Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 Free Agency Discussion Thread

[exstatic]

He hasn't fixed DeRozan's shot.

DD’s issues with the three are between his ears. He was shooting them just fine, and in moderate volume at the beginning of the season.

[poopbox]

My mind is sort of blown by how many people think Simmons wouldn't be a massive upgrade over any player on the roster. I do think there's a limit to what the team can trade for him, but it'd be easy to make a playoff team around him. The only player who'd even have an argument against him is a fictionally fully healthy Derrick White. Theoretically, the Spurs could trade Murray, Poeltl and incentive to take Simmons into cap space. If they then do the DMDR for Kuzma/KCP trade, they'd have up to $10 Million in cap space. Earmark the room exception to bring Dieng back, draft a center like Queta with the not-12 pick (28 in my Capulator mock-up),and you have a pretty chunk of coin to add shooting or even bring Mills back. Round out the roster buy locking up Weatherspoon and KBD to long-term cheap deals, and you get:

White, Mills, Jones
Vassell, Walker, Weatherspoon
Johnson, KCP, KBD
Simmons, Kuzma, Samanic
Dieng, Eubanks, Queta

I'd prefer to swap Mills out for a capable guard who can run an offense when White is hurt, but Patty should fit well with Simmons, and the culture and all that. An alternative to either Kuzma or Caldwell-Pop could be a Schroeder S&T, but I'm not the biggest fan of that. Maybe the Spurs could take back Hill in the Simmons trade while the Lakers sent Dennis to Philly? That might actually work better, and it would be fun to have George back after the last few crazy years to his career. They'd have to find a rotation-caliber forward with the salary saved though.

White, Hill, Jones
Vassell, Walker, Weatherspoon
Johnson, (FA Wing), KBD
Simmons, Kuzma, Samanic
Dieng, Eubanks, Queta

Or other combos. Either way, I think a team built around Simmons is functional and better than what SA is running with currently. It'd not hard to have good spacing if you don't devote like 60 percent of your minutes to non-shooters. Swapping out Jakob for Dieng or another stretch-five is crucial, so keeping White and Vassell becomes a huge deal, as is getting a guy to spell White and take over for Dieng as he stops being even a technical starter. The center problem would likely need to be addressed with the MLE the following season

A massive upgrade at doing what exactly ? Not shooting 3's ? Not making free throws ? Being so scared at shooting the ball that you literally pass out of an open dunk that might have won a playoff series ?

Build around Ben Simmons ? WHAT :rollin? What exactly are you building around a 6 "10" power forward who wants to be a point guard but can't shoot, won't shoot, and can't make freethrows ?

The spurs are pretty much devoid of outside shooting and your answer to that question is to trade for Ben fucking Simmons :rollin ?

Bring Patty Mills back ? Why ? So he can shoot 28% from 3 in the last 30 games of the season like he has done the last 3 years ?

Are you secretly Brian Wright ?:rollin

[poopbox]

What's disturbing about Simmons is he hasn't improved an inch since he started in the league. Last year was adv. statistically his worst. That's forgiveable, but otherwise he's not doing much of anything right now he wasn't four years ago.

Which makes sense because outside of being tall and running fast Ben Simmons doesn't actually have a high level basketball skill...

When he gets traded to a team that doesn't have a dominant big like Embiid to carry him he is going to be a significantly worse player...

[Chinook]

A massive upgrade at doing what exactly ? Not shooting 3's ? Not making free throws ? Being so scared at shooting the ball that you literally pass out of an open dunk that might have won a playoff series ?

Build around Ben Simmons ? WHAT :rollin? What exactly are you building around a 6 "10" power forward who wants to be a point guard but can't shoot, won't shoot, and can't make freethrows ?

The spurs are pretty much devoid of outside shooting and your answer to that question is to trade for Ben fucking Simmons :rollin ?

Bring Patty Mills back ? Why ? So he can shoot 28% from 3 in the last 30 games of the season like he has done the last 3 years ?

Are you secretly Brian Wright ?:rollin

Yeah, way to act like a baby...

Yes, the plan would be to build around a guy who even with those flaws would be the best player on the team. I'm not for trading like eight firsts for him. But if the cost is mainly those guy and present draft value, then you can build and still be flexible.

The Spurs' problem isn't shooting. The Murray, White, DeRozan, Johnson Poeltl lineup's problem shooting. The White, Vassell, Johnson, Simmons, Dieng lineup has good spacing. The problem is that their main perimeter players struggle with shooting, making it hard to put shooting around them. Shooting will only really be fixed by subtracting more poor shooters than you add, and this deal is a net-two shoooters upgraded.

Mills is actually a good player. His FIBA performance is showing he's still fine physically. Obviously, him being an icon of Simmons' home country helps. And as I said in the above post, I don't necessarily want him back, but he'll probably be back anyway. May as well figure that into off-season plans, since he'd end up blowing them up by randomly eating cap space otherwise.

[John B]

Eh. I get all the old school shit and doing whatever it takes to have a better winning situation, that doesnt mean I agree with it. Theres always a better way to handle things. In any other professional environment, What Damian said is poor leadership, simple as that.

Kobe would also call out his teammates. Likewise Curry earlier in the season. It depends how much weight that player has. I think Lilliard is doing his part to get a Collins or a Simmons. He’s not getting any younger, with all these players forming super-teams.

[Chinook]

Which makes sense because outside of being tall and running fast Ben Simmons doesn't actually have a high level basketball skill...

When he gets traded to a team that doesn't have a dominant big like Embiid to carry him he is going to be a significantly worse player...

Embiid's not carrying Simmons. They are basically both trying to do their things without the other. Obviously Joel is the better player, and I'd far prefer trying to acquire him. But he dominates the ball in the post, which means a lot of the time, Simmons is sort of uselessly sitting in the dunker spot. A team who's actually built around Simmons would have a role-playing stretch-five who basically let Simmons have the paint to himself.

[Chinook]

How can you be so high on Simmons yet so low on DJ? I know you and some others on here done believe me but DJ is the better player and will continue to be the better player. You keep talking about spacing but then you want to bring in Ben when DJ shoots and makes more 3s and way more mid range 2s. you mention needing a floor spacing 5 with Ben (which I agree) but embid shot 3s in Philly and it did not work. why would it work here?

Okay, so Murray isn't better than Simmons. Like I hope he improves and becomes a better player, but he wasn't last year. It wasn't all that close outside of counting stats. To put it this way, folks are killing Ben over not shooting and for being bad at free throws, but he was still way more efficient than DJM. While Murray did have a more positive effect on the offense (5.4 to Simmons' 4) that is because Philly' bench had a higher offensive rating in general. There wasn't much of a drop-off because Philly was a contender and the Spurs had like Walker and Eubanks as their main bench players. In other offensive metrics like eFG% and AST% Simmons came out on top.

Saying Ben has no offensive skill is wrong. He's good at scoring on the shots he takes and at getting other guys the ball in good spots. A team can put together a fine enough offense with him on the floor, despite his shooting. He's a flawed player -- heavily so. That puts a cap on what a team can do with him as their best player if he can't fix them somewhat. But to be clear, we're talking about the cap being a second-round loss or a WCF run if there are a whole bunch of injuries. We aren't talking about the play-in being the cap like we're looking at now with the current perimeter players. Simmons isn't my top target to fill the PF hole, but he's certainly viable if the deal is good enough.

The point of my post was to say a) Simmons is better than the guys on the roster (since that's in dispute on ST and basically nowhere else) and b) It's not hard to build a team around Simmons using mostly the guys on the roster.

[John B]

I think we have a chance with Simmons via Mills. But yeah, it would mean getting Murray and Poeltl out and replacing them with shooters. I don’t think Simmons would play PF, but has to guard big in the defensive end, rim run, maybe switch with Vassell/Keldon on the defensive end. I think if PATFO thinks they can fix, and Simmons could use a fresh start, an ally like Mills could be the ticket.

Yup I’m sold, bring in Simmons :lol. Maybe draft Duarte then.

[rankingtear]

My mind is sort of blown by how many people think Simmons wouldn't be a massive upgrade over any player on the roster. I do think there's a limit to what the team can trade for him, but it'd be easy to make a playoff team around him. The only player who'd even have an argument against him is a fictionally fully healthy Derrick White. Theoretically, the Spurs could trade Murray, Poeltl and incentive to take Simmons into cap space. If they then do the DMDR for Kuzma/KCP trade, they'd have up to $10 Million in cap space. Earmark the room exception to bring Dieng back, draft a center like Queta with the not-12 pick (28 in my Capulator mock-up),and you have a pretty chunk of coin to add shooting or even bring Mills back. Round out the roster buy locking up Weatherspoon and KBD to long-term cheap deals, and you get:

White, Mills, Jones
Vassell, Walker, Weatherspoon
Johnson, KCP, KBD
Simmons, Kuzma, Samanic
Dieng, Eubanks, Queta

I'd prefer to swap Mills out for a capable guard who can run an offense when White is hurt, but Patty should fit well with Simmons, and the culture and all that. An alternative to either Kuzma or Caldwell-Pop could be a Schroeder S&T, but I'm not the biggest fan of that. Maybe the Spurs could take back Hill in the Simmons trade while the Lakers sent Dennis to Philly? That might actually work better, and it would be fun to have George back after the last few crazy years to his career. They'd have to find a rotation-caliber forward with the salary saved though.

White, Hill, Jones
Vassell, Walker, Weatherspoon
Johnson, (FA Wing), KBD
Simmons, Kuzma, Samanic
Dieng, Eubanks, Queta

Or other combos. Either way, I think a team built around Simmons is functional and better than what SA is running with currently. It'd not hard to have good spacing if you don't devote like 60 percent of your minutes to non-shooters. Swapping out Jakob for Dieng or another stretch-five is crucial, so keeping White and Vassell becomes a huge deal, as is getting a guy to spell White and take over for Dieng as he stops being even a technical starter. The center problem would likely need to be addressed with the MLE the following season

I hate this lineups that basically needs you to trade for Myles Turner. DJ & Poeltl + some offense in between is much more flexible way to build a lineup.

[Chinook]

I think we have a chance with Simmons via Mills. But yeah, it would mean getting Murray and Poeltl out and replacing them with shooters. I don’t think Simmons would play PF, but has to guard big in the defensive end, rim run, maybe switch with Vassell/Keldon on the defensive end. I think if PATFO thinks they can fix, and Simmons could use a fresh start, an ally like Mills could be the ticket.

Yup I’m sold, bring in Simmons :lol. Maybe draft Duarte then.

The beauty of a White, Vassell, Johnson, Simmons, Dieng lineup is that you can list it as Simmons, White, Vassell, Johnson, Dieng. That soothes Ben's ego while actually keeping those guys in positions they basically played last year anyway. Johnson's ability to guard a lot of fours means you can legit direct-match or cross-guard, basically moving Simmons around to guard the best player while White moves around to guard the second-best.

[Chinook]

I hate this lineups that basically needs you to trade for Myles Turner. DJ & Poeltl + some offense in between is much more flexible way to build a lineup.

Stretch-five isn't that rare of a position anymore. As I mentioned, the Spurs already have one on their roster in Dieng and will probably get a second one with Eubanks by the end of the off-season. The most important thing is that White and Simmons are signed for four more years. You don't need to have the perfect center in year one. You can draft, develop, sign or otherwise trade for one going forward. For all we know, the Spurs draft Kai Jones and then have their perfect guy developed enough in a year. Turner is far from the only candidate.

[John B]

I agree. DJ having the comparable stats is because Simmons gets to watch Embiid half of the time. If Simmons is the focal point of offense, he will be a much better player than DJ because of his ability to score big in the paint and drawing the defense to him, while DJ stops to shoot or pass and still working on finishing strong in the rims.

I think Mills would earn his retirement contract mentoring Simmons. Heck, let’s bring Baynes too while we’re at it :lol:lol

[rankingtear]

Stretch-five isn't that rare of a position anymore. As I mentioned, the Spurs already have one on their roster in Dieng and will probably get a second one with Eubanks by the end of the off-season. The most important thing is that White and Simmons are signed for four more years. You don't need to have the perfect center in year one. You can draft, develop, sign or otherwise trade for one going forward. For all we know, the Spurs draft Kai Jones and then have their perfect guy developed enough in a year. Turner is far from the only candidate.

Last one to come from the draft was 2015 and he shots 33% from three. Teams barely guard 33% 3pt shooting centers.

[The Truth #6]

The short answer why it won’t work with Simmons in San Antonio is that he doesn’t want to play the four as everyone is suggesting. Coach Brown already tried that and it flew like a lead balloon. It’s not like Philly didn’t try different things with him. Simmons would necessitate larger changes to work around him is my first thought.

[John B]

The short answer why it won’t work with Simmons in San Antonio is that he doesn’t want to play the four as everyone is suggesting. Coach Brown already tried that and it flew like a lead balloon. It’s not like Philly didn’t try different things with him. Simmons would necessitate larger changes to work around him is my first thought.
I think Chinook addressed that. Simmons will play PG and can switch with White or Vassell in the defensive end. With his skills, Simmons needs to play PG and take his man to the hole.

[Chinook]

Last one to come from the draft was 2015 and he shots 33% from three. Teams barely guard 33% 3pt shooting centers.

That doesn't change that they're all over the place in the league right now. It's harder to find teams without one than with at this point. I don't think the college game is good for shooting centers yet, and a lot of future centers still play the four down there.

[objective]

I don't see what's SO captivating about Simmons.

The roster around him in Philly was just about a much better version of the Spurs roster and Simmons was a head case disaster.

