Spurs interested in Bulls' Thomas?

[timvp]

Back in the olden days, I could never have fathomed a day in which Spurs fans complained about the team only having four championships.

:smchode:

[venitian navigator]

I'm a fan of Spurs since the '80s and I always hoped that one day my favourite team would have won one title...It happended four times till now.
I'm incredibly happy it happened...but, in any case, I'll always hope for the better...winning has a good taste!

[ElNono]

Back in the olden days, I could never have fathomed a day in which Spurs fans complained about the team only having four championships.

Did you fathom the team getting the best PF to ever play the game and him playing his entire career with the Spurs back then?

No phun intended, BTW. Honest question.

[TJastal]

Back in the olden days, I could never have fathomed a day in which Spurs fans complained about the team only having four championships.

:smchode:

Well the spurs did get squeeze 4 championships out of the player of the decade and probably a top 10 player of all time when all is said and done.

Not bad, but many would say a champion is not a true champion until they defend their title. And I happen to agree with this, and the spurs had plenty of opportunities to defend titles, but the F.O. was always complacent and inactive, only becoming proactive once they failed to defend their title.

[timvp]

Did you fathom the team getting the best PF to ever play the game and him playing his entire career with the Spurs back then?

No phun intended, BTW. Honest question.

The Spurs rarely failed to have star players. Historically, the Spurs have enjoyed an incredible amount of talent. But, as longtime Spurs fans can tell you, talent does not mean championships.

[timvp]

Not bad, but many would say a champion is not a true champion until they defend their title. And I happen to agree with this

:lmao

Spoiled azz Spurs fans.

[dbestpro]

Back in the olden days, I could never have fathomed a day in which Spurs fans complained about the team only having four championships.

:smchode:

I am incredibly happy that we have won 4 titles, but as every good fan I am never satisfied. Boston and LA want more too. Its the nature of sports.

[Spurminator]

Not bad, but many would say a champion is not a true champion until they defend their title.

I think those people are confusing the word "true" with the word "repeat". I'm not sure why this happens, perhaps it's a translation issue... Anyway, people who aren't morons would say a true Champion is one who wins a Championship.

[timvp]

I am incredibly happy that we have won 4 titles, but as every good fan I am never satisfied. Boston and LA want more too. Its the nature of sports.

Going forward, obviously championships are the goal. I'm for any move that increases championship odds. But to be a Spurs fan and be disappointed with "only four championships" is comical.

[timvp]

I think those people are confusing the word "true" with the word "repeat". I'm not sure why this happens, perhaps it's a translation issue... Anyway, people who aren't morons would say a true Champion is one who wins a Championship.

:lol Well said.

[ElNono]

The Spurs rarely failed to have star players. Historically, the Spurs have enjoyed an incredible amount of talent. But, as longtime Spurs fans can tell you, talent does not mean championships.

Thanks... just looking for another perspective.

I'm very thankful for what we have. I'm actually thrilled I was alive to witness it all. There's fans out there that cheer for their teams and never got rewarded (ahem, Mavfan).

[TJastal]

Going forward, obviously championships are the goal. I'm for any move that increases championship odds. But to be a Spurs fan and be disappointed with "only four championships" is comical.

When you have a top 10 player of all time I think that is par for the course actually.

5-6 championships with a few back to backs were defenitely easily attainable in the Duncan era with a little more support from the F.O.

[lurker23]

Going forward, obviously championships are the goal. I'm for any move that increases championship odds. But to be a Spurs fan and be disappointed with "only four championships" is comical.

To be a fan of any team in any sport and be disappointed with "only four championships" is to be truly spoiled. There are so many fans who would give up a favorite appendage just to see one championship from their favorite team in their lifetime.

[dbestpro]

Going forward, obviously championships are the goal. I'm for any move that increases championship odds. But to be a Spurs fan and be disappointed with "only four championships" is comical.

Maybe if more teams could win championships then maybe they would seem to mean more for those who have already won. It often looks like it is just a big frat club headed by Boston and LA followed by SA, Chicago, Detroit, Houston and pup Miami. I think we often find ourselves comparing our team with the other frat members and ignoring the rest of the NBA. So, from that persepctive 4 is not enough.

[timvp]

When you have a top 10 player of all time I think that is par for the course actually.

5-6 championships with a few back to backs were defenitely easily attainable in the Duncan era with a little more support from the F.O.

The previous two "best power forwards of all time" had zero championship rings in 34 seasons. And you think par for Duncan's career is 5 or 6 championships in 12 seasons?

GTFO of here. :lol

[TJastal]

To be a fan of any team in any sport and be disappointed with "only four championships" is to be truly spoiled. There are so many fans who would give up a favorite appendage just to see one championship from their favorite team in their lifetime.

And if they happened to luck into drafting a top 10 player of all time do you think they would be satisfied with 1 championship in the 15 years of that players' career?

[timvp]

And if they happened to luck into drafting a top 10 player of all time do you think they would be satisfied with 1 championship in the 15 years of that players' career?

Jazz fan would sacrifice an appendage for one championship trophy ... and they arguably had the best PF and best PG of all-time playing at the same time.

[TJastal]

The previous two "best power forwards of all time" had zero championship rings in 34 seasons. And you think par for Duncan's career is 5 or 6 championships in 12 seasons?

GTFO of here. :lol

I said 4 was par for the course. 5-6 with a back to back "repeat" title would have been the home run ball for me.

Can you honestly say you feel "good" about being par for the course?

[lurker23]

And if they happened to luck into drafting a top 10 player of all time do you think they would be satisfied with 1 championship in the 15 years of that players' career?

Given their success thus far, the troubles putting together a complete team, and the truth of the NBA business including free agency, do you think Cavs fans would be happy with one championship in LeBron's career there?


I'm going with yes.

[benefactor]

I said 4 was par for the course. 5-6 with a back to back "repeat" title would have been the home run ball for me.

Can you honestly say you feel "good" about being par for the course?
Lord..this gets more hilarious by the minute.

[timvp]

Can you honestly say you feel "good" about being par for the course?

Do I feel good about four championships? Uh, yes, very much so.

Duncan has more championships than Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit combined ... and those are very likely the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best power forwards of all-time.

Perspective, get some.

[Pentagruel]

Four championships in an exceptional achievement. To say its not is simply ridiculous. To say that spending more money during the Duncan era would have garnered more championships is equally stupid. Spending money does not equate to winning. Who is to say acquiring a big name player wouldn't have hindered our chances (similar to Jefferson right now) to win.

No doubt I will always want to have more titles, but having four within Duncans career is not "par for the course". There are tons of phenomenal players with less or NO championships.

[Agloco]

i do not understand the LOVE for Tyrus Thomas? he's unproven, a headcase, and unpredictable. why does everyone think he's a sure thing to fit here?

we tried that before, his name is Richard Jefferson.

RJ is unproven, unpredictable and a headcase?

[SenorSpur]

A little perspective here.

We can all wonder and we can all speculate, but all of us should be most appreciative of the stability and success the Spurs organization has had.

I've been a fan since Day 1 inception and I can tell you the Spurs have not always been this model of consistency. Of course this was back in the dark days. I never thought I'd ever see even one title in my lifetime.

Even if there are indeed some lean times are ahead, let's take a pause for the cause and give credit to the organization for 20-year run of perennial success that has produced 4 championships. :lobt2:

[mudyez]

A little perspective here.

We can all wonder and we can all speculate, but all of us should be most appreciative of the stability and success the Spurs organization has had.

I've been a fan since Day 1 inception and I can tell you the Spurs have not always been this model of consistency. Of course this was back in the dark days. I never thought I'd ever see even one title in my lifetime.

Even if there are indeed some lean times are ahead, let's take a pause for the cause and give credit to the organization for 20-year run of perennial success that has produced 4 championships. :lobt2:

true words!
I'm prepared for darker times...especially with an organisation like ours!

[Obstructed_View]

Back in the olden days, I could never have fathomed a day in which Spurs fans complained about the team only having four championships.

:smchode:

Back in the olden days, I never could have fathomed fans shouting down those who point out a coach's poor decisions by pointing to the number of championships his teams have won. The "Spoiled Fan" argument, which focuses on past team success, has no place in a discussion of the mistakes of a team that has had trouble winning much of anything this year.

[Agloco]

I said 4 was par for the course. 5-6 with a back to back "repeat" title would have been the home run ball for me.

Can you honestly say you feel "good" about being par for the course?


The previous two "best power forwards of all time" had zero championship rings in 34 seasons. And you think par for Duncan's career is 5 or 6 championships in 12 seasons?

GTFO of here. :lol


Given their success thus far, the troubles putting together a complete team, and the truth of the NBA business including free agency, do you think Cavs fans would be happy with one championship in LeBron's career there?


I'm going with yes.


Lord..this gets more hilarious by the minute.


Do I feel good about four championships? Uh, yes, very much so.

Duncan has more championships than Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit combined ... and those are very likely the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best power forwards of all-time.

Perspective, get some.


Four championships in an exceptional achievement. To say its not is simply ridiculous. To say that spending more money during the Duncan era would have garnered more championships is equally stupid. Spending money does not equate to winning. Who is to say acquiring a big name player wouldn't have hindered our chances (similar to Jefferson right now) to win.

No doubt I will always want to have more titles, but having four within Duncans career is not "par for the course". There are tons of phenomenal players with less or NO championships.

:lol

Just par for TJastal's course that is.......

Buffoonery at it's best.

[Mel_13]

A little perspective here.

We can all wonder and we can all speculate, but all of us should be most appreciative of the stability and success the Spurs organization has had.

I've been a fan since Day 1 inception and I can tell you the Spurs have not always been this model of consistency. Of course this was back in the dark days. I never thought I'd ever see even one title in my lifetime.

Even if there are indeed some lean times are ahead, let's take a pause for the cause and give credit to the organization for 20-year run of perennial success that has produced 4 championships. :lobt2:

Great post. Well said.

[TJastal]

Do I feel good about four championships? Uh, yes, very much so.

Duncan has more championships than Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit combined ... and those are very likely the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best power forwards of all-time.

Perspective, get some.

Duncan is on another level from those players as far as leaders, IMO. Those are top 50 players and in many ways equal to be Duncan in talent to be sure, but it takes a true leader to become a top 10 player that Duncan is.

Even the normally quiet Duncan228 expressed a bit of dissappointment that this organization might have left a championship on the table.

[Agloco]

Don't give the man sympathy.

He had an opportunity to take on contracts from 2003-2009, but he chose the cheap route.

Yes I know Spurs still managed to win 3 Titles during the 5 years (2003-2007), but had Holt took on contracts then instead of now, Spurs would have probably three peated or won 4-6 titles during that time.

Instead he chose to wait til Tim and Manu were passed their prime to finally break the bank.

Deals like RJ non-withstanding right? :rolleyes

I'm not sure how anyone can say anything like this. It's a purely emotional response to the situation. Most always, it's much easier to tell others what they should have done with their time and/or money in hindsight.

