Spurs interested in Bulls' Thomas?

[Bruno]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Al7q4vcPXvLf96U.lHFIq1.8vLYF?slug=aw-tradebuzz021510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Timberwolves could make bid for Thomas


By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo!

As the Chicago Bulls prepare to trade forward Tyrus Thomas before Thursday’s deadline, the franchise’s front office has suggested to prospective bidders that they have a solid offer of a middling first-round pick and expiring contracts, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets made bids for Thomas over the weekend, league sources said. The Nuggets have actively searched for a big man in recent weeks, working to pry younger (DeAndre Jordan) and older ones (Antonio McDyess and Ben Wallace) without success.

After losing out on Caron Butler to the Mavericks, Houston has gotten serious with bids for Thomas and Washington’s Antawn Jamison, sources said.

Nevertheless, here are two developments to watch with Thomas: Several league executives suggested the Minnesota Timberwolves could be a sleeper for him. Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been researching Thomas and has plenty of assets – three 2010 first-round picks, multiple second-rounders and a host of expiring contracts – to make it happen. Once the Timberwolves trade Al Jefferson this summer, they can re-sign Thomas and plug him into the frontline with Kevin Love. Jefferson is expected to be traded for a talented, young small forward.

Trading for Thomas would be a way to get a long, athletic power forward with upside, and the Timberwolves could easily re-sign him this summer.


---------------------------

Spurs aren't mentioning. Either they are the team that has made an offer with a middling first round pick and expiring or they are more likely out of the race for Thomas.

Spurs not making McDyess available is also a good sign that Spurs are still serious about winning and haven't given up.

[Mr. Body]

Harrington to Bulls back in the rumor fires as NBA trade deadline approaches (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/harrington-to-bulls-back-in-the-rumor-fires-as-nba-trade-deadline-approaches.php)

By Matt Moore

The Tyrus Thomas to New York rumors were thought dead as time went on, but Ken Berger of CBSSports.com is reporting the deal (http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/20058193?source=rss_blogs_NBA) is experiencing a 'Thriller' like revival, with the same pieces in place. Al Harrington provides a two-birds, one-stone combination for the Bulls. His scoring ability at the forward position may not be rife with down-low ability, but for an offense that occasionally borders on apoplectic, he's still sorely needed. And his expiring contract aids in their pursuit of the top-line free agents.

For the Knicks it means more salary dump and a promising young forward with hyper-athleticism to slot into D'Antoni's system. While Thomas' offensive fluency isn't exactly staggering, he's also less of a freezer point than Harrington. His option to opt-in might be considered a negative to some Knicks' fans, but with the team without its first round draft pick (owned by Utah, thanks, Isiah!), this could indicate the Knicks are realizing they're not as big a player this summer as we/they thought.

The Bulls meanwhile would have considerable depth at the forward position as well as a lot more flexibility. Brad Miller gives them scoring ability and a pinch post set that Vinny Del Negro loves to run into the ground, but isn't terribly effective. The addition of Harrington would mean that with either Noah or Gibson on the floor, there would be a scoring threat in the 4-5 spots on the floor. Harrington's defense would be the issue, but then, the expiring contract probably makes up for any gap there

Get this guy a dictionary, STAT!

[Spurs Brazil]

Too many teams trying to acquire Thomas

We have no chance

[benefactor]

Too many teams trying to acquire Thomas

We have no chance
Yeah...it's looking more and more like the Bulls are going to get a better offer. The Spurs look to be doing the same thing that most of the other teams are doing, which is going for Thomas straight up instead of having to accept Salmons or Hinrich in a package. This makes me think that they don't want to give up both Bonner and Mason.

If the Spurs cannot get Thomas I'd like to see them at least inquire about Salmons. The Bulls are still looking for as much cap relief as they can get going into next season and as Mel_13 said, Salmons would be a nice upgrade in the wing rotation next season at a decent price.

[exstatic]

Spurs aren't mentioning. Either they are the team that has made an offer with a middling first round pick and expiring or they are more likely out of the race for Thomas.

Spurs not making McDyess available is also a good sign that Spurs are still serious about winning and haven't given up.

Spurs pick, even now (21/30), can't be considered "middling" first round. It's a late first rounder, so that probably isn't us.

[exstatic]

Denver's going to have a tough time. The Bulls requirements are: all ending contracts and you have to eat either Salmons or Hinrich. Denver doesn't have the expirings to make it happen.

[mountainballer]

I just don't see much downside risk to acquiring Thomas and Salmons for the expiring contracts. I definitely wouldn't give up Splitter's rights to make it happen. I probably wouldn't give up the 2010 first rounder either, but I don't know enough about the depth of this year's draft to be sure.

totally agree.
about the draft: 2010 will likely be pretty deep in the big men pool (little star power though) and very very thin regarding guards and wings. (even if the #1 will be a guard)
so, with the Spurs in position to have Splitter, Blair and eventually Thomas, a pick of a big man doesn't look very sensible, even if there could be an interesting prospect at #20. the few interesting wings and guards will be gone. (outside Wall only Turner, Warren and Henry look like decent prospects).
E. Williams might be the only realistic option for a decent guard at #20, but he would duplicate much of what the Spurs get from Hill.
so overall, I see the 2010 pick as expendable, if it brings back a young player.
(I wouldn't want to sacrifice it like the Spurs did 2008, when they spent the 1st rounder for the old Kurt Thomas)

[SenorSpur]

Yeah...it's looking more and more like the Bulls are going to get a better offer. The Spurs look to be doing the same thing that most of the other teams are doing, which is going for Thomas straight up instead of having to accept Salmons or Hinrich in a package. This makes me think that they don't want to give up both Bonner and Mason.
If that's true, then the Spurs FO are damn fools. Whatever it is that is leading the Spurs to desire Thomas, I would argue that adding Salmons would be just as important. He'd be an ideal fit because is a player that can score. He can play both 2 & 3 spots. He is an above average defender, has a nice all around game and a fairly high BBIQ. It wouldn't be hard for him to trump the pitiful contribution of RJ. Finally, adding Salmons makes sense when you consider the Spurs the potential upcoming changes at the Spurs wing position. The Spurs are most certainly looking to trade RJ and Manu is not expected to resign this summer. Those factors alone make signing a player like Salmons ever more critical.


If the Spurs cannot get Thomas I'd like to see them at least inquire about Salmons. The Bulls are still looking for as much cap relief as they can get going into next season and as Mel_13 said, Salmons would be a nice upgrade in the wing rotation next season at a decent price.
Agree.

[lebomb]

Spurs are staying with what they have. Unfortunately.

[George Gervin's Afro]

spurs are staying with what they have. unfortunately.


+1

[5in10]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Al7q4vcPXvLf96U.lHFIq1.8vLYF?slug=aw-tradebuzz021510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Timberwolves could make bid for Thomas


By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo!

As the Chicago Bulls prepare to trade forward Tyrus Thomas before Thursday’s deadline, the franchise’s front office has suggested to prospective bidders that they have a solid offer of a middling first-round pick and expiring contracts, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets made bids for Thomas over the weekend, league sources said. The Nuggets have actively searched for a big man in recent weeks, working to pry younger (DeAndre Jordan) and older ones (Antonio McDyess and Ben Wallace) without success.

After losing out on Caron Butler to the Mavericks, Houston has gotten serious with bids for Thomas and Washington’s Antawn Jamison, sources said.

Nevertheless, here are two developments to watch with Thomas: Several league executives suggested the Minnesota Timberwolves could be a sleeper for him. Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been researching Thomas and has plenty of assets – three 2010 first-round picks, multiple second-rounders and a host of expiring contracts – to make it happen. Once the Timberwolves trade Al Jefferson this summer, they can re-sign Thomas and plug him into the frontline with Kevin Love. Jefferson is expected to be traded for a talented, young small forward.

Trading for Thomas would be a way to get a long, athletic power forward with upside, and the Timberwolves could easily re-sign him this summer.


---------------------------

Spurs aren't mentioning. Either they are the team that has made an offer with a middling first round pick and expiring or they are more likely out of the race for Thomas.

Spurs not making McDyess available is also a good sign that Spurs are still serious about winning and haven't given up.

Makes me wonder if we could pry Al Jefferson away, if we throw in splitter and jefferson or manu.

[Big P]

Makes me wonder if we could pry Al Jefferson away, if we throw in splitter and jefferson or manu.

no

[RiverwalkParade]

How about this trade?
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5462334

If Minnesota is interested in TT, can we join the fun and try to get something more out of this? It seems that Gomes would be a good fit here and not sure if he would bring the same locker problems with him, plus we get Salmons and another ball handler in Pargo.

[waly.mg]

Splitter who had fouled out and was a non-factor.
That´s true, Splitter isn´t half a player of Scola, probably Oberto is better too.

Probaly his level is Like Rasho

[slick'81]

ive heard nothing on spurs or tt in a while

[ace3g]

Wolves Could Make Play For Tyrus Thomas

The Bulls are preparing to trade forward Tyrus Thomas prior to Thursday's deadline and the Timberwolves could be a sleeper to land the former LSU star.

Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been researching Thomas and the team has a boatload of assets to use to acquire him.

They have three first-round picks and a host of expiring contracts.

The Nuggets and Rockets have also expressed interest in Thomas.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64712/20100215/wolves_could_make_play_for_tyrus_thomas/#

[ace3g]

How about this trade?
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5462334

If Minnesota is interested in TT, can we join the fun and try to get something more out of this? It seems that Gomes would be a good fit here and not sure if he would bring the same locker problems with him, plus we get Salmons and another ball handler in Pargo.

I like this trade if we can't do a TT/Salmons trade

[Sean Cagney]

Wolves Could Make Play For Tyrus Thomas

The Bulls are preparing to trade forward Tyrus Thomas prior to Thursday's deadline and the Timberwolves could be a sleeper to land the former LSU star.

Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been researching Thomas and the team has a boatload of assets to use to acquire him.

They have three first-round picks and a host of expiring contracts.

The Nuggets and Rockets have also expressed interest in Thomas.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64712/20100215/wolves_could_make_play_for_tyrus_thomas/#

Damn :( We are out of it altogether it seems. Spurs aren't going to make a trade, guess we just have to hope for the best with what we have and hope it's enough! Talent wise it should be enough, but can they work together as a team?

[FeZZy]

Wolves Could Make Play For Tyrus Thomas

The Bulls are preparing to trade forward Tyrus Thomas prior to Thursday's deadline and the Timberwolves could be a sleeper to land the former LSU star.

Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been researching Thomas and the team has a boatload of assets to use to acquire him.

They have three first-round picks and a host of expiring contracts.

The Nuggets and Rockets have also expressed interest in Thomas.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64712/20100215/wolves_could_make_play_for_tyrus_thomas/#


I dont ryan gomes? why? :lol ANTAWN JAMISON!

[Obstructed_View]

Minnesota's 17 games out of eighth place; why are they looking to make this move? The simple fact that they are should make San Antonio rethink wanting this guy.

[Beaverfuzz]

Lakers/Bulls/Blazers to be involved in a Thomas trade. Interesting...

[Baseline]

You think TT is unhappy in Chicago? Wait 'til he hits Minnesota.

The Wolves are asking for it if they bring that dude up there.

[objective]

Minnesota's 17 games out of eighth place; why are they looking to make this move? The simple fact that they are should make San Antonio rethink wanting this guy.

They would make the move for two reasons I'd guess:

A: Even though they'll have lots of caproom nobody worth a damn will want to sign in MN, so trading for a young guy works for them

B: The GM likes to duplicate positions. Pair up Jefferson, Love and Thomas to go with Rubio, Flynn and Sessions.

[Baseline]

Lakers/Bulls/Blazers to be involved in a Thomas trade. Interesting...

Where'd you hear this?

[Beaverfuzz]

From a Blazer blog:


Trade rumors....."According to one source familiar with the discussions, the Lakers would get Hinrich, the Bulls would get Adam Morrison, Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and Juwan Howard, and the Blazers would land Tyrus Thomas and Sasha Vujacic."

[Mel_13]

Minnesota's 17 games out of eighth place; why are they looking to make this move? The simple fact that they are should make San Antonio rethink wanting this guy.

There's nothing out there to indicate that the Spurs' interest in Thomas has decreased or increased, although recent reports indicate that his price may have increased beyond what they would consider a reasonable price.

Minny owns the first rounders of the Bobcats and the Jazz in addition to their own lottery pick. If they offer expiring contracts plus the Charlotte pick, they win.

[Mel_13]

From a Blazer blog:


Trade rumors....."According to one source familiar with the discussions, the Lakers would get Hinrich, the Bulls would get Adam Morrison, Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and Juwan Howard, and the Blazers would land Tyrus Thomas and Sasha Vujacic."

That's essentially what Wojnarowski reported earlier. His report concluded with this comment:

“What has, or will kill this,” one GM said, “is that Portland just won’t take Vujacic on.”

[SenorSpur]

Why aren't the Spurs being mentioned in any of this? Have they all but given up?

[objective]

That's essentially what Wojnarowski reported earlier. His report concluded with this comment:

“What has, or will kill this,” one GM said, “is that Portland just won’t take Vujacic on.”

thank God for Sasha's awful contract.