Embiid was a monster version of poeltl
Harris was a better mature bigger version of keldon
Curry was a much better shooter and playmaker than Lonnie
Thybulle was a better defending though worse sitting Vassell

If Simmons couldn't get it done with them, would he do it in San Antonio? And the Spurs probably wouldn't be bad enough to get high picks, if they even had any picks left after trading for Simmons. And no capspace to get anything big either.

On top of that, I don't find Simmons enjoyable to watch. If the Spurs aren't going to be contenders, they could at least be fun to watch, and I don't have fun when players pass up open shots and are afraid to get fouled.

[tbdog]

Chinook, who's your top target to fill the 4 if Simmons aren't it?

[Chinook]

The issue wouldn't be cap space. It's not hard to find a trade that let's the Spurs use all of their space first before getting the Simmons deal done. The issue is the bad market. The only player worth spending a ton of money on is Collins, and he and Simmons don't fit together at all. I wouldn't trade take negative or neutral players into cap space if the goal were to build around Simmons.

[mo7888]

The issue wouldn't be cap space. It's not hard to find a trade that let's the Spurs use all of their space first before getting the Simmons deal done. The issue is the bad market. The only player worth spending a ton of money on is Collins, and he and Simmons don't fit together at all. I wouldn't trade take negative or neutral players into cap space if the goal were to build around Simmons.

I would think a player like Gary Trent Jr could be a target if we were trading for Simmons..

[Chinook]

Chinook, who's your top target to fill the 4 if Simmons aren't it?

Collins is the top target in my book. Then it's probably Simmons and Harris from Philly. I'd be willing to eat Tobais' deal but not add value to it. I'd be watching Portland carefully to see if they blow it up, because Covington would be interesting if the Spurs are going to keep White and Murray. There are rumors that Siakam can be had, and if GS doesn't get him, SA could probably make a compelling offer that doesn't sacrifice too much. I'm not against Porter or Portis. As I've said before, I'm not even against getting Kuzma back in a DeRozan trade. There are even guys in the draft I think could do it.

I like Simmons quite a bit and think the playoff loss is weighing too much on other people's opinions, but I wouldn't be held hostage by Philly in a trade. The Spurs aren't a Simmons away from contending, even as a dark horse.

[rankingtear]

That doesn't change that they're all over the place in the league right now. It's harder to find teams without one than with at this point. I don't think the college game is good for shooting centers yet, and a lot of future centers still play the four down there.

Nobody is really shooting 3 at a good clip while providing good defense to matter. Porzingis in 2019-20 was the only one to provide the theoretical impact of a stretch 5 and that is over now with all the injuries. Your lineups most crucial piece is developing or drafting a unicorn.

[The Truth #6]

I think Chinook addressed that. Simmons will play PG and can switch with White or Vassell in the defensive end. With his skills, Simmons needs to play PG and take his man to the hole.


Ahh, didn’t see that. My bad. That does work better then, theoretically. So yes, if we could trade DDR and DJM for Simmons then I’m more intrigued. Not sure if Philly wants two non outside shooters, though.

[Teamduncan21]

Collins is the top target in my book. Then it's probably Simmons and Harris from Philly. I'd be willing to eat Tobais' deal but not add value to it. I'd be watching Portland carefully to see if they blow it up, because Covington would be interesting if the Spurs are going to keep White and Murray. There are rumors that Siakam can be had, and if GS doesn't get him, SA could probably make a compelling offer that doesn't sacrifice too much. I'm not against Porter or Portis. As I've said before, I'm not even against getting Kuzma back in a DeRozan trade. There are even guys in the draft I think could do it.

I like Simmons quite a bit and think the playoff loss is weighing too much on other people's opinions, but I wouldn't be held hostage by Philly in a trade. The Spurs aren't a Simmons away from contending, even as a dark horse.

The last line... Someone mentioned at peak we will end up like 6ers. We are barely winning. If we can be like sixers today in 3-4 years that's a win already.

Simmons has his weak point. But as whole, we are a non playoff team with no star player, mid level picks, and not attractive free agent destination.

To get a star player. We need to tank to draft. This is another way. Get a young player who can at least make us competitive. I'm not big fan by any means. But we need to have a direction or center piece.

And the reason I'm not that of a big fan is Simmons is really just slightly better than dejounte Murray. He is more hyped. But he is not crazily better than dejounte. But at least dejounte can shoot.

Would hope for someone else. But I am not opposed to Simmons. Kinda lukewarm I guess

[mo7888]

Collins is the top target in my book. Then it's probably Simmons and Harris from Philly. I'd be willing to eat Tobais' deal but not add value to it. I'd be watching Portland carefully to see if they blow it up, because Covington would be interesting if the Spurs are going to keep White and Murray. There are rumors that Siakam can be had, and if GS doesn't get him, SA could probably make a compelling offer that doesn't sacrifice too much. I'm not against Porter or Portis. As I've said before, I'm not even against getting Kuzma back in a DeRozan trade. There are even guys in the draft I think could do it.

I like Simmons quite a bit and think the playoff loss is weighing too much on other people's opinions, but I wouldn't be held hostage by Philly in a trade. The Spurs aren't a Simmons away from contending, even as a dark horse.

I think what you lay our here is part of the mentality that's got everyone here so polarized (one way or the other on Simmons). We are so used to the Spurs having limited flexibility that we get caught up fixating on one particular path. We are not used to literally having every path open to us and it's more than some can process. If you make an argument in favor of Simmons then, to some here, you're arguing against other paths, and that's just not the case. There's a difference between evaluating what one path 'could' look like and promoting that particular path. Personally, evaluating those different paths makes things more interesting right now than usual.

[Chinook]

I would think a player like Gary Trent Jr could be a target if we were trading for Simmons..

I've thought about him a bit, since the Spurs can without too much difficulty slip a second max offer sheet out there even if they get Collins. It would require them moving one of Murray or White, I think. But that's not horrible if the team is going to max out another guard. Not that I'm saying Trent is a max-worthy player. It's more that he was the next-best thing to spend a max on.

But yeah, they could sign him if they were trading Murray or White for Simmons. They'd have the cap space either way.

[Teamduncan21]

I think what you lay our here is part of the mentality that's got everyone here so polarized (one way or the other on Simmons). We are so used to the Spurs having limited flexibility that we get caught up fixating on one particular path. We are not used to literally having every path open to us and it's more than some can process. If you make an argument in favor of Simmons then, to some here, you're arguing against other paths, and that's just not the case. There's a difference between evaluating what one path 'could' look like and promoting that particular path. Personally, evaluating those different paths makes things more interesting right now than usual.

Free agency is a bit thin as of now.
Top choices are like Collins who we have to overpay. Or Lauri.

And they are not mutually exclusive, can still get them while getting Simmons.

The other rumor being DeRozan for kuzma and parts. Also meh deal. Most of our paths are pretty lack luster so far.

I think there was some cj McCollum talks a bit earlier this offseason

[Chinook]

I think what you lay our here is part of the mentality that's got everyone here so polarized (one way or the other on Simmons). We are so used to the Spurs having limited flexibility that we get caught up fixating on one particular path. We are not used to literally having every path open to us and it's more than some can process. If you make an argument in favor of Simmons then, to some here, you're arguing against other paths, and that's just not the case. There's a difference between evaluating what one path 'could' look like and promoting that particular path. Personally, evaluating those different paths makes things more interesting right now than usual.

Yeah, I did say at some point that I was mostly talking about Simmons to defend him as a player in general and to lay out a path toward building around him. I have my horses, but this flexibility is what the Spurs sacrificed to get. It sucks that it didn't end up being the huge bizarre that we all thought it was going to be, but the team has space and tradeable assets and a golden opportunity to remake the roster in a big way.

[talkspurs]

The last line... Someone mentioned at peak we will end up like 6ers. We are barely winning. If we can be like sixers today in 3-4 years that's a win already.

Simmons has his weak point. But as whole, we are a non playoff team with no star player, mid level picks, and not attractive free agent destination.

To get a star player. We need to tank to draft. This is another way. Get a young player who can at least make us competitive. I'm not big fan by any means. But we need to have a direction or center piece.

And the reason I'm not that of a big fan is Simmons is really just slightly better than dejounte Murray. He is more hyped. But he is not crazily better than dejounte. But at least dejounte can shoot.

Would hope for someone else. But I am not opposed to Simmons. Kinda lukewarm I guess

So you want get someoene slightly better for double the cost? How does this make any sense? I really dont think Ben is better then DJM. he is different and better at something but DJ has things he is better at as well. Just because Ben is getting to the 2nd round of the PLayoffs out there does not mean he will in the west. Most people would agree that Philly has a better bench and a better Center. You take those out and do the even make the PO? 1 player does not make a team. There is also a reason they are trying to trade him. Right now they are trying to get max value but I believe if no one will give that then they will take less.

[talkspurs]

I've thought about him a bit, since the Spurs can without too much difficulty slip a second max offer sheet out there even if they get Collins. It would require them moving one of Murray or White, I think. But that's not horrible if the team is going to max out another guard. Not that I'm saying Trent is a max-worthy player. It's more that he was the next-best thing to spend a max on.

But yeah, they could sign him if they were trading Murray or White for Simmons. They'd have the cap space either way.

you cant Sign Collins to max and then trade for Ben and sign trent to a close to max deal. Simmons would count against the cap as soon as he is traded here. If we were to sign Trent and Colloins first then we could not trade for Ben as he would no longer fit into cap space. We could send out players but one of them would not be DDR as in order to sign the other 2 players we would have to renounce him.

[talkspurs]

Okay, so Murray isn't better than Simmons. Like I hope he improves and becomes a better player, but he wasn't last year. It wasn't all that close outside of counting stats. To put it this way, folks are killing Ben over not shooting and for being bad at free throws, but he was still way more efficient than DJM. While Murray did have a more positive effect on the offense (5.4 to Simmons' 4) that is because Philly' bench had a higher offensive rating in general. There wasn't much of a drop-off because Philly was a contender and the Spurs had like Walker and Eubanks as their main bench players. In other offensive metrics like eFG% and AST% Simmons came out on top.

Saying Ben has no offensive skill is wrong. He's good at scoring on the shots he takes and at getting other guys the ball in good spots. A team can put together a fine enough offense with him on the floor, despite his shooting. He's a flawed player -- heavily so. That puts a cap on what a team can do with him as their best player if he can't fix them somewhat. But to be clear, we're talking about the cap being a second-round loss or a WCF run if there are a whole bunch of injuries. We aren't talking about the play-in being the cap like we're looking at now with the current perimeter players. Simmons isn't my top target to fill the PF hole, but he's certainly viable if the deal is good enough.

The point of my post was to say a) Simmons is better than the guys on the roster (since that's in dispute on ST and basically nowhere else) and b) It's not hard to build a team around Simmons using mostly the guys on the roster.

So Simmons has lower offence because his team is better but DJM does not have less ast because his team does not make as many baskets? BTW DJM also was not the main player on his team that would belong to DDR. Ben only takes close shots which will tend to help his fg%.

You talk about a cap being second rd PO but that is where Ben is getting on a solid team. Put Murray on that team I bet they get there. Ben would not help this team get further.

[Chinook]

you cant Sign Collins to max and then trade for Ben and sign trent to a close to max deal. Simmons would count against the cap as soon as he is traded here. If we were to sign Trent and Colloins first then we could not trade for Ben as he would no longer fit into cap space. We could send out players but one of them would not be DDR as in order to sign the other 2 players we would have to renounce him.

First, yes you could get all three of them at the same time. You wouldn't, as that would guy the roster, but you could. Second and more importantly, though, I think you've missed the nature of mind and Mo's conversation if you think we were talking about combining all three of them. We were talking about multiple scenarios at the same time and ways they might be able to intersect. Yes, the Spurs could trade for Simmons using cap space and sign Trent. They could also sign Trent and use up their cap space on something else and then trade for Simmons using over-the-cap rules. That's what I'm referring to when I say, "They'd have the cap space either way." I'm not talking about signing Collins and trading for Simmons and then signing Trent.


So Simmons has lower offence because his team is better but DJM does not have less ast because his team does not make as many baskets? ... Ben only takes close shots which will tend to help his fg%.

Simmons doesn't have lower offense than Murray. But his on-offs are slightly worse because Philly is way better. The drop off from Simmons to not Simmons is less, but either way, Philly's offense is way better with or without Murray. That makes it a wash. I honestly think on-offs are a wash either way and other impact stats show Simmons as a definite positive whereas Murray is basically neutral. But anyway, yeah, the the fact that Simmons boosts Philly's passing and scoring more than Murray boosts that of the Spurs is a sign that Murray isn't a notably better offensive player. I would say Simmons is the better offensive player, but it's a wash in enough stats and Simmons shooting refusal is so glaring that I'm okay with putting down to a wash.

Also, that Simmons has to drive into a defense and can't rely on making free throws yet still has the better TS% is actually a big deal. Simmons and Murray score at similar rates, so it's not like Ben is just opportunistic. Ben, despite handicapping himself so severely, is still a more efficient scorer and impactful play-maker than Murray. That's a big deal.


BTW DJM also was not the main player on his team that would belong to DDR. ... You talk about a cap being second rd PO but that is where Ben is getting on a solid team. Put Murray on that team I bet they get there. Ben would not help this team get further.

This is hypocritical. I never said Murray was the main player on his team, just like I never said Simmons was the main player on his. Embiid is a top 5-7 player in the league. He is why Philly is a contender. If they trade Ben and have just a decent guard in return, they'll be a contender again. If they're not, it'll be only because of Joel's health, which is what shot them this year (well, actually it was Green's injury that fully popped the balloon, but they were really weakened after Embiid was hobbled). Simmons and Murray weren't in different positions in terms of their responsibilities. People need to stop looking for excuses for why Murray never grades out to be a very good player. The disconnect between what fans (and Pop probably) think Murray is and what he actually is is the main reason why I think DJM needs to be moved no matter what scenario the team goes down. It's just not a healthy situation for anyone that DeJounte gets franchise-player clout despite being a role-player. It's not good for him. It's not good for the team. It's not good for the organization.