[Agloco]

Duncan is on another level from those players as far as leaders, IMO. Those are top 50 players and in many ways equal to be Duncan in talent to be sure, but it takes a true leader to become a top 10 player that Duncan is.

Even the normally quiet Duncan228 expressed a bit of dissappointment that this organization might have left a championship on the table.

It's natural to feel that your organization could have done more. I think where you fail is when you call 4 championships "par for the course". That's just silly.

[TJastal]

Deals like RJ non-withstanding right? :rolleyes

I'm not sure how anyone can say anything like this. It's a purely emotional response to the situation. Most always, it's much easier to tell others what they should have done with their time and/or money in hindsight.

Well it's pretty clear that the spurs always sat on their hands after a championship run instead of raising the bar (good term btw).

And it's also pretty clear that is the reason they never managed even one repeat title.

[TJastal]

It's natural to feel that your organization could have done more. I think where you fail is when you call 4 championships "par for the course". That's just silly.

25 years from now they will be talking about the great Tim Duncan like we now talk about Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

There's your perspective.

[Obstructed_View]

Glad this thread has gotten derailed into a discussion of the past instead of talking about what they need to do this season. Maybe we can finally win that 06 title.

[TJastal]

Glad this thread has gotten derailed into a discussion of the past instead of talking about what they need to do this season. Maybe we can finally win that 06 title.

:lol

[Agloco]

Well it's pretty clear that the spurs always sat on their hands after a championship run instead of raising the bar (good term btw).

And it's also pretty clear that is the reason they never managed even one repeat title.

And that matters because?

Ever since the Lakers repeated in 87-88, everyone's gotten on this bandwagon of thinking that it's the norm, that your team is in some way a failure for not having done it in consecutive years.

It's bullshit. Just ask Karl Malone or Charles Barkley, or anyone else who hasn't won a single ring, let alone 4.

[TJastal]

And that matters because?

Ever since the Lakers repeated in 87-88, everyone's gotten on this bandwagon of thinking that it's the norm, that your team is in some way a failure for not having done it in consecutive years.

It's bullshit. Just ask Karl Malone or Charles Barkley, or anyone else who hasn't won a single ring, let alone 4.

Don't get your panties in a wad just because it's true.

[Agloco]

25 years from now they will be talking about the great Tim Duncan like we now talk about Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

There's your perspective.

Even though his organization didn't go balls to the wall to get him 7 rings instead of 4? Surely you jest.

[Agloco]

Glad this thread has gotten derailed into a discussion of the past instead of talking about what they need to do this season. Maybe we can finally win that 06 title.

They won't do anything this season, trade or otherwise. :lol Might as well shoot the shit right?

J/K....I'm back on topic as of now.

[timvp]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

[AFBlue]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

It's possible, but I think if the Spurs wanted to keep both Manu and Salmons, they have enough flexibility with large expiring contracts (RJ and Dice) to create the necessary space via trade.

I also don't see how Salmons' contract is an issue, given that he essentially replaces Mason & Fin...only he's a more complete all-around player. If Holt has already committed to paying lux tax, I think it's a no-brainer.

Caveat: It isn't my money.

[AFBlue]

The other benefit of having Salmons is in the situation where both Mason and Fin get traded before the deadline. Are we really going to rely on Bogans and Hairston to back up Hill and Manu?

Salmons allows the Spurs to still compete this year and gives them some flexibility in case Manu leaves willingly in the off-season.

[lurker23]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

I think if the Spurs win the Thomas sweepstakes, they'll probably have to take on Salmons. Some of the other offers I've heard concerning picks and talent are better than what I'd want the Spurs to offer, unless the Bulls are really enamored with Mason/Bonner.

It is a fairly sticky scenario money-wise, though. Excluding Ginobili, I can't imagine the Spurs would have used Bird Rights on existing players to resign anyone for more than a total of $2-4 million. Thomas/Salmons would cost $6-12 million next year.

[lmbebo]

I would prefer Salmons just because he gives a solid SG/SF. Pargo would be great off of the bench too though. Not sure if he's playing like he did that one year in New Orleans..

I guess we still wait to see what Houston does with T-mac?

[AFBlue]

I think if the Spurs win the Thomas sweepstakes, they'll probably have to take on Salmons. Some of the other offers I've heard concerning picks and talent are better than what I'd want the Spurs to offer, unless the Bulls are really enamored with Mason/Bonner.

It is a fairly sticky scenario money-wise, though. Excluding Ginobili, I can't imagine the Spurs would have used Bird Rights on existing players to resign anyone for more than a total of $2-4 million. Thomas/Salmons would cost $6-12 million next year.

I think it's pretty clear Mason isn't coming back and I'm almost postive Finley would retire...but don't you have to replace them with one or two players?

And if you're replacing them, you're probably not going to use the MLE, since you're targeting Splitter for most of it.

That means the Spurs scour the bottom of the pool to find veteran LLE or min types to backfill that production. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it probably doesn't put them closer to a championship.

I know Salmons is a risk, but he's definitely a higher calibur of player than what you're going to get if you go the other direction.

[mudyez]

I dont like thomas and I cant see a szenario, where we get back in serieous title contention...that said, I like the idea of getting thomas in hope he will be rejuvinated, forming a nice 3-some with Hill and Blair once we are done with Timmy and co.

will it bring us a 5th ship? NO
will it be worth watching, while getting Timmy some playff runs to round out his legacy? YES

[lurker23]

I think it's pretty clear Mason isn't coming back and I'm almost postive Finley would retire...but don't you have to replace them with one or two players?

And if you're replacing them, you're probably not going to use the MLE, since you're targeting Splitter for most of it.

That means the Spurs scour the bottom of the pool to find veteran LLE or min types to backfill that production. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it probably doesn't put them closer to a championship.

I know Salmons is a risk, but he's definitely a higher calibur of player than what you're going to get if you go the other direction.

I agree, there's basically zero doubt that talent-wise Thomas/Salmons is better than anything the Spurs could get involving resigning Bonner plus minimum/LLE talent. However, it's the financials that many of us are worried about. I'll put together a brief financial summary of this trade here in a second.

[EricB]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.


Salmons as imo it improves the defense on the perimiter..

[MaNu4Tres]

If Rockets go to the Knicks to deal McGrady, Spurs might be able to get Chicago to give up their 1st round pick in compensation for Spurs taking on Salmons' salary even if Thomas is included in the deal. That's if Spurs play their cards right and tell them their priority is to use that money to resign Manu. And make in known they don't have an interest in Salmons ( even if they really do).

That is if Chicago is that desperate to clear roughly 6 million off the books for the most anticipated summer since 2000.

24 hours and 29 minutes and counting.....

[TJastal]

If Rockets go to the Knicks to deal McGrady, Spurs might be able to get Chicago to give up their 1st round pick in compensation for Spurs taking on Salmons' salary even if Thomas is included in the deal. That's if Spurs play their cards right and tell them their priority is to use that money to resign Manu. And make in known they don't have an interest in Salmons ( even if they really do).

That is if Chicago is that desperate to clear roughly 6 million off the books for the most anticipated summer since 2000.

24 hours and 29 minutes and counting.....

Weren't you the guy that totally nailed the RJ trade before it even happened?

[EricB]

Yeah if you can get talents like Thomas and Salmons and are able to somehow keep Manu and use the MLE on Splitter, this year and next looks MILES better.

If your able to get Thomas and flip McDyess, I wonder if that improves the chances of keeping Manu.

[lurker23]

Just for what it's worth, here are salaries for next year if Spurs do a Thomas/Salmons for expirings trade:

Duncan: $18,835,381
Jefferson: $15,200,000
Parker: $13,650,000
Thomas: $6,256,806 (this is the qualifying offer amount; I think the most likely scenario is that the Spurs offer him the QO (if they like him enough), Thomas is unable to find a better offer, and takes the QO, unless he wants the stability of a 3-5 year deal)
Salmons: $5,808,000
McDyess: $4,860,000
Hill: complicated, but ~ $1,000,000
Blair: $918,000
Hairston: $854,389

Total: ~$67,000,000 for 9 players

Then, do the Spurs feel they can afford to resign Manu for $6-8 million and Splitter for $3-5 million, plus 2-4 other minimum-type players? Hard to say. Best guess estimates would put that payroll at about $82 million, which is more than this year, plus with more luxury tax.

As a few have mentioned, this would likely yield trading RJ and/or McDyess and/or others, but there's only so much you can trim off the payroll that way.

[CGD]

Yeah if you can get talents like Thomas and Salmons and are able to somehow keep Manu and use the MLE on Splitter, this year and next looks MILES better.

If your able to get Thomas and flip McDyess, I wonder if that improves the chances of keeping Manu.

I almost think your have to...

[dbestpro]

My bet is that Houston bites on the Chicago deal if for no other reason than it might derail the Spurs a bit. All things being equal in the Houston trade between Ny and Chicago, I see them going with Chicago.

[FvckMavs]

My bet is that Houston bites on the Chicago deal if for no other reason than it might derail the Spurs a bit. All things being equal in the Houston trade between Ny and Chicago, I see them going with Chicago.

they won't get a first round from Chicago.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah if you can get talents like Thomas and Salmons and are able to somehow keep Manu and use the MLE on Splitter, this year and next looks MILES better.

If your able to get Thomas and flip McDyess, I wonder if that improves the chances of keeping Manu.

The only way Manu stays here, is if he's willing to take a paycut. It's that simple.

Being that it's his last lucrative contract of his life makes me believe he will take the bigger offer as long as that team is in playoff contention.

I have sources through a team that has made me aware their front office would be willing to offer Manu around 9-11 million a year this summer.

I doubt Spurs offer that.

The only way I can see Spurs matching that offer is if Manu goes 05' on everyone and helps lead us to the Finals or deep in the WCF.

[Flux451]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.


Good point.

I think I would prefer Pargo. Not just because of contract issues, but if either pg's on Spurs were hurt he would be a great back up. I don't think Spurs should have to rely on Manu or Tony/Hill, depending on IR, to run all the PG duties. He has a scorer's mentality that needs to be controlled at times for sure, but would be an evident spark. I have a feeling he would play well with RJ too. .35 from 3pt is pretty decent, but I think the way he pushed the ball with Hornets would compliment certain players on our squad in a way Hill/TP can't.

I am mentally scarred with him hogging the ball in the 4th which lead to our win against HOrnets in the playoffs...don't remember which game. But I can get over it that.

[AFBlue]

I agree, there's basically zero doubt that talent-wise Thomas/Salmons is better than anything the Spurs could get involving resigning Bonner plus minimum/LLE talent. However, it's the financials that many of us are worried about. I'll put together a brief financial summary of this trade here in a second.

Your breakdown is much appreciated, and I understand that with normal salary growth (player raises) and expected use of MLE, it puts the overall team salary at or above where it is currently.

