It's bull anytime we are forced to buy-in to any govt funded/subsidized social service/program
enforced by imprisonment..
Education and healthcare suck because the government is already so highly involved. Why do so many people think more government intervention will help raise the standard. What a joke.
Healthcare is a commodity, not a right
It isn't lack of money that's to blame for the woes of the educational system - maybe more like the allocation of it - toward pensions, healthcare and expensive textbooks. I could educate an elementary age child (no visual, developmental or mental delay/disability) for less than $100 a year (with my computer, internet access, printer and card to a decent library system). It shouldn't cost over $12k per public school student (2012-13) for the outcomes we're getting.
I always find this argument amusing. If the the government is so inefficient then why are ideologues like yourself so afraid to put your money where your mouth is and allow a public option? If the free market is so much more efficient then it should have no issue competing.
I know you didn't bring it up but on the other side of the argument, why are we spending over $12k per public school student with not very good results and (from your comment above, "with health care metrics where the poor getting the shaft skews the result") assuming these poor are on Medicaid (a government-run program), why are they getting the shaft? And what about the VA - another government-run healthcare program? - not exactly shining examples these of government-run programs.
Teysha won this thread, imo tbh.
using google and Facebook as typical examples of what people get paid right out of school.
I did not mean to undermine the love of teaching some have - it's a different situation though with a 4 year degree and teaching (one doesn't have to teach the major they took in college - a BS/BA and passing the particular subject exam is sufficient). IMO, it would be a very foolish person who knowingly took on hundreds of thousands of dollars debt and over 12 years of schooling to earn $95k.
I still waiting to hear from those who support a single payer system how we get from where we are now (both education-wise and health-care salary-wise) to single payor and it be sustainable. And these certifying agencies aren't helping - before one needed only a BS to be a pharmacist - now you need a Doctor of Pharmacy degree. Do we lower our medical standards (not going to happen), lower the cost of educating these health care professionals, lower their salaries and do we change our legal system so that these lower-salaried, high-debt individuals can't get sued should they make mistakes?
What's amusing to me is people that say the government sucks, yet want to expand the power of govt.
You sort of answreed your own question, "if im weary of government inefficieny, " why the would i want to increase the flow of money into the public sector of healthcare?
Increasing power to the government means weakening the citizen.
You can have a public option, just dont force me to buy into it.
Innovation comes from the private sector, we have the best healthcare in the world because of the private sector
Capitalism works .
Last edited by D_Admiral; 05-14-2017 at 07:59 AM.
What is this - a pissing contest? (in which, I would lose everyday and twice on Sunday). It's not a matter of who won this thread - these are real concerns about getting to single payor from the system we have in place - major overhauls to the medical, educational and legal (judgements? - is that the right word for what you get when you win?) systems.
Happy Mother's Day! I am fortunate to have my 3 with me today - not many more of those occasions.
I'll just say that it's typical in my dd's world. And those smart, hard-working med students would be paying close attending to those salaries should their end salary be cut to $95k (like in Sweden). Don't you think the majority of them will be looking elsewhere for career choice?
Stop bull ting, everyone knows your daughter is pregnant in a trailer.
You and I are in full agreement that the educational process for med students is completely ed up.
Believe what you want.
I don't know why anybody needs insurance anyway. Just get you some of this :
You probably ought to know more about the VA system than your FOX masters tell you to think. I administered their contacts with the pharmaceutical companies for about 5 years. 40 or so billion....and the VA was ruthless in their pricing. This is one of the shining examples of what a central government can do. They got the best pricing on pharmaceuticals period...and all over the GPO's in the process. I loved enforcing their contacts. If Novartis didn't honor a negotiated price on a drug, the VA would pick a ridiculously expensive product and put it out for $1 until Novartis got their act together. It was gloriously effective.
"a group of people pooling together their resources for a specific purpose"= definition of insurance.
Most primitive insurance companies before the advent of modern capital systems were precisely that, i.e. a group of farmers banding together. There are still a few types of that company around.
The Amish have collectivized their risk. That meets the definition of insurance. I would guess that their "coverage" doesn't include things like modern surgeries, hip replacements, and so forth.
Ration care stringently enough, and you can make "insurance" as cheap as you want to.
funny you mention that, because swedish doctors dont graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and having a child doesnt quadruple their health insurance cost, unless you can find their disposable incomes gross salary is meaningless
Isn't that exactly the point? That here in the US, our salary scale, our educational costs, our ability to get sued - all factor into health care costs. That saying, "x country can do it for y fraction of the price here in the US," why can't we? Are the doctors, physician's assistants, nurses gonna accept the low pay that European doctors are willing to work for? Do we change our medical (salary-wise), educational (expensive) and legal (litigious) systems to become like Europe's? What do you mean about having a child doesn't quadruple their health insurance cost? The blurb does list after-tax salary (US$65k) - "After taxation, this last sum remains around 45000 SEK."
Pay for the doctors/nurses college, and they can easily take a pay cut.
Those big, bad socialist countries subsidize the creation of doctors and nurses, and shockingly enough, get more doctors and nurses.
Pay for doctors in this country has to be high to pay back the "free market" student loans. Make medical school cost less with subsidies, and, yes, those doctors and nurses could easily take pay cuts and still have more money in the long run.
I would agree with this and even go a step further. Pay for Doctors schooling if they agree to work for 10 or 15 years at government run clinics (similar to the private med clinics sprouting up everywhere) for a living wage but modest compared to docs now. The clinics would handle routine stuff for all on a walk-in basis...colds, cuts, infections, pre-natal care, etc. combination minor emergency and general prac ioner.
Then buy the insurance you want to handle other stuff...a catastrophic policy to cover only the expensive stuff you can't predict (heart, cancer, etc.) would be one price. Want to add elective surgery (knee replacements, etc.) it's another price. Don't want insurance but want a health savings account? Fine...All would be massively cheaper than we have now.
They need to limit patents on drugs and get more generics. Drug costs in the US are ridiculous.
Break the stranglehold the AMA has on medical schools. More graduates equals more compe ion equals lower prices.
And yeah, sucks but you can't have cheap health care without rationing.
The drunk or methhead on the corner holding a sign shouldn't get a free liver when he burns the first one out.
#blackliversmatter
Don't think it's the AMA - I think it's Medicare that determines/caps the funding/number of residents.
How does medicare do that?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