[poopbox]

Yeah, way to act like a baby...

Yes, the plan would be to build around a guy who even with those flaws would be the best player on the team. I'm not for trading like eight firsts for him. But if the cost is mainly those guy and present draft value, then you can build and still be flexible.

The Spurs' problem isn't shooting. The Murray, White, DeRozan, Johnson Poeltl lineup's problem shooting. The White, Vassell, Johnson, Simmons, Dieng lineup has good spacing. The problem is that their main perimeter players struggle with shooting, making it hard to put shooting around them. Shooting will only really be fixed by subtracting more poor shooters than you add, and this deal is a net-two shoooters upgraded.

Mills is actually a good player. His FIBA performance is showing he's still fine physically. Obviously, him being an icon of Simmons' home country helps. And as I said in the above post, I don't necessarily want him back, but he'll probably be back anyway. May as well figure that into off-season plans, since he'd end up blowing them up by randomly eating cap space otherwise.

Being the "best player on the team" doesn't have very much value when you are devoid of the number one talent that is needed in the nba today, which is shooting, and you especially need it from a player who has the ball in his hands a lot, like Simmons does.

Also, Simmons is on a max contract which further dilutes his "best player on the team" status as he should be, he is the guy you are paying the most money to that the nba will allow due to his service time.

Mills is NOT a good player. He is a bad defender. He never gets to the line. He is a below average passer. He is a streaky 3 point shooter and for the last 3 years he has fallen off a cliff at the end of the seasons. He isn't a 36% 3 point shooter because he consistently shoots 36%. He's a 36% 3 point shooter cause he goes through stretches where he shoots 42% from 3 and then stretches where he shoots 24% from 3. Consistency is good and Mills is about as inconsistent as they come. His FIBA performance proves that if you make him a number one scoring option he can score a lot of points. Are the Spurs going to force feed him like the Australian national team does? If not then how are the spurs going to get the same production out of him that they do? Also how man international games does he play in vs a full nba season? Lots of players can play well for 8, 10, 12 game spurts. That doesn't at all mean it will translate to regular season and playoff nba basketball.

The spurs problem isn't shooting but the problem is "their man perimeter players struggle with shooting". Sounds like the problem is indeed shooting.

Getting Ben Simmons would make your team the opposite of flexible, because you would then have to build the team around his inefficiencies, and thus you will be in pursuit of nothing but shooting all the time, since Ben can't and won't shoot anything from the point guard position except a dunk, and with the way the 76ers season ended their is no guarantee that Simmons will even dunk a basketball.

I am also not blown away by his defense. His defense is great but when he has to go up against elite offense talent consistently, that offensive talent usually wins out over him. He was what, second in DPOY voting, but as the hawks series went on Trae found it easier and easier to get open looks against Ben and the 76ers defense. I believed he averaged close to 30 for that series if not over 30. So yeah if you get Ben and surround him with shooting, which is in effect changing your whole damn team, you can probably be the 7th or 8th seed. But the second you got to play steph or dame or morant in a 7 game series you are going to be toast, cause Ben is going to slowly wilt over time defensively against those guards AND he is going to compound that with not shooting the basketball which will put absolutely no pressure on those guards having to defend him.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I wouldn't trade Murry for Simmons straight up. Philly needs to add two 1st rounders for that to happen. In today's NBA, a point guard without 3 point shooting cannot take a team far enough. Murray at least already has 3 pt shot and is rapidly improving. Simmons? We're just hoping. Likely he will never have it. Just look at Demar.

Plus, Murray has killer instinct and those type of guys tend to rise at the most important moment of the game. Simmons is proven timid and passive. He will likely fail again and again...

[R. DeMurre]

It's interesting that there have already been numerous mentions of players that couldn't be paired with Simmons, and that's before Simmons is even on the team! That's my #1 issue with him-- he's another guy whose glaring shortcomings have to be taken so dramatically into account when considering team building... We just went through two full seasons of that with DeRozan where Forbes played too many minutes (we need his shooting to compensate for DDR) or White was wasted standing around watching DDR iso against opponents. I just want the highest paid guy on the team to be our most fearsome and difficult match up... not the major flaw other teams key on. To me, Simmons is at a best short term gain & a long term loss. If Simmons wasn't enough with Joel Embiid, Jimmy Butler, and Tobias Harris as teammates, I just don't see how you build around him. That's two MVP/DPOY candidates and a guy with better raw stats than any current Spur, plus a bunch of legit shooters... what more could Philly have possibly given him?

[Teamduncan21]

So you want get someoene slightly better for double the cost? How does this make any sense? I really dont think Ben is better then DJM. he is different and better at something but DJ has things he is better at as well. Just because Ben is getting to the 2nd round of the PLayoffs out there does not mean he will in the west. Most people would agree that Philly has a better bench and a better Center. You take those out and do the even make the PO? 1 player does not make a team. There is also a reason they are trying to trade him. Right now they are trying to get max value but I believe if no one will give that then they will take less.


That's why I said I'm not a big fan. While I find him better than DJM same reason as mentioned below. I don't find him that far from djm.

I get the view why is this a move to consider. As he can be someone to build on since he does have some strengths.

His unwillingness to sh will be obvious in playoffs. But no so much in season. It became apparent for 6ers because it's very hard to win a series with that. But we are not playoff anyway. So the idea is to build an at least competitive team. And Ben seems an easier build than djm (unless DJM improves. Which he does every year)

[The Truth #6]

Simmons does have major drawbacks: he can’t shoot and he dates a Kardashian. Not sure which is worse as for team success/sanity.

BUT I think the main debate that has been going on over the years is that Philly needs to built around either Embiid or Simmons, but they don’t work well together, which I sort of agree with. They both play inside.

Simmons is a great penetrator, passer, and defender. For comparison, Giddey is 1/3 of those, Scottie Barnes is 2/3 potentially. Simmons does need to be built around, but so do many star players, especially ones we might be able to get.

Simmons becomes the head of the snake. Vassel and Dieng would pair well with him. Lonnie and Mills would also. Keldon is always helpful and never a negative in my book, and he would fit also, even if his shooting stays the same, though I predict it improves. Luka would do well with Simmons. I don’t really see a huge problem. We already have role players that need to feed off someone.

DJM and DDR and maybe Yak would have to go, but DDR is gone anyway. DJM is a solid player but projects more as a solid second banana, not the main guy. Yak can’t shoot but I’d rather build around Simmons than Yak, no offense to Yak.

So I see a path. Not saying I necessarily think we have to go this way, but I don’t think it’s far fetched. To me the deal breaker is actually our #12 pick. I wouldn’t want to lose that, but a trade for Simmons has to happen after the draft anyway, right?

[JeffDuncan]

... Yak can’t shoot but I’d rather build around Simmons than Yak, no offense to Yak.
...


Poeltl shoots better than Simmons. Both take 90%+ of their shots within 10 ft, and Poeltl has the higher percentages. (The number of shots taken by both is high enough to be statistically significant. The superiority of Poeltl is real.)

If the idea is to be certain that the Spurs remain dead last in the NBA in 3pt shot attempts, Simmons would go a long way toward guaranteeing that. But is a lack of 3pt shooting supposed to be a recipe for success in the future NBA? Call me doubtful.

Simmons has become a star - sort of - while teamed with Embiid. The Spurs do not have an Embiid, nor even a Tobias Harris. Where is anybody planning to get such players to team with Simmons?

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




Denver Nuggets guard Will Barton will decline his $14.7 million player option for the 2021-22 season, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). Both sides are hopeful to find a deal in free agency.
4:52pm · 17 Jul 2021 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1416516250490920960) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[TD 21]

Not only is it not nearly enough asset wise, but fit wise Murray, Poeltl and "incentive" does nothing for the 76ers, who have a ticking time bomb of a superstar (health and contentment wise) and a gaping hole for a go-to perimeter scorer/creator.

The only way I can see to make theoretical sense of this, is if DeRozan and White go to the 76ers and Murray to a third team.

[The Truth #6]

Poeltl shoots better than Simmons. Both take 90%+ of their shots within 10 ft, and Poeltl has the higher percentages. (The number of shots taken by both is high enough to be statistically significant. The superiority of Poeltl is real.)

If the idea is to be certain that the Spurs remain dead last in the NBA in 3pt shot attempts, Simmons would go a long way toward guaranteeing that. But is a lack of 3pt shooting supposed to be a recipe for success in the future NBA? Call me doubtful.

Simmons has become a star - sort of - while teamed with Embiid. The Spurs do not have an Embiid, nor even a Tobias Harris. Where is anybody planning to get such players to team with Simmons?

I think this misses the point. Yak scores well inside and defends well, but is much less versatile than Simmons. So you want Yak playing point guard? Of course not.

Simmons didn’t do well because he played next to Embiid. They get in each other’s way. That’s what basketball writers have been complaining about for 4 years—they need to be split up. One could argue that Simmons on his own team will be better.

Now, by acknowledging this doesn’t mean I say we have to do it. But I think it’s fair to also acknowledge that the Simmons-Embiid tandem has been debated for years.

I’m happy not take on Simmons if his personality is toxic. To me that’s the bigger issue.

[scott]

Simmons sucks and it would be awesome if everyone just forgot about him.

[Dennis the Menace]

Simmons sucks and it would be awesome if everyone just forgot about him.

This. Having Pop run the team already sucks enough as it is. Why do y’all want to suck even more?

[RC_Drunkford]

He hasn't fixed DeRozan's shot.

there was nothing to fix. DeRozan can shoot. He just didn't want to shoot 3s. Simmons literally doesn't have a jumper at all. The guy can't even shoot free throws

[Dex]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




Denver Nuggets guard Will Barton will decline his $14.7 million player option for the 2021-22 season, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). Both sides are hopeful to find a deal in free agency.
4:52pm · 17 Jul 2021 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1416516250490920960) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

I could totally see the Spurs spending some money on Will Barton.

I don't like it, but I could see it happening.

[tbdog]

I am just so confused why people think Simmons is a broken player. He is probably the best defensive player in the game. Will comfortable defend the best 1 through to 4 in the game.

When comparing to Murray, I am even more confused. I'll easily give Murray the better shooter title. Murray is more confident in finding his midrange shot and also has a steady 3 point shot. Also Murray is a decent FT shooter.
Simmons most glaring weakness is he has no shot, at all. But he is a much better finisher and dominate in the open break. He is a much better passer, both in finding angles and strength of his pass. He is also much taller making his passing better. They probably equal in rebounding but Simmons is just much taller and automatically gets more boards.

If Murray had Simmons skills, Murray would be a superstud.

[Teamduncan21]

I am just so confused why people think Simmons is a broken player. He is probably the best defensive player in the game. Will comfortable defend the best 1 through to 4 in the game.

When comparing to Murray, I am even more confused. I'll easily give Murray the better shooter title. Murray is more confident in finding his midrange shot and also has a steady 3 point shot. Also Murray is a decent FT shooter.
Simmons most glaring weakness is he has no shot, at all. But he is a much better finisher and dominate in the open break. He is a much better passer, both in finding angles and strength of his pass. He is also much taller making his passing better. They probably equal in rebounding but Simmons is just much taller and automatically gets more boards.

If Murray had Simmons skills, Murray would be a superstud.


His refusal to shoot in playoff stuck to people. That's why.

He is better than Murray. But also double the cost. With glaring weakness. So it becomes the question whether it is worth it. As Murray is getting better almost every year anyway.

But also spurs will not get a star. The only way we can get a star is someone who is kinda broken. We are not getting a Booker or a jokic. So that's really one way we can get a star to build on. That's kinda how I look at it.

The non shooting is an issue. But I feel it won't be too apparent until playoff. When teams scout you. As of now we just wanna build a competent team that can make the playoff. Then worry about that after 3 years

[ace3g]

I could totally see the Spurs spending some money on Will Barton.

I don't like it, but I could see it happening.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6C_npLUcAM7xT6.jpg

[JeffDuncan]

I am just so confused why people think Simmons is a broken player. ...


It might have something to do with what they see when they watch him.

You mention Simmons vs Murray and rebounding. You imagine that the taller Simmons will automatically get more boards. Let’s look.

Per game, rebounds, 2020-21 season.

Murray, 7.1
Simmons, 7.2

Simmons is about 7 inches taller, and is paid about twice as much as Murray, and he gets 0.1 more rebounds per game.

You want to pay $15 million more to get 0.1 more rebounds?

Further, Simmons has never had a season where he averaged less than 3 turnovers per game. Murray has never averaged more than 2.

Beyond his poor shooting, it’s things like that which make people skeptical of Simmons.



...
If Murray had Simmons skills, Murray would be a superstud.

If Murray had Simmons’ skills, Murray would be a bust and be out of the league.

[tbdog]

It might have something to do with what they see when they watch him.

You mention Simmons vs Murray and rebounding. You imagine that the taller Simmons will automatically get more boards. Let’s look.

Per game, rebounds, 2020-21 season.

Murray, 7.1
Simmons, 7.2

Simmons is about 7 inches taller, and is paid about twice as much as Murray, and he gets 0.1 more rebounds per game.

You want to pay $15 million more to get 0.1 more rebounds?

Further, Simmons has never had a season where he averaged less than 3 turnovers per game. Murray has never averaged more than 2.

Beyond his poor shooting, it’s things like that which make people skeptical of Simmons.



If Murray had Simmons’ skills, Murray would be a bust and be out of the league.

If Murray had Simmons skills, ie Simmons in Murray's body. He would be Rondo 10 years ago.

[tbdog]

BTW, I still want to go after Sabonis.

