Woj: Marcus Morris Reneging on Agreement with Spurs?

[vy65]

In fact, the very existance of the moratorium period might be exactly FOR players to have this option. Otherwise what exactly is the point?

Section 1. General Rules.
(a) Subject to the provisions of Article VII, including, but not limited to, Article VII, Section 6(b), and subject further to Article II, Section 14:
(i) an Unrestricted Free Agent is free at any time beginning on the first day of the Moratorium Period to negotiate, and free at any time after the conclusion of the Moratorium Period to enter into, a Player Contract with any Team; and

The point is to negotiate and reach an agreement on a contracts terms.

I’m unaware of any kind of business where you can reach an agreement on all material terms and back out prior to execution without suffering consequences. Particularly when the parties start acting like a deal is in place

[Chinook]

In fact, the very existance of the moratorium period might be exactly FOR players to have this option. Otherwise what exactly is the point?

It's for teams to set up their boards more than players. Because the NBA has a soft cap, the order of deals is important. A lot of signings become S&Ts and cap space becomes cleared in this time. Back in the day, it used to be time for the NBA to add up its money to calculate the new cap, and unlike now, the number used to change by a non-negligible amount. I think that might have even happened in 2015.

Morris was within his rights to back out or hold off, but the spirit of the moratorium is to honor these "agreements" so that everybody can be on the same page of where the market is at. Even in a lot of cases with an unexpected change, the teams and players will honor their promises, because one of both sides have already given up other opportunities to make it happen.

[baseline bum]

That is some Bullshit. Agrees, and then blows off the physical to get out of it. CBA is BS..

I think the owners are going to rip up the CBA in 2023 (the first opt out) and push hard for non-guaranteed NFL style contracts now that star players are in effect in a perpetual free agency (see Leonard, AD, George all forcing trades with years left on their deals) while teams who overpay for underperforming guys like John Wall are stuck with the contracts. Those three are going to kill the golden goose that NBA players have with guaranteed contracts. After seeing the shit Kawhi pulled, then Davis doing it, then George doing it, small market owners have to feel like fucking suckers.

[Mr. Body]

I'd bet money that part of the CBA is that parties don't go through the normal legal route but instead some form of arbitration. NBA negotiations aren't like regular business negotiations.

But they are regular business negotiations. The law doesn't just disappear. Naturally the league office doesn't want this to happen, nor would it, because the Spurs won't want to be seen as attacking a player. Just saying that there is a legal motion to seek damages from someone pulling out of a verbal promise.

[TXstbobcat]

Bullock never signed a contract so there's nothing to restructure. It sounds like he failed the physical and that the Knicks will instead throw the money at Morris. Knicks might throw a couple million at Bullock in good faith ... depending on what the reason is he might not be able to play next season.

got it. Thank you for clarifying that.

[Mr. Body]

So would you trade Murray now?

No. Next question?

[Dennis the Menace]

Nope. Our trade with Wash is completely independent of signing Morris. It had to happen first.

I don’t think the delay is a good sign at all. NY is just doing capology things, and when that’s done, he’ll sign.


This. It’s probably a done deal. Just waiting on Bullock situation to resolve itself. Klutch took down the Spurs signing of Morris on their twitter. LOL great agency they are

[Chinook]

So would you trade Murray now?

I wouldn't. But I'd have a really short fuse with Paul in extension talks. If he tried to pull any of that hardball "max or no deal" shit, I'd tell Murray that talks were off until he had different representation. Klutch being reasonable and working on a favorable to solid deal would go a long way to repairing bridges.

[vy65]

There is something called promissory estoppel, which essentially means that a promise made and then broken can be actionable if the aggrieved party suffered damages through the breaking. The Spurs would have a case in potentially recovering the extra money given to Carroll, potentially something from the Bertans trade, and more. I would think Klutch would be the responsible party, but perhaps Morris, too.

Now, I doubt they go this far, but the legal principle exists.


SR21 suggested that earlier.

I still think there’s an argument that it’s an enforceable verbal agreement since the 1 year option likely takes it out of the statute of frauds

[MannyIsGod]

Section 1. General Rules.
(a) Subject to the provisions of Article VII, including, but not limited to, Article VII, Section 6(b), and subject further to Article II, Section 14:
(i) an Unrestricted Free Agent is free at any time beginning on the first day of the Moratorium Period to negotiate, and free at any time after the conclusion of the Moratorium Period to enter into, a Player Contract with any Team; and

The point is to negotiate and reach an agreement on a contracts terms.

I’m unaware of any kind of business where you can reach an agreement on all material terms and back out prior to execution without suffering consequences. Particularly when the parties start acting like a deal is in place

You should be aware that the NBA is that kind of business as its happened before on multiple occasions. Its rare, but its not unprecedented. I'm not even sure why we're still debating this considering you have zero precedent on your side.

[Mr. Body]

I wouldn't. But I'd have a really short fuse with Paul in extension talks. If he tried to pull any of that hardball "max or no deal" shit, I'd tell Murray that talks were off until he had different representation. Klutch being reasonable and working on a favorable to solid deal would go a long way to repairing bridges.

If Murray doesn't drop Klutch, this is a bad sign for him. I doubt he has the people around him to let him know this, though. My guess is he's gone at first opportunity, but then I've thought that since I saw his Instagram account and that he was close with LeBron.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Blessing in disguise? RC's forced to trade beli so pop doesn't give him Walkers minutes per par

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the owners are going to rip up the CBA in 2023 (the first opt out) and push hard for non-guaranteed NFL style contracts now that star players are in effect in a perpetual free agency (see Leonard, AD, George all forcing trades with years left on their deals) while teams who overpay for underperforming guys like John Wall are stuck with the contracts. Those three are going to kill the golden goose that NBA players have with guaranteed contracts. After seeing the shit Kawhi pulled, then Davis doing it, then George doing it, small market owners have to feel like fucking suckers.

Where this leads perhaps is some kind of MLB style arbitration process for the first 6 years or whatever of a player's career. Or just longer rookie contracts and lower maximum salaries for players until their 6th or 7th year. Or just shorter lengths for contracts.

[Mr. Body]

SR21 suggested that earlier.

I still think there’s an argument that it’s an enforceable verbal agreement since the 1 year option likely takes it out of the statute of frauds

Not enforceable in terms of making Morris sign with the Spurs, but actionable in that he can be sued for the consequences. Again, it's moot because I don't think anyone moves on it.

[paperboy77]

I'd bet money that part of the CBA is that parties don't go through the normal legal route but instead some form of arbitration. NBA negotiations aren't like regular business negotiations.

Arbitration is part of a shitload of business deals. Really that's what keeps things going and not dragging out in court... where everyone loses. Arbitration is a double edged sword.

[MannyIsGod]

But they are regular business negotiations. The law doesn't just disappear. Naturally the league office doesn't want this to happen, nor would it, because the Spurs won't want to be seen as attacking a player. Just saying that there is a legal motion to seek damages from someone pulling out of a verbal promise.

Are you sure the law doesn't disappears? If a party agrees to a bargaining agreement and the rules within, then does the law not take that into consideration? I'm no lawyer, so I"m not sure, but I also don't take it for granted.

[vy65]

You should be aware that the NBA is that kind of business as its happened before on multiple occasions. Its rare, but its not unprecedented. I'm not even sure why we're still debating this considering you have zero precedent on your side.

See Chinooks comment above. Precedent, while helpful, is unnecessary given the terms of the actual agreement

[Marcus Bryant]

But they are regular business negotiations. The law doesn't just disappear. Naturally the league office doesn't want this to happen, nor would it, because the Spurs won't want to be seen as attacking a player. Just saying that there is a legal motion to seek damages from someone pulling out of a verbal promise.

The law does disappear to an extent, that's why there's a CBA. https://www.post-gazette.com/business/legal/2011/02/14/Antitrust-law-looms-over-sports-contracts-analysis/stories/201102140219

[vy65]

Are you sure the law doesn't disappears? If a party agrees to a bargaining agreement and the rules within, then does the law not take that into consideration? I'm no lawyer, so I"m not sure, but I also don't take it for granted.

I don’t do labor and employment, but the CBA supplants/provides the law for the parties

[DPG21920]

Just because they have it better than the other leagues doesn't mean they shouldn't try to get as much power as they can.

Do you feel this way about owners? No. There should be balance.

[GreekSpursfan]

If Morris changed his mind again for whatever reason and wants to sign with us again if i'm the Spurs i terminate any discussion with him and cancel any offer. If i'm the Spurs i'm already working on something else

[MannyIsGod]

Where this leads perhaps is some kind of MLB style arbitration process for the first 6 years or whatever of a player's career. Or just longer rookie contracts and lower maximum salaries for players until their 6th or 7th year. Or just shorter lengths for contracts.

I really doubt it. The NBA stars have way more power than MLB or NFL stars. Thats the main reason NBA owners are so progressive. Its not because NBA owners are any more liberal or with the times, but rather simply the power dynamic.

[Chinook]

You should be aware that the NBA is that kind of business as its happened before on multiple occasions. Its rare, but its not unprecedented. I'm not even sure why we're still debating this considering you have zero precedent on your side.

Maybe after next contract. Right now, Murray has to look out for his own financial security. He has no reason to drop Paul if the Spurs aren't already offering him a lucrative extension. It only makes sense if SA has an offer that Murray likes but is currently being told to reject by Klutch. Then he can fire Paul and take the deal to keep good will. Otherwise, he should go with the guy who usually gets his players good money.

[Ocotillo]

Any chance this is Klutch working for Dejounte? Leak comes out Morris is considering the Knicks, so the agent steps in and talks sense to the client. PATFO owes Klutch for helping out so they call in a favor when DJ is up for renewal. Win win

[DPG21920]

Really? If he takes an extra day to decide and ultimately signs with the Spurs, no one will remember. The storyline would be that he got a last second offer that was like 60% higher than San Antonio's offer yet decided to sign with the Spurs anyways after taking a day or two to think about it.

This whole thing would be forgotten in about a week.

Obviously, my guess is he goes to NY but no need being overly dramatic until something actually happens.

Look at the universal reactions from just though THOUGHT of doing this. It’s a very big unspoken rule; goes double in this situation with the trade.

[MannyIsGod]

Do you feel this way about owners? No. There should be balance.

I mean I generally feel the owners have more power than the should in all the leagues. I do think there should be balance but I think the balance is skewed in favor of the owners in every sport, including the NBA. Just because the NBA players have the most power out of any sport doesn't mean they have balance. I do think they are much closer to it than any other league, however.

[MannyIsGod]

See Chinooks comment above. Precedent, while helpful, is unnecessary given the terms of the actual agreement

Makes sense.

To be clear, I think its a dick move to give your word and then reneg. I just don't know if its a violation of the rules.

[Marcus Bryant]

Any chance this is Klutch working for Dejounte? Leak comes out Morris is considering the Knicks, so the agent steps in and talks sense to the client. PATFO owes Klutch for helping out so they call in a favor when DJ is up for renewal. Win win

Nothing would surprise me but I think we go with Ockham's razor and it seems more likely that when the Knicks realized they had a problem and the remaining uncommitted free agent pool was shit they looked at who had yet to sign their contract.

