

    Answering the question about how much warming has occurred because of increases in greenhouse gases and what we may expect in the future still holds enormous uncertainty, in my view.

    Explosive view

    How could the situation be improved? At one time I stated that the IPCC-like process was the worst way to compile scientific knowledge, except for all the others.

    Improvements have been adopted through the years, most notably the publication of the comments and responses. Bravo.

    I would think a simple way to let the world know there are other opinions about various aspects emerging from the IPCC font would be to provide some quasi-official forum to allow those views to be expressed.


    These alternative-view authors should be afforded the same protocol as the IPCC authors, ie they themselves are their own final reviewers and thus would have final say on what is published.

    At that point, I suppose, the blogosphere would erupt and, amidst the fire and smoke, hopefully, enlightenment may appear.

    I continue to participate in the IPCC (unless an IPCC functionary reads this missive and blackballs me) because I not only am able to contribute from my own research, but there are numerous opportunities to learn something new - to feed the curiosity that attends a scientist's soul.

    I can live with the disagreements concerning nuances and subjective assertions as they simply remind me that all scientists are people, and do not prevent me from speaking my mind anyway.

    Wise teachings

    Don't misunderstand me.

    Atmospheric carbon dioxide continues to increase due to the undisputed benefits that carbon-based energy brings to humanity. This increase will have some climate impact through CO2's radiation properties.

    However, fundamental knowledge is meagre here, and our own research indicates that alarming changes in the key observations are not occurring.

    The best advice regarding scientific knowledge, which certainly applies to climate, came to me from Mr Mallory, my high school physics teacher.

    He proposed that we should always begin our scientific pronouncements with this statement: "At our present level of ignorance, we think we know..."

    Good advice for the IPCC, and all of us.


    John R Christy is Professor and Director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama, Huntsville, US

    He has contributed to all four major IPCC assessments, including acting as a Lead Author in 2001 and a Contributing Author in 2007
    Point out ONE SINGLE piece of objective evidence that proves, or even quantifies, the human contribution to the whopping 0.74 degree C increase of the last 100 years.


    Problem is, no such piece of evidence exists.
    I never questioned the science of "global warming"/"climate change" until Al Gore started telling everyone that the science was settled and the debate was over. If the science is truly settled, then there's really no need to make these statements. Someone saying "the science of gravity is settled" would be patently absurd. And the whole "concensus" issue is ridiculous. It only takes one scientist and one set of inconvenient data to prove a theory wrong. For example, a theory that "all swans are white" could be falsified by the discovery of a single black swan.
    Except for when he admitted that human CO2 emissions causing global warming was a "guess".


    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...3&postcount=20
    Absolutely not. Climate is a chaotic dynamical system that we don't fully understand.


    AGW stands on two pillars that are very flimsy:

    1) The warming of the 20th century is unprecedented

    2) The 3% that humans contribute to a trace gas CO2 (that makes up only 3% of our atmosphere) has caused this unprecedented warming
    Two things no one is debating:

    1) The earth has warmed
    2) Humans play a role


    The issue is whether the warming of the last century is unprecedented and whether any future change will be catastrophic.

    I think you should watch this video, by liberal Philip Stott.

    Like me, he is a firm believer in climate change. Unlike global warmers, we don't think climate change is unusual.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ar-record.html

    What happened to the 'warmest year on record': The truth is global warming has halted

  9. #34
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    Darrin: 'i don't deny it but I do."

  10. #35
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Darrin: 'i don't deny it but I do."

  11. #36
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    That search function is a heartless .

  12. #37
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    That search function is a heartless .
    Not really. Darrin doesn't give a . He's not embarrassed by his idiocy or he'd have stopped it a long ass time ago. And its not like anyone actually gives him any credit anymore.

  13. #38
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    Not really. Darrin doesn't give a . He's not embarrassed by his idiocy or he'd have stopped it a long ass time ago. And its not like anyone actually gives him any credit anymore.
    It's that behavior that makes me suspect he is a shill. When I was reading those quotes I was thinking to myself either that he is schizophrenic or is intentionally trying to mislead people. There were a lot more too but you cannot quote from the first climate denial is pseudoscience thread so i just stopped.

  14. #39
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    That search function is a heartless .
    Not when it proves my point. If the goal was to prove I said the earth hasn't warmed and humans haven't contributed to it, then his use of the search feature was an epic failure.

  15. #40
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    It's that behavior that makes me suspect he is a shill. When I was reading those quotes I was thinking to myself either that he is schizophrenic or is intentionally trying to mislead people.

    Yeah, you'd have to be a real schizo to question climate sensitivity or human contribution vs natural varibity.

  16. #41
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    By the way, that video is from a debate that the non-alarmists won.

  17. #42
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    Darrin: 'I don't deny it but I do."
    You will just say whatever Darrin. Those quotes were an example of how you speak out of both sides of your mouth ie saying that there is no evidence that there is a human contribution and then claiming you do not dispute that there is a human contribution.

    You're a sophist shill and it's obvious.

  18. #43
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  19. #44
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    “The era of procrastination, of half measures, of soothing, and baffling expedience of delays is coming to its close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences."

    - Winston Churchill

  20. #45
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    What about the climate Mitt?


  21. #46
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You are a Romney disciple, Darrin, and tbh reading through your over the last 5 years I really do think you are a shill.

    You make claims on generalities but when asked about specifics you resort to your deceptive bull . This is what I get from the first couple of pages of a search.
    Multiple quotes by Darrin...
    Really Fuzzy?

    Not a single one of these multiple quotes of DarrinS' indicate what you accused him of.

    You keep getting more pathetic as the days go by.

  22. #47
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Not when it proves my point. If the goal was to prove I said the earth hasn't warmed and humans haven't contributed to it, then his use of the search feature was an epic failure.
    Absolute fail, but then should we expect anything else from The Fuzzy Troll?

  23. #48
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    What about the climate Mitt?

    Was he really suppose to answer a boisterous ass?

  24. #49
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    Science knows with great detail how the Earth was formed "4 Billion" years ago and yet they still don't know about weather?

    The water damage done in 48 hours was devastating I can imagine what 40 days and nights can do.


  25. #50
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    Point out ONE SINGLE piece of objective evidence that proves, or even quantifies, the human contribution to the whopping 0.74 degree C increase of the last 100 years.


    Problem is, no such piece of evidence exists.
    Two things no one is debating:

    1) The earth has warmed
    2) Humans play a role
    Now think real hard, dumbass.

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