Spurs interested in Bulls' Thomas?

[Mr. Body]

With the way things goes, Spurs' 2010 first round pick won't be a late one. Bulls could instead ask for Spurs' 2011 first round pick to have more capspace in 2010, but it likely won't be a late first round pick.

Giving up a mid first round pick for a risky gamble like Tyrus Thomas? It makes no sense.

Agree. With the way the Spurs are trending, these picks are getting closer to the lottery, outside shot at this year, even.

[Whisky Dog]

The Spurs shouldn't be trying to buy mental midgets for draft picks, they should be selling anything and everything to free up cap space and stockpile draft picks. In this league you need a star, and the Spurs don't have one and will never land a free agent star. They have to watch the college+overseas games and tank for the right star. Have to lose now to get better later. Only way it will ever work.

[exstatic]

Bulls management is telling teams they expect to take the bidding right to the Feb. 18 deadline. The Bulls want to avoid the possibility of Thomas accepting a $6.2 million qualifying offer on the eve of this summer’s free agency, which would deliver a major dent to their salary-cap space. Thomas, 23, will be a restricted free agent this summer.


Wow. That pretty much would make it TT or Ginobili next summer.

[mountainballer]

the Spurs won't hand out an unprotected 1st rounder.(well at least I assume this)
but they will need to sacrifice something, if they want to get something done.
next years draft doesn't look that good (not bad either, pretty deep with decent bigs. low on star potential though)
on the one hand we are desperate to see at least something happen, on the other hand, the miraculous power of expiring contracts ends at the moment another team offers such contracts as well. and there are tons of expiring contracts out there this year.
we can discuss, if TT is in fact worth a #20 pick.
question is: if he isn't worth the risk of sacrifice such a pick, is he worth the deal at all???
simple answer: No.

[TJastal]

The Spurs shouldn't be trying to buy mental midgets for draft picks, they should be selling anything and everything to free up cap space and stockpile draft picks. In this league you need a star, and the Spurs don't have one and will never land a free agent star. They have to watch the college+overseas games and tank for the right star. Have to lose now to get better later. Only way it will ever work.

And this method has been such a huge success for the spurs lately huh? (see: Ian Mahinmi). :lol

Thomas is 24 years old, former 4th pick in the draft just a few years ago and has a huge upside. He'd be undoubtedly still starting as the bulls' power forward if Taj Gibson hadn't literally come out of nowhere and took his starting job.

With some coaching and discipline and the raw physical tools Thomas already possesses he could easily develop into a hugely successful player. The guy already has a track record of proven results (see: last year's playoffs).

If this doesn't scream out "opportunity" I don't know what does. It's an opportunity only a "mental midget" would ignore IMO.

[lurker23]

You have to wonder which of these two offers the Bulls would choose:

Spurs: Thomas and Salmons for expirings plus second round pick
Another team: Thomas for expirings plus first round pick

It's hard to say, but I think they'd at least consider the deal where they get more cap space for next year.

If the bidding price is taking Salmons or Hinrich AND giving a first rounder, I don't think I'd want the Spurs to bid that high.

[Whisky Dog]

And this method has been such a huge success for the spurs lately huh? (see: Ian Mahinmi). :lol

Thomas is 24 years old, former 4th pick in the draft just a few years ago and has a huge upside. He'd be undoubtedly still starting as the bulls' power forward if Taj Gibson hadn't literally come out of nowhere and took his starting job.

With some coaching and discipline and the raw physical tools Thomas already possesses he could easily develop into a hugely successful player. The guy already has a track record of proven results (see: last year's playoffs).

If this doesn't scream out "opportunity" I don't know what does. It's an opportunity only a "mental midget" would ignore IMO.

Mahinmi was a very late round pick taken as a project flyer by a team coming off a title with superstars in their primes. That's not what I am talking about.

The Spurs history of success has been on sucking hard, getting the high pick, and making the most out of it by taking a huge talent. That's the only way this team can succeed since no big time free agent will choose to play in SA.

TT has potential and upside, but he has a ton of baggage. He's mentally deficient, makes a lot of mistakes, has a low bball IQ, and is overly emotional to the point of detrement to the team environment. He is a bust as the #4 pick and was only taken that high after a hot streak in the NCAA tourney. Wasting cap room and a high 1st rounder plus talent for that would be incredibly stupid given he won't be the difference between a title shot this year or not.

If the Spurs want long term success again they will have to sacrifice the short term now and try to get as many future assets as possible for the old assets (Manu) they have now. Then it's a matter of building a solid team based on properly applying those picks and looking for the next superstar talent to come along for the taking and making a play for it. It's how they got Duncan, and it's the only way to go forward.

[TJastal]

Mahinmi was a very late round pick taken as a project flyer by a team coming off a title with superstars in their primes. That's not what I am talking about.

The Spurs history of success has been on sucking hard, getting the high pick, and making the most out of it by taking a huge talent. That's the only way this team can succeed since no big time free agent will choose to play in SA.

TT has potential and upside, but he has a ton of baggage. He's mentally deficient, makes a lot of mistakes, has a low bball IQ, and is overly emotional to the point of detrement to the team environment. He is a bust as the #4 pick and was only taken that high after a hot streak in the NCAA tourney. Wasting cap room and a high 1st rounder plus talent for that would be incredibly stupid given he won't be the difference between a title shot this year or not.

If the Spurs want long term success again they will have to sacrifice the short term now and try to get as many future assets as possible for the old assets (Manu) they have now. Then it's a matter of building a solid team based on properly applying those picks and looking for the next superstar talent to come along for the taking and making a play for it. It's how they got Duncan, and it's the only way to go forward.

So what you're telling us is you're giving up on this year and the rest of the Duncan era and suggesting the spur start trading away all their assets starting with Manu Ginobili and start tanking and hoping to get a lucky lottery pick as a preferred strategy of future success? Do I have that summed up correctly?

[TJastal]

TT has potential and upside, but he has a ton of baggage. He's mentally deficient, makes a lot of mistakes, has a low bball IQ, and is overly emotional to the point of detrement to the team environment. He is a bust as the #4 pick and was only taken that high after a hot streak in the NCAA tourney. Wasting cap room and a high 1st rounder plus talent for that would be incredibly stupid given he won't be the difference between a title shot this year or not.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/apr/19/sports/chi-19-bulls-side-chicago-apr19

Chicago Bulls playoff newcomers did just fine
John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah all come up big against Boston Celtics

Tyrus Thomas scored six of his 16 points in overtime, including the game-winning jumper, after playing mere spot minutes in the Bulls’ 2007 playoff run.

[dbestpro]

So what you're telling us is you're giving up on this year and the rest of the Duncan era and suggesting the spur start trading away all their assets starting with Manu Ginobili and start tanking and hoping to get a lucky lottery pick as a preferred strategy of future success? Do I have that summed up correctly?

Hmm. It worked before.

[akilmomin]

just fucking use Ian, I don't see a point in trading for TT. They both are same players in almost every single aspects of the game. May be Ian fouls and still learning the game. But give him time and he will turn out to be a better product floor. Hell, Ian started playing basketball at the age of 16 or 18 so pop give him a break. Pop has been coaching for years and he still can't coach. Give this guy a little more time on the court and see what comes out and if nothing is to be worked he can go away next year. I don't see how TT will help this team at all.

[Big P]

Reading some of the rumors....portland offered outlaw to chicago for TT....the bobcats offered acie law...it looks like there will be a lot better offers than what the Spurs can offer for tt

[TJastal]

just fucking use Ian, I don't see a point in trading for TT. They both are same players in almost every single aspects of the game. May be Ian fouls and still learning the game. But give him time and he will turn out to be a better product floor. Hell, Ian started playing basketball at the age of 16 or 18 so pop give him a break. Pop has been coaching for years and he still can't coach. Give this guy a little more time on the court and see what comes out and if nothing is to be worked he can go away next year. I don't see how TT will help this team at all.

Pop is wed to his strategy of small-ball that's why Thomas is the perfect fit. Or would you rather he keep playing the Jefferson/Finley combo that is currently sucking major ass?

[Whisky Dog]

So what you're telling us is you're giving up on this year and the rest of the Duncan era and suggesting the spur start trading away all their assets starting with Manu Ginobili and start tanking and hoping to get a lucky lottery pick as a preferred strategy of future success? Do I have that summed up correctly?

Giving up on the Duncan era is continuing to underachieve with bad pieces that don't fit, and adding another bad piece that had one good 1st round series 2 years ago but has fallen off into an emotional baby since would be giving up too.

I'd shop Manu for the right mix including a 1st rounder if available. Timmy is a damn good center these days but no longer an elite player. He needs to be surrounded with youth and talent, and going into next season with two 1st round picks (a lotto pick and another team's pick) plus a rested and healthy Parker as the focal point plus some veteran free agents is the best way to start moving forward.

[portnoy1]

just fucking use Ian, I don't see a point in trading for TT. They both are same players in almost every single aspects of the game. May be Ian fouls and still learning the game. But give him time and he will turn out to be a better product floor. Hell, Ian started playing basketball at the age of 16 or 18 so pop give him a break. Pop has been coaching for years and he still can't coach. Give this guy a little more time on the court and see what comes out and if nothing is to be worked he can go away next year. I don't see how TT will help this team at all.
The spurs have lots of pieces. young pieces at that. Hairston is younger more athletic Bogans. Mahinmi can develop if he is given legit time against legit opposing bench/starting players, just look at blair and blair has a major height disadvantage and still produces well.

[TJastal]

Giving up on the Duncan era is continuing to underachieve with bad pieces that don't fit, and adding another bad piece that had one good 1st round series 2 years ago but has fallen off into an emotional baby since would be giving up too.

I'd shop Manu for the right mix including a 1st rounder if available. Timmy is a damn good center these days but no longer an elite player. He needs to be surrounded with youth and talent, and going into next season with two 1st round picks (a lotto pick and another team's pick) plus a rested and healthy Parker as the focal point plus some veteran free agents is the best way to start moving forward.

Thomas came up big in last year's playoffs, not two years ago. Thomas would not be a "bad fit". His energy, athleticism and shot blocking would be fit seamlessly into what the spurs need right now. He would have not 1, not 2, but 3 solid veteran big men to whisper in his ear about how to act and play like a professional. And he has a proven track record of success in the playoffs. What more do you want? The guy's pissed off that he lost his job to a rookie who's not even as good as him. I think I'd be pissed off too if that happened.

Trading away Manu for raw draft picks and hoping they can contribute enough to be able contend next year is just utter lunacy. This team doesn't need a major overhaul it needs a few tweaks.

[SenorSpur]

It seems that ESPN's Chad Ford also agrees to the viability of such a trade between the Spurs and Bulls. No word on whether talks are active:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100211

3. Bulls-Spurs

Chicago gets: Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, draft rights to Tiago Splitter

San Antonio gets: John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas

Would Chicago do it?
On the surface, it might seem that the Bulls would get killed in this deal because the Spurs would be getting the two best players in the trade.

But the Bulls have good reason to move Salmons and Thomas, neither of whom is in the team's long-term plans: They want the cap space such a trade would provide. Chicago can set itself up to be a serious player in free agency this summer, given the appeal of the market and the foundation of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah.

Bonner and Mason, who have expiring contracts, could contribute this season, and Splitter is a good prospect who could come in and help the Bulls in the middle next season. As a former first-round draft pick who has established himself in Europe, he might fit the bill if the Bulls are looking to get talent and/or picks in return for Thomas.

And then, if they can pull off trade No. 4 (see below), the Bulls could be in great position going into the summer shopping season. Chicago could be an attractive destination for the likes of James, Wade and Bosh or, at worst, players like Joe Johnson and David Lee.

Would San Antonio do it?
Maybe. The team needs immediate help, as they get older and fall behind the rest of the West. Both Salmons and Thomas would give the Spurs some younger legs, with Salmons also providing offensive punch and Thomas some defense and rebounding.

Thomas' problems in getting along with his coaches have been well-documented, but perhaps he would respond better to a coach like Gregg Popovich and a veteran team led by Tim Duncan. If so, Thomas could become a huge asset to the Spurs over the long haul.

The Spurs rarely make trades like this, but I can't think of a better one for them right now.

[TJastal]

It seems that ESPN's Chad Ford also agrees to the viability of such a trade between the Spurs and Bulls. No word on whether talks are active:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100211

3. Bulls-Spurs

Chicago gets: Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, draft rights to Tiago Splitter

San Antonio gets: John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas

Would Chicago do it?
On the surface, it might seem that the Bulls would get killed in this deal because the Spurs would be getting the two best players in the trade.

But the Bulls have good reason to move Salmons and Thomas, neither of whom is in the team's long-term plans: They want the cap space such a trade would provide. Chicago can set itself up to be a serious player in free agency this summer, given the appeal of the market and the foundation of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah.

Bonner and Mason, who have expiring contracts, could contribute this season, and Splitter is a good prospect who could come in and help the Bulls in the middle next season. As a former first-round draft pick who has established himself in Europe, he might fit the bill if the Bulls are looking to get talent and/or picks in return for Thomas.

And then, if they can pull off trade No. 4 (see below), the Bulls could be in great position going into the summer shopping season. Chicago could be an attractive destination for the likes of James, Wade and Bosh or, at worst, players like Joe Johnson and David Lee.

Would San Antonio do it?
Maybe. The team needs immediate help, as they get older and fall behind the rest of the West. Both Salmons and Thomas would give the Spurs some younger legs, with Salmons also providing offensive punch and Thomas some defense and rebounding.

Thomas' problems in getting along with his coaches have been well-documented, but perhaps he would respond better to a coach like Gregg Popovich and a veteran team led by Tim Duncan. If so, Thomas could become a huge asset to the Spurs over the long haul.

The Spurs rarely make trades like this, but I can't think of a better one for them right now.

I should apply for a job as an analyst at ESPN. :king

[yavozerb]

No chance..why would the spurs pick up an additional contract of 5mil on offensive player like salmons for next season, have to come up with 6mil to keep thomas next season, and oh ya, go ahead and take the spurs top prospect. This madness has got to stop, cant wait for feb 18.

[cdcast]

According to Yahoo Sports: the Knicks, Kings, Nuggets, Hornets, and Spurs have talked
to the Bulls about Thomas. The Bulls want expirings and a 1st rd. pick.

I read somewhere else that said Wade would consider signing with the Bulls this summer if
they sign another max-type free agent (according to someone close to Wade).

[SenorSpur]

Spurs will be LUCKY to land Tyrus Thomas with this much interest he's garnering around the league. Spurs probably aren't going to be able to make enough of an offer even with Splitter included to win the sweepstakes.

Fucking hilarious that spurs' fans don't even want to include a guy who is anyone's guess whether or not he ever even comes to the NBA.

Really pathetic.

I. for one, have come around on the idea of adding the rights to Splitter to this trade offer. With the other proposed deals, that seemingly include 1st round picks from other teams, on the table and the sudden interest in Thomas, I'd much rather part with HIS rights, than give away ANOTHER 1st round pick. If that's what it takes to do the deal, GET 'ER DONE.

[TJastal]

No chance..why would the spurs pick up an additional contract of 5mil on offensive player like salmons for next season, have to come up with 6mil to keep thomas next season, and oh ya, go ahead and take the spurs top prospect. This madness has got to stop, cant wait for feb 18.

Because it has been said that Holt is willing to pay the tax this year and next year. Salmons / Thomas = :lobt2:

[yavozerb]

Because it has been said that Holt is willing to pay the tax this year and next year. Salmons / Thomas = :lobt2:

So we pay players like thomas who has done nothing 6+ mil and give up a 7 footer who is the same age and could get paid the same? Dumbest idea ever!!

[SenorSpur]

According to Yahoo Sports: the Knicks, Kings, Nuggets, Hornets, and Spurs have talked
to the Bulls about Thomas. The Bulls want expirings and a 1st rd. pick.

I read somewhere else that said Wade would consider signing with the Bulls this summer if
they sign another max-type free agent (according to someone close to Wade).

The Bulls are certainly in the driver seat on this - especially now that more suitors have come to the table. If that's true and the Bulls are holding tight for a first rounder, don't give away the 2010 pick, offer up the 2011 pick.

In fact, isn't there some NBA rule that prohibits a team from trading away 1st round picks in consecutive years?

[TJastal]

I. for one, have come around on the idea of adding the rights to Splitter to this trade offer. With the other proposed deals, that seemingly include 1st round picks from other teams, on the table and the sudden interest in Thomas, I'd much rather part with HIS rights, than give away ANOTHER 1st round pick. If that's what it takes to do the deal, GET 'ER DONE.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/151/larry20the20cable20guy.jpg

[TJastal]

So we pay players like thomas who has done nothing 6+ mil and give up a 7 footer who is the same age and could get paid the same? Dumbest idea ever!!

Mahinmi is almost 7 foot tall too. what did that get him? Reality check time.. Popovich and small ball are like an intertwined pair now. Might as well get the piece(s) that fit the system the coach is using.

Get it. Got it. Good.

[temujin]

That trade would be ideal to definitely turn a respected franchise into the GSW.

Thomas bb IQ is not very high and Salmons defense is questionable at best.

Trading Splitter = Scola trade 2.0.

[SenorSpur]

Mahinmi is almost 7 foot tall too. what did that get him? Reality check time.. Popovich and small ball are like an intertwined pair now. Might as well get the piece(s) that fit the system the coach is using.

Get it. Got it. Good.

If the Spurs do end of giving up the rights to Splitter, that will make their decision to NOT pick up the option on Ian look awfully foolish.

[yavozerb]

Mahinmi is almost 7 foot tall too. what did that get him? Reality check time.. Popovich and small ball are like an intertwined pair now. Might as well get the piece(s) that fit the system the coach is using.

Get it. Got it. Good.

Apparently, you havn't kept up with tiago splitter. Comparing him and mahinmi is dumb considering that Splitter is considered the best bigman in europe and Ian cant even get much playing time with his national team. Why would the spurs want another undersized PF when they already have blair for about 3.5 million $ less and he locked up for a couple more years? Its one thing to blow this team up, but why blow up the team for years to come.

[The Truth #6]

Salmons and Thomas are good prospects but would not guarantee us a title. Not even close in my opinion. A lot of obstacles: being able to fit into the Spurs culture, learning the soul crushing System on the fly with almost no time to practice, earning the elusive trust of Pop and actually get minutes, hoping for Pop not to crush their spirits and/or put them in a position/situation that ill fits their comfort level. I think they could help the team, but getting them really suggests a whole new System if we expect them to succeed. This isn't a small tweek this is a big change. Trading all these crappy System players for new players is not that much different than blowing things up. Yes, we'd still have Manu and Parker but the team as a whole has to gel and this is a high gamble.

No matter what changes we make its not going to fix our problems immediately. Given that, I'd like to see the team move forward smartly and acquire youth and draft picks when possible.

For us to move all these expirings it is a major change and I think it should be recognized as that.

[dbestpro]

I have come to believe that no trade this year will make the Spurs title contenders and that we are better off standing pat. We have about 23 mil in expiring contracts for next year and a very good trade asset in RJs 15 mil contract. Stand pat and reload over the summer with Duncan, Parker, Blair, Hill, Hairston and maybe Splitter. Then go for the gusto in trade or free agent. Why should we give up our position to sign a stud FA to Chicago for Thomas and Salmons?

[TJastal]

Apparently, you havn't kept up with tiago splitter. Comparing him and mahinmi is dumb considering that Splitter is considered the best bigman in europe and Ian cant even get much playing time with his national team. Why would the spurs want another undersized PF when they already have blair for about 3.5 million $ less and he locked up for a couple more years? Its one thing to blow this team up, but why blow up the team for years to come.

Who's saying he's the best in Europe? From everything I've seen, Splitter has no post game and is softer than tissue paper. WTF is he going to bring to the team? Oh right, absolutely nothing. He's nothing but a wasted pick.

