2014 Spurs Summer League Thread

[SpursRock20]

Thomas/Green > Daye/Ayres

[Kurik]

Thomas is definitely putting the effort in.

[RD2191]

How does your begging fit in with that?
Begging? I enjoy watching you deflect the question every time I ask you.

[Taking it to the Hole]

Cherry and Green are the only ones doing anything right now on the court. Cherry is a good pick up for the Cavs but Green is trying to just get noticed. Hopefully the Spurs give him a closer look. DeSHaunThomas has shown some flashes but he jacked up way too many 3s tonight.

[ChumpDumper]

Begging? I enjoy watching you deflect the question every time I ask you.Deflecting.

I turn you down every time.

And you haven't posted anything about yourself, so it's just as easy to say you are lying and hiding.

[xmas1997]

Green hopefully will make the team this year. Kyle is a lock.

[RD2191]

Deflecting.

I turn you down every time.

And you haven't posted anything about yourself, so it's just as easy to say you are lying and hiding.
Yeah, even though I'm offering my Facebook so you can see who I am you still bitch out. What are you hiding? Your raccoon looking face?

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Deshaun is the only one who looks NBA ready.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, even though I'm offering my Facebook so you can see who I am you still bitch out. What are you hiding? Your raccoon looking face?Offering what?

I see no link to it.

[Holden_Caulfield]

shit i paid $5 to see this shitfest

[RD2191]

Offering what?

I see no link to it.
You want a PM with my Facebook link? If I send it and don't get a friend request I know you just looked at my profile and bitched out.

[ChumpDumper]

You want a PM with my Facebook link? If I send it and don't get a friend request I know you just looked at my profile and bitched out.Why would a tough guy like you send a pansy-ass PM?

Post it in a thread in the club so everyone can have a good look at you.

[RD2191]

Why would a tough guy like you send a pansy-ass PM?

Post it in a thread in the club so everyone can have a good look at you.
Why would I do that? I'm calling you out and you keep deflecting. And I've said anyone who wants to add me on FB can. Just ask for a PM and I'll send the link. Keep deflecting though, pussy.

[Baam]

Well after watching that Cavs vs Bucks game that looked on another level compared to the Spurs first SL game the result is as expected tbh...

[Baam]

Get a room guys...

[ChumpDumper]

Why would I do that? I'm calling you out and you keep deflecting. And I've said anyone who wants to add me on FB can. Just ask for a PM and I'll send the link. Keep deflecting though, pussy.lol you just delfected.

What a pussy.

:cry PM me plz. I'm afraid to post it in The Club. But i'm tough! I'll fight you! :cry

[TE]

meh, SL. Who gives a fuck.

Take home message here is that Ayres still sucks.

[RD2191]

lol you just delfected.

What a pussy.

:cry PM me plz. I'm afraid to post it in The Club :cry
LOL, like I said, keep hiding, David.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL, like I said, keep hiding, David.You too, Roberto.

[RD2191]

meh, SL. Who gives a fuck.

Take home message here is that Ayres still sucks.
Dude is straight garbage. He must have some dirt on Pop, only reason I can think of as to why he's still on the team.

[TE]

Dude is straight garbage. He must have some dirt on Pop, only reason I can think of as to why he's still on the team.

Honestly. I thought he'd at least bang well as his style of play could fit SL more. He's just shit. Another recipient of the genetic lottery. I'm going to cringe when he gets regular season minutes.

[RD2191]

Honestly. I thought he'd at least bang well as his style of play could fit SL more. He's just shit. Another recipient of the genetic lottery. I'm going to cringe when he gets regular season minutes.
Only reason I don't mind him on the team is because I know he's good for some cheap shots if we ever need them.:lol

[anakha]

Jackie Butler vs Ayers in a poll of who people consider as the bigger salary waste might be interesting.

[ChumpDumper]

Jackie Butler vs Ayers in a poll of who people consider as the bigger salary waste might be interesting.Butler by far. Ayers barely costs anything and the Spurs are nowhere near the tax threshold.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Disappointed in Daye. He should be dominating.

He's doing some of the little things, but not enough to stay on the court if he can't throw it in the ocean. This was a worse game for him than the last one.

[Johnny RIngo]

Jackie Butler vs Ayers in a poll of who people consider as the bigger salary waste might be interesting.

$2,200,000 - Butler 2007 salary
$1,750,000 - Ayres 2014 salary

Both were pretty terrible. SA using MLE money on Ayres was pretty embarrassing when he probably could have been had with the vet min. But Butler wins this pretty easily due to Spurs losing Scola because of him.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I wonder if the Spurs staff is killing the team in practice, almost every missed jumper has been short.

I wondered the same thing. I didn't expect the worst aspect of Daye's game to be his shooting.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Ime's insistence on playing Ayers is adversely affecting my mood.

I am sure he is operating under the directive from higher ups. They obviously sent Daye and Ayres to play, for whatever reason.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I found a good Pic of Ayers holding a basketball....
http://www.cricketbread.com/images/trash2.jpg

I feel bad for laughing.

[BackHome]

San Antonio Spurs (1-1)



field goalsrebounds



pos
min
fgm-a
3pm-a
ftm-a
+/-
off
def
tot
ast
pf
st
to
bs
ba
pts


K. Anderson (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_kyle_anderson/index.html)

F
25:07

1-7
0-0
0-0
-11
0
6
6
0
1
3
1
1
2
2



A. Daye (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_austin_daye/index.html):lol

F

22:56

3-11

2-6

2-4

-6

0
5
5
2
6
1
2
1
0
10


J. Ayres (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_jeff_ayres/index.html):lol

C
22:05
1-4

0-0

0-0
-20
1

1
2
1
6
1
1
0
0
2



M. Denmon (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_marcus_denmon/index.html)
G
21:45
3-8
2-5
0-0
-13
0
0
0
0
3
1
0
0
0
8


B. Cotton (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_bryce_cotton/index.html)
G
22:21
1-6
0-4
1-2
-20
1
2
3
4
0
0
1
0
0
3


D. Thomas (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_deshaun_thomas/index.html)

27:11
7-16
2-5
5-5
-6
5
0
5
0
0
0
0
0
2
21


D. Morris (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_darius_morris/index.html)

22:40
3-7
0-0
0-0
+3
1
4
5
5
1
0
1
1
0
6


M. Ejim (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_melvin_ejim/index.html)

07:57
0-1
0-0
2-2
+3
0
1
1
0
1
0
0
0
0
2


J. Green (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_jamychal_green/index.html)

17:54
6-11
0-2
0-0
+10
1
5
6
0
4
1
2
2
0
12


V. Blue (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_vander_blue/index.html)

02:30
0-1
0-0
0-0
-4
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0


T. McKinney-Jones (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_trey_mckinney-jones/index.html)

07:34
0-2
0-2
4-4
+4
0
2
2
0
2
0
0
0
0
4


N. Boungou-Colo (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_nobel_boungou-colo/index.html)
DNP - Coach's Decision


V. Gaddefors (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_viktor_gaddefors/index.html)
DNP - Coach's Decision


X. Rey (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_xavi_rey/index.html)
DNP - Coach's Decision


R. Richards (http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2014/players/sl_ryan_richards/index.html)
DNP - Coach's Decision


Total

200
25-74
6-24
14-17

9
26
35
12
24
7
9
5
4
70



33.8%
25.0%
82.4%

team rebs: 7
total to: 9


inactive





c









http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/img/2.0/sect/gameinfo/nbaGI300Btm.gif

[Mal]

I wonder if anyone wants CoJo so bad, that they will take Errors with him.

[Richie]

I wonder if anyone wants CoJo so bad, that they will take Errors with him.

I wouldn't give up CoJo just to be rid of Ayres. Just waive him if we have to.

[MeloHype]

So Wiggins made Anderson his bitch?

[Baam]

Daye and Ayres shouldn't play anymore, run everything through Anderson and surround him with scorers like Thomas tbh instead of these black holes...

[Mal]

I wouldn't give up CoJo just to be rid of Ayres. Just waive him if we have to.

I still think CoJo is going to be traded. If Cotton plays like shit, he`ll probably stick around until Mills is back.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I wouldn't give up CoJo just to be rid of Ayres. Just waive him if we have to.

x2

[Chinook]

I still think CoJo is going to be traded. If Cotton plays like shit, he`ll probably stick around until Mills is back.

Why would Joseph be traded? He's clearly still better than Cotton, and Pop's going to roll three deep at PG not counting Mills. He values points too much

[Vic Petro]

Joseph is the backup PG. He cannot be traded.

[look_at_g_shred]

Anyone else liking the play of Morris?

[Obstructed_View]

It's really fucked up that the SL package by Samsung is five bucks on NBA.com and it's fifteen bucks on my Samsung phone. I thought it was supposed to be free online this year. Sucks that I missed the game.

[BatManu20]

Just now watching today's game cause I was watch the WC earlier. God Ayers is so awful. There's no hope. He's just not a good basketball player in any ways.

[DPG21920]

In looking at the two games so far (it's early and obviously hard to evaluate) I am not impressed with anyone. Green's game today was very nice, but there are still some of the same questions persisting that have kept him from the NBA so far (shooting). Other than that, Kyle's concerns from before the draft still loom large (speed, defense, shooting) and no one has had anywhere close to a Gary Neal type performance with a skill that you can bank on other than Green's shot blocking/athleticism IMO.

Still early and they are adjusting.

[BackHome]

By all means, look at one game instead of 14 games where he shot 41% from behind the arc. By your reckoning, Steve Kerr can't shoot. He went 2-12 one time from 3. Instead of making a bolded statement to show the conviction in your mathematics, how about a wager? I say that Daye shoots closer to 41% for the regular season from the 3 point line this year than he does to 17%, which is what he shot tonight, from the three point line. We take his regular season 3 point percentage, find the two differences, whichever is greater, loses. Let's make something good out of your irrational thoughts and feelings, namely profit for myself.

OK two games combined 8 for 29 for Austin Daye.

[littlecoyotecoin]

OK two games combined 8 for 29 for Austin Daye.

You're getting there. Keep going.

[FireMicoHalili]

Man you'd think Daye would at least make up for the first game. He plays well, doesn't matter because it's the SL. He plays badly, everyone's on his case. What are we fighting for exactly

[emanueldavidginobili]

its so sad that Daye and Ayers are that bad in a Summer league. They both have been in the league for 5 years they should be dominating these kids. Im not worried about KA I think he will play good when he's on the court with 4 other good players and in a system. Right now he's playing with scrubs I think his game will flourish when he's sorrounded by good players that understand the game. KA is a perfect fit for the Spurs.

[littlecoyotecoin]

OK two games combined 8 for 29 for Austin Daye.

Also, if we get to count summer league games, do we get to count warm-ups, practice, and training camp, too? He is not shooting well, and may not improve, but I am patient enough to allow those that are working with him on a daily basis make that determination. You're not a day-trader, by any chance?

