Kawhi's offensive game is "antiquated."

[dabom]

So what you're saying is that the problem is the Spurs not Kawhi? If Kawhi had the exact same 3PT attempts on GS, he wouldn't be antiquated anymore?

Apparently not being surrounded by 3 all stars in their primes is his ing problem.

[DMC]

So what you're saying is that the problem is the Spurs not Kawhi? If Kawhi had the exact same 3PT attempts on GS, he wouldn't be antiquated anymore?

[dabom]

Are we still comparing brickhead to 2017 MVP?

[FkLA]

lol 9 games
lol nowhere near as good as Kawhi's best 9 game stretch

At least it's not just a 1 game sample though. You're making progress, fat boy.

[FkLA]

Are we still comparing brickhead to 2017 MVP?

"He's a much better offensive player than Kawhi."

[Neurosis]

I just hope Tony and Manu retire in time for us to get younger at the guard positions. Our team is ing SLOOOOOW

[Neurosis]

And that they retire while Kawhi is still in his prime. They need to go, and we need to add some athletic-but-useful morons who can give us easy baskets in transition and penetrate.

Even when we were a halfcourt team using Duncan postups, we had Tony + Manu breaking down defenses constantly with their speed + skill.

There is literally NOTHING wrong with Kawhi as a player - we don't have the right tools around him.

And LMA is fine. He puts up an efficient 15+ per game. He could do a little more for what he's being paid, but he's not the glaring issue - which is that we are old as phuk and Tony couldn't win a footrace against my grandpa.

[TD 21]

But now the next stride needs to be more penetration and three point shooting.

Leonard doesn't have the requisite speed/quickness/ball handling for it.

Agree with this. In a 7 game series, the teams who manufacture the best and most efficient shots will win more often than not. The Spurs manufacture too many long two's to ever beat the W's in a 7 game series and I honestly believe the Rockets will have an advantage over the Spurs in a series as well because of this very aspect.

This is why I said months ago, that beyond any personnel change, the organization needs to make a philosophical one first. Trying to zig while most zag sounded nice in theory, but it's time to stop pretending they're smarter than everyone else and join the modern NBA.

It's mostly a waste of time talking to him if you aren't going to be universally praising Kawhi in the conversation. Dude has no sense of objectivity.

[skulls138]

That's only a salve for the larger issue. As I said, the problem with Kawhi's offense isn't Kawhi usually. It was last game. There are more fundamental issues with how it affects the offense and defense. But that's not about him being selfish or inefficient. He's still trying to mature into a championship first option. He's getting better at passing when he can't score, but he has a ways to go in terms of setting guys up even when he can score.



That's very true. But there are more people who only see what they want to see. Saying things are Kawhi's fault has nothing to do with a lack of appreciation. It has everything to do with giving an honest evaluation.

Please, spare me the "why do you hate Kawhi?" talk. I love Kawhi. But there are problems with the team trying to win with him as their lead guy. Him being a better version of the same player he is right now wouldn't fix that problem. We just have to hope that guys like Parker and Manu are able to provide the driving the team needs when the time comes.

I hear and agree but its more to do with the lack of help than Kawhi. Ill also agree that Kawhi looked a little flustered and tried to beat it through sheer force instead of passing in the GSW game. Ill just say it, its the lack of LA. I agreed with you in the beginning of the year, give it to LA and Kawhi can save energy for D by shooting threes off of teams double teaming LA, as well as Green and Patty...even Parker. But LA has to inspire confidence in the team. They have to want LA to be focal point and I think the team rallies around Kawhi much more. LA has to play like a man possessed in all phases of the game, for 48 minutes, every night. And hes got to do it for a long enough time that even Kawhi is willing to concede some of his power to him because Kawhis not going to just let LA take over on offense. LA still hasnt paid his dues yet.

[midnightpulp]

So what you're saying is that the problem is the Spurs not Kawhi? If Kawhi had the exact same 3PT attempts on GS, he wouldn't be antiquated anymore?

KD also gets to the rim about 50% more.

And I never said Kawhi is "the" problem. It's obviously the backcourt, but getting a star PG just won't magically fix everything if your superstar is taking over 50% of his shots from the midrange.

KD also plays with the two best shooters in the league. Kawhi will never get that luxury. He's the Spurs best shooter, so he needs to take more 3s. Simple as that.

[midnightpulp]

Shotchart tonight

Only 7 midrange attempts out of 21 shots (which he shot 3-7 on) and more 3s and layups.



Those 3s will start to fall again, and when they do, watch out.

[YGWHI]

Are you this dumb, really?

Who the else should we hope for on this team that can get into the paint consistently? House? Manu?

Spurs didn't sign anyone, banking on Parker. We as fans have no choice but to deal with it, and hope for the best when Parker shows flashes.

As a playerfan first, you wouldn't understand.

Well, there is a big difference between saying that someones hopes he can do it and...thinking/posting he will do it. ""He can score 25 points against Warriors" "Parker's having an Indian summer..Getting into the paint consistently..."


I like "light a candle for Parker" almost every game, I want TP to perform well but I know he won't do it against elite teams.

How someone who watches Spurs games can say "when Parker and Manu get hot" when they have the hot hand" they will never score +20 pts vs top teams, why it's that hard for you understand it.

They have other role now, I except they can make the right pass, the smart play to help the two main scorers to get going...But they won't get into the paint consistently ANYMORE.

I guess, you and Chinook are the only two guys who truly think that Parker can drive to the hoop against elite teams, even his die hard fans accept the reality.