I'd rather have that Bourrosis guy any day, at least he's a legit 7 foot with muscle that would give the spurs an interior presence which is something they could use, not a softie like Splitter.

[temujin]

Splitter is one of 3 best big men in the Euroleague.
Pekovic and Bouroussis being the other two.

Next to Duncan (even a fading Duncan), I predict 8-10 ppg and 5-7 rpg in 20', his rookie season.
Easily.

[yavozerb]

Who's saying he's the best in Europe? From everything I've seen, Splitter has no post game and is softer than tissue paper. WTF is he going to bring to the team? Oh right, absolutely nothing. He's nothing but a wasted pick.

I'd rather have that Bourrosis guy any day, at least he's a legit 7 foot with muscle that would give the spurs an interior presence which is something they could use, not a softie like Splitter.

Thanks for proving my point..:lol

[temujin]

Who's saying he's the best in Europe? From everything I've seen, SCOLA has no post game and is softer than tissue paper. WTF is he going to bring to the team? Oh right, absolutely nothing. He's nothing but a wasted pick.

I'd rather have that Bourrosis guy any day, at least he's a legit 7 foot with muscle that would give the spurs an interior presence which is something they could use, not a softie like SCOLA.

I guess you posted this already in 2007.

[TJastal]

Splitter is one of 3 best big men in the Euroleague.
Pekovic and Bouroussis being the other two.

Next to Duncan (even a fading Duncan), I predict 8-10 ppg and 5-7 rpg in 20', his rookie season.
Easily.

I predict 4ppg / 2rb and will be sitting on the bench by the midway point next year... for the bulls.

Meanwhile, Thomas and Salmons will be leading the spurs to a :lobt2:

[Pentagruel]

If you think Salmons and TT will lead the Spurs to a championship you are delusional.

[TJastal]

If you think Salmons and TT will lead the Spurs to a championship you are delusional.

Apparently Chad Ford at ESPN is too.. maybe you should fire him off a letter and let him know just how delusional he is. And all those teams lining up at the door to inquire about Thomas .. send those guys letters too while your at it...

:lol

[SenorSpur]

For those that are skeptical or that thumb their noses at this potential trade, I've got news for you. The Spurs ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE to winning a title, as currently constructed. In fact, the Spurs are YEARS AWAY.:depressed

Combine that with the fact that Manu is as good as gone this summer, and throw in the failed RJ trade, and this team is heading in the opposition direction - FAST. With the average age of this roster getting older, the only way to stave this off and improve the talent level is get younger.

Therefore, like it or not and whether anyone admits it or not - they already primed to start rebuilding. Adding Salmons and Thomas will help speed that process along.

[lurker23]

I'd much rather give up a draft pick than Splitter at this point. Draft pick = chance of a good player. Splitter = already a good player.

That said, I'm open to giving up Splitter in a trade, but only if it's for something big. I like the Thomas/Salmons trade, but it's not a big one, it's simply an incremental step up.

[yavozerb]

Apparently Chad Ford at ESPN is too.. maybe you should fire him off a letter and let him know just how delusional he is. And all those teams lining up at the door to inquire about Thomas .. send those guys letters too while your at it...

:lol

Ya, the knicks, kings,spurs, and hornets are all knocking on the door for a championship with thomas's help..keep trying. :nope

[TJastal]

I'd much rather give up a draft pick than Splitter at this point. Draft pick = chance of a good player. Splitter = already a good player.

I'm open to giving up Splitter in a trade, but only if it's for something big. I like the Thomas/Salmons trade, but it's not a big one, it's simply an incremental step up.

I think its funny everyone is just assuming that Splitter is going to to be good the moment he steps into the NBA

This is what is more likely going to be in store for Splitter when he comes to the NBA:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7809/34241222074190b069aco.jpg

[TJastal]

Ya, the knicks, kings,spurs, and hornets are all knocking on the door for a championship with thomas's help..keep trying. :nope

Spurs actually are a tweak or two from being a contender. But who really cares if they are championship contenders or not.. teams are still interested.. that's the point.

But your argument even fails in its own logic.. since the nuggets are looking at him as well... Now why would they be interested? Since they are a Top 3 team in the west right now.

[lurker23]

I think its funny everyone is just assuming that Splitter is going to to be good the moment he steps into the NBA

This is what is more likely going to be in store for Splitter when he comes to the NBA:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7809/34241222074190b069aco.jpg

So rather than a top 3 big man in Europe, you'd rather take your chances with some kid who went to his senior prom 14 months ago, or a 6-8 former lottery pick who isn't getting any kind of extension offer from a team who invested a lot of time and money into him? Okay.

[TJastal]

So rather than a top 3 big man in Europe, you'd rather take your chances with some kid who went to his senior prom 14 months ago, or a 6-8 former lottery pick who isn't getting any kind of extension offer from a team who invested a lot of time and money into him? Okay.

Thomas has proven his effectiveness already. In the playoffs. Against a mighty celtics squad. What has Splitter proven so far? Other than he's a flake who likes to change his mind alot? Sorry, but I'll take the proven player NOW not something unproven next year.

Thomas wouldn't be on the table AT ALL if not for the surprise development of Taj Gibson who is a much cheaper option. And he probably would be still starting and everything hunky dorry with him and Chi-town if there were no significant free agents available this upcoming summer like Bron, Bosh and Wade.

The bulls saw an opportunity to cut themselves a chance at an opportunity for one of these free agents. That is the ONLY reason he is available for cheap right now.

[The Truth #6]

For those that are skeptical or that thumb their noses at this potential trade, I've got news for you. The Spurs ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE to winning a title, as currently constructed. In fact, the Spurs are YEARS AWAY.:depressed

Combine that with the fact that Manu is as good as gone this summer, and throw in the failed RJ trade, and this team is heading in the opposition direction - FAST. With the average age of this roster getting older, the only way to stave this off and improve the talent level is get younger.

Therefore, like it or not and whether anyone admits it or not - they already primed to start rebuilding. Adding Salmons and Thomas will help speed that process along.

These are good points.

Change is going to come. There's no way around it. I just want the FO to recognize what the changes entail and have a legitimate plan in place. In my opinion, trying to "save the season" is foolish at this point, though it seems like this is the position the FO is taking. In other words, they're showing desperation and panic. Then again, maybe not, because no trade has been made yet.

Anyway, what happens at the trade deadline could be huge for what steps the team takes going forward.

In my opinion, because big change is going happen no matter what, I think the FO needs to reexamine their focus and how to move forward.

I don't see Pop having the mindset to rebuild nor the patience. Like veterans, he's set in his ways. I think the best thing is for Pop to move to the FO permanently so he can focus on hanging out in Europe scouting talent and new grape varietals. I think a new coach is needed to actually implement a bunch of new players. I think Avery is already handpicked to be the successor and so I think he should start next year. This probably sounds controversial but I don't think it is. It's just an admission of where things are at and where things are going.

[lurker23]

Thomas has proven his effectiveness already. In the playoffs. Against a mighty celtics squad. What has Splitter proven so far? Other than he's a flake who likes to change his mind alot? Sorry, but I'll take the proven player NOW not something unproven next year.

Thomas wouldn't be on the table AT ALL if not for the surprise development of Taj Gibson who is a much cheaper option. And he probably would be still starting and everything hunky dorry with him and Chi-town if there were no significant free agents available this upcoming summer like Bron, Bosh and Wade.

The bulls saw an opportunity to cut themselves a chance at an opportunity for one of these free agents. That is the ONLY reason he is available for cheap right now.

I generally agree with the whole "bird in the hand" theory, but what happens if the Spurs do get Thomas? Their options are working with him on an extension, or offering him the Qualifying Offer at the end of the season. If he becomes a restricted free agent, will the Spurs really match if some team goes after him with MLE type money to try to get a young big man? If he takes the QO, you have him for another year (at a somewhat hefty $6.25 million), but he's unrestricted at the end of that season.

That's why I view a Thomas trade as a rental, albeit a slightly better one than a veteran expiring contract. I'd rather sign Splitter for 3 or 4 years this offseason than have Thomas for 0.25 or 1.25 of a season. (That is, unless the Spurs FO REALLY likes Thomas for some reason, but I doubt it; at this point, I'd guess their attitude is more like, "he's probably worth a look.")

[benefactor]

I'd much rather give up a draft pick than Splitter at this point. Draft pick = chance of a good player. Splitter = already a good player.

That said, I'm open to giving up Splitter in a trade, but only if it's for something big. I like the Thomas/Salmons trade, but it's not a big one, it's simply an incremental step up.
This. Splitter is a deal breaker with Chicago.

[LOL@MavsFan]

Go Spurs Go!

[temujin]

Thomas has proven his effectiveness already. In the playoffs. Against a mighty celtics squad. What has Splitter proven so far? Other than he's a flake who likes to change his mind alot? Sorry, but I'll take the proven player NOW not something unproven next year.

Thomas wouldn't be on the table AT ALL if not for the surprise development of Taj Gibson who is a much cheaper option. And he probably would be still starting and everything hunky dorry with him and Chi-town if there were no significant free agents available this upcoming summer like Bron, Bosh and Wade.

The bulls saw an opportunity to cut themselves a chance at an opportunity for one of these free agents. That is the ONLY reason he is available for cheap right now.

1) You got benched by a rookie, mostly because you are dumb and getting dumber?
Welcome to the Spurs.

2) You are an elite big, with a polished game that could easily be compared to Gasol (PAU gasol)?
Welcome to the Bulls.

You know nothing about Euroleague basketball.

[Pentagruel]

Spurs actually are a tweak or two from being a contender. But who really cares if they are championship contenders or not.. teams are still interested.. that's the point.

But your argument even fails in its own logic.. since the nuggets are looking at him as well... Now why would they be interested? Since they are a Top 3 team in the west right now.


The Spurs are not a tweak or two from being a contender. They need to make serious changes and in all likely-hood, that won't happen via trade this season. Suggesting that this trade would give the Spurs a shot at a championship is ludicrous.

[temujin]

No trade can change the course of this season significantly.

Several chenges could fuck up the future for good, though.

[SenorSpur]

These are good points.

Change is going to come. There's no way around it. I just want the FO to recognize what the changes entail and have a legitimate plan in place. In my opinion, trying to "save the season" is foolish at this point, though it seems like this is the position the FO is taking. In other words, they're showing desperation and panic. Then again, maybe not, because no trade has been made yet.

Anyway, what happens at the trade deadline could be huge for what steps the team takes going forward.

In my opinion, because big change is going happen no matter what, I think the FO needs to reexamine their focus and how to move forward.

I don't see Pop having the mindset to rebuild nor the patience. Like veterans, he's set in his ways. I think the best thing is for Pop to move to the FO permanently so he can focus on hanging out in Europe scouting talent and new grape varietals. I think a new coach is needed to actually implement a bunch of new players. I think Avery is already handpicked to be the successor and so I think he should start next year. This probably sounds controversial but I don't think it is. It's just an admission of where things are at and where things are going.

Any thoughts or plans of trying to save THIS season would be very foolish. About as foolish as their decision NOT to pickup Ian's option. However, that shouldn't perclude them from making this team. Thomas and Salmons are young enough and productive enough that they CAN be part of the eminent rebuilding.

Your other point about Pop is good. He, and the entire FO, need to realize that this team, and their championship window, cannot be saved. Jerry Sloan, who is about as non-tolerant and stubborn as Pop, had to go through the same rebuilding cycle with the Jazz. They had a few tough seasons at or near the bottom, but rebuilt on the fly and now they're back. In fact, they did it relatively quickly because they didn't waste time trying to patch an aging roster.

Pop and the Spurs need to face the obvious and do the same realization too. I'd like to see him continue on coaching too. However if he doesn't have the stomach for the fight, or doesn't have the patience to coach these incoming young players into becoming better players, then he should step-up and step down at the same time.

All that said, the Spurs desparately NEED to do this deal.

[TJastal]

1) You got benched by a rookie, mostly because you are dumb and getting dumber?
Welcome to the Spurs.

2) You are an elite big, with a polished game that could easily be compared to Gasol (PAU gasol)?
Welcome to the Bulls.

You know nothing about Euroleague basketball.

You have reading comprehension problems huh? I repeat for the reading impaired: The reason Thomas is not starting is not because he's stupid its because the bulls lucked into finding a guy who's cheaper and almost as good and want to move him to free up salary for a shot at Lebron/Wade/Bosh this summer. Get it yet?

And comparing a Euro douche without even any post game to one of the most skilled big men in the NBA is funny.

[SenorSpur]

Spurs actually are a tweak or two from being a contender.

:nope
Tou can't really believe that.

[Pentagruel]

No trade can change the course of this season significantly.

Several chenges could fuck up the future for good, though.


I agree with this.

[jb4g]

I have come to believe that no trade this year will make the Spurs title contenders and that we are better off standing pat. We have about 23 mil in expiring contracts for next year and a very good trade asset in RJs 15 mil contract. Stand pat and reload over the summer with Duncan, Parker, Blair, Hill, Hairston and maybe Splitter. Then go for the gusto in trade or free agent. Why should we give up our position to sign a stud FA to Chicago for Thomas and Salmons?

x2

[Whisky Dog]

This Tjastal kid cracks me up with how highly he rates TT.

The Bulls are a young team looking for young talent. TT is young and on their team and is getting beaten out by a rookie, and not even a top front line rookie. Gibson is good but not anywhere near great and no way he beats out TT for time if Thomas isn't a complete headcase who just doesn't fit. This is the guy you rubes want to trade our potential cap space and Splitter/ possible lottery pick for? Really? A guy who can't beat out a decent rookie for time on a mediocre team?

What I want to see is a list of FA that the Spurs could use the freed space on by all of these expiring contracts. Also, next year Jefferson becomes a big ass expiring contract that could be valuable to landing a piece that fits.

You don't mortgage your future for a dumpy dumb ass with attitude problems and limited game. If the Spurs just want to be a good team that makes the playoffs but has zero shot at a title then you do stuff like this. If they want a future shot at contending they need to land greatness in the draft, and the only way to do that is to suck now and use your assets wisely to build up.

[Whisky Dog]

Any thoughts or plans of trying to save THIS season would be very foolish. About as foolish as their decision NOT to pickup Ian's option. However, that shouldn't perclude them from making this team. Thomas and Salmons are young enough and productive enough that they CAN be part of the eminent rebuilding.

Your other point about Pop is good. He, and the entire FO, need to realize that this team, and their championship window, cannot be saved. Jerry Sloan, who is about as non-tolerant and stubborn as Pop, had to go through the same rebuilding cycle with the Jazz. They had a few tough seasons at or near the bottom, but rebuilt on the fly and now they're back. In fact, they did it relatively quickly because they didn't waste time trying to patch an aging roster.

Pop and the Spurs need to face the obvious and do the same realization too. I'd like to see him continue on coaching too. However if he doesn't have the stomach for the fight, or doesn't have the patience to coach these incoming young players into becoming better players, then he should step-up and step down at the same time.

All that said, the Spurs desparately NEED to do this deal.

I think your argument about the Jazz shows that they shouldn't make the deal. Tying up 6 mil in a flawed kid is not the way to rebuild, that would be trying to patch up this season. They need cap space, good 1st round lottery pick or two, and some shrewd dealing/player evals to get back to contending. It will take time but the right moves will pay big dividends. I agree Pop needs to evaluate himself and whether or not he can stomach rebuilding and the intense teaching and patience that will be required.

[Whisky Dog]

The difference between teams like the clips, kings, and bucks that always suck and teams that stay on top is the ability to draft talent and sign talent that fit a winning scheme and plan, not just add any talent that seems to be the best available and overpay. Great teams look at what a guy can being to the whole, not just what he can do individually. The Spurs and Pop were masters of this a few years ago. They've abandoned it recently and it has bitten them.

[SenorSpur]

I have come to believe that no trade this year will make the Spurs title contenders and that we are better off standing pat. We have about 23 mil in expiring contracts for next year and a very good trade asset in RJs 15 mil contract. Stand pat and reload over the summer with Duncan, Parker, Blair, Hill, Hairston and maybe Splitter. Then go for the gusto in trade or free agent. Why should we give up our position to sign a stud FA to Chicago for Thomas and Salmons?

Standing pat for what? Every team with cap space will be vying for services of the big free agent fish. Are you forgetting the reason the Spurs elected to cast their lot with RJ this past summer is because they didn't realistically believe they could be players in that sweepstakes and they felt they needed help now. Besides, there aren't any FA that will be willing to come to SA. Why would they? The Spurs are a declining team with mediocre talent. While other teams are up and coming, the Spurs are clearly headed the other way.

Again, if you're thinking this team needs to simply reload and they'll be able to continue on their championship run, think again. The Big 3 have gotten older and more injury-prone. There's a lot of miles on those wheels and you're seeing the negative affects occur right before your eyes. No longer can you simply expect to put parts around them. This is an old team with and old core of players.

The failed RJ trade has signaled the end of the championship window. Next year Duncan will be 34, Manu will be gone, and RJ likely traded this summer. The expiring contracts are assets. Assets that can and should be used to begin rebuildig with younger, cheaper, more talented players that can be had now - not this summer.

Standing pat, means missing out on young talent and getting older in the process. The Spurs have to acquire their talent via draft and trades. A trade of this type isn't for this year. It's to help build a new core for the next several years. The sooner they start rebuilding, the sooner they can back into contention.

[TJastal]

This Tjastal kid cracks me up with how highly he rates TT.

The Bulls are a young team looking for young talent. TT is young and on their team and is getting beaten out by a rookie, and not even a top front line rookie. Gibson is good but not anywhere near great and no way he beats out TT for time if Thomas isn't a complete headcase who just doesn't fit. This is the guy you rubes want to trade our potential cap space and Splitter/ possible lottery pick for? Really? A guy who can't beat out a decent rookie for time on a mediocre team?

What I want to see is a list of FA that the Spurs could use the freed space on by all of these expiring contracts. Also, next year Jefferson becomes a big ass expiring contract that could be valuable to landing a piece that fits.

You don't mortgage your future for a dumpy dumb ass with attitude problems and limited game. If the Spurs just want to be a good team that makes the playoffs but has zero shot at a title then you do stuff like this. If they want a future shot at contending they need to land greatness in the draft, and the only way to do that is to suck now and use your assets wisely to build up.

Last night Thomas got 36 minutes off the bench, Gibson 17 in an important EC game for the bulls. I guess Del Negro preferred the "headcase". Amazing how fast your argument went up in flames, might be a new record. You should be proud.

[Parker2112]

Standing pat for what? Every team with cap space will be vying for services of the big free agent fish. Are you forgetting the reason the Spurs elected to cast their lot with RJ this past summer is because they didn't realistically believe they could be players in that sweepstakes and they felt they needed help now. Besides, there aren't any FA that will be willing to come to SA. Why would they? The Spurs are a declining team with mediocre talent. While other teams are up and coming, the Spurs are clearly headed the other way.

Again, if you're thinking this team needs to simply reload and they'll be able to continue on their championship run, think again. The Big 3 have gotten older and more injury-prone. There's a lot of miles on those wheels and you're seeing the negative affects occur right before your eyes. No longer can you simply expect to put parts around them. This is an old team with and old core of players.

The failed RJ trade has signaled the end of the championship window. Next year Duncan will be 34, Manu will be gone, and RJ likely traded this summer. The expiring contracts are assets. Assets that can and should be used to begin rebuildig with younger, cheaper, more talented players that can be had now - not this summer.

Standing pat, means missing out on young talent and getting older in the process. The Spurs have to acquire their talent via draft and trades. A trade of this type isn't for this year. It's to help build a new core for the next several years. The sooner they start rebuilding, the sooner they can back into contention.

Sorry, Senor Spur, had to reread your take.