[KobesAchilles]

BTW, I still want to go after Sabonis.
Is he available?

[CGD]

Is he available?

Lol, no way. But Turner is.

[talkspurs]

If Murray had Simmons skills, ie Simmons in Murray's body. He would be Rondo 10 years ago.

Rondo ended up coming up of the bench. and this is before everyone shot 3s. He also got better at shooting 3s. but you forgot to mention that Ben is not a good re-bounder for his size. Also he has more TO and cannot shoot the 3. His shots are probably easier because he is taller as he can shoot over more people. So yes if you put Ben skills into Murray he would be out of the league.

You also talk about simmons defense. I dont think it is as good as people like to make it out to be. Murray also is a good player defense player and is getting better at it as well.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

if you put Ben skills into Murray he would be out of the league? Maybe a 3rd string point guard. Not necessary our of league. He would still be a good passer. and adequate defender.

[cjw]

It might have something to do with what they see when they watch him.

You mention Simmons vs Murray and rebounding. You imagine that the taller Simmons will automatically get more boards. Let’s look.

Per game, rebounds, 2020-21 season.

Murray, 7.1
Simmons, 7.2

Simmons is about 7 inches taller, and is paid about twice as much as Murray, and he gets 0.1 more rebounds per game.

You want to pay $15 million more to get 0.1 more rebounds?

Further, Simmons has never had a season where he averaged less than 3 turnovers per game. Murray has never averaged more than 2.

Beyond his poor shooting, it’s things like that which make people skeptical of Simmons.



If Murray had Simmons’ skills, Murray would be a bust and be out of the league.

One of rare instances per game averages hold up as the two play roughly the same amount of minutes. Simmons has a higher FG% but he’s also shooting from an area where he should be hitting that type of percentage - clogging up floor for others. Murray at least offers some floor spacing.

Simmons is a better distributor - with that comes more turnovers. I wonder how much of each’s scoring comes in half court vs. transition too.

Murray’s rebounding is on par despite being shorter.

Simmons’ defense is stellar. But Murray’s is very good too.

Murray is way cheaper and it would cost a lot more than just Murray to go acquire Simmons. If I were trading Murray plus a bunch more, I’d want a pretty damn sure thing.

[CGD]

One of rare instances per game averages hold up as the two play roughly the same amount of minutes. Simmons has a higher FG% but he’s also shooting from an area where he should be hitting that type of percentage - clogging up floor for others. Murray at least offers some floor spacing.

Simmons is a better distributor - with that comes more turnovers. I wonder how much of each’s scoring comes in half court vs. transition too.

Murray’s rebounding is on par despite being shorter.

Simmons’ defense is stellar. But Murray’s is very good too.

Murray is way cheaper and it would cost a lot more than just Murray to go acquire Simmons. If I were trading Murray plus a bunch more, I’d want a pretty damn sure thing.

This is good. I do think ultimately what takes us out of it will be Philly’s reasonably high demands. Better bet probably is maxing Collins and trying to sign some shooters like Duncan Robinson with remaining capspace.

[exstatic]

This is good. I do think ultimately what takes us out of it will be Philly’s reasonably high demands. Better bet probably is maxing Collins and trying to sign some shooters like Duncan Robinson with remaining capspace.

While I agree on Collins, I violently disagree with paying DR. You can get a guy who does nothing but run around and shoot 3 pointers…IN THE SECOND ROUND. No need to pay that player type 8 figures per year when you can pay less than a million/yr for probably 3 years.

[Uriel]

BTW, I still want to go after Sabonis.
There’s a Sabonis-like player in the draft. His name is Alperen Sengun.

[tbdog]

There’s a Sabonis-like player in the draft. His name is Alperen Sengun.

I want Sabonis now. He is perfect type of center for this team.

[tbdog]

Is there anyone here that is a little bit bubbly in their tummies over this offseason. Spurs have insane flexibility in terms of cap space and youth. But there appears to be some decent names available via trade.

Simmons
Kuzma
Duncan Robinson
Herro
Ingram
Ball
McCollum
Beal
Sabonis
Turner
Sexton
Will Barton
Siakam
Collins
Rozier
Grant
Trent Jr

[mo7888]

Is there anyone here that is a little bit bubbly in their tummies over this offseason. Spurs have insane flexibility in terms of cap space and youth. But there appears to be some decent names available via trade.

Simmons
Kuzma
Duncan Robinson
Herro
Ingram
Ball
McCollum
Beal
Sabonis
Turner
Sexton
Will Barton
Siakam
Collins
Rozier
Grant
Trent Jr

I hadn't seen where Ingram was available..interesting... I'm not feeling bubbly but, it is really interesting to have so many options and/or directions this team can choose to go right now. I'm not used to all these options... it should be exciting..

[tbdog]

Everyone except for you know who is available for the Pelicans.

[Degoat]

I’m super excited too! I really hope the spurs get creative with what they do with their flexibility

[mo7888]

Everyone except for you know who is available for the Pelicans.

They should move him then because, even though I like Ingram, he doesn't fit next to Zion. They should be able to turn him into players who fit better pretty easily.

[Trueblood]

They should move him then because, even though I like Ingram, he doesn't fit next to Zion. They should be able to turn him into players who fit better pretty easily.

IIRC Zion has already made it clear that he wants them to keep Ingram and Ball. Apparently they're pretty close.

[Mr. Body]

Is there anyone here that is a little bit bubbly in their tummies over this offseason. Spurs have insane flexibility in terms of cap space and youth. But there appears to be some decent names available via trade.

Simmons
Kuzma
Duncan Robinson
Herro
Ingram
Ball
McCollum
Beal
Sabonis
Turner
Sexton
Will Barton
Siakam
Collins
Rozier
Grant
Trent Jr

I'm not terribly excited because I don't think anything's really going to happen, least anything big. I see playing as a third party of bigger deals.

[R. DeMurre]

Is there anyone here that is a little bit bubbly in their tummies over this offseason. Spurs have insane flexibility in terms of cap space and youth. But there appears to be some decent names available via trade.

Simmons
Kuzma
Duncan Robinson
Herro
Ingram
Ball
McCollum
Beal
Sabonis
Turner
Sexton
Will Barton
Siakam
Collins
Rozier
Grant
Trent Jr

I'd add Thaddeus Young & Satoransky, who might be gettable from the Bulls if they want to have more cap flexibility & go w/ younger players. Both are on reasonable & short and would be nice vets to replace DeRozan and/or Gay... Maybe Boucher if Toronto drafts a big.

[mo7888]

A few tidbits I'm seeing in the Twitter verse today I thought were interesting..
Pelicans are unlikely to match a significant Lonzo Ball offer
Clippers, Lakers, and Bulls all interested in Lonzo
Pelicans are open to attaching a pick to unload Eric Bledsoe
Pelicans are interested in signing Kyle Lowry

A few thoughts- Lakers or Clippers would need a 3rd team in any Lonzo trade unless the Pelicans like their assets more than cap space and if they are after Lowry then maximizing cap space is probably their target.

If we move DJ or White getting a pick for taking Bledsoe wouldn't be a bad outcome.

If the Pelicans want Lowry I wonder if they'd want DDR as well. I don't like a DDR, Lowry, Zion big 3 but they may not have a better path forward.

[R. DeMurre]

I like Lowery and think he's had a very underrated career, but why would New Orleans want him now, at age 35? Odd.

[CGD]

Hmm, I might take Bledsoe for the right pick. Looks like the last of the two years is partially guaranteed at 3.9M

[R. DeMurre]

Hmm, I might take Bledsoe for the right pick. Looks like the last of the two years is partially guaranteed at 3.9M

Interesting one to roll the dice on... if it's an unprotected pick a few years down the line and Zion leaves, it could potentially be gold.

[exstatic]

Interesting one to roll the dice on... if it's an unprotected pick a few years down the line and Zion leaves, it could potentially be gold.

I doubt they’d offer an unprotected first to eat a contract. Maybe something like top 10 protected, at best.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If we move DJ or White getting a pick for taking Bledsoe wouldn't be a bad outcome.


It'd be terrible, tbh.

If it's Bledsoe into cap space for a lottery protected pick after the Spurs strike out on their FA targets, then it might be alright.

[Leetonidas]

I like Lowery and think he's had a very underrated career, but why would New Orleans want him now, at age 35? Odd.

Definitely seems like the timeline doesn't fit. But i'm guessing they want a steady veteran leader for their group of young guys. Hard for it to be Adams and Bledsoe when they're useless albatross contracts. But i would expect Lowry to try and go somewhere to compete for a ring versus playing veteran babysitter in NOLA

[mo7888]

It'd be terrible, tbh.

If it's Bledsoe into cap space for a lottery protected pick after the Spurs strike out on their FA targets, then it might be alright.

If we get a 1st to take on a year of his contract to serve as a backup point guard, that's not a bad outcome. Nobody is saying that's a top priority ot preferred target but it's not bad in certain scenarios.

[baseline bum]

If we get a 1st to take on a year of his contract to serve as a backup point guard, that's not a bad outcome. Nobody is saying that's a top priority ot preferred target but it's not bad in certain scenarios.

I'd take him for a first with light protection since the Spurs aren't getting anybody with their capspace and have to meet a salary floor, but I'd bury him deep bench or buy him out.

[Ignazzz]

I'd take him for a first with light protection since the Spurs aren't getting anybody with their capspace and have to meet a salary floor, but I'd bury him deep bench or buy him out.
OKC will do different way. Give him minutes. Promo him. Sell high.

[TD 21]

If the Pelicans want Lowry I wonder if they'd want DDR as well. I don't like a DDR, Lowry, Zion big 3 but they may not have a better path forward.

They don't have the cap space and even if they did, multiple significant sign and trades in one off season would be unheard of. DeRozan would be a terrible fit with Williamson and you seemingly forgot Ingram.


If we get a 1st to take on a year of his contract to serve as a backup point guard, that's not a bad outcome. Nobody is saying that's a top priority ot preferred target but it's not bad in certain scenarios.

So many don't understand nuance and instead base everything on a combination of executing their preferred scenario and whether they like the player(s) in question.


Definitely seems like the timeline doesn't fit. But i'm guessing they want a steady veteran leader for their group of young guys. Hard for it to be Adams and Bledsoe when they're useless albatross contracts. But i would expect Lowry to try and go somewhere to compete for a ring versus playing veteran babysitter in NOLA

Yeah, I doubt Lowry will have interest, but he'd be a good fit for them, as would Adams for the Raptors.

[exstatic]

OKC will do different way. Give him minutes. Promo him. Sell high.

The problem with that is that even peak Bledsoe, which he isn’t anymore, isn’t that valuable in today’s game. He’s sort of a pint sized DeRozan. It’s not a coincidence that Milwaukee got better by jettisoning his ass last offseason.

Every player that OKC has flipped, PG, RW, CP3, Horford, all have value in today’s game.

[mo7888]

They don't have the cap space and even if they did, multiple significant sign and trades in one off season would be unheard of. DeRozan would be a terrible fit with Williamson and you seemingly forgot Ingram.



So many don't understand nuance and instead base everything on a combination of executing their preferred scenario and whether they like the player(s) in question.



Yeah, I doubt Lowry will have interest, but he'd be a good fit for them, as would Adams for the Raptors.

In regard to Ingram I was working off the suggestion by another poster that they were looking to or open to trading him....I should have made that clear...

[Teamduncan21]

I like Lowery and think he's had a very underrated career, but why would New Orleans want him now, at age 35? Odd.

I think the perspective is like suns adding Chris Paul and suddenly they are in finals.

Not saying it will work. But the logic seems to be derived from there

[tbdog]

In regard to Ingram I was working off the suggestion by another poster that they were looking to or open to trading him....I should have made that clear...

I am reading reports of Ingram being linked to Paul George and Lillard. Ingram however was spotted with the Pelicans GM, attending a playoff game. So these leaks or rumours are maybe nothing. But something we can all agree on, that the Pelicans are open to trading anyone and everyone except for Zion. They are under pressure to build a playoff team around Zion right now before his max extension kicks in. They could very well lose Hart and Ball. Their young pieces are pretty much fading. The issue with Ingram and Zion pairing is their below average defense. Yet they are their two best players. Pelicans have 10th pick. Dangle that with Ingram and you can go after Paul George, especially if Leonard burns them.

[exstatic]

I am reading reports of Ingram being linked to Paul George and Lillard. Ingram however was spotted with the Pelicans GM, attending a playoff game. So these leaks or rumours are maybe nothing. But something we can all agree on, that the Pelicans are open to trading anyone and everyone except for Zion. They are under pressure to build a playoff team around Zion right now before his max extension kicks in. They could very well lose Hart and Ball. Their young pieces are pretty much fading. The issue with Ingram and Zion pairing is their below average defense. Yet they are their two best players. Pelicans have 10th pick. Dangle that with Ingram and you can go after Paul George, especially if Leonard burns them.

Unfortunately for the Clippers, the draft comes first, so they won’t know if they’re going to be snaked by The Group until August.

[Dejounte]

Rudy spotted in an IG video by Vassell. I presume it’s after a workout. I’m expecting Gay and Dieng back out of all the vets.

[Seventyniner]

Rudy spotted in an IG video by Vassell. I presume it’s after a workout. I’m expecting Gay and Dieng back out of all the vets.

I can see Rudy taking the same path Vince Carter did at the end of his career. He also seems to genuinely like the young Spurs.

I'd be thrilled to have Dieng back. I would also be surprised if he signs with the Spurs, though, unless the Spurs offer him a lot of money. Then again, I was surprised he signed with the Spurs in the first place so it was likely due to his relationships with some of the Spurs' players and staff rather than money or a playoff run.