[littlecoyotecoin]

Man you'd think Daye would at least make up for the first game. He plays well, doesn't matter because it's the SL. He plays badly, everyone's on his case. What are we fighting for exactly

Yeah, when he destroyed the Sixers, it didn't count because they weren't good enough competition. He goes into a shooting slump in a couple summer league games and it's proof positive. He can't win at this point, really. He'll have to play well for several games in the regular season to wash even a little of the stink off.

[Darkwaters]

Also, if we get to count summer league games, do we get to count warm-ups, practice, and training camp, too? He is not shooting well, and may not improve, but I am patient enough to allow those that are working with him on a daily basis make that determination. You're not a day-trader, by any chance?

5 years of failure isn't day trading. That's called a capital loss.


Yeah, when he destroyed the Sixers, it didn't count because they weren't good enough competition. He goes into a shooting slump in a couple summer league games and it's proof positive. He can't win at this point, really. He'll have to play well for several games in the regular season to wash even a little of the stink off.

If one game was all it took then Darius Washington would still be our back-up PG.

[FireMicoHalili]

Yeah, when he destroyed the Sixers, it didn't count because they weren't good enough competition. He goes into a shooting slump in a couple summer league games and it's proof positive. He can't win at this point, really. He'll have to play well for several games in the regular season to wash even a little of the stink off.
Cuts both ways buddy, if Daye has a great game, it kind of proves your point. SL just really a showcase of what they can possibly offer. Daye has his whole career to prove he can shoot.

[littlecoyotecoin]

5 years of failure isn't day trading. That's called a capital loss.

You can day-trade for a week and stop. He played all of 8 games in Toronto. He's been in the league five years, but he hasn't played 5 years. Again, I'm content letting Chip and Pop make this determination.


If one game was all it took then Darius Washington would still be our back-up PG.

One isn't enough, but two is. That's the point. He shot well in the RS with us. He is regarded as a good shooter, but two games in summer league, and now he's no longer a shooter. Nothing like bad shooting to take people's eyes off of your physique, though. If he ever starts nailing the jumpers, we can go back to discussing his weight.

If they cut him, I won't second guess them, at this point. But, I can still see them holding onto him for a plethora of reasons.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Cuts both ways buddy, if Daye has a great game, it kind of proves your point. SL just really a showcase of what they can possibly offer. Daye has his whole career to prove he can shoot.

Heh, yup. His whole career. Be it a season, month, week, or today.

It actually looked like, in the beginning of today's game, that he was passing up a couple of open looks, and they yanked his ass. Then, when they subbed him back in, he started firing away like that first game. I think he may have the green light. Some have been calling him a ball stopper, but I think they want him shooting a lot of shots. Another poster commented in another thread that the whole team's legs look tired as all of them were clanking short. He queried as to whether or not Ime may have been busting their asses in practice. I promise not to lose any sleep over it.

[Darkwaters]

One isn't enough, but two is. That's the point. He shot well in the RS with us. He is regarded as a good shooter, but two games in summer league, and now he's no longer a shooter. Nothing like bad shooting to take people's eyes off of your physique, though. If he ever starts nailing the jumpers, we can go back to discussing his weight.

If they cut him, I won't second guess them, at this point. But, I can still see them holding onto him for a plethora of reasons.

:lol That's selective memory at its worst.

Austin Daye shot 41% from 3 for us last season. Sounds awesome on the surface. But if you look at the actual numbers he was 12-29 on the season. Thats it! 29 attempts.

To make it worse, the guy had one hot game where he went 6-10 from 3. That was the Spurs vs. 76ers game on March 24th (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400489927). It was an awesome game and definitely a credit to him. Then again, the 76ers were one of the worst teams in NBA history last season and they were riding a 24 game losing streak when they showed up. Not exactly stout competition...

While that game was great, it's an obvious outlier. If you take that one game away he was 6-19 or 32% for the season. Not exactly getting it done in any respect. Definitely not "shooting well" as you say.

Also, his overall FG% was 38% when playing for us last season. That includes all shots - even that really hot game he had. If we only look at his 2 pt shots he went 9 for 26 or 34.5%. Again - garbage.

Don't tell me he was a good player for us last year. It's just a fantasy of yours.

[Russ]

Jackie Butler vs Ayers in a poll of who people consider as the bigger salary waste might be interesting.

Even more interesting -- that both came highly recommended by coaches whom Pop greatly respected.

Butler by Pop's mentor Larry Brown

Ayers by Pop's assistant Jim Boylen.

Neither would have even sniffed the Spurs roster without these endorsements.

With friends like these . . . .

[Darkwaters]

You can day-trade for a week and stop. He played all of 8 games in Toronto. He's been in the league five years, but he hasn't played 5 years. Again, I'm content letting Chip and Pop make this determination.

Ever think that maybe theres a reason he only played 8 games and got traded for Nando de freaking Colo?

[littlecoyotecoin]

5 years of failure isn't day trading. That's called a capital loss.



If one game was all it took then Darius Washington would still be our back-up PG.

Last year, he played 8 games in Toronto and 14 with us. He got paid, but that's not exactly "a year in the NBA". Or, all years do not convey the same experience. A lot of his other time was spent this way, too...bouncing around. Maybe deservedly, but trotting out the 5 year veteran line is comical. And, I see in another post you're saying I am claiming he was a "good player for us last year". Slow down. I never claimed that.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Ever think that maybe theres a reason he only played 8 games and got traded for Nando de freaking Colo?

Is that how we got him? Really, that's not an argument. Bad trades are made all the time. We traded Hill for Kawhi, basically. Do you feel they are equally talented? We even got Bertans in, to boot.

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol That's selective memory at its worst.

Austin Daye shot 41% from 3 for us last season. Sounds awesome on the surface. But if you look at the actual numbers he was 12-29 on the season. Thats it! 29 attempts.

To make it worse, the guy had one hot game where he went 6-10 from 3. That was the Spurs vs. 76ers game on March 24th (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400489927). It was an awesome game and definitely a credit to him. Then again, the 76ers were one of the worst teams in NBA history last season and they were riding a 24 game losing streak when they showed up. Not exactly stout competition...

While that game was great, it's an obvious outlier. If you take that one game away he was 6-19 or 32% for the season. Not exactly getting it done in any respect. Definitely not "shooting well" as you say.

Also, his overall FG% was 38% when playing for us last season. That includes all shots - even that really hot game he had. If we only look at his 2 pt shots he went 9 for 26 or 34.5%. Again - garbage.

Don't tell me he was a good player for us last year. It's just a fantasy of yours.

Unfortunately, you don't get to cherry pick your data like that. Essentially, you are saying that if you ignore his good shooting streaks, his numbers fall. Good for him that holds true for every player in the history of the sport. To be honest, I thought he had a little way to go to reach his RS shot attempts in summer league. He isn't doing himself any favors, granted.

[Obstructed_View]

Daye is awful. At this point, even if he has an Anthony Tolliver game, I don't think the Spurs are going to save a roster spot for him.

[Darkwaters]

Unfortunately, you don't get to cherry pick your data like that. Essentially, you are saying that if you ignore his good shooting streaks, his numbers fall. Good for him that holds true for every player in the history of the sport. To be honest, I thought he had a little way to go to reach his RS shot attempts in summer league. He isn't doing himself any favors, granted.

:lol

I argued that he had one good game. You refuted that saying he had a great season for us. I just proved my point and disproved yours. Don't try and change the topic.

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol That's selective memory at its worst.

Austin Daye shot 41% from 3 for us last season. Sounds awesome on the surface. But if you look at the actual numbers he was 12-29 on the season. Thats it! 29 attempts.

To make it worse, the guy had one hot game where he went 6-10 from 3. That was the Spurs vs. 76ers game on March 24th (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400489927). It was an awesome game and definitely a credit to him. Then again, the 76ers were one of the worst teams in NBA history last season and they were riding a 24 game losing streak when they showed up. Not exactly stout competition...

While that game was great, it's an obvious outlier. If you take that one game away he was 6-19 or 32% for the season. Not exactly getting it done in any respect. Definitely not "shooting well" as you say.

Also, his overall FG% was 38% when playing for us last season. That includes all shots - even that really hot game he had. If we only look at his 2 pt shots he went 9 for 26 or 34.5%. Again - garbage.

Don't tell me he was a good player for us last year. It's just a fantasy of yours.

He went 2/2 vs The Heat, ANOTHER outlier. Throw out all the outliers, but just the positive outliers. It doesn't work that way. I don't like to get into too many numbers discussions, but I actually have a degree in mathematics. I understand a little bit about it.

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol

I argued that he had one good game. You refuted that saying he had a great season for us. I just proved my point and disproved yours. Don't try and change the topic.

Point to the post where I said: "He had a great season for us."

[DPG21920]

Daye is awful. At this point, even if he has an Anthony Tolliver game, I don't think the Spurs are going to save a roster spot for him.

I know he's cheap and can be cut, but I don't know what the Spurs were thinking picking up his option?

[Obstructed_View]

I know he's cheap and can be cut, but I don't know what the Spurs were thinking picking up his option?

Oh I think it was probably worth it. If you're going to trade for him and take a chance on him, you needed to see him in the summer league. I have no problem with finding out if he can play. He can't. The only person on that roster more frustrating than he is (that we actually give a shit about) is Ayres.

[Darkwaters]

Is that how we got him? Really, that's not an argument. Bad trades are made all the time. We traded Hill for Kawhi, basically. Do you feel they are equally talented? We even got Bertans in, to boot.

So this was a bad trade? For whom? Seems to me neither team got a rotation player - or anyone of consequence. So you think we fleeced Toronto? Seriously? In what world?

Your argument makes no sense.

[Obstructed_View]

He went 2/2 vs The Heat, ANOTHER outlier. Throw out all the outliers, but just the positive outliers. It doesn't work that way. I don't like to get into too many numbers discussions, but I actually have a degree in mathematics. I understand a little bit about it.
Scary thing is, the Spurs don't understand that stuff. They signed Gary Neal and Anthony Tolliver based on hot shooting in a single SL game. Fortunately they batted .500 on that. I'm hoping nobody gets hot from downtown going forward. :lol

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol

I argued that he had one good game. You refuted that saying he had a great season for us. I just proved my point and disproved yours. Don't try and change the topic.

And, no, you didn't prove your point, you cherry picked the data in an ATTEMPT to prove your point ;)

[DPG21920]

Oh I think it was probably worth it. If you're going to trade for him and take a chance on him, you needed to see him in the summer league. I have no problem with finding out if he can play. He can't. The only person on that roster more frustrating than he is (that we actually give a shit about) is Ayres.

No one understands the Ayres moves. He's just not an NBA player anymore. But with regards to Daye, it's not like they gave up an asset for him. It was basically just a try and do good deal by Nando with only small financial ramifications. Daye has been around and is not someone new. Spurs should have had plenty of tape on him.

Hopefully he and Ayres are traded or cut to open up roster spots for guys with more upside.

[Obstructed_View]

So this was a bad trade? For whom? Seems to me neither team got a rotation player - or anyone of consequence.

I agree. The Spurs got, at worst, equal value for a guy who couldn't cut it in the NBA. At least Daye, unlike De Colo has the physical tools to go with the lack of a work ethic.