[FkLA]

So, as far as player empowerment goes, I don't mind it honestly. Yeah it sucks when it doesn't work out for the team, but honestly I'd rather the NBA players have the power than some rich white owner. What Kawhi did was fucked and shitty, but owners have done far worse. So have GMs. Isiah Thomas anyone?

That being said, there needs to be enforcement of tampering rules. I'm not sure if this falls into that category as its still unclear if Morris is going to reneg and whether or not it was suggested and put forth by his agency or whether or not he's just being an asshole who's word doesn't mean shit.

Are the players not rich or something? The most influential ones, who are also the ones usually driving the player empowerment movement have a net worth of hundreds of millions. They're little divas that flock to the big market coast cities, fucking over fans like us on the inland. Being more sympathetic to their cause is stupid since the divide between the players and us average joes is probably bigger than the divide between the players and owners.

Also, I don't care what some piece of shit GM or owner did. To do what Nephew and Morris have done to a first class organization is beyond fucked up. To me "player empowerment" doesn't encompass fucking over honorable men like Pop and RC.

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe after next contract. Right now, Murray has to look out for his own financial security. He has no reason to drop Paul if the Spurs aren't already offering him a lucrative extension. It only makes sense if SA has an offer that Murray likes but is currently being told to reject by Klutch. Then he can fire Paul and take the deal to keep good will. Otherwise, he should go with the guy who usually gets his players good money.

Wrong post quote?

[Slippy]

Whether he comes or not, the real issue is the Spurs lost a trade piece for nothing. As much as we got on Davis, he still has value around the league and the spurs got a giant fuckimg slap in the face as compensation for him if this plays out. Sucks.

Seems like a bit of colluding to me. Spurs behind the scenes surely will point this out. The clear conflict of interest is Paul as the agent of lebron. Spurs did everything correctly in good faith and with in the rules.

Have no doubt this why the spurs are staying quiet.

[vy65]

Makes sense.

To be clear, I think its a dick move to give your word and then reneg. I just don't know if its a violation of the rules.

:tu

[Mr. Body]

Look at the universal reactions from just though THOUGHT of doing this. It’s a very big unspoken rule; goes double in this situation with the trade.

Yeah, I can't imagine every FO in the league hasn't noticed this, even if he does resign. And I can imagine Silver is in communication with his people as we speak. Timvp continues to be very wrong on this issue.

[Chinook]

Look at the universal reactions from just though THOUGHT of doing this. It’s a very big unspoken rule; goes double in this situation with the trade.

Okay, but if Morris still signs, what's the big deal? I get saying that it sucks he may not come over, but it's foolish to think this would really go with him if he ends up sticking to the script. Plus, you know he'd be a good player for the team given that he turned down so much money to play for SA. If his goal were just to coast on money, he'd go to NYK. If he goes to the Spurs, it'll be because he wants to play for a good team, win games and show off his worth in a strong system. That's actually more than I was expecting from him going into this.

[Marcus Bryant]

I really doubt it. The NBA stars have way more power than MLB or NFL stars. Thats the main reason NBA owners are so progressive. Its not because NBA owners are any more liberal or with the times, but rather simply the power dynamic.

Some stars have power. But a lot of members of the players union aren't on max deals. Lockouts usually don't work out for either side, but the owners would be able to apply some real pressure.

[SequSpur]

I love KU but the Morris twins have been fucked up since day 1 in the NBA.

This is all on Pop and RC. Fucking things up....

What’s up exstatic? Hit me up on a dm

[Chinook]

Wrong post quote?

Yeah my bad. Was trying to respond to a post saying Murray should drop Paul immediately to not lose face with the Spurs.

[SequSpur]

Wtf? Murray hasn’t done shit yet. Dude has to ball first. Dfs in here want to max out someone who hasn’t proved shit

[spurraider21]

There is something called promissory estoppel, which essentially means that a promise made and then broken can be actionable if the aggrieved party suffered damages through the breaking. The Spurs would have a case in potentially recovering the extra money given to Carroll, potentially something from the Bertans trade, and more. I would think Klutch would be the responsible party, but perhaps Morris, too.

Now, I doubt they go this far, but the legal principle exists.
:lol my dude


no, klutch is just doing what their client instructs. the agreement or "promise" was between the spurs and morris. the legal theory would be "promissory estoppel" because the spurs acted to their detriment (trading bertans, adding a 3rd year to carroll's deal) based on reasonable reliance on assurances given by morris. even if those assurances/promises werent in the form of a binding contract, courts could enforce based on the spurs damages.

but yeah, this is all just a mental exercise. dallas went through the same thing with deandre. not the first time this has happened. though i dont know that dallas made any specific roster moves purely because of deandre's commitment, the way spurs did with bertans/carroll

[Mr. Body]

I don’t do labor and employment, but the CBA supplants/provides the law for the parties

Well, only insofar as it covers such issues. It's not like the NBA becomes a fiefdom unto itself. Labor and contract law still apply.

[DPG21920]

Okay, but if Morris still signs, what's the big deal? I get saying that it sucks he may not come over, but it's foolish to think this would really go with him if he ends up sticking to the script. Plus, you know he'd be a good player for the team given that he turned down so much money to play for SA. If his goal were just to coast on money, he'd go to NYK. If he goes to the Spurs, it'll be because he wants to play for a good team, win games and show off his worth in a strong system. That's actually more than I was expecting from him going into this.

Sure - makes sense and I said it will likely blow over. But SA know what he did and the fact that it even happened is pretty damaging. But if it’s all for not, people likely have short memories I guess. Fans are pissed though

[MannyIsGod]

Some stars have power. But a lot of members of the players union aren't on max deals. Lockouts usually don't work out for either side, but the owners would be able to apply some real pressure.

You're not wrong, but a lot of the players area also generating a lot of money from other places. People make fun of Murray's instagram presence, but that's probably generating him actual money. The lockout pressure won't be as strong. Doesn't mean it still won't be effective for the owners, but its also now as sure a thing as it was before.

[Blackhaus]

Okay, but if Morris still signs, what's the big deal? I get saying that it sucks he may not come over, but it's foolish to think this would really go with him if he ends up sticking to the script. Plus, you know he'd be a good player for the team given that he turned down so much money to play for SA. If his goal were just to coast on money, he'd go to NYK. If he goes to the Spurs, it'll be because he wants to play for a good team, win games and show off his worth in a strong system. That's actually more than I was expecting from him going into this.

too much common sense in this statement

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have whatever remedy the CBA affords them. Or, they could pick up the phone and move on.

[vy65]

Well, only insofar as it covers such issues. It's not like the NBA becomes a fiefdom unto itself. Labor and contract law still apply.

Right. You can’t have a CBA providing for murder-for-hire contracts. It’s still subject to the law, but provides for an additional regime governing how employment issues are handled

[Mr. Body]

Okay, but if Morris still signs, what's the big deal? I get saying that it sucks he may not come over, but it's foolish to think this would really go with him if he ends up sticking to the script. Plus, you know he'd be a good player for the team given that he turned down so much money to play for SA. If his goal were just to coast on money, he'd go to NYK. If he goes to the Spurs, it'll be because he wants to play for a good team, win games and show off his worth in a strong system. That's actually more than I was expecting from him going into this.

It goes with him because he's looking for another deal after this one. Who thinks he'll be negotiating in good faith? For Klutch, this is even more damaging. There's a reason why Pelinka dropped Boozer after that fiasco: he needed to be seen as working in good faith. There was that dude where his agent's office failed to turn in a form and cost him millions of dollars. They paid him themselves. There's a reason why good faith and word of honor are extremely important.

[MannyIsGod]

One thing is for certain, it does suck when players do this type of thing to the Spurs because the Spurs are at the forefront of enabling players not holding them back. Morris could have probably been upfront with Pop instead of missing the physical and the Spurs wouldn't have been upset. I mean they let Korver back out of a deal.

[Blackhaus]

Fully expect this thread to be 60 pages when I wake up tomorrow. Hopefully with news he signed with us. Won’t lose any sleep over it though.

[Chinook]

Sure - makes sense and I said it will likely blow over. But SA know what he did and the fact that it even happened is pretty damaging. But if it’s all for not, people likely have short memories I guess. Fans are pissed though

Yeah, it will be bad if he leaves. The biggest issue is that the Knicks aren't likely to even have a good spot for Morris. They would have just signed him to sign somebody, and doing so in such an underhanded way would stick in many people's craws. Like if the Lakers had signed him after Kawhi picked LAC because they all of the sudden had cap space and needed good players, that makes sense. The Knicks had a ton of front-court players they signed just this year. They didn't need another one, especially on a one-year deal.

[MannyIsGod]

Okay, but if Morris still signs, what's the big deal? I get saying that it sucks he may not come over, but it's foolish to think this would really go with him if he ends up sticking to the script. Plus, you know he'd be a good player for the team given that he turned down so much money to play for SA. If his goal were just to coast on money, he'd go to NYK. If he goes to the Spurs, it'll be because he wants to play for a good team, win games and show off his worth in a strong system. That's actually more than I was expecting from him going into this.


Reactions in this thread generally seem to be assuming he's gone. But after thought, I'd agree with you that if he signs then it'll be a blip.

[TXstbobcat]

If the spurs had Suge Knight on the front office payroll issues like this would be taken care of quickly. :lmao

[spurraider21]

I don’t do labor and employment, but the CBA supplants/provides the law for the parties
i mean if i signed a contract tomorrow to play for the miami heat for 4 years 400 million, i cant say its enforceable just because we signed it. there are NBA rules that must be adhered to in these contractual agreements. one of them is probably that they must sign an NBA form contract and it must be in writing and submitted to the league before being official/binding

[keithington1]

Melo time

[lmbebo]

i mean if i signed a contract tomorrow to play for the miami heat for 4 years 400 million, i cant say its enforceable just because we signed it. there are NBA rules that must be adhered to in these contractual agreements. one of them is probably that they must sign an NBA form contract and it must be in writing and submitted to the league before being official/binding


You are correct. Former boss's son is an NBA lawyer who reviews all NBA contracts after signing.

[vy65]

i mean if i signed a contract tomorrow to play for the miami heat for 4 years 400 million, i cant say its enforceable just because we signed it. there are NBA rules that must be adhered to in these contractual agreements. one of them is probably that they must sign an NBA form contract and it must be in writing and submitted to the league before being official/binding

Why not? Offer, acceptance, consideration. Employment contracts need not be written to be enforceable so long as the statute of frauds is satisfied.

The CBA contemplates a negotiation during the moratorium. If the parties reach a deal, they have an agreement. I’m unclear why it has to be written to be enforceable. Maybe the CBA says otherwise, but I haven’t seen that provision yet.