I guess I'm saying two things:

1) Owner committed to spending last year and if it means putting a championship-level team out there again next year, he's likely to commit again.

2) Spurs have opportunity to lower that overall team salary before lux taxes are assessed by flipping RJ and/or McDyess for smaller contracts.

I understand there is risk...but IMO, it's justified. Again, with the standard caveat that it's not my money.

[lurker23]

Just for what it's worth, here are salaries for next year if Spurs do a Thomas/Salmons for expirings trade:

...

Total: ~$67,000,000 for 9 players

Then, do the Spurs feel they can afford to resign Manu for $6-8 million and Splitter for $3-5 million, plus 2-4 other minimum-type players? Hard to say. Best guess estimates would put that payroll at about $82 million, which is more than this year, plus with more luxury tax.

As a few have mentioned, this would likely yield trading RJ and/or McDyess and/or others, but there's only so much you can trim off the payroll that way.

As others have said, if they flip McDyess for expirings preceding the Thomas trade, that takes that first number up there down to ~$62 million for 8 players, and lowers my best guess down to $78 million, which may be palatable.

That would leave the lineup roughly like:

Parker/minimum or draft PG
Hill/Manu/Salmons
Jefferson/Hairston
Duncan/Thomas
Splitter/Blair

[CGD]

Like I mentioned earlier, maybe the most value the Spurs are going to get from moving RMJ is a trade exception.

Salmons is a non-starter if you favor keeping Manu and bring in Splitter. Hopefully the Knicks win the Tmac sweepstakes thereby forcing the Bulls' hand somewhat.

[EricB]

Like I mentioned earlier, maybe the most value the Spurs are going to get from moving RMJ is a trade exception.

Salmons is a non-starter if you favor keeping Manu and bring in Splitter. Hopefully the Knicks win the Tmac sweepstakes thereby forcing the Bulls' hand somewhat.

Salmons would become the best shooting guard on the team if he was brought in.

[SenorSpur]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

The bottom line is that Salmons is clearly the better player over Pargo. He simply has better all-around skills.

[lmbebo]

I dont know where I read the david aldrige interview (project spurs?)

Said length might be an issue with the extension. I think spurs have no problem extending him for 2 years, but anymore is an issue.

I think getting Salmons helps soften that blow possibly. He in no way can replace what Ginobli has meant to this team. I can't imagine Ginobli wearing anything else but Silver and Black. But we might have no choice in the mater.

I think the organization is looking to either add young pieces to move forward with or established vets whose contracts are done with when Timmys is done.

[timvp]

Who would do this trade?

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7180/tythomas.jpg

And would you do it if you had to give Denver a first round pick on top of McDyess for them to eat his contract?

[nkdlunch]

can't see that ESPN page. what is the trade?

[MaNu4Tres]

Salmons would become the best shooting guard on the team if he was brought in.


I think Salmons would start too.

Hill would run 10-15 minutes at back up point and 10-20 minutes at the wing.

[timvp]

can't see that ESPN page. what is the trade?

I put a screen cap now.

[TJastal]

The bottom line is that Salmons is clearly the better player over Pargo. He simply has better all-around skills.

Pargo duplicates what Hill does, and doesn't have near the defense or penetration that Hill does. He would be useless.

Salmons is a Finley sized SF that can actually play on both sides of the ball and kind of resembles the Finley of 10-15 years ago.

[EricB]

Interesting.

A Carter would be a decent backup point.

Salmons and Thomas starters.

Petro would get bought out and told goodbye.

Grahm and Allen, dunno what the hell they would do.

A 2011 draft pick? yeah, not a 2010 though.

[TJastal]

Who would do this trade?

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7180/tythomas.jpg

And would you do it if you had to give Denver a first round pick on top of McDyess for them to eat his contract?

I would do that trade w/ the pick included.

[EricB]

Thats a very interesting trade if it were to be done. Im about 60% in favor of it.

[Flux451]

Graham on Artest. ha ha.

I would hate for Ian to leave before giving him a decent chance...good question.

I say no

[nkdlunch]

can't see the screenshot what is the trade? :)

[lmbebo]

ditto. Don't see the trade at all.

[FvckMavs]

Who would do this trade?

And would you do it if you had to give Denver a first round pick on top of McDyess for them to eat his contract?

If Denver really like Dice, they may do it even without the first round pick.

[scottspurs]

Who would do this trade?

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7180/tythomas.jpg

And would you do it if you had to give Denver a first round pick on top of McDyess for them to eat his contract?

I don't think we can trade this year's first round pick, but I would say yes to trading the 2011 pick. If it was alright with Peter Holt though I would much rather go after Randolph and Maggette.

[ace3g]

Stalled potential puts Bulls' Thomas at another crossroad

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2010/news/features/steve_aschburner/02/17/thomas/thomas608.jpg

Potential, an NBA head coach once told me, can get you fired.

As wonderful and enticing as it appears, a bundle of skills, physical prowess and projected development often can lead nowhere. Untapped upside often ends up being simply a big tease. Or in this case, big Ts. As in Tyrus Thomas.

Thomas' dance card has been filled like no other's as the league trading deadline approaches. It's been almost a push, where listing the teams that aren't open to the idea of adding the Chicago Bulls' potent and problematic forward is simpler than listing those that are.

Why so many possible suitors? Potential.

That word packs a punch in Thomas' case. Nearly four years after the Bulls gambled on Thomas' potential, it holds more curse than promise.

"We have good character guys,'' Bulls coach Vinny Del Negro said the other day. "They understand the business part of it. Like I always said, if their name is in rumors, that means teams want them. And that's a good thing for a player.''

Good thing for a player? Maybe. As long as there is someone willing to take on his $4.7 million salary now and/or offer up another multimillion-dollar contract this summer, Thomas needn't worry. Some might argue that Thomas' value in the marketplace is a good thing for the Bulls, too. Even if some of the deals being offered are modest, they are a step up from frustration, distraction and headache, the pieces most in play since Thomas arrived in June 2006.

When the Bulls got Thomas, he and long-gone Viktor Khryapa were worth the Draft rights to LaMarcus Aldridge and a conditional second-round pick. Now, three-plus seasons later, do you think Portland would hit the reset button on that deal? Aldridge is a key part of the Trail Blazers' future, averaging 17.3 points on 49.7 percent shooting, with 8.4 rebounds and two assists (both career highs) in 37.3 minutes a game. He has led Portland in points 14 times, in rebounds 21 times, has scored at least 20 in 21 games and has 18 double-doubles. The 6-foot-11 forward-center has missed seven games since the start of 2007-08, anchoring the frontcourt through the Greg Oden setbacks and other assorted injuries.

Thomas, in his fourth season, is averaging 8.9 points, 6.3 rebounds and 1.2 blocks in 23.4 minutes. The 6-foot-10 Thomas has led Chicago once in points and once in rebounds, with nine games scoring at least 10 points and one double-double. Thomas missed 11 games over the two previous seasons and 24 more so far in 2009-10 -- one to flu-like symptoms, 22 to a left arm fracture and one earlier this month to a team suspension.

Which brings up another stat: The Bulls have taken disciplinary action four times in three seasons with Thomas. That's a symptom of something more vexing than the flu, a frustration within both the player and the team.

Reports of a growing maturity in Thomas' game and demeanor have been, well, premature. Again. After his lackluster performance in Atlanta Feb. 5 -- one shoddy enough to earn him an early benching -- Thomas made a bad night worse with a profanity-laced tirade in Del Negro's office. That earned him the next game off and, most likely, his ticket out of Chicago by Thursday afternoon. No matter how annoyed Thomas was, or misguided the Bulls have been, with his backward progression in playing time (down from 27.5 minutes last season, with only three starts this year), that is the last thing either side needed.

Two young forwards have something of a stake in Thomas' tale. One is Chicago's Taj Gibson, the rookie forward who has taken advantage, through effort and consistency, of the void in the Bulls' rotation opened by Thomas. The other is Miami's Michael Beasley, whose own spotty play since the 2008 Draft has caused some to reevaluate him -- and made the Bulls happy they picked Derrick Rose No. 1 that night.

Both guys were at All-Star Weekend for the Rookie Challenge game and both guys, teammate and opponent, still see Thomas' vast upside. When healthy, Thomas still can run and soar almost effortlessly, and with more diligence close to the basket and less dalliance away from it, has all the tools to be an effective scorer, rebounder and defender.

It's just that his effort is parceled out inconsistently and managed by a temperament that too often gets in the way.

"I really don't know what's going to happen,'' Gibson said. "I know that Tyrus is a great guy. He's good in the locker room. He's still up-and-coming. He's so talented. It's all about Tyrus, how well Tyrus wants to progress. I know that he still has a lot more potential than he shows.''

Gibson wasn't about to lecture a more veteran teammate or compare himself in any way, even if his presence has helped the Bulls during Thomas' latest false starts. "The way things worked out for me, I just stepped up, worked hard,'' the rookie said. "Vinny put me in tough places early in the season, tough situations. I was able to overcome, and things just turned out for the best.''

Beasley noted how young Thomas still is -- after two years at LSU and four in the NBA, he will turn 24 in August -- and how different players develop at different paces. He thinks Thomas could become "another version of Josh Smith,'' mentioning the Atlanta forward who did so much growing up at NBA wages.

"I don't think there ever is a 'too late.' Unless you're 38 years old or on your last couple of years,'' Beasley said. "But guys have waited six, seven years to become All-Stars. Guys like Chauncey Billups or Gilbert Arenas can attest to that.''

Neither Billups nor Arenas were the players they eventually became with their original teams. Looks like Thomas won't be either.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/steve_aschburner/02/17/thomas/index.html?cid=nba.2013

[timvp]

It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.

[EricB]

It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.


I think it sucks to think of dumping McDyess period.

[lurker23]

I've said this before, but: I won't be particularly happy if the Spurs trade away Dice and the major piece they get back is Tyrus Thomas. After running the financials, I kind of get it, but that still doesn't mean I like it. I also get the whole youth movement thing, but it has to be youth that fits, and I'm not entirely sure Thomas does.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a little too HOYA or I'm hanging on to the slim hopes of this season a little too tightly. However, I feel that we're just starting to see glimpses of Dice's potential on this team, and it's going to take a lot of patience from Pop for Thomas to have any kind of impact on the team this year, patience that we haven't really seen recently. Maybe I'm underrating Thomas (and Salmons, for that matter), but the whole Dice for Thomas idea just feels like giving up on this season to me.

[MaNu4Tres]

It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.

I think they'd only have to include the 1st rounder if the team they were trading him to wasn't in contention for a championship.

Team not in contention would only take on his relatively fair contract for the purposes of the 1st rounder. (These teams would value future assets in the trade because of taking on his contract.)

Teams in contention would take on his fair contract for his play. (These teams would value his play NOW in the trade.)

Two different scenarios where McDyess would be valued in a trade from the opposing perspective.