[Darkwaters]

Point to the post where I said: "He had a great season for us."

I already did.


One isn't enough, but two is. That's the point. He shot well in the RS with us. He is regarded as a good shooter, but two games in summer league, and now he's no longer a shooter. Nothing like bad shooting to take people's eyes off of your physique, though. If he ever starts nailing the jumpers, we can go back to discussing his weight.

If they cut him, I won't second guess them, at this point. But, I can still see them holding onto him for a plethora of reasons.

Are you seriously not paying attention?

I said he had one good game in the season and nothing else.

You responded with the above post saying he shot well in the RS.

I pulled the numbers and disproved you completely.

Now you're about to argue semantics with me and try and save face.

[Darkwaters]

And, no, you didn't prove your point, you cherry picked the data in an ATTEMPT to prove your point ;)

How did I cherry pick anything? You said "he shot well in the RS with us." So I pulled the numbers for the ENTIRE regular season and proved that the numbers are skewed based on one outlier performance. How is that cherry picking in any sense of the word?

[Mel_13]

No one understands the Ayres moves. He's just not an NBA player anymore. But with regards to Daye, it's not like they gave up an asset for him. It was basically just a try and do good deal by Nando with only small financial ramifications. Daye has been around and is not someone new. Spurs should have had plenty of tape on him.

Hopefully he and Ayres are traded or cut to open up roster spots for guys with more upside.

The playoffs were almost two months long. Daye was working with the coaching staff that entire time. My guess is that they saw enough to extend his audition through the summer. At most, it will cost them about 800k if it doesn't work out and they have to waive him. His contract can also be useful as ballast in a trade.

[littlecoyotecoin]

So this was a bad trade? For whom? Seems to me neither team got a rotation player - or anyone of consequence. So you think we fleeced Toronto? Seriously? In what world?

Your argument makes no sense.

Ay yay yay. No. You suggested that Daye is not good because he was traded for Nando that is not good. I attempted to explain to you that that is a non-sequitur, and gave the Kawhi trade as an example of why. What happened next was you didn't understand.

[Darkwaters]

The playoffs were almost two months long. Daye was working with the coaching staff that entire time. My guess is that they saw enough to extend his audition through the summer. At most, it will cost them about 800k if it doesn't work out and they have to waive him. His contract can also be useful as ballast in a trade.

Chances were that they were going to bring in a journeyman with similar abilities for Training Camp. Had Daye been cut by someone else and available on the open market he very well could have been that signee himself. Instead he was already on the roster so they just rolled with him. He still probably faces the same trials as any other camp invitee....just with a little head start.

[DPG21920]

The playoffs were almost two months long. Daye was working with the coaching staff that entire time. My guess is that they saw enough to extend his audition through the summer. At most, it will cost them about 800k if it doesn't work out and they have to waive him. His contract can also be useful as ballast in a trade.

Definitely - at the end of the day it's small potatoes in the real world especially with LT in no danger (even if they use MLE). But just don't get what the heck they saw in Ayres and Daye

[Mel_13]

Chances were that they were going to bring in a journeyman with similar abilities for Training Camp. Had Daye been cut by someone else and available on the open market he very well could have been that signee himself. Instead he was already on the roster so they just rolled with him. He still probably faces the same trials as any other camp invitee....just with a little head start.

Yeah, his money his guaranteed, but his hold on that roster spot is tenuous.

[Bill_Brasky]

Nah, don't care if he stays or goes, but does everyone really have to say the same thing 30 times each?

says the guy who goes back and forth for pages and pages with SBM and avante in the club. you literally have no room.

[Chinook]

The playoffs were almost two months long. Daye was working with the coaching staff that entire time. My guess is that they saw enough to extend his audition through the summer. At most, it will cost them about 800k if it doesn't work out and they have to waive him. His contract can also be useful as ballast in a trade.

A trade seems really possible now. I can't imagine they're happy with Ayres after he's looked so bad in the summer league so far. It's a shame the team didn't give Damion James an extra non-guaranteed year. He, Daye and Ayres would have been enough to allow the Spurs to take back almost $6 Million.

[Mel_13]

Definitely - at the end of the day it's small potatoes in the real world especially with LT in no danger (even if they use MLE). But just don't get what the heck they saw in Ayres and Daye

Ayres is the real head scratcher. He's among the very worst rotation players the Spurs have had over the last decade or so.

[Darkwaters]

He went 2/2 vs The Heat, ANOTHER outlier. Throw out all the outliers, but just the positive outliers. It doesn't work that way. I don't like to get into too many numbers discussions, but I actually have a degree in mathematics. I understand a little bit about it.

You're seriously missing the point. I said his good shooting numbers were the product of ONE hot game. I have absolutely proven that point. That single game skews his numbers from pathetic to respectable (and down right great in 3pt%). It's a product of small sample size, clearly.

But I said nothing about tossing out all outliers. You said that. Nobody else.

Besides, while shooting 2 for 2 is technically a 100% FG% game, it is by no basketball fan's opinion a "hot" game.

[Darkwaters]

A trade seems really possible now. I can't imagine they're happy with Ayres after he's looked so bad in the summer league so far. It's a shame the team didn't give Damion James an extra non-guaranteed year. He, Daye and Ayres would have been enough to allow the Spurs to take back almost $6 Million.

I've been thinking about it too. I think it is looking more and more bleak for Ayres and Daye. I agree that a trade may be imminent.

If the 76ers are serious about tanking another season then I think Jeff Ayres can seriously help that team meet their goals!

[ChumpDumper]

says the guy who goes back and forth for pages and pages with SBM and avante in the club. you literally have no room.
It's the club.

Quite roomy there.

[littlecoyotecoin]

You're seriously missing the point. I said his good shooting numbers were the product of ONE hot game. I have absolutely proven that point. That single game skews his numbers from pathetic to respectable (and down right great in 3pt%). It's a product of small sample size, clearly.

But I said nothing about tossing out all outliers. You said that. Nobody else.

Besides, while shooting 2 for 2 is technically a 100% FG% game, it is by no basketball fan's opinion a "hot" game.

You're right. You said nothing about throwing out all outliers. You just started throwing them out. Starting with the one that bouys his numbers the greatest. And, who said hot? Nonetheless, it is added to the tally.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I already did.



Are you seriously not paying attention?

I said he had one good game in the season and nothing else.

You responded with the above post saying he shot well in the RS.

I pulled the numbers and disproved you completely.

Now you're about to argue semantics with me and try and save face.

He shot well in the regular season =/= He had a great season for us

[Chinook]

I've been thinking about it too. I think it is looking more and more bleak for Ayres and Daye. I agree that a trade may be imminent.

If the 76ers are serious about tanking another season then I think Jeff Ayres can seriously help that team meet their goals!

I would rather the Spurs eat their salaries than give up assets to dump them. I also think they'd only get rid of both in a trade for a better player. They only need one roster spot unless they have another player in mind for the 15th spot (assuming they sign a PG).

[littlecoyotecoin]

How did I cherry pick anything? You said "he shot well in the RS with us." So I pulled the numbers for the ENTIRE regular season and proved that the numbers are skewed based on one outlier performance. How is that cherry picking in any sense of the word?

Um, did you or did you not write a long post about how his numbers were skewed because of that ONE great game he had, then went on and on explaining how he DIDN'T shoot 41%, because if you ingore the great game, he really shot in the 30's, which is garbage. That cherry picking.

[Obstructed_View]

Okay, so today's game was a fucking abortion. They tinkered with the lineup from game 1 to try to get a little more impact and it was an unmitigated disaster. Both teams started the game shooting long jumpers. The Cavs made theirs, the Spurs did not. The Cavs began to take advantage inside as the Spurs tried to scramble. The Spurs continued trying to dig out of a hole all at once. I couldn't believe how often they would just settle for jumpers, but it put a knot in my stomach to watch. I thought I heard Dick Motta laughing at one point.

My conclusion from this game: I'm glad as hell there's no four-point line.

There are no three point shooters on the summer league team. I would much rather see the coaches tell them that they aren't allowed to shoot threes anymore and see what happens.

Austin Daye
He seems to think this league was convened so he could showcase himself. On a team that prides itself on finding good shots and sharing the ball, I'm unsure how he thinks he did that by going Summer-league Kobe on the Cavs. I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that the Spurs signed Matt Bonner during the game. /sarcasm

Kyle Anderson
Basically a forgotten man in this game, he did his work against Wiggins. He didn't get blown by, destroyed, dunked on, or fouled out. He got a shot blocked, but he also had a brilliant steal on Wiggins in the open court. His touches were few and far between. I'm not in love with his shot selection early in the game, but, bad as it was, he was the only guy looking to score inside. I can hardly blame him for not passing the ball because most of the guys on the floor seemed to think they were playing Pop-A-Shot. As I mentioned after game one, I really like his physicality. He got whistled for dropping a shoulder into Wiggins. It was one of the bright spots in the game. He had a big matchup and was equal to the task. Despite the physicality, he has a very even keel emotionally. He really is a good pick for the Spurs, by far the best they could have expected from that draft position.

Bryce Cotton
Okay, he's not a point guard. I really thought he was a better floor general last year in college, but he doesn't have good vision, and the offense was a trainwreck with him in charge. I still like him though. He got his ass torched by Cherry, it's true, but I don't think it was all his fault. What I liked: at one point, Cherry was taunting him, and Cotton was smart enough to just run the offense he was given instead of trying to one-up the guy. I admire that discipline.

DeShaun Thomas
I wouldn't normally waste space writing about him, but he just worked so hard trying to bring the team back, he deserves a mention. This is what I saw and liked about Thomas since he was at Ohio State. He's got a lot of pride, and he's a guy who will just put on his hard hat and go to work when it comes time to do it. He's so tough, and he's clutch. I like players who are more likely to make a jumper when they have to or who step in and make a big play when the team needs it. Thomas is that guy, and that's why I liked him last year too. I was told then that I have to face the reality that, despite that ability, he's too bulky and unathletic to be a swingman, and he's too small to be a power forward, which is really his natural position. In college, he was just a guy who managed to make good things happen, which is why his points per possession were through the roof. I think of Daye as Chris Sims, and Thomas as Major Applewhite. One of them is the guy with all the upside, the other one is the one who finds a way to win. I just like watching him go to work. I think he'll get another camp invite, and I still have my fingers crossed.

[Darkwaters]

You're right. You said nothing about throwing out all outliers. You just started throwing them out. Starting with the one that bouys his numbers the greatest. And, who said hot? Nonetheless, it is added to the tally.

Ok, lets start over.

Here is my thesis: Austin Daye's 3pt numbers appear good on the surface. However, they are a product of one hot shooting performance that sufficiently skews the rest of his season averages with the Spurs. When that one game is taken out of the equation, Daye actually shot very poorly last season from three (31.5%). His 2pt numbers are no better with sub-40 percentages. While sample size is clearly a factor, the nicest thing that I can say about his shooting is that hes "inconsistent".

Assessment: For a "shooter" prospect he is terribly inconsistent. The fact that his shooting woes continue in SL shouldn't surprise anybody. He wasn't knocking shots down during the regular season with the exception of one game that has people weak in the knees and ready to defend him as some purported dead-eye.