Heinrich on the the Lakers . . . please no.

[Baseline]

That's essentially what Wojnarowski reported earlier. His report concluded with this comment:

“What has, or will kill this,” one GM said, “is that Portland just won’t take Vujacic on.”

Neither would I.

[xtremesteven33]

Why aren't the Spurs being mentioned in any of this? Have they all but given up?



When the media says nothing about the Spurs...its probably cause theyre gonna really make a move

[Mel_13]

Why aren't the Spurs being mentioned in any of this? Have they all but given up?

:lol

The two obvious possibilities:

1. No deal is close to completion

2. Spurs FO personnel don't spend as much time talking to reporters as their counterparts on other teams.

[jesterbobman]

We're limited in that we can't trade the pick in this years draft until after we've picked, as we traded away our 09 pick. At 20, We're either looking at someone like Ebanks, A under the radar guy (eg Parakhouski from Radford), or hoping someone falls.

I don't see any reason to not do a Thomas and/or Salmons trade though, or at least to attempt it. IT'd probably take a 2011 pick to do it, but for a significant upgrrade in talent that doesn't affect 2011 flexibility, to get a 3rd Wing and the Athletic combo forward we've been looking for for a long time, that 2011 pick seems a decent price. (Though protection on it would be a good idea)

[Mel_13]

We're limited in that we can't trade the pick in this years draft until after we've picked, as we traded away our 09 pick. At 20, We're either looking at someone like Ebanks, A under the radar guy (eg Parakhouski from Radford), or hoping someone falls.

I don't see any reason to not do a Thomas and/or Salmons trade though, or at least to attempt it. IT'd probably take a 2011 pick to do it, but for a significant upgrrade in talent that doesn't affect 2011 flexibility, to get a 3rd Wing and the Athletic combo forward we've been looking for for a long time, that 2011 pick seems a decent price. (Though protection on it would be a good idea)

The spurs can trade their 2010 pick. The rules prohibit trading two consecutive future picks. Once the 2009 draft was over, the Spurs were allowed to trade their 2010 pick.

[jesterbobman]

Sorry, my bad. Though A 2011 pick makes more sense for us to trade, and for the Bulls to get in a cap sense of when both teams want cap room and players, though it doesn't really matter.

[crc21209]

Why aren't the Spurs being mentioned in any of this? Have they all but given up?

Hopefully because the Spurs are working behind the scenes like always...never letting their plans get out before they execute them...:stirpot:

[Blackjack]

Tyrus Thomas a popular trade target, regardless of fit (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/tyrus-thomas-a-popular-trade-target-regardless-of-fit.php)

By Rob Mahoney

The allure of Tyrus Thomas is obvious: when Thomas is active and engaged, he can seriously impact games with his defense and lead a one-man assault on the rim on offense. He has the unique package of length, quickness, size, and athleticism necessary to be a versatile all-purpose defender. But something gets lost between the idea of Tyrus Thomas in theory and the actual Tyrus Thomas in practice. He hasn't quite figured out how to contribute in meaningful ways on a nightly basis, but through no fault of his physical limitations. The real game for Thomas rests solely between his ears, and once he figures that out (supposing he eventually does)? Stock up on canned goods, buy up all the bottled water you can, and head down into the shelter.

But Tyrus' incredible doesn't necessarily make him a great fit in any frontcourt. Case in point? The Minnesota Timberwolves, who, despite the fact that Thomas would be paired with either Kevin Love or Al Jefferson, still are making a run at acquiring the Bulls forward. From Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AowZ1Psm_jTyZZ.dpADmEI28vLYF?slug=aw-tradebuzz021510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns):


Several league executives suggested the Minnesota Timberwolves could be a sleeper for him. Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been researching Thomas and has plenty of assets - three 2010 first-round picks, multiple second-rounders and a host of expiring contracts - to make it happen. Once the Timberwolves trade Al Jefferson this summer, they can re-sign Thomas and plug him into the frontline with Kevin Love. Jefferson is expected to be traded for a talented, young small forward. Trading for Thomas would be a way to get a long, athletic power forward with upside, and the Timberwolves could easily re-sign him this summer.


Trading for Thomas would hardly seem like a horrible move for the Wolves at present, but I'm not sure that having Tyrus and Kevin Love as the starting bigs is anything resembling an effective strategy. Love is an absolutely terrific player, but has neither the size nor mobility to defend talented offensive bigs. Thomas may be able to provide excellent help-side defense if he pulls it together, but he's far too thin to be the team's go-to post defender. So the Wolves would essentially be left with two talented big men who can provide very different things...only they wouldn't seem to really be capable of guarding anyone. Love will do his best down low against traditional bigs, and ultimately fall short; Thomas will float in and out of games and gamble defensively. Young team like Minnesota should focus on acquiring young talent/assets, and that part of the rumor is sound. But in terms of clearing out Al Jefferson in favor of a Thomas-Love front line? Color me pessimistic.

[crc21209]

Maybe Tyrus Thomas can still be had....remember all those rumors about Tyrus to New York for Harrington? Maybe that wont happen now thanks to this:

Harrington Will Be Involved In Deal For McGrady

A pair of sources told the New York Post on Sunday night that the Knicks remain in the race to acquire Rockets guard Tracy McGrady.

Any deal sending McGrady to New York would likely center around Al Harrington.

Houston would like to obtain either rookie Toney Douglas or Jordan Hill from New York in the deal as well.

"There's still a chance," one source said, regarding a McGrady-to-New York scenario without a third team involved.

Via New York Post

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64716/20100215/harrington_will_be_involved_in_deal_for_mcgrady/

[EricB]

:lol @ jordan hill

nice pick there gngstah man....

[ace3g]

Blazers offering Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and likely cash to Clippers for Marcus Camby, league source tells Y! Sports.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

from Woj twitter page, maybe if this goes through that will keep them out of the TT trade

[crc21209]

Blazers offering Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and likely cash to Clippers for Marcus Camby, league source tells Y! Sports.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

from Woj twitter page, maybe if this goes through that will keep them out of the TT trade

He also says they are trying to attach Telfair with Camby on any deal....

Clips trying to attach Telfair to deals with Camby, but doubt Port takes him back. Perhaps $2-3 million needed to inspire Clips on package.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

[TD 21]

Blazers offering Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and likely cash to Clippers for Marcus Camby, league source tells Y! Sports.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

from Woj twitter page, maybe if this goes through that will keep them out of the TT trade

Blake and Outlaw are solid players, but when it comes to to this, the Clippers are trading the best player in the deal and getting what type of long term value back? Camby's already an expiring contract as is.

Would the Clippers, already said to be shopping Thornton, be interested in re-signing Outlaw? He's a better outside shooter (which they need), but a comparable player overall.

Why is it that if you're one of the it or glamorous teams in the league that you can offer shit and at minimum be taken seriously, if not have the trade go through entirely and benefit you? But if you're the Spurs, for example and were to offer similar or comparable packages, it would be looked at as not being a credible offer. At least it seems that way.

You just know that if the Spurs called the Clippers and offered any combination of Mason, Bonner, Finley, Ratliff, Mahinmi, as well as a 1st round pick, they probably wouldn't be able to get a deal done. But the Blazers are offering even less, so it's seen as value.

There's no way the Blazers (if they are) should even be mulling that Lakers offer of Vujacic in a three-way deal, but supposedly they are; why? Because it's the Lakers they automatically feel obligated to help them? The Blazers aren't beating the Lakers this year, but next year they might have a chance. Why make any type of trade that strengthens the Lakers this year and next? It's beyond comprehension, yet I see this all the time in sports.

Happens all the time in baseball. Other teams offer crap, it's seen as crap. Yankees or Red Sox offer crap and it's gold because it's from them. It's bullshit.

[Johnny RIngo]

Blake and Outlaw are solid players, but when it comes to to this, the Clippers are trading the best player in the deal and getting what type of long term value back? Camby's already an expiring contract as is.

Would the Clippers, already said to be shopping Thornton, be interested in re-signing Outlaw? He's a better outside shooter (which they need), but a comparable player overall.

Why is it that if you're one of the it or glamorous teams in the league that you can offer shit and at minimum be taken seriously, if not have the trade go through entirely and benefit you? But if you're the Spurs, for example and were to offer similar or comparable packages, it would be looked at as not being a credible offer. At least it seems that way.

You just know that if the Spurs called the Clippers and offered any combination of Mason, Bonner, Finley, Ratliff, Mahinmi, as well as a 1st round pick, they probably wouldn't be able to get a deal done. But the Blazers are offering even less, so it's seen as value.

There's no way the Blazers (if they are) should even be mulling that Lakers offer of Vujacic in a three-way deal, but supposedly they are; why? Because it's the Lakers they automatically feel obligated to help them? The Blazers aren't beating the Lakers this year, but next year they might have a chance. Why make any type of trade that strengthens the Lakers this year and next? It's beyond comprehension, yet I see this all the time in sports.

Happens all the time in baseball. Other teams offer crap, it's seen as crap. Yankees or Red Sox offer crap and it's gold because it's from them. It's bullshit.

Collusion.

[ElNono]

He also says they are trying to attach Telfair with Camby on any deal....

Clips trying to attach Telfair to deals with Camby, but doubt Port takes him back. Perhaps $2-3 million needed to inspire Clips on package.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

If Camby gets traded to any team not named the Spurs, I fully expect a meltdown of major proportions in here...

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0216-bulls-chicago--20100215,0,5117374.story

Trade talk: League sources said the Bulls are still involved in talks with the Nuggets Rockets and Spurs regarding Tyrus Thomas. It's unknown if the Knicks' pursuit of Tracy McGrady has affected their interest in Thomas

[TD 21]

If it's down to the Nuggets, Rockets and Spurs are we're talking about a straight up deal (no third team involved) then it's only a matter of time before Thomas is a Spur. I don't see how those two teams can trump their offer, not with what they're reported to be making available at least.

[timvp]

My only problem with the Salmons/Thomas trade is that it'll make it harder for the Spurs to keep Manu. Salmons has guaranteed money next year that would otherwise go to Manu. If the Spurs keep Thomas, that is even more money on the budget. How do you keep Manu on top of all that?

It'd be hard to swallow but if you do the Salmons/Thomas deal, you might have to then trade Manu in a rent-a-bigman deal just because he'd be difficult to keep going forward and this is the last time to get value for him.

[Blackjack]

Maybe they won't have to take on Salmons . . . (unfortunate, if the case.)

The Spurs' expirings actually have the ability to help them on the court this year -- I'm not sure you can say the same for the other parties.

[objective]

My only problem with the Salmons/Thomas trade is that it'll make it harder for the Spurs to keep Manu. Salmons has guaranteed money next year that would otherwise go to Manu. If the Spurs keep Thomas, that is even more money on the budget. How do you keep Manu on top of all that?

It'd be hard to swallow but if you do the Salmons/Thomas deal, you might have to then trade Manu in a rent-a-bigman deal just because he'd be difficult to keep going forward and this is the last time to get value for him.

I don't know about that. I agree that it would make keeping Manu more than difficult, but I don't know how much offense the Spurs would have without Manu. Salmons is having a bad season %-wise, and even in the playoffs last year shot poorly on his baskets, and Tyrus isn't a big scorer. RJ can't be trusted.

If they're all-in, then keeping Manu is the way to go for contending for a title this year.

[scottspurs]

My only problem with the Salmons/Thomas trade is that it'll make it harder for the Spurs to keep Manu. Salmons has guaranteed money next year that would otherwise go to Manu. If the Spurs keep Thomas, that is even more money on the budget. How do you keep Manu on top of all that?

It'd be hard to swallow but if you do the Salmons/Thomas deal, you might have to then trade Manu in a rent-a-bigman deal just because he'd be difficult to keep going forward and this is the last time to get value for him.

Manu would have to take a pay cut. The question is will he. I won't blame the spurs if they let Manu walk if he wants what he is getting now.

[scottspurs]

My only problem with the Salmons/Thomas trade is that it'll make it harder for the Spurs to keep Manu. Salmons has guaranteed money next year that would otherwise go to Manu. If the Spurs keep Thomas, that is even more money on the budget. How do you keep Manu on top of all that?

It'd be hard to swallow but if you do the Salmons/Thomas deal, you might have to then trade Manu in a rent-a-bigman deal just because he'd be difficult to keep going forward and this is the last time to get value for him.

Manu would have to take a pay cut. The question is will he? I won't blame the spurs if they let Manu walk if he wants what he is getting now.

[ElNono]

I think the Spurs might have ways to get Manu back if he goes into free agency. They could deal to get him back later on. RJ's expiring could be tempting next season. It also depends on the contract that Manu can get as a FA. I think a reduction on his salary is going to happen, the question is how much less money...

[Blackjack]

The thing with Manu is, how much is his last contract about dollar-amount, and how much of it is about winning (a championship)?

The money they'd be paying Salmons is reasonable and not much more than they'd be needing to pay to fill the role next year. So if Manu's going to be looking for a comparable contract to what he's got now and they're already up there in salary as it is next year, it's hard to see them putting together a team with a real shot at a championship under those circumstances.

I don't think the Spurs can pay him what he'd like, which might force one or both of their hands.