[SenorSpur]

It kinda sucks to think how the Spurs would have to use a first round pick to salary dump McDyess' contract so soon ... but if you factor in making room for Thomas and Salmons financially, it's easier to swallow.

I don't love the deal but it may be the only way to get Ty Thomas and actually keep him without having to pick between Manu and Splitter this offseason.

Perhaps I missed this, but where did you get the information on the Spurs having to burn a 1st round pick along with the McDyess trade?

Frankly, I was hoping the Spurs could nab a 1st round pick from the Rich-n-Creamies, as part of the McDyess trade. After all, weren't they the ones that initially approached the Spurs about a possible McDyess deal?

[DaBears]

Well at this point i would settle for bringing back, Oberto, Kurt thomas, and Bruce the duce Bowen.... I bet while we diffenitly would need EMS and plenty of bengay ointment lying around, with a healthy TD, TP,MG, and the rest of the crew, i am pretty sure we would not be in the same position as the current status.....

[timvp]

Trading away McDyess just for expirings could happen, however I'd classify the chances as unlikely. Teams just aren't jumping at the chance to eat two full years of salary. We could hope, but it's probably not reality.

The way to sweeten up the deal would be to include a first round pick. Even then, it's no guarantee that the Spurs can find a buyer.

[TJastal]

I've said this before, but: I won't be particularly happy if the Spurs trade away Dice and the major piece they get back is Tyrus Thomas. After running the financials, I kind of get it, but that still doesn't mean I like it. I also get the whole youth movement thing, but it has to be youth that fits, and I'm not entirely sure Thomas does.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a little too HOYA or I'm hanging on to the slim hopes of this season a little too tightly. However, I feel that we're just starting to see glimpses of Dice's potential on this team, and it's going to take a lot of patience from Pop for Thomas to have any kind of impact on the team this year, patience that we haven't really seen recently. Maybe I'm underrating both Thomas (and Salmons, for that matter), but the whole Dice for Thomas idea just feels like giving up on this season to me.

I love Dice.. he's been my favorite player so far this year and I'd much prefer a Duncan/Thomas/Dice/Blair rotation, but financially this might be the only way to get some younger talent in here.

[MaNu4Tres]

Trading away McDyess just for expirings could happen, however I'd classify the chances as unlikely. Teams just aren't jumping at the chance to eat two full years of salary. We could hope, but it's probably not reality.

The way to sweeten up the deal would be to include a first round pick. Even then, it's no guarantee that the Spurs can find a buyer.


I think they'd only have to include the 1st rounder if the team they were trading him to wasn't in contention for a championship.

Team not in contention would only take on his relatively fair contract for the purposes of the 1st rounder. (These teams would value future assets in the trade because of taking on his contract.)

Teams in contention would take on his fair contract for his play. (These teams would value his play, improving their team's chances to win the championship.)

Two different scenarios where McDyess would be valued in a trade from the opposing perspective.

[lurker23]

I love Dice.. he's been my favorite player so far this year and I'd much prefer a Duncan/Thomas/Dice/Blair rotation, but financially this might be the only way to get some younger talent in here.

I certainly get that. I guess another part of my worry is that you're only guaranteed to have Thomas through the end of this year. After that, some team could make a big offer on him in restricted free agency due to his potential, and the Spurs might not match. Then what? You have no new youth and you have no McDyess.

[CGD]

Salmons would become the best shooting guard on the team if he was brought in.

I just flat out don't see Holt approving more salary next year. It'll be a very, very tough sell. If I were Holt I would allow RC/Pop to make any move they thought would increase the Spurs' chances of making a deep play-off run THIS year.

RC/Pop owe it to ownership to try to do their best to recover some of their investment, and throwing good money after bad is not the way to do it IMO. Salmon may be "good," but ownership is seeing the same financials we are.

Not to mention that adding more salary only serves to further limit what can be offered to Manu, a fan favorite, and frankly someone who puts butts in seats. If we're gonna lose Manu, we better get more back than effectively Salmons and maybe Splitter. At the very least, we need to keep the cap flexibility for ourselves.

[Bruno]

Spurs have a better chance to win the title this year than next year. Adding a rookie (Splitter) and Blair being more experienced won't offset Duncan and Ginobili being one year older.

Giving up this year just by dumping McDyess is a damn bad idea.

[Mel_13]

Trading away McDyess just for expirings could happen, however I'd classify the chances as unlikely. Teams just aren't jumping at the chance to eat two full years of salary. We could hope, but it's probably not reality.

The way to sweeten up the deal would be to include a first round pick. Even then, it's no guarantee that the Spurs can find a buyer.

The list of teams that would trade expiring contracts for Dice may be completely empty.

Any team that might be on that list has to meet two qualifications:

1. Most obviously, that team must want Dice to play an important role.

2. Dice must be willing to play for that team.

Given Dice's comments after signing with Spurs that it was going to be the Spurs or retirement, it's possible that there may no team that Dice will report to. If that's the case, the Spurs will have to spend a first rounder to get his contract off the books.

[DaBears]

Maybe someone can address if known what is the status of Ian Mahanhi(spelling). He appears to be healthy he is a legit bigman.. Anyone know why pop doesnt throw him a bone.. Give him minutes see what he can do.. I would say if he can get a good stretch run of steady minutes and rotation he might be the Bigman to solve most of our problems.... not all but some.. I mean the guy has shown glimpse's of what he can do, while staying out of foul trouble....

[TJastal]

I certainly get that. I guess another part of my worry is that you're only guaranteed to have Thomas through the end of this year. After that, some team could make a big offer on him in restricted free agency due to his potential, and the Spurs might not match. Then what? You have no new youth and you have no McDyess.

But you still have Salmons at least. And Ian can probably be resigned cheaply and possibly Splitter.

[TJastal]

The list of teams that would trade expiring contracts for Dice may be completely empty.

Any team that might be on that list has to meet two qualifications:

1. Most obviously, that team must want Dice to play an important role.

2. Dice must be willing to play for that team.

Given Dice's comments after signing with Spurs that it was going to be the Spurs or retirement, it's possible that there may no team that Dice will report to. If that's the case, the Spurs will have to spend a first rounder to get his contract off the books.

Meh.

I would be willing to bet that Dice would welcome a return to Denver where it all started for him. And a reunification with Billups.

[Mel_13]

Meh.

I would be willing to bet that Dice would welcome a return to Denver where it all started for him. And a reunification with Billups.

Meh all you like.

That makes one possible team that may be of interest. It's also the team he refused to move to last year when he was traded there WITH Billups at the start of the season.

[AFBlue]

Nevermind...I usually like to think out my posts. Apparently this one didn't make sense.

[CGD]

Like I mentioned earlier, maybe the most value the Spurs are going to get from moving RMJ is a trade exception.

Salmons is a non-starter if you favor keeping Manu and bring in Splitter. Hopefully the Knicks win the Tmac sweepstakes thereby forcing the Bulls' hand somewhat.


Didn't see this posted from Chad Ford yet. (as of Feb. 17 -- 3:09 p.m. ET)


Chad Ford: The Knicks and Rockets spoke Wednesday morning about a potential Tracy McGrady trade. Sources familiar with the negotiations told ESPN.com that although the Knicks told the Rockets they remain interested in acquiring the shooting guard in a deal for Larry Hughes and Jared Jeffries, they are still unwilling to meet all of the Rockets' demands -- cap relief, Jordan Hill, the swapping of 2011 first-round picks and the Knicks' 2012 first-round pick.

"We'd like McGrady and the cap relief," one Knicks source said. "But the Rockets are asking for too much. We're willing to pay a premium to make a deal. But the price right now is still too high."

According to the source, the Rockets are still looking for other partners. The Bulls have been mentioned as a possibility, but sources believe their offer is less attractive than the Knicks' -- even if the Knicks don't give the Rockets everything they're asking for.

[Mel_13]

I don't understand the insistence on flipping Dice for expiring contracts as a pre-requisite to a Thomas/Salmons deal.

The Spurs should have more opportunity next year when his deal essentially becomes an expiring one (assume Spurs kick in cash to cover guaranteed portion of following year).

They can trade Dice next year, but they can't make his salary disappear. Similar sized contracts will come back in a trade. The notion behind trading him for expiring contracts now is to get his salary off the books next year.

I don't think it will happen.

Edit: Didn't see your follow-up. Never mind.

[AFBlue]

They can trade Dice next year, but they can't make his salary disappear. Similar sized contracts will come back in a trade. The notion behind trading him for expiring contracts now is to get his salary off the books next year.

I don't think it will happen.

See updated post.

[TJastal]

Meh all you like.

That makes one possible team that may be of interest. It's also the team he refused to move to last year when he was traded there WITH Billups at the start of the season.

Meh.

I think he thought the pistons still had a legitimate chance for a title back then, and the nuggets at that time sucked ass thx to Iverson.

He has said before he wants to get a ring before he retires well the nuggets of today offer a much better chance.

[timvp]

The list of teams that would trade expiring contracts for Dice may be completely empty.

Any team that might be on that list has to meet two qualifications:

1. Most obviously, that team must want Dice to play an important role.

2. Dice must be willing to play for that team.

Given Dice's comments after signing with Spurs that it was going to be the Spurs or retirement, it's possible that there may no team that Dice will report to. If that's the case, the Spurs will have to spend a first rounder to get his contract off the books.

Yeah, that's basically the reality I came to after doing the research. There's a slight glimmer of hope in Denver and maybe Milwaukee (oddly enough) ... but that's about it.

[TJastal]

Ok, from what I've been reading it was an agreed upon deal for the nuggets to buy out the rest of his contract (6mil) and let him go back to Detroit. Price they were willing to pay in order to make the deal for Billups. So it was probably more the fact that the pistons wanted him back than McDyess refusing to play there.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Yeh it sounds like Dyess and the Nuggets are cool. I was unsure of the reason why he didn't stay in Denver at first. Rumours swirled around saying that he refused to play for Denver but then it came out that it was all about savings.

I'd welcome Dyess in Denver. But what would the Spurs want in return? Expirings?

[Mel_13]

Ok, from what I've been reading it was an agreed upon deal for the nuggets to buy out the rest of his contract (6mil) and let him go back to Detroit. Price they were willing to pay in order to make the deal for Billups. So it was probably more the fact that the pistons wanted him back than McDyess refusing to play there.

Provide a link about a prior arrangement or just stop.

Dice Had 15M remaining on his contract. He took 6M in the buyout and then signed back with Detroit for the minimum. He wanted to stay Detroit and gave up millions to do so.

[TJastal]

Yeh it sounds like Dyess and the Nuggets are cool. I was unsure of the reason why he didn't stay in Denver at first. Rumours swirled around saying that he refused to play for Denver but then it came out that it was all about savings.

I'd welcome Dyess in Denver. But what would the Spurs want in return? Expirings?

Chicago would prob want the expiring deals in order to off load both Thomas and Salmons.