[Obstructed_View]

says the guy who goes back and forth for pages and pages with EVERYONE ALL THE TIME. you literally have no room.

This, but fixed for accuracy.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Oh I think it was probably worth it. If you're going to trade for him and take a chance on him, you needed to see him in the summer league. I have no problem with finding out if he can play. He can't. The only person on that roster more frustrating than he is (that we actually give a shit about) is Ayres.

This is a reasonable take. If he continues to stink it up in the summer league, and they keep him on board, he must really be killing it in practice, or something. If he's just having a slump, it's a bad time to be having it.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Ok, lets start over.

Here is my thesis: Austin Daye's 3pt numbers appear good on the surface. However, they are a product of one hot shooting performance that sufficiently skews the rest of his season averages with the Spurs. When that one game is taken out of the equation, Daye actually shot very poorly last season from three (31.5%). His 2pt numbers are no better with sub-40 percentages. While sample size is clearly a factor, the nicest thing that I can say about his shooting is that hes "inconsistent".

Assessment: For a "shooter" prospect he is terribly inconsistent. The fact that his shooting woes continue in SL shouldn't surprise anybody. He wasn't knocking shots down during the regular season with the exception of one game that has people weak in the knees and ready to defend him as some purported dead-eye.

You have rephrased your cherry picking. It is the equivalent of me saying he has shot much better during these two summer league games by ignoring the one REALLY bad stretch he had. He is shooting very poorly, and putting himself in a predicament. We can agree on that. Goodnight.

[Obstructed_View]

This is a reasonable take. If he continues to stink it up in the summer league, and they keep him on board, he must really be killing it in practice, or something. If he's just having a slump, it's a bad time to be having it.

I think this whole "killing it in practice" or "stinking it up in practice" thing is massively overblown, particularly when it happens during the regular season, when the team doesn't practice much. Anyone who looks at Daye sees he has an NBA body and just about every skill you could want, and every team thinks they can figure out the right combination to turn him into a player. Thus far, he's a poor man's Derrick Coleman. You just can't get him to do anything besides coast on his talent. If the Spurs keep him onboard, it's because there are no better options out there, and they're already paying him. They've got bigger reclamation projects on their resume than Daye, so every day they keep him is another chance to turn it around.

[Obstructed_View]

You have rephrased your cherry picking. It is the equivalent of me saying he has shot much better during these two summer league games by ignoring the one REALLY bad stretch he had. He is shooting very poorly, and putting himself in a predicament. We can agree on that. Goodnight.

That's wrong. If a guy has one hot shooting game, you can throw it out if he never does it again. Gary Neal did it in summer league because he's a stud shooter. Anthony Tolliver did it in summer league because he got lucky.

[Darkwaters]

You have rephrased your cherry picking. It is the equivalent of me saying he has shot much better during these two summer league games by ignoring the one REALLY bad stretch he had. He is shooting very poorly, and putting himself in a predicament. We can agree on that. Goodnight.

Are you seriously that dense? This is exactly what I've been saying from the beginning. No change.

I'm done with you. I've actually laid out data and numbers. All you've wanted to argue is semantics in order to try and save face (as I predicted earlier).

It's pretty clear, we can point to one game in the last year where Daye shot well. Other than that, through the regular season and SL, he has shot poorly. Quite clearly that one good game is an outlier and very much atypical. What he consistently brings to the table is poor shooting - regardless of the level of competition.

[$pursDynasty]

Okay, so today's game was a fucking abortion. They tinkered with the lineup from game 1 to try to get a little more impact and it was an unmitigated disaster. Both teams started the game shooting long jumpers. The Cavs made theirs, the Spurs did not. The Cavs began to take advantage inside as the Spurs tried to scramble. The Spurs continued trying to dig out of a hole all at once. I couldn't believe how often they would just settle for jumpers, but it put a knot in my stomach to watch. I thought I heard Dick Motta laughing at one point.

My conclusion from this game: I'm glad as hell there's no four-point line.

There are no three point shooters on the summer league team. I would much rather see the coaches tell them that they aren't allowed to shoot threes anymore and see what happens.

Austin Daye
He seems to think this league was convened so he could showcase himself. On a team that prides itself on finding good shots and sharing the ball, I'm unsure how he thinks he did that by going Summer-league Kobe on the Cavs. I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that the Spurs signed Matt Bonner during the game. /sarcasm

Kyle Anderson
Basically a forgotten man in this game, he did his work against Wiggins. He didn't get blown by, destroyed, dunked on, or fouled out. He got a shot blocked, but he also had a brilliant steal on Wiggins in the open court. His touches were few and far between. I'm not in love with his shot selection early in the game, but, bad as it was, he was the only guy looking to score inside. I can hardly blame him for not passing the ball because most of the guys on the floor seemed to think they were playing Pop-A-Shot. As I mentioned after game one, I really like his physicality. He got whistled for dropping a shoulder into Wiggins. It was one of the bright spots in the game. He had a big matchup and was equal to the task. Despite the physicality, he has a very even keel emotionally. He really is a good pick for the Spurs, by far the best they could have expected from that draft position.

Bryce Cotton
Okay, he's not a point guard. I really thought he was a better floor general last year in college, but he doesn't have good vision, and the offense was a trainwreck with him in charge. I still like him though. He got his ass torched by Cherry, it's true, but I don't think it was all his fault. What I liked: at one point, Cherry was taunting him, and Cotton was smart enough to just run the offense he was given instead of trying to one-up the guy. I admire that discipline.

DeShaun Thomas
I wouldn't normally waste space writing about him, but he just worked so hard trying to bring the team back, he deserves a mention. This is what I saw and liked about Thomas since he was at Ohio State. He's got a lot of pride, and he's a guy who will just put on his hard hat and go to work when it comes time to do it. He's so tough, and he's clutch. I like players who are more likely to make a jumper when they have to or who step in and make a big play when the team needs it. Thomas is that guy, and that's why I liked him last year too. I was told then that I have to face the reality that, despite that ability, he's too bulky and unathletic to be a swingman, and he's too small to be a power forward, which is really his natural position. In college, he was just a guy who managed to make good things happen, which is why his points per possession were through the roof. I think of Daye as Chris Sims, and Thomas as Major Applewhite. One of them is the guy with all the upside, the other one is the one who finds a way to win. I just like watching him go to work. I think he'll get another camp invite, and I still have my fingers crossed.
obstructed what is your view on JaMychal Green? I only ask because I am starting to think that JG might be a better fit on our roster than Austin Daye.

[Obstructed_View]

Ayres is the real head scratcher. He's among the very worst rotation players the Spurs have had over the last decade or so.

To his credit, he does a much better job of playing within himself when he's with the Spurs. He's not careless with the ball and he doesn't take risks on defense. Summer league is a pretty good time for him to just see what he can do and see what he needs to work on. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff has told him to do exactly that and not worry if it's ugly.

[Darkwaters]

To his credit, he does a much better job of playing within himself when he's with the Spurs. He's not careless with the ball and he doesn't take risks on defense. Summer league is a pretty good time for him to just see what he can do and see what he needs to work on. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff has told him to do exactly that and not worry if it's ugly.

It seems pretty clear that the coaching staff has given him specific guidance and wants him to assert himself. Otherwise whats the point of him even playing SL? Hes a vet. You don't send vets out there unless you actually want them to gain some certain experience.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Are you seriously that dense? This is exactly what I've been saying from the beginning. No change.

I'm done with you. I've actually laid out data and numbers. All you've wanted to argue is semantics in order to try and save face (as I predicted earlier).

It's pretty clear, we can point to one game in the last year where Daye shot well. Other than that, through the regular season and SL, he has shot poorly. Quite clearly that one good game is an outlier and very much atypical. What he consistently brings to the table is poor shooting - regardless of the level of competition.

I will make note of this as one of the greatest lectures on statistics I've witnessed.

[Mel_13]

To his credit, he does a much better job of playing within himself when he's with the Spurs. He's not careless with the ball and he doesn't take risks on defense. Summer league is a pretty good time for him to just see what he can do and see what he needs to work on. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff has told him to do exactly that and not worry if it's ugly.

Yeah, I wasn't basing that estimation on these SL games. I assume that he's there to work on specific aspects of his game and he deserves credit for his willingness to go to the summer league at this point in his career. His performance last season was just terrible and didn't improve over the course of 82 games, at least IMO.

[Obstructed_View]

obstructed what is your view on JaMychal Green? I only ask because I am starting to think that JG might be a better fit on our roster than Austin Daye.

I like him. He's a good defender, a good energy guy, and he has a nose for the ball. He seemed to settle the team down with his defense, which seems odd to say. I think he gets a camp invite no matter what since he missed out on it due to injury before. I'd much rather have a team full of JaMychal Greens than a team full of Austin Dayes.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I wasn't basing that estimation on these SL games. I assume that he's there to work on specific aspects of his game and he deserves credit for his willingness to go to the summer league at this point in his career. His performance last season was just terrible and didn't improve over the course of 82 games, at least IMO.

Nah, I'm pretty much with you on that. I've spent a lot of text on this forum bashing him. He's just not very good, but willingness to go to SL shows that he's a good pro, just like playing smart when he's needed. You sort of can't ask much more of a guy with limited ability. These are the best basketball players in the world, after all.

[Obstructed_View]

It seems pretty clear that the coaching staff has given him specific guidance and wants him to assert himself. Otherwise whats the point of him even playing SL? Hes a vet. You don't send vets out there unless you actually want them to gain some certain experience.
Can't fault him for his effort, tbh. Nice to have a member of the big team on the SL squad for a lot of reasons.

[TheyCallMePro]

Unbelievable that our summer league game isn't on NBAtv tomorrow. 5:30 central time vs the Pelicans. Were all gunna have to go to some obscure link that will lag like hell and be full of shitty ads that we'll have to keep closing and the quality will be shit. And it will freeze.

Can't wait.

[Chinook]

I just can't believe Ayres' shot's gone. That just wrecks his ability to fit on this roster. He pretty much has everything else he needs to be a good PF. Except hands, of course.

[objective]

Don't really understand why Richards is even there if he's going to get dnp'd. It's not a long summer league. Maybe he's been a bad attitude guy behind the scenes, maybe they're just seeing if he'll crack, I don't know.

It's also fairly annoying for Bertans and LJC practicing but not playing. Just from the standpoint of a viewer. So little of interest beyond Anderson. I've seen Bertans, he would be impressive against these teams. Maybe that's a problem, maybe he'd look so good the spurs would feel pressure to sign him :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Unbelievable that our summer league game isn't on NBAtv tomorrow. 5:30 central time vs the Pelicans. Were all gunna have to go to some obscure link that will lag like hell and be full of shitty ads that we'll have to keep closing and the quality will be shit. And it will freeze.

Can't wait.