[exstatic]

I can see Rudy taking the same path Vince Carter did at the end of his career. He also seems to genuinely like the young Spurs.

I'd be thrilled to have Dieng back. I would also be surprised if he signs with the Spurs, though, unless the Spurs offer him a lot of money. Then again, I was surprised he signed with the Spurs in the first place so it was likely due to his relationships with some of the Spurs' players and staff rather than money or a playoff run.

Gorgui was at one of the first Basketball Without Borders camps in Africa, put on by RC Buford. When he signed, he said that he’s known RC longer than he’s spoken English.

[tbdog]

Gay would solve our backup 4 problem if we go after Collins. It kinda make sense if you max out Collins that you also have a decent backup. Because frankly, I can't see Luka being ready next season.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Gay would solve our backup 4 problem if we go after Collins. It kinda make sense if you max out Collins that you also have a decent backup. Because frankly, I can't see Luka being ready next season.

Luka will be a big contributor next year. He is already the best defensive 4 we have. His lateral movement is incredible.

[Proxy]

Luka will be a big contributor next year. He is already the best defensive 4 we have. His lateral movement is incredible.

don't see it, hope you're right. The talent is there, but Murray and Luka's inconsistencies frustrate me more than anyone else on the team. And I like them both as people, just don't think we'll ever be elite with Murray running point. And Luka has to have a fire lit under his ass to give more than 50 percent effort, and even then, seems like he still doesn't understand how to play basketball at times

[buttsR4rebounding]

don't see it, hope you're right. The talent is there, but Murray and Luka's inconsistencies frustrate me more than anyone else on the team. And I like them both as people, just don't think we'll ever be elite with Murray running point. And Luka has to have a fire lit under his ass to give more than 50 percent effort, and even then, seems like he still doesn't understand how to play basketball at times

The biggest problem was Pop’s head up his ass. When given minutes Luka performed well. Unexplainably on a team lacking at the 4 position Pop’s wine-soaked brain couldn’t figure it out. I really believe he prioritized Rudy’s last contract over team development. In the 5 game stretch that Luka played he had the best +/- in 4 of the 5 games and had the lowest FG% against in the NBA over that stretch at 38%. Then basically forgotten the rest of the season. How does that performance not EARN him minutes? That’s why Pop needs to go. I believe he is incapable of playing a younger player over a veteran.

[tbdog]

Luka will be a big contributor next year. He is already the best defensive 4 we have. His lateral movement is incredible.

He will get plenty of minutes still on average. He still needs to earn that rotation, though. Spurs always have you earn it.

[rankingtear]

The biggest problem was Pop’s head up his ass. When given minutes Luka performed well. Unexplainably on a team lacking at the 4 position Pop’s wine-soaked brain couldn’t figure it out. I really believe he prioritized Rudy’s last contract over team development. In the 5 game stretch that Luka played he had the best +/- in 4 of the 5 games and had the lowest FG% against in the NBA over that stretch at 38%. Then basically forgotten the rest of the season. How does that performance not EARN him minutes? That’s why Pop needs to go. I believe he is incapable of playing a younger player over a veteran.

Except when he does.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Except when he does.

Such insight. Have another glass of wine. Morning drinker, eh?

[buttsR4rebounding]

He will get plenty of minutes still on average. He still needs to earn that rotation, though. Spurs always have you earn it.

Used to be you earned your minutes playing good D. How does literally playing some of the best defense in the league when given an opportunity not EARN more playing time?

[tbdog]

Used to be you earned your minutes playing good D. How does literally playing some of the best defense in the league when given an opportunity not EARN more playing time?

Oh come on. He had some moments, but he is lost out there sometimes, more so on offense which in this era is actually pretty damn important.

[dbestpro]

If Rudy Gay is signed he will become the most hated Spur over the course of the season with his slow defense and world b free shooting off the rim.

[poopbox]

No more Rudy Gay. Slow, immobile, streaky, falls off a cliff toward the end of the season. Seen enough of him

[SpursDynasty85]

Gay would solve our backup 4 problem if we go after Collins. It kinda make sense if you max out Collins that you also have a decent backup. Because frankly, I can't see Luka being ready next season.


Even if we get Collins we are not going to contend for a ship just yet. A guy like Gay taking Luka’s back up minutes could be detrimental to Luka’s development. Luka needs minutes on the bench at the very least. Or we trade him.

[PrimeMinister]

Rudy Gay has been a mentor to Devin and taken him under his wing.

They are friends and will continue to be friends even if/when Rudy leaves. They may even work out together still like many players from different teams do.

Doesn’t mean much of anything. Rudy could stay or Rudy could go. But that doesn’t indicate anything.

[SpursDynasty85]

Rudy spotted in an IG video by Vassell. I presume it’s after a workout. I’m expecting Gay and Dieng back out of all the vets.

If he is back, Luka better be starting and Gay and Pop better tone-down that chucking.

[Mr. Body]

The impact of mentorship is tremendous on young players. I'd be happy/expect Gay to stick around as well as Patty.

[Mugen]

Ideally Rudy, Patty, Derozan, and of course the old man should be nowhere near the team next year tbh :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs biggest offseason signing will be getting Paul Millsap or somebody else over 35

[hombre]

Spurs biggest offseason signing will be getting Paul Millsap or somebody else over 35

There should be one consistent jersey number they give these guys they bring in.

[SpursDynasty85]

The impact of mentorship is tremendous on young players. I'd be happy/expect Gay to stick around as well as Patty.

Gay maybe since his career is closer to retirement. Patty has like 4 years left so he will be looking for playing time. Both will see if contenders are willing to pay for them though.

[John B]

The biggest problem was Pop’s head up his ass. When given minutes Luka performed well. Unexplainably on a team lacking at the 4 position Pop’s wine-soaked brain couldn’t figure it out. I really believe he prioritized Rudy’s last contract over team development. In the 5 game stretch that Luka played he had the best +/- in 4 of the 5 games and had the lowest FG% against in the NBA over that stretch at 38%. Then basically forgotten the rest of the season. How does that performance not EARN him minutes? That’s why Pop needs to go. I believe he is incapable of playing a younger player over a veteran.

Imo Pop is “managing” than “coaching” the team the last few seasons, after Nephew’s mutiny, trying to recourse. It’s frustrating to us fans, sometimes it’s too obvious. But he has the “bigger picture,” managing contracts, positioning for the draft, but remaining “exciting enough” to keep the fans watching. Pop is not just “a coach,” he has tons of other things to look up for. But at the end of the day, I still trust Pop making the correct call, as frustrating it is at the moment sometimes.

[CGD]

Read Memphis May decline Winslow team option. Maybe a good pick up at right price

[4lifecowboy]

Keeping an eye on the Garret Allen Cleveland situation, if Mobley falls and they take him, Allen may be gettable as a RFA. Hate me for saying it but I would pursue him over Collins, he is an elite defender, Collins isn't elite at anything.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Read Memphis May decline Winslow team option. Maybe a good pick up at right price

Dude can't shoot into the ocean let alone into the basket.

[szkorhetz]

Keeping an eye on the Garret Allen Cleveland situation, if Mobley falls and they take him, Allen may be gettable as a RFA. Hate me for saying it but I would pursue him over Collins, he is an elite defender, Collins isn't elite at anything.
Yet Collins is a positional need why Allen isn't.
Collins is also a better player IMHO.

[Mr. Body]

Washington may be big players in the offseason, with GSW apparently going hard for Beal and some interest in Westbrook elsewhere. (For example, Lakers, which would be great for everyone else.) If I'm the Wizards, I definitely get rid of them, do a semi-blowup and move forward. I think little of Beal and even less of Westbrook.

Point is, a team like SAS can again be the buffer to grease these moves and pull off some assets here or there.

[mo7888]

So apparently the Blazers won't trade CJ for picks, they want vets.... S&T DeMar (and one of DJ or White if necessary) for CJ? I know, I know...DeMar isn't blah blah.... it only matters if lillard thinks he is..

[Mr. Body]

So apparently the Blazers won't trade CJ for picks, they want vets.... S&T DeMar (and one of DJ or White if necessary) for CJ? I know, I know...DeMar isn't blah blah.... it only matters if lillard thinks he is..

McCollum is worth more than anybody in the lottery except maybe Mobley. They're right to go for vets. Just, flatly, DeRozan is better than CJ, just straight up. It's about fit, of course, but ESPN and their animus against the Spurs has lead everyone around by the nose like a bunch of shit-smeared dopes.

[Dex]

Looks like DeMar may have his eyes set on LA: https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-07-23/nba-free-agency-2021-kawhi-leonard-chris-paul-key


DeRozan, who starred at Compton High and USC, has interest in returning home to play for the Lakers, even if it is for less than the $27.7 million he earned last season in San Antonio, according to people not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

[Dejounte]

Looks like DeMar may have his eyes set on LA: https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-07-23/nba-free-agency-2021-kawhi-leonard-chris-paul-key

so either a s&t or walk. Either way, addition by subtraction. Hopefully the DeMar era is indeed over.

[SAGirl]

Read Memphis May decline Winslow team option. Maybe a good pick up at right price
Good decision by them. I saw their fans on Twitter making cases for how it should be obvious the team would pick it up (to use as ballast in a trade) but that doesn’t make sense unless Winslow had at least some value and he was horrible last season, just ghastly.

As a flyer to let him rehab his stock and revive his career that’s a different kind of scenario. I don’t like him for the Spurs maybe I am biased by how bad he played last season but he’d just be another guy for them with a bad jumper. He can still defend, but I don’t think he helps them much because they need shooting and scoring from their veterans. Just my 2 cents. Pop would play him some to see if he still has game maybe even like his hustle too much and play him over youngins too like Samanic (bc Winslow, like Keldon, has also been effective as a small ball 4). Overall bad fit.

[SAGirl]

Dude can't shoot into the ocean let alone into the basket.
:rollinGood one. Said it better than I did.

[4lifecowboy]

Yet Collins is a positional need why Allen isn't.
Collins is also a better player IMHO.
Position is not as important as contribution IMO, we need an impactful big man period. Allen will contributions would be more impactful to overall good of team than Collins.
Collins is a capable scorer, but isn't a consistent scorer nor defender. It will be like adding DeRozan at a different position IMO. Allen on the other hand is a consistent defender, an elite rim protector, athletic enough to switch to perimeter players, capable of guarding the likes of Joker, Davis, and Giannis head up.

[Mr. Body]

Position is not as important as contribution IMO, we need an impactful big man period. Allen will contributions would be more impactful to overall good of team than Collins.
Collins is a capable scorer, but isn't a consistent scorer nor defender. It will be like adding DeRozan at a different position IMO. Allen on the other hand is a consistent defender, an elite rim protector, athletic enough to switch to perimeter players, capable of guarding the likes of Joker, Davis, and Giannis head up.

Positional need is extremely important. Jarrett Allen duplicates what you already get from Poeltl. I'd rather have Allen, but not at his price point, and getting Allen means you have to deal Poeltl. It doesn't make sense.

[exstatic]

Position is not as important as contribution IMO, we need an impactful big man period. Allen will contributions would be more impactful to overall good of team than Collins.
Collins is a capable scorer, but isn't a consistent scorer nor defender. It will be like adding DeRozan at a different position IMO. Allen on the other hand is a consistent defender, an elite rim protector, athletic enough to switch to perimeter players, capable of guarding the likes of Joker, Davis, and Giannis head up.

Collins isn’t remotely like DeRozan. He’s a true stretch 4, shooting the 3 ball at a 38% clip.

You really need to understand the extent to which the NBA has changed over the last 5-6 years. Big rangy athletic players have very little value. They get played off the floor in crunch time, and in the playoffs because they can’t contribute in a meaningful way to the offense. This isn’t 2012, and Allen has no place on this team.

[Mr. Body]

Collins isn’t remotely like DeRozan. He’s a true stretch 4, shooting the 3 ball at a 38% clip.

You really need to understand the extent to which the NBA has changed over the last 5-6 years. Big rangy athletic players have very little value. They get played off the floor in crunch time, and in the playoffs because they can’t contribute in a meaningful way to the offense. This isn’t 2012, and Allen has no place on this team.

Allen has a good amount of value in the league as a defensive five. We just already have one.

[MoSpur02]

I figured DeRozan would want to head to Cali to finish off his career. I don’t mind Kuzma and THT.

[exstatic]

I figured DeRozan would want to head to Cali to finish off his career. I don’t mind Kuzma and THT.

He apparently does, but that won’t be enough salary offset to pay him what he probably wants, and I’m not interested in taking out the Lakers trash. Kuzmas bad enough.

[Degoat]

In that same article about Demar wanting to go to LA it says they want Kyle Lowry too, idk if I’d hold out much hope for many assets from the Lakers

[rjv]

unless a 3rd team is involved (one that could then take whatever the lakers were to offer-especially if one of the players is Kuzma), i would not want an S&T with the lakers.

[pad300]

I don't particularly like CJ as a player; thus, I wouldn't do a DDR S&T for CJ unless other assets were coming along. Further, if I did such a trade, I would look to further move CJ for assets...

WRT to a DDR S&T to the Lakers, I don't mind it, but I want assets back not just :

... the Lakers trash. Kuzmas bad enough...

That would mean Kuzma and an actual asset (as well as any other salary ballast): THT on a good contract, or whomever they draft this year (assuming I like the kid).

[Leetonidas]

:lol fans on this board thinking we have the luxury of being picky when demar could just leave for nothing

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Derozan to the lakers is 2 wins for the spurs. The spurs get better and the lakers get worse

[Teamduncan21]

:lol fans on this board thinking we have the luxury of being picky when demar could just leave for nothing

Spurs would prefer nothing than other liabilities. Cap space can be used to facilitate trades and get a pick or two out of it considering most teams has no space

[Degoat]

I must be in the minority here but I’d be really happy with Kuzma lol Lakers put there young players in bad positions

[CGD]

:lol fans on this board thinking we have the luxury of being picky when demar could just leave for nothing

Not if DDR is set on going to Lakers AND getting paid. Even if the team "cleared" their books, Lakers wouldn't have the $$$ to make a competitive offer. DDR would have to be cool with full MLE type money if he really wanted to go there.