[8FOR!3]

Yeh it sounds like Dyess and the Nuggets are cool. I was unsure of the reason why he didn't stay in Denver at first. Rumours swirled around saying that he refused to play for Denver but then it came out that it was all about savings.

I'd welcome Dyess in Denver. But what would the Spurs want in return? Expirings?

Just give us Melo, we'll throw in Keith Bogan and Michael Finley so you don't lack any depth in the position. ;)

[TJastal]

Provide a link about a prior arrangement or just stop.

Dice Had 15M remaining on his contract. He took 6M in the buyout and then signed back with Detroit for the minimum. He wanted to stay Detroit and gave up millions to do so.

I said it was probably a little bit of both, so I'm not exactly in disagreement here. McDyess (erroneously) thinking his Iverson led-Pistons still had a shot at something and the pistons making a prior arrangement with the nuggets for the buyout and return in order to push the trade through.

Costly as it was, it ended up being a pretty wise move for the nuggets in hindsight.

[Mel_13]

I said it was probably a little bit of both, so I'm not exactly in disagreement here. McDyess (erroneously) thinking his Iverson led-Pistons still had a shot at something and the pistons making a prior arrangement with the nuggets for the buyout and return in order to push the trade through.

Costly as it was, it ended up being a pretty wise move for the nuggets in hindsight.


It definitely worked for Denver. That started the summer of 2008 way over the lux tax with a team that couldn't win a playoff series. They salary dumped Camby for nothing, then lucked into the Iverson trade and bought out Dice for 40% of the remaining value of his contract.

When it was all said and done, they were under the lux tax and had a much better team. Their GM went from idiot to genius in a few months.

[AFBlue]

Back on topic, I'm not sure if I prefer Pargo or Salmons paired with Thomas. Salmons is the better player but his contract could make the Spurs pick between using their MLE and re-signing Manu.

If the Spurs salary-dumped Mason, Pargo would be their only choice given the remaining contracts.

Spurs could do Bonner/Fin/Mahinmi or just Bonner/Fin for Thomas/Pargo. Obviously the Bulls would want a 1st round pick as well.

[CGD]

More insight from the folks at nba.com:

"The Bulls are offering a package believed to include center Brad Miller and swingman John Salmons. Forward Tyrus Thomas may be in the package as well, but many around the league think the Bulls would like to hold him out of this deal and do a separate trade with either San Antonio or Denver for Thomas. The Spurs have coveted Thomas's athletic abilities at the defensive end for more than a year, and have recently told guard Roger Mason they'll try to accommodate his wishes for a trade."

[EricB]

Bring in Brad Miller too.

Miller still has game.

[Spursmania]

This is driving me nuts.:lol

[slick'81]

This is driving me nuts.:lol


just another day and itll all come to light

[AFBlue]

just another day and itll all come to light

New shit has come to light man!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pf5tmPfaEyk/SQlCO8pUtCI/AAAAAAAAAV4/UGlGIripXOk/s400/the_big_lebowski___jeff_bridges1.jpg

Just kidding...it's the same old stuff so far.

[EricB]

Anytime someone refrences the greatness that is the big lebowski I highly support it! :tu

[duncan228]

Rockets Leaning Toward Keeping McGrady (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-rocketsleaningtoward&prov=tsn&type=lgns)
SportingNews

It’s been about eight weeks since the Rockets and used-to-be star guard Tracy McGrady parted ways, with Houston vowing to find a trade for McGrady. Over the last few days, a number of scenarios emerged—the most serious involving the Bulls and Knicks—and reports had McGrady’s departure from Houston seeming imminent.

But on Wednesday, sources told SN that the Rockets are now indicating they are leaning toward not trading McGrady—for now, at least. Houston, apparently, is unhappy with the offers it has gotten from the Bulls and the Knicks, which would involve the Rockets taking on too much long-term salary and not getting enough young assets in return.

The Bulls’ offer, reported in the Chicago Tribune, is the expiring contract of center Brad Miller ($12.3 million), plus forward Tyrus Thomas and either John Salmons or Kirk Hinrich. The Rockets don’t want Salmons, who has a player option for next season, and the remainder of Hinrich’s contract (he’s signed for two years after this season, at $17 million combined) is too hefty for the Rockets. The Bulls have been seeking a third team to make the deal work, but a source told SN that those efforts were not getting very far.

The Knicks’ offer centers on the expiring contract of Larry Hughes ($13.6 million), plus Jared Jeffries and a swap of draft picks. Contrary to reports, a source close to the negotiation has told SN that the Knicks have said they won’t part with rookie big man Jordan Hill in the deal, and if the Bulls are unable to sweeten their offer, the Knicks would have no reason to include him, because they’d be essentially bidding against themselves.

Of course, that’s one reason that Houston may be saying it’s going to pull out of McGrady dealings altogether—it’s a good smoke screen to give the Knicks some incentive to include Hill. If the Knicks are not bidding against the Bulls, the Rockets must make it seem that they’re bidding against something, and no deal at all is at least something. It’s no secret that the Knicks are desperate to unload Jeffries, because they would then be likely to have enough cap space this summer to make max-contract offers to two free agents, upping their chances at getting two of the top three (LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh) players on the market this summer.

McGrady’s expiring contract is worth more than $23 million.

[dbestpro]

just another day and itll all come to light

Either that or it will be time to turn out the lights.

[crc21209]

Damn the Fk'n Rockets if they take Tyrus Thomas from us....but why they would wanna keep T-Mac around for nothing is pretty dumb...

[AFBlue]

Rockets are just trying to play hardball, though they're not really in a great position to do so.

Either way, the reports were that they still favored a Knicks deal anyways...so it shouldn't alter the pursuit of TT by the Spurs.

[DesignatedT]

Rockets are just trying to play hardball, though they're not really in a great position to do so.

Either way, the reports were that they still favored a Knicks deal anyways...so it shouldn't alter the pursuit of TT by the Spurs.


I really dont see the reason why chicago would trade thomas expiring for our expiring, actually that isnt going to happen at all, spurs would have to be willing to take on salmons if this was going to work.

[ace3g]

# WojYahooNBA

"I guess Chicago could emerge again," a source involved in talks told Y! Sports, "but it doesn't look that way now." 1 minutes ago from web

* Reply
* Retweet

# Adrian Wojnarowski WojYahooNBA

Bulls have fallen out of consideration for TMac and Houston focus on negotiating draft pick protection to complete NY deal, sources say.

[AFBlue]

I really dont see the reason why chicago would trade thomas expiring for our expiring, actually that isnt going to happen at all, spurs would have to be willing to take on salmons if this was going to work.

Spurs would have to throw in first round pick or Splitter's rights...but you're probably right. To make this deal make sense the Spurs would probably have to take on Salmons and give up Mason.

[lmbebo]

Per Woj on twitter (on iphone)

Bulls have fallen out of consideration for TMac, Houstin focuses on negotiating draft pick protection to complete NY deal, sources say.

[CGD]

I really dont see the reason why chicago would trade thomas expiring for our expiring, actually that isnt going to happen at all, spurs would have to be willing to take on salmons if this was going to work.

Unless we include a pick, which reportedly the Bulls have been seeking.

[crc21209]

Per Woj on twitter (on iphone)

Bulls have fallen out of consideration for TMac, Houstin focuses on negotiating draft pick protection to complete NY deal, sources say.

I like the sound of the Bulls being out of it now....:tu C'mon Spurs go get TT!

[RiverwalkParade]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64794/20100217/salmons_told_to_stay_at_hotel_bulls_finalizing_tra de/

Salmons told to stay at hotel for pending trade to get wrapped up

[WalterSobchak]

New shit has come to light man!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pf5tmPfaEyk/SQlCO8pUtCI/AAAAAAAAAV4/UGlGIripXOk/s400/the_big_lebowski___jeff_bridges1.jpg

Just kidding...it's the same old stuff so far.


Your being very un-dude. :lmao

[EricB]

More Big Lebowski talk damnt!

[SenorSpur]

I really dont see the reason why chicago would trade thomas expiring for our expiring, actually that isnt going to happen at all, spurs would have to be willing to take on salmons if this was going to work.

Hello!

The Spurs NEED to secure Salmons' services also. With the expiring contracts of Bonner/Mason/Finley, they can get both Thomas and Salmons. He'd be just as crucial to the deal as Thomas, IMHO.

Remember Manu is likely gone this summer and RJ will undoubtedly be traded. The Spurs need a production swingman of Salmons' ilk.

[lmbebo]

TT and Miller are playing tonight.

[Spursmania]

Shit... Guess we get nothing.

[lmbebo]

David Alridge says Salmons is not going to any of the Texas teams. Chatter about a possible 3 way with CLE and WASH?

[TD 21]

Yeah, that's basically the reality I came to after doing the research. There's a slight glimmer of hope in Denver and maybe Milwaukee (oddly enough) ... but that's about it.

The Bobcats are searching for a backup PF; the Spurs, supposedly, are searching for cap relief to facilitate a Thomas trade. Law, Ajinca, Graham and a 2nd round pick for McDyess? Terrible value for the Spurs, but given their supposed intentions, I could see it. It all depends on how much they want Thomas.

As for Salmons, I don't buy for a second (nor have I ever) that the Spurs will take on his salary. It appears they're trying to dump Mason for basically nothing. Great message to send to the big three. In a season where they were supposed to compete for a championship, the organization is interested in dumping the 8th best player on the team for nothing.

[bigdog]

David Alridge says Salmons is not going to any of the Texas teams. Chatter about a possible 3 way with CLE and WASH?

WojYahooNBA-"Cavs get Jamison and Telfair, Clippers get Drew Gooden and Wash gets Illgauskas, Al Thornton and Brian Skinner and Cavs 1st round pick."

[SenorSpur]

Spurs not getting Salmons. This sucks.

Hopefully, they'll have better luck securing Thomas.

[AFBlue]

double post

[AFBlue]

Spurs not getting Salmons. This sucks.

Hopefully, they'll have better luck securing Thomas.

You know this because all of the guys are suiting up for Spurs?

[CGD]

Spurs not getting Salmons. This sucks.

Hopefully, they'll have better luck securing Thomas.

No way. If we can manage to get TT without taking on Salmon's contract that would be a HUGE feat.

[EricB]

Shit... Guess we get nothing.


:lol

Typical Spurstalk overreaction.

[SenorSpur]

No way. If we can manage to get TT without taking on Salmon's contract that would be a HUGE feat.

If it means that any combination of Bonner/Mason/Finley remain on the roster, I'd rather have Salmons included in the Thomas deal. It simply would make the Spurs much better for long haul.

Remember Manu is probably gone this summer and RJ most certainly will be dumped. The Spurs will need another strong wing player, the likes of Salmons.

[EricB]

If it means that any combination of Bonner/Mason/Finley remain on the roster, I'd rather have Salmons included in the Thomas deal. It simply would make the Spurs much better for long haul.