I think I'm going to just break down and spend the five bucks to watch it on my iPad, especially if it's going to be difficult for everyone else to see it. I've managed to avoid giving any money to the NBA for ten years or so now. I guess it's time. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Don't really understand why Richards is even there if he's going to get dnp'd. It's not a long summer league.
It's probably a good strategy. Richards is the poster child for coasting on talent, and he's done it for years. Time to show him that he's not going to just get handed playing time. Hope he makes the most of the minutes he's given for a change.

[raybies]

Spotlight on Kyle Anderson against the Cavs.
http://spurshomer.blogspot.com/2014/07/summer-league-spotlight-kyle-anderson_13.html

Thoughts

Jeff Ayers: I don't even think he would be dominant on a D-League team. He's getting outworked in summer league and looks like he doesn't belong. I wonder if anyone in the league would even take him unless we paid him to. I would much rather have an open roster spot than to call him depth.

Austin Daye: I'm not impressed with his play. He seems like a poor man's Kyle Anderson. I would much rather have his shots going to Kyle and his distribution. If the Spurs were auditioning Austin and Jeff, I doubt anyone would be interested. Perhaps, he's just having a bad shooting stretch. The troubling part is that he is getting quality looks.

DeShaun Thomas: DeShaun has been balling. He has been the most consistent player so far. I would much rather have him taking Austin's spot. He seems ready and he does have an NBA skill -- he can score. He's very effective and it's been two straight summer leagues. Last year he started off strong but finished on low, so if he shows he can finish strong he might have a shot at a camp invite. If we really cared about winning in summer league this guy would be starting instead of Daye.

[littlecoyotecoin]

That's wrong. If a guy has one hot shooting game, you can throw it out if he never does it again. Gary Neal did it in summer league because he's a stud shooter. Anthony Tolliver did it in summer league because he got lucky.

It's not wrong. You may not like it, but it's not wrong. We were discussing Daye's shooting in the regular season, especially his 3 point shooting. Dark wants to throw out 34% of the data because it doesn't support his conclusion. You don't get to call 34% of the data an outlier. That would be frowned upon.

There is merit to what you are describing with Neal and Tolliver shooting poorly but actually being "good" or shooting well but actually being "poor" and making a faulty conclusion in those instances are described by Type I and II errors... But this can get really boring in a hurry.

[Obstructed_View]

It's not wrong. You may not like it, but it's not wrong.

I don't have a dog in this race, so what I like isn't a factor. Please understand that it's not personal to me in any way. The fact remains that you're wrong. You can't make a correct judgment off one hot shooting game, but you can make a more-accurate judgment if he never manages to have a subsequent one. I don't have a degree in math, but I understand how basketball works.

[littlecoyotecoin]

You're making a different argument. You are right about that other argument.

[montgod]

Better question when is last time Spurs cut a player they were on the hook for? SJax?

[Mel_13]

Better question when is last time Spurs cut a player they were on the hook for? SJax?

Malcolm Thomas in January of this year.

[ElNono]

I think unless there's some possibility for a trade, Ayres will play out his contract with the Spurs. I'm not thrilled about it, but I think it has to do with being a relatively cheap contract, knows his role as minute burner, and the Spurs will need big bodies to play due to Diaw and Splitter playing in the Worlds, and likely needing some extra rest during the RS... with Bonner back and Ayres, I think the Spurs are still short one more guy to burn minutes.

[anakha]

Daye might be in more danger of being cut than Ayers.

[Darkwaters]

Unbelievable that our summer league game isn't on NBAtv tomorrow. 5:30 central time vs the Pelicans. Were all gunna have to go to some obscure link that will lag like hell and be full of shitty ads that we'll have to keep closing and the quality will be shit. And it will freeze.

Can't wait.

They're showing it at like 3AM the following day. I have it set to record.

[Darkwaters]

I don't have a dog in this race, so what I like isn't a factor. Please understand that it's not personal to me in any way. The fact remains that you're wrong. You can't make a correct judgment off one hot shooting game, but you can make a more-accurate judgment if he never manages to have a subsequent one. I don't have a degree in math, but I understand how basketball works.

Don't waste your breath

He wants to argue semantics. The truth is that Daye has had one good shooting performance since he became a Spur. Has he replicated it since? No. Not in the regular season. Not in the playoffs (he never played). Not in Summer League. Eventually he probably will have a hot shooting game again. But until he can string them together with more regularity I don't see the point. His one main "skill" is so inconsistent that it is completely unreliable.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Don't waste your breath

He wants to argue semantics. The truth is that Daye has had one good shooting performance since he became a Spur. Has he replicated it since? No. Not in the regular season. Not in the playoffs (he never played). Not in Summer League. Eventually he probably will have a hot shooting game again. But until he can string them together with more regularity I don't see the point. His one main "skill" is so inconsistent that it is completely unreliable.

You wanted me to address your numbers, and I point out your ridiculous flaw, but you continue to dismiss it as semantics. You've got plenty of semantics floating around, too, like what is a "hot" game and what is not. There were 29 data points, and you wanted to go through them, parsing the ones that don't support your conclusion. Classic flaw. It is a small sample, and small samples can lead to faulty conclusions more often than large samples, but that doesn't mean you get to throw out 34% of the small sample to prove your point. Unfortunately, when we are talking about his regular season shooting, that is all we have to work with.

[montgod]

Malcolm Thomas in January of this year.
To clarify....a player with a contract over a million, not the normal cheap guys they sign for weeks on end and eventually finalize.

[ChumpDumper]

Unbelievable that our summer league game isn't on NBAtv tomorrow. 5:30 central time vs the Pelicans. Were all gunna have to go to some obscure link that will lag like hell and be full of shitty ads that we'll have to keep closing and the quality will be shit. And it will freeze.

Can't wait.If you can't afford $5, you might have more pressing issues.

[Darkwaters]

You wanted me to address your numbers, and I point out your ridiculous flaw, but you continue to dismiss it as semantics. You've got plenty of semantics floating around, too, like what is a "hot" game and what is not. There were 29 data points, and you wanted to go through them, parsing the ones that don't support your conclusion. Classic flaw. It is a small sample, and small samples can lead to faulty conclusions more often than large samples, but that doesn't mean you get to throw out 34% of the small sample to prove your point. Unfortunately, when we are talking about his regular season shooting, that is all we have to work with.

You're looking at it as a series of shots. 29 shots.

I'm looking at it as a series of games. 14 games.

I tossed out 1 game, or 7% of the data.

My point is that through 13 games, or 93% of the data, he was only able to shoot 31.5%. In other words, he consistently shoots poorly.

And again, even without eliminating any data, he only shot 38% from the field in all 14 games, and all 55 shots that he took. Hence, the assertion that the statement that he "shot well for us in the RS," while subjective, is wrong.

I'll go even further, for his career he is a 35% 3pt shooter. Not a terrible number honestly, but not a deadeye shooter either. His career FG% is just over 40%. Thats terrible. Especially for a guy that is mostly a spot-up shooter.

[littlecoyotecoin]

By the way, he shot 41.3% and 42.9% in college from the 3 point line for two years. Large samples, and very much in line with the 41% he shot in the small sample with The Spurs. Of course, three feet further, and 5 years of maturity, so not a direct comparison, but relevant if you want to start looking outside the 29 shots in the regular season. He really has only been inconsistent between college and The Spurs. When on shitty teams, and in summer league.

[littlecoyotecoin]

You're looking at it as a series of shots. 29 shots.

I'm looking at it as a series of games. 14 games.

I tossed out 1 game, or 7% of the data.

My point is that through 13 games, or 93% of the data, he was only able to shoot 31.5%. In other words, he consistently shoots poorly.

And again, even without eliminating any data, he only shot 38% from the field in all 14 games, and all 55 shots that he took. Hence, the assertion that the statement that he "shot well for us in the RS," while subjective, is wrong.

I'll go even further, for his career he is a 35% 3pt shooter. Not a terrible number honestly, but not a deadeye shooter either. His career FG% is just over 40%. Thats terrible. Especially for a guy that is mostly a spot-up shooter.

His 41% shooting doesn't differentiate when one game ends and another begins. Only you did that, to justify your conclusion.

[littlecoyotecoin]

You're looking at it as a series of shots. 29 shots.

I'm looking at it as a series of games. 14 games.

I tossed out 1 game, or 7% of the data.

My point is that through 13 games, or 93% of the data, he was only able to shoot 31.5%. In other words, he consistently shoots poorly.

And again, even without eliminating any data, he only shot 38% from the field in all 14 games, and all 55 shots that he took. Hence, the assertion that the statement that he "shot well for us in the RS," while subjective, is wrong.

I'll go even further, for his career he is a 35% 3pt shooter. Not a terrible number honestly, but not a deadeye shooter either. His career FG% is just over 40%. Thats terrible. Especially for a guy that is mostly a spot-up shooter.

LMAO, 7% of the data. You win.

[Darkwaters]

By the way, he shot 41.3% and 42.9% in college from the 3 point line for two years. Large samples, and very much in line with the 41% he shot in the small sample with The Spurs. Of course, three feet further, and 5 years of maturity, so not a direct comparison, but relevant if you want to start looking outside the 29 shots in the regular season. He really has only been inconsistent between college and The Spurs. When on shitty teams, and in summer league.

Noted. But again, as you say, not a great comparison as the line is shorter. Plus, the quality of competition is much higher at the NBA level - especially with NBA length and level athletes that you don't see at Gonzaga.

The biggest problem with Daye is that he doesn't consistently get rebounds, assists, steals or blocks. Despite his good length, his defense is well below average. His FT shooting is good, but not great (not that he gets to the line). Really the only thing he brings is shooting. And as I've listed, since he came to the NBA hes very "meh" in even that department. He was drafted because of those numbers that you listed from college. But since college he has been incapable of consistently performing and shooting to that standard. Just look at his games played since he entered the league:

09-10: 69 (Detroit)
10-11: 72 (Detroit)
11-12: 41 (Detroit)
12-13: 55 (24 in Detroit, 31 in Memphis)
13-14: 22 (8 in Toronto, 14 in SA)

There is an obvious decline in his games played. He has not reached his potential, and is little more than an after thought. That obviously creates a shortfall in data for analysis. But his inability to get on the court is perhaps the most telling stat. He sucks. At best hes a fringe NBA player. More likely, he needs to move to Turkey or Spain.

[spurraider21]

whats sad is we could have easily been off the hook on Daye... we knew we were stuck with Ayres, but keeping Daye was just dumb, given the precious amount of roster spots we had left.

[Darkwaters]

Whatever man, this is a pointless argument.

I know you're not really defending Daye himself. I don't know anybody that really could. Hes not a very good player no matter how you slice it.

We have a disagreement on the numbers. Whatever. Lets just agree to disagree.

[lowdown]

Not sure why there's any debate going on in regards to today's game. I agree with Darkwaters, Obstructed_View, & Mel_13. The coyote and the chump are just arguing for attention. Daye was terrible today and Ayres was worst. I don't think it's that big of a deal if they wind up on the opening day roster but I would rather see the development of Deshaun Thomas (& maybe) JaMychal Green if they had a chance to work with the coaching staff. Anderson isn't a mind-blowing player but he is so intriguing. He seems like he has more of the upside of being a tweener and with the Spurs system and coaching, might turn out to be a heck of a player. Of course, instead of Daye & Ayres, I much rather those spots go to Baynes & some other notable free agent (or David Bertans or even Bryce Cotton).