[spurraider21]

Why not? Offer, acceptance, consideration. Employment contracts need not be written to be enforceable so long as the statute of frauds is satisfied.
because you can contract around the law with a CBA, which the nba has done


The CBA contemplates a negotiation during the moratorium. If the parties reach a deal, they have an agreement. I’m unclear why it has to be written to be enforceable. Maybe the CBA says otherwise, but I haven’t seen that provision yet.
contemplates negotiations but specifically says they cant enter into contract until after the moratorium

[Chinook]

It goes with him because he's looking for another deal after this one. Who thinks he'll be negotiating in good faith? For Klutch, this is even more damaging. There's a reason why Pelinka dropped Boozer after that fiasco: he needed to be seen as working in good faith. There was that dude where his agent's office failed to turn in a form and cost him millions of dollars. They paid him themselves. There's a reason why good faith and word of honor are extremely important.

Yes, if Morris either goes to NYK or finds a way to get a better deal out of SA (can't imagine what that would be at this point), then it would hurt him. If he stays with the Spurs, people will just think, "Yeah, it was like double what he was going to make in SA, but he still chose to stick to the Spurs. Must mean he bought in." Giving this its due consideration is just common sense. You word matters, but Morris hasn't made the huge money his twin has. $6 Million is a lot. Paul's already sleazy, but he also is responsible for making sure his client knows what offers are on the table. He won't be hurt if Morris signs with the Spurs. If Morris leaves, then he'll be lambasted for all the reasons we've discussed. But there's very little downside to delaying the signing a few more days on its own.

[Marcus Bryant]

Morris playing a season in SA getting solid starting minutes on a playoff team would position him very well for free agency next summer. He got lost in the shuffle this season with so many names hitting the market.

Yes, the reported gross contract offer is substantially higher, but the take home difference is less. Getting crap minutes for a shit team doesn't seem like the best approach in a contract year, but hey, he got paid more today.

[vy65]

because you can contract around the law with a CBA, which the nba has done

contemplates negotiations but specifically says they cant enter into contract until after the moratorium

Is signing the NBA model form contract a condition precedent to the deal being enforced? Maybe, maybe not. I did a quick scan of the CBA and didn’t see anything suggesting that it was a precondition.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I think we almost have to forget about this guy. He doesn't want to be here and this seems like a not insignificant character issue. A shady character and doesn't like the Spurs?

What's the point in having him?

I imagine that Dejounte's gonna be a problem too, if he shows any signs of being above average.

Sigh.

Gonna take our lumps now, but gotta make a note of not dealing with Klutch Sports players in the future.

[spurraider21]

Is signing the NBA model form contract a condition precedent to the deal being enforced? Maybe, maybe not. I did a quick scan of the CBA and didn’t see anything suggesting that it was a precondition.
pretty sure the NBA is a party to all player contracts, its not just the player and the team. theres already been precedent where the nba was able to void a player's contract when it was determined that it violated the salary cap (chris dudley)

[poopbox]

It's interesting that Morris hasn't made a decision yet. I thought that he'd quickly sign with the Knicks after the news hit the press.

This is definitely a case of no news is good news for the Spurs. The longer this stretches out, the better chance that he'll ultimately pick the Spurs.

Probably got other agents and nba people in his ear telling him how bad he fucking it up for everybody...

And no...their is nothing good about a guy who was going to sign with you but deciding to sign with knicks...cause a guy who would sign with knicks isn't someone who can really help you win at a high level...by virtue of even considering the knicks...

Kind of like when Lamarcus was like "I'm really considering Phoenix"...should have pulled the plug then...

[vy65]

pretty sure the NBA is a party to all player contracts, its not just the player and the team. theres already been precedent where the nba was able to void a player's contract when it was determined that it violated the salary cap (chris dudley)

Section 1. Required Form.
The Player Contract to be entered into by each player and the Team by which he is employed shall be a Uniform Player Contract in the form annexed hereto as Exhibit A.

I don’t read that to provide a condition precedent to enforceability.

[timvp]

Tbh, the more I think about it, this would actually work in Morris' favor if he signs with the Spurs. San Antonio would celebrate a guy who turned down more money from New York City to play for the Spurs. It wouldn't be a negative at all.

I think the Knicks have the better shot of signing him but all isn't lost. And Morris' reputation isn't damaged at all if he picks the Spurs.

[Budkin]

I think we almost have to forget about this guy. He doesn't want to be here and this seems like a not insignificant character issue. A shady character and doesn't like the Spurs?

What's the point in having him?

I imagine that Dejounte's gonna be a problem too, if he shows any signs of being above average.

Sigh.

Gonna take our lumps now, but gotta make a note of not dealing with Klutch Sports players in the future.

But if he doesn't like the Spurs why did he agree to sign?

[vy65]

pretty sure the NBA is a party to all player contracts, its not just the player and the team. theres already been precedent where the nba was able to void a player's contract when it was determined that it violated the salary cap (chris dudley)


It’s not

THIS AGREEMENT made this _____ day of___________________, is by and between ________________________ (hereinafter called the “Team”), a member of the National Basketball Association (hereinafter called the “NBA” or “League”) and ___________________, an individual whose address is shown below (hereinafter called the “Player”). In consideration of the mutual promises hereinafter contained, the parties hereto promise and agree as follows:

Also the NBA is not on the sig bloc

EXAMINE THIS CONTRACT CAREFULLY BEFORE SIGNING IT.
THIS CONTRACT INCLUDES EXHIBITS ________, WHICH ARE ATTACHED HERETO AND MADE A PART HEREOF.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF the Player has hereunto signed his name and the Team has caused this Contract to be executed by its duly authorized officer.
Dated: By: Title:
Team:
Dated: By: Player:
Player’s Address:

[Dhbsr555]

Morris going to ny spurs look else where

[RD2191]

This mother fucker ain't picking the Spurs. :lol

[DPG21920]

Morris playing a season in SA getting solid starting minutes on a playoff team would position him very well for free agency next summer. He got lost in the shuffle this season with so many names hitting the market.

Yes, the reported gross contract offer is substantially higher, but the take home difference is less. Getting crap minutes for a shit team doesn't seem like the best approach in a contract year, but hey, he got paid more today.

All of that plus the Spurs are a highly regarded franchise with far reaching relationships and respect. This can’t bode well for anyone that values character. Why would you trust anything he says or make him a priority after this?

If he was not a priority with his reputation at the highest it’s been, why would this UP his appeal?

[acoelho1]

Whatever happen to personal responsibility? Rich Paul can't force his clients to take certain actions. Morris gave his word and now he has reservations and ultimately, it's his decision, not Klutch's. Also, not sure why Murray is being added to the discussion. I think Spurs fans are on hyper paranoia after the Kawhi fiasco. Murray is his own man and it appears the organization has a great relationship with him so I'm not concerned about his extension talks.

[DPG21920]

Tbh, the more I think about it, this would actually work in Morris' favor if he signs with the Spurs. San Antonio would celebrate a guy who turned down more money from New York City to play for the Spurs. It wouldn't be a negative at all.

I think the Knicks have the better shot of signing him but all isn't lost. And Morris' reputation isn't damaged at all if he picks the Spurs.


Bruh - no. I hate Morris no matter what he does from here on out (unless he picks SA and plays amazing and works hard to shed this bs incident). I think most fans at least feel the same way.

How he’s viewed in a locker room and by teams may differ.

[FkLA]

Looking at Klutch's list of clients, the most notable are guys like Draymond, JR Smith, T. Thompson, Wall, Morris twins, Bledsoe, Bazley, Ben Simmons, Nerlens Noel, etc. Not exactly the most upstanding guys or best teammates.

But I'm sure Murray will turn out just fine. :rolleyes

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I was kind of annoyed at first heard this news... but then I realized it’s just Marcus Morris.

[vy65]

pretty sure the NBA is a party to all player contracts, its not just the player and the team. theres already been precedent where the nba was able to void a player's contract when it was determined that it violated the salary cap (chris dudley)


Section 5. Conformity.
(a) All currently effective Player Contracts, and all Player Contracts entered into on or after the effective date of this Agreement that do not otherwise so provide, shall be deemed amended in such manner to require the parties to comply with all terms of this Agreement, including the terms of the Uniform Player Contract annexed hereto as Exhibit A. All Player Contracts shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement, which shall supersede the terms of any Player Contract inconsistent herewith. No Player Contract shall provide for the waiver by a player or a Team of any benefits or the sacrifice of any rights to which the player or the Team is entitled by virtue of a Uniform Player Contract or this Agreement.

But you’re right in that the contracts are subject to the CBA’s restrictions, hence the Jard Dudley example. Still don’t think it supplants common law shit like frauds

[Marcus Bryant]

All of that plus the Spurs are a highly regarded franchise with far reaching relationships and respect. This can’t bode well for anyone that values character. Why would you trust anything he says or make him a priority after this?

If he was not a priority with his reputation at the highest it’s been, why would this UP his appeal?

True. The timetable within free agency is very tight. Why's a team going to pursue a given free agent who's demonstrated that his verbal agreement means jack shit and risk screwing up its offseason?

[spurraider21]

Section 1. Required Form.
The Player Contract to be entered into by each player and the Team by which he is employed shall be a Uniform Player Contract in the form annexed hereto as Exhibit A.

I don’t read that to provide a condition precedent to enforceability.
really? shall is the strongest language you're going to have here. any employment dispute with the nba or a team will be subject to the CBA... it seems pretty cut and dry

plus, it states outright that there can be no agreement until after the moratorium

Section 15. Moratorium Period.Except as permitted in the next sentence, notwithstanding any otherprovision of this Agreement, no player and Team may enter into any oralor written agreement concerning terms and conditions of the player’semployment, or reduce any such agreement to writing in the form of aUniform Player Contract or amendment, during the Moratorium Period.

[spurraider21]

Section 5. Conformity.
(a) All currently effective Player Contracts, and all Player Contracts entered into on or after the effective date of this Agreement that do not otherwise so provide, shall be deemed amended in such manner to require the parties to comply with all terms of this Agreement, including the terms of the Uniform Player Contract annexed hereto as Exhibit A. All Player Contracts shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement, which shall supersede the terms of any Player Contract inconsistent herewith. No Player Contract shall provide for the waiver by a player or a Team of any benefits or the sacrifice of any rights to which the player or the Team is entitled by virtue of a Uniform Player Contract or this Agreement.

But you’re right in that the contracts are subject to the CBA’s restrictions, hence the Jard Dudley example. Still don’t think it supplants common law shit like frauds
pretty sure it does.

[Degoat]

I still hope he signs with us even though it’s not looking likely, one thing that is kind of interesting. I think Morris would start for us but is there enough room on the roster for him with Rudy, and carrol? Because the players that close most games imo will probably be dejounte/White/DeMar/Rudy/LA... I’m sure carrol wouldn’t care but Morris might throw a bitch fit if he doesn’t finish games

[spurraider21]

I still hope he signs with us even though it’s not looking likely, one thing that is kind of interesting. I think Morris would start for us but is there enough room on the roster for him with Rudy, and carrol? Because the players that close most games imo will probably be dejounte/White/DeMar/Rudy/LA... I’m sure carrol wouldn’t care but Morris might throw a bitch fit if he doesn’t finish games
carroll would be the primary backup 3 and gay would be morris' primary backup

[Marcus Bryant]

I still hope he signs with us even though it’s not looking likely, one thing that is kind of interesting. I think Morris would start for us but is there enough room on the roster for him with Rudy, and carrol?

