States With Most Gun Laws Have Fewest Gun Deaths

[boutons_deux]

Rep. Pat Garofalo (R). is upset that a provision in the new lease bans gun shops (http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_24282127/vikings-stadium-gun-shop-ban-questioned) from becoming vendors in the new Vikings stadium, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported Thursday (via Field of Schemes (http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2013/10/11/6034/vikings-trim-some-stadium-amenities-because-they-only-have-a-billion-dollars-to-play-with/)):


“This provision was never included in the Metrodome lease, was not included in the new Vikings stadium legislation and was not identified as an issue or a problem that needed to be addressed prior to this agreement,” said Garofalo, a Farmington Republican, in a letter to the Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority, which signed the lease and a development agreement with the Vikings last week.

He questioned why law-abiding businesses would be excluded from the new facility in downtown Minneapolis and wondered if the provision would prohibit hunting and outdoors events from taking place at the new stadium.


http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/10/11/2769731/minnesota-legislator-upset-gun-shops-banned-vikings-stadium/

:lol Holy Bat Shit Crazy

What's the alcohol blood limit to buy a gun! :lol

[boutons_deux]

South Carolina Man Gets Off Thanks To ‘Stand Your Ground’ After Shooting And Killing Innocent Bystander

On Wednesday, a South Carolina judge granted immunity from prosecution (http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/10/09/5291031/stand-your-ground-sc-judge-grants.html) to a man who shot and killed an innocent bystander during a botched confrontation with a group of teenagers. The judge relied on the state’s ‘Stand Your Ground’ law.

Seventeen-year-old Darrell Niles was in his car, minding his own business back in 2010 when 33-year-old Shannon Anthony Scott shot and killed him.

Earlier that day, a group of girls had followed and threatened Scott’s 15-year-old daughter. They later drove past Scott’s house in an SUV. But when Scott walked out of his house with a handgun to confront the “women thugs (http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/10/09/5291031/stand-your-ground-sc-judge-grants.html),” as he described them, he instead fired straight into the 1992 Honda of Darrell Niles, who was unarmed.

Niles was killed instantly.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/11/2769631/south-carolina-stand-ground/

[boutons_deux]

Gun Groups Sponsor ‘Guns Save Lives Day’ On One-Year Anniversary Of Newtown Shooting (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/11/2770371/newtown-anniversary-gun-event/)


http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/newtown-memorial.jpg

Several gun groups will honor the date 20 children and six adults were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary with “Guns Save Lives Day.” The national Second Amendment Foundation, as well as the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and DefendGunRights.com anticipate participation across 50 states to counter an “anticipated push by the gun prohibition lobby to exploit the anniversary of the Newtown tragedy to push their political agenda.”

“We are going to show America that there is a good side to guns,” the groups’ petition (http://gunssavelivesday.com/) says. Declaring that gun owners have been victimized in the debate post-Newtown, they request people send donations. “We plan to honor these victims by doing everything within our power to prevent misguided gun control laws from leaving Americans defenseless or worse victims. Don’t be a victim, ARM YOURSELF and help ARM our movement with the resources we need to protect and restore our nation’s gun rights.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/11/2770371/newtown-anniversary-gun-event/

gun fellators, what a bunch of ignorant, tasteless lying sons of bitches

[TSA]

South Carolina Man Gets Off Thanks To ‘Stand Your Ground’ After Shooting And Killing Innocent Bystander

On Wednesday, a South Carolina judge granted immunity from prosecution (http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/10/09/5291031/stand-your-ground-sc-judge-grants.html) to a man who shot and killed an innocent bystander during a botched confrontation with a group of teenagers. The judge relied on the state’s ‘Stand Your Ground’ law.

Seventeen-year-old Darrell Niles was in his car, minding his own business back in 2010 when 33-year-old Shannon Anthony Scott shot and killed him.

Earlier that day, a group of girls had followed and threatened Scott’s 15-year-old daughter. They later drove past Scott’s house in an SUV. But when Scott walked out of his house with a handgun to confront the “women thugs (http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/10/09/5291031/stand-your-ground-sc-judge-grants.html),” as he described them, he instead fired straight into the 1992 Honda of Darrell Niles, who was unarmed.

Niles was killed instantly.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/11/2769631/south-carolina-stand-ground/

That's very unfortunate.

But you left out some of the story.

"Shortly before the shooting, an SUV filled with young people who had threatened Scott's teenage daughter drove by his house and fired shots. Authorities say Smith then saw Niles' car and fired his gun from his front yard, hitting Niles, who was not armed, in the head."

[TSA]

gun fellators, what a bunch of ignorant, tasteless lying sons of bitches

At least they waited a year before dancing on their graves, unlike the Dems who were dancing on them within an hour.

[boutons_deux]

That's very unfortunate.

But you left out some of the story.

"Shortly before the shooting, an SUV filled with young people who had threatened Scott's teenage daughter drove by his house and fired shots. Authorities say Smith then saw Niles' car and fired his gun from his front yard, hitting Niles, who was not armed, in the head."

the dickless gun fellator, standing his ground, murdered an innocent, PERIOD. IF the gun fellator didn't have a gun then, the innocent person would be alive.

[boutons_deux]

At least they waited a year before dancing on their graves, unlike the Dems who were dancing on them within an hour.

You Lie

[TSA]

You Lie


YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

[TSA]

You Lie


And don't forget, you were one of the one's dancing on their graves within minutes of the story breaking, you sick fuck.

[boutons_deux]

And don't forget, you were one of the one's dancing on their graves within minutes of the story breaking, you sick fuck.

You Lie

[TSA]

You Lie

You lie. Go fuck yourself.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206814&highlight=sandy+hook

[boutons_deux]

You lie. Go fuck yourself.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206814&highlight=sandy+hook

I'm dancing there? :lol

the truth you refuse: MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE AND MORE GUN DEATHS

[boutons_deux]

The Secret Fears of the Gun Lobby and What They're Planning Next

"You'll notice there's a lot of grey in this room," said Judge Journey, who when not sitting on a Kansas district court bench serves as an officer for the Kansas State Rifle Association. "That's the problem with our movement. We've got to get children into the shooting sports and develop an appreciation by them in the right to keep and bear arms. Because in 20 years, where will we be?"

This question -- "In 20 years, where will we be?" -- is one of gnawing urgency for the gun-rights movement. At the National Rifle Association convention last summer, I heard gun industry veterans joke that NRA now stood for "Normal Retirement Age." At this smaller but no less influential meeting of leading pro-gun minds, most speakers circled back to their fear that those in the room represented the end of a proud line. Even as the movement's leading activists boasted of recent victories at the federal and state level -- and there are many, from successful recall elections in Colorado to a carry law in Illinois -- they warned of a deadly demographic drop-off, that the energy and the youth was all in the gun-reform corner. "The people on the other side, like [the Stimson Center's] Rachel Stohl, they are very young and they are motivated," said Julianne Versnel, of the International Association for the Protection of Civilian Arms Rights. "They know how to Tweet and Facebook, and they are doing a very good job."

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/inside-2013-gun-rights-policy-conference?akid=11040.187590.J2Pcdc&rd=1&src=newsletter909943&t=8&paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

So maybe the old, white, pissed-off, male, crazy facial hairdos, senile, tea baggin bastards will die and sensible restrictions on gun ownership will reduce gun violence and gun deaths

[TSA]

the truth you refuse: MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE AND MORE GUN DEATHS

The numbers over the last 20 years say you're lying.

[boutons_deux]

The numbers over the last 20 years say you're lying.

I KNOW you are lying.

MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENC, MORE GUN DEATHS

guns don't kill children, children do.

[TSA]

I KNOW you are lying.

MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENC, MORE GUN DEATHS

guns don't kill children, children do.

The numbers over the last 20 years say you're lying.

[TSA]

I'll make it easier for you boutons, just prove 1/3 of your claim. Show me the rise in gun violence over the last 20 years.

[boutons_deux]

I'll make it easier for you boutons, just prove 1/3 of your claim. Show me the rise in gun violence over the last 20 years.

see, you show everybody here how ignorant you are, posing a false measure.

I'll make it easier for you, TSA,

How many 1000s of suicides and accidental gun deaths to people of ALL ages, including children shooting children, children shooting anybody, anybody accidentally shooting anybody, or family or drunken passions that terminated in gun murders rather than a unarmed fight (like Trayvon Martin) or whatever, would have NEVER occurred if there weren't 300M guns in USA, if the marketing and culture of guns is lackadaisal, unregulated, "guns are fun", everybody should have one, or even better for the gun industry suckering you gun fellators, everybody should have LOTS of guns.

See, TSA, your declining number is bullshit.

More guns = more guns violence and more gun deaths.

[Chief Brody]

see, you show everybody here how ignorant you are, posing a false measure.

I'll make it easier for you, TSA,

How many 1000s of suicides and accidental gun deaths to people of ALL ages, including children shooting children, children shooting anybody, anybody accidentally shooting anybody, or family or drunken passions that terminated in gun murders rather than a unarmed fight (like Trayvon Martin) or whatever, would have NEVER occurred if there weren't 300M guns in USA, if the marketing and culture of guns is lackadaisal, unregulated, "guns are fun", everybody should have one, or even better for the gun industry suckering you gun fellators, everybody should have LOTS of guns.

See, TSA, your declining number is bullshit.

More guns = more guns violence and more gun deaths.
Every post of yours is full of links. Now--when asked to produce one--you suddenly come up empty.

Pretty telling, tbh.

[boutons_deux]

Every post of yours is full of links. Now--when asked to produce one--you suddenly come up empty.

Pretty telling, tbh.

do you deny that 1000s of suicides succeed every year because a gun shot is so efficient?

do you deny that there are 100s of accidental gun deaths, crimes of passion gun deaths every year?

do you own fucking research, and not on GOA or NRA sites

you fucking gun fellators are as stupid and ignorant as AGW deniers.

[m>s]

what do you expect from a paid government troll

[Chief Brody]

do you deny that 1000s of suicides succeed every year because a gun shot is so efficient?

do you deny that there are 100s of accidental gun deaths, crimes of passion gun deaths every year?

do you own fucking research, and not on GOA or NRA sites

you fucking gun fellators are as stupid and ignorant as AGW deniers.
That's funny......those don't look like links.

[boutons_deux]

That's funny......those don't look like links.

what's hilarious is how stupid you gun fellators are, down at maran level.

[Chief Brody]

You can't win em all, croutons. My compubox #'s have this as a 10-7 round in favor of TSA.

[TSA]

See, TSA, your declining number is bullshit.

More guns = more guns violence and more gun deaths.

My declining number is true, your claim is bullshit.

We agree there are more guns, now show there is MORE gun violence.

[boutons_deux]

Two-Year-Old North Carolina Girl Dies After Accidentally Shooting Herselfhttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/two-year-old-north-carolina-girl-dies-after-accidentally-shooting-herself

yet another gun death that didn't "decline"

[TSA]

Two-Year-Old North Carolina Girl Dies After Accidentally Shooting Herselfhttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/two-year-old-north-carolina-girl-dies-after-accidentally-shooting-herself

yet another gun death that didn't "decline"

Disregard the fact that there are more guns in circulation, just show me the increase in gun crime.

[boutons_deux]

The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics :

In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:

214 unintentional
1,078 suicides
1,990 homicides
83 for which the intent could not be determined
20 due to legal intervention


Of the total firearms-related deaths:

73 were of children under five years old
416 were children 5-14 years old
2,896 were 15-19 years old



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_children_are_killed_each_year_by_gun_acci dents#slide7

[Clipper Nation]

It really took you two days to produce a link that still doesn't answer TSA's question? :lol

[boobie4three]

Published on Dec 22, 2012
Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen in 1991 when the Luby's massacre commenced. The gunman shot 50 people and killed 23, including Hupp's parents. Hupp later expressed regret about deciding to remove her gun from her purse and lock it in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car." Her father, Al Gratia, tried to rush the gunman and was shot in the chest. As the gunman reloaded, Hupp escaped through a broken window and believed that her mother, Ursula Gratia, was behind her. Actually however, her mother went to her mortally-wounded husband's aid and was then shot in the head.

As a survivor of the Luby's massacre, Hupp testified across the country in support of concealed-handgun laws. She said that if there had been a second chance to prevent the slaughter, she would have violated the Texas law and carried the handgun inside her purse into the restaurant. She testified across the country in support of concealed handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996. The law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sEYGcXSmpQ

[TSA]

The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics :

In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:

214 unintentional
1,078 suicides
1,990 homicides
83 for which the intent could not be determined
20 due to legal intervention


Of the total firearms-related deaths:

73 were of children under five years old
416 were children 5-14 years old
2,896 were 15-19 years old



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_children_are_killed_each_year_by_gun_acci dents#slide7
:lol Show me the increase in gun crime.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My declining number is true, your claim is bullshit.

We agree there are more guns, now show there is MORE gun violence.

You moved the goalpost from this spot, sophist.

[pgardn]

:lol Show me the increase in gun crime.

It seems that part of his argument is that guns are also involved in incidents that are not criminal.

The accidental gun deaths and suicides are important in his numbers but not yours?
Is this correct?

Deaths caused by motor vehicles is a big number. Our society currently deems the aforementioned as a biproduct of a very important transportation activity and have therefore accepted the risk involved. So you are saying our society has also deemed the risk involved in owning a firearm as acceptable because guns actually help protect more people than they hurt as well. That owning a gun may even prevent more incidents than they cause?

Just attempting to clear things up as this is a tough issue for me.

[Winehole23]

Mark Stern, the co-owner of the Big Picture theater in Belltown, is already anticipating hate mail and angry calls from gun owners. He wants them to know he’s not against guns. But if they’re thinking of coming to his movie theater, he’d rather they don’t bring their guns along.


“We think, as private business owners, we can say that we prefer customers to leave their guns at home,” Stern said.


On Thursday, The Big Picture became the 100th Seattle business to join a gun-free-zone effort sponsored jointly by the city and Washington CeaseFire. At a news conference to announce the milestone, Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn said that since the program started in August, almost one business a day has signed up.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022117863_gunfreezonexml.html

[Winehole23]

Violent crime in the United States rose for the second year in a row, a government report said Thursday, indicating that the nation's two-decade decline in crime has ended.

The 2012 National Crime Victimization Survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that 26 of every 1,000 people experienced violent crime, a 15% increase in how many people reported being victims of rape, robbery or assault. Property crime — burglary, theft and car theft — rose 12%.


"We've plateaued. At this point, I don't think we're going to see any more decreases in crime," said criminologist James Alan Fox of Northeastern University in Boston. "The challenge will be making sure crime rates don't go back up."


Even so, after two decades of falling crime rates, violent crime remains at historically low levels. Crime rates have dropped steadily since 1993, when 80 of every 1,000 people reported being victims of violent crime. The homicide rate declined 48% from 1993 to 2011.http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/24/violent-crime-rising-in-united-states/3180309/

[TSA]

You moved the goalpost from this spot, sophist.

I haven't moved a thing. Here is his claim.


More guns = more guns violence and more gun deaths.

Again boutons, show me the increases.

[boutons_deux]

I haven't moved a thing. Here is his claim.


Again boutons, show me the increases.

I just love baiting you gun fellators. did I say increases?

did you say more guns CAUSE less gun deaths, violence?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol Show me the increase in gun crime.


I haven't moved a thing. Here is his claim.


More guns = more guns violence and more gun deaths.

Is today the day of the dumbass or something?

[TSA]

It seems that part of his argument is that guns are also involved in incidents that are not criminal.

The accidental gun deaths and suicides are important in his numbers but not yours?
Is this correct?Correct, and both of these are also on the decline.

[TSA]

I just love baiting you gun fellators. did I say increases?

did you say more guns CAUSE less gun deaths, violence?

So you are finally admitting that gun crime is not on the rise, despite the millions more guns that are now in circulation?

[TSA]

Is today the day of the dumbass or something?

Gun deaths are also on the decline.

[Clipper Nation]

I just love baiting you gun fellators. did I say increases?
Your claim that more guns in circulation leads to more gun crimes and gun-related deaths implies increases in those categories, yet you've been completely unable to come up with any link that proves your argument....

In reality, you are simply parroting a party-line talking point as usual, and the fact that you are wilting under questioning of your claim proves it....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Gun deaths are also on the decline.

I have no interest in arguing this topic with you. You are disingenuous and it's a waste of time as evidenced by your goal post switch. You won't even admit to it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Your claim that more guns in circulation leads to more gun crimes and gun-related deaths implies increases in those categories, yet you've been completely unable to come up with any link that proves your argument....

In reality, you are simply parroting a party-line talking point as usual, and the fact that you are wilting under questioning of your claim proves it....

http://www.internalmedicinenews.com/single-view/gun-deaths-rise-as-gun-ownership-climbs/73ee99d5260a5ca999290b93c4d95711.html

There is proof. Peer reviewed study.

[Clipper Nation]

http://www.internalmedicinenews.com/single-view/gun-deaths-rise-as-gun-ownership-climbs/73ee99d5260a5ca999290b93c4d95711.html

There is proof. Peer reviewed study.
http://i.imgur.com/s6HqyU4.png

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://i.imgur.com/s6HqyU4.png

The article doesn't dispute that. Note it says deaths and not crimes. Crime in general has decreased over the last 20 years for whatever that is worth. Also it should be nothed that the brady bill and assault weapon ban was passed in the 90s. That doesn't really help your cause that crime went down significantly in the 90s.

the amount of unregistered legal firearms in the country makes tracking gun ownership nearly impossible so the whole "more gun" or "less gun" thing an impossible task.

[TSA]

I have no interest in arguing this topic with you. You are disingenuous and it's a waste of time as evidenced by your goal post switch. You won't even admit to it.

You've said you won't argue this with me for over a year, yet here you are again.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You've said you won't argue this with me for over a year, yet here you are again.

Over a year? If you say so. I am just pointing out that you are a sophist shill and showing how. I am not arguing the issue on its merits. I will talk to CN on merit but I think you are a pos, tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

The first graph I posted shows an overall decrease in firearm homicide deaths per 100,000 people since 1993.... the study you posted doesn't distinguish between suicide and homicide, which skews their data, tbh....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The first graph I posted shows an overall decrease in firearm homicide deaths per 100,000 people since 1993.... the study you posted doesn't distinguish between suicide and homicide, which skews their data, tbh....

It's a medical journal and not a criminal one. Skews it how? You saying we shouldn't care if people want to kill themselves? Taht they shouldn't count? It doesn't distinguish between accidental shootings either.

[TSA]

It's a medical journal and not a criminal one. Skews it how? You saying we shouldn't care if people want to kill themselves? Taht they shouldn't count? It doesn't distinguish between accidental shootings either.

Homicides and suicides should definitely be counted separately, that shouldn't even be up for debate.

[Clipper Nation]

It's a medical journal and not a criminal one. Skews it how? You saying we shouldn't care if people want to kill themselves? Taht they shouldn't count?
What I'm saying is that suicide shouldn't be used as a reason to remove or inhibit sane, law-abiding gun owners' 2nd Amendment rights.... yes, suicide is a tragic event, but homicide is arguably worse, as it is a direct act of harm committed against another person (as opposed to suicide, where the harm to others is more indirect).... it's just not the same thing, and they should be counted separately....

If gun homicides were increasing, gun control advocates would have a stronger argument, but they aren't....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What I'm saying is that suicide shouldn't be used as a reason to remove or inhibit sane, law-abiding gun owners' 2nd Amendment rights.... yes, suicide is a tragic event, but homicide is arguably worse, as it is a direct act of harm committed against another person (as opposed to suicide, where the harm to others is more indirect).... it's just not the same thing, and they should be counted separately....

If gun homicides were increasing, gun control advocates would have a stronger argument, but they aren't....