+1.

[Whisky Dog]

Last night Thomas got 36 minutes off the bench, Gibson 17 in an important EC game for the bulls. I guess Del Negro preferred the "headcase". Amazing how fast your argument went up in flames, might be a new record. You should be proud.

Yes, one game he got minutes. The fact he lost his starting spot at all to a rook is damning enough to stay away, and the way he acts is more reason.

I don't usually say this because most people are at least trying to show some intelligence, but you're retarded. And a huge ass.

[scottspurs]

Here is chad ford's opinion if anyone cares. I don't want to give up tiago's rights unless it's for something a lot better.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100211

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com
Archive


Where could Amare Stoudemire land before next week's deadline? Let's fire up the Trade Machine!

The NBA trade deadline is one week away, and we're in the proverbial calm before the storm. While trade discussions continue around the league, most GMs are frustrated. Deal parameters remain vague, with teams still overvaluing their assets and undervaluing the assets of others.

As we've seen in past seasons, one big trade can have a domino effect on others. It tends to narrow the options, focus the discussion and turn up the pressure on teams to make moves.

Given the gridlock, perhaps some fresh ideas will help. In that spirit, here are five hypothetical trades that I think could and should happen. While none of these trades have been specifically discussed, to my knowledge, all of them include teams looking to deal and players on the market.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

1. Heat-Suns-Bobcats

Miami gets: Amare Stoudemire (from Phoenix), Acie Law (from Charlotte), Stephen Graham (from Charlotte), Ronald Murray (from Charlotte)

Phoenix gets: Michael Beasley (from Miami), D.J. Augustin (from Charlotte), James Jones (from Miami), Dorell Wright (from Miami)

Charlotte gets: Udonis Haslem (from Miami), Daequan Cook (from Miami)

Would Miami do it?
The word out of Miami is that the Heat have been pushing to make a deal. While Miami is considered a potential destination for LeBron James and Chris Bosh this summer if the two become free agents, the danger with doing nothing now is that Dwyane Wade might walk if the team fails to get James, Bosh or another top player or two.

This trade would set up the Heat to go in a couple of directions:

(1) It could be a pre-emptive strike on the free-agent market and still provide the salary-cap space to sign another free agent or two in addition to Stoudemire. If Stoudemire were to opt out of his contract and re-sign with the Heat for a contract starting at $13 million to $15 million, the Heat would still be able to sign one max-level player, such as LeBron James, or a couple of players with a starting salary of $8 million to $10 million.

(2) If Stoudemire were to opt out and leave, the Heat, thanks to this trade, would have enough cap room to sign two max-level free agents, such as James and Bosh.

One dangerous scenario is that Stoudemire could decide not to opt out of his contract, leaving the Heat with more limited resources in the 2010 free-agency market. And of course, they'd be giving up on Beasley, a potent scorer who just turned 21.

Would Phoenix do it?
The Suns have been shopping Stoudemire but want more than just cap relief -- they want assets. This deal would provide a little of both.

Beasley is an athletic 4 who should be able to put up similar numbers to Amare in the Suns' run-and-gun system, or perhaps even better numbers, given the rebounding prowess he showed in college. The Suns would also get Augustin, a young point guard they could groom to eventually take over for Nash. Jones should be able to step right back into the system he left in 2007, and if he doesn't work out, his 2010-11 contract is only partially guaranteed. Wright has upside, and his contract is expiring, giving the Suns options with him, as well.

While I believe the Suns would prefer to add Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert, this might be a better, more affordable deal for them in the long run.

Would Charlotte do it? Augustin has had a disappointing season and fallen out of favor with Charlotte coach Larry Brown. And the Bobcats have been active on the trade market, looking for a power forward who can rebound and defend; Haslem would fit the bill and he's in the last year of his contract. While Cook hasn't become the player the Heat hoped he would, he could see some minutes at the 2 for the Bobcats.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

2. Pistons-Jazz-Mavs

Detroit gets: Carlos Boozer (from Utah), Josh Howard (from Dallas), Matt Carroll (from Dallas)

Utah gets: Tayshaun Prince (from Detroit)

Dallas gets: Richard Hamilton (from Detroit), Kwame Brown (from Detroit)

Would Detroit do it?
Yes. The Pistons want to move Prince, but not for expiring contracts -- they want a big man back. The Pistons flirted with the idea of spending their cap space last summer on Boozer, but they started looking in other directions and Boozer decided to stay in Utah. But he would be an ideal addition, assuming he would re-sign with Detroit this summer, now that the team's lack of interior talent has been exposed.

The Dallas part of the equation could happen separately -- to execute a Prince-for-Boozer swap, the Pistons don't need the Mavs. But in any case, moving Hamilton for Howard, who has a nonguaranteed contract for 2010-11, would work well for the Pistons, for whom Hamilton's contract has become an albatross. This trade would give them the opportunity to pursue a free agent this summer. And while they would be reluctant to swallow the three years remaining on Carroll's contract, that's also the length of Hamilton's contract, which they would be shedding.

Would Utah do it?
That's less clear. Jazz GM Kevin O'Connor has rebuffed offers for Boozer that would give the Jazz only cap space, since Boozer himself has an expiring contract. Of course, that means that few teams are willing to give up a lot for Boozer, who could walk away this summer.

The Jazz like Prince, but he has another year on his contract at $11 million, he's been hurt this season and his effectiveness has declined. Still, he's a long, athletic wing who can defend and doesn't need the ball to thrive.

At the moment, the Jazz look like contenders in the West. Will they mess with a good thing? I think it's a 50-50 proposition at this point.

Would Dallas do it?
The Mavs would trade Howard, but they'd prefer to get someone younger than Hamilton in return. They've looked at Kevin Martin, Caron Butler and Andre Iguodala, but so far the Kings, Wizards and 76ers don't want to give up those players for mere cap relief. But Dallas doesn't have its first-round pick this year and owner Mark Cuban has said he's not trading rookie point guard Rodrigue Beaubois -- and the Mavs don't have much else to offer in terms of inexpensive assets. So Hamilton might be the best they can do.

His contract is ugly -- he has $34 million in guaranteed money owed to him over the next three seasons after this one. At the same time, the Mavs would be ridding themselves of the remaining $12 million due Carroll over the next three seasons. Looking at it that way, Dallas would be getting Hamilton for about $7.5 million per year for the next three seasons. While that's not a bargain, he would help them offensively, stepping in as the starting 2-guard and providing another veteran shooter in the backcourt.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

3. Bulls-Spurs

Chicago gets: Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, draft rights to Tiago Splitter

San Antonio gets: John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas

Would Chicago do it?
On the surface, it might seem that the Bulls would get killed in this deal because the Spurs would be getting the two best players in the trade.

But the Bulls have good reason to move Salmons and Thomas, neither of whom is in the team's long-term plans: The Bulls want the cap space such a trade would provide. Chicago can set itself up to be a serious player in free agency this summer, given the appeal of the market and the foundation of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah.

Bonner and Mason, who have expiring contracts, could contribute this season, and Splitter is a good prospect who could come in and help the Bulls in the middle at some point or become a trade asset. As a former first-round draft pick who has established himself in Europe, he might fit the bill if the Bulls are looking to get talent and/or picks in return for Thomas.

And then, if they can pull off trade No. 4 (see below), the Bulls could be in great position going into the summer shopping season. Chicago could be an attractive destination for the likes of James, Wade and Bosh or, at worst, players like Joe Johnson and David Lee.

Would San Antonio do it?
Maybe. The team needs immediate help, as they get older and fall behind the rest of the West. Both Salmons and Thomas would give the Spurs some younger legs, with Salmons also providing offensive punch and Thomas some defense and rebounding.

Thomas' problems in getting along with his coaches have been well-documented, but perhaps he would respond better to a coach like Gregg Popovich and a veteran team led by Tim Duncan. If so, Thomas could become a huge asset to the Spurs over the long haul.

The Spurs rarely make trades like this, but I can't think of a better one for them right now.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

4. Lakers-Bulls

Chicago gets: Jordan Farmar, Adam Morrison, Josh Powell

Los Angeles gets: Kirk Hinrich

Would the Bulls do it?
John Paxson has been reluctant to give away Hinrich even though he's been in a funk since Derrick Rose arrived. But the time to move him is now. The team would be much better off next summer with the extra cap space, and Farmar would be a serviceable back-up for Rose in the meantime.

If Chicago could pull off this trade and the one above, it would be very much in the running for the top free agents this summer, with perhaps only Miami as well-positioned to enter the market.

Would Los Angeles do it?
Derek Fisher is struggling, Farmar hasn't progressed as the Lakers hoped, and Shannon Brown isn't really a point guard. So the Lakers need an upgrade at point guard and they don't have a lot of good options.

Hinrich might not be ideal, given his protracted offensive slump and sizable contract, but he is a smart player who should be a good fit in the triangle, and he can defend. And who else could the Lakers get? Look around the league and you'll see there doesn't appear to be a good trade partner for the Lakers other than Chicago. The other available point guards -- including Luke Ridnour, Chris Duhon, Ramon Sessions and T.J. Ford -- wouldn't fit as well as Hinrich.

The major concern about Hinrich appears to be the additional two years and $17 million on his contract after this season, which is a lot for a tax-paying team to take on. But are the Lakers really that strapped for cash? Even with the largest payroll in the league, they're still turning a profit.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

5. Clippers-76ers

Los Angeles gets: Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert

Philadelphia gets: Marcus Camby, Al Thornton, DeAndre Jordan, Rasual Butler, Mardy Collins, Ricky Davis

Would Los Angeles do it?
The Clippers could just let Camby walk, get under the salary cap, and then attempt to clear more cap space to get a max free agent. Furthermore, as Bill Simmons, J.A. Adande and I have said, the Clippers, on paper, would be a great fit for LeBron James. But that appears to be the furthest thing from LeBron's mind, and the team seems to know it, as general manager Mike Dunleavy continues to talk about making a trade now rather than waiting to see what happens in free agency.

Given that, adding Iguodala and Dalembert might be about as good as it gets for the Clips. Iguodala, in particular, would be a perfect fit as an athletic, multifaceted wing player who can handle the ball or thrive without it while defending at least two positions. Dalembert would be a nice one-year replacement for Camby as an athletic shot-blocker and rebounder to back up Chris Kaman.

The Clippers could become quite a factor in the West in 2010-11, with Iguodala running alongside Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Kaman and presumably a healthy Blake Griffin.

Would Philadelphia do it?
While the 76ers are looking to move their big contracts, they also want assets in return. In this case, they would get both cap relief and talent.

Thornton and Jordan could step in and help, now and down the road, and this trade would also knock an enormous amount of money off the payroll this summer when the contracts of Camby, Butler, Davis and Collins expire.

To make this deal work, the Sixers would have to waive three players from their current roster to accommodate the extra four players that are coming in the trade, but that's not impossible. They have a number of players with small, one-year deals they could waive.


ESPN Insider Chad Ford

[TJastal]

Standing pat for what? Every team with cap space will be vying for services of the big free agent fish. Are you forgetting the reason the Spurs elected to cast their lot with RJ this past summer is because they didn't realistically believe they could be players in that sweepstakes and they felt they needed help now. Besides, there aren't any FA that will be willing to come to SA. Why would they? The Spurs are a declining team with mediocre talent. While other teams are up and coming, the Spurs are clearly headed the other way.

Again, if you're thinking this team needs to simply reload and they'll be able to continue on their championship run, think again. The Big 3 have gotten older and more injury-prone. There's a lot of miles on those wheels and you're seeing the negative affects occur right before your eyes. No longer can you simply expect to put parts around them. This is an old team with and old core of players.

The failed RJ trade has signaled the end of the championship window. Next year Duncan will be 34, Manu will be gone, and RJ likely traded this summer. The expiring contracts are assets. Assets that can and should be used to begin rebuildig with younger, cheaper, more talented players that can be had now - not this summer.

Standing pat, means missing out on young talent and getting older in the process. The Spurs have to acquire their talent via draft and trades. A trade of this type isn't for this year. It's to help build a new core for the next several years. The sooner they start rebuilding, the sooner they can back into contention.

I think alot of Popolagist fans on this site are "Popped". By that term, I mean they've literally taken on the same boring, never take a chance, lameass approach of their beloved coach. So of course they want to stand pat and bury their head in the sand.. it's what Popped would probably do in a situation that required balls.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6793/pcfv01p1002.jpg

[TJastal]

Yes, one game he got minutes. The fact he lost his starting spot at all to a rook is damning enough to stay away, and the way he acts is more reason.

I don't usually say this because most people are at least trying to show some intelligence, but you're retarded. And a huge ass.

:lol

[Whisky Dog]

The Spurs may trade for TT, but it'll be a diaster if they do. He'll suck and continuosly make horrible court decisions and will butt heads with Pop. You think the kid will change his personality and become smarter because an old Tim Duncan is around? People don't just change like that. He'll underachieve and everyone will bitch about it.

[TJastal]

Per Chad Ford. Especially note the bolded sentence.

But the Bulls have good reason to move Salmons and Thomas, neither of whom is in the team's long-term plans: The Bulls want the cap space such a trade would provide. Chicago can set itself up to be a serious player in free agency this summer, given the appeal of the market and the foundation of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah.

[SenorSpur]

Another counterpoint for those wanting the Spurs to "stand pat" and wait for the summer. Players in the NBA talk. Regardless of how or why the RJ acquisition failed, do you really think that bodes well in the Spurs favor?

Pop is a respected coach. The Spurs are certainly a respected organization. However, they're not a glamour organization. Teams will not be tripping over themselves to get to San Antonio.

With so many teams competing for the services of a few players, it's very possible that some teams will be left hanging. See the Detroit Pistons of last year. They eventually spent millions an overpaid for 2 role players (Gordon and Villanueva).

"All dressed up, with a pocket full of money, yet no one to date."

[TJastal]

The Spurs may trade for TT, but it'll be a diaster if they do. He'll suck and continuosly make horrible court decisions and will butt heads with Pop. You think the kid will change his personality and become smarter because an old Tim Duncan is around? People don't just change like that. He'll underachieve and everyone will bitch about it.

So what, the spurs are underachieving as it is. Might as well shake things up and see what happens.

[yavozerb]

Hopefully the spus will not trade for these 2 underachieving players and will only make minor adjustments to the roster. I cannot see the spurs dealing splitter since his arrival would help and be very cheap for a legit center. Thomas would would be half season rental and salmons is not as bad with only 5mil owed with 1 more season left on contract.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs may trade for TT, but it'll be a diaster if they do. He'll suck and continuosly make horrible court decisions and will butt heads with Pop. You think the kid will change his personality and become smarter because an old Tim Duncan is around? People don't just change like that. He'll underachieve and everyone will bitch about it.

Spurs are a veteran team. Pop is a veteran coach. That's their job is to coach young players. That's why you have coaches to teach and mold young players. This team and organization certainly have more respect and recent success than Del Negro and the Bulls. If they can't coach TT into becoming a productive player, they can always get ride of him. He's young enough that he'll be a solid enough asset to warrant something in return.

On the other hand, the Spurs have been in such a "win now" mentality, it will certainly be a difficult transition for them. However, at this point they have little choice. THey must face the realization that the run is over and take different steps to get rebuild and get strong.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs are, if not a coaching change from being a contender, are a coaching philosophy change from being a contender.

[Whisky Dog]

So what, the spurs are underachieving as it is. Might as well shake things up and see what happens.

Shaking things up for the hell of it on a bad deal extends how long they will suck. They have to play this smart andonly take on pieces that look like that will fit the overall game plan. Then they need some good draft position and a bit of luck for a year or two to get back up.

The Spits will never entice a super star to sign here. They have to get those in the draft.

[yavozerb]

Spurs are a veteran team. Pop is a veteran coach. That's their job is to coach young players. That's why you have coaches to teach and mold young players. This team and organization certainly have more respect and recent success than Del Negro and the Bulls. If they can't coach TT into becoming a productive player, they can always get ride of him. He's young enough that he'll be a solid enough asset to warrant something in return.

On the other hand, the Spurs have been in such a "win now" mentality, it will certainly be a difficult transition for them. However, at this point they have little choice. THey must face the realization that the run is over and take different steps to get rebuild and get strong.

There in lies the problem..You pay TT 4.5 mil for the rest of this season and then he becomes a restricted free agent. If he plays well, you can count on someone throwing big $ his way and if he does not play well you are left with either offering him 6+ mil or letting him walk for nothing. If he walks you also lose out on splitter, which some of you are wanting throw in. More bad things can happen with this trade than positive.

[Mr. Body]

I'd do that. Splitter's not gonna mean much.

[scottspurs]

Hopefully the spus will not trade for these 2 underachieving players and will only make minor adjustments to the roster. I cannot see the spurs dealing splitter since his arrival would help and be very cheap for a legit center. Thomas would would be half season rental and salmons is not as bad with only 5mil owed with 1 more season left on contract.

I don't think splitter is going to be very cheap. He could cost the MLE.

[Big P]

Last night Thomas got 36 minutes off the bench, Gibson 17 in an important EC game for the bulls. I guess Del Negro preferred the "headcase". Amazing how fast your argument went up in flames, might be a new record. You should be proud.

Its called showcasing him for a trade.

[yavozerb]

I don't think splitter is going to be very cheap. He could cost the MLE.

Thomas will be a restricted FA next summer, so the cheapest the spurs could resign him for is 6.2 mil. Which is higher than the mle. Splitter can be had for cheaper and is more of an NBA big man than thomas will ever be.

[Big P]

Here is chad ford's opinion if anyone cares. I don't want to give up tiago's rights unless it's for something a lot better.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-100211

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com
Archive


Where could Amare Stoudemire land before next week's deadline? Let's fire up the Trade Machine!

The NBA trade deadline is one week away, and we're in the proverbial calm before the storm. While trade discussions continue around the league, most GMs are frustrated. Deal parameters remain vague, with teams still overvaluing their assets and undervaluing the assets of others.

As we've seen in past seasons, one big trade can have a domino effect on others. It tends to narrow the options, focus the discussion and turn up the pressure on teams to make moves.

Given the gridlock, perhaps some fresh ideas will help. In that spirit, here are five hypothetical trades that I think could and should happen. While none of these trades have been specifically discussed, to my knowledge, all of them include teams looking to deal and players on the market.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

1. Heat-Suns-Bobcats

Miami gets: Amare Stoudemire (from Phoenix), Acie Law (from Charlotte), Stephen Graham (from Charlotte), Ronald Murray (from Charlotte)

Phoenix gets: Michael Beasley (from Miami), D.J. Augustin (from Charlotte), James Jones (from Miami), Dorell Wright (from Miami)

Charlotte gets: Udonis Haslem (from Miami), Daequan Cook (from Miami)

Would Miami do it?
The word out of Miami is that the Heat have been pushing to make a deal. While Miami is considered a potential destination for LeBron James and Chris Bosh this summer if the two become free agents, the danger with doing nothing now is that Dwyane Wade might walk if the team fails to get James, Bosh or another top player or two.

This trade would set up the Heat to go in a couple of directions:

(1) It could be a pre-emptive strike on the free-agent market and still provide the salary-cap space to sign another free agent or two in addition to Stoudemire. If Stoudemire were to opt out of his contract and re-sign with the Heat for a contract starting at $13 million to $15 million, the Heat would still be able to sign one max-level player, such as LeBron James, or a couple of players with a starting salary of $8 million to $10 million.

(2) If Stoudemire were to opt out and leave, the Heat, thanks to this trade, would have enough cap room to sign two max-level free agents, such as James and Bosh.

One dangerous scenario is that Stoudemire could decide not to opt out of his contract, leaving the Heat with more limited resources in the 2010 free-agency market. And of course, they'd be giving up on Beasley, a potent scorer who just turned 21.