Yes.

[vy65]

really? shall is the strongest language you're going to have here. any employment dispute with the nba or a team will be subject to the CBA... it seems pretty cut and dry

plus, it states outright that there can be no agreement until after the moratorium

Section 15. Moratorium Period.Except as permitted in the next sentence, notwithstanding any otherprovision of this Agreement, no player and Team may enter into any oralor written agreement concerning terms and conditions of the player’semployment, or reduce any such agreement to writing in the form of aUniform Player Contract or amendment, during the Moratorium Period.

Shall refers to the form of agreement only.

As for Section 15, you left out the second half that qualifies what you posted:

The following shall be permitted during the Moratorium Period: (i) a player may accept any Required Tender, Qualifying Offer, or “Maximum Qualifying Offer” (as defined in Article XI, Section 4(a)(ii)) that is outstanding; (ii) a player and a Team may negotiate over the terms and conditions of a Player Contract that may be entered into following the conclusion of the Moratorium Period; (iii) a player and a Team may enter into an Offer Sheet; (iv) a First Round Pick and the Team that holds his draft rights may enter into a Rookie Scale Contract; and (v) a player and a Team may enter into a Player Contract, not to exceed two (2) Seasons in length, that provides for a Salary for each Salary Cap Year equal to the Two-Way Player Salary or the Minimum Player Salary applicable to the player (with no bonuses of any kind), and (v) a Team may exercise a Two- Way Contract’s Standard NBA Contract Conversion Option or, with respect to a Contract with an Exhibit 10, such Contract’s Two-Way Player Conversion Option, in accordance with Article II, Section 11(g) and (i) above.

The parties negotiate and agree to the terms of the deal that will be reduced to the model form agreement once the moratorium is over. Nothing in the CBA that I’ve seen says that a written contract on the required form is a precondition to enforceability, especially when negotiations are successful.

[poopbox]

Makes sense.

To be clear, I think its a dick move to give your word and then reneg. I just don't know if its a violation of the rules.

On it's own it's not a violation of the rule and I am sure players or teams reneg on stuff during free agency all the time and we just don't hear about it...

But when a team makes 2 moves that they can't undo BASED on your verbal agreement then it becomes the biggest possible violation of the rule...

Carroll now has a 3 year contract for no other reason than Morris said he would sign and the Spurs can't undo that...

Bertans is gone for nothing because Morris said he would sign and the Spurs can't undo that...

Bertans would have been gone anyway...but he would have been gone for more than nothing if this Morris thing never happens...

If they could go back and undo the bertans trade and the carroll sign and trade and just give him a large portion of the mle...no harm no foul...

But they can't...so now they might have just given away a player who had some value for absolutely nothing...

[spurraider21]

Shall refers to the form of agreement only.

As for Section 15, you left out the second half that qualifies what you posted:

The following shall be permitted during the Moratorium Period: (i) a player may accept any Required Tender, Qualifying Offer, or “Maximum Qualifying Offer” (as defined in Article XI, Section 4(a)(ii)) that is outstanding; (ii) a player and a Team may negotiate over the terms and conditions of a Player Contract that may be entered into following the conclusion of the Moratorium Period; (iii) a player and a Team may enter into an Offer Sheet; (iv) a First Round Pick and the Team that holds his draft rights may enter into a Rookie Scale Contract; and (v) a player and a Team may enter into a Player Contract, not to exceed two (2) Seasons in length, that provides for a Salary for each Salary Cap Year equal to the Two-Way Player Salary or the Minimum Player Salary applicable to the player (with no bonuses of any kind), and (v) a Team may exercise a Two- Way Contract’s Standard NBA Contract Conversion Option or, with respect to a Contract with an Exhibit 10, such Contract’s Two-Way Player Conversion Option, in accordance with Article II, Section 11(g) and (i) above.

The parties negotiate and agree to the terms of the deal that will be reduced to the model form agreement once the moratorium is over. Nothing in the CBA that I’ve seen says that a written contract on the required form is a precondition to enforceability, especially when negotiations are successful.
yes. the form of the agreement. as in in a written contract, and not an oral promise

doesn't say anything about agreeing tbh... just that they can negotiate over terms

[Chinook]

Bruh - no. I hate Morris no matter what he does from here on out (unless he picks SA and plays amazing and works hard to shed this bs incident). I think most fans at least feel the same way.

How he’s viewed in a locker room and by teams may differ.

Nah. I don't really care what Morris does this summer if he re-signs. If he backed out to try to get LAL to sign him but came back after they said nothing than a min deal, that would be an issue. But if he has a chance at more money and passes it up, it speaks much more to his character than him listening at all. I certainly don't think the teammates will hate him if he sticks to SA. I wouldn't be surprised if Murray and the others are recruiting him now and might be playing a role him Morris holding off. As I fan, I pretty much considered him a mercenary before this. If he picks SA, at least I'll consider him a mercenary who will try his hardest to make good. Rather than it feeling like him being almost forced to agree with SA after they were the last girl at the ball, it would feel like he had options.

[Xx_SpursNation_xX]

Fuck him, toodles bitch, enjoy the knicks

[timvp]

Bruh - no. I hate Morris no matter what he does from here on out

You'd hate him if he says, "I got a last second offer I had to consider from the Knicks but I decided I still wanted to go to San Antonio. Go Spurs Go, tbh!" ?

I don't think you would, IMO.

[slick'81]

Damn reggie bullock

[Marcus Bryant]

Tbh, the more I think about it, this would actually work in Morris' favor if he signs with the Spurs. San Antonio would celebrate a guy who turned down more money from New York City to play for the Spurs. It wouldn't be a negative at all.

I think the Knicks have the better shot of signing him but all isn't lost. And Morris' reputation isn't damaged at all if he picks the Spurs.

If the Spurs and Morris are still talking I'm sure the Spurs are being clear about his role and likely amount of minutes in the rotation (ie significant). The Knicks threw out a larger number for one season, but what's his role with the rest of the 4s on the roster? How much PT?

[Duncan87]

Not a done deal yet but this dude looks gone

[barakz21]

Well, guess that means he’s no Tony Montana if he does go to the Knicks..

”All I have in this world is my balls and my word, and I don’t break them for no one!”

[vy65]

yes. the form of the agreement. as in in a written contract, and not an oral promise

doesn't say anything about agreeing tbh... just that they can negotiate over terms

Negotiate and enter are the words used. If negotiations are successful there’s an agreement. Maybe I’m missing it but what in the CBA says the written contract on the required form is required to enforce a contract - or - that an oral agreement struck during the moratorium is otherwise unenforceable?

[Marcus Bryant]

Let's be honest, NBA careers go to Madison Square Garden to die.

[DPG21920]

You'd hate him if he says, "I got a last second offer I had to consider from the Knicks but I decided I still wanted to go to San Antonio. Go Spurs Go, tbh!" ?

I don't think you would, IMO.

But that is not what happened. This leaking like it did pretty clearly (to me) means the Spurs don’t feel that way either. When you have the league run the way it is, ANY thing like this is bad. This is not something to laud him over; he shouldn’t have even taken the call.

Maybe, if there was no trade of Bertans due to his commitment I could see this. Maybe. But there was a trade and the fact it’s even out there is wrong. That’s just my view and I think many others feel the same way.

Even if it was for a longer term deal with a lot more money and opportunity I would be more forgiving. This is just flat out character issue and going against what every knows the rules to be.

[Dhbsr555]

On it's own it's not a violation of the rule and I am sure players or teams reneg on stuff during free agency all the time and we just don't hear about it...

But when a team makes 2 moves that they can't undo BASED on your verbal agreement then it becomes the biggest possible violation of the rule...

Carroll now has a 3 year contract for no other reason than Morris said he would sign and the Spurs can't undo that...

Bertans is gone for nothing because Morris said he would sign and the Spurs can't undo that...

Bertans would have been gone anyway...but he would have been gone for more than nothing if this Morris thing never happens...

If they could go back and undo the bertans trade and the carroll sign and trade and just give him a large portion of the mle...no harm no foul...

But they can't...so now they might have just given away a player who had some value for absolutely nothing...

alot of people say bertans is gone for nothing we basically traded him for the full mid level exception.. which we still have even if he’s goes to ny. We were gonna use it on Carroll but that trade opens it up for another player

[Kindergarten Cop]

https://twitter.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1148799551186382848?s=21

[spurraider21]

Negotiate and enter are the words used. If negotiations are successful there’s an agreement. Maybe I’m missing it but what in the CBA says the written contract on the required form is required to enforce a contract - or - that an oral agreement struck during the moratorium is otherwise unenforceable?
they wouldn't specifically say you can negotiate now, but can only enter an agreement afterwards... if they really meant its ok to make agreements during the moratorium. you're going against the plain language of the contract

[Marcus Bryant]

So, I was on a basketball forum and a law school class broke out.

[FkLA]

retard(lawyer) fight

[poopbox]

alot of people say bertans is gone for nothing we basically traded him for the full mid level exception.. which we still have even if he’s goes to ny. We were gonna use it on Carroll but that trade opens it up for another player

But the spurs obviously would have rather used the MLE on Carroll until Morris entered the picture...which is why they did just that...

Hilariously enough this has created a paradox for the spurs where they are now probably going to spend the mle on a one dimensional 3 point shooting "stretch" who can play the 3 or 4 and is trash at defense...

You know...like Davis Bertans...

[vy65]

they wouldn't specifically say you can negotiate now, but can only enter an agreement afterwards... if they really meant its ok to make agreements during the moratorium. you're going against the plain language of the contract

Well not really, and that’s kinda my point. The contract is silent as to successful negotiations, or an oral agreement during the moratorium. So I don’t see how any other provision - which uses different language - preempts that contingency.

As a practical matter, you have teams act as though an oral agreement is binding. Like the Tiago trade or Bert. I find it hard to believe the spurs would rely on oral agreements struck during the moratorium if they meant nothing under the CBA. Like Chinook said, the purpose behind the moratorium period is to allow for salary cap machinations. That’s frustrated if the acBA says a verbal agreement is worthless or otherwise unenforceable.

[Chinook]

https://twitter.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1148799551186382848?s=21

Yeah, exactly. Morris has made less than $29 Million in his career. This Knicks deal can increase his career earnings by 50 percent. It's not something to take lightly. I mean, sure, if he gets hurt or something, he could just opt in and get even more money. But even just looking at this season, just Morris' increase in 2019-2020 salary between the SA and NY deals is more than he made in any season he's previous played.

[daslicer]

It sucks that it looks likely the Spurs are going to lose Morris but I can't say I'm angry since the NBA has become a clown show the last several years. I have just become more desensitized to this bs with what's happened with the spurs the last few years. I will still watch the league since I like basketball but it's hard for me to take it seriously anymore. It's become more like WWE with these type of antics.

[vy65]

retard(lawyer) fight

Bend over and I’ll show you a retard lawyer fight.