More people are dying due to guns and again the brady bill and assault weapons ban correlates with that decline in crime of the 90s. That should speak to the efficacy of the law.

You pass a law meant to curb gun violence and voila gun violence goes down......

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would also point out that the assault weapon ban expired in 2004 and what happens to gun violence in 2005? You see an uptick.

[TSA]

More people are dying due to guns and again the brady bill and assault weapons ban correlates with that decline in crime of the 90s. That should speak to the efficacy of the law.

You pass a law meant to curb gun violence and voila gun violence goes down......

Hardly as cut and dry as you are trying to make it.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work/

[boutons_deux]

500 Children Die In Hospitals From Gunshot Wounds Every Year


http://www.alternet.org/500-children-die-hospitals-gunshot-wounds-every-year?akid=11087.187590.Vdx2Pu&rd=1&src=newsletter916138&t=11

500 dead kids per year is why the Framers added the 2nd Amendment

"Don't take my guns, but it's OK if guns take my kids. Freedom!"

[Clipper Nation]

500 Children Die In Hospitals From Gunshot Wounds Every Year


http://www.alternet.org/500-children-die-hospitals-gunshot-wounds-every-year?akid=11087.187590.Vdx2Pu&rd=1&src=newsletter916138&t=11

500 dead kids per year is why the Framers added the 2nd Amendment



Plenty of irrelevant links, but not one that even addresses TSA's question.... keep parroting that party line, shill :lol

[boutons_deux]

Plenty of irrelevant links, but not one that even addresses TSA's question.... keep parroting that party line, shill :lol

Fuck TSA, she's not worth the effort

500 dead kids from guns PER YEAR is TOO MANY GUNS causing TOO MANY DEAD KIDS

[Clipper Nation]

Fuck TSA, she's not worth the effort
Translation: "that damned party line isn't giving me a rebuttal to TSA's facts!"


500 dead kids from guns PER YEAR is TOO MANY GUNS causing TOO MANY DEAD KIDS
You are now shifting the goalposts from implying that deaths were increasing to arguing that any death at all is a reason to ban guns....

[boutons_deux]

Translation: "that damned party line isn't giving me a rebuttal to TSA's facts!"


You are now shifting the goalposts from implying that deaths were increasing to arguing that any death at all is a reason to ban guns....

TSA introduced the increasing/decreasing bullshit, not me. Talk to her about it.

More Guns = More Gun Violence, More Gun Deaths

[Clipper Nation]

More Guns = More Gun Violence, More Gun Deaths
Once again, with the use of "more," you're implying that gun violence and deaths are on the rise when the data doesn't bear that out, tbh....

[boutons_deux]

Once again, with the use of "more," you're implying that gun violence and deaths are on the rise when the data doesn't bear that out, tbh....

you make the same error as TSA.

[TSA]

you make the same error as TSA.

Please then clarify what you mean by "more".

[boutons_deux]

Another result of the sicko USA gun culture: Americans solve problems with murder, what a fucking wonderful civilization

Shot and Killed at Work? It Happened to 375 People Last Year

Gun advocates have pushed through laws letting people bring their guns to work, storing them in their cars, in 22 states. The NRA says an Alabama version of the law, which went into effect this summer, "extends the current Castle Doctrine to include places of business to ensure the right of self-defense does not end when you enter your business."

Forcing property owners to allow guns is so intrusive, even an NRA member objected when the laws began surfacing eight years ago. Bob Thornton, a former liquor store owner, actually heckled NRA leader Wayne LaPierre at an Atlanta news conference which announced the campaign. "I really object to the government getting involved to say what's allowed on my property," he said, sporting a "Wayne Never Asked Me" T-shirt.

Joe Fleming, senior vice president for government affairs at the Georgia Chamber of Commerce agreed in a 2008 newspaper oped. The NRA has "threatened all Georgia senators who fail to fall on bended knee with ‘F's’ on the next NRA re-election scorecard," he wrote. “Those senators who don't succumb to the NRA's bully-tactics, name-calling, temper tantrums, insults and lies will be subjected to election-year retaliation." The Florida Retail Federation and Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida also opposed the coercive gun laws which force property owners to take on risks not their own.

As always, the NRA tries to make gun carriers victims instead of aggressors. Banning weapons on parking lots “is a wrecking ball for the Second Amendment,” pronounced Wayne LaPierre. “It's also a blueprint for totally eviscerating and nullifying right-to-carry legislation in 38 states in our country," because despite the “constitutional right to have a firearm” carriers “couldn’t stop anywhere.”

http://admin.alternet.org/speakeasy/martharosenberg/shot-and-killed-work-it-happened-375-people-last-year?akid=11088.187590.qsCHLO&rd=1&src=newsletter916298&t=11

you're ALL a bunch of gun-industry-suckered sickos

[TSA]

Please then clarify what you mean by "more".

Having trouble?

[boutons_deux]

Having trouble?

unregulatd, uncontrolled, wild-ass 300M+ guns in USA is MORE THAN say 25M

[TSA]

unregulatd, uncontrolled, wild-ass 300M+ guns in USA is MORE THAN say 25M

And this "more" gun violence you refer to, more compared to what?

[boutons_deux]

Four Ways Stand Your Ground Is Promoting Vigilantism (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/29/2851351/ways-stand-ground-promoting-vigilantism/)


1. Stand Your Ground casts aside the long-held duty to retreat. When Sen. Ted Cruz says the obligation to run away from an attacker is contrary to precedent, he is referring to what is known as the “duty to retreat.” As Sullivan explains (http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/10-29-13SullivanTestimony.pdf), the long-held principle that individuals must first attempt escape from a violent situation before using deadly force has been a bedrock of Anglo-American law for two centuries. There has long been one exception to this rule in some states known as the “Castle Doctrine,” which limits the duty to retreat in the home, on the rationale that one should not have to retreat from their own home. But in all other cases, the law has long asked individuals to minimize bodily harm and death as much as possible. That means they have a duty to retreat where they can do so safely. “If it’s unsafe to retreat, nowhere in our history is one required to retreat,” Sullivan writes. Stand Your Ground laws completely eliminate this duty. Sullivan explained his written testimony:

This emboldens individuals to escalate confrontation, even deadly confrontation, whereas an alternative rule would decrease the likelihood of deadly exchanges. The Trayvon Martin matter is a case in point. The very existence of this law emboldened Mr. Zimmerman to disregard the command of the 911 dispatcher and follow Trayvon Martin, arrogating law enforcement —what should be a public function—to himself. This private law enforcement attitude, made possible and emboldened by Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, coupled with a permissive concealed carry law, was the “but for” cause of Trayvon Martin’s death. But for the fact that Zimmerman exited his vehicle that evening, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.


2. The law grants blanket criminal and civil immunity. As Association of Prosecuting Attorneys President David LaBahn explains (http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/10-29-13LaBahnTestimony.pdf), criminal law rarely grants total, pretrial immunity. The few other circumstances in which total immunity is granted involve cooperation with law enforcement officers. In most cases, defendants can raise a self-defense claim at trial — when the facts and law are given a full airing, and where mitigating circumstances may yield conviction of a lesser criminal charge, such as involuntary homicide rather than murder. If a defendant requests a pretrial Stand Your Ground hearing, and the judge finds that the defendant reasonably feared imminent bodily harm, the judge can grant immunity from any and all charges before the trial begins. And in many cases, the law even provides immunity from arrest, as was initially the case with George Zimmerman.

3. The law presumes a killer’s fear was reasonable. One seeming limitation on Stand Your Ground laws is that the killer must have reasonably feared bodily harm. But in Florida, as in several other states, the law now presumes reasonableness if that killing took place in one’s home or vehicle. This was not a feature of the original Castle Doctrine. And it abrogates yet another of the fundamental limiting criminal law principles that took a back seat when the Stand Your Ground law was passed.

4. The law fosters self-perpetuating violence. Promoting vigilantism is one consequence of Stand Your Ground laws. But as Sullivan warns, behavioral changes may not be limited to those who want the right to Stand Your Ground. Particularly given the facts of the Trayvon Martin case, he warns that young black boys motivated by fear of adults like George Zimmerman may feel compelled to Stand their ground, too, in a cycle of shoot first, or be shot. “To be sure, this is not a world that I want my son to grow up in,” Sullivan says. But if he lived in a Stand Your Ground state, he said, he would have no choice but to advise his own young black son, ironically named Trey, to “shoot first” and ask questions later if he feels threatened by a stranger. “I would rather not counsel him in using lethal force when being profiled by vigilantes. That said, however, I would rather my Trey be alive and able to argue that he ‘stood his ground’ than dead and portrayed by lawyers and media alike as the personification of a stereotypical black male criminal.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/29/2851351/ways-stand-ground-promoting-vigilantism/

[boutons_deux]

And this "more" gun violence you refer to, more compared to what?

eg, 100s of accidentally dead kids and youth per year is MORE THAN zero dead

[TSA]

eg, 100s of accidentally dead kids and youth per year is MORE THAN zero dead

For fuck's sake, you've got nothing better than "it's more than zero"?

[boutons_deux]

For fuck's sake, you've got nothing better than "it's more than zero"?

As a gun-totin, 2nd-amendment-huggin, water-the-tree gun fellator, what's your acceptable number of, eg, dead babies, kids, youth killed in gun accidents?

[Clipper Nation]

For fuck's sake, you've got nothing better than "it's more than zero"?
I guess he doesn't realize that this same "logic" could easily be applied to pretty much anything that can kill someone? :lol

[boutons_deux]

I guess he doesn't realize that this same "logic" could easily be applied to pretty much anything that can kill someone? :lol

eg, heavily regulated, mandatory-insured, safety-engineered cars are not intended to kill someone, but effectively unregulated guns are intended as tools for killing.

your logic sucks

[Clipper Nation]

eg, heavily regulated, mandatory-insured, safety-engineered cars are not intended to kill someone, but effectively unregulated guns are intended as tools for killing.
Doesn't matter, one death by car is too many.... ban all cars!

/boutons "logic"

[Th'Pusher]

Doesn't matter, one death by car is too many.... ban all cars!

/boutons "logic"
Ironic you'd take issue bit bd's logic as your response is a strawman. No one, including boutons, is suggesting all guns should be banned.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesn't matter, one death by car is too many.... ban all cars!

/boutons "logic"

Guns are much more loosely regulated then cars wouldn't you say?

[TSA]

As a gun-totin, 2nd-amendment-huggin, water-the-tree gun fellator, what's your acceptable number of, eg, dead babies, kids, youth killed in gun accidents?

Appears you are waiving the white strawman flag of defeat. Quantify your "more gun violence".

[Th'Pusher]

Appears you are waiving the white strawman flag of defeat. Quantify your "more gun violence".How about more firearm deaths per capita than any other OECD country with the exception of Mexico?

[TSA]

How about more firearm deaths per capita than any other OECD country with the exception of Mexico?

Does firearms deaths include suicides in this data?

[Th'Pusher]

Does firearms deaths include suicides in this data?
Yes, but it's also true if you just look at homicides.

[TSA]

Why limit it to OECD members?

[Th'Pusher]

Why limit it to OECD members?

To filter out third world nations...we want to compare apples to apples as best we can, no?

[TSA]

To filter out third world nations...we want to compare apples to apples as best we can, no?

Can we filter out our third worlds as well? Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans?

[boutons_deux]

Appears you are waiving the white strawman flag of defeat.

:lol wishful thinking, my dear little bitch-slapped gun fellator

[boutons_deux]

Can we filter out our third worlds as well? Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans?

so those gun-violence cities don't count as America for you gun fellators?

Their, eg, black people who can obtain guns extremely easily thanks to you gun fellators and to the profit of gun sellers, aren't Real Americans? :lol

[TSA]

:lol wishful thinking, my dear little bitch-slapped gun fellator

Than instead of having Pusher define "more" for you why don't you do it yourself. What do YOU mean by more guns=more gun violence

[TSA]

so those gun-violence cities don't count as America for you gun fellators?

Their, eg, black people who can obtain guns extremely easily thanks to you gun fellators and to the profit of gun sellers, aren't Real Americans? :lol

If Pusher is omitting certain countries to get the data he wants I don't see the problem in doing the same.

[boutons_deux]

NRA Prevented Law That Could Have Saved 13-Year-Old From Police Shooting (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/31/2866871/nra-andy-lopez-death/)

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nrakidsguns1crop-233x300.jpg


California police fatally shot 13-year-old Andy Lopez (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/30/2851851/andy-lopez-tragedy/), because they mistook a BB gun for an assault rifle. In 2011, the National Rifle Association and gun manufacturers blocked the bill that could have prevented the tragedy.

State Senator Kevin de León’s bill from two years ago may have prevented the police confusion, by requiring the guns to be brightly colored and noticeably distinguishable. Media Matters points out that the NRA-ILA had campaigned actively (http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/31/nra-blocked-law-that-could-have-prevented-polic/196673) against the bill, alerting its members and lobbying state legislators in opposition. The NRA promoted claims that the bill would ban all air guns or would preempt federal law (even though similar measures have been upheld by court). After the bill’s defeat, the NRA celebrated and lauded itself (http://nranews.com/home/video/3-ca-anti-gun-bills-head-to-governor-s-desk) for stopping “the imitation BB gun ban.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/31/2866871/nra-andy-lopez-death/

More dead kids and more blood on your hands, gun fellators.

[TSA]

NRA Prevented Law That Could Have Saved 13-Year-Old From Police Shooting (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/31/2866871/nra-andy-lopez-death/)

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nrakidsguns1crop-233x300.jpg


California police fatally shot 13-year-old Andy Lopez (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/30/2851851/andy-lopez-tragedy/), because they mistook a BB gun for an assault rifle. In 2011, the National Rifle Association and gun manufacturers blocked the bill that could have prevented the tragedy.

State Senator Kevin de León’s bill from two years ago may have prevented the police confusion, by requiring the guns to be brightly colored and noticeably distinguishable. Media Matters points out that the NRA-ILA had campaigned actively (http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/31/nra-blocked-law-that-could-have-prevented-polic/196673) against the bill, alerting its members and lobbying state legislators in opposition. The NRA promoted claims that the bill would ban all air guns or would preempt federal law (even though similar measures have been upheld by court). After the bill’s defeat, the NRA celebrated and lauded itself (http://nranews.com/home/video/3-ca-anti-gun-bills-head-to-governor-s-desk) for stopping “the imitation BB gun ban.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/31/2866871/nra-andy-lopez-death/

More dead kids and more blood on your hands, gun fellators.



It was a tragic incident but give me a fucking break by trying to blame this on the NRA. The cop should have showed more restraint, but I want to know what type of parent let's their 13 year old walk around in public with a pellet gun that looks like an AK47. And why didn't the kid drop it when told to do so? There is a reason these guns are only sold to those that are 18+.

[boutons_deux]

the blood-thirsty, trigger-happy cop (shot the kid 7 times) is probably a member of NRA, at least in spirit.

NRA blocked the bill, the NRA killed this kid.

[TSA]

The cop, the kid, and the kid's mother are at fault.

[DeadlyDynasty]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_jersey&id=9313643

Luckily, he only killed himself, but it was quite a scare in the 2nd strictest gun law state (NJ), boutons.

[boutons_deux]

Obama was right, red necks clinging to their fetishes of guns and Bibles


"I think there are two things that are not taught in our schools that should be: one is gun safety and the other one is values and religion,"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gop-senate-candidate-wants-gun-safety-religion-taught-in-school-video

[TSA]

In January 2013, President Barack Obama issued 23 executive orders directing federal agencies to improve knowledge of the causes of firearm violence, what might help prevent it, and how to minimize its burden on public health. One of these orders directed the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to, along with other federal agencies, immediately begin identifying the most pressing problems in firearm violence research. The CDC and the CDC Foundation asked the IOM, in collaboration with the National Research Council, to convene a committee tasked with developing a potential research agenda that focuses on the causes of, possible interventions to, and strategies to minimize the burden of firearm-related violence.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319

From their findings....

"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…

…

The estimate of 3 million defensive uses per year is based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. The former estimate of 108,000 is difficult to interpret because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.

A different issue is whether defensive use of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self protective strategies."

[rascal]

I'm dancing there? :lol

the truth you refuse: MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE AND MORE GUN DEATHS

Zero guns in the country there would be zero deaths from guns. No other logic can be used. more guns = more gun violence because it becomes too easy for the guns to get into the wrong hands.

[rascal]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_jersey&id=9313643

Luckily, he only killed himself, but it was quite a scare in the 2nd strictest gun law state (NJ), boutons.

There ARE NO strict gun states in the entire country.

[rascal]

Doesn't matter, one death by car is too many.... ban all cars!

/boutons "logic"

Don't be stupid.

[rascal]

I guess he doesn't realize that this same "logic" could easily be applied to pretty much anything that can kill someone? :lol

Don't be stupid.

[TSA]

There ARE NO strict gun states in the entire country.

My state says hello.

[rascal]

http://i.imgur.com/s6HqyU4.png

Still way too high as compared with other countries.

[rascal]

My state says hello.

There are no strict gun states in the country, go live outside the USA if you want to see strict.

[TSA]

There are no strict gun states in the country, go live outside the USA if you want to see strict.

Mexico says hello.

[Winehole23]

Mexico gets all the guns they need from us.

[Winehole23]

According to the U.N., the U.S. had 3.0 firearm homicides per 100,000 in population in 2009. But there were 14 other nations that had higher rates in 2009, primarily in Latin America and the Caribbean: Honduras (57.6), Jamaica (47.2), St. Kitts and Nevis (44.4), Venezuela (39.0), Guatemala (38.5), Colombia (28.1), Trinidad & Tobago (27.3), Panama (19.3), Dominican Republic (16.9), Bahamas (15.4), Belize (15.4), Mexico (7.9), Paraguay (7.3) and Nicaragua (5.9). Three other nations had higher rates in 2008: El Salvador (39.9), Brazil (18.1) and Ecuador (12.7).

So the U.S. doesn’t rank no. 1 when firearm homicides are adjusted for population.

Where the U.S. does rank high in firearm violence

The main area where the U.S. exceeds the firearm violence of other nations is in comparison to other affluent nations. Using the U.N. data, European nations -- even former eastern bloc countries -- typically have rates well below 1 per 100,000, or far less than one-third the frequency seen in the U.S. The pattern is similar in other advanced industrialized nations, such as Canada, Taiwan, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

One study (http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/2011/01000/Homicide,_Suicide,_and_Unintentional_Firearm.35.as px) published in 2011 confirms this finding. The study, published in the Journal of Trauma -- Injury Infection & Critical Care, found that firearm homicide rates were 19.5 times higher in the U.S. than in 23 other "high income" countries studied, using 2003 data. Rates for other types of gun deaths were also higher in the U.S., but by somewhat smaller margins: 5.8 times higher for firearm suicides (even though overall suicide rates were 30 percent lower in the U.S.) and 5.2 times higher for unintentional firearm deaths.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/23/facebook-posts/the-us-is-no-in-gun-violence-is-it/

[boutons_deux]

duh :lol

New Research Details Strong Relationship Between White Racism and Gun Ownership

After adjusting for all explanatory variables in the model, symbolic racism was significantly related to having a gun in the home. Specifically, for each 1 point increase in symbolic racism, there was a 50% greater odds of having a gun in the home (see Table 1), and there was a 28% increase in the odds of supporting permits to carry concealed handguns...Opposition to gun control in US whites is somewhat paradoxical given the statistics on gun-related deaths, and such opposition may be undermining the public health of all US citizens. DUH!

This study examined for the first time whether racism is related to gun ownership and the opposition to gun control in US whites. The results support the hypothesis by showing that greater symbolic racism is related to increased odds of having a gun in the home and greater opposition to gun control, after accounting for all other explanatory variables.