Would Phoenix do it?
The Suns have been shopping Stoudemire but want more than just cap relief -- they want assets. This deal would provide a little of both.

Beasley is an athletic 4 who should be able to put up similar numbers to Amare in the Suns' run-and-gun system, or perhaps even better numbers, given the rebounding prowess he showed in college. The Suns would also get Augustin, a young point guard they could groom to eventually take over for Nash. Jones should be able to step right back into the system he left in 2007, and if he doesn't work out, his 2010-11 contract is only partially guaranteed. Wright has upside, and his contract is expiring, giving the Suns options with him, as well.

While I believe the Suns would prefer to add Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert, this might be a better, more affordable deal for them in the long run.

Would Charlotte do it? Augustin has had a disappointing season and fallen out of favor with Charlotte coach Larry Brown. And the Bobcats have been active on the trade market, looking for a power forward who can rebound and defend; Haslem would fit the bill and he's in the last year of his contract. While Cook hasn't become the player the Heat hoped he would, he could see some minutes at the 2 for the Bobcats.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

2. Pistons-Jazz-Mavs

Detroit gets: Carlos Boozer (from Utah), Josh Howard (from Dallas), Matt Carroll (from Dallas)

Utah gets: Tayshaun Prince (from Detroit)

Dallas gets: Richard Hamilton (from Detroit), Kwame Brown (from Detroit)

Would Detroit do it?
Yes. The Pistons want to move Prince, but not for expiring contracts -- they want a big man back. The Pistons flirted with the idea of spending their cap space last summer on Boozer, but they started looking in other directions and Boozer decided to stay in Utah. But he would be an ideal addition, assuming he would re-sign with Detroit this summer, now that the team's lack of interior talent has been exposed.

The Dallas part of the equation could happen separately -- to execute a Prince-for-Boozer swap, the Pistons don't need the Mavs. But in any case, moving Hamilton for Howard, who has a nonguaranteed contract for 2010-11, would work well for the Pistons, for whom Hamilton's contract has become an albatross. This trade would give them the opportunity to pursue a free agent this summer. And while they would be reluctant to swallow the three years remaining on Carroll's contract, that's also the length of Hamilton's contract, which they would be shedding.

Would Utah do it?
That's less clear. Jazz GM Kevin O'Connor has rebuffed offers for Boozer that would give the Jazz only cap space, since Boozer himself has an expiring contract. Of course, that means that few teams are willing to give up a lot for Boozer, who could walk away this summer.

The Jazz like Prince, but he has another year on his contract at $11 million, he's been hurt this season and his effectiveness has declined. Still, he's a long, athletic wing who can defend and doesn't need the ball to thrive.

At the moment, the Jazz look like contenders in the West. Will they mess with a good thing? I think it's a 50-50 proposition at this point.

Would Dallas do it?
The Mavs would trade Howard, but they'd prefer to get someone younger than Hamilton in return. They've looked at Kevin Martin, Caron Butler and Andre Iguodala, but so far the Kings, Wizards and 76ers don't want to give up those players for mere cap relief. But Dallas doesn't have its first-round pick this year and owner Mark Cuban has said he's not trading rookie point guard Rodrigue Beaubois -- and the Mavs don't have much else to offer in terms of inexpensive assets. So Hamilton might be the best they can do.

His contract is ugly -- he has $34 million in guaranteed money owed to him over the next three seasons after this one. At the same time, the Mavs would be ridding themselves of the remaining $12 million due Carroll over the next three seasons. Looking at it that way, Dallas would be getting Hamilton for about $7.5 million per year for the next three seasons. While that's not a bargain, he would help them offensively, stepping in as the starting 2-guard and providing another veteran shooter in the backcourt.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

3. Bulls-Spurs

Chicago gets: Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, draft rights to Tiago Splitter

San Antonio gets: John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas

Would Chicago do it?
On the surface, it might seem that the Bulls would get killed in this deal because the Spurs would be getting the two best players in the trade.

But the Bulls have good reason to move Salmons and Thomas, neither of whom is in the team's long-term plans: The Bulls want the cap space such a trade would provide. Chicago can set itself up to be a serious player in free agency this summer, given the appeal of the market and the foundation of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah.

Bonner and Mason, who have expiring contracts, could contribute this season, and Splitter is a good prospect who could come in and help the Bulls in the middle at some point or become a trade asset. As a former first-round draft pick who has established himself in Europe, he might fit the bill if the Bulls are looking to get talent and/or picks in return for Thomas.

And then, if they can pull off trade No. 4 (see below), the Bulls could be in great position going into the summer shopping season. Chicago could be an attractive destination for the likes of James, Wade and Bosh or, at worst, players like Joe Johnson and David Lee.

Would San Antonio do it?
Maybe. The team needs immediate help, as they get older and fall behind the rest of the West. Both Salmons and Thomas would give the Spurs some younger legs, with Salmons also providing offensive punch and Thomas some defense and rebounding.

Thomas' problems in getting along with his coaches have been well-documented, but perhaps he would respond better to a coach like Gregg Popovich and a veteran team led by Tim Duncan. If so, Thomas could become a huge asset to the Spurs over the long haul.

The Spurs rarely make trades like this, but I can't think of a better one for them right now.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

4. Lakers-Bulls

Chicago gets: Jordan Farmar, Adam Morrison, Josh Powell

Los Angeles gets: Kirk Hinrich

Would the Bulls do it?
John Paxson has been reluctant to give away Hinrich even though he's been in a funk since Derrick Rose arrived. But the time to move him is now. The team would be much better off next summer with the extra cap space, and Farmar would be a serviceable back-up for Rose in the meantime.

If Chicago could pull off this trade and the one above, it would be very much in the running for the top free agents this summer, with perhaps only Miami as well-positioned to enter the market.

Would Los Angeles do it?
Derek Fisher is struggling, Farmar hasn't progressed as the Lakers hoped, and Shannon Brown isn't really a point guard. So the Lakers need an upgrade at point guard and they don't have a lot of good options.

Hinrich might not be ideal, given his protracted offensive slump and sizable contract, but he is a smart player who should be a good fit in the triangle, and he can defend. And who else could the Lakers get? Look around the league and you'll see there doesn't appear to be a good trade partner for the Lakers other than Chicago. The other available point guards -- including Luke Ridnour, Chris Duhon, Ramon Sessions and T.J. Ford -- wouldn't fit as well as Hinrich.

The major concern about Hinrich appears to be the additional two years and $17 million on his contract after this season, which is a lot for a tax-paying team to take on. But are the Lakers really that strapped for cash? Even with the largest payroll in the league, they're still turning a profit.

TRADE MACHINE
ESPN.com's Trade Machine breaks down the proposed deal here.

5. Clippers-76ers

Los Angeles gets: Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert

Philadelphia gets: Marcus Camby, Al Thornton, DeAndre Jordan, Rasual Butler, Mardy Collins, Ricky Davis

Would Los Angeles do it?
The Clippers could just let Camby walk, get under the salary cap, and then attempt to clear more cap space to get a max free agent. Furthermore, as Bill Simmons, J.A. Adande and I have said, the Clippers, on paper, would be a great fit for LeBron James. But that appears to be the furthest thing from LeBron's mind, and the team seems to know it, as general manager Mike Dunleavy continues to talk about making a trade now rather than waiting to see what happens in free agency.

Given that, adding Iguodala and Dalembert might be about as good as it gets for the Clips. Iguodala, in particular, would be a perfect fit as an athletic, multifaceted wing player who can handle the ball or thrive without it while defending at least two positions. Dalembert would be a nice one-year replacement for Camby as an athletic shot-blocker and rebounder to back up Chris Kaman.

The Clippers could become quite a factor in the West in 2010-11, with Iguodala running alongside Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Kaman and presumably a healthy Blake Griffin.

Would Philadelphia do it?
While the 76ers are looking to move their big contracts, they also want assets in return. In this case, they would get both cap relief and talent.

Thornton and Jordan could step in and help, now and down the road, and this trade would also knock an enormous amount of money off the payroll this summer when the contracts of Camby, Butler, Davis and Collins expire.

To make this deal work, the Sixers would have to waive three players from their current roster to accommodate the extra four players that are coming in the trade, but that's not impossible. They have a number of players with small, one-year deals they could waive.


ESPN Insider Chad Ford


Ya...not gonna give up the rights to Splitter for a 1/2 season rental....chicago gets expirings...thats good enough

[yavozerb]

Its called showcasing him for a trade.

exactly..

[SenorSpur]

There in lies the problem..You pay TT 4.5 mil for the rest of this season and then he becomes a restricted free agent. If he plays well, you can count on someone throwing big $ his way and if he does not play well you are left with either offering him 6+ mil or letting him walk for nothing.

You just outlined the beauty of the acquisition. If TT works out, minds his manners and plays well, then the Spurs have a solid, young player that they can re-up for the future. If not, they can elect to trade him away because he's still their RFA. Because this cat can rebound, block shots and play defense, it's worth the gamble based on just that.

The bottom line when assessing whether or not to make any trade is whether the targeted player can actually improve the team. If that answer, is yes, then you look at salary. If you can match that salary in trade assets, it's worth doing.

[TJastal]

I don't think splitter is going to be very cheap. He could cost the MLE.

shhh...... he thinks Splitter's coming for the veteran minimum.. don't spoil his little fantasy

[yavozerb]

I dont mind trading for TT, but there is no way I give up a young talented center like splitter in the deal.

[SenorSpur]

I dont mind trading for TT, but there is no way I give up a young talented center like splitter in the deal.

I'd rather not give up Splitter, Ian or a 1st round pick. However, in order to meet the demand of other offers, the Spurs will likely have to part with one or the other.

If the Spurs do indeed have to part with Splitter's rights, I still say the Spurs were big fools in declining the option on Ian.

[apalisoc_9]

LOL at whisky dog saying the spurs should play "things smart? by doing what he thinks is smart..

I have been following the bulls ever since 05, they're my team in the east. Thomas has personality issues, but believe me this guy is coachable. he is the type of player that can defend big men, and at the same time guard fast SF-SG players. He is very vesatile in the defensive end and has proven that whilst playing the the NBA...SPlitter, is a good prospect and have seen him play with his European team, he has skill alright but is to soft and not NBA tested..

I'd go with the trade.

[dbestpro]

There is no proof that players won't sign with the Spurs anymore than any other team. When you trade your expiring contracts you are trading your ability to go after a guy like Bosh to Chicago so they can go after Wade. RJs contract will provide the trade flexibility to get another star from a team who is bleeding cash. Duncan with a guy like Bosh will extend his shelf life and the contender window does not have to close within 1-2 years.

You all act like the young Bull racing after one cow. ..........Well, you know the rest.

[objective]

Tyrus Thomas only played that many minutes last night because it was a gigantic blowout and the Bulls were down 24 at the end of the 1st. By the end of the 3rd they were down 27.

And I can appreciate using the playoffs last year as proof of TT's talent, but come on, don't refer to them like they were the powerful Celtics, TT spent his time matching up against Big Baby and Mikki Moore. And for stat lovers, anyone checking those boxes would want to trade for Big Baby, not Tyrus Thomas.

[SenorSpur]

LOL at whisky dog saying the spurs should play "things smart? by doing what he thinks is smart..

I have been following the bulls ever since 05, they're my team in the east. Thomas has personality issues, but believe me this guy is coachable. he is the type of player that can defend big men, and at the same time guard fast SF-SG players. He is very vesatile in the defensive end and has proven that whilst playing the the NBA...SPlitter, is a good prospect and have seen him play with his European team, he has skill alright but is to soft and not NBA tested..

I'd go with the trade.

Thatks for posting.

The Spurs often seem enamored with the safe, conservative, gravity-challenged player, over the risky, young, athletic player with tons of upside. For once, I hope they get this one right.

[TJastal]

LOL at whisky dog saying the spurs should play "things smart? by doing what he thinks is smart..

I have been following the bulls ever since 05, they're my team in the east. Thomas has personality issues, but believe me this guy is coachable. he is the type of player that can defend big men, and at the same time guard fast SF-SG players. He is very vesatile in the defensive end and has proven that whilst playing the the NBA...SPlitter, is a good prospect and have seen him play with his European team, he has skill alright but is to soft and not NBA tested..

I'd go with the trade.

Just being able to get rid of Bonner and Finley once and for all would be worth doing the trade.

:lol

[yavozerb]

Thatks for posting.

The Spurs often seem enamored with the safe, conservative, gravity-challenged player, over the risky, young, athletic player with tons of upside. For once, I hope they get this one right.

Your right..The spurs need to follow the same model as the bulls, atlanta, denver,etc. and get grand total of 0 championships. :lol

[Baseline]

Thatks for posting.

The Spurs often seem enamored with the safe, conservative, gravity-challenged player, over the risky, young, athletic player with tons of upside. For once, I hope they get this one right.

Exactly. And that's obviously a Popovich thing. It took him forever to get over Manu's playing style, but eventually he had to.

Let's hope Pop can get over his own ego and bring in a young talent who can actually help us.

[TJastal]

Your right..The spurs need to follow the same model as the bulls, atlanta, denver,etc. and get grand total of 0 championships. :lol

[yavozerb]

I should have said post MJ bulls..

[dbestpro]

A league source confirmed to The Columbian on Thursday that the Portland Trail Blazers are highly interested in Chicago Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas.

The source said the Blazers' are intrigued by Thomas' youth and his shot-blocking abilities. In addition, Thomas would fit in well with Portland's timeline and current roster needs.

Yahoo! Sports originally reported that the Blazers offered either Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw — both of whom have expiring contracts — and two future second-round draft picks for Thomas. The Bulls reportedly declined the deal, though, because they want more value in return.

[TJastal]

I should have said post MJ bulls..

Uh, right. Cuz they won all those championships back in the 90's with such vertically challenged players.

:rolleyes

[Pentagruel]

Thatks for posting.

The Spurs often seem enamored with the safe, conservative, gravity-challenged player, over the risky, young, athletic player with tons of upside. For once, I hope they get this one right.


Perhaps playing it safe has garnered the Spurs 4 championships in the past... This is in fact the first year where they have not played it safe, and behold the results.

There are no trades realistically available that can turn the Spurs into a real contender this year and likely not next year. The Spurs need to be careful about adding more payroll which might hinder their future and they certainly should not trade away draft picks and young prospects.

Specifically in regards to Ty Thomas, I simply don't think he's the kind of young player you want to include in a rebuilding project. He's dumb as a bag of rocks and stubborn to boot. He doesn't want to listen to coaches to improve his game, and to improve his team, he doesn't seem to want to change to really help his team win. He thinks he knows best and I don't see that changing if he were to join the Spurs. That's why I don't want him on the Spurs and why I think such a trade would fail; add to this the giving up of a young player like Splitter whom I think is a better player to have on the team and taking on future payroll in Salmons makes this a bad trade potentially disasterous.

[yavozerb]

A league source confirmed to The Columbian on Thursday that the Portland Trail Blazers are highly interested in Chicago Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas.

The source said the Blazers' are intrigued by Thomas' youth and his shot-blocking abilities. In addition, Thomas would fit in well with Portland's timeline and current roster needs.

Yahoo! Sports originally reported that the Blazers offered either Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw — both of whom have expiring contracts — and two future second-round draft picks for Thomas. The Bulls reportedly declined the deal, though, because they want more value in return.

If the bulls declined that offer, why the hell would they accept the spurs offer. Hopefully this is true and the spurs will not have a chance for this trade to happen.:downspin:

[scottspurs]

Your right..The spurs need to follow the same model as the bulls, atlanta, denver,etc. and get grand total of 0 championships. :lol

The bulls never won a championship? How old are you?

[scottspurs]

I should have said post MJ bulls..

Still the bulls

[dbestpro]

If the bulls declined that offer, why the hell would they accept the spurs offer. Hopefully this is true and the spurs will not have a chance for this trade to happen.:downspin:

Looks like it would take expiring contracts with a number 1 pick, although you could argue the 2 number 2s are more valuable than a late number 1. If the Spurs are serious it probably would require Splitter rights.

[yavozerb]

Looks like it would take expiring contracts with a number 1 pick, although you could argue the 2 number 2s are more valuable than a late number 1. If the Spurs are serious it probably would require Splitter rights.

Not going to happen..No way they would have let Ian's contract expire without getting some kind of confirmation from Tiago 1st. I think we can close this thread now!!

[scottspurs]

Not going to happen..No way they would have let Ian's contract expire without getting some kind of confirmation from Tiago 1st. I think we can close this thread now!!

I don't know if this is it, but if the right trade comes along I could see the spurs trading splitter.

He is not untouchable by any means.

[SenorSpur]

A league source confirmed to The Columbian on Thursday that the Portland Trail Blazers are highly interested in Chicago Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas.

The source said the Blazers' are intrigued by Thomas' youth and his shot-blocking abilities. In addition, Thomas would fit in well with Portland's timeline and current roster needs.

Yahoo! Sports originally reported that the Blazers offered either Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw — both of whom have expiring contracts — and two future second-round draft picks for Thomas. The Bulls reportedly declined the deal, though, because they want more value in return.

The Blazers, with their infinite talent pool, and playoff-ready roster and STILL trying to improve and get better.

Meanwhile there are those who feel the Spurs, with their inferior roster of declining age, should stand pat. Take a boatload of cash into the summer and hope they'll be attract a limited number of free agents. Good luck with that strategy.

[scottspurs]

The Blazers, with their infinite talent pool, and playoff-ready roster and STILL trying to improve and get better.

Meanwhile there are those who feel the Spurs, with their inferior roster of declining age, should stand pat. Take a boatload of cash into the summer and hope they'll be attract a limited number of free agents. Good luck with that strategy.

The only way the strategy of standing pat would really work out is if the spurs could somehow convince Jefferson that he is not in the teams plans and he was to opt out.

As of right now though the only promising thing about this offseason is the hope that Splitter comes over.

[dbestpro]

The Blazers, with their infinite talent pool, and playoff-ready roster and STILL trying to improve and get better.

Meanwhile there are those who feel the Spurs, with their inferior roster of declining age, should stand pat. Take a boatload of cash into the summer and hope they'll be attract a limited number of free agents. Good luck with that strategy.

.......... Yeah Portland has really been tearing it up at the championship level. Oh, wait a minute..............

[crc21209]

Man if the Spurs could land a combo of Salmons/Thomas for Bonner, Finley, Mason, etc. that would be great, the only thing is....there are tons of other teams out there who may have just a little more to offer...

[ace3g]

Blazers are interested in Bulls' Thomas, source says



By Brian T. Smith
Columbian Staff Writer

Thursday, February 11, 2010

A league source confirmed to The Columbian on Thursday that the Portland Trail Blazers are highly interested in Chicago Bulls forward Tyrus Thomas.

The source said the Blazers' are intrigued by Thomas' youth and his shot-blocking abilities. In addition, Thomas would fit in well with Portland's timeline and current roster needs.

Yahoo! Sports originally reported that the Blazers offered either Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw — both of whom have expiring contracts — and two future second-round draft picks for Thomas. The Bulls reportedly declined the deal, though, because they want more value in return.

Thomas, a fourth-year forward out of Louisiana State, is averaging 8.8 points, 6.3 rebounds, 1.6 blocks and 1.1 assists for Chicago this season. He has only played in 27 games, though, due to an absence caused by a fractured radius in his left forearm.

Thomas' best season came in 2008-09, when he averaged 10.8 points, 6.4 rebounds and 1.9 blocks. He is averaging 7.8 points and 5.1 boards during his career.

The 6-foot-10, 225-pound Thomas is set to make $4.7 million this season. He will then become a restricted free agent. The Bulls hold a $6.2 million qualifying offer on Thomas in 2010-11.

The Blazers have long been interested in Thomas. Portland originally selected him with the fourth overall pick in the 2006 NBA Draft. But Thomas' draft rights were traded by the Blazers to the Bulls in exchange for the rights to LaMarcus Aldridge and Viktor Khryapa.