Outside of losing him for nothing to one of the few other teams with loads of capspace (e.g., Knicks), Spurs have all the leverage in any dealings with Demar. Hope they use it.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs would prefer nothing than other liabilities. Cap space can be used to facilitate trades and get a pick or two out of it considering most teams has no space

Spurs would likely either take back Kuzma and one of Harrell of KCP, all of whom are not liabilities or would have value as assets that can be flipped to contenders. And the Spurs would get whoever is picked 22nd out of it. Our cap space is irrelevant because we could still offer a max and the FA market sucks anyway this year. Spurs need to make trades to acquire assets for other trades. Preserving cap space for someone we probably won't even get is dumb

[spurspl]

dont understand all this kuzmas hate. Hes a decent player and theres a great chance he become better in another team (just like it was with ex lakers young players: randle, ingram). Moreover hes on a decent contract 13mil/yr and it seems he likes pop

[Leetonidas]

Not if DDR is set on going to Lakers AND getting paid. Even if the team "cleared" their books, Lakers wouldn't have the $$$ to make a competitive offer. DDR would have to be cool with full MLE type money if he really wanted to go there.

Outside of losing him for nothing to one of the few other teams with loads of capspace (e.g., Knicks), Spurs have all the leverage in any dealings with Demar. Hope they use it.

If the Spurs don't want to facilitate a trade to LA I guarantee he signs a large deal with NY. Spurs don't have any leverage man, come on :lol

[Leetonidas]

I must be in the minority here but I’d be really happy with Kuzma lol Lakers put there young players in bad positions

Exactly. I'm not a huge fan but he plays a position of need, fits our young guys timeline, and is not making ridiculous money. Spurs fans here are delusional

[CGD]

I must be in the minority here but I’d be really happy with Kuzma lol Lakers put there young players in bad positions

For DDR and their filler contracts, I'd need Kuzma + 22nd selection in this draft + their 2022 pick (it'll likely be pretty shitty anyway)

[4lifecowboy]

Positional need is extremely important. Jarrett Allen duplicates what you already get from Poeltl. I'd rather have Allen, but not at his price point, and getting Allen means you have to deal Poeltl. It doesn't make sense.

Dealing Poeltl shouldn't stop us from getting an impact player at the 5, and when I said positional need wasn't important I didn't mean we wouldn't have to sign or draft a 4, just that I believe that what Allen would bring is more valuable to the team as a whole than what Collins' would bring. Especially if it takes the max to get him. If Cleveland drafts Mobley, chances of it taking a max deal to get Allen drops significantly.

[CGD]

If the Spurs don't want to facilitate a trade to LA I guarantee he signs a large deal with NY. Spurs don't have any leverage man, come on :lol

No shit. But the whole point here -- at least why a poster linked to the reporting about LA so we can gossip about it-- is that he's signaling he wants to go to back to his home town . . .

[rjv]

If the Spurs don't want to facilitate a trade to LA I guarantee he signs a large deal with NY. Spurs don't have any leverage man, come on :lol

what i read into his comments is that if DDR is hell bent on playing in LA, the spurs would have leverage because the most the lakers could offer would come nowhere near what DDR would want. of course, LA doesn't really have much to offer. if DDR says 'i go to NY if you can't work something out'. then i guess he's not all that bent on playing for the lakers after all.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

For DDR and their filler contracts, I'd need Kuzma + 22nd selection in this draft + their 2022 pick (it'll likely be pretty shitty anyway)

They don't own their '22 pick, it's going to NO.

Besides, it'd be difficult for the Lakers to do a sign and trade and keep their FAs because they'll be hard capped.

[4lifecowboy]

For DDR and their filler contracts, I'd need Kuzma + 22nd selection in this draft + their 2022 pick (it'll likely be pretty shitty anyway)

Can we trade DDR before the draft?

[John B]

Looks like DeMar may have his eyes set on LA: https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2021-07-23/nba-free-agency-2021-kawhi-leonard-chris-paul-key

I’d love to S&T Demar with Lakers for Kuzma, THT and 22nd pick (Duarte). There’s an article that Lakers promised a pick to Duarte. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.silverscreenandroll.com/platform/amp/2021/7/21/22588039/2021-nba-draft-rumors-lakers-promise-chris-duarte

And send Kuzma and future pick to Hawks to get Collins.

And draft at #12 Sengun/Wagner (don’t think they’d draft Jalen)

[Leetonidas]

No shit. But the whole point here -- at least why a poster linked to the reporting about LA so we can gossip about it-- is that he's signaling he wants to go to back to his home town . . .

I get that but I'm saying the Spurs don't have leverage either way because if he wants to go to LA that badly, there is a limited amount of assets they could even offer us. So we either take their shit or risk him going to NY for nothing. Which to me means we really don't have leverage. I mean what can we hold over him and LA to increase the offer? They aren't giving us Davis. So like I said if he wants to go there were forced to take what they have otherwise he can just leave for nothing.

Hence why I'm laughing at ppl acting like we're good to take Kuzma or Harrell in return. What else can they really give us? Most of their immediate future picks are going to Nola

[CGD]

Can we trade DDR before the draft?

No. Which is why the Spurs couldnt formally get the 22nd pick to make the selection themselves on draft night. They'd have accept whoever the Lakers choose if they want that asset once free agency opens up.

[Larry O]

Yet Collins is a positional need why Allen isn't.
Collins is also a better player IMHO.

Re: Collins, well, here is a article from Real GM for those who are coveting Collins to the Spurs in FA:

The Atlanta Hawks have extended the qualifying offer to John Collins, which will make him a restricted free agent.
Collins will be one of the top free agents on the market after he was unable to agree to an extension with the Hawks before the start of the 20-21 season.
Collins' qualifying offer will be worth approximately $7.7 million.

Well, we've heard all the rumors that the Spurs are interested in Collins. Well, let's see if they will officially throw their hat into the ring & pursue him or not. Always thought that ATX is very interested in keeping him. But, we'll see! GSG!!!

[mo7888]

With the reports that DDR and Lowry want to unite in LA do any of you guys who keep up with cap rules know what that would look like? How much salary can either LA take on through S&T's etc.

[Kurgan]

With the reports that DDR and Lowry want to unite in LA do any of you guys who keep up with cap rules know what that would look like? How much salary can either LA take on through S&T's etc.

I guess DDR and Lowry have no pride, wanting to be Lebron's sidekicks after getting dickslapped by him in the playoffs for their entire tenure as Raptors.

[CGD]

They don't own their '22 pick, it's going to NO.

Besides, it'd be difficult for the Lakers to do a sign and trade and keep their FAs because they'll be hard capped.

I'm actually confused about what LAL picks NOLA owns. I see the reporting from the Davis trade that they got LAL's 2021 first rounder unless it falls within Top-8, and if it somehow did then it becomes a 2022 first that's unprotected. So is NOLA actually getting the LAL #22 in this draft?

[CGD]

With the reports that DDR and Lowry want to unite in LA do any of you guys who keep up with cap rules know what that would look like? How much salary can either LA take on through S&T's etc.

Not a cap person, but it feels like given their respective ages that the path forward would have to be DDR in S&T and Lowry for MLE.

[mo7888]

Not a cap person, but it feels like given their respective ages that the path forward would have to be DDR in S&T and Lowry for MLE.

I cam see hpw that could work...it's hard for me to see Lowry accepting that though..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm actually confused about what LAL picks NOLA owns. I see the reporting from the Davis trade that they got LAL's 2021 first rounder unless it falls within Top-8, and if it somehow did then it becomes a 2022 first that's unprotected. So is NOLA actually getting the LAL #22 in this draft?

Don't remember tbh, but I think NO have a pick swap this season, which they obviously won't execute, and then they own '22 and '24 or '25 ( NO can defer '24 to '25 ), as well as another pick swap in '23. Something like that anyway. Means Lakers can't trade first round picks until 2027.

[CGD]

Don't remember tbh, but I think NO have a pick swap this season, which they obviously won't execute, and then they own '22 and '24 or '25 ( NO can defer '24 to '25 ), as well as another pick swap in '23. Something like that anyway. Means Lakers can't trade first round picks until 2027.

OK, here is what Woj had:

PLAYERS
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart

PICKS
- #4 in 2019 (which they traded to ATL for 2 later picks in same draft)
- Top-8 protected pick in 2021 (becomes unprotected in 2022 if w/in top 8)
- unprotected first in 2024

SWAPS Rights
- 2023
- 2025

So all this to say, it looks like even if we wanted #22 in this draft it's not in play because its owed to NOLA. But, Lakers still have their 2022 pick, and their 2025 pick even if its encumbered (i.e., we just have to be OK with NOLA being able to swap if the Lakers have a worse record).


P.S. those swaps look impressive, but in reality they look meaningless. LOL

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So all this to say, it looks like even if we wanted #22 in this draft it's not in play because its owed to NOLA. But, Lakers still have their 2022 pick, and their 2025 pick even if its encumbered (i.e., we just have to be OK with NOLA being able to swap if the Lakers have a worse record).

P.S. those swaps look impressive, but in reality they look meaningless. LOL

No - just checked it - this year's pick is not top 8 protected, but 8-30, which is why Lakers get it and NO get their '22 first unprotected.

And you're right about pick swaps in general, but Boston got Brown due to a pick swap with Brooklyn, so you never know. Championship windows get closed quickly.

[R. DeMurre]

PICKS
- #4 in 2019 (which they traded to ATL for 2 later picks in same draft)
- Top-8 protected pick in 2021 (becomes unprotected in 2022 if w/in top 8)
- unprotected first in 2024

SWAPS Rights
- 2023
- 2025

So all this to say, it looks like even if we wanted #22 in this draft it's not in play because its owed to NOLA. But, Lakers still have their 2022 pick, and their 2025 pick even if its encumbered (i.e., we just have to be OK with NOLA being able to swap if the Lakers have a worse record).


P.S. those swaps look impressive, but in reality they look meaningless. LOL


I dunno-- in 2025, Lebron will be 41 & AD 32. Even if LeBron is still around, he's way past his prime by then, and with AD's injury history who knows where he's at. L.A.'s 2025 pick could be a really good one to swap.

[CGD]

No - just checked it - this year's pick is not top 8 protected, but 8-30, which is why Lakers get it and NO get their '22 first unprotected.

And you're right about pick swaps in general, but Boston got Brown due to a pick swap with Brooklyn, so you never know. Championship windows get closed quickly.

I see, that makes sense re 2021 pick

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan/status/1418736410035560453



Does that mean something ?
(https://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan/status/1418736410035560453)

[John B]

https://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan/status/1418736410035560453



Does that mean something ?
(https://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan/status/1418736410035560453)

He’s checking porno? :lol

[lmbebo]

https://twitter.com/DejounteMurray/status/1418751953346207747

[SAGirl]

https://twitter.com/DejounteMurray/status/1418751953346207747
Dejounte is such a drama… Could be some cat fishing he’s complaining about? Someone sleepin around with other girlfriends? Tony Parker redux?

[Dejounte]

The day he does this diva shit AND unfollows the Spurs is when it’s actually happening. Probably more loyalty bullshit with friends or something like that.

[Teamduncan21]

https://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan/status/1418736410035560453



Does that mean something ?
(https://twitter.com/DeMar_DeRozan/status/1418736410035560453)

He is reading spurstalk. Esp the gtfo thread

[Degoat]

It’s going to be funny when the spurs sign Demar to a new deal at the start of free agency lmao

[HankChinaski]

It’s going to be funny when the spurs sign Demar to a new deal at the start of free agency lmao

You say funny, but internally a single dramatic tear will be shed. THEN COMES THE RAGE!

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/vndsgn/status/1419001555861266444

[Kurik]

https://twitter.com/vndsgn/status/1419001555861266444

I love Mills, one of my favorite Spurs role players of all time but I hope this happens. Wouldn’t mind seeing Mills be a menace to the east for half a season.

[Degoat]

That NBASupes guy on the hawks website mentioned that the spurs are showing interest in John Collins for what’s it’s worth

[ace3g]

Nuggets forward JaMychal Green (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenja01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-) is declining the player option on his contract and entering unrestricted free agency this summer, per Shams Charania of The Athletic (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1418682382392209411).

[ace3g]

Toronto, for example, could offer a package centered on the No. 4 selection and Pascal Siakam, who's considered available for trade by sources around the league. The Raptors have been categorized as one of the most active teams in predraft trade chatter, exploring all avenues from swapping their pick in a deal for an All-Star such as Beal or Damian Lillard (http://bleacherreport.com/damian-lillard) to trading back and recouping more draft capital to embrace a post-Kyle Lowry rebuild.
Golden State's best offer for Beal would include the Nos. 7 and 14 picks in this draft. New Orleans, owning the 10th selection, has long been linked as an interested Beal suitor as well.



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946317-sources-bradley-beal-considering-trade-request-before-nba-draft

[objective]

That NBASupes guy on the hawks website mentioned that the spurs are showing interest in John Collins for what’s it’s worth

Wasn't he the supposed insider who spent all season saying the Spurs weren't interested? Gotta hedge to keep that insider status, now there's no way he can be wrong

[mo7888]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946317-sources-bradley-beal-considering-trade-request-before-nba-draft

IF he does....that'll be the spark that sets the league on fire heading into the draft....they'll be alot of moves from alot of teams.