It is particularly noteworthy that the relationship between symbolic racism and the gun-related outcomes was maintained in the presence of conservative ideologies, political affiliation, opposition to government control, and being from a southern state, which are otherwise strong predictors of gun ownership and opposition to gun reform.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/new-research-details-strong-relationship-between-white-racism-and-gun-ownership?akid=11130.187590.zaJPPZ&rd=1&src=newsletter922213&t=17&paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

[TSA]

duh :lol

New Research Details Strong Relationship Between White Racism and Gun Ownership

After adjusting for all explanatory variables in the model, symbolic racism was significantly related to having a gun in the home. Specifically, for each 1 point increase in symbolic racism, there was a 50% greater odds of having a gun in the home (see Table 1), and there was a 28% increase in the odds of supporting permits to carry concealed handguns...Opposition to gun control in US whites is somewhat paradoxical given the statistics on gun-related deaths, and such opposition may be undermining the public health of all US citizens. DUH!

This study examined for the first time whether racism is related to gun ownership and the opposition to gun control in US whites. The results support the hypothesis by showing that greater symbolic racism is related to increased odds of having a gun in the home and greater opposition to gun control, after accounting for all other explanatory variables.

It is particularly noteworthy that the relationship between symbolic racism and the gun-related outcomes was maintained in the presence of conservative ideologies, political affiliation, opposition to government control, and being from a southern state, which are otherwise strong predictors of gun ownership and opposition to gun reform.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/new-research-details-strong-relationship-between-white-racism-and-gun-ownership?akid=11130.187590.zaJPPZ&rd=1&src=newsletter922213&t=17&paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark




When alternet does a study on Black gun violence and what it is tied to please keep us updated.

[boutons_deux]

When alternet does a study on Black gun violence and what it is tied to please keep us updated.

Alternet didn't do the study.

When you gun fellators shilling for the gun industry to flood the USA with unregulated gun sales, which includes sales to criminals OF ALL COLORS, ex-felons, drunks, spouse beaters, dickless white rural pissed off bubbas, etc, etc, please keep us updated.

[TSA]

Got any number estimates on unregulated gun sales?

[boutons_deux]

goddam, you gun fellators are bunch of dickless chickenshit bullies with manhood problems

Texas Moms Gun Control Meeting Disrupted By Armed Protesters

A small meeting for a gun control group in Texas was disrupted on Saturday by dozens of armed, pro-gun advocates, some of whom were photographed kneeling in a parking lot and brandishing their weapons.

According to a statement from the gun control group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, four of its members were meeting inside the Blue Mesa Grill in Dallas when the confrontation took place.


http://a1.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/title-headline--50.jpg

A small meeting for a gun control group in Texas was disrupted on Saturday by dozens of armed, pro-gun advocates, some of whom were photographed kneeling in a parking lot and brandishing their weapons.

According to a statement from the gun control group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, four of its members were meeting inside the Blue Mesa Grill in Dallas when the confrontation took place.

"Our mom members and restaurant customers were terrified by what appeared to be an armed ambush," the group said in a statement. "Sadly, these bullies are attempting to use guns to intimidate moms and children and to infringe on our constitutional right to free speech. But Moms Demand Action will not be deterred. The desperate actions of this vocal minority only fuels our determination to fight for gun reform in Texas and across the country. Change will come."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/texas-moms-gun-control-meeting-disrupted-by-armed-protestors-photo

[TSA]

goddam, you gun fellators are bunch of dickless chickenshit bullies with manhood problems

Texas Moms Gun Control Meeting Disrupted By Armed Protesters

A small meeting for a gun control group in Texas was disrupted on Saturday by dozens of armed, pro-gun advocates, some of whom were photographed kneeling in a parking lot and brandishing their weapons.

According to a statement from the gun control group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, four of its members were meeting inside the Blue Mesa Grill in Dallas when the confrontation took place.


http://a1.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/title-headline--50.jpg

A small meeting for a gun control group in Texas was disrupted on Saturday by dozens of armed, pro-gun advocates, some of whom were photographed kneeling in a parking lot and brandishing their weapons.

According to a statement from the gun control group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, four of its members were meeting inside the Blue Mesa Grill in Dallas when the confrontation took place.

"Our mom members and restaurant customers were terrified by what appeared to be an armed ambush," the group said in a statement. "Sadly, these bullies are attempting to use guns to intimidate moms and children and to infringe on our constitutional right to free speech. But Moms Demand Action will not be deterred. The desperate actions of this vocal minority only fuels our determination to fight for gun reform in Texas and across the country. Change will come."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/texas-moms-gun-control-meeting-disrupted-by-armed-protestors-photo


These guys are protected under the Constitution as well. Having said that, it's dipshits like this that give gun owners a bad image. Yes, some states allow open carry and they are well within their rights to do so, but walking around with rifles to get attention is absolutely idiotic and detrimental to their cause. Not going to be long before one of these idiots gets shot by someone carrying concealed that views them as a threat. I love guns, but that doesn't mean I want to see a guy with a rifle slung over his back while I'm ordering a coffee.

[TSA]

I still don't agree with those guys carrying rifles in public like that but I just saw the same picture from the front angle and they are simply posing for a group shot.

Another thing I find funny about this is that the group of mothers said they were bullied, yet they never called the police.

[boutons_deux]

I still don't agree with those guys carrying rifles in public like that but I just saw the same picture from the front angle and they are simply posing for a group shot.

Another thing I find funny about this is that the group of mothers said they were bullied, yet they never called the police.

Maybe they understood that gun fellatin assholes in TX can walk around armed to the teeth legally.

Would have been hilarious if a mother pulled out her own high-cap-clip automatic assault rifle and mowed the gun fellators down because she felt threatened.

[AntiChrist]

Maybe they understood that gun fellatin assholes in TX can walk around armed to the teeth legally.

Would have been hilarious if a mother pulled out her own high-cap-clip automatic assault rifle and mowed the gun fellators down because she felt threatened.


bBPrdX-cqF0

[boutons_deux]

Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst (http://www.texastribune.org/directory/david-dewhurst/) on Tuesday called for a congressional investigation into whether the National Security Agency's domestic spying program has ever targeted gun owners, kept a list of firearms purchases or tracked gunshow visits.

http://www.texastribune.org/2013/11/12/texas-lt-gov-did-nsa-violate-gun-owners-rights/?utm_source=texastribune.org&utm_medium=alerts&utm_campaign=News%20Alert:%20Subscriptions

[boutons_deux]

On December 9, a law banning firearms that can go unnoticed by a metal detector is set to expire. Since 1988, the Undetectable Firearms Act has banned (http://www.care2.com/greenliving/10-foods-sold-in-the-u-s-that-are-banned-elsewhere.html?lc=int_mb_1001) undetectable guns, which can be made from plastic through 3D printers.

Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) and Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) have introduced legislation (http://www.schumer.senate.gov/Newsroom/record.cfm?id=344058) that expands the undetectable firearms law to ban 3D-printed guns, require guns to be recognizable as guns, and to contain significant metal. “The expiration of this law, combined with advances in 3D printing, make what was once a hypothetical threat into a terrifying reality,” Schumer said, according to the Associated Press. Rep. Steve Israel (D-NY) introduced his own version (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d113:3:./temp/~bd78g4::) in the House to renew the law. Still, the urgency of the issue does not mean Congress will take up the bills in its remaining days.

Even the soon-to-expire law contains a major loophole (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/14/threat-plastic-guns-grows-as-undetectable-firearm-law-set-to-expire/) that permits plastic guns as long as they have a small metal piece that could be easily removed. One widespread model, the Liberator, uses a nail so small that it would not be picked up by metal detectors. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives recently tested the model (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/3d-guns-atf_n_4269303.html), only to find that “the .380 bullets fired from the Liberator penetrate sufficiently to reach vital organs and perforate the skull.”

http://www.care2.com/causes/the-only-law-standing-in-the-way-of-completely-legal-undetectable-guns-is-about-to-expire.html#ixzz2kurP6hvp

tea baggers and Repugs will block any legislation that extends/expands a ban on non-metal/non-detectable guns. Freedom! Home Defense! Water the Tree! Marans! 2nd Amendment! Liberty!

[boutons_deux]

Texas Gun Club grand opening goes wrong when employee shoots own handThe grand opening week of the Frisco Gun Club of Frisco, Texas was marred by an accident at the shooting range when an employee shot his own hand while trying to clear a jammed Ruger 9-millimeter handgun.


According to Claire St. Amant of CultureMap Dallas (http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/life/12-16-13-frisco-gun-club-employee-accidentally-shoots-himself-grand-opening-weekend/), the shooting club opened on December 13 with a ceremonial ribbon cutting. Within 24 hours, an ambulance was called to the scene to aid the injured employee.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/19/texas-gun-club-grand-opening-goes-wrong-when-employee-shoots-own-hand/

:lol

[boutons_deux]

gun fellators Dixie-Chick-ing Toby
Gun rights advocates freak out over ‘No Guns’ sign at singer Toby Keith’s restaurant

denounce Keith as a “gun hating liberal,” a “fake,” and a “Republican In Name Only” or “RINO.”

“So if ‘no guns are allowed’ I guess that means that police officers that are ‘on duty’ aren’t allowed in for lunch or dinner??” asked Facebook user Connie Hollar Wright on the restaurant’s Facebook page. “Who are you guys callin [sic] when you need help???? Good luck with that!”

“Toby is a gun hating liberal. What a fake,” wrote another.

“Won’t go into a Killing zone,” said another commenter with a “Duck Dynasty” avatar, “which is what gun free zones are.”

A post at right-wing website Breitbart.com protested that (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/27/Toby-Keith-s-Bar-Grill-Opens-In-VA-Sign-On-Door-No-Guns-Permitted), “(o)ne of Toby Keith’s biggest country video hits is ‘Bullets in the Gun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS5H3Of4-E).’ It romanticizes carrying a gun.”

He supported President George W. Bush when rival act the Dixie Chicks criticized Bush at the outset of the War in Iraq.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/28/gun-rights-advocates-freak-out-over-no-guns-sign-at-singer-toby-keiths-restaurant/

gun fellators are tetchy bunch, tetched in the haid.

[rascal]

I still don't agree with those guys carrying rifles in public like that but I just saw the same picture from the front angle and they are simply posing for a group shot.

Another thing I find funny about this is that the group of mothers said they were bullied, yet they never called the police.

Don't think they just went to their cars and got their guns for the photo and then went back to their cars and dropped off the guns.

[Th'Pusher]

futk

[Wild Cobra]

When will you guys look at the facts. It isn't gun control, it's the culture of race.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Politics/2010gundeathvsBradyscore_zps182e6cd5.png (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/Wild_Cobra/media/Politics/2010gundeathvsBradyscore_zps182e6cd5.png.html)

I put a trend line in the excel graph. it has a very minor reducing effect as the Brady score increases.

Anyone ever consider race? race itself is not the cause in my opinion, but culture based on race is. We have a significant number of Hispanics and Blacks with a different value of human life than most whites. Here is a graph plotted after sorting the states by percentage of Blacks plus Hispanics:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Politics/2010gundeathvsblacksandhispanics_zps54b1521c.png (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/Wild_Cobra/media/Politics/2010gundeathvsblacksandhispanics_zps54b1521c.png.h tml)

When will you liberal lemmings stop eating the donkeyshit from the left, and come to terms with reality?

[boutons_deux]

300M+ guns already in USA, very transportable, anybody who really wants one, can get one. city/state gun regs NOW aren't very effective, we need extremely strict, retro-active FEDERAL guns laws.

when will WC get something beside donkey shit between his ears?

[Wild Cobra]

300M+ guns already in USA, very transportable, anybody who really wants one, can get one. city/state gun regs NOW aren't very effective, we need extremely strict, retro-active FEDERAL guns laws.

when will WC get something beside donkey shit between his ears?

LOL...

Maybe you should address the facts.

[boutons_deux]

My facts destroyed your bullshit.

[boutons_deux]

NRA News Fights For The Right To Leave Unsecured Guns Around Children

NRA News host Cam Edwards attacked laws to prevent children from accessing guns by positing that there should be no criminal penalty even when an admittedly careless adult allows a child access to a gun that the child then uses to kill themselves.

On the January 6 edition of NRA News program Cam & Company, Edwards attacked Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America founder Shannon Watts for advocating for state laws that create a criminal penalty for adults that negligently allow children access to firearms. In an interview (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/05/ind-mom-takes-on-gun-lobby/4331555/) with USA Today, Watts cited the fact that only 15 states have child access prevention laws and contended, "This idea that a shooting that involves a toddler is accidental is asinine. If I was drinking and driving and hit my son, I would immediately go to jail. But if I left my firearm on the top of the refrigerator and he found it and shot himself, everyone says, what a horrible accident."

Edwards responded to Watts' USA Today interview by suggesting that if "you are careless with a firearm and one of your own children accidentally kills themself" that the "horror" of the incident alone would be sufficient punishment for the adult. But in arguing against laws that criminalize negligently allowing children to access guns, Edwards ignores that research has shown (http://smartgunlaws.org/child-access-prevention-policy-summary/) that these laws are associated with a reduction in gun deaths among children resulting from accidents and suicide.

Mocking Watts' comparison between a child access prevention law and a law that criminalizes killing someone while drunk driving, Edwards said, "We don't have a negligent storage law for alcohol," and, "We don't have a negligent storage law for automobiles, and so I'm not quite sure what she is talking about." But state criminal laws governing the storage of dangerous items are hardly uncommon. For example, Michigan has a number of criminal laws (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-oci-environmentalcrimeshandbook_248437_7.pdf#page=11) concerning the improper storage of hazardous materials with increased penalties for conduct that endangers the public.

Edwards also attempted to distract from an epidemic of fatal gun accidents involving young children (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0) by highlighting unintentional deaths caused in children by suffocation and other methods. Even so, according to the Centers for Disease Control (http://mediamatters.org/static/uploader/image/2014/01/07/unintentionaldeath.jpg) unintentional shootings remain a top ten cause of accidental death for children ages 1-4 and 10-14. (Firearm homicides are the top violence-related cause of death (http://mediamatters.org/static/uploader/image/2014/01/07/violencerelated.jpg) for children 5-9 and a top five violence-related cause of death for children of all ages.)

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/01/08/nra-news-fights-for-the-right-to-leave-unsecure/197479

The NRA whores and other gun fellators will say anything for gun industry money.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As an aside does anyone trust a WC created graph?

[TSA]

As an aside does anyone trust a WC created graph?

Seems legit just for the fact that every single anti-gunner has refused to refute it.

[TSA]

Even so, according to the Centers for Disease Control unintentional shootings remain a top ten cause of accidental death for children ages 1-4 and 10-14.

I'd like to see the other 9 leading causes of accidental deaths and the corresponding criminal punishments that go along with allowing children access.

[TSA]

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/uploader/image/2014/01/07/unintentionaldeath.jpg

Fuck those bathtubs are extremely violent. Time to regulate the unsecured bathtubs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Seems legit just for the fact that every single anti-gunner has refused to refute it.

And by what basis do you say it is legit? It is not sourced nor are the statistics displayed correctly if at all on the axes.

He doesn't even analyze the data. The x axis is geographically based. You use a map to show that and not a linear graph. The points don't correlate despite his attempts to cook the display. To give you a hint what I mean by that, the high murder values do not have a corresponding high racial presence. If anything it disproves his assertion. Even more dumbed down: look at the spikes.

Quite frankly the attempt is per par WC stupidity that you per par eat up like the dimwit you are. You should use one of your guns on yourself.

[TSA]

Fuzzy I challenge you to plot a graph using the percentages of blacks/latinos residing in each state and the corresponding numbers of murders in each state. Make sure everything is sourced. Show everyone how much more superior your graph making skills are then Wild Cobras.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy I challenge you to plot a graph using the percentages of blacks/latinos residing in each state and the corresponding numbers of murders in each state. Make sure everything is sourced. Show everyone how much more superior your graph making skills are then Wild Cobras.

:lol challenge

I just said I wouldn't use a graph but a map. You do not even address my comments on correlation.

I don't need to come up with a counter. You cannot even respond to the refutations I gave.

Your stupidity is showing.

[TSA]

:lol challenge

I just said I wouldn't use a graph but a map. You do not even address my comments on correlation.

I don't need to come up with a counter. You cannot even respond to the refutations I gave.

Your stupidity is showing.

This does not look like a graph nor a geographical map.

[boutons_deux]

we saw a whopping 23 kids accidentally shot last week, including eight preteens. Just two of them were hit by New Year's Eve random gunfire, however.

It was a busy week for the kids, even without that.New Year's Eve, of course, is in a class all by itself. As near as I could tell from available reports, five people were shot by random, celebratory gunfire in Los Angeles, CA; San Antonio, TX; Hebbronville, TX; Newport News, VA; and Gadsden, AL.

New Year's Eve revelers also blasted into at least 15 homes this week and two cars (not including four more homes fired into under other circumstances), in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Michigan, Indiana, Missouri, Nevada, Ohio, and Virginia. Three people involved in celebratory gunfire incidents accidentally shot themselves, and two were accidentally shot at parties.

Six hunting GunFAIL incidents were counted, plus three recreational or target shooting accidents. Two defensive gun users accidentally wounded themselves, as well, as sometimes happens during the excitement and confusion.

Two people also accidentally shot themselves while cleaning their weapons, which should never happen.

And three gun owners out and about, shopping and dining with the rest of us accidentally lost some bullets this week.

One who shot himself in a Walmart parking lot in Mississippi, one who accidentally fired a pistol in his pocket in a restaurant in Georgia, and a third who dropped her gun and shot another shopper in a Lowe's in Cheyenne, WY.

And lastly, we had one more family member allegedly mistaken for an intruder and shot this week.

All in all, a hell of a week, and the first one I can recall pushing the total number of accidents over 80. Without further ado, then, this week's list, below the fold.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/08/1265789/-Welcome-to-Lowe-s-How-may-I-shoot-you-P-S-23-kids-accidentally-shot-last-week-GunFAIL-LI?detail=email

:lol

Freedom!

Water the Tree!

2nd Amendment!

Home Defense!

:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This does not look like a graph nor a geographical map.

It's like talking with a MR kid.

I just said that I do not need to as my refutations discredit his charts on their own. It would make sense to show a counter example if his example was good on its own merit. That is a legit technique but not necessarily when your opponents case is shit on its own merits.

At this point, any other reader understands that using a 2D graph when the data points for the dependent variable are geographic is invalid as it presents a proportional, linear argument when there is none. Frankly it shows a deep ignorance into how numbers work. '1, 2, 3' is not the same as 'Hawaii, Wisconsin, Missouri.' This is not surprising considering WC is the source.

If you repeat your same 'this doesn't look like what I asked for' routine I am going to do the same thing I always do and ignore it. Same goes with the asperger comments when you try the 'I was just joking' line to try and cover for your stupidity.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How about a graph of gun crime the ten years before and after the passage of the Brady bill?

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1853/populationfirearmsdeath.jpg

[TSA]

It's like talking with a MR kid.

I just said that I do not need to as my refutations discredit his charts on their own. It would make sense to show a counter example if his example was good on its own merit. That is a legit technique but not necessarily when your opponents case is shit on its own merits.

At this point, any other reader understands that using a 2D graph when the data points for the dependent variable are geographic is invalid as it presents a proportional, linear argument when there is none. Frankly it shows a deep ignorance into how numbers work. '1, 2, 3' is not the same as 'Hawaii, Wisconsin, Missouri.' This is not surprising considering WC is the source.

If you repeat your same 'this doesn't look like what I asked for' routine I am going to do the same thing I always do and ignore it. Same goes with the asperger comments when you try the 'I was just joking' line to try and cover for your stupidity.


This is like talking to a guy with Asperbergers.

[TSA]

How about a graph of gun crime the ten years before and after the passage of the Brady bill?