[Kasen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZXTFIUt3es&feature=youtu.be

[Baam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZXTFIUt3es&feature=youtu.be

What I like about Deshaun Thomas is the combination of outside shooting and post game inside... For a scorer he's pretty damn complete... Imo he can keep this up he should def make the roaster, they shouldn't have garanteed Daye's deal...

[spurraider21]

What I like about Deshaun Thomas is the combination of outside shooting and post game inside... For a scorer he's pretty damn complete... Imo he can keep this up he should def make the roaster, they shouldn't have garanteed Daye's deal...
:bang

i think we play the sixers twice though, so Daye can have a couple of solid games

[anakha]

What I like about Deshaun Thomas is the combination of outside shooting and post game inside... For a scorer he's pretty damn complete... Imo he can keep this up he should def make the roaster, they shouldn't have garanteed Daye's deal...

As per the discussion earlier, it's possible that PATFO saw Daye's deal as small enough that guaranteeing it then waiving him later on would not be an issue.

This is all speculation, of course. :p:

[Mel_13]

To clarify....a player with a contract over a million, not the normal cheap guys they sign for weeks on end and eventually finalize.

Thomas' contract was finalized. Not any practical difference between Thomas last season and Daye this season, if we're talking about waiving guaranteed contracts.

[Ice009]

What's the rest of the Summer League schedule? How many games are left? Not sure if I want to pay the $5 to watch these guys play ;).

Also, do they have a tournament or anything at the end of it?

[TheGoldStandard]

None of these guys are ready for prime time and that's a telling sign for Ayres and Daye. Daye can't consistently hit shots when he's open and his cement shoes makes him a liability on the perimeter. Ayres is just total suck and garbage. Thomas has improved some since last year but still slow to get the ball off and still cement shoes. Kyle needs a year of work both in Austin and San Antonio and he'll probably be flip flopping back and forth throughout the year. Waiting on Baynes to resign that qualifying offer, hopefully Pop will give him more minutes if he does and if not then we need to go look at Ed Davis or a trade for some serviceable big. I was hoping Houston would drop Montejunas .

[Darkwaters]

Whats most concerning is that if either Ayres or Daye were total unknowns that had just walked onto this SL team, neither of them would have moved my interest needle at all with their performances. They don't look in any way intriguing - probably not even worth a Training Camp invite (which is a small thing to give up).

...and these are two players that we owe significant guaranteed money to. Ayres signed a multi-year deal with a part of the MLE last year. Holy crap!

[Obstructed_View]

What's the rest of the Summer League schedule? How many games are left? Not sure if I want to pay the $5 to watch these guys play ;).

Also, do they have a tournament or anything at the end of it?

I just bought it on iTunes. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Obstructed_View]

What I like about Deshaun Thomas is the combination of outside shooting and post game inside... For a scorer he's pretty damn complete... Imo he can keep this up he should def make the roaster, they shouldn't have garanteed Daye's deal...

I love those things about him. He's tough and has a good awareness of when to impose his will. Only trouble is he's got no game above the rim, which makes playing his position REALLY tough against the best athletes in the world. If he were bigger, he'd be a power forward everyone's talking about. If he wants to be an NBA player at his size, he's going to have to become elite at something, be it shooting or rebounding.

[Obstructed_View]

Whats most concerning is that if either Ayres or Daye were total unknowns that had just walked onto this SL team, neither of them would have moved my interest needle at all with their performances. They don't look in any way intriguing - probably not even worth a Training Camp invite (which is a small thing to give up).

...and these are two players that we owe significant guaranteed money to. Ayres signed a multi-year deal with a part of the MLE last year. Holy crap!

Good news is he doesn't hurt anything being on the team. Used in spots, he absorbs minutes and does no real damage. Expensive? Probably, but not RJ expensive.

Daye costs so little that, as a fan, I could give a shit. The Spurs are paying to see him in summer league. It's an electric bill to them. No biggie.

[Dex]

Daye costs so little that, as a fan, I could give a shit. The Spurs are paying to see him in summer league. It's an electric bill to them. No biggie.

If I bought a ticket for that movie, I'd want my money back so far.

[TheGoldStandard]

Jeff Ayres is a waste of a roster spot no matter how little he is getting paid. That fool should he cut and he should he flagged by every team to never play in the nba again.

[TheCerebral1]

Jeff Ayres is a waste of a roster spot no matter how little he is getting paid. That fool should be cut and he should he flagged by every team to never play in the nba again.

I agree with this verbatem. Ed Davis >>> Jeff PenderAyers.

[wildbill2u]

Anyone else liking the play of Morris?

I'm beginning to watch him with interest. He can shoot.

[Obstructed_View]

If I bought a ticket for that movie, I'd want my money back so far.

You don't get your money back for a shitty movie you decided to see, you just leave the theater early.

[ChumpDumper]

At this point the unsigned SL players that have probably impressed the staff doing things they would probably be able to do in the NBA would be Green and Morris -- though both need to show more range on their shots.

Cotton has enough raw talent to get in training camp and on the Toros.

Thomas is a classic tweener which is a shame.

I think Daye and Ayres' presence in SL is proof enough they are on the bubble, guaranteed money or not. It's just not that money and the Spurs are flush right now and seemingly anxious to get some cheap projects they can potentially keep into the cap space era next summer.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm beginning to watch him with interest. He can shoot.

He was beyond awful against Cleveland. He certainly can't defend worth a shit.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

You don't get your money back for a shitty movie you decided to see, you just leave the theater early.

That is why I always confer with IMDB before I go see any movie at the theater nowadays...

[wildbill2u]

Daye keeps giving glimmers of raw talent which make me say, "Damn, He's 6'11 and if he could do that well and with consistency..." Like making a spin move from outside the arc and driving to the hoop--where he misses a defended short jumper. Or he picks up 9 rebounds in 28 mins without seeming to be in the mix under the basket.

There's talent there--and that's what made him the 15th pick in the draft and intrigues coaches. I think every coach thinks he can mold him into a good NBA player.

[Obstructed_View]

That is why I always confer with IMDB before I go see any movie at the theater nowadays...
:lol Point is, the Spurs were willing to pay a little bit to see if Daye could play. He cain't. Not a huge loss.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

:lol Point is, the Spurs were willing to pay a little bit to see if Daye could play. He cain't. Not a huge loss.

LOL Daye is straight up dollar movies...

[Obstructed_View]

Daye keeps giving glimmers of raw talent which make me say, "Damn, He's 6'11 and if he could do that well and with consistency..." Like making a spin move from outside the arc and driving to the hoop--where he misses a defended short jumper. Or he picks up 9 rebounds in 28 mins without seeming to be in the mix under the basket.

There's talent there--and that's what made him the 15th pick in the draft and intrigues coaches. I think every coach thinks he can mold him into a good NBA player.

Can't imagine watching him practice in person. Scouts probably have visions of Kevin Durant 2.0. First one to make him care and give him a backbone wins the supplemental lottery.

[jsandiego]

If you want to dismiss the one "outlier" game, then shouldn't you also dismiss games where he's playing garbage minutes too?

Last season he played in 6 games where he logged at least 10 minutes of action:
3 were productive:
(28 min, 8/13, 6/10 3FG), (11 min, 4/7, 3/4 3FG), (14 min, 4/6, 1/2 3FG)

3 were terrible:
(14 min, 1/5, 0/2), (17 min, 0/2, 0/1), (14 min, 1/7, 0/3)

So the guy is inconsistent, and had a few flashes of potential. Seems to me that's about all we can derive from his stats because it's such a small sample -- all of it.

[xmas1997]

At this point the unsigned SL players that have probably impressed the staff doing things they would probably be able to do in the NBA would be Green and Morris -- though both need to show more range on their shots.

Cotton has enough raw talent to get in training camp and on the Toros.

Thomas is a classic tweener which is a shame.

I think Daye and Ayres' presence in SL is proof enough they are on the bubble, guaranteed money or not. It's just not that money and the Spurs are flush right now and seemingly anxious to get some cheap projects they can potentially keep into the cap space era next summer.

We are in total agreement about this.

[spurraider21]

:lol Point is, the Spurs were willing to pay a little bit to see if Daye could play. He cain't. Not a huge loss.
if that's the case then i'm totally cool with it, i couldn't care less about Holt's pocket :lol... but if it turns out that they refuse to dump him due to the $, then its infuriating that they didn't get out of it earlier

[littlecoyotecoin]

You're looking at it as a series of shots. 29 shots.

I'm looking at it as a series of games. 14 games.

I tossed out 1 game, or 7% of the data.

My point is that through 13 games, or 93% of the data, he was only able to shoot 31.5%. In other words, he consistently shoots poorly.

And again, even without eliminating any data, he only shot 38% from the field in all 14 games, and all 55 shots that he took. Hence, the assertion that the statement that he "shot well for us in the RS," while subjective, is wrong.

I'll go even further, for his career he is a 35% 3pt shooter. Not a terrible number honestly, but not a deadeye shooter either. His career FG% is just over 40%. Thats terrible. Especially for a guy that is mostly a spot-up shooter.

This is why I try to stay out of math discussions. They're tedious and boring. You have so many errors in your math and logic that I could not address them at 12:30 in the morning. The other poster that suggests that I (and ChumpDumper, for some reason, I didn't follow that part...) am addressing these errors in order to seek attention doesn't understand the quote:

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


-Edmund Burke (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edmund_burke.html)

Nor:

Someone told me that each equation I included in the book would halve the sales. I therefore resolved not to have any equations at all. In the end, however, I did put in one equation, Einstein (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein)'s famous equation, http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/3/3/733a1857c551ba67e3f9edf771a9efd6.png. I hope that this will not scare off half of my potential readers.

-Stephen Hawking

I am no Edmund Burke, nor Stephen Hawking. But, they're smart. If I were seeking attention, I would definitely not be using math to do it (Hawking). And, your understanding is so poor, but promoted as legitimate, that I just can't let it stand unchallenged (Burke). While your intent is not to be harmful, it can never be considered good to spread ignorance.


We must first journey back to the original discussion. When things aren't going well for someone, they often tend to stray from the topic at hand. The discussion was Daye's 3 point shooting. You went back and attempted to parse his stats in order to try to prove that he didn't REALLY shoot 41%. An asinine pretense to begin with, as the numbers speak for themselves. Also, you take my quote in reference to "...he shot well for us..." regarding his 3 point shooting percentage, and attempt to extrapolate that to an argument that his overall shooting was poor, so my statement is in error. That's an entirely different argument. I was referring to his 3 point shooting (41%), and because the numbers speak for themselves, you attempt to grey the lines to draw in his other flaws. He has flaws. Again, not the discussion. Moving the goal-posts, etc.