[TD 21]

My only problem with the Salmons/Thomas trade is that it'll make it harder for the Spurs to keep Manu. Salmons has guaranteed money next year that would otherwise go to Manu. If the Spurs keep Thomas, that is even more money on the budget. How do you keep Manu on top of all that?

It'd be hard to swallow but if you do the Salmons/Thomas deal, you might have to then trade Manu in a rent-a-bigman deal just because he'd be difficult to keep going forward and this is the last time to get value for him.

This is how you do it. Whichever of McDyess, Thomas or Splitter the Spurs decide to trade, you pair that with Jefferson and you attempt to convince a team with partially guaranteed contracts in the final year of their deal to take him in the off season rather than waiting for the deadline. The Spurs could do the same with Salmons.

But I don't see Salmons as a necessity in this trade and either of the two scenarios I just presented aren't a given, which is why I think Pargo will be the second player coming back. This is not the only reason I think that, but it would be fitting with what "the Kings announcer said", as in backup PG. Other reasons: he makes peanuts, is expiring, buried on the Bulls bench, Spurs had interest two summers ago and would need PG insurance/depth if Mason is dealt.

[SenorSpur]

The Manu uncertainty is part of the reason WHY the Thomas/Salmons trade needs to happen. Personally, I think the two are mutually exclusive. Like anyone else, I'd love for Manu to stay. I just think he's going to test his value in free agency and will likely get a contract worth more than the Spurs can pay. I simply think he wont be back.

Salmons would help hedge against the loss of Manu. The colossal failure of the RJ trade also makes getting another swingman, of good all-around ability, a priority.

[Mel_13]

The Manu uncertainty is part of the reason WHY the Thomas/Salmons trade needs to happen. Personally, I think the two are mutually exclusive. Like anyone else, I'd love for Manu to stay. I just think he's going to test his value in free agency and will likely get a contract worth more than the Spurs can pay. I simply think he wont be back.

Salmons would help hedge against the loss of Manu. The colossal failure of the RJ trade also makes getting another swingman, of good all-around ability, a priority.

Manu's my favorite Spur and it will suck to see him in another NBA uniform, but it has become clear that his return is far from certain. For 1 yr at 5.8M, Salmons is a reasonable insurance policy.

[timvp]

This is how you do it. Whichever of McDyess, Thomas or Splitter the Spurs decide to trade, you pair that with Jefferson and you attempt to convince a team with partially guaranteed contracts in the final year of their deal to take him in the off season rather than waiting for the deadline.

Good luck with that. Any "partially guaranteed contracts" worth that much would be extremely valuable ... much more valuable than RJ + a big.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu's having kind of an anti-Dampier contract season so far. If the Spurs make a trade and suddenly win a title, is Manu more likely to stay than if they don't do anything and suck? In addition, what does one scenario or the other do to Manu's perceived value as a FA?

[Mel_13]

Manu's having kind of an anti-Dampier contract season so far. If the Spurs make a trade and suddenly win a title, is Manu more likely to stay than if they don't do anything and suck? In addition, what does one scenario or the other do to Manu's perceived value as a FA?


A deep playoff run by the Spurs would most likely include a major contribution from Manu and lead to an increase in his price tag.

[Obstructed_View]

A deep playoff run by the Spurs would most likely include a major contribution from Manu and lead to an increase in his price tag.

I simply wonder what drives him more. I can see a scenario where they turn into world beaters again and he suddenly decides that he's not going to leave. I get the feeling that the only reason he's had to consider leaving is because the Spurs have considered lowballing him.

[crc21209]

Official:

Source: Camby dealt to Blazers

ESPN.com news services

Two struggling teams looked to each other for help on Monday.

The Los Angeles Clippers agreed to trade Marcus Camby to the Portland Trail Blazers for Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake, a source close to the situation told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.

The 35-year-old Camby is second in the league in rebounding this season at 12.1 boards per game, to go along with 7.7 points. The Blazers have had a hole in the middle of their lineup since Gred Oden went down with a knee injury in December.

The 6-foot-9 Outlaw is averaging 9.9 points and 3.5 rebounds per game in his seventh season with Portland. Blake, a 6-3 guard, is putting up 7.6 points and 4.0 assists per game. He's coming off a 20-point, 12-assist game in a win over the Suns before the All-Star break.

Ric Bucher covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4917644

Camby is gone, the Spurs gotta move in on Thomas now...

[objective]

Camby is gone, the Spurs gotta move in on Thomas now...

the market for Thomas is drying up . . . Spurs could get lucky.

[Mel_13]

I simply wonder what drives him more. I can see a scenario where they turn into world beaters again and he suddenly decides that he's not going to leave. I get the feeling that the only reason he's had to consider leaving is because the Spurs have considered lowballing him.

He'll leave if they lowball him. If they go into into rebuild mode, they won't want him and he won't want to stay.

In short, Manu stays if the Spurs are still in win-now mode and they put a respectable offer on the table.

I'd still like to see them open negotiations once the trade deadline passes. Of course, there's still the whole issue of participation at the WC this summer.....

[crc21209]

Hopefully business picks up on Tuesday:

WojYahooNBA

GM's and agents expect flurry of activity Tuesday. Everyone was holding deck close today, including PHX and Cavs. Best offers are on way.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

[EricB]

God I would hate to be a GM this time of year.

Late late late late nights with crappy chinese food and long phone calls with other GMs haggling over contracts and talking with agents trying to sell them on proposed trades.

This time of year they definately earn their money...

[bigdog]

I really wonder what the Spurs are trying to do. I swear if they get smaller, I'm going to go completely insane.

[crc21209]

God I would hate to be a GM this time of year.

Late late late late nights with crappy chinese food and long phone calls with other GMs haggling over contracts and talking with agents trying to sell them on proposed trades.

This time of year they definately earn their money...

I was just thinking the same thing. Being a GM this time of year has to be a bitch, trying to figure out the teams needs, what to do, what not to do, which contracts/numbers match....

[timtonymanu]

Well RC better be getting to work.

[objective]

Seems like a great time of year to me. Give me the chinese food and the money to wreck a franchise like Ernie Grunfeld, or live off of playing 20 years ago like Larry Bird.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

God I would hate to be a GM this time of year.

Late late late late nights with crappy chinese food and long phone calls with other GMs haggling over contracts and talking with agents trying to sell them on proposed trades.

This time of year they definately earn their money...

Yep, getting paid upwards of a million dollars a year to play a real life fantasy GM is a rough life :rolleyes

[EricB]

Yep, getting paid upwards of a million dollars a year to play a real life fantasy GM is a rough life :rolleyes


Seriously, stop following me.

[EricB]

I was just thinking the same thing. Being a GM this time of year has to be a bitch, trying to figure out the teams needs, what to do, what not to do, which contracts/numbers match....

One wrong move and you wreck a franchise's season or seasons.

One big wrong move and your permanently out of the game of basketball and have to hope you get hired by ESPN to be an analyst (Matt Millen not withstanding of course)

[EricB]

Well RC better be getting to work.

I'm sure he's at his desk, phones plugged in computer on and doin his best.

[crc21209]

One wrong move and you wreck a franchise's season or seasons.

One big wrong move and your permanently out of the game of basketball and have to hope you get hired by ESPN to be an analyst (Matt Millen not withstanding of course)

Yup, one wrong move and you crush a team's, a city's, even players/coaches hopes. Yikes....

[objective]

yeah . . . but you can still strut around the block with your millions of dollars twirling your mustache until some other franchise hires you to destroy them like Grunfeld.

[NZ Spurs]

Yup, one wrong move and you crush a team's, a city's, even players/coaches hopes. Yikes....

Untill next year. mea culpa, dump contract, try again.

[EricB]

yeah . . . but you can still strut around the block with your millions of dollars twirling your mustache until some other franchise hires you to destroy them like Grunfeld.

Grunfeld has blackmail photos.

Thats my only explanation for him...

[crc21209]

Untill next year. mea culpa, dump contract, try again.

If you even last that long...

[crc21209]

Bulls Rumors

The Bulls are still on a hunt to move Tyrus Thomas and Kirk Hinrich. Sources are telling me that they are talking with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Los Angeles Lakers to acquire expirings such as Brian Cardinal, Adam Morrison, and Sasha Vujacic.

Chicago would send Tyrus Thomas to Minnesota and Kirk Hinrich to the Lakers and grab Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 2010 and well as the Lakers 2nd round pick in 2010. Kirk Hinrich would be the starting PG on a contending Lakers team and Tyrus would be the 6th man in Minnesota coming off the bench in favor of Kevin Love.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/346422-amare-for-jj-hickson-deal-done

[HarlemHeat37]

If there is any deal that involves helping the Lakers, it's probably going to happen..so I expect a 3-way deal with them getting Hinrich and some other team getting Thomas to get done..

[EricB]

FU Minnesota

Good GOD!

[Mr. Body]

Bulls Rumors

The Bulls are still on a hunt to move Tyrus Thomas and Kirk Hinrich. Sources are telling me that they are talking with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Los Angeles Lakers to acquire expirings such as Brian Cardinal, Adam Morrison, and Sasha Vujacic.

Chicago would send Tyrus Thomas to Minnesota and Kirk Hinrich to the Lakers and grab Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 2010 and well as the Lakers 2nd round pick in 2010. Kirk Hinrich would be the starting PG on a contending Lakers team and Tyrus would be the 6th man in Minnesota coming off the bench in favor of Kevin Love.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/346422-amare-for-jj-hickson-deal-done

That would be absolutely gangbusters by the Lakers and nearly as ridiculous as the Gasol trade.

[bigdog]

WTF. I swear if the Wolves steal Thomas like that, I'm going to be sooo pissed. And, it's probably likely to happen since it includes the Lakers. FML.

[timtonymanu]

Thomas to Wolves? Hinrich to LA?

Fuck this would suck.

[HarlemHeat37]

I just realized that Rambis is the Wolves coach..ohhhh deja-vu coming up..

[EricB]

i just realized that rambis is the wolves coach..ohhhh deja-vu coming up..

sob,.......

[crc21209]

I just realized that Rambis is the Wolves coach..ohhhh deja-vu coming up..

And then Rambis will hand the WC trophy to the Lakers the same way Jerry West did 2 years ago...:lol

[Mel_13]

Bulls Rumors

The Bulls are still on a hunt to move Tyrus Thomas and Kirk Hinrich. Sources are telling me that they are talking with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Los Angeles Lakers to acquire expirings such as Brian Cardinal, Adam Morrison, and Sasha Vujacic.

Chicago would send Tyrus Thomas to Minnesota and Kirk Hinrich to the Lakers and grab Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 2010 and well as the Lakers 2nd round pick in 2010. Kirk Hinrich would be the starting PG on a contending Lakers team and Tyrus would be the 6th man in Minnesota coming off the bench in favor of Kevin Love.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/346422-amare-for-jj-hickson-deal-done

Well, it benefits the Lakers so I guess it'll happen, but the report is wrong about Vujacic' contract. It has one more at 5.4M, so this trade creates 3.6M in cap space for Chicago this summer. Trading TT with Salmons would create 5.8M in cap space. We'll see.

Edit: Take note that the writer of the bleacherreport post is a first time contributor who calls himself whyso serious. The same post claims that his reliable sources have told him that Amare is on a plane to Cleveland. Might want to wait for a more reliable source on these stories.

[024]

the article has been deleted so... everyone stop panicking.

[mountainballer]

remember: everyone can write everything on bleacherreport. it's an open source network. and a lot of clueless wanna-be use it.

however, the Lakers interested in Hinrich has been reported for quite some time (already last summer). to guess this you don't need "inside" sources.
point is, the Bulls might very well be willing to hand Hinrich just for expirings and the Lakers might very well once more rob the league at this point. they could offer just Fisher and Morrison for Hinrich in a straight deal.

[Mel_13]

remember: everyone can write everything on bleacherreport. it's an open source network. and a lot of clueless wanna-be use it.

however, the Lakers interested in Hinrich has been reported for quite some time (already last summer). to guess this you don't need "inside" sources.
point is, the Bulls might very well be willing to hand Hinrich just for expirings and the Lakers might very well once more rob the league at this point. they could offer just Fisher and Morrison for Hinrich in a straight deal.

Guess we'll find out just how much Buss is willing to pay. They already owe 83M for just 8 players next year. If they add Hinrich for expiring deals and the lux tax line is around 65M next year, Buss could be looking at total payroll expenses approaching 125M. I don't think they'll trade for Hinrich unless they can offload Sasha or Walton in the process. We'll see.

[mountainballer]

that's right. on the other hand, it was reported that Kobe is pushing for Hinrich. and with all those rumors that the Cavs are prepared for a big move, Lakers as well might feel they should do something. the money for Hinrich is a lot considering the lux tax. not that much if they see him as the crucial move to get past the Cavs in the finals. Hinrich clearly helps to solve the only real weakness of this Lakers roster.

[HarlemHeat37]

It'll be interesting to see how it works with the 3rd team in the deal..

It was reported that the Bulls were asking for Shannon Brown in the deal, but I doubt they really care that much, probably just trying to play it tough in negotiations..

Another interesting thing is that the Chicago Daily Herald is saying that the Bulls are trying to expand the deal with Minnesota for Thomas..they're reportedly asking for Al Jefferson in the deal with Luol Deng in it on their side..