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1853/populationfirearmsdeath.jpg


This graph has nothing to do with what WC was graphing as I'm sure you are aware as he was correlating race % and murders per state. But since you posted it let's discuss it.


Since you posted it I assume you agree with the graph in that the Brady bill caused the reduction in murders. Am I correct?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When will you guys look at the facts. It isn't gun control, it's the culture of race.


This graph has nothing to do with what WC was graphing as I'm sure you are aware as he was correlating race % and murders per state. But since you posted it let's discuss it.


Since you posted it I assume you agree with the graph in that the Brady bill caused the reduction in murders. Am I correct?

God you are dumb. First sentence of his graph post.

I just showed that the 5 last major changes in national gun laws correlated in a change in the firearm related death rate. Compare that with the graph of racial demographics which saw the death rate go up and down independent of the demographic trend.

[TSA]

God you are dumb. First sentence of his graph post.

I just showed that the 5 last major changes in national gun laws correlated in a change in the firearm related death rate. Compare that with the graph of racial demographics which saw the death rate go up and down independent of the demographic trend.

It was a simple question. Do you believe the Brady bill was the cause of the drop in murders?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It was a simple question. Do you believe the Brady bill was the cause of the drop in murders?

You can neither read a graph nor what I have written and understand it. Read both and try again. If you ask a pertinent question to the material then I will answer.

[TSA]

You can neither read a graph nor what I have written and understand it. Read both and try again. If you ask a pertinent question to the material then I will answer.

My question is pertinent to your graph and is pretty simple. Do you think the Brady bill was the cause of the drop in murders?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My question is pertinent to your graph and is pretty simple. Do you think the Brady bill was the cause of the drop in murders?

I think you need to read the legend of the graph and try again.

As to your point, I do think that it is interesting that in each case of significant changes in gun control policy over the past 60 years that there has been a corresponding jump as you would expect. It is after all what the law was written to do. Correlation is not necessarily causation but it keeps happening here and abroad.

[BradLohaus]

Anybody can double check this if they'd like: black males under 50 are around 5% of the population but commit half of the violent crime in the US. With that fact, surely nobody can be surprised that the demographics of a state, or any area, are a better indicator of gun crime than the gun laws of that area. Gun culture is big in Finland and Switzerland too. IIRC every adult male in Switzerland has to own a rifle.

[TSA]

I think you need to read the legend of the graph and try again.

As to your point, I do think that it is interesting that in each case of significant changes in gun control policy over the past 60 years that there has been a corresponding jump as you would expect. It is after all what the law was written to do. Correlation is not necessarily causation but it keeps happening here and abroad.
Did the Brady bill cause the drop in murders? Yes or no.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did the Brady bill cause the drop in murders? Yes or no.

:lol you're barely literate. as they say, ' you can lead a horse to water.' we are not talking about murders, dipshit. at least not exclusively.

[TSA]

:lol you're barely literate. as they say, ' you can lead a horse to water.' we are not talking about murders, dipshit. at least not exclusively.

My bad. Are you saying the Brady bill caused the sharp decrease in firearm related deaths?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My bad. Are you saying the Brady bill caused the sharp decrease in firearm related deaths?

With absolute certainty? No. I do think the evidence points strongly to the efficacy of gun control legislation and I think intelligent policymakers should look to it.

When you look at the response in the time frame following the passage of the Brady Bill, assault weapon ban, repeal of the ban, repeal of waiting lists, passage of the firearms protections act, the australian semiauto ban, etc. They all get the effects that were intended by the policy. Unfortunately, your masters have gone a long way in preventing the tracking of most individual guns so anything other than the most general analysis is by definition incomplete.

[pgardn]

Anybody can double check this if they'd like: black males under 50 are around 5% of the population but commit half of the violent crime in the US. With that fact, surely nobody can be surprised that the demographics of a state, or any area, are a better indicator of gun crime than the gun laws of that area. Gun culture is big in Finland and Switzerland too. IIRC every adult male in Switzerland has to own a rifle.

Makes it pretty clear when a country has a significant underclass that feels disenfranchised they will commit crime. How big is that underclass in Finland and Switzerland? So you believe in a more socialistic homogenous society to prevent gun crime?

Why did you leave out Norway I wonder.

[TSA]

With absolute certainty? No. I do think the evidence points strongly to the efficacy of gun control legislation and I think intelligent policymakers should look to it.

When you look at the response in the time frame following the passage of the Brady Bill, assault weapon ban, repeal of the ban, repeal of waiting lists, passage of the firearms protections act, the australian semiauto ban, etc. They all get the effects that were intended by the policy. Unfortunately, your masters have gone a long way in preventing the tracking of most individual guns so anything other than the most general analysis is by definition incomplete.

Firearm related deaths were already trending downward before the Brady bill was passed. This graph ignores some very important factors that relate to the decrease in firearm related deaths. I was surprised you even posted it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Firearm related deaths were already trending downward before the Brady bill was passed. This graph ignores some very important factors that relate to the decrease in firearm related deaths. I was surprised you even posted it.

Your canned argument is that it was trending downward when the law when into effect. The downward trend began in the years prior to that in the aftermath of the LA riots and law enforcement surge when the law wsa being negotiated in congress. Even still once the law went into effect the rate of decrease doubled.

Is your dumbass really arguing against the Brady Bill?

you ignore the death rate response to the other gun control laws. It's pretty evident that gun control laws effect society in the manner that they are designed to do.

[TSA]

Your canned argument is that it was trending downward when the law when into effect. The downward trend began in the years prior to that in the aftermath of the LA riots and law enforcement surge when the law wsa being negotiated in congress. Even still once the law went into effect the rate of decrease doubled.

Is your dumbass really arguing against the Brady Bill?

you ignore the death rate response to the other gun control laws. It's pretty evident that gun control laws effect society in the manner that they are designed to do.

I'm not arguing against the Brady bill, I just pointed out your graph is very misleading as it only focuses on gun control and tries to paint the picture that gun control was the only cause of the decrease in firearm related deaths.


http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12472&page=17

1993 and the Decline in Demand for Crack by New Users

The third major turning point depicted in Figure 2-1 occurred about 1993, which was the start of the major downturn documented in The Crime Drop in America (Blumstein and Wallman, 2006; see also Zimring, 2006). That book discusses the shrinkage in crack markets that resulted from a major drop in demand for crack by new users and the consequent departure from the crack markets of the young recruits (Johnson, Golub, and Dunlap, 2006). A robust economy could absorb those young people; unemployment rates for African-American teenagers reached 20- to 30-year lows by the mid-1990s (Nasar, 1998; Nasar and Mitchell, 1999). Between 1992 and 2000, unemployment dropped by 30 percent among African Americans without a high school diploma and by over 50 percent among similarly situated Hispanics (U.S. Census Bureau, 2006). Aggressive policing focused on young people with guns probably also contributed to the violent crime drop, although the effects of such programs have been documented for only a few cities (e.g., Kennedy et al., 2001).

Another contributor was the continued drop in violent crime by people over 30, resulting in part from the growing prison population (Blumstein, 2006; Rosenfeld, 2006a). During the 1990s, the median age of state prisoners reached the early 30s, which criminal career research suggests is the age with the longest residual career following a criminal justice intervention. Thus, the departure of young people from the crack markets combined with the continuing decline of violence by the over-30 population were major factors contributing to the steady decline in violent crime from about 1993 until 2000. The role of aggressive policing of young people with guns or of other innovative policing strategies introduced during the decade is less easy to identify strongly (Eck and Maguire, 2006; Rosenfeld, Fornango, and Baumer, 2005).

[TSA]

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2003_spr/cook.htm

The Brady Bill, the most important piece of federal gun control legislation in recent decades, has had no statistically discernable effect on reducing gun deaths, according to a study by Philip J. Cook, a Duke University professor of public policy, economics and sociology. "The Brady Bill seems to have been a failure," Cook told a sparsely attended lecture in Caplin Pavilion on March 11. "But that doesn't mean gun control is doomed to failure."

Regarded as the nation's foremost authority on gun control, Cook spoke on "Evaluating the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act" to inaugurate a new lecture series on public health, law and ethics issues. Elected in 2001 to the prestigious Institute of Medicine, Cook is also known for his work on alcohol problems. In a 1981 study, he demonstrated that alcohol taxes have a direct effect on reducing drinking.

Passed in 1993, the Brady Bill was named for Ronald Reagan's press secretary, James Brady, who was badly wounded in the assassination attempt on Reagan in March 1981. Brady's wife Sarah subsequently became widely known for advocacy of the law and gun control in general.

The Brady Bill had two iterations, Cook explained, but in each the law applies only to handgun sales by federally licensed gun dealers. In the first version, in effect from 1994 to 1997, there were background check and waiting-period provisions. In 1997, the Supreme Court struck down the background check component on 10th Amendment grounds, ruling that the provision usurped states' rights. A new version was passed in 1998, this time covering all guns, instituting an "instant" background check of states' and FBI databases identifying criminals and requiring a three-day waiting period. Fingerprint checks have never been required. At the time it first passed, the law obliged 32 states to change laws to come into conformity. Laws in 18 states were already in compliance and these made an ideal control group for a study, Cook said. Following the 1998 revision only two states—Ohio and Arkansas—did not reestablish background checks, but Cook said they nonetheless remained in the group considered "treatment" states by the study.

Data shows a slow gradual decline in gun homicides from 1993 to the present, a trend that started before the Brady Bill passed, but figures from both the control and treatment states track virtually identically. "Control and treatment states had the same gun homicide rates before and after the Brady law passed," Cook said. "It made no discernable difference. There is no statistically significant effect."

Data on gun suicides showed the same trends, though Cook said there is "some hint of an effect" on the gun suicide rate for persons over age 55, some of whom appear to be deterred by the waiting period. But overall suicide rates do not decline, suggesting that some people simply changed their method when they couldn't get a gun more easily.

Cook, who acknowledged that his personal sympathies are for gun control, said, "Maybe the law did save a handful of lives, a couple hundred per year," and that other public health and safety laws are enacted to save similar numbers of lives.

On the plus side, there is strong evidence that the law undermined gun-running operations that were buying large numbers of guns in southern states and transporting them north for resale, he said. The law has also helped improve criminal history records. Proponents of the law also point to the 60,000 people trying to buy guns who were turned down after background checks revealed that they were felons. But a later California study showed that the turndowns had no effect on criminal activity.

Cook said the real problem is the law's "gaping barn door" for unregulated sales, mainly at gun shows, but no one knows how many guns are bought with false IDs or exchanged privately, to say nothing of those being stolen.


He praised an Illinois law that requires gun owners to have ID cards and to record the ID numbers of individuals they sell guns to. Failure to keep records or report a stolen gun can result in prosecution. Cook also endorsed gun locks as a cheap and sensible way to render guns useless except to the owner.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We have had this same discussion before and you are arguing against the Brady Bill because you are posting the same studies we discussed awhile ago.

Now I will ask the same question I asked before: can you explain what controlling variables means?

[TSA]

OVB

[TSA]

We have had this same discussion before and you are arguing against the Brady Bill because you are posting the same studies we discussed awhile ago. you are incorrect. A while ago I argued that more guns did not equal more gun violence, and your graph clearly agrees with me. :lol


Now I will ask the same question I asked before: can you explain what controlling variables means?
Can you explain omitted-variable bias?

[BradLohaus]

Makes it pretty clear when a country has a significant underclass that feels disenfranchised they will commit crime.
Uh... I guess I could ask where it is that a significant number of blacks don't commit crime, but that would be racist, so I want to make it clear that I'm NOT asking that. I've heard Barbados is nice though.

How big is that underclass in Finland and Switzerland? So you believe in a more socialistic homogenous society to prevent gun crime?
Finland almost none. Switzerland has a little more with imported workers and a surprisingly high Muslim population. 2nd question: Yep. Socialism is fine as long as the relatively small, homogenous society agrees to it. It's kind of like a really big family. Wait, that's exactly what it is.

Why did you leave out Norway I wonder.
No reason. I think they have a gun culture but not on the level of the Swiss or Finns. I can't imagine they have a high murder rate though, probably due to their homogenous society.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you are incorrect. A while ago I argued that more guns did not equal more gun violence, and your graph clearly agrees with me. :lol


Can you explain omitted-variable bias?

Answering a question with a question. No variables have been omitted. Now answer my question as to what you think controlling variables means or more importantly how it pertains to the discussion at hand..

[TSA]

Answering a question with a question. No variables have been omitted. Now answer my question as to what you think controlling variables means or more importantly how it pertains to the discussion at hand..
Of course variables have been omitted, I just listed them in post #651. And :lol at your no comment on the amount of guns in circulation rising while gun related deaths declined. Your own graph shit on your argument from last year.

[BradLohaus]

Here's an international graph

https://twitter.com/Just_a_Texan/status/419115998793330688/photo/1

[boutons_deux]

still no proof that 300M+ guns floating around USA causes any decline in (school children) murders, gun accidents, etc.

google "lead and violence" (not lead bullets, just the element lead). Pretty amazing, across decades and many countries.

how many dickless Texans Macho Men packing heat have EVER stopped a murder? vs how many of their kids and others are dead from gun accidents? :lol

[boutons_deux]

The KY legislator who fired her gun in the state capitol isn't even our craziest story. GunFAIL LII (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/13/1267203/-The-KY-legislator-who-fired-her-gun-in-the-state-capitol-isn-t-even-our-craziest-story-GunFAIL-LII)

Three home invasion shootings, three accidental shootings between siblings, two hunting accidents, two gun cleaning accidents, and just four kids accidentally shot. A few of the more unique stats would include four wives and/or girlfriends accidentally shot by husbands and/or boyfriends (and one boyfriend accidentally shot by a girlfriend), the four "bad guys with a gun" who stopped (or at least accidentally shot) themselves, one guy who accidentally shot himself hunting for an intruder who wasn't there, and one state legislator who accidentally discharged her weapon in the capitol complex in Frankfort, Kentucky.But that last one wasn't even our most dismaying story. Take your pick from among the upstate New York restaurant patron who accidentally shot himself and his guest (but kept muttering about how he had a permit), the Rochester, New Hampshire, man shot in the head (and yet unhurt!) by a neighbor's gun cleaning accident, or the young Janesville, Wisconsin, man who thought he heard someone breaking into his 13-year-old sister's room, so he just blasted through the door without opening it. There was someone in there, of course. But yes, it was his sister. And no one else.

In other news, there's an update to one of the purported New Year's Even celebratory gunfire incidents.

The six-year-old shot in Newport News, Virginia, it turns out, was actually shot not by random gunfire, but by his 21-year-old brother (http://www.wvec.com/news/Child-injured-when-gun-discharges-two-charged--239623791.html).




WOODLAND, WA (http://tdn.com/news/local/police-teen-shot-during-attempted-robbery-of-drug-dealer/article_d08fe3c8-7b5b-11e3-90e8-0019bb2963f4.html), 12/15/13: Talk about a forgiving drug dealer. First, two teenagers tried to rob him at gunpoint after meeting him in Woodland to buy pot, police said Saturday. Then there was a struggle and the gun went off, putting a bullet through the arm of one of his teenage attackers. And then, despite the fact that the teens had threatened him with a stolen handgun, the pot dealer invited them into a friend’s home and helped the injured boy bandage his gunshot wound, police said. “The drug dealer felt so bad that (the boy) got shot that he helped bandage him up,” Woodland officer Jim Keller said Saturday. The marijuana dealer, whom authorities have not named publicly, is not expected to face charges related to the incident, which occurred Dec. 15, Keller said. The 17-year-old was treated and released a short time later at an area hospital.
DOUGLAS, AZ (http://www.douglasdispatch.com/news/article_3dc57804-788c-11e3-8cfe-0019bb2963f4.html), 1/01/14: No injuries were reported from a stray bullet that struck a home on 10th Street New Year’s Eve. According to Sgt. Jose Duarte of the Douglas Police Department officers were dispatched to the 1200 block of 10th around 2:20 p.m. New Year’s Day. During the investigation the home owner reported damage to his ceiling and the DPD officer determined that the cause of the damage was a stray bullet which had struck the roof and ended up inside the residence. Sgt. Duarte said it is believed the bullet had come from someone possibly firing shot or shots into the air and the bullet landed at this residence during the New Year’s Eve celebration the night before.
TANANA, AK (http://www.newsminer.com/news/local_news/internet-tv-lost-in-tanana-as-new-year-s-revelers/article_72cc4f80-79ab-11e3-b9da-001a4bcf6878.html), 1/01/14: A New Year's Eve tradition gone awry has left residents in the Interior community of Tanana without Internet service for more than a week after the town's fiber-optic cable was accidentally shot out by revelers. It's a New Year's tradition to shoot off guns at midnight in the village at the confluence of the Tanana and Yukon rivers, about 150 miles west of Fairbanks. This year, however, the shooters evidently weren't paying attention where they were pointing their guns when someone shot one of the main fiber-optic cable lines. "You can't fix stupid," is how Ralph Eller, owner of Yukon Telephone and Supervisions Cable TV, summed up the incident. The community was still without Internet service on Thursday while Eller waited for parts to arrive to repair the damaged line. Another 20 or so residents in the village have been without TV as a result of the damaged cable.
ORANGEBURG, SC (http://thetandd.com/news/man-injured-after-accidentally-shooting-self/article_04614482-7565-11e3-87cc-0019bb2963f4.html), 1/04/14: A Lexington man is undergoing medical treatment after a shotgun blast “grazed the bottom of his forearm,” Orangeburg Department of Public Safety Sgt. Jeff Mitchum said. Mitchum said ODPS received a call around 9:12 a.m. Saturday about the discharge of a firearm at the Orangeburg County Fairgrounds, where the 49th Annual Grand American Hunt and Show coonhound event was underway. The victim, who is about 30, “had a shotgun in his truck and was moving stuff around in his truck and a .20-gauge shotgun discharged” and grazed the victim’s forearm, Mitchum said. The accident occurred in the parking area. Around 10 a.m., Grand American announcer David McKee advised visitors at the event to “secure their firearms” if they were being kept in their vehicles.
MENDON, NY (http://www.13wham.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/accidental-shooting-pittsford-restaurant-8541.shtml), 1/04/14: A man in a Mendon restaurant accidentally shot himself and the person he was eating with on Saturday. The Monroe County Sheriff's department said a man was eating at the Cottage Hotel of Mendon at the corner of Routes 64 and 251 when his gun went off accidentally. He ended up shooting himself in the hand and ankle and also striking one of the people he was eating with in the ankle as well. So far, no charges are being filed. UPDATE: (http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/f6b395cbb8e04240bbe3bae7c4535de1/NY--Restaurant-Accidental-Shooting) The Monroe County Sheriff's Office tells local media outlets that John Cassata was showing his gun to a friend when the weapon went off. MORE: (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/local/2014/01/05/man-accidentally-shoots-himself-in-hand-/4333635/) Witnesses said the shot went off with a baby nearby and shattered an otherwise peaceful lunch. "All of a sudden we heard this explosion," said Ellen Smith, of Mendon. "I literally thought somebody had a firecracker. I didn't think it was a gun, but then I heard someone say, 'Oh my god, what did you do?' And I turned around and saw all this smoke and it was just silence. Everyone was stunned. This guy shot himself." Smith called 911. "This guy was so gray. He was bleeding pretty heavily," Smith said. "He kept saying, I've got a permit, I've got a permit."
RICHARDSON, TX (http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2014/01/police-man-robs-richardson-hair-salon-accidentally-shoots-himself.html/), 1/04/14: Police say a man who robbed a Richardson hair salon Saturday night accidentally shot himself while fleeing. The suspected robber arrived at a local hospital with a gunshot wound, soon after Venus Hair Salon reported the robbery, said Sgt. Kevin Perlich, Richardson police spokesman. Salon employees and clients told police they heard a shot fire as two robbers fled the salon. Police are investigating the injured man, but Perlich said “there’s a strong possibility that he was involved.” After the robbery, police say an injured suspect went to Medical City Dallas Hospital with a bullet wound to the leg. The man had surgery, but does not have a life-threatening injury.
PASCO, WA (http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2014/01/05/2760485/police-man-may-have-shot-himself.html), 1/04/14: A man who was taken to the hospital Saturday night with a gunshot wound to his leg may have accidentally shot himself, according to Pasco police. Police responded to a report of a gunshot victim at a motel on the 2800 block of N. 20th Ave. in Pasco around 9:40 p.m., Capt. Jim Raymond said. Officers found the man, who is in his 20s, with a gunshot wound to his leg. The man was taken to Kadlec Regional Medical Center in Richland, Raymond said. Police did not release the man’s name and his condition was not immediately available. A handgun was found at the scene, Raymond said. UPDATE: (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/jan/05/spokane-murder-suspect-hospitalized-gunshot/) Brandon Mellon is under supervision in a Portland hospital, where he is being treated for a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the leg prior to being taken into custody in Pasco, said Monique Cotton, spokeswoman for the Spokane Police Department. Mellon is in critical condition. Mellon is suspected of shooting and killing and man at an apartment in the 2200 block of North Astor Street. Detectives interviewed witnesses and determined Mellon was a person of interest in the homicide. They learned he was at a motel in Pasco and had accidentally shot himself in the leg.
SUMTER CO., AL (http://blog.al.com/tuscaloosa/2014/01/birmingham_area_man_dies_in_su.html), 1/04/14: A man from the Birmingham area was fatally shot in a hunting accident early Saturday, a Mississippi news station has reported. Sumter County Sheriff Tyrone Clark told WTOK that one man was shot on County Road 74 near Livingston. The victim's name is not being released pending notification of family, but officials said the man was from the Birmingham area. Sumter County authorities are investigating the shooting. UPDATE: (http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/01/hypothermia_cause_of_death_for.html) James Hunter Collier, 26, was found shot to death Saturday morning at a hunting camp off County Road 74 near Livingston. Preliminary reports indicate Collier's death was accidental and from a stray bullet, Clark said. Collier was a graduate of Briarwood High School and Auburn University. Collier's brother-in-law found him dead between 10:30 a.m. and 11 a.m. Saturday. He was sitting in a chair in a shooting house and had been shot in the hip area. The sheriff confirmed there was a bullet hole in the shooting house, and in the chair. The sheriff said they have interviewed several hunters who were in the area at the time of the shooting. They also have inspected the weapons of those hunters, he said. They were awaiting to the retrieval of the bullet from Collier's body to determine its caliber.
ROGERSVILLE, TN (http://www.timesnews.net/article/9071694/woman-recovering-from-accidental-gunshot-to-stomach), 1/04/14: A Hawkins County woman who told police she shot herself in the stomach while cleaning her gun Saturday afternoon was listed in good condition Monday at the Holston Valley Medical Center. Around 3:24 p.m. Saturday police and EMS were dispatched to an accidental shooting report at the home of Vernie Regina Lucas, 41, 6424 Rt. 66, located north of Rogersville. Upon her arrival responding Hawkins County Sheriff’s Office Deputy Reba Matthews reportedly found Lucas laying on the bathroom floor with what appeared to be an abdominal gunshot wound. Lucas stated that she was cleaning a .22 caliber H&R revolver when her thumb slipped off the hammer, and the gun discharged, shooting her in the stomach. “Mrs. Lucas stated she thought it was a five shot instead of a six shot, and had one in the chamber,” Matthews stated in her report. HCSO Detective Marc Bass told the Times-News Monday there is no reason to believe Lucas’s gunshot wound was anything but self-inflicted. Lucas was transported to the HVMC where she underwent surgery. “She had to have part of her intestine removed, and the bullet hit her spleen,” Bass said. “The bullet bounced around and hit two or three different places.” Bass added, “It was an older revolver. Her story was that she was fixing to clean it, and she squirted some cleaner on the hammer. The barrel was right up against her stomach. When she was holding the hammer her finger slipped off because of all the stuff on it, and it went off.”
PHILADELPHIA, PA (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Police-Man-accidentally-shot-girlfriend-in-head.html), 1/04/13: A Frankford man’s “mistake” has left his live-in girlfriend cliniging to life, police said today. When officers responding to reports of gunfire arrived at the scene, on Unity Street near Leiper, Saturday about 3:38 a.m., they found a 26-year-old woman lying in bed with a gunshot wound to her forehead. Roger Morrison, 36, who was home when police arrived, told the officers that he was the woman’s boyfriend and that he accidentally shot her. She was taken to Albert Einstein Medical Center in critical condition, where she remained today. Morrison was arrested, and has been charged with attempted murder and related offenses.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/13/1267203/-The-KY-legislator-who-fired-her-gun-in-the-state-capitol-isn-t-even-our-craziest-story-GunFAIL-LII