[BackHome]

Golden State is on crack if they think they getting Beal with the Just the 7th and 14th pick.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't get why people think Golden State would be interested in Beal. I don't think a three guard line up of Curry/Beal/Klay makes much sense. If anything, they need an Iguodala replacement or a Big... I can't see them adding an expensive 6'3" guy who's not much of a defender.

[exstatic]

Golden State is on crack if they think they getting Beal with the Just the 7th and 14th pick.

They’d have to send Wiggins, too, to balance salary. Another reason it won work.

[TD 21]

I don't get why people think Golden State would be interested in Beal. I don't think a three guard line up of Curry/Beal/Klay makes much sense. If anything, they need an Iguodala replacement or a Big... I can't see them adding an expensive 6'3" guy who's not much of a defender.

They will be because he's probably the best pure talent among (eventually) attainable (for them) players.

Yeah, the defensive fit isn't ideal, but it's almost impossible to check every box.

[R. DeMurre]

They will be because he's probably the best pure talent among (eventually) attainable (for them) players.

Yeah, the defensive fit isn't ideal, but it's almost impossible to check every box.

I just don't think it works. Beal needs too many shots, and he's not as efficient as Steph or Klay. To me, even a guy like Batum is a better fit.

Man, I really thought Golden State was going to buck the experts' predictions and take Haliburton last year. I'm sure they wish they had now.

[TD 21]

I just don't think it works. Beal needs too many shots, and he's not as efficient as Steph or Klay. To me, even a guy like Batum is a better fit.

Man, I really thought Golden State was going to buck the experts' predictions and take Haliburton last year. I'm sure they wish they had now.

He'd obviously adjust and probably be more efficient reverting to a secondary role. This isn't the '15-'19 Warriors; the sheer talent/firepower differential makes Beal the superior fit.

Should have went with Ball instead.

[CGD]

With the Bledsoe/10 rumors, it makes me wonder if there isn’t a bigger deal for Ingram in there to be had. The Zion v Ingram stuff is really at heart of keeping Zion happy.

Something like they keep 10, we eat the Bledsoe $$, send 12, Murray and some other smaller assets, for Ingram.

[mo7888]

With the Bledsoe/10 rumors, it makes me wonder if there isn’t a bigger deal for Ingram in there to be had. The Zion v Ingram stuff is really at heart of keeping Zion happy.

Something like they keep 10, we eat the Bledsoe $$, send 12, Murray and some other smaller assets, for Ingram.

I'm not sure what it would look like...nor am I sure the Spurs would want Ingram or if they'd want what we have but, I do agree that there's a deal to be made there for somebody. I think they would move him in certain scenarios.

[R. DeMurre]

With the Bledsoe/10 rumors, it makes me wonder if there isn’t a bigger deal for Ingram in there to be had. The Zion v Ingram stuff is really at heart of keeping Zion happy.

Something like they keep 10, we eat the Bledsoe $$, send 12, Murray and some other smaller assets, for Ingram.

But the whole narrative with New Orleans is they want to improve now in order to keep Zion happy... So trading a 23 yr old Ingram who's putting up 24/5/5 in order to get Murray and another pick would seem counter to that, unless maybe they thought a Lowry/Murray back court would be an overall improvement? I can't see it happening.

[mo7888]

But the whole narrative with New Orleans is they want to improve now in order to keep Zion happy... So trading a 23 yr old Ingram who's putting up 24/5/5 in order to get Murray and another pick would seem counter to that, unless maybe they thought a Lowry/Murray back court would be an overall improvement? I can't see it happening.

Agreed, I think if they move Ingram it's for a much bigger fish than we have to offer..

[CGD]

But the whole narrative with New Orleans is they want to improve now in order to keep Zion happy... So trading a 23 yr old Ingram who's putting up 24/5/5 in order to get Murray and another pick would seem counter to that, unless maybe they thought a Lowry/Murray back court would be an overall improvement? I can't see it happening.

Yeah, I’m not sure what NOLA would want per se. Just combining a few strands: Bledsoe salary dump; narrative around Ingram getting in Zions way; Spurs’ PG logjam, etc.

I also don’t know how Spurs would see Ingram, but you can see some appeal to NOLA:

- net another good pick
- keep your own pick
- dump Bledsoe
- can let Adams go & replace with cheaper/better Jakob
- pick up a solid cost controlled PG

[ace3g]

The Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings have discussed a trade centered on Buddy Hield for Kyle Kuzma, sources tell The Athletic. The Lakers are seeking an upgrade in the backcourt and have also been linked to free agents Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan and Spencer Dinwiddie.
The Kings previously had interest in Kuzma via trade. Kuzma signed a three-year, $40 million extension with the Lakers before the 20-21 offseason.
The Kings signed Hield to a four-year, $86 million extension in 2019.

Shams Charania/The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/2727488/2021/07/25/bradley-beal-mulling-future-with-wizards-lakers-pursue-third-playmaker-plus-more-nba-draft-and-trade-talk/?source=twitterhq)

[CGD]

The Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings have discussed a trade centered on Buddy Hield for Kyle Kuzma, sources tell The Athletic. The Lakers are seeking an upgrade in the backcourt and have also been linked to free agents Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan and Spencer Dinwiddie.
The Kings previously had interest in Kuzma via trade. Kuzma signed a three-year, $40 million extension with the Lakers before the 20-21 offseason.
The Kings signed Hield to a four-year, $86 million extension in 2019.

Shams Charania/The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/2727488/2021/07/25/bradley-beal-mulling-future-with-wizards-lakers-pursue-third-playmaker-plus-more-nba-draft-and-trade-talk/?source=twitterhq)

Was not tracking the Kuzma extension. So starting salary in the 12-14M range, which is helpful context for Demar S&T speculation.

So if DDR is willing to in fact take lower $$ and start his new deal around 16M, Lakers can send Marc Gasol with Kuz and 22 (no need to tack on KCP or Harrel)

[Leetonidas]

Latest from Woj saying Nephew isn't going anywhere but might miss the entire next season :lmao

[PhantomDashCam]

Atlanta are trying to get a higher pick in this draft, dangling Cam Reddish supposedly as bait.
NO are trying to get a veteran to help them move forward while shedding Bledsoe's salary.
Pure hypothetical:

3 team trade -

ATL receives D.White, 12th pick
NO receives B.Bogdonavic
SAS receives Bledsoe, Reddish, 10th and 20th picks

Haven't been able to run the numbers officially yet (trade machines down) but should work.
Thoughts?

[mo7888]

Atlanta are trying to get a higher pick in this draft, dangling Cam Reddish supposedly as bait.
NO are trying to get a veteran to help them move forward while shedding Bledsoe's salary.
Pure hypothetical:

3 team trade -

ATL receives D.White, 12th pick
NO receives B.Bogdonavic
SAS receives Bledsoe, Reddish, 10th and 20th picks

Haven't been able to run the numbers officially yet (trade machines down) but should work.
Thoughts?

It's not awful... I think it would depend on how much Atl likes DW..

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Atlanta are trying to get a higher pick in this draft, dangling Cam Reddish supposedly as bait.
NO are trying to get a veteran to help them move forward while shedding Bledsoe's salary.
Pure hypothetical:

3 team trade -

ATL receives D.White, 12th pick
NO receives B.Bogdonavic
SAS receives Bledsoe, Reddish, 10th and 20th picks

Haven't been able to run the numbers officially yet (trade machines down) but should work.
Thoughts?

This will be a nice trade for Spurs.

[CGD]

Atlanta are trying to get a higher pick in this draft, dangling Cam Reddish supposedly as bait.
NO are trying to get a veteran to help them move forward while shedding Bledsoe's salary.
Pure hypothetical:

3 team trade -

ATL receives D.White, 12th pick
NO receives B.Bogdonavic
SAS receives Bledsoe, Reddish, 10th and 20th picks

Haven't been able to run the numbers officially yet (trade machines down) but should work.
Thoughts?

ATL giving up Bogdanobich, Reddish, and 20. They may need a little more, but maybe not much more

[TheCerebral1]

Atlanta are trying to get a higher pick in this draft, dangling Cam Reddish supposedly as bait.
NO are trying to get a veteran to help them move forward while shedding Bledsoe's salary.
Pure hypothetical:

3 team trade -

ATL receives D.White, 12th pick
NO receives B.Bogdonavic
SAS receives Bledsoe, Reddish, 10th and 20th picks

Haven't been able to run the numbers officially yet (trade machines down) but should work.
Thoughts?

I'm okay with this, and then we can immediately flip Bledsoe for a second round pick.

[TheCerebral1]

The Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings have discussed a trade centered on Buddy Hield for Kyle Kuzma, sources tell The Athletic. The Lakers are seeking an upgrade in the backcourt and have also been linked to free agents Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan and Spencer Dinwiddie.
The Kings previously had interest in Kuzma via trade. Kuzma signed a three-year, $40 million extension with the Lakers before the 20-21 offseason.
The Kings signed Hield to a four-year, $86 million extension in 2019.

Shams Charania/The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/2727488/2021/07/25/bradley-beal-mulling-future-with-wizards-lakers-pursue-third-playmaker-plus-more-nba-draft-and-trade-talk/?source=twitterhq)

Two vastly overrated basketball players traded for each other, it makes sense.

[Mr. Body]

I kinda thought Buddy Hield was already on the Lakers.

Kuzma is another of those guys Lakers fans built up beyond reason. Reason why dud Brandon Ingram got an All-Star berth for some fucking reason. Only guy who they didn't build up was Randle, who is the best of all of them.

[TheCerebral1]

For DDR and their filler contracts, I'd need Kuzma + 22nd selection in this draft + their 2022 pick (it'll likely be pretty shitty anyway)

Why do Spurs fans, want a no talent dunker, who cannot defend, and has gradually gotten worse since his rookie season. Not to mention, Hollywood has gotten to his head. He's a terrible basketball player.

[exstatic]

I'm okay with this, and then we can immediately flip Bledsoe for a second round pick.

Bledsoe has no positive value, which is why NO must attach a lottery pick. If we get Bledsoe, we’re stuck with him for the season.

[Dennis the Menace]

Bledsoe sucks

[offset formation]

He gone


https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1419656694506926086?s=19https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1419656694506926086?s=19https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1419656694506926086?s=19

[CGD]

The Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings have discussed a trade centered on Buddy Hield for Kyle Kuzma, sources tell The Athletic. The Lakers are seeking an upgrade in the backcourt and have also been linked to free agents Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan and Spencer Dinwiddie.
The Kings previously had interest in Kuzma via trade. Kuzma signed a three-year, $40 million extension with the Lakers before the 20-21 offseason.
The Kings signed Hield to a four-year, $86 million extension in 2019.

Shams Charania/The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/2727488/2021/07/25/bradley-beal-mulling-future-with-wizards-lakers-pursue-third-playmaker-plus-more-nba-draft-and-trade-talk/?source=twitterhq)

Three way trade:

SAC-- Kuzma
LAL -- DDR (S&T ~15M)
SAS -- Bagley + 22

Bagley, former #2 pick, only has one year left on deal & could be motivated to earn next deal. Probably better than Kuz/22.

I suppose Spurs could also take on Hield, but not sure what the rules are about absorbing player into capspace if at S&T is involved.

[lmbebo]

Three way trade:

SAC-- Kuzma
LAL -- DDR (S&T ~15M)
SAS -- Bagley + 22

Bagley, former #2 pick, only has one year left on deal & could be motivated to earn next deal. Probably better than Kuz/22.

I suppose Spurs could also take on Hield, but not sure what the rules are about absorbing player into capspace if at S&T is involved.


I'd do that trade.

[mo7888]

Three way trade:

SAC-- Kuzma
LAL -- DDR (S&T ~15M)
SAS -- Bagley + 22

Bagley, former #2 pick, only has one year left on deal & could be motivated to earn next deal. Probably better than Kuz/22.

I suppose Spurs could also take on Hield, but not sure what the rules are about absorbing player into capspace if at S&T is involved.

I'd do that deal too if it was on the table. To me, Bagley has a high ceiling if he could act right (and if he doesn't then waive his ass)... that's a good risk/reward setup to me.

[Kurik]

Three way trade:

SAC-- Kuzma
LAL -- DDR (S&T ~15M)
SAS -- Bagley + 22

Bagley, former #2 pick, only has one year left on deal & could be motivated to earn next deal. Probably better than Kuz/22.

I suppose Spurs could also take on Hield, but not sure what the rules are about absorbing player into capspace if at S&T is involved.

Great trade, 1 year gamble on Bagley would be 100x better than Kuzma.

[exstatic]

Bagley has flatlined. His numbers are virtually unchanged for his 1st 3 seasons, and his advanced numbers stink like Limburger cheese left out. He also has that family drama, with his father all over Twitter trashing the Kings. That being said, I’d take him over Kuzma, because he’d be easier to get rid of. After next year, just don’t give him a year 5 QO. Problem solved.

[lmbebo]

Bagley has flatlined. His numbers are virtually unchanged for his 1st 3 seasons, and his advanced numbers stink like Limburger cheese left out. He also has that family drama, with his father all over Twitter trashing the Kings. That being said, I’d take him over Kuzma, because he’d be easier to get rid of. After next year, just don’t give him a year 5 QO. Problem solved.

Its a 1 year trial. See if there is a real player there or not in a position of need. His upside is better than Kuzma. Its worth the 1 year trial, especially if it costs us a player who is leaving anyways...

[exstatic]

Its a 1 year trial. See if there is a real player there or not in a position of need. His upside is better than Kuzma. Its worth the 1 year trial, especially if it costs us a player who is leaving anyways...

Did you not read to the end? I said I’d take him over Kuzma.