[mountainballer]

It'll be interesting to see how it works with the 3rd team in the deal..

It was reported that the Bulls were asking for Shannon Brown in the deal, but I doubt they really care that much, probably just trying to play it tough in negotiations..

Another interesting thing is that the Chicago Daily Herald is saying that the Bulls are trying to expand the deal with Minnesota for Thomas..they're reportedly asking for Al Jefferson in the deal with Luol Deng in it on their side..

if the Bulls try to create a blockbuster, Spurs could play a role. their several medium size expiring contracts are often helpful in such deals.
(of course, Deng for Jefferson works straight and does make some sense for both).
Jefferson for Deng and TT would need some additions. Spurs as the 3rd team that gets Gomes from the Wolves (Bonner to Chicago) is a somehow sensible scenario.
(if Wolves get Deng and TT, Gomes is the logical odd man out)
Gomes doesn't offer the qualities of TT on defense and regarding athleticism, but he would be an upgrade over Bonner.

or an extended 3 team deal:
Spurs get Gomes and Salmons
Bulls get Jefferson, Bonner, Mason
Wolves get Deng, TT, Finley (bought out)
all teams win.

edit: one more thought. there were rumors that Joe Johnson could be the prime target of the Bulls. such a trade would support such a theory. (they wouldn't need to trade Hinrich for cap space)
Rose-Hinrich-Johnson-Jefferson-Noah looks very good and very balanced on offense and defense, doesn't it?

[jermaine]

If you people think the Bulls don't want Mason as bad as the Spurs want TT you'll are crazy. They got rid of Gordon an havnt been the same since. They have a chance at another pure shooter in Ma$on.

[SenorSpur]

If you people think the Bulls don't want Mason as bad as the Spurs want TT you'll are crazy. They got rid of Gordon an havnt been the same since. They have a chance at another pure shooter in Ma$on.

I can definitely see how the Bulls would salivate over a shooter like Mason. If that report is true, perhaps that will push this Thomas deal "over the top" for the Spurs.

I do want them to go after Salmons too. However, I would be surprised if Pop parted with ALL of his trio of "one-trick ponies" (Bonner/Mason/Finley). Those guys that are pretty much shooters only - nothing else.

[Russ]

How would Pop coexist with Tyrus Thomas? Pop has a history of giving up on bigs who can't pick up his defensive schemes -- and almost none of them can.

[jermaine]

How would Pop coexist with Tyrus Thomas? Pop has a history of giving up on bigs who can't pick up his defensive schemes -- and almost none of them can.

POP!?! Fuck Pop, this muthafucka don't even play bigs! Finly at PF makes us a fucking joke of the NBA. POP!?! Fuck that fool! How many shots have he blocked lately, better yet how many charges has he taken!

[TJastal]

How would Pop coexist with Tyrus Thomas? Pop has a history of giving up on bigs who can't pick up his defensive schemes -- and almost none of them can.

Might take awhile but he'd get it eventually.. and he'd at least be a physical presence around the rim in the meantime, which the spurs are in desperate need of right now.

It took McDyess half a year to finally look like he understood what he was supposed to do out there, it would probably take Thomas until the 2nd round of the playoffs or more.

[apalisoc_9]

POP!?! Fuck Pop, this muthafucka don't even play bigs! Finly at PF makes us a fucking joke of the NBA. POP!?! Fuck that fool! How many shots have he blocked lately, better yet how many charges has he taken!

Fuck You.

I don't think haslem would add that much to this team. he is going to be an upgrade but is not going to make us a contender. He is old and probably wont see that much playing time anyway.

Thomas would be great.The guy is a versatiule defender and and is young.

[Chieflion]

Might take awhile but he'd get it eventually.. and he'd at least be a physical presence around the rim in the meantime, which the spurs are in desperate need of right now.

It took McDyess half a year to finally look like he understood what he was supposed to do out there, it would probably take Thomas until the 2nd round of the playoffs or more.
Pop would be giving the cold turkey treatment to Tyrus before that, if the Spurs even make it to the 2nd round.

[TJastal]

Pop would be giving the cold turkey treatment to Tyrus before that, if the Spurs even make it to the 2nd round.

hahaha... you're probably right. Pop has little patience for defensive lapses.

You'd think though that between Duncan and Dice giving him constant pointers in game and out, he'd be getting enough of a crash course to figure things out by then though.

[Chomag]

Pop would be giving the cold turkey treatment to Tyrus before that, if the Spurs even make it to the 2nd round.

Yep, no different then the Gooden treatment is what I'm worried about this trade.

[dbestpro]

Pop would be giving the cold turkey treatment to Tyrus before that, if the Spurs even make it to the 2nd round.

This is why I am on the ledge as to giving up this season. It has nothing to do with trades or the current roster. Pops rotations and love of small ball is what makes me feel we have very little chance with or without a trade.

[Chomag]

Yep, no different then the Gooden treatment is what I'm worried about this trade.

Hmm, it's not that I'm saying that Pop has anything to do with the downfall... ok actualy I am. :lol

[Mel_13]

hahaha... you're probably right. Pop has little patience for defensive lapses.

You'd think though that between Duncan and Dice giving him constant pointers in game and out, he'd be getting enough of a crash course to figure things out by then though.

You'd also think that he would have figured out enough things over four years for his team to want to retain his services.

Thomas would have to produce, plain and simple. Blair's production kept him in the rotation despite early season defensive lapses and foul troubles. Blair has demonstrated great aptitude and a willingness to accept coaching and he has noticeably improved in both areas as the year has progressed. Thomas will make some bonehead plays, but he'll have to play to his strengths, go get rebounds and block shots, and show the same willingness to follow coaching priorities that Blair has.

When you look at the worst case scenario with Thomas, you have to accept that he may never get it. Chicago passed on LaMarcus Aldridge to take this kid, paid him nearly 15M over four years, and is ready to let him go for pennies on the dollar. So in the worst case a change of scenery makes no difference and he follows Stromile Swift's career path out of the league. In the best case scenario, the change in scenery makes all the difference in the world and he blossoms like Jermaine O'Neal did in Indiana.

[SenorSpur]

Might take awhile but he'd get it eventually.. and he'd at least be a physical presence around the rim in the meantime, which the spurs are in desperate need of right now.

It took McDyess half a year to finally look like he understood what he was supposed to do out there, it would probably take Thomas until the 2nd round of the playoffs or more.

Pop had better "get over himself". Gone are the days where he could simply plug in veterans into the mix, around his Big Three, and have it work like a charm. With the Spurs failing to field a team that can effectively challenge the Fakers this year and for the forseeable future, combined with their aging core, and with Manu's eminent departure this summer, the Spurs will be staring at an eventual rebuild. Probably sooner than most would like to believe.

With the exception of the Mavs, all other Western Conference contenders have younger, more athletic talent than the Spurs. They're not going away. All of this means the Spurs will have step up the process of getting younger, quicker and more athletic. This means importing more younger players into the mix. Tyrus Thomas would be part of such a movement.

Consequently, Pop is going to have to earn his money. He's going to actually start having to coach and teach players - which means exhibiting some degree of patience and living with some early mistakes. Jerry Sloan , perhaps even more of a stickler for process and discipline as Pop, went through the exact same thing for a couple of seasons, following the end of the Stockton/Malone era. He had to stomach the inconsistencies and mistakes of the younger players. Now the Jazz are back as perennial contenders.

I've said it before, Pop needs to prepare to do the same thing. If he doesn't have the "stomach for the fight" - then he should exit stage left.

[Mel_13]

Consequently, Pop is going to have to earn his money. He's going to actually start having to coach and teach players - which means exhibiting some degree of patience and living with some early mistakes. Jerry Sloan , perhaps even more of a stickler for process and discipline as Pop, went through the exact same thing for a couple of seasons, following the end of the Stockton/Malone era. He had to stomach the inconsistencies and mistakes of the younger players. Now the Jazz are back as perennial contenders.

Good analogy, but as you said Sloan didn't change until after Stockton and Malone had retired. Pop still sees Tim, Tony, and Manu out there. And to be fair, he already has a rookie and 2nd year player among the top 6 or 7 players in the rotation. Both young men deserve credit for their hard work, but both have clearly improved from the coaching they have received since joining the Spurs.

[dbestpro]

Good analogy, but as you said Sloan didn't change until after Stockton and Malone had retired. Pop still sees Tim, Tony, and Manu out there. And to be fair, he already has a rookie and 2nd year player among the top 6 or 7 players in the rotation. Both young men deserve credit for their hard work, but both have clearly improved from the coaching they have received since joining the Spurs.

Have they improved due to the coaching or due to getting minutes?

[TJastal]

You'd also think that he would have figured out enough things over four years for his team to want to retain his services.

Thomas would have to produce, plain and simple. Blair's production kept him in the rotation despite early season defensive lapses and foul troubles. Blair has demonstrated great aptitude and a willingness to accept coaching and he has noticeably improved in both areas as the year has progressed. Thomas will make some bonehead plays, but he'll have to play to his strengths, go get rebounds and block shots, and show the same willingness to follow coaching priorities that Blair has.

When you look at the worst case scenario with Thomas, you have to accept that he may never get it. Chicago passed on LaMarcus Aldridge to take this kid, paid him nearly 15M over four years, and is ready to let him go for pennies on the dollar. So in the worst case a change of scenery makes no difference and he follows Stromile Swift's career path out of the league. In the best case scenario, the change in scenery makes all the difference in the world and he blossoms like Jermaine O'Neal did in Indiana.

I think the whole "Thomas is bonehead so CHI is desperate to get rid of him" theory is waaaaaay overblown. I recall watching the guy in last year's playoffs
and he was a MAJOR defensive factor for them and even gave them some decent offense (hit a game winning shot even). I'll take a proven playoff performing "bonehead" anyday.

Fact of the matter is if Taj Gibson had not blossomed into one of the league's best young prospects there is no talk of trading Thomas. As much as Del Negro doesn't care for Tyrus Thomas, without Taj Gibson around he is their starting PF and there is no talk of trades.

And another fact people keep forgetting is the bulls are looking to shed salary to get into the Dwayne Wade / Bosh / Lebron sweepstakes. They have a young nucleus there that could be a very attractive place for a superstar to go this summer. Why pay Thomas 5m when you can shed 4m in salary and pay Gibson 1m for a very similar player? That 4m could be the difference in getting Dwayne Wade or not.

[TJastal]

Have they improved due to the coaching or due to getting minutes?

LOL I was just going to reply to the same thread. Pop's comment of Blair sticks out in my mind, the one about him not teaching Blair a thing out on the court and just letting Blair do his thing.

:lol

[Mel_13]

Have they improved due to the coaching or due to getting minutes?

1. Talent

2. Aptitude

3. Work ethic

4. Willingness to accept coaching

5. Good coaches

Blair and Hill have both applied all of those to earn their minutes.

Are you really convinced that a significant part of their development is not the result of applying lessons learned from the team's coaches?

[Mel_13]

I think the whole "Thomas is bonehead so CHI is desperate to get rid of him" theory is waaaaaay overblown. I recall watching the guy in last year's playoffs
and he was a MAJOR defensive factor for them and even gave them some decent offense (hit a game winning shot even). I'll take a proven playoff performing "bonehead" anyday.

Fact of the matter is if Taj Gibson had not blossomed into one of the league's best young prospects there is no talk of trading Thomas. As much as Del Negro doesn't care for Tyrus Thomas, without Taj Gibson around he is their starting PF and there is no talk of trades.

And another fact people keep forgetting is the bulls are looking to shed salary to get into the Dwayne Wade / Bosh / Lebron sweepstakes. They have a young nucleus there that could be a very attractive place for a superstar to go this summer. Why pay Thomas 5m when you can shed 4m in salary and pay Gibson 1m for a very similar player? That 4m could be the difference in getting Dwayne Wade or not.

He was the 4th pick in the 2006 draft. If he had developed as expected when they drafted him, he would have received the sort of extension that players like Roy, Aldridge, and Rondo received this summer. No matter how you slice it, Thomas has been a massive disappointment to Chicago.

[Mel_13]

LOL I was just going to reply to the same thread. Pop's comment of Blair sticks out in my mind, the one about him not teaching Blair a thing out on the court and just letting Blair do his thing.

:lol

That was the first part of the quote. Have you forgotten the second part or Blair's own comments about how much benefit he has received from the coaching staff.

[TJastal]

He was the 4th pick in the 2006 draft. If he had developed as expected when they drafted him, he would have received the sort of extension that players like Roy, Aldridge, and Rondo received this summer. No matter how you slice it, Thomas has been a massive disappointment to Chicago.

/shrug

I don't see how averages of 10pts / 6reb / 3blks / 1stl / 1ast and great defense in 28 minutes a game in last year's playoffs can be considered a "massive dissappointment".

[Mel_13]

/shrug

I don't see how averages of 10pts / 6reb / 3blks / 1stl / 1ast and great defense in 28 minutes a game in last year's playoffs can be considered a "massive dissappointment".

If they valued his contribution, they would have extended him over the summer.