So, back to the 3 point percentage discussion, when challenged about throwing out his "best game" as an outlier, you give the above argument, that you did not throw out 34% of the data, only 7%. If we were both you, you would be calling me a name, here, for doing something so ignorant, like you did earlier (dense), when confronted with your own ignorance of the situation. You don't even understand what you don't understand. You said you are justified in throwing out 1 game, which is only 7% of the data, then you recalculate his NEW shooting percentage. Do you know how you calculated his new shooting percentage? I do. You used (total 3 point makes/total 3 point attempts) to yield your 31.6%. But, that is exactly the OPPOSITE of what you are claiming that you are doing. That is throwing out the exact 34% of the data that you said you aren't throwing out.

Now, let's calculate 3 point percentage the way you WANT to calculate it, by throwing out ONE GAME, the Philly game. You would have to then look at EACH INDIVIDUAL GAME as your data point. Of course, no one calculates 3 point shooting percentage this way, but it is what you were wanting to do, but you didn't even do your own method correctly. His remaining 13 games would then be weighted equally (weighting them equally is what allows you to throw out an outlier, counting each game as a trial). His 14 games had 3%s of: 1, .6, 0, .75, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, and .5, and four with no attempts. Here's where you take a really random and screwy tack and throw out the outlier .6. .6 is not an outlier, using your methodology, to begin with. 1 and 0 are the outliers, but it doesn't really matter, because no one calculates 3% this way, anyway. It would be moronic to weight the 100% shooting game where he only took 2 shots, equally with the game game where he took 10 shots. You acknowledge this about the 2/2 game against The Heat (that it can't be weighted the same, because it was only two shots), but then you weight all 14 games equally when throwing out his game against Philly. You simply can't do that. And, especially bad, after you DO weight each game equally, to throw out the good game, then you revert back to calculating his 3% the way everyone always does, further confounding the issue:

(total 3 point makes/total 3 point attempts) = 31.6% giving weight to each SHOT and SHOT ATTEMPT, not weight to each game. (You didn't round correctly, but I'm not about picking nits, here. I make arithmetic errors, too. Your other errors are systematic and much more egregious.)

Throwing out a game, and recalculating each game as an individual data point, his new 3% would be: 1.85/9 = 20.6%.

That is a very dumb way to calculate 3%, and that is why no one does it that way. Heck, you didn't even do it that way, and it was your creation. When they DO break down 3% by year, they do not then weight them equally when calculating career 3 point percentage. They do (total 3 point makes/total 3 point attempts).

Now, let's backtrack to the "outlier" game. You have to carefully determine what an outlier is before you just get to disregard it. You did none of that. I don't blame you, that's complex. Also, you don't get to just throw out outliers on the RIGHT side of where you think the mean should be. You also have to throw out any outliers in extreme standard deviation positions to the LEFT of the mean, as well. You, of course, did not throw out any of his outliers in the far left tail. Why wouldn't you do that? It would hurt your argument, of course. Your decision on what was an outlier was arbitrary and capricious. Not allowed. You shouldn't have been throwing out ANY of the data, anyway, but even if you do, you did it wrong.

I guess that's all I have to say regarding your cherry picking of your data. Obstructed View took a much better tack in his argument. He just appealed to authority, namely his own. He said, he doesn't know math, but said that he knows basketball. When someone appeals to authority, and that authority is themselves, you can't really argue with them. That's what's often referred to as an opinion. And, we all are entitled to an opinion. Obstructed View's opinion is just the right one. But, when you use math to support yourself, and it's really bad math, you don't have much of a defense.

+++++++++++++++++++



If you want to say that he is a horrible shooter inside the arc, etc. Different arguments. His numbers are not great. I don't think I would care to mount much of a defense, there. Could be his weight hurting him. Bad shot selection, etc. But, I don't think it's his shooting touch. I think his 3 point shooting at Gonzaga, and some of it in Detroit, is probably a closer reflection of what his true 3 point percentage will be over the long haul with us, as opposed to what he has shot in the last two games, as a rookie in Detroit, or as a spare being shuffled in and out of Toronto and Memphis. The fact that the line is 3 feet further in the NBA is mitigated by a more mature physique. He will get wide open looks, here. And, if he is covered by the power forward, all the better, because that's also what he would be in for. Whether his numbers will equal those numbers from Gonzaga and Detroit, those are the large samples, and the large samples is where he actually shot higher percentages. If you have to pick between the small sample percentages or the large ones, we would rather look at the large samples. I don't know, but I seriously doubt that 3 feet drops him into the 20% ranges, from 41-42%. That would be very unrealistic to expect. You can argue that it is competition level that is causing the drop, but these last two summer league games have been pretty wide open looks against pretty bad competition, so I don't know if the competition being poor is having much of an effect on the percentage, and he has demonstrated some good shooting from the 3 point line outside of summer league against NBA competition. As a matter of fact, his second year with Detroit was against NBA competition, and it was the largest pro sample of 3 point shooting, and the second highest 3 point percentage at right around what he shot for us: 40-41%. His second largest sample of shots was his highest shooting percentage at, again, right around what he shot for us: 41-42%. So, if anything, when he is in a more stable situation and is getting regular minutes, his shooting percentage is at its highest...as a rookie, or when he was benched, and shuffled around the league, those are the situations when his shooting percentage from the 3 point line begins to suffer. So, all evidence still points to him being a good shooter from behind the arc, despite the two turds he has put up in summer league, thus far.

After reviewing his career number, despite all the shuffling around, you even admit that 35% isn't too shabby. I didn't call it 'dead-eye', but like Belinelli, I could see him possibly making improvement in our system, if he gets regular looks. It happens to a lot of bad shooters, much less one like Daye that has some flashes of brilliance in his shooting career. He shot 62/138 = 44.9% the year he was shipped out of Detroit, and finished in Toronto. I doubt they shipped him out because he couldn't shoot the three that year. He was 52.5% that year in Detroit before leaving. They probably, primarily, shipped him due to other flaws.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Good news is he doesn't hurt anything being on the team. Used in spots, he absorbs minutes and does no real damage. Expensive? Probably, but not RJ expensive.

Daye costs so little that, as a fan, I could give a shit. The Spurs are paying to see him in summer league. It's an electric bill to them. No biggie.


if that's the case then i'm totally cool with it, i couldn't care less about Holt's pocket :lol... but if it turns out that they refuse to dump him due to the $, then its infuriating that they didn't get out of it earlier

Chinook recently pointed out we cut someone and they were owed even more than Daye (Thomas). Someone else also said that the NBA pays part of the salary if a team cuts a minimum salary guy. That surprised me, but it appears to be true. So, I doubt that they are too worried about the $750k if they don't think that he will work out. He was owed 250k of 1 million, anyway. So, it is only an additional $750k, minus whatever the league might pay. Mel or Chinook, or the other guy that told me about league reimbursement will have to elaborate on that. I am confident that they will make a good decision. They hit more than they miss.

[Seventyniner]

Chinook recently pointed out we cut someone and they were owed even more than Daye (Thomas). Someone else also said that the NBA pays part of the salary if a team cuts a minimum salary guy. That surprised me, but it appears to be true. So, I doubt that they are too worried about the $750k if they don't think that he will work out. He was owed 250k of 1 million, anyway. So, it is only an additional $750k, minus whatever the league might pay. Mel or Chinook, or the other guy that told me about league reimbursement will have to elaborate on that. I am confident that they will make a good decision. They hit more than they miss.

The league reimburses teams for any minimum contract for the amount that it exceeds the rookie minimum (the min increases with experience in the league). So if the vet minimum for player A is $1.2M and the league rookie min is $400k, the league pays for $800k of the salary. The point is so that teams don't choose rookies over veterans for min contracts.

Btw this is regardless of a team keeping said player for the whole season or cutting him along the way.

I don't know if min contracts all count the same on the salary cap, though. That is, would player A above count for $400k or $1.2M?

[littlecoyotecoin]

The league reimburses teams for any minimum contract for the amount that it exceeds the rookie minimum (the min increases with experience in the league). So if the vet minimum for player A is $1.2M and the league rookie min is $400k, the league pays for $800k of the salary. The point is so that teams don't choose rookies over veterans for min contracts.

Btw this is regardless of a team keeping said player for the whole season or cutting him along the way.

I don't know if min contracts all count the same on the salary cap, though. That is, would player A above count for $400k or $1.2M?

Thanks!

[Mel_13]

The league reimburses teams for any minimum contract for the amount that it exceeds the rookie minimum (the min increases with experience in the league). So if the vet minimum for player A is $1.2M and the league rookie min is $400k, the league pays for $800k of the salary. The point is so that teams don't choose rookies over veterans for min contracts.

Btw this is regardless of a team keeping said player for the whole season or cutting him along the way.

I don't know if min contracts all count the same on the salary cap, though. That is, would player A above count for $400k or $1.2M?

The specifics per Larry Coon:

When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or rest-of-season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary level for a two-year veteran3. For example, in 2011-12 the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is $854,389, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $1,352,181, the league would reimburse the team $497,792. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

As to Austin Daye, he was on a two year minimum contract, so the league reimbursement does not apply.

[Seventyniner]

The specifics per Larry Coon:

When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or rest-of-season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary level for a two-year veteran3. For example, in 2011-12 the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is $854,389, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $1,352,181, the league would reimburse the team $497,792. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

As to Austin Daye, he was on a two year minimum contract, so the league reimbursement does not apply.

Thanks for the correction. Again my memory was around 75% right. I remembered the part about the reasoning behind the rule correctly at least.

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the correction. Again my memory was around 75% right. I remembered the part about the reasoning behind the rule correctly at least.

Yeah, I stopped relying on my memory a long time ago. I have Coon's FAQ bookmarked.

[Seventyniner]

Yeah, I stopped relying on my memory a long time ago. I have Coon's FAQ bookmarked.

I need to put that bookmark on my phone. A lot of what I get wrong about the CBA is because it's not readily accessible there. That and posting a well thought-out response (including things like copy and paste) are just a pain on a phone.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I need to put that bookmark on my phone. A lot of what I get wrong about the CBA is because it's not readily accessible there. That and posting a well thought-out response (including things like copy and paste) are just a pain on a phone.

Ditto on the phone beef.

[Obstructed_View]

By the way, if anyone has an interest in a specific player or team, I have the SL app on my iPad and wouldn't mind watching. I just watched a Jazz game because I was interested in if Exum looks like an NBA player. He does. Utah's SL team looks like an actual basketball team at times. I'm a bit envious of the teamwork, if not the talent level.

[ChumpDumper]

Looking forward to seeing the Toros' Courtney Fells play the Spurs team. He's getting older but his improvement in scoring since leaving college is impressive.

[xmas1997]

Looking forward to seeing the Toros' Courtney Fells play the Spurs team. He's getting older but his improvement in scoring since leaving college is impressive.

27 year old SG 6'5" undrafted in 2009 out of N.C. State.
Has he played any PG?

[ChumpDumper]

27 year old SG undrafted in 2009.
Has he played any PG?No he's a pure SG.

Holds no interest for the Spurs presently. Would be nice to see him get an invite from some team.

[xmas1997]

No he's a pure SG.

Holds no interest for the Spurs presently. Would be nice to see him get an invite from some team.

Thanks.

[Solid D]

LOL Daye is straight up dollar movies...

...or "straight-to-video".