gun fellators as a group, perennial candidates for the Darwin Award. :lol

[boutons_deux]

NORTH BERGEN, NJ (http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2014/01/north_bergen_man_charged_with_filing_false_report_ after_shooting_himself.html), 1/04/14: A North Bergen man who told police that he was shot Saturday has been charged with falsifying a police report and two weapons offenses after he recanted his story, North Bergen police said. Christopher Velez, 33, has been charged with unlawful possession of a weapon and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose, police said. He was released on his own recognizance. Police from West New York and North Bergen responded to a call that a man was shot in his left finger and thigh, and in the area of 52nd Street and Kennedy Boulevard, reports said. West New York police recovered a firearm from an apartment building hallway window sill and Velez told them he was shot, reports said. But during the course of being interviewed, Velez recanted his story, telling police he found the Browning Arms small caliber handgun in the snow at 51st Street and Kennedy Boulevard. He also told police he went to a friend's house in North Bergen and was handling the gun when he accidentally shot himself, police said. North Bergen police said the handgun has not been reported stolen.
PINE HILLS, FL (http://mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2014/1/10/arrest_made_in_case_.html), 1/04/14: When 15-year-old Onardo Bent was critically injured last Saturday morning when he was shot, police originally said the shooting happened while he was riding his bike to his uncle’s house in Pine Hills. But investigators said that story was made up. They said the uncle, Dickale Cothell, was the one who shot his nephew, and then tried to cover it all up. “He came out, was handling the firearm, the teen was there in the living room area when the round went off, he was struck, and went down immediately,” said Capt. Angelo Nieves with the Orange County Sheriff’s Office. Bent was unconscious at the hospital for days, unable to tell anyone what really happened. But investigators said Thursday night he came to, and told deputies that it was his uncle who accidentally shot him. Cothell said nothing as he was taken into custody Friday night. But investigators said the 28-year-old admits to police he shot his nephew, but that it was an accident as he was handling his gun. He said he tried to cover the whole thing up, and convince his girlfriend and other people at the home to help him cover it up, because he was on probation and afraid of what could happen.
SIOUX FALLS, SD (http://kelo.com/news/articles/2014/jan/06/sioux-falls-woman-suffers-gunshot-wound/), 1/04/14: Police say a Sioux Falls woman’s story of how she was shot in the leg Saturday night is murky. Officer Sam Clemens says the 21-year-old victim told investigators she was accidentally shot by a man who got into her car brandishing a handgun. She says she was trying to put her car into gear and drive away. She claims the suspect reached over to stop her and when he did the gun fired. Clemens says the man fled the scene and the woman went to the hospital. Clemens says the she’s being uncooperative. He says another story from the woman’s boyfriend doesn’t match hers.
CARLISLE, PA (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/01/boyfriend_accidentally_shoots.html), 1/05/14: North Middleton Township police are investigating an accidental shooting in which a man shot his girlfriend in the arm. Township police are still determining whether charges will be filed against Robert Hostler, who shot Serina Howe in her right arm on Sunday night. Police responded to the Carlisle Regional Medical Center for a report of a gunshot victim. That’s where they found Howe, whose wound was not life threatening, police said. She was later transferred to the Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center for additional treatment. The shooting occurred Sunday around 11:30 p.m. at a home in the 2100 block of Waggoners Gap Road. Police said both Hostler and Howe are in their 20s.
EVERGREEN, MT (http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/law_roundup/article_20b55028-7732-11e3-ab56-001a4bcf887a.html), 1/05/14: The Flathead County Sheriff’s Office investigated after getting a report Sunday at 8 a.m. about a man being dropped at the Kalispell Regional Medical Center emergency room with a gunshot wound to his leg. “This was from all appearances an accidental gunshot wound that occurred when a person was playing with a revolver,” Undersheriff Dave Lieb said of the incident, which occurred somewhere in Evergreen.
FORT WALTON BEACH, FL (http://www.nwfdailynews.com/local/officials-reveal-new-details-in-santa-rosa-sound-hunting-accident-1.258506), 1/05/14: Officials say that no charges will likely be filed in a Sunday shooting accident that left one man with injuries to the head. Emergency responders were called at about 3 p.m. after 21-year-old Sean Michael Tolar’s head was grazed by bird shot, according to Stan Kirkland, spokesman with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The Mary Esther man was with four other friends on Spectre Island, one of several small “spoil islands” in Santa Rosa Sound, according to dispatch records. The five men had taken a boat to the island and had set up decoys when the accident occurred. Kirkland said the five friends were standing close when one of the men, 30-year-old Travis Raymond Julius, swung to shoot at a duck. His ammunition grazed the side of Tolar’s head. Tolar was alert and conscious when he was taken to Sacred Heart Hospital in Pensacola for his injuries. He was released Monday.
METARIE, LA (http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/01/metairie_woman_booked_with_sho.html), 1/05/14: A woman was arrested and booked with aggravated battery after authorities say she shot her boyfriend in their Metairie apartment. Evelyn Avelar, 19, told investigators she accidentally shot her 37-year-old boyfriend on Sunday (Jan. 5) while moving a gun she said belonged to him, according to Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office incident and arrest reports. The man was in stable condition after surgery to treat a gunshot wound to his chest, the report said. Avelar called 911 on Sunday about 5:25 p.m. to report the shooting at their apartment, 2804 Independence St., Metairie. Deputies arrived and found Avelar's boyfriend lying in bed with a wound to the left side of his chest, the report said. Avelar told investigators the gun discharged as she was moving the .22-caliber pistol from a dresser drawer to another location. She said she didn't think the gun was loaded because there was no magazine, the report said. Avelar told investigators she pulled the trigger and the bullet struck her boyfriend. Avelar said she was standing 4 feet away from the man when she fired the gun. But the deputy noted a gunpowder burn on the victim's chest, which indicates a "close-range contact," the incident report said. Avelar could not explain why she was moving the gun, and she insisted the shooting was accidental, the report said.
VIRGINIA BEACH, VA (http://wtkr.com/2014/01/06/accidental-shooting-in-virginia-beach/), 1/06/14: Police are investigating a shooting this morning in Virginia Beach. It happened on Saddlebrook Court. Police say the homeowner accidentally shot himself around 6 a.m. this morning. Police say the homeowner thought someone was breaking into his home. He went looking for who he thought was an intruder – when his gun accidentally went off.
MUNFORD, TN (http://www.wmctv.com/story/24379136/woman-dies-after-tipton-co-shooting), 1/06/14: Tipton County authorities have released more details about the shooting death of a woman in Munford, Tennessee on Monday evening. Tipton County Sheriff's deputies made the scene of a 911 call of an accidental shooting around 6 p.m. on Monday in Munford, Tenn. Deputies arrived in the 1000 block of Appleberry Road and found 26-year-old Laura Ann Rains suffering from a gunshot wound. According to a release from the sheriff's office, Laura Rains had been accidentally shot by her husband of three years, 25-year-old William Christopher "Chris" Rains. Chris told deputies that his wife was handing him a pistol, when it went off, hitting Laura in the head. She was airlifted to the MED, where she later died from her injury.
BEULAH, AL (http://www.oanow.com/news/crime_courts/article_ff0d9366-772e-11e3-9ca0-0019bb30f31a.html), 1/06/14: Deputies with the Lee County Sheriff’s Office responded to a Beulah home where a man had accidently shot himself in the chest with a pistol. Sheriff Jay Jones said that at 3:49 p.m., deputies received a call from a 47-year-old man who claimed he had been shot in the chest with his .25-caliber handgun. “He said it was an accident and that he was cleaning his gun when it went off,” Jones said. “That is what he had indicated to us.” Jones said deputies and volunteers with the Beulah Fire and Rescue arrived at the man’s residence in the 1100 block of Lee Road 270, where he was still responsive. Jones said he believes the man was taken to East Alabama Medical Center for treatment. The man’s condition was not known Monday night. “At this point,” it doesn’t appear that foul play was a factor,” Jones said.
FRANKFORT, KY (http://www.whas11.com/news/Ky-state-representatives-gun-accidently-fires-in-Capitol-building-239271511.html), 1/07/14: A Kentucky state representative accidentally fired her semi-automatic handgun Tuesday night in the Capitol annex office. That incident happened just before the State of the State address delivered by Governor Steve Beshear. Representative Leslie Combs (D-Pikeville) says she was unloading the gun according to safety procedure when it accidentally fired. The bullet struck the floor and ricocheted into a bookcase. Representative Jeff Greer was in the room at the time of the incident and was not hurt. When asked by reporters Wednesday to see where the gun was discharged, Combs declined and said she was putting the gun away because "I don't want to use it anymore." "I thought it was totally clear," Combs said Wednesday. "I am a gun owner. It happens." Combs added no one was in harms way.
FRESNO, CA (http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/01/08/3703210/sawed-off-shotgun-goes-off-wounding.html), 1/07/14: A 28-year-old man wounded himself in the hand and his son in the leg when a sawed-off shotgun discharged accidentally in east-central Fresno, according to police. Sgt. Rudy Tafoya said Cruz Venegas of Fresno was sitting in a car in the 1600 block of North Maple about 4:45 p.m. with a 17-year-old woman. Venegas' sons, 5 and 6, were in the back seat. Tafoya said that when Venegas and the woman began arguing, he reached back for the shotgun and it fired, wounding him in the left hand and one of his sons in the leg. Venegas' injuries were serious but those of the boy were minor. Officers found methamphetamine and marijuana in the car, Tafoya said. Venegas faces drug and weapon charges.
GLENDALE, CA (http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2014-01-10/news/tn-gnp-me-tujunga-man-faces-attempted-murder-carjacking-charges-20140110_1_attempted-murder-charges-gang-member-toonerville), 1/07/14: Prosecutors charged a reputed gang member Friday with trying to kill two Glendale men during a brazen carjacking and separate shootings earlier this week. Manuel Jesus Rodriguez, 28, of Tujunga faces two felony counts of attempted murder as well as a charge for carjacking in one of the incidents and a count of assaulting a man with a firearm in the other, according to Los Angeles County Superior Court records. The men were not wounded during the incidents. Rodriguez was arrested on Tuesday after he carjacked a Toyota Camry from a 37-year-old Glendale man at about 10 p.m. in the 100 block of Sinclair Avenue. Rodriguez fired at least two shots at the man and then fled in his car, police said. Rodriguez was reportedly driving on the northbound Glendale (2) Freeway in the stolen Toyota, but crashed and tried to flee the scene. A Good Samaritan was also driving on the 2 Freeway and stopped to ask Rodriguez if he was hurt. Rodriguez reportedly fired three rounds toward the 42-year-old Glendale man, police said. The rounds struck the man's car. Rodriguez continued running and jumped over a chain-link fence onto Stancrest Avenue. At some point, Rodriguez accidentally shot his left foot, police said.
ROCHESTER, NH (http://www.wmur.com/news/nh-news/rochester-man-fires-gun-shoots-neighbor-in-head/-/9857858/23825320/-/mug21b/-/index.html?absolute=true&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=wmur9#mid=17676140), 1/07/14: A Rochester man was struck in the top of the head by a bullet on Tuesday night, but was not injured. Police said Corey Field, 25, of 16 Leonard St., fired a gun from his bedroom. The bullet traveled across the street, through a closed window and through two walls before striking the head of 20-year-old Josh DeMeritt. "It didn't hurt at all, DeMeritt said. DeMeritt was sitting on a bed at a friend's house playing a computer game when the bullet hit him. "The next thing I know, I just have some plaster flying off the wall at me," he said. "I didn't realize it was a bullet, but it hit me right off the top of the head." DeMeritt said he had no idea what happened. "At first, I was really confused, and I was like, 'Why would somebody throw something into the room?' and I looked at the wall, and I was like, 'That's not good,'" he said. Field faces a charge of reckless conduct for discharging a firearm. Donna Stuart, the mother of DeMeritt's friend, said the bullet cut a path through her apartment. "It went through all this and broke this, went through the curtain and made a hole," she said. "It shot straight across the room to where that stocking is right there." DeMeritt and Stuart said they think the bullet was deflected by a stud in the wall, which slowed it enough to not hurt him. DeMeritt said he doesn't know Field, but he has some advice for him. "I would go to a weapons safety class if I was him," DeMeritt said. Field is also facing a charge of falsifying physical evidence. Police said he tried to hide the gun in a snow bank. In court, Field asked if he could apologize to DeMeritt, but he was ordered to have no contact with him. Field said the gun fired accidentally while he was trying to clean it.
WISCASSET, ME (http://bangordailynews.com/2014/01/08/news/midcoast/wiscasset-man-in-surgery-after-telling-police-he-accidentally-shot-himself-early-wednesday/), 1/08/14: A 49-year-old Wiscasset man who told police he accidentally shot himself early Wednesday morning was taken by LifeFlight of Maine helicopter to Central Maine Medical Center in Lewiston, where he was in surgery later Wednesday. Daniel Reed, 49, was seated in a recliner in the living room of his Gardiner Road home when Wiscasset police, fire and ambulance personnel arrived at approximately 2:35 a.m. Wednesday, Wiscasset Police Chief Troy Cline said in a release. Reed told police that he had accidentally fired a .22 caliber TALA semiautomatic pistol and wounded himself while “messing around” with it. Police said the round entered the left side of Reed’s chest just beneath his breast bone, and exited through his back. After being transported to CMMC by LifeFlight, he was in surgery late Wednesday morning. Police said the gun was secured and held for safekeeping.
MOOREFIELD TOWNSHIP, OH (http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/crime-law/brother-accidentally-shoots-brother-clark-county/ncgxb/), 1/08/14: An 18-year-old man was injured after his brother may have accidentally shot him with a handgun Wednesday night in Clark County. Jacob Hamm, 22, was opening a safe to remove the firearm when it accidentally discharged, he told deputies during an interview. The gunfire hit Hamm's brother in the abdomen and arm. Investigators responded to the residence in the 6900 block of Fieldbrook Road around 5:30 p.m. after receiving a 911 call from someone requesting an ambulance, deputies said. The caller disconnected from dispatchers after requesting the ambulance. Medics initially removed the victim to Springfield Regional Medical Center, but he was later transported to Miami Valley Hospital for treatment. The 18-year-old's injuries were not believed to be life threatening, according to deputies.
HAWTHORNE, CA (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9386977), 1/08/14: A search is underway for an armed robber who shot the owner of a small market in Hawthorne and then reportedly apologized. According to detectives, the suspect walked into the packed El Bodeguero Market around 5:30 p.m. He went right past an 8-year-old boy and then took out a gun. The man working at the register immediately put up his arms to comply. A woman, who only wanted to be identified as Tess, stood just steps away while her two kids looked on as well. "Once he got inside behind the counter, he glocked the gun [Ed. note: Is that what they're calling it these days? Glock's not gonna like that.] and said, 'I want the money,'" said Tess. The man behind the counter appeared to comply, kept his hands up and offered instructions on where to collect the money. Then all of a sudden, without warning, the gun went off. The victim was shot in the leg and fell to the ground. Tess said the suspect seemed startled. "He panicked and he dropped everything. He dropped the money he had in his hands," she said. "According to my 8-year-old, he kept saying, 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry.'" The man left with what's believed to be $500. The victim was hospitalized and later released.
JANESVILLE, WI (http://www.nwherald.com/2014/01/09/huntley-man-accidentally-shoots-sister-in-arm/akbt07n/), 1/08/14: Wisconsin police say a 20-year-old Huntley man accidentally shot his teenage sister in the arm, thinking she was an intruder. A Janesville Gazette report (http://bit.ly/... (http://bit.ly/1ksuhUL) ) says the man arrived in Janesville, Wis., on Monday to visit family. Police say he didn't know his 13-year-old sister was home Wednesday afternoon. She had just gotten out of bed and he could hear movement in her room, and he figured someone was trying to break into the house through her bedroom window. He got his father's 9 mm handgun and fired through the bedroom door. The bullet hit the girl's right triceps and also caused a flesh wound on her upper body. Deputy police Chief Dan Davis says he plans to recommend a felony charge of recklessly endangering safety.
GRAND FORKS, ND (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/281945/), 1/08/14: A Grand Forks man accidentally shot in Grand Forks Wednesday has died, according to Grand Forks police. Adam Denevan, 24, was handling a handgun when it fired, police said. The shooting appears to be an accident, police said, but there has been no official determination of the manner of death, and the incident is under investigation.