[Dennis the Menace]

Prediction: Knicks sign Morris. Morris gets waived/bought out during the season. Ends up on the Lakers.

Mastermind? Lebron and Klutch. This process allows them to stack talent with their no cap space.

Muhahaha, Dr. Evil voice

[XDT76]

Losing Morris might weaken our team, but it will open up more minutes for Walker. If the coaching staffs think he is ready just leave the spot open and see what happens in Feb.

[spurraider21]

Well not really, and that’s kinda my point. The contract is silent as to successful negotiations, or an oral agreement during the moratorium. So I don’t see how any other provision - which uses different language - preempts that contingency.

As a practical matter, you have teams act as though an oral agreement is binding. Like the Tiago trade or Bert. I find it hard to believe the spurs would rely on oral agreements struck during the moratorium if they meant nothing under the CBA. Like Chinook said, the purpose behind the moratorium period is to allow for salary cap machinations. That’s frustrated if the acBA says a verbal agreement is worthless or otherwise unenforceable.
it specifically states when agreements can be entered into... AFTER the moratorium. they wouldn't have a separate clause for that if it was meaningless.

we've had players renege before. it sucks. but theres a reason there has never been any kind of challenge (let alone a successful one) by the frustrated party.

also the spurs traded tiago well before aldridge committed and they had any sort of assurances. it was a gamble

[Ice009]

Can the Spurs use the MLE money to go after Iguodala if he's bought out?

[Duncan87]

Yeah they will the full mid level 9.3 or something in ballpark to give whoever

[ginobilized]

Prediction: Knicks sign Morris. Morris gets waived/bought out during the season. Ends up on the Lakers.

Mastermind? Lebron and Klutch. This process allows them to stack talent with their no cap space.

Muhahaha, Dr. Evil voice

Sounds about right.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, exactly. Morris has made less than $29 Million in his career. This Knicks deal can increase his career earnings by 50 percent. It's not something to take lightly. I mean, sure, if he gets hurt or something, he could just opt in and get even more money. But even just looking at this season, just Morris' increase in 2019-2020 salary between the SA and NY deals is more than he made in any season he's previous played.

Probably the reason you wouldn't mind your team having the rep of rewarding loyalty.

[Duncan87]

Sucks is no deadline for this crap he can drag it as long as he wants Think Spurs look for quick answer though

[vy65]

it specifically states when agreements can be entered into... AFTER the moratorium. they wouldn't have a separate clause for that if it was meaningless.

we've had players renege before. it sucks. but theres a reason there has never been any kind of challenge (let alone a successful one) by the frustrated party.

also the spurs traded tiago well before aldridge committed and they had any sort of assurances. it was a gamble

Yeah, reading the language over, I think you have a point. Still strikes me as wrong since parties due over LOI’s all the time, which is how I view this.

[spurraider21]

Yeah they will the full mid level 9.3 or something in ballpark to give whoever
there's nobody left that justifies it

[DJR210]

Prediction: Knicks sign Morris. Morris gets waived/bought out during the season. Ends up on the Lakers.

Mastermind? Lebron and Klutch. This process allows them to stack talent with their no cap space.

Muhahaha, Dr. Evil voice

I was thinking this exact shit

[Marcus Bryant]

Sucks is no deadline for this crap he can drag it as long as he wants Think Spurs look for quick answer though

Sure but obviously they are going through Plan B currently.

[playbonner15]

LMAO. Even if this guy eventually signs, I wouldnt want any of that on the team, he wants to be with the Knicks or with LA, then better let him go. It's better to give the younger guys more playing time

[apalisoc_9]

So the spurs and knicks have a kwahi Leonard saga of theirbown? :lol

[FkLA]

Prediction: Knicks sign Morris. Morris gets waived/bought out during the season. Ends up on the Lakers.

Mastermind? Lebron and Klutch. This process allows them to stack talent with their no cap space.

Muhahaha, Dr. Evil voice

How do the Knicks benefit from this though? My guess is they'll trade him for some assets not just give him away.

[toki9]

How do the Knicks benefit from this though? My guess is they'll trade him for some assets not just give him away.

The Knicks' involvement is just the weirdest thing. Why do they even want him given their roster and what's happened to them?

[spurraider21]

LMAO. Even if this guy eventually signs, I wouldnt want any of that on the team, he wants to be with the Knicks or with LA, then better let him go. It's better to give the younger guys more playing time
the only young guy at his position is samanic who will be in the g-league

[slick'81]

I was thinking this exact shit


Wth would ny waste 15 mil just to buy him out mid season?if that happens why even watch basketball anymore

[Dennis the Menace]

How do the Knicks benefit from this though? My guess is they'll trade him for some assets not just give him away.

Well they have to spend the money on someone. Getting assets back is just gravy

[Marcus Bryant]

The Knicks' involvement is just the weirdest thing. Why do they even want him given their roster and what's happened to them?

Is there any indication the Knicks know what they have been doing for the last couple of decades?

[Clipper Nation]

Prediction: Knicks sign Morris. Morris gets waived/bought out during the season. Ends up on the Lakers.

Mastermind? Lebron and Klutch. This process allows them to stack talent with their no cap space.

Muhahaha, Dr. Evil voice

Not happening. Morris will pad his stats in New York, then get traded to a playoff team at the deadline for a draft pick.

[Ron Swanson]

Not happening. Morris will pad his stats in New York, then get traded to the Lakers at the deadline for a draft pick.

Fixed

[FkLA]

The Knicks' involvement is just the weirdest thing. Why do they even want him given their roster and what's happened to them?

I mean it kinda makes sense for them if we ignore the fact that it's unprofessional. They can get a pick out of caproom that would've just been laying around unused.

[Marcus Bryant]

Knicks are on Plan D in free agency, which is just using cap space to sign remaining serviceable players in the hopes of moving them at a later date for serviceable players. There's really no rhyme or reason, perhaps in all the activity they end up winning some games, eventually. If not then it looks like they are 'doing something' for their remaining fanbase.

[Clipper Nation]

Fixed

The Lakers don't even have any picks to trade anymore, the Pelicans already took care of that.

[TXstbobcat]

Spurs should offer Morris a G-league contract and tell him fuck you.

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs might not want to go this route, but they could always just up their offer with more years and therefore more guaranteed money. Sure, the Knicks could do the same, but then you'd be back where things appear to be anyways. There is the principle of the matter that there was already an agreement in place which both sides agreed to, but apparently that's worthless, as are most people nowadays.

[EricB]

Knicks will sign him, buy him out, and then Lakers swoop in. All this has been orchestrated by LeBron himself.

[FlAVaK]

1148809120855678976

[Dennis the Menace]

Knicks will sign him, buy him out, and then Lakers swoop in. All this has been orchestrated by LeBron himself.

Easy to see

[tim_duncan_fan]

But if he doesn't like the Spurs why did he agree to sign?

Seems like he was looking for more than the market presented to him until the last 48 hrs. We were paying the most but someone came with slightly more and he bolted.

I will say that 5milli is a lot of money, but I think this change up from him reveals that we were just his best monetary option...until we weren't.

He wasn't sold on the organization or the chance to work with Pop or the opportunity to potentially surprise the league.

He's not into us.

[FkLA]

What do the Knicks get out of buying out a guy on a 1-yr deal midseason? Come on man, use y'alls heads.

[widowmaker]

Is it racist?

NO SIR!!! To take my comment and twist it into racism is appalling to me. Do not quote me or associate me me with false accusations.

[Marcus Bryant]

Which leads us to the strange thing about this fiasco. Why are the Knicks apparently only offering one year? Yeah, free agency next year when he'll get paid (wasn't that supposed to be this year?).

Why not something more substantial, say a 3 year deal, which would put the guaranteed money at about $50MM? Knicks appear to just be seeking, if there is a method to their madness, to use their cap space after they struck out in free agency to acquire tradeable assets. If so, they might not be amenable to offering a longer term deal.

What's the max contract at the MLE? 4 years? If Spurs are sure about fit, why not? $20MM over 2 years after 2021 isn't that big of a deal, especially with Aldridge and DeRozan's contracts ending then. Put a player option in after the 2020-21 season.

[TXstbobcat]

What do the Knicks get out of buying out a guy on a 1-yr deal midseason? Come on man, use y'alls heads.

are you asking us to fully understand the complete stupidity of James Dolan???

[Marcus Bryant]

What do the Knicks get out of buying out a guy on a 1-yr deal midseason? Come on man, use y'alls heads.

Agree. This is their way of getting something, anything out of the cap space which has been a bust for them.

[Marcus Bryant]

Am kinda surprised the Spurs didn't have to offer him a longer term deal in the first place.

[Dennis the Menace]

Am kinda surprised the Spurs didn't have to offer him a longer term deal in the first place.

It’s kind of obvious at this point what he’s been looking for though.

The largest 1 year pay day and then hit free agency again next year for larger. Pure money move

[Mr. Body]

Which leads us to the strange thing about this fiasco. Why are the Knicks apparently only offering one year? Yeah, free agency next year when he'll get paid (wasn't that supposed to be this year?).

Why not something more substantial, say a 3 year deal, which would put the guaranteed money at about $50MM? Knicks appear to just be seeking, if there is a method to their madness, to use their cap space after they struck out in free agency to acquire tradeable assets. If so, they might not be amenable to offering a longer term deal.

What's the max contract at the MLE? 4 years? If Spurs are sure about fit, why not? $20MM over 2 years after 2021 isn't that big of a deal, especially with Aldridge and DeRozan's contracts ending then. Put a player option in after the 2020-21 season.

I believe because Morris thinks he can make bank next summer with a bad FA class. This shows he'd only be a Spur for a year. But then they knew this, giving him a player option for the year after this one for stability.

[ZeusWillJudge]

The biggest problem, to me at least, about this Morris mess is that it means Gay plays more minutes than I would like. The chance that he's not around at 100% come playoff time is pretty significant. Morris would have let Pop manage his minutes a little more. I don't see anyone else available that accomplishes that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet he was supposed to get a big payday this summer...

If he's that impressed by a little relatively more guaranteed, make the guaranteed number much larger that he'd have to turn down. Yes, it rewards shadiness, but if we're looking at a two year window until Pop retires and the team is significantly overhauled, it's not the worst thing.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I believe because Morris thinks he can make bank next summer with a bad FA class. This shows he'd only be a Spur for a year. But then they knew this, giving him a player option for the year after this one for stability.


I don't know how those things usually go, but it seemed likely to me that he asked for the player option, thinking that he was signing too cheap and next year wouldn't have as many huge names soaking up cap money.

[Dennis the Menace]

Maybe Thomas Robinson and Bill Self (relationship with RC) will talk to him

[TimmyBuckets]

Pussy league run by pussies.

[hombre]

While I would usually think fuck this guy, but I'm sort of why not just offer him more and be deep as fuck and make a run at it while Pop is here?

[sasaint]

Should aggressively puruse covington tbh.

This.