[Emperor]

Derrick Williams playing for Kings summer squad lol

[Emperor]

Kings got some dude who looks like Giant Gonzales lol and as tall also

[TheyCallMePro]

For the love of God can someone please find a decent link to this game?

Not on NBAtv....

[FireMicoHalili]

Casspi expected to be waived. Long shot the Spurs waive Daye in favor of Casspi but it's safe to say most of us here would rather have Casspi than Daye.

[ChumpDumper]

For the love of God can someone please find a decent link to this game?

Not on NBAtv....Spend five bucks, moneybags.

Otherwise I think it's tape delayed.

[TheyCallMePro]

Found a link.


http://www.stream2u.me/watch/40032/1/NBA-Summer-League-New-Orleans-Pelicans-vs-San-Antonio-Spurs.html

[littlecoyotecoin]

For the love of God can someone please find a decent link to this game?

Not on NBAtv....

Wiziwig, maybe, my friend. Start time 6:30?

[Mal]

The Josh Howard :lmao

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

PULL THE CHAIR ON HIM DAYE!!

[Emperor]

Cotton with nice strong drive in

[jeebus]

Ayres is a piece of shit

[Mal]

Frontcourt do suck. Cant rebound, cant defend post.

[Emperor]

Ayers with no regard for human life! lol

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I wish Ayres was good, other than those 2 dunks last year he's a pretty solid dunker.

[Mal]

Darius Morris is by far best player on this Spurs summer league team

[Raven]

nice dunk by errors

[ChumpDumper]

I wish Ayres was good, other than those 2 dunks last year he's a pretty solid dunker.Yeah his only traits last season were running the floor and dunking, and he had to catch the ball for the latter. :depressed

[Emperor]

Kyle is sloooooow but effective.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Yeah his only traits last season were running the floor and dunking, and he had to catch the ball for the latter. :depressed
You'd think that he'd be a solid PnR defender because of his mobility but he just sits under the basket, it's pretty frustrating.

[Mal]

Doesnt matter if Daye hit those threes or not, he cant rebound. That means he cant play PF for Spurs.

[manufan10]

Nice move by Anderson.

[ChumpDumper]

Adam Silver straight pimpin' with the autographs.

[elemento]

Derrick Williams playing for Kings summer squad lol

He looked terrible against San Antonio SL squad :lol

[Mal]

Best player without chance to crack into team.

[manufan10]

Daye needs to hit the weight room.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Tvembed

[TheyCallMePro]

Can yall please post the link you're watching the game at?

[TheGreatYacht]

If it wasn't for Bonner's bum ass taking up a roster spot... Darius Morris would be on this team smh

[ChumpDumper]

Best player without chance to crack into team.You never know. If they are comfortable with his playing the point....

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Daye needs to hit the weight room.
I could be crazy but he looks slightly better now than he did when he joined the team. It might be hard for a guy of his size to add any noticeable mass in only a couple of months.

[ChumpDumper]

Can yall please post the link you're watching the game at?nba.com, Daddy Warbucks.

[TheyCallMePro]

nba.com, Daddy Warbucks.

...

[Raven]

morris is annoying, i hate to waste these spots for players trying to statpad

[ChumpDumper]

morris is annoying, i hate to waste these spots for players trying to statpadYeah, shooting 4-5? Dude should be kicked off the team right now.

[manufan10]

I could be crazy but he looks slightly better now than he did when he joined the team. It might be hard for a guy of his size to add any noticeable mass in only a couple of months.

I just noticed a couple of times down the floor where he was pushed around rather easily.

[TheGreatYacht]

JaMychal Green - 4 rebounds 4 minutes

Jeff Ayres yesterday - 2 rebounds 22 minutes 37 claps

[jyra]

Welp, looks like Ryan Richards is going back to Austria.. I was wondering why he is not sitting on the bench.
488368014891708418

Really disappointing that he couldn't even get one minute of game action this time around.

[Mal]

Welp, looks like Ryan Richards is going back to Austria.. I was wondering why he is not sitting on the bench.
488368014891708418

Really disappointing that he couldn't even get one minute of game action this time around.

No, it`s not. Forget this guy.

[Emperor]

Can Ayers ever handle a simple pass? My goodness

[Emperor]

Daye showing off that 3pt range.

[ChumpDumper]

Looking forward to seeing the Toros' Courtney Fells play the Spurs team. He's getting older but his improvement in scoring since leaving college is impressive.Camp invite secured.

Now working on guaranteed money.

[Mal]

I can see that Spurs are investing in Daye. They have high hopes for him.

[Mal]

Anderson need some Chip time.

[Emperor]

Anderson need some Chip time.

You ain't lyin lol

[Mal]

Great pass by Boris

[wildcardX]

JaMychal Green - 4 rebounds 4 minutes

Jeff Ayres yesterday - 2 rebounds 22 minutes 37 claps

Don't forget Ayres having his dunk blocked by the rim. It was so bad even the announcers said it was embarrassing. I was in the middle of saying "Fucking Ayres" and laughing while eating lunch. I damn near choked on my food and it would've been all Ayres fault.

[Emperor]

Adam Silver sitting next Buford and Holt earlier, chatting it up. Wonder what they were talking about?

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Undeniable that Anderson has good court vision, but he's had some struggles. He picks up his dribble too much and his release is kinda slow.

[Raven]

thomas looks like a fairly unefficient chucker

[manufan10]

They just showed Kool at the game. :lol

[Raven]

holy fuck green :lol

[Emperor]

Green with the putback dunk!

[Emperor]

Dang Norris got hurt

[Mal]

I hope his knee is alright.

[ChumpDumper]

Knee to knee?

[manufan10]

Green had two nice sequences there with the putback dunk and then the block on the other end.

[Emperor]

For the love of God can someone please find a decent link to this game?

Not on NBAtv....

Thomas And Mack Center

[xellos88330]

They just showed Kool at the game. :lol

That was my first thought too... lol!!!

[wildcardX]

I could be crazy but he looks slightly better now than he did when he joined the team. It might be hard for a guy of his size to add any noticeable mass in only a couple of months.

I did notice that he was getting more physical in the post and he looks a little heavier, could be why his shot is off. I remember in high school hitting the gym and bulking up. I was able to jump higher and box out guys for rebounds but my jumper was off for a couple months. I don't know if it was that I had more fatigue in my arms with weight training, or maybe I was getting more lift in my legs when I shot the ball which threw off my shot. Anyway, didn't get my shot back consistently until I stopped bulking up with heavy weights and went back down to moderate to liter weights.

[TheyCallMePro]

God that looks like it hurts. Hope Morris is okay.

From watching so far at halftime: Anderson's lack of athleticism on the defensive end is gunna drive Pop nuts. I don't know what you do about it either. Basically you have to tell Anderson to somehow become more athletic. Is that possible?

And his release on his shot is way too goddamn slow. He'll never get that shot off in the NBA. And he seems to need the ball in his hands as a PG to make plays while passing the ball. Definitely not like Diaw at all, who can play off the ball and be a creator with ease.

[xellos88330]

Undeniable that Anderson has good court vision, but he's had some struggles. He picks up his dribble too much and his release is kinda slow.

One good thing I saw about his slow release is that he can still pass out of a shot. I thought he was gonna get stuffed for the corner 3, but he was able to pass out of his shooting motion due to his late release.

[ChumpDumper]

Anderson will need to do more of his stepback shot in the NBA. The pace of the D-League is probably going to help him and they can find out his best use without the ball on offense as well.

[TheGreatYacht]

JaMychal Green - 8pts, 6reb, 9min

Dexter Pittman of the Summer League.. I hope this guy actually has a chance and he's not just some roster filler

[xellos88330]

I did notice that he was getting more physical in the post and he looks a little heavier, could be why his shot is off. I remember in high school hitting the gym and bulking up. I was able to jump higher and box out guys for rebounds but my jumper was off for a couple months. I don't know if it was that I had more fatigue in my arms with weight training, or maybe I was getting more lift in my legs when I shot the ball which threw off my shot. Anyway, didn't get my shot back consistently until I stopped bulking up with heavy weights and went back down to moderate to liter weights.

Did you shoot after you lifted? If not, I have found that you can keep your jumper consistent if you shoot around for about an hour or so after lifting. If you did, then I don't know what to say.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I did notice that he was getting more physical in the post and he looks a little heavier, could be why his shot is off. I remember in high school hitting the gym and bulking up. I was able to jump higher and box out guys for rebounds but my jumper was off for a couple months. I don't know if it was that I had more fatigue in my arms with weight training, or maybe I was getting more lift in my legs when I shot the ball which threw off my shot. Anyway, didn't get my shot back consistently until I stopped bulking up with heavy weights and went back down to moderate to liter weights.

Less lift in the legs, probably, due to the same fatigue. A lot of shots were way short in games one and two.

[TheyCallMePro]

JaMychal Green - 8pts, 6reb, 9min

Dexter Pittman of the Summer League.. I hope this guy actually has a chance and he's not just some roster filler

He's definitely looked like the best man on this summer league roster thus far. Love his hustle on both sides of the ball. He's 10x better than Ayers and Baynes. It's a shame there's no room on the roster for him. Anderson is the only one who is going to make this team.

[TheGreatYacht]

Don't forget Ayres having his dunk blocked by the rim. It was so bad even the announcers said it was embarrassing. I was in the middle of saying "Fucking Ayres" and laughing while eating lunch. I damn near choked on my food and it would've been all Ayres fault.
What? Lol I only watched a little bit, Jim Boylen has to be laughing right now. He's making Udoka look like an idiot in front of RC lol

[Raven]

daye played well

[xellos88330]

Missed dunk by Ayers.... flashback time.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Ayres please

[TheGreatYacht]

He's definitely looked like the best man on this summer league roster thus far. Love his hustle on both sides of the ball. He's 10x better than Ayers and Baynes. It's a shame there's no room on the roster for him. Anderson is the only one who is going to make this team.
He's listed at 6'9 with shoes but you can't tell the way he plays. I'm still hoping PATFO can pull a trade with Ayres and a 2nd round pick

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

OH HE PULLED THE CHAIR AGAINNNNN

[xellos88330]

Daye seems to have worked on pulling the chair post defense.

He has done it 3 times already.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Daye has shown some nice passing like he did in some regular season games. He likes that underhanded scoop pass a lot.

[ChumpDumper]

Daye finally puts together a good name.

Ayres trying way too hard now.

[xellos88330]

Cotton needs to keep in front of Smith.

[Hoops Czar]

He's listed at 6'9 with shoes but you can't tell the way he plays. I'm still hoping PATFO can pull a trade with Ayres and a 2nd round pick

Have you been watching Ayres play? He's getting punk'd in Summer league. Who in their right mind is going to trade for that?

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Daye has had some decent outlet passes.

[TheGoldStandard]

Good for Daye having a decent game, hopefully he can build on this but too inconsistent to believe he can. Green with another solid game

[DapDaGenius]

Where can I find the stats for this game? I missed the 1st half and most of the 3rd.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

These refs are mastering the art of waiting to see whether a shot makes or misses before calling a foul.