[boutons_deux]

CHICAGO, IL (http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140111/south-shore-above-79th/argument-over-whether-gun-would-fire-ended-with-mans-death-police-say), 1/08/14: A South Shore woman shot her brother in the eye during an argument about whether his gun could fire, prosecutors said Saturday. Joeann Smith, 52, appeared in bond court Saturday afternoon in connection with a shooting earlier this week that left her older brother, Willie Smith, brain dead. She was charged with felony reckless discharge of a firearm charge. Prosecutors said Willie Smith, 59, came over to his sister's apartment in the 1700 block of East 72nd Street on Wednesday. The two began drinking, and Smith pulled out a .22-caliber revolver from the bedroom. Willie Smith said the revolver was too old to work as he and his sister took turns handling the gun. At one point, Willie Smith handed the gun to his sister, and it went off while her finger was on the trigger, Joeann Smith later told police, according to court documents. The shot went through Willie Smith's right eye and lodged in his brain, according to court documents. Joeann Smith called the police about 7 p.m., and when officers arrived at the apartment, they found the 59-year-old man "laying on the living room floor face down and breathing slowly," according to police reports. Smith told police she had shot her brother when "they had been playing with a gun and it had accidentally gone off." Willie Smith was rushed in critical condition to Northwestern Memorial Hospital, where doctors found the bullet had left Smith brain dead.
RICHMOND, VA (http://www.nbc12.com/story/24405344/corrections-officer-injured-in-accidental-shooting-near-vcu-medical-center), 1/09/14: A Virginia Department of Corrections officer accidentally shot himself in a parking lot near VCU Medical Center Thursday morning. The gun accidentally went off around 8 a.m. Thursday injuring the officer, according to VCU Police. The officer was taken to VCU Medical Center. Police say there was no threat to public safety. UPDATE: (http://wtvr.com/2014/01/09/officer-transporting-inmate-accidentally-shoots-fellow-officer/) Richmond police said two state corrections officers were transporting an inmate when one of their guns accidentally went off and the other officer was wounded.
BRANDYWINE, MD (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/1-Dead-in-Brandywine-Md-Shooting-239400861.html), 1/09/13: Prince George's County police said an accidental shooting led to the death of a man in Brandywine, Md., Thursday morning. Officers were called to a home in the 18700 block of Croom Road at 1:35 a.m. Thursday for a report of a shooting. When they arrived at the scene, they found the victim suffering from a gunshot wound to the body. He was pronounced dead at the scene. According to a preliminary investigation, someone accidentally shot the man. Police are speaking with friends and family of the victim who were in the home at the time to piece together what happened. No charges have been filed at this time. The shooter and the victim have not been identified. The scene is located in a rural area, with the home sitting at the end of a long driveway off the main roadway. A neighbor told News4's Megan McGrath that she often hears gunshots in area, but she didn't hear anything early Thursday morning. She said officers she spoke with told her everything was OK and that she and her family were safe. UPDATE: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/man-suffers-gunshot-wound-and-dies-in-a-home-in-prince-georges-county/2014/01/09/4088a7b6-791b-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394) A Prince George’s man was killed when a rifle accidentally went off as the group he was with played with the gun in a Brandywine home Thursday, authorities say. The incident occurred at about 1:30 a.m., when police were called to a home in the 18700 block of Croom Road for a report of a shooting. When police arrived and entered the home, they found Errick Lamar Pratt, 23, dead with a gunshot wound to the head, Prince George’s police spokeswoman Julie Parker said. “The preliminary investigation tells us that there was a group of five people — three men and two women — hanging out at the home and playing with a gun and the gun went off,” Parker said.
HOUSTON, TX (http://www.khou.com/news/local/Passenger-injured-after-other-passengers-gun-goes-off-at-Greyhound-bus-station-239444241.html), 1/09/14: Houston police say a man was able to sneak a gun past a security checkpoint at the Greyhound bus station in downtown Thursday morning. The gun accidentally went off, shooting the ground. The bullet fragments hit another passenger, causing minor injuries. A company spokesman says Greyhound does not allow weapons on its busses. Security at the station is supposed to check passengers and their luggage with a handheld metal detector. “He made it through the checkpoint,” said Orlando Gomez with the Houston Police Department. “I'm not sure how he got that weapon through.” The man with the gun was arrested and police said they also found drugs on him. “That's pretty dangerous, you know what I'm saying,” said fellow passenger Luis Rodriguez. “That's a breach of security right there. They should double check everything -- especially with all that terrorism going around right now.” A Greyhound spokesman says the company is cooperating police and investigating to see how the weapon made it through security.
COLUMBIA CO., FL (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/article/341074/3/Man-shot-in-the-chest-when-dropping-a-gun), 1/09/14: A 30-year-old man accidentally shot himself in the chest in Columbia County Thursday morning. According to a Columbia County Sheriff's Office press release, the gun was leaning against the front door of a residence in the 11800 block of SE CR-245. The homeowner, Patricia Barber, said the 22 caliber rifle was placed there to protect her chickens from a fox. Her son, Brian Wayne Ward, went to move the gun at about 11:45 a.m. when it dropped and discharged because the safety was off. The bullet hit the right side of his chest and exited through his right shoulder.
INDIANAPOLIS, IN (http://fox59.com/2014/01/11/13-year-old-hit-by-stray-bullet-on-north-side/#axzz2q8K8OLnK), 1/10/14: A 13-year-old girl was grazed on the side of her head by a stray bullet late Friday night in the 29 hundred block of North New Jersey Street. She was taken to Methodist Hospital, but then around 6:45 a.m. Saturday was transferred to Riley Hospital for Children. The teen told IMPD that she was using her laptop in the front room of her home when she was shot. No further information, including the condition of the girl, is available at this time.
CHRISTIANA, TN (http://www.wsmv.com/story/24420843/four-escape-injury-after-gunshots-ring-out-in-rural-rutherford-county), exact date unknown: It's not uncommon to hear gunshots in parts of rural Rutherford County, but some residents in Christiana say bullets from someone shooting target practice came awfully close, even hitting a nearby home. Four people in the area escaped injury, including college student Hailey McWhorter, who was taking her neighbor's mail next door when the family's horses started going wild. "They looked like they were going to jump over the fence, and I said, 'Whoa,'" McWhorter said. She said bullets then came whizzing by. "It just went flying over my head, so I just ducked down," she said. "I didn't know what else to do because if they start shooting, I was like, 'I might get shot.'" One bullet struck a double-wide mobile home on Wayside Road and penetrated the bathroom wall, landing in a tub often used by a six-year-old girl. "If my renter's daughter had been in the bathtub, it would have killed her," Jeffrey McWhorter said. Rutherford County Sheriff's deputies were called to investigate. They believe the gunshots were coming from a farm on Sledge Road in Christiana about 650 yards away. Two people, Michelle Baker and Troy Barrett, were cutting trees nearby and also reported bullets flying over their heads. The area where the target practice was taking place is surrounded by a thicket of trees, huge rock and an old trailer. James Phillips, the man accused of shooting, said there is no way a bullet from the gun he was shooting could travel so far. "I was shooting into the pit at a downward position. There is no way a 9mm could go through that big ole thicket, through that thicket and hit someone's home," Phillips said. Phillips said he collects guns and is a registered permit holder. He does security work and said he is a bounty hunter.
CORPUS CHRISTI, TX (http://www.kristv.com/mobile/news/gang-unit-investigates-shooting/), 1/10/14: CCPD's Gang Unit was called out to a shooting late Friday night, but it turns out the person who was shot told officers he shot himself. The call, on Melissa Lane originally came in as a drive-by shooting, but was later downgraded to an accidental shooting. The incident is still under investigation, as police say the man involved is a convicted felon and might be charged with illegal possession of a firearm.
TYLER, TX (http://www.kltv.com/story/24425297/victim-of-tyler-shooting-says-it-was-an-accident), 1/10/14: A 25-year-old Tyler woman is recovering after being shot Friday night at her apartment. The victim's roommate says she and Armis Barnes were having a normal night at The Rose Valley Apartment Homes off of North Northwest Loop 323, in Tyler. Suddenly, the roommate said, Ke'avier, or KJ, Wilson-Hurd shot Barnes in the face. Wilson-Hurd was arrested at the scene. You might remember his name from a previous arrest. Wilson-Hurd was arrested last summer in connection with the PT Cole Park shooting in Tyler. [Ed. note: see here (http://www.americanownews.com/story/23158292/arrest-affidavits-obtained-for-three-involved-in-park-shooting).] Briana Young, 20, died in that shooting in front of her three-year-old son. Wilson-Hurd was charged with murder in the case but a grand jury didn't find enough evidence to pursue the charge in court, so Wilson-Hurd was released. Bonnie Jones was getting her two young children ready for bed in the apartment she shares with her cousin, Armis Barnes, when she heard a loud noise from the bedroom. "When she walked toward me her eye was messed up and he was yelling he's sorry it was an accident," Jones said, claiming Ke'avier Jarrod Wilson-Hurd had accidentally shot her cousin while the two were hanging out Friday night. "She said it was an accident and the next thing she knew turned to him and she saw fire," she continued. They say the two hadn't been fighting and were good friends. "And he kept saying it was an accident it was an accident I didn't mean to do it," she said. Family members of Armis Barnes said they think Wilson-Hurd shot Barnes accidentally.

[TSA]

At approximately 11 p.m., a resident responded to the sound of an intruder entering his home. A 21-year-old man had used a shovel to break through a back window and enter the residence. The resident retrieved a firearm and shot down a hallway toward the intruder. The intruder, who already had a long list of previous offenses, was struck and later pronounced dead. The homeowner was reportedly not injured during the home invasion. (The Post & Courier, Orangeburg, S.C., 5/27/13)

Two armed men entered a Houston auto shop and car dealership demanding money. The owner, Mack Agaybi, saw the suspects on his security monitor in his office before they entered, and left the office with his gun to confront them. A brief gunfight followed, and the suspects fled the scene. Mack donated a $1,000 reward to help locate the suspects. (Gunssavelives.net, Houston, Texas, 10/8/13)

Jessica Grayson was driving behind a pickup truck when the truck suddenly stopped in front of her, blocking her lane. A man exited the truck and approached Grayson's vehicle. He began beating on the window and grabbing the door handle in an attempt to get in. Jessica quickly pulled out her Colt .357 revolver. "…I pointed my gun at him and told him to step away from my car or I would shoot him," Grayson explained. The assailant immediately backed away from her vehicle and left. "You hear a lot of stories about guns being used in crime, but they prevent crime every day, too," Grayson said. "What if I hadn't had my gun that day?" (The Advertiser-Gleam, Danville, AL, 6/28/13)

A man attempted to rob a Dollar General store in Evansville, Ind., with what appeared to be a plastic-wrapped gun. Pastor Carl Sanders was approached by the robber and told to get on the ground, but Sanders pulled his own pistol and said, "No, you get on the ground." Police arrived and arrested the robber, and the pastor plans to visit him to help him get his life on track. (14news.com, Evansville, Ind., 10/20/13)


Store owner, Arturo Taveras, 69, was working at McCann's Liquors when a masked man entered, pulled a gun on him and demanded money. Taveras did not hesitate to draw his own firearm from his right hip and point it back at the would-be robber. When he saw Taveras' gun, the attempted robber fled the premises. It was last reported that police were reviewing surveillance video and searching for the attempted robber. (The Eagle-Tribune, Lawrence, MA, 6/4/13)

A Pennsylvania woman was saved by her current boyfriend, when an ex-boyfriend threatened her life. She had told her ex, who had a criminal record, to stay away. When he broke into her home in the early morning and pistol whipped her in the face, the woman's current boyfriend used his own firearm to shoot the ex in the chest, fatally wounding him. (Gunssavelives.net, 10/22/13)



While walking down the sidewalk, a military service member was assaulted by a man he did not know. As he was walking around 3 p.m., he was approached by a stranger, who proceeded to verbally assault him before physically striking him in the head. The attack was reportedly unprovoked. The service member, also a concealed-carry permit holder, pulled out his firearm detaining the assailant until police arrived and arrested him. (The Olympian, Olympia, WA, 5/31/13)

A man who authorities say was hallucinating and talking about zombies broke into an Orange County home where he was fatally shot by the homeowner. The couple awoke to hear the intruder screaming in their backyard and the wife called 911 as her husband confronted him. The intruder threatened the couple and broke into the home by shattering a rear sliding glass door. The husband then fatally shot the intruder. (Fresnobee.com, Yorba Linda, CA, 10/29/13)


A woman and her son were driving around 11:30 a.m. when a vehicle cut them off and abruptly stopped in front of them. A man exited the vehicle, pulled the woman from her car and held a knife to her throat. When the woman's son got out of the car to confront his mother's attacker, he was reportedly punched in the face. A passerby witnessed the attack and stopped to intervene with his .40-cal. handgun. When the suspect saw the firearm, he quickly returned to his vehicle and drove off. The good Samaritan who had stopped to help was able to get the suspect's license plate number, which later resulted in the attacker's arrest. He was charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature and assault and third degree battery. (WISTV.com, Richland County, SC, 6/5/13)

Four intruders entered a Virginia home armed and masked, ready to rob the victims. The homeowner pulled his firearm and hit an intruder, according to police. Others grabbed a second masked man and held him. Two of the intruders escaped. The residents were unharmed. The intruder who was shot was taken to the hospital and is expected to recover with charges pending. The second suspect was charged with robbery, use of a firearm in a felony, breaking and entering, and conspiracy to commit a felony. Police continue to search for the two who escaped. (PilotOnline.com, Portsmouth, VA, 10/3/13)

Michael Votruba had just arrived home from a long day at work when he spotted an animal scurrying across the yard as he exited his vehicle. Votruba was clearly able to identify the animal as a bobcat when it approached him growling. He drew the pistol he was carrying and took a few steps back. The bobcat lunged at him, attacking his leg. Votruba shook free and ran only a few steps before the bobcat jumped on his chest. Again, Votruba fought back throwing the cat to the ground and shooting twice. When the bobcat lunged at his chest yet again, Votruba fired several more shots, killing the animal. Votruba was not seriously injured during the attack, and immediately received the necessary rabies shots and an updated tetanus shot. (Telegram & Gazzette, Holden, MA, 6/20/13)

A Mississippi man was awoken by the sounds of his small dog alerting him to the presence of an intruder on the back porch. The homeowner grabbed his shotgun and stepped from his bedroom into the kitchen, according to the Lawrence County Sheriff. The intruder entered the back door only to meet a fatal shotgun blast that sent him back outside, still clutching his burglary tools. A pickup truck fled the scene, and deputies are seeking information that will lead to an arrest of the accomplice. (Lawrence County Press, Monticello, Miss., 9/25/13)


Two teens began knocking on the back door of a house where a 43-year-old woman was home alone. The woman grabbed her .38 revolver when the teens began to kick in the door. They reportedly entered her kitchen and charged toward her. The resident fired a single shot and one intruder fell to the floor before they both fled through the back door. Later a juvenile showed up at a local hospital with a gunshot wound to the arm. Both teens were arrested and charged with burglary. (Dayton Daily News, Dayton, OH, 6/26/13)

When a couple in Florida witnessed a group of robbers attempting to break into their home they acted quickly. The wife alerted her husband, who armed himself. The robbers ran, and knowing the local laws the husband simply shot at the ground to alert his neighbors of the fleeing intruders. A neighbor heard the shot, and the 44-year-old woman who happened to be a former professional boxer, tackled one of the men. Police later apprehended the other two suspects miles from the scene, and another two in the woods shortly after. All of the defendants were charged with burglary and theft, according to WESH-TV. (WESH.com, Oak Hill, Fla., 11/27/13)


Injuries sustained to Anthony Wilson's face, torso, arms and legs were severe, but he was last reported to be in good condition after he was attacked by two dogs in his neighborhood. The dogs escaped from a yard early one afternoon and attacked 77-year-old Wilson. He tried to seek refuge under a pickup truck with little success. The dogs snapped at his legs and continued to bite and claw him, trying to drag him from the protection of the vehicle. A neighbor heard Wilson's cries for help and responded quickly when he saw the dogs attacking. The neighbor retrieved a firearm and attempted to scare the dogs away. But when the dogs then turned their attention to the neighbor, he fired, killing both animals. (The Times-Tribune, Dunmore, PA, 7/3/13)

An intruder entered a Ville Platte home with a gun at around 1 a.m. Sunday, intending to rob the owners. The homeowner said her kids were in bed when the intruder entered the front door wearing a black ski mask. He walked to the back of the house and confronted a friend of the homeowner, putting a gun to his head and demanding money. The friend refused, according to the homeowner, and the intruder attempted to fire the gun but it jammed and a fight broke out. Local police found the intruder fatally wounded on the kitchen floor, apparently killed by his own handgun. (DailyWorld.com, Ville Platte, La., 12/3/13)


Joseph Eisel, 51, was asleep with his wife around 3 a.m. when he woke to a 27-year-old man he did not know standing over his bed. Startled and fearful for his life, Eisel reached for the 9 mm pistol he keeps bedside. The intruder fled the room and entered the Eisels’ garage. Eisel followed him into the garage where the intruder fell to the floor. Eisel ordered the intruder to stay on the floor while his wife dialed 911. Eisel held the intruder at gunpoint until police arrived a short time later. The intruder allegedly entered the home through a broken basement window. Reportedly no one was hurt during the home invasion. “Everybody complains about guns,” Eisel said of the incident, “but I’m glad I have one.” (Butler Eagle, Cranberry Township, PA, 10/1/13)

After an argument occurred at a house party, one man was asked to leave. The 27-year-old man returned a short time later with a rifle and began firing shots outside the home. According to witnesses, the man then pointed the rifle at several people attending the party. A 39-year-old partygoer took action to stop what could have resulted in tragedy; he pulled out his own firearm and shot the man brandishing the rifle. The assailant was taken to a local hospital with life-threatening injuries. No other injuries were reported. (KPHO.com, Glendale, AZ, 10/20/13)


Jerry Brown, 63, was outside his cabin when he spotted a large black bear. The bear first headed away from Brown, but then turned toward him and attacked. As Brown tried to escape, his brother, Randy, retrieved a firearm and shot at the bear, causing it to run off. Brown suffered extensive injuries to his face, including the loss of his left eye. It was reported that Brown was in serious, but stable, condition and recovering from his injuries. (Grand Forks Herald, Shell Lake, WI, 6/20/13)

Cab driver Brian Paradise, 48, of Nashua, was taking Jarrod Brouillette, 25, from Nashua to Amherst when Brouillette allegedly bit the cabbie to avoid paying his fare, according to a dispatcher for SK Cabs in Nashua. Paradise has a concealed carry license and pulled out his handgun during the incident, holding Brouillette at bay until the police arrived. Amherst Police charged Brouillette with simple assault, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. (Nashua.Patch.com, Nashua, NH, 12/28/13)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Of course variables have been omitted, I just listed them in post #651. And :lol at your no comment on the amount of guns in circulation rising while gun related deaths declined. Your own graph shit on your argument from last year.

variables have been omitted from what exactly? I never claimed to have a comprehensive study. I never said that gun control was the sole cause. Try harder. What is at issue here is that you made an assumption that was the case. We keep talking about poor critical thinking skills on your part. An exclusionary claim like 'only the Brady Bill' would be denoted should be denoted explicitly. Your foolishness inserted that on your own. On the contrary, post 651 makes no mention of the Brady Bill. I would not make assumptions that it commented on that without basis.