Should the Blazers acquire Thomas, he would likely provide Portland with the inside depth and toughness it has lacked since centers Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla were lost for the season due to knee injuries.

The Blazers (31-24) sit in eighth place in the Western Conference standings heading into the NBA All-Star break. Portland is ranked fourth out of five teams in the Northwest Division, five games behind first-place Denver.

The Blazers will have 25 games remaining after the break to make a playoff push. The team's chances should be bolstered by the expected return of injured All-Star guard Brandon Roy and Travis Outlaw.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2010/feb/11/blazers-are-interested-bulls-thomas-source-says/

[pad300]

People on this thread keep on saying there are no big trades available. Just look at what else Stein was suggesting.

5. Clippers-76ers

Los Angeles gets: Andre Iguodala, Samuel Dalembert

Philadelphia gets: Marcus Camby, Al Thornton, DeAndre Jordan, Rasual Butler, Mardy Collins, Ricky Davis

...

Would Philadelphia do it?
While the 76ers are looking to move their big contracts, they also want assets in return. In this case, they would get both cap relief and talent.

Thornton and Jordan could step in and help, now and down the road, and this trade would also knock an enormous amount of money off the payroll this summer when the contracts of Camby, Butler, Davis and Collins expire.

To make this deal work, the Sixers would have to waive three players from their current roster to accommodate the extra four players that are coming in the trade, but that's not impossible. They have a number of players with small, one-year deals they could waive.


Could SAS highjack that? I'd sure as hell try.
Jefferson, Mahinmi, Bonner, Mason, Finley + 2010 1st & Maybe Splitter?
For
Iguolda , Dalembert, Carney?

PHI gets $10M worth of cap relief this year, and another $14 Million next year. They get Mahinmi, who's at least as good a prospect as Jordan, and a 2010 1st (note, Thornton is pretty damn close to being a bust. PER 11.9. Bad defensively. They wouldn't e trading him if they thought he would work out). They cut two less players, and get better players back. Maybe we have to send Splitter, maybe we don't. Either way, Iguolda >>> Jefferson, Dalembert gives us a center besides TD. And Carney + Haiston eat the spot minutes from Finley and Mason.

[benefactor]

The Spurs can easily outdo the Blazers offer if they agree to take Salmons.

[MaNu4Tres]

The Spurs can easily outdo the Blazers offer if they agree to take Salmons.

That sure would. If a trade goes down it will happen at the deadline. Bulls are just doing their due diligence and milking every ounce of value they can get til the last minute.

[stretch]

Why because I'm a jackass? :lol Nice try.

lol butthurt jackass

[mountainballer]

Teams began to frequently call the Bulls about Tyrus Thomas' availability following his blow-up with Vinny Del Negro.

Chicago is determined to deal Thomas and are looking for expiring contracts and a 2010 or future first-round draft pick, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Bulls are also exploring ways to package Thomas with Kirk Hinrich.

Charlotte has offered Acie Law, Flip Murray and their 2010 first-round pick, a league executive said.

Portland has offered Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw, who are both expirings, along with two second round picks.

The New York Knicks, Sacramento Kings, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets and New Orleans Hornets are among the multiple teams who’ve spoken to Chicago about Thomas.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64610/20100211/more_calls_coming_for_tyrus_thomas/


that's about "get TT but don't offer a pick".
wake up guys. he will cost us our 2010 1st rounder at least. and as I said before, if he isn't worth this pick, forget the whole trade, because than the trade isn't worth to be even considered, considering our situation

[benefactor]

I still think the Spurs could get around giving up a first rounder if they agree to take Salmons. I would think that Chicago covets the cap space more than they want the pick.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would definitely be willing to give up a 1st..any player we draft will be a project anyways, I'd rather take the guy that was a high lottery pick at one point..

[TJastal]

that's about "get TT but don't offer a pick".
wake up guys. he will cost us our 2010 1st rounder at least. and as I said before, if he isn't worth this pick, forget the whole trade, because than the trade isn't worth to be even considered, considering our situation

That's why you offer em Splitter's rights instead. If they're as stupid as some of the fans on this board they will bite on it.

Then when Splitter re-nigs on his supposed "promise" to come play in the NBA and instead plays out his full contract with TAU the spurs will still have two prospects (Salmons and Thomas)

[Crazymaddopeyo]

I would definitely be willing to give up a 1st..any player we draft will be a project anyways, I'd rather take the guy that was a high lottery pick at one point..

I agree, this guy already has some experience under his belt, might as well get him instead of someone who going to take even longer to get it down.

[Blackjack]

I hate giving away first-rounders, absolutely hate it, but if the Spurs believe Splitter to be coming over and they can get a look at Thomas. . . those two combined with Hill, Blair and Hairston, would be plenty of developmental talent for next year.

Now, I don't think the first-rounder is a forgone conclusion if the Spurs take on Salmons and his salary. But if it is, it could very well be a future lottery-protected pick, as they might just assume not having to pay a first-rounder next year.

I really don't get the opposition to Thomas-Salmons, given the current state and trajectory this team's on, and the belief that it'd be better to stand pat; especially if all it will take is expirings that aren't the answer to what ails this team (short or long-term) and whose value only last as long as their expirings. I could understand the first-rounder giving some pause, but, again, it's not a forgone conclusion it's a necessity. (all these stories are straight deals for Thomas)

And even if Splitter's not believed to be coming over. . . I could probably pull the trigger on a future, protected, first-rounder (next year's pick wouldn't be on the table for me).

But we'll cross that bridge if it comes to it; if the the Spurs do the trade for Randolph, they can have the first-rounder (no questions asked).

[ss1986v2]

i hate giving away first-rounders, absolutely hate it, but if the spurs believe splitter to be coming over and they can get a look at thomas. . . Those two combined with hill, blair and hairston, would be plenty of developmental talent for next year.

Now, i don't think the first-rounder is a forgone conclusion if the spurs take on salmons and his salary. But if it is, it could very well be a future lottery-protected pick, as they might just assume not having to pay a first-rounder next year.

I really don't get the opposition to thomas-salmons, given the current state and trajectory this team's on, and the belief that it'd be better to stand pat; especially if all it will take is expirings that aren't the answer to what ails this team (short or long-term) and whose value only last as long as their expirings. I could understand the first-rounder giving some pause, but, again, it's not a forgone conclusion it's a necessity. (all these stories are straight deals for thomas)

and even if splitter's not believed to be coming over. . . I could probably pull the trigger on a future, protected, first-rounder (next year's pick wouldn't be on the table for me).

But we'll cross that bridge if it comes to it; if the the spurs do the trade for randolph, they can have the first-rounder (no questions asked).

+1

[TD 21]

I would definitely be willing to give up a 1st..any player we draft will be a project anyways, I'd rather take the guy that was a high lottery pick at one point..

Thomas is still a young and raw enough player, that he basically is an incoming lottery pick (only he's ready to play now), so giving up a pick that will probably fall around twenty and will likely be, as you say, a project, is a no-brainer. Really, there's nothing of real consequence or significance that the Spurs would have to give up in this trade.

Salmons makes (roughly) $5.4 million this season and $5.8 million next season, when his contract expires. That's reasonable. The problem is, his PER this season is in the 12 range, with Jefferson, to give you an indication of just how poorly he's played. Thomas' is in the 16 range. For comparisons sake, Blair is in the 17 range and McDyess in the 13 range. PER is obviously not bullet proof and it can't measure intangibles, IQ, etc., but this is a fairly good indication of how productive Thomas has been this season.

Salmons would be good insurance if Ginobili were to leave in the off season and even if he didn't, his salary simply takes Mason and Finley's space; which is a no brainer. The Spurs could have a three man win rotation, with Jefferson and occasionally rotate in Hill, with Bogans and Hairston providing the depth. Ideally, maybe the Spurs wanted to go even cheaper with Mason and Finley's spots, but Salmons doesn't make that much and it's only for a year. With as much uncertainty going forward as there is on the wings and as little production as the Spurs have gotten out of them this season, this trade is more than worthwhile.

The other thing I like about this trade, if it were to come to fruition, is it tightens up the rotation and provides clear role definition.

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Jefferson, C- McDyess, SG- Salmons, PG- Parker

Bench (rotation): SG- Ginobili, PF- Blair, PG/SG- Hill, PF- Thomas

Bench (out of rotation): SG- Bogans, C- Ratliff, SG/SF- Hairston

Inactive: C/PF- Mahinmi

[TJastal]

Thomas is still a young and raw enough player, that he basically is an incoming lottery pick (only he's ready to play now), so giving up a pick that will probably fall around twenty and will likely be, as you say, a project, is a no-brainer. Really, there's nothing of real consequence or significance that the Spurs would have to give up in this trade.

Salmons makes (roughly) $5.4 million this season and $5.8 million next season, when his contract expires. That's reasonable. The problem is, his PER this season is in the 12 range, with Jefferson, to give you an indication of just how poorly he's played. Thomas' is in the 16 range. For comparisons sake, Blair is in the 17 range and McDyess in the 13 range. PER is obviously not bullet proof and it can't measure intangibles, IQ, etc., but this is a fairly good indication of how productive Thomas has been this season.

Salmons would be good insurance if Ginobili were to leave in the off season and even if he didn't, his salary simply takes Mason and Finley's space; which is a no brainer. The Spurs could have a three man win rotation, with Jefferson and occasionally rotate in Hill, with Bogans and Hairston providing the depth. Ideally, maybe the Spurs wanted to go even cheaper with Mason and Finley's spots, but Salmons doesn't make that much and it's only for a year. With as much uncertainty going forward as there is on the wings and as little production as the Spurs have gotten out of them this season, this trade is more than worthwhile.

The other thing I like about this trade, if it were to come to fruition, is it tightens up the rotation and provides clear role definition.

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Jefferson, C- McDyess, SG- Salmons, PG- Parker

Bench (rotation): SG- Ginobili, PF- Blair, PG/SG- Hill, PF- Thomas

Bench (out of rotation): SG- Bogans, C- Ratliff, SG/SF- Hairston

Inactive: C/PF- Mahinmi

Couldn't have said it better. I'll just add that the hidden caveat to all this is Tyrus Thomas gives Popovich a real small ball PF option instead of Finley and Jefferson. Cuz it seems pretty much a given that small ball is here to stay.

And if Thomas for whatever reason can't handle being coached (which seems unlikely given he'll have all of Duncan, McDyess, and Ratliff whispering in his ear) the spurs can either let him walk at the end of his contract or trade him for a piece the team needs. If there are this many suitors interested now there is sure to be a few down the road.

[bdictjames]

Another low IQ player on our team.. heck no.

Unless Jefferson goes, the Spurs shouldn't do this.

[TD 21]

Couldn't have said it better. I'll just add that the hidden caveat to all this is Tyrus Thomas gives Popovich a real small ball PF option instead of Finley and Jefferson. Cuz it seems pretty much a given that small ball is here to stay.

And if Thomas for whatever reason can't handle being coached (which seems unlikely given he'll have all of Duncan, McDyess, and Ratliff whispering in his ear) the spurs can either let him walk at the end of his contract or trade him for a piece the team needs. If there are this many suitors interested now there is sure to be a few down the road.

Exactly. If Thomas doesn't work out with the Spurs in a year, then he'll probably have significant resale value at the '11 trade deadline, for two reasons: 1) He's too tantalizing an athlete/raw talent for teams to pass up, 2) Unlike this season, when teams will have a (roughly) $6.2 million dollar qualifying offer to make to him (or not, but that would defeat the purpose of acquiring him in the first place), next season there is no financial commitment for the following season.

The one semi-concern here is the Spurs would be trading arguably their three best three-point shooters. In reality, Salmons is a comparable shooter to two of them, the Spurs aren't getting great shooting out of any of them currently and not one of them is entrenched in the rotation currently.

Talent, defensively and length-wise, the Spurs get significantly better.

[The Truth #6]

If we get Salmons then it's even less likely Manu wil be here next year. And if that's the case, then if you're getting Salmons then you're also most likely going to be throwing Manu into the trade market, unless you think Salmons and TT are going to deliver us a title, which I think is crazy but some people think that. So then we get these guys and see what happens and then Manu walks without any compensation in the offseason. Not a great option in my opinion.

A thought about all of our expiring contracts - yes, these players are all basically mediocre, but in packaging so many of them we will be giving away a lot of the "corporate knowledge" needed to get through Pop's labrynthine system. So by getting rid of the majority of our bench who know the system, this trade then becomes a much bigger trade in the sense of how long it will take for the new players to acclimate, assuming they ever do. It's a chance that they won't ever fit in here with Pop.

Am I saying that Pop is ill suited for this transition? Yeah, pretty much. Unless there's a miracle and Manu regains his old form, Parker finds his focus, Tim moves laterally a lot quicker, and Jefferson starts to actually play then our window is closed. And I can't see Pop having the temperament, patience, or ability to work in a scenario where he actually has to coach young talent instead of having Larry Brown's son-in-law deal with them on the Toros.

[TJastal]

Another low IQ player on our team.. heck no.

Unless Jefferson goes, the Spurs shouldn't do this.

If the spurs started recruiting from Mensa would that be better?

Actually.. I think your onto something here.

I could defenitely see this starting a trend among the nba and pretty soon we'd be watching former math wizzes turned nba basketball players calculating passing angles and banking shots from 30+ feet with 100% accuracy.

Instead of judging athletic prowess at the combine they would instead run IQ tests instead and teams would invite athletes to take part in Jeapordy trials.

Ok maybe I'm exaggerating here.. but the point is valid.

[TJastal]

If the spurs started recruiting from Mensa would that be better?

Actually.. I think your onto something here.

I could defenitely see this starting a trend among the nba and pretty soon we'd be watching former math wizzes turned nba basketball players calculating passing angles and banking shots from 30+ feet with 100% accuracy.

Instead of judging athletic prowess at the combine they would run IQ tests instead and teams would invite athletes to take part in Jeapordy trials.

Ok maybe I'm exaggerating here.. but the point is valid.

[TD 21]

If we get Salmons then it's even less likely Manu wil be here next year. And if that's the case, then if you're getting Salmons then you're also most likely going to be throwing Manu into the trade market, unless you think Salmons and TT are going to deliver us a title, which I think is crazy but some people think that. So then we get these guys and see what happens and then Manu walks without any compensation in the offseason. Not a great option in my opinion.

A thought about all of our expiring contracts - yes, these players are all basically mediocre, but in packaging so many of them we will be giving away a lot of the "corporate knowledge" needed to get through Pop's labrynthine system. So by getting rid of the majority of our bench who know the system, this trade then becomes a much bigger trade in the sense of how long it will take for the new players to acclimate, assuming they ever do. It's a chance that they won't ever fit in here with Pop.

Am I saying that Pop is ill suited for this transition? Yeah, pretty much. Unless there's a miracle and Manu regains his old form, Parker finds his focus, Tim moves laterally a lot quicker, and Jefferson starts to actually play then our window is closed. And I can't see Pop having the temperament, patience, or ability to work in a scenario where he actually has to coach young talent instead of having Larry Brown's son-in-law deal with them on the Toros.

I don't get this mentality at this point. Is this team in a position to not take a risk? Not if they have aspiration of winning another championship in the Duncan-era, they're not. The Spurs, talent-wise and defensively, should instantly improve from this trade. Do they lose some "corporate knowledge"? Yeah, but Bonner/Finley are both seeing limited minutes currently and there's a good chance at least Finley is gone after this season anyway.

The potential reward here far outweighs the risk. Can this even be considered a risk when this team as presently constituted clearly isn't going anywhere and they're getting the two best talents in the trade? At worst, this trade doesn't make the Spurs contenders again either this year or next. But guess what? They're already not contenders; at least this trade gives them a chance to be contenders again.

As for Ginobili, he almost sounds ready to move on. If he wants to stay, then hopefully Pop/Buford can talk Holt into paying to re-sign Ginobili and signing Splitter, by telling him that they'll just let Jefferson's contract expire and he can pocket the savings. It's easy for me to say because it's not my money, but it's only for a year he'd have to pay for this bloated payroll and it's not that much money, relative to NBA terms, that the Spurs are adding. If Holt wants to win one for the thumb for Duncan, this is probably the Spurs best (realistic) chance left.

[dbestpro]

Chicago will not want a mid 20 first round draft pick in 2010. (maybe 2011 or later). They are trying to free up money and would not want to pay the guaranteed money of a late first rounder.

[Pentagruel]

I don't get this mentality at this point. Is this team in a position to not take a risk? Not if they have aspiration of winning another championship in the Duncan-era, they're not. The Spurs, talent-wise and defensively, should instantly improve from this trade. Do they lose some "corporate knowledge"? Yeah, but Bonner/Finley are both seeing limited minutes currently and there's a good chance at least Finley is gone after this season anyway.

The potential reward here far outweighs the risk. Can this even be considered a risk when this team as presently constituted clearly isn't going anywhere and they're getting the two best talents in the trade? At worst, this trade doesn't make the Spurs contenders again either this year or next. But guess what? They're already not contenders; at least this trade gives them a chance to be contenders again.

As for Ginobili, he almost sounds ready to move on. If he wants to stay, then hopefully Pop/Buford can talk Holt into paying to re-sign Ginobili and signing Splitter, by telling him that they'll just let Jefferson's contract expire and he can pocket the savings. It's easy for me to say because it's not my money, but it's only for a year he'd have to pay for this bloated payroll and it's not that much money, relative to NBA terms, that the Spurs are adding. If Holt wants to win one for the thumb for Duncan, this is probably the Spurs best (realistic) chance left.

Doing this trade does not amount to taking a risk. Do you honestly believe that Salmons and Ty Thomas are the missing pieces to vault the Spurs into championship contention? I think that sentiment is just foolhardy. Why add more money on the books (salmons) past this season for something that will net you less then a championship. Its not that this trade wouldn't make us any better, it would, it just won't make us good enough to realistically compete for a ship'.

Id much rather keep our draft picks (including Splitter) to help rebuild the team in the future. The only trades I would be willing to make is one that would truly and instantly put us in a position to win the championship or one that brings us a great young talent (not TT; I simply don't think he will ever reach his supposed potential) for the future. Such a trade is not available at this time.

[ajballer4]

I heard they were trying to package Hinrich with Ty Thomas, anyone else hear this?

[Blackjack]

lol at them losing "corporate knowledge"; Bonner and Finley aren't good enough to utilize it and Mason's never had it.

I appreciate when someone like TD 21 does the heavy lifting or, at the very least, prevents me from re-stating what I've done ad nauseum, so I'll just give a big ol' :tu.

But as for Manu, for the first time, and I've dismissed this whenever the suggestion was made prior, my gut's telling me he's gone. The combination of his declining athleticism, his continued talk of the contract situation and the current state of the team, it just doesn't leave a circumstance that leaves me brimming with optimism (the thought of him being traded at the deadline doesn't even sound all that crazy anymore).

It would hurt like hell to see him go, but. . . sadly, I've almost conditioned myself to expect it. . .

[SenorSpur]

.......... Yeah Portland has really been tearing it up at the championship level. Oh, wait a minute..............

Yeah, and I'd be totally happy keeping the geriatric roster that the Spurs have now. They could probably win four more titles with that roster. :rolleyes

[dbestpro]

Yeah, and I'd be totally happy keeping the geriatric roster that the Spurs have now. They could probably win four more titles with that roster. :rolleyes

I don't see either getting to the promise land.

[SenorSpur]

i hate giving away first-rounders, absolutely hate it, but if the spurs believe splitter to be coming over and they can get a look at thomas. . . Those two combined with hill, blair and hairston, would be plenty of developmental talent for next year.