Remember Manu is probably gone this summer and RJ most certainly will be dumped. The Spurs will need another strong wing player, the likes of Salmons.


:lol

He's probobly gone if they get a Salmons yeah, but other than that, he's coming back.

WTF are you smoking?

[SenorSpur]

:lol

He's probobly gone if they get a Salmons yeah, but other than that, he's coming back.

WTF are you smoking?

If you don't think that Manu will be a better offer that will be out of the Spurs range, then you're as dense and your comments.

[ace3g]

I'll let you guys know if TT plays tonight

[EricB]

If you don't think that Manu will be a better offer that will be out of the Spurs range, then you're as dense and your comments.


Oh my.....

[EricB]

I'll let you guys know if TT plays tonight


He's playing tonight.

[ace3g]

He's playing tonight.

they said he will, but so far he hasn't played yet

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2010021718

[EricB]

they said he will, but so far he hasn't played yet

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2010021718

Well, he's dressed :lol

While Salmons is eating Surf and Turf at the hotel on the Bull's dime.

[TimDunkem]

they said he will, but so far he hasn't played yet

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2010021718

:38.5 NY - D. Gallinari makes a 23-foot jumper from the right wing :52.9 CHI - Personal foul on C. Richard 1:01 NY - Kicked ball on T. Thomas 1:05 NY - A. Harrington steals the ball from C. Richard 1:08 CHI - C. Richard offensive rebound 1:09 CHI - T. Thomas misses a free throw

[Mr. Body]

I'm watching NYK-CB right now. Thomas is definitely playing.

[benefactor]

So...is this a go now that Salmons is out of the way(for two bigs)?

[Pistons < Spurs]

KBerg_CBS

Trade Buzz: Harrington-for-Tyrus Thomas "in play." #NBA #Knicks #Bulls http://bit.ly/bB3xEG

[lmbebo]

$%&$%&*$*%

he best not be going to NY...

[Mel_13]

So...is this a go now that Salmons is out of the way(for two bigs)?

They'd have to give up a first rounder to get him now.

[timvp]

The Bulls traded Salmons for expiring contracts. The fact that they are bigmen is a coincidence ... so I doubt it affects their plan regarding Ty Thomas.

[TimDunkem]

I hope the Spurs make a trade regardless of where TT goes.

[Rito3d30]

Its official according to Woj! Salmons for Kurt Thomas and Francisco Elso

hate small ball...Thomas come pls:depressed

[Spurologist]

Its official according to Woj! Salmons for Kurt Thomas and Francisco Elso

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

[EricB]

Wojo is awesome.

[ace3g]

how about now the Spurs make a trade with the Bucks for Salmons

[Rito3d30]

how about now the Spurs make a trade with the Bucks for Salmons

Thomas > Salmons

Salmons = deal breaker

[ace3g]

I still want Thomas, but get them in separate deals now

[Mel_13]

how about now the Spurs make a trade with the Bucks for Salmons

:lol

How Mason for Thomas, straight up

















Kurt Thomas

[HarlemHeat37]

I would never want to deal with the Bucks again anyways..they always find a way to beat us..

[Sean Cagney]

I would never want to deal with the Bucks again anyways..they always find a way to beat us..

Hey we beat them badly twice this year, but they gave us Jefferson :( SHOOT they won again :bang:depressed

[ElNono]

Are we going to make a move??? Shit...

[HarlemHeat37]

It looks like the Thomas deals will come down to..

-Being included in a 3-way with the Rockets-Bulls-Kings..
-Traded to NY in a deal for Al Harrington..
-Traded to the Spurs in a package..

Those are the 3 rumors for him right now, obviously something else could come out of nowhere or the Spurs might be sending out a smokescreen..

[Mr. Body]

Ach, at this point I'd be disappointed he's not a Spur. But he's wildly athletic so it can't really happen. Bad alchemy.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

On the eve of the trade deadline, Donnie Walsh continues working to pin down the final elements of an offer that will land Tracy McGrady and shed the contract of Jared Jeffries.

Simultaneously, Walsh is working to swing a trade with the Bulls for Tyrus Thomas.

Mike D'Antoni may be driving the Knicks' interest in Thomas. The coach is apparently enthralled with the idea of plugging the athletic talents of Thomas into his uptempo system.



Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64809/20100217/walsh_trying_to_finish_t_mac_deal_trade_for_tyrus/#ixzz0fr7Z7VI2

[TD 21]

Ford and Stein are both reporting that multiple league sources are expressing confidence that McGrady to Knicks will happen and Thomas, James for Harrington.

I don't know what the Spurs have offered, but this should have been a no-brainer: '10 1st round pick, Mason, Bonner, Mahinmi for Thomas, Pargo.

Instead, the Knicks, with NO 1st round pick, appear poised to land him for one (albeit big) expiring contract. Unbelievable.

I'm not the least bit surprised. It looks like, barring something unforeseen, they'll be a minor trade involving Mason for something of lesser value or no trade at all.

[SenorSpur]

This was Stein's report as of 5pm EST today

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

Marc Stein
Trade exception could have been used in Mason-to-Miami deal

"The Miami Heat have indeed expressed interest in San Antonio's Roger Mason, but the Miami deal that interested the Spurs most is no longer possible. The Spurs were hoping to tempt Miami into absorbing Mason's $3.8 million expiring contract into a $4.3 million trade exception that would have enabled the teams to complete a deal without San Antonio needing to take back another player. A future second-round pick from the Heat would have completed the transaction. But the Heat, dealing with their own luxury-tax issues like San Antonio and reluctant to add to their payroll, ultimately declined. And the trade exception in question -- created through the departure of Marcus Banks in Miami's Shawn Marion trade with Toronto on Feb. 15, 2009 -- expired Monday at midnight."

[SenorSpur]

Ford and Stein are both reporting that multiple league sources are expressing confidence that McGrady to Knicks will happen and Thomas, James for Harrington.

I don't know what the Spurs have offered, but this should have been a no-brainer: '10 1st round pick, Mason, Bonner, Mahinmi for Thomas, Pargo

Instead, the Knicks, with NO 1st round pick, appear poised to land him for one big expiring contract. Unbelievable.

I'm not the least bit surprised. It looks like, barring something unforeseen, they'll be a minor trade involving Mason for something of lesser value or no trade at all.

This is starting not to look very good for the Spurs. They're drifting to the back of the store, while other teams are checking out at the register.

[Chieflion]

This is starting not to look very good for the Spurs. They're drifting to the back of the store, while other teams are checking out at the register.
You say this as if the Spurs were ever in the store in the 1st place.

[SenorSpur]

You say this as if the Spurs were ever in the store in the 1st place.

:lol

[TD 21]

This is starting not to look very good for the Spurs. They're drifting to the back of the store, while other teams are checking out at the register.

Are you surprised? It's the same shit every year. This franchise has been in a steady decline for longer than most either realize or care to admit, they've needed a big man of Thomas' athleticism for the longest time and yet even though he's seemingly available for so little in return, they're still going to lose out? Unbelievable.

We'll probably never know the exact reason(s), but it's typical Spurs. Probably got worried about his attitude, immaturity, his not fitting in with the "culture" and struggling to "pick up the system" and are about to lose out to a team with less to offer, all because the Knicks were clearly more aggressive in their pursuit of him.

[EricB]

Amazing how people assume what happens when the Spurs don't get a guy.

Again, are they supposed to hold a gun to these team's heads?

[TD 21]

Amazing how people assume what happens when the Spurs don't get a guy.

Again, are they supposed to hold a gun to these team's heads?

No, they're supposed to be fucking aggressive, like every other team that either feels they need to or clearly needs to get something done.

The Spurs have the best package to offer for Thomas, given the suitors, the supposed asking price and what they're seeking, yet we haven't heard one concrete offer yet from them to the Bulls and why? Because they got gun shy. Thomas should have been theirs.

How else are the Spurs going to find that type of player for as little as it likely would have taken to acquire him? They're not going to. This was their chance and they blew it. Don't pull the "Thomas isn't a savior crap" because I never said he was.

[ElNono]

To me, it's interesting you don't hear rumors from other teams pursuing our expirings. Mason is the only one you hear something about after his emo routine. I guess nobody wants Bonner, Finley... Not even for their expiring contracts?

[mosdef17]

Knicks making a late surge for Tyrus, centered around Al Harrington...

[ElNono]

Unless the Spurs are reluctant to move them... You know, losing more 'corporate knowledge' and what not...

[5in10]

TT at least would have given us something to be excited about the rest of the season.

[TD 21]

Unless the Spurs are reluctant to move them... You know, losing more 'corporate knowledge' and what not...

What corporate knowledge? There is none! That left with Bowen, Horry, Barry, Oberto, etc. The Spurs are never going to get that back in the Duncan-era. The need to stop trying to force a new team into being something it's not.

Pop preaches defense, then plays ridiculous lineups that have no chance at being successful defensively. Even if they played proper lineups, they still don't have the tools to be as good defensively as he wants them to be.

As for the 'system', what system? They've devolved into most NBA teams: pick and roll. It's either that, or four-down. I've said it before and I'll say it again: whatever happened to guard-around? Wedge-roll? etc.

[SenorSpur]

With the news leaked on the discussions with Miami, it's pretty clear that the Spurs are/were trying to shave off salary without taking back a player.

It's a damn shame the fucked-up Knicks were allowed to swoop in and take Tyrus Thomas. Instead of aggressively upgrading the roster, it looks like Pop is willing to drag the remainder of these tired legs to the regular season finish line.

[Bartleby]

The Knicks got Thomas?

[SenorSpur]

The Knicks got Thomas?

They're making a hard, late, aggressive bit - separate from the McGrady deal with Houston. Nothing is official - yet. Let's just say the Knicks look like the leaders in the clubhouse for now.

[ducks]

a healthy mcgrady and james,thomas
had they got nate
knicks would have had a team

[Sean Cagney]

They're making a hard, late, aggressive bit - separate from the McGrady deal with Houston. Nothing is official - yet. Let's just say the Knicks look like the leaders in the clubhouse for now.

F IN BULLSHYT, GO FIGURE this would happen there. What a f'ed up year.

[SenorSpur]

Marc Stein's latest report is the Knicks are prepared to send Al Harrington to the Bulls in exchange for Thomas. Which, if true, doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't know Harrington's contract status (and too lazy to look it up now). I do know the Bulls have been desparately seeking expiring contracts.

[benefactor]

10 million expiring.

[Sean Cagney]

Marc Stein's latest report is the Knicks are prepared to send Al Harrington to the Bulls in exchange for Thomas. Which, if true, doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't know Harrington's contract status (and too lazy to look it up now). I do know the Bulls have been desparately seeking expiring contracts.

Doesn't make much damn sense, but it will trump us and we won't get Thomas or anyone worth a shyt. This will happen, watch. Another huge dissapointment this year for this team, what else is new.

[HarlemHeat37]

So it looks like the Salmons trade might be Joe Alexander + Hakim Warrick instead of Thomas-Elson..