Btw post 651 cites gun control as a cause with


Aggressive policing focused on young people with guns probably also contributed to the violent crime drop

Post 652 gives the authors explanation for no discernible statistical basis by saying


Cook said the real problem is the law's "gaping barn door" for unregulated sales, mainly at gun shows, but no one knows how many guns are bought with false IDs or exchanged privately, to say nothing of those being stolen.

Do you think this undermines your position? It's obvious that both authors advocated gun control.

As for your argument about the sheer volume of guns, you are building quite the strawman. I, and your study's comment on youth gun possession, advocate specific targeting of dangerous weapons and people. I said that a ban would only be meaningful if you banned semiautomatic weapon because of loopholes. Most people agree that criminals and the mentally ill need to be prohibited.

Your poor memory, reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are shameful.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here's an international graph

https://twitter.com/Just_a_Texan/status/419115998793330688/photo/1

You have to love how the graph paints the homicide rates in the US and Europe as being the same. The US has rate 5+ times higher when you compare 1st world societies. You also have to love conflating US society with the developing world.

[TSA]

Your canned argument is that it was trending downward when the law when into effect. The downward trend began in the years prior to that in the aftermath of the LA riots and law enforcement surge when the law wsa being negotiated in congress. Even still once the law went into effect the rate of decrease doubled.

Is your dumbass really arguing against the Brady Bill?

you ignore the death rate response to the other gun control laws. It's pretty evident that gun control laws effect society in the manner that they are designed to do.




Data shows a slow gradual decline in gun homicides from 1993 to the present, a trend that started before the Brady Bill passed, but figures from both the control and treatment states track virtually identically. "Control and treatment states had the same gun homicide rates before and after the Brady law passed," Cook said. "It made no discernable difference. There is no statistically significant effect."

[boutons_deux]

‘Doomsday Prepper’ arrested on weapons charges after deputies watch reality show
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Tyler-Smith-Doomsday-Prepper.png

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/16/doomsday-prepper-arrested-on-weapons-charges-after-deputies-watch-reality-show/

[TSA]

‘Doomsday Prepper’ arrested on weapons charges after deputies watch reality show
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Tyler-Smith-Doomsday-Prepper.png

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/16/doomsday-prepper-arrested-on-weapons-charges-after-deputies-watch-reality-show/



MARAN!!!

REDNECK!!!

PREPPER!!!

BUBBA!!!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol the quote about the 'failure,' as the author couches it, is in my last post. what was his solution?


Cook said the real problem is the law's "gaping barn door" for unregulated sales, mainly at gun shows, but no one knows how many guns are bought with false IDs or exchanged privately, to say nothing of those being stolen.

Ahhh yes. No loop holes. He is specifically talking about the background check requirements as that is what he controlled for.

I just want to be clear: you are arguing against background checks and the other tenants of the Brady Bill right?

[spurraider21]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/17/gunman-bursts-into-dollar-store-and-threatens-to-kill-everyone-before-police-could-even-respond-he-was-dead/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=ShareButtons

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/17/gunman-bursts-into-dollar-store-and-threatens-to-kill-everyone-before-police-could-even-respond-he-was-dead/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=ShareButtonsWas someone texting?

[spurraider21]

Was someone texting?
what is the purpose of your question?

[ChumpDumper]

what is the purpose of your question?What is the purpose of your link?

[spurraider21]

What is the purpose of your link?
it seemed relevant to the topic at hand, unlike your question.

so what is the relevance of somebody's alleged texting?

[ChumpDumper]

it seemed relevant to the topic at hand, unlike your question.

so what is the relevance of somebody's alleged texting?It's actually also relevant if you care to think about it just a little bit.

[ChumpDumper]

It's actually also relevant if you care to think about it just a little bit.Did you think about it?

[spurraider21]

i don't know if somebody was texting. make your point

[TeyshaBlue]

Guns dont kill people! People kill peoplewith guns.

[boutons_deux]

People Are More Likely To Kill When They Have A Gun

Person with gun gets angry, loses control and shoots an unarmed person. It’s a more common occurrence than gun advocates care to admit.

And it contradicts several of the gun lobby’s central arguments because it demonstrates that the proximity of firearms can change circumstances. It undermines that dumb and overused cliché, “Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.” That may be true, but people are much more apt to kill when they have a gun.

You know how the gun lobby always insists that the antidote to gun violence is to allow more properly trained citizens to carry guns everywhere — inside nightclubs and schools and churches? Well, Reeves could hardly be better trained in the use of firearms. He’s a retired Tampa police captain and a former security officer for Busch Gardens.

The Violence Policy Center (VPC) notes that 554 other people have been killed since May 2007 by people licensed to carry concealed weapons in incidents that did not involve self-defense.

“The examples we have collected in our Concealed Carry Killers database show that with alarming regularity, individuals licensed to carry concealed weapons instigate fatal shootings that have nothing to do with self-defense,” said VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand in a statement on the center’s website.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/people-are-more-likely-to-kill-when-they-have-a-gun/

Guns don't kill people, people with guns (and without dicks) kill people.

[TSA]

People Are More Likely To Kill When They Have A Gun

Person with gun gets angry, loses control and shoots an unarmed person. It’s a more common occurrence than gun advocates care to admit.

And it contradicts several of the gun lobby’s central arguments because it demonstrates that the proximity of firearms can change circumstances. It undermines that dumb and overused cliché, “Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.” That may be true, but people are much more apt to kill when they have a gun.

You know how the gun lobby always insists that the antidote to gun violence is to allow more properly trained citizens to carry guns everywhere — inside nightclubs and schools and churches? Well, Reeves could hardly be better trained in the use of firearms. He’s a retired Tampa police captain and a former security officer for Busch Gardens.

The Violence Policy Center (VPC) notes that 554 other people have been killed since May 2007 by people licensed to carry concealed weapons in incidents that did not involve self-defense.

“The examples we have collected in our Concealed Carry Killers database show that with alarming regularity, individuals licensed to carry concealed weapons instigate fatal shootings that have nothing to do with self-defense,” said VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand in a statement on the center’s website.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/people-are-more-likely-to-kill-when-they-have-a-gun/

Guns don't kill people, people with guns (and without dicks) kill people.





:lmao boutons I'd advise you to read your own articles before posting them, especially if you're going to highlight key LIES in red. :lmao

"The VPC concludes their report by stating that these examples illustrate clearly that concealed carry laws are not good public policy because permit holders are dangerous. Furthermore, there is a clear implication that they are more dangerous than the general public.

Let’s take a closer look at the statistics to refute this wild inaccuracy. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, across the general public in the United States, there are an average of .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

Now … even if we concede all 51 deaths detailed in the VPC report as wrongful deaths, averaging them across the over 6 MILLION permit holders in the United States and taking into account the two year timeframe, we get an average of .00425 per 1,000 per year.

In other words, even if they are 100% correct in their wildly flawed report, they have simply proven that permit holders commit murders at a rate that is 1/10th of the general public."

:lol

[TSA]

http://www.examiner.com/article/lies-damn-lies-and-vpc-statistics

[TSA]

And :lmao at them counting suicides by permit holders to pad their stats.

[TSA]

:lol the quote about the 'failure,' as the author couches it, is in my last post. what was his solution?



Ahhh yes. No loop holes. He is specifically talking about the background check requirements as that is what he controlled for.

I just want to be clear: you are arguing against background checks and the other tenants of the Brady Bill right?

I've been very clear, seems you are having trouble keeping up.

[TSA]

Boutons it'd be wise to never, ever again post anything from the VPC.

Save what little credibility you have left.


VPC got raped.
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=265

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao boutons I'd advise you to read your own articles before posting them, especially if you're going to highlight key LIES in red. :lmao

You should look to yourself. Post 651 and 652 are clear examples of pulling a Darrin. Both called for and supported gun control. The first by stating the Brady Billl left too many loopholes and needed to be strengthened. The second by commenting on gun control programs that have worked in multiple cities.

That is my point. You make the typical fool's move of trying so hard to win a point that you miss the rest of what you are saying. It's a clear sign of sophistry.

Do you or do you not support the Brady Bill?

[boutons_deux]

one gun in the hands of a dickless, law enforcement professional gun fellator meant one wife and kid minus their husband and father.

zero guns in that theater would have been a zero husbandless, fatherless family.

more guns means more gun violence and deaths

otoh, a fantastic lesson here is not to throw popcorn, the target may be a (old white, probably enormously pot bellied, with wannabe-manly facial hair) mentally ill, sicko gun fellator.

Probably doesn't matter whether the popcorn buttered or not, salted or not, because (taxpayer subsidized, insured) popcorn is perceived as mortal threat to gun fellators.

[Splits]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25787934


Detroit four-year-old child accidentally shoots cousin

Police said they were investigating possible charges but did not see any "malicious intent"
A four-year-old US girl shot and killed her four-year-old cousin in what authorities have called a tragic and avoidable accident.


The children were playing at their grandfather's home in Detroit on Thursday afternoon when the girl found a loaded rifle under a bed.


The boy was shot once in the chest and was pronounced dead in hospital.


Police have said they are investigating whether to press charges. It was not immediately known who owned the gun.

[Blizzardwizard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25787934

Jeez, how many times has this happened in the last year or so?

Now surely you can't use the 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' phrase this time.

[TSA]

You should look to yourself. Post 651 and 652 are clear examples of pulling a Darrin. Both called for and supported gun control. The first by stating the Brady Billl left too many loopholes and needed to be strengthened. The second by commenting on gun control programs that have worked in multiple cities.

That is my point. You make the typical fool's move of trying so hard to win a point that you miss the rest of what you are saying. It's a clear sign of sophistry.

Do you or do you not support the Brady Bill?

Whether I support the Brady Bill or not has nothing to do with it's effectiveness, or lack thereof. Whether I support the Brady or not also has nothing to do with your misleading graph.

[TSA]

one gun in the hands of a dickless, law enforcement professional gun fellator meant one wife and kid minus their husband and father.

zero guns in that theater would have been a zero husbandless, fatherless family.

more guns means more gun violence and deaths

otoh, a fantastic lesson here is not to throw popcorn, the target may be a (old white, probably enormously pot bellied, with wannabe-manly facial hair) mentally ill, sicko gun fellator.

Probably doesn't matter whether the popcorn buttered or not, salted or not, because (taxpayer subsidized, insured) popcorn is perceived as mortal threat to gun fellators.

No comment on the VPC propaganda machine you pussy?

[TSA]

Jeez, how many times has this happened in the last year or so?

Now surely you can't use the 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' phrase this time.

Hey dipshit, that is exactly what happened, a person killed a person.

[boutons_deux]

Hey dipshit, that is exactly what happened, a person killed a person.

a child killed a child because a gun fellator left his cherished, adored dick-substitute unsecured.

[Th'Pusher]

Whether I support the Brady Bill or not has nothing to do with it's effectiveness, or lack thereof. Whether I support the Brady or not also has nothing to do with your misleading graph.
Why is it so difficult for you to state a distinct position?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm surprised this fact didn't kill the thread, but here it is again:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Politics/2010gundeathvsBradyscore_zps182e6cd5.png

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Politics/2010gundeathvsblacksandhispanics_zps54b1521c.png

[Th'Pusher]

I'm surprised this fact didn't kill the thread, but here it is again:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Politics/2010gundeathvsBradyscore_zps182e6cd5.png

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Politics/2010gundeathvsblacksandhispanics_zps54b1521c.png

What do you think a graph showing the relationship by state between poverty and gun murders would look like?

[Wild Cobra]

What do you think a graph showing the relationship by state between poverty and gun murders would look like?
Probably similar.

Do you have such a graph available?

My point is, gun laws have not effective trend.

[Th'Pusher]

Probably similar.

Do you have such a graph available?

My point is, gun laws have not effective trend.

Then Maybe we should focus on policy that reduces poverty? As much as someone like you may like it, it really wouldn't be prudent to create policy that would eliminate blacks and Latinos which, based on the graph you keep posting, seem to be at the root of the gun violence.

[TSA]

a child killed a child because a gun fellator left his cherished, adored dick-substitute unsecured.

I have no problem blaming the irresponsible parents.

Are we going to discuss the VPC or are you going to continue to avoid it?

[TSA]

Why is it so difficult for you to state a distinct position?

How does my position on the Brady bill have anything to do with the misleading graph fuzzy posted?

Fuzzy posted a graph to try and show the Brady bill caused the sharp drop in firearm related deaths. It's simply untrue.

[Th'Pusher]

How does my position on the Brady bill have anything to do with the misleading graph fuzzy posted?
It doesn't. But why is it so difficult for you to take a position? Aren't you the guy who berated CD for not publicly affirming his sexual preference?

[TSA]

It doesn't. But why is it so difficult for you to take a position? Aren't you the guy who berated CD for not publicly affirming his sexual preference?

If it doesn't than why do you care? I am not against background checks and I've said that many times on here.

Having gotten that out of the way, would you like to discuss the graph?

[Wild Cobra]

How does my position on the Brady bill have anything to do with the misleading graph fuzzy posted?

Fuzzy posted a graph to try and show the Brady bill caused the sharp drop in firearm related deaths. It's simply untrue.
Is anything Fuzzy posts, true?

[Wild Cobra]

Then Maybe we should focus on policy that reduces poverty? As much as someone like you may like it, it really wouldn't be prudent to create policy that would eliminate blacks and Latinos which, based on the graph you keep posting, seem to be at the root of the gun violence.
Poverty in general, follows responsibility. We now have families that pass on to their children the hatred of whites and a cycle of dependance on government money. You are really stupid if you think I want to eliminate minority populations. No matter what changes are attempted, as long as parents continue to teach their children that they are owed, that it's the white mans fault, this will continue.

[Th'Pusher]

Having gotten that out of the way, would you like to discuss the graph?
Not really. You're particularly emotional when it comes to guns and have proven to be incapable of having a rational discussion. I was just wondering why you were too much of a pussy to take a position on the Brady Bill.

Thanks!

[Th'Pusher]

Poverty in general, follows responsibility. We now have families that pass on to their children the hatred of whites and a cycle of dependance on government money. You are really stupid if you think I want to eliminate minority populations. No matter what changes are attempted, as long as parents continue to teach their children that they are owed, that it's the white mans fault, this will continue.

So what's the solution to the perceived problem you just stated. Is there any policy that can affect change and make those rotten minorities take responsibility for their lives?

[Wild Cobra]

So what's the solution to the perceived problem you just stated. Is there any policy that can affect change and make those rotten minorities take responsibility for their lives?
I don't know. I don't have a solution as to haw to make people take responsibility for their own well being.

Would you agree or disagree that in general, those in black communities are taught that white people are the cause of their problems?

[boutons_deux]

"Poverty in general, follows responsibility."

bullshit. The increase in inequality at both of the financial spectrum is totally due to govt policy.

govt policy of the 1930s created the middle class, and govt policy since 1975 has destroyed it.

[Wild Cobra]

"Poverty in general, follows responsibility."

bullshit. The increase in inequality at both of the financial spectrum is totally due to govt policy.

govt policy of the 1930s created the middle class, and govt policy since 1975 has destroyed it.
Government policies do play a role as to the supply of jobs for people to get. Still, in general, the more responsible people get the better jobs, and the less responsible get to fight over the leftovers.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Whether I support the Brady Bill or not has nothing to do with it's effectiveness, or lack thereof. Whether I support the Brady or not also has nothing to do with your misleading graph.

Your link stated that the Brady Bill's background checks were controlled for compared to states taht already required background checks and was found to not have a statistically significant decrease. It did see a decrease but it was not enough to say it was anything more than noise. He further stated that this was because of the loopholes for the law in the form of gun shows and he states more stringent measures are needed. You posted an article calling for more gun control, bravo, but that is not all. While it also does not surprise me, you have dumbed that down into, 'the Brady Bill doesn't work.'

First critical thinking exercise: are background checks the only part of the Brady Bill? Did the study control for any other variable?

No, it didn't and further, the graph spoke to 5 different changes in gun control laws and all 5 manifested in the expected shift in gun deaths. You have so far spoken to one tenant of one of the bills and think in a very WC way that it invalidates all 5 data points completely. All you have really done is shown that the background check portion of one of them does not seem to have an effect because of a specific loopholes. The conclusion of the author was NOT that background checks are ineffective. I did like how you linked something that says gun control in cities has had multiple studies show it to be effective.

You supporting the Brady Bill goes to show how much of sophist you are. It speaks to you and your veracity. You are too ignorant to understand that either apparently.

[Blizzardwizard]

Hey dipshit, that is exactly what happened, a person killed a person.

:wakeup

[boutons_deux]

"the more responsible people get the better jobs, and the less responsible get to fight over the leftovers."

bullshit. the old myth that everybody has equal opportunity to become wealthy.

socioeconomic mobility, iow, the poor upwards, is much reduced in the past 35 years.

"Old Europe", socialized democracies, often with public health insurance and free university, provides better socioeconomic mobility.

[boutons_deux]

People
Are
More
Likely
To
Kill
When
They
Have
A
Gun

[Wild Cobra]

People
Are
More
Likely
To
Kill
When
They
Have
A
Gun


Shouting doesn't make you less a fool...

Take guns away from those who are responsible, and the cr8iminals are less afraid to hurt others.

[Wild Cobra]

Someone else made a graph more detailed than mine. Looks as though violent crimes go up with stricter gun control laws:

http://www.pagunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/BradyViolentCrime.png (http://www.pagunblog.com/2014/01/19/how-effective-are-brady-lcpgv-policies/)

link embedded in pic

[boutons_deux]

"cr8iminals are less afraid to hurt others"

beyond your wishful thinking, any evidence.

My guess is that accidental gun deaths, spousal/partner gun murders, gun suicides far outnumber home invasion/self-defense killings.

[Wild Cobra]

"cr8iminals are less afraid to hurt others"

beyond your wishful thinking, any evidence.

My guess is that accidental gun deaths, spousal/partner gun murders, gun suicides far outnumber home invasion/self-defense killings.
Does "your guess" have any real world data to back it up?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Someone else made a graph more detailed than mine. Looks as though violent crimes go up with stricter gun control laws:

http://www.pagunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/BradyViolentCrime.png (http://www.pagunblog.com/2014/01/19/how-effective-are-brady-lcpgv-policies/)

link embedded in pic

When the values are both higher and lower as you progress it does NOT show correlation, you dumb motherfucker.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Does "your guess" have any real world data to back it up?

You were the one that asserted that guns make criminals afraid. Back it up or shut up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Someone else made a graph more detailed than mine. Looks as though violent crimes go up with stricter gun control laws:

http://www.pagunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/BradyViolentCrime.png (http://www.pagunblog.com/2014/01/19/how-effective-are-brady-lcpgv-policies/)

link embedded in pic

And ffs the graph is of violent crime. That isn't gun crime. Do I need to explain how violent crime doesn't necessitate a gun?