Now, i don't think the first-rounder is a forgone conclusion if the spurs take on salmons and his salary. But if it is, it could very well be a future lottery-protected pick, as they might just assume not having to pay a first-rounder next year.

I really don't get the opposition to thomas-salmons, given the current state and trajectory this team's on, and the belief that it'd be better to stand pat; especially if all it will take is expirings that aren't the answer to what ails this team (short or long-term) and whose value only last as long as their expirings. I could understand the first-rounder giving some pause, but, again, it's not a forgone conclusion it's a necessity. (all these stories are straight deals for thomas)

and even if splitter's not believed to be coming over. . . I could probably pull the trigger on a future, protected, first-rounder (next year's pick wouldn't be on the table for me).

But we'll cross that bridge if it comes to it; if the the spurs do the trade for randolph, they can have the first-rounder (no questions asked).

+2

[The Truth #6]

lol at them losing "corporate knowledge"; Bonner and Finley aren't good enough to utilize it and Mason's never had it.

I appreciate when someone like TD 21 does the heavy lifting or, at the very least, prevents me from re-stating what I've done ad nauseum, so I'll just give a big ol' :tu.

But as for Manu, for the first time, and I've dismissed this whenever the suggestion was made prior, my gut's telling me he's gone. The combination of his declining athleticism, his continued talk of the contract situation and the current state of the team, it just doesn't leave a circumstance that leaves me brimming with optimism (the thought of him being traded at the deadline doesn't even sound all that crazy anymore).

It would hurt like hell to see him go, but. . . sadly, I've almost conditioned myself to expect it. . .

You think Jefferson or Dice know what they're doing in our system yet? Add more new pieces, and watch them flail around too. Especially someone like Tyrus Thomas. Or are you suggesting that bringing in a bunch of new players at the midway point of the season is going to be a smooth transition? Now, that's a joke.

[SenorSpur]

I don't see either getting to the promise land.

If you're trying to get there this year or next, of course not. A trade if this type is not to win a title, it'll be to help rebuild the talent level on the roster.

The RJ trade and the other offseason free agent acquisitions, as bold as they were, have been a big failure. I applaud the Spurs for trying, but it hasn't worked. Blair has been the lone bright spot, and he came via the draft.

The FO had planned for an expected 2 year window of contention. That's now out the door because of those failed acquisitions. Now, the FO is in panic mode having to right the ship. However, at this point, is cannot be righted.

Want more evidence? A significant member of the championship core is already halfway out the door. Ginobili is as good as gone this summer. We all know it. There wont be another one like him coming anytime soon. I guess that will shock everyone into realizing this thing is really heading in South direction.

Whether any fan or Spurs official chooses to acknowledge it pubically, the Spurs championship run has effectively ended. Now the FO is forced to think about the future. That means rebuild. To stave off total perennial suckage, the Spurs need to invest in short-term, low-risk, young, affordable talent and make intelligent decisions in the draft. Players with energy, youth and athleticism that are hungry and can play every game are now the order of the day. Why? Because almost every contender in a stacked Western Conference has rosters that are virtually comprised of players of the same ilk.

The Spurs are no longer beating the youngsters. The youngsters are beating the Spurs. Look at the losses the Spurs have stockpiled this year. Swept by Portland. Swept by Denver. Swept by Utah. The days of adding older veterans to supplement a young Big Three are over. The Big Three, as a core, are now suffering from excessive mileage, wear and tear, age, and injury.

If you want to stay mediocre, continue to try and patch holes on a sinking ship. On the other hand, the sooner the FO and all us fans realize that its time to build a new ship, the sooner the renewal process can begin.

[Pentagruel]

If you're trying to get there this year or next, of course not. A trade if this type is not to win a title, it'll be to help rebuild the talent level on the roster.

The RJ trade and the other offseason free agent acquisitions, as bold as they were, have been a big failure. I applaud the Spurs for trying, but it hasn't worked. Blair has been the lone bright spot, and he came via the draft.

The FO had planned for an expected 2 year window of contention. That's now out the door because of those failed acquisitions. Now, the FO is in panic mode having to right the ship. However, at this point, is cannot be righted.

Want more evidence? A significant member of the championship core is already halfway out the door. Ginobili is as good as gone this summer. We all know it. There wont be another one like him coming anytime soon. I guess that will shock everyone into realizing this thing is really heading in South direction.

Whether any fan or Spurs official chooses to acknowledge it pubically, the Spurs championship run has effectively ended. Now the FO is forced to think about the future. That means rebuild. To stave off total perennial suckage, the Spurs need to invest in short-term, low-risk, young, affordable talent and make intelligent decisions in the draft. Players with energy, youth and athleticism that are hungry and can play every game are now the order of the day. Why? Because almost every contender in a stacked Western Conference has rosters that are virtually comprised of players of the same ilk.

The Spurs are no longer beating the youngsters. The youngsters are beating the Spurs. Look at the losses the Spurs have stockpiled this year. Swept by Portland. Swept by Denver. Swept by Utah. The days of adding older veterans to supplement a young Big Three are over. The Big Three, as a core, are now suffering from excessive mileage, wear and tear, age, and injury.

If you want to stay mediocre, continue to try and patch holes on a sinking ship. On the other hand, the sooner the FO and all us fans realize that its time to build a new ship, the sooner the renewal process can begin.


I agree with you. But isn't the Ty Thomas deal patching holes as you say?

[The Truth #6]

I agree the window has closed but rolling the dice on some underutilized malcontents like Randolph and Thomas hardly seems like the first pieces of a new foundation. We need to get draft picks not other people's problems.

[DJB]

I agree the window has closed but rolling the dice on some underutilized malcontents like Randolph and Thomas hardly seems like the first pieces of a new foundation. We need to get draft picks not other people's problems.


:toast

[Blackjack]

You think Jefferson or Dice know what they're doing in our system yet? Add more new pieces, and watch them flail around too. Especially someone like Tyrus Thomas. Or are you suggesting that bringing in a bunch of new players at the midway point of the season is going to be a smooth transition? Now, that's a joke.

They're going nowhere fast, as it is. At least with the addition of upgraded talent you leave open the possibility of a decent, respectable run; this team needs some fresh air in the locker room and an insurance poilcy for RJ. This could conceivably do both.

Plus, going ahead and getting Thomas and Salmons ingrained this year, allows them to build some of that corporate knowledge for next year. I'm not making light of the need for corporate knowledge or an intangible this team no doubt lacks, I'm just not going to hold off making a good basketball decision because of the exploits of Bonner, Fin or Mason. (Thomas-Salmons is a damn good trade for the Spurs if all it costs is those three; a future first-rounder isn't much of a sticking point, either. IMO.)

[Blackjack]

I agree the window has closed but rolling the dice on some underutilized malcontents like Randolph and Thomas hardly seems like the first pieces of a new foundation. We need to get draft picks not other people's problems.

Replacing RJ with Maggette is an upgrade in it of itself. Throw in Randolph, who's got the potential to be a franchise-level player, and it's a no-brainer for the Spurs.

Tyrus isn't a perfect solution and it's perfectly understandable to have reservations about his personality, but the rewards far outweigh the risk.

He's actually about as good an option as there is for their particular front court, because he provides a rim deterrent that can play out on the floor (something that could really compliment Tim at this stage). He's versatile, energetic, athletic and proven that he could come through under playoff pressure, which isn't something you're going to find in a first-round pick.

A battery of he and Blair would be a potential huge boost to this team, and be an ideal compliment to the aging Tim and 'Dyess.

[The Truth #6]

BlackJack,

My point is that bringing in any new bunch of players is basically starting over and it will take time. And if we're starting over, then what is the best way to move forward? I think Bonner and Finley are stiffs but I admit that it took them 1-2 years to grasp some sense of where they were supposed to be on the court. Again, they're mediocre players but I don't see a way around new players having to go through the same tedious time and work of learning how to play here.

My preference is for a new approach and system next year so that this tedious learning curve can be shortened and some sort of system is in place that isn't trying to replicate the glory days of the Big 3. I respect Pop but I think next year he should stay in the FO and spend time in Europe looking for new European players and grape varietals. A new coach should work with our new players. My hunch is that Avery has already been picked to succeed Pop so I'd prefer to just get along with this process.

I still think getting players of good work ethic is important, I just don't want them to have to be one step from retirement when they arrive.

Thomas and Salmons are an upgrade, and if that's the best we can get for our trash, then so be it. But if we can somehow get draft picks for our trash, then I would prefer that route.

[SenorSpur]

I agree with you. But isn't the Ty Thomas deal patching holes as you say?

Not necessarily. The main thing is the kid has tools this team needs. The ability to defend, rebound, & block shots.

If he pans out, great - and TT then becomes a building block for a franchise that has few. If not, the Spurs are not obligated to keep him past next year. He'll become a tradeable asset. That's the beauty of this trade.

We already know that what the Spurs have isn't good enough to win. The time has come to take calculated risks to significantly improve the roster talent for the long haul.

[SenorSpur]

Plus, going ahead and getting Thomas and Salmons ingrained this year, allows them to build some of that corporate knowledge for next year. I'm not making light of the need for corporate knowledge or an intangible this team no doubt lacks, I'm just not going to hold off making a good basketball decision because of the exploits of Bonner, Fin or Mason. (Thomas-Salmons is a damn good trade for the Spurs if all it costs is those three; a future first-rounder isn't much of a sticking point, either. IMO.)

Allow me to make light of Pop's favorite term.

I know what Pop means by the term. Familiarity with the system, team culture, the league, etc. It's just a bullshit corporate "buzz word" that sounds catchy. The bottom line, a player can't beat his opponent off the dribble, defend his position or block a shot simply with corporate knowledge. It takes ability too. The bottom line is corporate knowledge without tangible skill and measurable ability, is meanginless.

[Blackjack]

BlackJack,

My point is that bringing in any new bunch of players is basically starting over and it will take time. And if we're starting over, then what is the best way to move forward? I think Bonner and Finley are stiffs but I admit that it took them 1-2 years to grasp some sense of where they were supposed to be on the court. Again, they're mediocre players but I don't see a way around new players having to go through the same tedious time and work of learning how to play here.

I don't disagree with the time needed to acclimate and thrive in the Spurs' system. But I'm working under the premise that they're not going anywhere this year and finishing out with what they have would be nothing more than wasting precious time; if you can get good value on the dollar with your expirings now, you go ahead and do it (there's no harm in building an understanding and some chemistry before the start of next year).


My preference is for a new approach and system next year so that this tedious learning curve can be shortened and some sort of system is in place that isn't trying to replicate the glory days of the Big 3. I respect Pop but I think next year he should stay in the FO and spend time in Europe looking for new European players and grape varietals. A new coach should work with our new players. My hunch is that Avery has already been picked to succeed Pop so I'd prefer to just get along with this process.

Personally, I was hoping a for more up-tempo offense going into this year, one that would play out of it's defense and find ways to get easy, early offense; it was the only way I saw RJ being a net positive and the best way, in my view, to move forward with Tim. (let him go the way of Kareem)

But Tony came into the year hobbled and fatigued and, really, he just doesn't excel in igniting the break in a team concept (great on his own but not so much in advancing the ball or making the right play, at-the-right-time, with the right spacing). This team's actually pretty poor overall on the break; it definitely doesn't look like something that's emphasized properly in practice, which is perplexing given the incessant imploring from Pop to push the ball. But I digress. . .

But as it pertains to Thomas and Salmons, they're versatile players that are perfectly capable of helping the Spurs in whichever way they choose to go. Let's not forget that both of these guys have been on the Spurs radar for a while now and that the Spurs have made more than one attempt to acquire them in the past (even if not together). They know what type of players they are and, generally, what they're made of, so I see no reason why their skill sets couldn't succeed with this team moving forward.


I still think getting players of good work ethic is important, I just don't want them to have to be one step from retirement when they arrive.

I'm a big intangible guy and it's been one of my biggest points of contention with this team. This team looks like the Spurs, but there's not much in the way they're playing that suggests these are in fact "The Spurs".

Championship teams, by in large, typically trend to be older. It takes an intelligence, belief and battle-hardened players, to survive the crucible that is the NBA Playoffs. And, as Pop always used to say: "When we win we're experienced and when we lose we're old as dirt." It's a fine line and it's often the cause for a quick and sudden decline if not managed properly.

This team has lost a lot of it's glue and championship soul with the departure of their older supporting cast, and it's not something you can just replace overnight.

But there are roles within a team and aspects that each individual needs to bring individually for a group to have the ultimate success. There's room for the savvy, cagey vet, as well as the young, energetic and mistake-prone (to a degree). If your youth is providing enregy, effort and hustle, a mistake here or there isn't going to kill you. Should players that provide that be someone like Thomas or Blair (guys who aren't real decision-makers or creating for others), there's no reason to think they couldn't play a role in being part of that new supporting cast; Blair's work-ethic has been on point ever since arriving and, from just about all I've heard, Thomas is a basketball junky who's not afraid to put the time in (the maturity and attitude has been questioned, but he's also been in a less-than-ideal setting for him to find his way; he's a 23 year-old that could definitely use some consistency from his coach and team)


Thomas and Salmons are an upgrade, and if that's the best we can get for our trash, then so be it. But if we can somehow get draft picks for our trash, then I would prefer that route.

I just don't see any feasible ways in which to get better help for the remainder of Tim's window; their expirings aren't going to bring back lottery picks and short of trading Tony, which I suppose is plausible, moves like Thomas-Salmons and Maggette-Randolph are the ways I'd be looking to go.

Just one windbag's opinion, though. . .

[ss1986v2]

Thomas and Salmons are an upgrade, and if that's the best we can get for our trash, then so be it. But if we can somehow get draft picks for our trash, then I would prefer that route.

i would say that there is zero chance we get picks for our garbage. usually useful expirings can at best net more expirings and a late 1st and i cant see that happening for our guys. i cant think of one team in the league that would offer picks for any combination of bonner/mason/finley/mahinmi unless we were eating a less useful player on a worse contract, which kind of defeats the purpose.

i will trade our trash plus a late pick for useful pieces on reasonable contracts over our trash for worse pieces on bad contracts plus a late pick.

[jesterbobman]

I'm firmly in the Randolph camp. He has a little more to his game than Ty Thomas than just pure athleticism. The 2011 pick is on the table for me as long as there is decent protection, Randolph is better than who we could get at 15 in that draft. Also, given the history of big time free agents coming to SA, the 2011 cap space we're on target to have is more valuable to other teams than to us.

Say the discussed deal for Randolph and Maggette for RJ(Or some variation with another team in a 3 way) occurs, If we traded a protected 2011 pick, A future front of
Splitter/Blair
Randolph/Blair

Is decent enough. Good Defensively, Rebounding wise and can handle most types of matchups, and you can go big with Randolph at SF. In my semi realistic trade, We give the 2011 pick to the Warriors, they get Ty Thomas from Chicago and We get Biedrins to, but if that's not on, we could try to get Solomon Alabi or Parakhouski to do that role as the big true Centre.(If We got Biedrins, take a SF, that's where value is at 20).

If We're going the rebuild route, I'd even try to flip Manu for Iggy or KMart (Defense and playmaking are advantages in Iggy's favour, KMart is a better shooter and cheaper) as efficient scoring Wings who are available and Manu would quite possibly do it. Then Wait for Parker to get his groove back.(No point trading him low).

Biedrins/Splitter/McDyess
Duncan/Blair/Randolph
Maggette/Randolph/(2010 Pick)
(Martin or Iggy)/Hill/Hairston
Parker/Hill

That team has plenty of youngish talent so we don't need really need a 2011 pick, If we just let the expirings expire it's about 73 million for next year, and the only real need is either a pure shooter(Could re up Mason) or a Defender against big 2's. If you did that now, they'd have 30 games to gel for this playoffs and play a series together, then could get a year together to make a run for the 11 title. I think that that's a young team that could contend now, and would even be mildly frisky without Duncan

Biedrins/Splitter
Randolph/Blair
Maggette/Pick
Iggy/Hill/Hairston
Parker/Hill

[duncan228]

Jeff McDonald: I know the Spurs were sniffing around Ty Thomas ... but don't know if they can really offer a better deal than Charlotte


Jeff McDonald: All the Spurs can really offer a team are expiring contracts (ie cap relief next year)


Jeff McDonald: The problem with the Spurs is, there really aren't any deals out there that will drastically improve your team. And if you are going to take on MORE long-term contracts, and basically kill your payroll the next two seasons, you better be sure.

[Spurtacus]

I'd like to think a trade will help this team this season. Not gonna happen.

[hector234]

I'd like to think a trade will help this team this season. Not gonna happen.


Depends on the trade, getting a guy like Thomas would help the defense around the pain. Thomas has a lot of potential

[TD 21]

Doing this trade does not amount to taking a risk. Do you honestly believe that Salmons and Ty Thomas are the missing pieces to vault the Spurs into championship contention? I think that sentiment is just foolhardy. Why add more money on the books (salmons) past this season for something that will net you less then a championship. Its not that this trade wouldn't make us any better, it would, it just won't make us good enough to realistically compete for a ship'.

Id much rather keep our draft picks (including Splitter) to help rebuild the team in the future. The only trades I would be willing to make is one that would truly and instantly put us in a position to win the championship or one that brings us a great young talent (not TT; I simply don't think he will ever reach his supposed potential) for the future. Such a trade is not available at this time.

Like I said, I don't even see it as a risk. I never called them the missing pieces, but they upgrade the talent, athleticism, defense and offer more clarify as far as the rotation/role definition, so I think they'd improve this teams chances. This team looks so far from being a contender that probably no realistic trade they can do would make them a contender again, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep trying. They have some flexibility now and they need to utilize it. The primary goal (within' reason) is to win Duncan one for the thumb and to, in the process, not sacrifice the future. This trade improves the chances of the former and improves the potential of the latter.

Salmons' salary for next season is Mason's/Finley's combined. The Spurs will have to replace them both anyway, as I suspect Finley will retire and Mason will be tough to re-sign because he, like Splitter, has to be paid using the MLE. Even with salaries shrinking, I doubt the Spurs could squeeze those two into the MLE and they're not picking Mason over Splitter, for obvious reasons.

Don't you get it? Thomas basically is a draft pick and on top of that, he's almost certainly better than what the Spurs could get picking in the range they'll likely pick in. People stereotype players like Thomas and get caught up in their potential, but no one ever talks about the players they are. Thomas, while he's mistake prone, immature and a malcontent, is already a solid, productive player.

[ss1986v2]

Salmons' salary for next season is Mason's/Finley's combined. The Spurs will have to replace them both anyway, as I suspect Finley will retire and Mason will be tough to re-sign because he, like Splitter, has to be paid using the MLE. Even with salaries shrinking, I doubt the Spurs could squeeze those two into the MLE and they're not picking Mason over Splitter, for obvious reasons.

i agree with your stance totally, just thought i should clarify this a bit. we dont have to spend our MLE on mason. being a early bird free agent this summer, we can offer him up to the full value of the MLE (or 175% of his previous salary) without actually using our MLE.

[Bruno]

The report saying that Bobcats have offered their 2010 first round pick can't be taken seriously. They have still traded it and the soonest first round pick they can trade is their 2012 ones.

So far, it looks like the best offer is from Portland with expirings and a couple of second round picks. These second round picks aren't even early ones.

[SenorSpur]

Certainly the Spurs can "sweeten" their offer to Chicago with, perhaps, a first-rounder in 2012, or the rights to Spiltter. I also want to see the Spurs stick it to Portland for them stealing Batum from under their noses in the 2008 draft.

[TD 21]

i agree with your stance totally, just thought i should clarify this a bit. we dont have to spend our MLE on mason. being a early bird free agent this summer, we can offer him up to the full value of the MLE (or 175% of his previous salary) without actually using our MLE.