[spurraider21]

While I would usually think fuck this guy, but I'm sort of why not just offer him more and be deep as fuck and make a run at it while Pop is here?
the spurs offered him the most they possibly could, the MLE

[spurraider21]

Should aggressively puruse covington tbh.
they're kinda fucked now though, bertans could have been a useful trade piece in that kind of deal

[Dex]

While I would usually think fuck this guy, but I'm sort of why not just offer him more and be deep as fuck and make a run at it while Pop is here?

Because of a thing called the salary cap.

Spurs have offered him as much money as they are allowed to offer. New York can offer more because they are further under the cap.

[Hyperhypo]

No gentlemen's agreement between teams now? If a verbal agreement is made public and just the fine tuning needs to happen before the actual signature then it's BS to try and steal a player. The Knicks are a bottom barrel team for a reason. It's hard to fault a guy for wanting 50% more money but that money won't go as far in NY with the cost of living and taxes. Whatev

[Mr. Body]

What's a little more stupid is the second year offered was a player option, right?

So Morris is picking $15 million for one year on a shitty team with a logjam of power forwards.

Instead of $10 million for one year in a state with no income tax. That's fairly marginal -- he's still making more with the Knicks. But with the Spurs he also essentially gets a $10 million dollar insurance policy in case he gets hurt -- he can opt in and recuperate. This is besides the better team, more visibility, greater chance of showing teams league-wide that he's a competitive player and good team guy, along with a probable starting position.

He's picked a team going nowhere, with shitty teammates (have you seen R.J. Barrett play?), with too many players at his position, plus has shown himself to not be good for his word and have an agency that is underhanded and two faced. All for five million dollars?

He looks like he has soup instead of a brain. In purely basketball terms this looks really stupid.

[tmtcsc]

Dick move by the Knicks and dick move by Morris if he accepts it. Teams should have protection from public,
verbal agreements.

[venitian navigator]

...these are the kind of problems a guy like Morris can take with him...and the reason my first reaction to his name as a target was negative. I hoped he changed his way considering he had a decent year in Boston, aka a similar, well runned, organization like our...but look at what happend to them when they decided to go the "supposed star" route instead of developing their own talent that just took them to the ecf...
These so called "talented guys" like Irving and Morris are humoral and not reliable...and, imho, there goes down their supposed value not only as men (their word means less than nothing) but also as players ('cause their behavior on the court will follow their state of mind)...and teams unaware of this are bound to a negative future.
However, the situation can't go on like this...some agency and agents, expecially when it happens they can operate in a big market city, are going to have too much power and are gonna to interfere negatively with the business and the nba power himself thanks, mainly, to the fact that they are gonna use their power using the media to lean on their narrative...any small market team with a grain of salt in their heads are going to complain...the nba is run by nba teams, not by two/three teams in the bigger markets and their players (aka player's agents). Lets all remember that the last lock-out was precisely for solving these kind of problems and restore balance between the powers of big and small markets...as of now the big markets (ny-LA-Chicago) control less than 1/6 of nba franchises...

[wildcardX]

WHAT THE HELL! I come home from work and have to read this fuckery. The Morris Bros have a rep for being headcases but COME ON! Tweedle Dee didn't even put on the jersey yet before starting this kind of BS. So they gave away Bertans for nothing? It's the Spurs fault for finalizing deals before making sure that clown signed. Not surprised by what the Knicks did. You expect that kind of stuff from a dumpster fire of an organization for just about all of the 2000's. I bet the league doesn't give a crap. I guess no rules were broken. I'm tired of this off season, lets start preseason already.

[siraulo23]

Any chance he still ends up signing with the Spurs? :lol

[tesseractive]

Any chance he still ends up signing with the Spurs? :lol
If it were a done deal with the Knicks, it would be reported as a done deal with the Knicks. So I assume that means that it's still in play.

[Millennial_Messiah]

What's a little more stupid is the second year offered was a player option, right?

So Morris is picking $15 million for one year on a shitty team with a logjam of power forwards.

Instead of $10 million for one year in a state with no income tax. That's fairly marginal -- he's still making more with the Knicks. But with the Spurs he also essentially gets a $10 million dollar insurance policy in case he gets hurt -- he can opt in and recuperate. This is besides the better team, more visibility, greater chance of showing teams league-wide that he's a competitive player and good team guy, along with a probable starting position.

He's picked a team going nowhere, with shitty teammates (have you seen R.J. Barrett play?), with too many players at his position, plus has shown himself to not be good for his word and have an agency that is underhanded and two faced. All for five million dollars?

He looks like he has soup instead of a brain. In purely basketball terms this looks really stupid.
when you factor in the jock tax, he's still making more money to live in the greatest city in the world instead of hot, sticky, boring, little-Mexico. A no-brainer. And this isn't football, chance of debilitating injury from basketball is low. Morris did what anyone would do. Neither team is winning the championship next year, face the music. Manhattan has tens of thousands of gorgeous women walking around everyday worth banging. SA... nope, sadly.

[tbdog]

Seems like he was looking for more than the market presented to him until the last 48 hrs. We were paying the most but someone came with slightly more and he bolted.

I will say that 5milli is a lot of money, but I think this change up from him reveals that we were just his best monetary option...until we weren't.

He wasn't sold on the organization or the chance to work with Pop or the opportunity to potentially surprise the league.

He's not into us.

When taking into consideration that the Texas taxes, playing against more Texas teams, also playoffs winning income, wfuivh btw the spurs divide the winnings equally compared to other teams that give more coin the higher minute players, I wouldn't be surprised the figures would be close. This is ignoring marketing etc.

[spurs10]

Hopefully they can find someone else. Seem like a strange thing, especially as Mr. Body was saying he has a player option next year. for another $10 million for insurance. I mean $5 million is a lot of money though and his agent and him are probably looking at the pros and cons.

[EricB]

RC last I checked is still working on it. Not looking good though.

[DAF86]

Hopefully they can find someone else. Seem like a strange thing, especially as Mr. Body was saying he has a player option next year. for another $10 million for insurance. I mean $5 million is a lot of money though and his agent and him are probably looking at the pros and cons.

After taxes, difference wouldn't be 5 millions, it would be little more than 1 million. I wonder if Morris contemplated this little fact. Is 1 more million per year (and less guaranteed money overall) really worth pulling this unethical move to go play for a train wreck of an organization? Just keep your word, take the 10 millions with less taxes, get the cushion of an extra year, in case you need it, and play for a competitive team for a year. If it doesn't work out you will still have the following season.

[slick'81]

RC last I checked is still working on it. Not looking good though.


You dont say

[DeRozan m8]

This guy never seemed like a fit on the Spurs anyway...too much of a bitch

Not surprised in any of this tbh

[apalisoc_9]

Not sure what the cap situation is, but dumping Belli and onviously moving Bertans should have freed up another 2 million no?

Id try 12+13= 25 million for two years with the 2nd year as a player option

[spurraider21]

Not sure what the cap situation is, but dumping Belli and onviously moving Bertans should have freed up another 2 million no?

Id try 12+13= 25 million for two years with the 2nd year as a player option
only thing moving bertans did was that we acquired carroll without eating into the MLE. we still have the full MLE to offer. even if we move marco we're still above the cap, and so still limited to the MLE

[EricB]

Not sure what the cap situation is, but dumping Belli and onviously moving Bertans should have freed up another 2 million no?

Id try 12+13= 25 million for two years with the 2nd year as a player option


No

[mystargtr34]

Cant the Spurs offer a third year ? Make it 3 years $30M with the third being the player option. He’s turning 30 this year so that would take him to 33.

This may be a leverage tactic from Bitch Paul at Klutch to get that third year.

[Trainwreck2100]

Rich paul pulled this shit, cause he knows Spurs still have to do business with him due to murray.

[spurraider21]

Cant the Spurs offer a third year ? Make it 3 years $30M with the third being the player option. He’s turning 30 this year so that would take him to 33.

This may be a leverage tactic from Bitch Paul at Klutch to get that third year.
its doubtful morris wants it. he wants to be a FA next year where market will be better for him

[EricB]

The one behind all this is the one who owns Klutch.

[slick'81]

http://sportsagentblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/lebrons-agent-takes-pressures-critics-in-stride-klutch-sports-ceo-rich-paul-credits-his-principled-late-dad-glenville-upbringing-acdcf15acf9122b6-1024x661.jpg

[Hyperhypo]

never mind...

[Fusternino]

MLE has a hard limit, tbh.

[Hyperhypo]

MLE has a hard limit, tbh.
I realized that right after I made that post. thx

[duncan2k5]

Timvp is wrong on this issue.

I hate them too... They get away with murder in the league

[duncan2k5]

There are a lot of teams with Spurs ties in the front office, lots of teams aren't going to trust Morris or RP

U think other teams give a f*ck? If they feel like a player will make them win, they'll throw all the money at them... Look what happened when the AD deal didn't go through... They got all parties involved the fuck outta there

[monty4329]

The only thing that the Spurs could've done different was hold off on the trade of Bertans and hold off on signing Carroll on that three year deal until Morris actually signed his contract.

Why? Spurs FO is honorable people. They had an agreement, they followed through.
The piece of shit here is Klutch, hope there will be revenge on PATFO side.

[duncan2k5]

Morris playing a season in SA getting solid starting minutes on a playoff team would position him very well for free agency next summer. He got lost in the shuffle this season with so many names hitting the market.

Yes, the reported gross contract offer is substantially higher, but the take home difference is less. Getting crap minutes for a shit team doesn't seem like the best approach in a contract year, but hey, he got paid more today.

On the flip side, many ppl think playing for the Spurs puts a cap on what you're allowed to do and the stats u can achieve

[monty4329]

Any chance he still ends up signing with the Spurs? :lol

I hope not now.

[SouthTexasRancher]

NBA Commissioner Adam "Small Plastic Balls" Silver has lost control of the NBA. People like KaWhitter, Uncle, Lea'Bron'e and Marcus Morris's agent are running the league. I wouldn't want Morris at this point. But, if Silver wants to get control of the NBA back he should step up and grow a pair of balls as big as David Stern's were when Stern knocked the crap out of the Minnesota Timberwolves for signing Joe Smith to an illegal contract. If I remember correctly he took 4 or 5 first round picks away, fined them several million dollars and I think he went after their owner and did a number on him and some front office jerk. Silver should do the same damn thing to the NY Knicks. Then we'll see if this kind of shit happens again any time soon. Silver could send us Julius Randle and make the Knicks pay the difference in Randle's larger contract and the dickhead quitter asshole, Marcus Morris' contract. Then suspend MM for a year. Throw in a couple of future draft picks and this crap will stop dead in its tracks. PATFO should never have sent Davis Bertans to Washington in the first place w/o a signed contract with Morris. Giving Demarre Carroll an extra year doesn't bother me. I think he'll provide some decent minutes for us.

:flipoff you Marcus Morris and your New York Small Dicks. Your sorry ass belongs there.

[Uriel]

If there’s anyone we should be blaming for this debacle, it’s Reggie Bullock for failing his physical, which is the whole reason why the Knicks suddenly have the cap space to sign Morris in the first place.

[Spurtacular]

38 pages in 14 hours? That some kind of record?