Further, it is from a site with the following as it's 'about us:'


Welcome to “Shall Not Be Questioned”, a blog about firearms, firearms public policy, and Second Amendment advocacy. While our blog covers happenings in the pro-Second Amendment community in the country as a whole, we have a Pennsylvania focus.

Your hosts, Sebastian and Bitter, are Second Amendment activists living in Southeast Pennsylvania, just north of the City of Philadelphia. Sebastian and Bitter are pen names. Bitter has a long history online as the founder and primary writer for an early gun blog called The Bitch Girls. In real life Bitter is an independent contractor, with a long history, both personal and professional, in the outdoor and sportsman’s communities. Sebastian is a computer professional.

Our interest in firearms stems from our interest in personal self-defense, and our involvement in the shooting sports. Both of us are competitive shooters. We both shoot Metallic Silhouette, I shoot CMP and high-power, and sometimes we’ll shoot the occasional round of Trap. Needless to say, we place a great deal of value in preserving the Second Amendment, as well as the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is how you show correlation:

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/03/striking-relationship-between-gun-safety-laws-and-firearm-deaths/4902/

http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2013/03/07/maplarge.jpg

Note the use of a map when displaying geographic information.

Further:

http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2013/03/07/chartlarge.jpg


States in the highest quartile of legislative strength (scores of ≥9) had a lower overall firearm fatality rate than those in the lowest quartile (scores of ≤2) (absolute rate difference, 6.64 deaths/100 000/y; age-adjusted incident rate ratio [IRR], 0.58; 95% CI, 0.37-0.92). Compared with the quartile of states with the fewest laws, the quartile with the most laws had a lower firearm suicide rate (absolute rate difference, 6.25 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.48-0.83) and a lower firearm homicide rate (absolute rate difference, 0.40 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.38-0.95).

[Wild Cobra]

When the values are both higher and lower as you progress it does NOT show correlation, you dumb motherfucker.
LOL...

You are the dumb motherfucker for assuming I read that much into it. I am showing there is no correlation with gun control laws lowering crime.

When will you stop being such a dumb ass?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Looks as though violent crimes go up with stricter gun control laws:


I am showing there is no correlation with gun control laws lowering crime.

You were saying?

[Wild Cobra]

This is how you show correlation:

<snip>
Who gives a fuck about accidental deaths as a reason to make gun laws stronger? I will make this point again, that car accidents kill even more people as accidents go. I don't see libtards wanting to impose stricter driving laws and licensing.

Murders and violent crimes are more important to show.

[Wild Cobra]

You were saying?
I said the second poorly. The contention is that increased gun laws lower crime. It does not. Your graph included all gun deaths, which includes accidental. How many of these accidents were criminal? Crime rates have less to do with if weapons are legal or not, and more to do with the culture diversity of the population. That said, making it harder for good citizens to protect themselves, means the criminals are less worried about getting shot themselves.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who gives a fuck about accidental deaths as a reason to make gun laws stronger? I will make this point again, that car accidents kill even more people as accidents go. I don't see libtards wanting to impose stricter driving laws and licensing.

Murders and violent crimes are more important to show.

What do you think started seat belt and helmet laws? You are a gibbering idiot.

The graph talked about overall gun deaths as well as homicides. You suck at reading too.


Compared with the quartile of states with the fewest laws, the quartile with the most laws had a lower firearm suicide rate (absolute rate difference, 6.25 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.48-0.83) and a lower firearm homicide rate (absolute rate difference, 0.40 deaths/100 000/y; IRR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.38-0.95).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I said the second poorly. The contention is that increased gun laws lower crime. It does not. Your graph included all gun deaths, which includes accidental. How many of these accidents were criminal? Crime rates have less to do with if weapons are legal or not, and more to do with the culture diversity of the population. That said, making it harder for good citizens to protect themselves, means the criminals are less worried about getting shot themselves.

Poorly? You contradicted yourself and showed very clearly that you are talking out of your ass unable to keep up with even your own bullshit.

You show a graph of violent crime. We are interested in guns here. That is what the topic is about. You fail to address that too. I'm done. Your stupidity is on full display and I am wasting my time.

[Wild Cobra]

Poorly? You contradicted yourself and showed very clearly that you are talking out of your ass unable to keep up with even your own bullshit.

You show a graph of violent crime. We are interested in guns here. That is what the topic is about. You fail to address that too. I'm done. Your stupidity is on full display and I am wasting my time.

Are you really so lame that you must bully someone how ever youu think you have an angle to?

Pathetic.

You are fucking pathetic.

Seat belt laws... LOL... What about enforcing the basic rule. People violate it all the time. There is no need for 95%+ of the traffic fatalities. If you wish to stop deaths, then isn't the largest contributor of unnecessary deaths the place to start?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you really so lame that you must bully someone how ever youu think you have an angle to?

Pathetic.

You are fucking pathetic.

Seat belt laws... LOL... What about enforcing the basic rule. People violate it all the time. There is no need for 95%+ of the traffic fatalities. If you wish to stop deaths, then isn't the largest contributor of unnecessary deaths the place to start?

:lol

[boutons_deux]

This is how you show correlation:

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/03/striking-relationship-between-gun-safety-laws-and-firearm-deaths/4902/


Note the use of a map when displaying geographic information.

Further:



Imagine if rigorous gun regulation as a public (interstate) health policy / "promote the general welfare" was Federal rather than state or municipal.

[boutons_deux]

The Myth of the Good Guy with a Gun: How I was Almost Curtis Reeveshttp://thedailybanter.com/2014/01/the-myth-of-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-how-i-was-almost-curtis-reeves/

[TSA]

The Myth of the Good Guy with a Gun: How I was Almost Curtis Reeveshttp://thedailybanter.com/2014/01/the-myth-of-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-how-i-was-almost-curtis-reeves/



So the guy didn't kill anyone. Cool story bro.

Here are some cool stats to go with your cool story.

General Public .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

CCW Holders .00425 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

[boutons_deux]

So the guy didn't kill anyone. Cool story bro.

Here are some cool stats to go with your cool story.

General Public .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

CCW Holders .00425 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

bullshit. but, no surprise.

how many gun-dead dead kids, their friends and family in houses with no guns? :lol

[TSA]

What was the point of the story you posted?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So the guy didn't kill anyone. Cool story bro.

Here are some cool stats to go with your cool story.

General Public .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

CCW Holders .00425 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

There are ~7m CCL in the US. The population is ~350m. That is ~2% of the population with concealed carry. Yet they have 10% of the total murders when if it was the same rate then they would have 2% per capita ie 5 times the rate.

[TSA]

There are ~7m CCL in the US. The population is ~350m. That is ~2% of the population with concealed carry. Yet they have 10% of the total murders when if it was the same rate then they would have 2% per capita ie 5 times the rate.
Where is your data coming from? Be sure you are not including CCW suicides in your murder stats.

[TSA]

I have always felt that the Violence Policy Center (VPC) was very aptly named. After all, they do advocate for public policy positions that would certainly result in violence against law abiding citizens if implemented.

Thankfully, their increasingly shrill cries for American citizens to abandon freedom for the nurturing bosom of a totalitarian regime have been generally ignored by one and all.

However, I must give them credit for dogged determination in the face of overwhelming reality. You have to remember that, when they were formed in 1988, there were 15 states where obtaining a concealed carry permit was legally impossible and 25 “may-issue” states where obtaining a permit was uncertain at best.

But now, after 21 years of diligent hand-wringing by the VPC and their ilk, there are only 2 states remaining which do not allow concealed carry and 39 states have passed “shall-issue” laws which require that all citizens who meet the statutory requirements be issued a permit without the nepotism, elitism and cronyism that are the hallmarks of the “may-issue” process.

Talk about a stark image of failure …



But the VPC soldiers on, not allowing two decades of abysmal, abject failure to discourage them from their insidious mission. Their latest attack on the fundamental right of self-defense comes as Senators Thune and Vitter have introduced an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (S. 1390) which would allow an individual who has met the requirements for a carry permit in his home state, or who is otherwise allowed by his home state's law to carry a firearm, to carry a firearm for protection in any other state that issues such permits so long as the laws of the state in which the firearm is carried are observed.

As states such as Maryland, New York, and New Jersey panic over the idea of losing the ability to provide disarmed herds of victims for their criminals, the VPC has sprung to the rescue like a well paid mob lawyer and has released the results of a poorly concocted “study” claiming to illustrate the evils of concealed carry permits.

I use the word “study” loosely in order to not offend the sensibilities of any true statistician who might be reading this article. Their methodology appears to have been to assign a slightly inebriated intern to do a Google news search for “permit holder” and “charged with”.

These results were apparently then pasted into notepad and ultimately compiled into a state by state list by the VPC’s crack technical staff. The resulting PDF file (the creation of which I imagine was a matter of some pride) was dubbed Law Enforcement and Private Citizens Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders: An Analysis of News Reports, May 2007 to April 2009.

On a more serious note

The “study” purports to show that during the strangely arbitrary period from May 2007 until April 2009, permit holders were responsible for the deaths of 7 police officers and 44 citizens.

Now … the loss of a single innocent life is a tragedy that cannot be taken too seriously. And as an ardent supporter of our nation’s law enforcement officers, who are overwhelmingly our brothers and sisters in our struggle to protect and enhance our rights as gun owners, I mourn the loss of these 7 brave officers deeply.

But does this “study” hold water as it attempts to capitalize on these deaths politically? Ted Deeds, Chief Operating Officer of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) doesn’t think so.

“I've only just started looking at it and, no surprise, I think there will be lots of holes in it. As always, one cop injured or killed, one good guy injured or killed is too many. But I suspect that there are A LOT more significant mechanisms of injury/death than what this so-called 'report' hopes to conclude.”

Let’s examine the many, many flaws that render their data virtually meaningless and reduces their “study” to nothing more than the ideological propaganda that is the normal grist of the VPC mill.

Flaw #1: How did they identify permit holders?

The report makes it clear that they have no idea whether or not they are accurately identifying these parties as permit holders. In the study, they admit as much, “Because of the secretive nature of concealed handgun permit laws, the VPC relied primarily on news accounts.”

Wait … what? The very premise upon which the “study” is based is the fact that these shooters are permit holders. And this key, threshold issue was determined by relying upon news reports? I cannot remember the last time that I read a news report involving a firearm that did not contain a serious mistake of fact that was glaringly evident to anyone with even a modicum of firearms knowledge.

But wait … surely this lack of verifiable facts can be remedied. After all, the presence or absence of a carry permit would be entered into evidence in the trial and thus available to the VPC for verification.

Except … this leads us to flaw #2.

Flaw #2: Charged with a crime does not equal conviction

Many of the alleged permit holders noted in this report are described as having been charged with a crime but no further information is provided as to the disposition of the charge. This is an important and glaring attempt to cloud the issue.

In many states and jurisdictions, a citizen who properly and legally defends themselves from an attack may well expect to be initially charged with a crime. The charges may later be dropped or may be no-true-billed at the grand jury level. A charge does NOT equal a conviction and yet the VPC, an organization that promotes itself as a public policy think-tank on legal and constitutional issues, treats them as synonymous.

It should come as no surprise that the VPC does not support the concepts of “due process” or “innocent until proven guilty” any more than they do the right to defend one’s self or one’s family.

Perhaps I could suggest a new VPC motto. “Individual rights are like potato chips, you can’t destroy just one!”

Flaw #3: Does my permit allow me to carry a strangling cord?

Another blatant attempt to pad the data was brought to my attention by Mr. Deeds. It comes in the form of several data points involving non-handgun related killings by “permit holders” (see Flaw #1).

Carry permits allow a person to carry a handgun for personal protection. In cases where rifles or other weapons are used to commit a crime, the fact that the person may or may not have been a permit holder is a moot point and not germane to the issue at hand.

Flaw #4: Who is more dangerous?

The VPC concludes their report by stating that these examples illustrate clearly that concealed carry laws are not good public policy because permit holders are dangerous. Furthermore, there is a clear implication that they are more dangerous than the general public.

Let’s take a closer look at the statistics to refute this wild inaccuracy. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, across the general public in the United States, there are an average of .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

Now … even if we concede all 51 deaths detailed in the VPC report as wrongful deaths, averaging them across the over 6 MILLION permit holders in the United States and taking into account the two year timeframe, we get an average of .00425 per 1,000 per year.

In other words, even if they are 100% correct in their wildly flawed report, they have simply proven that permit holders commit murders at a rate that is 1/10th of the general public.

The VPC report also makes much of the fact that 7 of the victims in these news reports were police officers. They go out of their way to imply that as concealed carry has swept across the nation, law enforcement deaths have risen alarmingly. The only problem with this? It, like so much else that comes from the VPC, is blatantly untrue.

In a report released last week, the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund released data that soundly refutes this claim. Chairman of the Memorial Fund, Craig Floyd said it best, "There are three-times more officers on our streets than in the 1970s, and we have half the number of fatalities."

As a matter of fact, since this is supposed to be a debate over statistics, let’s map the killing of officers with firearms against the rise in shall issue states. The data for officer deaths comes from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and the Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (See VPC … that is what we call citing to actual authority).
http://www.examiner.com/article/lies-damn-lies-and-vpc-statistics

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Where is your data coming from? Be sure you are not including CCW suicides in your murder stats.

Really?


So the guy didn't kill anyone. Cool story bro.

Here are some cool stats to go with your cool story.

General Public .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

CCW Holders .00425 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

What we should ask is where your numbers come from. Damn, if you aren't one of the most blatant sophist I have seen.

[BradLohaus]

There is one stat that is better than all stats, but it must not be named.

[Winehole23]

namely?

[TSA]

Really?Yes. Where are you getting that CCL's are responsible for 10% of all murders? Also, are you including justified homocides?




What we should ask is where your numbers come from. Damn, if you aren't one of the most blatant sophist I have seen.John Pierce via the FBI Uniform Crime Report.

[TSA]

How would you classify this one Fuzzy?


http://m.wistv.com/#!/newsDetail/24527798


Police: Attempted jewelry store robbery ends in suspect shooting himself
Updated: 01/23/2014 9:03 am PST


Police in Sumter are investigating the attempted armed robbery of a jewelry store that ended with the suspect shooting himself in the head.

Sumter Police say officers were called to Galloway and Moseley Fine Jewelers on North Guigard Drive for an attempted armed robbery Thursday morning. Police say just before 8 a.m., the man tried to rob two employees as they opened the store.

Chief Russell Roark says one of the store employees holds a concealed weapons permit and was armed. Roark says the employee drew his gun in self-defense and pointed it toward the suspect. Roark says the suspect turned his own weapon to his head and shot himself.

The suspect died at the scene. His name will not be released until his family is notified.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes. Where are you getting that CCL's are responsible for 10% of all murders? Also, are you including justified homocides?



John Pierce via the FBI Uniform Crime Report.

It's murder rate. The ratio of CCL to the total population. 2 out of every 100 people have one. If the national average is x then you should expect .02*x as your outcome if the were at the same rate as the national average. if x is .0428 then the value should be .0009 or 2% of the aggregate.

Instead we see it is in reality .0042 or over 8 times the expected rate of .0009.

It's algebra and critical thinking so I doubt youll get this either.

[TSA]

It's murder rate. The ratio of CCL to the total population. 2 out of every 100 people have one. If the national average is x then you should expect .02*x as your outcome if the were at the same rate as the national average. if x is .0428 then the value should be .0009 or 2% of the aggregate.

Instead we see it is in reality .0042 or over 8 times the expected rate of .0009.

It's algebra and critical thinking so I doubt youll get this either.

Again, where are you getting the amount of murders CCL holders commit yearly. Sources please.

[TSA]

Best of luck backing up the claim that CCL holders are responsible for 10% of all murders. Don't forget your sources :lol


*snip*


The State of North Carolina is home to roughly 9.38 million people as of 2009. Of those residents only 228,072 hold a valid concealed carry permit according to the latest figures released by the North Carolina Department of Justice, figures which reflect the applications since December 1995 when the state began issuing permits. That equates to roughly 2.4% of the population that is legally allowed to carry a concealed firearm. As an interesting side note, those 228,072 permit holders come from an applicant pool of 399,268 which indicates that only about 57% of applications result in a permit.

In the year 2009 the FBI reported that murder and manslaughter (illegal acts where a person died) was committed at a rate of approximately 5.3 deaths for every 100,000 people in the state of North Carolina. This works out to about 497 deaths per year (using the population for 2009). Statistically the population of concealed carry permit holders should fall in line with this criminal death rate, and so we should expect no less than 12 criminal deaths in the year 2009 alone. However, the New York Times was only able to dredge up 10 such deaths (murders and manslaughter combined), and that was only accomplished by combining the last five years together. While we would expect 2% of the population to be responsible for 60 deaths over 5 years, in reality they are only responsible for 10.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So the guy didn't kill anyone. Cool story bro.

Here are some cool stats to go with your cool story.

General Public .042802 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.

CCW Holders .00425 murders per 1,000 citizens per year.


Best of luck backing up the claim that CCL holders are responsible for 10% of all murders. Don't forget your sources :lol


*snip*


The State of North Carolina is home to roughly 9.38 million people as of 2009. Of those residents only 228,072 hold a valid concealed carry permit according to the latest figures released by the North Carolina Department of Justice, figures which reflect the applications since December 1995 when the state began issuing permits. That equates to roughly 2.4% of the population that is legally allowed to carry a concealed firearm. As an interesting side note, those 228,072 permit holders come from an applicant pool of 399,268 which indicates that only about 57% of applications result in a permit.

In the year 2009 the FBI reported that murder and manslaughter (illegal acts where a person died) was committed at a rate of approximately 5.3 deaths for every 100,000 people in the state of North Carolina. This works out to about 497 deaths per year (using the population for 2009). Statistically the population of concealed carry permit holders should fall in line with this criminal death rate, and so we should expect no less than 12 criminal deaths in the year 2009 alone. However, the New York Times was only able to dredge up 10 such deaths (murders and manslaughter combined), and that was only accomplished by combining the last five years together. While we would expect 2% of the population to be responsible for 60 deaths over 5 years, in reality they are only responsible for 10.

Well whatever I framed it as, my point is that they are much more likely to commit murders according to the numbers you gave. I made the denominators the same so you can compare apples to apples. Then you can search for the unknown. It's this crazy thing called math. I explained it above.

[TSA]

Well whatever I framed it as, my point is that they are much more likely to commit murders according to the numbers you gave :lmao I made the denominators the same so you can compare apples to apples. Then you can search for the unknown. It's this crazy thing called math. I explained it above.
What happened to critical thinking Fuzzy?


So you are admitting to taking the numbers I gave you a la "John Pierce" and using that to form your argument?

Do you even know how "John Pierce" got his data? If I were the one countering said argument I'd be sure to at least look in to it.

Did you do any of your own research regarding CCL holder's murder rate? No?

The only thing you have explained is that you obviously haven't done your own research regarding CCL holders and their murder rate compared to the general public. I didn't think you'd take the bait so easily.

[TSA]

Still waiting for CCL holders commit 10% of the murders stats.............source it!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What happened to critical thinking Fuzzy?


So you are admitting to taking the numbers I gave you a la "John Pierce" and using that to form your argument?

Do you even know how "John Pierce" got his data? If I were the one countering said argument I'd be sure to at least look in to it.

Did you do any of your own research regarding CCL holder's murder rate? No?

The only thing you have explained is that you obviously haven't done your own research regarding CCL holders and their murder rate compared to the general public. I didn't think you'd take the bait so easily.

I take two things from this.

1) You have no credibility.
2) You claim trolling anytime you say stupid shit.

[TSA]

I take two things from this.

1) You have no credibility.
2) You claim trolling anytime you say stupid shit.

You failed to answer a single question.

The stage is yours CCL murder rate expert.