Good work. That changes what I had previously thought would be the potential '10-11 roster. Don't get me wrong, I like Mason, but I wouldn't let him be a deal breaker in this trade, however, if the Spurs don't make this, or any trade, this means there's a good chance that they can re-sign him and sign Splitter.

[SenorSpur]

I just thought about this. Wouldn't it be cool if the Spurs did the trade (Bonner, Finley, Mason - Thomas & Salmons) now, then shipped RJ out this summer and resigned Mason again? With Manu expected to leave, it would be good to have a proven, veteran shooter, like Mason, back in the fold.

[SenorSpur]

The report saying that Bobcats have offered their 2010 first round pick can't be taken seriously. They have still traded it and the soonest first round pick they can trade is their 2012 ones.

So far, it looks like the best offer is from Portland with expirings and a couple of second round picks. These second round picks aren't even early ones.

Perhaps Portland isn't as committed toward making such a trade, as they're letting on.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64625/20100211/roy_likes_portlands_reluctance_to_make_trade/

That piss-ant GM, Bitchard, is approached all the time to part with specific pieces of his team. I know that Coach McMillian absolutely loves Blake. We'll see if they truly are willing to part with both Blake and Outlaw.

[DPG21920]

Did someone post this article already?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-thomasbulls021010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


After the Chicago Bulls suspended forward Tyrus Thomas for losing his temper with coach Vinny Del Negro, an interesting thing happened: More teams started calling the franchise’s front office wanting to talk about a trade.

Everyone understood Chicago executives are now determined to move Thomas, and a clear price has been established for suitors: Expiring contracts and a future first-round draft pick, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Bulls are also exploring ways to package Thomas with guard Kirk Hinrich to free themselves of his contract.

The Charlotte Bobcats bid Acie Law, and Flip Murray, a league executive said. The Bobcats have been searching for a long, athletic forward like Thomas, the fourth pick in the 2007 draft, and are expected to be aggressive pursuers. Portland Trail Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard made an offer they’ll have to improve upon to be taken seriously – one of his expiring contracts (Steve Blake or Travis Outlaw) and two future second-round draft picks.

The New York Knicks, Sacramento Kings, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets and New Orleans Hornets are among the multiple teams who’ve spoken to Chicago about Thomas. The Bulls are telling people that they have several teams willing to offer first-round picks – in 2010 or beyond.

Bulls management is telling teams they expect to take the bidding right to the Feb. 18 deadline. The Bulls want to avoid the possibility of Thomas accepting a $6.2 million qualifying offer on the eve of this summer’s free agency, which would deliver a major dent to their salary-cap space. Thomas, 23, will be a restricted free agent this summer.

The Bulls are desperate to recruit Miami’s Dwyane Wade(notes) back to his hometown, but one source familiar with Wade’s thinking says he’s ”far less” inclined to bolt Miami unless Chicago has the ability to sign a ”significant” free agent to join him.

[5in10]

^ yes but not sure if was in this thread.

[benefactor]

Hmm...I wonder if the Spurs are one of the teams willing to offer a pick.

[SenorSpur]

Latest word on the Thomas trade from Hoopshype, courtesy of CBSSportline:

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Portland has joined San Antonio, Denver, Charlotte, and Sacramento in the pursuit of Tyrus Thomas, with one person familiar with the situation characterizing the Blazers as “close” to finding a workable scenario. Rival execs have contradicted that account, saying the Bulls are telling them they need to sweeten their offers. Chicago is seeking a quality draft pick in addition to cap relief. Denver and Charlotte have conditional 2010 second-round picks from previous trades, and Denver also could offer a second-round pick that can be swapped with the Clippers.

[Bruno]

Hmm...I wonder if the Spurs are one of the teams willing to offer a pick.

I think Bulls are bluffing.

[DPG21920]

With regards to expiring contracts, Mason fits what the Bulls need this year; outside shooting.

[SenorSpur]

With regards to expiring contracts, Mason fits what the Bulls need this year; outside shooting.

...in sort of a poor man's Ben Gordon kind of way.

[Bruno]

I guess Bulls will be more interested in Bonner. Without Thomas, they are very at the PF spot. Bonner also bring the outside shooting they need.

[jermaine]

With regards to expiring contracts, Mason fits what the Bulls need this year; outside shooting.


Mason & Ian is all the Spurs should offer for TT. Throw in the Rights to Splitter, a draft pick & Bonner for Kirk. Otha than that we would be fucking ourselves! IMO

[benefactor]

I think Bulls are bluffing.
You're probably right. Oh, and rofl at the Bulls thinking they can get anyone to take Hinrich's contract. They are much better off trying to move Salmons with Thomas if they are looking for cap relief.

[DPG21920]

I would most definitely be looking to move Bonner over Mason, but the Bulls seem to want guards that can shoot the 3 (trading for Brown, CHA offering Flip Murrary, POR offering Blake...). It just seems they are more interested in guards.

[jermaine]

You're probably right. Oh, and rofl at the Bulls thinking they can get anyone to take Hinrich's contract. They are much better off trying to move Salmons with Thomas if they are looking for cap relief.

I think Hinrich is better for your team in the long run!

[SenorSpur]

The Bulls are sorely deficient in perimeter scoring, ever since that stupidly allowed Gordoon to walk in free agency this past summer. Bonner and Mason would provide some measure of outside shooting for them. Assuming, of course, they're really serious about this scenario.

[temujin]

If the spurs started recruiting from Mensa would that be better?

Actually.. I think your onto something here.

I could defenitely see this starting a trend among the nba and pretty soon we'd be watching former math wizzes turned nba basketball players calculating passing angles and banking shots from 30+ feet with 100% accuracy.

Instead of judging athletic prowess at the combine they would instead run IQ tests instead and teams would invite athletes to take part in Jeapordy trials.

Ok maybe I'm exaggerating here.. but the point is valid.

In terms of IQ, you are the Tyrus Thomas of this board.

[temujin]

You have reading comprehension problems huh? I repeat for the reading impaired: The reason Thomas is not starting is not because he's stupid its because the bulls lucked into finding a guy who's cheaper and almost as good and want to move him to free up salary for a shot at Lebron/Wade/Bosh this summer. Get it yet?

And comparing a Euro douche without even any post game to one of the most skilled big men in the NBA is funny.

Hot air.
Thomas lost his starting job to a rookie.
Period.
I actually watched a few Bulls game and Thomas is quite dumb. Maybe, just maybe, his coach thinks the same.

And yes, Gasol was a "Euro douche" a-la-Splitter, before he went to Memphis.

I suspect that you know less of the NBA than you do of Euroleague basketball.

[mountainballer]

a guy on the Bulls board on realgm opend a thread with a Twitter quote:


So much Tyrus talk here at All-Star weekend that you gotta believe he'll get dealt. Bulls have revived old talks with Knicks for Harrington

link doesn't work, so I don't know where the info came from.
(deal would likely be TT+Jerome James for Harrington)

NY can't offer a 1st round pick, but of course, if the Bulls still want help and talent for this season, Harrington offers more than Mason+Bonner+Fin.

[Bruno]

^ The info come form Bulls' beat writer:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-100212-bulls-bits-taj-gibson,0,5596071.story



Rumor mill: League sources said the Bulls and Knicks have renewed talks that stalled in early December on a Tyrus Thomas for Al Harrington swap. Other Bulls' salaries would need to be included to make the trade work.

The Bulls continue to shop Thomas aggressively, including as part of larger deals involving John Salmons or Kirk Hinrich. The Bulls have told teams they are seeking expiring contracts and draft picks.

[mountainballer]

thanks.
I looked at other articles from this writer. there was one aspect, that caught my attention:


If you've been watching then you may have noticed depth isn't exactly the Bulls greatest strength. Rose, Hinrich, Salmons, Deng, Tyrus, Gibson, Miller, Noah.

That's eight guys, no one else on the team has shown they can come close to playing at a level to belong in the eight man rotation. Of those eight guys, Noah and Gibson have plantar fasciitis.

the discussed package of Mason, Bonner, Fin (+pick?) for TT and Salmons doesn't send back a lot of quality, but what for sure can be said is, that those are 3 guys, who are/were regular rotation players for a Western PO team. should be good enough for the rotation of an Eastern borderline PO team either.
if depth (especially front court depth) is an issue for the Bulls, maybe the addition of Ian or Ratliff is somehow intriguing for the Bulls.
for the Spurs it wouldn't matter.
maybe the trade packages of:
Salmons-TT-Pargo for Mason-Fin-Bonner-Ian/Ratliff (+pick)
would make the most sense on both sides.

(note: if Ratliff is included, the trade doesn't work. some adjustments are necessary)

edit: I wonder if the Bulls might show some interest in De Colo's rights. Bulls know very well how to value performances in Europe (especially Spain) and De Colo has been impressive enough to look at least like very good value for a late 2nd round pick. Bulls can't know who they can/will bring in 2010 (Wade? Joe Johnson? Bosh? produce pretty different situations.). a very versatile guy, who could become a bit of a glue guy in the back court, might be an intriguing option for the future.

[Bruno]

thanks.
maybe the trade packages of:
Salmons-TT-Pargo for Mason-Fin-Bonner-Ian/Ratliff (+pick)
would make the most sense on both sides.


Not really because you had to consider the luxury tax.

The best trade package for Spurs would be this trade without Pargo included. Between his salary and his remaining salary, Pargo would cost $2.7M to Spurs. It's a lot of money for a player who has been awful this year.

Bulls will still stay below the tax with Pargo removed of this trade and they don't really have roster spot troubles to do a 2 for 4 trade.

[MaNu4Tres]

Not really because you had to consider the luxury tax.

The best trade package for Spurs would be this trade without Pargo included. Between his salary and his remaining salary, Pargo would cost $2.7M to Spurs. It's a lot of money for a player who has been awful this year.

Bulls will still stay below the tax with Pargo removed of this trade and they don't really have roster spot troubles to do a 2 for 4 trade.

+1

2.7 million extra on the cap for a player who would be dressed in a coat most of the time is a little steep.

[EricB]

:lol @ Tyrus Thomas

[elgato21]

Thomas has no IQ to play with Pop, he will be lost here, no way that works

[gospursgojas]

Tyrus thomas sucks.

Does anyone here even watch the nba?

[ace3g]

now that the Mavs/Wizards trade is complete, Spurs need to get do the Salmons/Thomas trade or if possible Iggy/Dalembert trade

[benefactor]

Do any of you naysayers have any other realistic options? Or would you just rather stand pat?

[benefactor]

Do any of you naysayers have any other realistic options? Or would you just rather stand pat?
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/fish/image_gallery/data/media/100/crickets.jpg
That's what I thought......

[FeZZy]

Camby?
Tyrus Thomas w/ Salmons?
Iggy w/ Dalembert or Brand?
PICK ONE

[SenorSpur]

Do any of you naysayers have any other realistic options? Or would you just rather stand pat?

For all those naysayers:

As if this Spurs team, as currently constructed, has a "snowball's chance in hell" of competing with the Fakers - or making a deep playoff run for that matter. :rolleyes

[SenorSpur]

Mason & Ian is all the Spurs should offer for TT. Throw in the Rights to Splitter, a draft pick & Bonner for Kirk. Otha than that we would be fucking ourselves! IMO

This is not just about getting Thomas, it's also nabbing Salmons too.

Offering Mason, Bonner & Finley, in exchange for those two works, but the Bulls will probably want some sweetener. That's when the Spurs may need to throw in either Splitter's rights, a pick, or some other fluff.

If the Spurs don't parlay these expiring contracts for these two younger, more talented players, then it is THEY who are fucking themselves.

[ffadicted]

Mason & Ian is all the Spurs should offer for TT. Throw in the Rights to Splitter, a draft pick & Bonner for Kirk. Otha than that we would be fucking ourselves! IMO

I wouldn't part with a first rounder or Splitter, but Mason/Ian/Bonner/Finley for Thomas/Salmons I would do in a heartbeat

[SenorSpur]

I wouldn't part with a first rounder or Splitter, but Mason/Ian/Bonner/Finley for Thomas/Salmons I would do in a heartbeat

!st round picks are like gold. Because the picks are going to be so important to an aging team like the Spurs, I wouldn't part with one either. Instead, I would try and sell them either Splitter's rights.

Personally, I wouldn't part with Ian. He's on the roster and we KNOW of his raw skills and talent potential. I'd much rather part with Spiltter's rights. After all, there's no guarantees he'll be in the NBA next season.

Either way, the Spurs NEED to get this deal done.

[Gino2882]

Ian is much more expendable than Splitter. Ian is getting no playing time this year and is an expiring contract. I don't see the Spurs bringing him back if they do not plan on playing him this year.

Splitter is a wild card who could be an immediate rotation player next year.

[Allanon]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?

[alchemist]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?
Gasol does a great job of taking out Bynum. Spurs are more concerned about Gasol than Kareemshaqwilt Jr.

[AFBlue]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?

Bynum isn't the matchup problem for the Spurs, it's Odom. And theoretically Thomas is quick and athletic enough to defend him.

The problem is whether Pop would elect to play Thomas when he inevitably shortens his rotation come playoff time.

At this point though, if all it takes are piece-parts and something other than Blair or Hill to get the both of them...I say why not?

[ffadicted]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?

Haywood was the last hope, I don't know anybody else we could get that fits the bill. Thomas+Salmons is definitly an upgrade from Mason/Bonner/Finley, no one can deny that, but I agree that it doesn't do much to help the spurs against the Lakers frontcourt

[Allanon]

Gasol does a great job of taking out Bynum. Spurs are more concerned about Gasol than Kareemshaqwilt Jr.

Word this weekend is that Bynum is getting shifted to the bench to solve the Gasol/Bynum problem. They both play great apart from each other.

If that's the case, Gasol+Odom to start against Duncan/Dice?

Kareemshaqwilt jr off the bench would probably put up 20/10 on Bonner or Tyrus Thomas :lol

[Allanon]

Bynum isn't the matchup problem for the Spurs, it's Odom. And theoretically Thomas is quick and athletic enough to defend him.

The problem is whether Pop would elect to play Thomas when he inevitably shortens his rotation come playoff time.

At this point though, if all it takes are piece-parts and something other than Blair or Hill to get the both of them...I say why not?

I think you can replace Hill but a mad rebounder like Blair is gonna be difficult to replace.

[ace3g]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?

but if Thomas can help guard Odom and get some block shots that is a positive.

[Allanon]

but if Thomas can help guard Odom and get some block shots that is a positive.

That is possible if Tyrus gets put into the starting lineup. That would leave Dice on Bynum which I'm not sure he can guard.

From what I've noticed, Thomas isn't much of an Odom stopper. Ben Gordon scored well on the Lakers. Salmons and Hinrich give the Lakers more problems than Tyrus from what I remember.

[AFBlue]

I think you can replace Hill but a mad rebounder like Blair is gonna be difficult to replace.

Wouldn't be worth it to get rid of either.

If Hill can play alongside Tony, as he's proven he can do thus far, I think his value to this team long-term outweighs most short-term gains.

And Blair is a rookie who can put up 20-20 games and has potential to grow...nuff said.

As for Mahinmi, unnamed first round pick or Splitter's rights...given the right situation I wouldn't have issue parting with any of them.

[ace3g]

That is possible if Tyrus gets put into the starting lineup. That would leave Dice on Bynum which I'm not sure he can guard.

From what I've noticed, Thomas isn't much of an Odom stopper. Ben Gordon scored well on the Lakers. Salmons and Hinrich give the Lakers more problems than Tyrus from what I remember.

since when is Odom in the starting lineup for the Lakers: Fisher, Kobe, Artest, Bynum, Gasol

Odom comes off the bench

[Allanon]

since when is Odom in the starting lineup for the Lakers: Fisher, Kobe, Artest, Bynum, Gasol

Odom comes off the bench

This is ASB news of the last couple of days. As you and alchemist mentioned, Pau/Bynum don't play well together.

So, the news broke yesterday that the Lakers are probably sending Bynum to the bench and Odom to start.

Odom and Gasol is a much more effective combo than Pau+Bynum. And Bynum and Odom is very effective too so it makes sense that the Lakers are moving Bynum to the bench.

[ace3g]

well either way if the Spurs could have an option like Thomas an athletic PF that could stay with Odom that would help neutralize one of the Lakers weapons.

right now with the Thomas/Salmons trade in my opinion Salmons would help more because he would bring stability to the SG/SF spot and is a playmaker, and when he gets on a hot streak he is hard to stop

[alchemist]

Word this weekend is that Bynum is getting shifted to the bench to solve the Gasol/Bynum problem. They both play great apart from each other.

If that's the case, Gasol+Odom to start against Duncan/Dice?

Kareemshaqwilt jr off the bench would probably put up 20/10 on Bonner or Tyrus Thomas :lol
yes he would

[ace3g]

and it hard to judge Thomas this year against Odom because he did not play in either game due to injury I think

[Ice009]

I think this is the trade to go for TT and Salmons for expiring contracts. I'm not sure about adding either a first round pick or Splitter though to get it done, but I would definitely still think about adding extra if the trade requires it.

Iggy and Dalembert is next on my list.

[jesterbobman]

I definitely think Mahinmi/Mason/Finley/Bonner For Ty and Salmons is a no brainer. This years pick can't be traded, and I think of the two, the 2011 pick is more valuable to the Bulls as it wouldn't affect their 2010 cap space in the way signing Splitter to a $4 mill a year type deal would. There aren't a lot of available centres that could be gotten easily that can do the job. Foster's injured, Haywood's gone, Nazr is part of Charlotte run. Then the other Centres available(or potentially available) are either too expensive(Dalembert, Unless it was for RJ), poor man defenders(Camby is great at help D, but his post play is suspect) or have long contracts like Biedrins. While I like Biedrins, I understand not wanting to commit to the last 5 years of his deal. The best available/conceivable possible deal is probably Thomas and Salmons for the Bonner/Ian/Finley/Mason platter, especially if there is some desire to keep some flexibility and keep 2011 space open(Which would rule out Biedrins, Maggette and Iggy), and Ty/Salmons gives us options and different looks defending against Denver(Salmons and Ty on Melo), LAL(Salmons on Kobe&Artest Ty on Artest/Odom and gives a different type of guy on Gasol), Dallas(On Butler, Ty on Dirk). They gives us that option. We're still a bit weak against Centres, but Tim can do Interior defense and this improves the Small Ball PF position significantly. Though We'd need to pick up a waiver wire shooter.

Blair/Dyess
Tim/Ty Thomas
Jefferson/Salmons
Salmons/Manu
Parker/Hill

as the playoff rotation, With Ratliff, Bogans and Hairston/Waiver Deadline shooter playing spot minutes.

Not perfect, but probably the best we can do.

[UnWantedTheory]

I really dont see a Ty Thomas and J Salmons trade helping us that much...but I suppose we must try something. Although, I dont believe we will. I believe the team although a year older, will be better next year. Despite our cap situation I believe we will make signifigant alterations in the offseason. Well, at least I hope. Fuck it..If the Spurs ship sinks, I know I can swim...for as long as it takes.

[timtonymanu]

just 4 more days until we find out if Salmons, Thomas, or any player will be a Spur. I hope there's a trade. With the Mavs doing a trade and possibly the Cavs, we need to try to see if we can get anything.

[jermaine]

just 4 more days until we find out if Salmons, Thomas, or any player will be a Spur. I hope there's a trade. With the Mavs doing a trade and possibly the Cavs, we need to try to see if we can get anything.

The Cavs are close to a deal with the Suns. Amare foe Zek. If Amare couldn't play with Shaq at first, what's gonna change with the Cavs?

[jermaine]

I don't know bout giving up JJ for Amare though. He's young an plays better defense already. The Suns goona be nice in yrs to come with that young talent.

[jiggy_55]

I really hope we pull off some sort of trade. After the Mavs trade, we certainly need a trade if we have any chance of making some noise in the playoffs. If there's no trade, this team may struggle to even make the playoffs imho.