Anyway, I'm all for acquiring Thomas. It's a low risk/high reward move. I'm just being realistic. Tyrus Thomas is not the first ultra-athletic player with limited prior basketball experience who were lottery picks that failed to fulfill their potential with the team that drafted him. Most similar players that preceded him followed the Stromile Swift example and never were able to make it in the NBA. Of course, there is the case of Jermaine O'Neal, who floundered in Portland and then became an All-Star in Indy.

At 23 he's definitely worth the risk. The downside associated with the acquisition is small, but there are obvious and legitimate reasons to temper expectations. Aside from Chicago's willingness to let him go, his availability has hardly provoked a bidding war among teams anxious to obtain him. That's just the reality of the situation.

[SenorSpur]

Another thing about Thomas, and this is certainly not meant to be a "hall pass" for him. Some players develop better in a different environment. Look at the chaos the Bulls organizaion has been in since Thomas was drafted. I believe Skiles was the coach at the time he was drafted. He was fired Christmas of '08. Del Negro comes in and I'm just not sure the coaching experience or respect level is there. It certainly wouldn't be the same as in San Antonio.

Organizational stability, good coaching and patience are usually a key components in the development of many young players. Thomas would get that in San Antonio. The pressure would then be on him to accept responsibility for his own growth.

[Mel_13]

Organizational stability, good coaching and patience are usually a key components in the development of many young players. Thomas would get that in San Antonio. The pressure would then be on him to accept responsibility for his own growth.

What follows is not directed at you, but your words provoked the thought.


The environment you describe that could properly nurture someone like Thomas and allow him to realize his full potential has been used here through the years as part of campaigns to acquire troubled, yet talented, players like Stephen Jackson and J.R. Smith. Yet many of the very same posters will then turn around and skewer Pop for his supposed inability to reach or utilize young players. I suppose I don't have a problem with people viewing San Antonio as a place that can turn a problem child into a model citizen or others that hold the view that Pop won't give young players a chance. I am amazed that so many seem to hold both views.

[TJastal]

What follows is not directed at you, but your words provoked the thought.


The environment you describe that could properly nurture someone like Thomas and allow him to realize his full potential has been used here through the years as part of campaigns to acquire troubled, yet talented, players like Stephen Jackson and J.R. Smith. Yet many of the very same posters will then turn around and skewer Pop for his supposed inability to reach or utilize young players. I suppose I don't have a problem with people viewing San Antonio as a place that can turn a problem child into a model citizen or others that hold the view that Pop won't give young players a chance. I am amazed that so many seem to hold both views.

Honestly, I'd be much more confident that the veteran bigs on the teams (Duncan/Dice/Ratliff) and their influence would be able to turn a "troubled" player around before I'd have faith in Pop.

If anything, Pop's lack of patience, random tirades and lineup changes would have a negative effect more than anything.

[SenorSpur]

Honestly, I'd be much more confident that the veteran bigs on the teams (Duncan/Dice/Ratliff) and their influence would be able to turn a "troubled" player around before I'd have faith in Pop.

If anything, Pop's lack of patience, random tirades and lineup changes would have a negative effect more than anything.

That was the point I was making earlier. Pop is used to and prefers veteran players, who are not as flawed as younger players.

Going forward into the next year or three, he's got to exhibit more of a patient teacher role, than he probably ever has before.

[Mel_13]

Honestly, I'd be much more confident that the veteran bigs on the teams (Duncan/Dice/Ratliff) and their influence would be able to turn a "troubled" player around before I'd have faith in Pop.

If anything, Pop's lack of patience, random tirades and lineup changes would have a negative effect more than anything.

Thanks for making my point.

[Spurs Brazil]

Michael (Chicago)


Chad - what is best case scenario for the Bulls at the moment? I have a sinking feeling Pax and management are going to stand pat another year without making a move they've talked about for years.

Chad Ford (1:30 PM)


They were working with LA in an effort to recruit a third team to take on Sasha Vujacic's contract in a Kirk Hinrich deal. Portland was a possibility, but obviously they are out now. Lakers like Hinrich, but won't trade just expiring contracts for him. Not sure who else is really in the mix for Hinrich. The Bucks could be another trade partner for the Bulls. There is some interest in a deal that would send the Bucks expiring contracts for Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30864

[The Truth #6]

That was the point I was making earlier. Pop is used to and prefers veteran players, who are not as flawed as younger players.

Going forward into the next year or three, he's got to exhibit more of a patient teacher role, than he probably ever has before.

I agree, and based on past evidence I don't think Pop is up for that job. The general trend has been going in the opposite direction though there have been a few occasional exceptions. But given how bad our roster is - there would have to be a few exceptions now and then. I still don't think teaching young players or developing young players is a focus for Pop.

Which is why the Thomas trade talk seems like a head scratcher. Pop has no patience for Ian, who is actually rather humble and knows the system. I don't see why Pop would be able to have a sustained different approach toward Thomas.

Of course, we could all be misreading this situation as far as what Thomas is in question. Pop probably wants to go under the radar and get Kurt Thomas because he was a monster in the 99 Finals.

[SequSpur]

Thomas is 6'10...undersized...again....

next...

[yavozerb]

Thomas is 6'10...undersized...again....

next...

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyrus-Thomas-511/

next..:nope

[Blackjack]

Michael (Chicago)


Chad - what is best case scenario for the Bulls at the moment? I have a sinking feeling Pax and management are going to stand pat another year without making a move they've talked about for years.

Chad Ford (1:30 PM)


They were working with LA in an effort to recruit a third team to take on Sasha Vujacic's contract in a Kirk Hinrich deal. Portland was a possibility, but obviously they are out now. Lakers like Hinrich, but won't trade just expiring contracts for him. Not sure who else is really in the mix for Hinrich. The Bucks could be another trade partner for the Bulls. There is some interest in a deal that would send the Bucks expiring contracts for Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30864

So maybe the Spurs would have to take on Salmons, after all . . .

Wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit, but it might be a deal-breaker for the Spurs.

[TJastal]

Thomas is a strong defender that can hold his own in the paint. I recently watched him guard Dwight Howard 1 vs 1 and he not only held his ground (Howard couldn't back him down at all) he forced Howard into a turnover.

In addition, he only looked an inch shorter than Howard. So I'm guessing he has grown taller from his draft day height of 6'8"

[SenorSpur]

Michael (Chicago)


Chad - what is best case scenario for the Bulls at the moment? I have a sinking feeling Pax and management are going to stand pat another year without making a move they've talked about for years.

Chad Ford (1:30 PM)


They were working with LA in an effort to recruit a third team to take on Sasha Vujacic's contract in a Kirk Hinrich deal. Portland was a possibility, but obviously they are out now. Lakers like Hinrich, but won't trade just expiring contracts for him. Not sure who else is really in the mix for Hinrich. The Bucks could be another trade partner for the Bulls. There is some interest in a deal that would send the Bucks expiring contracts for Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30864

Get it done RC!

[Blackjack]

He's not a great on-ball defender, despite a good possession or two you saw against Howard. He's spectacular, at times, as a weakside defender and has great versatility out on the floor hedging, switching and disrupting a halfcourt offense, though -- Tim is, and has to be, the Spurs' resident 7-foot shotblocker everyone's been clamoring for.

He's 6-9, at best, in the right pair of shoes, but his length (greater wingspan than Blair) and explosive athleticism are more important than an inch or so of height -- you don't block or rebound a shot with your head, as Sean likes to say.

[Bruno]

If Spurs have trades on the table for both Thomas and Haslem, I rather see them going after Haslem.

[Blackjack]

I'd go Thomas -- more upside, more versatility and not as duplicative to 'Dyess.

[mountainballer]

I'd go Thomas -- more upside, more versatility and not as duplicative to 'Dyess.

I see your point, but I also think it would be Haslem. he has written Spurs material all over him. and I think he would help more immediately. he is what Dice was five years ago and Dice from 5 years back is what the Spurs needed when they acquired the Dice from today.

[Blackjack]

I'm just not sold on Haslem being that huge of an upgrade or improving their chances all that much this year (I really don't see any of these moves discussed as being championship aspirational), so I tend to side with the youth and upside.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would be a lot happier with Haslem if we could somehow get Wright in the deal, although that's probably unrealistic..I wouldn't really like Haslem all that much by himself, it still doesn't solve our athleticism issues up front, unless Pop has an epiphany about Ian..

[5in10]

I'm just not sold on Haslem being that huge of an upgrade or improving their chances all that much this year (I really don't see any of these moves discussed as being championship aspirational), so I tend to side with the youth and upside.

This. TT at least gives us an answer for players like odom, david west, dirk, and other mobile pfs. Something we have been lacking for far too long.

[HarlemHeat37]

This. TT at least gives us an answer for players like odom, david west, dirk, and other mobile pfs. Something we have been lacking for far too long.

I'm not completely sold on getting Haslem, but these are the types of players he defends too..

[Mel_13]

I'm not completely sold on getting Haslem, but these are the types of players he defends too..

hmm...Only 29, I thought he was much older.

[blkroadrunners]

hmm...Only 29, I thought he was much older.

He was undrafted in 2003 (same class as Wade, Lebron, Bosh, etc.), but unlike most of the others, he stayed at Florida for all 4 years.

[Blackjack]

Haslem would be a better, more solid option for the here and now. But I suppose what you think that means for the Spurs, in the grand scheme of things, sways the thinking deciding between the two.

I don't believe Haslem changes the outcome for this year all that much, and unless they'd rather have him than 'Dyess moving forward, I'd rather take a shot on Thomas.

[SenorSpur]

I'd go Thomas -- more upside, more versatility and not as duplicative to 'Dyess.

Exactly. We've seen the results of watching Dice chase the likes of LaMarcus Aldridge, Kenyon Martin, Jeff Green, Lamar Odom and Dirk - and the results were not favorable at all.

Blackjack, you have it correct. The Spurs do not need more older, +30 frontline players. They need more younger, versatile players with upside - and they need to put them on the floor.

[objective]

if it involves dumping a 1st for either of these 1-year rentals (plus a QO for TT), then I'd rather the Spurs look elsewhere

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Would you guys rather have Haslem and Wright or Thomas and Salmons?

[HarlemHeat37]

Again, while I'm not completely sold on getting Haslem, he DOES defend those PFs that we have trouble with..

[blkroadrunners]

I'd go Thomas -- more upside, more versatility and not as duplicative to 'Dyess.

Tyrus would make a whole lot more sense, IMO as well. Nothing I have against Haslem, but Haslem has a very similar game to that of McDyess (difference being Haslem is a few years younger).

TT at least brings a different package to the Spurs regular rotation in which they need - athleticism in the frontcourt, along w/ better weak-side defense.

Of course Haslem is more of an assurance move, in a sense of his attitude compared to Thomas.

[Blackjack]

If the Knicks trade with Houston happens, Larry Hughes will be in the package -- not Al Harrington, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Wasn't it Harrington that was thought to be in play with Chicago prior?:(

[blkroadrunners]

Would you guys rather have Haslem and Wright or Thomas and Salmons?

Thomas and Salmons.

[SenorSpur]

Would you guys rather have Haslem and Wright or Thomas and Salmons?

It's an easy choice IMO - Thomas and Salmons.

[Pistons < Spurs]

WojYahooNBA

Y! sources: Spurs trying to trade Antonio McDyess as prelude to making deal for Chicago's Tyrus Thomas: http://tinyurl.com/yku4t3e

[Blackjack]

Would you guys rather have Haslem and Wright or Thomas and Salmons?

The latter -- I prefer Thomas to Haslem (given skillset and upside) and Salmons to Wright (better insurance for RJ's play -- possibly Manu's departure), even if I do prefer Dorell to Johnny defensively.

Thomas and Salmons still, in my view, best addresses the team's needs in the here-and-now, while maintaining an eye towards the future.

[Blackjack]

:wow

Some real news . . .

So do they maybe think that highly of Thomas or are they conceding that this year's become more about next year and giving minutes to Tyrus would aid in that effort?

Maybe they want Haslem and Thomas?

[benefactor]

Wow...I guess the youth movement is on. It's about damn time.

[benefactor]

I wonder if this means they also plan on taking Salmons.

[Mel_13]

:wow

Some real news . . .

Sorta puts the lie to all the commentary that the Spurs were not trying to make real changes. Now we'll see if they can find the right partners to make the deals.

While I can't really ever feel bad for multimillionaire athletes, it would kind of suck for Dice to be shipped out so soon after he finally made it to San Antonio. He's a class act.

[Ditty]

ehh only if the spurs go for another big man maybe blatche for mihinmi and bonner and the spurs trade mason to memphis for sam young and darrel arthur or maybe a future first round pick

[benefactor]

Sorta puts the lie to all the commentary that the Spurs were not trying to make real changes. Now we'll see if they can find the right partners to make the deals.

While I can't really ever feel bad for multimillionaire athletes, it would kind of suck for Dice to be shipped out so soon after he finally made it to San Antonio. He's a class act.
The Spurs gave him a nice deal...and if he goes to Denver he will still have a chance to contend for that ring. It works all the way around.

[Blackjack]

Agree about 'Dyess -- he really is what we've come to expect and hope a Spurs player to be.

But, damn, the guy's never been someone blessed with great fortune (relatively speaking) and this, along with the injuries and late arrival to Detroit, would seem par for the course.