[benefactor]

So it looks like the Salmons trade might be Joe Alexander + Hakim Warrick instead of Thomas-Elson..
I guess that is a little better. It was making me kinda sick to think that Salmons could have been had for a bag of chips and the Spurs didn't seem to care.

[SenorSpur]

So it looks like the Salmons trade might be Joe Alexander + Hakim Warrick instead of Thomas-Elson..

Hell at this point, getting two, underachieving SFs for the 3 bags of nuts the Spurs have would be okay with me. If nothing else, this would allow Pop couild continue to hone his favorite on-court strategy "small-ball THE SEQUEL"

[HarlemHeat37]

It's funny because most of the Bulls fans on RealGM would rather have Mason-1st round pick deal instead of a deal for Donatello Harrington..

I would imagine the Spurs have at least made an offer like that..well, at least I hope..

[SenorSpur]

It's funny because most of the Bulls fans on RealGM would rather have Mason-1st round pick deal instead of a deal for Donatello Harrington..

I would imagine the Spurs have at least made an offer like that..well, at least I hope..

Yeah, I thought so too. Especially considering the Bulls are hurting desparately for perimeter scoring since the departure of Ben Gordon. Thought this was a slam dunk. I hope I'm proved wrong tomorrow.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I thought so too. Especially considering the Bulls are hurting desparately for perimeter scoring since the departure of Ben Gordon. Thought this was a slam dunk. I hope I'm proved wrong tomorrow.

Mason's struggling scoring on this team. Why'd he be any different in Chi-town?

[Sean Cagney]

Yeah, I thought so too. Especially considering the Bulls are hurting desparately for perimeter scoring since the departure of Ben Gordon. Thought this was a slam dunk. I hope I'm proved wrong tomorrow.

Eh doubt it, they will settle for a deal that makes no sense at all and we will scratch our heads but we lost out on what we wanted. Maggette signed with a loaded GS team at the time and he said he wanted to win? They were loaded with guys like him already and nothing else, but he signs there and spurns us at the end :( Good lord it always ends like this.

[HarlemHeat37]

Maggette signed there because they gave him big money..it was a stupid move by GS at the time, but not by Maggette..$$$ > winning..

[The Truth #6]

Maybe other GMs just don't want to deal with us? Every year we come up short on trades, except for Jefferson, which happened because they got off their ass. At the same time they had to think about it forever the previous trade deadline. Anyway just curious for the reasons for our inaction. My guess - Pop gets neurotic and overanalyzes everything then waits till the last second and almost gets something done...5 minutes after the deadline.

[Sean Cagney]

Maggette signed there because they gave him big money..it was a stupid move by GS at the time, but not by Maggette..$$$ > winning..

Which is why he will never sniff the playoffs or a ring there.

[HarlemHeat37]

So ESPN is reporting that there is a 3-way deal that is agreed in principal with Kevin Martin going to Houston and McGrady going to either Sacto or New Yiddy..

So it looks like the Bulls won't be involved in that if it's true..so the only rumored possibility for Thomas seems to be for Al Harrington now..

[EricB]

damn nice job Houston getting Martin.

But man, watching him tonight vs GS, he looked terrible.

[murpjf88]

Well, if thats true, all the teams that surround the Spurs seem to be getting stronger and we seem to be stuck in neutral. In a couple weeks, we could be on the outside looking in.

[EricB]

Well, if thats true, all the teams that surround the Spurs seem to be getting stronger and we seem to be stuck in neutral. In a couple weeks, we could be on the outside looking in.

Again, you want the Spurs to hold a gun to these teams heads if they turn down the Spurs offers?

Im curious to as why people think making trades are so easy.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL Rockets apparently gave up Landry..

Martin looks horrible this year and he's a defensive liability..they're gonna be banking heavy on him returning to form..

[cdcast]

...and the worst season in Duncan era gets more f'ed up by the hour.

But don't worry, Eric B still thinks we got a shot.

[crc21209]

Tyrus Thomas for that piece of crap Al Harrington? Seriously? WTF?!?!?

[cdcast]

Tyrus Thomas for that piece of crap Al Harrington? Seriously? WTF?!?!?

Harrington with 27 pts. tonight against Bulls probably sealed it.

[murpjf88]

Again, you want the Spurs to hold a gun to these teams heads if they turn down the Spurs offers?

Im curious to as why people think making trades are so easy.

No, I don't blame any team for turning down the Spurs offer; They have shit to offer. However, If they didn't have RJ's contract to worry about, a trade would have been much easier to procure. As things stand right now, the spurs can't do anything but go bargain hunting. The problem is regardless of any trade the Spurs manage to pull off, it won't make them a contender.

[L.I.T]

That's a good move by the Kings. Build around Tyreke Evans. Get under the cap to allow you to make a splash in free agency by selling the young core to free agents. Plus you add Carl Landry (who is a beast) to a young core of Evans/Casspi/Hawes/Thompson.

Kevin Martin makes sense if Yao Ming can get healthy. But right now? Kevin Martin + Aaron Brooks + Trevor Ariza...that's going to get ugly with only one ball to go around.

[crc21209]

Harrington with 27 pts. tonight against Bulls probably sealed it.

That guys been traded more than anyone over the past couple years (besides Drew Gooden). :lol

[TJastal]

Wow, watching Hibbert once again dominate the interior on the spurs wouldn't it be nice if the spurs could phanagle a trade w/ him.

Mavs played surprisingly good w/ two new guys in the starting lineup. That's scary.

[SenorSpur]

Wow, watching Hibbert once again dominate the interior on the spurs wouldn't it be nice if the spurs could phanagle a trade w/ him.

Mavs played surprisingly good w/ two new guys in the starting lineup. That's scary.

...and watch Pop give him a seat on the bench next to Ian in favor of small ball? No thanks.

[FeZZy]

nah i'd take hibbert any day

[Bruno]

I'm surprised that Bulls have been able to dump Salmons for expiring. He is a good player but I thought that Bulls wouldn't be able to trade him that easily.

I'm not sure if the Salmons trade is a good or bad news for Spurs.
If Spurs plan was to low ball Bulls to get Salmons+Thomas for expiring, then it's a bad news.
If Salmons was a true deal breaker, then it's a good news. Spurs can now talk with Bulls about Thomas without Salmons being included.

[HarlemHeat37]

It looks like now that it appears that the Bulls aren't involved in the T-Mac deal, that the Thomas' deal might come down to the Knicks and Spurs, at least according to the rumors..a package involving Harrington-TT and Jerome James or maybe Mason-1st pick for Thomas?..

I guess it could be possible that the Lakers might still try to get a 3-way done for Hinrich and Thomas might be involved by going to another team..

My guess is that if the Spurs want Thomas, he can be had..the Bulls desperately need a wing right now, and Roger Mason would fit that role for them..he's obviously not a star or anything, but he would be a good stop-gap for the Bulls right now..

[mountainballer]

good news would be, if the Knicks pull the trigger on a big trade with the Kings without involving the Bulls.
but my guess is, they still work on something along this line.
however, the Bulls are now very very thin in the back court, but I assume they still want to make the PO.
(they should also because any superstar FA will be more interested in joining a PO team).
so good news is, the Bulls lack something the Spurs can offer.
I'm sure the Bulls will wait till last second, before they decide about TT.
the price will still be a 1st rounder. Spurs could still make an offer.
Dallas, Portland, Houston just upgraded. Spurs should do something.

[TJastal]

It looks like now that it appears that the Bulls aren't involved in the T-Mac deal, that the Thomas' deal might come down to the Knicks and Spurs, at least according to the rumors..a package involving Harrington-TT and Jerome James or maybe Mason-1st pick for Thomas?..

I guess it could be possible that the Lakers might still try to get a 3-way done for Hinrich and Thomas might be involved by going to another team..

My guess is that if the Spurs want Thomas, he can be had..the Bulls desperately need a wing right now, and Roger Mason would fit that role for them..he's obviously not a star or anything, but he would be a good stop-gap for the Bulls right now..

From the trade speculation thread [Objective]


The Bulls weren't desperate to dump Tyrus, they can renounce him this summer to get more cap room if the want. He was just supposed to be the bait to get someone to take Salmons off their hands.

Now that the Bucks did them a favor, there's no good reason to dump him unless they want picks.

[HarlemHeat37]

All indications here in NY are that they desperately want to get in on the McGrady deal, obviously for good reason..

Also, there have been reports that they want Thomas because D'Antoni apparently likes him, but everybody here knows that D'Antoni and Harrington don't get a long at all, so it's more than likely a move just so they can get rid of Harrington..so I don't think they want Thomas that badly, but I obviously could be wrong..

So as mountainballer said, we should be hoping that the Knicks get in on the McGrady deal..

[jiggy_55]

It looks like now that it appears that the Bulls aren't involved in the T-Mac deal, that the Thomas' deal might come down to the Knicks and Spurs, at least according to the rumors..a package involving Harrington-TT and Jerome James or maybe Mason-1st pick for Thomas?..

I guess it could be possible that the Lakers might still try to get a 3-way done for Hinrich and Thomas might be involved by going to another team..

My guess is that if the Spurs want Thomas, he can be had..the Bulls desperately need a wing right now, and Roger Mason would fit that role for them..he's obviously not a star or anything, but he would be a good stop-gap for the Bulls right now..

Source of your rumors? Espn and yahoo have both said knicks will try to get in on the deal to take tmac..

EDIT: my bad, thought you said the Knicks aren't involved!

[jiggy_55]

All indications here in NY are that they desperately want to get in on the McGrady deal, obviously for good reason..

Also, there have been reports that they want Thomas because D'Antoni apparently likes him, but everybody here knows that D'Antoni and Harrington don't get a long at all, so it's more than likely a move just so they can get rid of Harrington..so I don't think they want Thomas that badly, but I obviously could be wrong..

So as mountainballer said, we should be hoping that the Knicks get in on the McGrady deal..

Also, sources said harrington would not be part of the deal.. it would be jeffries, hughes and maybe hill and some pick..

[objective]

From the trade speculation thread [Objective]

me and hh37 have different gueses, true. Doesn't mean I'm right, hell I thought there was no way Bonner would ever start another game without injuries to others.

Tomorrow will clear up who's where.

[HarlemHeat37]

That's what I just said..the Knicks really want McGrady..

Now ESPN is saying that Sacramento wants Hinrich from Chicago in the McGrady deal..

This is all getting confusing now..I guess we're just gonna have to wait until it's all official..

[HarlemHeat37]

Also, sources said harrington would not be part of the deal.. it would be jeffries, hughes and maybe hill and some pick..

Harrington is the proposed deal for Tyrus Thomas according to all the rumors, which is what I just said..

[jiggy_55]

For some reason, I believe Pop when he said we're not trading. I hope he's lying or wrong, cuz i think TT will be a big upgrade here. However, doesn't really seem like anything is happening.