[venitian navigator]

The point is that the agreement was made...to the point that Morris agency (clutch) made it public.
So ther's evidence to this.
Once the agreement is made, verbal or written, in most legal systems you have obligations...bacause the negotiations are already over for the main points and remains just for the details that will be translated in the final contract. But usually in most legal systems there are consequences also if your conduct in negotiations is unfair...in Italy its called pre-contractual responsability...and also this leads to consequences and sanctions...

[monty4329]

NBA Commissioner Adam "Small Plastic Balls" Silver has lost control of the NBA. People like KaWhitter, Uncle, Lea'Bron'e and Marcus Morris's agent are running the league. I wouldn't want Morris at this point. But, if Silver wants to get control of the NBA back he should step up and grow a pair of balls as big as David Stern's were when Stern knocked the crap out of the Minnesota Timberwolves for signing Joe Smith to an illegal contract. If I remember correctly he took 4 or 5 first round picks away, fined them several million dollars and I think he went after their owner and did a number on him and some front office jerk. Silver should do the same damn thing to the NY Knicks. Then we'll see if this kind of shit happens again any time soon. Silver could send us Julius Randle and make the Knicks pay the difference in Randle's larger contract and the dickhead quitter asshole, Marcus Morris' contract. Then suspend MM for a year. Throw in a couple of future draft picks and this crap will stop dead in its tracks. PATFO should never have sent Davis Bertans to Washington in the first place w/o a signed contract with Morris. Giving Demarre Carroll an extra year doesn't bother me. I think he'll provide some decent minutes for us.

:flipoff you Marcus Morris and your New York Small Dicks. Your sorry ass belongs there.

Knicks have nothing to do with it. They were certainly approached by Klutch after Bullock didn't pass the physical. Paul probably told them he never promised anything to the Spurs, on the contrary bla bla bla.

Morris should be suspended and Klutch/Paul/LBJ stripped of agency privileges.

[r0drig0lac]

U think other teams give a f*ck? If they feel like a player will make them win, they'll throw all the money at them... Look what happened when the AD deal didn't go through... They got all parties involved the fuck outta there

agree

[Dhbsr555]

My concern now isn’t Morris but Murray and that they will do everything and anything for him to not resign with us

[Mr. Body]

Knicks have nothing to do with it. They were certainly approached by Klutch after Bullock didn't pass the physical. Paul probably told them he never promised anything to the Spurs, on the contrary bla bla bla.

Morris should be suspended and Klutch/Paul/LBJ stripped of agency privileges.

What the Knicks are doing, going after an already committed player, is definitely unprofessional and unethical.

[Harry Callahan]

The point is that the agreement was made...to the point that Morris agency (clutch) made it public.
So ther's evidence to this.
Once the agreement is made, verbal or written, in most legal systems you have obligations...bacause the negotiations are already over for the main points and remains just for the details that will be translated in the final contract. But usually in most legal systems there are consequences also if your conduct in negotiations is unfair...in Italy its called pre-contractual responsability...and also this leads to consequences and sanctions...

Lender Liability cases happen all the time where the affected party was negatively impacted by the actions of a lender (deal does not get to the finish line for one reason or another). Adam Silver is an attorney and knows what is going on right now is bad for his business model. He should quietly go to the affected parties and say - "MM you and your Reps committed to SA" "its a done deal" "go there for a year". Stern was not afraid to at least pretend that he cared about the LEAGUE AS A WHOLE.

Silver is more of a passive SJW who will not cross a poor, downtrodden player who has made more money in his eight year NBA career 99.999% of the people posting on this forum will in their lifetimes. Silver's continuing passivity will make it that much harder for the majority of teams to do its business in the NBA.

I'm also wondering if all the wonderful cap room the Spurs will have in two years makes any difference if the NBA Labor situation gets REALLY ugly and we have a lockout shortly after.

I'll be interested in the Spurs as long as I have a pulse, but it is extremely difficult to enjoy the NBA as much given the direction players and owners are taking (OOPs I'm not supposed to use the term owners anymore). Sorry to offend there. Even if the owners own the FRANCHISES not THE PLAYERS who are employed by the franchises.

[monty4329]

What the Knicks are doing, going after an already committed player, is definitely unprofessional and unethical.

I guess they found out too late, I'd bet money they were lied to by Paul

[Hyperhypo]

After some research, Morris stands to make a few mill extra after taxes playing for the Knicks but that should nearly get eaten up in cost of living. Morris can start and play for a playoff team under a hall of fame coach and leave next year (or stay) or he can get lost in an over crowded frontcourt during a tank season for the Knicks

[mo7888]

I keep saying - Oubre is a restricted free agent. Any offer he receives, the Suns have the option to match. There is zero chance that the Spurs can sign him outright. It can't happen.

The ONLY chance would be a sign and trade, and Oubre would pretty much have to be pushing for that to happen. And to give him the kind of salary it would take would pretty much require trading Mills' and Belli's contracts. That sounds great for us, but I can't see any reason why the Suns would be interested. If... IF... Oubre was really pushing to get out of Phoenix, the Suns might listen to deals just to keep from losing him for nothing next year.

Now that the Suns have signed Rubio, there's really no leverage on them. The chance of getting him now is pretty close to zero. Forget about it.

So what is oubres option here? He wants more that the MLE but where's he going to get it? Phoenix has made it clear they don't want to pay it. Unless dallas shifts gears and decides he fits there no more money out there. That leaves oubre with 2 options 1) take the MLE or 2) sign the QO. If theres animosity between he and the suns a S&T is a real possibility here.

[monty4329]

My concern now isn’t Morris but Murray and that they will do everything and anything for him to not resign with us

Well it's up to him now. He can change representation. Plus we don't know yet if we really will want to extend him and for how much money. By season start he wouldn't have played more than a year, we'll see.

[Harry Callahan]

http://sportsagentblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/lebrons-agent-takes-pressures-critics-in-stride-klutch-sports-ceo-rich-paul-credits-his-principled-late-dad-glenville-upbringing-acdcf15acf9122b6-1024x661.jpg

I actually heard this guy talk the other day - maybe during the Summary League. Not impressed with how he carries himself. Money literally grows on trees when you are friends with LeBrick.

[RC_Drunkford]

this will all come down to for how much Reggie Bullock signs. The Knicks have exactly 15 Million in cap space available. If I understand this right they are trying to use the Room-Exception on Reggie Bullock (4.9 Million) instead of signing him with 10 Million of cap space. So if they sign him with the Room Exception Morris is heading to the Knicks, if Bullock demands more and they have to use cap space Morris is coming to San Antonio from what I understand

[Harry Callahan]

The Spurs are in no position to push Paul or his agency around. The influence of Klutch Sports is too pervasive. Any act of retribution against them would be brought back in kind and more. Paul and his group are teflon coated.

As the old saying goes - "You lie down with dogs, you will get fleas".

[mo7888]

this will all come down to for how much Reggie Bullock signs. The Knicks have exactly 15 Million in cap space available. If I understand this right they are trying to use the Room-Exception on Reggie Bullock (4.9 Million) instead of signing him with 10 Million of cap space. So if they sign him with the Room Exception Morris is heading to the Knicks, if Bullock demands more and they have to use cap space Morris is coming to San Antonio from what I understand

Who is Bullock's agent?

[mo7888]

The Spurs are in no position to push Paul or his agency around. The influence of Klutch Sports is too pervasive. Any act of retribution against them would be brought back in kind and more. Paul and his group is teflon coated.

As the old saying goes - "You lie down with dogs, you will get fleas".

I don't buy that. Klutch loses influence as soon as Lebron's game starts to fade. In any event, you don't look for retribution against them. You simply do what's in your best interest and the rest will take care of itself.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs are in no position to push Paul or his agency around. The influence of Klutch Sports is too pervasive. Any act of retribution against them would be brought back in kind and more. Paul and his group is teflon coated.

As the old saying goes - "You lie down with dogs, you will get fleas".

The only lingering problem is Murray. Otherwise the Spurs don't have to deal with Klutch if they don't want to. There's precedent -- Pop got jilted by another free agent years ago, similar circumstance, going back on player's word, and he refused to deal with the agent thereafter. Paul has no one over a barrel and frankly his clientele is stacked with these sorts of players -- glitz first, the shiny first, basketball later.

[szkorhetz]

The only lingering problem is Murray. Otherwise the Spurs don't have to deal with Klutch if they don't want to. There's precedent -- Pop got jilted by another free agent years ago, similar circumstance, going back on player's word, and he refused to deal with the agent thereafter. Paul has no one over a barrel and frankly his clientele is stacked with these sorts of players -- glitz first, the shiny first, basketball later.
Who was this?

[cd98]

Only so many teams have money to spend each year and some players get left out of the dance. Morris was considered a higher tier free agent that should get a good payday, but that didn’t happen. If Klutch Sports was all powerful, how come he didn’t get a better deal this year? He was a bargain to the Spurs.

[JeffDuncan]

Forget the legalities, because since it's a Morris brother, he has a perfect legal defense. Mental inability.

Spurs should shop for somebody else.

[BillMc]

So when is this dude going to make up his mind?

[YoungbuckMurray]

So when is this dude going to make up his mind?

This. Not only is he possibly leaving us high and dry he’s taking his sweet ass time too

[Ice009]

The one behind all this is the one who owns Klutch.

Who owns clutch? Lebron, or it is his friend Rich Paul? Does Rich Paul own it or just run it?

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Klutch is all about money not team building. I’m referring to how Klutch/Lebron insist on his Klutch teammates getting horribly overpaid to the detriment of his own team. It’s also about getting Klutch players out of small markets. Granted, that’s a league wide trend the players pursue on their own, but it doesn’t help markets like SA moving forward.

So yeah, it will be interesting to see how this affects Dejounte. Unlike Fun Guy, he actually expresses himself with words, so I’m optimistic, to a point.

[DJR210]

Fuck Marcus Morris, we boo him even if he signs IMO

[Dhbsr555]

This is. All planned that’s why he’s taking his time

[YGWHI]

Who was this?

[lmbebo]

on morning men (sorry if previously posted), but knicks were voiding Bullocks deal based on plantar fascitis? wtf kinda hobo crap is that ...

[YoungbuckMurray]

Maybe we should just take Bullock. We like injured guys

[CGD]

If the spurs move quickly in a different direction, they should just pull this putobitch’s offer officially.

[Marcus Bryant]

this will all come down to for how much Reggie Bullock signs. The Knicks have exactly 15 Million in cap space available. If I understand this right they are trying to use the Room-Exception on Reggie Bullock (4.9 Million) instead of signing him with 10 Million of cap space. So if they sign him with the Room Exception Morris is heading to the Knicks, if Bullock demands more and they have to use cap space Morris is coming to San Antonio from what I understand

The major “red flag” from Bullock’s physical is that he has plantar fasciitis. 80% of NBA players have that. If his agent allows the Knicks to screw Bullock over a reason that lame he needs to quit.

[picnroll]

The major “red flag” from Bullock’s physical is that he has plantar fasciitis. 80% of NBA players have that. If his agent allows the Knicks to screw Bullock over a reason that lame he needs to quit.