That's unless he ends up in Denver, which could turn that around . . .

[blkroadrunners]

Interesting... I thought the Bulls were looking for expiring contracts in a deal... yet they're considering McDyess' contract (unless there's a 3rd team involved of course)?

[Blackjack]

It's a prelude to a Thomas deal, not a one-for-one type move.

[Mel_13]

Interesting... I thought the Bulls were looking for expiring contracts in a deal... yet they're considering McDyess' contract?

No.

The article says the Spurs are trying to trade Dyess for expiring deals as a precursor to acquiring Thomas.

[jesterbobman]

I think it'd be a three team deal, with Denver or someone else getting Dyess, expirings to Chicago and Ty to us.

[blkroadrunners]

No.

The article says the Spurs are trying to trade Dyess for expiring deals as a precursor to acquiring Thomas.


It's a prelude to a Thomas deal, not a one-for-one type move.

Yea, I misread that part. :downspin:

[Blackjack]

So do they maybe think that highly of Thomas or are they conceding that this year's become more about next year and giving minutes to Tyrus would aid in that effort?

Maybe they want Haslem and Thomas?

[blkroadrunners]

I think it'd be a three team deal, with Denver or someone else getting Dyess, expirings to Chicago and Ty to us.

Yea, that would make more sense.

[objective]

As disappointing as Dice has been . . . he'd be great for Denver. They would just use him as a spot player, 10-15 minutes behind Martin, Nene and Anderson. He wouldn't be counted on like he is in San Antonio.

Don't know that Denver has anything the Spurs want though.

[Blackjack]

The way it was said to be a prelude gives you the impression of a separate deal.

I know Woj said sending him to Denver wouldn't make much sense from a competitors standpoint, but the Spurs have shown they do right by the player more often than not (see: Scola).

I don't think they'd have a problem sending 'Dyess to a contender, so long as it makes sense for their game plan.

[Boss]

It sounds like the Spurs and Bulls have a deal for Thomas the Spurs r just trying to unload Mcdyess 1st.

It wouldn't make much sense to trade Mcdyess 1st just to try to bid for Thomas and then possibly lose out on him

[objective]

The Pop-Spurs also gave Rodman to the Bulls when all the Bulls needed was a PF. The only other offer was Todd Day, but the big picture was clear even to me as a kid: Rodman + Bulls = titles.

[Mel_13]

It sounds like the Spurs and Bulls have a deal for Thomas the Spurs r just trying to unload Mcdyess 1st.

It wouldn't make much sense to trade Mcdyess 1st just to try to bid for Thomas and then possibly lose out on him

Spurs would be able to make Thomas a restricted FA by tendering the necessary Qualifying Offer this summer. They would then have the right to match any offer sheet he receives.

[Blackjack]

Contrary to popular belief, the Spurs, with Pop at the helm, have done right by their players more often than not. Whether it's the Raja Bell's of the world, Scola or someone like Rodman, they seem to believe in some sort of Karma.

[Mel_13]

The way it was said to be a prelude gives you the impression of a separate deal.

I know Woj said sending him to Denver wouldn't make much sense from a competitors standpoint, but the Spurs have shown they do right by the player more often than not (see: Scola).

I don't think they'd have a problem sending 'Dyess to a contender, so long as it makes sense for their game plan.

Once you decide to move Dice to clear the way for Thomas you have switched your focus from this year to next year and beyond. So yeah, I wouldn't see strengthening Denver as much of an impediment to a deal.

[SenorSpur]

I like it. I like the strategy a lot.

I remember reading there was some passing interest in Dice from Denver. However, I do not know what the Spurs would want from the Nuggets in return or if they're even willing to deal within the conference.

[Creation88]

i do not understand the LOVE for Tyrus Thomas? he's unproven, a headcase, and unpredictable. why does everyone think he's a sure thing to fit here?

we tried that before, his name is Richard Jefferson.

[Mel_13]

I think it'd be a three team deal, with Denver or someone else getting Dyess, expirings to Chicago and Ty to us.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygba36m

[Blackjack]

It'd be nice if the Spurs could recoup a first-rounder, should they have to include theirs in a Thomas trade . . .

[Admidave50]

I like it. I like the strategy a lot.

I remember reading there was some passing interest in Dice from Denver. However, I do not know what the Spurs would want from the Nuggets in return or if they're even willing to deal within the conference.

I doesn't make much sense for the Spurs to trade him to Denver, once again the Blazers/Clippers isn't very logical for the Blazers but it still hapened.

[Boss]

Why help Denver out? The Bobcats have been said to want to add a 4 man who can stretch the floor and Larry Brown loves Mcdyess. If we could get DJ Augestine + a pick that would be great before getting TT.

[Blackjack]

It doesn't have to be Denver, they've just been linked to him and it'd be a suitable place for to send him -- they're not going to screw 'Dyess over.

Charlotte and Brown makes some sense, though, and they could put together a better offer -- it's not out of the realm.

[Boss]

Spurs would be able to make Thomas a restricted FA by tendering the necessary Qualifying Offer this summer. They would then have the right to match any offer sheet he receives.


I'm talking about biding against other teams that are interested in trading for Thomas not bidding for him when he becomes a free agent. Yes I'm fully aware how a restricted free agent works and If the Spurs get him in a trade they will have full control to retain him.

[SenorSpur]

i do not understand the LOVE for Tyrus Thomas? he's unproven, a headcase, and unpredictable. why does everyone think he's a sure thing to fit here?

we tried that before, his name is Richard Jefferson.

Thomas is an young, explosive, athletic PF who can rebound and defend. Yes, he's been a bit of a head case. If he accepts coaching, get playing time to develop, then the Spurs would've just added a young lottery talent to their frontline. They can then resign him next year to a reasonable contract.

On the other hand, if it turns out he doesn't fit, they can use him as an asset and flip him later for something else. That's the benefit of having a young player with upside.

[crc21209]

Thomas is an young, explosive, athletic PF who can rebound and defend. Yes, he's been a bit of a head case. If he accepts coaching, get playing time to develop, then the Spurs would've just added a young lottery talent to their frontline. They can then resign him next year to a reasonable contract.

On the other hand, if it turns out he doesn't fit, they can use him as an asset and flip him later for something else. That's the benefit of having a young player with upside.

On the Scott Van Pelt show on ESPN Radio he and another guy were talking about Tyrus Thomas and where he could/should possibly go and the other guy on the show stated that Thomas would thrive on a team with veteran leadership and a veteran coach...hmmmm...ring a bell?

[Boss]

It doesn't have to be Denver, they've just been linked to him and it'd be a suitable place for to send him -- they're not going to screw 'Dyess over.

Charlotte and Brown makes some sense, though, and they could put together a better offer -- it's not out of the realm.

Yes trading Mcdyess isn't that he's a cancer to the team and I do believe Spurs r not trying to screw him over but the Spurs usually don't help out other contenders or rivals (other than the Scola mistake). I don't think sending mcdyess to the Bobcats is a bad thing for him.

It appears the idea to move Mcdyess is to clear out some $ in the following yrs to resign Thomas. So If u can get Augestine as a cheap ivestment then possible expirings or a pick I think it would be great.

[Mhak]

I saw this at Rumors: Bulls want Jefferson for Luol Deng (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors) Espn.

Can anybody that has Espn Insider post this.. I was wondering which Jefferson it is!!!

Thanks

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

i like this, but dyess is a good guy

[Blackjack]

I saw this at Rumors: Bulls want Jefferson for Luol Deng (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors) Espn.

Can anybody that has Espn Insider post this.. I was wondering which Jefferson it is!!!

Thanks


Chad Ford: The Wolves continue to rebuff teams looking into the availability of Al Jefferson.

A source close to the process told ESPN.com that the Wolves recently said no to a potential Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas for Jefferson deal, telling the Bulls that they aren't going to move Jefferson by the trade deadline, which is consistent with what Wolves GM David Kahn has been saying for weeks. However, a Deng-and-Thomas deal was the most realistic trade scenario we've heard for Jefferson.

Jefferson was one of the first big names to get mentioned in trade deadline buzz when word came out that the Pacers had rebuffed an offer of Jefferson for Danny Granger. Since then, Kahn has been adamant that he's not trading any member of his young core by the trade deadline. Kahn has maintained he wants an entire season to evaluate the talent he has on the roster.

[objective]

I saw this at Rumors: Bulls want Jefferson for Luol Deng (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors) Espn.

Can anybody that has Espn Insider post this.. I was wondering which Jefferson it is!!!

Thanks

It was Deng+Tyrus for Al Jefferson and the Timberwolves rejected it.

[SenorSpur]

I saw this at Rumors: Bulls want Jefferson for Luol Deng (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors) Espn.

Can anybody that has Espn Insider post this.. I was wondering which Jefferson it is!!!

Thanks

I'm sure this has to be Al Jefferson. The Wolves and Bulls have had some discussion on how they can acquire Thomas.

Trust me, if the Spurs found any takers AT ALL for RJ, they'd do the deal yesterday.

[Ice009]

I saw this at Rumors: Bulls want Jefferson for Luol Deng (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors) Espn.

Can anybody that has Espn Insider post this.. I was wondering which Jefferson it is!!!

Thanks

It's not RJ.

[scottspurs]

So what are the chances Thomas suits up tonight when the Bulls play the Knicks?

If he doesn't play chances are he is traded tonight or tomorrow morning.

[TD 21]

Good luck with that. Any "partially guaranteed contracts" worth that much would be extremely valuable ... much more valuable than RJ + a big.

That's why I said there was no guarantee that that would happen. In fact, I agree that it's unlikely, but you asked for a scenario whereby that was possible, so I presented one.


Thomas is a strong defender that can hold his own in the paint. I recently watched him guard Dwight Howard 1 vs 1 and he not only held his ground (Howard couldn't back him down at all) he forced Howard into a turnover.

In addition, he only looked an inch shorter than Howard. So I'm guessing he has grown taller from his draft day height of 6'8"

Thomas' listing went from 6-8 215 to 6-9 215 to 6-10 225. While he may be 6-9 225, I don't buy for a second that he's 6-10. He's a slightly undersized PF who can't play C, but his length (I believe his wingspan is 7-4) and athleticism are off the charts. He's easily a top ten athlete in the league, maybe even top five.

The upside is he matures and learns to harness hit incredible physical gifts and the Spurs end up with a potential game changer defensively. The downside is he stays what he is now, which is, for all his warts, still a decent player.


He's not a great on-ball defender, despite a good possession or two you saw against Howard. He's spectacular, at times, as a weakside defender and has great versatility out on the floor hedging, switching and disrupting a halfcourt offense, though -- Tim is, and has to be, the Spurs' resident 7-foot shotblocker everyone's been clamoring for.

He's 6-9, at best, in the right pair of shoes, but his length (greater wingspan than Blair) and explosive athleticism are more important than an inch or so of height -- you don't block or rebound a shot with your head, as Sean likes to say.

True as that is, can Thomas, for all his length, stop Gasol from easily scoring up over the top of him?

That being said, the Spurs need to stop thinking solely about matching up with the Lakers and focus on the growing number of teams either better than them or in their league. Thomas would theoretically help in a lot of match-ups against those teams (Nowitzki, Boozer, Aldridge, West, I know what I just said, but Odom, maybe even the long three's like Durant) and ultimately, those are some of the teams the Spurs are going to have to beat just to get to the Lakers.

[StoneBuddha]

That being said, the Spurs need to stop thinking solely about matching up with the Lakers and focus on the growing number of teams either better than them or in their league. Thomas would theoretically help in a lot of match-ups against those teams (Nowitzki, Boozer, Aldridge, West, I know what I just said, but Odom, maybe even the long three's like Durant) and ultimately, those are some of the teams the Spurs are going to have to beat just to get to the Lakers.

True this. At this point, we just need to make the team better and worry about the Lakers second.

[ace3g]

STEIN_LINE_HQ

Just filed to ESPN.com: Rockets narrow T-Mac choices to offers from Knicks and Bulls and plan to make their choice Wednesday. Link to come

hopefully the rockets choose the Knicks and Harrington is involved because:

1st if Harrington is involved they can't go after Tyrus

2, dont' want the bulls involved because Tyrus, Salmons, and others would have to be involved

[lennyalderette]

I know some of yall are going to say thread fail or whatever but the tyrus thomas trade thread is pretty dead right now and i wanted you guys to see this video from nba.com it gave me some confidence in the spurs and
i say start watching it around 8:00 minutes into the clipor even 5 minutes in but if you just want to get to the main point 9:00 is it. not that big a deal but it confirms everything we have been saying here on S.Talk!!

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

remember this is nba .com stuff i dont want to get sued or anything lol masputo
:flag:

[tp2021]

Thread. Fail. Or. Whatever.