[RD2191]

[Arcadian]

Kawhi has developed some excellent handles, and he has some tricky finishing moves. No reason why he can't become an elite penetrator.

[midnightpulp]

Well, there is a big difference between saying that someones hopes he can do it and...thinking/posting he will do it. ""He can score 25 points against Warriors" "Parker's having an Indian summer..Getting into the paint consistently..."


I like "light a candle for Parker" almost every game, I want TP to perform well but I know he won't do it against elite teams.

How someone who watches Spurs games can say "when Parker and Manu get hot" when they have the hot hand" they will never score +20 pts vs top teams, why it's that hard for you understand it.

They have other role now, I except they can make the right pass, the smart play to help the two main scorers to get going...But they won't get into the paint consistently ANYMORE.

I guess, you and Chinook are the only two guys who truly think that Parker can drive to the hoop against elite teams, even his die hard fans accept the reality.

Honestly, it's pointless to debate with you, since you're so intellectually dishonest and misquote posters for the purpose of strawmanning.

Here's what Chinook said:

If Tony's offense is having an Indian summer, he gets the ball.

Do you understand what "if" means?

And find me the quote where I said he "can" score 25 points against the Warriors? I remember saying he needs to be a "threat" to score that much if we're to have a shot. Also, "can" doesn't mean "will."

[midnightpulp]

Less midrange, more 3s/Layups, just like I wanted.

[skulls138]

Kawhi has developed some excellent handles, and he has some tricky finishing moves. No reason why he can't become an elite penetrator.

I love how he keeps his dribble and leads with his shoulder. If the guard gets in front of him he pauses and goes again but doesnt pick up the dribble.

[YGWHI]

I hear and agree but its more to do with the lack of help than Kawhi. Ill also agree that Kawhi looked a little flustered and tried to beat it through sheer force instead of passing in the GSW game. Ill just say it, its the lack of LA. I agreed with you in the beginning of the year, give it to LA and Kawhi can save energy for D by shooting threes off of teams double teaming LA, as well as Green and Patty...even Parker. But LA has to inspire confidence in the team. They have to want LA to be focal point and I think the team rallies around Kawhi much more. LA has to play like a man possessed in all phases of the game, for 48 minutes, every night. And hes got to do it for a long enough time that even Kawhi is willing to concede some of his power to him because Kawhis not going to just let LA take over on offense. LA still hasnt paid his dues yet.

He says that "Kawhi's hurting the team and put them at risk..." He already knows that LMA wasn't a consistent offensive option this season but it doesnt matter, he should know that Parker won't "provide the driving" but it doesn't matter...They aren't hurting the team. Just Kawhi

"Kawhi will never be a 20-guy..." I never read other Spurs fan being that wrong about Kawhi's game.

I get the low expectations from non-Spurs fans, they never watched him as Spur since his 1st season, but a Spurs fan who has seen his improvements season after season...

You have to be a real hater to keep betting against him every game.

[DMC]

Honestly, it's pointless to debate with you, since you're so intellectually dishonest and misquote posters for the purpose of strawmanning.

Here's what Chinook said:



Do you understand what "if" means?

And find me the quote where I said he "can" score 25 points against the Warriors? I remember saying he needs to be a "threat" to score that much if we're to have a shot. Also, "can" doesn't mean "will."

There's three of four gots on this forum who have that posting style and they have many different sock puppet accounts.

[FkLA]

Less midrange, more 3s/Layups, just like I wanted.

at GS:





at CLE (30 FGAs):





vs HOU (most recent match-up):




Midrange can result in wins too. Really, who cares as long as the Spurs win. This idea that there's an arbitrary amount of 3PT shots he has to take for the Spurs to have a shot is dumb.

[YGWHI]

Do you understand what "if" means?

IF means you truly think there is a possibility that something happens.

Most rational people know that won't happen anymore

Chinook said that Kawhi is hurting the team...Kawhi puts the team at risk...in this thread. But IF you want to act like he didnt...Fine. It doesn't surprise me at all. But then,you talk about intellectual dishonesty

[skulls138]

And "hurting" is a stretch in itself, especially after todays game. I have to eat a little crow myself for dogging LA. Hes a big reason for the comeback but its when hes a scrappy garbage man.

[YGWHI]

And "hurting" is a stretch in itself, especially after todays game. I have to eat a little crow myself for dogging LA. Hes a big reason for the comeback but its when hes a scrappy garbage man.

There are times when a player like Sabonis is on him...LMA should destroy that type of guys. For whatever reason he's not efficient exploiting those mismatches.

Pau did today, but most time our bigs don't take advantage of that. Which is crucial when this team doesn't have scoring threats at PG/SG positions, all what they have is their frontcourt.

[midnightpulp]

at GS:





at CLE (30 FGAs):





vs HOU (most recent match-up):




Midrange can result in wins too. Really, who cares as long as the Spurs win. This idea that there's an arbitrary amount of 3PT shots he has to take for the Spurs to have a shot is dumb.

No other top player takes over 50% of their shots from the midrange.. You can continue to deny the math, though.

Also, tell me what Kawhi shot from the midrange last playoffs?

[midnightpulp]

IF means you truly think there is a possibility that something happens.

Most rational people know that won't happen anymore

Chinook said that Kawhi is hurting the team...Kawhi puts the team at risk...in this thread. But IF you want to act like he didnt...Fine. It doesn't surprise me at all. But then,you talk about intellectual dishonesty

Most rational people also know the Spurs have the weakest guard rotation of all playoff teams, so the only logical thing to do is hope Parker finds a gear instead of bellyaching about how bad he plays sometimes.