[TJastal]

Word this weekend is that Bynum is getting shifted to the bench to solve the Gasol/Bynum problem. They both play great apart from each other.

If that's the case, Gasol+Odom to start against Duncan/Dice?

Kareemshaqwilt jr off the bench would probably put up 20/10 on Bonner or Tyrus Thomas :lol

If Bynum gets benched in favor of Odom you can believe he's going to go into full sulk and disinterested mode. Enough so PJ has no choice but to bring him back to the starting lineup.

[AFBlue]

I really hope we pull off some sort of trade. After the Mavs trade, we certainly need a trade if we have any chance of making some noise in the playoffs. If there's no trade, this team may struggle to even make the playoffs imho.

Spurs FO won't make a trade to "make noise" or as a response to any team but the benchmark, LA.

If the Spurs think that adding a guy like Thomas puts them in a position to legitimately contend, then they'll make the deal. If not, then they'll stand pat, hope for health and a second-half surge from their new additions.

[TD 21]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?

For the record, Thomas is 215 and Bynum is 272.

This used to be my mentality to and while I still maintain that the Spurs need another center-sized player, the reality is they need a mobile power forward probably just as much. Thomas can theoretically guard Nowitzki, Odom, Aldridge, etc. These are the types of players who kill the Spurs.

Bynum? As much as I'd like to have another big to deal with the remaining true centers left, the reality is Duncan is a center at this point in his career and (particularly in the playoffs) he'll play the majority of the minutes and far more often than not, the Spurs will win that match-up.

[Truckules]

The biggest problem with losing Bonner and Mason is that they are the best 3 pt. shooters on the team. Salmons is a decent 3 pt. shooter but not good enough to balance out the loss of Bonner and Mason. If this trade goes down, Hill, Salmons, and Manu become the best shooters on the team. This team would have to undergo a major identity change and I don't think Pop wants that to happen. I don't really think a trade is gonna happen unless it involves RJ and either Mason or Bonner. I think Pop will want to keep one of those guys (probably Bonner). So RJ, Mason, and Finley are probably the guys that the FO is shopping.

[Big P]

There really isn't a move out there that would help us win it all THIS year. If we are going to make a trade, make it with the next 2 or 3 years in mind.

[benefactor]

The loss in three point shooting isn't going to hurt us as much as you think. Mason has been woefully inconsistent and has spent more time in Pops doghouse then out of it. Over the last 15 games, he is only 19-53 from distance. Bonner is effective as a deep threat, but his physical limitations on the other end tend to offset that.

With Salmons we get a player that is not only just a good of a shooter, but a far better defender, ball handler and play maker. Thomas can't shoot the three, but he has a much improved jump shot and the things he will bring with his defense will help more than the loss of shooting will hurt. So in reality we only lose one three point shooter but get much better athletically and defensively.

[Mel_13]

The loss in three point shooting isn't going to hurt us as much as you think. Mason has been woefully inconsistent and has spent more time in Pops doghouse then out of it. Over the last 15 games, he is only 19-53 from distance. Bonner is effective as a deep threat, but his physical limitations on the other end tend to offset that.

With Salmons we get a player that is not only just a good of a shooter, but a far better defender, ball handler and play maker. Thomas can't shoot the three, but he has a much improved jump shot and the things he will bring with his defense will help more than the loss of shooting will hurt. So in reality we only lose one three point shooter but get much better athletically and defensively.


If Thomas/Salmons for Bonner/Mason/Finley is on the table, then the Spurs should make the trade. The real questions are whether a package of expiring contracts will be enough to make that trade happen and how much should the Spurs be willing to add? I'd be very reluctant to part with a first rounder or the rights to Splitter to get this deal done.

While it doesn't affect my opinion on the trade, calling TT's jump shot much improved is technically true in the sense that he no longer one of the five worst jump shooters in the NBA, but he still makes less than 38% of his jump shots.

[MaNu4Tres]

The loss in three point shooting isn't going to hurt us as much as you think. Mason has been woefully inconsistent and has spent more time in Pops doghouse then out of it. Over the last 15 games, he is only 19-53 from distance. Bonner is effective as a deep threat, but his physical limitations on the other end tend to offset that.

With Salmons we get a player that is not only just a good of a shooter, but a far better defender, ball handler and play maker. Thomas can't shoot the three, but he has a much improved jump shot and the things he will bring with his defense will help more than the loss of shooting will hurt. So in reality we only lose one three point shooter but get much better athletically and defensively.



:tu

[exstatic]

John Salmons helps versus the Lakers. For whatever reason, he plays very well against Kobe.

Tyrus Thomas...does San Antonio really need another 6'9" 220 pound undersized "Center" to defend 7'1 280 pound Andrew Bynum?

Will Bynum be healthy for the playoffs?

[DPG21920]

Tim would defend Bynum and TT would defend Pau.

[tdunk21]

Tim would defend Bynum and TT would defend Pau.

timmy defending pau is better than TT guarding him....coz in the last game with the lakers, when timmy was guardin pau...pau was kinda strugglin to make shots...

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

David Aldridge said that 3 teams, Houston Portland and Denver, are all trying to get Thomas. In fact, he said Denver is REALLY after Tyrus.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=986606&start=105

[dbestpro]

big bigs to be had.

Brezec 7-1 255
Curry 7-0 295
Diop 7-0 280
Gray 7-0 270
Milicic 7-0 275
Pachulia 6-11 275

[benefactor]

If Thomas/Salmons for Bonner/Mason/Finley is on the table, then the Spurs should make the trade. The real questions are whether a package of expiring contracts will be enough to make that trade happen and how much should the Spurs be willing to add? I'd be very reluctant to part with a first rounder or the rights to Splitter to get this deal done.

While it doesn't affect my opinion on the trade, calling TT's jump shot much improved is technically true in the sense that he no longer one of the five worst jump shooters in the NBA, but he still makes less than 38% of his jump shots.
I have the same reservations about a pick/Splitter...but I think only Splitter would be a deal breaker. Giving away the rights to Splitter in a trade that is already a little questionable from a fruit standpoint has Scola 2.0 written all over it. If I was calling the shots and Chicago was saying they absolutely had to have a pick to do the deal I'd probably go ahead and do it.

Yeah...Thomas' jump shot is certainly not close to Dice automatic, but I think it's probably good enough to keep teams from just leaving him out there wide open. The Spurs need for a long mobile forward like him to help even out match ups with Dirks and Paus is greater than Thomas' iffy jumper IMO.

[Mel_13]

I have the same reservations about a pick/Splitter...but I think only Splitter would be a deal breaker. Giving away the rights to Splitter in a trade that is already a little questionable from a fruit standpoint has Scola 2.0 written all over it. If I was calling the shots and Chicago was saying they absolutely had to have a pick to do the deal I'd probably go ahead and do it.

Yeah...Thomas' jump shot is certainly not close to Dice automatic, but I think it's probably good enough to keep teams from just leaving him out there wide open. The Spurs need for a long mobile forward like him to help even out match ups with Dirks and Paus is greater than Thomas' iffy jumper IMO.

I agree. I believe Splitter is a more valuable asset than a pick and the reason to acquire Thomas is defense and rebounding. The Spurs have enough offense and very few possessions should end with a Thomas jump shot.

[exstatic]

I agree. I believe Splitter is a more valuable asset than a pick and the reason to acquire Thomas is defense and rebounding. The Spurs have enough offense and very few possessions should end with a Thomas jump shot.

You realize that NBA coaches are good enough to force Thomas to take the shot. They just collapse an extra man into the lane and cover everyone else, sort of a box and one zone. It's REALLY difficult to hide a player on offense for more than a minute or two.

[Mel_13]

You realize that NBA coaches are good enough to force Thomas to take the shot. They just collapse an extra man into the lane and cover everyone else, sort of a box and one zone. It's REALLY difficult to hide a player on offense for more than a minute or two.

Even if true, would that keep you from making the trade discussed here?

[exstatic]

Even if true, would that keep you from making the trade discussed here?

I'd rather get Hinrich and TT than Salmons. Hinrich is a great defensive guard and a knockdown 3 point shooter. He's also signed for 2 more years, and his salary goes DOWN each year.

TT would be filler with possible re-signage at a lower rate; a project. He's not going to help this year at all. He doesn't have the jumper or the basketball chops. You HAVE to be able to do more than jump high and run fast.

[Mel_13]

I'd rather get Hinrich and TT than Salmons. Hinrich is a great defensive guard and a knockdown 3 point shooter. He's also signed for 2 more years, and his salary goes DOWN each year.

TT would be filler with possible re-signage at a lower rate; a project. He's not going to help this year at all. He doesn't have the jumper or the basketball chops. You HAVE to be able to do more than jump high and run fast.

So you wouldn't trade Finley/Mason/Bonner for Thomas/Salmons?

[safetypickle]

I'd rather get Hinrich and TT than Salmons. Hinrich is a great defensive guard and a knockdown 3 point shooter. He's also signed for 2 more years, and his salary goes DOWN each year.

TT would be filler with possible re-signage at a lower rate; a project. He's not going to help this year at all. He doesn't have the jumper or the basketball chops. You HAVE to be able to do more than jump high and run fast.

I don't understand the claims that TT can't make a difference this year. Did no one see his performance in last years playoff series versus ATL?

[exstatic]

So you wouldn't trade Finley/Mason/Bonner for Thomas/Salmons?

What I would do is immaterial, as is what you would do. Will the Spurs do that deal? Not likely.

[Mel_13]

What I would do is immaterial, as is what you would do. Will the Spurs do that deal? Not likely.

I'll rephrase. Do you believe that trade, if made, would benefit the Spurs?

[exstatic]

I'll rephrase. Do you believe that trade, if made, would benefit the Spurs?

No, not even this year. It's FAR too late to integrate new rotation players.

It also costs them Ginobili this summer. If they don't let those deals roll off, there's no way they re-sign him.

Spurs won't make the deal as constituted.

[Obstructed_View]

big bigs to be had.

Brezec 7-1 255
Curry 7-0 295
Diop 7-0 280
Gray 7-0 270
Milicic 7-0 275
Pachulia 6-11 275

Ian Mahinmi - 6'11" 245

[Mel_13]

No, not even this year. It's FAR too late to integrate new rotation players.

It also costs them Ginobili this summer. If they don't let those deals roll off, there's no way they re-sign him.

Spurs won't make the deal as constituted.

The safe bet is no such trade takes place. I disagree that it's too late to improve the team.

Having Hinrich on the books for next year would definitely make retaining Manu unlikely, Salmons won't cost much more than a new deal for Mason.

[TD 21]

The loss in three point shooting isn't going to hurt us as much as you think. Mason has been woefully inconsistent and has spent more time in Pops doghouse then out of it. Over the last 15 games, he is only 19-53 from distance. Bonner is effective as a deep threat, but his physical limitations on the other end tend to offset that.

With Salmons we get a player that is not only just a good of a shooter, but a far better defender, ball handler and play maker. Thomas can't shoot the three, but he has a much improved jump shot and the things he will bring with his defense will help more than the loss of shooting will hurt. So in reality we only lose one three point shooter but get much better athletically and defensively.

Excellent post. Despite the similar percentages, I think Mason is a better shooter than Salmons, but it's not by that wide a margin and if you give Salmons the looks that Mason get's, he'd probably shoot as good a percentage; he's not far off as is.


Tim would defend Bynum and TT would defend Pau.

Primarily, Duncan would defend Bynum, McDyess would defend Gasol and Thomas would defend Odom. I presume Thomas would see some time on Gasol, but out of the Lakers bigs, he matches up best with Odom. At least theoretically.


big bigs to be had.

Brezec 7-1 255
Curry 7-0 295
Diop 7-0 280
Gray 7-0 270
Milicic 7-0 275
Pachulia 6-11 275

Curry is 6-11 310

Other outdated listings that I know of: Bynum is 7-1 272, 7-0 not 285; Duncan is 240, not 260 and Nowitzki is 243, not 245. Probably the most unbelievable/foolish listings in the league are Thomas (Kurt) at 235 and Wallace (Rasheed) at 230; maybe ten years ago they were. Now? They've got to weigh significantly more than that.

[SenorSpur]

I have the same reservations about a pick/Splitter...but I think only Splitter would be a deal breaker. Giving away the rights to Splitter in a trade that is already a little questionable from a fruit standpoint has Scola 2.0 written all over it. If I was calling the shots and Chicago was saying they absolutely had to have a pick to do the deal I'd probably go ahead and do it.

Yeah...Thomas' jump shot is certainly not close to Dice automatic, but I think it's probably good enough to keep teams from just leaving him out there wide open. The Spurs need for a long mobile forward like him to help even out match ups with Dirks and Paus is greater than Thomas' iffy jumper IMO.

Excellent post!
:tu

[exstatic]

The safe bet is no such trade takes place. I disagree that it's too late to improve the team.

Having Hinrich on the books for next year would definitely make retaining Manu unlikely, Salmons won't cost much more than a new deal for Mason.

So, Thomas is a throwaway? His QO is $6.25M. Between that and Salmons $5.8M, signing Manu is unlikely, not to mention Splitter. I think Mason may not be retained, anyway, so I factored that in already.

RJ is fucking up our cap.

[Allanon]

Will Bynum be healthy for the playoffs?

That is a valid question. He hsan't been,maybe he's overdue now?

Should the Spurs be willing to bet that Bynum will be unhealthy in the Playoffs?

[exstatic]

That is a valid question. He hsan't been,maybe he's overdue now?

Should the Spurs be willing to bet that Bynum will be unhealthy in the Playoffs?

No, but I might drop 100K on a vBookie. :)

[Mel_13]

So, Thomas is a throwaway? His QO is $6.25M. Between that and Salmons $5.8M, signing Manu is unlikely, not to mention Splitter. I think Mason may not be retained, anyway, so I factored that in already.

RJ is fucking up our cap.

The decision on Thomas belongs to the team. The way I look at it, the Spurs will be paying some new big somewhere in the neighborhood of the MLE next year. Personally, I hope that big is Splitter. Thomas could be a fallback. The Spurs don't have to tender the QO in order to negotiate with him, the QO only makes him a restricted FA. They could also tender the QO and then withdraw it up to a date about two weeks after the moratorium ends in July.

With regard to the wings, only RJ and Hairston are under contract. Even if Manu is resigned, I believe that the Spurs will try to keep Mason rather than filling out the rest of rotation with rookies and minimum contracts. That's why I think Salmons for 1 year at a slightly higher salary than Mason would require is a good option to fill a slot in the wing rotation next year.

I just don't see much downside risk to acquiring Thomas and Salmons for the expiring contracts. I definitely wouldn't give up Splitter's rights to make it happen. I probably wouldn't give up the 2010 first rounder either, but I don't know enough about the depth of this year's draft to be sure.

[Blackjack]

Mel's on point, as usual.:tu

Regardless of what you think of Thomas and Salmons (how much they'd help this year or next), there just isn't a downside to acquiring them when put in the proper perspective.

As for giving up Splitter or a first-rounder? I wouldn't give up Splitter in this particular trade and, depending on the willingness to pay a first-round pick next year, I wouldn't want to part with next year's pick; I could be convinced, however, if Splitter's believed to be coming over and/or Thomas is deemed worthy of having his contract picked up. (that's essentially your pick next year)

[Blackjack]

Harrington to Bulls back in the rumor fires as NBA trade deadline approaches (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/harrington-to-bulls-back-in-the-rumor-fires-as-nba-trade-deadline-approaches.php)

By Matt Moore

The Tyrus Thomas to New York rumors were thought dead as time went on, but Ken Berger of CBSSports.com is reporting the deal (http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/20058193?source=rss_blogs_NBA) is experiencing a 'Thriller' like revival, with the same pieces in place. Al Harrington provides a two-birds, one-stone combination for the Bulls. His scoring ability at the forward position may not be rife with down-low ability, but for an offense that occasionally borders on apoplectic, he's still sorely needed. And his expiring contract aids in their pursuit of the top-line free agents.

For the Knicks it means more salary dump and a promising young forward with hyper-athleticism to slot into D'Antoni's system. While Thomas' offensive fluency isn't exactly staggering, he's also less of a freezer point than Harrington. His option to opt-in might be considered a negative to some Knicks' fans, but with the team without its first round draft pick (owned by Utah, thanks, Isiah!), this could indicate the Knicks are realizing they're not as big a player this summer as we/they thought.

The Bulls meanwhile would have considerable depth at the forward position as well as a lot more flexibility. Brad Miller gives them scoring ability and a pinch post set that Vinny Del Negro loves to run into the ground, but isn't terribly effective. The addition of Harrington would mean that with either Noah or Gibson on the floor, there would be a scoring threat in the 4-5 spots on the floor. Harrington's defense would be the issue, but then, the expiring contract probably makes up for any gap there

[Obstructed_View]

Should the Spurs be willing to bet that Bynum will be unhealthy in the Playoffs?

Given their unwillingness to give Ratliff or Mahinmi any burn, it seems apparent that's exactly what they're doing.

[tdunk21]

all signs point to spurs not makin a trade before deadline......pop is one stubborn mofo....this is what pisses me off...no effort in games played and no effort in exploring new options......

[TJastal]

The decision on Thomas belongs to the team. The way I look at it, the Spurs will be paying some new big somewhere in the neighborhood of the MLE next year. Personally, I hope that big is Splitter. Thomas could be a fallback. The Spurs don't have to tender the QO in order to negotiate with him, the QO only makes him a restricted FA. They could also tender the QO and then withdraw it up to a date about two weeks after the moratorium ends in July.

With regard to the wings, only RJ and Hairston are under contract. Even if Manu is resigned, I believe that the Spurs will try to keep Mason rather than filling out the rest of rotation with rookies and minimum contracts. That's why I think Salmons for 1 year at a slightly higher salary than Mason would require is a good option to fill a slot in the wing rotation next year.

I just don't see much downside risk to acquiring Thomas and Salmons for the expiring contracts. I definitely wouldn't give up Splitter's rights to make it happen. I probably wouldn't give up the 2010 first rounder either, but I don't know enough about the depth of this year's draft to be sure.

I really question why spurs fans are so adamant as to not want to at least get some value for Splitter in a deal this year. IMO the spurs need the help right now and hoping Splitter pans out in 5 years is not going to help now. Splitter is at best a long shot and FAR from the "sure thing" he is being hyped up to be by his supporters in this forum. He is at best (IMO) a decent and serviceable big man in the euroleauge, but that isn't going to translate to much in the nba.

http://www.euroleague.net/uleb/domestic-leagues/domestic-leagues-2008-2009/spain/i/44753/2479/spanish-king-s-cup-final-february-22-2009?lang=en&itemid=44753&mid=2479&tabid=799&itemname=Spanish%20King's%20Cup%20final:%20Februar y%2022,%202009

Here's the latest installment of the Splitter saga. Not that impressive really. Splitter didn't do squat and luckily for Tau Pete Mickael stepped up his game in the absence of Splitter who had fouled out and was a non-factor.

Yep, I said Pete Mickael, drafted 58th by the mavs (58th is the dead last pick in the draft btw) in the year 2000.

And Tau let Marcus Haislip score 23 points. What does that say about Splitter's defense? :lol

Splitter is right where he should be, in the Euroleague.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pop thinks this year's Spurs team will be like 2007's.

Maybe there won't be a trade after all.

[duncan228]

Duncan says he doesn't expect anything to happen in his post All-Star game interview.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/100214_duncan.html

[Mel_13]

I really question why spurs fans are so adamant as to not want to at least get some value for Splitter in a deal this year.

Splitter's rights are a team asset. I have no problem attaching a value to that asset and using it in a transaction to improve the team. I don't believe using that asset to tip the balance in the trade discussed here makes sense for the team. You apparently believe otherwise. OK.