[completely deck]

the heck are you talking about

[Cant_Be_Faded]

getting tyrus thomas is like those fuckheads who were trying to gather faith that we had a chance at Jermaine O'Neal back in 2003

[lennyalderette]

no im glad were trying to get thomas!!! are you kidding me?? you think our team can compete right now? not even pop believes we can compete right now!!! i would hope for al jefferson but were not going to get him, and if we go for haslem were really screwed!!! we need to keep dice and get thomas!! if you think its going to hurt us getting thomas im sorry but we are not a threat anymore, and if we dont trade by this deadline pop will have more time to hunt for old shitty players

[lennyalderette]

regardless, you say im a delusional fan i say the point of the NBA is to compete!!! if we dont get thomas we will be stuck with ratliff and a rookie (bad ass rookie) but still a rookie to hold down the post!! we will get beat so bad in a 7 game series its not funny!!! we need something and thomas is better than nothing we have no one to keep up with an athletic big and defend with speed and power!

[jiggy_55]

I know some of yall are going to say thread fail or whatever but the tyrus thomas trade thread is pretty dead right now and i wanted you guys to see this video from nba.com it gave me some confidence in the spurs and
i say start watching it around 8:00 minutes into the clipor even 5 minutes in but if you just want to get to the main point 9:00 is it. not that big a deal but it confirms everything we have been saying here on S.Talk!!

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/originals/2010/02/16/20100216_jump_tradechatter.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

remember this is nba .com stuff i dont want to get sued or anything lol masputo
:flag:

Thanks for pointing this out. Multiple sources have now confirmed the spurs have a big interest in Tyrus Thomas, this time it was David Aldridge. I hope the Spurs make it happen to be honest.

[DesignatedT]

Thanks for pointing this out. Multiple sources have now confirmed the spurs have a big interest in Tyrus Thomas, this time it was David Aldridge. I hope the Spurs make it happen to be honest.

Im sure the spurs have been trying to pursue thomas for a while now.. bulls have much bigger plans/options on the table and unless all those other options take a tumble i dont see anyway thomas ends up a spur. they want to package hinrich,deng,miller... players with big contracts that we wont be able to take on. unless there is a 3rd team involved i dont see it happening...

miami's interest in RMJ could lead to something there...

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Tonight TT had 11/8 along with 3 blocks and 3 steals

[jesterbobman]

Miller, doesn't matter, He's an expiring that was offerred to make up space on a bigger expiring. It's as a combo with Hinrich, Deng or Salmons that Tyrus will be moved with (if he is) as it cuts definite space from the cap. That's why the Deng+ Thomas for Al Jefferson + Blount type deals are a threat. Makes sense for both teams in terms of fit, they have similar contracts, and Tyrus Thomas for cap space(+ Potentially a later Minnesota pick or 1 of the 3 they have in this draft) is a challenge, Though Kahn seems like he wants to keep Al and Love together a bit longer, and a 1 for 1 swap will probably be on the table for both teams in the offseason anyway, so there's no desperation for either to make that move.

[Spurs Brazil]

The Spurs are still intrigued by Thomas. They’ve had talks about moving Antonio McDyess(notes) and the remaining $7.5 million on his contract after this season to open minutes and create flexibility to possibly re-sign Thomas in the summer. Having to also take on Salmons, however, would likely be a deal-breaker. The two teams talked on Tuesday, but Chicago wasn’t in position to make a deal with Thomas until resolving negotiations with the Rockets.

The Spurs’ best chance to move McDyess, should it become necessary, would be to the Denver Nuggets. The Nuggets are interested in another big man for the playoffs, and McDyess has a history in Denver which would make him comfortable with the move.

The Nuggets have given up hope that they can acquire Thomas. Bulls general manager Gar Forman isn’t interested in expiring Denver contracts which won’t help them reach the playoffs, nor a draft pick that’ll likely be late in the draft. The Knicks still have interest with Thomas for Al Harrington(notes) but don’t have a draft pick to appease the Bulls.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtaNka8iAR3hHlhGMfMC7YS8vLYF?slug=ys-mcgradyrockets021710&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[ace3g]

Having to also take on Salmons, however, would likely be a deal-breaker.

hopefully this part isn't true, and the Spurs would want Salmons in the deal with TT

[benefactor]

For a team that desires to contend in the final years of Duncan's career, not wanting to take on Salmons for financial reasons is pretty foolish.

[timaios]

For a team that desires to contend in the final years of Duncan's career, not wanting to take on Salmons for financial reasons is pretty foolish.

With Salmons on the team next year, it means no more money for Manu & Splitter.

Spurs next year :

Tim Duncan $18,835,381
Richard Jefferson $15,200,000
Tony Parker $13,650,000
Antonio McDyess $4,860,000
George Hill $854,389
DeJuan Blair $918,000
+
Tyrus Thomas $6,256,806
John Salmons $5,808,000

Total : $66,382,576 for 8 players !!!

The Spurs can't take the Salmons contract... or they are fucked next year.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Hard to understand the Bulls. From reports, it turns out that they are willing to shift productive players (Thomas, Miller) along with dead meat such as Jerome James for T'Mac's cadaver and Brian Cook! While they are insisting on the Spurs taking Salmons' contract. I dont get it. The Spurs' offer of Mason for Thomas would ensure that Thomas is off the books and the Bulls can get a decent backup combo guard in Mason, which is more or less in tune with what they would get from Houston, except they would have to give up Brad Miller as well.

Can't understand what is going on between the horns of the Bulls.

[CGD]

With Salmons on the team next year, it means no more money for Manu & Splitter.

Spurs next year :

Tim Duncan $18,835,381
Richard Jefferson $15,200,000
Tony Parker $13,650,000
Antonio McDyess $4,860,000
George Hill $854,389
DeJuan Blair $918,000
+
Tyrus Thomas $6,256,806
John Salmons $5,808,000

Total : $66,382,576 for 8 players !!!

The Spurs can't take the Salmons contract... or they are fucked next year.

This is the issue facing the Spurs, and frankly I don't see Holt having the tolerance for bring on TT and Salmons.

I think we're more likely to see a smaller trade go down (e.g., Mase to Memphis for a trade exception) before Holt takes on Salmons.

[Bruno]

Tyrus Thomas $6,256,806


It's a qualifying offer, Spurs could decline to pick it.

[Spursfanfromafar]

It's a qualifying offer, Spurs could decline to pick it.

That means that they can retain McDyess for this season if they are taking Thomas, right? Unless they are forced to take Salmons' contract.

[SenorSpur]

See if you've heard this before. There is a chance the Rockets could foil the Spurs trade plans with Chicago.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhTdxyt67wWlwgU6w4svj9a8vLYF?slug=ys-mcgradyrockets021710&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The Houston Rockets continued to hold substantive talks with the New York Knicks and Chicago Bulls about exiled guard Tracy McGrady(notes), with sources close to the negotiations saying the Rockets had yet to finalize their decision.

The Bulls spent late Tuesday gathering information on McGrady, evidence they at least thought they remained in the bidding. Still, some league executives say they think the Rockets ultimately hope to strike a deal with the Knicks and are using the Bulls as leverage to get New York to firm up its offer.

As for McGrady’s wishes?

“I’m ready to play for whoever,” McGrady said in an email Tuesday night.

As Yahoo! Sports first reported on Monday, the framework of the deal between the Rockets and Knicks would have Houston sending McGrady, Brian Cook(notes) and Joey Dorsey(notes) to New York for guard Larry Hughes(notes), Jordan Hill(notes) and Jared Jeffries(notes). The two teams also would swap first-round picks in 2011 and the Knicks would send the Rockets their first-round selection in 2012.

In addition to persuading the Knicks to include Hill, the draft picks also have been haggling points. The Rockets have so far asked a hefty price for taking on the contract of Jeffries, who will make $6.9 million next season. Removing Jeffries – and Hill – from their payroll could allow the Knicks to try to sign two top-tier free agents this summer in a class that includes LeBron James(notes), Dwyane Wade(notes) and Chris Bosh(notes).

The Bulls’ package for McGrady includes Tyrus Thomas(notes), Brad Miller(notes) and either John Salmons(notes) or Kirk Hinrich(notes). Chicago has tried to attach Salmons to packages involving Thomas, which has tempered the demand for him.

The Spurs are still intrigued by Thomas. They’ve had talks about moving Antonio McDyess(notes) and the remaining $7.5 million on his contract after this season to open minutes and create flexibility to possibly re-sign Thomas in the summer. Having to also take on Salmons, however, would likely be a deal-breaker. The two teams talked on Tuesday, but Chicago wasn’t in position to make a deal with Thomas until resolving negotiations with the Rockets.

[jiggy_55]

See if you've heard this before. There is a chance the Rockets could foil the Spurs trade plans with Chicago.

This was posted a few posts above

[hater]

now Thomas is being way overrated :rolleyes

[CGD]

Houston holds all the cards, but I'm pretty sure that the Knicks will sure up their offer. They have to if they have ANY hope of landing LBJ and good parts to go around him this summer.

It's wild how many of these trade proposal can be traced to LBJ in some way. Even Miami trying to land Amare is done in part out of fear that Wade may leave and team up with the guy in NYC. Hell, even the Clippers' salary dump is traceable; David Aldridge suggested recently that Sterling is trying to make a splash this summer.

[benefactor]

It's a qualifying offer, Spurs could decline to pick it.
This.

[MaNu4Tres]

FWIW

I'm listening to 610am here in Houston and they are saying the deal between Rockets and Bulls will nearly be a done deal here pretty soon.

[CGD]

FWIW

I'm listening to 610am here in Houston and they are saying the deal between Rockets and Bulls will nearly be a done deal here pretty soon. FWIW

Thanks for the info. It's up to the Knicks at this point, but if I'm Houston I take this down to the wire.

[benefactor]

With Salmons on the team next year, it means no more money for Manu & Splitter.

Spurs next year :

Tim Duncan $18,835,381
Richard Jefferson $15,200,000
Tony Parker $13,650,000
Antonio McDyess $4,860,000
George Hill $854,389
DeJuan Blair $918,000
+
Tyrus Thomas $6,256,806
John Salmons $5,808,000

Total : $66,382,576 for 8 players !!!

The Spurs can't take the Salmons contract... or they are fucked next year.
Just to put things in perspective...the Spurs had 73.5 million on only 8 players this season.

[Mr. Body]

That's hilarious. Houston comes in once again to (possibly) screw the Spurs.

[MaNu4Tres]

It looks like Thomas and Salmons could have been had for just expirings.

Why Spurs didn't take the plunged indicates Holt wanting to cut back on the luxury next year.



Rockets would rather take on the salary of Salmons than Jared Jeffries ( NY Deal) for next year, which is a no brainer for the Rockets.

Good deal for them if it goes through.

[MaNu4Tres]

Malik Hairston better be ready to play a significant role next year.

[Agloco]

Malik Hairston better be ready to play a significant role next year.

I believe he was ready this year...... too bad Pop didn't

[CGD]

It looks like Thomas and Salmons could have been had for just expirings.

Why Spurs didn't take the plunged indicates Holt wanting to cut back on the luxury next year.



Rockets would rather take on the salary of Salmons than Jared Jeffries ( NY Deal) for next year, which is a no brainer for the Rockets.

Good deal for them if it goes through.

I agree. If I'm Houston the Bulls Deal > Knicks Deal. Jordan Hill is a good prospect, but TT provides immediate help. Plus, as has been mentioned before, Houston can simply let TT walk if he's not a good fit.

[Mr. Body]

It looks like Thomas and Salmons could have been had for just expirings.

Why Spurs didn't take the plunged indicates Holt wanting to cut back on the luxury next year.



Rockets would rather take on the salary of Salmons than Jared Jeffries ( NY Deal) for next year, which is a no brainer for the Rockets.

Good deal for them if it goes through.

Holt just took on a shit-load of contract with Richard Jefferson and how did that work out? I'd actually be pissed for his sake if he took on Salmons at this point.

[mountainballer]

The Bulls’ package for McGrady includes Tyrus Thomas(notes), Brad Miller(notes) and either John Salmons(notes) or Kirk Hinrich(notes). Chicago has tried to attach Salmons to packages involving Thomas, which has tempered the demand for him.

if the Bulls do this, they more or less say good buy to this season. none knows if and at what level t-mac can play, but much more they are already not the deepest team with 2 bigs struggling with plantar f.
4 players from their top 8 rotation for one guy, who might not play.
but the Bulls are still in a PO position, are they really willing to tank? can't see this.

[Mel_13]

Just to put things in perspective...the Spurs had 73.5 million on only 8 players this season.

The key difference:

This year's payroll was approved with the belief that the current roster had a realistic shot of competing for a championship.

Adding playing like Thomas and Salmons, and perhaps Splitter, to the existing core make the team better, but even through rose-colored glasses it is difficult to view the Spurs as championship contenders.

I've reached the point where I don't believe that there are transactions out there that make the Spurs into contenders again in the Duncan era, even if Holt were willing to spend like Cuban. I don't think that they'll follow the Portland or OKC example and blow the whole thing up, but it make sense to let the older pieces leave by trade or contract expiration and replace them, one by one, with younger, more athletic players.

Then you proceed with an orderly transition towards the post-Duncan era. They tried to keep the championship open with the notion that the inevitable rebuilding could wait until 2011 or 2012. If championships are no longer possible, there's no reason not to begin that process right now.

I still think that if they can get Thomas/Salmons for Finley/Mason/Bonner then they should, but they may have reached the point where role players on the wrong side of 30 are no longer interesting for MLE level salaries, even for one year.