Likely sleaze bag Dolan will make Bullock whole in under the table ways.
Find it highly unlikely Spurs would still consider signing Morris after he pulled this dishonest crap.

[Russ]

I guess I just never understood why the Spurs moved heaven and earth (not to mention Bertans) in the first place just for a shot at this guy.

"It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?”

[GusT15]

The major “red flag” from Bullock’s physical is that he has plantar fasciitis. 80% of NBA players have that. If his agent allows the Knicks to screw Bullock over a reason that lame he needs to quit.

Or...or...Bullock's agent can just join Klutch agency!

I mean the only 2 active NBA players he has as clients are Bullock and...Drew Eubanks!

(Which means that if the Spurs were thinking about offering the last roster spot to Eubanks over Robinson-Morris' twins BFF-David Bauman (Bullock's agent) knew about that... Just saying)

[RC_Drunkford]

Who is Bullock's agent?

David Bauman of Independent Sports and Entertainment

[RC_Drunkford]

The major “red flag” from Bullock’s physical is that he has plantar fasciitis. 80% of NBA players have that. If his agent allows the Knicks to screw Bullock over a reason that lame he needs to quit.

he's also 20 pounds heavier than he used to be according to reports. But I'm not sure if that's enough to go from 21/2 to 4.9/1. Even if they settle for 6 Million per year Spurs would get Morris

[GusT15]

Also LJ completely jinxed this year's Free Agency with this thread title

"The Spurs Surprisingly Straightforward Free Agency Outlook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279323)"

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279323

Nothing straightforward about it by the looks of it tbh :lol

[tonight...you]

Garrett is a COTY and the Cowboys have a top 3 roster in the NFL currently. There is hope, unlike with Poop and the SA Shits :lol
poor Poop...

[monty4329]

Klutch is all about money not team building. I’m referring to how Klutch/Lebron insist on his Klutch teammates getting horribly overpaid to the detriment of his own team. It’s also about getting Klutch players out of small markets. Granted, that’s a league wide trend the players pursue on their own, but it doesn’t help markets like SA moving forward.

So yeah, it will be interesting to see how this affects Dejounte. Unlike Fun Guy, he actually expresses himself with words, so I’m optimistic, to a point.

That's an issue for the league and next CBA negotiations. Agents have a duty towards their player only. If the mandate from the player is make me money, that's it.

To renege is different thing, clearly. it happens all the time in life and business, sometimes with no consequences for the a-hole who reneges. Hope it is not the case this time.

[exstatic]

Who was this?

LaMond Murray. He was supposed to fill in for Sean while he recovered from his kidney transplant.

[picnroll]

LaMond Murray. He was supposed to fill in for Sean while he recovered from his kidney transplant.

Weren’t there also issues with Derek Anderson and his agent?

[PuzzBeterson]

If the Spurs geet fed up with Klutch, do you think they could look to move Dejounte?

[cd98]

Spurs will just bid their time. They'll sign Dejounte or whatever, if he warrants it. If he has a bad season, then they'll give Klutch the middle finger. At some point, Klutch will need the Spurs and their cap space for their client and the Spurs will turn them down. Franchises are not powerless. If Klutch had all the power, then Morris will be on a multi-year deal and not settling for the MLE or the Knick's paltry offer.

[BackHome]

this will all come down to for how much Reggie Bullock signs. The Knicks have exactly 15 Million in cap space available. If I understand this right they are trying to use the Room-Exception on Reggie Bullock (4.9 Million) instead of signing him with 10 Million of cap space. So if they sign him with the Room Exception Morris is heading to the Knicks, if Bullock demands more and they have to use cap space Morris is coming to San Antonio from what I understand

If I am Bullock and I know my teams is trying to low ball me in taking 4.9 but bringing in another player for 15 million no way do I take that. I tell my agent to go get MO Money - 15 mill pot.

[Marcus Bryant]

https://nypost.com/2019/07/09/reggie-bullocks-knicks-future-on-hold-over-health-issue/


LAS VEGAS — The Knicks have announced the signing of five players, but not shooting guard Reggie Bullock, whose signing is on hold.

An NBA source indicated a red flag with his physical has delayed his signing. Bullock’s contract terms were being reworked as a result, according to sources. There is concern Bullock’s health would affect his ability to play the entire season.

The Knicks had agreed to sign Bullock to a two-year, $21 million deal before the health issue arose.

Bullock was bothered by plantar fasciitis last season, limiting him to 63 games, and that is a lingering issue that ultimately could lead to surgery in some cases. The 27-year-old averaged 11.3 points and shot 37.7 percent from 3 last season.

Bullock’s agent David Bauman told The Post the sides are “working toward a deal,” calling president Steve Mills and general manager Scott Perry “mensches.”

If the Knicks back out on Bullock or sign him to the minimum, they would have $14.8 million of cap space left and the Knicks have turned their attention toward forward Marcus Morris, who played for the Celtics last season.

According to ESPN, Morris could renege on his two-year, $20 million deal with San Antonio in an unusual move considering the Spurs traded Davis Bertans to open cap space for Morris. The Knicks have offered Morris a one-year, $14.8 million contract, according to Yahoo Sports.

Yahoo reported the Spurs are still “optimistic” they will sign Morris, though the team has reached out to other power forwards.

Even without Bullock, the Knicks are still stocked at shooting guard as they also signed Wayne Ellington, the team announced Tuesday. Also officially announced as Knicks were Taj Gibson, Elfrid Payton, Bobby Portis and Julius Randle.

“We’re thrilled to welcome Wayne, Taj, Elfrid, Bobby and Julius to New York,” Perry said in a statement. “Collectively, we’re adding a mix of extremely talented and experienced multi-dimensional players who will improve our team as we continue building out a deep and versatile roster. These players are all tough-minded, motivated and ready to compete, and we’re excited to have them as part of the Knicks family.”

The Knicks had hoped to net Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving with their cap space, but that failed to materialize and they quickly turned to Plan B in agreeing to terms with six players in the first 20 hours of free agency.

[Blackhaus]

This is such a weird situation, and of course the Spurs are involved in it. The Bullock situation is strange just the way they are stating it. “Knicks are re-evaluating Bullocks fitness to play a full season”???

[GreekSpursfan]

If i'm Pop i'm already thinking ways of getting back to them Klutch bitches tbh all the way to finally shutting them down. Enough is enough.

[Marcus Bryant]

Weren’t there also issues with Derek Anderson and his agent?

:lol Mr. Loyalty himself.

[Marcus Bryant]

The forum seems fixated on Klutch/Morris but the Knicks are up to some shady shit in this episode.

[duncan2150]

The forum seems fixated on Klutch/Morris but the Knicks are up to some shady shit in this episode.

+ 1 their move is such disrespectful

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

That's an issue for the league and next CBA negotiations. Agents have a duty towards their player only. If the mandate from the player is make me money, that's it.

To renege is different thing, clearly. it happens all the time in life and business, sometimes with no consequences for the a-hole who reneges. Hope it is not the case this time.

True, in theory, but no other agency is owned by an NBA player, and so Klutch appears to operate under different assumptions.

[Twisted_Dawg]

The Spurs are in no position to push Paul or his agency around. The influence of Klutch Sports is too pervasive. Any act of retribution against them would be brought back in kind and more. Paul and his group are teflon coated.

As the old saying goes - "You lie down with dogs, you will get fleas".


I don't buy that. Klutch loses influence as soon as Lebron's game starts to fade. In any event, you don't look for retribution against them. You simply do what's in your best interest and the rest will take care of itself.

Supposedly other agents are reluctant to steer their clients to the Lakers because of Klutch Sports involvement there. Agents certainly don't want to help empower a competitor. My guess is teams have made note of what happened and in the future will be very careful in finalizing deals in this new NBA.

[exstatic]

I don't buy that. Klutch loses influence as soon as Lebron's game starts to fade. In any event, you don't look for retribution against them. You simply do what's in your best interest and the rest will take care of itself.

Maybe not when it fades, but certainly after he retires. At that point, he just becomes another failed rapper and movie star. Players won't be trying to curry favor with him any more.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Maybe not when it fades, but certainly after he retires. At that point, he just becomes another failed rapper and movie star. Players won't be trying to curry favor with him any more.

True. For example, no one gives a shit about playing for Jordan in Charlotte...other than Parker, which is kind of endearing for the current state of things.

[Dhbsr555]

Just pull his offer Spurs and sign someone he’s taking his sweet ass time

[picnroll]

Supposedly other agents are reluctant to steer their clients to the Lakers because of Klutch Sports involvement there. Agents certainly don't want to help empower a competitor. My guess is teams have made note of what happened and in the future will be very careful in finalizing deals in this new NBA.

I’d hope/think Clutch has lost major trust from NBA front offices from this reneging and going forward it will be more difficult for Clutch to conclude transactions, particularly for mid/lower level players.

[Dverde]

Just pull his offer Spurs and sign someone he’s taking his sweet ass time

I figured the Zoo pulling his VIP passes would work...I think stuff is being addressed behind the scenes. This isn’t a superstar, league can screw up his antics.

[exstatic]

I’d hope/think Clutch has lost major trust from NBA front offices from this reneging and going forward it will be more difficult for Clutch to conclude transactions, particularly for mid/lower level players.

I would say that every FO outside of NY and LA hates them. NBA agents are limited to a certain percentage of salary for their commissions. That is not the case with outside endorsements. They can grab 30 or 40% if they can get the player to agree. That makes it in Klutch's best interest to move any player that shows All Star or All NBA potential to a big market to leverage those outside opportunities to increase their commission $$$.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1148969515268661248

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1148969515268661248

"We want a player willing to renege on his bonded word to mentor our impressionable players. Also we'll do this by recruiting a player under a verbal contract with another team, one of the most respected in modern sports."

[dbreiden83080]

Great go lose 70 games in NY..

[Russ]

Skip Bayless says Rich Paul did this to get even with him?

Is this possible? :wow

:lol

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1148969515268661248

I think PF isn't enough of an issue, especially since it was a KNOWN issue, for NY to back out of Bullock's deal.

[Spurs da champs]

Skip Bayless says Rich Paul did this to get even with him?

Is this possible? :wow

:lol

:lmao Skip is funny af even when he is being totally serious.

[toki9]

The forum seems fixated on Klutch/Morris but the Knicks are up to some shady shit in this episode.

Yep. Ultimately it's Morris/Klutch decision--but Morris is a knucklehead and Klutch is Klutch. The Knicks FO's behavior is puzzling and, as you say, shady. None of this happens without them instigating it. It's like a guy walking by a wedding trying to seduce the bride just before the vows...

[Atl Spur]

Yep. Ultimately it's Morris/Klutch decision--but Morris is a knucklehead and Klutch is Klutch. The Knicks FO's behavior is puzzling and, as you say, shady. None of this happens without them instigating it. It's like a guy walking by a wedding trying to seduce the bride just before the vows...

Not really; this happens all the time behind closed doors! I don’t agree with it but I’m also not going to have a meltdown over this player/agency. Pops/Spurs memories are long I suspect!