Again, hope im wrong!

[jiggy_55]

Made my EDIT above.. thought you said Knicks weren't involded buddy.. No worries

[SenorSpur]

I'm surprised that Bulls have been able to dump Salmons for expiring. He is a good player but I thought that Bulls wouldn't be able to trade him that easily.

I'm not sure if the Salmons trade is a good or bad news for Spurs.
If Spurs plan was to low ball Bulls to get Salmons+Thomas for expiring, then it's a bad news.
If Salmons was a true deal breaker, then it's a good news. Spurs can now talk with Bulls about Thomas without Salmons being included.

Seeing as how the asset value the Bulls got in return for Salmons was basically nothing more than expiring contracts (Alexander+Warrick), it's hard to understand WHY the Spurs and Bulls couldn't strike a deal.

Could it be the Spurs were trying to low-ball the Bulls?

This is just speculation, but knowing the Spurs were also in talks with the Heat on a possible trade, maybe the Spurs felt they had an inside track on dumping their player (Mason) in exchange for a trade exception? In essence, they were trying to simply sell one of their own players for cash, without having to take back a player at all.

Either way, it sucks!

[timvp]

Seeing as how the asset value the Bulls got in return for Salmons was basically nothing more than expiring contracts (Alexander+Warrick), it's hard to understand WHY the Spurs and Bulls couldn't strike a deal.

Could it be the Spurs were trying to low-ball the Bulls?

This is just speculation, but knowing the Spurs were also in talks with the Heat on a possible trade, maybe the Spurs felt they had an inside track on dumping their player (Mason) in exchange for a trade exception? In essence, they were trying to simply sell one of their own players for cash, without having to take back a player at all.

Either way, it sucks!

I wouldn't even want Salmons for expirings. Taking on Salmons was supposed to be the "punishment" that allowed a team to get Tyrus Thomas. Why take on what was widely assumed to be a negative asset for free?

Secondly, even if the Spurs wanted to trade expirings for Salmons, Warrick and Alexander is a better combo than any expirings the Spurs have. Unless the Spurs were going to trade expirings and a pick for Salmons, I don't see how they could have surpassed Milwaukee's offer.

[Mel_13]

Seeing as how the asset value the Bulls got in return for Salmons was basically nothing more than expiring contracts (Alexander+Warrick), it's hard to understand WHY the Spurs and Bulls couldn't strike a deal.


It's easy to understand. They didn't want a 30 yr old, league average, wing player to take up a 5.8M slot in their salary structure next season.

Even if they spend at the same level next year, there will be an upper limit on spending. When you compare the known obligations to the upper budget limit, you probably get a number somewhere south of 20M to fill out the roster through trades, resignings, and new FA signings. It is easy to understand how spending 5.8M on Salmons might not fit.

[SenorSpur]

I wouldn't even want Salmons for expirings. Taking on Salmons was supposed to be the "punishment" that allowed a team to get Tyrus Thomas. Why take on what was widely assumed to be a negative asset for free?

Secondly, even if the Spurs wanted to trade expirings for Salmons, Warrick and Alexander is a better combo than any expirings the Spurs have. Unless the Spurs were going to trade expirings and a pick for Salmons, I don't see how they could have surpassed Milwaukee's offer.

Don't see why so many are down on Salmons. He's a productive 2-3 player, good scorer and defender. He's certainly more productive than the tandem of Finley/Mason and the Spurs could use such a player going into next season.

That said, it's hard to figure if the Spurs are buyers, sellers or a little bit of both.

[Mr. Body]

I wouldn't even want Salmons for expirings. Taking on Salmons was supposed to be the "punishment" that allowed a team to get Tyrus Thomas. Why take on what was widely assumed to be a negative asset for free?

Secondly, even if the Spurs wanted to trade expirings for Salmons, Warrick and Alexander is a better combo than any expirings the Spurs have. Unless the Spurs were going to trade expirings and a pick for Salmons, I don't see how they could have surpassed Milwaukee's offer.

I expected more out of Joe Alexander. He has great physical talents and was awesome in knocking Duke out of the tournament a couple years ago; he just hasn't gotten it together. I'd still say he's worth keeping an eye on.

[dbestpro]

The Spurs are done for this year. I am convinced of that. No trade can fix the maniacal coaching that shows no end in sight.

[CGD]

It's easy to understand. They didn't want a 30 yr old, league average, wing player to take up a 5.8M slot in their salary structure next season.

Even if they spend at the same level next year, there will be an upper limit on spending. When you compare the known obligations to the upper budget limit, you probably get a number somewhere south of 20M to fill out the roster through trades, resignings, and new FA signings. It is easy to understand how spending 5.8M on Salmons might not fit.

:tu

Thanks for tempering some of the emotions in here.

I'm amazed how starry-eyed some folks got over Salmon, but leaving that to the side, the financial weren't ever going to allow the Spurs to add more salary for next year (unless of course they want to jeopardize bringing Manu/Splitter, or if they're OK paying more in luxury tax).

Hell, even if the Spurs were to bring in TT the team is very worried about adding his salary next year. That's the whole point of the rumors we've heard respecting Dice.

[pensive]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13433/talking-salmons-robinson-and-harrington

Talking Salmons, Robinson and Harrington (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13433/talking-salmons-robinson-and-harrington)

February, 17, 2010 Feb 17
7:34
PM ET

Email (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13433/talking-salmons-robinson-and-harrington#) Print (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/print?id=13433) Share (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29;)
By Chris Sheridan
Archive (http://search.espn.go.com/chris-sheridan/)

Checking in from Madison Square Garden, where Nate Robinson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2782) is not in the building (he had flu-like symptoms that sent him to the hospital late Monday) as the Knicks continued their discussions with Boston. As Marc Stein noted an hour ago, John Salmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1726) is not here either, as the Bulls apparently have a deal in place. "There are a lot of things that as an organization we're working on, and John Salmons will not be playing. There's things that I'm not at liberty to say," coach Vinny Del Negro (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=197) said.

The Bulls had been in discussions with the Spurs on a deal that would have sent Salmons to San Antonio for Roger Mason (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1721) and Matt Bonner (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1996), but those talks died.

Chicago has been eager to move Salmons, who has a player option for this season at $5.8 million, for an expiring contract or contracts to clear additional cap space for next summer.

There also was talk at the Garden that the Knicks were discussing a trade with the Bulls that would send Al Harrington (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=308) to Chicago, with Harrington possibly being rerouted to a third team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Bulls had been in discussions with the Spurs on a deal that would have sent Salmons to San Antonio for Roger Mason (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1721) and Matt Bonner (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1996), but those talks died.



Of course the talks would die, the Spurs are not as dumb as the Bucks FFS, no way they do that trade without TT being involved.

[Mr. Body]

Al Harrington to Bulls ... --- If they want to do it, but it can't help much. He can get stats but does nothing much to win games.

John Salmons --- people fell for him simply because it was an action. There's a common thought that what ails this team can be fixed in tinkering. He's a nice player, but not at that price.

Trading --- Our trade happened in the offseason. We went for broke with Jefferson and bringing McDyess in. Neither has quite worked out.

[timvp]

The Chicago Bulls and Milwaukee Bucks were nearing completion of the John Salmons trade Thursday morning. However, although the early word last night was that the Bucks would send Kurt Thomas and Francisco Elson to the Bulls, sources close to the process told ESPN.com this morning that there is a "90 percent chance" Milwaukee sends Chicago Joe Alexander and Hakim Warrick instead.

Why the change? Last night the Bucks were also exploring an alternative deal that would send Warrick to another team. However, those talks began to fizzle as the night wore on. If they heat back up today, then the Bucks can still insert Thomas and Elson (if necessary) back into the Salmons deal.

[benefactor]

The Bobcats, determined to add an athletic big man to their front court, are close to landing Tyrus Thomas in a deal with the Bulls that would send expiring contracts and a future No. 1 pick to Chicago, a person with knowledge of the situation told CBSSports.com.

While the source cautioned that the details were still being resolved and that the deal was pending final approval, it appears that Thomas will secure his exit from Chicago. The Bobcats would then have the rest of the season to evaluate the soon-to-be restricted free agent and decide whether to commit to him long-term. Trading Thomas spares the Bulls the embarrassment of losing one of their best players through free agency with no compensation for the second year in a row.

If successful in landing Thomas, Charlotte would circumvent discussions between the Knicks and Bulls involving a swap centered around Al Harrington.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/20119740

[ace3g]

great, the only other player available I was interested in trading for, the only thing now that would get me excited for the season would be something involving Haslem/Wright or Iggy/Dalembert

funny how this season started so promising and is turning into a complete disaster

[benefactor]

Sources say that Knicks-Bulls talks on Tyrus Thomas trade have lost traction. "A long shot now," one official says.

[benefactor]

Damn...it feels like the Bulls have talked to every team in the league.

[timvp]

If the Bobcats are offering expirings and a first rounder, that trumps what the Spurs can offer.

Got damn it. Bonner and Bogans 4 life.

[benefactor]

Between Berger reporting the Charlotte deal and Wojo saying the deal with NY/Houston is almost dead it looks like the Bobcats will be Thomas' new home.

[AFBlue]

If the Bobcats are offering expirings and a first rounder, that trumps what the Spurs can offer.

Got damn it. Bonner and Bogans 4 life.

Agreed.

There is still the opportunity for a couple swing-for-the-fences type deals, with Amare and Murphy still available...but I'm not sure the Spurs FO has it in them, given how the last "major" trade has turned out so far.

Looks like this is the team to roll with. :depressed

[timvp]

I thought Bruno said that the Bobcats couldn't offer a first round pick . . . . . :(

[lurker23]

@RicBucher

Sources say Cha is likeliest destination for Bulls' Ty Thomas right now, in exchange for expiring contracts. Flip Murray/Acie Law works.

Deal would be Thomas for Law, Murray and protected future 1st-round pick. Not done, but other suitors for Ty believe it will happen.

[timvp]

@RicBucher

Sources say Cha is likeliest destination for Bulls' Ty Thomas right now, in exchange for expiring contracts. Flip Murray/Acie Law works.

Deal would be Thomas for Law, Murray and protected future 1st-round pick. Not done, but other suitors for Ty believe it will happen.

:smchode:

[Chomag]

Guess we should all just try to suck it up and get used to the elite Bonner and Bogans starting line up.

IT will be hard for sure...

[SenorSpur]

Spurs trumped again.

[Mel_13]

I thought Bruno said that the Bobcats couldn't offer a first round pick . . . . . :(

They don't have their 2010 pick, so they can't offer their 2011 pick.

They can offer a 2012 pick.

[MaNu4Tres]

Our front office is easily one of the most stubborn in the league.

At times being stubborn is great and some other times its downright stupid..

Standing pat was the worst option for this franchise.

[SenorSpur]

If this is a player that the FO has coveted and they feel can really help the team - GO GET HIS ASS! - within reason of course.