[tp2021]

Then you proceed with an orderly transition towards the post-Duncan era. They tried to keep the championship open with the notion that the inevitable rebuilding could wait until 2011 or 2012. If championships are no longer possible, there's no reason not to begin that process right now.

*sigh* Sorry your team went to pot, Tim.

[mountainballer]

The key difference:

This year's payroll was approved with the belief that the current roster had a realistic shot of competing for a championship.

Adding playing like Thomas and Salmons, and perhaps Splitter, to the existing core make the team better, but even through rose-colored glasses it is difficult to view the Spurs as championship contenders.

I've reached the point where I don't believe that there are transactions out there that make the Spurs into contenders again in the Duncan era, even if Holt were willing to spend like Cuban. I don't think that they'll follow the Portland or OKC example and blow the whole thing up, but it make sense to let the older pieces leave by trade or contract expiration and replace them, one by one, with younger, more athletic players.

Then you proceed with an orderly transition towards the post-Duncan era. They tried to keep the championship open with the notion that the inevitable rebuilding could wait until 2011 or 2012. If championships are no longer possible, there's no reason not to begin that process right now.

I still think that if they can get Thomas/Salmons for Finley/Mason/Bonner then they should, but they may have reached the point where role players on the wrong side of 30 are no longer interesting for MLE level salaries, even for one year.

but if this was true, why are they involved in so many speculations at all? or do you mean, that they got the order, do whatever you want if you think it makes the team better, BUT NO to any trade that brings back salary beyond this season. this would more or less kill any value our expiring contracts have.

[Big P]

if the Bulls do this, they more or less say good buy to this season. none knows if and at what level t-mac can play, but much more they are already not the deepest team with 2 bigs struggling with plantar f.
4 players from their top 8 rotation for one guy, who might not play.
but the Bulls are still in a PO position, are they really willing to tank? can't see this.

When you consider the fact that it will free enough room for a max contract or more next year...I see them tanking the season easily...the bulls are not going anywhere this season...look to the future.

[MaNu4Tres]

Holt just took on a shit-load of contract with Richard Jefferson and how did that work out? I'd actually be pissed for his sake if he took on Salmons at this point.

Don't give the man sympathy.

He had an opportunity to take on contracts from 2003-2009, but he chose the cheap route.

Yes I know Spurs still managed to win 3 Titles during the 5 years (2003-2007), but had Holt took on contracts then instead of now, Spurs would have probably three peated or won 4-6 titles during that time.

Instead he chose to wait til Tim and Manu were passed their prime to finally break the bank.

[Mel_13]

but if this was true, why are they involved in so many speculations at all? or do you mean, that they got the order, do whatever you want if you think it makes the team better, BUT NO to any trade that brings back salary beyond this season. this would more or less kill any value our expiring contracts have.

That wasn't my point.

I suggested that may be willing to make trades that bring back salary beyond this season, but not MLE level salary attached to a an over-30 role player.

If all we can get for expiring contracts contracts of our aging roles are slightly younger, slightly better players on more expensive contracts, then perhaps it it better to just let those contracts expire.

In this view of affairs, acquiring a player like Salmons does nothing but kick the can one year down the road.

[MaNu4Tres]

The key difference:

I don't think that they'll follow the Portland or OKC example and blow the whole thing up, but it make sense to let the older pieces leave by trade or contract expiration and replace them, one by one, with younger, more athletic players.



Only thing I don't agree with what you said Mel. I know this is your opinion of what they might do oppose to you. I think that route will be a mistake and prolong the time to compete for a championship again.

I believe Spurs shouldn't just let their expirings expire if they agree to start rebuilding to any degree. If they agree to start rebuilding then try to get as many assets for the future for those expirings this year and next year. If we simply just let them expire without any compensation, that will only just prolong the rebuilding process. Thunder and Blazers did it the right way, oppose to the Pistons, who resigned Hamilton to a lucrative deal once he was past his prime ( similar to Manu's situation now).

[Mel_13]

Don't give the man sympathy.



Sympathy's got nothing to do with it. Once you come to the conclusion that more money won't solve the problem, it would be pure stupidity to keep spending.

[Mel_13]

Only thing I don't agree with what you said Mel. I know this is your opinion of what they might do oppose to you. I think that route will be a mistake and prolong the time to compete for a championship again.

I believe Spurs shouldn't just let their expirings expire if they agree to start rebuilding to any degree. If they agree to start rebuilding then try to get as many assets for the future for those expirings this year and next year. If we simply just let them expire without any compensation, that will only just prolong the rebuilding process. Thunder and Blazers did it the right way, oppose to the Pistons, who resigned Hamilton to a lucrative deal once he was past his prime ( similar to Manu's situation now).

This is actually the very point I was trying to make. If you can acquire future assets with expiring contracts, then do so. In the example we're using here, Salmons is not a future asset.

[MaNu4Tres]

Sympathy's got nothing to do with it. Once you come to the conclusion that more money won't solve the problem, it would be pure stupidity to keep spending.

I know more money won't solve the problem. I'm not stupid. I'm aware any move we make won't bring the Spurs a championship. Those days have obviously passed.

I'm saying don't give the man sympathy for his plan not paying off this year. He had from 2003-2008 to give the FO his consent to do everything possible to keep the O'Brien in San Antonio. But he didn't.

I don't feel sorry for him for it not working out as planned this year.

[Mel_13]

I know more money won't solve the problem. I'm not stupid. I'm aware any move we make won't bring the Spurs a championship. Those days have obviously passed.

I'm saying don't give the man sympathy for his plan not paying off this year. He had from 2003-2008 to give the FO his consent to do everything possible to keep the O'Brien in San Antonio. But he didn't.

I don't feel sorry for him for it not working out as planned this year.

:lol

Yeah, sympathy for millionaires and billionaires is a misplaced emotion.

[MaNu4Tres]

This is actually the very point I was trying to make. If you can acquire future assets with expiring contracts, then do so. In the example we're using here, Salmons is not a future asset.

I know Salmons isn't. A Thomas/ Salmons move is a move to help NOW.

We don't know if Spurs are prioritizing moves for NOW or for the future. Only time will tell that.

If they are trying to make moves for the future then I say get as much as you can for all your expiring contracts.

I.E

Manu for Big Z and J.J Hickson and a 1st rounder. ( Spurs would buy out Big Z, and he'd return to Cleveland in 30 days)

And even put McDyess on the table in a similar deal to a contender:

I.E McDyess for Scalabrine and Sheldon Williams and a 1st.

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol

Yeah, sympathy for millionaires and billionaires is a misplaced emotion.

I know that, some fans on here have been pulling the " I feel sorry for him" card.

[duncan228]

*sigh* Sorry your team went to pot, Tim.

:( I'm having the hardest time dealing with this. Duncan is having a good season, and over his career I think he had more in him. I'm not complaining about four, it's been a joy. But he had more. He could still have more in him with the right pieces. I hope the front office can give him the shot.

[Mel_13]

I know Salmons isn't. A Thomas/ Salmons move is a move to help NOW.

We don't know if Spurs are prioritizing moves for NOW or for the future. Only time will tell that.

If they are trying to make moves for the future then I say get as much as you can for all your expiring contracts.

I.E

Manu for Big Z and J.J Hickson and a 1st rounder. ( Spurs would buy out Big Z, and he'd return to Cleveland in 30 days)

And even put McDyess on the table in a similar deal to a contender:

I.E McDyess for Scalabrine and Sheldon Williams and a 1st.

I agree. I actually proposed the Manu to Cleveland trade in jest in another thread, but it actually makes sense.

As to their priorities they could be working under guidelines that say trades to improve the team NOW must be cost neutral, otherwise only make trades that improve future prospects.

[tp2021]

:( I'm having the hardest time dealing with this. Duncan is having a good season, and over his career I think he had more in him. I'm not complaining about four, it's been a joy. But he had more. He could still have more in him with the right pieces. I hope the front office can give him the shot.

At least we know, from this past offseason, that they were serious about trying. Now it becomes, do they keep trying? Is the desire to capitalize on Tim's last years greater than the desire to rebuild? Not to say the two are mutually exclusive, but they don't exactly coincide, either.

[tp2021]

If anything, these past few weeks have helped me realize that love for a player doesn't put him above trading (*cough* Manu). It has to be all about getting Tim his next ring.

[Mel_13]

At least we know, from this past offseason, that they were serious about trying. Now it becomes, do they keep trying? Is the desire to capitalize on Tim's last years greater than the desire to rebuild? Not to say the two are mutually exclusive, but they don't exactly coincide, either.

The first question to be answered is:

Is it even possible to make a series of transactions that transform the current roster into a championship contending team in 2010 or 2011?

If the answer is no, then a gradual rebuilding is the only logical choice.

If the answer is yes, then you have decide if you can afford it.

[MaNu4Tres]

The first question to be answered is:

Is it even possible to make a series of transactions that transform the current roster into a championship contending team in 2010 or 2011?

No

[pad300]

The first question to be answered is:

Is it even possible to make a series of transactions that transform the current roster into a championship contending team in 2010 or 2011?

If the answer is no, then a gradual rebuilding is the only logical choice.

If the answer is yes, then you have decide if you can afford it.


No

Not sure I agree with you. A Jefferson + expirings for Iguolda and Dalembert/Brand deal would make us contenders next year, and probably this year. However, it would be a lot more money long term...

[MaNu4Tres]

Not sure I agree with you. A Jefferson + expirings for Iguolda and Dalembert/Brand deal would make us contenders next year, and probably this year. However, it would be a lot more money long term...





If the answer is yes, then you have decide if you can afford it.

Holt not signing off on a Salmons/ Thomas deal for expirings indicates Holt can't afford it.

There is your answer.

[SenorSpur]

I appreciate the FO trying this offseason. The moves were both bold and swift. However, it could be that they waited too late because now there's not much room for error.

Perhaps this "can do" strategy should have been taken during the run. Certain key acquisitions could've been had and perhaps others (SJax) could've been retained. The team could've been better positioned to repeat and repeat.

I realize this is all hindsight and greed, but perhaps instead of "every other year champions", we'd be sitting here appreciating a 5-6 title dynasty.

[TJastal]

:( I'm having the hardest time dealing with this. Duncan is having a good season, and over his career I think he had more in him. I'm not complaining about four, it's been a joy. But he had more. He could still have more in him with the right pieces. I hope the front office can give him the shot.

+1

It's really been a tough year to swallow. I feel your pain, Duncan228.

This team had enough for one more run. They still do, perhaps. They have the big 3 finally healthy this year for the most part (Parker is 75% but still that's better than most). All they need is a few pieces in the supporting cast.

Obviously the team needs either some athleticism/shotblockers or pure physical size (or both in one package, if possible) on the frontline to help Tim.

Also wouldn't hurt to get a wing who can give them some consistent scoring and defense that Pop sticks with. The musical chairs he's been using is making it difficult for players to get into any kind of rhythym.

Bogans was given the most consistent role and minutes of anyone and hasn't proven any type of consistency. RMJ and Finley have fought over the remaining leftover minutes and both also struggle to be consistent as well.

Even though it's a risk I wish the spurs could get a Thomas/Salmons package deal together. I think these two players address the two glaring weaknesses the best right now and would really solidify the rotation. No more musical chairs, Salmons starts and Roger off the bench. No more Finley / Bogans bullshit. Same with Thomas, he either starts or comes off the bench to help anchor the defense and allow Blair to do his best work on the offensive end. Bonner is the 5th man in spot minutes.

I'm not really impressed with the excuses why this trade can't happen. The fact is Manu might be gone anyway after this year and Splitter has not committed, and really .. who cares if he does?

You gotta wonder how many more times are we going to see the big 3 all healthy (relatively speaking). I'm guessing not many more. Might as well go for the gusto.

[pad300]

Holt not signing off on a Salmons/ Thomas deal for expirings indicates Holt can't afford it.

There is your answer.

I don't think you can say Holt has/hasn't signed off just yet. I'm pretty sure that such an offer wouldn't be accepted by the Bulls just yet. They hope to either move Hinrich at the deadline, or get more back. Salmons/Thomas for expirings is their fallback position...

I have no insight into what Holt and the rest of the ownership group think is appropriate spending; I didn't think they would come within sniffing distance of the Jefferson deal...

[venitian navigator]

I don't know if is possible but I know we have to try just because of the chance that is possible...have a little window to compete is better than have nothing at all...we have a lot of exemples (see Bulls) of teams that are out of contention for years and years after their stars have retired (see Boston after Bird, Bulls after Jordan etc etc.) and of teams that, despite the pletora of high draft choices, have never been able to compete for the title.
'till we have Duncan It's not time to re-build at the point to take low draft choices instead of good players with nba experience...I don't see Tim in a rebuilding team.
The Jefferson deal was thought as impossible but given the current economical situation has been made...didn't work till now, but was a chance to take (I would have preferred Maggette over him...but ther's no counterprove that he would have been better).

We already had exemples of how the market gives somehow unexpected opportunities...and rememeber next year we have Splitter, the expiring of Jefferson (in case he won't play a lot better than now), one year more of experience for Hill and Blair... that could be just what the doctor ordered.

[Mel_13]

we'd be sitting here appreciating a 5-6 title dynasty.


And there would still be plenty of complaining that not enough was being done to get a 7th.