[Cardinal]

I think the Kings only do that trade if they can also get rid of Hield - and as others have said, not sure if the Spurs would be able to absorb Hield in a S&T. Obviously to get back Bagley + 22 is fantastic from the Spurs perspective and better than Kuzma + 22.

[Teamduncan21]

We probably have to absorb heild in some way. Cause from kings perspective. They will be trading Bagley for kuzma. While they do like kuzma. Seems not that much gain to motivate them. Probably need a few more parts from Lakers to cover heilds contract

[exstatic]

We probably have to absorb heild in some way. Cause from kings perspective. They will be trading Bagley for kuzma. While they do like kuzma. Seems not that much gain to motivate them. Probably need a few more parts from Lakers to cover heilds contract

If they like Kuzma, it’s a win. They’ve been trying to dump Bagley since the deadline. If they want to get rid of Hield, it will probably cost them #9, either in this stride, or a standalone different trade.

[mo7888]

If they like Kuzma, it’s a win. They’ve been trying to dump Bagley since the deadline. If they want to get rid of Hield, it will probably cost them #9, either in this stride, or a standalone different trade.

That would be interesting... getting Bagley, Hield, #9, and #22 to go along with our #12 . That gives us alot of options...packaging picks with players..or moving a couple of players in stand alone deals to provide balance. I'm not saying it's my preferred scenario but, it's better than some I've seen out forth.

[TheCerebral1]

Three way trade:

SAC-- Kuzma
LAL -- DDR (S&T ~15M)
SAS -- Bagley + 22

Bagley, former #2 pick, only has one year left on deal & could be motivated to earn next deal. Probably better than Kuz/22.

I suppose Spurs could also take on Hield, but not sure what the rules are about absorbing player into capspace if at S&T is involved.

Bagley cannot defend a beach ball. He's literally useless. The pick would be nice, but fuck trading for name value former high picks. Marvin Bagley is a scrub. Draft and develop. Keep Murray, do not trade for Ben Simmons. Buddy Hield is yet another piece of trash player. I'd rather let DDR walk, than take on Heild's trash contract and bring over a big who is soft, and cannot defend.

[Mugen]

Bagley cannot defend a beach ball. He's literally useless. The pick would be nice, but fuck trading for name value former high picks. Marvin Bagley is a scrub. Draft and develop. Keep Murray, do not trade for Ben Simmons. Buddy Hield is yet another piece of trash player. I'd rather let DDR walk, than take on Heild's trash contract and bring over a big who is soft, and cannot defend.

Sounds like a perfect fit in the old man's coaching scheme :lol

[KobesAchilles]

What happened to Hield? One second he was this up and coming player that had a reliable 3 ball and the next he is this trash player that nobody wants? I know he sucks on defense, almost all guards do, but did the Kings screw him up that badly? Can he be fixed?

[mo7888]

What happened to Hield? One second he was this up and coming player that had a reliable 3 ball and the next he is this trash player that nobody wants? I know he sucks on defense, almost all guards do, but did the Kings screw him up that badly? Can he be fixed?

He hits 40% from 3...but not much else....the reason he's hard to trade is his contract.... I think you can hide some of his defensive shortcomings myself... don't get me wrong, I wouldn't give up much to get him but I'd consider it with the proper sweetener

[objective]

Sounds like a perfect fit in the old man's coaching scheme :lol

It's true.

The Spurs gave Joffrey a 2 year deal with a player option, and he turned out to be statistically the worst rim protecting big man since the ABA merger.

Bagley makes a lot of sense in that way.

[Teamduncan21]

He hits 40% from 3...but not much else....the reason he's hard to trade is his contract.... I think you can hide some of his defensive shortcomings myself... don't get me wrong, I wouldn't give up much to get him but I'd consider it with the proper sweetener

Ahh like a better more expensive version of Bryn forbes

[SPURt]

Ahh like a better more expensive version of Bryn forbes
I don’t know… that’s NBA CHAMPION Bryn Forbes we’re talking about here

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




Portland Trail Blazers forward Derrick Jones Jr. will pick up his $9.7 million player option for the 2021-22 season, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
8:47pm · 26 Jul 2021 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1419836936206835720) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[KobesAchilles]

Ahh like a better more expensive version of Bryn forbes
That was my immediate reaction too :lol
But he did average almost 4 assists a game so he can handle the ball a bit apparently. He’s also 6’4 so he is bigger than Forbes. Would need to consult with a Kings fan to know more about him but I don’t know anybody whose self esteem is that low.

[The Truth #6]

I didn’t put any stock in somehow trading DDR to LA. But with him doing interviews with Shannon Sharpe about how he’d love to play there, and then reports that he’d play for the Clippers too, I don’t know, either he takes the MLE ir there’s an opportunity here. The Lakers options look like shit, unfortunately. But the Clippers? There kind of gutted too, right? Shamet, Patrick Beverly. Is their roster even worse?

Like, there’s the potential for this media exposure to force the hand of either team. SA doesn’t give a shit about media hype but LA is unable to ignore it, it’s part of the tragic DNA of that city. If both teams weren’t gutted, I’d say we could finally be in a position to win a trade. Instead, it’s more likely the ironic last chapter of the Kawhi Apocalypse — DDR taking a paycut to play with Nephew. Ugh.

[Uriel]

If we could sign and trade DeRozan for Kuzma, Horton-Tucker, and a first (Duarte), I’d do it. Then draft Sengun, nab John Collins in free agency, get rid of the veterans, and it will have been a good offseason.

PG: Murray / Jones
SG: White / Walker / Duarte
SF: Johnson / Horton-Tucker / Vassell
PF: Collins / Kuzma / Samanic
C: Poeltl / Eubanks / Sengun

[tbdog]

It'll likely need to include a third team unless Kuzma is seen as a Gay replacement.

[Uriel]

John Collins looks good in a Spurs jersey.

https://scontent.fmnl3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/217957548_151228320363808_1563261350455235692_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_eui2=AeGCDwcRI-nZuf7-5NeHj3k6DxjzrmfiIfkPGPOuZ-Ih-a_bz0zp-nLGZ6dRNPQMnV4&_nc_ohc=C41k6or1bqkAX9O5_TZ&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl3-2.fna&oh=83ab47e121d4af5535c781027afe8aa4&oe=612696DB

[Ice009]

Are the Spurs actually going to go after Collins or is it just fans here that are wanting him? I haven't been keeping up with the off-season since the season ended.

[PrimeMinister]

Are the Spurs actually going to go after Collins or is it just fans here that are wanting him? I haven't been keeping up with the off-season since the season ended.

Team with most cap space will probably pursue the best free agent available at a position of need and fans will talk about it

[SAGirl]

If we could sign and trade DeRozan for Kuzma, Horton-Tucker, and a first (Duarte), I’d do it. Then draft Sengun, nab John Collins in free agency, get rid of the veterans, and it will have been a good offseason.

PG: Murray / Jones
SG: White / Walker / Duarte
SF: Johnson / Horton-Tucker / Vassell
PF: Collins / Kuzma / Samanic
C: Poeltl / Eubanks / Sengun
Duarte is rumored to be taken by GSW at 14. He has risen and even if GSW doesn't take him, he's not lasting to 22. But there could be other played there are interesting, maybe Murphy 3, possibly someone else who is still interesting.

[Dejounte]

Duarte is rumored to be taken by GSW at 14. He has risen and even if GSW doesn't take him, he's not lasting to 22. But there could be other played there are interesting, maybe Murphy 3, possibly someone else who is still interesting.

this is a case where if the Spurs want a player badly enough, they will take him much to the disappointment of fans’ perceived value of what a #12 pick should look like. Let’s see what they do

[MoSpur02]

Per Woj, Brynn Forbes is a FA

[John B]

Per Woj, Brynn Forbes is a FA
Now that’s breaking news

[Dex]

Per Woj, Brynn Forbes is a FA

:pop: He can bring us some championship experience.

[MoSpur02]

:pop: He can bring us some championship experience.

:lol

[R. DeMurre]

Duarte is rumored to be taken by GSW at 14. He has risen and even if GSW doesn't take him, he's not lasting to 22. But there could be other played there are interesting, maybe Murphy 3, possibly someone else who is still interesting.

I'm not liking the Laker trade much and find it really unlikely they'd include Horton-Tucker, but I suppose a deal contingent on a certain list of guys still being available when it came time for them to pick could work.
You know, even I as I write this, I'm changing my mind:lol... looking at the list of guys mocked 22 through 32, it seems like there'd have to be one the scouting department considers intriguing, even if it's not a position of need. There must be a lot of sleepless GMs right about now in the NBA! Like 30, to be exact!

[EasyMoney]

https://twitter.com/RealQuintonMayo/status/1420163257495658496?s=19

Well, well, well...

[Dejounte]

$20 mil is what I’ve said all along. I wouldn’t mind him as a Spur at that dollar amount. No matter how much I don’t like his play. That being said, I know he’s gone and definitely not to the Wizards.

i mean, if it’s real then it shows how much the Spurs want to move on from him.

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/RealQuintonMayo/status/1420163257495658496?s=19

Well, well, well...

Interesting indeed, for the team and the price tag intel.

But how would the money work for WAS? I doubt they’re putting Deni, Rui, or Bryant In play. Maybe they’re trading Beal to Warriors after all ….

[mo7888]

Interesting indeed, for the team and the price tag intel.

But how would the money work for WAS? I doubt they’re putting Deni, Rui, or Bryant In play. Maybe they’re trading Beal to Warriors after all ….

Maybe 3 team sending RW to the lakers? Also could probably move bertans and one of the young guys to make the numbers work..

[CGD]

Maybe 3 team sending RW to the lakers? Also could probably move bertans and one of the young guys to make the numbers work..

I love Bert, but not at his new deal. If they want to get off that thing I’d want Rui and Deni, but that seems like a nonstarter for WAS.

[mo7888]

I love Bert, but not at his new deal. If they want to get off that thing I’d want Rui and Deni, but that seems like a nonstarter for WAS.

It's too much for him but, Bertans, Deni(supposedly we liked him last year), and a future 1st is probably acceptable to our FO. You could probably use the 1st to jettison Bertans if needed.

[CGD]

It's too much for him but, Bertans, Deni(supposedly we liked him last year), and a future 1st is probably acceptable to our FO. You could probably use the 1st to jettison Bertans if needed.

Yeah, that appeals. I suppose if they take someone Spurs liked with 15 (of course uncoordinated) that could be another option.

[BackHome]

Interesting indeed, for the team and the price tag intel.

But how would the money work for WAS? I doubt they’re putting Deni, Rui, or Bryant In play. Maybe they’re trading Beal to Warriors after all ….

If they trying to do this then they definitely not looking at trading Beal - They probably trying to add some guys to make a major push in the playoffs and try to keep Beal Happy. Teams can no longer just suck and keep there star they will now just get up and leave if management is not serious about winning.

I remember early this season the owner went out and said before the season started that he Expected/Demanded his team move into the Playoffs or else basically. Lol and behold they had a great season it's amazing when someone lights a FIRE under your ass what you can achieve

[NASpurs]

1420206015627268098

[Dejounte]

1420206015627268098

this would be a fantastic signing by the Spurs…

[Degoat]

I could see the spurs offering Spencer a nice deal especially with Demar leaving, he has a house in SA right? Lol

[NASpurs]

this would be a fantastic signing by the Spurs…

Brian Wright connection and Sean Marks connection... oh shit...

It's happening (:lol j/k)

[CGD]

If they trying to do this then they definitely not looking at trading Beal - They probably trying to add some guys to make a major push in the playoffs and try to keep Beal Happy. Teams can no longer just suck and keep there star they will now just get up and leave if management is not serious about winning.

I remember early this season the owner went out and said before the season started that he Expected/Demanded his team move into the Playoffs or else basically. Lol and behold they had a great season it's amazing when someone lights a FIRE under your ass what you can achieve

I hope this rumor has legs. Im not a fan of taking on Berts deal, but picking up Deni to fill a position of need and another future asset is very enticing.

Still have the 12th and capspace for other impact players.

[objective]

No fan of Dinwiddie, at all

Busted ACL, 28 years old, can't shoot, cannibalizes minutes from White and Murray. Can't play up a spot

It's the kind of signing a bad front office would make, like a DeMarre Carroll move

[Dejounte]

I’d like the Spurs to commit to full on small ball just for the hell of it…

keep Keldon at 4

Sign Dinwiddie

Draft Duarte

fuck, the amount of 3s that are going to fly with those two plus White, Vassell…

that would be a scary offense.

[pad300]

https://twitter.com/RealQuintonMayo/status/1420163257495658496?s=19

Well, well, well...

Not to sure I believe the $ numbers for DDR. 4 years at $23 is $96M. Exstatic says he turned down a fill in the blank 2 years from us (~$65M). I think he'll be looking for more.

[daslicer]

I’d like the Spurs to commit to full on small ball just for the hell of it…

keep Keldon at 4

Sign Dinwiddie

Draft Duarte

fuck, the amount of 3s that are going to fly with those two plus White, Vassell…

that would be a scary offense.

Yes we can then see the Spurs lose high scoring games that are 180-140 instead of seeing the normal loss of 140-120.

[Mr. Body]

I liked Dinwiddie with that chippy, tough Nets team pre-prima donnas. He's not a good fit for the Spurs and not just because he's be expensive.

[lmbebo]

I could see the spurs offering Spencer a nice deal especially with Demar leaving, he has a house in SA right? Lol

Yes, he has a house 2 mins away from me. Looks vacant often though.

[MoSpur02]

Dinwiddie would be a risk and would take minutes away from White I believe.

[mo7888]

Dinwiddie would be a risk and would take minutes away from White I believe.

I don't see how you take Dinwiddie and keep both DJ and White. If we go that direction, and I hope we don't if it takes $25M/per as reported, then one of those others needs to be moved for assets.